Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Tavares' Full-Circle Moment

Episode Date: December 12, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with the Leafs' overtime loss to the Islanders, John Tavares reaching 1000 points in dramatic fashion and his reception back on Long Island. They continue with overall impressions of the game - Matthews starting to play with more urgency, a potential shuffle coming to the defensive pairs and a rough one from Samsonov. Finally, Rangers & Isles columnist for The Athletic Arthur Staple (33:18) discusses why Islanders fans are right to keep a grudge against Tavares after all these years and tees up tonight's matchup between the Leafs and Rangers.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

we are right back at you on the real kipper and born show wherever you're watching and listening sports at 590 sports at 360 sports at plus from 4 to 6 p.m we're glad you are aboard. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, Jen Rolnick. For the next two hours, Toronto Maple Leafs may have fallen to the New York Islanders in overtime, but John Tavares stood tall last night, scoring his 1,000th point, only the 98th player in history to do it, against his former team to boot. Yeah, he did the thing. Didn't start off great for any one of them, including John Tavares,

but man, did he kick it in in the back half of the game. Yeah. I was glad to see him get it done glad i was so nice that we didn't start up with otani i thought for sure i thought for sure we were talking about it upstairs and i was like oh i don't want to do this today i don't want to say i thought for sure the first thing you'd be like how about that contract he's making two bucks a year for 100 million years it's great for what john tavaris went through last night yes there's not a chance I'm starting the show with Otani over the captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs today.

Thank you. No, it was great. First off, very good hockey game last night from an entertainment standpoint. I thought Islanders fast, Leafs looked pretty good. I enjoyed the game. Ever? No? Oh, gosh.

I saw sloppy. Well, you know. Sloppy, entertaining sloppy entertaining yeah entertainment value maybe not i'm with you on that there's action there's turnovers there's chances there's yeah a little sloppy but i thought a fun game to watch a lot of energy and pace i'm with you on that um yeah for tavara is obviously the talking point uh from the night you know everyone kind of got what they wanted out of the night. Obviously, the Leafs wanted two points, but John hits his milestone on Long Island.

The Leafs get a point out of a game where they're trailing by a couple goals. Islanders fans get to stomp out the flame in overtime after they cleared the benches nine seconds earlier. Highly entertaining night. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. I thought the reception for Tavares, I thought all of that was awesome.

I just, I respect a grudge. I really do. And they did not waver. No, they stuck to their guns. They put up that, and hey, we mentioned it. We talked about it yesterday, if they would do it or not yeah and a huge kudos to the islanders for the classy gesture i mean he did get how many he gets 600 and something points with them 69 all along the island kudos to them for doing that but like the boos were deafening when it was up there and they did

just blow a lead with four seconds left in the game, so they're probably sour about that. So it was pretty good, I thought. Just to follow up what you just said, Sammy, in about half an hour, we're going to have Arthur Staple, New York City hockey columnist, covers the Rangers and the Isles for The Athletic. Who wrote an article called

What Everyone Doesn't Get About Islanders Fans Booing John Tavares. Yeah, and I'm going to go after him a little bit on this one. Oh, boy. Oh, great. Yeah, because prior to last night, I'm with Sammy a little bit here. You pay your 200 bucks. You can boo.

That's fine. But I'm leaning towards watching last night going okay enough i'm shocked i'm honestly shocked by that yeah this is a zag no it's not a zag really it's not a zag it's it's it's okay to boo but then i'm watching kind of like the human aspect of it. I thought it was great television watching John's dad. Oh, just like a stoic roofer having a moment. I think it got me. Yeah. It got me.

It was hilarious. Dad and his son. He teared up. A full circle moment. The guy spends nine unbelievable years there. He gets his first point as a New York Islander, and then he caps off 1,000 there. And I'm watching a dad in the stands with that emotion, that passion.

You know what else I saw? I saw a dad wearing a jacket over his jersey because he was too scared to show that his jersey had 91 and Tavares on the back. No way. No, hold on. Hold on. That's not why. Yeah, it is why. You think so?

No. I know so. He doesn't want to hear it from people there? It's beyond hearing. He's got to walk into a suite. He's got to go through. He's not... You think he's going to wear a Tavares Leaf jersey through the corridor to get up to the suite

and not fear a little bit for his safety? So I don't think you're wrong. He's in the suite at that point, right? But you think that's why it's there? I mean, it's a good point. I wouldn't want to wear at least 91 through there. No way. Thank you.

I thought he had his jacket on because he was going to rip out of there for a dart as soon as the game ended. Listen, it's okay to boo, but when you start feeling like you're nervous or you're worried about your safety, that's where I draw the line. Okay. Yeah, I mean, if that's why he's got the jacket on,

then I think that's a fair point. It is. It's interesting to hear you say that about, you know, are they ready? You know, like, has it gone on long enough? Six years. But Arthur's point in his article, which we're going to get to today we'll talk more about it is that we don't get it here in toronto and he'll tell us why we should get it we love to boo people here we live to boo people here we booed ryan o'reilly the other night he was here

for a week you can't even compare that or anything else to what John's gone through every year since he's returned there. It's not even close. It's not even close, Sammy. I guess you're looking at it from a player's perspective, and I'm looking at it from a fan's perspective. It's two completely different things. Like watching the game last night,

I didn't love it that they were still booing him of course i don't love it but i completely understand it and i would be doing the same thing so i can't sit here and lie like it's just i've made the point they're booing them they deserve to boom they can do whatever they want but it's they hate them there's an intimidating factor that's gone beyond just the booing do you think it's a forever thing yes you'd never know what he did was not that egregious i mean geez louise he you know he went somewhere else as a free agent i know and that's my first thought and then i read uh arthur's article and then he reminded people that john probably painted a picture of.

They wanted to trade him. I will stay. Don't trade me. I'm going to stay. Yeah. And that's the sore spot. For sure it's the sore spot. For sure.

You know. And a very similar situation with Matt Sundin here where they were wanting to trade him at the deadline. They were floating around the playoff line at the trade deadline. There was rumors that they were going to trade him at the deadline. They were floating around the playoff line at the trade deadline. There was rumors that they were going to trade him. He said he just wasn't going to waive his note trade. He didn't want to go anywhere. He wanted to see it through.

And then the next year, he didn't sign here, and people felt badly about it. And people love Matz here. Now, yeah. And he's welcome back, and he can walk to center ice and hold his head up high. Yep. To this day, we still see Sundin jerseys in the crowd.

Yeah, I know. Where is John Tavares 10 years from now? Do you envision him walking out at center ice and getting a warm reception? I think it's a great question. Because after six years, I say no. I think something has to happen i think like what no way that's a good drop he might have to there might have to have to be some sort of public reconciliation oh my god you know that's just over the top right now it's just ridiculous

first off great goal his third goal in long island now right through the through the legs tip that was nice really nice nice. Play well. Really nice. And then, you know, cheeky thousands. So stick around for Arthur Staples because we got some tough questions to ask him. Oh, I'm regretting this every minute. That's great. Good get today off his article, Sammy.

Hey, Arthur, you want to come on and tip the Rangers game tonight? How are you? All right, let's jump right into our first Kippers Clipper of the Night on John Tavares from Sheldon Keefe. I don't think I could put it into words. I can't. It's hard to fathom even just having a son play in the NHL, let alone be the captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs

and get 1,000 points and still going to play in the league a long time. So it's pretty, pretty special, pretty, pretty remarkable. And, you know, like I said, it's, I'm glad that we could, we could have this moment here with him. And, you know, it was good to see, you know, he's got a lot of former teammates on the other side. He got a chance to acknowledge him as well. I thought that was very respectful and well done of the Islanders organization.

And, you know, it was good all the way around. Like I said, I wish we could have got the second point there. We had our opportunity, and they had theirs. And that's the way it goes. But that's another good point for us. So, no, it worked. We've got a couple of those clips. So we're good there, Derek.

As far as doing the right thing, the Islanders acknowledged it, which was great. Yep, some guys banging on the boards from the Islanders bench. What it probably felt like was the timing could have been better to let it breathe a little bit. It just seemed incredibly

rushed going into three on three. Yeah, well, it's like my exact thoughts. Like it's just bad that it because it was the elation of tying the game, right? Where Riley's like, holy crap, the puck landed on my stick in the perfect spot.

And then the realization while he's coming around, then he's like, oh my God, that bounced off John. And then everybody kind of figuring out that that's what was happening. Then everybody coming off the bench... The late start to the celebration. It was like, oh, everyone comes off the bench. It was like, oh my God, it's three on three overtime right now.

And oh my God, two and one, bing, bar down. It happened so fast. It's almost like when T everyone comes off the bench. It was like, oh, my God, it's three on three overtime right now. And, oh, my God, two on one, bing, bar down. It happened so fast. It's almost like when Tavares scored the overtime winner to win round one and then round two was over. You know, it was that like, you know, you didn't get time to appreciate the great thing that happened because so quickly you're on to the next thing and then it got away from you. A little bit of a metaphor for great moments for John.

Last week, I think you were the first one, Sammy, to mention that if he doesn't get it Thursday or Saturday, it's setting up for 1,000 at the Island. Yeah, Sammy called it four games. Yeah, I was sniffing around it. Yeah, I'm just wondering, like, I think it could have been a better moment without all the booing. Would he have much preferred it to happen in Toronto

where it could have been much... I don't think so. No, you think John was okay with it? I actually think it might be the start. If he had a choice. It might be the start of defrosting some of the tension with Long Island. We're going to have Arthur on today. We're going to talk about it.

It's like, can we work through this breakup here? You're such a positive guy. We're going to be the marital counselors and and be like let's just sit down and really think about how how this is we're gonna work through it here together okay yeah i just i think you know the situation and how it all played out and it happened fast but you know john devars is legitimately the most professional human on earth like there there is not, he talks to media every day for five minutes for five years and he's literally never said one thing wrong. It's really amazing. Like truly, he said nothing. For five years straight, five minutes every day talking to

all these people and never said anything out of turn. It's amazing. It truly is. But there's no way the treatment there doesn't piss him off. Like there's no way he's not talking to his dad after talking to his wife, talking to his friends, being like, you know, it does hurt. It does hurt.

Yeah. And for him to have that moment there, he can rest his head on the pillow and I'd be like, oh, obviously that was a great honor to his wife and be very happy. I thought the first 25 minutes tremendous honor.

Thank you. I thought for the first 20 minutes it looked like it was affecting him. Like the guy steps on the ice. He always does when it's there. He's not even, he doesn't even have to have the puck. He just steps on the ice

and it's just a rain of booze. Yeah. Like that must suck. Love those, those people are committed. But, you know, the Islanders fans are not.

He's not a villain. That's the thing. Yeah. He's not. He doesn't have the personality, boys, to be like, I'm a villain. I'm going to go in there. He's not going to, like, shush the crowd. He's not thriving.

He's not that kind of guy. Off of it. Of course. So, but I think he'd be happy to get that moment there. And he would do a huge thing on Thursday for them. Like, a thousand points. He'll get a standing ovation. Like, they'll do the whole thing when they get back here. Yes points he'll get a standing ovation like they'll do the whole thing when they get back here but it's just not the same

as getting it on the ice I guess. So let's have a quick are we good on that? We're good. Just one other thing because you mentioned this in our one time that we did speak to each other before our show. I enjoyed that it was nice. And it's been well noted in the internet about

Paul Marner's reaction. Yeah. That's a large topic in group text today. It's a large topic. I mean, I got texted a lot about Corey Perry. I got texted a lot about Paul Marner's reaction. People care. Oh, yeah.

Why? Because they think he's not celebrating. He doesn't care about the team's fortune because mitch didn't get the point they are reading into something that they're just guessing on 100 and i i don't know what happened i don't know what he's reacting to i don't even know what he's he might be paying attention to something totally different on his shoe something he could have been watching a fight. We don't know. Yet people want to link this to the fact that his son didn't play an integral part of the play. Therefore, I'm not happy. It's ridiculous.

I find it ridiculous. I mean, maybe he's just like an older grumpy guy. I don't know. Maybe there's no concept. He's just like, I don't know. I know older guys that are just kind of grumpy sometimes. I talk to my dad enough. They can just be grumpy.

Yeah. Like you, Kip. It's just really like there's just anything that people need to grab. Yeah. I mean, I got messages in different chats and stuff just being like, what do you make of this? And it's like. Nothing. I make nothing out of And it's like... Nothing.

I make nothing out of it. I don't know. Well, that's, I don't know, you know, but it is, I would say, depending on how people feel about Mitch, they will extrapolate that to make it about Mitch or Mitch's family or whatever. And there is a CBC thing on the internet

of him when Mitch was a kid and there's all this preconceived notion, but you don't actually know. Unless you're friends with Mitch Marner, unless you're innocent, you don't actually know. So it's hard to speculate on this. So there's a preconceived notion out there about Paul Marner.

We don't need to get into it. I'm just saying like that paired with what people think about him, seeing that video. I think you're making a very good point. There it is. Excellent point by you, Sammy. Just reiterate for anybody that does social media, do not speculate. What's left?

Apparently, that can come back to bite people. No comment. You're shutting down the whole internet. They won't know what to do, Sammy, if they believe you, to don't speculate. I would never speculate on anything, guys. That's not me. Okay. An overall view of the game outside of John Tavares' contribution last night

was that they continue to build off a Saturday night or last night looked more like probably 70% of the games we've watched this year from them because I lean towards the latter. I, you know, I thought Islanders had a lot of pace in the first period. I think high danger chances in the first period were something like 10-3 for the Islanders. So it was, you know, they were on their heels and made some mistakes. But like, you know, Marner had two sort of pseudo breakaways

to start the game. You know, Islanders making some mistakes too. And then over the course of the game from then on, I thought the Leafs were pretty darn good. They took over, I thought, the last two periods. They controlled. The one thing I guess that I was really impressed at, which we haven't seen from them,

they seem to have the puck in the offensive zone a lot. I think they had six and a half minutes of like actual ozone, puck possession, five on five time, which is a lot i think they had six and a half minutes of like actual ozone puck possession five on five time for me a lot for them there was a lull for the leafs is from maybe the 10 minute mark in the first period until the 10 minute mark of the second period and they got the goal score scored on them in that part of the game to me that's they were good the rest of the time but that was kind of a killer when they get hemmed in their own zone it's it lasts a lot longer yeah than what we've seen in the last few years yeah they don't kill plays as well benoit i think does a good job at that but sometimes somebody's just kind of chasing the puck

it's a very puck focused team i feel like and you know offensive zone they take a lot of chances with the puck i feel like trying to make plays into the middle. That's a personnel thing. You think about who used to be in the bottom six, right? It was a lot more defensive-minded guys. There's like Hall and you usually have Geo in. Yeah, and, you know, Kerfoot and back-ass Reese and guys. Let's go to Sheldon Keefe on his overview of the game, clip two. You know, I thought we were at times really good,

at times on our heels. Credit to the Islanders. I thought they played very well tonight. They made life really hard on us. It was a difficult task to get out of our end in that first period especially. Breaking out was a real challenge for us against their forecheck pressure.

I thought the second period, I thought we were fine. I thought through most of the third period we were good. It was just hard to get things to the net. But our six on five was terrific. We probably should have scored far earlier than we did. When you hang around like that in the game and then the six on five goes out and performs the way that it did, just like our power play, we only had one power play and it comes through for us. The refs were letting lots go both ways here in the game.

So you kind of waited for your chance in six on five, and the guys came through. And again, credit Tavares. Did he win three draws in a row? Four. Lots of face-offs. Against a good face-off guy in Peugeot. Like, cleaned him out.

Yeah. Like, snapshots back to the blue line. Our hockey puck. That was pivotal for sure. It's funny. The power play thing. We never really talk about refs on this show, which is one of my favorite things about all of us. We never really whine or talk about refs. I love the standard when it's one penalty each.

Unless it's egregious, and I didn't feel like anything was egregious last night, just let it go. There just such a better flow to the game than when you're calling a million penalties one team shorthanded like i thought it was a good standard last night so yeah agreed uh i thought at times part of the the issue is when the leafs don't get out cleanly it's the lack of depth on the blue line yeah and I think it showed a little bit last night. I don't know how many minutes Connor Timmons played last night, but I think he scares a few people back there.

I will say, so there's two parts to being an offensive player when you're a defenseman. One is knowing where the most dangerous place to move the puck is for your team offensively. Like knowing where, having dangerous place to move the puck is for your team offensively like knowing where having that offensive sense and then the second part is the risk assessment yes of what are the odds of me making that play timmons has a eric carlson like ability to know where to get the puck to the most dangerous place he knows where it is zero ability to assess said risk he

just takes the chance so he turns pucks over and he creates a lot for both teams he was 18 minutes last night yeah so like he moves it to great places but he he moves it there for the other team when there's people in the way so it's just this huge high event risk guy and it's never going to be different than that this is who he is people like yeah he's you know since his injury he's no he's been this guy and you talk about one of the favorite things table players like you give and take it just feels like it's a lot more take like i know what does he probably have i think i saw somewhere that he has 17 points in his however many 30 something games he's played like he does

produce yeah but he also produces like what does he have points for the other team? It's just, he really, you laid it out perfectly. Like, the risk assessment with him, it's just he's playing way too much. He is spittastic on Nolan. And you just notice him. He's always, like, you feel like he's coming back on the play so much. Like, you see the back of his jersey all the time. It's just he's not an aesthetically pleasing guy. No.

I'm under the impression that Lilligren's day-to-day. There could be a chance he could play tonight. No. He's that close? I think he's close. I do. He's been skating. That would go a long way for them. Wouldn't surprise me

if he was pretty close if we see 7-D tonight. Just to see if he can kind of feel it. If you've got to ease his way in. Yeah, if all of a sudden it's like I'm not ready, then you still get six. Yeah, if he's not ready, then you're still covered a little bit. And that would probably leave. Rangers got anyone that requires Reeves?

No. Reeves to me would be a healthy scratch after last night. He was fine last night. Fine. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah be a healthy scratch after last night. He was fine last night. Fine. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Undependable showing.

The puck didn't go in. He had one slapper shot. It would go a long way to get Lilligren back in the lineup. One thing that was different last night, and for a couple games in a row now here, a few Matthews really coming on here. He had 11 shot attempts i think last night goal two crossbars now did you tell me that uh did sheldon make a comment about him working harder

we have a comment okay let's i want to hear it yep clip six uh i think austin has changed the dynamic for austin i i think he's i think he's just playing with way more authority, shooting the puck way more. I think that's really it. I mean, William, no matter where he plays, is going to do his thing. But I really think Austin has just really decided that he's just going to be more assertive in his play offensively. And I think that that's really what we've seen. I thought they were, even in the first period last night, I thought they were a real bright spot for us that kind of got us going.

But yeah, I think just the way that Austin's on his toes more, he's attacking the net, he's shooting the puck, he's working to get it back. That's really where I think Austin comes to life. See, he could have saved us 30 seconds by just saying he's working harder. Yeah, he says Austin changed the dynamic for Austin, and Austin decided, he said, or decided, which is like it's within his control.

Without a doubt, a greater sense of urgency in his game. Yeah, I always maintain that he is his best when you see him trundling up through the neutral zone where he's flying, you know, using his speed, and it seems like he's skating again, which is... Going north hard. Yeah. Tough guy to control when he does. He's so good on the puck, on loose pucks, such a strong stick.

So then where are we at on Marner? Because it feels like it's going the opposite way. Yeah, I did want to ask you guys about that. So someone, I think it was Kevin Papetti, had like a tweet with Marner's last 10 games of expected goals, and he's been below 50% in nine of the 10, and the one he was like 50%. You know, it's not that he's been...

He's had some... A couple of good games, right? He had a Hattrick game. Some good clear-cut chances. Yeah. After the two in Hattrick, after the two breakaways last night i didn't but not much in between right he's the guy that you on this show for years been calling the engine

yeah and you know does not seem like and correctly so uh for a lot of time like when he's on he can really drive it for sure but yeah so right now he's at about a point per game. Is there less chemistry between 91 and 16? Could be, but it was kind of the same when he was with 34 before. So at some point you want to see him make people better if he's the engine. You want to see him drive that play for them. And so to me he's just been a guy that's been below the standard so far of what you would have for him. If he's an 85-point guy this year,

the Leafs aren't going to call that a successful season for him. If he's an 85-point guy this year, the Leafs aren't going to call that a successful season for him. Did you pick up anything off of Keith talking about defensive pairs that might suggest that we're going to have a different look tonight? I did. Okay, let's go to clip five. The way the first period went, we were having a real hard time getting the puck moving out of our zone, so just trying to mix things up a little bit there.

It'll be more of the same here tonight. We're still at this point unsure what our lineup will look like, quite honestly, both on forward and defense. We've got some guys a little banged up, some new guys sick, so we've got some things to manage here today that we'll sort through the rest of the afternoon. Yeah, that's the controlled exits for the leafs in the thirst period first period they were uh 75 so like a quarter of the time they tried to break the puck out they couldn't get out of their own end um just not smooth not connected so that and maybe some guys did he give us the impression that guys are under the

weather yeah and the david alter reported that today too that there's guys sick up front and on d and that's a lot of martin jones in that is this a setup for a tough night feels as much of a scheduled l they've had back to back sick playersback, sick players, Martin Jones going against the Rangers. Christmas. Yeah, you got all these. Christmas shopping. The Naimo bars. Did they have a big dinner last night?

Is that why they're all feeling under the weather? A little celebration. The old Labatt blue floofs sweeping through the room. What's going on? Johnny's back home. Not really home. No, definitely not home. Do we want to go to Sheldon on Martin Jones?

Yeah, let's hear it. I'm sure he's excited for it. You know, but I just think he's a veteran goalie that, you know, isn't going to get too phased or too excited or anything like that. He's just going to be ready to go out and play and take advantage of his opportunity i'm sure there is a little bit of comfort there for sheldon this guy i think he's a i forget what number he is for starts but he's like really high in all-time starts he's a top 100 guy and starts oh really oh yeah once upon a time this guy was a five and a

half million dollar goalie yeah and not that long ago not that long ago and you know so yeah you definitely would have some comfort it was nice he came in the other night uh and made nine to ten saves to get his win so yeah it's not like they're starting shalgren it's his 431st career start tonight for martin jones that is 95 all time for starts yeah it's pretty impressive so it's like yeah you're he's maybe not the best guy but you know you're not gonna have a nervous guy going into madison square garden yeah uh 18 save shut out for samsonov what did you think about his follow-up game last night uh still the road to recovery in terms of uh getting his play back to where it was a year ago? Yeah. You just answered the question. Right.

You know, there's no goal where I'm like, he has to have that. But it's like, there's a few where you get probably, you know, a really good goal, he probably makes the save. I think he made, in the 18 saver on Saturday, I think he made two or three more impressive saves in that game that he did last night. Yeah. Like, you know, I'm trying to think of the goals.

The third one from distance. Yeah. The first one goes, like, seems to go through his glove. The second one that's, like, a backhander on the. The first one was Nelson's? Yeah. Yes. Which he's falling backwards.

Like, it's probably, like, a 30 or 40-foot shot that seldom gets uncontested you know what i mean usually there's like four or five legs that that thing's gonna bounce off before it gets to to samson i thought it was gonna be tipped but it wasn't and it was just such a clean shot i didn't like that one at all no there's i think it was engvall in front so he doesn't know that he doesn't need to be worried about engvall going in front of him. You're hilarious. Yesterday, saying about how his team could use Engvall.

One minute of seeing him out there, I'm like, haven't missed him for a second. Stay on Long Island, baby. For a long time on Long Island. And then for the second and the third game, he disappeared. I wonder if Butch, you know, is he's a draw for this show. Probably not.

Good chance, no. Yeah, so not his finest performance. So they get the Rangers. Rangers, a kind of curious schedule for them of late. Where did I see? So they beat the Kings the other night other night four to one and a really yeah you know prior to that they had some bad losses to washington yeah lost four nothing to washington lost to ottawa maybe a six to two or something five one six two or either way

um and then they snuck by san jose before that like they hadn't been clicking at their best but obviously a good showing last time out so let's listen listen to Sheldon Keefe tell us about his thoughts on the Rangers. They got things going really well here this season, and lots to be aware of. They're a five-on-five game, but really even just their special teams, special teams and goaltending clearly have been uh real difference makers for them so that's an area we've got to be conscious of but uh you know again we'll just focus on our group but certainly there's things to be aware of on the other side that's a scary power play yeah rangers

power play is clicking the 30 second best in the nhl and their penalty kill is also in the top 10 um so they're decent there too. Just think of that personnel there. The Fox on the power play, Kreider in front of the net, Panarin firing passes around. That's the Benajed one-timer. They're a lot to deal with. I am concerned for the Leafs tonight. Yeah, this feels like one no one's picking the Leafs in here tonight,

are they, Kipper? Yeah, I'm with you. Yeah. We got to hit the break before we get to Arthur. Yes. But I just want to make sure I get this in here. It's Borny's birthday today. And he was going to try to sneak it by everybody.

His wife DM'd me last night on Instagram and said, make sure he doesn't go the whole day without sneaking it around. And look it. Thanks, guys. So happy birthday, buddy. Happy 50th to you. Congratulations. Happy birthday.

No, nothing. Yeah, we got it. By the way, on that note, a thank you to Marianne for the Christmas baking for Kip and I. That's right. Mama McKee puts a mean in an aisle bar. Mama McKee. Mama Alton.

Say Mama Alton. Mama Alton. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, say it. You too, Kipper. Wonderful. Mama Alton.

Alton. Alton. There you go. Mama Alton. There you go. All right. Thank you, Mama Alton. Okay, we're going to take a quick break.

When we return, Arthur Staple, New York columnist, covering the Rangers in the aisles for the Athletic. We're going to ask him if he envisions any day between now and the end of time that John Tavares will be welcome back to the island. Let it go. Let it go. That and more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Teeing up the biggest games of the night, it's the Fan Pre Game with Ailish Forfar and Justin Cuthbert. Weekdays at 6 p.m. on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590, The Fan,

and wherever you get your podcasts. All right, welcome back to the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. As promised, Arthur Staples. Arthur Staples from the Athletic, covering the Rangers and the Islands. And, of course, John Tavares' 1,000th point. Our John Tavares correspondent, live on the scene. You were booing too, weren't you, Arthur? Be honest. I covered John for a long time.

So, no, I was not booing. I was just observing. And there were plenty of blue and white jerseys in the stands. There was some applause. And UBS Arena, and, you know, Lou Lamarillo is a classy guy, putting up the congratulations at the end of regulation. There were a few sticks clapped on the boards on the Islanders bench. Some of his friends still there.

But, yeah, the fans, you know, they feel the way they feel. It's a passionate bunch. Justin knows. You know Kipper. It's always been that way, and it will always be that way, they feel the way they feel. It's a passionate bunch. Justin knows. You know Kipper. It's always been that way, and it will always be that way, especially when it comes to 91. All right, well, it's great to hear your voice. It's been a while.

I want to get into your piece, because we talked about it earlier in the show. Can I just read it? Please do. It's in The Athletic today. It's on John Tavares, what everyone doesn't get about Islanders fans booing John Tavares. Yeah, and so what don't people get about here?

Because here in Toronto, Kip even said he thinks the booing has gotten excessive. So what are your thoughts? I mean, it's once a year, really. So I don't know if you could call it excessive. For six straight years, Arthur. Yeah. You know, I think, and Kipper, you can relate. I think this is their pot band.

I think the Islanders have kind of found their thing that has lost a lot of meaning over the years, the way that the chant about Dennis Potvin at the Garden did. You know, there were lots of fans who would whistle along and say that and have no idea what the origin of it was. I don't think we're that far out from the Tavares free agency decision, so I think plenty of fans still know and still feel a little sore about the way it went down. But I think in general, it's just something that gets the fans' blood going.

You've got to have a little hate in your heart if you're a crazy fan of any team. And I think it's just an energy in this building at UBS. It was an energy at the Coliseum first. It's an energy there. It's kind of a – it's almost like a throwback to when maybe one of the last times that the Islanders felt that disrespect. They used to feel for a long, long time that, you know, through bad ownership and poor decisions

and con men owning the team, all the ridiculousness of three decades. And that was kind of the last straw of John having nine great years here and helping bring the team out of the dark ages and then ultimately deciding to go to Toronto, the center of the hockey universe as far as kind of the punditry and all the media goes. And everyone really wanted to say to the Island like he belongs in toronto you got to just suck it up and take it i don't think that's the way you you you want to be as a fan you have to have some passion and i think even with some of the success they've had since he's been gone

it's just something that they do to get themselves going when he's in the building and i'm sure he doesn't love it and i'm sure lots of other people don't love it, but that probably makes him keep on doing it. So you can't tell a New Yorker what to do, that's for sure. We're talking to Arthur Staple, covering the New York Rangers and the Islanders for the Athletic. I just want to go back to your reference of the Potvin sucks chant. And my first thought, Arthur, when. And you know, the, my first thought Arthur,

when I hear you say that is, well, pot van never played for the New York Rangers. This is a situation where Islander fans had watched Tavares with, you know, he bled for the team. He, the sweat,

the tears for nine season. This is like eating one of your own here. How come, how come Islander fans are so easy to forget about those nine years? You know, I think it's just kind of the way that last season went down where, you know, ownership was relatively new. Scott Malkin, John Ledecky, they went all out to try to keep Tavares.

They kept Garth Snow as GM for a season, maybe longer than they would have. They hired Doug Waite, who was really close with Vaughn, after he kind of took over the year before and almost led them to a playoff spot after they'd been in last place. They did a lot to try to appease him, not that John asked for any of it and not that he wanted that kind of spotlight. But, you know, and John said all along, my focus is here throughout the year. I think some fans feel like he could have just kind of, you know, blown the whistle on it and said, we're not going to make the playoffs.

I'm having second thoughts. You guys can do whatever you need to do at the trade deadline, and that's not on him either. That's on ownership, and that's, you know, they instructed Garth Snow not to trade him. They didn't want to try to damage that relationship going into the summer. And he agonized over that decision. And I think maybe he felt the difficulty of the decision might have made it more of an understanding situation for Islander fans.

But, you know, when you make those free agency decisions, especially if you've been with a team for a long time, somebody wins and somebody loses, and the losers aren't going to feel so good about it. So, you know, I think maybe that's the part that took him a little by surprise and the fact that it's, you know, the vitriol from 2019, I guess, you know, the plastic snakes and the booing pretty much from start to finish that game, which was a big Islanders win in that season that they, that they were good without him for the first time.

You know, I think that that exercise some demons, but, but I think it's, you know, I do kind of wonder if John would just come out and say, Hey, you know,

I love it. I love their passion. I love being here for almost 10 years and they're free to do what they want. If that would just kind of take the air out of the situation. But I don't know if that's kind of his style or how he feels about it or if it's too far gone now, but, but I have to figure at some point, it's going to end, whether he ends up, you know, going someplace else to finish his career besides Toronto,

or if they just run out of gas at some point. But, but for now, there's seemingly no stopping it six years later which is pretty amazing i think it all also comes back to the debate of like a lot of people are sure do you think he knew he was leaving or not that's at the core of it like if i say to people like you know he genuinely had a tough decision to make and didn't know what he was gonna do and then he made a choice and people say he knew and so it's a lot of people kind of guessing what he knew when about where he wanted to be um you know kip and i've had that debate off the air too so i don't think anyone can really answer that question i do want to ask you mentioned uh lou lamorello had him put the uh can i ask one more on john please please do you want to no no if you want to know one more on john because i threw this out there uh earlier to j JB and we didn't really get into it, but

do you see, do you see a future long after this? Listen, I'm a member of three alumni, you know, Rangers, Washington and Toronto. I love going to each city. People are amazing. Is there going to be one day when John Tavares can come back in the Islanders, one of the things that they've done exceptionally well under this ownership is welcome back anybody who played even one game for this organization. So you have to know there's going to be an olive branch extended. I hope it would be soon after he decides to retire. I hope it would be received.

And I think the outpouring of emotion then will be just my guess from knowing Islander fans like I do. It'll be so much the other way. I think the dam will burst then. It's not going to happen now. And especially, you know, while these two teams that have had a long, long, long Stanley Cup drought and still kind of battling it out to see if they can have a decent playoff run and win some playoff rounds as the Islanders did a couple years ago. But, yeah, I have to think that once it's over with and everybody, you know,

I think anybody who knows John knows that he was very sincere when he said his focus that last season with year 17-18, his focus was only on playing for the Islanders, and he saved the decisions for the summer, and it was extremely difficult to leave. So I think all those good feelings come back at some point and I think it'll be a really good moment for him to realize that the fans, the vast majority of them,

do still love him and for the fans to recall the good stuff and how when he got here, how moribund this franchise was and how it was at the end when he scored the OT winner to beat the Panthers, get their first playoff series win in 23 years, and really do it almost single-handedly. So, yeah, I think that day's coming. I hope it's coming, and we'll see what happens. Yeah, if we searched every article you wrote for the last decade

and tried to find Tavares complaining about playing in Nassau Coliseum and, you know, in Brooklyn and everywhere else. I don't think we'd find too much. So I think he was a pretty good soldier there. Is Lou Lamorello just going to, like, live forever and be there forever and be the guy? Does he have, like, a wizard spell? What is his status?

Is there any way he's ever not the GM of the Islanders? You know, I mean, he looks great. He's 30 years older than me. I would love to look that good when I'm his age. But, yeah, you know, I have to think, and we'll never really know, right? You know, you find out, everybody finds out at the same time what's going on with Lou, especially with him personally in terms of running the franchise. You know, if there's a scenario where he steps back from the GM job and hands it over to

his son, who's an assistant GM, and he has the president title, and certainly that would still mean to me that he'd be heavily involved in decision making and rule making and all those other things. I could envision that. You know, I think it's interesting that, you know, that Scott Malkin, who's the principal owner, you know, he's been the owner now for eight years, but they don't really have a ton of lead experience. You know, they brought Lou in to replace Garth Snow,

a very small front office that they had under Charles Wong's ownership. And they brought Lou in, and Lou has his, you know, it's his front office that they had under Charles Wong's ownership. And they brought Lou in, and Lou has his front office. So I'd be curious to see if things don't go well for this season and ownership decides they want to make a full change, how that process would go because you get rid of Lou and you've really got to start from scratch. So it would be a big undertaking. I think this season will be pretty determinative

if they continue to succeed despite blowing leads. They seem like they have a pretty good team. If they can make the playoffs and make a little bit of a run, maybe Lou gets to decide how he goes out. If things start to fall apart and they blow too many leads, maybe the ownership decides

how it's going to play out. Arthur, one quick one regarding the New York Rangers. Do the Leafs see the one that beat L.A. 4-1 or what we saw against Ottawa and also the loss to Washington? Yeah, I don't think the Rangers can afford to play that way against the Leafs. You start getting into a track meet against the Senators team, which is obviously young and fast and doesn't love to play a lot of defense and you're going to get victimized.

And this Leafs team is probably even better than that offensively. And they're certainly that good defensively. So I think the Rangers have to stay disciplined, and I think they could have a lot of success against Toronto. I was watching them last night for kind of the bulk of that game against the Islanders where they were really hemmed in, and the Islanders are not an you know, an exceptional forechecking team. The Rangers have really been kind of, you know,

buying into what Peter Laviolette's been selling these first 26 games where they have had some structure, even through some pretty critical injuries. Adam Fox was out for a month. They still have no Filipino. They still have no Capo Caco. It's not a particularly young group of forwards, but when they play with structure and they've got kind of the line filipino they still know capo caco it's not a particularly young group of forwards but uh

but when they play with structure and they've got kind of the line that's been driving the offense all year in panera and trocek and lafreniere uh when that line gets going it they can be very dangerous so you know i think first you know 10-15 minutes we'll see what kind of game it is and the rangers have been able to adapt to a lot of different ways games have gone and won a lot of different ways and i think they want to keep it to a pretty low event game like they had with la and if they can do that and toronto doesn't seem to have a lot of patience so far this year especially without the puck so uh we'll see which game the rangers want to play if they want to if they want to track me i don't know if it's going to go so well for them arthur

great stuff man really appreciate your time and by, if you're chasing a subway or something's going on, an A for effort for coming on our show today, man. Thanks. Thanks, boys. Anytime. Thanks, Arthur. Arthur Stable, The Athletic. Do you bother to ask them at any point,

where are you when we talk to you? It wasn't bad. I'm not sure if he was actually at the subway or not. I mean, I had a bunch of different ideas. At first, I thought he was in an arcade. I was like, is he at Penn Station? And then I'm like, well, yeah, he's going to cover Leafs Rangers tonight. You want to get a guy on that's covering the game?

You might not actually get him to sit down at his desk at his computer. Like it's, you know, you're not getting 15. I'm not complaining. You are. You are. I'm not complaining. I just, we've been doing this together a long time now, Kepfer. Yes.

I know there's nothing that drives you more insane than a bad phone. They like, and it's, their Zoom has really improved it this year. So there's been less drops and there's been less big, but. Sammy. At the top of your power list of things that piss you off, bad phone, very high. There are times when we've talked to people where two cans and a string tied together

would have been better reception than what you've given us. Hey, let's take a moment to jinx the hell out of this. I don't think we've had a dropped call this season. We were having three. Was it three a show show was the record was no uh yeah it's funny one interview sammy was our sheldon keith too many men on the ice leader last year and kevin kevin kurz last year yeah who actually covers the islanders as well yes he had three in one interview that was the the hat trick of dropping he kept would just look up at me and I'm like, oh, geez. Like you dropped him personally? Like you were holding the call in your hand?

But, you know, Staple's a good guy and he was on the go. That was good. It was good. Did you buy into his when John retires, everything will be okay? Do you really believe that? I think it's good. Listen, I spent three years in New York, man. They got some long memories.

They put that sucks for 40 years. They need something else. They need some other person to hate. They need a thing. They pass that stuff on. Generational crushes. What'd you inherit? 30 grand and a hatred for the league.

Podvan sucks is generational yeah he's not welcome in that building and people don't even know to his point they don't even know what they're why they're saying no idea anymore actually in reading the article it was i was refreshed it was on like a bad hit that broke one of the rangers ankles 40 years ago and they're still doing it so yeah it's a tough community to move on don't think it's ever gonna happen boys yeah you know just go go to long island john get a deli sandwich and i got nice cold cuts move on he's got uh the 991 retirement jersey thing you mentioned that what do you think i don't know no cup no cup no one playoff round i'm. They won four Stanleys in a row.

Like, they're high. They got standards. Let me just say. Yeah, the bar's high. My dad's number is not in the rafters there. Yes. I thought it was. No.

No, Thomas Hickey yesterday was. He led them in scoring the year they won a cup over the Oilers in the playoffs. You know, like he. Horvat wears his number. Yeah. Hickey wore it. Yeah. Trevor Gillies wore it. Yeah. You know, like he... Horvat wears his number. Yeah, Hickey wore it. Yeah, that's your point.

Trevor Gillies wore it. Yeah. You know, so to put 91 up there... I'm listening. I'm listening. I might have a hard time with that, to be honest. All right. I think that's completely fair.

Okay, that's fair. How many points did he have as an Islander? Probably 700. Tavares? Tavares, sorry. Tavares was 669. Yeah, my dad was like 580 or 5 or 5'90", or something. Different roles. I understand. They're very different players. He was a

number one overall pick and all that, but he also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the organization was in, they were in tough. They stunk. He played with no one. When he played. Yeah. When he first got drafted. Tavares was a great Islander. It's just a big game to say. Okay, we are told we are out of time, but that doesn't mean we're not back for

another hour on the national edition of Real Kipper and Born. Our thanks to Arthur Staple for dropping by, Leafs, and the Rangers tonight. Stick around. After the break, we're back. Real Kipper and Born.