Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: The Boys Are Back

Episode Date: October 6, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee begin with a post-mortem on the Blue Jays season. Are there similarities between John Schneider and Sheldon Keefe in terms of decision-making autonomy and which player in the core four most resembles Vladimir Guerrero Jr.? Next, the guys get into preseason talk. How much can you read into the results and performances so far and how impressed have they been by Fraser Minten and Easton Cowan? Looking ahead to the season, the guys discuss what is making them hopeful. Will making it past round one last year impact the Maple Leafs' mindset moving forward, how will Max Domi, Ryan Reaves and the new additions fit in with the group, and should we be concerned with the Leafs' depth on the blueline? The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

how long do we get to listen to this new music i like it i don't know what listeners think a new intro music for us i I think I like it. This is our third season. And listening to that, I can't even remember the original song now. Can you share it with me? You want me to sing the music? Hum it. I can't.

Can you, Sammy? Absolutely not. Brandeo, do we have the old music or do you want to hum it for us? That's all I got. Oh, yeah, I don't want to hum that, thanks. No one's got the hook. Real Kipper and Born. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da. All right, for all of you out there, stop taxing us.

It's the old music. Oh, yeah. There it is. All right. All right. All right. Okay. Now I can't remember the one we just came in with 30 seconds ago. Six concussions will do that to you.

You know that, right? No, I don't know how many I've had, but I'm with you. Stop texting us, everybody. We're back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is real. Holy. Sammy, did you respond to everybody out there asking well when

are you guys coming back i will say i take it as a compliment for our show that people are very interested in us coming back and i would say it's due to toronto blue jays it's been a little later than than it was last year and yeah but at some point the overwhelming amount of messages i was receiving i was like i think i should take it upon myself and send out a tweet so i don't have to answer this anymore right and you know i got multiple texts this morning from big people when you're back on it i'm like just read instagram and my twitter like i put it on ready we're ready we're back no one loves the day off or day offs more than me. I know that.

I'd love them permanently, to be honest with you, at my age. Not you guys. Me. Yeah, okay. But it was feeling really weird watching storylines and training camp go through and just sitting on the sidelines. Babs came and went, and we didn't even have time to say anything. Few things.

Even Stamkos. There's pain coming. Right? Even Stamkos coming out and kind of giving a shot to Tampa Bay going, hey, remember I led two Stanley Cup parades here? Yeah, I'm back. I'm out some back pay. In boats.

Yeah. But, you know, where's my extension? So all this fun stuff's going on, and we're home. I know. I have been eager to get in here. And now that I say that, now that I'm back in this studio, it feels like I never left. Well, what's funny is, so I don't know if people know this.

This is our only show in this studio, barring catastrophe. Yeah. To the other studio. Yeah. Starting Tuesday, we're moving to our new time slot, fellas. Four to six. Four to six in a brand new studio. At least our studio.

New to us. On the fan. New to us. On the fan, of course. On Sportsnet 360 from four to six regionally and on sportsnet nationally from five to six and of course on sportsnet plus as well but we're everywhere fellas ready for that i yeah i mean yes and we always do national conversation in the second hour anyway and absolutely ready and i didn't mind at the time telling people around me going,

hey, we work for Rodgers, and Rodgers owns the Blue Jays, and this is all about playoff baseball, and the Jays are in, and I'm texting. Come on, let's have a long run. And I wanted a long run. And if it meant being pushed to the side a little bit in october oh big deal let's have some fun with the baseball and then i'm like watching the jays and it's like we were pushed on the side for that you were like for that crap you were like jose barrios you're like put me

on the sideline for the betterment of the team even if i'm bringing smoke that's what you were saying exactly i mean do we want to do this or oh no no just give it a minute give it a minute i need i need a blue jay conversation and it's because it's for me it's not baseball hockey it's sports sports it's athletes it's hey who rises when it matters the most that to me is the is the interesting part of of what we've watched not only in the last few days against minnesota but what we watched with a team that uh should be competing for a world series still today that failed miserably well best pitching in baseball big bats in theory unlike you guys who were on summer vacation i was in the day-to-day grind of watching and talking about this team every single day and i said very early on that this team just simply doesn't have it this the the the texas series broke me to a point where I really didn't recover from,

even when they came back and won all those games afterwards. I still never really believed because of how they played in that series. But, you know, the Twins didn't score many runs in those games. I think they scored five runs and they lost both those games. They scored one run. You can talk about that. But watching John Schneider pop out of the dugout after Barrios puts Royce Young on and to go to Kikuchi was a different type of anger

that I've ever felt as a sports fan. It was almost a sad disgust knowing that my favorite, well, my second favorite sport, very close to favorite sport, was just, it's just irreparably changed. It's never going to be the same. It's a different sport than I grew up loving.

And I just watched him pop out of there. And I just, the funniest part of the whole thing was Buck, who was just beside himself when he's like, I don't like the way Kikuchi's throwing. He's like, he's looking intense in there. I was like, I know. Is he actually going to come into this game?

He pops out of the bullpen, out of the dugout, goes out there, takes out Barrios, and whatever happens, happens. And I just, I've never been that mad. That's as mad as I've been watching a Toronto sports team in my whole life. Okay, and. I know they didn't score. They made a bunch of boneheaded errors. in my whole life. Okay. I know they didn't score. They made a bunch of boneheaded errors. It doesn't validate the pitching decision just because they didn't score.

That was insane. Insane. So here we are launching our third season of Real Kipper and Bourne. We've managed a couple of disappointments for the Toronto Maple Leafs in the last two years on our shows. Yeah. disappointments for the Toronto Maple Leafs in the last two years on our shows yeah where does this Jay's playoff collapse rank in most disappointment that Jay fans in history have had compared to what Leaf fans have had the last what six seven tries well a lot of Jay's fans who

are like Jay's only fans and there's not a ton of them but there are a lot of them that kind of look down their nose at the leafs and i think the reputation the leafs have absolutely has to be transferred over to this jays this era of blue jays baseball they haven't like say what you will about the leafs they've won big playoff games they've lost in the first round but they've won games in the playoffs this era of blue jays baseball is now oh and six in their playoff games they've never won a playoff game their biggest guys have choked down the stretch you look at what happened with vlad you look at what happened with bow striking out in big spots all the time like one extra base hit between them in their playoff career it's you know it's a different thing baseball and hockey it's, you know, it's a different thing. Baseball and hockey. It's hard to compare the two,

but like, I want people to talk about the blue Jays with the same choker breath that they do about the Leafs. It's in the same category. It's worse. The difference for me is like the Leafs at least made you believe you, particularly the year within the pandemic when they're playing Montreal and the path forward is like,

you really believe that team could win it all. You watch the Jays from start to finish this year. That team couldn't hit with anyone in scoring position the whole year. They got thrown out on the bases the whole year. Like, they lost the way they played all year. The Bears, would you say the Bears are who we thought they were? Yeah.

The Bears are who we thought they were. That's right. There was no, to me, this was not like, where did that come from? Like, the Leafs losses was like, God, where did they go? Yeah. This was just who the Jays have been have been okay this is where it doesn't matter baseball hockey hockey baseball and this is where it's great having jb on the show because at his age and what he's now where his wheelhouse is i'm pulling this right into the dreaded word analytics and yeah let's um i don't know where all those analytic

guys are on the jays but you better be hiding right now oh yeah because this is the part where you're like where does it where's that line crossed between this is a game, it's a feel, it's a gut instinct, or you're going to go to the sheer numbers that were derived from someone's computer in an office where we don't even know your name. Wow. Great job. Well, you know, this is. Is my thing malfunctioning? What's happening the relevant

thing here is the blake snell poll from the rays uh game you know in tampa bay when they went all analytics and he was like the guy at the time and and you know you you asked their management after if they regretted it and they didn't they said they you know that's how they got there whatever to me sports are about reacting in real time. That's the challenge on the ice, on the field, as a coach, as a manager, whatever. You can have a game plan, and the analytics can help you build that game plan. But you need to be able to see what's happening

in real time and pivot. And Barrios looked, by all accounts, the best he has as a Blue Jay. That's the best he's ever looked, as a Jay. So you have to be able to read and react. And so to say this was our plan the whole time, well, you need to be able to alter your plans. You need to be open-minded enough.

And like the ultimate thing to me is managing a binder as opposed to the people is you say Kikuchi has been one of the more fragile guys over the last two years with the Jays where it goes off the rails quickly, starts walking guys. He he has confidence issues all this stuff and you bring him into a spot where he's not comfortable as a reliever there was a runner on base and it's like sure making them put in a pinch hitter who's not as good as like all that stuff maybe on paper makes sense but you're not managing people you're just managing numbers like burrios was dialed in and you bring a guy into his out of his comfort zone who's a bit of a you know he's he has a bit of confidence issues and to put him

in that spot is just and people are saying well it's not john snyder's fault it's not john snyder's fault well ultimately he's on the top step fellas and he has eyeballs and he has the chance to not do the wrong thing he has the chance to over he's the manager in the dugout they put him there he could he overruled he's getting fired anyway he's getting fired anyway they're not gonna get a run there he doesn't know are you sure i hope so i think he thought it is the best way to stay the manager you know hope the plan. So my go-to guy, Jeff Blair tells me that they've got a press conference tomorrow, which is Saturday on a long weekend,

right? With four games on top that day. Yeah. Classy. So I'd say savvy. It'll be interesting to see who stays and who, who goes. And you mentioned Schneider,

the, the manager here. How do you fire a guy for executing your plan? Okay, all right, here's one for you. How do you go back into a clubhouse next year? As the manager. As the manager. When you start telling players what to do

and they look at you and go, is that you or is that some guy on his computer in the third row of the of the rogers center no they've completely made him lame duck you're done spot you're done they're never gonna look at you and respect you but if he executes that move and they win and it works it's no different they know you're not making that call there's just no way that was ever going to work the sports gods karma everything it was just so keep trying until it finally works for you and then you could save face no i i mean i'm saying they put him in a spot where he couldn't win with his players if you think that matters or players in this era are going to be more accepting that some of the decisions go from the top and through the conduit that is the manager

or in the NHL, the coach. So last year, Sheldon Keefe calls out. Listen, this is Keefe and not Babcock, right? That's why Babs is out for Kyle. Keefe questions his stars early, right? And then backpedals in his comments early last season. And we asked, is that Sheldon or is that right kyle is it brendan where is it coming from somewhere else it just it doesn't doesn't mac match yeah so that's

what schneider's issues is if he stays is like come on like every decision made everything anything that gets questioned as a manager that you would never question in the history of the game beforehand now gets questioned but this is also there's no hockey parallel to this though there's no like switching a goal a halfway through a playoff game because it's a better matchup like you can't play back to back anymore now that's yeah but on the playoffs kipper it's the same it's there's no parallel to this well there is though there is like the way the you know like dubas didn to this well there is though there is like the way the you know like dubious didn't think that babcock would you know play the way he wanted

his team to play so they bring in a guy who will execute the possession style and and this is part of managing you know our own boss probably gets some word from above him about things he has to tell us and sometimes it's we know it's not his that's just life like he's probably like hey hockey show talk about hockey so uh i'm not quite i'm not quite done on this because again the parallels between the leafs and the jays i kind of like right now they both have superstars and now you're getting into their careers going boy great great segment here so listen we've spent the last year and a half going uh either does matthews resign uh do you trade a core four guy nylander's gotta go marner's gotta go this guy can stay where where are you on vladi right now here's the question which of the core four is Vladdy? Oh, my.

He's Willie Nylander. No. He's Nylander because he's the most talented guy who frustrates people with intermittent lack of attention to detail. Yeah. I can't argue with him right there. He's got a ton of skill. That's a great point.

Could use a little more focus on the base paths. Or you could say he's, hey, you could say he's Austin Matthews. He's had heights of home runs. He's had career years. He was the home run king. Right. And, you know, Matthews scored big against Tampa. Couldn't get it done against Florida.

Yeah. So is it more Matthews or Nylander? I don't think there's a parallel. He's definitely a unique individual. I think, yeah, it's somebody like, it's having the Matthews hype and then performing like Willie, I guess. I played golf with someone yesterday who said that they think Vladdy is the most hateable star athlete this city has ever had.

Wow, that's a hot take. I don't know. Just because of all, I don't agree at all. I love Vladdy. That'd be the only sports jersey i would own probably i don't get that sense people like i like i get you know what i the worms turn this is what i see with laddie okay he's just immature he's just an immature kid he hasn't grown up he hasn't learned how to be a pro he's still so young that's the crazy part

he's always he 23 he's young that's a young age but he's he lacks i think baseball intelligence i'm sorry i i don't i don't per se to be a baseball expert here despite the 15 minute open of this show but when you've when you've played a game your whole life and you've had a dad like that, where you've watched and you've had him as an expert growing up, and you get picked off at second. That just can't happen. And you get picked off. I don't even know the hockey equivalent.

How about this? We should find it because it's a hockey show. Here's the equivalent to me of Vladdy getting picked off. I don't even know the hockey equivalent. How about this? We should find it because it's a hockey show. Here's the equivalent to me of Vladdy getting picked off. Okay? Is I don't know. First round game seven. Okay?

Marner and Matthews on a two-on-oh breakaway and Bertuzzi goes offside. Yeah, maybe. that's my equivalent to Vladdy getting picked off at second with men in scoring position and your best hitter at the plate. I don't care how loud it was in there. I will say it's a great play. I don't care.

It's a great play. The thing is, I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I appreciate that. I'm just saying it was well done. When Sonny Gray turned around with that ferocity, I was like, oh my God, no. He had it in hand. I was like, oh my God, no. Holding him on second. I walked out. I went out

to my front yard. I took a lap. I was so bad. You smoke again? No. Back into the darts? No darts. No darts. You know, and just the, you know, the Gatorade after every... Hey, lose two in a row to get in playoffs and drink champagne with ski goggles. Okay, who's talking about the Leafs? Come on.

Yeah, let's do the Leafs. Oh, my God. That's 18 large on the Jays on our first show of the year. It's overlapping with the Leafs. What is wrong with you guys? Get into preseason. I think we just had a preseason segment. Can I tell you guys that the texts are flowing in about the Jays?

People are still loving the Jays talk. They're hot. They're hot. And, yeah, I'm glad he's 24. I'll stick around all year. He's 24. Because it's... It's going to...

I mean, it's a fascinating offseason. It ain't going away. Fascinating offseason. I'll tell you one thing. George Springer's definitely John Tavares. That's a parallel you can make easily. You've been looking for it and found it. Oh, no, no.

Just share. Please. I want to hear this. Well, just big contract of a star that's coming over to i mean i guess he actually won something so maybe there's a difference there but i think it's a big star coming over to kind of insulate your you're already young core i think it's a pretty maybe overpaid now it's a pretty good parallel i thought springer's made of glass though yeah all right so what'd you think of hockey yesterday, Hockeyman? Okay, first of all. I got thoughts.

Would you have, would you have, have you been paying close attention to preseason? I want you honest. No BS here. Yeah, I've been on TV, man. You were on TV. I had to talk about this stuff. I'm not saying we weren't on TV and I'm not saying that we, you know, but like, come on, how in are you every year on training camp? How important is it? How much are you reading into or not reading into training camp?

Yeah, I get what you're getting at. You know, like I have had the, the game on in the room when I've been in there, I guess I've been paying attention for to the, what stands out and there's a couple things. Fraser Minton which we'll get to easton cowan has been a stand out for me like there's been stories like a little from columbia sure and that's the truth couple of injuries but this team is the most built a team can be going into camp you know there wasn't i think even tree living said there's not like a lot of help wanted signs up and down the roster this year sammy you i would say i've been about 80 into training camp

like i keep a close eye i've watched many of the games couldn't get through the first one on that sunday it was like 2 p.m i was five minutes i was like nope no way but as the preseason goes on and the guys get progressively better and it's still they're still wearing Leafs jerseys they're still playing hockey I do watch I think yeah it's just when your team is good it's less important like when you are like say you're a team like the Habs or a team like I don't know crappy team x where you're watching you're like want to see how your young guys perform and how what the future looks like I think everyone knows what the Leafs are going to be like this year so they just kind of get through without injury and get me to October 11th. It's kind of the way people feel about it.

You, Kip? Yeah, not that much. Obviously, I knew I was going back on air and JB and Elliot and Dave. We've got a terrific year coming up on the regionals for the Leafs. So gearing up towards that game, a lot more attention to detail and been that way since that game against Montreal. But prior to that, not a heck of a lot of focus and concentration. And to be honest with you, in this market,

you don't have to be because there's so much talk there's so and listen i'm i'm feeling like everybody else with minton and and cowan that they're gonna be good players and there's something to look forward to and yeah they're noticeable but Toronto, like typical Toronto media over hype, like crazy. And this is you, Sammy. Oh, this isn't me. I actually have a thought on this. It's like, it's, it's over the top. It's high mine though.

Like a few people say, I like Minton. Minton's the second coming. He is. David Camp. He is. David Kampf? He is. Excellent point. Do we know what for sure? No.

Like everybody wants to say now that Minton is like going to be a star. I don't know if he's going to be a star. They like him. Yeah. 32 teams really like all their prospects. Oh, isn't that the case? By the way, I was looking at waivers today, and I was like, I remember when most of these guys

were the next big thing. Yeah. I think Toronto fans in general have that, because they've been bad so much in a lot of leaf fans lives that they have this inherent new shiny toy thing with them it's like these prospects when they didn't have awesome matthews william neilander john tavaris and mitch marner as their four as their forwards you know like it was yeah you know you know i had serious mikhail grabowski conversations and serious uh clark mccarthur clark mccarthur conversation like conversations about guys that you hyped yourself up about

that you shouldn't have. And I think a lot of that still bleeds over with like a Minton or Cowan. They just want to see the next guy when the really good guys are just in front of you. That's kind of an issue. And it's funny, people like us get asked, who do you like at camp?

And if I say I like Minton, and then Elliot also does, and Mike Feud also does, all of a sudden people are going, boy, a lot of buzz about this Minton guy. It's like, I like him this much more than I like...inton, and then Elliot also does, and Mike Feud also does. All of a sudden, people are going, boy, a lot of buzz about this Minton guy. It's like, I like him this much more than I like... How about picking another guy? You know who I like?

William Nylander. How about picking everybody the same guy? That's the right answer. He's been the most impressive young guy. Oh, young guy. William Nylander's been the most impressive guy. Well, give him 10 million. Coward.

Okay, it's eight. Should we talk about it? Tons of topics to get into. Just to remind everybody that the last few years we had YouTube. We're not on YouTube. We're going to be on, as Sammy has

stipulated, the big television. And Sportsnet Plus. Sportsnet Plus. Which used to be Sportsnet Now. But we do want people to be texting us as well. Yes. We need you because you don't have the chat so listen to kip now no yeah and sammy just send them all to sammy okay don't text me people but okay you're not gonna give out your number to text don't text my twitter or my ex or whatever

we call it today 95 90 push it all sammy's way message kip on OnlyFans. Don't text my ex. That's a different feeling. Do not direct message me or anything like that. Any complaints or compliments. No, give me the compliments. Just give Sammy the crap. Right. That's fair.

Put it. Save in your phone. 590-590. Send us your text all throughout the show because we will use that content. Because we were launching season three right here, right now. We're going to welcome in Doug McClain at the top of the hour. Of course, Mac has

found a way to make himself relevant again. He wrote a book. I thought our show kept him relevant. I told him, without our show the last few years, you're not writing a book. I love listening to you when I'm on.

That's the former NHL president, GM, and head coach, and author of Draft Day, How Hockey Teams Pick Winners or Get Left Behind. I haven't gone through the book completely, but there is some fascinating stuff in this book, and I'm not blowing smoke right now on him. And Sammy, you'll appreciate this, but we,

as it's still regarded as the biggest NHL trade in history is Eric Lindros. And he probably, well, him and Scott Morrison, I don't doubt for a second, have revisited that trade. Like no one ever has before where they've gotten, and we'll get them on the air to talk about this a little bit,

as many as 12 or 14 teams to completely break down the offers that they threw. Oh, really? Quebec. Quebec. To get Lindros. to get lindros and that includes trade uh the toronto maple leafs yeah um eiserman was thrown uh he was offered patrick waugh i believe was offered back then i would have talked about landscape. As Doug would say out east, huge.

Huge. Huge. Doug Trump. Names. Huge. So it's going to be a lot of fun going over draft day with him. That'll be great. And then we got in the second hour,

we'll get through some NHL news and notes. Stuff happened around the league. We're going to be doing that a lot all season long as well. So stick around for the next hour and a half and the whole season on The Real Kipper and Bourne Show. We are so pleased to be back on the air. Okay, Sammy, you brought it up. Willie Nylander.

Is that the biggest story, you think? You know, if we kind of broke it down to uh what gives you the most hope uh will would you go sammy first to willie is that where you're leaning towards like in terms of just for the whole season i think what gives you hope sammy the fact that they got past first round last year gives me hope like that conversation isn't one that we're having this year and it was like you know i know they're not they didn't really succeed a whole lot in the second round and that's a different conversation but't one that we're having this year. And it was like, you know, I know they're not, they didn't really succeed a whole lot in the second round. And that's a different conversation.

But the fact that they got that first round monkey off their back matters to me. Just so irrelevant. What? Wow. Yeah. Kipper, we spent every day talking about them not getting past the first round last

year. You know how I felt last year about setting the bar low with this team and the talent that they had, that it just, it's conference final, it's the Stanley Cup final. They've been groomed for three, four years, and now it's, what, year seven? That ship sailed.

First round win, give me one in the first four years, but after that, Sammy uh like that that second round was so disappointing that i i don't i don't get a small win to me your statement about getting over tampa being a huge thing is kind of like the jays celebrating giving up 12 runs right and needing the last day of the season to make the playoffs. What do you think? Do you think it matters? Well, I remember a lot of last season was spent debating the very question,

what is success for this Toronto Maple Leafs team? Is it just a win or is it, and the bar changing throughout the year, I think after the deadline, expectations went up. They made some really nice additions, grabbing Shin, Achari, O'Reilly. It was a big deadline. Prior to that, it felt like a round probably would have cut it as a success.

But in saying that... But I don't think it's nothing. There's been a price to pay for that. Oh, yeah. And that's including draft picks. picks yeah they've picked 11 times of their last 21 picks also cost them salary cap issues yes there's been massive massive repercussions for failing to get through but i will say like what i find hopeful my hopeful piece of this is that this core,

this team only goes as far as this core. And I am hopeful because they are still young, but not young anymore. As in they're no longer the young kids who haven't been through it with no scars and hopeful. They are by every objective measure, middle-aged players now. They've been through it. They have some experience, but they're still in their primes. They're entering their prime prime, prime, prime, prime here.

This is it. And they have slayed a dragon getting through. One of them was something, you know, the second round, how they went out, really tainted the view of that first round series. You know, I know Sheldon Key feels that way that like. It was a really close series. You know, Tampa. Yes.

Tampa played well at heart. They won three OT games, didn't they? They couldn't win an overtime at home. Yeah. The Leafs were owed one of those series where they're probably not the better team, but they win it. But I do think having primey prime players that have been through it a little bit, they're in a good spot. like their additions i'm hopeful sammy says uh the mental

part of uh getting through tampa how about you it's going into the sea it's age for me that makes me hopeful you know that they are where they are in their careers that they're all here willie we'll see kippy what about you buddy uh you know one of the great things about doing a doing our show on monday and then uh doing this today was i also uh went back to the toronto star wrote an article this week and uh that was on just the three editions of of ryan reeves domi and tyler bertuzzizi and what they represent. And I'm not here to tell you that they are the complete answer here, but just that change of philosophy with Brad Tree Living compared to Kyle Dubas and one of the things I wrote in the article that you can find on my X page.

Just call it Twitter. Please tell me I can call it Twitter. Just call it Twitter. Is the fact that last year, and we talked about this, Max Domi wanted to be a Toronto Maple Leaf last year. And he just wanted nothing to do with it. And there's no way

Max is still here if Kyle's here. So that change of philosophy, the fact that, you know, you've, who knows? Who knows? There's some people that do feel that way for sure. If he was a hound, he'd have been a leaf a long time ago. But the fact is that I'd switch out Max Domi for Alex Kerfoot. You guys know how I felt about Alex Kerfoot. You know, he can help you get there for 82 games.

We're back! Flex Seal can help you for 82 games, but I don't want to try to... And stop leaks, man. Don't want to try to win a seven-game series with the guy. Yeah. Right? He did literally score an overtime goal to help him win a seven game series with the guy. Yeah. Right. He did literally score an overtime goal to help them win a seven game

series. I know. It helps you get there and also through. No, I know. So, so just that, that change of philosophy,

if you want to call it that, or mindset that you're going to have to find a way to get, to get a little greasier and it's not necessarily on those three guys to constantly do something individually but it'll just be that ripple effect it'll have through the room and does it does it push the guys that you're talking about being older and more seasoned and aged and are they ready now to feel the effects of what it takes not just to get by one round and feel really good sammy it's to go deep to be ready for four six or eight weeks of playing with high-intensity hockey. But the question is, do you view Domi as tough, Kippy?

Listen, I think he can play many different ways. And what is tough? Like, don't be confused here with, like, just being resilient, being a guy that doesn't go away, that's in your face, that keeps coming at you, that can beat you different ways. That's the toughness that I want. Can Max play that way?

Absolutely he can. I want to say this about Domi. So I think he's a great addition and will help the team. So I don't want anyone to commit to misconstrue what I'm saying is a negative. But fun fact on him, he actually threw 30 less hits than mitch marner last year mitch had 52 hits to domey's 22 so anyone out there thinks like domey's gonna come be a bully that's not it but what i do think is that uh you know those like small dogs that go up to the big dogs and are unafraid and and yap at them and we'll look them in the eye lewis my dog

yeah okay lewis there you go i think he's a little bit of a lewis like he is uncompromising he is he will look you in the eye and punch you in the face you know like he doesn't he doesn't back down and i think that in itself is a compliment something the leafs haven't had a ton of they've had some of if lewis is chewing on my pant leg and i swat him away. What does Lewis do? Oh, he'll get mad. He'll get mad. Oh, he stays in it.

Yeah, I got to play this for Lewis tonight, by the way. So now he knows that you guys are talking about. By the way, Lewis is a wiener dog. Yes, yes. A little dachshund. Yeah. He's the man. But yes. So it's not about a domey referendum here.

It is. And again, those three guys are the answer? Probably not. And we'll see where Ryan Reeves ends up. He might be the answer. Right. We'll see where Ryan Reeves, can he stay in the lineup? Are there some nights that he doesn't play?

And do you expect him to be an everyday player in the playoffs 82 games will dictate that yeah that's an interesting one for sure but i do think looking back at these leafs teams it would have been nice to have someone in the regular season even if they weren't the most versatile player to to just be the the fear, having Luke shin for the Leafs last year was a real eye opener about, gosh, it's nice to have someone on the ice who's just, we'll stand between the benches and I thought the stand up for the guys. I thought him beating the crap out of,

you know, was like a real turning point in that series. Like I actually thought that mattered. And I thought that a lot of them kind of played bigger after that happened. And he, he did it to Maroon too, in the regular season, that last game of the year, he knocked him out happened. And he did it to Maroon, too, in the regular season.

That last game of the year, he knocked him out of the game. Like, having that guy, still hockey. Still matters. Still hockey. So, those three additions are three forwards. I'd really like if one of them was playing a defense role here because that, me is a major concern and i don't want to make too much out of training camp but so far uh does anybody like what they've seen off the blue line well uh what you look fine why don't we talk about that after the break why don't we take a break and

talk about that after oh yeah yeah sammy, you're throwing a break right now? Oh, by the way, people should know. We have an extra break. More breaks. Not more time spent breaking. Yes. Just a more frequent, shorter break with the new show. All right.

Sounds good. We're going to get into the Leaf defense after we take this break on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show show year three. Nick Kiprio, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. Real Kipper and Bourne. Back at it for another season. Just prior to break, we talked about maybe the biggest concern

off this roster collectively toronto maple leaf blue line how good is it is it good enough good enough over 82 games good enough to win a round or two but is it good enough to challenge for the stanley cup jb uh on a scale of one to five or 1 to 10, wherever you want to go. Level of concern. I'll take your 1 to 10 scale. It gives me a little bit more flexibility. And I'll say I'm a 7 out of 10 concerned.

I'm concerned. 3.5 out of 5 if you'd like. I can do other fractions. But it's real. Looking at this group, what we saw in playoffs last year that was concerning was who can be a shutdown guy regular season you had bro or brody be your shutdown guy he struggled yeah jeer dan will be a shutdown guy he struggled jake mccabe ended up being was either top toi d-man in playoffs he was far too involved and probably

not quite acquitted to that role so who is going to do the defending is it lilligren probably not is it timmons clingberg you know they need to plug a hole by playoffs i take it sammy you weren't overly charged up about the the giordano uh simone benoit combination. Boy, I was concerned. I felt like they were on the ice the whole game. Like every time the puck went back behind the net. I know I've been on the record after watching the first couple preseason games being like, well, Gio didn't get any faster,

and he's going to be very important to them. That's the thing. It's like, you know, trading the Willie conversation in the offseason with trading Willie and, you know, potentially looking on the decor. After watching him play in the preseason with trading Willie and, you know, potentially looking on the D core. After watching him play in the preseason, I'm like, holy crap. How can you ever imagine losing a guy like that? That's like, how important is he to your team offensively?

He's really good. He's just going to get better. But like, is what he brings more important than adding someone significant that's going to play 25 minutes on the back end? Wow. The knee-lander for a D talk right now let's do it their d is not good and it's not championship caliber though just how do you get better and you know talking to elliot team talk yeah mid talking to elliot uh earlier in the week about the feeling that they did look. They looked for defense. And Elliot may have felt that they even maybe put Willie Nylander out there

as some bait to see what's out there. And there's nothing out there. Nothing. There's no help right now. There's no way that teams, There was nothing, Kipper. They're putting William Nylander out there for... The scary thing with Willie is you've got to pay him after this year, right?

That would be a big part of it. The risk of losing. How many teams out there would be willing to give up their top defenseman for Willie Nylander if you know that he may walk in a year. It's fair.

So I guess it has to come with the extension or whatever, and that's hard to nail out. I guess it's fair, but just saying that there's nothing for William Nylander is a hard thing to believe because he looks unbelievable. But, I mean, that's – I'd say that's been their best player. To kind of back off individuals, you know, per se, like naming Willie, the general feeling out there is that forwards are a dime a dozen compared to good D.

And you do not give up. If in a perfect world, you do not, you know, defense are more important. Well, I mean, you look at Vegas and what they will do. Even a Willie at this point. Yeah.

Vegas is decor last year with Petrangelo and Theodore and McNabb and white cloud and hag like that was so good. The Tampa one with Hedman and Sergeyev and McDonough and Chernak, like loaded decors have won the Stanley Cup recently. And so it's hard to look at Lilligren, Timmons, McCabe, Klingberg, you know, these guys and go, yeah, that's going to get you there. However, I would like to say, I don't think it's a bad decor. Riley and Brody is a really, really good pair to start with.

Jake McCabe is a good player. John Klingberg has the potential to be a great regular season player for them. Played one preseason game, by the way. Yeah, not great. But anyway, Lilligren, too, is ready to take a step. I think they're puck movers. They're skaters. They're not playoff built. They're not physical. No, they're not.

That hurts them in the playoffs. But I think they're going to win games with this core. I don't think this D-core is bad. No, no, no, no, no. I mean, they could still win the division. They could still end up with 105, 110 points. I think they will. I think that's the exact parameters for my expectation this year,

which is high. How do you challenge Tampa and Florida in back-to-back series if you don't have a bigger physical defense. Simone Benoit comes in, a guy that's played some games in Anaheim. Excellent opportunity. The door is wide open. Have you seen anything that he has influenced the last couple exhibition games?

I don't think he can play right now in the National Hockey League. You don't know. He knows what he is. And what is he? He is a guy who puts it off the glass and he tries to hit the body when he can. That's all I've seen. In terms of like, I'm not saying he even does that well. But he is at least playing his role.

I think he struggled with a first pass. I think his foot speed's questionable and i if if you're as tough as we were led to believe that you were we haven't seen any of it influence an exhibition game to earn your job yeah i will say like you know the risk of sounding like a neanderthal you have such an opportunity in preseason sometimes. I always thought with, like, Nick Ritchie, when he was struggling here, like, did he fight one person?

Just run somebody into the glass. Just, like, you know, something that's a little whatever. And, like, Benoit's probably the same boat where... You saw that kid take the run at Mark Stone, like, early in the preseason, and Mark Stone grabbed... Who did he grab? Brant Clark.

Oh, Brant Clark, like, he was going to pee his pants. I've never seen anyone more scared. But, like, that's your time. Take a run at somebody. Like, that used to be what preseason was. Right. Was the butchers fighting each other. Here's what I will do for your club if you employ me.

Yes. Yeah. And that's not even good. Culturally, it's probably bad. But I think it would get you noticed. Just saying. Well, this is something they probably addressed at the deadline, right? Like, they can get far enough. They can be good enough to head into the deadline

looking to make a trade for a d-man okay it again uh the haves and the have-nots will separate as early as american thanksgiving and then i think it's the the regroup on uh revisiting it then. I think it may be too late, to be honest with you. Things are happening earlier and earlier. If you think that you have a chance to change the makeup of your blue line somewhat, I'd prefer the Leafs do it early and not wait till March. So what do you think about this Nylander thing? Like, is he going to walk it to ufa do they have to trade him like tree living has said he won't do what he did

with good row again and it's happening well kneelander says he's opening to discussing an extension that's great lots of talk that he'd be willing to talk all season long but which never understand why anyone says anything different. I can't talk for 10 minutes without making 80 sheets. Unavailable. The only talk Willie and his agent want right now is

you let us know and you're going to throw us more money. And they're not doing that right now. More than what? I got to believe that they offer well north of 10 million dollars a year you know i have real concerns about giving the offer or that's what they want that's what they want oh okay yes sorry no no i have been on the record saying that i would love to give neilander uh four year contract something where like I don't want him thinking, no matter what happens, I'm making $80 million.

Like, you want some motivation. Incentive. Some incentive there for him. He is at his best with that near him. Well, it's only an eight-year deal, right? So they're looking for eight? For sure. Yeah.

And they want it. Yeah, I guess it's time to interfere him. You know, if it's an eight-year deal and we are talking about $85 or $90 million, he's going to want $60 of it in signing bonus. Yeah, he's going to leave some cherries and make some tradable later. Yeah, and that's an advantage for the Leafs that they can do that that other clubs can't do. And that helps offset the high taxes i want him to get the 60 million living i want him to get that 60 up front so we can see the best instagram

stories next summer willie at all the all the spots so gun to your head is he a leaf next year Yes. I think he is too good. You just cannot let great players leave your organization. He is, in that Florida series, he was the only guy when they were down that made me feel like they could score a goal. He was their best forward, period. You are like every Leaf fan right now of Sammy's Rolodex that says, Core 4 stays and we'll win again this time. Yeah.

This time. By the way, I also want to keep Tyler Bertuzzi, and I also want to spend money and have an elite number one D-man. Cut. Just quickly on Tyler Bertuzzi. Is there a dustier look in the NHL than Tyler Bertuzzi? He looks like a dog you'd find. But like, what's the stick, the skates?

It's a greasy look. Can you read about his whole thing? He just says he's lazy. He says he hates taping sticks, so he doesn't. He just doesn't. How does he not slip out of his hand every play? His style is an atrocity. It's so bad.

It's like he found his brother's gear, like, from years ago. It's like when you go play drop-in with your buddy and you didn't bring your stuff. You're like, where did you get this equipment? It's awful. I do like him as a player. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I've not liked his training camp.

No. Okay? And I hope he's one of those guys that can flip a switch. You haven't liked it, eh? No. Shot one in the net last night. Yeah. Who assisted on it? Detroit. no okay and i hope he's one of those guys that can flip a switch you have a light today no shot one in the net last night yeah who assisted on it detroit yeah the flubber by whoever okay listen yeah i'm happy he's a leaf i think he can help and uh you know i've watched him we've all watched him long enough to know he's a good player. But he's played three games with 16 and 34. Yeah.

And you haven't been on. Yeah. He looks like. Come on. He looks like great Poupon. Michael Bunting. Like really good Bunting to me. Get some chemistry going.

No. Yeah. I think it's fair. Maybe we'll ask Doug McClain on the top of the hour. He goes to the net boys. Like he's better Bunting. Oh, he'll be fine. That leaves to the partner goal that ties the game in preseason.

His bunting's there. We talked about this being one of the best lines in the league. Should be. Should be the best. Show some flashes in an exhibition game. That's all. We haven't seen it yet. And maybe he's keeping his powder dry starting on Wednesday

against the Montreal Canadiens. Okay, we're going to take a quick break and we're back with Doug McClain on off the rails Friday on our first show on real Kipper and born after these messages.