Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: The Future Behind the Bench

Episode Date: December 22, 2025

Nick Kypreos and Sam McKee look back on the Toronto Maple Leafs' pair of losses over the weekend to the Nashville Predators and Dallas Stars. They discuss a better-looking effort on Sunday despite the loss, Craig Berube and Auston Matthews on different pages regarding the team's mentality, and the top six's struggles during the road trip. Then, they discuss Berube's hot seat, whether it's too late for the Leafs to benefit from a 'new coach bump,' how the fanbase would respond to a Peter DeBoer hiring, and what that could mean for Brad Treliving in the offseason. Finally, they chat about whether the Leafs should consider a Matthews trade in the summer and what the return could look like.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Come on in. It's the real Kipper and McKee show. We are live on Sportsnet 360 SportsF 590, The Fan and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. If you miss our show, can't catch it live. Just download it. Any chance you get, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube are your choices. This hour of Real Kippren Bourne brought to you by Bet365.

Jake the Snake Shultz, Derek Brandeo. No, Justin Bourne. See, he's smart. He's so dejected over the Leaf's weekend. Yeah. He said, I'm starting my holidays right now. So can you hear me right now? I can.

Okay. And can our audience hear me? Can somebody, I, my, my, my. thing has gone cut here. Sammy, you're good, but you're good. I can't hear anything in my headphones, so we're going to, you know, it's my big, it's my big chance on the big desk, but I can't hear anything.

I want you to relax, okay? You've dreamt. Drempt of this day. Drempt of the real Kippur and McKee Show. You're right. I have. Every day. Outside of the Jay's winning a World Series,

the Leafs winning a cup. This is the next big thing. The real Kipper and McKee Show. So we're going to get to some conversation about this weekend. But I have to admit something to you. Uh-oh. Am I going to be like a shrink for the next hour? Maybe, potentially.

I am feeling pretty down about the least, but I'm also feeling down about this next situation. So this weekend, spent some wonderful time with my family, with my parents, and with Allie's dad and her sister's home from in Montreal. We had a wonderful weekend. But my mom stayed over on Saturday night,

and she brought with her a beautiful, tin of cookies and all this stuff, this beautiful handwritten card for you. And you left it on the bus. You left it on the bus with the Columbus

Jersey. Borny wasn't going to get any of this because he didn't get to, he didn't come in today. He's on his way to New York. He's probably in New York by now. And so I set my alarm. I got a text for my mom this morning. Good morning. Like, make sure you take the cookies and the treats. And I said, no problem.

I set my alarm so that I It would go off. So I'd be like, oh, I got to bring the cookies. I end up coming in earlier because I had to do a little couple things, Christmas-related things, on my way into the office. Where are my cookies? And at, you know, about 1.30, my phone as I'm at, like, Bay Station starts going, be-da-ding, but-da-ding, my beloved mother, spent all this time cooking all these

cookies for you and Borny, and I forgot them at home, and she's going to absolutely kill me. So, if you're listening to Mom, I'm sorry, but I forgot the cookies. I forgot the cookies. You're far too young to be losing your marbles this early in your life. I know. It's bad. It's bad. It's a bad move by me.

I'm very embarrassed. I'm very embarrassed. How long would it take you to get home right now if you just left right now? I could carry 15 minutes. I would probably be back maybe in time for fan pregame. Maybe. Probably not, though. There's her story.

So I'm going to have to take them up to. I don't know what I'll do them. Mom, McKee. I apologize for your son. Thanks. And listen, it's just the effort that counts. Knowing somewhere out there, there's cookies that you baked for me. The worst part is I'm just going to eat them all.

Is enough. No, you're not. You're going to save them. You're going to bring them. Okay, I'll try. I'll try. All right, the Toronto Maple Leafs drop back-to-back games on the weekend. Nashville, 5-3, Dallas last night, 5-1, a game that we covered on Sportsnet, Ontario.

Tomorrow night, we wrap things up before the Christmas. break with a 4 p.m. start. Yeah. 3.30, I think, is pregame. Are you guys on that one? Is that a... Oh, no. Myself.

Oh, yeah. Carolyn Cameron and Elliot Friedman will carry it for Justin Bourne, who's family... In New York. In New York. Yeah. Visiting his family in New York.

In the meantime, you want to start with what we saw Saturday night, where we are big picture. Tell me, Mr. McKee, it's your platform today. I don't know. I would be lying to you, Kip, if I said I wasn't pretty dejected as a fan of this team. I just, you know, you don't really know.

I guess there was a part of me where over the past month or so I've been guarding against them coming back and saying, oh, it's over, it's over, it's over. But in the back of my mind, the back of my heart, thinking that they were actually going to find a way to pull themselves out of this and that they were maybe. going to get a little bit hot here and that they were going to maybe find a way to get themselves back into playoff contention but this weekend for me and i guess this road trip in general this little three road game road trip kind of flipped my perspective on what this team's going to look like at the end of the year like i know i know i'm not breaking news here they sit at one point

at a last in the eastern conference but i'm really starting to believe that there is no pull out of this like i'm sure there's a ton of lee fans listening that feel the exact same way, but this weekend really did flip things for me. Hey, hey, and everybody says that they played great last night. They played better last night. They still lost 5-1, whatever. Progress is only progress when you're getting points in the standings, and it really does feel like it's heading in the wrong direction permanently.

Just going into last night, too, to your point a little bit here, where they did play better. They actually played much better. The look was much better. We had mentioned that on air, and then we end up, you know, taking a bit of a beating. Oh, you guys in trouble? No, no. We took a beating a little bit on social media with people saying, like, why would you say that they had better looks?

And why did you say that, you know, they lost like 5-1? Yeah, and it's like fans don't even want to hear anything remotely close to even. What are you supposed to say? It's true, and I'm not offended, trust me. It doesn't bother me at all. But what it does tell me is that the fans don't care, that they look better, they had better chances, Austin touched the puck a lot more, they don't care, right?

I think it's like win or your garbage. I think if that game last night had have come in a normal leaf season where they're sitting in the second in the Atlantic Division and they won the game on Saturday night and they go in and they have that performance. You and I could come in here on Monday and have a pretty positive conversation about a way a lot of their players looked.

But when you put yourself into this situation, the time for moral victories, Kipp, is long gone. I mean, progress, process, whatever the hell word, you better start finding process in a hurry here or you're going to be in the lottery conversation. Anyways, I don't know which clip you want to start. with you want to go back to nashville let's go back to nashville too because i i touched a little bit on this and uh craig bruby talked about the team mentality and i i touched on it a little bit

in our pregame show so let's let's start there uh clip to kreg bruby on team mentality i don't know if it's difficult i said like you know that we we gave up a four and four go with a minute 20 to go in the second period um i don't you know there's no reason for that what i think that's a product Yeah, it is. It's mental, for sure. You know, we've got to get through it. We've got to get over that. We've got to make better decisions throughout the game. Okay, let's go to the captain's thoughts on team mentality. Clip two, Austin Matthews.

I mean, I think mentally we're fine. I thought tonight, I mean, as it is losing, you know, like I said, I thought the process was better. had good energy all night. And even though you're leaving the rank, you know, upset, you know, not getting, not going out with any points in tonight's game. I mean, I think just the process that we had throughout something that we can take and move forward with some of the good things that we did do and continue to channel that

and just be better throughout full 60 minutes of doing those things. And that's probably the thing that stood out to me the most was that, okay, the head coach says it's a mental thing and the other and your best player says it's not a mental thing we're we're fine there so can you start addressing whatever issues you think you have if you're not looking we do not agree at the same issues that I think is I mean what's the the the word of the year been for the least this connected correct and it feels like there is a disconnect from the front office to the head coach to the head coach to the captain to the captain to his players like you can listen to those clips i went through like nick robertson

was talking about how the team mentality is not great joshua i'm not joshua sorry waw was talking about how the team mentality isn't great oh el all these guys are addressing how the team mentality is not great and i'm not sure if matthews is just saying that because he thinks he's the captain and he needs to put this brave face on to project out that we're okay and that we're fine but at some point i think you need to look inward at your team and talk to the media and be a little bit honest with us with the fans because i think it's disingenuous and i think it breaks trust between the captain of your favorite hockey team and the fans if you're going out there and you're saying mentally we're fine because the fan base isn't fine the fan base is

mentally fine. I'm telling you, they can't stand this. And I can't remember a team with so much talent that people just don't like Kipper. If they would have lost more games like they did last night,

he'd have a bigger cushion to say mentally we're okay. 100%. But that's the issue is that they have not looked like that. And that's as we said last night And I don't know where you sit on on what Dallas presented I got to be I got to think that if if we talk to a number of people

that cover the Dallas stars on a nightly basis probably said that might have been one of their worst games of the year I don't know but I know Ranting and didn't look like Ranting and a superstar and why John who has more power play goals than the entire Toronto Maple Leaf team didn't look great finishing on any power play. It's not the best stat I've ever heard. Right.

But they at least looked like they gave a much better effort. Yeah. They were more engaged. And with a little bit of luck, maybe a cold ottinger, they might have found a way to squeeze a point or two out of that game.

Yeah. I think that's true. and you look at those two teams between the you measure the desperation meter between those two teams I mean the Leafs have their season hanging in the balance here they're at the bottom of the standings and they're going in there in the second half of a back-to-back knowing they got to get a win here before Christmas to potentially save the coach's job and then you look at Dallas who is the second best team in the league and is one game away from their Christmas break just at home on a Sunday night just felt like the the amount of desperation between the two teams but

Yeah, maybe the least found a way to win that game. Even if they do, Kip, they're still the second last. Like, it's not like it would have changed a ton. We'd feel a little better doing a show today, but they've dug themselves such a huge hole. Ultimately, it's not going to matter even if they do win that game. Let's get Craig Ruby's thoughts on his overview of the game last night in Dallas. Clip.

Well, yeah, I mean, we played well. I mean, I think for through two periods, and I really liked our game. Lots of chances and opportunities, you know, it's not going in right now. It eventually, you know, wears on you throughout the game, right? Third period, they got that third goal. It was kind of set us back pretty good enough, that goal.

So, you know, you're talking about Matthews and the disconnect between the coach and the coach and the captain, and the team like just the stars in general or the highest i guess they are the the highest paid people on this team and the the people who are supposed to really carry this team offensively like that trip if you're looking at a few guys that are maybe not inspired to play for their head coach or inspired to play in general i mean i put the stats on your sheet there they're ugly it's ugly and look at that saturday night go ahead read them out if you want or i can read them yeah Matthews, Nealander, Nyes, Tavares, Max Domi, who was scratched one game.

Yeah. All collectively. Well, Tavares had a ricochet. Yeah. One point. Yeah. One goal. His goal.

Everybody else goose eggs. And then they're collectively. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Matthews minus seven. Neelander minus seven. That's Saturday night.

So if you gave me. odds of a three game stretch like that where they all get goose eggs like how the hell are you going to win i mean look at yeah no you're o for three look at saturday night and it's the third set the end of the second period they're up to one and matthews carries the puck four on four right into the offensive zone and just turns into the slot with two guys on him turns a puck over goes down to your end of the net just get that puck in deep you know it's the end of a period live to fight another day. Goals at the end of periods

always kill you. Maybe a wall soft. You probably should have had that one. And then you go to this third period. You get Morgan Riley, who's supposed to be another one of your leaders, high-paid guy, gets walked by Evangelista, right? Yeah.

And then with however much time left in the third period, where they have the empty net, it's three-two for the predators. And William Neelander just skates them. puck up and just turns it right over to a guy that go down, they shoot it and they're out in the empty net. Like that's just a microcosm for what's killed them on this trip and what might kill the season.

Like they just haven't got enough from these guys in the last however long. It's tough. Yeah, we may look back at this particular stretch as the first sign of, like, this, that's where they lost it. Yes. That's where it truly was lost. Yeah. So I don't know.

I don't know. Like, where are you on the Craig-Brube situation? Because that's clearly the number one thing that everyone's talking about. No question in my mind that, and we've seen it everywhere. Yeah. Including ESPN's cover, I think, is, you know, Burubi on the hot seat. So everybody feels it.

Yes. Everybody knows it. And there's no question behind the scenes. They've got, they're contemplating a lot of things, including letting him go and or keeping him. And what are the options? And there's so many layers and dynamics to this decision on, first of all, truly, do you believe that this is a coaching issue or is this a player issue, a player personnel issue?

And more importantly, like, where does that ultimate decision lie? Because there's a CEO and Keith Pelley, there's a general manager and Brad Trey. you're living and where do the where do the two of them come together on Craig Brube's future i mean that's i have no idea that's i mean i i you would know better than me in terms of who's actually going to be the one that makes this decision and the board and all the different people that have to go together to make a decision like that yeah i got news for you there's there's no more bored anymore okay right okay there's just just paly uh no there's just an owner oh And he's upstairs.

Oh, he's upstairs. Hi. Say hi to him. Hi, Ed. That's the board. That's the board. Yeah. And outside of that, he's got a CEO and Keith Pelly.

You know, Keith has been very vocal earlier in the season, how much he believes in Bradtree Living, believes in Craig Bruby. These two are the guys. He's spoken positively over the culture and their knowledge. And they're the ones that, you know, hopefully take them to the promised land, take the city to the promised land. Yeah. Keith has gone on record saying it's... Well, he's a rider cup guy, so it may take them to the golf course, the promised land. Oh, he's spoken of their time is now.

Yeah. He has spoken to go time. And now you got to be in a position where you think, no, that's not the case anymore. Or yes, it's the case. and we better do something to kind of rattle this thing back into place. So that's where they're at right now. These are the decisions that they're making right now. Is it a coaching thing or is it we just need to be patient here

and squeeze more out of these players? So the follow-up I have for you, is it too late to get the, bounce that you're looking for it gives you how many games left sammy 47 yeah with one of the hardest remaining schedule i know i know and that's again i mean i'm i you have to just throw back to brad tree living and keith pelly now yeah 47 games to go what's realistic what's not realistic out of 47 do we need 30 wins 32 wins feels like that So if we can get hot, we need a, I think the year that the St. Louis Blues won the Stanley Cup. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they sucked up until like the second week in January.

They were like a 500 team. Yeah, then they got stupid hot. And they got hot, but a lot of things have to go right. Bennington came out of nowhere. It's not like the Leafs have a goaltending issue right now. it's the least of their worries. Yeah. So do they sit there and go, yeah,

there's a lot of games left to go here. We can salvage something. Is it salvageable? Yes. And I'm not sure it is. And I'm as much, I mean, I mean, every day I get people in my mentions talking about it's the coach, it's the player. Everybody seems to be completely split on what the big issue is,

which is means, which you know what that probably means, Kip, is that you have a lot of. issues that each person is able to pinpoint something different that's wrong with this thing but and we talked about it on Friday but like I am a little bit willing to have the conversation that this conversation that this core or this roster regardless of who's behind the bench isn't necessarily good enough like I mean it just it's it's it's been whittled away at and whittled away at and you lose the final death blow last year potentially of losing Marner to the Vegas Golden Knights

that maybe this group isn't big enough and you start to have to have bigger conversations. But before you have that convo, I feel like you have to try to do something this season and the natural thing, I guess, is the coaching staff. But I don't know. I don't know if it's going to work and it's a huge swing to make

if you're not sure it's going to work. How big of a swing do you have to make if you go down that path you have the option of even changing Mark Savard who's we all believe is a big part of the power play for sure and there's I would say though like who they just hired more unlikely that they're going to change him

when they just brought him on this year yeah there's Craig Bruby of course and then there's okay if if we do change one of these guys like who's coming in here Yeah, I don't know. Right? Like, Peter DeBore is now the flavor of the week, isn't he? Oh, I mean, it's the hottest thing to talk about.

Everyone wants Peter DeBore. Peter DeBore is the, I mean, they just, everyone assumes that if you let Craig Brubet go, Peter DeBore is going to be on the next flight, Toronto, and he's going to be behind the bench when they start back up on the 27th of December. Like, everyone just feels like they've figured that it, which seems like a long show. to me. Do you think if that happened, the reaction would be from the fans, let's go, and now we're going to write this ship?

I'm not sure to your point you made earlier is, are you absolutely convinced that that's what's needed to jolt this particular roster? Because I'm not there. I do think that with the fan base, it may be a bit of a wake-up call that at least the people who are in charge are acknowledging that what they've been shown for however long this season isn't good enough

and isn't acceptable in this competitive window that they're supposed to be a Stanley Cup contender. Like at least it would show the fan base that they're willing to make a drastic move to improve the product that they're watching. And maybe you get a momentary bounce where the fans are excited again and maybe you start selling a few more tickets or whatever,

and people are like, hey, maybe we'll be good again. But that only lasts if they start to get good, Kip. Like, it's not, if you fire the coach and you bring them to bore and they still suck, nobody's going to be like, well, at least we've got a different coach.

People are still going to be pissed, right? Like, it's not, it's, you, the coach firing has to come with great results to get the fan base back in, I think. Right? Yeah. I think you have to have a real clear idea of what a coaching change would mean, in particular to Austin and Willie.

And it's such a dangerous game now to go back. And this is, it's dangerous in general to put too much stock into your star players, but it does happen and it's happened in almost any era that it's just a natural thing for a general manager or coach to lean on his best players for thoughts and ideas on anything that has to do with the team i'm just pulling up that the thing that borne sent us with the amount of coaches for certain teams if i'm quickly yes and like uh just quickly pulling it up here like the leaps are in the bottom half far in the bottom half of amount of coaches since the matthews era started right like there's only one uh one

one, two, three, four, five teams behind them in terms of teams that have had amount of coaches. So it's not like it would be it wouldn't be like they've done this a hundred times, but it's still a huge move to make. But I think what you've seen

from specifically Nylander, or I mean, what is this now, 11 games, Kippen without a goal? He's a guy that you're spent using however much percentage of your cap here. And he's just, he hasn't. Is he a by product of just getting

you know I don't know if the words picked on or centered to a lot of criticism that we've seen on the bench yeah in his direction more so than anyone else

is that got anything to play here I think he maybe's a guy that's just is he tired of I think he's just frustrated and I think he's lacking I mean, do we have this clip from him from last night. Derek, if you've got the William Nealander clip, clip one, please, from Willie.

Like, with losing, I don't know if I felt like this before. I had a stretch like this. I'm not sure. I don't feel like I've had that in the NHL at least. Yeah, like. Never felt like this before. I mean, he's always Mr. Cool.

I mean, he usually takes that tone. when he's talking, when he's in a positive light, so it's not like he's really up or down, but you usually never hear anything like that from him. It's been 11 straight games without a goal, like I said. I mean, there's been multiple nights throughout this where it looks like a guy that's caught in between what he's trying to. Is that what you see, like a guy that's being told to be more defensively responsible?

He doesn't get a breakaway ever anymore, or it's just not having the shield of Marner here anymore where... This is, again, where... Feels like he's caught in between two things. I've never been one to say that players quit on their coach. Quitting, sometimes people just think it's about not trying hard enough. But it's quitting on a coach to me means you stop believing in the message. And what he sees and what I see on how to win are two different things.

And again, that has to be crystal clear to Brad Tree Living. or Keith Pelly moving forward that if that's the case then you need to remove Craig Barubi. There's nothing there anymore for the players to hang their hat on with a head coach that they've stopped believing in his message.

So if you're there, then you're better off just putting a little on behind the bench than you are keeping Craig Barubi and then it's then it's maybe no gain but maybe you refresh an attitude out of Willie Nealander and Austin Matthews. If you believe that, and if you don't believe it, then you probably let him stay.

So do you, so you think that True Living would be having a conversation, like a one-on-one conversation with those guys to kind of see where they're at? I think he has to get a feel for sure. And it's, you don't have to necessarily tip your hat to them, that you're contemplating a coaching change. You don't come up, you don't go up to Austin Matthews if you're Brad Tree Living and go, hey, I'm thinking about getting rid of Craig Bruby,

what are your thoughts? You know, it's not that. It's, Austin, what's going on here, right? What is happening here? What are we not doing here? What's, where are we not helping you enough? What are you not getting out of us that help you be the player that you can be

and then just listen to him and just listen to his words. You know, I mean, it happens. Like New York missed the playoffs the year before we won the Stanley Cup. Roger Nielsen was there. You know, God rest his soul, Roger, but there's a lot of things

that didn't really line up for a guy like Mark Messier. Like Mark wanted to go head to head against the best players and Roger wanted to put Darren Turk got out against Merrill Lemieux. And Mess is like, no, I'm going up against the best. That's a disconnect. So if management or ownership or whoever's above, you know, at the time, if you're listening to your players, that's something to consider here.

That if he's not on the same page as the coach, and they don't believe in the same philosophy on how to beat the almighty Pittsburgh Penguins, then it ain't working. So, Austin, where are you, man? Where are you on the power play? Where are you on our breakouts? Where are you on the four check?

And why aren't we seeing second and third opportunities around the net? And why do you have no goals on rebounds or second and third broken? play chances. And then get a feel on whether or not you still have to make a coach change or not. So that's the way it generally can work is that you involve them. You bring them in. They're leaders.

Willie, tell us, Willie, what do you see out there? What are you not feeling? Right? And that's, you have to go to those guys. They're your bread and butter. They're your, there's supposed to be your heartbeat of the hockey club. So then the Lilan thing that we've mentioned here on Friday, you mentioned here again now,

that would be like going from the bad cop to good cop situation sort of thing in terms of just a different voice back there. Like he's not hiding anything. No. Like he's trying to, I mean, he was a head coach, I guess. He was a head coach. And that's one of the reasons why you brought him in

because he has NHL coaching experience. And, you know, whether or not you want to admit it or not, there's always the thing. thought that if if things get to a point who's who's there to pick up the pieces you have to think that way and lalon also was a a former head coach and he's got bench experience if anything ever happened to to baroubi whether or not it was from uh lack of success which we see now or you know a health issue whatever it is a guy can step in and do the job yeah yeah yeah okay right and yep and that's that's that's that's one scenario the other scenarios

you want to hit the home run now and go get Peter DeBoer? I just, I don't understand why, what is enticing about the Toronto job right now. That, like, I think maybe was you mentioned on Friday that this summer when you see what happens with, you know,

some offseason moves and whatever, like hiring, but coming into this right now with the temperature that's around this team and around this fan base and, you know, like there's articles being written about how they're not selling out anymore and like just the way the fans have a relationship there's a Luke Fox is writing articles about the fans relationship with the captain of the team and us talking about it every day and it just it feels like it's a very toxic situation right now

to step into and I you know he's going to coach he's going to be an assistant coach in the bench at the Olympics and that's a great experience that he's got coming up I just don't know maybe I'm totally wrong and it's still the Leafs and he wants to jump but it just doesn't feel like an appealing situation what do you do game time we'll take break him or I'll chime in on my Peter DeBoer thoughts. Okay. It's game time presented by Bet365. Visit the

app for the latest odds and see why it's ever ordinary at Bet365 must be 19 plus Ontario only please play responsibly as it's saying that there is a new version of the Bet365 app available as I try to pull it up. So why don't we do it after the break kipper? That was game time.

Instead of my Bet365. Visit the appellate and see why it's ever ordinary at Bet365 months 19 plus interior only please play responsible I print the bullet up and there's an update so like oh you're hilarious I can't remember the can't remember the Christmas food I can't can't remember my cookies can't do anything and now

now we got to work on an app for you oh my God we'll do it after the book we will we will more Sammy McKee screw ups after the break And my thoughts on Peter DeBoer, next hope, next coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs? I don't think so. Not right now. And I'll tell you why after the break. Everything you need to know about the Raptors and the biggest stories around the NBA.

Smith and Jones. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the real Kipper and Bourne show in the big seat. We're on Sammy McKee. Yeah. As a reminder, this hour of Real Kipper and Born, brought you by Bet365. Okay. Time for me to improve my read from last segment.

It's game time. It's set by Bet365. Visit the Afflatest Odds and C. Y. It's every ordinary at Bet365. It's 19 plus. And Terry only, please play responsibly. Phil Rivers back at it tonight, Kipper. the 45-year-old veteran made his first start since 2020.

Now he's back at it tonight against the San Francisco 49ers. This time at home, not that big of an underdog tonight, surprisingly, only plus 195 at home, the 49ers minus 240. And I'm just looking at the odds for any time touchdown scores. Christian McCaffrey, give me a Christian McCaffrey touchdown anytime minus 200. If he gets a touchdown tonight or a couple, I will make an appearance for my first ever appearance in the Sportsnet 590 of the fans

Fantasy Football League final. So I need 20 points out of McCaffrey and Kettle combined. And I'll make my... You'll cover. Yeah, you'll be fine. Seems too easy, but Dylan Brown is who I'm going up against. So first ever appearance, I'm usually a doormat, so I'm pretty excited about tonight.

And that was game time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for this audience and see why. It's every ordinary at Bet365. Mr. 19 plus a Terry only. Please play responsibly. Pete DeBoar. Okay. Pete DeBore

is a name that would intrigue me but the timing has to be there for me for sure and as you had mentioned that I said earlier that with

close to 50 games still on it's almost just as big of a gamble for Peter DeBore to come in now and take a chance on whether or not he can turn this thing around if he doesn't

they missed the playoffs you don't get the same jump as you would if you hired them next summer with that fresh feel that new attitude and it's not a good thing you know it's not a good thing to be in that position it's not a good position for keith pelly to be in a CEO now to be in a position where he's looking at this season being a failure he's got a break brand new head coach probably cost him in his company and Mr. Rogers, $25, $30 million. He was a five-year contract, right? I think he, got to be close to $5 million here. I think to entice him now, there would be the number one reason.

What would be his number one be reason to come here for now? DeBoar? Yeah. Money. The cash. Cashola. Right? The cashola.

Yeah. He's got everything. He's. wanted so far in his career he's got career wins he's got an impeccable record for game sevens except the game seven he'd ultimately want and that's to win a stanley cup i will say the game seven record behind the least bench would be one of the immovable object meets an unstoppable force situations of all time so it you have to just blow him away with the cash yeah now if it's the end of the season and the leaves have faded as much as people perceive them to be right now

you're you're stuck with a decision from keith pelly on on brad tree living yeah can can you can you fire brad tree living at the end of the year and keep pete de boar as a coach that's interesting so that in theory, if you were going to part ways with true living at the end of the year and bring in your fancy new hire, then he's going to just keep Pete DeBore as his coach as opposed to just wanting to bring in his own guy? I don't even worry about that. What do you worry about? I worry about the perception that Pete DeBore is interviewing for his general manager

and has a vital say on picking him. And maybe that's true, maybe that's not true. What do you mean? Like, Pete would have a big say in who the general manager is? Yes. Yeah. Would you have an issue with that? I don't like it.

No, okay. I don't like it. Okay. Because it screws up the pecking order. It screws up the hierarchy. And I believe in an owner. I believe in a president. I believe in a general manager.

And then I believe in the coach. Okay. And one has to answer to another. I don't like if Peter DeBoer came in right now and the perception was, and it could be true, it could be false. I could be sitting here saying Pete DeBoer doesn't want it. He doesn't want anything to do with picking,

but people will still sit there and say whether or not, you know, Pete has a big influence on who comes in as a general manager. And that's not a good thing because now you're into a, a Mike Babcock I make I make 50 million dollars I got a kid coming out of Sue St. Marie

how much respect am I showing him I'm more important than you are even though I'm just the coach and now you're the general manager and then you got a guy going I got to get this guy out of here boy that did get bad towards the end really bad I forgot about that guy really bad yeah they were at each other's throats towards

in of that relationship at each other's throats trust me it was just Babcock you know shushing him off like he was like you know somebody that mopped the floors or something I don't know so in the so then if you get to the end of this year and you don't make the playoffs your your inkling would be that Brad for Living may not survive that or he would no no no no I believe and I believe that Brad believes that he won't survive okay if they miss the playoffs so then you would hope that whoever your new general man that you bring in.

Could be a clean slate looking for a general manager and a coach. Wow. So maybe that general manager ends up just bringing in Pete DeBoer anyway. But he might not even make it there because Pete DeBoer is a pretty hot name and he's had an excellent. What do you say when he came on a show, six of the last seven conference finals or five of the last six? He's getting paid.

He doesn't have to jump into anything. Again, I don't know. Does Pete go, you know, give me Babcock money and I'll go anywhere? Here's a question that you probably can't answer, but I'm going to ask anyway. Do you think Trilliving and Pete? Pete DeBoer have spoken? I believe absolutely not. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. I don't believe that for a second. And I know there's a few things out there right now. But no. I do not believe that they've reached out to Pete DeBore. Okay. I just wanted to ask that.

Matthews. So one of the biggest things that I've been getting from Leef fans and Leaf fans really feel comfortable coming to me with stuff, whether it be mean or. not mean but the biggest thing that people are coming here is maybe this is too dark for three days before christmas but a lot of people saw what happened with quin hughes kip and the way it looked at the end with quin hughes in in vancouver yeah the body language and the american captain in a canadian market and all that stuff i mean i would say that the biggest

comment i get is a lot of trade matthews trade matthews trade matthews and i i would be lying to you if I told you that isn't a terrifying thought from a Leaf fan perspective and from my perspective at least there's a ton of them that would want to do that but do you think that is a conversation that they would ever have like as soon as this summer. Yes you do. 100%

yeah I do and again the no movement clause come into play so you have to you have to do this together this is just not your decision to do it you got go up to Austin and say

to Austin it's been a rough year and a half now, two years when you factor in what happened last year and the injury or the trip to Germany or whatever. It's been a tough two years. Like

he may be in a position where he's like he may go to the Leafs and say it's just time for a change. And I do believe that this is not something that can happen during this season. This is a summer decision.

And I don't also buy that this is Austin the rest of his career. He's just a 30 goal score and he's just going to completely fall off. I don't believe that other teams look at him going, this is the Austin Matthews I'm going to trade for. I don't want them. I don't want them.

I don't believe in that either. Okay. And I think that there's, there are places out there, and I don't know if you want to hold me to this, but I would love to hold you to something. Like, Austin Matthews to the L.A. Kings is the play. Okay. That's the move. That's the move. Okay, they got Kopitar leaving, and they need somebody.

Need to stop. And they kind of held out for, you know, the watch on McDavid. And I think if McDavid was L.A. King's choice in a couple of years or, you know, as early as next year to trade for him possibly, then Austin would fall right underneath that. Wow. So, and that's a, I mean, the next question that I would ask, and a lot of Lee fans would ask, would be, does he have the similar trade value that Quinn Hughes would? I think if you can't get four pieces for Austin,

you should get three quality ones for sure. Okay. Yeah. And I don't know what that means in terms of you need a center or iceman back. I don't know if they give up byfield, but it would be one of their top picks up the middle. I'd like to get a defenseman back. for sure you would think that it would be like players that are playing now

I think I'd like two players that could play now and a first round pick okay that's interesting yeah is there anything but like people got to understand like Quinn Hughes they're like oh my God he got traded before Christmas it was so quick when Jimmy Rutherford went on Hockey Night in Canada I think with Scott out if I'm not mistaken. I think it was after hours. After hours. I think if I'm not missed. Last season. I may be mistaken too.

Last season. And he said that Quinn Hughes would like to play with his brothers. That's the day that he started looking for a Quinn Hughes trade. Yeah. That's when you put the work in. It takes a long time. It takes a long time. So between now and what happens

in the summer, I think if the Leafs fade quietly this season you have to start thinking about assets around two players and that's willie and austin and austin i think would fetch you more than willie wow yeah well i guess the contract is a lot longer with willy and it's no it's a much bigger financial commitment it's center center ice yeah that's fair center ice uh and there's hard to find so we've been talked we started this hour talking about Perube in the relationship with the coach. I'm looking at Alex Ovechkin's Hockey DB page, Kipper. Yeah.

Do you know why I would be doing that? Because coaches changes for Ovi. When Dale Hunter, your boy, was Ovi's coach. Yeah. How bad were his numbers? It's 33 goals. Yeah. Mashed in between a 50 goal year and a 49 goal year.

Yeah. Is there anything like? Is there a way that, like, they just put Lawn back there and he starts firing into the net? Are you asking me if guys can respond to a coaching change? Yes, they can. Yeah, they can. I'm just looking for reasons why he just looks the way he does. But is he is Derek or whoever hell the coach is going to bring his quick twitch and his quick feet?

If I could answer that, Keith Pelly and Brad Tree Living could right now, they do it in a heartbeat. Yeah, you're right. You just don't know. Don't know. That's the $64,000 question. That's the crystal ball. That's the secret sauce. That's what they're paid to do.

Like, take your best guess, boys. Yeah. Right? Because there's a lot of hockey games to go here. And that's what you're paid for. That's the decision that needs to be made here. I would say that if there was ever going to be a potential

loss of Matthews trade. I'm not sure like I would I guess but who the hell are you going to trust to make that trade like I was going to

say that tree but you never make out great in these trades you never make out like the way you're going to like even the Canucks they perceived that they did really well

in that but who knows what that's going to look like three years down their own by the way I think they've won four in a row now they've started to get hot put themselves

Matthew Matthew could choke for Brad was he was in that position already once and he did okay you just didn't need to give that massive contract to Huberto

after, right? Like, I think weager and huberdumstant. He was completely cornered. Hamstrung. Austin should, there should be more freedom right now. Yeah. So, like I said, it takes a long time, but can't stop Brad Tree Living from calling up the L.A. Kings right now or Kenny Holland and going, okay, like, if we were to think about something

like this, what would we, what would you build it around? Ken? You need a centerman. Kopitar's done. You need a new guy And I've got one in the prime of his career Who's on an off season here But you're going to pay dearly for it

You interested? That starts today Yeah Doesn't mean it leaks Doesn't mean it gets out But that's the way it works Boy Well, Merry Christmas Leaf fans

We're just supposed to relax And share like Christmas thoughts Sammy on today That's a hard is hitting out we've done and whatever. Borny leaves.

There's no, the problem is we didn't have our positive Peter here today. It was just the two negative Nancy's getting.

Hey, where are you going after this? Oh, Peter's fine dining and Markham. What are you doing? What are you doing?

I'm ordering maybe the Peters cut or my dad's taking my family up to our old restaurant and Markham. That's fantastic. Have a great time.

Yeah. Have a great time. You've got to take the wife there. I will. I'd love to. All right. I'd love to.

Give me the Kipper discount them there. On behalf of everybody here at the Real Kippermborn show. Happy holidays. Merry Christmas. Be safe. And we'll catch up to you guys when, Sammy? December 29th or 28th. I don't know. I'm on vacation to this time. I'll see you later. Merry Christmas, everybody.