Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Starting With a Bang

Episode Date: October 12, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee get right into the good, the bad and the ugly of the Leafs' comeback victory over the Canadiens to open the season. They discuss Auston Matthews putting on a show, an evaluation of the new additions to the lineup, some defensive miscues and early concerns for Ilya Samsonov. Then, a discussion of the Leafs' new goal song, Matthews on the penalty kill and encouraging signs that Matthew Knies is becoming a difference-maker.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

welcome in to the real kipper and born show we are live on sports at 590 sports nets 360 and sports net plus from four to six eastern i'm nick kiprios alongside Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, and Jen Rolnick. The Toronto Maple Leafs, do we say, outlast the Montreal Canadiens in a 6-5 shootout win last night at Scotiabank Arena. And I always refer to a game like that as an old spaghetti western with clint eastwood you know the title of that movie uh good bad and ugly thank you okay i did good there good for me does it not sum up a little bit of last night there was a whole bunch of all those things sheldon keith yeah brad Tree Living and of course Brendan Shanahan leading the charge here I think they saw a little bit of everything uh out of the Leafs yeah you know how I know we're

comfortable in our new studio is that you and I have not talked about the hockey game yet today like at all like this is exciting okay I can't wait to hear your full thoughts on it uh yes often I come in and I'm like save it stop it you're telling me too much save it for the air um yeah good bad and the ugly you know i'll just generalize for myself i thought a great start for the leafs and i know that that is a dangerous thing to say when you give up five goals to a team that finished 28th last year when you have to score twice with the goalie pulled to get it to overtime. I thought it was a great opening game. I was committed to saying that even if they lost

that game 5-3 last night. Wow, Sammy. I got a lot of things last night and I don't want to overanalyze. Well, wow. We should. That's what we do. That's the job. Because I thought there was nerves involved. With the hockey club. Yes's the job. Because I thought there was nerves involved.

With the hockey club. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I thought they were a little, maybe opening jitters, whatever. But I did not have great start. Great start. Out of last night.

I'll let you go, Sammy. Well, I just really enjoyed it. From a fan's perspective. Okay. So, I mean. It was an electric. I just really enjoyed it. From a fan's perspective, it was an electric. What do you want to hear, Elliot? It was the first game of the season. They always play a bizarro game against the Habs. Every year, first game, they always almost lose or do lose to the Habs. It's always a crazy game in the first one.

And they just have really good players that score goals a lot. You're pulling an Elliot Friedman last night on the telecast. His big message was that we're entertainers. This was very entertaining. It was for me and for hockey fans, but maybe not for Sheldon. That's not what we'll do today. Maybe not for Sheldon. Maybe not for Brad Treleving who was looking.

Did you see the clip when Reeves came out and he, having a jovial laugh after he did the flex? Yeah. He's having a good time. He's loving himself. I love it. Okay, so let's... We're going to break it down. And we should. To the Clint Eastwood Spaghetti Western.

Yeah. Let's start with the good here. I want you to go first, and I'll give you my good, and then we'll kind of just progress from there. If I can use some hyperbole here so we can fight about it. John Klingberg was basically new and improved Kale McCarr last night. He was unbelievable.

I couldn't believe how good John Klingberg was last night. I'm ready to fight about this. I thought he had an excellent debut. The fourth line, I thought Reeves was awesome and Gregor was excellent. I just thought there was a lot to like. I thought Nylander looked good.

I thought that, you know, Matthews gets going. Big, big first night. Listen, I got stuff in the other category too. All right. But I liked a lot of what I saw last night. Austin Matthews, number one story. Obviously, I think. Like, you know, first uh 300 do you see this

list i put in the lineup players to reach 300 goals in 500 or less games wayne gretzky mike bossy mary lemieux red hall yari curry timu solani pavel beret alex ovechkin maurice richard tim kerr luke robitaille and now austin Austin Matthews. That is some company. By the way, wait until Tim Kerr. Yeah, he has a wild hockey DB page. I went and looked at it last night. It's pretty crazy. But, I mean, that's amazing. That's a great sign that Austin comes out,

is the highest paid player in the game this summer, and carried the team last night. When they needed a big goal, when the game was still within reach, albeit looking grim at five, three boys with four and a half minutes. He finds a way to get the crowd excited for for a fun finish. Yeah. You know, last year, Matthews didn't get his third goal until game 10, which was October 30th of last season. So he had scored three goals all of October last year. And he still scored 40. Yeah.

So just to get that off his back, to get off to a positive start, is a good sign for the Leafs and for him personally. Will we ever know definitively if the lack of progress last year, if that's what we want to call a 40 goal uh goal season had a lot to do with him not feeling a hundred percent or the wrist or and and did he now put himself back into that yes i i'm gonna be i'm gonna be 50 and 60 now. Yeah. This is my range. I mean, you know, McDavid gets 64 last year. I got to believe that Matthews wants to be in that conversation. Best goal scorers, Rocket Richard trophy.

Tough to not see him there at the end of the year if he stays healthy this year. Yeah. Is it time to fire up the, is Matthews as good as DeVay? I don't know. I haven't fired that up yet. But the year he scored 60, what did he play? 75, 74 games or something so you know there's a number there for him that's higher he he looked like he he had a a message to send last night i agree

in ot2 he was slicing and dicing looking for four he he he there's when he's like that yeah there might not be anyone better at putting the puck in the net yeah that uh the second goal is maybe the most the one that'll get the least respect but it's probably the biggest goal scorer goal like the just the sense of the goal line just whip it yeah that was that goal so bad so bad on jake allen right but you put the goalie in that spot right you're like you know you make him answer the questions and he's sleeping on it. Who shoots from there?

Yeah. People who score a lot. If we expand, I thought for the most part, it was kind of quiet for Austin and Mitch Marner and Bertuzzi to start the game, but a couple of bad penalties by Montrealreal late in the game got the power play goal started it and much better finish here yeah bertuzzi doesn't score but played a big part in creating some energy yeah he made that great play him and matthews had that give and go

right in front where he made a nice play and you know we all love that he took a swing at someone you know that was fun to see them get involved in some of that sort of stuff when's the last time a toronto maple leaf clearly way late skates in and just spears the goalie in the nether regions and you liked it oh my god i loved it it's just that is, there's been no guy on the team. I'm thrilled. Bunting, you can talk about that did that last year. And, like, I guess he was kind of that type of guy. But, like, for him to just go in there, he's like,

I'm going to do something that's going to piss everybody on the ice off. Knowingly. And you know who the first guy that jumps in the scrum is? Matthews. Yeah. He's right there on top of somebody when they're all scrumming up. Gio comes flying in like a wrestler. he does i loved it yeah uh we need go ahead i said we need to get to the park because you're laughing at me for praising this team we need to get to the stuff

you didn't like no okay we will listen still some positives here that i want to touch and honorable mention to ryan reeves because he's a little sleepy the game yeah and then he goes out there and he he puts uh the fans on notice that uh if it is sleepy i can wake it up with a big hit he drilled a couple players yeah then the the jack i fight yeah and you know say what you will about how that went that stuff didn't happen before right no you're right over the years we just we we waited for either marner or matthews to make a play to to wake the team up now they're they have that element and you know that moment there where he crushes two guys and jack guys like i want a piece of this guy takes an instigator puts the leafs on the power play like just something to sort of like shake the game out of its rut which you know reeves only played eight minutes last night i

thought he had the puck a lot i thought he made good plays with it i thought he was in good spots like if he can play hockey like that that's i think really encouraging sign for their fourth line which was maybe their best line last night in terms of expectations. The only thing is, is eventually we're going to have to see Bertuzzi really start creating some offense with these guys. If that doesn't happen, can you see maybe a switch in terms of Matthew Nyes, between Max Domi, it's not really set in stone if Bertuzzi can't really find a regular spot on this line to produce five-on-five.

Or do you stay patient for a week, two weeks? It wasn't a good training camp, and it wasn't terrific, even strength for him with the three of them but now you're you go four or five games and and they're not producing as a line do you want to see domey with marner you want to see what happens there so i i didn't think max had a great game last night yeah uh i think he finished with 11 and a half minutes but i'll say not a good debut for me. Good player, but not a great debut.

It's early. It's just early. And again, I don't think that the guys came out relaxed, that's for sure, or confident. And for many, it was an average training camp. There's nothing really that you can sit there and go, I'm feeling it now. Let's go. We're going for real here.

But it's early. It's just, you know, 81 more to go here. But it wasn't good. It wasn't a great start. The left side, which we had you in particular, highlighted last year as a problem. Last night, you know, Bertuzzi maybe didn't quite get it going. Domi didn't quite get it going yet.

I thought Matthew Nyes, you know, had some moments as the game went on but i kind of felt like he was on an island his line you know we'll get a fraser minton well if you want to go there yet unfortunately for the kid you know he very young and expectations high wasn't a great game for him last night he looked tentative hesitant which are all the things that you're supposed to look like it's normal unbelievable which is why it's crazy to go into the game like i'm not nervous like maybe he either played poorly or he was nervous whatever but it wasn't there for me he didn't look like an nhl player to me but just to go back to who's going to play with matthews marner like last year there wasn't a lot of it was like maligan they were considering putting there like now you actually have there that's what i mean but now it's like it's like

what do we try kerfoot again or like it's like they actually have options with different types of offensive players that they can put there never thank you never flex seal uh yeah there's actually guys now that you can mix and match there's different types of guys that you can put up there but like i'm sticking with Bertuzzi for a while there. For sure. And I really do think it's going to start to... They started to look good as that game went on, and I felt like they had the puck more.

You know, Tavares and Nylander, while I thought individually were pretty good, their line, you know, not great. Tavares, you look at the score sheet, three assists. Did he really? Yeah, three assists. Genuinely stunned to hear that. It's like his career where sometimes it's not that flashy,

but he finds a way to produce. If we're going to go to the good or the bad, I think two of them were on the power play. I'll find the clips. Not bad. Brandeo, not bad at all. We're on the power play, but... Find the clips. Not bad, Brandale. Not bad at all. Defensively, I think there's some issues with Tavares and Nylander and last night with Max.

Last year, Tavares and Nylander were actually outscored when they were a line. Like, they're a line at 5-on-5 when they're on the edge. They've never had chemistry. No. They've been had chemistry. No. They've been forced together out of necessity, I guess, when they don't want to put Matthews and Marner, like, they don't want to break them up.

But they've never really, it's never really gelled. No. Has it? Well, they're both shooters, right? Yeah, and they just, I feel like they're not really a natural fit. And, you know, defensively, I think Tavares has a conscience, but he's not, he doesn't have the speed. And Nylander, I would say, doesn't have a conscience.

Yeah, I'd agree with that too. So finding a way to win, positive. Yeah, finding a way to win. Your best players leading, positive. Positive. You know, like I mentioned, I thought Klingberg, a great debut. Okay. All right.

We're heading towards the defense. Okay. And that's where I think if... Do you want to do more Minton before we go to defense? Yeah. Because I think that's an important note that, to me, they're going to give him some run. You're not going to say one game, it didn't go great, send him down.

But I thought you had an article in which you wrote about the young kids. Wrote today in the Toronto Star. You can find it on my Twitter or X, whatever you want to call it. A real kipper. And basically I talk about the challenges of players like that in the past that really surprise at training camp. And then the urge to hold on to them and when is it enough and when is it too much and when do you run the risk of kind of messing with their heads a little

bit which is all something that i've watched for 30 plus years you know as a player in the american hockey league the nhl and i kind of touched on that in the article today. And no question between him and Easton Cowan, who's now back in London, they worked hard for all the accolades. Yeah. But at the same time, you got to be so careful because you only have one chance.

You're like a parent. You only have one chance to develop or raise your child, right? Don't screw it up. Yeah. But it's tough in this town. chance you're like a parent you only have one chance to develop or raise your child right don't screw it up yeah uh but it's tough in this town skittles and watching youtube every day is that good it's tough and for for minton now to be locked in because we know matthews isn't going anywhere we know tavaris isn't going anywhere and there's times that maybe willie might be involved that if he's gonna stick all year he going to have to be in this third-line role. And if he's mentally in a good place,

like Sheldon has told us, and how mature he is, even physically, as a 19-year-old kid, can he physically handle that night in, night out? Or are you better off sending him back to junior and letting him run wild with the offense and being a number one guy somewhere and then having that be on the power play and play for the world juniors yeah be out there the dying lock right now yeah an absolute lock so you know what is what is the best thing i think

there's a really good debate and i I think the Toronto market is relevant here where it's like if you keep a guy into the regular season as they have done, the expectations, the public awareness of the player goes through the roof. If you send him home a week ago, he's just another prospect that you kind of hope can come along. So it does change his mindset, the public's mindset of him or whatever. But I also think, think you know they made the

point tree living said that when we made our best lineup every day he was in it he was always a part of it and so why not kind of keep playing them so i think they've kind of committed to seeing him for x amount of games here whatever the number may be five is a minimum maybe but you know last night it's tough to see he's not giving nyes any help or Yarncroft any help. And he's working hard and he's smart and he's not making big mistakes. But he's just a little shy to be able to get in there and engage with men. The other point I made in my article today was that there's this amazing ability to overhype when it comes to what the media does and how many articles there are out there. We know how many.

It's so competitive in the media, whether it is the Toronto Star or Sportsnet.ca or The Athletic. You're constantly trying to push storylines out there, and a lot of them have been overminton. And sometimes, is it too much does it affect anything at all does it does it raise the expectations and then do people end up being disappointed right and i used robertson as an example example. Okay. Like a year ago. If he were just coming up now, 22 years old, he scored 50. How many articles were there about this guy playing with Austin Matthews

and being almost an untouchable, if not an untouchable prospect? Dude, he played in playoffs for them against Columbus four years ago. I can't remember on our panel who said it, but he should have seen his last American Hockey League game. I said it. Oh. I thought you were sincere in not being a jerk. No, I'm a good actor.

That's a big mistake. Listen, I'm learning my lesson. And I'm not trying to embarrass you, because if, we'd be, we'd have a two hour show. You can embarrassing me. I got you. So, but it goes to show you what, and you know what the, how this all ties into is the thing that you told me that I wanted to get in on air yesterday, but we didn't.

And that is the waiver wire. Do you remember that one? Yeah. Okay everybody listening well what's really hard and has been hard for the toronto maple leafs is getting guys through the waiver wire i think it's because of the toronto media where everyone around the league is well aware that's one theory you know or that they didn't like kyle dubas is your theory but that's i mean that's a pretty on par theory for me. It was Craig Needles who had this out there. At the time, the period of like 2018 to 2022, 89 players were picked up on waivers.

So that's about two or three per team. 11 Toronto Maple Leafs were claimed over that time. Like they typically just had, and it wasn't all stars. It's Harry S satari gets claimed to zingle and brooks amadio brooks again travis boyd jimmy vc aaron dell dimitro timoshev like you know if you were a leaf for a while you got claimed and you think it's people like screw this guy well i mean it's hard to imagine bobby mcmahon who has shown flashes of being able to be like a bottom six guy for great score in the american league last year just you know he makes it through

martin jones who is like a established you know not great but nhl goaltender that can play nhl games was played every year makes it through and it's like well what's the difference here and it's like there's been luck and timing for sure and it's doing it at the time where everybody's cleaning people through waivers but we've talked about this before about them people claiming them on dubious like is this not a thing that's talked about talked about like i've read it's talked about i don't subscribe to it i think i do think it is toronto we talk about the names more so you know who team ashav is we don't know who team ashav is of is in columbus what do you think i i'm with you i i

think the i i think uh there's a few assists that should be credited to the toronto media every once in a while if we look down that list for losing a player yeah harry said terry yeah or getting a fifth rounder for sam lafferty yeah up the... Hey, we had him pegged to play with Tavares and Willie. Mm-hmm. Or Nyes. When was Harry Satay? Was that when, like, every boy got hurt? Harry Satay?

Arizona claimed him March 21st of 22. I think that was last year. Just to put a bow on this conversation, you really think Minton will be down return to junior before the hundred before the 10 games 100 he's going to yeah it's the best thing for him to handle pox even if he looks great in the next eight games like this guy's i don't think they intend for him to be here in playoffs and then you bring up homberg well yeah easy kipper there's a part of your article there that i read that i was actually really surprised by was that a lot of the junior gms say that it's not always it's not a positive

thing for these guys staying up oh no no i was stunned by that why i don't know it's just like you think well you get the taste of the nhl and you're yes and then you come back and then you're in a van this big yeah and you're riding on the bus to Red Deer. And you're packing your own bag. And the shrimp cocktail turned into chicken McNuggets. I'll take either one, to be honest. And there's sometimes I'm too good for this league. I should be up there.

And it takes a while to adjust and kevin hatcher was a great defenseman right and a guy that got sent back after his first training camp and burt templeton would just first month it would be like you're our worst player yeah oh i believe it i mean he just played a game in the NHL. I think he scored one goal in his first two games, gets sent back. And, like, you talk to these junior teams that get their players after a month of NHL life. Yeah.

They come back a little different. There is an adjustment period. So what you're saying is the London Knights got the ideal scenario here with Ethan Cowan being here for training camp, getting the taste of that, playing with these guys, getting, you know, they're talking to all the other London Knights that play for the attack. I'm going to play for Toronto, lovely.

And then, yeah, then they send me. I can assure you between Dale and Mark Hunter, yeah, Easton's got no shot at getting a bigger ego coming back. Yeah, he doesn't seem like the type who would, but you're right. He'll be putting his place up. Yeah, Kevin Hatcher had an awesome NHL career. He did. He was over 1,000 games.

It's crazy that he was like that. Yeah, absolutely. He was violent. Okay, can we talk about the blue line? Yes, please. And Klingberg, I will go with a few things that you're saying one of them that i instantly noticed was on matthew's first power play goal the ability to uh to to to drag into the middle of the ice and with a right-handed stick either fake a shot and then the slide to knee lander um for okay on the knee

lander goal one timer yeah was something that we haven't normally seen and that is that's his strength right there and he gets it to the right guy how many times last year did i send you guys a screenshot i love morgan riley but of him you know hanging on to the puck well you know matthews has got his stick cocked in the corner or something. He moves it before we see it at home. I just think he's really good up there. I understand that all that comes with him. I thought he had a great debut.

It worked out for him. He almost played 25 minutes, didn't he? He played the most among any defenseman. Even before they were scoring on the power play, he was making nice plays at the puck, breaking it out. If he can find a way to get a clean outlet pass his his rate of success goes up substantially the less time he spends in his own zone yeah and i don't think that's something that we can't say for five other guys last night i i saw a blue line that says hey

entertaining game but there's a lot to be cleaned up on this blue line the the two nothing goal off of uh the start of the second period bothered me you're a minute minute and a half in and you're down one nothing and then montreal ends up with a 100-foot 2-on-1. So Klingberg's in the offensive zone corner. He's battling. The puck goes around. McCabe goes in for a pinch that has no chance.

Max Domi doesn't seal the wall, I think. Nylander gets flat-footed and Tavares is chasing. And we know Tavares has his challenges with speed. So I just looked at that goal and I said, man, that's a goal I've seen a lot with Justin Hall on occasion. That's a typical goal we've seen the Leafs give up over the last few years. McCabe, if you got a guy like Klingberg,

you can't get caught like that. And he's moving the puck back to his own position. He goes into the corner and cycles it back up the wall. If you're a D-man, you're getting a touch on the puck. I talked to someone today who said that Klingberg and McCabe are a dangerous pair because mccabe makes adventurous plays that's one of them and it is i thought adventurous was a great word for some of mccabe's is an absolute adventure i will say he's a guy that stats hate or don't they don't like his game typically but i still love

like he threw some hits last night for me that were like okay it's some it's an element the leafs don't have on the back end at least he had to like that about his game kepper that he runs into people i i think i find him tentative in his own zone sometimes i think he wonders if i'm in the right place or not i can see i i saw signs of his own zone coverage that warrants to the lack of success in anaheim last year and for cleanberg yeah for cleanberg okay yeah yeah and i think again if if he can just clean that up if they can clean it up as a unit and you know some stumbles last night i'm not holding it up against you know tj brody that he blew a wheel no that's a one-off lilligren you know, TJ Brody that he blew a wheel. No, that's a one-off. Lilligren. Hold on now. Did Lilligren not make that exact play in playoffs that turned into a goal?

The Panthers, did he not muff one up the wall? We've seen it a few times. That exact play? He tends to have a hole in his stick from time to time. Right. You know, you can't have every game be like, he was good except for those two plays. A little Jake Gardner in them. That's a good one, actually, yeah.

Tons of cleaning up in aisle five yeah for the leafs if what like just giving up five and samsonov didn't bail him out well can i ask about just clingberg in terms of the power play stuff before i move on from it like you can't teach feel to me and to me like that is going to be his greatest strength is just the feel that he has at the top of it. Like, it just seems like you said, getting it to the right guy at the right time. It just seems like he has a way better feel for it than Riley. He keeps that puck in, was it on the 5-5 goal or whatever? Like, he just has hand eyes, one of those guys.

And he sees Willie at the top of the circle with a stick up, and he puts it on a pillow and he fires it in, right? It's just... All right, it wouldn't be a real Kipper and Bourne show if we didn't have a Sheldon Keefe, Kipper's Clipper. So, Brandeo, can we have Keefe clip five on Samsonov? Tough game for him, right? Not a lot of action, big gaps between shots,

especially in the second and third periods. Yet a lot of really dangerous shots and dangerous looks. So, yeah, I think that, you know, like a lot of things today, like I said, you get the two points, you move on from it. And I guess before I say that, he stood his ground. We were shorthanded in overtime. And he's perfect in the shootout. So let's build upon that.

Coach going to bat for him like that. I don't know if he has any other choice i guess game one you can't go out there and go yeah we could have used a couple a but didn't have a good training camp and didn't have a good opening night no would you like to hear samsonov's thoughts on the on the match very much so okay let's hear it not fun game for a goalies, especially for Toronto goalies. I don't know, too many bounds, yes. All right, we have what we have. You know, like, I'm just trying to focus on the next shot and try to win this game.

And I'm trying to forget about what's going on. Sometimes we have this game, it's not too fun but it's okay we win we have two points and i'm so excited about the result you know what if he can forget stuff he's a goalie yeah by the way clip him every chance you get this year i give him so much credit for how much he talks to media without english being his first language. He just goes out there and he does it every time and just gets through it. The most terrifying thing in the world is me going to Russia

and being like, well, there's more reasons I'd be terrified, but like, hey man, how was the game in Russia? He does it. He goes out there and does it. You gotta give him credit for that. They'd make cue cards for you to read. Figure it out. I give him credit for that. He does. They'd make cue cards for you to read. Yeah, maybe. The, you know, I give him credit for that too.

And I give him credit for him saying, like, you just try to forget the last one and just try to keep the next one out. Because Jack Campbell doesn't seem to be able to do that in Edmonton. Boy. I, four weeks, five weeks, like, he's not been good. And when do you go okay like be better or yeah you gotta give joseph walls saturday let's go to saturday game two samson samson off start yeah given yeah i think you let him work it out for sure like i i feel like you've committed to the guy for the year and it's not like you're just he's new to the league like we saw what he can

do in a regular season last year so i think you give him a chance to find that form again i don't think i don't think if if joseph wall started saturday night i don't think that's uh we've given up on you or mad at you or anything i think it's just maybe gives them a chance to regroup a little bit. That's all. Because I do value what's been going on with him in training camp. Game two, you give it to the kid who's played 15 games? People are telling me Joseph Wall is going to be the goalie in the playoffs. I'm not saying that there's

anything to be read into it much more than acknowledging that he had not had a good training camp and we'd like more reps this week. And Joseph, go start Saturday night. Have we heard any sort of declaration about their goaltending plan?

Do they intend to be a one and a two? I had the sense that if if things being all equal and you saw a lot of what samsonov provided you last year that he he clipped the 50 game mark for the first time 27 i don't think 50 i think 50 would be uh a magic number between 45 and 50 yeah so. So, you know, to your point, it's not a massive indictment if you intend the guy to play 32 games. If you say you're, it's only that it's hockey night in Canada.

The season's just starting. Like if you're the guy who's getting the bulk of the games, you want to be the guy. You want to keep him happy. It's a pretty clear message that if they go to wall on Saturday night, that it's a split.

Yeah. And that the leash is nonsense. See, I don't see that. What? I don't see that. But there't see that but there's four games three days between games i think between 20 and 30 games is wall's number and you you know you got to make sure that you got him feeling good too and not sitting around i mean does that that would samsonsonov Saturday night would all but guarantee Joseph Wall for Monday against Conor Bedard. Yes, which is fine. Yeah, that's the right fit for sure.

You go Wall and then you have the Panthers and Lightning this week. So then you go back to him for those games. To me, he's a starting goaltender. I will say, so we sat here yesterday and I said, you know, there's going to be six, five games this year. The D and the goaltending is questionable. They're going to score like crazy. It's 6-5.

I don't think we learned anything different from Samsonov or the D core. Like, I don't feel. Yeah, we did. We did learn. It's really not going to be good enough. They've got to, Bradtree Living has to change it up. And I went on record on our preseason game that if not one major one, two. D or goalie?

D. Okay. D. That's my first focus. And then Samsonov will tell us by probably November, December, if there's really an issue. For the D, I agree. And I've said similar.

I just, it's so hard because you're not moving Riley. Klingberg, if he looks like he can run your power play and be a good player, that's interesting. McCabe is two million bucks because they retained half of it in Chicago. So you're keeping him. He's cheap. Brody.

It's Lilligren in this spot. Lilligren and Giordano. Giordano is the guy taking Hall's minutes on the PK, the first unit. You know, fun game last night, but anybody but Montreal with a decent goalie and a decent shutdown you're not coming back with four and a half minutes to go down five three i thought that the team played well enough what they were shooting 45 25 i know that's not right

but like the ballpark they carried the game and the fact that they were losing that game i was determined to not say that it was a bad game because I really thought they outplayed them and carried the play. You just didn't get the saves. A couple of turnovers. All right, Tammy, are we going to break? Yeah, we can hit a break here. We've still got lots to talk about, including the goal song.

Still? Oh, yeah. Loved it. I know I write for the Toronto Star, but why do they need to put that on the front page of the newspaper front page of the paper in toronto today it's literally front page news okay against my better judgment um sammy and jb will be having a conversation on the goal song after the break you are watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born.

The best Blue Jays show out there, period. Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. all right should i go for coffee or uh run out and get you guys something to eat while you have a discussion on the leaf goal song do Do you have an opinion on it? Oh, you got my opinion yesterday. I'm not revisiting it.

Here's what you'll like. Okay, because sometimes Matthews and your thoughts on Matthews are sometimes a little more critical than others, which is good because everybody really loves him in this market and you keep everybody accountable. Keeps agging. But he had a clip about he was asked about the goal song. Would you like to hear what he had to say about the goal song?

Listen, a guy scores a hat trick. He gets asked about the music. We're going to listen. Yeah, let's have it. I don't even remember it. Honestly, I didn't even register. So I'll have to give it a listen here later tonight. Oh, see, now I love him more.

I know. I knew he would love that. He had no idea what the goal sign was. Thank you. He had no idea. Thank you. He was locked in. That, to me, is the proper answer that doesn't factor into what we do on the ice.

Vibes, baby. You need good vibes. I tell you, I loved it. You know what I really like is, first off, shoot a happiness, good song, like the whatever message and all that for the team. But there's an underlying beat to it that you can feel in the arena that has some pace.

I think they moved into like not being, you know, going into like a dive bar in like northern Ontario from You Make My Dreams Come Through into like a party zone. Which is fun. Again, because I was watching the game and not caring, what did they play? It's Pursuit of Happiness by Kid Cudi. That was the first goal that they scored? Yeah.

The Oki remix? Yeah. And then was it followed up with, did it stay the same all night? Yes. It stays the same way. Yeah. So, but they have like six different versions. So we don't have to go too long on this, but like I read it out yesterday.

But I think the theory is, and I talked about this on leaf stock last night with jd bunk is is that they're gonna have all these different versions of the song right and they'll do a classic rock one it'll probably do a next generation they'll probably do bieber or something but then at the end of the year they'll probably just do like a vote and be like hey which one of these is your favorite and then they'll just do a vote and then that'll be the permanent one the kid caddy one also has some sing-alongable characteristics like later in the... I'm always in the pursuit

of true happiness is the least winning the cup. That's like my pursuit of happiness. That's the true pursuit. So it makes sense. We've now talked long enough about this. We're there. I've been singing it all day. I can't get it out of my head. I thought we might play it on the show but then I realized that might cost us a couple bucks. I don't know if I

believe you or not. What do you mean? I loved it. You did? Just stick with it. I'm actually shocked you liked it, to be honest. Well, I like Kid Cudi. Okay. You know, I'm multifaceted. But I just, it's just nice to have it be like a pump-up bang. Like back when I was a kid, I forget what it was, but it was just like a sick techno song

to get everybody fired up. Zombie Nation? Yeah. That's what you need. You don't need some classic rock song that, like, you know. Anyways, we can move past it. Kipper, we're done. There you go. No, moving on. Uh-oh. All season long.

Yeah. We're never talking about the goal song ever again. What about Pro Bash Thursdays? Make me a promise. What about Pro Bash? I will not promise you that. I will absolutely not make that promise. All right, let's go to another Sheldon Keefe clip.

Six, Derek on pulling the goalie. I don't consider it to be that early when you're down two, but it's circumstantial at that time. A lot of times you're making that decision based on the energy level of your best players, usually making sure you're managing that right. And I believe it was an icing at that time. I was going to wait one more shift, but there was an icing. And I thought I wanted Matthews and Marner had just come off from a shift previously.

I wanted to give them one more shift to recover. And, you know, I asked them if they were good to go at that time, and they were. And Tavares and Elander were already fresh, so it was just a good time. So it's more with the goalie out stuff, a lot of it, it's all about kind of managing the bench and making sure your top guys are rested. You weren't down a goal. You were down two goals.

Yeah. So I didn't even get the sense that that was that early. I don't know. Like we went through the league last year and looked at the early goalie polls. Four and a half minutes is early. I don't know how many would have been much earlier than that league wide. Like it's a pretty early poll.

I will say we. It offends my sensibilities. I hate it. And I know it's right. Yeah. And I hate it. It's just one fumble of the puck with four minutes left in the hockey game and it's over. Yeah.

It's like, how often does that, you know, Bunkus was killing me last night for this because I hate it. And he's like, oh, it worked once for the first 100 times that they've tried it. Like, it's just so rare that pulling the goalie with four minutes left works. I would say the combination of circumstances you're talking about matters. Two and a half is too late. Two 30s is a sweet spot to me. No, it's not.

Two goals. With two, it's three minutes is fine. But four 50 is like, oof. Yeah. I like that. And I like the idea that the players were fresh. You know, sometimes we have, I won't even say we,

you have been critical of Sheldon at not adjusting, not whatever. Yeah, I saw a couple of signs where I think he was, just maybe it's the new faces and getting a feel and the other challenge I think he still has and I know they they gave up one power play goal is like the feel of uh penalty killing and I I didn't like the power play goal that Montreal scored for just one reason, that they came out of a TV timeout. So everybody's rested and everybody's healthy, ready to go.

And he leads with Kempf and Jarnkrok. I mean, like Marner. I'm sorry. Coming off of a commercial break, your best penalty killer is Mitch Marner, and he doesn't have him out there because he thinks he wants to keep him now with Austin Matthews on the follow-up. Yep.

So this is a really good point, and that is, so I thought Keefe, good game yesterday. They challenged the goal to make it, you know, when it's 3-0, that probably brings the game back to them and helps them salvage points. The early goalie pull, the Domi benching, they had Klaas moved up a bit. Like, I liked a lot of what happened.

I think that's a great point about the PK. Mitch Marner might have been the best penalty killer in the NHL last year, or the top five. Yeah. And because Matthews is going to PK with them, they're going to roll them out as not the top pair, but against the second unit or in the back half of the power play, it looks like in game one.

And I don't know about that. Is that to catch the other team a little tired later in the unit? I think it gives them a chance to be more offensive. Against the second unit. Or the tail end of the first unit. How good of a power play or a penalty killer do you think Austin can be? Like, is the skill level and the ability to strip pucks i think automatic that this guy should be a him and marner should be phenomenal him and marnover

are both top five turnover guys in the nhl you know great sticks good hockey sense i think he was number one in the league in block shots like i think he should be an elite penalty killer completely agree i think it could be like bergeron and marchand reincarnated like they just really have that ability both of them but if you're gonna roll out camp and yarn croc first every time i don't like it as much agreed yeah so it's a give and take but i i think marner needs to be out there to start the penalty kill absolutely the other thing again me being a fourth line guy noticed noticed that Sheldon had, I think, to end a period, Ryan Reeves out there. And we can follow this up with a general fourth line

and what you saw out of it. And then I do believe that Ryan Reeves probably had a coughed one up the middle, I think. I think he got a little lucky on the last minute, and you could kind of see him slam his stick a little bit. But, you know, that's one of those where I know you want to instill confidence in guys, and it's great. I loved it.

But they score in that play that eyeballs go to you, Sheldon, on why did you have ryan reeves out there in the last minute even in that final minute of the game when when it was tied up again like matthew nyes is out there maybe even fraser minton got on the ice at that point like he he used his players last night but the fourth line was good that my mea culpa from earlier in the week is that Gregor, all of a sudden I love him. Not the goal. We've seen a million of these guys. You loved Aston Reese last year. I did like Aston Reese.

I liked him as a defensive guy for them. Same comment with a blank and then we're just going to erase Aston Reese and then we're going to put Gregor. No way. But you got love now for Gregor. I do have love for Gregor. Speed. He's fast. I mean, that shot, was that

Conor Bedard or was that Noah Gregor? He just shot it across his body, posted it. Terrible goal by Allen. Horrible. Allen. Bad. And that's a killer if you're Montreal. You're just about up 3-0 and all of a sudden that makes it 2-1. You're like, oh, here we go.

Yeah, that one was where the bench looks at Jake and go, come on. Yeah, we need you. But Gregor, like, great wheels, carried the puck in, had a couple opportunities. I don't disagree. And camp was good. And for the record, I like Gregor a lot more than I do Aston Reeves. Yeah, Aston Reeves just cleared waivers, so that's a league thing. Zach, Aston Reeves just beats the puck to a square,

and he shot in the net last night, Gregor, on the first night. But I think his skating ability and the way he looks like out there last night, I mean, it feels like pretty good asset management by Brad Treleving to get a fifth for Lafferty, and then to sign a guy that can play a similar game to Lafferty for 500K less. I agree. I still like Lafferty. Lafferty actually played 18 some minutes for Vancouver last night,

which was the fourth most among their forwards, had nice assists. He's an NHL player. He is. I do want to hear Sheldon on the fourth line. Yeah, just real quick on Lafferty. There was a lot of teams in on Lafferty. Did they not have a fourth then? I think obviously not.

I think it started out like a six or seven that ended up a fifth okay and edmonton wanted him really bad a great fit for the oilers could have they could have used a little help yeah yeah their fourth line with derrick ryan whatever like that's not the answer by the way we yeah we'll talk about the oilers after. Not the way you want to start. Let's hear Sheldon Keefe. That would be clip three on the Leafs' fourth line last night. I thought our fourth line was outstanding. At camp, Gregor and Reeves were great.

Reeves, the way he started the game, two great hits, gets the crowd involved, draws an instigator on a fight, gives our team every opportunity to score in the power play. And was consistently good throughout the game. So that was a real... That's what I take away from the game. I was really pleased to see that. The first thing I say is that

you got a fourth line that knows it's a fourth line. And you're not going anywhere. You'll never be on the first or second line. The worst is when you's a fourth line. Right. And you're not going anywhere. Right. You'll never be on the first or second line. Weird fourth line. The worst is when you've got a fourth line who just think that they're a first line and waiting. And the Leafs have had that in big playoff series.

And no disrespect to Spezza. It was wonderful for them. But, yeah, he was a big part of their fourth line for two years in the postseason. So, yes, this is a fourth line. Proper. they got the crowd into it like uh sheldon said there god is there any more tired conversation than skosh bank arena being quiet like it's like oh it's a it's a museum in there oh it's a library yeah guess what it's been like that forever it's a bunch of corporate money guys we know what it is there's a million diehard Leafs fans.

Don't let them. It's pretty quiet in there. I'm like, hey, you got a plan to pray joke next? Like, holy. Yeah, we get it. They're cutting deals that help them pay for the tickets. Yeah, we get it. That's what they're doing.

It's quiet. It's quiet in the first game of the regular season. It's like, oh, they're down two zip to the Habs in October. Oh, the guts get rowdy. It's like, give me a break. That building can get real loud. Of course. Like we've seen in the postseason. People love to make fun of get rowdy. It's like, give me a break. The gut building can get real loud. Of course. Like we've seen in the postseason.

But like, they love, people love to make fun of it for that. It's like, shut up. And that's the only time I think Montreal comes in to Scotiabank Arena, if I'm not mistaken. What? What? No. No, I think, I think this year's schedule has two games. You could be, you could be right, right?

You think you play your own division? I need verification. schedule has two games. You could be right. You think you play your own division. I need verification. But I think the next time Toronto plays Montreal is in March. I don't hate that. While they're not competitive, the two of them are not.

You got to have Toronto-Montreal. Did we not change everything for rivalries? You are correct. The next time change everything for rivalries? Right. You are correct. The next time they play them is March 9th. And then both the games that they play them are in Montreal, so you're right.

And the next one's April 6th. In Montreal as well. Yep. So that was it. That's it. Hope you liked seeing the Habs. Yep. That's a long time ago.

The Uri Slavkovsky show. Who I thought? It just popped a little bit last night he's fine great play on the on the two-on-one new hook he does look so much like he is fancy you know what i got out of last night too like i like nize a lot yeah i do there's nothing last night that discourages me i think he's not his best game but you can see i think he's in waiting right now he's just in a holding pattern kip they got to play him with someone yeah well right now i i agree that uh i i think he's gonna find himself on a on a top six for sure sooner than later, they got him out there. He made a great play. I really wanted that one for him.

Allen laying on his belly and caught the toe of his pad. So, yeah, I thought he got better as the night went on. Jarn Kroc. Yeah. Jarn Kroc will be that guy that he's the new Kerfoot. Yes. Three years left. 2.25 per year.

Do you want my scary admission? Okay. About watching Domi play with Nylander and Tavares last night? Let's have it. Some Kerfoot vibes. From Domi. Yeah. He's just smaller.

Yeah, that's what I mean. It's just like the smaller guy that didn't do a ton. Oh, hey now. But the smaller guy that didn't do a ton playing with those two guys. I know he's better, but it's just like I had a PTSD. It'll come for Max. Of course. All right.

Just like that. Our first hour is up, but there's more real Kipper and born in the next hour. As we go national big stories, Edmonton Oilers. Wow. Not just a loss, but moralizing loss for many people that have the Edmonton Oilers winning a Stanley Cup

and they're on sportsnet.ca in the next hour we'll give you all their names all right more after the break real kipper and born