Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Tavares Hat-Trick + Hildeby Holds Up

Episode Date: December 16, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Daniele Franceschi look back on the Leafs’ back-to-back games this weekend, including a 4-2 loss to the Red Wings on Saturday night, and a 5-3 win over the Sabres on Sunday. They reflect on Dennis Hildeby’s third start of the season, and his attempt at the empty net late in the game against Buffalo. Then, they get into John Tavares’ hat-trick, and Max Domi scoring his first goal of the season. Later, Gord Stellick (32:11) joins the show to discuss the Leafs’ depth scoring, finding a permanent partner for Morgan Rielly, and what might still be bothering Auston Matthews. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

all right let's start the week off at kiprios justin bourne in for our traveling sammy disco dan franceschi yelly what's up brother i am doing good what's great to be here all right you know all know, all's well. All's well. I'm grateful to be in this seat filling in for Sammy while he's enjoying Detroit, Michigan. Is it true that you paid completely Sammy's weekend from Oshawa Junior A Hockey Friday?

Just to get him out of here. The Leafs game, Detroit, and then the Bills game Sunday so you can get this seat on Monday. Is that true? No. Just to get him out of the game, Detroit, and then the bills game Sunday. So you can get this seat on Monday. Is that true? No. Let me tell you why that's false Kipper. Because if it was me and I had disposable income of that nature, I'd be the one going to the lions bills game as a lot,

as a bills fan to go sit there and watch Josh Allen carve up the lines. That would have been my choice. But you are a bills guy. But if you keep doing the prep work for a show this good, you may be getting Sam's money anyway soon. What a lineup. Holy smokes. Wow.

Sam hates it. I love it. I know he does. I know he irks him. I know. Sammy, if you're on your way on the 401, keep going. Keep going. Go. Carry on to wherever you're headed. Go all the way to Cornwall,

buddy. We're good. We're good here. We can. We miss you, pal. The rest is in place, including Derek Brandale and Frank the Tank. He's in as well. We're off and running here on this Monday as we take it towards a

Christmas break. I don't know if you guys were watching the games closely enough to say, okay, it's not the best hockey in the world that we're seeing out of the Leafs. No. For Friday and Sunday. Is it? Saturday. Back to back. Back to back and just maybe all these games back to backs are kind of catching up with them.

I know we're going to get into the specifics of what we saw in Detroit and then back home against the Buffalo Sabres on a rare five o'clock start. But I'm watching this hockey and it's not compelling hockey and it might have a lot to do with all these crammed games yeah i've said this before uh in the past week or two but like the lull in the leafs play seems to be coinciding with bad opponents so you're getting a combination of still getting points in games where they don't play great but also some of the games are pretty rough you know sammy was at that detroit game at least the buffalo game there was goals and a comeback and it felt you know tavaris hatrick the detroit game that was a tough slog i'll be honest i would also say it's a product and you alluded to a kipper but four back-to-backs in

the span of 22 days all engulfed around a christmas holiday break there's the trade freeze mixed in there like that's that's tough that's especially after they had a stretch of two weeks where they only played four games yeah it's it's i mean to be expected i would imagine well i've done enough of these christmas breaks where it's like one eye on the puck the other one on flights home yeah gifts and who's coming in who's leaving when do they come in what's going on it's like all right honey i gotta go the games i gotta beat the game i gotta go it does happen it does happen but we won't completely take them off the hook either because there's some things that you liked and some things that you didn't yeah this

past weekend obviously uh first we uh weekend without anthony stolarz of the year uh he'll be getting a start in buffalo we can get to the buffalo game specifically any greater takeaways for you from the two games um that stood out i know it felt like the offense was once again kind of not there against detroit but they did end up putting up four and an empty net of the buffalo game so yeah i think uh i think you got to take that game against Buffalo with a grain of salt, too, because if they're not the worst team in the league, they are really close. Ten straight games without a win. And I know Detroit has battled consistency.

But that's just a better team than Buffalo, is it not? It's a better team than Buffalo. It's still a bad team. The ceiling for the Red Wings is like what they are basically like what where are they gonna get better I don't know I mean the Leafs lost to a goalie Billy Huso I don't want a game in a year yeah yeah it's a calendar year it last December he picks up a win on Saturday and then yesterday it's Devin Levi in the net who had just been recalled so again I again, I mean, yeah, the offense was nice yesterday, but at the same time, looking between the pipes

and realizing A, who's in goal, and the team they're playing against, you know, at times leaves a little bit to be desired. That's for sure. Yeah, expected a little more, and then even against Anaheim, not a great defensive team. They haven't, I don't know. There are pieces of this that feel like it's coming together.

McMahon coming back changes their look for me. They get that depth going, and have had a depth line with domi uh and robertson too and against buffalo so anyway in about 30 minutes we're going to welcome in gordon stellick who's uh been a regular contributor here uh does a terrific job so we'll look forward to that and jason york at the top of the hour as well we'll talk a little ot Senators. They're hot. Rangers are not. Rangers are such a disaster. Is that the team that takes a wild card spot away from them? I don't know if the Rangers are ever going to win again.

They're such a mess, Kip. Like, Arthur Staple, their beat writer, is tweeting about, like, I don't know who's gone next, but someone's got to go. Well, wherever you are watching and listening, Sportsnet 590, The Fan, Sportsnet 360, and Sportsnet Plus from 4 to 6, we're glad you're aboard as we get into the Leafs and Buffalo last night.

Let's go to our first Kippers Clipper of the week, Craig Berube, on his overview of the Leaf performance. You know, we had good intentions in the first period. Take a penalty. I mean, first shift when we get behind. But, you know, I thought after the first seven minutes, I thought we started to take over, and I thought we started to really get going.

Guys battled hard. I mean, we got all lines. I thought everybody was solid tonight, worked hard, competed hard, did a lot of good things, stayed with it. You know, and it was a great third period. When you got a lead by one goal and you go out there and just check and don't give them much. And we had opportunities, a couple power play or two power plays.

And, you know, so it was really really good i thought our leader stepped up and really did a good job tonight when that first jack was a quinn shot the first one in followed by short shooting it short side the quinn one stunk like that stunk just a clean wrist shot from the and we are not used to seeing just stunk goals genuinely Genuinely jarring. Genuinely like, did it get tipped or like what? Did it, he just shot it in? Like the process, wait, he just shot it in. That was shocking. So three minutes into the game, were you having a moment?

Were you catastrophizing the season like I was at that point? I was like, this is disastrous. The only thing that's kind of played into thinking that this wasn't going to be one of those nights is that they haven't had one of those nights. What's that where they just get blown out? Yeah, or it's like everything that can go wrong will go wrong. They do for one, but I just don't know the way they play

and they clog up and they don't give much every third period. It's hard for teams to get to the net. I thought it'll eventually turn. So I think I was okay with that. But, yeah, it's noticeable when those goals go in that you go, I haven't seen those all year. No. And so my thought process was just like okay if hildeby is casca

suo and we can't trust putting him in and he can't go in what do you do then you know can you lean on wall heavy and what if the workload gets to him and he's hurt and all of a sudden at the end of the day hildeby's giving up three goals on like 30 shots and was pretty solid ended up being all right but that was a pretty rocky start there it makes you appreciate good goal 10 sure that's what it does it makes you appreciate the fact that in every anthony stolar's start you haven't seen one like really bad egregious goal no and that's been that was a staple for the leafs it was always like guaranteed one or two every so often that looked really really bad and then it puts you behind the eight ball. But that was a reminder of what you lost with Stolarz not being available. You know, Joseph Wall being in the position he's in

and now playing all these back-to-backs. You need somebody else. Hildeby isn't the guy right now. Heck, who knows what's going on with Matt Murray and if he's going to be healthy at some point over the next month because he just got hurt a week ago. But that's where you're at. You're searching for

stability right now but also the goalie took a shot at the empty net that was fun yeah that was great um were they just down a goal at that point it was just four three it was just four three i mean it looked like a pretty good spot what was your reaction to that well first of all, a guy like that would have spent his whole life thinking about that. When you, I don't know what year exactly, Ron Hextall did it for the first time, shooting a puck into the net. But since then, I imagine that every goalie that first put on pads that is lucky enough to get to the NHL level would somehow, someway, constantly be thinking about that

or quietly working on that from the day he started. It's the Michigan. It's the Michigan. Everyone wants to hit it if they can. It's well over 20 years that a goalie has now visualized himself doing that and to your point it the puck came to hill to be it was the perfect storm he had time to turn set get his shoulders down ice and if you shoot it good like he did that it's just a clear and that's fine but if you fan on it think like, if you put on pads at seven to, like, last night,

how many times he would have done that in practice. Five-point shot, yeah. Right? Yeah, thousands. Thousands, thousands. So I think it's a natural now feel for goalies to try that. There wouldn't be nerves involved. It would just be strictly

repetition repetition but his career is in his hand at that point if he shoots for an empty net he's this is his third nhl game and he whiffs on it and trickles in front and alex tuck shoots it in and like you know he's already given up a couple of you know you may not see him again i don't know or it gets knocked down at the blue line. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I get your point. There's some risk involved. I didn't see a ton of pressure around him.

And it is game 30 in December. Anyway, let's get Craig Berube. We are in the forgiving world, too, by the way. We could have had a good chuckle on it and moved on. Yeah, that's probably true. Let's clip eight. We'll hear Berube's thoughts. You're really trying to score. and they had to feel the way to us.

I thought it was a good play. Guys were taking the outlets out on him, coming down the wall. Smart play. Fired it down the ice. I mean, I'm okay with that. What did you think of his game? Was he a rebounder? Well, he settled in after the first two, I thought.

I thought he made a couple key saves in the third period, which were important. I thought he handled the puck well um you know so i mean would he want that power play goal back probably but you know he he was pretty good for us tonight you know i kind of feel like beating the sabers 4-3 call it 4-3 before the empty netter is a little bit like canada beating latvia 2-1 in the olympics where it's like they won but it's not supposed to look like that but still they did get the win so can't complain too much uh john devarez hatrick yeah you know thought he played well and you know he could have had more than that i thought his energy was terrific yeah he's at his best when

he beats someone one-on-one you're like okay, okay, he's got his legs tonight. He's engaged. He was pretty good. Yeah. I think the year that he's having is, in all honesty, a statement year. Come on. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that guys that are in their last year of their deal find different ways to be motivated. On top of that that he had his captaincy taken away from him yeah those are those are heavy things those are big big motivators for

him to come back and say hey screw you yeah okay i'm not going anywhere i got 15 by christmas he's got another 50 games to get another 15 and hit the 30 goal mark pretty good year like it's he's showing a lot of juice right now so keep going do you think i don't know where it's going to end up for him and what it's going to look like particularly on this team but right now the production's there and that's that's his bread and butter at the end of the day he's got to get his points. He's got to produce. They need him to score, for sure. And then what's interesting is they flipped Nylander up on the top line. So we saw Nylander, Matthews, Varner for an extended period,

which we almost never see. But all of a sudden, that second line of Tavares, Pacioretty, Nyes is heavy. Yeah. I know it's not fast. No, it's not fast. And if you can play in front of the net if you can crash if you can work the walls it's in your wheelhouse if you start going north south a little bit it might get a little tricky you saw what happened on uh on buffalo's third goal where they're got to skate a thousand miles in the neutral zone and try to catch somebody.

That's what you kind of want to avoid with those guys. Yeah. It's interesting to know how sustainable it is. You know, come playoffs, you're looking for options that are sustainable. If you have that line and can load up that top one, they all like to shoot.

They all like to get to the blue paint. Are they redundant on the same line, or are they just a handful? I think against certain opponents it might work. I don't think it works against the Devils or something. So what you're saying is go find your Latvia, and you can score, and you can look good, but we're not sure it'll work against top teams. Perfect. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

What I like about that trio together, and there are three worker bees on the same line like they're all gonna go grind they're gonna do exactly what the coach wants them to do stylistically i mean hand up admittedly if if we said coming into the season john taveras might be perhaps the best four to acclimate to the craig brube system i would i don't know if i envision that but truthfully he is he's literally been that guy i had that same thought driving in today i was like man it works with berubian it's unbelievable all the work he does but in front of the net yes go ahead go ahead yeah no all the

work in the dirty areas in front of the net just getting your your your butt down in front of the goaltender uh playing behind the goal below the the goal line. Like, he's just, he's found that niche, and it works really well under Craig Berube. It does, until you go through those small pockets where there's no, where the stars are a little cooled off, and there's no secondary scoring, and there we go. Berube's a little too simple, this system. Maybe, you know, what's going on?

He's got to free these guys up a little bit, and, you know know all of a sudden it's not working for yeah there's a fine line there stretches of no offense at five on five for devar and we've seen it yeah we've seen it why don't we uh he's he's either really hot it seems or he's a bunches guy he definitely scores in bunches uh we do have barubi on his hat trick and season clip six. I don't know what to tell you. I mean, this guy's got a heavy stick, smart, competitive.

I mean, and he works at his game constantly, even at this age, and he's still doing a great job. You know, it's great to see him. You know, he's been excellent for us all year. We actually have three Tavares clips as well there. Not sure if any of those... Why don't we listen to Ruby talking about flipping Nyes and Nylander first? We'll do clip two here and then we'll hear from John. I thought in my head that if I could get Tavares with Nyes

and Patch ready out there at times against the Thompson line you know it's a big line heavy line so that was my thought a little bit and not so much use Matthews against the rest of the game we were down so I wanted to kind of loosen those guys up a little bit and give them some different looks um that was kind of like my thought process on it, and it worked out. That was a Sheldon Keefe-esque thoughtful response on his thought process. I know. Yeah. Interesting. The key was that he was down when he did it, right?

It's like I got to – Chasing it here. Come on. I've got $50 million and four guys, and I'm down to this team right now? So he just – I think he muscled right up with with matthews neilander and marner you suddenly you get your good players and you go go do the thing yes go do the yeah and go do the scoring thing those guys together this year have been and this is going to shock you elite elite elite like they've controlled 66 of the expected goals on

the ice together shots are 49 19 when they're on the ice they're amazing the expected goals on the ice together. Shots are 49-19 when they're on the ice. They're amazing when they're on the ice together. Okay, the other aspect is Max Domi. Shut some people up, I think, last night a little bit. He had a really good night. He did have a good night. I do think that having Bobby McMahon back totally changes their ability to get depth scoring.

The third line is so much better. Causes the turnover on a greenway pass. But Robertson, last year, do you remember how often he would score post-scratch? J.D. Bunkus was calling him Scratch and Score, was his nickname. He was scratched four games before this goal. So they get him back in.

That's pretty good. That's creative, J.D. Well done. He should get his own show if he's doing stuff like that. So yeah, we do have a clip from Berube talking on Domi and Robertson. They played excellent. I thought that they were way more engaged with their physical play and hounding and puck battles and things like that.

And they did a real good job. That line was excellent tonight for us, and we needed them to be. And we'll take that right into clip five on Domi breaking through, please. It feels good, trust me. I mean, he's not happy that he hasn't produced or scored. And we need him to. But we need him to play that style of game that he played tonight. You know, that's the difference for me.

Way more engaged. Hey, third line, you want to win Stanley Cups? They're the game breaker. They're the game changers. Is there anything for you where he seems to have these nights when he's at center, like just being able to skate a little bit more? He's not going to get to play with as good players if he's there, but he does seem to get his feet moving better.

Anything to that for you or no? Do I prefer him in the middle? I don't know if it really matters to him. I think he's very versatile. I do. I think he can play both sides. I think it just depends on who he's with and how it's kind of bouncing for him.

You saw that play right at the blue paint where the puck just had a horrible bounce on him where it's an easy shovel in for another goal for him. But I think it's just pockets and windows for him. And I think he's that guy that you don't necessarily set anywhere up. You just kind of move him around a little bit when it's needed. Yeah. Yeah, I've told you before.

You want to see him back with Matthews at a certain point? You know, I have a tough time with Dmmy not because i don't like the player but because i struggle to see you know how is this going to work long term i would like to see him have an extended run with matthews and marner and see if this is something that they can create sustainable chemistry and something that they can actually use in playoffs that would be great he can think it like the elite players he He had 47 points last year. He's good offensively. He was good in the playoffs with those guys. Yeah, he was good playing up there.

A consistent third line for him would work if he can find a way to get 12, 14 minutes. If he can see a little bit of power play time yeah i think that's that's the wheelhouse for a successful push and spring he needs players too though right like he can't be out there with pontus and minton i know it's it's not working but that's where you go get your third center yeah so if you do that and play you know know, McMahon and Domi with, you know, Ryan O'Reilly, or I'm just saying names now, Brock Nelson, you know, like all of a sudden you love that line, but I don't want him to be.

It's coming though. I think it's coming. Do you think he needs to be a shoot first kind of guy? Does he need to think shooting? We can't have him say it's coming and then move on. They're going to go get a centerman. Like a really good one. Yeah yeah they will you're confident in that yeah i am like like as good as that sort of level yeah yeah oh yeah my goodness that would change things in a big way for this team yeah i

don't know when it's gonna happen it may have to wait it out you may have to wait it out in march but i think their preference is to get it done earlier and out wait. You know, there's the trade freeze right over the holidays, but it would be really nice. I say this a lot. I don't love teams waiting until March 5th to make these sort of moves. Like, it takes a while for guys to get acclimated and get comfortable with their lines and the Toronto lifestyle.

You've got to move into an apartment, and I would love to see them do that earlier. Yeah, here's to hoping it happens. All right. You know, as far as, I guess, to your point, measuring it against the Buffalo Sabres, and we'll get into more specifics on where they go from here, Buffalo maybe in our national hour.

But, like, I'm watching that blue line. Buffalo's blue line? Yeah, Buffalo's blue line. Okay. Like, maybe Owen Powers should be in Rochester right now. Oh, my goodness. What did you just say? Like, he needs to learn how to kind of play in his own zone at the pro level.

Is this his third year? Yeah, he's... Is it his third year? I thought he struggled. This is his... He had a game last week where he was exposed badly. I forget who they were playing. They were at home.

There's been a lot of games like that. Tons of them. But, I mean, man. No, you're right, Kipper. I couldn't agree more. There's a lot of games like that. Tons of them. But, I mean, man, you're right, Kipper. There's a lot of games like that. Getting lost in his own zone. I'm watching this team, and I'm like, this is what can happen

if you aren't 100% sure stroking these $50 and $60 million contracts. What is Matias Samuelson getting paid for? Is that his name? They gave him a monster deal like five years plus. I think it was longer than that. It was a massive extension. Oh my god. He is under contract until... It's a mad scramble

back there. Seven years. Thirty million. Seven years. And can I tell you... It's pure angle of defense. Devon Levi? seven years and can i tell you it's pure angle of defense uh uh devon uh levi devon devon levi like the guy's doing everything to keep it within one goal you think one saber could go pat him on the pad after a couple of big saves. Oh, you didn't see that, eh? Zero. Zero. Like, what is going on with that team?

I mean, they're without Rasmus Dahlien. Dahlien is back practicing. They're going to get their captain and best defenseman back. So anyone looks worse without their best D. But how about Bowen Byram? His name's in every trade rumor I've ever heard now. He struggled, too. Yes, he did. Yes.

Tavares made him look like john davarez was mcdavid i don't know if they were i think they were up to nothing and then you see that uh uh peterka yeah yeah on his ass and he takes the one-handed slashing penalty but if i'm behind the bench and my team's up to nothing and I see that selfish, stupid, I'm going to get back to you with this tap. And it's not like if you're going to put us down, break his ankle, right? Like make it worth it.

But to take that stupid penalty when we're up to nothing, that guy doesn't see one second after that penalty. You know, I think it's tough when a lot of the guys you draft don't have that like like tage thompson is kind of he's super talented um but you know they don't they just don't seem to have that professional competitive it's tough in this league i get it but it's been a culture. And this is what happens when you say we're going to bottom out. We're just going to strip it down and bottom out. And then you look around the league and you go Sam Reinhart, Brandon Montour, Ryan O'Reilly, Linus Allmark,

when Zvezda is somewhere else. Names like all these guys went somewhere else and had success. And you just moving on because you're trying to lose. And it just was a by room that tavaris undressed yeah but you're an nhl defenseman you cannot allow that to happen try it try looking at his chest isn't that what defending i don't know um who are the veterans on that team like like what veterans that's zucker's olduck, Zucker's old. Yeah, Zucker's old. Cousins is considered. Is he?

I don't know. I mean, he's getting paid $7 million. I certainly hope he's considered a leader. As I was going to say, 23 years old. Maybe that's where you look in the mirror a little bit. Get somebody in there. Get a few guys in there with experience, pedigree. They have one guy in in their 30s

and it's zucker and they got no one even at 29 so it's a bunch of young guys anyway uh power play over the weekend ah you know marner makes a great play to matthews for one did they have another one uh they had one last night didn't they i believe so oh yeah uh matthew's one-timer off to our shin yeah that's right yes yes yes yes um but yeah still still should be sharper yeah no they're still they're still trying to get that uh that part dialed in the um i'd be curious to know and i should look into this, the entry statistics. Cause you know, Marner and Nylander are so good at it.

Matthews hasn't had the same success. Yeah. I don't know why I'm Austin carrying the buck in the neutral zone on it. No. And they just, everyone is such a copycat league and everyone went to this, like the drop thing. No one has tried a new option in 10 years,

wherever it's been five years. Like I remember being with the marlies and like writing up some options on a pad of paper so it's like god this is all we ever do that was 2017 like i would love to see someone have a new idea on a break-in but doesn't happen in the nhl very often yeah i think sammy's used this term before too to describe it sometimes they just lack urgency that that bothers me and And I think it's heightened when you see actually the five forwards out there together. It's actually worse when it's just the five, you know,

main guys that the big guns out there. I find that that's when things get really casual and you're just sitting there hoping that they don't turn it over at the blue line because you know they ain't skating back. Like literally, you know, if it's a turnover there, it's either a two-on-one or a because you know they ain't skating back. Like literally, you know if it's a turnover there, it's either a two-on-one or a breakaway because they're not getting back. And that always keeps me on edge is the lack of urgency with the power play, especially when it's those guys on the ice.

For sure. Go ahead, Kip. I was just going to maybe just ask Disco about the clip on Tavares talking about Berube's system. You like that? Yeah. Before we get to Gord, let's hear something, Tavares talking about Berube's system. You like that? Before we get to Gord, let's hear something, Tavares. Yeah, I thought this one was interesting, actually, in pulling things because I talked about how it stood out to me

in terms of how he's fit in, but he sort of addressed bigger picture why it's been a little bit of a challenge for these guys to find a way to get it going. So here's John Tavares. Clip two, please, Derek. Yeah, we just got to keep going. I think we all want to continue to get it going so here's john tavarez clip two please derrick yeah we just just got to keep going i think um we all want to continue to get better uh as a team and individually

pucks maybe haven't been going in as much offensively but i think we're still growing and um finding our way with with how we're playing and the identity of the group and things uh coaching staff is preaching what we're working on so a lot of good signs uh today something we want to build on identity that's upbeat and excited as i've heard him yeah sounds like a guy who just scored three guy loves this and you got to be on top of your game to play barubi style i think which first and foremost is legs and energy yeah right if you're going to give up the puck you got to get it back meaning dump-ins and if there's just that small window where they're just a little off then it can kind of look like new jersey like what do you mean like the fast new jersey devils yeah well like go dump it in but

it's coming back out real quick yeah i see what you're saying that's that's the look that i we we got when they went to New Jersey. Oh, I thought you meant they look like the Devils. No, no. Against New Jersey. I'm just saying that Ruby's system means if you're going to dump it in and chase it, you better have those legs going. You better be chasing. Your angles better be perfect.

The second guy better not get caught with one pass right yeah my my complaint with this team right now is i think they often don't leave the next line set up for success because bad dump they'll go chase it at the end of a shift and all of a sudden they're coming back the other way waving guys on the ice i think better dumps better changes changes. And better changes in length of shifts, too. You can't get caught out there a minute and a half, minute 40, five, two minutes, which happened, I think, in Detroit, where they're out there a long time sometimes. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Anything else you want to touch on before we take a break and bring on electricity no sir all right take a quick break as we said gourd stelic former general manager of the toronto maple leafs and all around good guy next on real kipper and born hey it's alish for a fire and i'm justin cutford join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the Fan Pre-Game, 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. All right, as promised.

Stelictricity. Our Christmas version of Stelictricity. Gord Stelic, former NHL. Our Christmas version of Stelic-tricity. Gord Stelic, former NHL general manager, Toronto Maple Leafs. Now. Man, are you looking good these days. For those of you that cannot see Gord Stelic on the Zoom,

he looks like he's in fighting shape. Is it true that you've got a fight scheduled versus Jeff O'Neill on Netflix coming up? Is that what's happening here between the two of you? Well, I don't want to give it away yet. But yeah, the O-Dog versus the Stell Dog. I think it'll be better than the Winter Fight Jake Baller one. So I'm going to try to lay off the poppy treats and we could have a big announcement soon.

Kipper love hearing that. How are you? All these games crammed in Gord. I was telling the guys that obviously the schedule got kind of closed up a little bit during this past stretch. I think it's to shut down the league for four nations for three weeks coming up in February. But what have you been seeing out of the Toronto Maple Leafs or in general, gets to shut down the league for four nations for three weeks coming up in february but

what have you been seeing out of the toronto maple leafs or in general the games the last few weeks you know what well a number of things and one is that intangible well first of all the intangible about finding ways to win and i thought you know they had that horrible home game against ottawa we're getting killed by washington came back and won that game. And here they're looking to go back-to-back losses against two teams that they should beat. And they found a way to come back against the Buffalo Sabres. They got some depth scoring from Robertson and Domi. I know, of course, the hat trick from Tavares.

So, I mean, that's the good part I've seen. And you're right, it's a pretty jammed 82-game regular season. What does it mean in the playoffs? I mean, that's always the question. What's a pretty jammed 82-game regular season. What does it mean in the playoffs? I mean, that's always the question. What's lacked in the playoffs is what they're generally best at, and that is scoring goals. So it's hard to figure what the template will mean come playoff time, but I've liked that.

Whatever the style was, it's Craig Berube's, you know, a little bit of a different style, a little more of an emphasis on defense. They seem to have a little bit more depth, and they're in first place. Gord, did you have a moment like I did when Dennis Hildeby gave up a couple of softies to start the game? Well, the tackle was decent, but still, where you're like, uh-oh. Like, what does the Leafs' goaltending situation look like to you going forward? Has the Stolarz injury shaken your confidence a bit?

Well, for people old enough out there, it gave me nightmares and memories of Yuri Serha. Oh, who can forget Yuri Serha? Shaking your confidence a bit? Well, for people old enough out there, it gave me nightmares and memories of Yuri Serha. Oh, who can forget Yuri Serha? The whole bench just used to deflate, and you knew you were in a lot of trouble. So that, yeah, it's something we haven't seen so far. And, you know, Justin, first of all, depth-wise,

I don't know if this is about as good a goaltending tandem they've had for the halfway point of a season. Saying you're worried about injuries is valid, given, you know, Joe Wall's situation. Look at Freddie Anderson now in Carolina. It started at the end with the Leafs and went there. You look at Matt Murray. He's never really been able to get back still from any kind of injuries. And then Stolarz, he's had problems before,

but he's been the healthy guy. So, yeah, it kind of injuries. And then Stolarz, he's had problems before, but he'd been the healthy guy. So, yeah, it kind of reminds you about what happens if your goalie goes down. It could happen. What you have to do is what Vancouver did without Thatcher Demko for a chunk of it, and that's why you hope you keep the one-two depth. But, yes, I did have a bit of a post-traumatic stress,

traumatic memory of the infamous Yerry Serhaw area. Gord, it's hard to talk depth without mentioning that the Leafs are flirting with being the bottom third of scoring. I don't think anybody saw that coming up towards the Christmas break. So we saw last night against a struggling Buffalo Sabre team. Max Domi scores. It looked like they got a lot out of McMahon and Nick Robertson last night. Is that something that you want to see kind of play out,

let it breathe a little bit here, or do they really start looking for alternatives outside of their organization to look after some added scoring? I'm sure they're going to add a spice or two by the trade deadline. But, Kiffy, you know, that's the valid worry about – and even when they had scoring in the regular season, they weren't getting in the playoffs and they weren't getting depth scoring. You're kind of saying, where is our Nick Paul?

Who's going to get that big Nick Paul-type goal like Tampa Bay did against Toronto he did for Tampa Bay a few years ago? So I know – I don't know if you want to call it a tradeoff, whether that was intentional or what, to be a more years ago. So I know, I don't know if you want to call it a trade-off, whether that was intentional or what, to be a more complete team. But yes, it is what's let them down every playoff, not just depth scoring, but the big guys scoring. So goals are hard to come by. They're harder to come by in the playoffs.

They seem to have in the past found a way to get them in the regular season, but not in the playoffs. But yeah, I mean, everything's going well. You're winning. But, you know, does the tap get turned off a little too much? It doesn't come back. You know, you got to get Domi going. You got Max Pacioretty could be that guy.

Bobby McMahon could be that guy. I don't know if Nick Robertson could be that guy. But somewhere you're going to have to get some depth. There's no question about it, particularly in the playoffs, because you got to rely on more players. And the Florida Panthers, you know, they've leapfrogged past the maple leafs and you really saw last year what the depth in the playoffs meant for them gourd the leafs really like to play jake mccabe and chris tannev together which everyone should like they have a ton of success

when they're out there but that leaves morgan riley sort of once again struggling for a partner it's he's a weird guy for partnering reasons how do you like him with oel it doesn't seem like that's going to be a hey it's playoffs game one sort of solution well first of all you gotta love you you gotta love both tan and then oel i mean really and stories you really look at as nashville struggles with bigger name free signings, what Bradshaw living at least were able to do in the off season. And it's funny. I like, we always talk about how Luke Shen came in.

That was one of those great trade deadline pickups. That was kind of a quieter one for whatever reason really worked with Morgan Riley. There's always that debate about, you know, how much should the top D be able to do it himself with whatever partner first, trying to find the right kind of partner.

So I think, Justin, that's something they could explore come the trade deadline. But it's, yeah, it doesn't strike. Right now, that first pair, and of course, the D play a lot of minutes. You can sort of cave in the numbers. They can play more minutes in the playoffs as it goes. But there's no question, there's not the same fluidity or stability beyond that number one pair as far as being a cohesive unit and whether they address it or not uh i don't know but i think they certainly will look to sometimes i i watch morgan and i wonder if he's feeling internal pressure

to to produce and i think he's on pace for roughly, Gord, 40 points. Do you think at times he finds himself pushing just from the fact that he's supposed to be producing at $7.5 million a year? Well, you know, it's funny. We talked about with John Tavares for so often about that number, 11 million. And, you know, you look in baseball,

I think Freddie McGriff's a great example. Like some guy, if you ever look at his batting average, one year it's like 50 points higher than every other kind of season. And it's sort of say, well, okay, that was a blip. And same with Morgan Riley when he scored like 20 goals or whatever it was, you know, well, we thought that would be more often the case. And it is important to get as much offense as you can for the defense as well. So it's an interesting one because he's your number one defenseman. I'm big on him i'm very bullish on him well chris tan is up there too

but i mean he's been your number one defenseman say for about the past decade but you don't you don't get the wow factor with them like the victor headman factor about being the number one stud d and maybe kippy to your point and you would know it being able being a player that all of a sudden you get that number and there's these kind of expectations and maybe maybe you're trying to do a little bit too much i mean i think one thing with oel that he's become more comfortable about he's not the superstar the vancouver canucks thought they were getting or fans thought was supposed to be like he's a found a comfort zone now uh taking a step back and playing that particular kind of role so i think that's a constructive comment about Morgan Rodney at times.

Well, it's interesting because, you know, he did make up towards $8 million OEL in his heyday in Arizona, but he was also a guy that was supposed to produce 15, 20 goals a year. And he did. And he did. He had a good stretch there for a while. He did. No, absolutely. And I just, like I said, you know, I think that's a good example. So a while. He did. No, absolutely.

And I just, like I said, you know, I think that's a good example. So Morgan Rodney can't go there. He can't go there. This time in his career with the Toronto Maple Leafs, he's what kind of OEL, the thoughts of OEL were by Vancouver Canuck fans when he first arrived. Gord, Kip knows sometimes I feel like Matthews gets a bit of a rough ride on this show. I stick up for him a lot.

I'm the Matthews defender around here. Something's not right. You know, I don't know what your thoughts are on how he's looked lately, if he needs another trip to Germany. But it just doesn't seem like there's the same level of physicality or tenacity or energy. I don't know what it is, Gord. What do you see?

Am I crazy here? What's Kippy's problem with Austin Matthews? What's your problem, Kippy? He doesn't look anywhere near the second best player in the world. That's my problem. High expectations. Do you think it's because something's going on physically? I mean, we never know, but I have to think with all he's done that he's

not a hundred percent. So yeah, right now he's not going to win the heart trophy or those kinds of trophies right now, but you know, but you always want Austin Matthews in your lineup to say the least. So I will be a defender of Austin Matthews as well, but whatever the bet. And it was weird. There was that sideshow last year about him scoring 70 goals, you know, which I don't think was healthy at the end of the year last year either heading into the playoffs you know try to focus on that individual record so that that at least won't be a worry this year and maybe maybe maybe maybe everything means better team wise even though individual wise for some some players it isn't quite the same yeah listen your thoughts because we didn't talk about matthews yeah we didn't uh to your point it it just doesn't seem like he's all in right now he's getting points but maybe

it's physical maybe it is uh you know they never came clean on his injury and you know maybe he's just not there i honestly i think he lacks a little confidence right now around the net could be he's just not of that he has lots of chances yeah he has lots of chances and sometimes they should be non-chances sometimes i watch his wraparounds and i'm going those aren't working maybe back to the point or keep the play alive but you know there's a fine. And just to kind of touch a little bit on the Morgan Riley aspect, maybe there's a level of expectance that he needs to be the guy that's putting the puck in the net all the time. And under this system, maybe he's not a 60-goal scorer

under Craig Bruby's system. Maybe that might have something to do with it. Kippy, didn't you lead the NHL in non-chances one year? Do I remember correctly? Every year. Every year. every year wait a sec okay okay the creek whatever you know like let's leave the 70 goals alone in that whatever you know what have you as i said as you just articulated kippy if it means a better team concept i'm all for it i'm just just, you know, Austin Matthews, like, hey, he's kind of like Ovi last year, maybe like Ovechkin,

you know, last year at the start of the year, he had a bit of a dry spell, which was unusual. Not being 100% could be part of it. But, you know, I think that's one of,

you asked me, Kippy, starting off, one of the best things I saw was how that team, how Mitch Marner, which wasn't surprising, how everybody jumped up in the absence of Austin Matthews

and how they played as a team. And maybe his absence and this time around how people stepped up might be one of the best things that happened this season. Yeah, absolutely. Are you good on that if I turn the page? I am. Do you have a conclusion at all? No, but I am concluding that he doesn't look as effective as he has in the past

my one thought is you know mitch marner hasn't been as effective since matthews has been back either or do we maybe want to go back to giving marner his own line and see if matthews can make it work somewhere else i don't know do you am i is that a crazy thought no it's not uh and and the power play hasn't looked as well. I like that thought. I like that thought. I like that thought about, you know, just, yeah, that there's a lot more options out there for Craig Berube to try, I think. I like that thought very much.

Yeah, and getting McMahon back is a big one for me, Gord. Like, he's just got this great combination of speed and size. He was physical. And all of a sudden, he takes a third line from being just the third line to a line that can produce and chip in a little bit. Do you think that's what changed for Domian Robertson is just getting someone on the wing who can kind of make some space and get some pucks? Well, yeah.

You know, someone's got to get you the puck. You're right. And that could be it. Like, so again, but let's throw another one back, Justin, about just Max Pacioretty. Now, again, if he can stay healthy, he's huge. But what's impressed me about him, it's a very different stage of his career. If you look back, he had a really consistent run with the Montreal Canadiens

with 30-goal seasons and that. He's playing different now. He's playing more aggressive. He's showing more snot that Brad Trelew wants. He understands, like, it's a different setup here. It's a different kind of role. And I really admire those kinds of players that late in their career can say, you know, we see Corey Perry having done it,

that there's a different component I've got to try and stress. Now, I know I have to say it's incomplete, a lot of it due to injuries because of him. But that's another option that really has intrigued me. Yeah, for me, now it's just moving forward, the reliability of both these guys. They have a lot of guys that you like, but you're nervous about.

Goalies, McMahon, Timmons, Pacioretty. End of the playoffs this year on a couple occasions. It's like, are you going to, will you be there? I don't think anybody's nervous on whether or not you could contribute or look effective when you're in, but can we count on you being there at the end? Well, you know, Justin, it's like, it's like when you're single and you're dating, there's a lot of girls you like, but you're nervous about it, right?

Ultimately, ultimately you hope the right one comes around like it has for the three of us and we are blessed and uh and maybe maybe that's how it plays out in the hockey sense it's uh it is funny like just seeing nick robertson shoot the puck in the net have a good game being on a part of an effective line you can see what it was supposed to look like going into this year like it was supposed to look like going into this year. Like it was supposed to look like against Buffalo every third game, maybe, but I don't know.

Is it too late for him to salvage his season? Well, not too late. I was disappointed that he wasn't able to seize that opportunity playing, you know, playing a lot of games consistently getting decent ice time. And, you know,

it's, that's all you always want. You always say, look, I want the chance. I want the chance. And I wouldn't say he squandered the chance, but he, but he's not embraced the chance. And, you know, that's all you always want. You always say, look, I want the chance. I want the chance. And I wouldn't say he squandered the chance, but he's not embraced the chance.

So the line you're talking about is like, okay, you know, I go back, you know, Gary Volk got that big goal like 25 years ago. Okay, who can get that big goal in the playoffs that wins the series against the Philadelphia Flyers like he did or Pittsburgh, whatever it was back then, and move on? Like, like you know which one of them can get that timely goal that has been part of the the Leaf scoring drought in the playoffs in recent years and it still is a bit it still is kind of an evaluation process I mean a couple years ago Michael Bunting supplanted Nick Ritchie Nick Ritchie couldn't do it Michael Bunting said, okay, man, this guy's fitting in on the top six,

and he's going to be your guy. Right now, you've still got a lot of feelers out there. I mean, I thought the analogy Brad Terlittman used, that we only got so many seats on the plane, and we got more passengers than actual seats, still applies. Okay. Before break, I bet these guys that you couldn't name four of Santa's reindeer. Not four, Gord.

You want to take a crack at it? Yeah, well, Rudolph, Dasher, Dixon, Vixen, Vixen, Kotze. Yeah, you got that one. Wait, wait, come Prancer. Come Prancer. Come Vixen come Prancer. Come Prancer. Come Vixen. Come Jimmy. Come Ralphie.

I don't know, man. I got to switch religions. I'm on the wrong one here. I got to start celebrating. Ralph, Richie, Potsy. Keep going. You know what they are? They're Canadian reindeer.

Boy, oh boy. I can only imagine the gifts that you're giving. What are they now? I'm on the hot seat here. I don't know. Dasher only imagine the gifts that you're giving. What are they now? I'm on the hot seat here. I don't know. Dasher. Donner. Dasher, that's right.

Donner. Dancer. Dancer. Was there a Prancer? Prancer. That's right. Yeah. Vixen.

Think Valentine's Day. Cupid. Yeah. There's no Cupid. Yeah. No way. Yeah. What a bad handle.

Comet. What's he talking about? It's aggressive to name a reindeer Vixupid. Yeah. No way. Yeah. What a bad handle. Comet? What's he talking about? It's aggressive to name a reindeer vixen. I don't know. All right. Okay, we got to cut this off. I don't know. This was your question, not mine.

Yeah. Okay. I don't know. I'm going to go to another Santa question. Gordy and Dougie. Great job as always, pal. Have a great Christmas, okay? Will do.

Hey, Merry Christmas. Happy holidays to everybody. And yeah, fun as always. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Gord. Appreciate it. All right. Don't go away.

Jason York coming up. Yorkie. He'll name all eight. He's a sharp guy. More with Yorkie as we go national on The Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Be right back. We'll be right back.