Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Tampa Takedown

Episode Date: January 21, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne, and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' 5-3 win over the Lightning—their third straight victory. They discuss how the Leafs' energy has shifted between their three-game losing streak and three-game winning streak, William Nylander's laid-back mentality, Auston Matthews getting closer to 100%, and much more. Later, Sportsnet Leafs reporter Luke Fox (34:06) discusses Nylander and Craig Berube's unique relationship, the team's ongoing search for a blueline partner for Morgan Rielly, Max Domi as a potential trade candidate and why this is the year for Brad Treliving to be bold at the deadline.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, let's get her going here on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. Leaf Hour edition, Nick Kipper, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, Jake Schultz, Toronto Maple Leafs. Did Derek just say something? I never know. We good? General. Jen Rollnick. Oh, Jen Rollnick.

Yeah. Although we should call her General Jen. You know how I feel about this. When Jake Schultz says to me yesterday after the show and I went up to thank him to say, I'll see you tomorrow, buddy. I usually mean it's going to be him tomorrow. That's usually what I go off of. No Jake the Snake Schultz today. So that's usually what I go off of so no cake the

If he got the he's got a cold or he just decided not to come in today But he definitely told me he was gonna be here today So anyways five seconds into the show and I drive it in the ditch. Thanks to Sammy This is how we start at least two shows a week. I feel like with this guy. I never know Well, wherever you are both of them on the lineup every day and you can choose who it is. Choose your own adventure like a Goosebumps novel. Wherever you are rolling your eyes right now on Sportsnet 590 The Fan, Sportsnet 360,

and Sportsnet Plus, we're glad you are with us. The Toronto Maple Leafs became just the third team in the National Hockey League to win 30 games with their 5-3 victory over the Tampa Bay Lightning. Wouldn't call it a dominant 60 minutes by the Leafs, but like many games that we've seen this year, they find a way to get the job done. Yeah, 25 regulation wins. I think last year they had like 33 when it was all said and done or something to that effect anyway. So, humming along at a pretty good clip. I

just Fun hockey lately really enjoyed that game. Was it not? Yeah, I thought it was fantastic a lot of skill just a lot of really good players and you're gonna see a lot of those players in the Four Nations faceoff Come up here pretty pretty soon But I had just a lot of skill in this play. When you're up against that Tampa Bay Lightning team and they turn it on and you try to pack it in a little bit, it's scary.

Yeah. You know, point goes bar down on the backhand there. Nick Paul does his usual things against the Leafs. That was a high stress finish. All right, let's go to Craig Borubi. We'll kick the Kippers Clipper off early here and get his vibe on last night. And then we'll follow up with ours.

First period was really good. I thought we came out, had the right mindset in the game. I thought we played a real good first. You know, they made a push in the second. Had some, you know, rush chances against us, but Wool was good. You know, rush chances against us, but Wolves was good. You know, overall I liked our game. I thought that's a good team with a real good team and I thought we did a good job.

We were down a couple forwards for the third period, so there was basically down to three lines. But, you know, I thought we checked well, did a a lot of good things power play got us a big goal that was a big goal pretty solid effort from our team. The one thing that was missing in that brief three game losing streak was an overall energy out of the hockey club. Yes, and they agree. They've got it back. Yeah, and yeah Is it was it a clean game last night? No Did they give up a few rest chances as we heard from the coach in the second period? Yes, but wall was there for them But the one thing as we have mentioned time and time again over the course of this season is it's

It's not an easy system to play you have to be on top of it You if you're gonna get pucks in play you have to be on top of it you if you're gonna get pucks in deep you got to get on top of them real early Nies is on them early their bottom six is on it a lot better less easy access is out for for their opponents and it just seems like they've they've got that step back mm-hmm yeah you know Matthew, you know, now up to 18 goals. I was trying to think, you know, we talk about left wingers and their deficiency there. When he's like this, when he's, you know, he's back from injury, he's looking really

good. This is a very important piece for them. I think last year, how many goals did Bertuzzi get last year? Maybe 20? A little over 20, I think. I think he snuck 20 in. Yeah, like I think it might have been flat in the 2021. So for Nice to be on pace for 30 is a nice upgrade of the position and

Bobby McMahon looking like a guy who's going to be in the mid 20s or high 20s. Yeah, those are positive steps for them. And then I would say the biggest thing we talk about energy is right now their best players are awesome Yeah, you know like Matthews looks like he has that pop back Nylander is playing well again Marner has continued his hot play up to fourth in the NHL and points So when they're great those three guys we know they can beat anyone at any given night What so what is that the biggest difference for you between the three game losing streak into the three game winning streak? Just the energy like yeah how but how

Does that flip it's just the top guys? No, it's everybody okay? There are they they need to be a hard for checking team first and foremost for me They aren't I get it that they've got game breakers and Matthews and Marner who can love to To go a hundred feet 150 feet and can beat guys one on one and beat a goalie one on one. But their overall team look for me has to be on top of their forecheck and sustaining that type of pressure.

When you get easy outs on them off their forecheck like they did during last week, then they can lose to anybody. But for me, it's that's the look that Borubi wants. I know those rush chances are fun. And they're great when Willy finds 100 feet to skate and shoot it in the net. Every game you mean? Yeah, every game until April, because that stuff kind of dries out and it's more of the stuff that I'm talking about

that I see that will come back into play in April. I mean, Willie did score the biggest goal of that series in game six on a breakaway off a pass from Matthew Nyes back in. There's less of it though. There's no doubt it's not as open. But there's still the open season. It's not like we've seen in the past week. No, of course, but like you still have the opportunity in the playoffs to get a breakaway. It's not like we've seen in the past week.

No, of course, but like you still have the opportunity in the playoffs to get a breakaway. It's not like playing with broomsticks. Yeah, no, it's, you know, he is uniquely special in his ability to read the play, take the chance, be on his way. We've been talking about it a lot lately, but I thought pretty cool that Willie dropped the old... Here, let's just listen to William Nylander clip one from Willie on on the three-game winning streak Amy he's really good at like cheating for offense Really clip one is that actual one from Willie? You're asking you about a pretty interesting streak not long ago

What what should we think about a three-game winning streak now in his team? It doesn't matter But what should we think about a three game winning streak now in his team? It doesn't matter. Yeah, nothing. He means no big deal, whatever. He's just, I believe they call that a callback in comedy. It doesn't really matter. Doesn't really matter. Yeah, listen.

Whatever happens from here on in, we're always going to go back to that clip. Yeah. Like that thing is... It's not a big deal? Sorry? It's not a big deal? What's the big deal? No, no.

It's stuck with him forever. So any winning streak or losing streak, that one will be one that will come up time and time again. But you talk about how people view him favorably, And this is, or generously maybe, this is a great example of how you earn that is that he goes out there and says something that should be insane to say in Toronto in the midst of a three game winning streak.

He goes out, he scores, he scores, he scores, and then he scores in three games, four times. And he says, yeah, we only won three in a row. It's the perfect like, you know, oh Willie, it's perfect. And there's a level of acceptance there that other people would dream to have. Yeah. But you, you know, you're not, you don't skate like him. You don't finish breakaways like him. He's a special talent which allows you to take a chance on saying that.

Yeah. He's, I mean, it's big time, it is. That's big time. Like to say that in the Toronto media, and then to go out and have a, you know, pre-game points streak, winning goals. It's gonna, the judgment day isn't guys, January, February.

It'll be April and May, that's all. But you can say that about literally anything with the Leafs. That's always what we go back to is like, when you're in the day-to-day of it, we always say it's about the playoffs. But nobody's got the stones to say that at any point, is what I'm trying to say. It could be, you know, if you went out there and said,

what's the big deal really, and you lose three more and get blanked and get benched, it could be the start of the end of your career here. And then he'll say, what's the big deal?? And you lose three more and get blanked and get benched. It'll be the start of the end of your career. And then he'll say, what's the big deal? It's only five or six. I mean, you know, but he's got that. I know we talked about Craig Ruby mentioning that he may have lost his confidence. Like can a guy like that who truly knows what he can do on any given shift like that really

lose his confidence? I mean, the yeah, you would think not, but apparently it happens. The idea... Borube loves this guy. Like, you know, you talked about how you thought after they asked him about Willie and he said something like, breakaway man! Yeah, we have it.

Play the clip. Clip five. Borube on William Nylander, Derek. Tonight another breakaway goal, a couple other breakaways. Again, doing... Who?aways. Again, Willie. Breakaway man. When he asked him what you actually talk about, he said you talk about whatever. His ability to get those breakaways, it seems uncanny certainly the last two months.

Well, he reads the play really well and slashes out well on those plays. And then a lot of times, like that last one, he just wins a puck battle. His ability with his stick and his feet are high end. High end. And some of the things I see him do are pretty incredible. Like they said, he gets another one on aaway and Ruby goes who like noses he just like grinning like he loves him telling you the breakaway man nickname. Breakaway man is the world's worst nickname. I love

it. Yeah. They've got like I'm not Willie has got literally like the gruffest toughest guy in one of the history of the NHL be like oh the breakaway man April May that everybody's sitting there going, the breakaway man's at it again. I just, I don't know whether or not, like when things get tightened up, will he pull back from that? Will he read it correctly? Will he be in a position to say when to go and to not go? Because that part of the game isn't for everybody.

And he seems to be better than it than anybody else. Of course. But I imagine that, you know, like Connor McDavid who is faster than Willie. Oh yeah. I'd say. Right? I didn't see him getting too many of those constant breakaways on their quest to a Stanley Cup final.

No. So it's just a matter of how smart will he be when? When the chips are down Connors has the Pac way more right like he's starting and finishing things as opposed to Willie who plays a different wing role yeah odd Rush goals this season second best in the league has eight and Willie's got 13. Yeah, he's it's definitely a clear way He's getting his offense this season. The big line. Unreal eight points.

Yeah, and you mentioned eyes, but Mitch Marner still getting the points comfortably in a top five now in scoring, but did you have him at four or three? It's a fourth. Yeah, yeah. Fourth. And Austin Matthews now, since returning, is on a 65 or 70 goal pace. Yeah, he's got eight goals in nine games or something like that.

So he's back to being that real threat every time he's on the ice. Yeah, to me that's always been like the sign of his, when he's skating through the neutral zone and he kind of picks up speed and he's looking shifty and can shoot it by a goalie, you're like, all right, that's a guy feeling better. I think he had some comments about feeling better,

coming around a little bit in terms of steady progress, he said, with his injury. So that's- Can I ask both of you guys a question? Did you see this coming? This seems like the most, the least likely outcome when we were talking about him three weeks ago. Yeah.

What's that? Like did you think that he would be as quickly as this has happened from what we were talking about with his injury concerns and LTIR conversations, with the flip to him just being normal Matthews within two or three weeks to surprise him to Know at any point not be like this. What are you talking about? Yeah, we talked about him LTI are in him and Playoffs the comments that he made to the media where he's like, I don't know seriously Seriously, not seriously. We're joking. We're just like throwing a tongue-in-cheek. We expected him to come back in and We're joking. We're just like throwing a tongue-in-cheek. We expected him to come back and and

Whatever the nine games were and then the additional six to come back and be who he I was what planet no what no, I did not expect him to come back and be himself Why what were you resting him for? What were you? I was expecting him to come back and look like he did when he came back the time before I was expecting him to come back and look like he did when he came back the time before That's we sat here and said boy nothing changed and he doesn't have it. What's going on? Why is it not getting better? He looks like the same guy Yeah And I didn't expect him to be bad all year. Sure you did. No, I did not no No, absolutely not we considered every option for this guy except he's going to come back and be Austin Matthews

again I think. Yeah, we did have a lot of different conversations. Yeah, no, no, I expected him to eventually be good again. I mean, we're not talking about anything specific. We weren't talking about a brokenness, ligaments here. That was worse. It was like Germany for undisclosed. But he was, call it soreness, call it just not right.

But you know, it was like, it's just when he was physically and mentally ready, you expect him to be back. Ah, geez, I don't know, man. Okay, I mean, that's great. Then I think we had a miscommunication at the time because my impression was we had no idea what it was that was worse than having some clearly defined timeline And I expect to have a nagging something all year, but there was always the chance that you know these

He could never feel better again, but I don't think that their strategy and you know We had Sammy all season calling them liars and this and that and all I've been telling them is that you know, we had Sammy all season calling them liars and this and that and all I've been telling them is that, you know, they don't know, nobody knows. So when you have that, you gotta soar back, you don't feel right, like eventually it should go away, people heal, where was the thought that he'd never come back this year?

Well, we were thinking that he was, I mean, I was worried that he was gonna... I'd like to clear up that we is the collective three of us because there was none of this out of you. I questioned like what the hell was going on with him, but I never thought that he'd not show up all year and look like a 13 million dollar player. I think we were worried too about the pushing it to get ready for the Four Nations face-off. That's definitely a conversation we had where that he has to show that he's ready to play and that he's looking like himself Before the Leafs are like yes, go ahead like we did have that conversation. We said every day if he comes back There's plenty of time to still look good and play in this tournament. We had that conversation

Yeah, don't tell me that we didn't know of course. No, we're plenty of time So I don't know where the big surprise is that he's starting to look like himself again Well, yeah, I you know when someone comes back and says they're able to play they went to Germany they come back and just looked Not right. Nothing changed in my perspective for him to suddenly get right I'm glad that it happened It felt like the wear and tear of a season was going to be the worst possible scenario to get right. But one thing we did say the first time he came back is that he looked a little out of

shape. He was trying to find his legs, get in game shape. Matthews himself had some comment recently about how that's actually helped him find his legs, get in game shape, playing every other day, finding a routine. So it's a big development for them because without him When it's a team built on four players being great without him, you're not winning a cup So this is like, okay The the the best case scenario is back on which is very encouraged

and were you as beliefs were you as excited as Amazon and prime about his Michigan attempt? Did you like it? I have a question for you. What do you have more fatigue of Kipper? Goalie goals or the Michigan? He created a great opportunity from nothing. I think the sign is that he's starting to feel comfortable enough to want to try

something like that. So it just, I think it stems to maybe how, how better he feels now. I thought it was amazing. Right? I mean, when you slow it down, talent aside, that's, that's a great offensive play. He's on his own down there. It's a hell of a save too. It is like it's a legitimate, it almost goes in.

I cannot fathom how good at hockey you have to be to have that thought process. When you see a rolling puck there, pick it up in your stick, get it around the net. Okay, yeah, thank you. And then Nick Paul kind of led up on him a little bit there. Like when he was coming around the net, I thought he could have hit him way harder,

led up a little bit. But yeah, it was an amazing attempt. He said he stopped trying it a couple years ago. I guess it's been a couple years between attempts. We have a clip of him talking about it if you care about it. Oh, sure, yeah, let's have it. Yeah, about the Michigan, clip two. Oh, you know what, I just,

I didn't see any other option, I guess. Like, the puck was rolling, it was beginning of the period, so the tape was fresh, so, I don't know, I almost had it, I don't know. Yeah, I kind of quit attempting those a couple of years ago, but I just thought that was a reasonable attempt. And, you know, had a pretty good opportunity there and almost went on. He does love the stuff play, right?

He loves coming around the net and trying to jam it in. I love that play when he comes swooping around and rips it low on the ice and then somebody in front kicks it out, but. Sometimes. Yeah, I like it. Creates a little drama inside the crease. The one thing watching last night,

I did envision is these two teams playing in a Stanley Cup playoff. And for sure, if it was to start tomorrow, these two teams playing in a Stanley Cup playoff and For sure if it was to start tomorrow you'd make the Leafs Maybe a heavy favorite But Tampa's dangerous boys. Yeah. No, I want they're dangerous as someone rooting for the Leafs to have success I do not want them to see Tampa anytime soon Ideally not round one. I mean the least own them for three years. I listen I know and that's why I would have them

favorites and Right now you like Joseph Wall over Vasilevsky I Think that'd be a I mean when you do that when that's let's keep playing against the Leafs I like Joe all You probably favor their blue line Leafs yeah, but when they when Tampa Bay starts snapping it around the two best players on the ice for me last night No questions bar none Mitch Marner and Braden point

A great night last no, I think he had a really good bunch of pizzas Yeah, I felt like had a really good bunch of pizzas. I felt like the the back end of that leash or that lightning D is actually not I was I didn't think it was great. But you like radish. Okay, obviously, had McDonald's are legit that pervix has kind of become all right. They're leaky. They're just leaky. Yeah, like giving up goals at the last minute and getting themselves in a game and then taking themselves out of a game. They're nowhere near and there's a little bit of fatigue, I think, going on.

Kuturov has moments too where they just... He's obviously amazing. He was not good last night. No. He was not good last night. Braden Point was, but it wasn't enough. But that guy's scary. He's just scary. And he's a world class passer too. Yes. He even like you could see as as off as he was last night. He's still one or two like, oh, you don't have from from from. And

they didn't have one good opportunity to tie the game up last night. They had two Braden points Backhand, I think that dropped on the goal line and then Victor Headman had to get the tying goal. Yeah Blew up. Yeah, he had a tap in empty netter to tie the score up I think it was off a Kucherov pass Yeah, if I'm not mistaken and it just exploded on him and the play Kucherov makes I don't know what point it was but he Point passes it to him and then in stride point goes behind him he does this like backhand behind the back on his stick takes it to the net I'm like They are a terrifying team. Don't get me wrong

Like I don't think they're a team on the decline. Like I think they're underrated as like a true cup contender. I think they have a lot of good players, but in this matchup, the Leafs have just done really well. Like of all the teams that like are quote unquote good that I would like to see in the playoffs, I don't go into a series against Tampa being like, oh my God, we have no chance.

Like it's not like the Bruins or it's not like the Florida Panthers. No, when they were really dangerous, their fourth line there was Maroon, Perry, and Belmar, was it? Yes. They were a very good fourth line there. Bottom six right now is Gergensen's, Geki, Chafee, Isomont, Glendinning, Atkinson. Yeah.

Yeah, it's not. It's not. Gergensen's zero goals through 45 games this year. You'll have to think though, that there'll be getting somebody good. Cobards are a little bear. Exactly. Like, over the years, the draft picks, the first rounders, the prospects, they've gone hard the last few years, including their Stanley Cups.

And you just wonder if it's just not their time anymore. Should we get some updates on players for the Leafs or? Just one more thing on that trading a entire draft class for Tanner Janot probably wasn't the best idea for them. That was stung a little bit. And on the list of guys I'm really excited to cheer for on team Canada, Braden Point is extremely near the top.

Oh my god he's so good. He's so good. He is 27 goals. I think he had it on a string last night Yeah, we talked about the like you always love to say that Barkov's underrated Braden points way more underrated than Barkov is like I think Braden points like not around the league though. Yes for sure Barkov gets the bark of gets a ton of credit. I think Braden points actually underrated He's phenomenal one of my favorite guys a lot watching the league Canadian hockey personified to me. Anyways, what are you saying? I was gonna say that Braden point always looks to me like a guy who used to have a mustache or a beard and then Just shaved it and he just looks slightly off to me at all times. That's my point

It looks like you got a plate on your your Your father-in-law's Islander team. Yeah, there's something about him. He looks like an old school dude, I don't know. Your dad's team for sure. He could have been an easy eighties player right there with Butch Gorey. Yeah, I love that, that's for sure.

All right, let's get an update a little bit on who's out of the lineup these days for the Toronto Maple Leafs, clip seven. He's day to day right now up the body. He won't be in the game tomorrow. Any timeline for John Tavares? No, he hasn't been on the ice yet, so hopefully that'll happen soon.

Get him on the ice and get him going. See how he feels. So I really don't have a timeline for you with that one right now. And Max, that's right? Yeah, he won't play tomorrow. Well, those are great updates. There you go.

Short and to the point. Come on. So Chavarrius is still TBD. Stolarz is skating. Yeah, we have a Stolarz update too if you want to look. Let's have that one. Clip 8. Clip 8.

Clip 8 on Stolarz. Well he's on the ice moving around doing things. Next week might get more active in the net. Start moving going up and down and things like that. So we've got to take it day to day here and see it's all about how he feels and where he's at with his movements. But he's on track. It's better than being on the ice and not doing stuff. Yeah you'd hate to get out there. He's on the ice but he's not doing stuff. Not doing anything. Just being physically on the ice.

Just wanted to see if he could put his skates on. Step one. He's doing stuff. That's good. We got progress there. And people, like media are still asking about Hockenpa. Let's do it. Clip nine, Yanni Hockenpa.

You know, he looked like he was moving well. And again, that's a feel thing for him and where he's at. And you know, I'm hoping that he can keep practicing with us and not have to take two days off and you know again though but that's how about how he feels right but we need to get some consistency there and practice and get him going. How do they get him out of here? No disrespect to the guy who's an awesome guy by all accounts But like you can't practice without taking two days off

They just it ain't working. I'm sorry. Yes, I feel so like What is it? They're so like it just looks like you're really desperate for the guy. Yeah, but are you? Well, that's the thing is like he's healthier, are you sure that he's even in your six? Who's who's he taking out of the lineup? Like if he can't practice three days in a row without his knee blowing up? It's Timmons. It's Timmons. Well, you're like when Myers might be a partner for Riley in the fantasy world scenario. So can we go back to the Tavares thing? I'll ask you guys a question. You mentioned the power play. Yeah. With out Tavares, the power play without Matthews. Yeah. There's, I mean I think if you're Mark Savard you got to be taking note of that. That when one of the guys of who has the puck a lot goes out

it starts to look a little bit better. I mean it was again last night where they're snapping around great. great seemed like everybody had a role I don't know. I just thought that looked good. There's something to it and you mentioned it yesterday and it's watching it last night I'm like there is something to this listen Tons of credit for John Tavares being a pro and having the year that he's having under the circumstances, but you know if if they found a way to, they would have found a way this summer to get that 11 million out and that space, you know, whatever it could be, even if they had to eat some of it, if you had six or seven or $8 million right now. It looked pretty good right now.

You know, it's tough too, Kip. You scored 20 times already this year. You know, you gotta find those goals somewhere. Yeah, I know. They found them this week without them. Fantastic when Matthews was out, for a huge stretch of the season. No, I know, I know.

I'm just saying though that, that, you know, one of the things that they're challenged with, with many other teams, is how do you get better against a cap that's still pushing up against many contending teams? But yeah, it's just they're pretty good team without them now. Yeah. I mean, it's a tough spot, right? Because he's an important player for them and a good player for them and all those nice

things. But in a cap world, you're always judged against value. Are you giving value on the dollars they're spending on you? Really tough to give value on 11 million. You have to be exceptional. I'll just go ahead and say that they're good with him too. And he was really good for the whole year. Maybe he's one of his best years as a Leaf until he got hurt.

He was really good. So, I I mean they're just like they're a good team when Matthews went out They're great when he went out there great like it's just well this has to like, you know You were one of them many about These four guys cannot come back. You can't win with them and you know, it's still unproven whether you can. But they're clearly gonna have another crack at it. Yeah. Right? Oh boy are we. And you definitely do feel better about the core four

now than you ever have before. Not true, I don't think. Well then what are you telling me that they're a really good team with him still there? Cause they've been a really good team for eight years, they just can't get over the hump. Like they've been an excellent regular season team. This is not what the regular,

it's not the regular season we talk about, it's the playoffs. All right. Anyway, that's what I'm talking about. If you had a different salary cap right now to maybe change it up a little bit. That's all. Yeah, but you don't.

You don't. What, any update on Marner contract? They talking? You hearing anything? I have no idea. No? No idea. None. Does that worry you? Does that concern you? I thought we were in the position of you get

knocked out in the first round, he's gone and if he goes deep he can get his contract and everybody lives happily ever after. Yeah, that is. You know, just curious if you think that you think they would try to sign the guy who's going finish with a hundred and fourteen points this year Whatever you think you'd make an effort But why because you're scared He'll know leave yes. No not not scared so much. He'll leave just scared that I can't replace him You know, it's like I don't know where you get those points. So I feel the same with the bars It's like if you can't replace them, then you're scared that he may leave.

Sure, if that's how you'd like it to sound. Yeah. But, you hold him at true value or is he pulling the Tavares on the islanders that want to be here but I don't want to be here? What are you asking me? Has he said that he wants to be here? Yeah, he did. You still believe he wants to be here and sign here because that's what he said. I'm just comparing it to Tavares who told the Islanders that seven years ago

Yeah, no, I believe that Marner wants to be here and wants to sign. So I don't know. I don't know about needing to Sign them now then yeah. No, that's fair enough. I mean just remarkably quiet about it saves it Yeah, it's a big player who is you know, the, we're just kind of going through the year to UFA. And I think for the Leafs, it does make it easier for them. It's like it either works and we move on or it doesn't and we don't. And then it's the same thing where you have all that salary cap space and you figure it

out from there. But like Sammy said, good player gets lots of points. The nightmare scenario is you go deep and he's excellent and he still leaves Yeah, where it's like he's at the peak of his powers. He finally breaks through and you can't get him under contract That's when the true nightmare scenario comes in. He wants to be here. Are you surprised? he's having this type of season under a year where He's not sure about nobody's sure whether or not he's gonna leave or not not in the slightest This is a contract year. He's been this player for the past few years, you know, it's kind of the same year, right?

he's on pace for I Don't know 20 goals and a ton of points go different ways for different guys though. Yeah, whether it's a Willie lit it up It's these guys. It's contract. I just think I see it's really good. Yeah, whether it's a Willie lit it up, it's these guys that's contracting stuff. I just think he's really good. Yeah. He's just really good. And it's just the Pac Anderson and a lot of work. Prime year. Yeah.

Absolutely. Okay, take a quick break. I just got a tweet. I don't wanna know if this is true or not. This is from Jack Frost on Twitter. It seems to me over the last couple days the boys on Real Kipper and Born seem to be really getting under each other's skin.

Call me crazy. That's what it seems like to me. You think that's true, boys? I don't at all. No, I would say we're equally as much under each other's skin as always. So we're doing okay. Like, is this your first day listening to the show? JB brings me chocolates every once in a while, every day.

Yeah. Just want to make sure we're all good, boys. Yeah. Well, Sammy, if we're going to get into the record. Here we go. If we get into the record. If I can't say me From what I can see on the internet I'll have to do the marsha and I best friends will send you a photos of us We'll settle it all up during the commercial break here. When we return, Luke Fox, here's one guy we don't get along with from Sportsnet.ca. We'll get Luke's thoughts on the Leafs and more when we return to Real Kipper and Born.

Hey, it's Blake Murphy. And I'm Matt Bonner. Join us weekday mornings at 11 as we break down all things Toronto Raptors. It's The Raptor Show on Sportsnet 590 The Fan. And wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the Real Kipper and Bourne show Nick Kiprio's Justin Bourne and Sammy McKee. Jen Rolland in for Jake Schultz. I found that out right right at the beginning of the show better late than ever Alright, the one thing that's true

Luke Fox is joining us from sports.com. He didn't cancel out on I hope I hope he's there. Is he there? Luke I'm here. I'm here What's going on So Luke, what's going on? Well, my sister covering a winning hockey team again. Oh man. And that makes your job easier or less interesting? Less interesting, I'd say. It's crazy, there's so many games.

I was gonna say, there's so many games you can follow a winning and a losing team in the same week. Yeah, yeah. But you know what? All three of those games were fun games to be at fun games to watch. None more so than a Saturday night at the Bell Center because that crowd was on fire. Both sides. Really fun, really fun atmosphere.

Was it your question that led to the Willie Nylander? What's the big deal? No, that wasn't that wasn't mine. Well, that's one of the few that you don't ask because you always find a way to get yourself in trouble. But I, I do love this guy, man. He is a fun guy to cover, because he hardly says anything. It's usually one or two sentences tops. But so often those sentences are quotable. So it helps.

It helps us with our job. But you know what? He flipped it. He flipped it in reverse. Like he says, it's no big deal when they lost three. And he said the same thing after last night's win. He's like, it's only three games. I think, you know, being in the league a while now, he has better perspective than most.

He's not riding the roller coaster. And I think for sure us media types do, because we got to live in the news day, right? And a lot of fans, I know Sam is guilty of this, they ride it, right? Yeah. Yeah, but a guy like Nylander, I think this deep in his career especially, he has perspective

He's really just thinking and he had he can say whatever he wants. He's got the contract security He's confident in his talent You know, he's scoring a ton of goals and and I think he really is just thinking big picture and looking at the playoffs. I was just gonna say and and and he's he's got Ruby like engaged almost like Berube's trying to figure him out not the other way around. That's what usually happens your players look behind them and go Oh my god What do I got to do to kind of get this guy to notice me or use me more that's like it's the opposite

between those two Yeah, well who has more security? I and I know Brevet just started on on the job But I think Brevet smart enough to realize That this team and he is as a coach Trying to win a second cup. He's only gonna go so far as These top three four guys are gonna go So he's trying to figure out how do I get the most out of them? How do I get them to trust me and? Ruby has a really good way about like he's incredibly positive, especially publicly Who knows what he's like behind closed doors like if, if he does rip into guys a little bit more individually, but in talking from guys who played with them in St. Louis,

most of them, they loved them. Um, so what really stood out to me is, you know, the blues come into town and how many guys were like giving them a hug or having a real chat, like look genuinely happy to reconnect with them. And maybe you say, Hey, they want to come together. Of course, like he's always going to be, you know, they're going to be bonded for life because their names are, are asked into that thing under 2019. But the way they spoke about him, guys like Shen and stuff, you've got a real sense that they bonded with

their coach. And I think that's what he's trying to do here. And he's just, you know, Lauds, knee-lander with praise, doesn't rip him when he went through that slump. And I think that's A, smart, and I wonder if it's part of his strategy coming into this too. Luke, when you watch these games, you know, there's, there's a lot of games in an NHL regular season where the fellas got the

malaise, um, you know, and I'm not talking with the Leafs. I'm talking about the NHL schedule. It's condensed, it's busy. Um, there's not always the same emotion. Do you, do you feel sometimes grateful to cover a team where there is talent like the Leafs have and they can turn it on like that? Like games are kind of never out of reach. I think it about that Montreal game You know playing against the Lightning Boston on January 4th Like this team hat really does have an ability that I don't know if we're all doing this show in 10 years from now We'll have the luxury of getting to to watch performances like we've seen lately

will have the luxury of getting to watch performances like we've seen lately. Yeah, and that's a great point, Justin, because you can fall into the trap of saying nothing matters so playoffs. And that's true when it comes to their legacy or maybe how they go down in history. There is a great risk of us looking back and them looking back, more importantly,

and saying, man, they really could have had something, but it was a bit mismanaged or they didn't show up in the right times. And it could go down as one of the most talented collection of players to not get it done. But the flip side is the ride is pretty entertaining. Nights like Saturday, that is a fun night where you're like, this is a cool job I have.

Any fan that was in that building that night is probably like, I would have paid double for that ticket. The highs and lows, the highlights, the theater, even little things like Jack Eye waving off Reeves. It's good theater and the energy in the building in those big games So, you know that there's still like moments whether it's a Willie breakaway or Matthews trying to Michigan Like there's still things that happen with this team that you know, if you're in that mushy middle You're not getting a lot of fun nights at the rink. I'm confused. So there is value in 82 games during the regular season?

Yes, yes there is. What is going on with you? Well, I'm saying there is. You have to enjoy the ride and enjoy the process. And there should be, and you know, there should be value like, like look at the McCabe-Riley pairing, right? There's value in the coach trying to figure out if something else works.

Because he's already checked the box of, I have a real shutdown pair in Canov and McCabe, but it's come a little bit at the expense of my other couple pairings. So can I get something else going? So there's value in experimentation too, I would say. As minutes were up last night, I think Morgan got back up towards 20. How much behind the scenes do you think there is a focus on getting Morgan going outside of just changing the pairs up? Well, I think there is.

For sure. I mean, just that. I mean, I mean, the best example is probably looking at at the pairs because they've tried almost everyone with them. What I'm curious about is, do they go external? And you know, like they've done it in the past with Luke Shen and Ilja Lubuskin twice. And, you know, Philip Myers, like they've done it in the past with Luke Shen and Ilya Lubushkin twice. And you know, Philip Myers, like, can you guys envision three, four rounds with Philip Myers as his partner?

I can't. No. So do they go external and try to look for help, even though their primary target, and I think it should be their primary target is a three C that can hopefully play to see in a pinch. Um, but do they spend the assets and try to get a better partner for Riley, uh, and help them out of this. And really that's what it is. It's like, they're given this guy, they're working with them, right?

Instead of just putting them on blast and saying he needs to be better. We haven't heard any of that. If anything, it's like he's being a good team guy. He's taking his demotion off the power play in stride. He's gonna do everything for the team. And now maybe it's the team trying to pay him back with trying to get him going. Speaking of getting guys going, last night Max Domi plays, I think it was 11 minutes,

three goals on the season There's an article in the athletic right now by the excellent Harmon Dayol and Chris Johnson That says 10 under the radar trade candidates, you know, they're falling out of favor Max Domi's on the list he's a guy right now who You know is struggling to find a clear role with this team if he's not top six and he's not a defensive specialist and he doesn't kill penalties. How, what's the status of Domi? We know that he can slot up and down the lineup,

but it hasn't been great so far this year. No, it hasn't been great. I mean, he has as many goals as he has years left on this deal too, three. Right. And I know he's primarily a facilitator, but, you know, it's got to be a little bit humbling when you're an important division rival game like Saturday's, and you get your spot taken over on Nylander's line by Pontus Holmberg, who was recently healthy

scratched for a bunch of games. And you're supposed to be, if not core core adjacent, like tier two Maple Leaf, like we made a commitment to you in the off season, uh, they wanted to shoot more, they wanted to play more in middle life and not be stuck on the perimeter. I think he's, he's fought confidence. He's never admitted that to us, but just the body language. Uh, I think he's fought confidence. He's never admitted that to us, but just body language. I think he's fighting confidence. You can tell by his ice time that there's been too many nights that Borubay hasn't liked his game. He's had some bad turnovers in his own end. It's been a struggle. And the irony is he's never had so much security. Like this is his longest commitment he's gotten from a team ever in his whole NHL career,

longer than even his entry level at three years. So they need to make it work. I mean, sure, sure. Maybe he's a trade candidate. I just don't know what team, you know, an opposing team that is out there saying we need Max Oli right now. I just don't know what you're going get from yeah, I feel like you'd be trading a mat at low value No, it would Luke it would have to be part of a bigger

Puzzle bigger pitcher meaning Money and money out and He makes significant money. Whereas that if you were going to move them, you'd move them with also pieces that are enough for another team to say, I'll take on that contract. And that's the way it would work. Probably when you're still dealing with the team that wants to

get a center man. And to your point earlier, maybe a defenseman so To me I look at this Eastern Conference Luke and I go like I get it that there's been a build-up up until this moment and a lot of disappointments, but just played a team that Scared me in the past and we beat them again a Florida team that isn't nearly as strong on the blue line that they were when they won

the Stanley Cup and I'm pushing my chips in this year man and it'd be possible last few times it came to like this is the year it's not as scary I agree with you Nick and that the East seems decidedly like the much weaker conference. Their goaltending hasn't been this good in decades. I agree with that. I agree with that notion. I just wonder, and I think you, Trey Living should be willing to be bold in his meetings with us. I haven't got the sense,

and maybe he's just tempering expectations, but I haven't got the sense that he's willing to use one of his three big pieces. Cause I think there's only three pieces. He has to. Like, Minton Cowan. That's like the 26th first Minton or Cowan. What else does he have that people really want?

Well, depending how big of a piece you want, you may have to pick one. All right, Luke, thanks for joining us, pal. We really appreciate it as always. All right, have a good one, guys. Thanks, Luke. Luke Fox, sportsnet.ca. Boys, that's another thing I wanted to say earlier

and I didn't get around to it, but. I interrupt too much, but. Yeah, you gotta look at this East and go right now. If you were to pick an odds on favorite to come out of the East in the Stanley Cup final, I know Washington's Washington and they've had a heck of a season. But that Metro is yeah, right. I'm Toronto, maybe Florida. You're still going

Every year right this is not a year's gonna be no outside of that. Like the Leafs are right there. They're right there. So just Know that you're you're okay, but you can get a lot better here and deeper like Tavares out again Reminds you of Matthews and then Holmberg out again reminds you of Matthews and then Holmberg. Okay, raise your hands who likes that going in to try to win no three rounds if Tavares gets lost with another injury in the spring. I'm good with that. Yeah, no, you need better.

You need better. So Domi has a no trade to 13 teams. So you can be traded to 19 teams according to my math. You can see that as a possibility. It's a long way off. You're not trading him for one for one anywhere. Right. You're not trading him to trade him.

You're trading him if you think you can improve. Personally I don't think he's going. I don't see it unless you have to move money out to bring in a big contract in. And teams would be in... You got to play with good players. We watched Sheldon Keefe figure it out last year, and now we're watching another coach try to figure it out. You put him on the third line with not great players, you lose him.

You put him on a good line with the good players, he's good. How many times do we have to do this? Yeah, but then you've got a guy who you're propping up. I agree You know, it's like with Nylander you put him with Bobby McMahon and Paul just Holmberg and that lines dynamite I agree, you know, I totally agree with this but we know What makes them good? Yeah Okay. Thanks to Luke Fox who just joined us moments ago Plenty to still get into in the national hour.

Besides the Vancouver Canucks story, I won't go away. Life without Austin Matthews for not two games, which both Sammy and I said, no brainer, but two, three. Okay. We get it. That's it, eh? From you? Well, we're going to commercial break. Okay. I'll get much

deeper into my thoughts on Conor McDavid. And also Steve Alesquette, who's done always a terrific job, CEO of Clear Sight Analytics. We'll get his thoughts on what he sees around the National Hockey League. Always an entertaining segment. Don't go away, we're back after these words.