Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: The Test in Texas

Episode Date: December 18, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look ahead to the Leafs' matchup tonight against the Dallas Stars. They get into what to expect from the loaded-up top line, their belief in Joseph Woll as he takes over the starting role, David Kämpf's return, the bottom-six line combinations, and much more. Later, Stars' GM Jim Nill (29:55) joins the show to discuss his squad's season through 30 games, the urgency to add after losing Tyler Seguin, their blue-line strength and much more.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

we got a game night the kiprios justin bourne it's the real kipper and bourne show sammy mckee also on board derrick brandeo and Jake Schultz. Hey, when you come in looking all handsome, Kip, this is stressful. Looking good. A family get-together. Do you guys want a heads up if I'm going to kind of, you know, look the part a little bit?

I'm evolving. Some days you come in here with your three-piece top hat and monocle and I'm wearing my sweatpants. Would you have second-guessed that decision to wear that shirt? evolving some days you come in here with your three-piece top top hat monocle would you wear my sweatpants would you have second guessed that decision to wear that shirt no i look good today you do look good i'm not worried about today and at the end of the day i am i have seven shirts so they're just on a seven day i can dress any way i want and i still won't look as young as you guys. You have that on me. I'm losing it quick, man. The kids are draining the life force out of me.

Like fresh hair, money vest, jackets looking, I'm sorry, shirts looking great. Where are you going to dinner? You'll have to tell us, no? Something that ends in OS? I'll take my parents to the golf course for dinner tonight. Oh, that's really nice. My dad is turning 91.

Wow. How's he doing? Doing great? He is on the ball beyond belief. He's telling stories when he was eight years old like they happened yesterday.

That's awesome. That's great. You get to look forward to that. Yeah, and i can't find my car keys i was gonna say he's on the ball and sharp maybe george should be our uh a guest at 4 30 let's do it i'm in all right uh we're glad you're aboard wherever you're watching listening sports at 590 the fans sports net 360net 360, Sportsnet Plus. The Toronto Maple Leafs in for, I think, a tough one tonight. A good test against a tough Western opponent in the Dallas Stars, JB.

Yeah, this Dallas Stars team, best defensive team in the NHL in terms of goals not allowed. Ottinger starting to find it again. So yeah this is going to be a tough one. Because you know the Leafs don't give up a ton. The Leafs don't blow leads. The Stars don't give up leads. This is going to be a two to one game.

At some point in the third period. And it's going to be tight. Yeah this is the chance to be a real slog. The Stars have only given up 75 goals this season. That's the least in the NHL. All their advanced stuff from their inner slot shots and all their defensive metrics. It's a very, very sound defensive team.

So it's kind of a, you know, looking at each other here, you have the two goalies from the U.S. development group going up against each other that are both good young American goalies. A few parallels between these two teams. So it could be a bit of a, the under could be in play tonight. Can I give you a quote from Jake Ottinger in 2023? Yes.

Talking about playing the Leafs, about Joseph Wohl, who then was just made an appearance or two. He said, he's a stud. You can ask anyone in our locker room. Last year in the playoffs, I was saying, I think that will be his net very soon. Here you are in 2024.

And it's his net. Starting goalie for the Toronto Maple Leafs. We also have in about 30 minutes, Jim Nill, general manager of the Dallas Stars. We'll get into a few things. That's cool. Including, he's got a bit of a hole, a void in his salary cap. Tyler, say again.

We think is gone for the rest of the season can he sneak him in till april till april right yeah can he nikita nikita say again yeah can he pull a kucherov yeah for the dallas stars that's an option but there's no doubt that uh he's shopping of course we know that uh nhl general managers have a Thursday midnight deadline before things shut down for their Christmas break. Two things. Plus, he's the associate GM for Team Canada at the Four Nations with Don Sweeney. So maybe you could get into that a little bit with him if you care.

Yes. The teams have already been named. Even if we don't care, you do. I really do. So the question about the trade freeze thing, was that a Berkey thing? Yes. No? Wasn't it him that made the?

What was the story? The Berkey thing is that he has his own. Meaning that wherever the freeze is in the league, I want to say Berkey would give us an extra week to say this is my freeze. I will not trade. Cost the team nothing. A little extra peace of mind. Unless he turned down a great deal.

Yeah. Hey, Berkey, how about this one? Yeah. It's available today only. Gretzky for your seventh pick. Oh, man. If it wasn't for that it's such a freeze it's such a good point my internal freeze it's a freeze until it isn't so it's 20th to 27th is that what the trade like feels the 20th feels late to me i'm with berkey

like if you're getting traded on de the 20th, like, that is... It's not happening. No, but, I mean, all I see is that the Canucks are looking for... I know if somebody gets traded, like, just feels uproot in your life at that time of year, that's a tough one. Anyways. Kip's probably going to hate this comment

because he's a very pro player. But, like, to me, it's like... You're making millions. You play in the NHL. It comes with some risks. Sometimes you get punched in the face. you get traded so it's hard it's a hard get compensated for the hardness oh and now you're gonna tell me we should play on christmas day well plenty of leagues do plenty of leagues do yeah i don't think they want to go anywhere near that the nba's ratings are

already brutal and now they're what is going on there. The NFL has taken over. Yeah. It's just the only, all anyone cares about is the NFL. So Sammy just went to that. He came back from Detroit. Like he had had a religious experience. It was like,

he's a NFL evangelical. Now it converts people. It's a different world. It's a different world. It's a different world. But yeah. And there's, they're doing like a Netflix game on Christmas Day this year with the Chiefs and the Steelers on Netflix. Anyway, so.

You know what? It's probably coming. Well, you think they'll put the NHL on Christmas Day? But now they don't want to compete with the NFL. So how many games on the NFL Christmas Day? I think just one. Two. Two says Jake.

So I know the Chiefs and Steelers. But another one would be a primetime game, correct? An 8 o'clock game? Ravens and Texans is the other one. And that's at 8 p.m. Eastern. So where are you going to fit in an NHL game? Would you do a noon game? All I know is I've been to plenty of family functions

where you would be dying for a game. Just put one on for the boys to go sit in the living room. Can I tell you something right now? The amount of times I've escaped to watch Mavs T-Wolves at 10 p.m. on Christmas Day. Well, don't miss this one. Really got to watch these two teams I haven't watched before. I'd really like to help with the cleanup.

Yeah. But come on. My dad, he handles it pretty well. He cleans it up pretty good. I got to tell you, that was a Clark Gillies staple. When I was new to the Gillies clan, Clark could pour himself a rum and diet in a pint glass and go sit on the couch. And I was like, oh, we're good now?

We're good? We can go in there? Go post up with Clark. And you don't dare bother him unless he wants to talk to you. All initiated by him. Otherwise, I'll sit there in silence and watch the Yankees most of the time whatever whatever he had on you're a good son-in-law shut up and keep up you're like a caddy in the in the pga just shut up and keep up a lot of experience with my my dad and his friends that that is the role shut up all right let's uh let's get craig

broobie's thought on our first kippers clipper of the show on those Dallas Stars. Yeah, well, they've got some real good skill over there and good players, obviously. But they've been a good team for quite some time now, you know. This is going back, you know, years. Like, they've had this core here. And, you know, they play a good brand of hockey. I mean, they don't give up a whole lot defensively. They got some, they play a fast game.

Special teams are good. It's a hard team. It's a good team. It's a weird team, by the way. I look at the Dallas Stars right now, and they remind me of the San Jose Sharks like 10 years ago or 12 years ago or whenever it was like, all right, this is going to be the year of the San Jose Sharks.

They've been knocking. They've been every time we talk about the Western Conference, we mentioned Marlow, Thornton, Pavelski, and how close the Sharks are. Yeah, the Sharks are. And now I look at the Dallas Stars today, last year, the year before. It's hard not to mention contenders for the Stanley Cup without mentioning the Dallas Stars.

But, like, are they close enough for you are they are they one player away or are they just a really good run of ottinger and net away from winning a stanley cup as is my criticism of them in the past so first they're another team like st louis that is just like i think well gm'd and not just saying that because we have jim nill but like you look at the guys he's brought up behind their stars, but to me it's like they had this old wave of great players and Sagan and Ben and it was Pavelski before and then this young wave of Stankoven and Johnston but there wasn't that middle piece

and I worry that, yeah, it's not going to connect. They're Duchesne and they're the old guys and then they're the young guys. So kind of a weird hodgepodge of talent on this team not really sure what to make of it necessarily jamie benz sam steel and evgeny dadnov's a line what is that yeah and uh matt duchesne's having a huge year for them he's got 30 points for them i think he leads their team in points so yeah they are an interesting squad there seems to be that gap between the white johnsons and the jam Bens.

Yeah, like I don't think they're, like one of them is talking about Pokemon or whatever, and the other is dealing with his Roth IRA. You've never sounded older. His Pokemans. He's talking about his Pokemans. But it's another great, since we are in the Leaf Hour, it's a great opportunity to be tortured for Leaf fans watching Mason Marchment who was traded for

Malgan, as everybody knows. And he's been good for them this year. He's a beast. He's the type of guy that every Leaf fan would love on their team. So it's another opportunity for Leaf fans to be tortured watching him play tonight. That's fun. Or it's another chance to think that they're going to win because they have won six straight meetings

against the Stars. That's wild. They've done really good. Outscoring them 24-10. The same ones that I've just spoken of about being a contender. Nick Robertson versus Jason Robertson. Nick Robertson is 4-0. He has two goals to Jason's zero, two points to Jason's one, ten shots to Jason's nine. Nick Robertson, the better Robertson. And if you'll remember correctly,

I think Matthews broke the Leafs' single season goal scoring record in Dallas. It was an overtime goal. It wasn't just an overtime goal. It was a goal, I don't know if you guys remember it, where he looped into the neutral zone and it was as if he had like two or three

guys hanging off his back and he went in and stuffed it in. And you're like one of the all-time power moves. Yeah. It was a statement goal. It wasn't just a goal. And it wasn't just to set a record. It was, for me, a statement goal.

It's funny because I don't remember that, but I remember Nick Robertson's OT winner. You do. Yeah. That's where I'm at wow so yeah i uh it'd be interesting to see if they can get that matthews be nice to morgan riley has uh lit up the dallas stars uh all-time points per game among defenseman versus dallas it's bobby orr then morgan riley then paul coffee and dennis boffin 1.29 points per game against the stars wow all right so does loading up a big line for the toronto maple leafs get them to seven straight you're gonna win you're

gonna hate this morning oh god the advice oh the advice to the top line uh click here please somewhere to the inside uh number two clip two Derek. Don't be too fancy. Like, you know, you still got to play the right way, be direct, shoot pucks, get to the net. You know, like I talk to these guys, like you can't all be on the outside wanting the puck and, you know, trying to create space for yourself. You know, we got to be direct still and you got to have guys at the net. So if somebody's got the puck, the other two guys got to read off each other and they got have guys at the net. So if somebody's got the puck, the other two guys have got to read off each other and they've got to be at the net. Because if they have the puck and they're skating around

and doing all this stuff and nobody's at the net, no shots are getting there. It's pretty much useless. Has he seen the way the three of them dress? They do fancy. Can we just get the start of that clip again, please, Derek? Don't be too fancy. That's a great drop.

Save that one. They are fancy. They are fancy. That's why they're bajillionaires and why they're famous and why they're all-stars. That's what it boils down to. All the fame-tracking guys. They're fancy. If you don't want these guys to be fancy, and I'm asking this to the coach,

it's the Toronto Maple Leafs, and I will never get an answer. Why are you putting these three guys together if you don't want it to be fancy. And I'm asking this to the coach. It's trying to make a place. And I will never get an answer. Why are you putting these three guys together if you don't want it to be fancy? Like, what are you? You're expecting all these guys to be like Thomas Holmstrom all of a sudden? Like, I just, if you don't want them to be fancy, why put them together? It's going to be the fanciest thing ever. Oh, God. They're talking about monocles.

They're coming out doing Rockettes. Oh, yeah. Kicks. And you see what you get tonight very it's it's like it's almost like he's preparing to be mad at it i know like he's pre-mad he hates it he's pre-mad it's such a good what are we gonna say if habits take time if they dump if they dump a puck into a corner i'm gonna be crushed well i know and and they're going to can you just see

it like willie's coming up through the neutral zone he dumps it in mitch's corner and mitch bangs in or who they have on d back there i don't even know is hawking the other one and goes go get it go they all try to be me i went in last time yeah It's your turn to dump and chase. They got Labushkin, Brandon Smith, Nils Lundqvist. How is this team so good? Leon Bichelle, Oscar Back, Colin Blackwell. You do anticipate a lot of twisting and turning and cycling. I hope so.

Right? Harlem Globetrotters, let's go. But to Craig's point. Let's see some passes. Kinect kept three in a row. Let's keep track tonight to Craig's point. Let's see some passes. Connect, Kip. Three in a row. Let's keep track tonight. How many three-in-a-row passes we get? Crisp.

On the tip. Tick, tack, toe. Not. And to answer your Thomas Harley's day-to-day and Matt Dumba's on the IR, so there's two members that are D-core. Harley's very good. He's out. Dumba's good as well.

So a couple guys in their D-core that are out. Their forward group is Robertson, Hintz, Johnston, which I love as a line. Marchment, Duchesne, Stankoven, very good. They're good. Yep. We know Stolar's out for anywhere between four and six weeks. We know Joseph Wall's the man right now.

Yeah. four and six weeks we know joseph wall's the man right now yeah so what do you think's going through his mind right now in terms of looking first of all like you're starting out it's not kind of like dip your toe in the water here as the new number one goaltender now for the leafs it's up against a very tough team what do do you think how he's feeling now moving forward? You know, he doesn't seem like a guy who gets too stressed out. You know, he's a good self-talk, smart guy. But I just feel like, so I follow the Islanders, as you guys know. And Varlamov's hurt, so they're playing Sorokin every night.

Sorokin's been, he was great for a while, great save percentage. And the last three games, it's like 867, 818, 826. Like, it's just, it's like nine of their last ten starts or nine of their last nine maybe he's been in. And it's just like it's falling apart on him a little bit. Like, can Joseph Wohl, how much are they going to lean on Wohl with no backup? I want to say no backup.

I'm sure he's pretty, I'm sure, like, on a personal level, it's pretty exciting for him to go up against Ottinger tonight. That's like their former teammates with the U.S. Junior National Program or whatever. That's probably pretty cool. They've never actually gotten to play.

I think it was last year that maybe he was hurt. Probably that he was hurt so they didn't get the matchup. So that's probably cool. But like I said yesterday, I'll say it again. To Borny's point,

gotta be careful here. You're really, you got to be careful. I want to ask you this question because you kind of have a temperature out there for the overall feel of the Leafs amongst your people. My people. Your people. Oh, my people. Thank you.

And that is that if Wald doesn't have a great, I'm not saying that he's pulled, I'm not saying that he gets shelled, but he just doesn't have a great night. Does that start now a small fire in your world about the goaltending or are you going to be okay? I think mostly fans, their real worry with Wall

is injury, not performance. Where I think everybody, myself included, kind of thinks that he's a very good goalie and think that he's going to be okay and that if he's in the lineup, they trust that he's going to be pretty good. It's just that they play 100 games in the next four days

and that he's very injury prone and that how much he's going to be pretty good. It's just that they play 100 games in the next four days and that he's very injury prone and that how much he's going to be playing and sort of what you were talking about with Sorokin, that's the worry. But if he's in there and he's healthy, I trust he's going to give them around nine, between 9-10 and 9-15 goaltending, which should be, with this talent on this team,

good enough to win. So I think that's where mostly change will happen. So outside of tonight, we do know that it's hot and cold right now in terms of the talent that you're going to face hot tonight against the stars then you come back with buffalo and the islanders then you go another tough one against winnipeg here he'd have to go on a small stretch of underperforming for you to feel like they're, Houston, we got a problem. It would be hard.

This is the jinxiest thing. Oh, boy. It'd be hard to make me nervous about his performance because I'm with Sam. No, I believe he's a good goalie too. For me, it's just like, yeah, can he do it without breaking things down? So we're still feeling like they're in good shape here because you can't give them all these kudos for the depth that they've had in that,

from training camp to this point, without feeling like if one of them disappeared, the house was not going to fall apart. And I also feel like with Stolarz, there's probably some under- under promise and over deliver hopes you know say four to six weeks and maybe he's back three to four or something like i it doesn't have to be that long i will just say i don't remember a schedule because of the four nations face off as condensed as this one from now till the end of january i don't know the leafs got to play

20 times like it's a ton of hockey so do you want to listen to the coach on it yes okay clip three please derek yeah i mean he's got to take the ball and run with it here and um like i said he's played really well for us this year and um you know he's gonna be put a little bit more in the spot now not so much of a rotation right so um i think he's prepared for it, and I think he wants that. I think so too. So just looking ahead here, if we're talking about the starts, you go, obviously he's starting tonight, Friday against the Sabres.

It's hill to be for me, for sure, right? Because you don't want the two-day thing scary just what happened with stolars and then it's the and then i guess you have to go uh wall on saturday against the aisles and then you go to monday against the jets wall yes 100 okay all day long and then you're then you're off till friday against the red one that's the closeout So four games until Christmas, you see him getting

three of them. Yes, I do. Yeah. I do. But Sam, if you can't use him that much, you can't play playoffs.

A little different scenario. I know. I understand, but we literally just had this conversation with Stolarz where you guys were mad about him

starting in two games 48 hours later, and this guy is just as, if not more injury-prone than Stoller's. I don't mind with a Saturday-Monday. Both are at home, and you should be able to take care of business against the Islanders at home Saturday night and then finish it off with a good effort

against a very good, solid hockey club in the Jets. It would be crazy. Like, let's say Wohl gets hurt somewhere in that stretch where you entered a playoff series. Why do you just throw that out? Good Lord. We're the first guy to thought, we're talking about it. What do you just say?

I hope he gets a shout out. That's honestly what we're talking about. That's like saying get a shout out five minutes before the game's over. I wonder if they would literally do a tandem in playoffs and say we don't want either guy going on 48 hours your game your game your game your game back and forth you know post these answers no i agree no i agree i'm gonna talk about the third line yeah it's pretty good so the the leafs are finally healthy they've gone through a stretch where you know they were really thin and then uh recently have got back who they got back so december 7th patch ready the 10th domey 12th mccabe 14th mcmahon

uh and tonight camp all back so they're five guys back in the past week or two all right let's go to craig broby clip five on getting some help i love that they scored i wanted to score but it's the mindset that they had in my opinion was you know max and robbie and mac they skated and they were on people and they they played fast and they played north and they were all physical that's really what it boils down to they were in there they competed on pucks they won north and they were all physical. That's really what it boils down to. They were in there, they competed on pucks, they won puck battles, they took the body, and they attacked. And they've got to stay with that. And it's just about them managing the puck.

Like, we don't need you to be cute. We need you to play this way. Play north. Get on the forecheck. Play fast. Get in there. Win puck battles. Get to the net.

They did a real good job last game for us. We don't need you to be fancy pants. You could legitimately AI generate for Ruby. Don't be too fancy. I think you could AI generate anyone. Some people, to change their opinions, this guy, you know exactly what he's going to say. Yeah.

Like Sheldon Keefe last year, you never really were sure. That's fair. You know exactly what he's going to say. Yeah. Like Sheldon Keith last year, you never really were sure. That's fair. You know exactly what he's going to say. Yeah. I saw everything. We saw everything that he spoke of between Domi Robertson and McMahon, and I think McMahon's been very good

since he's come back. He's another one that just, like, you're not so worried about anything except, hey, stay in the lineup. Stay healthy. You know what I think a lot of fans, at least they probably don't know, is how much these guys were hurt with the Marlies. Like, McMahon was regularly, when they wanted him, he wasn't quite healthy.

Wohl got hurt with the Marlies multiple times, too. So, it's not like we're just harping on a few NHL injuries here. This has been... I really do think, though, that McMahon is a bit of an X factor for the Leafs. Yeah. Just in terms of... It's tough not to notice that when he's in. I got to tell you, being at the game on Saturday night, his speed jumps off the ice.

Oh, yeah. Like, his... And he can take it to the net. But when he drops that shoulder and cuts the puck into the middle of the ice oh yeah like his his and he can take it to the net but when he drops that shoulder and cuts the puck into the middle of the ice there's not many guys in the leafs that look like that with it with it and you know he had that breakaway where he got stoned by husso on saturday like he really really was flying up and down the ice for me yeah it's just his can we count on you okay are you reliable and like can you do anything about that if you're him like i

don't is it just a matter of you know you don't think it's like the guy doesn't want to do it you know that's not it right it's just unlucky i guess he's 94th percentile in the nhl and speed bursts over 20 miles per hour i would say that looking at this lineup with these forward lines if those three lines i don't know it's a lot to ask but can show and turn out to be like that's a really good top nine and you know you can have the conversation about reeves and a lot of certain members of leafs nation think that reeves maybe shouldn't be playing as much as he is and whatever we can have we can have that conversation but i

don't hate having him out there for eight minutes a night or whatever but in that fourth line is big and long and strong or whatever but i just i do look at that forward core and if you add something else to that even it gets even more deep i mean holmberg out though i'm not a huge like at times reefs fan but i think he gets underrated a little bit too for the physicality he also brings if i'm not mistaken he is one of the top hitters not just on toronto but in the league you're not mistaken he finishes every check yeah i don't know do you have access to that real quick yep where would he be amongst hitters in the league you know part of it is like having to tease it out for per 60 because of his minutes but let me if you give me half a sec i'll say minimum what 10 games like he's to me to me if if he's yeah he's fifth in the league fifth in the

league that's pretty that's for 60 that's for 60 that's for 60. he leans on everybody right it's he's a tone setter so first in the league is keifer sherwood by the way i mean this is a hat trick. Yeah. Kiefer, you're going to probably hate this, and you may hate it too, but I saw the picture. Like, you know how they put up that cheesy, like, belt picture after every game? They put up, I don't know who got the belt on. Probably John Tavares, because he got a hat trick.

But they put up that picture, and it's Matthews, and it's Tavares in it. Reeves is in the middle there. He's got a big tooth. Like, they seem to genuinely like him. Like, that kind of does matter too. Yeah. I think he's popular popular i also don't think he's a bad hockey player you know i mean i don't think he's he makes plays at times he can come up with a puck get it back to the point go to the net i think he reeves is like the philosophical debate of like are you someone who just like sees him as this enforcer or whatever in which case yeah you might rather have pontus holmberg in that spot tonight but i think it's fine to have the element of reeves as a little something that holmberg doesn't i'm

telling you something he doesn't i'm telling you right now if i got a pick between those two it's a very obvious choice for me it's reeves 10 times just really one more uh before we move on discussing the top nine here in your world is there now a possibility that you start the stanley cup playoffs with mcmahon domey and robertson as your third line no way i guess what are we talking about then the last 10 minutes well because you have to i mean get to win games and get to the playoffs domey robertson is not a pair with Domi in the middle. Okay. Okay. I mean. You're searching for anything to give these guys a blow in the top six.

It's okay to talk about it mid-December. Of course. And give them kudos. But it's not a long-term growth to going deep in the playoffs for you. Let's say Nicky Bobby got red hot. Red hot. Shoots it in a whole bunch over the next stretch. Could you see him being here in playoffs?

Because this has been the comment. We've pretty much said he's not going to be. No, they trade him out at the peak of his value. That's what you do. They should have done this at the start of the preseason. The answer is yes, he could be around, but he's going to be around with more depth than what we see now.

So I envision him possibly being the 22nd guy in the roster he's scratching right and then he comes in when you need a goal and if he does maybe it's sliding him second third line but as as a regular, to build towards a battling third line, I'm with you that it's just, it just doesn't seem like a Domi Robertson, Tannum along with a heavier guy like McMahon would be still possible for me.

I think it's more likely he's watching the game from San Jose when they trade him for a depth team. Anyways, we should go out and get to Jim Neal. Okay, we got Jim Neal. When we turn around, we'll get more into the Dallas Stars, but we will dive in deeper on the Leaf blue line as well, OEL, what we've seen lately from him, and where's the comfort zone on which side he should play on.

That and more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Get smarter when you listen to Hockey Talk, the Hockey PDO cast with Dmitry Filippovich. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the Real Kipper and Bourne Show as we tee up the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Dallas Stars Wednesday night hockey on Sportsnet. Let's welcome in Jim Neal, general manager for the Dallas Stars.

Jim, hope you're well. Thanks for joining us. Just want to touch base on on your hockey club coming off a couple of wins uh a 3-1 the latest one against a very good washington capital hockey club but prior to that a tough loss against nashville who's struggling where where do you see it uh in terms of your comfort zone after 30 games? Yeah, Nick and Justin, thanks for having me on. Appreciate it. You know, I'm one of those grumpy GMs. I always expect more, so I'm never happy.

But, you know, I'm not going to complain about our record. You know, we've done a lot of good things. But other than three or four games, I can't say we've had everybody kind of humming along and on the same page and playing well at the same time. We've had some guys playing great, Matt Deshane, Marchment, Sagan. You know, he's injured now, but their line was really carrying us for a long time. Jake Ottinger's been outstanding in net.

Our defense overall has been very good. But we've really lacked, you know, Jason Robertson's got off to a slow start. And he just scored his seventh or eighth goal, I think it was, the other night. You know, Rupi Hintz is now up to 12 goals, but off to a slow start. Wyatt Johnson's got six goals right now, I believe it is. So we've got a lot of guys that are a big part of our team and need to take the next step for us to have success. We just haven't got everybody on the same page at the same time,

but still, it's a long year. We've all been around a long time. It's a long season. So I know it's there. It's just kind of getting that all meshing together. I think you're in a pretty good spot when you've given up the fewest goals in the NHL and you're going, yeah, I don't know. We got better. We got better. That's a pretty good spot when you've given up the fewest goals in the nhl and you're going yeah i don't know we got better we got better that's a pretty good position for a gm to be in so one of the tough parts offensively is you have lost tyler

segan um we've talked a little bit on this show about what sort of opportunities that presents to you um would you intend to be looking to use some of that money to add some scoring? Well, what I want to do first is we've integrated a lot of younger players into our lineup. You know, Logan Stankoven came onto our team late last year, and this is really his first full year. He's a candidate for Rook of the Year. He's a good young player. Giving him more ice time, more responsibility.

Where is he going to be at? That's what I want to see. Maverick Bork was the AHL MVP of the year last year, the most valuable player. He's now on our team. Let's see what step he takes. We've got Liam Bischel, a young defenseman, coming and playing for us.

So we're integrating some younger players into the lineup, and I want to see where they're at. And do they grab this opportunity? to see where they're at and do they grab this opportunity uh i'm anticipating going to and that's going to put less i guess urgency to kind of you know replace a player like tyrus this day again or even add more to our team so i want to wait and see like i said we're 28 29 games into the season let's see where we're at here at the 40-45 game mark and then I'll kind of make that decision as far as to you know what's the next step for our

team. Jim just from afar it just seemed the last few years as you just kind of pointed out that you had those veterans for sure and I'll include Pavelski before he shut it down and then the young kids and then at times do you look at your lineup and speak of that gap in between and as much as you want to give experience to Logan and Sam and the rest of them they still can't get older they can get more

experience obviously as they play each and every game but ultimately do you need a gap somewhere to bridge the two sides? Well, that's what we're going to see. We're transitioning a little bit. I go back to four or five years ago.

Our team was at a point where what was the next direction going to be? And all of a sudden, we had this one big draft group came in, the Meryl Haskinons, Jason Robertson, Rupert Henson, these guys all came in. And we're kind of going through that same transition right now with Logan Stankovic, Wyatt Johnson, Maverick Bork, Thomas Hardy. So we're kind of transitioning here in between. And these guys have all gained experience playing in the playoffs and that. And you mentioned Joe Pavelski, we lost him. Who's going to step up and take that ice time? Who's going to grab that opportunity? And, you know, Wyatt Johnson's one

of those young guys we're anticipating. So we want to see what next step they take. You know, it's a tough league and, you know, we have expectations, but these players have to find their way too. It's not easy sometimes. And so we're going to have some patience with them. Let's see where they're at and see where it all fits in as we go for the next 20, 30 games. Jim, do you have a drafting or development philosophy in particular? I just look at like, you know, Jason Robertson and Johnston and Stankoven and Bork and Harley and Heisken

and like these guys that you draft have become really high-end players. And do you think it's better for these guys that they're coming into a good team and they have the supports around them um you know compared to some guys on some very bad teams that get drafted i think sometimes it's harder do you have a general philosophy for how to develop these guys well there's a lot of pieces that go into it and uh you know you have and every player is different you know wyatt johnson came in right from junior, didn't miss a step. We gave him those kind of nine games, see where he was going to be, and he wasn't overwhelmed, and boom, he just kept going, and here we are two years later.

Some other players, Thomas Harley. He spent some time up top, then had to go back down and play some games, and it was the best thing for him. So he had a different path. So it's really everybody's individual, but I'm a big, big believer in these guys have to spend some time. They've got to play hockey. You know, I don't want them playing six, seven, ten minutes in the lineup

at a young age. They're better off to be down in the American Hockey League. And the American Hockey League, as you guys know, you guys have lived it. We've all lived it. It's a tough league. You know, you throw these kids down there, and they've been the star players either in junior or college or whatever, and they think they're going to go in and there's going to be nothing to it.

Well, there's a bunch of older players down in the American Hockey League that they don't care where you're drafted. They don't care if you're the leading scorer because most of those guys down there were those guys too. And so you've got to find your way through it. And I'm a big believer it's important to go down, pay your dues in the American League. You're under less pressure. Find your way.

Find another niche. Not everybody's going to come up and be in the power play, so what are you going to become? Are you going to be somebody the coach can depend on with two minutes to go in the game? You've got to find that niche. You've got to find that in the American League because you can't find it in the NHL. Winning's too important in the NHL, and it's a fine line. So, you know, long-winded stories.

I'm a big believer these young players have to play, and that's where your development staff down in the minors, we've got a great Neil Graham and his staff do a great job down there. The Rich Peverleys and Ben Bishops who are working with these kids in junior and college are important. It's really the whole package comes into play. Each player is kind of individual

how you deal with them. As far as the defensive side, led by Miro Heskinen and I'll include Ottinger who maybe just didn't have the best season last year. What are you seeing from the back end? Actually, our back end, we've been solid.

We've got a good mixture. Miro, a lot of people don't really get to know who Miro is. We play down in Dallas and in different time zones and that, but he is one of the most rounded defensemen in the league. He can do it defensively. He can do it offensively. He can do it offensively. You can play him in any situation. He's got a... I really compare him

to me. I was fortunate in my Detroit days. I had Nick Lidstrom and then I worked with Scott Niedermeyer on some world championship teams. He's really a combination of those two. He's got Nick's kind of head and stick and he's got Niedermeyer's skating. That's a pretty good combination.

Our back end has been fine. Thomas Harley's taken a big step. Niels Lundqvist has taken a big step for us. These are younger guys. We just brought in Liam Bischel. He's a 6'7 defenseman. He's bringing us some physicality. And then, you know, with the Labushkins and the Dumbas

and really probably a forgotten man in all this is Esa Lindell. That's another person that people don't know, but there's not a better defensive defenseman in the NHL. Last year, we had him and Tanev. For the people in Toronto, they know what Tanev is. Well, Tanev is our younger version of Esa Lindell. It's the younger version of Tanev. They play the right way. They block shots.

They defend properly. And they're no fun to play against. And that's who our S. Lindell is for us. I can't imagine how fun it was having those two guys on the ice. Tanev makes a lot of people feel safe up here. So having him and Lindell on the ice at the same time must have been lovely. Tell us a little bit about Mason Marchment. You're in the Leafs hour of our show here. So tell us a little bit about Mason March. You're in the Leafs hour of our show here.

So tell us a little bit about Mason Marchment. He is, as someone who watched him closely, I feel like he's a chaotic player. Like there's a lot going on. There's limbs everywhere. Sometimes he shoots it in the net. Sometimes he punches someone in the face. What are your thoughts on Mason Marchment?

Well, he's become one of my favorite players. You know, I was fortunate I played with his dad going way back. So I have a connection there with his family and that, and that's way back to Winnipeg days, so aging myself a little bit. But he's really, you know, he's a great story, and he's talking about development and the patience. And unfortunately, sometimes the rules in a game don't allow that patience to happen, but he's a great story, you know, a guy that could hardly make a junior team,

ended up getting a chance to play in the American Hockey League and found his way and ends up going to the NHL and gets on the fourth line. And we're reaping the rewards of this. His skill is really, I don't know if people realize how skilled he is. He's got an unbelievable stick. He's got a long stick, got great hands, and he's really, he's starting to mature now. He's a young guy, he's just gotten married, and

he's a young guy that's figuring out the game. Him with Deshaun and Sagan were one of the best lines in the league until Sagan got hurt. They're still one of the best lines with those two and Logan Stanko playing. He's got a great feel for the game and he's got that other part that we all love.

He's got an edge to him. He can play the game any way you want. He brings us some physicality. He's got good size. And he's really a round-rounded player now. And the thing I'm most proud of him, he's got the discipline in him. He's competitive, and he's always had an edge to him,

and I don't want him to lose that edge, but he's learned he's competitive and he's always had an edge to him and i don't want to lose that edge but he's learned how to uh control that and it's really uh made his made him a very important player for us on our team hey jim we've been around the game long enough to know this time of year there tends to be a few distractions including the in-laws coming in and you know do i get my kid the lego set or not and not? And what is it like this time of year for a general manager? You have the trade freeze coming up Thursday at midnight. Is that the equivalent to the three of us now shopping at the last minute? Yeah, a little bit.

There's been some things going on. It's still pretty early, I think, for a lot to happen. You know, you've got too many teams still in it. And you look at the Eastern Conference, you know, with some teams slipping. And you look at the teams coming up, there's a lot of teams still in it. So, you know, if you're a team, you're in the middle of December. And to start selling off players and making trades, not easy to do right now. And then you've got the other teams that are in the playoffs,

and it's too early for them to start making moves because what if you get a bunch of injuries in January and February? How do you make those moves? So there's lots of talk going on, but I think it's just too early for a lot of things to happen. You know, the deadline's coming up here, like you said, on the 20th, and there might be some small moves, but I don't see – it's hard for teams on both sides of the equation to start 28, 30 games into it

to start making major moves. You know, if Jason keeps struggling for you, you can always just flip him for his brother, Nick. Yeah, any interest? No, I actually know them both very well. They live in Detroit in the summer times, and I spend some time in Detroit. I got grandkids back there, so I see them around.

And a great family. I really enjoy their family. But they are dedicated hockey players. And it's interesting because they're both so different. They're different type of players, but both very effective. Sorry, Sammy. I tried, bud. Yeah, it didn't work out.

Hey, Jim, really appreciate your time. We're looking forward to the game tonight. Best of luck moving forward, and thanks again for joining us. Yeah, thanks, guys, and all the best. You guys have spent some great time with your families, and everybody have a great Christmas, and all the best for the new year. You as well, Jim.

You too. Thanks so much. That is Jim Nail, general manager of the Dallas Stars, as we get set for a big game on the network here. Wednesday Night Hockey. David Amber. Hey, we should see if we can get the Leafs GM one day.

That was nice. I enjoyed hearing about them. Now I know why Jim Nail has had so much success. He's the world's nicest man. Yeah, he is. You call me, it's like, you know. I want to make a trade. I'm like,. You know, it's like, you call me, it's like, you know. But it's. Want to make a trade?

I'm like, yeah, Jimmy, sure. What do you need? What do you need? It is. Up yourself. There's two worlds because there's the media world of the Leafs and then there's everybody else. Like, they're figuring out ways to avoid us, the Leafs.

Very good at it. Right? Great. Jim's down there and he's like, I't know i don't know if you guys know but we got a pretty good defenseman in miro this guy's like the best defense in the league over here hey and we totally understand why you don't watch him because you know you don't but please right here if you'll watch he is amazing it's oh my god yeah he's amazing but jim's smart enough to understand that if we're if i'm going

to get some attention you know come on shows like ours it really should be you know if you're doing pr for some of those teams in the south that yeah like whatever you need that you know we'll have people on anytime you want love it try to sell the game okay uh we talked briefly about uh talking about the the Leaf blue line here. And I know they've managed some wins again, but it just seems over 60 minutes since that game, I guess, against New Jersey. Have we seen a little bit of slippage on the back end?

Yeah. In your opinion? I mean, I will say generally, Kip, what is the last really good game the leafs played like maybe it they didn't beat up on the ducks all that bad like they've had a pretty soft schedule i think you got to go back to about tampa bay a month ago or something so generally i don't think they've been electric you think defensively in particular it's been a little yeah i think and i can't recall craig bruby but it was a sound bite that that really stuck out with me and it was like we're we're not getting out as clean as as i'd like and i i think i've seen it now for about a week and a

half two weeks well i think a big part of that would be that you're playing one of your better puck moving defenseman on the offside of the ice with Oliver Ekman-Larsen. He's a guy that you bring in here to be able to do that, and he's been playing on his offside. Coach talked about that. Clip four. All right.

Yeah, well, for sure. Anybody that plays their offside is going to have a little more difficult time at times for moving the puck, you know? And you put a defenseman on his forehand and on his side, he's going to move the puck better. But I think he's okay. I think he's adjusted to it. And I think, like I said, he's played it in the past too.

It's not like the first time for him to do this. But I think you're going to have little ups and downs with it for sure. That's just human nature, playing on your offside. It's just more difficult. I think, for me, there's still so much upside to get to with Morgan Riley. I think if Morgan can find a way to get on a bit of a roll here, it would certainly help OEL. Yeah, it would.

I also think that you know they've they got a great showing from timmons in the early going and he's kind of been okay you know philippe myers is in all the time he's okay like you know has been hot and cold for me yeah yeah you too sammy i thought he was really great for a stretch of games after he got scratched for the hock and pod two games. And I thought it would maybe three or four games stretch after that, where he was really physical and really engaged. And that kind of went back down the other way for me a bit. It feels like they're going to have to manage that.

His quote really stands out to me where he said, like they talked to someone asked him about preserving his body. And he was like, I can't, I don't have that luxury. You know, like I give him where I am in the depth chart and the style I play. Like I have to play, like it's a playoff game every night and you can't have that luxury. Given where I am in the depth chart and the style I play, I have to play like it's a playoff game every night,

and you can't succeed that way. I don't blame him for doing it, and it's not a criticism. It's just an observation. He's not going to be able to be good playing a playoff game 82 times. All of Reckman Larson's second lowest ice time of the season was last game against Buffalo. He played 1741. He was a plus two.

He had an assist. To me, that's where's where ideally you have him because they've brought him in here and he's he's had some really big number games here like he's had a 25 a 24 few 24s first on the team and yeah like he he's played a lot of a lot of minutes and i think it's kind of like he had a really really hot start here where it was pretty you're pretty excited about what they paid him yeah and i think there's been kind of the other side of it you've seen and a lot of it comes with playing with riley offside maybe they'll get riley luke shen after all did you guys see oh you did yeah i sent it to us luke shen had six shots in three seconds the other day. I think last night. I saw that.

I haven't seen the highlight. Typo. I mean, it's got to be just a typo. Did I see the highlight? No, I didn't see the highlight. Does he actually get off six? He's just whack, whack, whack, whack, whack. All in the back end.

If you're the goalie, you're loving that. Yeah. Add them stats. They still lost. The Rangers still lost two zip. Here, I'll send you. I thought I sent you in the group. Six shots in three seconds.

I read it, and I assumed it was a table. No. I didn't even look. There you go. So offensive dynamo, Luke Shen. That's bad for the shooting percentage, isn't it? Oh, it's bad. But then, you know, you don't get a shot for a couple games.

You're like, I'm averaging two shots a game over the last three. Something tells me Luke Shen's shooting percentage isn't great. Probably not. There goes the bonus. Yeah. All right. So extend

the domination of the Dallas Stars here tonight. Yeah. I think you're going to see a good Leafs game tonight. A healthier Leafs team on the road. And a very good, powerful, first line look tonight. A healthier Leafs team on the road. And a very good, powerful first-line look tonight. Nothing fancy. Nothing fancy.

Under would be my bet. That'd be under. We'll talk about that in game time. You can't have a powerful line like that at the end here. I'm sorry. Well, you can if they're not being fancy. We need goals. They're dumping it in.

We're going to look for goals. All right. Plenty more still to come on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. You can if they're not being fancy. We need goals. They're dumping it in. We're going to look for goals. All right. Plenty more still to come on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Our thanks to Jim Nill, general manager of the Dallas Stars. From one to another, we're going to welcome in Bill Guerin, general manager of the Minnesota Wild, as he also gets ready for the Four Nations Tournament. We'll get into that and more when we return.

Don't go away.