Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Takeaways After Three Games

Episode Date: October 14, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back at the Maple Leafs dropping both home-and-home games to the Detroit Red Wings, the expectations laid out for William Nylander after three games, Craig Berube continuing to work out the top line now with rookie Easton Cowan slotting in, and who would be the ideal playmaker on their power-play. Then, the guys continue their conversation on Cayden Primeau's incoming debut in net against Nashville and who has stood out from the defensive core to begin the regular season. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome in studio, it's the real Kipper and Bourne show. It is our Leaf Hour edition that Kippreels, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Jen Rollnick, Derek Brandeo. We're live on sports set 360. Sportsnet 590, the fan streaming, always on Sportsnet Plus. And if you don't catch our show live, you can always download it on Spotify, Apple Podcast, and YouTube. This hour real Kipper and Bourne brought to by Bet365. Leafs lose both games on a home and home to the Detroit Red Wings. They drop to one and two as they get ready to face the Nashville Predators.

tonight. And for those of you that did not watch in our first hour, Sammy was seen on national television with this look right here. This was

taken in the last minute of the Leaf game. Yeah. Where Sammy's like just blown away. I will say so I didn't, you know, as you can tell in that photo,

I was pretty locked into the baseball game. I wasn't on my phone. I'm thrilled. I wasn't on my phone. a ton and i pulled out my phone i guess after it was addison barge who eventually struck out there or maybe you walked and the next guy struck out whatever happened and i hadn't pulled my phone out and i'd say 10 minutes or so and i looked at it and i i've never seen anything like that you know

immediately that you just like what the hell is like it's always on silent doesn't make a sound ever like it just i conservatively boys 300 messages it's like text is instagram twitter It's way too early in the Leafs season to feel that way about back-to-back losses against Detroit for you? I don't know. I don't know anymore. I don't know.

Good thing I do. I want to say that I'm not worried, but, you know, I am. That's just me. Can you, you add a lot to say on your tweet. Not really. Can you read it for us? I can tell you, yeah. They said that they looked like if you threw a team over the boards

and there was no coach, like this was the roster, this is the results you would get. They have the second highest expected goals, according to sport logic, and the third worst expected goals, according to the sport logic. So that's high danger, high danger chaos. It looks like a team that's just kind of doing what they want to do. Okay, hold on. Kip is very obsessed with the idea that I said.

The leaves basically looked like a team if they had never been coached. I can't think of a worse compliment. And the next line is not to say that they're not being coached. But it's mayhem. I don't care about the not being coached. No, no, no. I'm like, I don't disagree with you. That's how it looks.

I know. It looks bad. That's a problem for Ruby. Yeah, I pick one. You look like you don't coach the team. Well, it looks like the team is not playing in structure. The breakouts are non-existent. You know what it looks like?

The D, they're so obsessed with this like, go forward, go forward, go forward. You got Chris Tanniv rimming puck's around. He's 35. has he ever just been a rimmed around the boards guy? You know, like it just, they can't make three straight passes. And for the record, I actually feel okay about the Leafs

and I'm going to say positive stuff, but where they're at, they just have no chemistry right now, and it looks bad. Is it, I'm saying, hold on, have Leith fans at home right now, are they going, what is he talking about? It's been really good.

Can I say, like, some of those stats that you bring up, like the expected goals for, expected goals against, second half of the game against the rest of, Red Wings first one Saturday night filled in like the second two periods yeah that's the second half of the game but the second two periods but like most of the second half of the game filled in and then the last two periods of the Red Wings game yesterday uh as dominated performance as you're

going to see from a hockey team without shooting the puck in the net lots of feelers to start like I don't disagree the analytics don't tell you that but no but like they don't but they they they the analytics say you got filled in for three periods was in the first game that they lost. No, I'm sorry, in the, last night. Oh, no, no. No, last night. Oh, you're talking about the first game. So what I'm saying is with the such a small sample size for expected goals for and against, it's three games. One of them they got filled in. One of them they did the filling in and the first game was brutal. So like, I think it's a small sample size at this point of those two stats. Like yesterday was

incredibly encouraging after what I watched on Saturday night. Saturday night shook me to my core. See, I disagree. I didn't like anything about yesterday. yesterday really what what why they had the whole hockey game the leaves yes but he I don't I didn't I didn't I saw a

horrible game from both sides it was a bad game okay it was okay we'll get into it more let's go to Craig Barubia on his overview clip one yeah I mean it was a good solid

60 minutes in my opinion thought we controlled the play plenty of opportunities to score didn't go in enough I mean that's about online and um you know probably shouldn't have gave up the two on one goal okay um i still see a team that doesn't still spends too much time in their own zone i see a team that doesn't have the puck that often you see that yesterday camper are we watching the same game no i i did not like i still

in three games, I think they could be easily 0 and 3. I mean, even the first game against Montreal. I'm not going to argue that because they're one and two and they snuck by Montreal. But yesterday, the puck and ozone time was 22 to 16 for the Leafs. So they carried the bulk of the play. And they just, I mean, some of these numbers, 20 to 5 in slot shots, 31 to 12 in slot driving plays. Like I'm not saying that the Leafs are good or happening.

No, no, no. I'm saying that was a better game. And listen, Red Wings were awful. I don't, they're not as bad as that what we've seen so far. And they're, they may not be as good as we think they are, but there's something in the middle here that they can drive to another level here. But, you know, we're just listening to Craig Barrowie about he liked a lot of things. And then when the game is on the line at its most critical time,

Morgan decides to go and try to score the game winning goal under a minute. and whether or not you think that's a good decision or not I'm okay with having that but what has to happen is that you have to have at least one or two other guy to identify that Morgan's in deep and you've got to cover his ass and go watch the game winning goal

and I know we'll get into Willie here but go watch Willie on the game winning goal. He is the third guy high. And if it's Willie, if it's, and it's Mason Appleton who's five feet behind Willie and blows by Willie like

he's the Statue of Liberty for a two-on-one. This is before the icing. This is before the icing. Yeah. Like, can't have that. No. He can't win. It doesn't look like you care.

This is what I mean about, like, looking uncoached. Like, of course you're backing out in a tie game and the final, you know. Like, that's, of course. Did you see it? I mean, I haven't seen it. I've seen the in-zone player. And Willie's out there, Willie just changed. He's out there 15 seconds.

And his back check looks like he's been out there for a minute and a half. Yeah. I mean, for the record, I have seen it. I know you're talking about it. There's no excuse for it. Yeah. No, it's not. And he's on Willie today and in the post game and saying we need more.

And I think Willie hadn't had a five-on-five shot or maybe one until the third period of game two. Like, he's not looked. Yeah, it's only been three games. Do you, that honestly was, do you want to listen to? Okay, so there's two different, a bunch of different clips. Okay. But this is the first one from after the game yesterday. Let's do Barouba needing clip three, please, Derek.

Willie needs more shots. You know, he doesn't have enough shots. In Detroit, didn't have any, had one or two tonight. We need to get him more. He needs to attack more. He needs to shoot more. He's got to get on the inside more,

like things like that. So, yes, we do need more to him. He's just need a back check. Yeah. I mean, I got to tell you, like, I'm not going to sit here and talk about the back checks of Willie Nealander? Like, I mean, that's always going to be something

that's going to leave you wanting. You're going to need 40 to enter the net the other way, and it just hasn't looked like he's been threatening for most of the season. I mean, it's three games, but what's the Willie moment where he's been like, wow, what a... No, there isn't one, but I think, you know, I know other hockey player would you ever just say,

well, you're not going to worry about his back checks and what's it even matter. It's like, it matters. I know it does. I'm with him. I'm totally with him. I don't want to hear that he needs more shots. I want to hear that if he doesn't back check,

I'm not putting him out there. That's what I want to hear. That's where it starts. Everything else is, I don't care. I don't care. If you can't do that, then you can't do anything else for us. We'll never win.

Yeah. So this is kind of, you know, to go back to coaching stuff, last year, were there any instances where someone sat on the bench for a period, a game who was a top guy based on performance. I mean, I'm asking sincerely, was there any instances? Can you think of a game?

No, I don't remember anything. And, you know, I talked to some other great coaches. And it's the one tool you wield with these guys is ice time and opportunity. And it's never been wielded. The end of the game, like, you know, late. Like, they're like, get Willie out there with Austin to see if they can get something going. And all of it is fine. But what we can't do.

as broadcasters or media is keep falling into the same Willie is just Willie okay it's like it's just it's got to stop Sam I mean it's year nine yeah and it's never changed so yeah I mean and the outcome will never change yeah I mean the outcome will never change listen probably right I I'd be hard to sit here and argue the other side of that kipper we're being like you know what if willie turns into a great defensive player the lease will win the cop like yeah sure like they want willie to be more of a leader yeah of course of course and you have the capabilities of being that guy but you can't be a leader on that last

play of the game no you can't the one thing i'm i'll say about this team just so it's not because i'm you know i'm not going to hit all the negatives today is that they're one and two at this point and they haven't got output from no no goals for matthews on a goalie no goals from Nealander on a goalie, no goals from Tavares on a goalie, one goal from Nye. So there's your four top scoring guys who have one goal so far.

That's not going to happen this year. They're not, you know, if we were sitting here right now and Matthews had six goals and they're still one and two going, that's their fastball. Yeah. But they haven't thrown their fastball yet.

They haven't found their zone. But there's some real chemistry issues and they're going to get there. But right now it's messy. It's really messy. Yeah. There is a concern for where all the goals are going to come from. Yeah.

Well, like I said, these guys that he just said it. The guys that he just said, those four guys that, you know, make a lot of money and there always have shot. It won't be enough. It won't be enough. I don't know about that. Yeah. It won't be enough.

Okay. Because it's, to get them to the next level. Yeah. Yeah, to go deep to conference finals, to Stanley Cup final, to win in the Stanley Cup, it won't be enough. It won't be enough. It was in a month. Tavares had 37 or 38 last year, right?

It won't be enough. There needs to be more goals coming from 12 guys. I don't know. I mean, do you see Nick Waugh scoring 20 goals this year? Yeah, not another question. If you may play more than 10 minutes a night, he might. Yeah, I like to see him on the ice. Why is he only play 10 minutes a night, 12 minutes a night?

That's unclear. I don't know. I'm not sure. You see, I thought he's been the most effective new player by a good distance. I thought he, I thought he was a better skater than what I've seen so far. I've really liked him. Smart, heavy finishes, checks, hands. I don't know.

And maybe, I didn't know that you thought that, that he was fast. I thought he, yeah, I thought he was a little faster. Yeah. But. So you don't think he can score 20. Well, no, I don't know. I mean, he's, what's the most he scored? 14, 15.

in in uh in Vegas but to sam's point they like does does brooby think he's not quick enough to to warrant 15 minutes 17 minutes there's some nights i guess he will but he averaged 15 every year in the n hl well with the top team in the pacific yeah so he's not above can i can i what's the overarching thought here kipper yeah you're saying a lot of things that's sort of leading towards what they need to trade people where we're uh there's going to be some challenges here and one of them is for me now is creating offense and we just had Valley on our first talked a little bit about being a little bit more dangerous not spending so much time I think staring down at a goalie and Austin I think it's a good sign that he's

he's more comfortable now getting pucks to the net right shooting really good yesterday really good. They didn't enter it. I know he's paid money to shoot the puck in the net, but I thought yesterday he would look like... Better, much better. Close to vintage Matthews, if I would say. I'm not there on vintage. The, uh, vintage three would have gone in. Yeah, he looked like vintage Matthews, but Matthews two years ago, that's many goals going in that game. Correct. Um, yeah, that's why I said close to it. Right.

But now I will say, like Florida Panthers last year, and that's not who Toronto is, but they're 15th in goals for last year going. into the playoffs. Yeah. The Leafs, as they're currently constructed, they can score enough. You know. So they're going to do it with Stolars and shutting down.

Well, I'm not saying that they are the best team in the NHL who's going to win the Stanley Cup. They have challenges. Yeah. Like, that's, this is the, I don't know that I'm as concerned about the offense because these guys haven't scored yet,

and they're still scoring three and a half goals a game or whatever so far. Positives, Matthew Nyes, looks like, by far the best. four checker that the Leafs have he can be ferocious he can be down low

the setup on the goal was to me an incredibly powerful kind of look to to Matthew Nise so good on Matthew nice Easton Cowan I know

a lot of people want to jump to conclusions after that game that he's ready for the challenges of being, riding shotgun with with Austin Matthews. For me, it's a little early to go there, but you got to have something to write about.

I truly, it's very Toronto market. Like, nothing can ever just be, there's some pros and cons, and this is good and bad, or whatever. Like, the Cowan was great. You know, maybe that's a strong word. Yeah. I mean, it's awesome. Really good.

He made that. backhand sauce to Matthews for the breakaway made a really great play a little slip to him six on five made a few defensive zone blunders looked out muscle here and there too like i think he's good and i think he looks great and he should be in that spot again tonight and for the foreseeable future here but okay want to play uh chief on uh on cowen yesterday clip two yeah i just thought five foot plays all over the ice you know he made a lot of them too um he was very good on a Ford check. He's got a great hockey IQ.

And there I say it, he's got a really good engine. Yeah, he does. And swagger for days. The kid saying I wasn't nervous is just another game. By the way, it bothers me 1%. I hate that. Because it's like, it's not just another game. And it shouldn't be just another game.

It's your first game in the NHL for the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's, you know, yeah. But great that he's got that mentality, I guess. I don't know. It seems like a good thing. He played great, wasn't nervous. Kids these days. Here's my negative, Nelly time.

What is it, you know, what does it say about the rostered construction of the Toronto May police right now that this is the guy that we were talking about, how are they going to get him in the lineup, how are they going to get him in the lineup? And then we're seeing a practice on Sunday morning of him skating on the top line and then him going out there and being like, was it 15 minutes that he played yesterday? 14, 15 minutes that he played yesterday. Like, that's the dice move, has put the rookie on the top line of the Toronto Maple Leafs to play with Austin Matthews. There's a picture of him wearing like a Marner

or like on the glass looking at Marner when he's like a little kid. And he's literally just like, you're replacing him now. You're going in there. It's just, it just feels like such a detriment to the roster construction of the Leafs that they have to go to this right away.

That it's the third game. They're like, Cowan Toplin. Sure. Sure. But like that part was a little. He's on there at six on five. He's one of their few guys who can create. That's what, like, if I'm going to have a conversation about what worries me,

it's that he can look great in his NHL debut. You're horned up. You're ready to go. You're excited. Talk to me in December when it's like the sixth game in 10 nights and you're like on the road and you're trying to go up against these grown men. You're like, oh, my God, like this is a real. They need somebody else to take that spot.

I love it for now, but they needed somebody else. that's what that is my point who domy it's got to be domi i'm going to say the least finish top 10 in scoring this year in offense it'll be ninth or something like that but i you know i do think there's a lot of chemistry problems like that machelli has what have you thought so far i see skill he's he's makes some plays i see skill shout out my boy bunkas he's he's past robertson pass robertson yeah yeah that's very

funny he's past robertson you know he might be past robertson but Robertson, shoot Robertson can shoot. So that's a compliment to his passing. So, you know, I think there's some plays that can be made there. The one guy who kills me is like, McMahon gets such a rough ride from Peruvie. Like, you know, he looks pretty good for a game and when he's not. But he just, he does. It's, it's the frustrating part for coaches like Craig or anyone else when they see a guy like Bobby McMahon, it's.

watching what you're capable of doing and then not seeing it for a week and a half. Correct. That's the, dang on. But if he could do it all the time, he'd make $10 million. Yeah, exactly, exactly. He'd be, I don't know, who's that good? He's Rick Nash.

Who can you say that about, right? Yeah, like be your best guy all the time. Everyone's like, yeah, I'm trying to be skates today. They're all so talented, but it's, can you bring it every night? Like, you know, Dakota Joshua's, another guy that he's capable, but he, the word in Vancouver, he was sleepy. You're waiting for so much more.

And the other night we see him knock somebody on their ass and then Nick Waugh goes down there for a nice scoring opportunity. But like, you're not seeing it three or four times a game. You're seeing it once every two games, three games. I. And that's, that's. There's a few guys like that. But to me, Joshua and McMahon are kind of the same in one way.

And it's that if you got that good stuff all the time, they'd be $10 million players. But McMahon, when he's not playing, at least he can have those bursts of speed to create something, get it on the forecheck. Joshua, for me, I can make. Which is okay, but when you need it in your top six, like it's, you can get away with it if you're on the third line.

But if you're Bobby McMahon and you're playing top six, six in a contending role, not a startup team. He had like one half a bad game and he got like completely punted. But I know you're saying that then there's more pressure to do it consistently. But what do you think they thought Dakota Joshua was? I think a big heavy guy that could play in your checking line. I think they thought he might be more. Like like a...

Like he gets slot in on the top six here and there. He could intimidate people. like fight maybe but like to me when I look at Joshua and I think I mentioned Pizzetta the other day

at training camp like what do you think you were brought in here to do you're brought in here to run into people and be physical and competitive and give the Leafs that little sleepy's not a great adjective I would know your role

I would like to calculate the amount of time he's had the puck on his stick this season Joshua Joshua and you think what it can't be north of 15 seconds no it's just he just really feels like he kind of skates to where something's about to happen and then it kind of happens without him there and then it's gone the other way like it just feels

like he's a step behind it just the whole team kind of feels a little it just just jointed it doesn't feel cohesive so if if a week ago we weren't sure where east and cowen was going to fit into the lineup like where were we on cali yon crook i mean like this guys this guys come in and been a bit of a hero for the Leaf. He's carrying their offense, buddy. He scored every game. He's been great. You know, he's been unfortunately hurt a couple times pre-playoffs,

and, you know, a good Callie Yarn Crock is a nice thing to have for $2 million. He can become the fourth Maple Leaf player in the expansion era to score a goal in each of their team's first four games. Austin Matthews, Clark MacArthur, and John Anderson. He's the Leaf's curfut right now. Well, wasn't he already kind of? No, Yarnfoot was the thing. He was already in that category. Flexiol.

He is. He is the new flex. He kills penalties. He's the right shot. He can play up the lineup, down the lineup. Do you think it's maybe we look back on last year and you see how he looks right now? And I mean, he's obviously shut the puck in the net. But outside of that, he looks a lot more aggressive.

He looks faster. Maybe he was a lot more banged up than we thought he was last year. We kind of had that idea of him that that was what he was. But he was just injured? I don't know. All I know is I can't, like this Tavares Nealander combo. so far as nothing, right? You're not getting anything from it.

I mean, we've had this conversation every year of our show. They've been doing this every year. We've done a show together. But you know, he's going to throw Willie up with Austin. That's cool. You need to.

And then what's that leave Tavares with? Well, Tavares, is he not? Now he's making $4.5 million a year or whatever? I don't care if he's making $11 or $4. He's your second-line centerman who has to produce. Right, but I don't think you're obligated to put them in a position to produce. I mean...

Then who is going to produce then behind Austin? Well, I mean, Kip, do you want to play this game? Like McMahon got 20 last year. You know, we got Yarn Kroc got 20 the year before. Robertson gets 15. Yeah. Like every other team does. Right.

Like, it's not common to have four superhero offensive guys. Okay. Can John still score 38 goals having Willie bounce around? or is that going to come down now with the 4 million? Well, it's going to come down with being 34, probably. Okay. More than anything else. All right, but we'd be comfortable with 25 and 65 points out of John.

That would be perfect. Okay. Sign me up for that today. And that includes top 10 still, right for you in scoring? Yes, absolutely. With him at 25. Yeah. Okay.

And is there a power play goal in your top 10? Well, that's for, you know, this is another thing. They haven't scored a power play goal. They're not going to be blanked all year either. Okay. All right. Are you okay with the power play with Morgan still? How would I be okay with it?

What's been good? Okay. Can I ask you guys? Can they put somebody on there that can pass? Yeah. It gets every guy. It's not. Wants to shoot.

Look at the top unit. It's Riley, who's not the great past, wants to shoot it from the point. Austin wants to shoot. Willie wants to shoot. Nize goes inside of the net. They're setting up the bumper, fallaway jumper for Tavares.

like their ideal scenario right now. They need to get Machialli or Domi in there. That Kauai mid-range jumper? They just need, there's no one can pass. They're not pat. They're just outside, outside, outside. Nothing's in the middle. So I'm not, I mean, no expert, but get us guy who passes it.

It's an issue. Do you agree? Yes. Okay. Yes. Care to elaborate? I don't know who the playmaker is. Yeah, that's it.

Okay. I don't see one. Yeah, I mean, Domi and Machelli are your passers on the team. Cowan, there's no place. Like, you've got, you still got, I don't know, $40, $50 million on, they don't come off the ice until they either score or it runs out of time. There's no, you got Tavares, you got Nealander, you got Matthews, you got Nyes, and you got Morgan, okay?

that's all your 40, 50 million bucks. Who's coming off the ice for Machelli or Domi? You know, I think that when you have a coach, you coach, right? Like, you know, you go ahead and you say, hey, we're going to do two units or we're putting out, you know, putting out some other look. I am long over your argument about these guys have egos and you have to make sure they're whatever.

You're the coach. You tell them when they go on the ice. They're under contract for years and years. And if they're so unhappy with not getting enough ice, time then they can do what are their options uh coach took me off at one minute mark of the power play trade me right now and then hang up the phone i don't know tell them when they're going on what do you think like if i'm asking you that at least power play one goes over the boards okay yeah what are they trying to set up that's always a fun game to play what is the

what's the ideal look it's always been the flanks it's always been matthew If we went through the last two years of Leafs' offensive power play goals, how many do you think are Matthews one-timers from the flank? It might be two. I was going to say tops, five, it feels like. It's not a functional play for them. There's no second to third opportunities. It's Tavares.

That's what it is. Nyes and Tavars win pucks in the net. That's what they want to do. And that's when it was going well last year, they were getting them to the net. But they had a passer out there. They had Mitch Marner who would filter it towards the net, who would pass it towards the net. So you can't replace him. but try a guy that has a similar skill set that passes it more.

You know, Willie can pass the puck. I mean, it's on his first instinct. No, it's not. But he maybe needs to toggle the mindset a little bit. But, well, you know what's fun now is this is when coaching comes into it too, where you look at a guy, Mark Savard, runs it, and you say, okay, it's only been, what have they had? Have they had 10 attempts yet?

I don't know. Yeah, probably. Yeah. So, you know, about time to go, okay, well, we've got to tweak something here. But I am curious to see, to your point, Sammy, if they're all shooters, what are we, how are we going to maximize that? How are we going to utilize that? I think screens and rebounds are the answer. Yeah.

Pucks through, men in front. Bobby McMahon's a big body. Do you want to get him down there somehow? Riley off, five forwards. I don't know. But now it's time to get thinking. Yeah. Yeah.

You hope it can break open tonight against Nashville. But if it doesn't, then Bruby's got to start laying the law down. a little bit to your point. Yeah. Do you want to hear Brooby on PowerPlay? Sure. Let's do that. Clip five, please.

Power play in Detroit, they're shooting an attack, and I thought they did the same tonight, you know. Like I said, that's one area of it, that they're doing a good job, but, you know, the Power Play needs to put it in the net. It does, yeah. The other thing, too. He's the coach. We play the coach.

He's the coach. Whether or not, whether or not it's power player five on five, like they got to look hungrier. There's not enough passion still. There's not enough drive for me so far. I know it's only, it's early, but it's kind of, I think, they just think it's going to naturally fall in place.

And sometimes you got to, you got to go force things. Yep, for sure. I didn't like how, you know, you're down. You just lost to Detroit and all of a sudden you're down in the game or whatever and they start to play and they play and they play. And it's like, oh, you have the ability to turn it on? Like it still feels like when they need to try, they will. But not going to try unless they definitely need to sort of thing.

But habits take time to break. Wow, nice there, bro. But you mentioned the heart and aggression. That's what you create when you have two units. where internal competition we've talked with this a hundred times where those got that top unit knows we're out here until the last 10 seconds like you know the second unit or old chris cuthbert drop it's like the second unit gets a look now there's 10 seconds left they know they don't have to rush anything because they're out there

for a minute 40 if you have two units a little urgency you feel like you get to go towards a net more you've had that uh all right do we go to break or you want yeah yeah well i will I'll do game time here then okay can talk about the goal to attending for tonight, which is another new adventure. But it's game time, presented by Bet365. Visit the athlete of sods and see why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus, Ontario only. Please play responsibly.

You guys want to do Jays or you guys want to do hockey? I'll throw in a Jays in the heat of the playoffs. Tomorrow night, obviously everybody knows the stakes. Going to Seattle. Shane Bieber on the mound going up against George Kirby. big spot for the new guy and old Shane Bieber who didn't do so well in the last game three against the New York Yankees.

The Toronto Blue Jays are plus 115 underdogs against the Seattle Mariners who are minus 135 in the money line. This is one of those games that it's a basement game. It's a dark room game. It's one of those ones that you go and you sweat over. I remember the Jays went down 2-0. 10 years ago today, by the way, bat flip.

But in that very series, in that very series, the Jays lost both of the. the first two games at home to the Texas Rangers in very heartbreaking fashion including an extra inning game I was at they went down to Texas on Thanksgiving weekend I remember I remember watching it on my I went to two playoffs

I went to two playoffs in my basement with my parents dark basement game and they found a way to win that game just went on it's a dark basement game so much fun it's a dark base your house to watch playoffs it's a dark basement game baby just get in a basement get the lights off and just grind it's a big one

him talking about a sports viewing experience he enjoyed. Has it ever happened? No. No, I, the thing is. Do you have release snacks? Yeah. Can you get something out of it?

Yeah. No, I sit there, drink ice water. It's just, it's a people, sports fans, baseball fans, they know what I'm talking about. It's one you grind over. You know, there, that's me. But I think, I think the Toronto Blue Jays are going to win tomorrow night. Good. And I think the Toronto Blue Jays are going to win two in Seattle.

I do. I think this team has been going against, listen. Oh, coming back, split. Oh, no, because there's three, there's three there. There's three there. Okay, it's two, three, two. All year long, this team has been, you know, bad. Like, people have been like, they're done.

They're not going to be, they've had these amazing comebacks. They got a lot of character in that room. Unlike you who says, they're a bunch of drunks. They're going to come, they're going to come back. And they say they're a bunch of drunks. I said they look like they're kind of emotionally drained. What I'm saying is I don't usually have any belief. I'm usually the guy that has.

zero belief. Well, and you've had zero belief up till this very moment since I've been with you for three hours. Hey, let me tell you, have I been negative today with the Jace? Yes. No, I haven't. Sam, everything you've said is they're just better. They are better. I regret ever believing.

No, I didn't say that. I was silly to you. I never believed in the first place. Well, what's happening? What's going on? Literally at one point said Detroit was our chance. It was. But that was three hours ago, me.

If everybody was listening to this, no, it's the, the, range of emotions you go through. But I think there's a chance that Jay's win a couple in Seattle. I do. I really do. They're a resilient bunch. A lot of character.

Good. I do two for a lot of character. And guess what? If they win one in Seattle, we only have an hour on Friday. So go Jays go. And that was game time presented by Bet365. This is the athlete of sod.

And see why it's never ordinary at Bet365. It must be 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Or bet 365. That's a listen to Sammy. Can we get to the part where you say our brand again? Dark rooms. All right.

Okay. Wonderful experience. If you're listening, text 59590 about the basement. The dark room basement is the only way to watch this game. And everybody knows what I'm talking about. Okay. We'll take a quick break. When we return, we get into the goaltending situation.

So far, Stolars, been doing his job. It's been very good. It looked awesome. But what happens tonight? The new goalie in town. We'll get into that more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. The best Blue Js show out there, period. Blair and Barker

Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Reminder, this hour Real Kippren, Boren, brought to by Bet365. Nick Kippreels, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee. Tonight, Caden Premu will start against the Nashville Predators

who had Cade. Yay. on their bingo card during training camp. A new adventure tonight. But I got to tell you guys, I like it. Okay. I'm in. You do like it.

Valley has sold me on Primo. You know what sold me most of all is his terrible position, goaltending environment, Valley called it, when he was in Montreal. So basically he was in the worst games to be in as a goalie in terms of trying to put up numbers. And then he's been unbelievable in the playoffs. He stole the net in playoffs last year for Laval,

took them deep in the postseason, only 26. He's big. He's pedigree. If not him, then who? Brubé Clif 6, please, on Primo. Great work ethic in practice. And like I said, he's looked really good in practice. Very comfortable and happy to be here. And, you know, I think, like I said, all I can go off is practice right now.

And we've liked him in practice. His work ethic's been excellent. He's, you know, he's done really, he's done a good job. We've got Alan Iverson somewhere. What else you want? We're talking about practice. He's win a game. Typical kind of what they look for today, big goalie, right?

Big goalie, covers a lot in that. You think coming from an organization like Montreal's to Toronto will help him, you know, kind of. Felt some pressure before? Well, just, you know, these are big markets. Big markets. Will a big market, or at least a media-driven market like Montreal, help him with the transition as he comfortably goes behind Stolars now? Yeah, I mean, I think it helps that he's been exposed to that sort of media pressure,

attention combination. I think it helps that they're putting him in this game, Nashville. Nashville played last night as well. They did. In Ottawa. Nashville on a road back to back. You're putting him in a pretty good spot behind six veteran NHL defensemen. It doesn't sound like he's, I haven't heard Nashville.

It doesn't sound like Sarros is going to go tonight because it's a back-to-back. You know, that can help him in the Leafs. They should win tonight. Nashville's a hardworking team. Like they're, they've got a lot to prove right now. They were embarrassed, if not humiliated, that they went out and signed all these 30 plus something.

Like we had Valley Ask us, who one of the oldest teams was? thought for sure it was Nashville hands down because they're all like 35 year olds but they're playing hard they beat a pretty decent team in Ottawa

yesterday tonight I'll say is the biggest must win it is a must win October 14 second half a back to back against the national predators with their backup goalie at home

Michael bunting this is another this is another niche one for my for my truly fans out there this is a vintage Leafs TV night where it's a crappy out-of-conference opponent coming to the sleepy Scotia bank arena six guys from Ontario in the lineup six guys hey bunting evangelista hag Brady martin Ryan O'Reilly Stephen Stamcoast they're coming first only time to Toronto all year is this a dark basement game for you okay I got to tell you got some dark basement texts if you want to hear them yeah I want to hear a couple of Okay, completely agree with Sammy.

It's time to shut out the outside world and watch alone. My friends think I'm crazy. They may be right. Go, J's go. They are. I sit in my garage and turn on the dark blue lights alone. Did you put a TV on, too? I hope.

I canceled plans tomorrow night so I can watch the game alone in my dark basement, Kyle from Toronto. Now, I want to chime in on one thing. Okay. everyone is too involved like my wife is like when are we watching the game like how are we going to do this we're all doing it my mom's like okay well i'm gonna pop over we'll catch a game my son i'm gonna stay up late yeah i'm gonna stay up later right dad like the jays are playing i'm gonna stab and i'm like yeah that's all the community thing i definitely do appreciate them like let me lock in here oh yeah like i'm not this is no outside noise game this is die nobody's allowed to talk during the game

well the no one i'm with will not talk but i will say No sport sets up drama like baseball. Nothing can hang with every pitch having that buildup. There's build up, and then you wait. Build up, build up, build up. There's nothing like in any other sport. And there's only 15 minutes every other time where only bad things happen.

There's no good thing. It's like, oh, the good part's done. Now we get to go to the bad part again. One of the strengths for the Leafs going into this season was their veteran depth on the blue line. Yes. Okay? So to Valley's point, I would hope that the feeling was we're going to insulate

Kaden as much as we can here and just play good sound, you know, block our shots, make sure we're in the lanes. But tell me what you've seen in the first three games or even coming out of training camp with this group of six because it's one of those things where it should be really truly a strength right now and I'm not seeing what I saw last year there should be chemistry first of all I'm not that comfortable with Morgan Riley and Carlo

which should be your number one pair and I certainly didn't like what I saw at the end of the game against Detroit I think they got to try Riley with Tandav again I know the results were bad when they played together last year I'm stealing a lot of things that Anthony Petrilli and I talked about earlier but that is I think a very viable

idea split up McCabe and Tanev who kind of are the same thing for you the other thing with that is that McCabe hasn't been very good for me. Is he for you? No I don't see a presence

there yet. Who's played well on the D-Corp? Because I think the bottom pair too has really been I mean all Reckman-Marcin on his office. Benoit's struggled for me a little bit too. Well, that's what I mean. That pair of they put Oliver Recman-Larsin on the off-side

to kind of accommodate Ben-W. And we had the conversations 100 times over the past few years about how Ben-W... I mean, Oliver Edwin-Lerson isn't great on his off-side and he continues to be not great. I don't think on his off-side. So the D-Corp in general has... I gotta tell you, though, I love that he's greasy.

Me too. He's the only guy who's like in OEL. He's the only guy after whistles who's got to by the... He's got attitude. He's played with the Panthers for a year. Yeah, maybe. There's just no one else who, like, after the Whist's. whistle is like spearing a guy and grabbing him by the collar and it's like I kind of like that

their skill guy see the the video of Carlos like two and a half minute shift in Detroit where he's he just decides to lie down have you did you see that yeah shot right I don't think I've ever seen that before no no normal I just lie down I think eventually he's like that guy's going to try to pass through the crease so I'll just lie down here for a good half a minute and wait for that to happen that's what what it looked like. Yeah, because the guy was kind of like on the near boards, and he looked like he was going to pass it into the middle,

and he did lie down. It was kind of strange. One of the keys to the two games with Detroit, I didn't know Patrick Kane was 2014 Patrick Kane all of a sudden. Boy, he's still doing shifty stuff out there. Man. I'm surprised how good he looks. How good would he have helped

Bardard the last few years? Oh, no kidding. Like, why? Why would you chase that guy out of town? Yeah. I got a question for you. I asked this on Leafstock. I know what we were talking about,

talking about Kane. When you think of like the best hands ever, if you're thinking about the guys who've played in the NHL, yeah. Patrick Kane has to be like on the Mount Rush more of hands, right? Totally. All hands team. Who else do you think of?

Yeah, Datsu comes to mind. Yeah. Colvlev? It looks a really good one. Anyone else that you think of? you can text us your vote for all hands team this is a fun conversation present day is cooch in the mix oh yeah yeah the the leave breakaway he does

is super slick yeah Austin was there when he was scoring 50 70 goals but he was never like no but it was still it was it was hands and then finding the lane and then shooting it you know what kills me about the breakaway he has the other day is like he wants to use this shot. We know he's got a good shot. He had the quickest hands.

But he could have pulled that to his back hands. He had the quickest hands. And even if it's not to get past a guy in the neutral zone three times, it was still to get it passed to open up a lane to shoot it. They were lightning fast to his hands. But I know what you're talking about. You're talking about stick. handling, pierceding handling.

He was never a guy that, like, in his phone booth is going to undress you. But I actually think that's you guys the best hands of all time. I think so, too. Kane's a great vote. Yeah, Kane, yeah. Robbie Schram. Looking at this Nashville lineup tonight, their top line right winger is Yo Kim, Kemmel.

So in terms of the Leafs having a hole in their top line right wing, I think we've got an equal here. We got Adam Wilsby and Spencer Stassney on D. Oh, yeah. You know, like my point is. Not a big Willsby guy? There's a couple opportunities for the league. just to outmatch Nashville in terms of

who are these guys? Maryland, you all hands team? Oh, geez, good one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He had pretty good hands. They would just... He'd have that radius

of about eight feet around you. He wouldn't be like super quick and tight. He would just... He'd have that that range of like 12 feet around a circle that he could just... You couldn't get the puck. And Yager, too.

Who got... Who did he get on Miner? Minnesota, the one where he goes back. Neil Broughton, no? Wilkins. Oh, is that right? That's, I think, maybe the nicest goal. It's my favorite.

It really is unbelievable. Yeah. And Darren McCarty, a pretty good hands in Oathie that one time. Yeah. Toadragging in the middle. Anyways, I love that conversation. Good votes. McGilney, a lot of texts about McGilney, too, had some sick hands.

So, there you go. Yeah, Bury, not bad. Yeah. So then we're three games in to the Leaf season, and it's an okay time to have overreaching. acting takes. It is an okay time because we got so little info. I don't know about a must win.

I don't care about the result as much as I need the optics of the game. I have not seen remotely any jam out of this team from top to bottom. Yeah. Okay, no jam. I'd like to see some jam. Yeah, jam would be good. So that list of things you want to see. Matthews to score and a goalie.

Like to see Yeah. Yeah. Like to see Willie take control of his shifts. Yeah. Like he needs to skate like we know that he can, have the puck, pull people. Like that's the other thing too is like to make plays. You got to draw people towards you and find an open man.

They have not done that yet. Totally agree. Machelli has, you know, we talked about he's made some plays and you've seen some like, Oh, okay, he could make these passes. He's also had some turnovers, some guessing plays that haven't worked. If you're going to be a skill guy, you can't give him back going the other way. I'd like to see him start to find it, find some of the rhythm or chemistry. Maybe that was part of being a healthy scratch for 30 games in Utah.

Good chance. I don't know. But he's a young kid that can figure it out with 24 or whatever he is. The play he made in the first period of the afternoon game where he just put it on Patrick Kane's tape. Yeah. Trying to make a pass. It didn't sauce.

But still too risky. Across the front of the net. Like, anyways, it's just a little risky. That one is okay. I'd like to see Dakota Joshua be a little bit more physical and like to see the D just look solid. That's... If you're going to be the...

If you're shifting your identity to being like the literal biggest and heaviest team in the league, act like it. Yeah. Right? Run into somebody. Like wear down a decor. Scrums in front of the net.

Like try to be a little greasier if that's going to be your identity. It just feels like the big guys are just not doing anything. Lead all over them. Let them know. lean on I gotta think Ruby's giving them that speech tonight

yeah I do too like I will say because I've been I've tried to look at some of the positives for the expectations for them if they were to go out and just like roll over tonight

and lose one in Nashville at home I'd be that'd be pretty bad I need to score then Leaves win 5-1 4-1 yeah 4-1 yeah

uh yeah I think it's going to be tight game. I'll take the Leafs in overtime. Three, two. I think it's going to be tight. Yeah, Nashville's making a push to be. Yep.

All right. Our thanks to Steve Aliquette. Ooh, the baseball guys are coming in. They're ready to go. Lucy, you got a lot of explaining to do. Thanks for joining us, everybody. Enjoy your games tonight. We're back tomorrow on the Real Kipper and Born show.

Thank you.