Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: State of the D-Core

Episode Date: October 28, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne, and Sam McKee examine the state of the Leafs' defensive core through 9 games, the lack of success in defending the rush and Max Domi's search for his role this season. Then, they search for some optimism for the team's offence. Later, Sportsnet.ca's Eric Francis (30:00) stops by to chat about the type of team Toronto will be facing with the Calgary Flames, Nazem Kadri's fit, Dustin Wolf's prior post-game comments on the team's performance to start the year, if the organisation will look to shift into a rebuild, and the expectations for the young defenceman Zayne Parekh.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Kicking in the Leaf Hour edition of our program on the Real Kippin-Born show. We are live on Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet 590, the fan in Toronto, and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. We're also available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube if you don't catch us live. This hour of Real Kippron Bourne brought to you by Bet365. Nick Kippreels, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. So we get ready for the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Calgary Flames. Once again, note the start time, 6 p.m. Love that.

I mean, an all-time great sports watching night when you're tired and you don't want to do anything tonight to sit down and be like, all right, leaves and the Jays tonight. Would you eat dinner in the first period? Of Leafs? Yeah. Buddy, I got young kids. We're eating at like 4 o'clock if we can.

As soon as he get home. As soon as we can get home. dinner in people's gullets the process started I'll be turned on the grill pretty much as soon as I get home get everything done what are you throwing on there

I just got some chicken thighs marinating oh yeah nothing exciting listen but I'm gonna roast some cauliflower and call the day so what's the average time of an NHL game is it 220 to 10 do you expect like you want the game

finished like they should like even if we need running time but you got to be done before first pitch tonight in L.A. No shot. No shot. No shot. They're going to overlap. And for sure. I mean, 6 p.m. Puck drop. Was it 8.08 or 803 puck or first pitch? Whatever it is. I'm not sure. Just after eight. But yeah. And then

me and Gunner are doing lease talk, which will be the least listen to least talk of all time. Please tune in and support me. You got away with the weekend. You were lucky you got away for the weekend. 100%. Bunk just. These were pregame shows. He's doing Js. Like, I mean, fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. I got her doing Leafs. And if you really love me for my true puck knowers out there, my true Leaf fans, please tune in.

I will say I've had several people come up to me and be like, I like the Leafs. I listen to your show for the, stop talking about the Jays. We'll get there. Okay, for those of those that tell J.B. You're not happy with the talk. Let's go to. No more baseball.

Let's go to head coach, Burubi on his thoughts on the Jays last night. Oh, we don't have the clip. Oh, Sammy, you had... Hey, Sammy had it built as clip one. Sammy, paraphrase for us. Send him, send them, send them. What did he say?

Listen, that's all on me. I can't bury Derek. I cut these clips nice and early today and forgot to put them in the system, so Can't Barry... You don't have any clips? No, they're going in. I'm just put them in right now.

Oh, okay. I forgot to actually put them in. So what about Barubi did you like so much about his Jay breakdown? I just thought it's funny that, like, he did a legit overview of the baseball game. Oh, he did? Yeah. He doesn't even do his own team.

No, he gave it much more detailed. Well, good news. Derek's already got it. Derek, let's let her rip. Let's go. Well, I mean, that's, yeah, I mean, that's a tough one. Like, they play again tonight, and it's like, you know, get the bed late. It's a long haul.

You use a lot of pitchers. So, you know, I mean, tonight, you know, for me, I think they just keep doing some, the same things they're doing. Like, I don't think they get away from what they've been doing. and they've been successful, and the game's right there, right? You know, one play here or there, and it's a different ball game, they win the game. Hey, get balls to the plate.

Take it deep. Just take it deep. Play in there. Yeah, whatever. Just get balls to the plate. Go north, then west and southern. His teams never score. They only go north and south.

Oh, yeah. They just run up and down the first face. Oh, we're off the rails, boys. Never in sleep. All right, so where do you want to start? The lineup, do we expect Willie? So let's listen to this clip about Willie, and you be the judge of this.

What number is it? It's clip three. It's on Willie if he's good to go. Yeah, I think it depends on a couple things. I really don't want to get too detailed into it, but there's a couple areas where, you know, he needs to feel right. And, like, it's hard for him to know

until it's, like, game time out and warm up and how he feels and how he's doing certain things. That's the decision that's going to be made. What does that sound like to you for an injury? It happened against Buffalo across from Game 1 of the World Series, right? Do you get cross-checked or rib or? Bleak. Oblike.

You got the spring right? That could be from the top of your head to the bottom of your feet. You're not wrong. Right? No, you're not wrong. Could be ankles. Like, if I knew nothing about the situation, I heard any coach describe his player like that,

I'm thinking he got bunked in the head. Yeah, check for clarity out there. Yeah. I don't know. So that is going to be something to see. I kind of want to see Sammy Blaze tonight, just because I kind of want to see Sammy Blaze play. I'd rather see William the Lander.

No, I'd rather see William the Lander, to be clear. If given a choice. If given a choice to be clear. Did he not spend the whole year in the American Hockey League last year? He was a key to the... I know some players who played the American Hockey League. I had pretty good at each other careers, Kip. Yeah, but when they were like 22...

Oh, okay. He was a con-tog of the average. Can he regain anything he had in his Stanley Cup days with Craig Bruby? The only thing I'll say is that it means the world to have a coach who believes in you, who puts you in a position to play to your strength and understands your game, and maybe that's the case for plays. I'm not sitting here. Yeah, I'm not sitting here for one second pretending that he's going to be a difference maker for him.

But I know that he's someone who will try to impress his coach, which means he'll run into people, which I like to watch as a hockey fan. So there's that. However, Robertson could also get a little bit more run on the top line, which I know our boy Simmer had advocated for. And I liked the first look. A nice hockey game there the other day.

Along with Robertson and Bobby McMahon, let's get Craig Bruby's thoughts on what he'd like to see out of these guys. Clips 6, please. Well, I'll use their speed, right? That's why that lines together. It's a fast line. They've got a lot of speed and they're very direct. And I think, you know, that's what they need to do.

Like, user speed, you know, they want to play a territorial game in the offensive zone with Matthews. And Austin's obviously a very good 200-foot player that can do a lot of different things. But I just like to speed on the line, getting the puck up the ice, and getting in the offensive zone. So they got a lot of speed, user speed, and be direct. you know, I don't change how you

are as a player because you're playing with Austin Matthews. Like shoot the puck when you got a chance to shoot the puck and I just, I like the line that's a working line in my opinion with skill. Speed, baby. Can I ask you?

Can I ask you a question? I don't know if this is the right time for this, but I'm going to ask it anyway. I had like an audible annoyed feeling. when he's like be direct i'm a fan that just listens to the clips like what are the players feeling i can tell you and kip you played in the nchl and i didn't but i played enough hockey to know that i would get frustrated with my coaches where it's like it's not always the right

answer you know against every team the same thing no matter your line mates so yes i would get frustrated because that clip just said just frustrated me it's like yeah nick robinson's going to play direct on any team coaches will have a system or have a philosophy or have an attitude that appeases, I don't know, a third of your lineup and then there's a third that might be indifferent and then there might be a third that just can't stand the guy. Yeah.

And I think I don't know where Ruby would lie in all of this, but I'm sure at times they might be a little frustrated that it's just might be a little too simple for them, you know? And they, like we've said, like we've been along for the ride, you know, for a long time now. And we've seen this team transition from puck possession and regroups to holding on to the puck and making plays and cycles and now we're puck's in deep. But I will say, you know, when you, the thing that is different is when you're part of the third that doesn't like the way the coach wants to do it but it works your team is winning and you're

seeing guys have success and everyone else is doing it you'll do it right you'll buy in and but when it's not working a team is losing it's harder to be like it doesn't work for superstars if the team's winning and they're not scoring goals right for the most part there might be a small window where that works especially in the playoffs where you're like hey listen i don't care i mean everybody's feeling good and the team's winning and people are off my best backs for not scoring, I'm okay. But ultimately, the big boys need their cookies and willies amongst the top scores in the game.

And Tavares is off to a good start. Matthew's numbers still look good, although, you know, the underlying numbers stink for Austin, right? I don't know. Is that true? Yeah. No, they're bad. They're bad. And at the end of the day, he's only got one even strength goal in what

10 games, nine games? That's not him. He's been one of the most prolific even scores in the history of the game. That's a concern all in itself. But in the meantime, they are getting the numbers that would satisfy them,

right, over the big course of projected numbers and what kind of pace them on because they pay attention to that stuff all the time. But the team's not thriving. Like you were this close. You were, you know, within a whisker of losing back to back to the Buffalo Sabres. You know, think of the goals Buffalo scored against them

and what they had in common. It's seam plays, a lot of east to west, right? A lot of passes through the offense zone, East West, Thompson on the backside, ripping one on there, and then a lot of rush plays. Offensive players love that stuff. They love getting across the blue, pulling up, looking. Remember seeing St. Louis showing Demadov,

like you're getting across, you're opening up, you've got options. So I think it's really hard when you tell someone who can do that stuff to head down the wall, throw it on the pillows and go, you know, it's like, could I maybe look for a guy? Yeah, like. But that doesn't mean that because it frustrated me as a player that it was a right thing. Maybe I'd have been better doing that coach's stuff. I don't know.

So where are we on this decor? Because with so many changes up front, including Marner leaving, the one thing that we were kind of constant on is that this was a veteran defensive core. they're hard to play against they don't give you much they block shots they're they can frustrate another team on the one hand Morgan and OEL have provided some offense so that's a decent start for them because it was questionable how much offense they're going to get from these guys but overall it's it's it's it's not anywhere near where this group was collectively last season.

And they put him in the blender for tonight. It's Benoit and McCabe, who played together two years ago. Yep. And then it was Riley and Myers. Oh. And then it's L. Reckman-Larsson and Carlo tonight. That's the look. So what are your thoughts about this decor here?

Are they still, should they still be regarded as one of the better ones in the National Hockey League and still a very tough group to play against? There's no, there's no tant. Why? Because we haven't seen it, number one. And number two, there's times they've looked slow. But we've seen all of them be good, effective contributors of good decours. I mean, as recently as last year, so I don't think it just disappears.

Chris Tandev, to me, you know, not his finest start to the year. I know he's hurt now, but he hasn't been quite as good as the year before. McCabe had a slow start. I thought this past couple games really came on. So, you know, I know trying to find more offense at Riley and OEL, maybe that's the tradeoff. It's like, look, if you want to get more offense out of these guys, it's going to be a little worse going this way. Carlo's been bad, period, at the end of that sentence. All right, let's go to Craig Bruby on the struggle so far,

especially on the rush plays that he's seen over the last little while. Clip five. Your defense, but personnel is the same. So why do you think the rush defense has been a bit of a challenge? I think it was more of Reed's up ice in the offensive zone with pinching and things like that, but also, you know, our F3. and just not not structured enough. Like, you know, kind of diving in, getting caught,

and teams are getting by us. And so you kind of get caught in between a little bit, you know, so that's where I see it happening. So we did the Leafs game, whatever was last week, and that was one of our segments. I never got to it. I collected a ton of. Did you?

I did, yeah. I did bad F3, no neutral zone. I should have paid more attention. Were the Js playing that night? Yes, me. They were. But yeah, I did the no F3. And when they do have an F3, they dive in at the breakout

rather than pull out with it and play with numbers. And then they get skated by and, oh, no. Yeah, there's like, have some patience. There's the gaps, the gaps between the blue line and the forwards. And I still got a beef on stretch passing. Can I tell you something just on the transition from Keefe to now, one thing they used to do. So when the rush used to come at the Leafs defense,

they used to do a thing where it was called early takes or some people call it surfing now where the weak side D skates across and skates with the breakout. And then the other D falls in behind, right? That was like a heavy thing. So they killed a lot of rushes before they even got started. Here, this year, both guys just, see ya. Pedal.

They just pedal back, forwards dive in, and it's this big gap between the forwards and the team. Oh, and they're getting killed. getting killed that's really interesting yeah and it's been a major problem so now the other team looks fast the least looks slow and and you hate uh them on our sorry trying to break out of their end through the neutral zone can't make two passes stretch too often yeah two yeah they're not coming together yeah they they don't look like a collective group here and uh we'll see if that changes tonight versus calgary uh let's go to uh Craig brewby's uh new look

decor and how he feels about that clip too well I go back to last year Riley and Myers were good together they played a stretch of games together and just for me you know there's

there's familiarity with Ben Juan McCabe too so that's kind of how that worked out so that's why he got Carlo and Alderickman Larson together it's going to hit something for a decent stretch here on both forward end yeah the whole lineup yeah he's got a he he's got to find

some stability moving forward here because i think the the players are getting a little tired of it yeah you could see that um so we got about yeah we got about 10 minutes here a couple more clips one thing i really wanted to get to um you know max domi struggled a little bit to find a role the spot you know they kind of this is maybe to your point about frustration he's up he's down he's a winger he's the center he's it's it's been a tough

go but statistically I think he has one goal one goal no assist he's playing a dozen minutes a game last I check he had one hit on the year like he just doesn't seem I don't know like he's not going great for Mac yeah I don't know

I mean he had one opportunity to play with Matthews And I think it was against the Devils, right? And it was as bad as it has looked for that line. And clearly that shook the coach a little bit and put him down as the four-line center now. So do you want to play the clip? We do have the clip.

Yeah, clip seven on that. Up and down, you know, I think up and down. Missed a lot of camp. Missed camp, some of the camp. That always hurts a guy a little bit. Just kind of not fully healthy, in my opinion. That's interesting to hear the coach give him a health-related pass. I didn't anticipate that.

I don't know, Phil, he'll ever put up numbers that'll satisfy this fan base or, you know, management. I don't know. I don't think about numbers with him, though? At the end of the day, if it's not a good fit. But on any given night, and especially sometimes in the playoffs, you can see. that there's something there that he can bring the team with an attitude or piss the other team off.

Whatever the case is, there is some value there. Yeah, the onus is on Max to play better or just when the opportunity arises to shine, find a way to be noticed a lot more. That's on Max. Yeah, you know, it's a funny point you made because he's a guy who can do things, I'd say he's something like Addison Barger, actually,

where it's like, maybe you don't think he's your best. Toolsy. He's, you know, like an OT, he had a great goal for him. When they were, had no life in playoffs, there's a game where he's punching someone on the face, right? He had a few moments. I actually didn't like him. That's the attitude.

But he could do things others can. And that was the attitude that was missing from a lot of other players and he brought it and it's like, can't get rid of that. Can't get rid of it because you clearly don't have enough of it. I think it just needs to be slotted correctly and that's something that you are always on about. Needs to be in the right spot. I don't know if he'll ever find a home on any particular line for large stretches. I mean, half a season or a whole season.

He's just going to be one of those guys where he's just going to bounce around a little bit and he should be able to be consistent on whatever line he's on to have. he have a spot just be the third line right winger i'm not taking him off the hook but nick robinson can't find a spot bobby mcmand hasn't found a spot like we're talking machelli hasn't found a spot we've got we got six we got six guys that we're going okay where's their spot is it a fourth line is it a second line but this is a conversation where i think I'm speaking the same for all those guys I'd like to see them all have lines

I'd like to see some consistency for sure I don't know I know that Domi can do some things that other players can't but it's just like how long do it more do it more often Yeah we haven't seen it this year

Just wanted to remind everybody before we move on to our next talking point with the Easter Seals because we're playing again I just want to remind everybody We had a big E-in studio yesterday who, by the way, the baseball card, unbelievable. More cool than the baseball card. Did you shake his hand?

I did. My hand is yet to recover. Was he wearing a baseball glove? I had my hand is yet to recover. So if you're watching on SportsCenter or SportsCet Plus or YouTube or whatever after, you can scan this, you can donate to our team and you can get in on it. You're looking at the line here. I'm playing middle between these two guys in this event.

I'll be hanging out between the blue line and the hash marks trying to pick the pocket. to the defenseman when you're getting it out. So I can make a great cross-sized pass. Whatever you can contribute, bigger, small, it doesn't matter. Just, you know, if you can support us in any way, it's for a great cause. Just use the QR code. Yep. And it's the real Kippenborn-born team.

Yeah. Yeah. The Easter Seals Foundation. I'm the captain. I'm the captain. I'm the captain. I'm the captain now. I'm the captain.

We've got to get some more players. on there's on our team yeah yeah do we need to fill out a roster uh we'll figure that part out but i think alish was interested maybe we'll try to get kenyon involved so yeah it's gonna be fun so please donate it's an unbelievable cause truly they do incredible work as borne says personal you so let's go also not going to be a direct line i can't maybe kippis but i am not direct not direct i am indirect complicated yeah beautiful all right so the next thing the last somebody asked him at the last question of morning skate today was what do you like

because it's the general about the team yes like he kind of was like pause and scratch his head what's gone well would you say how about clip eight Derek we have scored goals we scored enough goals to win more games

than we've won and I like how we're starting to get some secondary scoring here with some guys and the new guys coming in I think are feeling more comfortable and starting to, you know, figure, like, just understand what we need from them and their roles. And I'm excited about that.

But we're still not firing on all cylinders yet, either defensively or just our identity of how we want to play. The last two games, more of our identity, we're way more direct, we're more physical on how we want to play, you know, so we just got to keep working at it. I think, you know, we've got to keep improving. sure yeah there's been more life yeah totally it's so true by the way that you go from a fun coach to a serious coach like like bab this is just babcock this baps this is new babs but yes it has been you can see something taking shape a little bit okay see more jake mccabe just

hammering you know what blows my mind and kip might be able to talk more about this but so when he punches alex tuck in the face yeah he's pulling back to punch him again he's mad like he oh take him down like he has is aware that he yeah like he's like looking to UFC finish him yeah he's because he's mad and there's a lot of people that play hockey mad and seemingly a lot of them don't play for the Toronto Maple Leafs and it was so nice to see a guy legitimately mad and wanting to punch somebody so hard if I punch someone as hard as he punched someone the first time, my next thought would be apologizing. See, part of

Oh my God. Part of... Like this first one on the spin around is nice. Oh, oh, he tried again! Who did he hit? Byram. Byram. So, but that hit... That was like a 2007 hit. Yeah.

The hit that he put on Byron is also a buildup of the season. That's not just a hit. I haven't got to do this yet. Okay, I don't like the direction I'm going, the team's going, something's going to have to change because we're in this funk and that's a targeted, I've got to get myself and the team more emotionally involved. So that was an extension of something's got to change right here and right now. I mean.

Looking for a chance to do something. I had a horrible start. I'm coming off a 17 goal season in Hartford and the first 10 games were just horrible. I'm just horrible, I'm in Dallas, and I'm like, I just, I know the coaching staff and the general manager all over me, and I go hit this guy, James Black, and I hit him, I hit him late, and I split him from forehead, James Black, from one side of his forehead to the other, just clocked him. and it was it was that same similar scenario where I just I'm better off getting thrown out or suspended than going back to the bench with the same feeling that I've had for the past week and a half two weeks where it's like there's just nothing nothing I can do to excite anybody and I'm not saying that he experienced the same thing but it looked awfully close to that for me yeah I mean listen I very much remember being on the bench for teams where it's like starting the season poorly and the coach is yelling, does anybody care? Is anyone going to do something?

It's like, oh, I guess that means I need to go fight. Is that what we're doing here? You know? But for McCabe, he has that awareness. I think Tanev's absence means something to him too, right? He knows he has to step up and be that leader. And he's a big part of this team now, man. In a few minutes, what, Sammy, you good?

Sorry, I was just looking at James Black, hockey DB. Yeah. Yeah. He's a big guy, too. Yeah, he was six-foot 185, played 352 games in the NHL. There's a Hartford guy, too, isn't he? Game time. I spent some time with him, too, in Hartford before he went to Dallas.

Hey, would George Springer know who you are, do you think? George Springer. No, he's too. Yeah, he got the way he was bad. I hate to say it, but I think he was too young. Yeah, okay. He left Hartford in 97. He'd be more of a pronger guy, probably.

Yeah, he'd be a pronger guy. It's game time presented by Bet 365. Visit the app for latest odds and see why it's never ordinary at Bet365 Mr. 19 plus Ontario only Please play responsibly Um

God I gotta look at the J's stuff again here Gotta find a way to get back into this Um strikeouts Pro Tani how many That's a good question What if he doesn't quite have his stuff That'd be nice I just don't like he's good

He's clearly elite But I just I only The only guy I truly fear is Yamamoto When they started warming He was going in last night Yeah when they were warming him up I was like anyone but that and they

Dave Roberts told Tehran Verduci that he was going to go to a position player in the 18th inning you guys would probably snoring for that apparently that he told he's like oh I'm going to go to a position player if this gets to the 18th inning of course he didn't do that Yamamoto has won four or five

championships before he came across like he's a champion like he's like pedigree pedigree like one of the greatest in the history of Japan like unbelievable anyways the game tonight again Jay's huge dogs. They are plus 170 on the money line tonight.

Minus 205 for the Dodgers. They are sending Shohei Otani to the hill. Shane Bieber, whose brother, Justin, was in the front row yesterday, looking incredibly tired. Why doesn't he wear that stupid jacket to the game last night that he wore behind the Leaf Bench? And the World Series MVP odds are rather silly right now. Show you, Donnie is minus 320 to win the World Series MVP.

Alejandro Kirk and Vladimir Guerrero Jr. are both tied at 10 to 1. If the Jays win, Kirk's a – I love Kirk. Kirk has been unbelievable. If the Jays win, Kirk is the man for me. And tonight is – what's the Frozen Frenzy? Is that what it's called? Yeah, we should mention that.

Every NHL team plays today. So put together at 16-team parlay. So there's a lot that play 20. 28 of them would play on a lot of nights. But this is all of them. Oh, okay. Super exciting. So I would say the highlight games are Vegas is in Carolina to take on the hurricanes.

Vegas is plus 125 in that one. As I scroll a little further down the list here, Utah in Edmonton to take on the mammoth. That'll be a good one. The Utah, the Uton. How are we doing? Mammoth are plus 125 underdogs in that game. Devil's aves. And later on at 11 p.m. boys, it's Sharks and Kings.

Kings are minus 2 10 favorites in that game. Anyways, that was game time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for latest thoughts and see why it's never ordinary at Bet365. It's a 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. All right. In a few minutes after the break. All right.

We should. I'm going. Okay. I'm going. I just wanted to tee up Eric Francis. I thought you were about to start something else before we went to break. No. No, you're the producer.

Yep. Eric Francis, senior columnist with SportsNet. We'll stop by, help us tee up what we'll see out of Calgary tonight. 6 p.m. More after these words. Everything you need to know about the Raptors and the biggest stories around the NBA. Smith and Jones. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A reminder of this hour of Real Kippin-Borne brought to you by Bet365. Nick Kippreels, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. Now joining us, Eric Francis, senior columnist analyst with Sportsnet out of Calgary as we get set with the Calgary Flames and the Toronto Maple Leafs. Eric, how are you, pal? I'm good. How are you boys doing? Good. We got you on Zoom.

you're all set uh you okay with the 6 p.m start time does that get you ready for the jays tonight yeah it gives us a look i got a right after the game so nice backdrop to have the world series going and uh i have no problem with them moving up i think it's pretty savvy of the league to do it the leaps to do it and uh it you know it's amazing today down at the rink for the morning skate the flame skated at 930 which is rare when a team will skate that early but they wanted to get it in. All anybody talked about was how many innings did you last? Like, you go around the dress room,

Craig Brubay started his press conference, everybody. How many innings did you last? I didn't expect anyone with the game today to say that they saw the whole thing, but I suspect a few guys snuck the whole thing in. Yeah, no, absolutely. What about yourself? How many, how did you get in?

You know, I saw the whole thing, and I was in a bar watching it with friends, and then came home about midnight. You know what? It brought back memories of when I was, kid with a little transistor radio under my pillow listening to Buffalo Sabres broadcasts that's a lot of years ago but you know I was there with my phone trying like heck not to fall asleep watching it on my phone as opposed to the TV in my hotel here at Toronto that's really cool Eric the Toronto Maple Leafs are coming off back to back games against Buffalo I don't think a lot of people were really impressed overall with with their look in those two games Buffalo had a feel of maybe being a a bottom feeder this year. The standings suggest that Calgary is the bottom feeder,

not the Buffalo Sabres. Yet I think probably Calgary is a better team than Buffalo if I was to pick one, but it doesn't reflect in the standing. So tell me what kind of team that the Leafs will face tonight against a Calgary team that's clearly struggling in the standings. Yeah, you'll find a desperate team that's trying to save their season. crazy to say 11 games in, but, you know, I would describe that their playoffs, their hopes are done. I mean, you lose eight in a row to start the season. It's time to go to plan B. But

they're desperate. They played really well their last four games. They only have one win to show for it. And they're starting to get back to what got him into that position last year, where they were just one point short of the playoffs, which is outwork everybody they play, you know, four check the heck out of them, and get timely goaltent. They're a big goal to attending and timely goals. So that's their recipe, just like it was last year, no surprises. And so I do think the Leafs have their handsful tonight with, you know, a pretty hungry team right now.

Yeah, not an easy team to take points off, even though teams have taken points off them. I know they've had a pretty hard schedule too. You know, I saw an article you wrote today, Nazim Kadri was featured. You know, the Flames don't have a ton of high-end offensive talents. He leads a team last year in points. This is a weird season for Cadres. The team's not looking great. He's got a no move that's only to 13 teams.

You mentioned the Leafs. There's some other. What are your thoughts on where Cadre is at? Well, I agree with you. It is weird because look, all these rumors about cadre being traded to Toronto or whatever over the summer and they happen every year. I get it because he's a desirable player that would be an incredible second line center for any team.

He's a first liner in Calgary and probably a couple other teams. But, you know, at $7 million a year, it's actually pretty good value. at this point in time, the way the cap's going for a second line center, there was never any chance to Calgary Flames were going to trade him anytime soon because he's their best players straight up. He had 35 goals last year. He's a real leader. He's been a mentor to the young guys.

Like he's exactly what you want and need for a team that's scraped to try and get into that last playoff spot. However, like I said earlier, if the season is indeed over, like I think it is, I think you go to Plan B and all bets are off. There's still three years left on his deal. there's still tremendous value. You could still trade them a year or two from now and still get a good value for them.

But with Gavin McKenna coming up at a pretty strong draft and the Calgary Flames having to rethink everything because of their terrible start, I wouldn't be surprised if he was put on the table pretty soon as trade bait because I do think he can land you at least a first rounder amongst other things. You're watching and listening to Eric Francis, senior columnist, analysts with Sportsnet based out of Calgary.

So I want to talk a little Dustin Wolf here. Steve Aliquette on earlier, we talked about Wolf, but just overall, just what you've seen so far, you know, he had the amazing year last season that led to a huge contract and then a lot was played out nationally with the I did my job comment and how did it play out locally in the Calgary area in terms of what he said and where he is right now with his game. Okay, we'll start with the comment. I think it was like I'm not being a homer here. I think it was grossly unfair to have him pilloried by people who said that he was being selfish or throwing his teammates under the bus. The question was, you know, what does it feel like to see your team,

you know, generate so many offensive opportunities, but never bury it. And they just lost their eighth in a row. And he just kind of shrugged. He said, it sucks, but I can't generate offense. What he was trying to say, I do believe, was, you know, look, I can only control what I control, and that's goal-tending. So I don't worry about the offensive side. That's not my department. But I get how that can be misconstrued as a selfish comment. Like, you know, I got my part.

What about you guys doing your part? It was a young man's mistake. I think Codry said it best when he said that. And it was addressed by the team because they didn't love it when they first saw it. He explained what he meant by it and they moved forward. He hasn't been great either. And I think that compounded the criticism he got locally from people. people because they said, look, yeah, your job is to stop the puck

and you haven't even been doing that. So he's been a lot better of late. Like I said, last three or four games, you know, but we've only seen glimpses of the dominance that he exhibited throughout last season when he was, you know, called her trophy finalist. So he seems to be back on track of late, though. Eric, is there a hesitance for the Calgary Flames to flat out, bottom out? Like, I know that you've got the new building coming in a couple of years,

but this McKenna thing looms pretty large. I know you want some people to come to the buildings, but it looks pretty good here to tank. I don't disagree, but take it up with ownership. This is an ownership group in Calgary that's very much opposed to bottoming out. And I've told you guys several times. I use the term high build.

It's a hybrid rebuild, one foot in, one foot out. And you're always trying to make the playoffs, but you're also trying to rebuild at the same time. I get it as an owner. You're trying to fill the building as much as possible. But in today's NHL, you guys know, it's a star-driven league and if you don't have stars, you get left behind

and that's where the Calgary Flames are right now. So this might be a real opportunity being forced to kind of look at this season in a different lens and they may just have to take a couple steps backwards, not bottom out particularly but at least this year alone,

I do think there's a chance that they can finish bottom five, which is I think exciting for a lot of people in Calgary. Eric, we just had a conversation on the Pittsburgh Penguins who are seven and two and one, if I'm not mistaken, and there's some games that I look and I see a lot of empty

seats. Do you believe that if in fact, you know, Calgary stays where they are in the standings here and they get rid of all their key pieces including cadry, that you know, they would run the risk of some empty seats or would would the fan base

still be there and support them and say, yeah, I'm on board? You know, it's a great question. I do think it will be a tough sell, you know, at times this year, if they, you know, stay near the bottom. Although, you know, people are very excited about Matt Bay Gridden is a first rounder who really kind of showed really well in camp and started the season with the team. He's down in the minors now ripping it up.

Everyone loves to see Dustin Wolf. Zane Perak is, you know, the most exciting prospect of Flames have had in many, many years. You know, there does become a point, you guys remember it in Toronto, when people are showing up to see these young guys and see what the future looks like at this point in time. So I think it'll be tough and they won't have a full building at times this year,

but I also think there's a segment of the fans that appreciate, because it is a good hockey market, appreciate the youngsters and giving them a chance to run with it. And then the last thing is people love the fact that this is like the hardest working team out there. And you get some marks for that and people want to show up and cheer that on.

What are your thoughts on young Zane Perak and what he is going to be this year as he tries to become what? Well, he's trying to become an everyday NHL. So far, so good. He didn't play the first couple of games. They wanted to shield him from McDavid and company right off the bat. He was a real adventure, the first handful of games in his own zone,

and he'd admit that. He didn't know where to go. He didn't know what to do. It's a work in progress defensively. Offensively, they've now got him running the top power play unit. He snaps it around very, very well. and looks very impressive and poised. It's just a balance of trying to figure out

how to play that defensive side of the game so he's not a liability. Long term, guy's a superstar. He's going to be a superstar in this league and he's going to be a dominant defensive player, probably top five or ten in scoring every year amongst defensive. But I really believe he's got that sort of IQ and offensive ability.

But as you guys know, if you can't play defense, you can't play the minutes you need, they've got to try and bury you. Eric, they say, misery loves company so you guys are okay watching the oilers at you know 500 right now there's nothing that warms the soul in a cold winter's day in southern alberta than a northern alberta team struggling to some degree but look we've seen this act so many times it's false hope for calgary fans because the oilers are notoriously slow starters nobody in

calgary has any doubt that eventually they're going to figure it out and they're going to win a million games in overtime, and they're going to be right near the top of the table when it matters most. So I don't get too excited, but their struggles are very much celebrated in Calgary. That rivalry continues, boys. Yeah, well, it is fascinating to watch. I saw McDavid's at one goal and minus four when I checked. I don't know if you've been watching if it's like a weird start of the year or what's going on

or if it's just a little glitch here, a little hiccup? Yeah, I mean, I do think it. that Stanley Cup hangover even though you're, you know, is there such thing as a hangover for the finalist? I guess so because they've done it the last couple of years. So I yeah, look, they'll figure it out. They got a pretty strong personnel. They got

Zach Hyman coming back within the next two or three weeks. Look, that, that, and Bouchard has been, you want to talk about an adventure in your own zone. You know, he should know better. But that, that is actually

the focal point for that team. Next time you have people on from Edmonton, have spec on or something. You know, they'll just talk about what an absolute tire fire that season has been for him so far. He's really struggling to figure it out. Puck dropping a little over two hours, Eric, so we'll let you get ready, man. Thanks for doing this. Cheers, boys. We'll talk soon.

Thanks, Eric. Appreciate it. That is Eric Francis. Does a great job covering the flames for us on Sportsnet. It's going to be a hardworking hockey game tonight. That flames team is just talk about. We're going to have a direct off tonight. Direct.

So they are better than Buffalo, in your opinion? I think they are more veteran, positional, hard work, forecheck. Buffalo, to me, is more talented. They're all over the map, but they're not as organized. That Tage Thompson will probably be on Team USA this time, I would imagine. Yeah, I think so, but yeah, there's his first two goals of the year, right? Was it? I think so.

Slow start, but I think he'll be there. Well. So you think the Leafs... I think there's a lot of teams that have... just don't look great, but like, I mean, a lot. Yeah. So the Leafs clearly have not hit any type of level yet that you go, okay, now I see it.

Yeah. But there's 15, 20 teams that we can say that about. You know what stuck out to me, though, is I'm watching Ottawa win 7-1-7-2 in their last two games. And, you know, people are panicking in Ottawa about what they are and whatever. there hasn't been a night this year for the Leafs where they just look better or they're just like God that was they were the better Even Nashville no

Not a single game where you're like God the Leafs just they were just the better team You know when they wasn't happened yet You know what the game they actually looked the best in I think was the Detroit game The second Detroit game Where they filled in the Red Wings and Camp And they were up

Yeah they were up no they tied it late And then No but they got up to an early good start Weren't they up to nothing? No I don't I think the Red Wings were up. The Red Wings were up. I can't remember now.

And then they scored with like 25 seconds left to end the game. The Red Wings did. So that was probably the game that they looked the best in and they end up losing it. So they looked the best in a 3-2 loss to a non-playoff team. Correct. Gotcha. Well, maybe I have a non-playoff team this year. Yeah, yeah, that's fair.

Austin at least looks a lot more engaged this past week, last weekend against Buffalo. This is another thing where he did look engaged and I thought he's been playing better. They've had more ozone time. But I don't think he has a two-point game this year, if I'm not mistaken. Oh, yes. He scored twice against Nashville with the empty netter. Yeah. But other than that, it's all goal here, assist there, goal here, assist there.

Like, I understand the top line, Bobby McMahon and Nick Robertson aren't maybe your prototypical top line guys in the NHL, but Austin should get one or two in the power play here or there, grab a five-on-five goal, three-point night, team wins by three. Like, can that happen one of these nights? Every team outside the playoff picture in the east has eight or nine points. Is that accurate? Yes, correct. Like there's just, it's a malaise below the playoff picture.

Yeesh. Yeah. So, I don't know. I think it's just so early. I do catch myself being like, okay, it's, you know, I've probably had this very similar panicky thought every single October with this team. Yeah. Where it's just like they always start badly.

It is funny, though, every single team that has down to eight points, 10 points get you in playoffs. So every team is a win from playoffs right now. But, I mean, didn't, I feel like we've had such. similar conversations with this team every single year. But they haven't looked like this, I don't think. I agree that we have had this conversation. I pretty much remember last year being like, are we sure?

Oh, yeah? I don't know. I'm with Kiff. I just don't remember anything anymore. Yeah, that's true. We've had so many conversations about this team. It's like it's hard to remember what we did. It's circular.

As long as you kind of hang in there, they'll always, for a lot of teams, I think, you get the benefit of the doubt still. And it may continue for another week and a half. Yeah. Yeah. But not much longer. No. We have a clip from Craig Bruby setting up the flames tonight.

Why don't we listen to, what does Craig think about their opponent tonight? He thinks they're sick. All right. Clip four, please. Well, nothing's changed over the last couple years of my opinion with this team. Like they're obviously a hardworking team. You know, they compete extremely well. And they create, they do create a lot of odd man rushes this team.

They do things quickly. And again, you know, for me, our team, we've got to focus on our game. We've got to focus on our rush defense tonight. But in my opinion, let's get to their blue line tonight, like for me. Let's work that blue line. Let's get pucks deep. Let's get on the forward check. Let's make it that type of game.

Let's make it a difficult game. You know, and then their goalie's been extremely good over the last couple of years. You know, we're going to have to compete to put the puck in the net. So if the Leifes were, like, opening night against the zigzags, he'd be like, God, they got a lot of skill. They, you know, those guys slug bud lights with the best of them. Like, those guys are just, they're really tough competitors. There's no team, he was saying about that.

That was the Sheldon Keith staple. We don't see, you're here, Ruby, you do that quite as much. Yeah, those zigzags, they're great in the lot. Like, God. The best that you thought that the Leifes looked this season, they lost six three to Detroit. That was when they looked at one. worst. That was the first of the two games. They played the back-to-back. Oh, you thought they were

better in Toronto? In Toronto? They were really good. Really in Toronto. I thought their best look was that first period in Detroit when they went up to nothing. So we're picking points of the season. Like, they haven't looked great at any I thought it was the seven-minute segment against the, you know, it's like, oh. There's a stretch in Nashville where

I didn't touch the puck. The Preds couldn't touch the puck. By the Bruby liked their rush chances of the flames. I got them at 30th according to sports logic and And rush chances. Don't zig-sake. So if they don't have a third man highs because they were like 30th. Yeah.

Maybe that's it. Not worried about it. All right. I need scores, boys. Which sport? Both. Okay. All right.

I just said I want the Leafs just win one going away. Five to two win for the Leafs. You know what? Let's just, we had matching five two Leafs and Blue Jays wins one night this year, I believe. I'm going to do it again. A pair of five twos. I'm trying to be Peter positivity. You haven't tried.

a second in your life you liar in the world series i've been positive i've been positive in the world series spring you got hurt yesterday and you said our season's over oh me oh oh i mean it's true i saw the bubbles pop up and i was like here it comes i i just i don't know i'm running out i'm running out i'm running out of steam they do it commit to picking a loss let's see it coward can't do it least win jays win don't know the score all right that's good by me But I think Stolars is due for a 1-and-under game. Okay. So 3-1, 4-1.

The last-place team in goals 4-per-game is the Calgary Flames. They average two goals per game so far this season. Boy, they're just beating it to a square two per game. Yeah, you might as well be playing with a chunk of cement out here. Broom ball sticks. All right, all 32 teams on board tonight. What do we call it again? The Frozen Frenzy.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. More importantly, first pitch on SportsNet. 530 Hockey Central, David Ambert, Justin Boren, Sam Cousinino. We're going to tee up all the action. Please watch Lee's talk tonight for me and my boyfriend. Yes.

Please. Please win. Please win. Our thanks to Steve Aliquette in the first hour and Eric Francis. Great night. Sports. Go, J's go. Do not change the channel.

Sportsnet all night long. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. The Real Kippin-Born Show.