Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Stick a Fork in 'Em

Episode Date: February 27, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Toronto Maple Leafs' loss to the Tampa Bay Lightning. They discuss the disconnected start in what was framed as a 'must-win,' Auston Matthews' post-game comments about the team's lack of urgency, and why no one except Matthews and William Nylander should be safe at the trade deadline. Then, they discuss the Leafs' options for Morgan Rielly, what they could net in a Scott Laughton trade, the decision to scratch Easton Cowan in back-to-back games out of the Olympic break, and whether Craig Berube or Brad Treliving will be back next season. Later, the guys dip into the Leafs Line to answer your calls and questions! The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Let's get her going. It's Friday. Off the rails, baby, on the real Kippur and Born show. We're live on SportsSat 360. 590, The Fan in Toronto. Streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. Available, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and our wonderful followers on YouTube.

Nick Kiprios, Justin Borns, Sammy McKee, Jake the Snake Shultz, Derek Brandeo. Did I get it all right, Sammy? Perfect. You're flawless. Everybody's here and accounted for it. You read it perfectly. I don't know who's up to have.

You read it perfectly. That's for sure. You read it perfectly. All right. Toronto Maple Leafs. Speaking of off the rails. What a week, boys. Jeez, Louis.

Florida with nothing but a sunburn maybe. Somebody. We suck. Somebody. I hope so. I hope they got some sun along the way. They brought something back because they sure as heck didn't bring back any points. Tough first period.

Three nothing lead before you could blink and settle in. Your initial thoughts on last night and that particular start where they were down three nothing, outshot 166, I think, and obviously outchanced by a wide, wide margin. Sam, did you tweet something last night like, yeah, but let's see how they look at morning skate tomorrow to see if they're officially.

That was half with the game against Tampa. Okay. But it's like, okay, stick a fork time. All right. We got our conclusion. They're done. We said if they win two or three, no, no, no. No, no.

I want to get in all of that. But they are who we thought they were. I just want to get into that show. How can we explain that start? You want to know if I think they quit. I want to know why you think. because I love you for it too. Trust me, I'm not sticking anything in your face.

But you had a belief that they could come back and show much better and put on a better show. It was absolutely possible, yeah. So how do we explain as a group? Not just necessarily you, because I'm going to take a crack at this. No, no, no, I'm ready. How can you come out and be that flat, that disinterested in a must-win game?

I don't know. I said I'm ready. I respect that because I don't know either. I'm ready to have the conversation about possible reasons why, but I don't know. That was lifeless. I mean, no passion, no connectedness, nothing good to say. One word, Sammy, to you, why? It's been a popular one.

Disconnected. Because there's a disconnect between what the front office wants, from what the fans want, from what the coaching staff apparently wants and what the players look like they want. Like, that to me just is a team that, you know, regardless of what happened last night, if they had to won that game or they had to come out great, they know the season's over.

They're checked out. The coaching staff is trying to coach them up to win. Like, hey, guys, keep being desperate. We need you to work hard and be desperate. And they know it's over. And the only people that seemingly didn't know it was over until last night was the front office. and coaching staff.

The only thing I'll say that maybe is a little different from that is like, I don't see them not trying. First period is brutal. You know, well, I know it's a brutal period, but like I, you know,

I watched the whole 60 minutes and like, it's not like Nick Robertson's not trying or Stephen Lawrence isn't trying. I don't see Willie Nealander not trying. But, but they're trying looks different from other teams trying. But like, they're not, they don't look equal.

Well, yeah. So where I'm going with it is they're worse. I don't think they're not trying. I think they're that much worse than Florida. I think they're that much worse than Tampa. I think they're worse. I don't think it's like, hey, let's go out there and not care. How did it go from Atlantic Division champions?

Part of that was worse. Murky. Come on, please tell me. Are we talking about just one Mitch Marner? No. They're still got people in there that were. at division champions. I mean, first of it hurts.

The thing you mentioned hurts, but it doesn't hurt 30 points or whatever the difference is going to be. But part of last year was that nerds were being like, they're not as good as there are 108 points. Everything went right. They got incredible goaltending,

insane shooting percentage. Honestly, God, they got pretty incredible goaltending in last two games. They did. Yeah. I mean, it's not like those guys fell off the face of the earth. They look kind of the same.

I look today. They're 16th in the league in same percentage. They're dead average. Yeah. So they're not terrible to your point. It's not like that. I'm just dumbfounded. They have four different players on the roster from last year.

No Chris Tanev, no Marner. You know, like these, they already weren't great. And everything's kind of gone wrong this year. But still, last night, they're pretty healthy. Minas Tanev there. They kind of have what they were supposed to look like. It's a desperation game. Florida is two points behind them in the standings.

And so, yeah, like I said, I don't know why it looked as bad as it does, but I just think it's almost lazy of us to say they're not trying. I just think they're not very good. I think I don't think they're not trying, but I think it's human nature that when you're this far out of it and you're checked out and you're playing against a team that has historically owned you and they're playing hard. They just have three weeks off.

Yeah, but they like hockey, presumably. They just know it's done. It's just they're done. I think Mike Johnson last night on the telecast said they think they look tired. I know. He was trying to help. Mike Johnson pulled, they also broke out the halfway through the first period, the UFA board. I'm like, oh boy.

This is going to be a long game. They knew what was up. They were trying. I think it's very jarring to me or very concerning to me that going into last night, that is a team that is full, wholeheartedly trying to win. Like that thinks they are a team that has a chance to win. Yeah, whether the individual players you're saying,

but like the coach, the organization is sending emails to their season ticket holders being like, and that's what you come out like? Yeah, there were, yeah, I mean, you could pick apart the letter, right, to the season ticket holders all day long, but like it wasn't crazy to think that if you could win two or three here. No, it was crazy.

It's crazy. No, it's crazy. But six points. Six points. The optics of six points for anybody. Forget about your Leafs for a second. They're dead last in every category. Forget about the Leafs.

They suck all year. It's still six points. It's a good week, Sam, for any hockey club. You're 100% right. Mathematically, they win a couple games. I'm not talking about what you've witnessed every day. Just me. The whole fan basis.

I'm not saying what any Leaf fan witnessed. Yeah. What I'm just saying is that. over the course of 50 years, somebody would look at six points in a difference with 25 games to go, going, we're not out of it. No, you win two or three games. Now you're four points back.

Do it again. You know, it's, you were still in it. So that's where, even though we know, that's where it came from. Yeah. But you can't even take back tomorrow night any type of, we were in the games or we're right there, or, you know, we got a bad break.

or we're all over them or what are you taking into Saturday night? Yeah, I saw Myrtle thinks that they will need 99 points to get in based in the east, which is pretty crazy. Oh, no. In? No, no, no. I'm just doing the math here. And so he said, I think that's 18 and 5.

So the point is there's not, you're running out of even being like math can do it. Like you can't even math your way there at some point. All right. Let's hear from the captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs on their start. This is Austin Matthews. Clip one. I think we had the same level of our sheer detail that obviously they had. You know, they got three there in the first,

and I thought our second and third we competed hard and played much better, but it's hard to dig yourself out of a hole against a team like that. That defense really hard, and obviously they put their goal-tening and stuff like that. You'd like to have more of a 60-minute effort there. But, yeah, I'd see our start was at the issue tonight. Okay. And then let's follow it up with the lack of desperation, I guess.

We might as well hit them both from Matthews there. I mean, I don't think concerns right word. I just think we need more desperation, more, you know, fire, especially to start games. We know the position that we're in and we need to be the more desperate team every single night. Like I said, I thought, you know, the start wasn't great. But our second and third period, we competed. Guys worked. And we did a lot of good things.

But, you know, we need to turn that into a full 16-minute effort. You sure about that? Concerns the right word. I don't think concerns the right words. You're not concerned. It should be very high at the list of words you would use. I don't know. Do you get anything out of that word salad?

No, no. Listen, he's... I don't think of me as what you're thinking of me. It's always the same tone. There's no real... You're not getting any frustration or emotion out of him. This is the way he answers anything constantly. So it's not...

There's nothing there, right? other than give an answer and move on. Here's what a long summer is going to do for him. It'll be good or bad. Maybe good. It's been hurt for the last couple years. Oh, go ahead. As far as Austin's concerned,

you just try to get him to the end of the season and you're going to revisit that. His situation, short-term, long-term. I think no different than Willie Neelander. And as far as I'm concerned, outside of those two guys, everybody should have a for sale sign on right now. Did you happen to see my article today?

I did, yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah, I did. Yeah, I'm with you on that. Yeah. I just think, you know, like with money, you don't necessarily know why you should be saving it, but you just know something's going to come up. And I feel like that with draft picks.

They need to be acquiring whatever they can because you don't know what's going to come up. Could there be a, there's going to be someone available at some point you're going to want to spend it on. So just get what you can. Because this is saying it. Bringing back, I'm actually out on doing McMahon and Lawton extensions. I don't, they're going into their 30s.

Healthy, it's not working here. They don't play Lawton anyway. Listen, Lawton can come back, but let me get something for you. And then we can, we'll bring you back in the summer. It's doable. It's doable. And I believe that there would be a team out there that would give a,

a third rounder, if they weren't sure if they were going to sign him or not. And if they do get a crack at signing him, then they can move to a second, right? So would you, you would allow him to speak to teams and say? 100%. And I know there's a lot of talk about OEL, not wanting to go anywhere, but you don't have a complete no move. And I'm sorry, but you got to go too. And if I honestly believed that there was a market for Morgan Riley,

then he should be not dressing Saturday night. And he should be in the similar situation as Tyler Myers is in Vancouver. It's like, let's find you a place. I mean, he could not be dressing on Saturday night for different reasons too. Do you... Listen, Sammy, it's so over on that. Don't do that. Don't do that.

Don't do what? Don't make him, don't make him now a scapegoat by not dressing him Saturday night because you think he tripped over himself or embarrassed himself or whatever the case is. The time to have made him a healthy scratch was long ago. The ship sailed so much. Let the guy leave with some dignity at the end of the summer. I mean, at the end of the season, let go into the summer. summer, find him a place, and move on. But don't, it's too late to make him a healthy scratch.

The ship sailed so far. It's gone around the world and it's back. Right. That's where it's and you know what. It went on an intercontinent. I felt for him falling and tripping. I did. And I know, I know everybody's having a good laugh on it on it. Maybe because maybe I've been in there a few times where, you know, tripped and crashed into the boards or almost broke my neck. And it's, it's not a great feel. My first feeling is not to laugh at him. It's to go, oh my God, I must just feel awful right now for him. Well, and it's just, it's all the hockey analysts, and I don't mean that about myself or whatever.

I mean, people who know hockey, you play hockey and just watch hockey, have known that Morgan Riley's been struggling for quite a while. But that sort of incident brings the dummies in. The people who don't really know, but they can see this because you can. And I don't mean you, McKee. Yeah, well, I mean, both you guys are just sub-tweeting me on air here. No, no, no. I was sitting on my couch.

I was laughing my ass off. I put a video out there. It went viral. Kipper's pissed about it I can tell. And you're making fun of me. So call me a dummy. This has nothing to do with you. I'm saying that that moment is the one that brings like my mom to me being like, Morgan

Riley sure struggles. This is, again, you are within whatever right you have to laugh. Objectively on. But like, I'm just telling you. I'm not saying that you can't laugh at it. I'm saying I won't. I can't. And I'm saying

I am going to laugh at it but I feel bad because it brings in the people who it's just, it's going to get very loud from Morgan Riley now because everyone is on board that it's not going well.

Again, if between now and next Friday, if you can find anything in terms of a team willing to take a chance on them, I don't know whether or not they take the whole contract. If the Leafs are in a position to hold two million of it

and turn it into a better asset in return, you got to do it. You got to do it. But I don't think it's out there right now. I just think there's no way they do it. I just don't think they will. Why? Tell me why.

Because they don't think they have the stones. Yeah. Okay. And I think. All right. Well, listen, you may be right. But when I hear that, I want to throw up. Okay.

I want to throw up. Do what's right for the team. Not what's right for Morgan. Austin, Willie, do what's right for the team. I just think it, you know, he has been, we talked about it. Everyone loves this guy.

He's been a great Maple Leaf. It's at this sort of bad crossroads here. And I think in the summer it'll be quieter. There's less noise around at all. He has the chance to, you know, plan a move. I just don't think they'll do it to him. And I think to your point, that's not the way you think it should be done.

I also think if you're Morgan, don't you want it? Don't you want to go play, you know? You don't want to end your career like this? No. No, I haven't end your career. He's got four years left after this. Go. But he could be with the Marley's next year if he sticks around.

That's ending your NHL career. You know, he's not that. He's not an AHLD. He's having a tough go as a number one D here. You can't bring him. back and be in last place. I'm sorry, but you can't. No, no, I agree you can't bring him back,

but I think they'll say, all right, this summer we'll find a place for him, we'll work with him. Of course you can't. You have to. That's the attitude you have to have, but you have to kind of be a little tough in terms of pull a Rutherford and tell him you're not dressing.

Tyler, you got, go home and think about it. That's what they told them out west. go home and think about it. And by all indications, they tried to have a similar conversation with them this off season that maybe, like maybe they should have happened.

Yeah. They held on too long. Yeah. And it goes back to, once again, a lack of decisiveness. Yeah. Which seems to be a bit of a calling card here with this front office.

Yeah, we heard that that might be a thing, right, at the time at the start of this whole thing is a lot of rumors, a lot of whatever, but not a lot of actual movement. So, you know, I said to you guys yesterday, you got to start yesterday. You got to, you know, if you're going to make a lot of trades and too many sellers, right?

It's not only that. You just, you just, you need a partner. You need someone to commit. You need someone to say, I'm in. If they're not comfortable with the prices, you can't just do it for the sake of doing it because you say now's the time to do it. I agree with Morgan that you can't, right?

There's no one out there being like, you know what our stretch run needs is the $7.5 million $1,000 Morgan Riley? No one is saying that. I get it. But I do think that there are people saying Scott Lotton would be perfect for us. Yes. Brandon Carlo would be a great deputy for us. It would be six or eight teams guaranteed.

Yeah. Yeah, you can't turn Scott Lotton into a first rounder. And you can turn him into a prospect or a draft pick, you know. Maybe you can get Nikita Gravankin for him, straight up. If they trade That one doesn't keep me up at night No No probably not

The first round pick might But Grubankin doesn't keep me up If they trade Scott Lotton this week It'll be insane That he never once For a game Was the second line winger Didn't get a shift with Matthews

Didn't get a shift with Tavara's Nealander Didn't get a look And any sort of impactful role Just playing the fourth line With Lorenz Play 12 minutes. Is it just, in your opinion,

Craig Bruby deciding that he's not that guy? Totally. Yeah. Totally that's it. And I don't know, they decided McMahon wasn't that guy and scratched him. And then, you know, kind of ran out of options and he forced his way out of that hole. But I just, I don't. That's a baffling one for me when they've been looking for all these solutions.

And they just don't even try it. Don't try it. Mitch is playing center for Vegas. You know, it's crazy. There's a lot of things with the coaching staff this season that probably don't look great on the ledger, quite frankly. I mean, Cowan not playing either of these games. Do you think that's the management or the coach?

Well, probably, they're probably like, hey, we're trying to play these guys and showcase them or whatever, maybe. Maybe he's going to play after the deadline. Obviously he's going to play after the deadline. rid of some guys. But coming out of a break, you can't get him in one of those two games. I don't know. It just felt bad to me.

Like every defensive metric, they're at half play. Every game. Yes. I don't care. They're in, he can fall five times like Morgan did last night. And I'm not pulling him out of the lineup now. You're going to tell me that you got 12 forwards and he's not one of the best 12.

It's like, no. And I don't think they even believe that. I think to your point, I think it is like a, hey, maybe we can trade. But are you trying to win? trying to showcase guys. So maybe internally they're aware they're not trying to win. Maybe that's just a whole... Then tell us that.

Because every post-game press conference, oh, it's a big two points. Oh, it's a big this. It's a big... Like, I just have no idea what the plan is. So... Should we hear from the coach a bit? Yeah.

We talked a lot about lack of urgency. Let's hear from the head coach on it. Clip two. Well, it is. It's like, you know, same thing. thing is, you know, last night's game in Tampa. You need it for 60 minutes, especially now. We can't take any shifts off.

And, you know, it's my job to make sure that they have it. Well, he got one thing right. It's his job. He knows it. Like, I think he knows it's not going awesome. You can't have. And listen, I mean, Craig and I got a history. We broke into the league together at the same time.

I don't want to see the guy lose his job. No. But you got over 20 games to go. Anything remotely that looks like that first period, he can't last 20 plus games if it's going to look like that. Oh, my God. You know, you think... You can't.

You're six weeks from the end of the season. You think they'd be active before that? You think that too, I think. Well, I... Oh, no, no. Like, you know what, it's... Five different times. No, you just...

You can't. too long. Remember it was it like in like March last year for Philly? Jay B, it's a quarter of the season. Forget about standings.

Forget about like you you can't you can't allow it. It just breeds like bad culture. If they're not responding to you if it looks like they've quit on you

you can't have that for the next quarter of the season. You know it says something about like what they've gone with passed. We've talked about Tree and we've talked about Barubi this year and remember when we talked about

like, could Tree be in trouble? We talked about earlier this year, I forget when it was. And you were like, who's going to take over? Brandon Pridham, ready to be the GM? Is Shane Donne ready to be a GM? And we were all like, you know, I don't, none of them were super established names around the

NHL. I kind of feel like that like Derek Lalonde is there. Like, Lalonde would have to be it because it's not going to be Van Rine. It's not going to be Sullivan. that's why you got Llan. It's because at least he has a history. He was once upon a time at coach. That's why you have a guy like that. But I, you know,

you know, they're going to go into this trade deadline and I'm saying they need to make seven moves or whatever, six, five. There's no time. Tree Living is doing the trades. Right. Okay. So he's doing the trades.

What you need to do now is think long and hard about how, what your management, team needs to look like what you wanted to look like by the draft. Okay. That's the window. That's fine. But if you're not sure about Tree, and I imagine the president of CEO is going to have some, make a decision on that at some point, he can't, Tree can't pick the coach, right?

Because whoever, if it's not Tree, a new GM is going to want to pick his coach. So it has, excuse me, it has to be LaLonde. The whole thing made me gay. Big old burp. But there's been spit. up for the last this week is been spit up

80 hours has been spit up century lot of people spit up in this market kale mccarshot went in the net and I can't think

of any other moments I enjoy it but I mean this is a conversation for another day but if there's going to be changes like I think it's a good day to talk about it

is it it's like the right day wholesale changes is wholesale just mean tree and Brad yeah I

I how could you sit here and go no I'm putting the weight of my endorsement behind what we've seen. All the coaches, right? I don't know about all of them. I don't know.

I can't speak to it any of them. Do you have a new GM or a new coach and keep an assistant coach? The one thing we've said for years was that everything happened out of sequence with Kyle and Lou and all the progression. People not getting to hire their people and fire. It just was very strange. The order of, you know, what you're, need to do is have a president.

And then that president needs to pick a general manager. And that guy needs to pick a head coach. And that head coach needs to pick a staff. So Brendan Shanahan should have been replaced. Yes. I just, you know, it would be interesting to talk to Pelly about his comfort level

with being around every single day. If, if you don't believe in Brendan Shanahan, at least have someone else as a springboard for tree living. Right? Yeah, just someone to talk with and be there and bouncing he's off. And I understand he has other management.

But again, his management team is younger. But the mere fact that we don't know who they are offhand. Daryl Metcalf worked with me. Nobody knows him. Nobody knows him. Nobody has any idea of who he is or what he's done his whole life. And I don't mean that in a disrespectful way. Yeah.

He's been there for over a decade. He holds no water in any of this. I know. According to the masses. Yes. So, like... Buddy, I get it.

Yeah. Nobody knows. Nobody knows. They're safe. Everybody around Tree can conceivably be safe because we've never heard of them. We don't know who they are.

It's funny that like, you know, you watch Gorton. You're right. You're right. I have no idea. I watch and follow this team so closely. You've never heard the name Daryl McCaskill.

I have. Yeah. We've heard of it. But what is it? What is it you do around here? Right? I do. I do.

here. Lots. Were you the one suggesting a first round pick unprotected for the Boston Bruins? Like, who owns that? Who owns that? Yeah. What would you say? I'm going to say it's not, Darrell. You do.

I'm not going to put that one all, Darrell. I don't know if I'm in the minority here, but from people I talk to and my leave fan buddies buddies and just the tone I get, not a lot of trust going on right now. Again, I really like. Both of those guys, and I mean that with my whole heart. I think they seem like really nice, likable, kind people. But just what would you hang your hat on so far? That has happened where you go, here's what they've done with the Leafs.

That's great. There's lots of nice guys. Yeah, totally. I just, I, you know. You're awesome. Yeah. Love you. Do you trust me to do anything good?

Absolutely not. No, I suck. So like, I just, but just going in to this deadline where this whole fan base is like, who's been used to winning, and it's been nine years of them winning and in the playoffs and exciting and deadline. It's a whole shifted mentality. I thought you were saying something different.

No, it's a whole shifted mentality from, hey, we're going for it to, hey, we got this rare opportunity to actually, like, kind of restock the cupboards. And I think people really, there's sneakily more pressure, I would say, on the front office in this year than there has been in years where they've bought.

Yeah. Because. People are excited for the sell. And they look at, well, they look at their cap wages page, and they look at what their pick thing is, and they look what their prospect pool is. There's huge pressure on this. Huge.

Go back to, like, the beginning of the season on our shows. Like, I didn't have them winning the Atlantic, but I certainly had them very comfortably in the playoffs. I pick them to win the cup every year. But, like, they're coming off in Atlantic Division. there was talk that they might they're a better team built for the playoffs. That was the sell.

That was the sell. It was a heart. You definitely said you got to get there first. I was worried. I didn't think it would be this bad. I got to be honest with you. I didn't think it was going to be this bad. But I was.

No one thought they'd be dead laugh. But not this. Not from Atlantic Division champions to this. and leaf fans. They're last. They want someone to pay for this. And, you know, I said in my article today about why they should sell, I believe I use the word, the term, oversellus.

Like just err on the side of selling too many people. Because all these teams that just passed them in the last year, they've been bad for years. And all their picks and prospects are just young and realized now. Ottawa's not getting worse. Those young guys are getting bad. Montreal is going to be awesome. Detroit found their way through.

Buffalo finally took a step. Ottawa is the one of those that I would push back. Sure, that's fine. And I get that. But the other three, Montreal, Buffalo, and Detroit are better. They zoomed straight past least. Tampa Bay is obviously better. Florida is going to reload this offseason.

Which one of you would pick Toronto ahead of Florida next season end of year standing? Neither? Kay? The only one I'm not sure about Boston. I think Boston kind of sneaky sucks. Everything they do right now, biggest question is, like, can you save next year? Totally.

But Kip, I would rather, I would rather oversell. I would rather oversell and miss the playoffs next year because long term, you're better off. And I think it's more likely they miss than make. So that's why you err on the side of selling. It's more likely they miss than make next year as we sit here today. Do you think this market would?

If they just had signs that it was turning this year and next year will be okay to miss the playoffs. I think so. I think if you're sitting here and you're holding. I think it's easy to say now. If you're holding. I think that's a bitter, bitter pill to swallow. Five or six second and third round picks.

You know, you've got some capital to spend. You still have the guys who are good on the ice to, you know, and as the season goes on, Quinn Hughes becomes available. And maybe Adam Foxx. becomes available. To do it the right way, I think in the short history of this salary cap, what a 20 plus years, it is really the only way. Yeah.

By the way, I didn't mean they would require quid news. I'm saying good players become available every year. I look at Boston and people are like, oh, do the Boston thing and miss the playoffs and then come back and I'm not still sure on Boston. No. Boston's not. But they had a huge win over Columbus last night and probably are going to make the playoffs, which a lot of league fans had killed for.

It's still a little unique for Boston because they look like. like they're going to be in a position where they can challenge for a playoff spot, probably make it this year. I don't know. We'll see how it plays out and still get a top 10 pick. But they also sold good players last year, right? Like, they, Carlo was a much higher valued guy. Brad Marchon was that Charlie Coil was a high.

They had guys to sell. And then this year, they're getting great goaltending. And their decor is good. But again, I don't think they're caught. 32 minutes in our show. Leaf hour edition and we've solved nothing. How are we 32 minutes in? What just happened?

We should probably break. I've got a few calls. Sammy, it's Friday. We got a leaf line. We do. We got a few calls. How many? I don't know.

A few. Are they happy? No. Sad? Just sour. It's been a bad week, bro. Okay. It's been a bad week.

We all need the weekend. Sammy Sowers. When we return to Real Kippermie, BORN. Dive deep into Toronto Sports and the NFL. The J.D. Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the Real Kippin'Borne.

Kipriot, Justin Boren, our very own Sammy. Remind me not to like trip in front of you, Sammy. God forbid. I have some levity in a week. Sorry, Ryle. You had to eat that one, bud. Sorry, Mo. I just want to tell you 100%.

I never saw what you sent last night. I had no idea that you went viral. Lots of people saw it. Okay. Let's just say I didn't. $250,000 of my best friends saw it. What do you have for us, Sammy and the little... What do we got?

What do we want to go first? Leafline callers. Can I just shout out, you told me that someone left us a long one. That was very good. But we just couldn't play it. Shout out to that guy for the effort, but apparently. Yeah, it was like four and a half minutes. Four and a half.

Any key points? Straight passion. It was a lot of, let's just say it's reflective of the tone. Okay. Of this week. All right. Let's do, let's go Dawn from Simco to start. Love the show.

And I would like to suggest and get your thoughts, especially Kipper, on maybe getting an advisory gentleman like Rob Blake to take over the position that Shanahan had to help advise Kelly on future moves with the team. I'll hang up now and have a great weekend. Go, Leavesco. Go, Leaves, go. Where's Blake right now? Retired.

Okay. Right? And he had his run with L.A. I don't know how many years in total it ended up being, but he had some significant time there. again those guys are a little tricky sometimes too and there's no question

I believe he put his heart and soul into the L.A. Kings but Blakey doesn't need another job no he's got more money than God I don't know I don't know how motivated

he would be I think he's an excellent hockey guy but you also you also have to like do your homework we know how Hall of Famers, we know what they've done on the ice, we know their accomplishments,

but when you talk about taking Hall of Famers off the ice and putting them into a boardroom, and you've got to really do your homework. You got to really understand what you're getting, where their strengths and weaknesses are, where they succeeded, where Blake, Blakey was able to make the L.A. Kings better, where he made them worse, right?

You know, I mean, you got to take, you got to really do your homework. You can't just sign a hockey team. card. It's fascinating thinking about, you know, the guys who've had a ton of success as general managers in the league. You know, I'm looking at Julian Breesbois, who he played a bit, right? You know, but he's not, not some superstar who made a zillion dollars.

He had to prove himself in management was probably pretty driven by that. Bill Zito was an agent, if I'm not mistaken before. Like, I think it's not super common to be like Wayne Gretzky is going to be the best coach or guys who are great at hockey. not necessarily great at this other thing. I do think he's the type of guy well suited to a president role where you're a guy who's there to bounce things off, but maybe not as involved in the day to day.

I also think the president role used to be very different. It used to be, you know, I'm talking about a president of hockey. You know, the president used to be a lot of business stuff and a lot of other things. I think those jobs maybe need to be divided in some way. I like an hour and I think I've said this a few times on our show. I like the thought of these agents that have been around for 20 years, 25 years, that have really known the game inside and out, have watched their players almost like another parent,

another brother, another family member. They're around these players more than their own families at certain points. And they can come in now and show that they can do a good job. Bill Zito's done it. Kent Hughes has done it. Montreal. I like... Jeff Jackson took over the president of the Oilers.

I like the Gordon Kett Hughes combination. I like that. What the hockey? The hockey... The hockey that's been around, you know, the hockey guy and an agent who's done negotiations. He just spent a lot of time thinking about player value. And that's a lot of what salary cat management is.

I like... Whether they want to build a team or not. I like a strong management group that... Like, there's got to be some chemistry. I want a crunchy and chewy, like a chew. But you know, sometimes, but sometimes the crunch has got to go and say too chewy. Okay? Too chewy.

We need more crunch. And then the chewy guy goes, no, I want more chewy. And you're just like, no, you got to have, these guys got to challenge each other. They got to look each other in the eye and say, I don't believe that. And this is why I'm telling you, don't give up mintin for Carlo. And if you don't have a management group that challenges each other, respects each other, since kind of listen sometimes,

sometimes you've got to say I'm wrong. Yeah. And if you have this one guy in there with all the power and everybody's all scared, you know, hey, hey, he, Sparky. Can I get you coffee, Sparky? There's a lot of that on management teams. Yes.

A lot. Yeah. Get rid of it. Love it. Okay. What a. What a... Let's go to Yoda from Toronto.

Your show is more entertaining than the Leafs game. Now, if Leafs management wasn't so co-opted by business suit groupthink and protecting the bottom line, which is actually their own corporate behinds, they would realize the moment which is presenting itself to them. Trade Matthews. when you can have your pick of a new nucleus. Now is the hour of salvation. He's not a captain who will take you to the promised land.

All you ever needed to know about Matthews was illustrated is a kind of template going forward, if you will. In that first NHL game, you remember, the one he played against the senators, Four goals. Amazing, right? Our franchise player had arrived. Establishing his least legacy.

And guess what? They lost the game. Yoda. That is a totally... Kyle Turus in overtime. Yeah, that is in... Cal Turus, that's a remembering guy. Funny...

You want to start on Matthews? Sure. start on Matthews. You need to think about everything. There's no stone unturned. No one's exempt just for the sake of being exempt. I mean, I have said many times,

it's hard to get the best 15 players in the league or wherever you have him. It's really, really hard. And there's no guarantee you get it back and I don't like doing it. So it would have to be very, very special. Yoda, it's an inevitable conversation that will come another day.

It won't come by next Friday. Conversations will start at the end of the season on Austin and his thoughts because they matter. And leaf management and ownership would know that. And to Justin's point, if you want to get rid of them, how do you get someone back like that? You don't. It's too hard.

I still have to sell season tickets. I still have to sell sponsor packages. I still want ratings. Austin can deliver those things outside of playoff round wins and a Stanley Cup you still know he's got Star Appeal. So the conversation will inevitably be to Austin.

Austin, what do you think? You want to stay here, you only have two years left on your deal. Do you envision yourself staying here? Do you want to finish what you started here the last 10 years? All of that will come, but it just won't come Friday. I actually, one thing I meant to mention in our first block think that the best sales pitch to Austin. Austin isn't done, you're not a UFA after next year.

He has two more seasons of contract time. I think your best case to keep him is to do this big sell-off and say, we're aware of our long-term future. This is not going to be, you know, we've now got all this draft capital. We're going to try to do some things. I think it's a much easier sell than next year we're going to try again. How do you sell that? You need to have something different in a new plan, some hope for the future.

Let's go to Brandon from the harbor. I'm just calling in to start a petition that we should, you know, change the Toronto Maple Leaf's outfits into a black leather or black latex dominatrix outfit because we continually pay this team to kick us in the balls. And you know what? We get nothing out of it at the end. It's just repeated abuse over and over and over. And we keep throwing money to them.

So you know what? They're not going to make any changes. We should make the change. Make them dress the part and go from there. Love you guys. Good job on the show. A bunch of massacons up there. I got nothing on that one, Sammy.

You take this solo, bud. I forgot about that. It is very funny. You know, there's almost an element of Lee's fandom where you wear the pain like a badge of honor. Looks like that badge ain't going anywhere. No. Let's go to one of our favorites,

Monty from Nova Scotia. Okay, where to start? Oh, I know where. Sammy, love you on this show, but hope you never become the Leafs GM. I agree that the changes need to happen with the team. Older players need to go, but McMahon, not in my opinion. A lot of really good players in this league at 33, 34 years old. That is four or five more years of 20 to 25 years. goals, fast as lightning, and a good four-checker. Besides, where are you going to find another like that for four mill or so right now? We have given away so many good players over the years. It makes me sick to think of losing another one and watch him thrive elsewhere. And most likely, the pick you get will be higher than 20th. How many of these never pan out?

Calm down just a little. We will have money to spend in the summer, and if we get lucky, 7.5 more from Riley's contract. That's a great call. I like that side of it, because you don't hear that side of it very often. They're in response to that. I think that leave fans like Vanti and myself are very scarred from certain guys leaving. I'm in, for example, is the one that sticks in everybody's crawl, local guy,

that they decided to pay Kasha, Nick Ritchie, and Marazek instead of keeping him. Like, there's, you know, the other guys that have walked out the door here when they, you know, Ryan O'Reilly, all this stuff down the line, okay? Connor Brown. Connor Brown. All the guys that have left.

I don't necessarily put McMahon in that same. I guess. I think they've gotten the value out of him. If I think he's a 25 goal guy for four or five more years, cool. I'm not as sure that that's going to happen. Either of I. I'm just too many nights

disappointed in the last two games Well maybe don't put him on the third line When you're trying to trade him No Can you just believe on the first line for a little bit First second or third line Yeah Yeah he's just

He shows flashes for sure It's just an inconsistency guys He doesn't seem to be able to do it on command You know Like it just sort of it's there some nights And he's not sure why And it's when it's there it's awesome Let's go to George from Scarborough

Hi, guys. Hindsight's a wonderful thing. Bad decisions from day one with Shanahan. Picking Dubus over Lou or Mark Hunter, picking Babcock, signing Tavares upset the rooms development, making Matthews captain too early, Zach Hyman walking away, emptying cupboards for old, washed players caving into terrible overpriced contracts with no moves. Draft and trading for small players. No goaltenders.

Good news is we shouldn't have to worry about first round losses for years to come. Love the show, chin up for what's coming next. Thanks. So it took us, it took us and it's still, we're still on it, six months. to talk about that this season. And George just summed it up in 30 seconds. It's very funny because from that list of things, you would never think this team won, you know,

100-point seasons like seven times, you know, the nine playoff runs in a row. A couple of good victories in there. But yeah, it's a... So much of that is subjective, right? What you think was right and wrong and not sure which decisions would have worked or wouldn't have. Let's go to Justin from London.

This is Justin from London calling, which means Sammy isn't going to play this because he hates the Knights. My question is, do you think the Leafs will, are willing to take on a bad contract to get an asset? So definitely not getting on. Go nights go. Justin, first of all, thanks for acknowledging Sammy. Maybe the hardest decision he's made in four and a half,

years on this show. He did it though. He did the right thing. Some guy called in and left like a minute long voicemail about this horrible trade that the owns that attack made and like how they know nothing about hockey and own sound and like they're trolling me on there too. I can't escape. The answer is I think

it's hard to take a bad contract with multi years. If you want to rent somebody out for the rest of the season, 100% that they would spend millions to create it into a first or second or third round pick. Yes, absolutely. Money is no object in terms of what they can do to get themselves better, which is ultimately assets.

Mangapani has one more year at $3.6 million after this one. Last night he had a goal and an assist. You know, I don't know. Any sort of intention? Well, they didn't want them for switching them with Machelli. Right, yeah. It doesn't help you. It doesn't help.

What's the point of that? Yeah, that doesn't help you. No, like, I'll just take him along with your pick. That would rare. Or a high five. Edmonton doesn't even, they don't have those type of assets now. Okay. I mean, that would make both teams worse.

Go back to Marazick. What did Marazick cost the Leafs? Three and a half. Million bucks. Oh, to get rid of a second. Yes. They had to move down in the draft. They went from a first rounder to a second rounder to do it.

It was expensive. Yeah. Incredibly expensive. Edmonton can't just throw away those type of top assets to get rid of that. Well, they need it, bud. That's what they're doing right now. Lumping it and liking it. Figures it out.

All right. Monterepani is 29. What a guest, 30. I'll take a deep breath. Our thanks to everyone that called in on Sammy's leaf line. Up next, Doug McLean, former National Hockey League, president, GM, head coach. And now our savior on a Friday afternoon. Sure, he's got no thoughts from the last week.

Oh, well. More real Kipper and born when we return after these words.