Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: What Would 'Blowing it Up' Look Like?

Episode Date: January 29, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look ahead to the Toronto Maple Leafs' matchup against the Kraken in Seattle. They pick up yesterday's conversation and chat about what 'blowing it up' would look like in Toronto. Then, they discuss Bobby McMann being linked to the Edmonton Oilers in trade talks, the pros and cons of moving on from Auston Matthews, the challenges of a potential Morgan Rielly trade, and Nick's proposal of a Joseph Woll/Jordan Binnington swap. Later, Sportsnet's Luke Fox joins the show (33:50) from Seattle to help tee up the Leafs' West Coast matchup, whether there's any chance the team sticks with 'Plan A' if they can piece together a successful road trip, what to expect from Anthony Stolarz in his second game back from injury, and William Nylander nearing a return.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, you're all stuck with us for the next two hours. It's the real Kippur and Bourne show. Jake the Snake Shultz, Derek Brandeo, Ajaja, Ethan Gabor. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. We're live on 360 Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590, The Fan, streaming always on Sportsnet Plus, Spotify, Apple, and YouTube, where the chat is on fire. the last few days when it comes to the Toronto Maple Leafs,

our leaf hour edition. It is game day. If anyone notice. Long time from now, but it is. Tonight the Toronto Maple Leafs are in Seattle, 10 p.m. Eastern on Sportsnet. Yours truly will be there. I'm not sure how awake I'll be, but the younger, better looking Justin Bourne will be right beside me to nudge me.

I'm tired now So we'll see you tonight We're ready to go by then I put on the line up there Real Kipper and Born after dark So tune in that What we've been doing it It's a little blue

Tune in to the second intermission When things really get squirley Yeah Oh boy Usually under normal circumstances We would just tee up A game against an opponent Any opponent

Tonight Seattle but I don't think the last day and a half, two days in Leafland is focused on playing Seattle. So you tell me where you want to go. Have we overdone it? Did we overdo it yesterday? I don't know. Don't look at me. Was that too much?

Based on the temperature out there on topics of conversation when it comes to the Toronto Maple Leafs, the answer is no. No, I don't think we did. I don't think we did. I think we just picked up the vibe that's out there. Yeah. And when it's all said done, it's like just a simple question, right? What do they do?

Mm-hmm. That's all the show is. That should be the name of the show. What do they do? I don't know about that, but I mean... What do we do now? That's where the topic of conversation is with the Toronto Maple Leafs. And we'll get into Seattle and we'll get some sense.

sound bites from Greg Bruby on Kippers Clippers. But where do you want to start, J.B? Don't look at me. Well, listen. Let's go to Sammy. I'll start it. Okay. Yesterday we had a very passionate first hour where we did some voice raising.

Wouldn't say it was quite yelling, but we raised our voices at each other. We were passionate. And towards the end of that hour, yes. Borny pulled out his pistol and put it towards her head and said say it Yes

And do you remember when I told you that sometimes it takes me a while to get there but like And you said blow it up Right? I did I did And When push comes to shove I try to explain what I thought could happen

But you asked me finally at the end of the program what I would do And then I saw on a rival radio show, one that it may even run directly across from us, our friend Chris Ponger, who we've had on this show many times, said, take it down to the studs with this team. And, you know, I pushed back on this. I was trying to represent the other side of it. But I'd be lying if I said, maybe I'm not surprised, but I was kind of blown away at how everybody is just like okay with that conversation. That everybody, that seems to be. the common thought throughout this fan base

that the best course of action is to blow it up. And I'm surprised by that. I really am. Do people really want that? Like, I know it's been tough this year, but it's just teams have, they just haven't been out of the playoffs and people forget what it's like when a team sucks

and they're like, there's only one way to be elite again and it's to suck. And all these people have had this rebuild thing blown into their head by other teams. I just, I was surprised by the, response to it. That's what I'm getting at. So I think there's a difference

of opinion with each and every person that just throws out retool, rebuild, re-assess, blow it up, restructure, re-dew, soft-sall, right? Like, we got all these terms.

We do not agree. But let's stick on a pin. They're going to trade two guys. Let's really break it down where you have that. cut line. I want to hear your cut line between whatever you think is just dipping your toe in the water to a more aggressive to blowing it up. When do you not blow it up? Like what is your cut line between blowing it up and not blowing it up? I would say the core talents that you have under long term contract. Willie now we're getting sorry. Austin Matthew nyes. I don't think you have anyone

else, Chris Tanna is a part of that as well. Well, Easton Cowan. Easton Cowan is a keep. Okay. So we're really down to just four guys. Well, hold on here. Aren't we? Is that right? Yeah.

Really? I mean, think about it. Well, Troy Stature is an untouchable for you. No, I'm joking. Really, we're down to four guys. You get rid of one of those guys and it's like blowing it up. Yeah. You keep those four guys and you get rid of anything.

else and it's like this off sale. Retool. Retool. Right? Does no one remember the boss in Christmas vacation saying Retool all to you? How do we not have that as a drop? I love when you do that boy.

Oh my God. Right? So Jake McCabe in that combo. He's under He's under contract for five years. All right. We can, uh, I don't know. I don't know. I don't like him. I don't think so. I don't have it.

in there that thinking that if Jake McCabe goes, this thing is a blow up, yeah. We're blowing it up. No, so you're right. It's a very, it's four players up front. Correct. Maybe Tavares and that make it five. No, no, no. Not a chance. Okay, it's four. Not a chance. It's four.

It's four. Yeah. So, but that's a big delineation. Yes. It's a massive difference. So yeah, I think it's fair to say that's a difference between a retool and a rebuild is those four names. Those four names. Retooling. I'll retool you. You found it.

What is that from? Christmas vacation. It's the boss. He's pretending to have a phone call maybe. I don't remember that. So I don't watch a movie. Can I ask you something? Been a couple Christmases.

Is there any world where you throw out a Nise, a Matthews, or a Nielander to see what's out there? I think, as I say about all GMs of a team who is not. not good enough to win the Stanley Cup. You have to consider everything. Absolutely everything. And that means Matthews and Nealander too. Where you just have to see is someone willing to completely blow their brains out on a trade because they so badly want your guy.

And yeah. So you do have to listen. But I think you, you know, you need someone to be ridiculous to do it. Like what was in the NBA? They got traded for five firsts one year or something. Was many ridiculous with their four pieces that they gave Vancouver? It would have to be more ridiculous than that. No, that's the market right now for the best defense.

But I'm not looking to make a trade. But why aren't you? Why aren't you if you can feel? Because I believe that these guys are tough to get an elite talent. Okay. All right. All right. We did that yesterday.

We're good. We're good. I'm not trying to trade them the way they were actively shopping use. However, if someone says, you know, we'll give you a whatever. A whole whack of first in this prospect and yada yada yada, then you listen. Yeah. If the Columbus Blue Jackets missed the playoffs again and then they're like, Zach Wrenski's like, I want out of here.

I'd be like, then we can have a conversation. You know, it does blow my mind that a team like Columbus who can't get a superstar doesn't do that at some point. Just say, we're going to give you the next five, whatever, four first. Give us awesome. Something ridiculous. Just we need a superstar here. We need people to care.

I do think, though, if there was one guy in the four that would be considered blowing it up that I would probably consider, it would be really. I think that there's been a, big conversation in this fan base forever. Like one of the core conversations from this fan base has been trading Willie for a number

one defenseman. And listen, I think number one defensemen are harder to find than scoring wingerers. Maybe not the one, the way Willie scores and how elite he can be on his day. But if that was a type of a move where there's someone out there that's like, hey, we'll give you a legit one of the 10 guys we always talk about that is a real 26 minute a night guy that's going to move the needle for you, that is something that I would consider. I'm in.

I'm in. And do you think that would be out there? Like, for the record, like we are talking like Zach Werenski. Oh, yeah, but they're not going to give you Zat Wrenzki from Willie Neal. No, they're not. No, but he's like the third best guy. My big fear is that you trade for pieces and not good pieces. Like I'm even thinking with Bobby McMahon, if you're the Edmonton-Oilers and you say,

we'll give you a third and a middling process. or something. I don't care. I don't want that. Give us hike Howard. You know, someone like that you think is a high prospect. If Edmonton hears that,

they say no. Fine. I'll give you Bobby and a pick. Give you Bobby and a third for, I want good back. I don't want volume of piece. I totally agree. I totally agree.

And everything I'm hearing is that Toronto and Edmonton are talking. Is that right? Yes. Okay. So Brad Tree Living isn't on the road trip. Stay back for meetings. And what are the nature of these meetings? Well, listen, who knows?

I'm not even going to begin to speculate, but. I heard some things. Unless he's getting called in on a meeting, his meetings are his meetings. He's bunkering down. This is the time now going into the Olympics that they're feeling like we've got two trade deadlines. One to the point where we get to the Olympics and they shut down. our official talks or our official trades. So they have six or seven days

till the arbitrary cutoff where they can't trade. I think it's the fourth of February. Yes, I think so. No more trades till like the... So they're bunker down. They're working the phones. So Bobby's going to switch dressing rooms Tuesday night? I don't know.

There's a lot of noise around it for sure. It does just make so much sense. I'll say this for the Oilers. He checks a lot of boxes for them in the short term. They're trying to win a cup this year. Oh, yeah. He's been great in the playoffs.

Well, and that's the thing is he hasn't. But you need him to be a third liner or something where if a puck finds a stick like last game, you just shoot it in. He shoots it so hard. You're not going to find a better, cheaper guy. And I hope if Brad's dangling him out there to the Oilers, he's going to squeeze them for everything he can. That's what concerns me, though, is you talk about, you know,

You're not going to, well, cheaper you mean in terms, okay, the salary. The salary. What is he? One six? One three. One three. When you say that word.

You could retain and get more. What's that? When you say the word cheaper, I'm like, oh, God, like I don't, I do think that there's a world where, I think you maybe alluded to this yesterday on air off there. I can't remember where, that he's the type of guy, like a lot that it's noon on the trade deadline day and you've kind of struck out on somebody else. You're like, all right, you know what? It's got to get a guy here.

Here's the first. Here's, like, he's a type of guy that somebody. could convince themselves and make a mistake on like the Leafs kind of did last year. There would be plenty of time now. You're not making that Bobby McMahon trade unless you feel like I think you can sign him. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

He has to come with an extension and it has to be done. Yeah. So what happens in that scenario? Like the Leafs would have to give permission to the Oilers to talk to his agent. Like once he agreed on trade, then we'll talk about a potential. Yeah. Now, if the Leafs are legitimately shopping him now, you're telling his agent right now, go talk, go talk to anybody you want,

and you come back to me. And this is where agents are like really good. And they do get involved in helping teams find a match. And that's happening more and more, right? It was a long we had on time? It's always happened. Has it? Yeah.

Yeah, that's how eventually Zito goes from being an agent to a general manager. Ken Hughes did the same thing, right? They've got experience now. They've got experience. They got knowledge. They know values of players. They, if they're good. Get the hustle.

Right. Yeah. So that's a tricky one because Bobby McMahon is UFA and the Leifes could watch him walk out the door for nothing, which they can't do. I'm sorry, I mean, how many goals do you have this year? 14, 15 goals? I can't remember the exact total. He's going to end up with 25 and he, he's having a career year and a contract year.

And he's cheap. Bobby, you have to strike while the iron's high. 17. Wow, 17. Bobby McMahon could not score another goal this season and he will have teams lining up to get him. Yeah. What they give Manjapani in the summer last year? Three, two.

Yeah. And he scored 11 goals with, with, with, no. with Washington. I think he's... Oh, coming off. Yeah, yeah, coming off. But this guy is big. He can shoot the puck

and his skating is elite. And he's finishing more checks. He's been in a fight this year. He's gone after big guys. Like, he's, he's become an NHeller. He's good. Yeah. But I just, I know the two weeks at a time

where he forget he's playing. Yeah, totally. Right? So you hope that the pro scouts have been around recently. Yeah. But that's why he gets four, not eight. Yeah. You know, it's like,

So just to come back full circle here, when I say, blow it up, when I say, when we hear Chris Pronger say, take it down, it is with the thought of just not Willie for me. And that includes Matthews. I'm making calls. I'm seeing what's out there. How many first rounders I can get for these guys. How many blue chip prospects can I get for them?

Or how many current players on the roster I can pluck? Yeah. I mean, I'm glad you brought it up because I was going to say the next part of the question was like, because we said it at 453 yesterday. What does that look like? Like, are you trying to be the Canucks? Or are you trying to pivot where you get some prospect capital and some picks back? You're trying to get actual players on your team. Like, I don't know what that looks like.

That's the thing. I don't know. I don't know, Kip. That's a question for you, not me, is what does that look like for? The only thing you have to answer is, like, ownership, right? Now it's Rogers. How do they feel about that? How do they feel about, like, Vancouver will miss the playoffs this year

and in all probability next year too? And probably, right? Can be honest? Probably the year after that. Three years? Okay. I don't know how anybody feels under this roof about the potential of doing that. Retooling.

I'll retool you. It could come back where it's like not happening. Yeah. Not happening. You know, it is one of those things where if you do this rebuild, it's not promised that you're going to get guys they get you back there. If you watch a regular season and if you watch the Leafs over the past few years, there were some nights where they didn't play very well.

They just had the bitter guy. A few nights, Matthew shot a couple in. Mariner make a few dishes. Will he'd score one. be like they weren't better, but they just have a few guys that are just better. Yep. And if you don't get those guys, every night's a grind and, you know, you can draft and develop and, okay, these guys in three years, they're going to be ready.

And when they get there, they may not be it. And then you go, well, you're the Red Wings or whatever. And you go, okay, we got to do it again. We got to. So I think the fear is not a full rebuild means we're back, baby. And you have guys that right now you're just going to win some games because they're just better. You still have those guys. Yeah.

can you would you rather try to just support them and build around that then roll this dice i understand what you're looking at you're looking at winning a stanley car they spent 10 years trying to do that though too right so i don't know what you think your odds are that you're gonna finally get it right with with the same core guys i don't know if i don't know if i've ever asked you this question or you're this but like if matthews i mean there's been no indication at all from anyone like it's not like oh, there's rumblings that he wants out or this or that or whatever. Like, if he just wants to stay here and he wants to be a leaf and he wants to sign. Like John Tavares.

Sure. Right. But I mean, like, when he's signing at his next contract, well, is he going to be 30 when he signs his next contract? Yeah. 30. If he wants to sign an eight-year contract and just be a leaf for his whole career, would both you guys sign up for that? Of course.

Of course, Chris Johnson mentioned today somewhere on radio. I saw it tweeted that he said, only thing he's ever heard on Matthew is that he wants to be here. I know he's not perfect and I know like we don't necessarily love him every night. Yeah. But I don't know. I just, I do.

I know. But there's a lot of Vlad Guerrero Jr. parallels here for me where like you're starting. There's that conversation last year around this time where he's unsigned and, you know, it's like, oh my God, you know, they're going to trade him or what's going to happen or whatever. and ultimately they're just like, here's the contract. You wanted to stay. They signed him for this long contract.

And he's just going to be here. And then he just masses Homer's own playoffs. You know what I mean? Like, it's just better to have a guy. If he's willing to stay here, you'd feel really stupid to trade him. That's all. Like if he wants to go, obviously you have to trade him. But if he wants to stay, I think you just sign him and you just kind of eat it.

I don't know. Maybe I'm way off. No, I don't think you're way off. I think what you have is, a feeling that okay he may he may not lead me to the promised land but he's shown me

that he can get me in the playoffs and he can get me some gates and he can keep the interest going and he can get people excited. So 100% value there. I don't want to see Austin Matthews

here another eight years playing the same role that he did in the first eight as a or the face of the organization or the leader or that's not him. But I, okay, if I can find another guy to come in, he needs somebody. I'm fine. I like this conversation. He needs someone above him.

He's not Crosby. He's Malkin to Crosby. He's not Jonathan Taves in Chicago. He's Cain to Jonathan Cuthan. I think you are nail on the head here. He's not Stampcoast. he's Kuturov behind Stam Kosts, where you can go do your thing,

go shoot the puck, go do all of this, but just don't come to me as the face or the spokesperson or anything else. I'll say this. So you and I, you know, we fundamentally disagree. I do believe that he can be that guy. However, I think he can't be, let's say I think he's Crosby

and you think he's Malkin. He can't be Crosby without Malkin. He needs a guy. And I don't know if, Willie's going to be that. You need another guy here. Well, I'm checking my watch here. Two-year contract for Connor McDavid out there.

Okay. Now we're talking. Buddy. Now we're talking. Listen. That's, yeah. That's the pie in the sky. You know, whether or not.

I'm just, I mean. Listen, but Jesus, that's, that's something you could look at in two years, 100%. Yeah. Right. But you got to do your homework. Yeah. Matching eight years. $18 million.

You got a contract for both of them for the contract. You got to sell that. What's the cap by then? 110 million. Whatever Connor wants it to be. Two years for now? No, it's higher than that.

Is it? No, 117, 120, 120, 122. I just got to tell you, boys,

I do love that we started about blowing it up an hour sign and McDavid back. Our show would be so much fun. Oh, what a time of that. So I would be insufferable. Who, me?

Oh, my God. Oh, I might have to sit by him. I might have to sit beside you. I'm not working with him in two years. If he believes they were signed, David, oh, you would not want to be around me. We're going to put him right back where we started with him, behind a glass. We'll just put glass around his podium.

You're like, glass case of emotion. You're Maxwell smart, man. We're just going to put a cone of silence over you. Yeah, that's all we could do at that point. I just, I would worry, like, I totally agree with you, though. If there's, like, in that Marner article that Frege did with all the great reports, and they talked about how he went to Matthews and early, and there was the indication,

and we talked about this yesterday, if there's any indication of indifference or like, I'm thinking about leaving or like, I'm not sure, to me, you can't take the risk and you have to, you have to make the move. But if he's like,

yeah, guys, I'm going to sign a long-term contract with you when I'm eligible to do it, you just kind of have to eat the faults and have them be here. That's where I'm at all. Yeah, yeah, is that fair? Yes.

I mean, good Lord. And when McDavid's the number one center and the captain and everybody can go to him it's fine. So JT is playing third line left wing. JT may be a development coach by then. Can I say something on JT? Listen, God bless him.

He's giving you everything he has. And I give him all the credit in the world. But? But why do you give him a new extension with a no move in the first two years? Like. Because they probably get him at half price. That's why.

You were going to get him at half price. didn't want to go anywhere. I'm just saying now, if you had also JT out there as a potential centerman who people can still feel like he can put up 60 or 70 points and play the power play. They're dying for centermen out there. Teams are just looking like crazy. And they went to him no chance? No, you can go to him. I don't care. J.B. I don't care. You go to him and say, listen, we're doing this thing and and I'm sorry, but like, you're not in the plans. You just sign that contract.

I know he did. And I don't mean him. I mean tree. I would have hoped that you had some sort of conversation already, but like J.T could get you like a second rounder if not a conditional first right now. Like that's real value there.

I think the Leafs could go 0 and 82 next year and you could go to Tavares and he wouldn't go. I think Tavares has a nice family he's from here i think he loves me in a leaf yeah like i i don't think okay then you're you're you're gonna be nick robertson you're gonna be in and out of the lineup and you some nights you're gonna play fourth line and i got to develop new guys and i got to bring guys in and right is that return worth moving on from a guy who can shoot at the net and help you out like he's a fine he's fine he's

not to me i don't look this team see him as the problem it's not but it's just it's just time to move on it's just time to move on missed the window You missed it. You missed it. And I get it. But they'd have an even worse record, but I would have a miss here. You don't need to turn John Tavares into Patrick Marlowe and Joe Thornton and look for places and place them in here. Like, please tell me those days are over.

Can't do that, friend. Can't tell you that. I don't know. I don't know. It's, you know, we mentioned four guys that we thought that they would have to hang on to here. And I really feel like that's. that's kind of it. Okay, before you get to JT,

if you ever want to think about it, then like, what do you do with Morgan Riley now, guys? I've even had that conversation in my head today, Kip, and I just... You scared to go up to Morgan and say it's over? I'm not. I'm not scared about that. I think you're not going to get a ton back,

and I think you're worse without them. I know. Oh, my God. You're like in the basement of the division. Yeah. How can you get worse? Well, you just lose more. There are teams below them that are losing more.

You'd be, you'd be, I think he is the number one guy that a lot of people circle as one of the main issues of this team. I agree. So I agree that he is. And to me, it's a role, you know, the old Dionne Funf thing where it's like he's miscast. If he was on a good team, if Florida signs him and he gets to go be their second or third pair guy, whatever, he'd be unbelievable. And so I just think they give him too much here because they don't have anything else. So he leaves. And then who eats the minutes?

Are we trying to get better or not? And I just don't see where that guy comes from. Are you trying to get better in 27 games? No. Over the rest this year? No. Are you going to try to get better with him next October? Yes.

Can I, can I? No, I'm saying can we, you think you get rid of him and then Simone Benoit fills the minutes? No, go go and find another guy. I don't know. That's your job. Yeah. Right? That's your job.

I just don't think you're getting an asset back. So it's just like you're just take him out of the line. To me, it's like you just hit delete and you go, okay. I think there's now 32 teams in this league. You're going to find somebody. Maybe you have to eat a million or two million and bring them down to five million or five and a half. Someone's going to take Morgan Riley. I don't like to do the thing about their records when guys aren't in the lineup because it's just.

Yeah, they win all the time. They win, they have like a 700 winning percentage when he's not in the lineup. I do think that there would be, listen. I don't want to give people the impression. I think he's been good this year. I think he's been very bad. They just, I mean, he's on, he digs the pocket. It's just, at some point it gets to a point where doesn't he,

like, if they went to him, we were like, wouldn't he, at this point, wouldn't he want to go? You would think so. Like, it's, like, it's just been such a long time here. Now, like, I remember watching a clip and it's like, he was on the power play with Mason Raymond and Jake Gardner and like, Nazam. He's been here for so long.

No second pair D-Men has had more career power play time than Morgan Ryan. I just, 100%. I just, I don't think you're going to be able to move that. Other teams have. I think you could. You just get nothing back. So if you're okay with just hit and delete. Go to the B word.

No, I don't think you need to buy him out. I think you'd rather, if you had to retain a million, you could or something. But I don't think you need to buy it. I don't think it needs to get there. I really believe that. you're going to find some match where. Like what's the match? What's the team? Like a good team starts them in the ozone and plays them with a good player.

It might not be Dougie Hamilton, but it's like that. You got a headache. I got a headache. Let's switch it up. At least I get a right-handed headache. You get a fresh chance with a left-handed headache. It actually makes sense for Jersey too. It's like a little bit cheaper for you. You know, it's not, you know, Luke Hughes is going to be on your power play anyway. Right-handed headache would be a great name for an alternative rock.

back but um i just i do you think i don't know i just have a hard time watching him every night and if you're a team they'd be like oh 12 minutes of that it'd be good at seven million dollars a year yeah i don't know any of these things we want to hear from we a huge trip you can talk to you remind me is there a game there's a game then we want to talk about anything can we say mention stolars starting tonight anthony stolars is starting to let's listen to craigby we need a kipper's clipper i haven't said that for the start of the show. But this is actually his only good clip. Well, good that we're playing it.

Let's play it. Derek. Clip. Two. Two. Did we have it? The worst we've ever called for a clip. Yeah.

I think we've got it. Yeah, there's obviously, I think he was, we looked at the, you know, when you look at the him and the game and the tape, he tried to do way too much, you know, and it's understandable being out that long and wanting to help your team. But he just needs to do what he's best at. and focus on that, you know, like sometimes you come back and you're a little too eager and you want to do too much and we felt he was just kind of all over the place.

Okay, this is where I'm going to defend a little bit, Stolars and Joseph Wall here, okay? They ain't used to you guys or the guys in front of them being like the worst in most categories, like shots and rush chances. This is all new to them. I'm really mad that I remember this at 430, but I did read your article today,

and you had mentioned potentially packaging Joseph Wall for Jordan Bittington. Oh. And someone DM me and said, make sure you hammer Kipp around this today. So this is me hammering you about it. I'm not comfortable with both of them running in the future together. Yeah.

Not a chance. So you should trade for the statistical worst goal either. I'd rather get the worst statistic. statistical goalie than a guy that I don't even know will show up and play. Okay? At least I know that guy will play. Yeah. The other guys, I'm not sure about.

Listen, I'm as big a Jordan Binnington guys you're going to find. And even me, I'm like, I don't know what that. That's my explanation. Yeah, yeah. And he's only got another year on his deal. And the guy's full of piss and vinegar. Okay, he's got attitude. That's the part that does appeal to me.

Okay, he's got attitude. Sure. If he's going to lose, he's going to. to lose maybe even spearing somebody. And those things would happen. Once again, I will take that over Joseph Wall right now. Wow. That's, to me, really negative on Wool, who, you know, he's been a good goalie here for years,

like really good numbers consistent. Not in the stretch I needed him most and not in relief in the playoffs. You only get so many chances with me. Yeah. And that's fine, too. You know, Biddington, you're not worried about decline in this. Of course I am. Terrified.

But like, I'm terrified of what I'm seeing right now. Yeah. I mean, is there someone else we could trade for? Another goal? Wait, I left it as a question mark. Can we get him? In my article today, I did put a question mark on it. Well, that means it's, okay.

I'm throwing it out there. We should go get the break because Luke's going to join us from Seattle. Who's telling you to hammer me? I want to know. You know, legitimately a person who I've never communicated. to get rid before. I'm sorry, my friend. The list is too long. Before we go to break, this is another

Zaja Gabor special. I told him to text me to remind me. But tease the lease line tomorrow. So the lease line on Friday, 416, 413, 4141, 4141, 416, 413, 4141. Yeah, it'll probably be a pretty lively leaf line. Shut up, my boy, Kitch. That's who it was.

Does Zaja cut your meat, too? No, I don't know what that. Is that a... Is there some meaning behind that? I think you got to, be apparent to understand that. Oh, like, you mean like, yeah, like that? Yes.

Oh, no, he doesn't. Okay, I'm just asking. I don't need it through the day. I don't need it at the office, so. Except for Kimbitts. Okay. Roads. What do we got into those?

Luke Fawkes. Yeah, from Seattle. Luke. From Seattle next. And then Jason Buchal at the top of the hour. In studio. In studio. Yeah.

Wow. All right. Don't go away. More real Kipperman born after these words. Hey, it's Blake Murphy. And on Map Honor. Join us weekday mornings at 11 as we break down all things Toronto Raptors. It's the Raptor show on SportsNet 590 The Fan and wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome back to the program. Nick Imprials, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee. All right. All the way from Seattle. Right. Coffee and rain. Luke Fox, NHL writer, Sportsnet.com, sleepless in Seattle. these are all the things we know about Seattle

It is yeah It's it's rainy it's drizzly The coffee's good But it's at least it's warm enough That I could take a scooter to morning skate You took a scooter that is very Lefty Pacific Northwest of you How eco-friendly

So it's on brand Pick anybody From players to coaches To general managers To owners Who is is the most sleepless in Seattle these days? Well, if Bradshaw Living was here, it might be him.

You know, this roster is showing its cracks right now. And I think the general manager is going to speak to us later on this road trip. And I'm really fascinated what he's going to say because, you know, the quartermark and after he fired Mark Savard, Assistant Coat, he was saying things like we're not waving the white flag, we're sticking with the plan, which is try and make the playoffs. But I'm sure he has access to the NHL standings and it's going to be harder to stay that course. You know, it always felt like plan B was to make plan A work. And plan A is not working.

Like they're going to have to come up with a solution. So I'm fascinated to see if he takes a realistic approach and realize, is that he might have to sell off some pieces or really rethink the strategy because I think the organization is stunned to find themselves where they are at the end of January here. You know, it's so funny, Lucas, yesterday we did the show.

I don't know if you caught any of it, but we, you know, more or less pushed this dynamite stick down on things. But, you know, I was thinking if they went out West and they won a bunch of hockey games, they win the four going into the break, they win three or four. is there a world where they still go where we're not done yet

we're going to keep fighting it out this year I think there's a world I don't think that's the world they should live in but absolutely I think you know if they win three or four here and maybe if Boston loses the next three of their four like four out going into the break yeah maybe they

I really think they're going to use all the time they can before the trade deadline for to make the hard decisions and I think they're still crossing their fingers that they can get it going here. You know, it's not as if they're calling up and playing the kids or anything. They're trying to fight still.

Stolar is playing tonight. Is there a sense that he feels like way better than his original start since coming off the IR here against Vegas? Well, he better, right? He was looking rusty and it's interesting. you know, Craig Brubay had a conversation with his goalie, he said. And often, you know, a lot of these modern head coaches kind of leave it to the goalie coach to kind of deal with it.

It's like I got my hands full with special teams and the D and the forwards, you go deal with the goalie. I don't understand the goalie, but he said that they went over the video with him. And his takeaway was he was trying to do too much, you know, first came back, he was swimming a little bit. He's like, he just needs to be calm, stay big, be poised. and he felt like he was trying too hard, trying to make up for lost time or something. But yeah, I mean, if they are going to, you know, pull off some sort of miracle run here,

they're going to need the goaltending, both Stollers and Wohlers and Woll to be much better than they have been this month. Coach is mad at you the other day, hey? Oh, is it me or is it just mad at the state of things? I don't know. I think it's the state of things. I thought his stitches were going to show.

You know, The one thing you mentioned, well, I saw you tweet today. So Neelander skated today. Full participant looked okay, but he's not going to go tonight. He looked okay. You know, someone observing the morning skate said he's not kicking up a lot of snow out there, is he? Is that right? Yeah.

So I think he's easing his way back. But, you know, the plan definitely is to get him up and playing before the Olympics here. Brube said there's a good possibility that he makes his return Saturday in Vancouver but it's not tonight he didn't take power play wraps he wasn't part of the Tavares line

he was he was rotating in but he was a full participant with the team and that's a first so there is progress being made look when you watch the team is there I don't know how much you're around them or he can feel the vibe of them or even what you got

out of a skate this morning, I guess. But, you know, is there a sense that they seem a little bit more relaxed than maybe some of the people in the fan base? Oh, definitely more than the fan base. Yeah. I mean, I think you're sitting with a prominent member of the fan base. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

But, you know, in my day, this time of year around the trade deadline is really, it makes a lot of guys uptight. It really does. And I think with this unique trade deadline coming up for the Olympics and then another one in March, it would only add to the anxiety, I think, for some of these guys. I think for some, that would be understandable for sure. They're really trying to keep their minds in small places.

I had a chat with Brandon Carlo today, and he's like, we're just trying to treat this like a four-game series. He's like, yeah, it's human nature. You could get caught up looking. ahead to the long break and he did admit that this year feels like they need the the mental break and the physical break just with the condensed schedule and he's one of a handful of guys that's playing at something a little bit less than 100%. So there is a sense for the, for the players that they want to get to that break and they're going to enjoy it, but they're trying to treat

this road trip as a four game series, just try to win this series. And obviously, you know, there's a bitter taste from how they perform at home. Yeah, it's out there, right? You feel it. You know, I also had a chat with Scott Lawton talking about, does he want to resign with the Leafs? You know, the trade deadlines around the corner, he mentioned. Like, he's like, we got to get points.

His belief is still there. He said, I think this is a special group. We just haven't been playing well. And I guess that's just the athlete mindset. You can't allow yourself to think, oh, my goodness, this season's a waste. You have to be like, today I'm in Seattle. We're playing the Cracketkin. We got to go out and win a hockey.

game. And it's got to be hard to train your mind to think that way, but that's kind of the vibe I'm picking up from them. So Luke, let me get this straight. You asked him if he wants to resign here in Toronto. Did he give you a definitive answer? Because it's more

important than ever that we watch UFAs go in and we watch body language and we listen for answers and cues whether or not guys avoid things or they answer head on. Yeah. He answers. it head on, which, you know, props to him.

You know, he referenced the trade deadline last year. And he basically had conversations with Philly. Like, if you're going to trade me, I want to go to a team that has a chance to win a Stanley Cup. And he identified Toronto at that time as one that could do it. And I said, you know, do you see yourself wearing a leaf sweater next season? And he said, I sure hope so. I got to prove to them that I can be part of the solution here.

And, you know, a lot of guys, like you said, Nick, are non-committal. They're just say, well, you know, that'll take care of itself or, you know, I'm just trying to worry about tonight. But he was definitive in saying that he wants to be wearing the blue and white. He loves being near family. And he said that he's made a lot of friends on the team pretty quickly here. He's comfortable. And all the guys rave about how they get treated, right? It's first class treatment.

So, yeah, he wants to, he wants to come back. And I think it's worth, I think it's worth bringing it back. I think you just need to find out if you're going to match it. number. You like this is what Brad has to do over the next few weeks here. It's okay. You don't have to sell everyone as a UFA, but you have to have a decision on them. They can't all walk out the door, his own rentals, especially if you don't make the playoffs.

I think this is like what's so challenging about where they're currently at is like they have a guy like Lawton who wants to compete. And the other day, Nyes said he still thinks they'll get in. And you got Matthews and Nylander and like you've got these guys. Like if you tank or blow it up, like you're still going to win a good amount of hockey games here. So it kind of feels like they're in purgatory right now. Agreed.

It's a really fascinating spot that they're in. And this is why the GM makes a ton of money, right? Because these are hard decisions. And then clouding all this is, you know, Tray Living himself.

You don't know what his future is. So then you've got to ask if he's not around for what might be a reset or retool whatever word you want to use, should he be the one making these calls? You know, and it's, I mean, we want to talk to Trey Living on this trip,

but I think, you know, at some point we might need to hear from Keith Pelly, too. I just don't know what the vision is right now. It's a real good question, and a lot of people are asking it right now, but I don't think we're going to get any answers anytime soon for now. So we'll focus on tonight, Seattle, and the Toronto Maple Leafs on SportsNet, Ontario.

It's so funny, I'm so wrapped up in the Leafs stuff. I'm like, how are Seattle? What have they been up to? They're going to play a... They're in the mix. They're in the mix. They're one of what, four or five teams right now battling for a wild card spot in the Western Conference.

So they're, they're... Leifs are going to have to play real well here. And they're defensively strong, right? They got the big D, you know, Brandon Montor, Nick Capriose's favorite player is back there. Yeah. Yeah. Luke? Have a

Starbucks first or something out in Seattle. I don't know. What do you guys do other than jump on scooters? Catch a lot of coffee. So it's a good town for that. All right. Our very own Luke Fox,

Sportsnet.com. See you guys. And number one guy to piss off a head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs. It doesn't matter who. Sheldon, Bruby,

doesn't matter. You know, growing up in Colonna B.C., we used to go down to Seattle to catch the Blue Jays. That was the best you could do back then, you know? Still, like three quarters of the fans in that game will be Blue J fans. It's really funny because people think in Toronto that everyone out West

hates them or whatever. And, you know, not entirely true. There is some rivalry there, but the Jays are local there. So tonight. God, I mean, that's going to be a nightmare for those Seattle fans next series. When the Jays fans go down there and they're just like, yeah, we have the ultimate Okay. So we got four games right to go here.

We got Seattle, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton. Does that sound right? Yes, it does. It doesn't sound right. It is right. It has to be like three or four. Two or four. Minimum.

No good. Are we talking we're trying to make the playoffs again? No, we're not. No, we're just talking about, I don't know. Like, to your point, interest or, you know, right? You know, I'm looking at the standings. Yeah, okay. So let's say they win all four games, eight points.

That gets them up to, what was that math out to? 65 points? Yeah, with what, 24 games to go? With 24 to go? I'm telling you, they got red hot. They could talk themselves into it. And that would change the deadline. But it's almost like for just simplicity's sake,

a loss would be the preferred outcome to clear directions. Like the leaves could get kicked in the teeth tonight before even puck drop because they will have known whether Boston and Buffalo had won or lost before their game starts. Yeah. I mean, your scoreboard watching pregame in game 50, 3 or 4, you're cooked. Yeah, you are. You are. That's trouble bill.

But yeah, Seattle Cracken. You know, they've won a couple games in a row. They defend well. So their head coach was on the leaf bench last year. Lane Lambert. Yeah. and he's a real technical guy. They're playing with more structure.

Great. Yeah, I'm just saying maybe we can look at a lot of things that were lost last season, but maybe that one might be one of them. You know, I have, you know, in talking, hearing about different coaches, it sounds like Craig Burby's a very good motivational coach. People like to like him. They like to play for him, work with him.

But yeah, he's not the exes and his. knows the technical side of things, so he needs to be surrounded by guys who are good at that. Maybe that does have some impact. Could be. I don't, I don't. It ain't the loss, Elaine Lambert, that got you where you're at.

No, but there is such a term as death by a thousand cuts. Absolutely. All right. So you mentioned the four games. In your heart of heart, how does this go? Oh, they win tonight. Lose tonight. They're definitely.

Win against Vancouver, win Calgary. lose Edmonton. So two and two. Two and two. Win, win, win. You lose to Edmonton. Okay.

I like your plan better. Yeah. I don't. Oh for four. Oh, for four from McKee. I got a feeling this, it's got a chance to get ugly here. I think you'll learn a lot about the,

where they're at. I just think they all know. I just want us all to remember again. Like you can talk about Stolar's swimming like crazy, but you're swimming. Swimming like crazy because you're 32nd in the league and cycle chances given up. Yeah, you're getting pumped. The other team is the puck the whole game.

You're post, post, post, post. So how can you not swim? Yeah, you're Michael Phelps in there. You're doing the. Backstroking. Butterfly, backstroke, post to post. Throw me something. Yeah, no, there, it hasn't been good.

I do think that this is the team. The only reason I've picked win, win, win, is because you and I've done the show for five years. What's the line? Just when you think you're out. That was old least. I know. That was old least.

And if this is how they end, this is how they end. Whatever I say, you're going the other way. That's, we got a lot of losses. We got a lot of losses. We got a lot of losses. Our thanks to our very own Luke Fox.

Jason Bucla in studio. Oh, my, I'm going to pick his brain like crazy because he's a former scout. And he knows. knows everything you need to know about values, draft picks, and prospects. All right. We are halfway through of not solving a thing. Every week.

Every day. More when we return after these words, do not go away. That is an order.