Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Uncrowning the Kings

Episode Date: October 17, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' 6-2 win over the Kings last night and discuss LA missing Doughty badly, the Leafs taking their foot off the gas after going up early and Berube getting hot on the bench. Then, they get into Tavares' diminishing role, Liljegren's flawed season debut, the decision to scratch Pacioretty and the Matthews/Marner/Knies lines' synergy. Finally, they share their thoughts on Bobby McMann's two-goal night, vintage OEL and Stolarz taking over the starting job.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

welcome in to the leaf edition hour of the real kipper and born show nick kiprios justin born sammy mckee derek brandeo and jake the snake schultz with you for the next couple of hours here as we get uh a good handful of games in already for National Hockey League teams, including the Toronto Maple Leafs. Fairly convincing win last night against what we deem an NHL hockey club in Los Angeles. You're that down on them, eh? Buddy, did you see that blue line that they dressed last night the la kings just take a quick look at it and read me the names mikey anderson vladislav gavrikov

caleb jones brant clark kyle burrows andreas anglin not that bad oh bud not that bad just give me one drew dowdy there and i think it it presents a lot better but yeah you factor that in with big save ridditch is that big save dave big save dave can you give me one good reason why this guy's still in the league no no i cannot like that was not nhl goaltending last night for the la kings don't you take this away from my trauma no no no no no no i'm not i'm not and i'm not playing debbie downer because you're going to tell me everything that you love about them for sure and and good i mean like we said they made them look bad four four and one right now are they four and one three and one three and one maybe four and one right now. Are they four and one? Three and one. Three and one. Maybe four and one after Saturday night.

Moral victory. To me, that will be a better feel, a better test of where maybe the Leafs are at this point. But that was a tough game for me to watch last night. Just quality of play? Just watching. And granted, I did watch the la kings against ottawa too where they gave up eight goals and blew countless leads as well yeah and they're they're hurting right now no statistical analysis of that game matters because the leafs were up by a field goal within whatever it was 10 minutes or so and then that changes the game after that like i

looked at a lot of the numbers and it was like ah la had higher this that whatever but the least just kind of played out the clock for the last 45 minutes of that game okay let's go to craig bruby oh yeah okay and then sammy you can jump in oh good clip one overview of the game i thought our special teams were excellent goalie was really good you know we had a good first period i thought you know got a lead um you know second period they came out and pushed hard early and i thought we regained our poise and you know our game a little bit but then the third i thought that uh we were just sloppy a little bit. Yeah. You have to keep your focus. Right? And you're up five.

Yeah, you can talk about how crappy the Kings were in the first period, but I thought for long stretches of that game, they carried the play and had the puck in the Leafs zone. Right? Like I know, like you said, it's human nature. After the first period. After the first period. Yes.

Like the first period, the Leafs were dominant. They woke up and they started pushing a little harder. And to Justin's point, when you've got such a big cushion, maybe you took your foot off the gas pedal a little bit here. Yeah, I felt like it. That's, what, 14 goals in two games that the LA Kings have given up?

I don't know. It's just watching a lot of teams struggle early and maybe that's a bigger picture for another another conversation on another day and but like i just i think as well as we feel very confident about what we've seen so far there's really just about seven or eight teams that really matter are we going back to our champions league talk from from year one of real kiprum born i

didn't i don't want to the champions i don't want to champions league team right now but i i got reminded last night yeah that there might be only like seven or eight teams that really matter this season and you know and it's nice to cover one of them well and yeah and i would say yeah you watching the leaf so far this year so trying to temper my own excitement, frankly, because they look different than they've looked in previous years. Yes, and the feel's different. It feels different. Like, they're so much more solid on the back end.

Tanev and OAL have gone a long ways to doing that. McCabe has taken a step for me. You know, you've actually got roster competition, guys struggling to get in and out, so you've got more effort down the lineup like it just feels really solid the way I've tempered that a little bit is that they have faced a pretty easy schedule thus far well non-playoff teams but they've handled a New Jersey team that the New Jersey team came over yeah that overseas everybody talked about that they were the 75 devils after they starched the Did I say 75

devils? I meant to say 75 Habs. The 75 Habs that beat the Sabres. But to the, you know, I should say, when you have easy teams in your schedule, you want to come out and look good, they've come out and looked great. They've come out and done that. I will say that there is a

big time excitement amongst Leafs Nation about this start. Early on. Skeptics. Even skeptics giving you the, maybe. I am, I think it's pretty fair to say that the joy has been beaten out of me over the last four years doing this show and talking about the Leafs. And the joy is not nearly what it used to be when I was a younger man. That's just life.

That's life in general. But I will say like i am still a fan at heart and i am really really excited about what i've seen from this team and i have to tell you like i fully love berube having tanev back there has changed things for me the goaltending looks unbelievable we're four games into the season but under a new coach with a bunch of new players i didn't expect it to look this good this quickly. I have to be totally honest with you. Is that fair, Kippy?

It is, but for me, after four games and then three of them that we don't think that they're going to make the playoffs, it's way too early. It's just there's going to be some tests that you want to you see and with all again due respect to 32 teams and you know it's hard it's hard 32 teams is a lot and it's hard to fill out rosters and for some teams it's been watered down there's watered down products out there yeah but but that doesn't have anything to do with the progress that we feel that the leafs has made and i won't take that away from them but over the course

of 82 games the only thing that really matters to me is how i think they can match up once again guys once again we can say whatever we want about the LA Kings. You're facing teams that you can kind of pad your stats a little bit. To me, all that matters is how are they going to look in the Atlantic Division coming out of Florida and now Tampa Bay. That's all. Right? Yeah. You know, the NHL, it's become like a long-running storyline now.

The whole cutoff of American Thanksgivinggiving or end of november you know where teams are pretty typically where they're going to end up we do see some sorting in the early going so when when i hear people be like that's a few games or whatever it's like it sorts itself out pretty quick so i i just yeah i think if least fans want to have some joy in their lives now is a fine time to be like you you're going to be in the fight. You're going to be a team that gets to compete and has good players, and there's going to be injuries and whatever.

But yes, I agree, Kip, they haven't got the test against Rangers coming up. Yeah. Rangers would be in the mix of... Tampa's coming up after that. Rangers, we would put in the mix of seven or eight teams that could compete for the Stanley Cup. They won the president's

trophy last year they they got chance again this year and then i didn't even mention boston who beat colorado last night but it just seems like everybody's beating colorado might not be a playoff team all of a sudden but the feeling is that the leafs have made changes to better position themselves up against a Boston or a Tampa Bay or a Florida this time around. But watching them against L.A. did nothing for me. No. I think if you're looking for direction and signs and positive things, the power play scores a couple of goals, which is nice.

Yeah. They moved around. Austin Matthews, goal and two assists, you know, like gets off the schneid a little bit. the power play scores a couple of goals which is nice moved around austin matthews golden to assist you know like gets off the the schneid a little bit and so i think there's a lot of the things you wanted to see happen for the team happened um but you're right i i won't argue that the last 30 minutes that game was like we run time kind of felt a little bit like sheldon's old team well the last half yeah but i love the timeout, and I love how that was handled. But I also like that, in all honesty,

they would have found a way to, last year, to make it a one-goal game. Five-three, five-four. Right? A one-goal game, and they still shut the door when they had to, and Stolarz made saves when he had to. He made one big save. Even though that there was a good push,

he never let the game get out of hand. There was some signs of Sammy swimming a little bit from Stolarz in the back half a little bit, but nowhere near what we've ever seen out of Samsonov. There was a trip in the neutral zone that could have easily been a five-on-three out of L.A. Yeah, on Lawrence. And this didn't get lost on Berube

because he called that timeout at 5-2 and gave the guys a tongue-lashing on the bench. With 17 minutes left or whatever it was, I thought that was great. And one thing that Sam and I talked about before you got in today was the uh you know what sheldon keith timeouts looked like last year whereas will ferrell and old school doing the old you know we're gonna keep our composure you know red faced and screaming ruby just kind of looking down at probably tavarez one of the guys holmberg and tavarez i think, I think, had an earful. And he basically said

wake the heck up. Up. Yeah. And you liked the comportment with which he had. The demeanor. Yeah, this is something we talked about last time on Leafs Talk, but he looked just more direct, better

communicator. Not out of this world mad, not screaming at the top of his lungs, just looking two guys dead in the eyes and telling them be better, and it's poised. It's just, there's a presence about him, which, you know, he's just a bigger person. He's an intimidating man.

He's just scary. Do you have anything on, did he talk about the timeout at all? He did talk about the timeout today at practice. I just, you know, I wanted to go back to the start of last year where we're talking about them playing against, you know, bad competition. Within the first, you know, they won the first game of the season last year, 6-5 in a shootout against the Habs.

They give up five. They beat Minnesota 7-4 in a wild game where they had to have back-to-back hat tricks from Austin Matthews. They had to tie the game at the end of the game. They lose to Chicago in the first game, one of their games. They lose to Florida. We went to the game they lost to Chicago in. It's just like, you know, they started poorly last year.

Even when they won. Even when they won. They started outscoring your mistakes, which we have not said once this season. Last year, they were a pretty bad defensive team, all told. They were one of the worst defensive teams last year in play the point the point i'm getting at here is that i think leaf fans have reason to be excited about the way they're playing their signs their signs there is no doubt signs that they are a different type of team than they have been over the matthews era but how different we have not even remotely

scratched the surface for sure no so it's for i don't want to i don't want to kill uh people being optimistic or feeling good i'm just saying like you know yeah realism check here three and one here yeah like saturday night okay i'm paying attention there's a lot of games that you can sit there and go i i'm not going to be able to tell you anything about this hockey club from this but saturday night i i think is a is one that we can use as a measuring stick why i'm interested to see how it goes is typically with this team when people start to talk good about them when people start to say this is a good hockey team, I think they have a real chance, they

immediately remind you that they'll pee in the bed. That's usually the result. And when they're terrible and everyone laughs at them, you're going to get their best game. They have zagged when you'd expect to zig last year and the year before. So I'm curious Saturday night if you can get another

focused good effort. Like again, I'm curious Saturday night if you can get another focused good effort. Like again, I'm watching last night, and I think there's still this question mark or uncertainty of what's going to become of John Tavares and where is his fit. Again, up 3-0, less than a minute to go, kind of carrying the puck through the neutral zone. Wants to do a complete 360 in the neutral zone.

Turns the puck over, and it's right back. And there's a few turnovers as well in the last half of the game. But is he still your second guy behind? Well, he wasn't last night right last night it was pretty clear who the second line was and they were unbelievable so yeah mcmahon neilander domey yeah really really good the last since they've been put together they've been and listen we had this conversation did you give it as much rope as you can during the regular seasons to think that you could start max as a second line centerman in the stanley cup playoffs or are you wondering about you know other options like you look at

his ice times make some plays you just look at his ice times against montreal where he played 1848 to start the year but they were like five on davaris that was like six on five for the last three minutes of that game where he was out there. And then he plays 15-0-4 against New Jersey. Plays 16-10 last night. And they had how many power plays? Four power plays? Right.

His role, you are watching his role be diminished in front of our eyes here. Like, he's becoming the third line center. It's happening. You're watching him. We saw the really brilliant goal in new jersey beautiful where he shows that in tight he could still make quick plays and shoot a puck in the net yeah that was a special goal and it was if i'm not mistaken uh five on five obviously they went into last night uh oh four on the power, so that was an even strength goal. Last night, he got a nothing burger off of a backhand.

Like, it wasn't even big save. He had a tough time. It wasn't even him. It was Copley. Copley, like, you know. They made a really weird pull of the goalie halfway through the second period. It's called a catcher's mitt.

Like, use it. Yeah. Hit him in the glove. But outside of that, it wasn't exactly like a five-on-five display by John Tavares and his line mates last night. So, again, that to me is a big question mark. It's a big, not a hole, but it's like, how are you going to fill it? So let me ask you, what are you working towards here?

Like, do you have thoughts that this is still a guy that maybe, could he get traded this year? I thought if there was going to be a push on Tavares to move him out, you probably would have done it in the offseason. Whether or not you wanted to take 50% of that contract, that $11 million, could you have found someone to bite on it for $6 or $7 million? I don't know.

I think it would get easier for a team that may want to be on the outside looking in, pushing towards January, February, but are you going to go now ask them? You asked them about taking the C off the jersey. Are you going to now do this in the middle of the season? This would be a huge distraction. This would be a major, major story. It would be, mean the distraction would get

cleared up by the trade deadline right you would either get a different player who the distraction is then over yeah or you've offended someone who's probably worse but has something to prove if that does happen i don't know i i don't think it's possible. But taking the C off the jersey is already something to prove. Right? He's already got what we thought was a chip on his shoulder. And I don't think this is possible. I don't think he'd want it to happen. I'm just wondering, Kip, if there's another solution

aside from now this guy's going to play 14 minutes on your third line. I mean, if the top half of your lineup looks the way it did last night, which it has the potential to with, I think, Domi and Nylander have showed chemistry together. What's wrong with Tavares playing that? Yeah, you're right. What's wrong? You're right.

I don't understand. I mean, just because you're worried about hurting his feelings isn't the last year of a contract. I thought you were saying what's wrong with having him. No, it's the other part. If you're going to go to Matt, listen, if I told you guys 16, 18 months ago, Max was going to be the second line center man for the Toronto Maple Leafs trying to win a Stanley Cup, you would have looked at me

like I had a third eye on my forehead. And now you're like, yeah, maybe. I still don't think that. But you have to get to the playoffs and win games and play what like and there's a trade deadline you have that second round pick that you got from boston this year where you can improve your centers before the deadline they're good enough to get to where they need to go in the regular season another ryan o'reilly yes that's i mean that's exactly what they need that is him going away was such a huge hit to this team where

they offered him that money and he didn't take it. That to me is the perfect guy. It was always the perfect guy. All I'm thinking about, who's the perfect guy now? Because he's not available. No, he won't be available. I mean, maybe he'll come back. That's what I see when I watch the Toronto Maple Leafs.

You know, besides maybe a deeper blue line. Maybe a deeper blue line. Very much a deeper line very much better better much better better yeah yeah but are you talking about at the deadline about adding to the blue line depth is that what you're talking when you say maybe getting it we'll see how long they want to take a look at at max in the middle or continue to look at Holmberg in a different role? Are you – they still got to shed money, guys. Like, Yarnmark's coming back.

Yarncroc? Yarncroc. What did I say, Yarnmark? Yeah, Yarncroc. There's a lot of yarns in the league. But Yarncroc, so he's coming back in a week or two. And Huck and Pa's money's coming back uh in in a week or two and huck and pause money's coming on so lingren uh lilligren i'm throwing out names now left around center you're on fire today like this

this is my last day of the week by the way grapes over here lilligren the lily pad played last night so he's in the mix here are they going to try to get rid of his 3 million bucks? Yeah. So. Yeah, it's going to be interesting. I know last night, Lilligren played.

So if you look at the ice times of Toronto's D it's like, you know, 19, 20 minutes per guy. And then Lilligren got 1355. Okay. Let's go to Ruby for the lily pad. Click five. Okay. Let's go to Ruby for the lily pad. Click five.

The five. He was fine. I mean, you know, he felt they're killing penalties and he got what? 14 minutes, five on five. I don't know what it was the minutes,

but you know, he, he was pretty solid. Okay. For the record, when my wife asks me how she's looking tonight, and I say fine, I get a slap on the head. No one wants to hear fine. Yeah.

Luke Fox's article today commented on this, on lilligren's game last night and said that toronto was out attempted 20 to 2 and outshot 8 to 2 when lilligren was on the ice last night um despite druby trying to bruby trying to shelters matt well i mean he gets asked that question and he talks to true living every day and there's probably a showcase element of this getting them back in the lineup playing games they can't have ruby going like wow he's no good when somebody's trying to maybe make a trade for a three million defense so he says that but he's just lying to everybody he was pretty solid he had to force that out let's see if our coach decoder ring we may have something on barubi that might be because this guy stunk yeah like that i mean he and i was

talking to bernie about this but he cross checks the guy down takes a penalty he clearly doesn't know what he's supposed to do he doesn't know let's take time to break yeah he doesn't know what he's supposed to be doing out there to please the coach he did look like a guy that's trying not to make a mistake instead of trying to do something forceful. It's hard when the coach wants you to be someone you're not. I told you the story of writing an article for a certain website that wanted a certain tone, and it ended up it wasn't my tone, and it came off all weird.

And it just, you can't, you got to be who you are. And for Lilligren, a cross-checking mean D is never going to be it. No. So did you have a really clever tweet last night? I just, I was really clever. It was very clever. Max Pacioretty got scratched, so I tweeted Max Scratch already. I don't know.

I guess that was disrespectful to Max, who has a prestigious career, and I deleted it. Anyway. Oh, you chicken. You chicken. Next time, send that to me. I'll fire it off. There won't be any deleting. Oh, you chicken. You chicken. Next time, send that to me. I'll fire it off. There won't be any deleting. Oh, my gosh.

But, you know, game four. Game four is scratched, fellas. Were you surprised? No. No? No. Did you miss him? No.

I think. See, we've seen him play pretty hard already in a few exhibition games, and he's trying really hard, but it's, what do you think you're going to get, like 80 games out of this guy? I think this is kind of what he's built for in terms of the expectations or the contract and whether or not you feel like he's an everyday player or a guy that can just kind of spot duty in if somebody goes down. If they lose somebody in a top six,

I think it's an easier fill than thinking that you're just going to throw Nick Robertson up there. If he's cool with it, I think it'd be great. You know, you got a guy making, what's he make, $850 or whatever he makes, something cheap. And if he's okay with coming out every other night, playing 50 games this year, and being available as a depth guy in playoffs,

I like him in that role. I think he'd probably be pretty thrilled if he played over 36. Yeah, that would be the number. 36 would probably be the number he'd like to get to. But I think it's uncommon for someone who's been a, you know, a multi-time all-star like Pacioretty to, we've seen it here in Toronto. Exactly. People don't actually want to be the fourth-line guy.

That's one of Kipper's. I've talked about this. Ten-pole take forever. Forever. And much like John Tavares, who we know doesn't have that. The last season and a half has not been anywhere near Pacioretty's with the drop-off, but when these guys have been used to their whole lives being the guy, and they're not the guy anymore, that's a tough pill to swallow it is and i think some people have

shown they can do it i thought spezza was the best example and i thought you know cory perry has evolved as a player to do it but it's very uncommon that guys like patch already then become useful in and out guys who stay at the top of their game. Say Giordano. Giordano never wanted to come out. So we have two separate clips on this. The first one is just the question about it. So can we get the clip two, please, Derek, on scratching patch ready? I think it's one decision to keep Max Pettiretti out of the lineup tonight. That's his decision I made.

That's it. Sam loves that. I love it. And then the second clip to message to pass patch ready clip three it's a message to max well he's got speed bobby it's a message to max there's no message it's like we have guys we have extra players and not everybody can play every night that's that's the bottom line i mean um you know he's he's been fine when he's played but i gotta make decisions as a coach and i'm gonna make those

decisions what i think is best for the team fine i'll get ready for that one all year long what's that my decision and it's what i think is best for the team i love that decision yeah i made it you don't need anything more than that well that's but that to me is what's horrible for our show but leadership a coach where it's just like you're not gonna get two minutes of word salad on what this guy needs to do or what this is or what that is i chose the guy not playing because i think we're better without him we have 14 14 forwards. I got to play 12. I thought we'd look best with this 12. End of story.

Is that the end of story? End of story. It's refreshing for me. I have to say it is refreshing. Boys, I'm drinking the Kool-Aid. It's okay, Sammy. We wouldn't expect anything less. I am chugging the Berube Kool-Aid.

After I had seven to eight Bud Lights the night before, I'm running to the convenienceging the Berube Kool-Aid. Like after I had like, no, seven to eight Bud Lights the night before, I'm running to the convenience store to get the Kool-Aid. Or the Gatorade. I'm chugging it. I'm chugging it. I am back. I am back. I love him.

It is, you know, what's your message to Max? I like that he's just like, I don't have one. You know, he'll get in again. Hopefully he plays better than fine. And fine is definitely not a good review from barubi now we're putting just for someone at that level where i've been a part of it on championship teams and teams that have struggled to get a sniff of the playoffs

there's the training camp where everybody comes in feeling great and refreshed new coach i get to start clean sheet of uh ice for me to you know paint impress and then somehow during the course of the next few weeks the next few months it sorts itself out who's who's in the inner circle who's on the outside looking in egos jealousy and it just has a way of sorting itself out yeah and sometimes strong rooms can overcome that and sometimes it kind of can chew you up a little bit and you got to let this run its course here because not everyone's feeling great. You know, the team's up 5-2.

When was the last time Tavares probably got an earful like that? Right? Yeah, I don't know. Let's see how he reacts next game or, you know. He went out and scored a goal, and I know you think bad save or whatever. A power play goal. Yeah, yeah. A power play goal.

I know, but he actually had another good opportunity on that power play. My point is he didn't go curl up in the fetal position and die. He went out and got a couple shot attempts and scored. Luckily, I wear this magical amulet. This is over the course, though, of 82 games and what's kind of going to be left. That's all. Right.

And, you know, Berube's going to be hard on these guys if you're up 5-2 and he's giving you earful like is he going to stay consistent on that is he going to is there going to be some times when you can't do it all the time because guys can also get real tired of it as well yeah like you've got a pretty you can't do it all the time. I'm telling you right now, that timeout was message sending early by Berube, not just for the players. There's the fans too. There's the whole world. That timeout was as much about I'm the new sheriff in town,

and this is the way I want it to be perceived, so let everybody know. But if he's going to kind of keep that foot on the gas pedal over 82 games, it's going to be tough on the guys. You want to hear him talk about it? Yes. About the timeout? All right. Clip 10, please, Derek.

Well, it was a feel thing for me last night. I didn't like what we were doing. And then I just wanted to, you know, get a break there and bring everybody in and talk a little bit about getting the intensity level up more than anything you know they were pushing hard I thought they they pushed hard in the second period too our intensity wasn't good enough it you know we got it back in the second and then the third you know you're up like that it's you know natural to drop off the intensity

level and uh we were soft a little bit on pucks and things like that and they were taking advantage of it so i wanted to call a timeout and you know kind of get everybody dialed in again the holmberg turnover right before the goal the second goal against was vile just a lackadaisical touch at the top of your, inside your own blue. He's had a few lapses this year. A couple ones on the power play. One where he cleared it onto somebody's stick. The one where he almost fell over to a tank shot in the net.

He's had a few lapses so far. So funny that last year, Keefe said the word soft, and it was a two-year-long saga. We played it ad nauseum. We talked about it. And last night, Berube said the exact same thing. And it's just like, yeah, you're right. Power play.

Austin getting on the board. Everything's good again. Who shoots a puck like that? How does he shoot it like that? I didn't even see it go in. I mean, it was like, okay, he fanned on it. He's off balance. And then it was just like, what?

Is that? It was in? Crushed it. Freakish. He loves to shoot the puck, though. He does. That skill. Even at bad angles, too.

Like, he's on the goal line. He's throwing it to the net. Oh, yeah. He scored a few like that last year, though. That's probably the way he did it. Like, the one against Buffalo. Yeah. He scored a few like that last year. That's probably why he did it. The one against Buffalo. The skill involved and the dexterity after an all-world fan.

He couldn't have fanned harder on that shot. And then just to pick it up and make it look like it's a fake. Like a head and on his toe. He likes to shoot it. He looked like he was pretty happy. Yeah, he wanted that one. Can I ask you guys a question?

I mentioned that with Nyes and the way Marner's looked so far and he's. Yeah, he wanted that one. Yeah. Can I ask you guys a question that with Nyes and the way Marner's looked so far, and he's really picked it up in his basketball game, but I thought he was awesome again last night. Who's that, Mitch? Mitch. On the backhand. Is there a potential that Nyes, Matthews, and Marner

could be the best line in the league? Yeah, they can. Well, there's times when they have the puck in their own zone and it's like LA looked paralyzed. i still you're not getting it back i so i am an unabashed matthew nye's fan but i still think that the chemistry with him and the other two it hasn't it's not there like i i don't see it necessarily like a not still feels like them two playing and him kind of standing around he's like a guy doing kind of a different thing and maybe he'll get there and but i don't do you see that at all i think there's so much growth in his game mentally as well that yeah just

when to hold on to the puck a little bit more when to move it when to go in and out when sometimes not go to the net but be an outlet like he's still he's still learning the game yeah and but he's so big and strong it's like watching a linebacker open up a hole for uh right a running back it's like a baby rhinoceros oh my gosh he's just a mule yeah um i just bobby mcmahon a little bit of that last night too i just thought he's improved even through four games he's looked better every game and i do think by game 10 or 15 that if he's seen a few go in and those guys are buzzing around i think they could not sure if he'll ever be like a top scoring winger. No, I don't think he will be. Can he score 80 points in the league?

But can he be Hyman? Not score 50, but what a younger Hyman used to do for those guys. I think if he can chip in 55, 60 points, that would be incredible. You think that's his ceiling? No. You think he can be an 80, 90 point guy? No. Okay, give me a number of that.

Well, 55 and 90 is a big swing. So 80, then you're right in the middle. Can he be a 70 point guy? Can he be a point a game guy? I think if he plays on that line at age 26, yes. He's 22, right? He just turned 23 maybe? Age 26.

I mean, well, that'll be three years with Mitch and the Blackhawks. So it'll be tough to be playing on a line like that. Jokes, jokes, jokes. I'm not sold on him. He just turned 22. Yeah, but I'm not sold on him being a top, top scorer. I think there's a chance that we look, you know, I remember you always telling me, like, Tom Wilson,

like, where do we get one of those? Yeah. And, like, not that Nize is going to fight people, but if you have a 230-pound guy who gets 60 points, 70 points. Yeah. I'm not sure where he is on the you know fu meter i think he's got to find it a bit i'd like to see a shorter fuse on him yeah but i don't know if it'll ever get there i think yeah i think if he can dial that up a bit that would go a long way that would go a long way and i think it's long way. And I think it's possible in a couple more years in the league

where you start to feel like this is mine, you can't take it from me. You know, when you realize what a monster you are, it could come. It could come for him still. Let's take a break and then we'll talk about Bobby McMahon and some other stuff when we come back. So before we go, I kind of gave him a little bit of a beef for deleting his Twitter message. This is what I get every once in a while.

Oh, God. From Stan the Man. Okay. Can you ask Sam to unblock me? I know we disagree sometimes, but he doesn't have to block me. So listen, I am pleading

for Stan the Man. Can you unblock him, please? I'll have a look. I'll review the case. It's okay if you disagree. Honestly, I am so, so, so, like it takes a lot for me to block somebody. I am not a blocker at all. I have lots of mutes, but not a lot of blocks. So he must have said something pretty dumb.

I was a proud, oh, I don't block many people until like two years ago. And it was liberating to be like, yeah, bye. Well, in the break, we'll review the case. And we'll get back to you on that one. Hey, Stan the man, I'm trying for you, buddy. I'm trying for you. All right. More of that in the Leafs on the Leaf edition of The Real Kipper and Bourne

after these words. Hey, it's Ailish Forfar. And I'm Justin Cuthbert. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the Fan Pre-Game, 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. mcgibrio's justin bourne and sammy mckee we're getting down to why stan the man blocked our sammy i will say i will say i went and reviewed the tapes yeah oh bit of a bit of a quick trigger by your boy I will say this is one of my quicker triggers. You can let him back in?

I might, yeah. Yeah, give him another chance. But I thought it was way worse. No, it was a quick trigger. I must have just been having a bad day. But he was basically, I was talking about Canada soccer, and he was all over me for being a casual soccer fan, which I'm not. I actually love soccer,

and I've been a huge soccer fan my entire life. He was all over me for that. He was sending me multiple tweets about it. And I was just having a bad day. So I hit the old block and it felt great. And at the time, it felt great. He called you a loser. But we've called you a loser. Yeah, but I like you guys.

Alright, I'm working on you, Stan. I'll try my best. Okay, McMahon, is he turning into a poor man's Matthew Knife? Poor man's Matthew Knife. Wow, he's not playing with Austin Matthews or Marner, but big, strong guy, can get to the neck and shoot it in. I thought, and I know we'll listen to Berube's clips after, I think it's hard when you've been a good

offensive player to just become a boring version of that when a coach is like, you're not our best goal scorer we want you to go on straight lines, do boring things and sometimes shoot it in, and I think that's what Berube's asking He smoked Anderson last night, did you see the hit? Yeah, smoked him

And he got in a little whatever with Deneau That we should see more of Did you see the hit? Yeah. Smoked him. Smoked him. And he got in a little whatever with the no. Tossel. That we should see more of. Right? And it doesn't have to end up being as good looking of a hit because those are hard as I've lived through it. But you should be, your intent should be that forceful all the time. If he runs into someone like that every other game

and he scores 15 to 20 goals and he's a free agent two summers from now, someone will give him, I don't know, $4 million a year. Oh, boy. If he scores 20 goals and he runs into people hard. You were trying to give him $3 million last year, Kipper. Stop it.

You were. You were. I said. You were. I said. You were paying the man. you were trying to give him three million last year kipper stop it you were you were i said i said you were paying the man i you want to go back to you want to go back to your tape on this one no i said that teams should be looking at him like saint louis looked at uh dylan holloway that's all to me holloway or mcmahon who would you want right now i mean honestly i like holloway quite a bit so but uh probably mcmahon i don't know today i'll take mcmahon for a game flip a coin yeah sure but my point is that like why aren't teams doing this and lorenz as well like how do you let this guy, who couldn't use that type of guy?

32 teams, who couldn't use that guy? Why wouldn't you have put an offer into him before the Leafs decided on a PTO? Yeah. I mean, that's just some dumb teams, I guess. LA probably could have used him. Yeah. I know there's contracts and i know that egos are involved and you think your team's great oh you want to honor your

scouts who told you that their guys are gonna turn don't worry about getting this guy i've got the guy for you in our organization i drafted him yeah let's let's listen to craig bruby talk about uh old bobathan here clip four please well he's got speed, Bobby, and, you know, he finished tonight, which was good to see. But he's a power forward. That's how we should think the game, night in and night out, is being a power forward with his skating and his size. He doesn't have to complicate the game, and he's going straight lines

and bang bodies and get to the net and score goals around the net god i would hate that oh i would hate hearing that from my coach i would hate it why because it would put pressure on you to be this guy all the time it would take the fun out of hockey right it's like asking you to be a worker which he is paid to be listen i'm not saying he shouldn't do it or it's not the right thing i'm saying saying I would hate personally hearing it. It would be hard to change the way you've always played. And both goals he scored last night, I mean, the first one he shot into a wide open net.

And the second one, it's like, I mean, Riddick was over in the near corner when he shot it into the wide open net. Like, they weren't both of them. So can, can he learn? Can he learn to be meaner? There's no learning. It's an easy thing he's being asked to do.

Are you willing to learn to do that every game? Are you willing to do it? Are you willing to be a ditch dater? And what's your guess? That he's going to pick and choose and take his foot off the gas pedal when it's three games and four nights in February? I'm amassing six-year-olds. Does anyone know where he went to school?

Is he an ivy guy i feel like he's a smart guy yeah i feel like he's an ivy guy i feel like he thinks he's too smart to be a ditch digger oh uh colgate there it is it's tough to tell a guy just turn it off dump it in run into people dumb it down you'll never get an argument on me on that i've lived it i've played with some of these guys who think you know they're willing to do something and they're not

I get it I should play with you know Marner and Matthews and once I'm with them the coach will see that I'm actually more of an offensive guy than he thought and you know I'll just make a couple more plays must be nice to play with Willie and Domi, though. Yeah, it's not bad.

The puck's finding you a lot. The pass that Willie makes off the sideboard just sees him down the middle of the ice, hits him right in the tape, and the other one just lands on his stick in the slot, too. That was a great play by McCabe, the other one who zips it through to Domi and puts it on net.

He's just getting stronger and more confident and looks more like a leader than he ever has prior. He's in a sweet spot. But like we've talked about earlier, and you mentioned at the top of the show, that blue line feels different with OEL and Tanev. It just seems like maybe guys are slotted a little bit more. Yeah.

Morgan picked his spot last night to come down the slot. D-man to D-man high tip is not something you see a whole lot, but it was a nice goal. Yeah. Do we have a clip of Ruby talking about defending? We have a clip, yeah. It's just about them, the lack of goals against so far this year. What's the number?

Is it seven? Four even strength goals in four games against, which really, really good. So we'll have clip nine, please, Derek. I think the mindset, more than anything, is there with the checking side of things. We're pretty tight on people. We're not giving up odd man rushes. So we've got to continue to stress that, not giving up odd man rushes.

You know, I thought we were in our end too much last night. You know, I'm not sure I mentioned that to you guys. But for me, we let them come at us a little bit too much. We didn't get up enough and, you know, in the neutral zone well enough. But in saying that, we were good at our net, and we were good in the slot area, keeping them outside. You know, they shot a lot of pucks from the point. See, and you guys have heard me the last few years on bad pitches.

Mm-hmm. You know, and that's outside of a few turnovers in the neutral zone last night. We have not seen blatant 150-foot two-on-ones coming down the other end. That has cleaned up in the first four games. I was trying to find rush numbers, but it's definitely been better. And that goes such a long way for a team like the leafs who you used to look at the sometimes they get a little run and gunny and you and you would often say on our show like that's just not playoff hockey that's just not sustainable and that's why they lost the montreal canadians years ago in the north division not managing the clock and not yeah picking your spots like there's obviously there's times to gamble there's times to take educated guesses but they were they've been horrible over the years

on that you know we haven't talked about him a lot this year but uh benoit slotted on the third pair is so nice you know not that he's been exceptional this year he hasn't been good bad or otherwise but when he was playing second pair with mccabe a little above his ability probably right but you feel very good about a guy who defends the blue line finishes his check he's a good third pair guy um so once they figure out whoever he's going to play with played 20 minutes last night did he really he did 20 29 last night 1235 on saturday against pittsburgh so it'll be interesting if hockin pod does come in and stretches out a few games here where he kind of fits in um unimagined with benoit probably on the what a couple of you need two of them i mean you think i think a lot of people would say you'd like someone to break the puck out.

That's what I'm thinking. Like two of them at that, I don't know, maybe the chemistry would work, maybe it won't, but it's, is it one of those things where Hockenpah's actually looked upon that if Benoit goes down or if he's not available, then we got him to kind of slot in and take over that role or is there actually a a role in a top six one day for both of them to be in the lineup

yeah i guess that does remain to be seen i don't have the answer to that i gotta see them together i guess that's probably why they've tried they had timmons with benoit who's a guy who quote unquote snaps it and can break it out and play with a more defensive guy. And then they tried Lilligren last night, who's sort of supposed to be that guy as well. But I guess the reason that Benoit's number is bumped up is because five guys played way more than the sixth guy, right? Would it bother you if Tano's the only right-handed D?

Yeah. Wouldn't it bother you? I'd like another one for sure. Yeah. Yeah, you know, like you can't help but feel like Timmons is going to find a way to fall down a manhole cover or something without the cover on it or something. I guess that would be just called the manhole.

But, you know, he's had bad luck in his career. He had mono at one point. So if he's healthy, though, I'd rather see Timmons get back in, let him have a chance of running away with the job here. Yeah. All right. Do we get a little broovy love on OEL? He talked about him today and what he liked about him.

Well, he's a player that's played a lot of minutes in this league at times. You know, last year, you know, he's probably around 20 or just under a little bit, and penalty kill and things like that. He, right now, is an all-situational guy for us. So, depending on the game and what's going on in the game and, you know, the flow of the game, that'll determine the minutes for him. I will say, right now, so if the season was four games long, Brad Treliving will have had

the greatest offseason in the history of hockey. Each edition has been very good. Stolarz has been unbelievable, godsend for them, who we barely even mentioned, but was good again last night. You know, Ekman, Larson, and Tanev have changed the decor. Ekman, Larson's like running into people.

You want the Stanley Cup playoffs to start right now. Lorenz may be one of the best fourth-liner signings in the league. In the history. Yeah. And Domi's been unbelievable. He's lead the team in points, got five assists already. It's like, wow, Triliving wants it to start right now.

Yeah. Can we fast-forward to the state? I think you want it to start right now, the first round. You're right, I do. We can't leave the Leafs hour without getting an update on Joseph Wolfe. Oh, yeah. Yeah, this is a really good update. Clip seven, please.

Very good. He's doing well. Keep him going here. We'll see where he's at tomorrow. You have a good chance he's a full go tomorrow? That's a good question. I think we'll see how today goes you know and then we'll make a decision on it so we're we're not gonna rush him would you

put him in we're not gonna rush him would you put him in against the rangers what a bubble i'd put him in a bubble would you put him in against tampa bay columbus second half of the back-to-back that's where he's going. What's that? Tuesday. Tuesday. Yeah, Tuesday's good. Yep. That means you're giving the hill to Beast, either Tampa Bay or the Rangers,

or you're going Stolarz, Stolarz. Stolarz, Stolarz, baby. He's the starting goalie. You know how good he's been? I don't even think about Wall. I know. I'm like, there's another guy that's going to come in here? It was last night. I don't think about you at all.

Exactly. Most insulting thing ever. I don't think about you at all. Exactly. Most insulting thing ever. I don't. Did they mention that consecutive starts in the NHL, that was the first time last night that he's played three games in a row in the NHL? I think they did mention that, yeah. So now you're going to go five times in a row.

Yeah, first time in a row. He's played five in a row, too. Hey, great test. Why not? Why not? Yeah. The way it's been, you're going to need them. I've got to wish Lori a happy 60th birthday.

You know who Lori is? Tell me. It's Mike Fuda's sister. And you know why I have to do it? Why? Because he forgot in his own show. Oh, my God. Happy birthday, Lori.

Big now media superstar, Mike Fuda. Couldn't even think of his name. Couldn't even remember his sister's birthday. Oh, wow. And he reached out to you. He felt that bad? Yeah. What a guy.

Happy birthday. Happy birthday. Now Kip is going to sing to it. All right. Don't go away. My bad. Still warming up here. For all your birthday wishes on The Real Kipper and Bourne Show,

send a note to Sammy. Yeah. Yeah, send a note to Cammy. We're back with the National Hour coming up next.