Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: What's Wrong with Auston?

Episode Date: March 4, 2025

Nick Kypreos and Sam McKee welcome Justin Bourne back to the cohost chair before looking back on the Leafs' 3-2 shootout loss to the Sharks on Monday. They get into Auston Matthews' play, whether his issues are mental or physical, questions around Craig Berube's process, Macklin Celebrini's potential and much more. Later, they reexamine how aggressive the Leafs should be on Brayden Schenn, what it would cost to acquire him and how a potential move for him would impact John Tavares' future in Toronto. Finally, Sam cooks up some mock trades for the Leafs' different targets at the deadline. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, here we go. It's the real Kipper and Bourne show in its truest form as we welcome back into our program. Welcome back. The one, the only, Justin Bourne off a much needed rest from Sammy and I. Nothing more restful than sharing a bed with an eight year old. It's at Disney. At Disney, yeah, no, feeling great. Honestly, it was really, really nice, but glad to be back.

Well, terrific timing by you. You let Gord Stella come in here with all the grunt work of nothing going on really and then you come in with three and a half days to go to the trade deadline and you pick up on all the juicy storylines. Trade deadline baby I did I will say this sincerely I very excited to come back like missed you guys I know the Leafs played like three or four times while I was gone. So yeah, let's let's trade for people alongside Sammy McKee Derek Brandeo Jake Schultz some Nick Kiprios. This is the leaf our

Edition of our program. We are live on sports at 590 The fans sports at 360 and sports net plus. Sorry, Sammy jump in. Yeah Really happy to have you back, Borny. Also, I should say thanks to, well, you guys are picking up the side, but thanks to Gord Stehlik for stepping in. I'm surprised you're not wearing your customary paper bag after spending a week paying for everything in USD. I'm sure the dollar with today's news is just going to be great, going to keep improving.

Everett's portfolio is looking Everyone's just things are going great boys Really glad we get to come in here and talk about hockey as the world burns, but it's great So everything's great you're at Disney and they said hey nice to meet you where you're from. You're like I gotta go. Yeah Honestly, it's intense times a little bit but every now and there it's all you know bubble gum and rainbows and all that so didn't think about politics till I got home. Any uh any hockey thoughts down there? Any people just dying to give you

some Florida Panthers or Tampa Bay Lightning? I swear to god, I sat down on a shuttle bus to go to Disney the first day. The guy sits beside me. He uh sees a maple leaf on my bag. He's uh from Vegas. Huge Golden Knights fan Leaf on my bag. He's from Vegas, huge Golden Knights fan. Name is Shannon. He's gonna come up here to Toronto. He wants to meet everyone. He's immediately into hockey, so.

Okay, so not a, but no Florida fans. No, none of that. So what was the term you used? Bubble gum and what? Rainbows. And rainbows. Yeah. Okay, and we probably thought it was bubble gum

and rainbows with a Leafs winning streak. Honestly, every time I checked my phone, they win another game. I was like, God, I'm missing all the fun. But then I got here and Sammy's like, they weren't that good. And more bubble gum and rainbows last night with a two nothing lead, Sammy. And then it went from bubble gum and rainbows to what exactly? Poo. Oh, God, that's a little strong.

It went to crap, I don't know what to say. I did get to watch all of that last night and boy, I hope the games while I was gone were more, I don't know, complete than that one last night. I gotta tell ya, if you missed, you would've seen the Carolina game and then you left, you would've seen the Chicago game and then you left, you would have seen the Chicago game, and then you left, they played the Tuesday against the Bruins,

which was an excellent comeback. And then I missed Rangers in Pittsburgh. Rangers, they weren't very good, and the Penguins game, they weren't very good. The Goaltending wasn't great. I didn't think either of those games, they were very good. I tried my best last week to say the positive, because I was thinking of you, right?

Yeah. Come on, Kepper. More positive. I heard that little JB voice over my shoulder, but there was a part of me that said there's parts of every game that they've won that I didn't really like, but it's okay because they find a way to win. And that seems to be the narrative. And then it's almost as if all of it caught up to them last night

Yeah, I told Sammy I was gonna mention this to you because I did go back and I watched the games like the 10-minute condensed Versions I watched last night. I watched Austin Matthews lose Ricard Raquel against Pittsburgh in a gross goal I watched him lose the bandaged Against the Rangers and I gotta you, is our boy okay? I mean, he looks, he's looking. It is a ongoing topic of discussion. We tapped on it a little bit between Gordai and Sammy. And I think there's just, there's,

whether it's huge, huge Austin Matthew fans or still ones that are a little bit more critical and nitpicky like me, but we all agree that we're not seeing what we've been accustomed to the majority of his career. Yeah, I mean, I, you know, looking, reading all the different things about the trade deadline and what the Leafs need to do, you know,

I saw someone saying that the Leafs need to get Tommy Novak or something like that. Tommy Novak? You know, and it's like, if Austin Matthews and the big guys don't score, if they're not the best versions of themselves, it doesn't matter. Yeah. This whole thing doesn't work. So I would say that it's getting concerning that playoffs start in five weeks, and he's on pace for a 33 goal season in 68 games.

Yeah, that's like a piece of this that has to come together. He just looks. Yeah. Lethargic. I am. That's the perfect word. I'm leaning towards, and we've picked this apart all season long,

and there's ample reason to have always suggested or looked at physically is he okay based on the amount of time that he missed earlier on the season and that was a legit thing but right now I'm I'm really leaning towards what's going on between the ears and is there a sense of him hitting a brick wall? Is there a little bit of a burnout here? Is he just sick of hockey right now a little bit? And it does happen. Yeah, I'm telling you. Yeah, I've taught I've played with guys, really high end guys where it's like also been a low end guy. It's not. It's not fun to come

to the rink right now. So is that what we're seeing right now out of him? Yeah, maybe. You know, I kind of forget. Like, the year he scored 40, did we all just went, we all went away and were like, ah, his wrist was a little off. You know, we kind of chalked it up to injury why he didn't look like his... Is that 22, 23? So, it was, yeah, it was 40, then 69, then whatever this season's gonna be. So, it was yeah, it was 40 then 69 then whatever this season is gonna be so it's before that But like he looks like that to me and we don't we never really got an answer a solid answer as to why? I understand early in the season There was some we think back you went to Germany worked on whatever but he's been playing in the lineup like every game We saw him in OT for the Americans. He hasn't he doesn't look like that. I said moments

Where he's looked normal, like we know him normal. Right. And I will say the thing that my friends say when we talk about it, it's just like, is he going to bed? Is he getting enough sleep? He looks tired. Like, I don't mean he looks slow out there.

I mean, he looks physically tired. He just looks tired. Like him going on the backside of Raquel instead of getting to the front side, the Dallas one and then seconds into the period, by the way, what's like at the end of a shift? It's like he didn't want to engage. He didn't want to get underneath them. He's just like, I can lift a stick and that's what happened. Even the for check when he's going in with when he used to go

in and fight for a 5050 puck puck, in his height, it was really like a 70-30 or an 80-20. Now it's a legit 50-50. He was first in four check chances by Sport Logic the last couple years. I don't, I haven't, he hasn't been first last time I checked, I can check recently. No, first and for check chances Yeah, usually yeah, we we see it

We see it and then often he's guessing on which side to go to and often he's on the wrong side He because he's picking the puck side not the body side. He's trying to pick pockets and go the other way Which is not something he had been doing but so I mean, can I ask that? not something he had been doing. But so I mean, can I ask that when the stakes got turned up a bit? Sorry, he's sixth in the NHL and four check chances. But I mean, that's not first. Yeah. And six is still pretty good. We talked about the four nations and how you talked about potentially

a wall, you know, not coming to the ring. It's not like they're losing, though. So that theory, it's not like they've won. What do they want? They want five in a row going in this. But he's just not leading. For sure. He's not leading the charge.

But you watch him in the Four Nations and you watch that final game where the stakes are elevated and it's like it's a meaningful game. It's not February or March 4th against the worst team in the NHL. You see him have flashes of looking like his... So is that the hope that in the playoffsL, you see him have flashes of looking like his normal. Is that the hope that in the playoffs he finds it? That's what I'm thinking. That's all Leafs fans have.

100%. That's it, is that, I've seen it, I've lived it, where a teammate, a star player on your team can feel like nothing went right for a regular season, but then there's that fresh start, that feeling like everybody's at zeros and everybody's got a clean slate. And the next thing you know, this guy's got three goals and four games.

Yeah. And all can be forgotten. Then that's the hope. That's all any leaf and has Left moving forward here. Hope has always worked out great It'd be nice if you went on a little bit of a heater here I'm not sure anybody can really see it coming with how many games left 20 Yeah, yeah, roughly

You know looking at his game log you go back to the 10 point game points, right? By the way, yeah But he's also he has going back to January 25th. He's played whatever 10 12 games is one goal. Yeah You know, that's not Matthew's like I know you wanted him to be more of a disher But you didn't want him to never school. Yeah, I'm scored it the one thing that, again, is pushing me to lean towards, it's more of a mental thing than a physical thing, is the fact that he played on a back-to-back night last night, 25 minutes.

If Craig Bruby thinks there's anything physically wrong with this guy, you don't come back home from an afternoon game in Pittsburgh to play your number one center man 25 minutes. Against one of the worst road teams ever. Yeah, I like the quote in Luke Fox's article when he was talking about their record in February and he said they're O for February. That's what they are.

Can I, so this is something that I don't necessarily believe, but it's been DM'd to me a lot. It's in my mentions a lot. It's talked about. We had Doug McLean on, I don't know how long ago, at the start of the year with the 100 pound C on the chest. And you're searching for reasons, you're talking about how it being a mental stuff like is there anything to it because it keeps getting brought up to me by fans by people. I get DMs. I get messages about it.

Like it does feel like searching to me. I know. But just because two years ago he was the exact same player he is right now when he scored 40. But I don't see weight of the sea on his shoulders. He hasn't acted differently. He hasn't, it hasn't. Which could be taken as a criticism by the way, if you wanted it.

Yeah. Whatever the case, yeah. You could see it so many different ways. You can also see, I can also tell you that I don't wanna see a guy pretending to be something that he's not. That's true too. You don't want him to suddenly try to be Herb Ruck every time he talks in the dressing room.

We can see it in so many different ways. If I did see a guy trying so many different ways to lead, then I'd be more inclined to say, yes, he's trying something differently to warrant the change. Right? But it's not. He's still something differently to to warn the change. Right. But it's not. He's still the same guy. He plays the same way. He's not more vocal in the media.

He's not stepping up in postgame comments and saying a lot more meaningful things. He's just the same guy. Yeah. And yeah, let's hope that other year's there. Six shots last night, six shots again before maybe it's just expectations are so high, but he's not, we know there's more from him. So hopefully he finds this last year Matthews is scoring a hat trick against the worst road team in the history of the league.

It certainly felt like, you know, like if you're, we're at the point last year right now where we're talking about the 70 goal pursuit and how like that would have been a one on the ledger where he added Two or three right against had 50 and 50 one point against Gorgiev Like it's just it's just not the same. So hopefully it's just we know it's in there Hopefully that flip just switches when April 16th or 17 arrives. Okay, let's Okay, let's get back on track with a few. The Sharks. Kipper Clippers. Let's go ahead and coach.

These are as mad and sad as I've heard Barube all year, just as a heads up. Really? Yeah, so let's play clip one and we'll go from there. I thought that, turned the puck over a little bit in the third period. One ended up in the back of our net. Just need to do a better job checking

in the third period, I guess. Just not turn the puck over as much as we did. Yeah. I don't want to, my first thought when they blew that lead last night is This is a classic Overthink Lee fan move but you know you look back over the season and they've been a good against bad teams And they really haven't had those struggles that they had in years Paskin's bad teams. They're gonna lose the division by one point

They're gonna lose the division by one they're gonna lose the division by one they're gonna lose the division by one point and we're gonna go back and they blew a two-nothing lead to the San Jose Sharks. Just stay on Borubi for a second. I can't. Would you calm down? Just saying. Would you calm down? Sam they're 7-0 in overtime. They've got all the extra points they can get. Stay on Borubi for a second. Okay. Because I've liked Craig. I've I've liked the fact that in so many ways we've all believed this that they they have a style that can take them further than Something that we haven't seen in ten tries already. I don't know eight I don't know how many playoff rounds. It's roundups basically.

But I don't really like those comments I just heard. Really? Yeah, it's like, I guess. I mean. You'd like it a little more forceful. Yes, I do. Have we had a game where he's come out and been like, He has not shot the gun. We talked about Keefe and bullets. This guy might not have any. I have no knowledge of what is being said behind the scenes.

But if it's remotely like I just heard, I wish you would come down on him every once in a while, a lot harder. Yeah. And say that's a joke. We're playing a bad team at home to goal lead. What are we doing? Something harder than that. How about Clip 2? See if you like the improvement of his tone in Clip 2.

Number 2, please, Eric. Well, it's disappointing. Any loss is disappointing. Two-nothing lead, you know. We're in a good spot to close it out, and we didn't do the job. And we had a chance in OT with the power play and couldn't get one.

Yeah, that's more what Kip's talking about, right? When you're like, yeah, we should have shot it in the net. But even like, I don't care about overtime and I don't care if you found a way to win and get those two points. It's still bad. And that to me, it's not about finding a way to beat non-playoff teams to win. It's about this won't work when we need it most against teams that are playoff ready.

Yeah, it won't work, guys. I don't care how many points we get. It's not going to work. People got sick of hearing Sheldon Keefe say, talk about process. But at this point, the Leafs started the first 20 game chunk of Borubi's tenure as one of the best teams at denying high danger chances. They didn't give them up. Over the last 40 games since then, they're bottom third of the league.

They're like 22nd in the league and high danger chances again. To me, it's like, that's great. They won five in a row. At some point you got to look at the process and saying, I don't care that we're getting the points. We can't be giving up bottom third amount of chances in the NHL. And that to me is where we haven't heard him be mad enough that it's like great.

We won, but I'm upset at this rather than, oh, we could have got the points. I hope he's giving it to him behind the scenes and saying, I don't need to do it in front of anybody in the media I don't have to I'll just Deal with it myself. I mean you have to imagine he is I Don't know right then then but don't don't overly pretend in the media either just kind of find a way to just

Let your fan base know that they're not fooling me here. Okay, that's all You know, it does like when you talk to someone who doesn't follow Super closely and they tell you you see the Leafs of one five in a row and then and they go ah they're on fire and you watch them enough to know that's not actually true they're kind of squeaking by points or whatever but you don't step on it that feels like Borubi right now is you know you don't want to ruin his fun but like you're you are noticing it's been bad right the like you're seeing what we're saying just need to know you're seeing

this the Tefoli goal on the wraparound from was that what we're saying just need to know you're seeing this the two fully goal on the wrap-around from Was that what they're crocky? Well as a backpack you're you're Connor do or like you're not scoring. Yeah Your sole job is to not turn the puck over at the blue line. Yeah, that's it. You're the simple line Get the fucking can't have that happen. We we lose We lose a seven game series on that play. Okay, and I can't have you turn the puck over Yeah, we do have a clip on yarn croc. Oh, yeah the clip here. Yeah Exactly. You're talking about like that. That's your get it in deep spot right there. Now yarn croc coming back to the middle of the ice Look for a body. I know he's out of touch, right? It's the only played eight and a half minutes last night, but

but ugly It's okay to let people know that that will that will cost us a Seven game series that sort of stuff is what we have to clean up that's the sort of stuff we've seen consistently and but they're finding ways to win off of non-playoff teams but now the Tampa Bays and the Florida Panthers will eat you up for lunch so you with that so you're going to Vegas tomorrow night then you're in Colorado Saturday night then you're in Colorado Saturday night then you have the the hockey club on Monday who's Utah? Yeah, I guess there I mean they're fighting for their playoff No, they're doing stuff though. They're plucky. Yeah, and then you go to Florida So you're gonna come together real quick for Florida. Maybe they're back home for Florida

I think they've got to come together real quick and the other thing I did not like About last night. Can I guess? Go why is Mitch Maher playing 27 minutes and a Monday night? It's an extension of that. What the hell is happening? What it is is I saw team a and team B last night And that included sucking up almost two minutes of every power play I heard that when I was gone in against Boston, they didn't have those guys on the ice to tie the game up in the final minute. Correct.

Which is Shaw. I was like, I'm sorry, Holmberg after scored to tie the game. But they were out there for a minute and a half, two minutes. They were sucking air beyond belief. I don't think it was. It wasn't like, hey, let's give someone else a chance. It was like, these guys physically can't do it. Marter said he was breathing through his eyelids. So That checks out so

It again last night. It's okay if you want to lean on certain guys, but I Don't know what max Domi played 12 minutes 13 minutes. It's like it could be 15. It's and maybe 27 and a half 25 for for Matthew's Almost 23 or 24 for Matthew nice. I like Matthew nice. Yeah, but like 23 24 minutes for him in game 60 against San Jose a lot and then Willie and Tavares still like 20. Yeah, they have four forwards that played more than their top D

Hey, I understand those if you're playing in like for example, you know, but next week when you're got Florida in town It's a tight game. It's a division race. You feel like you can only ride your top guys as team a team B I feel like you're a little bit more willing, but like, Connor Dewar can't survive three more minutes against the Sharks? Like, you know, you're not even chasing the game. You were up. To that point, if you can't play those guys more, you need to change the guys. Correct. You should be able to handle those minutes. However, and there's a certain deadline in a few days that I actually do think those guys can handle those minutes. Fine. Like,

yeah, they it was a crappy play whatever but like they're okay. Listen, I watched Period and a half two beers. I I liked their game last night. Yeah up to nothing Better than I've liked them in a week and a half the bottom line or the whole team There was parts of the game where I'm going they got got good energy. San Jose can't get a sniff. Robertson and Holmberg, pretty good. Nick Robertson had two back checks, three back checks this week that I'm going, hey, way to go kid. Way to go. Yeah. Play Clip 3, Barubei. Derek. I actually, you know, liked a lot of our games. Second period was really good. Took the game over, power play was good.

Got us a couple goals. Knit picking anything, well it's not nit picking. Missing that too much tonight. We had a lot of opportunities during the missed and that. So I thought the second period, they were as dominant as they've looked against any team. I was okay, and then what happened? They hit a brick wall.

They just tired. It's not that. It's not that. They just came, 90% of the team just came off vacation. It's not that, Kiffer. It's something with this team that regardless of coach, regardless of who's around it, regardless of who's running it, when they have a little bit of an opportunity to let the foot off the gas because you think it's going to be easy, they'll do it.

You know that I agree with you on that. That's been a consistent criticism of mine, but I can't deny the fact that they have been there. 27 and 0 going into the third year of the lead. They have held on to lead. It's amazing. I know that their first blown lead is to the worst team in the league. Stolars still came within a whisker of getting them two points. You guys notice this? He's a pretty good goalie. Yeah.

First, the one was a stinker last night. The one where he got caught on the post, the one that we just showed there. Over commit kind of a, but I mean, like I think is that his first really bad one all year? I can't even think of other ones. So. But. Yeah.

They were still right there. They were still right there. They were still right there. They were still right there. They were still right there. They were still right there. They were still right there. They were still right there. They were still right there. They were just showed there. It will over commit kind of a... I mean like I think it's at his first really bad one all year. I can't even think of other ones. But they were still right there. Right there to take two points. Last night, do you put any stock in the amount of attempts that missed it? They had 78 shot

attempts last night and 27 hit the net. Like is that just not taking the extra stride to get open? It's bad. They think it shots is really bad wide They just for how many attempts? 77 78 how many on 27 28? Yeah, that's crazy. Like 50 left. That's crazy My math right there. Is there anything on stats that can? Tell us where they that would fit in. I wonder what an average, like what would Tampa or Florida's attempts last night compare to how many times they hit the net?

I wonder if on the year. Are they trying to shoot it 80 times, 90 times? All right, I'm looking at that. Let's do some. I'm curious on that. Shots landed on net percentage. Wow. Looking at that. Okay. Macklin Celebrini. Let's do some curious on shots landed on net percentage Okay, um Macklin Celebrani Yeah, he's good. Yeah, maybe it you know as we're entering into best on best time here

He's gonna be a player. Yeah, he you know He reminded me a little bit He does have a bit of the Matthews quick twitch Defensive stuff and like along the boards where he can lift sticks and like good reads and he's Like that play made he wins pucks like crazy play made on Dolby and overtime where he set up Will Smith in front Yeah, and stole it He just put his hip into him lifted the stick one motion out in front of the net like I'm sure like the slot-path percentage I'm sure the fancy stuff like he was just putting pucks in the sweet spot the whole night

I love watching him, you know Like the slot pass percentage, I'm sure the fancy stuff. Like he was just putting pucks in the sweet spot the whole night. I love watching him play. I'd rather be San Jose than Chicago. For sure. In terms of the rebuild and the direction they're headed. They came in with an eight game skid, did they not? They did. And there's a real, there's a real big part of me

last year, or last night that said good for them. They hung in there. It wasn't a pretty at times, but because they couldn't get to the net and they don't have that many guys that have the ability outside of their young talent you just mentioned, they still hung in there. And they deserved two points out of that game last night. And the Leafs didn't deserve two points. And that's how it should usually work on most nights. The team that ends up winning deserves it more than the team that you just faced.

I'll give Sam some credit for one thing here. This is the, I think last night was the Ontario tax. Like I think if they're down to nothing, to Florida, no one's watching, whatever, they might just go away. This is one where it's like everyone's at home, the fans are, you know, it's full of their parents, they don't wanna get embarrassed, they keep pushing.

I think they got a good push from the hometown boys. Who was it who scored the first goal? Jack Thompson from Curtis, Ontario? Yeah, a kid I'd never heard of. Like Ontario boy, you know, makes good. I'm like, yeah, of course he does. Yeah, Tefol Ontario. Yeah, a kid I'd never heard of. They're like, Ontario boy, you know, makes good. I'm like, yeah, of course he does. Yeah, Tefoli. Yeah.

In many ways, nobody's paid attention to them all year. They come to the biggest market in the world, the biggest hockey market, the most attention. Of course, it's their one time to make a name for themselves. Isn't Tefoli, like, isn't he Scarborough guy? Like, yeah, I didn't even think of that.

Yeah. It was the Scarborough and Curtis Ontario show. It's not the setting where you're going to get a team go, I guess we don't have it tonight. Yeah, it's sort of one chance. And I thought they came out hot too. The only bad period really was the second. So yeah. Not enough Jaren Croc to get any sort of opinion. Right?

He's going to be the same guy. Yeah, he's going to compete hard, skate a million miles. Likely a slightly worse version of the same guy, another year older, Mr. Year of Hockey. It's way too early to say. I think he could be a depth guy, but... For who? Kenny? Okay, I'm trying to be positive.

Well, it is trade deadline week and having this guy back in his 2. whatever million salary. Yeah. I don't think it's that big of a deal. The cap. No? Well, if they add some salary like Shen, they'll just find a way to alleviate through Sending guys down So yeah, yeah Reeves probably Reeves Doers at one point two one point one five is the motion you get so yeah You basically make those guys disappear and a half million right there. Yeah

We and you do remember last year like at the playoffs like they went down to 20 guys at some point, right? Like just to make sure you're under the cap. So it's true. Not not that big of a deal We saw a double retention today for Trent Frederick. Yes, he'd have a nice for the Leafs. Yeah so I have a few Fake traits that I cooked up because we're getting into that season people He's I don't know if people still like that kind of thing. But I will say like you talking about waving these like waving guys or

whatever to free up some cap space you know you go through I think we talked about this a little bit last year but it's worth revisiting before we go to break the Toronto Maple Leafs cap page is not an easy one to trade from. No. It's just, you know, you have, as everyone knows, four guys making the most amount of money, that none of them are going anywhere, and then the guys underneath that don't make enough to like make up a big salary,

unless you trade three or four of them out, which then you have no depth. It's a very complicated puzzle for true living to figure out with the least cat page I really is treat some credit You recently said this week, you know, you have to separate fact from fiction about who's available and what you can do You know, there's not everyone likes to go. Yeah, you need like a big top pair right Dean It's like you go to the list and it's like well, there's prey going no one else

So I mean everybody I think I forget who it was who we had on last week that was joking about this that everyone's got the same wish list they're looking for a depth center and a really good top four D man that shoots right it's like everyone wants the same thing so we'll see but I got I cooked up a few I think I got six or seven fake ones so if you guys want to go through that when we come back we absolutely do and then we'll also maybe dive in a little deeper. Braden Shenn, is it still possible? Probability on it. If not, where do the Leafs go next?

Did you guys talk about that on the regional that I missed, the Rangers one? I saw something on Twitter that you guys had had chats about that. Is that right? Bernie, I don't know what I had for breakfast today. Matthew Nye's or something? Is that what I had for breakfast or something Yeah, we did okay we did talk about whether or not

How big of a swing that the Leafs want to make if in fact ranting in is out there where the Leafs We'll get into that after the break and then obviously in the national hour as well We where we will welcome in Steve Valiquette, analyst for the Rangers, CEO ClearSight Analytics. He's got plenty on that, including Spencer Knight in Chicago, had a pretty good night last night. We'll get his thoughts on the big trade as well. So do not go away.

And we come back after these words. The best Blue Jay show out there, period. Blair and Barker, be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. The Kipper-yost Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. It's a real Kipper and Bourne show, Leaf Hour edition. So it's, it really sounded going into this week that there might've been a focus on Braden Shen. Where are you JB on how aggressive should the

Leafs be? So the overall question of how aggressive they should be I think very but I don't think Shen. Shen is a great player and all that but I think the cost for Shen to have a declining asset at multiple years, he's not, that doesn't, I don't want that for the Leafs. I feel like if you could just have them, of course you'd love to have them, but it's gonna cost a lot and the contracts are risk to me. You a big believer in the? I think that's, I think those are excellent points

and I gotta think that that sort of thing's weighing on Brad Tree Living and Brendan Shanahan and maybe not so much Craig Broby, who raved about him. Were you here or did you leave? No, I didn't hear. Oh my God. Oh my God. Mr. Rochon, I wish you.

Two oh my gods for me. Yeah, hold on. I'll try to find that clip, quick. Try to find it. But because I don't think we ever played it Did we play it? Okay, but like JB was not here for it like behind the scenes I remember so I was in the Leafs coaching office when they had DJ Smith as an assistant coach and Lou Lammer Ella walks by the room and DJ goes Lou Lou Lou Yeah, you gotta give me Roman Polak.

You gotta give me Polak. We have no one who can kill a penalty. You gotta get me this guy. If you're a coach, you don't care about the assets, the contract, you're just like, bring me a guy I want who does a thing I need. We have the clip. Oh, perfect, let's play it.

Yeah, I congratulate him today. I love that player. I love the guy. He's a superhuman being. And you know, a thousand games, a lot of games in the league. He's a dedicated player. I always say that guys that can play that long are dedicated to the game. They do all the right things throughout the summer, game in and game out, preparing. And he's a very prepared player you know and looks

after his body and looks after himself and loves the game he's a hockey nerd he just loves the game and so it was great great to see him get a thousand games and very happy he's handsome hey watch my dog yeah I'm not one to know the exact rules or how they are written up on tampering. I don't know. But it could be just one sentence saying that you're not allowed to talk about other players who are under contract It could be that it could be that Simple I don't know but

You don't hear that. I'm telling you right now. We've yeah been in the business a long time You don't really hear a coach or general manager talk about another team's player under contract quite like that. Unless it's like Mick Davis. I love that player. I know it's based off of a thousand games. And I think it could hide behind a thousand games. You're definitely right. That's going to be the life.

We're reflecting on a player that has been talked about and focused on Kipper I love that player I love that for love that player. I just saying. They just say be comfortable in the Niagara and Wellington King West area. I know, just like. I love the guy.

This guy says specifics. I've got a big house. He could even live with me if you want. He do hypothetically be here. Just saying. Yeah, he's probably talking more to tree living than he is about anything else. But this is my point about Pollack is that coaches always appeal to their GMs. Go get me guys I want.

So of course, of course, Peruvian love to have okay, so in that vein, would you like to hear what I had for a Trade for Braden Shadden for the Toronto May please. Yes. Okay So let me know if this is crazy because I'm gonna say it So all of these trades involve Max Domi Calliarn Croc or David Camp as part of it for contract filler So just bear that in mind, but I'll start with Max Domi, Cali Yarncroc, or David Camp as part of it for contract filler. So just bear that in mind. But I'll start with Max Domi, Nick Robertson, Easton Cowan, and a second in 2026, their third this year, which is Colorado's for Braden Shen at 2.25 retained.

Retained? Yeah. I love the retention on that. Now I'm into it. Because you have to give up a lot for them to retain for two years after this. So they're not even going to want Domi. That's just like the, you know, make the money work. No, and the thing it was Domi has three more years, three more years.

So like, there's not going to be many teams that are gonna wanna take on that term. You know, unless St. Louis does think that he's a plus asset, someone who can contribute to them. But, what you're offering them is Robertson, Cowan, and a couple of picks. Which is, you know, for, depends how you look at the Shen deal and him aging out, I think very good. Yeah.

You asked me, is a Leaf fan, Do I want to do that as a leaf? Who hangs up first St. Louis What does the fact that I'm stuck means you you've drawn up a good second in 2026 Yeah, and you use Easton Cowan is sort of the first round pick instead of actually giving up the I think what people at home Listen to this have to consider is like it's gonna be a lot together Well, and this is the year it you know, like we've said for years all in all in all in but it's like Marner's not under contract next year. Yeah Tavares is not under contract next year You're not gonna have this many you got both goalies who are cheap. Nice is you know cheap

You kind of have to take a shot. And it's not like there's this great player available out there for a seventh rounder. If you want to get good now, it's going to cost. Now, okay, go ahead. No, you go ahead. I also think it matters how you're valuing Easton Cowan and his season and where he's at in his progression. Oh, you mean the guy just scored a hat trick including the including the overtime winner against the Oshawa generals on Sunday? If that's- He's having a great year. Okay. No, I didn't- did that happen? It did. Amazing. Yeah

I've heard some good some bad. I've heard lots of good. There's some bad. Yeah. I think it's very expensive for a guy and I'll go back to what you said a while ago, that like, Shen's, Shen will be 34 by the time next season starts, if I'm not mistaken. Jesus, is that right? Yep. 34. That's pretty relevant.

Okay. Correct. Six, five for three more years after this. I can't, we're looking- You're right. Yep. No, you're wrong Three more after this it is. Yes, 25 26 26 27 27 28. Okay, so Yeah, I know it's a big difference

We're looking through it. I resented a leaf a leaf fans eyes Like let's let's focus on what St. Louis sees here. Okay. Number one is how many teams are out there now bidding on Shen? And I'm gonna tell you, five, not no, no, not five, more less less. Oh, less. Really? He's not. He's not locked lot and he's not Scott. I love that contract at his age. Thank you You got to be careful that you're not bidding against yourself here. Okay, and so

Force it back in Doug Armstrong's hands for a second. Okay, I'll give you maybe this and this but I'm not giving you this, this, this and this. Because you always have the option of keeping them. But you're gonna have a 34 year old who isn't producing like a second line sentiment right now for three more years, starting at age 34. You okay with with that because you're passing the team on to a new general manager in in Alex Steen and I'm sure he would appreciate you getting this thing off the books for him You know there are cases where teams have essentially said we'll give you this guy

Just take him off our our cap sheet was that Hatch ready did that from maybe Vegas to Carolina? I just take him off our our cap sheet was that hatch already did that from maybe Vegas to Carolina Where it's just like you can have this guy. We just don't want to pay him anymore is Shen that I didn't know no I didn't know Because of what keeps talking about if you take Calin out of that deal and say we'll give you a second a third and Nick Robertson you got a clean cap sheet You know are we getting closer now and you get to keep that prospect? I guess it depends what they're what they're looking at. And because you have to consider the cost of that being on your cap. Yeah, you like it like Shen for many reasons. And we just heard the raving review from Craig

Borubi. I love the player. But so does Craig Borubi, but he loved but he really really loved him at 31 in 2019. Yeah at 28. Are you remembering that player and thinking that's the player you're getting today? In 2019 he had 54 points in 72 games. This year he's got 12 goals in 62 games. He got 38 points. I covered that Stanley Cup final with with Elliot and Kelly Rudy on Hockey Night in Canada. And I remember him being a very good player. But I remember a Stanley Cup being driven by Ryan O'Reilly,

by Ryan O'Reilly, Pareco, Petrangelo, and Jordan Binnington. That was your heart and soul, and Shen was a great complimentary player behind Ryan O'Reilly. Okay. If you do not.

So leave, say no. The male leader. Well, the retention changes it. You mentioned do. Not. So leave, say no. The male leader. Well, the retention changes it. You mentioned retaining, what would you say, two? Two and a half. That's, you know, now you get them at four. Yeah. Now I'm in.

But I will say, if you do this, you're not resigning to Varus. Yeah. Redundant to me, right? I mean, you're looking at a depth center veteran guy making about four. So, yes, you're looking at a depth center veteran guy making about four. So, yes, you're right. And again, if you're...

Tavares has twice as many goals. If you're thinking like you're bringing in Shen in and moving Tavares out, are you better off keeping Tavares, moving Shen out and keeping the assets? Yeah, you are you are Okay We just either I don't know seriously light. I'm just telling you that hey, we're working through it That's what this is a process working through it And I like Shen because I think he's tougher than Tavares and he's yeah probably a little bit more They compete but they compete in different ways, right?

and I think Shen would compete a little harder against a Florida Panther team than Puck possession compete with Tavares against Florida wins Pucks and face-offs and shens gonna fight Sam Bennett They're not somebody over maybe fight somebody but is but are you sure you're getting that? Next one? We just really took up a lot of your time, sorry. Yeah, that's okay. Listen, that was kind of the point here. What do I got here?

Give us the guy that Kip and I both want. Who is that? Risto. Okay. Cali Yarn Kroc is part of this as some salary. David Camp as well for salary. Easton Cowan. Chadwick, who was one of the captain of the WHL, one of the prospects, a first in 2026, a third in 2027 for Lotton. Are you getting Lindros in his prime? A lot for Lotton and Rasmasmus Risto line in four and a half retained from a point one combined

Lawton and Risto with retention. Yeah No, okay, who said who's who are you saying? No the fliers Leafs, okay. It's just no much. It's just too much Lawton is a 10 15 score. There's a mid teams Bidding like you're gonna get them for cheap and you added a right shot defense a D man. That's you know, good player I don't know. I think it's a lot but these deadline deals are always a lot. You're right Yeah, the thing I really you know, I mentioned wrist alignment. I Think he's a good fit for the lead

He is a lot of his like underlying stuff in his mid-20s are have come around and he's actually become I and I've always felt that really long D take a while to sort it out chara's adorabh they get there it takes some time and now I like the player five point one million is cheap I think he has two more years after this gotta think it retain a little that'd be like mckabe 2.0. Yeah, he's had a 40-point season I think in the past week and a half There's been an awakening on that blue line with no Chris Tann of yeah

And I didn't I didn't like it last night, especially Certainly haven't liked it in a week and a half without him there Yeah, you can't have two or three of Benoit Timmons Myers too many Hold your breath guys. I think he'd be a very welcome Edition what about this one to help the the back end? Yarncroc Benoit

And a third rounder this year to San Jose from Marilou Ferraro. That kid competed real hard and looked like you wanted to be a Leaf last night. Is that your take? Do you like that, Trey? I'm okay, yeah. I didn't mind the kid. He's got a lot of spunk. But like, you're just, I'm just basically taking out Simone Benoit and sticking him

into those minutes and subtracting Cali Yarncroc's money and in give them a third round pick I think he might go for more than that but yeah I think I would do that yeah I would do that uh for though I think is you know he's definitely better than the bottom end of what the leaves have that's what I'm like getting at maybe even up to a say it's a fire last night I like them yeah and I like that generally someone who's not afraid of a little bit of attention like that the The other guy from Chicago the it's harder because they've already retained. Yeah, I like Connor Murphy Yeah point I was gonna make they've retained three and you said that's the max you can have they had their three retention slots

There's three retention slots are all used so they can't hold on to any more money. I do like I do like Donato and Murphy combination out of there somehow the Nato's in the ufa after this year. Oh gosh. I'd like him He's like the Nato. Oh, yeah, I do so that big is he nobody nobody's Compete a good year, and he competes and he's got some nice hands and I don't know. Well, he only makes two million. He's 28, which I really like. You have six foot 190. Yeah.

So, I mean, you could, what are you giving up? 22 rules, 45 assists. I had a tough time with that one because of the retention situation where, you know, that's a lot of money. I think that's six, what is it I had here? Quickly, I think it was six point four coming on the books for Murphy and you'd have to have another team retain money you trade them too but I don't think

that one would cost you as much as like getting I don't know maybe it would what's Murphy make or for this year and yeah you just you just use the Marlies there you don't really need to you fit him in Yeah, I think you could fit him in he's purely defensive, but he's top 40 and hits big body You know a straight hand shot us alongside Morgan Riley know it's worked with a bushkin plus. Yeah, like a good labushkin Yeah, beside Riley that would that work for me. So there you go.. I mean I have a bunch more we don't really have time Yeah, it is it is I had one for for For Brock Nelson, okay. I mean they're gonna have to retain a bit of money on him. He's old six

Yeah, you could do it. You know something with one of the top picks and One of the least talk picks like a cow and whatever but it is so hard to do what you're doing It's really hard is so hard is is Luke gonna help the Leafs talk picks like a Cowan or whatever, but it is so hard to do what you're doing It's really hard. It is so hard is is Lou gonna help the Leafs. No. Well, hey is Lou out of his mind Stink they are I love I love you Islanders they they need to move on boy do they ever they are no good They're not good enough and they're gonna to hang on to Paul Mary and Nelson. They have to trade those guys. Have to. They will.

Lee fans will be so mad. They love the prospects so much. I just traded them all away. Oh, you can't get rid of them. No. Hold on. If either Kipp or I were making up trades, those would be the same names going the other way.

The only way to get assets. Don't trade the guy that's going to contribute in 2031. All right. We're just warming up here as we welcome back Justin born. We go national next with Steve Valakette. We'll continue these conversations. Also talk on the big goalie trade. That's a Spencer Knight. Go to Chicago and get his first win. That is next with Steve Valakette. Don't go away.