Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: The Return of Matt Murray + Blue Line Shuffle

Episode Date: December 20, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look ahead to the Leafs' weekend doubleheader against the Buffalo Sabres and New York Islanders. They share what to expect from Matt Murray in his return to the NHL, Craig Berube's comments on Auston Matthews 'fighting through it' and the shuffled blue-line pairings. Later, The Buffalo News' Mike Harrington (32:45) discusses the Sabres' recent play through their 11-game losing streak, the fallout of Terry Pegula's team meeting, whether major changes are coming and players on the table for trade.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, here we go on this last Friday before NHL Christmas break. On the real Kipper and Bourne show, we are live on Sportsnet 590, the fans, Sportsnet 360, and Sportsnet Plus. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, back from the dead. Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, and Jake the Snake Schultz also along for the next two hours. Yes, sir. Sammy? Yeah? You got some color

back. Yeah. I'm one of these stupid headphones. I forgot my headphones. I look like DJ Sammy over here. Listen, I needed yesterday. Wasn't in great shape. Still not in perfect shape as you can probably hear, but here's what I'll say. First things, I can only imagine the things that were said about me yesterday.

I can only imagine. Were you listening? No, are you crazy? No, I didn't listen. Absolutely not. Are you nuts? I'm not that kind of guy. And also, my mom sent,

when she came down here like a month ago, she brought these specific treats. She's like, you got to bring these in to the guys. They were good. They were very good. High end. But if it wasn't for those treats, I might still be in bed. Thank you very much for the treats.

There you go. So, no IR, just really a maintenance day. Day to day. Just you cuddling with Louie yesterday. You have a little mulled wine and watching sports. No, all dark day. Well, we got a game day. We're squeezing the last few in the leafs again we'll play tomorrow night saturday night on hockey night in canada the new york

islanders in town and then we'll close it off and we will have our real kipper and born show on monday sam we will be five to seven correct oh yeah because yeah. Because of a 2 PM puck drop against Winnipeg. So still plenty more here on our show, but in the meantime, we'll get ready for the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Buffalo Sabres and JB, you and I will disappear at 6 PM and race over for 6.30 pregame show on Sportsnet Ontario, minus the ugly green sweatshirt you're wearing. Matt, I don't know if people know how big the Rogers,

the Sportsnet campus is here, but I'm wearing this, and I got to be on air in a suit with makeup on, 6.30. I don't even know what we're talking about. Maybe you got 25 minutes. By the time. Maybe about, you got 25 minutes. By the time we cross over, you got 25 minutes before we're live. But the last time you did this, you did wear a suit. I know, and I forgot today because I was just so pleased with myself for wearing my stupid sweatshirt.

Well, it is a great sweater. It's Scarborough Golf Club, which we love. Yeah, a beautiful place. But we just hate the green. It's awful. Yeah. I don't hate it. But that's the whole premise of ugly sweater, green, ugly,

time of year to wear that stuff. I think this is it. It's okay to be gaudy and kitschy and weird, right? I don't know. Okay, so is there anything ugly about the Toronto Maple Leafs lineup that they had to make major changes on the blue line? Do you want to start there? Matt Murray, of course, is in tonight.

That in itself is a big storyline. Where do you want to start there, ugly sweater? To me, that's the big story of the day. Matt Murray, it's been 600 and some days since he played a game for the toronto maple leafs um yeah i think that's pretty noteworthy kip this guy had double hip surgery and yeah making his return tonight sammy you got a few words before we go into uh kippers clippers i think it's pretty awesome that he's gotten back here kudos to him full credit and i have no idea how it's gonna go tonight i mean he's had a pretty good stretch in the AHL.

He's a professional goalie. He's won the cup a couple times. But you got to give the guy credit for going down to the AHL, not making much of a fuss by all accounts, playing a lot, and earning his way back here, and he gets to start tonight. Having played some sports and doing some TV, I know the time you're most nervous is not necessarily once

it all starts it's like now i bet matt murray right now you know maybe he's getting to the rink in the next half hour he's putting his suit on he's going to make his nhl return yeah i bet he's feeling some butterflies right now must be pretty excited let's go to craig bruby on his thoughts of getting matt murray back in tonight he's played well down there, and we thought we'd bring him up here and get him involved here tonight with, you know, the Stolarz injury. You know, veteran guy who's been around, and, you know, obviously the last couple of years

with injuries and things like that with him, but he's back to health, and, you know, he's playing well down there, and like I said, veteran guy. Kip, do you think his reputation his name in the nhl still carries a lot of weight like people still think of him as much better than some of these prospect guys like he'll to be and yeah i do and it probably led me to believe when i told you guys a while ago that there was interest in the leafs having uh matt murray come back in some capacity and then the thought that there'd be other interest around

the league that someone else would have snapped up matt murray that's when you dry heaved as i recall me too you too oh yeah now in, we have not been proven wrong yet. He's back. That's great. But. Yeah. Valid point. We'll see how he looks, how it feels moving forward.

It's been a long road. And it's just the double surgery on his hips was kind of the end of kind of a long, bad run. If we start him over after the surgery, it's looking and feeling okay now, once again, for him. But prior to that, that was an ugly kind of last few years for him, which really bottomed out when he got kicked to the curb by the Ottawa Senators, and then the Leafs picked him up. You feel for anyone who's a professional athlete who loses their status, role, all that,

because of something out of their control like injury, but that's what we're talking about when we talk about Stolarz and when we talk about Joseph Wall. Are these guys at risk of that? This guy has been on the other end of it. What's fascinating for me tonight is I'm reading an article here. After double hip surgery in April, Sabres prospect Ukapeka Lukanen is back on the ice.

And that's from 2019. Ukapeka Lukanen is the goalie for the Buffalo Sabres tonight. So this is many years later from that. So you can come through this and play for a lot of years after oh go ahead you go ahead i was just going to say if we want to hear the second clip from brube on matt murray as well okay just to close it off clip two please derek yeah dedicated guy you know obviously wants to he's won two cups and he's done it all but you know he still has a lot left in the tank and he wants to continue playing.

So it takes a lot of hard work, but, you know, it takes a lot of hard work and he's already accomplished the ultimate goal a couple times, you know, but he still has a lot of fire inside and wants to, you know, get back to the form he had once. So that clip stuck out to me because you've always and born in on not doubted you but we're always surprised by you saying how much this guy really because remember when he went on ltir we're like oh he's done it's done it's done he's never going to play again for the leafs it's done and you're always like i don't know i don't know he really wants

to push and that clip there just tells you that, like, for him to stick with it, you know, double hip surgery, playing in the AHL, fighting his way back here, like, he must have a fire. Yeah. It was the thought to clean up one hip. And I think it was, don't quote me, but I think it was pretty much his idea to get the second one done too. While you're in there.

While you're in there. While you're in there. While you're in there. While you're digging around. While you're cutting stuff off. Let's go. I'll get the deluxe. It's like if you get a car wash at a gas station. Exactly. Give me the ultimate package.

Deluxe hip surgery. That's it with a vacuum? Yeah, rust proof those too while you're in there. That's, I think, basically the way it went down. Yeah. And he's been pain free for the first time in a while here. You can't forget that he just turned 30 in May. Yeah.

So we're not talking about like a mid-30s to, you know, 40, closer to 40 we're talking about a very still relatively young man in professional sports like no older than still ours right like maybe half a year older than still ours so yeah it's not inconceivable that and we see goalies have success in their 30s all the time so it would be quite a story if he comes in now he would have to play pretty well to get continued opportunity, right? Like he's got four weeks here, probably get, what, six starts? Five starts? It's way too early for Brad Tree Living or Craig Berube,

Brendan Shanahan, whoever wants to stick their two cents in it to forecast what anything can look like. It's just balls in the air, to be honest with you. And who knows how they kind of fall between now and March. But I do believe that if they can get to a point where they're all healthy, then that management team will have some options and one of those options could be that matt murray could be playing so well that you want it

you may want to flip them there might be a team out there that could say i need experience to try to get me into a a spot and i i mean offhand i can't tell you what that team is, but it would probably have to be in the West somehow if someone's still in a race that may have a goalie go down or something. Could Utah, could St. Louis. Who knows what the scenario is. Colorado may need a fifth one. Or, on the other hand, you can sit there and go, okay, since the summer, Wall's been hurt.

Stoller's has been hurt. Murray's been hurt because a week and a half ago he was out. So it's like I can't take any chances here. I need them all. I think that's the most likely answer. Like I don't think, if you think he's your best option past Stoller's and Wall, I don't think getting a third rounder for Matt murray does he any good in a year you're trying to win a cup here it all depends again can you use the third rounder to flip it if you need

it or protect yourself a little bit down the road i don't know yeah those are their assets though yeah it's it's it's dealing from a position of strength which is nice you want everyone to be good so you can have options for sure but. But, I mean, you have to if you're carrying a third goalie, right, then because he would have to go, if he went back down, he'd have to clear waivers again, right? Is that correct? Oh, yeah, you're probably right. Surely, yeah.

You think a pro of a zillion games. I'm not a capologist here, but it feels like he would have to clear again to go back down, so that's one there. If you're going to carry a third goalie, the trade option we're getting so far ahead of ourselves here, but that seems like he would have to clear again to go back down. So that's one there. If you're going to carry a third goalie, the trade option. We're getting so far ahead of ourselves here, but that seems like it would be more likely. But anyways. Talking with my wife here.

What? I'm making plans down the road here, boys. What do you want from me? Yeah, I think well, we do believe that he's going to be up here for the next month. For sure. Right? Yeah. So, unless he gets hurt, right? Then it would be going to be up here for the next month. For sure. Right? Yeah. So. Unless he gets hurt, right, then it would be Hill to be again.

But it feels like they're going to send Hill to be down there, let him in, act him off, split time, and away you go. So he's making $875 right now, Murray. Okay. Okay. You want to move to the blue line here because we're going to see some major changes. What do you want to say before we go to the blue line? I thought we should maybe talk about Matthews.

Okay. All right. All right. before we go to the blue line? I thought we should maybe talk about Matthews. Okay. All right. All right. Do you think that's a developing story? Well, he didn't practice today, and it was... Not wildly uncommon in morning skates. But Luke, of course, asked Berube about it, and this was Berube's answer.

Clip four, please, Derek. It's tough. I mean, he's fighting through it, and he's doing a pretty good job out there on the ice. He's producing and playing hard and working, and we've just got to manage it. We've just got to manage it.

It'll get better. We've just got to manage it, though, and that's why he's off the ice today. Yeah, see, he kind of opened himself up a little bit there. Manage it. Manage it it fight through it hey chief what's the it yeah what's the it you want to mention it twice like i think tell us what it is i think everyone in the league at this point assumes it's something back related so let's

just talk about what it is so people can have some understanding what we're talking about here i have a few thoughts on this if you're showed some of your best hockey and what we'll joke about this all the time without him playing like if he's not right and time off and like be working off ice and not playing these games it's gonna make him better for the end of the year why is he fighting through these games in december where he doesn't look like you know he looks like 60 of himself right now like if he's truly still hurt and still fighting through this it makes no sense to me i think it's mostly concerning that he has taken what appears to be the most elaborate step you can make outside of surgery which is traveling to another continent

to see a doctor who can do things we can't do here like we're at a pretty desperate stage and it didn't work he looks exactly like he looked to me before he went to germany don't see any difference so it didn't work and what's the next option manage it they play over the next six weeks they play just checking 400 games like what i don't know how you're gonna manage that see i'm totally on board with you guys when i hear that he's fighting through it what are we doing why do i why why does he need on a friday night it's the worst uh like a couple of days away from christmas need to fight through against a team that hasn't won a game since, you know, a gazillion years ago. We got Domi's back, McMahon's back,

like you're pretty healthy otherwise. If I hear fighting through it, night off, Minton back up. That's a great point. Yeah, he's, it just doesn't seem like they need to go this route. And then this kind of lends to your point is if you've already tried the rest for nine games in three and a half weeks and that didn't work, then we're going to go through the fighting through it stage. Yeah. Because rest didn't work. You said it'll get better. So now we're going to just kind of fight through it. Treatment didn't help you said it so now we're gonna now we're gonna just kind

of fight through it uh treatment didn't help what if not treating it helps yeah what if the opposite of treating it what if fighting through it could help playing every single night that'll help it with guys who know you're kind of feeling it a little bit yeah and i and you know i that goal against dallas the first one where he's on the backside of, I forget who it was. Was it Sam Steele that ends up scoring it? Yeah. It's closer to the end of the shift. I understand it.

But, like, the stride is just stiff. I didn't like his route. What was the first game back? Someone drilled him that didn't have the puck. Was it Sanheim or someone on Philly or something? No, it was on, was it on the Blackhawks? Connor Murphy? Murphy.

Got him behind the net. Drilled him early. Like, didn't look good. So, you know, the two ways Craig Berube could have gone about this is to completely deny anything's wrong at all. Right? He's just working on his timing and just getting his confidence back. But he went totally the other way, as if it was an admission of we see what you see.

He's not all there. Thus, the fighting through it, thus the managing it. And that in itself is concerning. But part of that could be helping him out. So it takes him off the hook a little bit. Well, everyone can see that he's not, and if he is truly, he's in pain and he's trying to play for the team and whatever. I'm sure they're like, God, we can't have people thinking

he's just dogging it or something. So maybe it is an effort to help him out a little bit. That's fair. That is fair that it helps alleviate the, the, you know, we're not denying that he's not at the top of his game and he's, he's not looking like the player that we believe,

you know, he should be, or we all believe that he should be. So maybe that helps him take pressure off himself to say, they know I'm not a hundred percent. The coach is admitting. And then if there's another night, like the last few that we've seen,

it'd be like, Hey, no, he's managing through it. He's fighting through it. Or maybe, or maybe the simplest explanation is usually true. And it's that they haven't put much thought into the's managing through it. He's fighting through it. Or maybe, or maybe the simplest explanation is usually true, and it's that they haven't put much thought into the PR part of it,

and he just went out and answered some questions, which is an option, too. I feel like they might have had a conversation, but you may be right. Yeah, just. So, and we're heading towards here or something. I know it's still December, but they've got a bunch of games coming up here,

and playing hockey all the time doesn't make your back feel better. I'm assuming it's back again here. I'm just throwing that out there. I don't know how we cannot assume it's something else. I got to tell you, the Four Nations face-off conversation is already popping up, and it's like every Leaf fan, no, man, I'm not. I sent out a tweet about it earlier today, and everybody's saying Four Nation face-off, Four Nation face-off. If you're at this similar point at the end of January, you can't play.

Like, you can't. If he, the Leafs are going to have to step in here. I know it's an NHL-ran event. I know he's a face of one of the big teams. Like, I understand all that. But if he is fighting through this, his back is effed up or whatever it is, cannot play in that tournament. No, so you have a rare opportunity. all that but if he is fighting through this his back is effed up or whatever it is no doubt cannot play in that tournament no say you have flat out you have a rare opportunity the nhl almost never

two full weeks two weeks in the middle of the season before deadline to just rest this isn't do you want to win a stanley cup or uh whatever what are they the inaugural the inaugural face-off presented by rogers like just you know you know? No, I'm with you on that. And I think they'll cross that bridge when they come out. And I think if we go to even mid-January, right? There's got to be 10, 12 games. I think it's too early to have that conversation. Right now?

Yeah. Okay. It is. It's legit, but it's too early. If, in fact, Christmas is over, comes back, he's got two weeks of looking like his normal self, that'll be a really hard one for the league to swallow. You know, we're trying to build something here. Are you kidding me?

No, there's pressure. They can't tell a team. I'm telling you, I know they can't. And I know ultimately the Leafs will have the final say. But if he's looking like his old self by mid-January, that one's a very difficult one for even the Leafs, even the almighty Maple Leafs to go back to Gary Bettman and say... He's fine, but we'd rather he didn't play.

We know you marketed your U.S. team around him, and it's McDavid versus Matthews in a dream final, but we're going to leave him out for precautionary reasons. But, Kip, even if he's healthy, if he is healthy and he is performing, he's going to want to play. Absolutely. So if he's fine, he's going to play. There's no scenario where he's okay and they choose to rest him, I don't think.

No. Which you would love them to do. But he would be the first one to say if that tournament was next week, I can't go like this. No. Even he knows he doesn't have the juice right now. Boys, their schedule in January is bonkers. And really starting on the 27th of

december 27 28 31st and then it's every other day in january they're gonna have to give four five seventh ninth 11th 14 16th 18th 20th 22nd i mean it's every other day they're gonna have to give them some days off to me they have to right now is a huge missed opportunity not just to do it right this second be like hey we'll see on friday against the red wings the 27th it's like you're playing you're playing against the sabers and the and the islanders i guess you have the jets who are good on a monday it's a marquee game but to me it's a huge missed opportunity like if he's resting and he's fighting through it's like what are we doing here's the problem though first in the atlantic it's it's there's no guarantees right now that that would help that that would for for the second time

to go down another path of what three games is three enough we just did nine you're right you're right you're right i just i'm looking for answers here i'm looking for answers yeah so okay um d pairs blue line this kind of surprised me yeah me when I heard the major shuffling. I think, again, it's an ambition of, yeah, we're getting points, and yeah, we're getting lights out goaltending, but we don't like what we're seeing. You know, a lot of this isn't super surprising. Benoit and McCabe have been paired up again, and they've been great.

They were their shutdown pair in playoffs last year. We know that they can do it. OEL Tanev is really nice, I think, right? Handedness is there, lots to like. Riley Timmons, you know, we're at a point, and I have an article in Sportsnet where I wrote a little bit about Morgan Riley today. What did you say about him?

I said, and I may have said something like this on the show yesterday, but like, if a friend of mine has dated 10 straight girls that he tells me are crazy and it didn't work out at some point, he's dated enough people that I go, it might be you. Have you thought it might be you? Morgan's on his,

I don't know. Two or three girls. But I mean, no, but like Riley, I'm saying he's had enough partners now where you go, God, none of them are right for you.

Hey, like everyone's got something off. Maybe if it has to be Ron Hainsey or Luke Shen, can Riley not play with someone else? He doesn't work with OEL. He doesn't work with, I mean, go through the years of partners they've tried to pair him with, and it doesn't work. Why?

What is it in his game? That's kind of what I'm wondering what is it that it has to be luke shen this we've reached the point of the season where we've we start to question what morgan riley is like it's a it's an annual thing but i agree it's at some point here fine no i i don't know if he's been necessarily fine. I think there's been a lot of games that leaves you a little wanting more. No question. But I looked into the numbers today and like expected goals, percentage and stuff. He's like fifth on the decor.

Okay. It's not great. No. You know. And that meets the eye. Yeah. So. What's his plus minus?

I don't even know. Is that a factor? He's the only guy, only D-man at five on five who's been on for as many goals as he's given up. He's been on for 18-4 and 18 against at five on five. I'll check the NHL site. That was natural stat. On the team? No.

I think he does. Really? Yep. All right. Yeah. And it's not even close. It's problematic. Minus eight.

What was I looking at? So this must be other strengths, like empty net goals and stuff and things. I was looking at purely five on five. But yeah, no. Minus eight is the worst on the team. Second worst is minus three. Tanev. Tanev is.

Plus 11. Plus 11. Oh. Wow. We go from plus 11 to minus 8. And so. That's. That's significant.

That's just stunning. He's not beyond reproach. He's not beyond criticism at this point. McCabe is plus 9. Timmons plus 8. Ekman-Larsen plus 7. You know, like. Yeah.

Benoit plus 6. What is going on there? He's minus 8. I don't know. You know. I know he's on for a couple empty netters, but Benoit plus six. What is going on there? He's minus eight. I don't know. You know, I know he's on for a couple empty netters, but that's not enough. Do you want to hear the coach talk about the deep airs? Love to hear it. Clip three, please.

Well, like I think more than anything, it's, you know, we switched him up the last couple games in game, putting away all back on left. McCabe played right here before with Benoit. They were a good pair. It's a heavy pair. So it's just moving guys around. Just the same as we do up front.

Mix them up once in a while. This lends towards, like, really good or really bad. I don't know if there's going to be a middle here. Do you want to guess? Has he ever been good with an offensive defenseman? Ever? Probably not. I think his numbers with Lilligren were okay.

But you always assume that he is. San Jose Sharks scratched fame? The D-man getting scratched by the Sharks right now, yes. You always assume that he's the offensive guy to go end-to-end and he needs a stay-at-home guy. Right, and that's it. It's like, it's got to be

a labooshkin. It's got to be a butcher who does nothing but bang it off the glass. Why? Well, this is a problem. Yeah. It's a problem.

He's on his right side. They tried to play him with Tanev. The only thing, too. Everyone can play with. Yeah. His Timmons has slipped a little bit for me, too. Do you want a slipping Timmons with Riley?

Yeah, who took two penalties and should have taken three against the Stars. Yeah. Right? Like, he hasn't looked good for a few weeks here. Yeah. And you're going to put him with Riley? It's like, that's going to work? I bet you that pair plays the least minutes tonight.

For sure. Yeah, because I like those other two pairs. Now, how did you always feel if you came in and knew you were on a new line? You got a little juice out of it, right? Yeah, it's something fresh, new, a little exciting. And then your attention to detail and you want to make sure that it's a positive move. So factor in that Matt Murray's going in for his first game in 100 years

and you got new pairs so it could it could lend to the focus being a lot better and outside matthews they're healthier than they've been right camp is back in there mcmahon is helping drive that third line like there's you feel pretty good about the state of the team right now this is not all doom casting for a team that's winning a bunch and first in the Atlantic. But yeah, no, it's, I do think they're going to get a decent showing. The only counterpoint I've heard that I like is Sammy basically saying it never goes well in Buffalo.

At least it's always a house of horrors. Well, it's not the fans. I just picture old Brian McCabe shooting it in his own net down there. I just picture so many bad games. It's not the Leaf fans' fault. They're doing their part. To the point that the coach of Buffalo,

we have that clip? We do have that clip. Yeah, we do. Lindy Ruff talking about it. It's going to be a hard game, I'll tell you that. Lindy Ruff. Clip one. Clip one. Oh, we got no Lindy clips. What did lindy say though oh we found it well you know i think it's it's something you can embrace the challenge um it's not what you want to see in your building

obviously but the uh you know we've got a challenge ahead of us we know the it's all about the two points not not about the fans. We play well. We can take the fans out of the game. That clip's devastating. And it felt intentional. I know. I actually didn't hear it before we came on air.

I don't know. Did he get a laugh off of it? Was there a laugh off of it? That's a good point. Was it a joke? Was he trying to get a laugh? It wasn't much of a laugh, no. It wasn't?

No. Because if he's sending a message like we're trying to take their fans out of it i would have said that and i would have thought that i'd get a chuckle out of it and i'd kind of like but based on the last 12 games based on the fact that my my uh my general manager just had a laundry list of things that are not appealing about being in Buffalo, like no palm trees and state tax, I would have avoided that last sound bite. If he's trying to lighten the mood, I have no problem with it because you can't just live in the darkness.

But lighting the mood with it still is a shot at your organization, right? It's getting people to laugh at you, not with you. And they've had enough of that. Yeah, I'm fine. I would have avoided that line. That might not be the way to do it. I would have avoided that line like the plague. I would have said we've got great fans and we're going to hear from them tonight

and just leave it at that. Leave it on the hot seat, 30 games in. Do you guys want to hear Craig Berube's talk about the Sabres? This is really funny if you want to play it. So clip five on the Sabres, please, Terry. Well, it's going to be a hard game, I'll tell you that. You know, that team, you can look at the Montreal score all you want. I mean, Montreal

scored some power play goals on them, but they played extremely hard against Montreal. They were pretty good in that game, to be honest with you. They got Darlene back tonight. He's a handful. It'll be a good atmosphere. It'll be a good game. It'll be a competitive

game. Very competitive game, and our guys got to be ready to go from the start of the drop of the puck, and we got to be competitive right away, and we got to play North hockey right away. This is a very good team, talent wise, and if you turn pucks over and you're not checking

properly, they can do some damage. Is that Sheldon Keefe? I was just going to say, he would fall Sheldon Keefe. And that 6-1 loss he would fall Sheldon Keefe. And that 6-1 loss to one of the worst teams in the league. They actually were not bad. A major moral victory against the Canadians. They were bad.

He's just covering himself. That's just a wily veteran. He is, for sure. But that's the old Keefe move of every opponent you play. Their metrics are actually very good. They may not look great great but boy are they good uh doling coming back is not insignificant that's a big deal for them they've been missing him the only guy that he that matthews my prediction that there will be a gloves off

fight ever in his career will be against delhi fairly fightable face he just can't let's send him in do it tonight tonight yeah with his Yeah. Just really wrench your back, throw in a right cross. 70% back. Yep. That's the best idea. Okay. We take a quick break because we're going Buffalo Sabres talk after the break. Mike Harrington, columnist for the Buffalo News. This guy has been very critical on what has been going on there.

We'll get his thoughts on what needs to happen moving forward for the Buffalo Sabres. Can't wait to hear from Mike. That and more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Everything you need to know about the Raptors and the biggest stories around the NBA. Smith and Jones. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Kipriel, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee.

Welcome back to the Leaf Hour edition of the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Mike Harrington, Buffalo columnist for the Buffalo News will join us uh in a few seconds it's gonna be real interesting to hear from him uh in terms of what he thinks the buffalo sabers need to do moving forward here is it 13 i've lost count i think it's 11 straight games it's 11 straight games got some points along the way loser point here and there does that does that

help lose your points michael have answers all right let's welcome him in mike how are you pal games got some points along the way loser point here and there does that does that help loser points michael have answers all right let's welcome him in mike how are you pal thanks for joining us good afternoon nick yeah you know i was actually a foot away from barubi this this afternoon when he made that comment about how good the sabers looked in montreal the other night at times do you know that uh at one point in the first period there, the shots on goal were 9-0 and the shot attempts were 21-1? No, the Sabres did not look good in Montreal the other night. Well, you just pulled a Doug McClain where I just say hi and then you just shoot it out of a cannon.

Love it. Very, very good stuff, Mike, so far. So, you know, with the stretch of bad games here where is uh we need the leafs and their 15 000 fans to come into the building tonight like we need a hole in the head on a scale of one to ten it's about a 20 right now realistically the the whole the whole run they're on they don't need a three-game stretch of Toronto, Montreal, Toronto with all the media involved out of Canada. They needed right now to, I think, be in St. Louis and Columbus

and nowhere near Toronto and Montreal. But that didn't happen for them. You know, and it's unfortunate because it's an 11-game winless streak. There has been a lot of good games here. They have six one-goal losses, and two other games there were one goal with an empty netter. So there's been eight legitimately competitive games. Tuesday was not one of them.

And, you know, coming on the heels of the owner visiting the dressing room on Monday, you would have thought there would have been more of a response. And now you have to see where are they mentally at all coming into this game, at least, when there's going to be 90% of the crowd in their home building rooting for the other team? Mike, you would say at times over their 13-year playoff drought

that there were times you would call them hapless. This group, to me, does not seem without hap. They're okay. They've got some talent on that team right now, but for Pagoula to go in there and say that it's all within that room there, how do you assess what ownership decided to do there and what this team really needs? You know, I just think they don't know what to do right now. And that's why Terry Pagula showed up in Montreal and talked to them because I think they're so mentally fragile because you're right.

People don't realize before this 11-game winless streak, they were 11-6-1 in the previous 18 games. They were in third place in the Atlantic Division, two points behind the Florida Panthers. That's not a small sample size. For this thing to completely disintegrate in about three weeks is really unbelievable. And it goes back to December 3rd against Colorado when you blow a 4-0 lead. It's 4-1 in the third period. Darlene gets hurt. They lose the game 5-4.

That was the first of eight losses in a row in December without Darlene who comes back tonight. And I just think that game completely torpedoed their season. And right now there doesn't seem to be any recovery from it. Their defense core has been weak. Their forwards haven't been scoring. The power play has been a disaster. And it's just a question of mental fragility now at this point.

We're talking to Mike Harrington, Buffalo Sabres columnist with the Buffalo News Sports. So when we first heard of Terry Pagula coming in and buying the Buffalo Sabres, it was much like any new owner with deep pockets coming in and being somewhat of a savior, Mike. And here we are today. We're well versed on his latest visit to the team. But where is it big picture in terms of uh maybe even the balance between the football club and we know that he's the owner of the buffalo bills and and where are people and where are the

players when they see a an owner like pagula coming into the room is is it is it do buffalo saber fans feel a little slighted that it's all bills and and less sabers at this point there's some of that but there's just a lot of confusion here i mean the players a little slated that it's all bills and less sabers at this point? There's some of that, but there's just a lot of confusion here. I mean, the players were fine with Pagula coming in. There was a terrific vibe in the locker room Tuesday morning at the morning skate, actually. A lot of players met the media, and there was more of an upbeat feeling than I'd felt all month, and then you got that kind of response in the game.

But ultimately, you know, it's not like he's an incredible NFL owner. He got really lucky. He hired a first-time head coach, Sean McDermott, who brought in the GM, Brandon Bean. They drafted the quarterback who a lot of people said don't draft who turned into Josh Allen. I mean, let's not forget here, Terry Pagula, who's hired people like Ralph Kruger to coach his hockey team, hired Rex Ryan to coach his football team. So, you know, things have gone

really well for the Bills. They've had a lot of good decisions made and a lot of strokes of luck. I mean, look back, you're coming up on the 10-year anniversary. The whole plan for the Sabres was predicated on one thing, and it didn't happen. They didn't get Connor McDavid. We'll never know how hockey history would have changed at that lottery gone differently. And then it's been a series of revolving door of coaches and general managers and, you know,

the situation with Eichel and, and nothing has worked or gone right with this hockey. So the other day, Elliot Friedman started a bit of a firestorm when he said like what about cousins and by room for petterson is that where we're at in terms of uh you know how to fix this buffalo thing do they need to make a big move like that they need to make a big move i think but at this point you can't just do something with all the buzzards circling around, like all the crazy blog-type things coming out of Nashville. Oh, the Predators are going to get Dylan Cousins.

Well, the Predators might want Dylan Cousins, but they might want to talk to the Sabres about that, about what they're going to offer. I mean, some of these things you hear are pretty ridiculous, but that's the problem Kevin Adams has right now is he's not going to get a good trade. Nobody's going to help him out here, but you can't stand Pat and do nothing either because it goes back to what happened with Jason Botterill in 2018,

before they drafted Darlene, he finished last overall. And he famously said at a press conference, this mix is not working. Well, it applies again. This mix for whatever reason is not working. Well, it applies again. This mix, for whatever reason, is not working. They have to change it up.

There's going to be a core player here who has to be moved sooner rather than later at some point. They're just, you know, what are they going to do? Lose 16 or 18 or 20 in a row? You've got to do something here. And, Mike, do all Buffalo Sabres fans take Mr. Pakula at face value when he says no major changes, and Kevin Adams will have plenty of time to fix this. He's the guy. I think people do take it at face value

because they're disgusted by it. This team hasn't shown a penchant for making a lot of moves here. At some point, maybe, just for optics, you're going to probably have to remove the general manager. You're not going fire the coach you just brought him in and it's lindy ruff i mean but uh the idea that the thought is that you could sit there with an nhl team on an 11 game winless streak that could go deeper than that and do nothing to try to fix it and just watch your team careen into last place in the eastern conference is just incomprehensible to me but right now that's what they're doing.

So is Darlene going to make this? He's a huge difference maker for this team I think, and his absence here, has that been a major reason why they've struggled? You lose that many one-goal games and you're missing Darlene. That's got to be related. Yeah, it's tremendously related.

The power play has been terrible and he's certainly the quarterback there. We kind of joke amongst ourselves to cover the team. He's like a one-man breakout at times. I'm pretty convinced when the score was 4-1 in the third period against Colorado, if you had Rasmus Dahlien out there, you probably wouldn't have lost that game. But he hasn't been out there, and the defense has struggled without him. He's a guy who plays 25 minutes a night and they just haven't been able to

pick up the slack and get over the hump. And some of these games you guys saw in Toronto the other night, they had a three to one lead. And what happens? They go haywire for two or three minutes. They give up two or three goals. We've seen that act before. And all of a sudden a three,

one lead is a four, three deficit and they lose another game. They probably, you know, for the first 30 minutes had a good handle on. before and all of a sudden a 3-1 lead is a 4-3 deficit and they lose another game they probably you know for the first 30 minutes had a good handle on I gotta ask you about Owen Power Mike because it seemed like yesterday we were talking about this uh big stud college player coming in and and being great right away and uh it looked like he was just on this trajectory to be a superstar in a very short period of time. And now I'm watching him and lo and behold, he's 22 years old. He's closing in on 200 games in his career.

And he struggles in his own zone. That's the only way I can describe it to you in a nutshell here. And is this just a classic example of too much too soon? Yeah, they didn't need to sign him to a seven-year deal at $8.3 million a year, and they did. He's really kind of on the same plane Darlene was on. In 2021-22, Darlene really struggled at times and had to get through some hard times in year three and year four.

Young defensemen, I mean, Victor Hedman went through this too, but they paid him so much already, you're expecting superstar production at age 22, and he's not there yet. He's certainly not close in the defensive zone. He has to improve his awareness on the ice in the defensive zone. He has to improve his physicality. But he's a big guy who doesn't really hit he's more of a finesse player so you don't know where that's going to develop but right now the problem is the losing culture around the team makes it difficult for power people need the

instant gratification they need to see a star player and you're just not getting into 22 and sometimes like if you can if you can just get saves it kind of papers over a lot of the drama how is the goaltending situation playing out there uh nobody with a 900 save percentage but um you know upl how's that how's that gone he's been good for a large portion of the time now he hasn't really been good here in the last few games. I didn't like some of the goals in Montreal the other night. So if Koski beat him on a bank shot from behind the goal line, and even a couple of line A's goals, they're rockets, but the whole arena knows it's going over to line A.

You've got to shade to that side, and you've got to beat twice on shots that I didn't like. He needs to be better. He's like everybody else on this team. They need to be better. They cannot continue to make the same mistakes they're making. And, you know, once in a while you've lost 11 in a row, your goalie needs to steal you a game.

And he hasn't stolen them a game during this run either, and that's also a problem. Mike, I'm going to give you one crack here to be the general manager of the Buffalo Sabres, and you're going to create you one crack here to be the general manager of the Buffalo Sabres and you're going to you're going to create a little bit of a Jack Eichel blockbuster here with with one player in this lineup who would you choose would it would it be Dylan Cousins like everyone else is choosing right now boy you know I think it's still in Cousins everyone else is choosing because they like the potential they like the body they like the potential. They like the body. They like the age. Believe it or not, you know, if you wanted to get a big package,

maybe it's Tage Thompson or Alex Tuck. You know, a little bit more older, a little more distinctive. You kind of know what you have. And they're both fine. They're both – Tuck has missed some good opportunities this year. But I do think they need to really make a big move here. And I'm not sure the GM is capable of doing it. And I think a lot of other teams are trying to fleece them too, but you know,

how do you just, I go back to how do you continue to do this? They need more men on this team. They have too many kids. They need more NHL veteran players on this team right now. They're still rebuilding, but at some point, you've got to try to win hockey games, and you can't rely on draft picks and prospects because the GM's not going to be around. They need to get some more veteran players in here.

You know, you think of the Bowen Byron for Casey Middlestad trade. That was a hockey trade. The Buffalo Sabres need another big hockey trade of NHL regular players to try to shake this thing up. Kept to back Mike up on that. The Sabres are the youngest roster in the NHL. 26.1 years of age

right now. And Mike, get those Leaf fans to keep it down to a dull roar, would you, tonight? I don't think it's going to be very much of a dull roar. Thanks for joining us, Mike. Alright, take care, tonight? I don't think it's going to be very much of a dull roar. Thanks for joining us, Mike. Alright, take care, gentlemen. Appreciate it. Thank you. Mike Harrington, Buffalo News Sports.

Youngest roster in the league at 26.1. Canadians are 26.4. Flyers and Sharks straight behind. Boy, you hear the frustration of covering this hockey club in his voice. I will say, the Tage Thompson thing's interesting to me. You can't trade good players and get better.

No, but you, I don't know. And the two points he made there, them trading right now is horrifying because everybody's circling. Oh, yeah, you're trading? Yeah, you want to trade your good players, do you? Yeah, all the savvy general managers in the league are like, got Kevin Adams on speed dial right now,

calling him, picking away. Can you imagine Kevin Adams right now just contemplating a Tate Thompson trade? Oh, my God. No. Come on. The Owen Power thing is interesting if you believe that he's not going to become something else. Because I still think he's a talent that can become something really, really special. I still think it's within him.

I do, too. He still think it's within him. I do too. He's got to find an edge. You cannot be 6'6", and maybe Hedman's the type of guy he should just be looking at. Mike made a valid point here. In year three, there's still some struggles, and then the way he blossomed but there's there's a streak in headman yeah but you gotta be strong like headman but i don't know there's a streak in him he just

he doesn't like back down no but he but he but he he plays with force yes he plays with force plays and that's it i'm not talking about scaring guys intimidating guys ripping guys heads off i'm just saying though when he's out there he's forceful in controlling and managing the play big guys can play you know barkov matthews when he's good like some of these big guys who aren't tough can still be tough to play against and Power is certainly not tough to play against yet. I'd be terrified trading Cousins. Cousins to me seems... I'm less scared trading him than Power.

Any of these guys... I mean, the way it goes with the Sabres stuff now, any guy you trade, whoever it is, it's Reinhardt, it's Eichel, it's Montour, it's all of them. First of all, I don't believe that there's a team out there right now that would be willing to do a package for Owen Power right now to take on $8.3 million without knowing for sure what you think you're getting. And right now you don't know what you're getting with him.

So there is, in my opinion, there is no deal out there for an Owen Power right now. You know, I... Unless they want to eat money off of it. No. And they won't. I have long been a proponent of the, let's pay this guy before everyone else realizes

he's going to be worth so much more. The Power one and their other guy there. Is it Rasmussen? I forget. Well, but they got, there was a few of those. The power one is like, at least bridge him and see, let him have a year before. Like Jack Hughes had a year of like, oh, you can see it's there.

I don't know that power has had that. The last few years, Buffalo or Ottawa has been dealing with that. You paid all your young guys without really knowing for sure. Matias Samuelsson is what you're looking for. Matias Samuelsson. Jeez. Just, it's okay. Players got to catch up to that.

Yeah. Right now, it just doesn't seem like it's more Ottawa's time finally than it is Buffalo's right now. Everyone was like, let's do the Nick Paul thing. And then, meanwhile, Pierre Engvall's bank in 20. Huge night tonight. I'm just not talking about hockey. Don Postles is retiring.

Who? Don Postles. Buffalo News, Channel 4. Okay. Congratulations to Don. Irv Weinstein. Oh, you read that Simmons column yesterday With a bunch of names in it That was a good column though

He's like I am an old guy as well Commander Tom Commander Tom mean anything to you? Oh Puppies Puppies I'm the dinosaur Doug McClane don't go away.