Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Steady in Net

Episode Date: December 19, 2024

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne look back on the Leafs' 5-3 win over the Dallas Stars. They discuss Joseph Woll's stellar effort, the Leafs' defensive resilience, the team calling up Matt Murray, the third line's big night and a rough start for the 'MNM' line. Later, The Athletic's Josh Kloke (31:02) dives deeper into the Leafs' goalie situation without Anthony Stolarz, Woll's opportunity in the interim, Murray's recent play in the AHL and whether Stolarz's injury history has shaken his faith in the goaltender. Finally, he weighs in on the loaded-up top line, Auston Matthews' play since his return from injury and the sustainability of the third line.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

it is the real kipper and born show we are live on sports at 590 the fans for step 360 it's sports step plus four to six eastern if you're ready for the fastest two hours in hockey, you are right where you need to be. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne. And that's it. No, we got Derek Brandeo. We got Jen Rolnick. Yep.

Pushing all the right buttons. We do. And we have producer Austin Mackey in for our Sammy McKee, who is home with snot running down his nose as we speak. He's fragile. He's a little fragile right now. He's like the rest of the Leafs. So he went out and played for like four days,

and he can't pay the fiddler. Yeah. You know, I actually had a captain in university. I was a freshman, he was a senior, and I went out drinking with the old guys one night and I couldn't make practice the next day. I just physically couldn't do it. And I remember him saying,

if you want to be out with the big dogs, you can't be pissing with the puppies in the morning. Yeah, okay, lesson learned, you know. But you get old, your immune system can't handle the party and, you know. I do remember one practice uh in hershey where we went out the night before and practice and then john paddock was our head coach then and he calls us in and he's absolutely livid at what he is witnessing So we're around the penalty area. Yeah.

Right? And I need to lean on something really badly at this point because I cannot stand on my own two feet. And I lean on the boards, but the gate is not closed, and I go thump. Oh, come on. Maybe one of the most embarrassing moments. Trying to not draw attention to yourself and just put the spotlight right

on your back. Double down. Everything's great. He's legitimately injured. He's sick. He came in yesterday. Give him credit. He's sick as can be. He's, you know, he's. He came in yesterday. Give him credit.

Is Gen Z the laziest generation? Okay, that's the best way. That's the best way I can describe Sammy McKee. He's not us. Nah, you know, he's still young. We're working on him. But we'll have some fun anyways. We got some great guests lined up. Joshua Cloak from The Athletic will join us

and we'll discuss what we saw not only last night out of the Toronto Maple Leafs in a win over the Dallas Stars, but what we can look forward to short-term and long-term. So that's Joshua Cloak in about 28 minutes. Ed Olchuk, STNT, friend of the show, former New York Ranger. We'll get his thoughts on what's happening in New York at the top of the hour. And then Eric Francis as well from Sportsnet.ca. So jam-packed, JB.

But as they say, just you and me, kid. Well, there's no shortage of things to discuss from last night's game. The Leafs get a 5-3 win despite i don't know i don't want to say they got heavily outplayed but the first period was pretty lopsided um you know i i guess do you want to start with was wool the number one reason for you you know i have to think that if you're going to talk about the number one reason. I mean, as solid and as good Joseph Wall was, if you want to start again with the number one reason, I'm like, hey, Jake Ottinger.

Yeah, okay, good. Right? Good one, yeah. Jake, buddy, you're supposed to be contending on a Stanley Cup kind of caliber team here. That is not the goaltending. Did it end up being four goals on eight shots? Does that sound accurate?

It was four goals and eight shots at one point. I don't know if he got any more. They kept him in and took him out after two. A 500 save percentage. I mean, can you win with a 500 save percentage i don't think you can't yeah the the robertson one particularly stinky uh domey one not awesome the mcmahon one pretty bad yeah so not a great showing in the end goaltending is the difference i just gotta say it is nice covering the toronto maple leafs when they're on the right

side of these goalie nights because we did some years there where it was like they should have won, they were the better team, they outplayed them, they can't get a win. Here it's like, I don't know if they, they didn't necessarily deserve to lose. They played a pretty decent road game after the first period. But the goaltending is the reason it happened. The reason they get two points.

So what you're saying right now is if we include the playoffs the next 65 70 games should balance out all the bad years is that what you're telling me i would take it and i think lee said would have all the balancing came in april and may just give us all those ones back then so um yeah we do have craig bruby do you want to do start with the overview or just go right to the goaltender let Let's just do the overview first, and then we'll get into Joseph Wall and then what could look much different in the net as early as tomorrow night for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Our first Kippers Clipper of the day belongs to Craig Berube. Well, the goalie was good, for sure.

I mean, I thought that, you know, we responded on goals, you know. Our third line responded and tied it up. They had a great game, I thought. Overall, I just thought, you know, puck play and, you know, decision-making at times wasn't great tonight by our team but you know we found a way to win our goalie was really good and um you know we did what we had to do okay finding a way to win uh seems to be an ongoing theme yeah and they do and the one thing that stands out to me is like and this i was getting this text as the

game was going on but like when they get up they've blown the lead at least the fewest leads in the nhl they can shut it down you know so i think that's part of finding a way to win is if they get a lead even if they don't deserve it they're kind of able to shut it down hang on they didn't used to be able to do that just do your your job. No, and it has to, your first inkling is that it has to be a good sign. It's not one where you want to keep going to the well on.

No. And you can appreciate the great goaltending that you're getting, but it has to do a lot with not only just great goaltending, but I don't know if it has to be led by Chris Tanev. It's still hard to get to the Toronto Maple Leaf net, even if they're scrambling in their own zone.

Yeah, they had some comment last night from someone, and it might have been Neil, it might have been someone like that, talking about Tanev when he was with Dallas. They went three playoff rounds last year, if I'm not mistaken, and Tanev got the matchups of Eichel in one round, McDavid and Dreisaitl in another, and McKinnon in another round. Like, and he handled those matches pretty decently. Like, this guy is as good as it gets when it comes to playing against the top of the top.

So that's a huge change for them for sure. Okay, let's go to Craig Berube on Joseph Wall and the effort that he gave him last night in Dallas. Well, it's really important. You know, he was great tonight. We needed him to be really good against a real good team at home. They got a good home record, you know, they're hard to beat. So we needed him to be good and he was i mean that's so but it's uh you know it gives our team confidence to um you

know go it plays a lot into it didn't love the dodonov one but whatever you know right yeah and early and good shot yeah good shot but early and early. And when you're looking like you're not ready to start a period, you're thinking, okay, is this the start of, it's going to just be a tough night, but it doesn't phase them. No, and I'll tell you, so at that time, I went and bet on Dallas. After the first period, I was like, the Leafs have no shot. They were getting pumped in the first period. And then what changes it?

They go down 2-1, and I'm like, you know, licking my chops. Not that I want the Leafs to lose. It's a happiness hedge. Either the Leafs win or, you know, I win some money. Anyway, Rupe Hintz, 2-1. They have the lead. He has a breakaway chance to kind of go up 3-1 and pull away in Dallas. Great breakaway save.

They go back the other way. Domi shoots on the net. It's 2-2. 15 seconds later, Robertson scores. All of a sudden, it's 3-2. Like, that's Joseph Wall not getting rattled by the one he gave up staying in it, and huge save for them. Yeah, yeah.

I got to admit, watching Joseph Wall, though, this is me. I don't know if it's you or any other Leaf fan, but there's always a sense of is he going to get up? You have that too? But you know, it's not like Samsonov. Remember Samsonov used to shake

it out after everything. Yeah, there's no drama involved in that. I think for Leaf fans, it's just the way There's no drama involved in that. Yeah, we'll not do that. It's just... I think for Leaf fans, it's just the way it is. Oh, this is uncomfortable.

I made a comment, I don't know, maybe three or four weeks ago that perhaps the Leafs could... The goaltending depth has never been better, right? And perhaps they can use one of them as a bargaining chip. But, like, I don't know if they can. You need them all. Collect all four. It's just the way it is that you don't know if any,

at any given point, that any of these guys are going to disappear. They do have a history there. And how can you move one of them and we'll include matt murray who uh all indications are will be called up and and start tomorrow night in buffalo he'll actually so you've been saying since the start of this year so actually in april last year maybe i'm not a mary's jb i'm not a guy to go find tape. Go, Jerry. Run it back. I would like to see if we could find, at some point last year, when I told you guys that Matt Murray's career could not necessarily be over with the Toronto Maple Leafs, despite having double hip surgery.

And you guys looked at me like I had three heads. No, I'm going gonna show you my reaction which i think was like and it was not about yes not believing you or not about believing it just was i had seen him play for the leafs yeah he had looked rigid and stiff and also you know very injury prone so to me it's like do we want to go through this again? And so now he has a surgery, right? Like a pretty serious surgery. He apparently is freed up.

Two of them. Two surgeries. Two hip surgeries. Okay. Had both of them done. God. And obviously moving well enough that he's lighting up the American league. Let's see.

Stats are somewhere at nine 31 and eight games in the American league. So let's add a shout out last night. And so to Stanley Cups. He's only 30 years old, if I'm not mistaken. And he's 9-31 in the American League coming off a shutout. Okay, let's see. I mean, he's earned it, right? I mean, I'm at the point where I'm no longer looking at Leafs going,

show me the guy with potential who could be this whatever. It's like, give me the guy who's done it, who has been in these moments before and has proven he can do it. I'm ready for it. I'm just surprised to hear they would call him and he would start just like immediately. I don't think that decision was necessarily made until after they felt comfortable enough of watching him last night.

So there was the thought of Hillbilly. And I'm going to call him a Hillbilly again. I can't get that word out of my mind right now. Hillbilly is great. All right. The Hilda Beast. Yes. I think there was a thought of perhaps maybe squeezing one more start out of him and leaving Matt Murray with another start on the weekend.

But I think last night they felt comfortable enough to say, with his experience and he's feeling it and he's feeling good, just do it now. Yeah, you know, I'm torn because Hildeby has been okay in his starts with the Leafs, and I feel like I'd like toildeby has been okay in his starts with the Leafs and I feel like I'd like to see him get more experience it seems like he's going to be a part of the organization I like the idea of him playing but it's a tight battle for the top of this division if you feel

like Murray can give you a bit more and if you're Hildeby looking at Murray I think you're going I get it like he's won he's killing it in the American League he. I think you understand why Matt Murray would get the opportunity ahead of you, would you not? All right, let's go to Craig Berube on Matt Murray. Yeah, for sure. And we'll look at things, you know, for sure. But that's encouraging. That's great for him and the Marlies.

And, you know, this guy's got a lot of experience, and he's won. So, you know, like I said, we're going to go look at everything and make some decisions. Yeah. Yeah, I give Matt Murray some credit here for looking at where he was last year and know that it went really ugly in Ottawa to the point where, you know, he's kicked to the curb basically. Yep. Gets traded to Toronto in a trade that I know at the time you weren't too happy about.

No. And many others. Like if he's not good enough for Ottawa, how can he be good enough for the Maple Leafs? Right. It comes in early, much like what we experienced this year with, can he stay healthy?

It's a standard question now for the Toronto Maple Leaf goaltending. It's not, are they any good? It's, can they stay healthy? All of them now. It just seems like they're completely blanketed over that term. They've cornered the market on fragile, talented players. The answer was no, Matt Murray, you can't. You go into this scenario where your season's written off

and end up with these major surgeries, or majors they sound when you're talking about hips, and yet... And yet. And yet, he wants to come back, knowing that if he does come back and if the Leafs presented him an opportunity to come back, that you are no longer seen as a NHL goalie you're gonna have to start with the Marlies and work your way back up and

that I would think for a two-time Stanley Cup champion would be a kicking the nuts with a speed skate but I also think that that changes my perception of him, not just as a player, but as a person. Someone who's willing to swallow the Buckleys there, the bad-tasting medicine, and say, tastes bad, but it works. You know, all right, if it's going to get me back where I want to be, he's riding the bus in the American League.

That's the interesting part, is because you're watching watching now coming out of training camp, right? You leave training camp. You go to the Marlies. You watch Wall and Stolarz stay. You watch Stolarz looking like George Vezna up until a week ago. Joseph Wall, of course, gets hurt early but comes back, and you're like, there's no, where would I ever think that I could get back in again?

Yeah. Aktyomov's doing great, and Hildeby's a top prospect, and it's tough to find your way in. Here we are, game 32 32 ish whatever it is and now yeah maybe he's up for four weeks maybe he's up for the rest of the year maybe he goes back down and and continues to to light it up in the american hockey league and maybe he is in a position or maybe the leafs don't feel like he's in a position to move him, but at least he has turned himself into an asset again. He's playing for his career, right?

Like, look around the league. Teams are desperate for a guy with some experience who can play 6'5", 220, and as you mentioned, the Cubs. So he holds appeal. If he can come up to the Leafs and play five good games for them, I think you have a real asset on your hands, but you might need him because your goalies are made of paper mache. And Hildeby has come down to earth a little bit,

I think, with the lack of experience and a lot of probably things going on in his head. So much weight on a few games, though, you know? Well, that's the Toronto Maple Leaf way, though. There's just... There's the rest of the league, and then there's that media hype of having every game feel like it's almost game seven

for some of these guys. And, you know, I think the kid did well when he was in there, or as well as can be expected, but there is a look at him that says, you're not an NHL goalie just yet. And I think that plays into the fact that he's not necessarily getting the start tomorrow night. He also, he needs to play hockey.

It's, you know, it's Christmas here, and he started nine games this year. Six for the Marlies, three for the Leafs. Like, that's not great for him because they're getting Matt Murray starts. They're getting Akhtimov starts. So, Hildeby needs to goaltend. He's 23 years old and 6'7". He needs to play goal.

So, wherever it is that they have him, best for his development to get back in the net in the American League. I would agree with that. You want to listen to McMahon talk about Joseph Wall's play last night? Yeah, sure. Let's go to that. What it always is, it's just composure. It feels calm, cool back there. We trust him all the time.

Technically always very sound. Looks like he's square to the shot. I don't think he's given up a lot to shoot at. He did great back there. Also, he showed his athleticism on a couple saves there, which saved us a game. I mean, healthy wool is a top 10 goalie in the nhl i think yeah like he's so steady solid reliable like the way he plays the

puck too good pass or pass it hard so yeah all good things they get picked up by the third line last night yeah and we had a we had a pretty good conversation yesterday about them and everything that Berube said about wanting them to attack and take it to the net. And Max with another goal that looked a lot like a goal scorer's goal. Right? That one did for sure, yeah. So, good sign. You just kind of roll with him right now yeah you

offered jim nill nick robertson and i don't think he would he missed his chance yeah yeah and i don't think the leafs make that trade right no no they don't want that deal that's no good for them but like it is interesting like the debate about is that line sustainable usable playoff worthy whatever you think let's start with the coach, clip two, and then we'll follow up on that. Well, that's huge. I mean, that's secondary scoring, and I thought they were really good tonight, worked really hard.

You know, their reloads are great, and that's why they scored a couple goals is by reloading hard and breaking plays up and then, up and then attacking the other way. Yeah, that's fine. Played hard. A little bit of a water bug look, eh? They're just buzzing and scooting. Is it

wildly unreasonable to suggest that Nick Robertson could figure it out? It's just whether or not you believe in needing more size or you don't it's just it's it's a fine line like i i still do every once in a while see him getting bounced out around a little bit it's all you'll see that first and you will you will and it's not like players like that can't succeed we've seen them but it's just a matter of whether you believe that he can overcome it

and still find ways to be a threat and and and create that energy that third lines need to create i feel like i he's one of the rare people where I want him to play less physical. I do not want him to think he's playing Craig Berube-style hockey and run into people. I want him to play like Marner and Kane and Caulfield and small players who have a unique asset, in his case his shot, and just don't engage in the stuff that's going to get him hurt and expose him. And Max Domi needs to, and McMahon can do that. shot yeah and just don't engage in the stuff that's going to get him hurt and expose him and

max domi needs to and mcmahon can do that so two-thirds of that lineup or yeah well i mean mcmahon obviously is a physical presence he can do it domi has some edge some agitator he he knows how to play in traffic i don't think robertson really. I think he has a coach that's like, we need you to do this. Can they look like that playing 12 minutes, 14 minutes? Can Nick do that? I think Nick can. I can't help but think. Like, let's say I'm covering the Leafs in round one, and they're playing whoever in the first round.

Whatever, pick a team. And Robertson's on the other team. round one and they're playing whoever and in the first round could whatever pick a team and robertson's on the other team it just feels like he's a guy if he gets the the puck in a dangerous area you're worried about him so i don't know i still you know i said the what i say he scored he could score 20 what's he at four three two in a row baby three did he get hot i think he can yeah so are you are you turning a little bit more for nick now he's finding it a little bit yeah i am i am i i think that there's still a chance he's a 15 20 goal guy this year wow yeah that's uh if he plays what we got? 50 games to go? Under 50. Yeah.

Just under. 48, 49. Something like that. And you think he's got 15 goals in him? I do. I think he has 15 more goals to score this year. God, I hated saying that. It's okay.

But I do think that. So there it is. You called it at the beginning of the season. But here's the entertaining part. Am I in another front office somewhere dubious but is there some version of me who looks at him and says we could buy low on this guy and i think he has some scoring upside how low what's he worth to you now if you're the leafs right now when you think someone's

been watching him the last two games, what do you want? Well, the only reason I would consider him for a pick. A fourth rounder? No, a third. But the only reason I would consider him for a pick is that you would use that pick on whatever guy you're going to get at the deadline. You know, whatever you're talking about, a centerman or whatever. You know, you would, it's like savings.

You could put that into your asset savings account. Well, you got to make sure because at least when it's all said and done, you still have a guy that is adding depth to your organization. If someone gets hurt, you can step in. You better make sure that third is going to turn into something else and you don't sit on it. Well, if he can score 50 more, maybe you don't want to trade him at all. I don't know.

But we can't go to break without discussing the first line. Yeah, we still got some time. So, yeah, absolutely. So, it doesn't appear like they're breaking up according to practice lines. Good. That they're still together. Good. Willie Nylander, Matthews, and Marner.

So what did... First impressions. What did... First impressions is... Don't be too fancy. They stunk in the first, man. They stunk out loud. Matthews stunk.

But I know it pains you to say that. It does. Great hockey players. elite what is going on because i just don't see the power and i'll go to that first goal uh sam steel okay why does he not go to the inside okay and and like on so many times over his career, we've seen him not only catch him, but steal the puck off of him. And then that's what's always led to, hey, he's selkie material. He's a great 200-foot guy. All of that talk was based on how many times we've seen him steal pucks

in his own zone. I saw none of that. Yeah. I don't see, I don't see the, the, the, the,

the power and the oomph that we've seen in the past. And that's my first impressions of, of watching him. My thought last night. So it's like a miscommunication with McCabe. He's F three. And, you know,

if you're lively, you got a good pep in your step like you just take the inside track right and try to use your big body big frame good stick keep the steel to the outside but i thought he went he wanted to lift the stick kind of went behind him kind of hoping to and couldn't catch him and that to me was just like god he doesn't have that nitrous that burst of speed or the whatever that I'm used to seeing. You know, it's, I did think he kind of warmed up as the game went on, but there was, so that, to me, made their line look kind of rough at times. But I do, I think that line needs time.

I think when you have more complicated components, people who are, I think it takes some time. And even if you're not going to be line playoffs, which they're not, I think you need them to gain comfort with each other for when you need a goal. It's 3-2 in the third period and they're going to throw them together. Let them get a few games of reps in December.

And that third line bought them time for Willie to eventually shoot it in the net. But like, you know, it is their elite talent that they score. Marner makes a great stretch pass. Matthews floats a little sauce. Nylander tucks it in. Bob's your uncle.

You know, they can do that. But I do think they could use a little time to just figure out what's it like, where do these guys like to go, because they're going to be out there chasing games in the playoffs. Is there a real chance now that you just, we look at Matthews and go, whatever was bothering him, whatever kept him out for, what, nine games, is still there? That's my concern.

That's my concern is that he went and got magic potion injected into his vertebrae or whatever happened. We have no idea. But whatever happened, and now it's like yeah i'm not better and that's my worry not about december or january but like what do we need to do here to get the the matthews that we know he can be by april if that includes not playing for a month here so be it but wow right you're playing for the cup you're playing for playoffs you don't need him now if something's still going on i mean maybe i'm overreacting maybe he's had a couple

but he should have his cardio by now he's played enough hockey that he should feel fine right maybe he's just not in shape it's possible but i mean i'm throwing stuff out there right now but i thought that but now it's been... How many games have you played now? 10 games since he's been back? Even if he didn't do anything, he just played 10 hockey games, he'd be in shape. Yeah.

So... Yeah. Just doesn't seem to have any puck luck either, too. No, he posts all over the place. Which has been his trademark, is that he could just find ways to to to get open for split second and then boom it's gone well and like often he'll shoot a puck in the past that didn't seem that dangerous and it's just like oh it's in like the goalie just like oh wow caught him off guard yeah

this year his shooting percentage on wrist shots is eight percent last year was 18 percent so something on that wrist shot is not as effective for whatever reason. I'm still interested long-term if Marner and Willie at times, who both like to handle the puck, can breed off of each other. I'd like to see them play together. Like, they've never spent any extended time together with a different center even. It doesn't have to be Matthews.

But it doesn't seem, you know, like they, again, they still make plays because they're just players. But the big line and, you know, for the most part outside of, you know, the strength of the third line now is just, they still have trouble like moving the puck, right? And just. Who's that? The first line last night?

The Leafs in general for me still, right? I thought they moved it okay as the game went on. Tavares made a great play to solidify the win. Great effort. Their line, though. But they didn't look. Outside, Pacioretty killing someone else. They didn't look that great either.

They didn't get an even strength shot until late in the third period, that line. So they were reasonably ineffective. Yeah. Yeah. We do have a clip on the top line before we go to break. Let's just hear clip three for Ruby. Well, I mean, I know they got a goal and some chances and stuff. Just for me, I think they were off tonight a little bit,

like a lot of our guys were. You know, I don't think they had their best game. But, you know, we'll see. Josh is waiting for us. All right, we'll go to break here. When we return, Joshua Cloak, writer with The Athletic, covering the Toronto Maple Leafs. We'll get into what we saw last night

and what we may expect going into the Christmas break. That and more when we return to Real Kipper and Born. Hey, it's Blake Murphy. And I'm Matt Bonner. Join us weekday mornings at 11 as we break down all things Toronto Raptors. It's the Raptor Show on Sportsnet 590 The Fan. And wherever you get your podcasts. The Real Kipper and Born Show. All right, we got Joshua Cloak ready. Let's get right at it.

Josh, how are you? Have you picked out our gifts yet, Justin? And mine? I'm an XL. No, I'm an L now. I'm an L now. I used to be an XL. What happened?

What's the secret? Old age. That's it. I don't want anything to do with that secret then yet so uh outside of that um leafs look like they want to keep playing i'm not sure the break will do them any good they're fine like forget about the quality or the consistency man they just find ways to win and uh look no further than who's between the pipes yeah i mean you guys know like i feel like every time i come on i'm pumping joe wall's tires i'm a joe wall guy and i just think

that like this is such a massive opportunity for him to really prove for the first time hey i'm a number one goalie in this league. I can be trusted. Not just like I have the upside or the potential or the skill. I can be trusted. That's like the last question that he has to answer. But, like, he's got to answer, right? Like, can you be trusted to stay healthy? Gives up that first goal and you're kind of like, oh.

But then you make 36 saves against a very good dallas stars team um he's he's got a lot to prove right now and you look at in the past when he's kind of really been dependent on it's in the playoffs and they've been down in the series anyway this is real runway for him to put together stretchy games not necessarily steal back the net because i think the tandem thing works but like just put it to bed you know the injury stuff just put it all to bed and i thought last night was a really good first step towards really doing that so you're our programs marley's watcher which we appreciate i appreciate. What are your thoughts on Matt Murray over Dennis Hildeby, maybe? No, maybe.

No, maybe. Oh, it's a done deal? Yeah, it's a done deal. And here's why. You know, I was thinking this morning about how, like, when you look at guys that are right on the kind of the fringe of the Leafs lineup, right? Dennis Hildeby gets called up and right away, his first media veil, he looks tentative.

He's asked about his game with the Marlies and he essentially says, I got some stuff to work on. And you're like, wait a sec, dude, you're about to play for the Leafs here. And then I look at a guy and I was talking to him the other day, Phil Myers. Now, you can debate whether or not Phil Myers is a top six NHL defenseman, but he's in the same spot. He's kind of on the fringes.

And this guy just exudes swagger and confidence. He's like, I'm ready. I've been waiting. I'm ready to play right now. I'm excited. Let's go. And you're thinking about that, and you're like, yeah, one of those guys does seem like he'd steal an opportunity.

And I think we saw that with Dennis Hill to be a guy that for a variety of reasons, probably just isn't ready yet. And I think the Leafs saw what we all saw and said, you know what? The race at the top of the Atlantic is really tight. We can't afford to drop points here. Let's go with something that is a little bit more of a sure thing. And sometimes, too, when guys get sent down, when NHL guys get sent down to the AHL and they have to spend time there,

they want no part of it. And I'm not going to name names, but there's been a few guys with the Marlies, Met guys over the past few years that haven't really wanted to talk to the media and my understanding is they just stick to themselves that's not what Matt Murray has done he's bought in right he's riding the buses he's paying for dinners he's doing the duties he's accepting his fate and when you have that kind of attitude that mentality it's it can be reflected in your play, right? He looked great last night.

He hasn't looked exceptional, but he's looked good enough and he's done enough to deserve the chance to get called back up because this was always the plan all along, right? If someone gets hurt, Matt Murray is your number three. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if he starts tomorrow night in Buffalo. So, Josh, and I brought this up in last year's show where I said, don't be surprised if the Leafs go back and bring back Matt Murray after cleaning up his health issues.

And then JB started dry heaving on wasn't ready and we had to throw the break i had to go to colored bars on our tv show it was ugly it was ugly where where were you on the thought of actually with everything he was went through last year bringing him back isn't that just dumping in on the doubling and tripling and quadrupling down on the group here after failed attempts here so where where's your comfort zone with matt murray getting back in i don't know if i was dry heaving but i wasn't feeling good right i was going to i was going to the medicine cabinet for sure okay um because and and look i've kind of i i made my bed and i saw the way dennis hildeby played i'm a like you guys know i'm i'm a big give the kids a chance right

because that's what the marlies are for um and dennis hildeby was a fantastic goalie with the marlies last year uh goalies take time goalies take longer than forwards like look at joe wall like he was drafted the same year as austin matthews we're talking about austin matthews as a vet right joe wall is like hanging out with with matt nyes like he's hanging out with the rookies so these things take time i saw the the i saw bringing back matt murray as as an opportunity for the organization brad tree living to say you know what just as a human we know you've kind of been dealt a rough lot here let's give you another shot because organizations need that kind of michael hutchinson type they need that healthy kind of third guy that is comfortable just bouncing up and down. And like, you know, going, Matt Murray going, what he went through, like, that stinks.

That's really, really hard. So I saw it as a really good step, just again, as a human, for the organization to say, you know what, if you can prove to us you're healthy, we're going to give you a shot because all things being equal, you can step in and do a job. And like, even though I had Dennis Hill to be ahead of him on the depth chart, I was proven wrong. He doesn't look ready, ready yet, especially when the margins are so thin in the Atlantic, right? So I don't know.

It certainly hurt as someone who was playing, you know, team play your kids. But this is where they're not. The Leafs are not in the development business right now. And that's, I think, what's become pretty clear. And that's why they're turning to Matt Murray. I know JB wants to talk about the big line and Matthew's with you. But before we just get off the goaltending, the Stolarz injury, we know where you feel about Joseph Wall, but did Stolarz injury now completely change the management mindset

because we went into the season even prior to training camp thinking that it's Joseph Wall's net and Stolarz will be there to back him up. And then Stolarz goes a house on fire and gets hurt. But is the fact now that he's hurt and the history of the knees have come up and like where are you now moving forward, let's say, a month from now? Yeah, now I'm trying to like google remedies for dry heaving now i'm thinking about it now you're making me nervous that was always the concern like not just with like that that was the concern coming into the season with you know the leafs entire goaltending picture attending picture picture can they stay healthy um i i think the fact that this latest injury is

not related to past injuries is a good thing we don't know that no i i you try to take i'm i'm catching myself here i was about to say you try to take the Leafs and their injury stuff at face value, but that's been kind of a messy road to walk down lately. I think they had always wanted this to be – you're right. They had wanted this to be Joseph Wall's net. He still – it comes back to what I said before. He still has to prove that he can stay healthy too and that's kind of unfair to him but um no i i don't know if it's changed much right what does it change for you what does it change for you guys uh yeah it does change for me uh a little bit uh i'd rather

deal with joseph wall's injury history than stolarz stolarolarz makes me 10 times more nervous than Joseph Walls. Yeah, I think the thing that gets me with Anthony Stolarz, though, is like a lot about his injuries. Some of them, the second one in particular, was literally just a freak knee injury. Like he was telling me that, and it sounds strange, but like he was in his truck and his leg just turned and he was like, oh, that doesn't feel right.

Whereas I think with Joseph Wall, he literally, they had concerns about what he was doing in the off season. Was he taking, not was he taking care of his body in the right way, but were there things he could do to better prepare himself and his muscles his body you know in the game so maybe that's why i'm not as concerned i don't know it's injuries goalies it's it's funny it's not just goalies it's mcmahon and it's matthews and it's patch ready and there's like some concerns in this team oh I love it when it is functional. They're all day-to-day. Don't worry about it.

It's all day-to-day. That's so true, yeah. I don't know why you're getting concerned. It's day-to-day. Nothing to see here. Day-to-day. Day-to-day. So the big boys get thrown together

for a full hockey game. According to SportLogic, last time it had happened was in 2020. According to William Nylander, it had never happened for a full game before what are your thoughts on them finally trying it for a game and i don't know maybe it going imperfectly and what that means now i mean my thoughts are don't consult william nylander for for history no oh god that's a great point like you know william nylandander uh yeah anyway i don't like it i don't like it at all you know i

i think back to the the 2020 series against columbus where sheldon did it a few times and this he was trying to win games late but it always felt like a desperation play more than anything else that's what and i'm not saying that's what it was last night but like do you need to do this like what what what's your end game here because you're not going to do this for the rest of the season you're not going to do this in the playoffs when sheldon did it against the blue jackets is you know it was we're down we have to win these games to for for people to keep their jobs and that's the way it felt to me then and now like it's so if you're if you're down in game seven against whoever it ends up being this year maybe you you try it but i just think now i was about to say i i feel like it sets the rest of

the the four lines back but the third line last night proved me wrong. But, like, why? You're not going to do it in game one against Tampa. Why are you doing it now? What are you hoping to learn? What are you hoping to get that you wouldn't get otherwise? Are you trying to do it to give Matthew some juice? Because, like, let's call a spade a spade. It doesn't look like he's got it right now, right?

But there's other ways to do that. I think it sets the rest of the four lines back. I don't know. And I think the numbers kind of bear that out. Early in the show, we gave our thoughts on what we see from Austin. Tell us what you see. Tell us what's missing. Tell us where is the second best player in the world.

He looks like someone like me that's like, I've got a lot of Christmas shopping to do. I've got some stories to finish. Various parts of my body are hurting because I'm on the wrong side of 40. He looks like he's wearing a lot right now. Let's just get through this he looks like he he looks like he is is being pulled in different directions uh mentally and maybe that's too deep a read on it but i wonder if there's something nagging him uh injury like it just he he looked like he was slower than normal

last night i mean that the the back check on the one goal like doesn't that get other players benched for you know a few shifts right yeah like doesn't that effort doesn't that kind of effort get a fourth liner you know stapled to the bench for the rest of the period i i don't know um you would think like normally with scorers it's like once they get one the floodgates open. But he's being asked to do multiple different things. He's not just a scorer. It's an easy way, but sometimes like the right answer is the easiest one.

Like just looks like he's carrying a little something, some kind of injury or some kind of ache because he's not spry. And when he's not spry, it's very noticeable. Josh, we only got a quick minute here, but got to ask you about the third line and whether or not the last two games on the third line would give you the belief that all things being equal through the trade deadline, you could start them all together in the playoffs you could start that third line together

in the playoffs if you accept that defensively you might get caved in and you just better hope that's not a play that's really gonna happen i don't really want to start my playoff run with we may get caved in i would like yeah but then you hope that like max domey is his best self and him and nick robertson find the kind of chemistry that you think passers and shooters would have but no yeah like what do you what do you what do you expect like you're gonna tell me nick robertson doesn't scream defensive uh stability to me no but if you accept if you accept that you hope it gets you some goals at the other end, but again, Craig Berube doesn't strike me as someone that would be a lot of fun in Vegas.

He's not a gambler, right? So I don't know if it's going to stick. But if it builds Nick Robertson up, do it. Because he's hanging on for dear life, and don't know i like what's where's the trade value what what are you really gonna get from so you you're best off to me to just like keep trying to get a goal here and there out of them because like that that might be your only option i proposed to jim nill the other day just trade him for your brother straight up because uh jason ain't doing yeah a whole lot better

right now in Dallas. Why didn't I think of that? There you go. It was right there for you. Joshua, great stuff, man. Thanks for joining us. Really appreciate it. Yeah, take care, guys. Thanks, Cloak. Yeah. If Nick Robertson were to get traded, our show would have to

fold. We would have no contact. So, I think for no other reason, if you talk about the big three on the Leafs now, you could claim that that is the most expensive line in NHL history. Yeah, well, it is currently the most expensive one. So logically, it would carry out that ever. Ever. This is the most expensive line in the history of hockey.

In the history of the game which is uh i don't know 35 million dollars on that line does that sound right well for this year be more next year la histoire do hockey you better score some goals you better not get out scored two to one you got a name for the line no but i know the one that they proposed last night on the broadcast ain't gonna what is it what was that well actually? No, but I know the one that they proposed last night on the broadcast ain't going to stick. What is it? Well, actually, hold on. No, no, no.

I liked the one for the main line. Cosentino had M&M. The M&M line. Matthews, Nylander, Marner. M&M. M&M. Okay. I like it.

But he proposed calling the third line the remedy line, which I thought was not good. If one gets sick, then you got a green eminem and i everybody hates the green eminems well apparently uh she's gone back to be oh i'm listening to to derek apparently she's gone back to being racy the green eminem oh really yeah apparently okay all right um the the inflation line is that good for partner matthews and'll work on it. We'll work on it at the break. Okay. Outside of that, I think we solved nothing with the goaltending situation. No.

We know Josh thinks Wall's the guy. Yeah. Moving forward here. I mean, it will be interesting. Let's say Stolarz comes back and he's healthy and Wall's healthy like i i don't even know who would start game one i guess it's like see who plays better in the games before but wall is playing himself back into the 1a maybe so spot does matt murray love coming back knowing he's gonna play a horrible hockey club in buffalo or is it what is it like the worst

scenario? You're set up to fail, right? Like they're on a 10-game losing streak. That's what our boy Sammy would say. It's a loss tomorrow night. He's going to give up. I'm going to talk about it. I'm not going to be Sammy on that. There you go. Just like that. Our Leaf Edition hour. Gone.

But we've got another hour here to go. Eddie Olchuk. Edzo will join us in our national hour. Just give him a chance. Just give him a chance. Eric Francis. Eric Francis as well. So do not go anywhere. You are right where you need to be on the Real Kipper Inborn Show.

Back in a few minutes.