Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Time For Change Behind the Bench?

Episode Date: November 24, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' loss to the Montreal Canadiens over the weekend. They get into the second-period collapse, the talent disparity between the two teams, Dakota Mermis's fight, and what the team's ceiling is when fully healthy. Then, they evaluate Craig Berube's lineup decisions through a quarter of the season and whether the Leafs could benefit from a coaching change. Later, the guys go through the Leafs' potential trade options if they decide to sell at the deadline and discuss the flawed way they handle injury information.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Right back at it on the real Kipper and Boren show. Nick Kipperyl's, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee, Andrew Adams, and Jen Rollnick. Double A. See, this is why I have a lineup. This is why it's important. because we got new name. Nailed it.

For the next two hours. Sammy, you okay? Yeah, fine. Battling and all? Yeah, fighting it a bit. Fighting it a bit? Yeah, definitely. I forgot.

There's a Washington Capitol's jersey. I forgot to even do it for the Leafs. Don't worry about it. We're good. We're good. Let's be a Capitol show today. Wow, that's nice. That's a different tone.

That's a different tone, even though we are our Leaf Edition hour of the program. We're alive on Sportsnet 360, sports net 590 the fan in Toronto and streaming always on sports net plus also available at your convenience Spotify Apple Podcasts and YouTube the Montreal Canadians defeat the Toronto Maple Leafs Saturday night they end a five game skid they got some they got some offense out of Dobson anderson they scored twice and that led to a mercy pull of Joseph Wall Couldn't have been the easiest game

I think Sammy Did you go on your leaf Hawk after the game? Yeah, every game We do every single game Not always Well, sometimes you get guest appearances During the World Series we did every single

We weren't doing every single game But yeah, I mean It's just It's grim There's no other way to put it right now, fellas Let's just start let's say like jb you go first yeah find something for me yeah find a silver lining for me here i'm full of silver linings today pal you're gonna fight with me all day long ah you know it was a it was a bad

game there's no way to look at that game and pull a positive out of that particular one maybe a good first period i thought two nothing was they were okay generous to the first period yeah i mean you know they end up getting a couple and i i know that there's some complaints from the coach about the team kind of fold intent after they did go down. And there's lots to say about that for sure. But I, you know, I thought they came out and were more physical than they had been in a lot of games this year. And I, the Leafs, the Leafs in Montreal was too.

Give me some names. I mean, Joshua ran into people not very hard or very effectively. Bobby McMahon ran into some people. Benoit had a good hit at one point. You know, I just thought they finished checks and they was at least competitive hockey for the first 10 minutes. And then what happened in the second? That is a really depressing question.

I don't know. The coach doesn't know. They sounds like they weren't able to handle the adversity of being down two goals. What do you think happened? Yeah, they just, I think whatever they brought minimal for me emotionally, completely disappeared by the second period. They had just lack of passion and emotion for me in that second period. it just stopped so whatever you saw out of you know Joshua that's not a great example Joshua I regret saying that name

I didn't get it yeah um in terms of that that second period at all like outshot 16 to one and to have the only one that show up at that particular time is your goalie and you felt so bad for him that you needed to to get him out of there um that to me is a low point of their season so far was that second period yeah i mean and there's been other moments where it's looked like that but yeah yeah what did you see between the first and the second sammy what i've seen all year i think that game followed a pretty similar script that they've had the whole season nowhere you know they have a okay goodish start where maybe they fall down a goal or something and then they go into the second period and they look completely out of depth the other team skate

circles around them for and then they go down even more than they have a fake come back in the third period and then we come in here and do a show it felt very very very eerily similar to a lot of the games i've watched but that game specifically that second period was by far their worst of this of the year yeah it was it was they got run off the rink it was not close wildly out talented and i tweeted as much and some people didn't like that but boy listen the leaps are without a ton of very good hockey players and that certainly influences it but watching that third goal the Slavkovsky

delayed downloaded Demadov back to Dobson wires it in the far post was a beautiful goal and not one we see the Leafs even capable of putting together so that was a depressing moment if you're a Leaves fan because you've been the more talented team for the past seven years or whatever

I think a way to put it for me is that one team is at the start and one team is at the end where the habs are at the start of their upswing. Cycle, whatever you want to call it. They've had, they've been bad, they've gotten picks.

They've made their picks. It's cool. Sammy? Yes. And the Leafs are at the end where they've used all their picks on you, on guys who are going to be expiring, guys like Lott, and all that stuff. They're just teams heading in different directions. Montreal's window is starting to open.

Yes. And Toronto's has started to close. Now I will say, that's what it felt like. Typically, I agree. I agree. I felt that too. Typically, this sort of thing starts to happen. And good teams don't just go away.

You know, like they typically you're able to get some sort of push. These are veteran guys. These are good players. It's impossible to look at that game and not be like, God, they missed their top guys. They missed Matthews. They miss Nyes. They missed Tanev. They missed Carlo.

To start the season, though, they had them and they still weren't that good. I know. And so I do feel like the reason I feel like this, this team that's in last in Eastern Conference is not trash. is it felt like you had sort of the 10-15 game okay let's see what we are and it was discombobulated and never got it sorted and then they got hurt before they had a chance to get it sorted not saying they're great

I'm just saying this team and I just was writing out the lineup a fully healthy least lineup they're not the worst team in the Eastern Conference they're just not and whatever we've seen up until this point the difference between them and first place is what five points

yeah the problem is you got to climb a zillion teams and the three points the whole conference it's not helping for sure but my silver lining on all of this is that i don't know who's who's good in that division right and that's my sad that we i'm now taking it out of the leaf's hands now yeah and i'm looking around going boys just string three or four or five good games together here and get yourself back into the mushy middle totally and that's that's how these standings are going to go like you go on a four game winning streak and all of a sudden you're in it again unfortunately and i think this will be sam's take they don't look like a team capable of doing that right now i don't think i mean it'd be great

if they could put together four or five wins in a row but they're the worst road team in the league and they are about to go on a four game five game road trip where they're still not sure if matthews and nize and why are going to play you're still missing carlo you're still missing Tanev for however long like you know Stolars a ways away hasn't skated after being not that seriously injured Okay I just let's hold off on the injuries for now

For sure I'm just saying that like There is a world where they find their way back into this But this next week and a half Could kill their season Like they need to find a way to come out of this Above 500 or at 500 Because if they lose four more in a row when they go out on these games in the road

I think if they lose four in a row they fired the coach maybe but like if they fire the coach is that going to bring you back from even further in last place like this is the thing with digging a hole is you're never guaranteed to get healthy at the right time to put it together

it may just not come in time that's I mean I'm worried that they've built that they've dug too much of a hole let's go let's go to the head coach Craig Barrowby on how you turn this around well right off the first draw is it we've got an easy breakout we don't want well i mean it's you know obviously getting some people back in the lineup but you know that that definitely is going to help but until we decide to

you know dig in and play the right way for 60 minutes on a consistent basis it's going to be hard to pull yourself out on anything yeah i mean it's the same kind of message right it's been the same message yeah yeah play harder dig in yeah play harder dig in yeah play the right way. It's funny that I was thinking about these like kind of coaches like Craig Perubi and it doesn't that you know when you just beat that message in and it's not working it's really I think it's hard as a player because you're like I'm trying you know like I'm not going out there and mailing it in but you look at him you look at like Adam

Foot is that kind of guy in Vancouver and they're struggling like it I'm sure it is frustrating for guys. I would say this to you guys. guys i think i mean we do a show about it we play as clips every day i think there's days that we're frustrated by it and we don't even have to go anywhere near the hockey team we just talk about it and listen to these clips but sometimes i feel like myself actually like physically being annoyed by it yeah where it's like it's not just harder like that's they've been that doesn't work they never have the puck it's not an effort it's just they don't play with it yeah so

Any Brewery on progress? I think the best clip here is clip six and it's just about him talking about what you alluded to off the top. So clip six. Well, what I've seen a few times this year is when, you know, we get down a couple goals at times.

You know, this happened in the second period where, you know, we go out there and we just, we don't play with any urgency or any confidence in the second period. who get down a couple of roads. And it's like, I don't, that's an excuse all day long for me. This is a veteran hockey team. It's unexcusable and it's on me too.

It's, you know, it's on all of us. And, you know, with a veteran team like that, that shouldn't happen. Yeah, the other problem I have with the Leafs right now is, is to Craig's point here, like identifying, like playing with urgency. you got to look different when you play with urgency, right? You just can't look like you played like the last 15 minutes. That's the part that changes is that your behavior is changing with the urgency part. And that's not happening.

The other part I have is, you know, we're going to talk about Mervis's fight and the things that I liked about it. or even Joshua at the end of the game it's like did you like that though I hated that I hated it because it wasn't at the start of the game there was nothing to it that was like the like not a bluff but like I don't want to get in trouble for being soft read the tea leaves buddy it's too late for that type of behavior you want to get in the face of of you know jack I and his brother at the beginning of the game.

And Kip, they did. Craig Cuthbert thought it was happening. Or Chris Cuthbert, I'm sorry. They lined up against each other. And he goes, oh, they're having a chat. It was first period. It was, no, it was, they were down three zip. Oh, was it at that point?

They just scored to make a three-nothing. You're right, you're right. They went to the low shot of them jawing. And I was like, okay, he's going to try to turn it around for the boys. Even Murmiss. Like, buddy, you got to have it in your mind before the game, the night before they game. pre-game skate the meal when you put your head on the pillow for a nap at 2 p.m. that afternoon that you may be in that position to do that tonight you listen as a fighter as a guy that's done it

mermis is capable i've known that like you we've known that since you came out of junior he's he's capable maybe part of the reason why you haven't had a full-time job is because you don't know that you're capable of doing that or when to do it, how to do it. But why not think about doing that right at the start of the game? You got two willing guys in the Jack-Eye brothers, find them and set the tone. But it's too late. You sleep, you're down to nothing, you get embarrassed in the second, and then where are you guys? Saving face to go back to the dress room, to shower,

with your teammates to say, I did it? I fought. It was 4-0-0 when he fought? It was in the third period. I don't know. So it would have been 4-2. No, it was 4-1. They got the extra.

They scored on the power play. I don't think, I think, Burmiss, I don't think that was a premeditated situation. I think that was one where they're both in. But he started making a premeditated then. But yeah, but I mean, his guy's like, start. His career high and penalty minutes at any level is 50.

You're not a fighter. Then you know what? Then find one. I'm going to give him credit first step. If Dakota Mermis has got to be the guy that's got to go in there and step to the... Why? Why? Why can't Dakota Joshua do? Because there's no one else and there's an opportunity for you, Sam?

I disagree. Okay? No, I'm sorry. But find somebody. If it's not him, if he's a minor leaguer that does it once every... Yeah. What, two months? There's a reason why you were in the minors. I think there's two points here. And one of them is the point you're making, which is no one, no lease fan watched Dakota Mermis stand there and trade bombs with Jack Eye and went,

Ah, too late. Everyone is like, thank you. Yes. I think that. We're down to thank you. Yes. At any point in any game. Your point, though, I think is valid too.

I'm trying to win the game. Can you bring me a guy who recognizes this is part of what he's here to do that can play? Like, who is it? Was it Sabarin on Tampa Bay who took the four game suspension in preseason? And Tampa was like, awesome. Come on up here. We'll keep you up while you serve it. We'll get you in again.

We appreciate it. They're screaming for that. I'm not hanging that on Mermis, though. My point is if you need him to be your emotional, if you need Dakota Murmiss to set the tone emotionally for you, you're in a tough spot. Let's hear, can we hear Dakota? No, let's hear it.

Yeah, clip one. Mermis on his fight. Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, you want to have some pushback. You know, you're down at D, obviously, so that makes it hard maybe earlier in the game for something like that to happen. But he's, you know, obviously he's in his first game. And, you know, we know those guys, his brothers are, what they want to do. He comes to the net.

just trying to have some pushback, spark something, you know, late in the game. Obviously, they were able to get one and, you know, you just see what happens from there. But just trying to hold your ground and, you know, you don't give an inch. I'm okay with that all that. I'm just, I'm seeing a team starving for that. I'm seeing a fan base starving for that. Try to include it in whatever you do when it matters. That's my whole point.

And as far as Joshua goes, Like, I've seen enough, but I've seen enough. Like, it's, it's not working. It's not working. You're not doing what you need to do. You're 6'3. You can set a presence. He's, it's more on him than it is Murmiss.

I'm just using, I'm just using Murmiss as an example of, hey, buddy, if, if you actually could bring that passion to me twice a week, you're not buried in the minors. Yeah, I get your point. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. I'm not saying you have to come in. save them but you'd be a hard guy to get out of this lineup right now i'd say he's becoming a hard

guy to get out of the lineup i said i told you i liked them last week i said he's better than half the guys that i've seen so far on that blue line yeah i got no problem with him at all and if he could start reading the tea leaves on when and how and i he'd stay yeah no it would certainly wouldn't hurt him i mean so i wrote out my roster before the game when they're hell for the show when they're healthy here. Nyes, Matthews, Robertson, McMan, Tavares, Nealander,

Laurence Lawton Cowan, Joshua Waugh, Yarncrock. You know, that doesn't include Domi or Micelli. Those guys are both out, blazes out, Quillan is out. You know, Riley, Tannaev, McKay, Benwa, O'EL, Carlo,

Mirmus and Stetcher are there. That's not a 16th place team, guys. So I don't know if they're ever going to have a chance to figure out. I know they stunk when they were healthy at the start of the year. I saw that too. I'm not sure.

It may be a 16th place team. Honestly I find that hard to believe Machelli was a healthy scratch for a Utah team Yeah I got him as a scratch in the line If I just gave you

So okay Joshua came for a fourth round pick Vancouver gave him away Yeah Was it a fourth or a third Fourth? I think it was a third maybe Anyways continue

Yeah It's a bad thing So that's two third In Nikwa Who you know, maybe he's capable of a third line shut down. He's certainly not a top two centermen. We know, okay, granted, maybe he can,

but this was, they needed an identity line. And that's the two guys that you targeted, Joshua and Mitelli. Yeah, it's hurting bad. It's really hurting. And three and a half mill poppy, you know, Zippo out of them. Zippo.

Zippo. Can't score, can't make plays. can't fight, can intimidate. That was a big part of your DNA switch. And I'm sorry, Brad, so far in 20 games, you're 0 for two with these guys. I mean, they must be really disappointed with the Joshua thing. What kills me is it reminds me of when Trent Frederick said, like, I only have one goal so I can't fight who's going to fight a guy with one goal.

And I think everyone around him is going, we don't care. You know, like someone will fight. Florian Jack guy found a fight last game. He's got one game. So, you know, for Joshua, it's like, you've got to find a way to contribute. And what I don't get is for these guys who are struggling to find a purpose

and it's not working, whatever, it's such an easy thing to go out there and be the physical guy and agitate and have some contribution outside of scoring. Kip, you know that. And so I don't get why they don't get it. Because they don't want to. Saturday night.

You got their money. The stars of Saturday night, me who the two stars were Saturday night? The Leafs? Or in the game? In the game. It's the Jackies. The brothers.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That's. That's. Saturday night, hockey night in Canada. The brothers. I won't be doing my job on this show.

If I sit here and let us have a show that isn't about their hockey team was so much better than Toronto's and it wasn't about who punched each other harder or who did more agitating. No. That team could move the puck. They had demon who could skate. They made passes. The Leeds couldn't play hockey. But the brothers brought a presence.

They brought dessert to a dinner that they finished. They bring a presence and don't ever underestimate what the brothers do to make the skill feel a little better, a little calmer, give you more room. It's a tone. The Leaves don't have a tone. If you put the Jack guys on the Leafs. they're no better. No, they are better.

They might be worse. They are better. Florian Jack guys are going to move the needle. If they make one of your stars feel a little better, a little braver, a little taller, knowing that someone's got their back, they play a little differently. They do. And so maybe right now. And they at least don't even have one guy. William Nylander is top 10 in NHL scoring. And I know he didn't like his game on Saturday night.

He's not changing. Did you? No, not really. But he ended up with a goal and assist. But he's not afraid. And John Tavares isn't afraid. I don't know who you're going to get more out of on the sleeve team. I don't think there's times where I see they're less than capable of going in there and fighting a little

harder or stirring it up. It's just, okay? Surely you don't identify that as the key reason they lost that game. Go ask Austin Matthews about Ryan Reeves and how it made him feel. Okay, that's all you need to know. That's all fine. But you didn't watch that game on Saturday and go, boy, that team's tougher than that team. That's why it's 5.5.1.

I did. I did. I did. I did. I did. I see a team that has a little bit more moxie. And that was the number one reason they beat Toronto on Saturday night. No, there's an abundance of reasons, but I'm just giving you one.

Yeah. Listen, I see that too, that they don't have guys willing to do it. I thought Pizzetta was going to be that. I thought they had someone who just wanted to be this call up guy. it doesn't I don't know he's been hurt and he's not even getting a chance Quillan gets scratched hold on one more thing yeah this whole lack of merit with Barubi and who he scratches and who he plays is killing me

it's killing you and a lot of other people Jacob Quillan not playing that game after being awesome in his couple games not fair domi's 15 minutes but like noticeably good did the things he was asked to do noticeably good did the things the coach wants to do Did the direct things. Did all the things we're told matters. Correct.

Domi gets his 15 minutes. He's out there in the last few minutes as they chase the game. Not sure why. Joshua continues to be out there and play his minutes. How is this guy not watching a game from the press box? Is there any accountability or is it just we don't want to look bad for the guys we've paid? So we play him. Yeah.

I think your last point has to be the one that needs to be answered. I don't know. it does make sense. Right? They're giving these guys every chance to figure it out because they bet on them at the start of the year. Yeah, like not only did, you know, they take out Quillen, who I think everybody thought was doing a great job for them, like you said. And, you know, I think Joshua's been in the crosshairs of a lot of Leaf fans. Then not only does he, like, stay in the lineup, he gets a promotion to the second line. Like, it's not only does he, like, stay in there.

He gets more ice time. And they're trying to move things around and they got this constant blender going, whatever. Like, so it's almost rewarding. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. I think other guys see that and go,

okay. What am I doing here? You see the yarn crock quotes today? Not that they, I know we're not too worried about Calli Yarncroke, but he, his comments were just, I thought I had a good start to the year. And then I was out.

Then I was back in and it was okay. And then I was out and now I'm in again. Like he was like, he didn't say anything critical of the team, but he was explaining his year so far. And he's like, I'm trying. I don't know, I get put in, I don't know when or why,

and sometimes I'm 19 minutes, sometimes I'm crashed. I can't imagine him, Max, Cowan, there's a number of them that come to the rink, not knowing, just not knowing. Am I on the first line or am I eating popcorn? Literally no idea. And I can tell you, and you've lived it too, it's not easy. No, it's a mind, you know what?

Yeah. and I get it you're a pro just when you're called upon do your best when you're not called upon wait for your opportunity that's all part of trying to be a pro but yeah doesn't always work out well for you I had a stretch where I played 10 games over like three months in the American league and when I got in I got to play with like Kyle Opozo and like you know those type of guys and it's like didn't go great you know when you get back in it's like I you know it's so hard what I skated with you what happened you're good because you should have been a contender so I needed your moxie I think one of the I mean the biggest question right now is just

is the coach it's like the number one thing that people are talking about does it change anything if he's different if it's someone else I'm asking sincerely not as a sarcastic I personally believe no I believe he's he's not going anywhere

but I don't believe that he's got unlimited bank to have periods like the second period in Montreal. Right. Or it's like they would like him to figure it out. Even if they're fighting like cats and dogs to get into a playoff spot, I believe Craig Bruy is going to be the guy behind the bench. But you start getting caved in like that.

All bets are off for me. Like there's sometimes where. you have to make a change just for the sake of making a change. You just cannot keep going on with games like Saturday night in the second period and then turn around and your coach saying, you know, we got to try harder, you know, we got to dig in the right way. Like that won't fly for 60 more games. I think a lot hinges on this trip here.

And, you know, I started the show we talked about how, you know, you can't make playoffs, the old golf analogy, you know, you can't win the tournament on Thursday, but you can lose it. You know, the Leafs are getting close to you can't win, you can't make playoffs, but you can miss them in the first little bit here. And so I think the pressure is on this trip

where it's like you got five games now. I believe four of them are teams out of a playoff spot. Pittsburgh, Columbus, Detroit. No, it is starts on Wednesday in Columbus. Washington Friday Pitt and then in Florida in Carolina

Right Yeah that's I mean The last two are hard That's fork in the road Yeah It is So basically those last two

Being so hard You're talking about Columbus Washington Pittsburgh But you know I know they're good teams The way But this is when you're last

Sam when you're a bad team You look at every team And go oh They're all right They're not good teams They're not good teams But the least are worse The least are the

They're literally in the standings, worse than every single one of those teams. Yes. Because they can't be below anybody else in the East because they're last. If you believe, though, that they're not this team. And I believe that they're not the 16th best team in the East. You should be able to make some hay here. I know they're-

13th, 12th? You feel better at 12th? They're a playoff team. They're a playoff team when healthy. I can't see it right now. Yeah. I hope you're right about the Oilers at one year when me and Kipperboe said no shot. And they came back.

They were five and 12. I'm not confident that the Leafs are going to get it sorted out, like health-wise. I'm not, if they never get fully healthy, it's not going to happen. And if you're so fragile that a couple injuries makes you miss playoffs, you're not that good, so it probably doesn't matter. So I am worried about that. I personally do think that a different coach would move the needle. You think Peter DeBore could turn around this thing right now?

And to be clear, it's not because I think Ruby can't coach a team to success. He's won a cup recently. Yeah, and the least got the furthest they literally have ever gotten in this era with him behind the badge. I do not think he's a bad coach. I do think a different coach for this group would be great. I think, you know, the, a new voice and a new strategy, this game plan, not working here for this team. And I don't care how hard you press the try harder button. It's not going to work.

Would you do that right now if you were Brad Tray-Reed- If I was a soulless, you know, I had no. You're in charge, buddy. No personal whatever. You're in charge. In turn, this is a computer game. Yes, I would. But I understand the lot more goes into it, right? There's finances.

He's owed millions and millions of dollars. Don't even blink at that. And there's the chance. This is the Toronto Maple Leafs, the richest hockey organization on the planet. If they think that that will get them in the playoffs, it's like a cup of coffee being spilled. But I do think that if you're a Ruby, you go,

last year we won the Atlantic. Second round, this year, my team is decimated with injuries. And my goalies have been stinky and I'm fired. And not around. Like, do I get, I get, I am tempted to say, let him get healthy, see how it looks after that. It's probably the attack I would take. But you let him get healthy, see how it goes. We just said, this time next week, you know, if they drop the next four, six.

But they should be healthy, Kip. Wednesday, these guys should be back. All right. Matthew skated. Nye skated. Let's take a break and then come back. We'll go to break and we'll get into that in terms of the updates on the players

and the continuation of, I don't know, secrecy around players. It's one thing to see a guy go down. Yeah. And it's another one to go, where did he get hurt? Was he abducted by an alien spaceship? Can we get some details? Plenty more.

On the real Kipperman Born Show, Leaf Edition, as we discuss injuries and how they're reported right after the break. Hey, it's Alish Forafar. And I'm Justin Cuthbert. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the fan free game. 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet, SportsSat 590, the fan,

and wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back to the program. Nick Kiprios, Justin Boren. Sammy McKee. Uplifting break conversations with real Kippert and board. How many guys did we trade in the break? Oh, well,

there's a point where you would have to conceivably make the pivot, right? Like it's... Where is the pivot? Tell me where the pivot is. If they come back 0 and 5 on this trip and they're 9 and 15, what do you plan for outside of let's just kind of retool here

and take a swing it next year? Kipper, your favorite website, Monipok yesterday, said that the least playoff chances are now lower than their first overall pick chances. You know, if I, if I, you're going to have a highlight this year will be the look on your faces when I told you that the odds were at 11 and you guys looked at me and said, no way.

To be clear, every other place in the internet wasn't even close to that. So I'm not saying, but I've always been a big money pocketer. But, but yes, they're the ones that are most up to date, though. So, Athletic lacks a few games here and there. Can we just go down the soft sell road for one second? Yeah, of course. We should. All rightman Larson is going to get you a prize right now.

He's the best player in the team. So he was not trading him. I mean, what is a prize? A pick, a first round pick, potentially. Sure. I mean, they, I'm telling you, Carlo's not that far off. I know he's struggled this year. Carlo isn't that far off from getting one or two good pieces.

Done. Done. I'm telling you. He's young. He's a right-handed D. He can munch minutes. He's absolutely getting you first. And he's cheap.

He's under $4 million because Boston's picking up a portion of his salary. This year and next? And teams get him for this year's playoff and next year's playoff. So there's value in these guys. McMan's UF. What is a... What is waving the white flag on that? That has to come.

come at March guys has to come at March yeah there's just no world where this team who's started the year saying we're all in is going to make a you know early december pivot to throw it throw everyone overboard and you know load up for next year I agree they're not doing this now but if they still reek getting close to the trade deadline I hope to God they're listening on all right Mars and Carlo all these guys 100% if you're at a point you're like we're not doing what Boston did last year how many shows we have to do between now and then I'm not worried about now and then. I'm worried about after then.

Yeah, we get a month off, basically. Like, I mean, we'll be doing it out, probably do shows about the Olympics and talk about that. So after the trade deadline, it's really a gram of this thing. Outside of their play. Okay. Is it legitimate to have a beef with the Toronto Maple Leafs the way they handle injuries?

Oh, yes. I mean. Or are they just like any other team? No. Upper lower body, scram beat it. We're not giving you any more information. I don't. love to take credit for a lot of things but i mean we've been talking about this for a year

and a half and now it seems like it really is starting to piss everybody else off it feels nice that it's not just me that it pisses people off but patrilli's writing about it seagulls been writing about it's it's in the yeah the ether now yeah people are talking about it's a very real thing that you know you talk about uh doc on montreal took a puck to the foot and they said a foot's broken out four to six weeks uh lawton took a puck to the foot lower body week to week two week didn't see him for like six weeks we had no idea the whole time where we're at why we're at this whatever and now with all these guys it's it's no every guy is a complete mystery like i mean we didn't who is this helping who is it helping who's it for the players i don't know

we've had this conversation already once i know where it's like where is the benefit who's benefiting by by withholding such information The Leafs, Craig Bruby, the doctors. I don't know. I don't know where it gets lost. Stolars is really weird. Like the weirdest. Like he left the game, pulled himself maybe we thought. And then Craig had reported in his scrums, I think the following day,

we may see him back as early as tomorrow. No, he said it's not that big a deal. He should be back. This week, kind of. Yeah, all right. Not that big a deal. Not that big of a deal. That was, it was that two weeks ago?

Cluster two weeks ago. That was in Boston. Tuesday night in Boston. He's still not been on the ice. No, he's not been on the ice. And so I also like, we didn't see Carlo get hurt. He just kind of went away. He just disappeared.

Yeah. And who else? Wa. Wa. We didn't see get hurt. Nyes took part in morning skate. They tweeted pictures of him heading into the rink and then he just doesn't play. So let's, let's listen.

Do you want to do that? We got stuff on all these guys. Okay, let's go to Bruby, Clip Nine on Carlo and Stolars. No, he did not get it back on the ice today. Has Anthony skated? Nope. He's a ways away. So Stolars is a ways away.

A ways away. Nope. Ways away. I mean, can you play that again, Andrew, if you don't mind? Just the end up? No, he did not get it back on the ice today. Has Anthony skated? Nope.

He's a way, he's a way. I mean, you don't like to read a lot into this? He sounds frustrated and pissed. That's what I mean. Like he's had it. Brube's had it up to here too on this. I'm sure he's being told to talk like that. I'm sure he's not allowed to say anything.

I'm sure he'd like to say more. But for him, it would be so much easier just to go out and be like, hey, he's going to be out for five. No, how about this? No update. That's it. No update. No, but then you get that answer to the same question the next day.

Then no update again. But what you can't do is throw in the maybes and, you know, all the rest of it or even like week to week. But like, don't even throw in, we just leave it. But for a goalie, like, wouldn't it be fine to be like a bit of an oblique strain or something? He's just waiting for the pain to, you know. Yeah, that would probably be better, but you're not getting that. Do you have any idea what it is? okay let's just no i don't for the record yeah so we're gonna do what we do the most often

they're not on this show for the last five years we're gonna speculate okay okay like for brooby on stolars about 10 12 days ago to come out and say yeah shouldn't be that big of a deal and you know maybe he could skate soon or tomorrow or whatever he said at that time suggests that he he he it isn't a definitive of physical broken wrist uh hip flexor something that you know is going to get healed with a certain amount of time that you can speculate but to go to go from that 12 days ago to today where he said nope nope ways away can only suggest one thing to me

that Solars wakes up and he doesn't feel well right? I don't feel well so did he get bumped in the head is he dealing with some sort of you know concussion like symptoms that's me speculating now

my expert opinion of what this could be I mean that tracks that to me the only other thing is muscle related somehow some way oblique groin no no even those are you know you're gonna have something yeah you don't come out and think that a guy's gonna skate the next day or or it's not that far off and then 12 days later he's far off yeah i don't know i mean that's that's my best educated guess should we check in with matthews nize and nick waugh yeah interest there yeah Let's do it. Clip eight, please. Close.

You know, let's, I'd say Matthews, Nyes, Wa, are close. Okay. So I'll probably know tomorrow if they're available Wednesday. Okay. I just, I just, I go back to. I'd like them to play. I go to, is that a lot to ask? No.

Yeah, they need to play. Let's just hope he's accurate and you can see one or two of them by Wednesday. If it's close enough that they're saying close and your season is on a tipping point here. You're treating it like a playoff series? Potentially you should have the captain in the lineup. Is that fair to say or no? Is that insincere? Well, I think you mean insensitive?

Correct. I don't know. I don't know. They very well could be like, look, if we put him back in and he reaggravates his injury, you guys are going to be all over us but i get what you're saying of like if you're close kind of the way things are going could use you yeah can you give us 15 we won't put you on the pk i don't know i get the point would like to i would like to see all three on wednesday a lot is is austin and other players now that are destined for the olympics now factoring in

that i get that a ton boys i mean i get a lot of really stupid dm from a lot of people who are pissed off about the least right now. Don't, let me tell you. But at the top of the list is this guy's saving it for the Olympics. I get that so much. And it could be stupid, but like, I don't know. He missed nine games last year. And then with what we thought was a recurring incident, six games,

we had talked well in advance last season around this time on whether or not he should participate in Four Nations tournament. yeah okay we he went anyways yep did it factor in how he felt at the end of the year i don't know but no we don't we don't but it didn't stop us from wondering never stops us from wondering anytime it doesn't go well it's going to be like what could you've done differently but not not every superstar you know had such off-ice issues or question marks like Austin did last year. Right?

He was the highest profile without a doubt. But are we going to start experience the same thing here? You know, I'm torn on all that, right? Like Matthew Kachuk was the absolute most injured guy who couldn't even play parts of that tournament and he pushed himself to the limit and then he won the cup. And he was wrong. Yeah, that's fine. And they were wrong for playing them.

And they were, it was just complete miscalculation because he didn't even factor in the last game played like four minutes while you left a Kyle Connor healthy guy up in the stands right lose the game and tell me how how that would have gone up or or Florida found a way to to lose in the playoffs and then think about the conversation on Matthew Kachuk playing hurt winning years all but I'm such a huge advocate for best on best hockey and us going back to the Olympics and having that so I can't sit here and talk about both sides my memory and say Matthews is a proud American he wants to play for America he shouldn't do it like if he wants to play he's going to play and he should play he's been the face of a one of the faces of the

league for 10 years he's American for you they ain't paying them 13 million bucks a year get it I get it but like first priority is the Toronto Maple Leaf and they look great they look great like I mean if you're a cynic and he's looking at his chances of winning a big prize to put on his resume at the end of his career one of them's a lot better chance the olympics not the cup but i think he's going to play in the olympics unless he's severely injured yeah he is going to play isn't he the captain yeah he's america's captain have they they're doing their jersey today they are i think so i saw a peep blackburn tweeting about it today is it out i don't think it's out yet but he he tweeted one of their old like u.s can have some great jerseys this is going to dictate our

never been a fan not going to be a lot you never been a fan They've had exactly zero good jerseys. Oh, my God. Can we nitpick some more? Yes. Okay. Let's go, baby. Here's one.

Okay. They play Saturday. They don't play against Wednesday. Clemyss. Yeah, they don't play until Wednesday. Got home Saturday. Could they not practice today, full practice? No.

I don't know. Like every team's screaming, they don't have enough time to practice. I think Saturday to Wednesday would have been a great day to go. uh boys let's let's close that gap up when when we pass when our defense passed to our forwards let's close the gap a little bit let's practice that today you don't have to exhaust guys in a practice a lot of it can be positioning talking you can work through in a power play practice where you know the guys just pass it around against you know guys of their sticks over or whatever they're they're bad in all those categories

they're special teams guys brutal goals against brutal Do you have a clip? Why they didn't practice? Yeah, we do. Clip seven, please, Andrew. Well, there's been a lot of guys with playing a lot of minutes lately, injuries, all that. A little extra mental and physical rest for some guys and other guys. Just kind of a more of a reset day for those guys, work on some things that we wanted them to work on with the development staff.

I just know personally, go ahead. Do you think that's his decision? I don't know. Yes, I do. You think it's the coach's decision? I think ultimately, I know it's the coach's decision. Now, whether the training staff is saying these guys are dying, you can't play John DeVarro's 2240.

Your coach can still say, well, he's going on the ice. They did have this. You look like you're playing 2240 on Saturday night. Sports science. I don't know what's left to their sports science. A few of them, I think, packed up and left for Pittsburgh. Yeah. Right?

So I don't think there's a department now hammering on Craig Brew. be to back them off today. Yeah. So I did go. Yeah. Yeah. The guy I know that was closest to that whole movement is gone. Yeah.

I think it's bad, really bad look to not have a full part. I think it's bad too. I do. You know, like as much as since Matthews has been out, Tavares is averaging 2240, which is a. Poor guy. Indictment. Poor guy.

No, it's an indictment of your team and that's more than he should be playing at his age. I feel bad for it. him like the whole world's on his shoulders right now to carry the offense and he looked like it at this point he looked like it on saturday night but the Suzuki matchup was not a pretty one for that still think that this is a day where you say so i had a bad year uh one year and i just wanted to be away from the rank all the time every break i could get i just was burnt out whatever sometimes like you got to get out there and grind through it and when you play better you'll feel better and you just it comes it comes from playing bad

You got to find a way to get better. I don't know. I would have like to see them out there today. But the thing is, they're not changing their systems. Nobles change in their systems. They're not. Even a power play practice. Yes.

I take a power play practice. Bring all your stars and just say, like, I don't even care. Come out in running shoes. I don't care. That was a turning point in the game on Saturday night where they were great for the first 10 minutes, outshot them, outchance them, were held the puck. They get the power play after the scrum in front of the net. and they just have this lifeless, emotionless, power play, saps them, no chances.

They go down the other way. And hey, why didn't they challenge? Oh, yeah, I haven't talked about that. How do you not challenge that? Insane non-challenged. I think what happens to is there are definitive challenges when the video guys come into their ear. Yeah, definitely offside. And say, yes.

Offside. Okay? Definitely. this one they said 50-50 and at that point I think they're down to nothing no it was the first goal okay down one nothing mid through the way through the first they're down yeah and he doesn't want to take a 50-50 chance to go down to nothing off of that which they did immediately after anyways yeah that's what I think happened well definitely there was a look on there was a look on the heat on this Barubi saying, boys, give me something more

or else I'm passing. And I think he chose to pass. I wonder if his... But then the one earlier in the year where there was no contact at all and they didn't and they did challenge it. I wonder if the relationship is different to the video staff and Sheldon

where they were comfortable saying, talking to Sheldon more openly about, you know, here's my opinion, here's what you should do. Maybe with Perubi, it's less. They seem to be having a tough year too. Tougher. The video room...

They were the best to leave. They're the talk of the town. Oh my gosh. never miss. Lifetime contracts. But I think it is tougher when, you know, maybe you don't have as much support or it hasn't gone as well. And I don't know at all, but like there's no, to me, that's like the guy is going

into your goaltender. Yes, he hits your D, but he spins out because he's bringing himself into your goaltender who's limited on a massive goal. That to me was, you got to challenge that one. Well, let's listen to the coach. We have about a minute. So let's listen to it. Clip two, please.

Well, it was a tough one. Like, he kind of spun him. Stetcher kind of spun him and then the shot was off like you know you wall you know probably wouldn't have wouldn't have got there

it was close it was a tough one yeah see he they just didn't know no you do back off 50-50s I mean you need 80 20 90-10 50s no good all around the league he banged into him as the puck was entering the net that's obvious

challenge anyways sammy for coach i mean i would it would be way worse but i would have won that challenge boys all right unfortunately we solved nothing this hour on the leaf edition hour we'll try to do better when we go national with elliott freeman hockey night in canada next