Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: The Retool Blueprint

Episode Date: April 2, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look ahead to the Leafs' matchup against Macklin Celebrini and the San Jose Sharks. Then, they discuss the Leafs' path to competitiveness in 2027, whether a rebuild is off the table in the offseason, William Nylander's comments about his willingness to stay through a retooling, and whether Craig Berube's fate is a foregone conclusion. Later, they dip into McKee's Midweek Mailbag to answer your questions and discuss who the Leafs would draft if they won the lottery, whether they should target a younger voice behind the bench, and Max Domi's comments on the culture. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Right back to work on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live. What happened to our music? It's not work. There it is. We're live on SportsNet 360. 590, the fan in Toronto. Streaming always on Sportsnet Plus.

Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. Nick Kippreos, Justin Borns. Sammy McKee, Jake the Snake Shultz, Derek Brandeale. So we kind of have a feeling. of off the rails Thursday because we aren't working tomorrow. Right. Good Friday.

We had it in our contracts. We didn't even know that we have to, we don't have to work on Good Friday. Sammy insisted. You're bailing out our wonderful boss, Fabs, who we were working, but the Jay's got right down. Don't tell anybody that.

Sammy, I told you. We look way more important if we said that it was, we don't work on that day. We've worked. And I say this as a good thing. We have worked every halt. Like outside of like Christmas Day, we've always worked holidays. We've worked the long weekends.

Well, mostly because the Leafs have been in the playoffs around that time. So we've had to. But yeah. Hell yeah. We finally wrote into our contract. We're not working a good Friday tomorrow, aka the Jay Scott Rainey. In the meantime, it'll feel like a Friday off the rails Thursday because Doug McLean will join us at the top of the hour.

Oh, good. We did get him. Yeah. That's good. He's been a busy boy. He is. He has a social life, which is cool. I don't know whether or not his pro trainer is, like, beating him up,

or if he's going to come in with a bad back or I have no idea. He's got to finish that up before he brings that beach body back to PEI, right? Absolutely. We got a game day. The Toronto Maple Leafs are in San Jose. Did you see what happened just before the tweets just before we got to air about the earthquake? No. Literally, as I got out of my car, I see Luke Fox tweeted,

that they were in a, the Leafs, serious earthquake last night at the hotel. Really? Do we have like a Richter scale number? I was working as we were talking here to try to get the clip of Ruby, but you might just have to do a narration. Here's Luke Fox tweet. He said, an earthquake rocked the Maple Leafs Hotel in San Jose last night. Stephen Lorenz, I thought the whole place was coming down.

Easton Cowan, pretty shocking. Craig Barubi, no clue. I was out. I was out. Didn't feel about it. No clue. I was out, didn't feel nothing. Really keeping them up at night.

I actually tweeted like everyone's like, oh, Barubi must be, you know, can't sleep these days. He's like, yeah, I'm fine. Nobody fell into a crater or anything. Everything's fine out there? That actually would have been like a perfect end of the leaf season. It's like they all fell in a sinkhole and they're not playing their esteem.

No, not at all. Not at all. Where do you want to pick up here? because you had an interesting article in Sportsnet.ca yesterday. The people love it, let me tell you. Well, tell us about it. All right. I wrote yesterday the basic premise,

though, we were told by Keith Pelley at his press conference that they want to retool. They don't want to rebuild. Today there's an article, Willie Neelander, says he's willing to be a part of a retool. Not a rebuild, but he'll be a part of a retool. So I thought about the question, can they be good?

Is it possible? Can they come back next year in a retool and be good? And yeah, the answer is yes. You would have to be insane to say anything. Well, listen, all you have to do is go back to them. Miracle Mets in what, 1969? Was that it, Sammy? You're a baseball guy.

Yeah, for sure. Right? Did you reference the miracle? Did you reference the Miracle Mets? For sure. Yeah. Okay, there you go. No.

Proof. What are you talking about? Me? The Mets. What are the Miracle Mets? Sammy, can you Google Mets? Sure. For our boy, Justin Boren.

For me, too. Am I, my... What happened? I mean, this is, unfortunately, the first thing that pops up on every Google search now is the AI overview, but I'll read the... The amazing match.

The miracle... What I call them that? Of course, they're amazing. Okay. Go ahead. The Miracle Mets refers to the 1969 New York Mets to achieve one of baseball's

greatest upsets by winning the World Series just two years after finishing near the bottom of the league. After seven losing seasons, the team finished 162, defeated the Braves in the NLCS, and beat the heavily favored Baltimore Orioles in five games to win the world series. There you go.

Just like the Miracle Mets. Yes. You know, the article in the case is one, that people who listen to the show regularly have heard me make many times. But I actually laid out like just if you were completely uncreative, you did nothing of these big things. No trading Morgan Ryan. Get rid of Max Domi, none of this stuff.

And you just made three UFA signs. They have tons of cats. half space. Just sign three guys. What does their roster look like? The roster I ended up with, I'm going to save you the whole thought process, but new coach to me can swing this team pretty significantly.

Like five wins different on a new coach to me. If you added basic players, Jaden Schwartz, Charlie Coyle, Darren Raddish, those are the three names that are UFAs this summer. What was the first? The three names are? Jaden Schwartz. And your Nyes Matthew Schwartz,

Cowan Tavar as Nealander, which is the line has been better than people know about Joshua Coyle Machelli, Lorenz Domi, Pizzetta. You got McCabe Raddish, Riley Tanev, OEL Carlo, Stollairs and Wall. I think it's a good team.

Is it a playoff team? Yeah. It's not a cup team. But it's getting there. Okay. But like to me I don't want to hear that. I don't want to hear that you're putting a band-aid on and

I want a team that is moving and trending towards a Stanley Cup. Not one that you just are scraping to get into the eighth spot so you could lose in the first round. And everybody who are your key guys. And I love like what the Pittsburgh Penguins are doing as a team. Like it's inspiring. It's good on Kyle Dubus.

But at the end of the day, your best players are Malkin, Crosby, Carlson, and LaTang, and their runways running out. They view that as a transition, though, right? To their next group of their next core. There is no next of them. Well, I mean, they have been undergoing this transition. They got 300 draft picks or something. So, yeah, like, it's not going to be perfect.

But here's the point with this. Yes. Is that this is the idiot version of what can happen. Yes. This is with absolutely zero creativity. There's not a trade involved. And there is the option to, my point is just to look, you add a mediocre right winger, a single D man, and a depth C.

And you're like, that's actually a pretty good team. It's fine for 12 months, maybe even to get you in the playoffs. But there's no sustainability in it at all. And that, I totally agree with. And that's, but when they're doing this, they're doing a retool, whether you think they should or not. So we need to talk about what that looks like. Yeah.

And what that looks like, I agree from there is how do you then fill in around this idiot version of mine and get younger, get faster, have picks, have some of that on the way? I do think Easton Cowan's going to be a hockey player next year. And I think Nyes will be better too. So you mentioned the pushback to what you wrote. Yes. And I find the pushback in itself fascinating. Because I've mentioned this before in the show. And I think, you know, we've talked about it.

But people were so ready to turn on this version of the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's been a complicated relationship with the early playoff exits and the promises that you thought they had with going deep and play. And all these things that you thought and some of the postgame stuff and we had good looks and all this stuff. So there's this fractured relationship to begin with. So everybody has already made up their mind on them and they turned on them quickly. Yep. I think a lot of people are not seeing what you're seeing because they don't want to see it. Totally.

people don't want to see it because there is zero evidence to look back on that this group can do it and it's like we're talking about oh retooling retooling I mean the year ago they had 108 points

for sure but like there's I mean they didn't get over that they ultimately didn't get over the hump and I'm not even totally against what you're saying here but I'm just saying the reason for the pushback is because people believe even if they get in the playoffs totally

they're gonna choke like they always did they're not gonna choke they're just not going to choke they're just not good enough, Sam. Well, the group's not good enough. Sure. And listen, it's changed from early times where we thought they were good enough

and they choked to now where it's like maybe they were never good enough in the first place. But the conversation's clearly changed. So let me ask you something here. Just in your opinion, because everybody's throwing out retool rebuild. Uh-huh.

What is the cut line for you between retool and rebuild because if you come back with Morgan Riley, John Tavaris, Willie Nealander, and John, or I'm sorry, Austin, then okay, where you have Nyes

and where you have Eastern Cow and I get that too. But like, when is it a retool? Who needs to leave where it's, oh, that's a rebuild, but this is a retool? think it's it's austin and willie like if those guys are gone you're rebuilding if they're still here you're building around what you know they are calling foundational pieces so with brad they retooled right yeah yeah no certainly did not that wasn't a retool when you have to go get mchelli and was it's a retool yeah that was a retool with the DNA yes so i think to sammy's point

they watched it 12 months ago. Yeah. And they're going to watch it again. And what you are essentially doing now is doubling and tripling down on John Tavaris and Matthews and Marner. And we'll see where Morgan lies in all of this. But the pushback to that, if I may, is that just because Brad Trillivin didn't do a good job doesn't mean the next person is going to do a bad job too. Right. Right.

Like that's the whole reason that you bring someone in to like, change it is because you believe like there was a call like we had free John yesterday what is the change what is the significant change getting Machelli out getting well I don't know what it is right gonna be the guy running the team well tell me what you think it could be I'm saying just adding a couple of decent players you're not that far away free each came on our show yesterday you know anyways but I just it's not for me to sit here and pour over the free agent list and pour over guys that are undervalued on

other teams or whatever but I just think it takes some creativity when the Pellie sits up there and says, we're looking for data driven, blah, blah, blah, whatever he said, I think you're hoping that they put somebody in place that's going to have a little bit more creativity than the prior general manager is.

Like, I think the Pittsburgh thing that you're talking about, like what is Pittsburgh going to be? When they win their next cup, is it with Crosby, Malk, and whatever? Probably not. But they want to remain competitive and they want to take a shot.

This is a weird year. Anything could happen year like this. Like, who knows what they do? But, you know, Anthony Mammie, is a risk that he took for 2.5 who's going to be worth 7.5? You know, like there's, you're kind of looking to find a couple of guys that are undervalued currently. So the flip side of that, and I'll push back to both of you guys here, I don't want

whoever they decide to hire, Keith Pelley decides to hire, I don't want it to be in the lane of them only saying that it has to be a retool. I want them to put the best hockey person in charge and what that hockey person thinks is the best course of action is what I like if they're going out there and they're asking you know they said all the people that are applying for the job or not applying but putting their name in the hat if the best names are saying

I think we should rebuild you have to trust that person's judgment no that's not happening but that's what terrifies that's not happening for a candidate who's saying what they're already written and it was abundantly clear here from Keith Pelley. Don't come in here and tell me that you're going to rebuild.

Don't tell me that you're going to go after the highest draft choice you can after you've paid your dues to Boston and Philly. That's what I hate. That part terrified. Like, you need, we're interviewing you now so you can sell us our idea. And I think what people who read my article are mad about. and there are many. And if those, they're many.

All they have to do is listen to our show and they're mad. What they're mad about is the idea that they're going to retool rather than rebuild. People say it's not going to work. The rest of the division is too good. They've passed you. We know this doesn't work.

You don't have assets to spend. They're mad at the idea of the retool. But I think, and I will say some smart people, in my opinion, read my article and reached out and said, it's crazy that people can't see that this can be a good team next year. Like, it's very clear to me that this can be a good team. Now, great, right.

Good. Right. But I think if you're good and you get to the trade deadline, you're going to have people going, boy, if we bought, you know, like there's a fantasy people have about just get in and you never know. That's the old hockey thing. And I think it's some transition years for sure as you try to build up. I think there's come September, there's 32,

teams with the if this and if that and a luck here and for sure everybody's doing that but i mean they have they have proven guys whether you like matthews as a cup contending center at his worst he's an 80 point you know very good defensive center like they have guys that they should just win hockey games when i tried to say that they should tank you and max spent half a segment telling me they just have too much talent to tank and then they can't have not enough talent to not tank Yeah, they're really caught that, Right. No man's land.

They're mushy middle right now. Right. And that's, that's kind of it. Right now they might finish sixth worst in the league. They're not that bad. So, yeah, I just, like, for example, if, I mean, everyone's talking about Doug Armstrong,

but Fridge kind of put cold water on that for me yesterday talking about some, like just the way he was wording it. But if Keith Pelly called Doug Armstrong, what was the name of the ownership guy in for Stilman? Stillman. And for some reason, Tom, Tom Stillman. And for some reason, Tom Stillman was like, all right, you can go. He has this huge change of heart.

And him and Pelly sit down and I have a conversation. And Doug Armstrong, who I trust is a really smart hockey guy, is like, hey, Keith, like my opinion is probably should start to tear the screws down to it. And he's like, no, I don't want you here because of that. Yeah. That is when it starts getting really scary for me. I will say, I think if you look at, you know, the financial health of the Toronto Maple Leafs over a five-year span.

You're better eating it for a couple years. And coming out the other side with hope and wins, look at the Blue Jays, you know, what they're able to do now, they're packing the barn for... I scored one against the Rockies yesterday. And how many people were there? Midday Rockies, 38,000 people came. You know, you make this money back when you're good.

So middling it is a big risk, but I know they don't want to bottom out. And I do think you got to try. for half a year next year. And if we're sitting here in December and the Leafs are 13th in the East or something, I'm going to be all over it. Like, okay, we tried, it didn't work.

The really scary parallel, and I don't know if I've brought this up to you guys in the show before. Probably have. We've talked about the Leafs for two hours every day for five years. But next year being the Canucks is the scary thing to me.

Yeah. Where, if you remember, they were trying to win this year. Yes. They were trying to be a good team this year. Yes, yes. And it's, It's having Quinn Hughes and Austin Matthews

and the exact same scenario in their contracts at the same time, like going into next year being like, we're a good team, we're going to win and compete and retool, and then just delaying the inevitable by four months where it's like you get to see that Austin Matthews actually isn't that good anymore

and he's actually washed up or whatever. There's just that part of it is scary too. The good part, though, I assume they're not getting a top five pick this year and so it'll be top 10 protected next year. Yeah. That's, you know. But then you lose the one the next year.

Yeah. If you don't give it up. Yeah. You just kick it down the road. Yeah. Which really. God, that's a bad. Which is even a worse thought because all you've got now is a 31-year-old Austin Matthews,

who now has to make a decision on resigning or not. Right. Yeah. And I think part of this is Matthewscentric too. You want to show him that you're a team trying to. to win. Willie just said he doesn't want to be a part of not that basically. All right, do we have any sound on that at all? By the way,

just for this analogy, Elias Pedersen, never bouncing back is scary. Totally. That it was like superstar, not a superstar. And everyone was like, well, hang on. And this year he's worse. He's the exact same right. All right. So that brings us up to Austin conversation

and a Willie conversation and where they sit. We did hear from Willie, right? Well, it was in the athletic. Okay. They wrote an article. C.J. wrote an article about it. Yeah. Him and Jonas Siegel. And he basically said that, I mean, I don't want to, you know, put words in his mouth.

But if there's going to be a rebuild, uh, uh, and if it's a retool, I'm here. So what do you make? No, no real surprise there, right? Like at the, at this point of all of their careers. I guess it's interesting because people tend to think that Willie's like, I do whatever I want kind of guy. And the fact that he'd be willing to hang in there for some not cup chasing years. But that is Willie saying I can do whatever I want.

I could decide to stay. I could decide to go. That is kind of Willie doing insane. I tend to think of a guy who does whatever he wants as being like, they're not awesome. I'm not here. See you later. But he kind of just said that a little bit.

He said if we're retooling, I'll be here. But if we're rebuilding, I'm not going to stick through a rebuild. Right. Which. I mean, we're into semantics with this stuff, which I hate. Right. And I don't know. I mean, I have my thoughts on, you know, the late great Borya saw me. Where he was one of the best young defensemen probably we've ever seen.

Still arguably the best defenseman ever, you know, for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Dad's favorite player. And went through a horrible stretch for the Toronto Maple Leafs, but just chose to stay. And you're saying the Leafs are bad or he was bad? All the above. No, no, the Leafs were awful. Yeah.

Boria still had great value. you, but I mean, it diminished as, you know, he went on the years, but Boria just loved it here. And he loved everything about Toronto. And of course, you know, right, right up until we lost him, loved Toronto and considered it,

his home away from Sweden. But there was also this comfort zone that he didn't want to leave. He just didn't want to go. And Willie could do the same thing. He could just say, win, don't win, don't really care, love it here, want to stay. The owner, of course, Ballard loved him, right? He had his issues with all the rest of them, including our great Daryl Sittler.

But this guy, this guy got to pick and choose whatever he wanted. And I don't know. Sometimes I think, is that going to be Willie? I got to tell you, it is mildly enraging that Toronto is this market that players fear and oh, it's the media market and all these negative things. Yet the players that want to come here love it so much they don't want to leave. Morgan Riley, I've heard the same thing. Very happy here.

No interest in leaving. Really likes Toronto. Very comfortable, you know, like these guys, they love it. So to me, that's just a separate Toronto aside that it can't really be both things. But yes, I understand your point. Comfort's not ideal. I mean, I'm kind of glad to hear Willie say not. be that guy that said, I love it here, I don't want to go.

If you don't think it's the right time for you to win a Stanley Cup, and that's your top priority, then I tip my hat to you. Yeah. I don't want people to stay here because they're so comfortable. Because they love Sugo. The meatballs are awesome. God, the chokeholds, Sugo has got in the leaves. The advertising, they have not.

But am I missing something? Have you seen the hats that they wear, the Sugo hats? No. Like an Italian restaurant? Have you been there? On Ozington, right? I don't think I have. It's at, I mean, it's on Bloor Street.

It's by Bloor lands down. Fantastic. Do they deliver? Well, they might now. Is anybody listening, please? Send us a meatball. Send us a meatball. We'll try it on air during our show.

It's been a while. These guys all wear the hats, they'll go. It's a. Okay. I don't want guys staying for meatballs. I don't even Swedes Where was that place we went with Gibby?

That was meatballs That was high end Modus That's our buddy Sammy You get one meatball Sammy if you're listening Send some meatballs over too We'll have a meatball off

The free hat hour But I had the exact same thought As you Kipper But a different reason for it If the least Listen like we're talking about A potential retool But where this is all headed

eventually is a rebuild. Like there's a couple more years here where saying the quiet part out loud. You know, you can, you can, Justin, yeah. Yeah. There might be enough to get back into the race. Right. But with Willie, him saying what he said to the athletic,

like he's got a full no move clause, right? But the fact that he's already said that, yeah, I'll say if we read tool, but if we're rebuilding, chow, it's like, okay, well, they actually be able to do, May, oh my God, may be able to extract some value for him if they do potentially decide to trade him because he's willing to go. Yeah. Like, look at Riley.

He hasn't wanted to go. They haven't been able to trade him. If there is some willingness from him, that makes me a little bit. I'm surprised to hear him say that right now. You were leading down the path there before of just saying they may have enough to be okay next year or whatever, but it's going to get to a rebuild. Eventually. And the same thing with Pittsburgh Penguins. I'm sorry, but like, it would be.

be great if, you know, your best players weren't late 30s. Well, and everyone talks about, listen, I, I don't think you're wrong. I don't know for sure what, you know, if you can bridge the transition and make the gap years shorter, so you have a good year while you draft a whole bunch and all that, but like Boston everyone references, Boston's no good. But two years is of no kind of draft well. Like you got to, you got to put that on the side. You're going to have to do this without that.

And Montreal didn't have to start with their first two years without like blue chip prospects, Buffalo, all the teams that Pelly talked about that passed them this year, all built up their stock over the years. Well, by being terrible forever, Kip, on almost every case. I know. So the Leafs weren't terrible forever, but they gave those picks away. Yes. So it's, they might as well have been.

it doesn't matter how you gave them away. Listen, I just think that those teams are, what you're trying to do is you're trying to build in this transition behind the, you know, and trying to shorten the gaps. You're not nine years at a playoffs. Pittsburgh may have a rebuild, but it's going to be shorter because they're doing it

as we're watching them make playoffs. They have a billion pick. I know, I know. And they've got assets and you can flip them over and you can turn it into a 25 or 26 year old. And they're in better position, no question. The leaves are at the front of it, and I hear what you're saying. Okay, let's go to Craig Barrowby for a Kipper's Clipper on how quickly they can get back to being good.

This is from yesterday. Clip two? Yeah, no, of course, I believe that because I've seen it. Now, it's been a down year, and we all know that, and we had to be better, and we weren't. We didn't, there's, you know, different things. But these foundational players have done it for a while here. So there's no reason they can't keep doing it. They need support.

100% they need support. The team needs to play as a unit and a team. It's not just all on them. And that's everybody, Goldies, everybody coaches. So that's what makes a go. I did Bunk show yesterday. And his point was just the frustrating part is saying that those guys need support. Because for years it's been got to fill in around the core, give them support,

the core filling in it, you know, help them, get them help. Rather than eventually just being like you guys got to figure it out. But just how does that happen here without any type of support coming from the Marleys or draft capital? How can they do that? Are you going to take another crack out of finding a Machelli for a third or fourth rounder? Like are you starting to all summer, you got to throw darts up and play moneyball? Yeah. You know, I think the point you're getting at is that you don't think there is a way to do it.

I think it's really tough. Yeah. Really tough. Yeah. And this isn't a knock against Doug Armstrong or some unknown next superstar. are the cards are stacked against you, the odds. Like, give it a try. You know, give it a try.

But it's going to be tough. Yeah, it is. Tough game, tough thing. You know, 10 years of trying and fail. And that's why they're going to pay them millions and millions of dollars to hire the right person to come in and trying to figure it out, I guess. I don't know. The only other add-on I want to make to this is that people are talking about the Atlantic,

like it's the AL East in baseball. And I'm not sure that it is. Montreal is awesome. I think Montreal is going to be very good. I'm not as old on literally every other team. Ottawa, yes, I really like, but they got to figure out the goaltending thing. But like, there's question marks up and down the Atlantic.

Florida just going to bounce back. I don't know. Is Detroit still on a playoff team? Not really impressed with Buffalo's defense? I really am impressed with Buffalo's defense. I'm not impressed with their forwards at all. So, you know, yeah, they're better than the Leaf. for sure.

I don't think they're unbeatable. Yeah, I'm a little bit. I think it's a really in and out division and lots of teams. I mean, look at it this year. Florida and Toronto, both out of there. I don't know. It's a pretty tough division, but I...

It's good. It's a good division. No doubt about it. I'm just saying it's not... I don't think it's getting overhyped. Let's have a Craig Bruby conversation here for a second. So Keith Pelly makes the decision on firing Brad Tree Living, but he leaves the decision on Craig Bureuby to his future hire. Does that surprise you at all?

Well, I guess no, just like I, what's the point now? You're not trying to win games anyway, get through the season and sort it out. Are you a believer that it's inevitable? They're going to let Craig Bribie go? Well, I feel like you're asking this because now you're not. I don't know where I am on that, but my gut feeling is that they really like Craig. And I think they're rooting for him.

But to Keith's point, I'm not going to make that decision. I think he would have been gone already if they just, if there wasn't something there that, Maybe they felt like maybe there's a way that he could stay. Well, I think, you know, there's two things is that Keith went up there the other day and he said, I'm not going to decide who's playing left wing. And that is a hockey decision. Is the coach coaching well?

You know, is the structure, watching structure and buy-in for a hockey team is a very expert thing. It's tough to do unless you really know, it's tough to see it. So for him to come in and do it, I think would be telling you who's going to play left-wing. So this makes sense to me. Let's someone who knows make the call. He doesn't have to do it. I think it makes sense. But if you think here's the thing,

he needs. I don't think it's 100% that he's gone, but there's also a part of me that says that the easiest way to retool is to get a new coach too. Well, that's, I am so all over that, not because I think Ruby's bad dude or anything. No, because it just needs. change.

The easiest thing to do, change one guy where there's no salary cap and see if someone else can, you did get the impression at times that the most important people on the team didn't fully buy in to what he was selling. Oh, you mean when the guy went up to him with his ear, his hand to his ear after he shot a puck in and practiced? There were moments like that, you know, and it's like, if those guys don't follow what the coach says, the guy's below him aren't going to, and then no one's listening. So if we're worried that no one's listening.

Let's let's play a clip here. on coaching through this season. Clip four, please. It's a little longer one. What do you enjoy about the process, even when you're in this situation, the coaching of it, like what do you find the joy

down the stretch like this for you as a coach? Yeah, well, it's what I like to do. Obviously, I love doing it. And, you know, it's been my life. So whether we're in the playoffs, out of the playoffs, I get it, and there's all there's uncertainty. I just, I mean, this is what I do,

and I come to the rink with the same attitude. That's the truth. I come with the same attitude every day. And I coach them the same way. What allows you to do that? Like, other people might get down? No, I mean, you know, I'm down, lost a friend and a GM, you know, like I told you guys that, that bothers me. But I know that's a business and that's the way it goes. But like I said, I've always felt very fortunate to be in the NHL and be part of the NHL, from a player to a coach. coach all that and I just don't take it for granted I just don't I'm I know I'm 60 but like I said I'm I'm a lucky guy to be part of it that a great run I can't believe his consistency through this truly like what

Luke asked him to me is when he when I was listening to the scrum after Mark masters asked him like how do you and I was actually thinking it halfway through his answer like how do you stay this I guess maybe that's what the money is for or whatever. And, like, that's why you're paid a lot to be a coach. Just say he's a pro. But he is a pro. Like, it's insane. This is.

He's a pro. It's the center of the hockey universe. The team is melting around him. The coach is five. Sleep is worth. And he's just like, yep, I like to coach and I'm a coach. It's just like, that's insane to have that composure. It is.

There's also this element of me. I don't know if you saw this, but like, one of those tech founder, CEO who guys recently did an interview and he said, like, I just do zero introspection. I just plow it forward. I don't think about it. I go to work and I just do, I never do any introspection, which for me is super unhealthy.

But I think that's Barubi. He comes to work and he's just like, I don't sit here and think about who I am or what I've done. We just show up. We try to win the next game. Let's get to battle. It is, though. It is that lunch pale,

three and a half, fourth line mentality. Yeah. Like, I can't change yesterday. I'm telling you, I'm kind of the same way. I am kind of the same way. And the ones that, you know, I didn't have the long. longevity of Barubi or

Domi or Rob Ray those guys did it for almost 20 years for God's sakes it's insane like I'm like I'm broken oh yeah I mean 12 years later you know trying this I'm done those guys just

had those horse blinders on that you know buildings could be falling around them even an earthquake in San Jose and he's the one guy I can guarantee you could sleep through it. And he got a almost decapitated by a gym machine and was like, yep, I'll coach tonight.

He didn't try to hide it. He's just like, yeah, my head's falling off. Tonight, the four check's going to be a one-two. This guy's been through it. Fast and furious stand out. They're going faster now. He's just got this, I don't know, ability to just carry on. Anything else from our clips?

We'll go mailbag? I got a bunch of questions. Are we going to break? Yeah, let's go to break. All right, we go to break. It is 435. And when we return, Sammy's mailbag is back. We went a day later.

A day later for the mailbag, a day earlier for off the rails. And a day earlier for Doug McLean at the top of the hour. So plenty more from Real Kippenberg. Stick around. Hey, it's Blake Murphy. And I'm Matt Bonner. Join us weekday mornings at 11 as we break down all things Toronto Raptors. It's the Raptor show on Sportsnet 590 the fan.

and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back. Believe our edition of our program, Nick Caprios, Justin Borence, Sammy McKee. Before we get into the mailbag, do you have notifications back on your phone? I don't.

Okay. Because it's in setting. I think I accidentally shut it off. I'm not even sure how to turn it back on. I'll fix it point. But we now have two separate group chats where me and born here, We're like high school boys trying to give their girlfriends a bunch.

Like sending it in two separate a WhatsApp and I message. We're just, we're twisting. Not going on the door at home. Twist it in the wind over here, Kipi. I'm telling you, I think there's no more room for water in my sponge right now. We'll get squeezing. Okay. So this is one that kind of stuck in the crawley fans at from the press.

Well, actually it wasn't even from the press. conference, it was from after, where he mentioned, we had a bunch of different ones about this, so I'll just kind of summarize about the tank and about how he said he wasn't willing for them to tank, there won't be tanking or whatever he said. We didn't talk about that after. What did you guys make of that? Was that a guy that's just like, I can't say that we're going to take? As the head of an organization, can you even admit you're trying to lose?

Like, wouldn't the NHL be furious if a team came out and said, yeah, we're trying to lose? Nobody would ever do that. Right? Well, right. That's why when people, like, I can't believe Peli would say that. It's like, of course he said that. I don't think you can claim you're trying to lose. Yeah, correct.

I'm with you 100% on that. Yeah, like, it's crazy that they think they're going to get any other response other than the one that he gave him. And, like, that's fine if I unclosed doors, they're like, you know, a little wink or whatever, but that's not how you. There's so many ways. The one thing that I had wished that they would have done is to, to tank without tanking.

And we've had this conversation before. Born and he only wrote about a January 30th. Right. Yeah. And just missed. Yes. You're right. That once you hit that cutoff line,

I think what they needed to do is just start whatever you think is as close as a player with the Marleys that looks like he could compete for a job. His name is Ryan Tverberg.

Just. Bring them up and just this is a great time to evaluate what we have in the organization. And that doesn't necessarily mean that you've got to fake injuries. But if a guy like Matthew Nyes was talking about not being 100%, hey, take the day off. We're going to evaluate this guy. We're going to give him 14 minutes tonight. So I just go to the hospital. You say take two weeks.

We're going to give. Also like, also like as a coach, like, Craig Bureuby, like, don't have Morgan Riley out there with Willie Neelander. Have them with the fourth line. Like, there's ways that you could kind of slow it down a little bit. And nobody would notice that. I'll Phil Myers back in the lineup. Right.

Villeneuve couldn't have got one look. No, like, there's just ways of splitting up the power play or having your second unit or your third unit out there for a few minutes. There's just ways that you could have. But, yeah, without coming out and saying, But the magic word would have been, we're reevaluating here. We're trying some things to see what we got. This one's from your pal Dan.

I was hesitant to read his, because his avatar was a London Knights logo, but I'll read it anyway. I think it's a good question. Do you think the draft lottery will have a material effect on the direction this team takes? And more importantly, should it? Oh, my God, yes. Massive, massive effect.

I mean, they're going to be one of seven or eight teams with the highest odds. of getting first or second overall, of course, that would matter a big deal. If you miss, then you're giving up a pick. Then that changes next year where your pick is protected, top 10, which helps. Boys, it just... I still watch Seth Jarvis on Carolina going, that guy should have been a leaf.

Yeah. Dube was panicked on that. Okay? Getting rid of that contract. Panicked. Yeah. Ridiculous. And knew he signed with that contract with that money, remember?

No. Andreas Johnson and Castorrae Capon. Is that right? And, you know, they did this with Sean. Monaghan, I want to say Calgary gave Montreal. Monaghan with a first to take Monaghan and then Montreal flipped

him for another first. Who made that trade? So if I'm looking at Seth Jarvis still wondering about him being a Leaf, what's Leaf Nation going to do watching the 6th or 7th overall pick with Boston? You mean the right-hand shot D-Man

that's going to be a hockey Hall of Famer? Canadian guy that plays the Bruins. Yeah. Canadian Chara. It's common voice. Right? It's common. Yeah. It is a very big pill to swallow this particular trade. The draft lottery means everything.

You know what scares me a little bit? Let's say they got the seventh highest odds getting first overall pick. They win the draft lottery. The top guy in the draft lottery is a small winger. Like, you have to take the best player. Oh, my God. This is so true. You have to take the,

but it's like exactly what you don't want the Leafs. Two is the dream spot. Well then you get another small winger. It's McKen and Stenberg. And then it's a whole run of Chase Reed and Verhoff and some of these bigger D and Mahaltrow is a center. But like if you finish first or second, would you pick the small winger who is the best player in the draft?

Probably. All I know is. But then you reach for. The guy that. The player that can help you the fastest will be, I think, one of the defensemen. Bearhoff or Chase Reed. Chase Reed. They were lining up, they were lining up to see him in London.

Okay. He's a stud. He is a stud. And I'm not suggesting that he can come in next year and have any type of effect like a Schaefer. Right. But they say he's physically talented enough that he can, he could, he could help as early as next year. McKenna at maybe a buck 55, a buck 60 soaking wet.

A buck 55, really? Buddy, he's a vanilla wafer. Yeah. Although, 155. So apparently he can do some damage. They're going to grade. But maybe we're looking at Jack Hughes, his first year in New Jersey. okay right

is he strong enough is he gets hurt he's like it might take it might take McKenna a little while here yeah and if he's going to be the most impactful guy from the draft you got to take him I am

loving a 25 30 minute right handed D yeah you can't it's a it's a it's a gutsy move man it's a gutsy move man it's a gutsy move Could you get another second or another first to move down two spots?

I wonder. Now we're talking. Just get to pick and worry about it later. This is from Bobby McMissal. Which is a great handle. Great handle. What do you think the odds of prying a younger coach out of college such as David Carl is? Is it possible to get him?

Would it be worth it for the Leafs? Oh, I know I'm getting older when I'm like, I just don't trust that, you know, I don't want the learning curve. I don't want to see the learn. It doesn't, it doesn't jive with what we heard in the press conference. Like where the Leafs are going, right? They want to be. There is a learning curve.

I know there's a learning curve, but I'm doing my due diligence. And even if it's DeBore or Doug Armstrong, I'm, I don't like a lot of the arrogance out of the Toronto Maple Leafs over the years. I don't. But I do buy into that. If you want to be a Toronto Maple Leaf, you'll be willing to wait for me to make my decision. And I'm going through it like a fine-tooth comb.

I'm not knee-jerkin my reaction because I think Nashville's going to beat me to it. Hey, Doug, if you want to go to Nashville, go. Go ahead. Go ahead. You want to go in New Jersey. You're 50-50 us or them. By the way, I'm not saying that David Carle wouldn't be awesome.

There's a very good chance he'd be awesome. I'm just saying where they're at, they're trying to retool them like, oh, just. Utah, great spot for him. Out of the spotlight. It's interesting that Frege mentioned Utah as a potential coach place earlier. Yeah, who did?

Oh, yeah, DeBoer. Oh, I had one here. Oh, yeah. From Trevor Shepard. As a lifetime lease fan, I've always been overly optimistic about everything. Wow, good for you.

To do with the Leafs. Sounds backwards. I want your guy's opinion on the first thing this front office needs to do to bring that optimism back. i.e. make a big trade, make a big signing. I know there's nothing. ETC, etc.

Really good question. What would be universal? You know what it is? Rebuilt. It's trade Morgan Riley. The first thing that'll get people going, yes, we all agree that that was the step this organization needed to take.

Yeah, you're probably right. I think rebuild is optimistic. I just think, it's just bringing, obviously we know a general manager is coming in a president, but it need to kind of clean the house a little bit too. There's been a lot of people there that have been there a long time. They've had their chance that goes far beyond Brad Tree Living.

I don't want to see people fired just for the sake of being fired. And, you know, I know people have family and lives, but you either get the job done or you don't. My first thing is clean out the things that haven't helped you win. That's a good sign too. Yeah, that's fair. You know, tree can't grow unless you prune it. I don't know if that's true, but you know the idea.

It helps it grow. That's what I mean. So this is from Thomas H. With a new structure in place that appears to be built around a retool, how much surgery do you guys think a new management team would have to do? My sense is over four and a half guys on the team right now moved off the team this offseason, but would love to hear guys' thoughts on who's probably gone.

We sort of alluded to this in their first segment, but what would be the number for you? You know, yeah, that's a pretty good number. You know what kills me is the Max Domi thing where he is the perfect culture guy for the Leafs. Like he, you know, with the goodest stuff and the way he was that game, you saw a quote today. People ask him about culture and I don't know if we actually have the quote. But basically, do we want to play it? Should we play it or is it too late?

I think we had time. Okay. Can you play Max Domi, Clop one, the culture of the team, please? Keith Pelley, yesterday mentioned both the culture was hit off this year. I'm just wondering what stands out. the team's culture is that an area that can be improved upon? I mean listen man at the other day everyone that's above us, Keith included

obviously they're our bosses and they have to make top decisions obviously that was a tough one for him to change the leadership and all that stuff but like I said what happens on the ice is is up to us what happens in that locker room is up to us and that's on us to be better so we're not going to get into what we're wrong with with you guys and quite frankly it's none of your business. It's our group's business and we'll keep it that way. We know we've got to do better and we will.

That's all you need to know about the culture in that room. That's that he just said it. He said when it's good, I'll tell you about it. When it sucks, it's none of your business. Yeah, I also like it. Go kick rocks. Don't worry about our culture. We have the culture.

We'll sort out the culture. Like, to me, Domi is the perfect culture guy, but he's a terrible fit hockey-wise in terms of where he fits in the line. Then you got guys who are great hockey. They never found a fit for him. No. You know, and that's, that's on them too. For sure.

They just. They never gave him a permanent home. It never gave him a permanent home, a role player. Like, are you a top three guy? Because you spend a lot of time being a top three guy. You're also a heavyweight. But you're also in the bottom six on many nights. And then it's like, it's not the biggest guy in the world.

So he doesn't want to do. that every night. Totally. You know, he's not his dad. Nope. And so he, the, the fit was bad there, but he was an awesome culture guy. And you got guys all up and down the lineup, you know, whether it's Matthews, Willie, or whoever, you're like, great hockey guys, culture's not quite there.

Like, it just, it's just been making a really, it doesn't fit. Bad cake, like you used to say. Yeah. So we're like, yeah, if it's four and a half guys, okay. Yeah. New ingredients. See if it tastes better. somebody take Domi? Would he go?

I think if you watch Leaves this year, you take Don't. I think there's value there. Absolutely. I don't necessarily want to get rid of him. I like what he represents. He's been the best Leaf over the past week, not just the fights, but he's saying the right things. He gets it. But I

I think he... Not to beat the crap out of somebody who wasn't trying to. That must be fun. But he also hockey-wise is a tough fit for this team. All right. Nice job on the mailbag there, Sammy Boy. Well, to our listeners. Thank you to all those on that sent those in. Appreciate it. Okay. Just getting warmed up here as we go national next.

Tons of fun stuff coming out of Ottawa. Oh, my God. What is going on? Sanis. Lock it up. Doug McLean. Next on our off the rails special edition Thursday. Don't go away.