Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Undermanned Against Utah

Episode Date: November 22, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look ahead to the Leafs' Sunday matchup against the Utah Hockey Club. They discuss Matthew Knies going on IR, Alex Nylander's signing as a corresponding move, Nick Robertson's potential final top-six opportunity and John Tavares' recent elevated play. Later, they dip into the mailbag to answer your Leafs questions and touch on the Atlantic Division landscape, a potential Toronto reunion with Nazem Kadri, Max Domi's struggles, and much more.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

what a jam-packed week we've had on the real kipper and born show and it's not even over no we got another day full of questions to answer nick kiprios justin born sammy mckee derek brandeo and jake the snake schultz with you for the next two hours as we kick it off in our leaf hour edition that jam-packed week just had one game for the toronto maple leafs versus vegas and yet it's just storyline after storyline for us got off to a pretty good start on monday and it hasn't really let up jb good that's great and there's more alex kneelander is a toronto maple leaf he signed a contract today a one one-year league minimum, 775. Before we get to that. Oh.

I just wanted to say, I don't know if Bunkus did this on his show today, but I went to a concert last night with J.D. Bunkus and my wife. Oh, okay. Good concert? Excellent concert. Sturgill Simpson, kind of a rock folk country. It was unbelievable. Three hours of pure rock and roll

at massey hall great venue and we were having a conversation that you know a lot of people would make fun of swifties for like the glitter and the friendship bracelets and all like like the costumes that they wear and then i went to the concert and i'm like, oh, so our costume is just a plaid jacket, jeans, and a hat. And it's like literally every single dude there, we all had the same. We had the outfit on. We saw white guy Taylor Swift last night, Sergio Simpson. We were all wearing the same outfit. You didn't go to the concert exactly the way you look now.

No, no, no. This is dressed up, Sam. No, listen. I mean, you get what you look now. No, no, no. This is dressed up, Sam. No, listen. You know. I mean, you get what you pay for. You didn't want to sell your concert ticket last night for six grand? No. No, I bought my concert ticket yesterday.

But it's funny. Because, you know, you make fun of the Swifties for all their, like, glitter. And I'm like, you know what? I will say, I had a friend who went to the Taylor Swift concert last night. Yeah. Shout out, Sam.

And she said it was like damn near religious experience. It's more than a concert, she said. You know, it's a show. It's a full Super Bowl halftime show. And tomorrow's the last time we got to talk about it. Yeah. Is it? Yeah, it's done tomorrow night.

Six. Yep. Last night's tomorrow, right? New Jay's Way is currently Taylor Swift Way. Sick. You know that? Is that what they're calling it now officially? They sure are.

You know, if you bring millions of dollars to town, people will let you do a lot of things. Including? It's a good rule of thumb. The whole police force.

Yeah. Driving around. Whatever you need at your disposal. Yeah. And then Millie's. They got to get the horse's friendship bracelets,

obviously. All right, Sammy, where do we start? Do we, you mentioned Nylander, you guys, and that's based on the fact that Nyes will not be around this weekend for the Toronto Maple Leafs, unavailable.

He's ruled out Sunday versus Utah. Why don't we listen? Oh, do you have something on this for the coach? Yeah, I think we'll play the Nyes update, then I can talk about what he's doing. All right. Flip one, please. Yeah, same.

Like, you know, he's improving, which is good. So that's good news. That's about it. Sunday remains on the table, potentially? No. Beyond Sunday. Do you have a timeline beyond Sunday for him? No, not right now.

Like I said, it's upper body still. And, you know, if he keeps progressing in the right direction, then, you know, possibility down the road here. Okay. Was that actually Craig Bruby talking about Matthew Nyes? Or did you just clip out Matthews and then put Nyes in there as a substitution because that sounded exactly the same? Upper body, progressing, not quite ready.

Little from column A and little from column B. We'll see. So the reason that the Leafs are in this predicament with Matthew Nyes now on IR is because of the hit that I was going to say we yelled at each each other about but i yelled at you guys about yesterday and you yelled at me is the player safety thing yesterday was remarkable to me that leaf nation i guess has been so outspoken and so you know loud about this department and there's other teams that have had issues with them. The Rangers. Be happy about the league showing

preferential treatment for you and Leaf Nation that they would go out and make a video just for you. Here's what I'll say. You're going to call balls and strikes. You got to show people where a strike zone is. They're trying to do it for you. Not just any people though.

Maple Leafs. Right. There's a loud. If that same hit happened in Columbus, there's no video. No. I mean, yeah, that's for sure. And I just think it's pretty remarkable that George Peros is such a diehard listener of Real Kipper Unborn. I think it's a really amazing, you know, that the guy listens to our show every day. And he's like, I got to put out a video, a super murky, confusing video that doesn't give you the answers to anything.

We gave you the clean version. He's put out a six minute video trying to convince everybody on these bang, bang plays. All you're doing is confusing people more. Well, there's some point you can't help people then. No. Because it's like, hey, north-south hits are legal unless you jump. East-west hits, a little more difficult to execute

and you might catch the head. Be careful. Yeah, I just, I don't know. It just was very murky to me and just felt like, like he's listening. Felt like he, you know, it's like somebody. I would say they're listening to the greater. it's like somebody. I don't think they're listening to the greater noise. It's like somebody trolling me on Twitter every day being like,

you're an idiot, you're an idiot, and finally I explode on them. It's like finally they gave the response to the people. I think it's an intense amount of ego to assume that you or we have created this at all. I'm talking about me as a whole with the fan base. This is their, the Leafs fans have this department in their crosshairs. There is no fan base that leans on this department near as much as the Leafs fans do. We do have ample proof that it's a lot more sensitive for the league office, the safety department, when it comes to things that happen in Toronto compared to anywhere else in the league. For's a given it's definitely it's where it's live yes so i give you that okay

thanks but i got one yes that one gets you a cup of coffee yeah so right it's good on them for trying to explain something and now matthew nise is on the IR with a clean hit. I will say this, that lots of people appreciated your effort on behalf of Leaf Nation. They did. You got a lot of love last night for sticking up for yourself against me and JB. That's not what I'm looking for here. No. I got the equal side of the other ones, too. You got to read my mans out there. Yeah, that's nice. That's not what I'm looking for here. No. I got this equal side of the other ones too.

You got to read my mans out there. Yeah, that's nice. That's nice. Again, that and the cup of coffee. That's all you get. Yeah. Right? Barely.

So, no, I just, I thought it was a pretty interesting video and they have literally never done anything like that ever. I wonder if they'll start doing it a little bit. Like, it is nice to not just have the suspensions explained, but sometimes the non-suspensions too. Just like, here's why this didn't meet the standards. I think that provides some clarity for people.

We don't know how long Matthew Nyes will be out, but I would probably guess maybe two weeks. I think they're a little bit closer on the let's be very careful side here. There seems to be a history here. We know what happened when he first got called up against the Tampa Bay Lightning, getting a concussion. He did, right. Forgot about that.

Was it Tampa Bay or Florida? It was Florida maybe. It was Bennett. Yeah, right. Thankgot about that. Was it Tampa Bay or Florida? Florida, maybe. It was Bennett. Yeah, right. Thank you for clarifying that. When you defended Bennett for assaulting him behind the eye, Bennett punching him in the head. I don't defend anything.

I just tell you the way it is. That's all. At least he let it go. There is some concern about a guy that has shown signs of being uh prone to concussions you know they absolutely and cross my mind too right you don't it's scary when guys start to pile them up but then you know like a guy like sydney crosby he had issues early in his career and some guys just yeah no no. Yeah. No, no, no. I'm just saying, though, like if he ends up being like a day-to-day

for two weeks or three weeks, don't be surprised. Oh, really? Yeah. That's basically the point I'm trying to make. Yeah, yeah. Just at first blush, after it happened, he was clearly like, you know, in trouble. But when he got to the bench, and he was sort of sitting there on the bench, and they put the camera on him, you know, in trouble. But when he got to the bench and he was sort of sitting there on the bench

and they put the camera on him, you know, you see some guys that take it, they got their head down. Like it looked to me that he was all right. Like it just, he looked like he was there. He looked like he was looking around. Like he looked like he was a little bit. I didn't get that at all.

You got the opposite? I saw, I got the spacey guy. Did you? Okay. So you're not surprised that this is going to be a longer term thing oh i'm not saying that it will be he hope he can wake up on the weekend and feel great and want to play as early as next wednesday is that florida sunday wednesday saturday sunday wednesday saturday so i think at the earliest he'd be, if everything points in the right direction, he'd be pushing to, I want to play in Florida.

So when you played, you said you've had like five or six concussions. Is that? Again, they're, what I deem a concussion, what you deem getting your bell rung or shaking off the cobwebs. But yeah, I think we'd be in the ballpark. Right. So what is it like? So I never had any diagnosed concussions.

What is it like when you're trying to get back? You know, your days removed from the hit. What does that feel like? It's whatever your symptoms are. And somebody can get hit in the same spot and your, your equilibrium's off. Mine's okay, but I got sharp headaches and everybody can have,

everybody's wired the way they're wired and you can have different symptoms. If we pretty much got hit the same way, but the general feel is whatever you're suffering. If you come back too early you're just putting your foot on the accelerator of a car and you're speeding up all those symptoms fully clear of it all you have to be fully clear so as far as i'm concerned there there has to be some protocol now where you come back you ride a bike for 20 minutes half an hour you're symptom free you don't feel like you're you know gonna fall off of it right and then you progress uh but i i think

i think it's standard now on a hit like that that a guy should be out seven to ten days guaranteed guaranteed that's what they do in the nfl now with like the i forget because like the two a rule or whatever but i think it's i forget what the actual rule is minimum you're missing the next yeah like they've put in some stuff with that too you know there is something to be said for just being out for a long period of time seven days get like guaranteed if it's a concussion i actually don't mind that but like you can probably i'm just speaking i'm not speaking from experience here but i'm sure you can wake up one day being like, you know what? Today is great.

I actually, I'm ready to rock. And then you step one foot on the ice and you're like, oh, my God, I am not ready to rock. And the other thing, too, is, like, I don't know to what degree you've been in a car accident, right? Yeah, I have. I also took a slap shot to the face, so I have some sense of. I was in a head-on collision when I was a kid.

Yeah. Okay. When I was a kid with my dad, yeah. But it's like. Plains a lot. It's like. Just going to make that joke, and I chose not to. Whatever level of a car accident you've been into,

the next time you're in a car, you feel a lot more vulnerable. For sure. Right? Yep. And you're like, it's a little unnerving a little bit it's not that much different when you're coming off a concussion to go back on the ice and then feel take that first contact take that first contact or where are you on time and space how comfortable are you to dr dana's point? How much anxiety are you feeling around?

You know, Gary Gally made an excellent point on the hit, which we never discussed all week, was the back pressure and how that probably played a key role in Nye's now looking at different angles to get a puck in. Thinking about that way rather than this way. So all of that comes into play. How's he going to feel when he comes back in? You know, he has had a notion of leaning in a lot.

And we've seen him. He's laid out some big hits this year. Oh, yeah. Him and Pacioretty, they've been real big and heavy on the body here you hope that he just picks up where he left off when he comes back but there's a sense that once you get hit like this on a couple occasions it takes a while to come back and get your comfort zone i wonder if this would encourage him to sign a long-term contract you know what i mean just like the fear of like you never know just that reminder that like nothing is guaranteed in this game and it

can be taken away and you feel like you're at a peak here we've got like over the years we've got a ton of examples of guys just saying hit that number and i'll sign it yeah and you could regret it in a year or two and you're gonna have to live with that at least you're getting something mark scheifele's to me is a perfect example of that on a couple occasions he just he signed early because he wanted he just wanted that security and although i i don't know what he's at now, eight on a long term. Him and Hellebuck were both 2-5, right? Yeah. Which is fine.

But my point is we expect it to skyrocket here in the next two or three years. Yeah. And there might be some remorse. But to your point, at least it's money they know is there and it's coming in and it's good enough. So I think you make a very, very good point here that if he's, I don't know. Yeah, we talked about seven times eight before. I think I'll do that. I don't know what degree he's been knocked around in college,

but if he's had a couple already, maybe if you're the Leafs, you pitch him that way. And plus, you may never get back in after Alex Nylander and Nick Robertson score 10 goals each over the next couple weeks. Before we move on to that, just for Leaf fans,

this rots big time. Because he was for me one one of the my favorite parts of watching this season like there's just his progression the new well no just like he is yeah he's the first kind of guy that they've had that comes up under the core that has actually contributed like the act like the draft pick that comes in and he's overperforming his contract. He just looks great. He's big.

He's strong. And it's just, this one worries you. Concussions are a scary thing. So, hope he's okay. But it sucks for Leaf fans. Now, if I told you by game 20, if I would have told you before the season started by game 20, the Toronto Maple Leafs down the middle would look like Tavares,

Holmberg, Minton, and Dewar. You would have looked at me like I had a third eye on my forehead. I don't believe you. I would have believed it provided you told me the record was six and 14. Yeah. I was going to say they weren't going to be in first place in the Atlantic

division. I wouldn't believe that part of it. Yeah. I mean, it's thin brother it's real thin um holmberg is got to be has anyone been given more opportunity while providing less than holmberg so far this season i know we all like him in here and think he's a solid centerman but god give me something one night where i go good play barube after the last game said it was his best game of the year okay you have to you have to convince me on that one like he shot it into the empty net i guess that almost he almost missed but i thought sure i guess he was

playing with nylander maybe that makes you look a little bit better you want to throw a guy a bone and get him feeling good yeah but i didn't i didn't see a ton from him, but I guess the coach did. So Robertson, I do think Robertson, you know, maybe this is what he needs, right? He gets an opportunity up the lineup. McMahon got an opportunity up the lineup, and all of a sudden he's found his game again. I know, and he's older. He's the oldest out of all of them.

Yeah. But, I mean, there's times when you've watched McMahon and you've wanted to almost write him off too. Like, you still got to be patient with these guys. And I know it hasn't looked good for Holmberg lately, but when he's on, there's a physical presence there. Yeah. And if they're winning,

then you can be patient with some of these guys, and that includes Nick Robertson, who's got one goal. I mean, Holmberg, I think offensively some of the stats, he's like one of the worst in terms of offense, like producing offense well on ice, which you can see. Robertson has gotten better at a lot of little things this year. You know, we always said, like, if he could do the little details,

eventually, you know, he's going to score goals, and you just need to be able to do things when you're not scoring. Details have been fine. You got to shoot some in the net, though. He does all the stuff except the thing that you want him to do. Right. It's like we were asking him to do these details between the goals, but there still needs

to be goals. There's a big sort of faction of Leafs Nation that really, really wants Robertson to work and really loves Nick Robertson and believes that he hasn't gotten enough opportunity and believes that there's still more to give. It really is a part of the fan base that exists. This is the last stand, boys. This is the last stand.

But you need a vision to say, what does that look like? I don't agree with it. What does it look like? Like, okay, you were high on his stock at the beginning, right? So you thought maybe he had a real legitimate shot at 25 goals?

I said he could score 25 goals on a bad team. Okay. But what did you have? I think he could have scored 20. No, we did an over-under on the Leafs. I said 20 for the year for the Leaf on a bad team. Okay. But what did you have? I think he could have scored 20. No, we did an over-under on the Leafs. I said 20 for the year for the Leafs, over 20. Okay. And how did you envision that on the third line? Yeah.

I mean, last year, he scored 14 times in 57 games, playing 11 and a half minutes on the third line. So to me, he was a guy who doesn't need a lot of opportunity to shoot it in the net. He just needs to play 82 games. You get enough looks. The way he shoots the puck he's gonna score 20. I've changed my mind on that that was my preseason mentality.

Okay what changed your mind? I would say just the lack of chances he's getting and part of that is to me playing with guys who haven't put him in spots but that's concerning that he can't create his own shots he just He's not getting... There's very few moments, and he had one off a rush last game where I'm like, he usually puts that in. He's just not getting opportunities at all. What's his shots per game? He's actually, I think, in

15 of the 20 games this year, he's had one shot. He's not getting shots. Is he not an elite enough thinker on the ice to get in those spots or is it a physical thing because we we do know that that guys that are that size have had success but we're talking about like elite elite and he's he was elite coming out of junior yeah but that's the next biggest best league in the world now i love I love the point you're making here,

which I think is if you're going to be small and a scorer in the league, you got to have this offensive brain that's like Cole Caulfield. Off the charts. Johnny Goodrow, Marner, Kane. And he doesn't have that. No.

He doesn't see the ice of that. Listen, Cole Caulfield, I don't know what he has, 13 goals? Yeah, he might be near the top of the league. Half of them are off the post on the power play. Yeah. So it's hard for him too. Yeah. And let's not mention Conor Bedard,

who's supposed to be much stronger physically with the big legs. Like this guy can't get a sniff now. Mm-hmm. like this guy can't get a sniff now so like elite elite at that size is the only way to go and can you name any players in the league who are that size not elite elite in terms of offensive producers or thinkers or whatever but guys who just score 15 or 20 at 5'9". Zuccarello. Okay. And he's competitive, physical.

Elite thinker, though. Same. Okay. But not to score big numbers. Right. But to be effective. Right spots. And have a presence.

Connor Garland. And can influence a hockey game. Connor Garland. And he's in your face in the crease falling on the goalie but he's not scoring people are like i want his dad he's got a he's got a bad face bad face good wearing that turtleneck up to you just like all you want to do is hammer it's the best yeah you know but like so we're naming a very specific type of guy who isn't cole caulfield and then beyond that there's no one who's

just kind of waits around to score 15 and plays like it doesn't exist in the league no so he's young he's getting opportunity here he has to score goals now uh do you want to hear the coach talk about it yes on an opportunity potentially to get in the top six very much so uh i think it's clip what clip is it well i mean he's getting some looks. He had a couple last game. He's just got to keep working. He's working hard. He's skating and using his speed. And, you know, he got a chance to play with, you know,

we'll see here going on Sunday. But with Willie, you know, he gets in a good area of the ice and gets open. You know, there's a guy that can find him. And, you know, just he's got to put a couple in and get some confidence. I would like to see him with Marner. Way rather see him with Marner.

Willie's a shooter. Robertson's a shooter. Holmberg creates less offense than David Kampf. I'm not splitting up Marner and Tavares and McMahon right now to try to get Robertson going. That's a good point. That's a good point. I don't need Robertson to be carried around by Marner.

Like, try it. It's not that you got the secret sauce in the third week of November here, but you're not really messing too much up here. No. Because it does give you the success, the goaltending, the shutdown, and I know you're going to get into some numbers here, but you're not – Berube's not messing with too much here. I mean, I guess not, you know, like it's nothing solid.

Like the only, we're sitting here going, we can't break up Tavares, Marner and McMahon. They've been together for four games. When your lineup has eight regulars out, if you have a line that's like halfway decent yeah yeah untouchable i'm with you i'm with you that i get why they're doing it but i just like again like i'm listening to ruby and he's being very careful and complimentary like but you don't need to go put pressure on Nick Robertson right now to go score. Why not?

You don't. No, not put pressure on him. Just say. Because it's the greater picture of the team. That's why. And it's not, hey, everything's great, but, you know, Nick, like what am I going to do with you? No, you're right.

In the public, there's no point. There's no point. There's no point. There's no point. I don no point. There's no point. I don't think behind the scenes they're, hey, come to the rink, work hard, and let's just all hope for the best. But this is how you treat someone you've given up on. You know, when you're like, oh, just let him do his thing

and we'll get rid of him eventually. If we didn't have eight guys out, he probably wouldn't be here anyway. I don't know what giving up means. Well, it means if you don't want to talk to him behind scenes either, you're just going on. Yeah, whatever. You'll always value. If you're with the parent club right now,

and even if you're a healthy scratch or not, you are of value to us. You are an asset. So if it means staying positive for you, if it means flipping you in a week or at the trade deadline i i gotta keep you engaged i cannot give you any thought other than listening to the real kipper and born show that you have no chance of ever playing in a playoff game i gotta i gotta ask i'm gonna ask the question here are we sure nick sure Nick Robertson isn't closer to waivers than he is to trade?

Yeah. Yeah, we're sure. Yeah, he's still got value. He will get claimed. Yeah. He will get claimed. But, like, what are you going to get from a seventh, a sixth? Like, they're not getting anything for him.

No, but you. Kip keeps saying the word package. You could put a package together, and I think there could be some value in an additional. In a team going, I can't score. I can't score. Johnny D will throw in an amulet. Right? We can't score.

Let's give the kid a shot. That's the way it usually works. San Jose, Columbus, Philly. Absolutely. Utah. I would pick him up in a heartbeat. I do believe he can score with a chance. Once upon a time.

Yeah, this preseason when he tricked everybody again? Once upon a time once upon a time yeah this preseason when he tricked everybody again once upon a time quit scamming adults i told you i tried to say he was gonna be a star i tried to say at the end of the trade right this second it was like oh this is the year this is the year once upon a time marty saint louis was kind of like nick robertson oh my yeah craig button oh go go back go back to calgary buddy go back to nick uh marty st louis and nick roberts was picked in the second round marty st louis was undrafted i'm not talking about like where you came in from and what yeah what your upside was coming out of college or junior. I'm just saying, small player, not sure he can play in this league. That's all.

Okay. I just, I know we're going to be sitting in here next year, and at some point Sam's going to go, God, Robertson got his 11th goal in 12 games. No, I will not be doing it. There'll be a stretch of play where, not that you want him, but are we sure? You made it aware to me today.

You were like, where's Timothy Lilligren play again? I was like, San Jose. And I did have to Google that. And he's leading. He's playing like 20 minutes a night. Haven't thought about him since. Okay. We got some love for John Tavares.

Yeah. He's just talking about how great he is. Okay. But do you want to hear it? Okay. Let's play it. Well, he's played good hockey. I mean, even before Austin went out, I know he was sick for a bit,

kind of pushed him back a little bit. But since he's got his, you know, feeling good again, he's been great. I think, you know, he's so good and tight positionally and really strong on his stick winning one-on-one battles. And, I mean, his work ethic is outstanding. And, you know, he's just going to be solid all the time because of his work ethic and, I think, you know, his experience as a player.

And, you know, on both sides of the puck, he's done a real good job for us. Okay. You know, that's perfect. We're going to do some questions here. So just for those of you that aren't following sam on his social media you put out a message today saying that you're encouraging everybody to send in questions uh-huh on our off the rails friday which will include doug mclean at the top of the

hour and i have a perfect one off the back of that uh a clip and this is from leaf's truth on twitter what are the odds of john tavaris making team canada he is tied for 12th amongst canadian forwards and points this year he is dominating faceoffs has a long hockey canada resume has captain uh and captain canada at the world championships just six months ago 15 forwards make the roster yeah 15 forwards make the roster. Yeah. 15 forwards make the roster? According to Leafs, truth. And maybe Leafs lie. 4%. 4% chance.

Yeah, I don't see them going to Tavares under any circumstances. I will say it's, you know, I put out my tweets on Macklin Celebrini today, which on my Twitter account, Celebrini's tops of all these sneaky categories. Tavares shows up in a lot of stuff. He's second in the NHL in puck battle wins. He's competitive. He's hit a lot of posts. For me, he's pushing harder

than I've ever seen. Good on face-offs. Yeah. Does that not sound like a good fourth-line center for Team Canada? Do you think it is? I'm not totally... At the start of the year, I would have laughed you out of the room. But watching him play since he's been sick, he's been excellent. Adam Lowry?

Yeah, I'd rather have Lowry. I mean, I don't think Adam Lowry is in consideration, is he? Who would you rather have? On the team? Probably John Tavares. Oh, bud, you haven't been paying attention to Winnipeg. Yeah, I have. They're really good.

They're 16-3 and 0. They lost to the Leafs. He's been the best third-line centerman in the league. And super, super effective. Yeah, I know. End of story. But when you can have a team's first-line center as your fourth-line center, that's probably what you do.

They did that in 2010. They did that. Okay. And he was there 14 years ago to help be that role guy. I'm not all in on this. I'm just saying there's way more of an argument than there used to be.

34 years of age. Or 33 turning 34. I'm not sure what it is. It's like it's moved on. It's just moved on. He was the captain of the world championship team last year. Yeah. What place did they finish?

I don't know. They almost lost to Germany. That's a show. Right? What did he finish? Dead last? I think they almost lost. They blew a five goal lead to Germany maybe in that tournament.

Listen, it was wonderful. Lost to the Switzerland in the shootout. Did you get a ribbon for fourth? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They did. I don't think it's out of the question.

I'm not taking. If it's 50. I'm not taking 50 i'm not taking anything away from what he's been able to do the man has been he's his back has been against the wall it was not a fun day watching your kids put on a matthews jersey with a c on it like come on let's be honest here yeah and then there's others and i've challenged him to find another role as as as well as he's played up until this point do you envision now him being the second line centerman for the toronto maple leafs to try to win the stanley cup or are they going to go out

and try to find something else that can can move him in and out of it depends of importance like if you can find a good third line center then yeah i don't think in and out of it depends on the importance like if you can find a good third line center then yeah i don't think it's out of the question i do think that it's important that they actually deal with these guys in a way we've talked about where there should be legitimate rest intentional rest for a guy like him to get the most out of we talked about mark giordano in past years and like rest this guy, rest this guy. And they're like, well, he doesn't like it. It's like maybe he doesn't know best. Too bad. And that's how I feel

with Captain Amulet here that maybe sitting out a couple of matches might be best for the fresh legs. Let's go to break and I'll take a bunch of questions after the break. Okay, you heard the man. He is Sammy. And he's our producer. More of the mailbag with Sammy after the break on Real Kipper and Born.

Hey, it's Ailish Forfar. And I'm Justin Cutford. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the Fan Pre-Game, 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee on this Off the Rails Friday. So, no Adam Lowry, Anthony Cirelli, as JB has on his list.

Yeah. Is that good for you? Over Tavares? Cirelli? Yes. I like Cirelli. Down the middle, McDavid, McKinnon you? Over Tavares? Cirelli? Yes. I like Cirelli. Down the middle, McDavid, McKinnon, Point, Crosby, Cirelli. Pretty good.

Pretty good. I like the forwards a lot for Canada. Really good. Really good. Anyways, you guys want to do some more questions here? All right. All right. What do you got for us, Sam? This one's from atzacksmith44.

The Leafs currently in first in the division. Do you guys think they'll be able to stay there at the end of the season? And if they do, how much better are their odds of going deep in the playoffs? Third round or better? How about two rounds? Third round or better is crazy. But the question is the first in the division. Yes.

Very much on the table. Very much. And go for it. Yeah. uh very very good chance uh looked at it a little bit today i've got an article up on their uh quarter season performance the thing that gets me is the second wild card team like whoever sneaks in not going to be great probably right like boston's 500 there's eight teams within two points of them basically the first wild card team right now is the New York Rangers, who have a 684 winning percentage.

The Metro has some good teams. You're probably going to draw a pretty good team if you don't win the East. Like, if you win the Atlantic, finish behind the top team in the Metro, you're playing one of the Devils, the Capitals, or the Rangers, probably. Which is fine, better than Florida.

There has never been a more guaranteed lock than Sheldon Keefe's Devils. I actually do think it's very likely that Leafs win their division and they draw the Devils in round one. And they win. Timestamp, November 22nd, 439. And the New Jersey Devils win.

No. But as far as Florida and Tampa Bay, they've gotten weaker. If that makes any sense. They're still good, but they haven't gotten better. And there's a chance that with a tight salary cap as well, I don't know how much they're going to be able to improve, but that can be said for the Toronto Maple Leafs as well. Yeah.

But, like, Tampa Bay's still got guys in their prime, but Vasilevsky has looked a lot more human than he ever has before. They gave him a touchdown at Columbus last year. You just wonder about wondering about again wear and tear on them florida's got some issues still they're the best team in the atlantic but right now they they certainly look like today that they are the to your point the best and you know it'll be nice to see them healthy if that'll ever happen but um like what'll happen if they get cali yarn cro? They get all seven

back. It's going to look very different. It's going to look good. Quite good. This one's from our friend Nick Richard. Would love to get your guys' thoughts on the White Cloud hit and what Marner's next contract might look like. Watch Monday and Wednesday's show. Send them a

tape of Monday and Wednesday's show. Shout out my boy nick that's a yeah that was a good one yeah um a lot of buzz about a possible return this is classically fans of cadre or ryan o'reilly as the two three c this week if you could only take one guy back who are you taking out of those two oh? Oh, Kadri all day long. Stanley Cup champion now. And not that O'Reilly isn't, but I take Kadri. Kadri makes $7 million until 2029.

And I believe O'Reilly makes $4.5 for three more years. It's enough for me to say O'Reilly. I also just prefer O'Reilly makes four and a half for three more years. It's enough for me to say O'Reilly. I also just prefer O'Reilly. O'Reilly left here, had the option of signing, and did not like it here. Doesn't want to be here. So why? He's not coming here.

Kipper, you know as well as anyone that there was conflicting reports as to why he left here. And everyone said that it was the market, and he hated the the market and he hated the market and he hated the limelight but there was also a lot of people talking about the relationship with sheldon keith with him the smoke and the fire with that it's like well berube is the guy he won the cup with i'll be honest i never heard that what we did the show where it was like a thing oh yeah that was a whole thing ryan o'reilly and yeah yeah i've heard a

a lot of different things. Was that one? That was a thing. That was like a narrative we talked about. I remember. I can't wait to do 100 shows a week. Sheldon's devils are going pretty well here. Let's not drag Sheldon into this. Here's what I know.

Ryan O'Reilly didn't want to be here. It's like anything else. You're going to have a group of guys in a room that they get tired of the head coach and where ryan sat on all of that i i don't know but i probably guess it wasn't great yeah i just think it would i don't know if i want a guy that made it abundantly clear he didn't want to be here just such a short while ago. Yeah, for sure. I also am like a raging ageist in hockey, and I just, I think

in playoffs, like having energy and guys who really fly and hit and, you know. Yeah, for the first round, but then you get to the second round and third round when the game slows down. Is that when old guys get good later in playoffs? Well, no, but it's just, you know, he's a guy that you can picture when a game slows down a little bit. He controls the plays good defensively.

I like Ryan O'Reilly. I would obviously take Kadri. They're great hockey players. I would clearly take Kadri. But like in a vacuum without the contracts, it's Kadri. But if you're talking contracts, I think you got to lean Ryan O'Reilly.

What do we got here? I think this is from Ange Express on Twitter. I think the Leafs made a mistake signing Domi over Bertuzzi. He would have fit so well with Marner and Matthews, and he's a guy that goes the net and causes chaos. Domi just blends in with the rest. Thoughts? My favorite thing, and I think it's you who says this,

is like Bertuzzi's such a skid. No question. But Domi's almost $2 million cheaper than Bertuzzi. For sure. I think he's almost two million cheaper than yeah twosie for sure that's i think he is two million cheaper it's not for choosing five five times four it wasn't an option to sign bertuzzi and not sign domi yeah yeah you're right just couldn't fit for twosies like what's domi hasn't scored a goal in what 19 games now has he scored this year no no no goals no no but going back to last year yeah going back i think it's close to 20 games yeah it might be like it's it's a lot it's a lot and it's easy for people to say uh they shouldn't have paid him

but you just hope that that value and that depth that he has shown and provided in the past will come right back. You know, I didn't like the length of the contract, but I understand. You're a pretty good player. You've got to give them something to get them to stay. But these guys who make $3 million, $2 million, $3 million, $4 million, they take the most abuse from fans. They're caught.

It's the hardest spot to be in. They're caught. Because you don't get the opportunity of the guys who make 6, 7, 8, but you're still expected to produce. Alex Kerfoot made $3.5 million. Here we go. Alex Kerfoot made $3.5 million

here. He had 51 even strength points. Which is a ton. People couldn't run him out of here fast enough. I'm not saying he's great, but I'm saying because of, you know, he made three and a half, people think that's six and a half. He was huge value for the money.

By the way, returning with the Utah Hockey Club. Did he score an overtime winner for them in playoffs? He did. What a loser. He tipped one in. Yeah, he's coming back with Utah this week, right? He's on Utah. I'm not saying you miss him. He's going to probably score a goal. The other tricky part with those guys at 3.5 He's coming back with Utah this week, right? He's on Utah. I'm not saying you miss him. He's going to probably score a goal. That's probably. The other tricky part with those guys at 3.5 is that when they don't have the numbers to support,

they can look a lot closer to the 875 guy. Yeah, for sure. What are you providing above the 875 guy? Lawrence. Or are we saying Lorenz? What are we saying? Say whatever you want. I say Lorenz.

Lorenz. I love Lorenz. I love him too. And I made that abundantly clear, but the guy is making like under a million dollars. Sure. Now, if it was today, would you trade him? Like, where's his value to the Leafs compared to Domi's right now with no goals in 20, right? I don't know.

I love him. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. But when you're that middle guy like that, it's more of like, okay, like he's not close to the sixth guy. He's closer to the third and fourth line guy. I was watching some of that cup final the other day last year, and, like, Lorenz is out there doing his thing. You know, like, this guy's I was watching some of that cup final the other day last year and like,

Lorenz is out there doing his thing. You know, like this guy's been in those sort of moments and I like him a lot. I get your point. Under, under value guys. I don't know what. Hopefully when the cap goes up,

less of a deal of money. Right? Just to understand how some teams wouldn't even like look at this guy for a PTO and the Leafs did. did like it's just mind boggling to me um this is from i believe on twitter it's been a while since we had this conversation what's the max term and aav you would give you would offer john tavaris you guys are not gonna like me on this one i i just i don't I just, I don't think it works. I don't think it works. Like, if you're looking to remake this core,

let's say you lose in the first round this year. Yeah. And you're looking to redo the core. Like, you're so much worse without Mitch Marner. You need Mitch Marner as a part of the solution. Tavares is the guy where you're like, you need someone who's Adam Lowry. You know, you need someone, I know,

but it's not, so if he takes four million, it still doesn't work. You need someone. I know. If he takes $4 million, it still doesn't work. It's a loaded question again because I don't know. That's all we do. We don't know what it looks like for success for John. We know what it looks like for failure though. It's the same cast of characters.

Out in the first round. It doesn't work. Whatever the cost is, I don't want it. Are you moving forward? You're going to give him a two- or three-year deal as if he's the second-line centerman and he's continuing to score 60, 70 points, Sammy? I have no idea. I don't know. I don't know.

I have no idea. That's right. I can't answer this question. One million dollars. It doesn't work. But is it one million dollars to be on the fourth line and that's the look you want? You want Spezza and Thornton and Marlowe

and those guys at the fourth line? It doesn't work. Is John going to wrestle guys off a scrum for the next three years? And now I could be proven wrong, right? This year I want it to work. If they get another great center, Tavares looks great this year, it could work and I could be proven wrong, right? This year, I want it to work. If they get another great center, Tavares looks great this year.

It could work, and I could see it. A couple of rounds, talk to me. But right now, I haven't seen it. When you start teetering on a guy that is not a great skater in his mid-30s. You're talking multiple years. And you're talking multiple years, and you want to think about committing 5 million or 6 million. I think it's crazy talk. Particularly because he's going to get 60 points this year, right?

25 goals and 60 points, and that's worth some money. Bertuzzi just signed 5.5 times 4, and he had 20 goals last year. So you're going to – we assume they're going to trade for – Does he want to move to Jordordan and just be in toronto with his kids and play for right you got minton coming it's like where's he gonna fit i have no idea i hope this i hope this is the best version of tavar as they ever get i hope he's awesome i hope it all works but um and then you soak it and you let him go all right i'm gonna do i'm gonna do a read before we do our last question okay so uh who

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standard message and data rate supply, Ontario only. Good stuff, Sammy. Thank you. Now you got to get Alex Nylander to sign it too. Yeah. All right, last one. We have four minutes to discuss this. If Ed Rogers and Larry T, Larry Tenenbaum,

appoint you least dictator for a day, allowing you to make three sweeping changes, no questions asked. Yeah. Changes to the roster, staff, Scotiabank, whatever. Yeah. What changes are each of you making? Big question.

I'll start. Sure. If you have a lower bowl ticket and you leave before the end of the game in a victory, you forego your tickets for the rest of that week. If you're a season ticket holder. I'll be honest. I was thinking about how to get people

in those seats more how do you get more if you leave before if it's a two nothing game and your team has had one of the best performances of the year with a half marley's lineup and you're getting up and leaving before the three stars you're giving up your ticket to a kid for the next game done that's my first one that i'm making thoughts i'm never coming over your house for dinner i can't leave till after I eat dessert. Am I just making these changes or am I actually running the business? Because if I'm running the business, you can kick wrong. Have you got a dungeon in your basement?

No, no dungeon. Do you allow people to leave when they come and visit you? So why are you leaving early? It happened again. They pay for that seat if they want to put a toy in it. It happened again. Again. It's an incredible win. You're not going they want to put a, you know, a toy in it. It happened again. Again. It's an incredible win.

You're not going to stay to see the goalie get a shutout? You're going to head to the exit, oh, we're winning, better leave. What are they doing?

I think... It's for shame if you leave early in a victory. If you're losing... I hope you have a good one because I'm only asking for more lamb chops

in the alumni room. You know what mine is? I'm only asking for more lamb chops in the alumni room. You know what mine is? I'm willing to listen on the other franchise in Toronto area. I love that answer. I'll take whatever the fee coming my way is. $2 billion. You're going to pay my organization for the rights to have something nearby and then better serve the people of the area with another hockey team. And I say, no, I just want to hoard the whole market myself.

Mine. You want to charge Taylor Swift prices for those lower bowl seats and then not sit in them? How about popcorn doesn't cost $12? You know, a really cool idea. Is that fair? It's not expensive. It's $12 for popcorn. It's really good and salty.

It's unbelievable popcorn. I do it every time I go to any MLSC event. You need to pick it out of your teeth, but that's okay. When I used to do the PlayStation post game, I'd be in the press box. I'd have three bags of popcorn every time. I don't drink, but the price of beer is... More bathrooms, bigger bathrooms? Who are you?

What's the guy from LA? The Clippers guy? Oh, Balmer. Balmer. There's no lines. He's got a million bathrooms. Yeah, the whole place is a washroom. Go wherever you want.

It's all urinals. It's not bad, though. Oh, I got one more. I got three. I got one more. The lineups are a little tad long, though, to get back to your seat by the time the game starts. Okay, all right.

Okay. And they're long at the end of the game, too. That's why everybody leaves. You're like, bring back the reverse retros that they wore last year. They were so nice. The white shoulders with the salming patch on them are legitimately the nicest jerseys they ever wore, and they wore them twice, and they wear black more than they wear those.

You know what's scary is you could do two hours yourself on this. No, those are my three. Improvements. Those are my three. Stay in your seat, cheaper popcorn, better jerseys. That's it. He's a man of the people. That's all I want.

He's a man of the people. That's all I want. He's a man of the people. I believe you should hold people hostage more often. No, you just have to give up your ticket for the next game. Sam, you should come in here in a vest. Like a hard hat. I am so happy that we get someone that is sane at the top of the hour. Doug McClain. He's going to look like he's the voice of reason

compared to what we just heard out of Sammy. I'm ready for it. I don't care. Listen, boys, I'm having a great time. It's Friday. Let's get to 6 p.m. here, boys. All right. Doug McClain as we go national next

on the Real Kipper Inborn Show. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.