Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Treliving Takes the Stage

Episode Date: May 29, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee bring back the Leafs Hour to break down GM Brad Treliving's press conference today. They discuss general takeaways, the timing of the presser, comments on 'changing the team's DNA,' and the uncertainty surrounding Mitch Marner and John Tavares's future. Later, Sportsnet Leafs insider Luke Fox joins the show (35:11) to share his thoughts on Treliving's availability, the next steps on Matthew Knies, positional priorities in free agency and the plan for Morgan Rielly.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome into the studio. It's a real Kipper and born show. We have a leaf hour edition of our program, a rare, but why two hours? It made us come back for a press conference. Brad tree living general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs address the media today for the first time since the Leafs were eliminated May 18th. Nick Kiprio's Justin born Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, Jake Schultz and Jen Rolnick. Wow. We've got an all star lineup upstairs. Yeah.

First hour is Jen. second hour is Jake. So the thing I will say though, we're on parish watch for Kipper because we were about to come into the studio and he's like, I'm thirsty. I'm gonna drink this 25 year old Coca-Cola. And I said, there's a water cooler right there, man. What are you doing?

You had a sip? So, hold on a second. So, hold on for a second. I was cleaning out the basement and my wife's like, get these out of here. And I had these Coca-Cola bottles from All-Star 2000 with the Toronto Maple Leafs. So not like, oh, they're 25 years old,

they're actually 25 years old. I had no idea what to do with them. So I brought them in. To drink? I brought a dozen into the refrigerator outside our studio and there was like two left. Also, that's hilarious. That is hilarious that someone

who didn't bring Coca-Cola bottles, saw in the fridge was like guess those are for me You know it's awesome time that might explain the washroom smells that we have in the studio I'm sure it's fine if anyone has any proof that I'm in danger Can you text the show 595 90 25 year old Cola is it still good? Mythbusters, no. And then Kimber's like, took one sip, he's like, oh okay, second one he's like, oh this is bad. This is really bad.

Now I'm a little nervous now because within like 15 minutes I've had a salami sandwich, two pieces of chocolate, and this Coca Cola, I have a bit of a tummy ache right now, and I don't know where we're to point the finger at That where we're at Drinking coca-cola and Wasting time well I Two o'clock we've never started at two o'clock have Have we not I think we did a full year at two to know

I thought we were three to five our first year I think we do three to five our second year two to four two to four then three to five and board Yeah, I'll text we are jam-packed with guests as well Luke Fox will join us for set dot CA covering the Toronto Maple Leafs. He did attend the press conference with Brad Tree Living. At the top of the hour, Ed Jovanski will join us, who covers the Panthers. He'll let us know exactly why he believes they're going to the Stanley Cup final for the third year in a row.

Yeah, pretty good. You watched the Tree Living Presser? I did. Yeah, between holes today. Did you play? I did play. 7.45am. You pulled the Sammy move. I go early too. Yes.

So, had it on. The Sportsnet Plus. On my phone. Hit a couple shots. So had it on the sports net plus On my phone is good hit a couple shots listened. Yeah followed along. So why don't we start there? You guys want a quick comment before we go into some kippers clippers. Yeah You know overall Thoughts on it, I guess that tree Had lots to say.

It was a long press conference, it was 50 minutes. I think he spoke for 15 or something without taking, before he took a question. But a lot of it was recapping, right? It was a soliloquy off the top. Okay, so I mean, for me personally, that didn't do much for me. Okay.

What are the overall takeaways? I think the only thing, the only thing we had a press conference about today was what's up with Marner and Tavares. What else was there really to say? Your D-Core is under contract till 2027. The Goaltender is under contract for the next season. The players up front, you don't really know what you can do with anyone until you answer two questions.

Like you have no idea what you need to do until you know if you have Marner or Tavares, right? So the whole thing was, are you gonna have these guys? And if not, what's the plan? And he couldn't answer. No. Really couldn't answer it, but we'll get to. And discred, I don't, I think it's his fault

he can't answer, but. We'll get some clips to read between the lines, Sammy. Has anyone reached out to you about it or like asked your thoughts on it? Because it did seem, you know, anecdotally from some of the stuff I'm seeing on X and some of the people, like, that maybe they thought he did a pretty good job

and then he was very forthcoming and like it was, you know, he spoke for 50 minutes. I really felt like it was just a pretty run of the mill end of season thing, but the thing that it lacked for me, and this is probably on purpose, was emotion because of how long they waited. It didn't feel like, you know, you do the locker clean out day and all the reporters down there

They're frothing at the mouth to get their clip. They're excited. Like it's a big day locker clean out Everybody wants to ask the tough questions or whatever But the team that eliminated them is now Threw around they're done before you've even addressed the media. Like it just felt like there was no real Hardness about it. Like it wasn't like it was it wasn't contentious at all. Maybe it was on purpose then. It had to have been. But don't you get what I'm saying? Is a wrench for sure.

You know, like he doesn't know his status necessarily for a bit. But do you kind of feel what I'm saying that it kind of lacked emotion? But I think it depends how you feel about what he said about DNA. If you feel like he said nothing there and was just being like, yeah, we just got to change our DNA, then yeah, I can see where you're coming from. If you feel like what he said there meant we need to make changes to the actual people here. Like we need different people.

That's what he means by DNA. All right, let's start there. Brad Tree Living on DNA clip one. We've changed. We've changed a lot in the last 12 months. There will be change moving forward. That's just the nature of the business. No team comes back the same.

We have to prepare and not all change might I add is personnel. There'll be changes in personnel. I think we've changed a little bit. I talked about how we play. We've got to continue to change and evolve our mindset and we've got to find a way to create the team both between the years, personnel, to be our very best at the most critical moments. There's some DNA that has to change in our team. That's one thing that I found.

If you keep getting to the same result, and that's not to dismiss a lot of the good that happened up until it, when you keep getting the same result and that's not to dismiss a lot of the good that happened up into it. When you keep getting the same result, there's some DNA that needs to change. Was there any follow up after that? There was. I believe Jonas Segal followed up with the first question about DNA. How do you change DNA? What DNA talk they clip to please Derek what it matters the most you have to embrace it, you know

You have to embrace it With all the things that With all the things that are the challenges in front of you a good opponent the, the stage, what's at stake, you've got to find a way to embrace that moment and ultimately succeed in it, right? The margins are thin, you know, the margins are really really thin and when I say that, it's not, I don't believe that you have to go and change 20 players, right? It's not always about that. It's what can we do to help our guys? What can we do to find guys that can help if there is change that need to make with the team?

How do we bring people in that have a mindset like that? But it's those big moments of really embracing it, but finding a way, whatever that way is, to get through it and have success. Yeah, that to me is just a lot of tap dancing around the original comment. And it's not Brad's fault if he's not getting pushed on some harder questions then tap dance away what would you have

considered a harder question up what DNA are you talking about let's start there you mean how's your leadership DNA? You happy with it? Culture stuff like that? Does that have to change? You know, like, it's, if I was Brad, I would have handled it the exact same way. Yeah. But if he's not getting pushed or being asked, I'll say it,

tougher questions, then he gets to go to do the merry-go-round. Yeah. You know, again, I do think that what he's being asked about DNA, it depends how you interpret that. Like, DNA is really hard to change. You know, and he talks about mindset. I don't like mindset stuff. I don't like the way we play stuff because that's what we've heard for years and years

That's but he get he he gets away with saying that because no one's pushing him harder right to say, okay Brad where like Where are you on the mindset like where was your mindset on on When it mattered most is it it just, is it just like, is it DNA, are you hiding behind DNA or is it just a fancy way of saying we weren't good enough? This is the thing though, like when you watch the Leafs go seven games with Florida but have the two games where they absolutely go comatose in

games five and seven, to you is that it's mindset? It's something that they need to work on between the ears? Or is it the people that are the way they are? Is it players? And you need different players? Is it, you know, can you take the same player group and go, we need to be calm in the big moments? And that's what it was like to me. They weren't that close. They weren't mindset off. That's exactly right. Not when you're outscored at 12 to two in your last two home games. And your two biggest games of your quote unquote, core's era. Yeah.

You're outscored a combined 12 to 2. So again, when I opened the show, I said to me it's about Marner and Tavares and not those moments, but it's about them because are we talking about them going and finding different people so the mindset changes? Is that directly what we're talking about? I don't know what DNA means.

Yeah, I think. I think that would have been a very good follow-up question here. Is changing DNA meaning taking the actual DNA that you have out and bringing in new DNA? Yeah. Right, are we talking about two two guys three guys five guys? like how

How many DNA changes do you need it's hard to change the people the DNA of the people you have it's hard I guess it's possible that is a challenge to change an individual's DNA. Yeah, I I think to me DNA DNA, like, because he did that in his preamble. Means do not answer. Means... Just dance around it. That's great.

Yeah, yeah. Dance, not answer. Yeah. It just feels like something that they sat around, had some meetings, him and Peli went to dinner and they're like, what's our buzzword gonna be? And it's gonna be DNA. Yeah, that's what it comes off as to me.

It doesn't mean anything. It means absolutely nothing. Your biggest players are crap in the biggest games. And at the end of the day, that's what matters. Florida was better than you, no question, but they weren't that much better. You can't lose 12-2 in those two big games combined. At the end of the day, like DNA means nothing. It's just the most ultimate one that everybody can put on the

sportsnet.ca website. They need to change their DNA. It's up there DNA DNA DNA. It means nothing boys. It means nothing. It's the most meaningless thing I've ever heard. Am I wrong? No, I don't.

Oh, it's like, oh, I love what they've done. I wonder what DNA. Yeah, I wonder what you know, what's Sam Bennett's DNA look like because that's what they're looking for and they're just gonna try to overpay him. I Don't know Sorry, you don't necessarily have to go there yet I mean the conversation will evolve there, but I think what are you talking about? They're gonna hypnotize Matthews and martyr about that they're gonna hypnotize so he's a maroon oh you're better at big games doing that the old Ted Ted get the clock out Ted

green had a line back and forth Ted green the assistant coach in Edmonton one of the lesser players got knocked out and And then Ted green advised the athletic trainer if if he wakes up and he doesn't know who he is telling me is Wayne Gretzky It's like you're not turning, you know, these guys into different humans. It's not like they're 21 years old. They've been on NHL for 9, 10 years. To tree-leaf his credit, one thing I really like that he said in that press conference is he said, I was here last year and we lost in game seven. I was here this year when we lost in game seven in the second round.

And I know everything that happened before. It was, I'm aware of everything that came before me. And for the first time I was like, yes! That was very, very refreshing to hear. You have to know the journey. You have to be, to understand. He's got a portion of the journey now. He is, he's part of it now.

He is, he got christened Now part of what Lee fans have experienced the Under Brendan Shanahan for 11 years. Yeah, right. So he got a piece of it. So Again that the DNA part for me is so tied into everything else that was questioned in these playoffs. And I'll tell you the one thing that that bothered me the most this round two and people can sit there and say, okay, they're, they're better than Carolina. They would have shown better than Carolina. They came within a game. But it all kind of gets lumped into the last 11 years for me

when the captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs stands up there and explains to everybody why they lost is because they had passengers. Like to me, that was like really bad. Totally. Really bad. Totally, I feel in this market under discussed. That is also DNA right there.

That Austin Matthews said we had too many passengers. Yeah. And I don't know between either the media talking to the players or Austin or if anybody followed it up with Keith Pelli in his press conference or maybe I was in between shots and I missed it. Was it ever brought up to Brad Tree Living today as one of those questions of your captain said at the most critical time, and you did talk about critical moments, but at the most critical time, your team had passengers.

How, Brad, how does that make you feel as a general manager when you hear your best player, your highest paid player, tell the fans and the media that at the most critical time, you guys had passengers. You know what I think is tough there, Kip, is I don't, you know, I obviously I didn't like that either. To me, he's trying, he's trying to say too many guys played bad. You know, we talked about we had the oiler, Gregor on yesterday talking about the oilers, but they did, Kip, but they didn't keep they did

I was like that. Of course they did we talked with the oilers yesterday Troy's stature is excellent and Kulak is fantastic and you go through the list Everyone is playing good and I think he doesn't think he plays good played good But I think it's fair to be like none of us played good. So, you know, maybe it's a phrase. Yeah. But nobody really said it. Yeah. Nobody says it. That's to me what passengers are. No one drove us.

But then just say it. Just say it. Yeah. We didn't play well. We weren't good enough. We didn't play well. Well, it goes to a lot of what's wrong with that. Like that comment is just like,

feels like to me that when Matthews and Marner specifically address the media, they're both just trying to say whatever they can possibly say to get it done over with as fast as possible. That has to change without saying anything meaningful ever. You can't. They just they just are like mumble mouth mumble mouth passengers, blah, blah, blah. We gotta be better. We gotta be better this or that.

Like it's just like you can't do it in this market. I totally agree. But they've been doing it for nine years. It's possible. They're quite bad at self-reflection correct You know yeah, like it's not a skill they have yeah Anyways, okay, but like that starts at the top Does it not do you mean player top? No, I'm talking about like just it's an organizational thing. They need to grab them be like, hey, just you guys are responsible. My suggestion would just be a little bit more honest.

It would actually go a long way. I actually think if you talk more, and you're more honest, it's less shocking and people pick through what you said less often. We know they're, they're not superhuman. It's a very difficult thing. Like I said earlier this week, only one team gets to stand there and claim that they're champions and then 31 others go, where did we go wrong? It's not easy, but you got to humanize it a little bit more. Totally agree. I've been saying that since the start. Like it just what it was hard. It's hard.

It's hard. We're picking horses here. It's hard. But I mean for any of them to come out of media day and be like, hey, we really understand how upset our fans are about this and we're sorry we couldn't get it done this time. You know far that would go. Did you see Eric Tulski's tweets today per chance?

No of the Carolina Hurricanes. No, it's like a six-part tweet about their fans and about that's what it's all for and how much they appreciate them Yeah, because how much it burns and we they don't take it for granted right? It's a different market They don't take it for they don't take it for granted. Well, they I mean the thing is it's like Here they all know like every key fell in every MLS They all know that there'll be sold out and I sure actually be dying to buy tickets all that stuff. Yeah there is not given. No, you're right So there's definitely more incentive to work on that angle. That's the part though I think they know I hope you have a belly in his press conference talked about it It's a the message needs to be a little bit. I don't know if it's clear but

Less taking it for granted, as you put, Sammy. Yeah. So we do have the clip on contract offers for Mitch and Tavares. Sure, yeah. I mean, that was a hot button topic, right, Marner? It's gotta be. Do you wanna start with just Marner on clip four?

Let's just do Marner to start. We're in that process right now. I had a meeting with all the players individually. We do our exit meetings. Mitch and I had a discussion. It's emotional right now, right? And so my discussion with Mitch is let's all take a step back. Let's take a deep breath. I got to decompress a little bit. We probably got delayed. That's not the right word. With Brendan's situation, that was a bit of a curveball that just took a couple days here to kind of get through.

So we're going to meet as a staff. I'm going to be in touch with Mitch's representative and all of our players representative And and and determine what's best right now Mitch has a say in this as well, right? So this isn't this isn't the world according to Brad. I think he's a great player. He's been a great player here We'll have to see we'll have to see how this all works. Can I think Mitch can succeed? Yes, I do. But as I said before, we've all got to kind of take a step back and look at, you know, we can't be rigid in our thought process of saying we can only do something one way.

And like I said, he's got to stay in the process. So again, another wordy answer to say, we'll see. And same thing with John, you know, and I, and, and, and, and really all of our UFAs, right? Really good players. I'm a, I'm a huge John Tavares fan, had a really good discussion with him. We, we, we got to, we got to take a step back, meet with our group. How can we, how do we best move forward? What are the costs? What is all those things that go into the, into a contract and everything else?

And how does it fit within the puzzle? So we'll see how that happens over the course of the next couple of weeks. Yeah, I wasn't expecting anything more or anything less. He's protecting himself. how that happens over the course of the next couple of weeks. Yeah I wasn't expecting anything more or anything less. He's protecting himself. He's not tipping his head. He's not sitting there going, we really want him back.

Like I really want him back. I mean he's not setting himself up either way. So whatever happens, it's as if he was prepared for it. If you did want him back Kip and you went out there it. If you did want him back, Kip, and you went out there and said, we really want him back, that'd be pretty bad negotiating. Like, that's not a,

I don't think you want to go out in the media and say you really want him back if you were trying to negotiate. The negotiating part, people are making way too big of it. Negotiating's not hard. The negotiation would be the easiest thing to do out of anything. The hard part is telling Mitch Marner or getting Mitch Marner to want to stay.

That's the hard part. Okay? stay. That's the hard part. Okay. And say what you will about how anyone has read the tea leaves between Mitch Marner and the Toronto Maple Leafs. As of yesterday, as of today, I don't know, but over the course of the season, it's been simply about a guy who about a guy who at this point does not want to return to be a Toronto-made belief. We've had this conversation over the past four years, free agents don't wake up after the season is over and go, gee, where do I wanna play?

John Tavares made up his mind long before his season was over with the New York Islanders. UFAs have a pretty good idea all season long whether they're going to move or stay. Not many of them go the distance. They get re-signed. Tavares didn't. He moved on. Mitch hasn't.avares didn't, he moved on. Mitch hasn't, in all probability, he will move on. It's not the negotiation, Sam.

It's just going, do the Leafs wanna go back to him and say, listen, I know up until now, you have not wanted to sign here, but whatever will fix it, will make it better, will put you in a position to help win. And that's not to completely take them off the hook and say, hey Mitch, by the way, score some more points in the playoffs.

You and your buddies here, Boston and Willie and Morgan, be better, we need you better. That's not to say that that can't happen either, have that conversation, but Mitch doesn't wanna sign here. Just as of today, he doesn't want to. What, do you have a month to change his mind? That's the tricky part that they gotta find out.

How far do they wanna go to him and say, Mitch, come on, man, we really want you back here. What's the problem? What can we do to fix it? Well, I mean, it's one thing to say, now the negotiation doesn't matter. That hasn't felt like that throughout the year, but it's nice to know that we're there now,

if that is in fact the case. Can you imagine what a simpering, sad organization you would be, is after the way this has gone the whole time, gone, here's what we'll do's you know here's what we can do to make this it's just to me it's like a relationship your buddy gets together and breaks up and gets together and breaks up with a girl enough times and you're like it doesn't work there's the she's not that into you or it can work but but I need to change okay no, but people don't change.

No, people do change. People do change. People do change. Or you lose somebody every once in a while. Yeah. I just, you know, to me, Kip, it's like, he doesn't want to be here. Then it's just, it can't work.

You're not going to change someone's mind with three phone calls and we're gonna get you a better chef or a cooler line mate. Like I don't, it's... See, I worry about that for the Leafs. And you can sit there and say it's just Mitch. But here's a hometown guy who is the greatest hometown player in Maple Leaf history, fastest to score 700 points.

And you can't get him to stay here. But this only comes up when it's time for him to get his. Like Tavares is like falling all over himself to give money back. You know, when he was doing his last contract, he wasn't giving money back to be in Toronto It wasn't about that, but it's not this isn't about the money for mitch It was never about the money and people thought it was about the money. Oh, you're just he's just holding out for 13 13 and a half bonuses 10 years later about respect. That's what he said, but it's yeah, it's it's it's about That people have never thought that he's as good as mine, but if you're so hurt, the damage is done. You're not fixing it.

See, I hate that. I hate that because... What are they going to offer him that's going to change him? I don't know. It's whatever issues he has, address them with him. I don't know what they are. But it's just not about money. Yeah.

Listen, if they had issues with him, then they should have tried to trade him a long time ago. You could have moved him. You could have. You could have said, listen, we're not, we're not, you could have put the reverse of, and Tree Living's had this experience with Matthew Kachuk. Matthew Kachuk goes, I'm not signing here.

You better move me. And he did. But did Marner say that to him? Last time. No, I'm saying that Brad, if they didn't want him back. They could have said, if you're not signing, we're not signing you. We're not signing you, you can stay,

but we are not gonna sign you. Give us four teams, give us a wish list, we'll try to move you. We're not letting, we can get two first rounders and a prospect for you. Do you think it's the best thing for the Leafs, for him to come back? I think there's a world where you can come back,

they just can't all come back together. You know what the situation is where I could see it? If you could get Morgan to waive his no trade and you didn't resign tomorrow's, I'd be down. You have to make, those are fundamental core pieces of your five. I'm not coming back next year. I'm taking Morgan out of the equation. I'm not coming back here with Marner, Matthews, Nylander or Tavares.

One or two of them have to go for Mitch to stay. To me it's for Mitch to stay. It needs to be Tavares and Riley. You need a fundamental change here. Now DNA Mitch stays and I get rid of either Matthews or Nylander yeah they're not gonna do that but to me that is a major change that's DNA baby that's DNA, baby. That's DNA. That is DNA, right? That's absolutely DNA. Yeah.

He may pull a ranton in and sign for 12 million in some state tax city and move on. And everybody's- Vegas? The one thing I'm confident of with Marner, wherever he signs, it's gonna hurt the Leafs. I don't think he's gonna go quietly to Utah and they'll be okay. Or he's gonna go quietly and go play for who's the other team

here sometime. Chicago. Chicago like yeah I don't think that's gonna happen. It'll be Florida. You know. Or it'll be a contending team. Yeah you know. Florida! They're losing Bennett Neckblad they're gonna have a pile of money. Can you imagine? Yes I can. That the Leafs signed Sam Bennett and the Florida Panthers signed Mitch Marner and then the Florida Panthers beat the Leafs with Mitch Marner in the lineup playing great and Sam Bennett playing like crap. That would be the leafiest outcome of all time.

I just wanna go back to my original question. This isn't about Mitch Marner per se, but this is about an organization to go, okay, we just can't have guys leaving and wanting to leave here. Maybe we got to look in the mirror and say, what did we do? What can we do better? Part of the culture. Mitch doesn't like the culture here. Okay, that's another reason why he wants to leave. He's been a big part of setting it. He's a captain. I know. He's been here for nine years. Yeah, he's a huge part of the culture.

But it just, it starts from up top. And if there was, if he had issues, did he address them in time? Did the Leafs find out only when it was too late? I just think there has to be more of a reflection on ownership, management, the people that have been in charge the last 11 years to say, did we give them the best chance to win? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's all.

You know, I don't think that this core really likes each other. Like I don't think that Matthews and Marner and Nylander and I don't- They're not tight. No, I don't think- Because they don't play tight. No, I don't think because they don't play tight. No, I don't think that they really love each other. I think if you're Matthew's you probably prefer even if you think John DeVars is a great guy to not have the old captain

like supervising your new captain Lee. Like I do think that part of them is kind of hoping that something happens here where it's very different in the dressing room and the culture changes. I just I don't know that there's good vibes and positive memories and happy times. It's like some relationships just too far gone. But it really started, you know,

right back to the B bonuses. Why did he get his? I want mine, I want mine. Oh, he didn't sign a max contract. I don't have to sign a max contract. We gave you the money, we gave you the term you wanted, you had everything you wanted, and yet it appears like nobody's happy.

It does appear that way. Yeah, just like me talking about the Leafs. Not happy at all times. This is just a Leafs Hour exclusive here, but I just see these other teams that just go out, and it's just quiet. Everybody's at Winnipeg, they're like, oh yeah. No one's like, blow them up, get rid of everybody.

It's just, they just get to go out quietly out there. They're like, oh, let's's talked about a little bit in their market We haven't mentioned them since they went out like are we Jets talk? RIP it's gone. No more Jets talk and all we are it's just like every other market They just go out quietly and it's here President's gotta go Star home ground players gotta go everybody's gotta go. It's just it's so frustrating Being part of this sometimes and listen, I'm right in the heart of it. I understand it, but it's just like

God it's tiring. It is yeah, maybe we're just not close enough to those markets. Maybe it's happening. So sure I'm sure they talk Sure, they talk about when it paid once in a while. Yeah, maybe Matthew nice we should probably go Alright Nationally it's a Matthew nice. We should probably go All right, we got a break. We got a call Luke. So well, that's Kimbo Matthew nice. How about that? Yeah, sure All right. Oh, go ahead. Yep. You got any announcements or anything? All right, Luke Fox NHL writer for sportsnet.ca Regular contributor on our show will join us and then in the next hour also Craig Simpson Stanley Cup champion hockey night in Canada will join us. And then in the next hour, also Craig Simpson, Stanley Cup champion, hockey night in Canada will help us tee up Dallas. Still got a shot you think?

You know, the Hyman injury hurts quite a bit. So plenty, plenty more on the real Kipper and Bourne show on our special leaf hour edition. Back after these words. Hey, it's Matt Marchese and I'm Mike Fuda. We're discussing the top stories Kipper and Bourne show on our special365, Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. Let's welcome in Luke Fox, Leaf and NHL writer for Sportsnet.ca. He followed Brad Treleving's media address today. He spoke for the first time since May 18th. The Leafs were eliminated. Luke, how are you? Thanks for joining us. Between game seven, I guess, and today, it's 11 days. So certainly a lot of time to let a lot of things settled here. Do you think

it helped set the tone for Brad Tree Tree Living today those 11 days off? Yeah because it's kind of a funny timing I can't remember when a GM spoke after the next round was already over like but you know it's it's far enough away from the pain of game seven that the emotions have passed so he's not saying anything emotional when he takes the podium. And it's still far enough away from free agency where he can say, well, we're just starting to go through our process. We're meeting with our pro scouts. We're going to sit down and, and develop a plan. So it's kind of in that, that in between stage. So he spoke for, cause that, that in between stage. Um, so he spoke for, cause

he did a scrum afterwards. He spoke for about 50 minutes. A lot of words were said, I don't know how much we learned. I think kind of the biggest thing I took away is some of the things he wasn't saying. Like he wasn't saying we got to keep banging at the door. We keep got a betting on these guys. I think tomorrow, it's the Marner so tremendous that I'm going to do everything to my power to keep them here. He didn't say anything like that. He wouldn't even guarantee that he would offer them an extension on paper. And part of that, I think, is the accumulated losses nine years now. And part of it is he only has so

much say in the matter. Tavares and Marner have earned the right to take a little peek behind the curtain now. Yeah absolutely. You know listening to that press conference today it did feel like in the end it was just kind of about a couple of guys right and I guess your thoughts on on his tone today, like we talked a little bit on our show about not hearing a ton about culture or leadership necessarily. What was your thoughts on his tone of the day? I thought it was pretty good. I mean, it was pretty even.

I like that he admitted that something in the DNA has to change. I like that he was specific in terms of game five against the senators. We seemed to have forgotten that one. That was a missed opportunity because in the end, they got it done in six. So you kind of give game five a pass, but I liked how he brought that up.

And the fact that they basically laid an egg in that game at home. I liked the fact that he pointed to game three, they're up, uh, to nothing and three, one have a chance to take a strangle hold. And then of course, you know, everyone felt game five and game seven. So I like how we singled out those moments and the fact that there wasn't just one moment, you can't just sweep it under the rug and say, well, we didn't have it that night.

No, there were multiple times where you had a chance to show the fan base and show the front office show the Decision-maker show tree-living that you have it within you to come through When the pressure is at its highest when you have a chance to finish a team off Really put your boots to the opposition and multiple times you didn't come through. So for him to say, Oh no, we'll learn from those scars. He didn't say that. He said, we have to change the DNA of our team. And that may seem a little vague, but I don't think it's vague. I think it has to do with personnel. The sense is right now with Brendan Shanahan gone, Luke,

and no replacement for Brendan, that as big as of a staff that the Maple Leafs have in the various departments, it's really feels like it's coming down to two guys carrying the weight of what happens next with the Leafs in just Brad tree living and Craig Borubee. Is that the sense that you got today? Yeah for sure and I got it from Peli's conference last week too. It was it was really

interesting how much the CEO was talking about the head coach and how he liked the the culture Borubee set and that he's gonna really lean on Barube's council in addition to trade living. It's rare to hear someone that high, that close to ownership talk so much directly about how much he wants the head coach involved. And maybe that's a function of, Pelley being a bit of a soccer guy,

and over in Europe, you know, the head coach has maybe a little bit more sway than maybe the NHL. But now there's a direct line. And today it was interesting kind of Tree Living saying, I'm still got to develop that relationship because, you know, I'm sure he had a nice friendly relationship with Pelly, but most of his conversations would be through Shanahan and then down to Brubay. He probably wasn't working directly with Pelly all that much. And now that's his direct boss, a guy who didn't hire him. And Trey Living's on the clock here,

right? He only has two more years left on his contract and he's in a really tight spot. He's probably going to let his highest score, a guy who put up 102 points in the regular season, walk out the door for nothing. Maybe you can pull a Jake Gensel and salvage a third round pick or something, but then you got to somehow make up all that scoring by committee and in a pretty thin free agent class when you've spent kind of some of your best trade chips already, you know, talking to scouts, they kind of say Easton Cowan would be better served having a year with the Marlies and not being jumping right up into the with the big boys. So he's in a really tight summer and all of a sudden, all eyes are on him, just the way they were

on Shanahan last season and Dubas the year before that. It's funny, it doesn't take long around here, particularly when heartbreaking losses accumulate. Away from those couple of guys that we talked the most about, I did get the sense that he wanted a defenseman that can move the puck up the ice a little bit more. He talked a little bit more about volume coming from the back end and he also talked about Matthew Nyes. Give us your thoughts on the non-Marner and the non-Tavarez conversations that

Tree Living had today. Yeah I'll start with Nyes and you know he was very definitive in that I want this guy soon as soon as possible Yeah, and he then he used the old joke and I've heard him say it before the only two issues are money in term You know talking with nice all season long like the guy loves it here He is I mean for the youngest guy on the team. He's like this close for me to wearing a letter I love you know that Florida game when they write in the regular season, when he called them out for being soft. And then the very next game in Tampa Bay, he was the best player on the ice.

Like, I love that two game segment for Matthew Nyes. I was like, this guy is one of the most mature guys on the whole team. He's willing to call it like it is. And then he's willing to go out and back his words up. So when, when I talked to him and, and he talks about his love for Toronto and he, you know, he scoffed at a reporter's question about an offer sheet, I have no doubt they're going to get things, get something done. I think the big question is what works best is, is Bridger longterm. And I think that will be impacted by who they chase in free agency, but they'll make it

work. I wouldn't be worried about knives. The defense is fascinating, Borny, because they have seven NHL level guys under contract already, if you include Philip Myers. And their defense was pretty good. Uh, but their defense is getting older and it's funny. It's now become a little bit one note. There's a lot of toughness, a lot of size, a lot of guys willing to block shots, but you know, they're not generating. You're not seeing guys. You don't see a Thomas Harley. You don't see Evan Bouchard and Morgan Morgan Riley lost the step and I don't know if there's reason to believe he's going to find that step over the summer.

So it is an area that that that trail living is going to look at and he admitted to that. I just think there's so many holes up front that forward has to be the priority because they're losing bodies. Morgan Riley has years left on his contract. He's also got a no move. Is there a sense that one of them may be moving that may have a no move clause or will have been asked by training camp?

That's a great question. I don't know the answer. All I know is that history tells us that the Maple Leafs don't make it that uncomfortable. And these guys, once they have their trade protection, they ride it out. And I believe Riley loves it here. Now, if you can present a scenario where work with the player, where he's going someplace where he feels maybe he gets a fresh start I think it's worth exploring but right now you know last we talked to Morgan he was like I'm not even

thinking about that right now you know him and Tessa just recently bought a home it might be a year old might not even be like he's just kind of settling roots just had a baby less than a year ago. So I think it would be a tricky ask. It's a tricky ask. I love those. It's a great defense system to getting traded.

Hey, just yeah, we really put down roots. We got a school pick. You know, as they head in towards next season, if do lose Marner let's say Antivirus you know what do you expect here how optimistic are you do you think it's Sam Bennett and change you know I don't even know what to think they would do given what's available as UFAs. Yeah there's not much and the guys who are out there are gonna get paid. Like every team now has more cap space.

Like someone, I feel like someone's going to overpay for Nikolai Ehlers. Someone's going to back up a Brinks truck at Brock Besser's house. Like these guys are going to get paid. You know, Brock Nelson is going to get paid like a two C when on a real contender, he's probably a three C no offense to the player. I just think, you know, he's kind of starting the downside of, of his prime and Sam Bennett, like 8 million. I don't know.

Um, and Florida wants to keep them. Is he going to do the Sam Reinhart where he could have got a higher AAV if he put himself out to market? Or right after a parade does he say, oh yeah, it's pretty good. I get to wear flip flops and we win championships. Maybe I'll just stay here. Right. So the options are really slim. I am very worried about their center depth. I thought Tavares got overmatched in the Florida series, as great as his regular season was. And now he's gonna be a year older. He can still produce, he can still help a power play, but do you have a one, two, three up the middle

that can win a cup? And you're looking at the free agent options, it's really tough. So I think he's gonna to have to get creative. And when I say that, maybe that means talking to guys about waving no moves. Maybe that means some trades and not just free agency. You're going to be fascinating to watch. Luke, as always, thanks for your regular contributions on our show all season, man.

Appreciate you, bud. All right. You guys had a great season. Keep it rolling till the end of the cup, I guess, right? Oh, yeah. Luke Fox, everybody. Mitchell Ryder for Sportsnet.CAC. Again, Brad Treeliving wakes up today with a potential of 175 points out of his lineup. How do you replace them?

The defense is solid with the contract still there, but none of them have the feeling that they could have a great year and produce 70 points next year for you. So that's missing. And then you gotta ask yourself between Stolarz and Joseph Wall, are you gonna get the same goaltending next year as you got this year? Is that a given now?

Like how many games did Stolarz flat out like steal for the Leafs this year? How many points did he add to the Leafs? Twenty. It's a huge number. It's funny because he talked about how the way they play lends itself to that, to like you know giving up a lot of volume. But it didn't look so good in game five and game seven when you needed it most. Well, he wasn't playing because Sam Bennett took him out like he tried to do with Fred

Cain. Thanks, Tips. I forgot that. But it just wasn't there. It just wasn't there. So is it a given that they're going to get the same type of goaltending? Like when you factor in all these things that I just mentioned, is it a given that they'll make the playoffs next year?

It's not a given, nothing's a given, no. It's not, but it's also, you know, you've tried it one way a lot. And I do wanna push back in the idea, everyone keeps saying 175 points. You're not trying to replace 175 points. Tavarez isn't getting 75 points next year, I don't think. And we're not talking about the guys that, whoever you bring in with, how much is that

combined salary? 22 million? How many points are they going to get? Is it 150? You know, like it's... I don't know, it could be less. It could be less. A lot less.

It could be less. For sure it could be. But, you know... Even if you signed Tavares, you're still, to your point, you're not maybe getting 75. He's a year older. He's maybe a little slower. Maybe he's down to 58. And people are talking about, oh, we'll give him the tan of thing to get

more or lower AAV. So it's gonna give him years. Stop. Stop. Stop it. Okay. All right, Sammy. Yeah, there's your leaf hour. Great. So happy we did that. I feel so a lot better. Oh, totally. You're jacked for training camp. You're freezing. All right. We go national next. Talk about Florida. Talk about Dallas. Sick Jays jersey giveaway this weekend. Gotta go.