Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Where Does Cowan Fit Best?

Episode Date: November 21, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' overtime loss to the Columbus Blue Jackets at home. They discuss Easton Cowan's long-term fit in the top six, Joseph Woll's stabilising presence in net, Max Domi's costly turnover in overtime, and what's behind the blue line's fall-off from last season to this one. Then, they chat about why Morgan Rielly is a change-of-scenery candidate and identify Erik Karlsson as a potential target for a blue line swap. Finally, Nick, Justin and Sam open up the Leafs Line to take your calls and questions!The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Rounding out the week on the Real Kipper and Bourne show, Off the Rails Friday, Leaf Edition in our first hour, which will include in about 35 minutes, Sammy's Leaf line, where you call in. How'd we do today? Triumphant return. Triumphant return. You call in because. the three of us are out of ideas.

It's Friday. For the Toronto Maple Leafs. And then, of course, when we go national, Doug McLean, former NHL president, GM, head coach, author. We'll step in in his Friday spot. We are live on Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet 590, the fan in Toronto,

and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. And if you don't catch us live, download us at your convenience on Spotify. Apple Podcasts and YouTube. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne. Sammy McKee, Frank the Tank. Love Frank.

I saw Frank upstairs. That hair is outstanding. And Derek Brandale, all for the next two hours. Do not move. So today, my sister's heading to London next month, London, England,

visit some of our English relatives that we have over there. and she wanted some World Series hats to take to the family. So I went down to the guy. I was like, oh, I'll do it. I get a discount and I'll head down there on my way to work one day and no problem.

I went down there today. Wasn't expecting the feeling I had walking in there. Oh, yeah. Hurt? Is it still the lineup that I saw in Game 7? It was, no, there's no one there. I mean, there's like 10 people in the store or whatever. They had some World Series hats out, so I got the hats.

The lineup at game seven was absurd. But like, I don't know if I'm ever going to feel the same ever walking in there again. Too soon. Like it was like, I actually had like the frog in my throat, the feelings all over again. It was like, it was a tough. Like you because when you walk into the big J shop, you can kind of look out and you see the field. And I looked out there. I was like, oh, like it's fresh.

I didn't realize how fresh it was until I walked in there. So thanks a lot, Jackie. I almost cried today because I had to go get you to have. Oh, God. There is like, you know, like the liar, liar, Jim Carrey just throughout the day going, I've had better laughing at. Like, what was I thinking? I have those moments with the Jayser.

I'm just like, oh, no. Like, it was just right there. It happens to me four times a week. Yeah. Anyways, so it started to uplift everybody, but the Leafs lost in overtime last night, so that's pretty good for them. Pretty good for them. Oh, let's just stay on the Jays.

Oh, really good. Please. Very funny. It lost at home to Columbus. Not bad. What about Bo? Anything you're hearing over there about Bo? No, Mr. Insider?

Nothing? Nothing? Nothing? Nothing? Nothing? Nothing on Bo. No? Nothing. Is something on other people?

No. I got nothing? I got nothing. I haven't heard. Pete Fairbanks? Heard nothing on the Js. Okay. Okay.

But on the Leafs, we keep hearing guys ready, not ready to return. Not sure, but before we get into what the lineup may look like on Saturday night as they start a road trip. into the Montreal Canadians building let's talk about last night and what we saw and say what you will

did they try a little harder is it looking a little better shots on goal are more controllable to start a game they fought back for a point I guess they played pretty well you know their their lineup is we can't ignore the like

oh every team has injuries like no they're missing really important people for them and a lot of them. So the guys they had in there are not a playoff team, right? If it was just this team all the time, they would not be a playoff team. And I thought they played great, worked hard, in the right spots. I thought even with the guys missing, that was a winnable hockey game.

For sure it was. And they blew it. They blew the opportunity to come out of what I would have guessed at the beginning of the season. that if we can knock off half a dozen scheduled wins, that one was one of them. You had a tired Columbus team that flew from Winnipeg into Toronto.

They're three and four nights. They looked like they were in quicksand. How do you not find a way to get two points last day? That's the scheduled win. And if I told you, okay, there was a game this year where 20 games into the year, Easton Cowan had to play 21 minutes or 20 in change. 20-06 you know you'd have said okay well they lost you know they're chasing the game they're

you know i mean no no nyes no matthews and it's they were struggling with them in the lineup too let's let's be honest here but that one for me last night was one point they got a point but they needed a guy but tampa got two ottawa got two they needed florida got the guy to make a play right they needed matthews to just get that one he gets or nyes to find one or in this case last night it felt like you know Cowan's had lots of chances and for a long time now you're going to say that's good that's great progress he's there I need a couple of those to get across the line with these guys out in particular right now yeah okay so where do you want to start

big picture or you know portions of that game last night where you liked uh didn't like where do you want to start jrb positive really nice to have scott lot in the lineup and i know that hasn't happened it's like his third game of the year and his first in a couple weeks. Just, you know, we talked about their lack of defensive conscience. Mitch Marner's gone. David Camp's gone.

Austin Matthews is out. All these guys that you consider defensive guys. Nice to have Lawton back. Good energy. Good energy. Good penalty killer. Skated well. Yeah.

Nice to see him back. Like bottom. Yeah, bottom six. For a bottom six guy, it's one less thing yet you have to worry about, I think, with him. I think maybe the Cowan conversation is one that can have.

I thought maybe it was his best game last night that he's played. And I think the coach realized that with him starting on the third line and then putting him up to the top line and offensive zone situations. And I think there's two separate conversations to have, one about what he looked like last night and how good he looked and what he's going to look like in a month if he's playing 20 minutes a night. But I would say as a fan, it's very encouraging to see the steps he's already taking. Like he really is

I know he's got to shoot a couple in I totally agree But he was excellent He came in He came in this season As one of the best junior players Like in history Like what he was able to do

And the championships And the consecutive scoring streak And all of that Like It was always set up For this guy to have success Whether or not You thought it could be this early

Or you It's a double-edged sword It's great that he's He's looking great as like he did last night. But like now, are they leaning on him now to be an 18 minute guy? Are they leaning on him to be a top six guy? Are they leaning on him now to make the playoffs by contributing 40 or 50 points this year? Well, I'll say this.

We can't have it both ways on this show. And we can't say, and something I've said is if he's not going to play, there's no point in him being here, right? if he's going to be a scratch and be a fourth liner and not i know you'd like him to play there's times with a young kid like that yeah he's going to hit a certain wall and then you're you want to back him off yeah you don't want to leave him there for sure and part of the part of the issue with him even from day one and he's not the only one is who am i what's my identity what's my role where do i fit in here where do i have a comfort zone

and he's been up, down, fourth line, first line, eight minutes, 20 minutes, Marley's back up. Is this the look we're going to have the rest of the season? Or do we need him now to be running shotgun with someone on the top two lines for this to ever get to a point where how important are you leaning on him to be this year? Well, I mean, you know, you mentioned the varying ice times and stuff. I think at some point, you need to, A, play it by ear and see how much you need them. And during this injured time, they need a guy like this.

And so if they get to a point where, okay, it's too much and we got to back them off, I think that's an option. But I do look at Matthew Schaefer on Long Island and just go, yeah, he'll probably need less at some point. But, you know, you just kind of, you got to go by feel, I think, a little bit and see how much he can handle. I think if they're in a point where they need cow and. to get 40 points to get in playoffs or whatever, they're in big trouble. It's not even... It just doesn't stop there.

Like Matthews has to come back and get 80 points or 90 points. He needs to be a 1.1 point per game guy. There's many guys that have to come back now and be major contributors. I get the feeling that Cowan has to be one of those guys now. I think he can be. And I love... We started this year.

It was him Lawton and Lawrence in pre-season. season. We did those games and we were like, I made the case on one of our preseason panels that I like that line. They looked really good. They made sense as a fourth line. They looked good early last night. They did, yeah, before they moved him up. Like, I think it's encouraging that in that spot he looks good. If you could play him on the third line and he can get you a point every other night, you're chasing a game, you can put him up the line up. And if you're protecting the lead, maybe you back him off a little bit. I like that. I will say, too, the last week or two has been a realization for me, the stuff you're saying about his junior

your career that he's not just going to be a pretty good player he he could be a star in the league like he could be a 90 point star i don't know what star means well i mean take it is you want to take it is a really great player on the carl may police is uh is hegel a star yes okay i don't see him as like a superstar we're arguing semantics he gets 90 points and win stanley copse yeah i don't i don't know if he'll ever get to 90 points i think i think 60 to 70 is a is a is a Great number. I don't know how, I don't think he has a body frame that's going to put on,

like he's not coming in in two or three years as 200 or 205. Yeah, yeah. He's a little, he'll get stronger, no question. He's so smart though. He's really smart. And he's got an engine. And he can go.

And certainly we saw that on the, on the Tavares goal last night. And he doesn't stop. He does not stop. And that's a good thing. That's a good thing. I just say, let's listen to the coach what he had to say about him because it alludes to that.

Clip two, please. Well, he's taken some good steps from day one. And, you know, he's like he's like a dog on a bone out there for me. Like he just works and skates and sees the ice extremely well. He's being a lot more heavier on pucks and making good decisions with the puck. I thought he played a really good game. tonight yeah i just don't think you yeah yeah what it's not not who he's going to be talking about a smaller slighter frame of a guy

i'm not judging his play on how heavy he is you know it's you know last night he's up and down the rink and an overtime he's got you know out of gas the end of a minute shift and he chases the guy behind the net and i'm like don't do it and he's got the legs to just keep going keep going on a team that you don't have a lot of those guys it's nice on the partial break i wanted it bad for him to score yeah like when he he he i don't know he didn't much of a look, but he did have a partial look, and I was like, oh, please shoot this in. It would have been a nice

It didn't happen for him. Yeah. Top. Okay. That's all positives. I did lot and I did count him out of positives. Wall positive. Oh, wall, yeah, he's steady. Wall again. Good. I think he, again, he made

some saves down the stretch that it could have easily been a regulation lost. He was he was good I don't I don't get a feeling like right now

I think the Leafs have so many issues I'm not comfortable that Joseph Wall can save them right now either well he's saved in the last three starts

they got four points pretty good can I ask you that's that's good for them is it going to be enough though moving forward here can he is he capable of stringing

something that gets them back in the race here. I mean, if you look at his track record with Leifes, it's pretty good. I mean, I don't know if he can do it by playing every game. I think he's staring at a different team in front of him than he remembers last year. Yeah, they're hurt, yeah.

But is he? They're not just hurt. They were, even when they weren't hurt, they weren't anything close to what they were before. No, but I do think we should need to draw a distinction. Like, they, they stunk the first 5, 10 games. So we kind of anticipated they would, right? Like we, they're okay.

Four new players. We didn't anticipate that blue line looking like that. I think it went from 10 games of them trying to figure out what they are and looking ugly right into injury town. Like I'm still more bullish on what it can look like. Can I ask though? Yeah. Are they looking, like were they really great defensively last year or they just get all world goal tent? And we've seen, oh, they've looked better defensively in these last three games.

Maybe they're just getting way more saves than they got for the rest of the season. Like, you know, we talked about how they kept high danger chances down last year. Yes, but they had all world goaltending all season long last year, which we made them say that they were a good defensive team. And this year they've had, I don't know what the opposite of all world goaltending is, but it's been not world goaltending. And they've been struggling. Regional.

So they look like the last three games, it's three, two, three, right? And it's been five, five, five every night. So goalie helps. Golly helps. He's definitely helping. Yeah. I just, we need to see them still better and stronger up front for Joseph Wall now to come in and,

and I believe, really make a difference. That's, yeah, that's it. Absolutely. We want to talk about overtime at all. We want to talk about what everybody talked about last night, Max Domi. And for the record, still hate three on three in general. Yeah.

And this is now two games in a row. that we've seen the leaf crowd boo a team that holds on to the puck for a very long period of time. I'll add on to that. The Leafs curled one back.

I think it was Machelli and there was a quiet booing. There was a murmur in the crowd of people going, this is a topic for another day maybe, but... We do it every day, so we can do it again here. We really need the league to re-look at this. Once you cross down

This is my biggest beef Is there's going to be teams Maybe including the Toronto Maple Leafs Multiple teams That will lose Tens of millions of dollars In the playoffs Because of overtime

And to me that's not a good enough reason To separate a team In the playoffs or out of the playoffs You know it's been a part of the game for so long It's not like you went into the season Building your team and said We got to play over three on three No one told us about this.

Just like any other aspect of the game, you've got to be prepared for it. Are we seeing teams not just play for overtime? Are they just cruising in? I think probably, but that has typically, there are stats that in a tie game between teams from two different conferences,

shot attempts go down in the last two minutes pretty significantly as both of them are content to just get to OTIP? Not that big a difference. No, it's not. I mean, if it was 3-2-1, like we've always wanted, three for regulation,

two overtime one shootout or however you want to do it and the loser gets nothing there'd be a bit more urgency and there's not there's zero urgency watching last night once again

I'm thinking like this is like watching a car wreck on the highway I would love to watch assuming no one was hurt I would much prefer to watch a car wreck than that

that was like it's hard to watch paint dry it's hard to watch it's just like it's I don't even know what we're watching It's like a shinny game.

It's like watching my house league or I'm like skate. It's watching it is like watching three house league players versus and then just go wherever you want. Do whatever you want. Yeah. But, you know, and on the bench as a coach just yelling skate. So, so but, you know, and I'm not taking Max Domi off the hook here. Do not make that pass. Ultimately, the puck is on your stick.

and you have to make a decision to not make... Soss it through two guys in O.T. When you have nobody behind you? It's a full possession game and you don't risk giving it up. Okay. You guys go, tell me what you think of the overtime. Tell me what you saw. The domi play, you guys know from our group chat.

I wasn't real thrilled. I haven't been real thrilled with his play lately. He's the team worst minus 11. He's been on the right side of goals four and against in two games out of 20 this year. night in overtime everyone hangs on to the puck that's the game you can't give up possession you may never get it back and he tried to sauce it through two guys as the last guy back so yeah i didn't like it um and outside of that no t adam fantilly's tough to handle on a direct rush but

fantilly's really good and he owns the leaves he's now got i think he's got nine goals and or eight goals and five in his last two yeah he's just lights him up yeah what did you see off that overtime. I saw a force play of a guy that's pressing probably wanting to, you know, turn his season around because it hasn't gone well. And he's trying to force it in there and he makes a brutal play and it ends up in the back. Again, I'm not, I'm not taking Max off the hook for making a poor decision. But I'm also, you know, you got to look at the big picture here. Okay. I'm watching Jake McCabe, who is their best shutdown guy on the team. He's out there, and it's Max is out there.

And if I'm not mistaken, it was Robertson. Yes. It was Robertson, yes. Jake, where are you going, buddy? You're on the blue line. You're with two guys that I would hope you would sit there and go, they're a little risky. I'm hanging back here.

But Jake gets off his blue line and goes and skates into double coverage. stops moving his skates and has a stick on the ice as if he wants the puck from Max. And again, I'm not taking Max off the hook here. You made a poor decision. But where does Jake McCabe think he's going to get a pass now for Max in double coverage? Buddy, your name is McCabe, not McCar.

Where are you going? You know, I find it's three on three out there to your point. You know, like this is kind of everyone's going, everywhere. It's not as positional, and he's trying to score a goal. He's going to the net as I see it. I don't know. I can understand your logic of you're with two fairly risky guys. You got to be the stay-at-home guy. No, that's the wild, wild west of this thing. But this to me, this is the, this is the epitome of taking someone off the hook where you go. No, I'm not. I'm not. It's deflecting from not this guy, it's a discipline. It's just

where like I get it's wide open and you but somebody either Jake or somebody on the coaching staff says listen look at who you're out there with right okay you just can't just can't pick and choose when you want to just be a hero at any particular time that's that's kneelander yeah buddy going down there don't you yeah yeah yeah for me it's like when you're doing analysis of this sort of stuff it's like what's a pattern what's a pattern that actually worth you know what's a mistake what you hey that was a bad play or they got a bad bounce what's the thing that's happening with consistency and that's what you want to identify and say okay that's something that happens way too often we need to clean that up to me we're not sitting here going boy

macape again he's you know he's in there no no no but it just takes one time to blow a point sure and that's fine on that play you're critical of them there I can see what you're talking about with those two guys in the ice I can totally see hey I'm the guy who needs to protect these two they're going to take some chances that's the way it is I'm fine with that but like, you know, I mentioned the Domi thing because we have a pattern on that one. And that's why it's something worth bringing up. All right, let's go to head coach Craig Bruby on Max Domi's game last night, clip nine. Sort of inconsistency in and out, does some good things, you know.

I'm trying to think of the game that I liked, you know, a couple games ago where, you know, I met with him. We talked and I thought I got a good game out of them, competitive game. Then, you know, he needs to, he needs to, he needs to, he needs to. They competitive, in my opinion, every shift. And we need, yeah, we need them to be better. He took responsibility for the overtime. Yeah, he just, you know, he forced the puck there.

I didn't need to. You know, three on three, you know, it's not a, you know, a real opportunity the other way. We want to hang on to pucks and keep possession, and he forced it. Yeah, no, nothing that had unless you got something. No, just other than, like, Max isn't the only one that has an identity crisis right now.

And Max, what are you? Are you a score? Are you a checker? Are you a piss people off player? Like, he's just... He's not doing any of those things. He's in no man's land. He's not doing any of those things.

None of them. He's not doing any of them. But guess what? I can look at four or five guys right now and ask the same question. And we've talked about them every day. I'm watching Dakota, Joshua. And like, can we not, maybe,

be healthy scratch this guy one night. Yeah, no kidding. Really? Yeah. It's just an automatic. This guy gets his third line position every game. And it's like you're 20 games in now. The forward group is down five guys and they haven't had a sense that you need to be moved

up a lick. If anything, moved down and getting less minutes. I don't know what he played last night, nine minutes or something. I haven't checked. I can do that now. But like, I don't know. It's talking about. of vanilla. He is the definition of what

the coach is talking about when he says, just pretty vanilla for me so far. Run into someone, shoot one in, get mad at someone. I'm watching have a purpose. I'm watching Nick Paul last night. He's, he needs to be a Nick Paul. Well, he's not. Yeah, I love that.

That'd be awesome. I mean, Paul just way better. But you're right, that is the same slot in the lineup, same cost, same. Actually, I think Joshua was making more than Nick Paul. Nick Paul first game back last night throws a leg out takes it to the middle ties the game up with two and a half minutes left guy big strong guy yeah right six three not super fast just but there's there's no presence there so until these guys start figuring it out on where there's their true strengths lie and

contributing to the hockey club we're going to kind of see this thing of what Craig brewby's talking about kind of in and out and inconsistencies and Like, there's a confidence issue right now for Max, but he's not the only one. No, and Max, we know that in bursts can do stuff that other people can't do. He can make plays other people can't make and all that. Yeah, it's been tough go this year for him. Yeah. Like, it's been a pretty rough start to the year.

I mean, he doesn't play a ton and he's, was he minus 12? Like, it's, it's entering the net a lot with him on the ice right now. I'll tell you another thing that stood out for me. like Mermis is better than a few guys right now on that depth chart on the blue line

Mermis is fine No no no For me he's He's better than Benoit right now I think so I mean I don't think he's better than Benoit But he is right now Yes

As I said Right now Yeah yeah I don't know what's going on With some of these guys To me Benoit looks like a guy who's gotten comfortable

that he's an everyday guy and he's probably better uncomfortable. You know, when he's in and out of the lineup, he looks like a guy who's enjoying his flat white on the way to the rink and forgetting that he needs to do every conceivable thing to be a contributor at the NHL level. Great point.

You know? Because, like, when he was at his best, there was this reckless abandon about him where he's physical and he's flying up, and he just doesn't seem like that has been there at all. And he's also way up. the rink a lot for me like if you're as you stay at home d i thought he was a physical stay at home d isn't that the idea but he's he wants to be a little bit more than that the thing that stood

out for me last night too was again when i look at columbus couldn't really string two or three passes together but the one thing that they had that is clear that the leafs don't have is a Wurwinsky. Like, I don't even know how how good he was last night. But he can still... I mean, 29 teams don't have friends. He can still, but

it's clear that the Leafs don't have, they don't have and they haven't had for a very long time a guy like that. Morgan, of course, as close as he was when you can sit there, if you want to pick whatever year in the last

10 where Morgan was at his best. That's the closest that the Leafs could have to a guy kind of controlling the play. But this guy out there for 29 minutes when he was out there and sets up the winning goal. And it's like it's it's hard for the Leafs to have any success at all when they don't have a one or two like that. Oh man. And you look around the NHL right now and these guys, you know, I've talking about Daryl Sutter a lot lately. But he talked about having Drew Doughty and his prime who wanted to be on the rink. and he says it solves all of your D problems when you have a guy who can play 30 minutes and all of a sudden you only have to have like four other good D and they're playing

lower or easier matchups it makes everyone better and I think if you look through the NHL standings now more and more teams have Jake Sanderson or Victor Headman or you know Matthew Schaefer now for the Islanders Hudson and Montreal Quinn Hughes McCar you know there's half the teams in the league have a guy who controls the play and plays a ton and that's missing right now from the least in the worst way yeah and it's not a solvable problem no well it is you stink well and you get the first overall pick and you take bear off i mean that's you don't trade for these guys no that's what i mean like you can't solve it this year you suck you you suck for a while and you get lucky at the top of the draft and get a generational player who on

who plays defense that's so you get one we did you get a trade for one of these guys you're going to signed one of these guys. They don't get to free agency. They don't get anywhere. You just got to get lucky. That's it. And then in the meantime, though, that's not happening. No. I was going to say, these guys never changed teams. And meanwhile, Quinn Hughes is packing his back.

I mean, I think, isn't he, just a picture of him wearing a lease two, Quinton time? Quinn Hughes? Yeah, I think he went to Winter Classic and he wore a least hat. So maybe he'll sign him Toronto. He'll sign a devil's. You want to wait two years? If it's him, sure.

He's going to be, he's the devil You think? Oh, come on. Yeah, I never know. I mean, where does that leave the Leafs with Morgan Riley? He's got a no move. Like, honestly, I could sit here and say, out of any Toronto Maple Leaf right now,

the one guy that probably could use a fresh start, a change, something to rejuvenate him, is him. The problem, Kip, is anytime you're trading guys out for the reasons you're saying, I agree with you, 100%. But anytime you're trading guys out and not saying how do we get that guy in, you're getting worse.

Because we're talking about getting rid of someone and how you get better. There's other teams that you just find that are looking for a jolt and have similar issues where a player or two are getting stale here. You match up the money and you have all parties sign off on it.

It's tough. So you're just, you're, what you're proposing is another team's project slash problem for your problem to kind of hope that your change of scenery works. It happens many times. Can I give you two names that is maybe the only way to plug this sort of solve this problem? And it's guys that they're not getting, but Carolina got Shane Gostis Bear, remember who's a top offensive defenseman for Arizona Coyotes and kind of got lost in the show. Was he Philly? Yeah. And he is unbelievable for Carolina this year.

He's like one of their top D. He's lighting it up. Other guy, Tony DiAngelo goes to Long Island. You know, he's in the KHL, no one wants him, attitude, this, that, the other thing. He's an offensive force, you know, like he makes plays. He's up the ring. He can, are there those type of guys where. Man, Gossus Bears already played 700 games in his career.

I know. I'm thinking of offense is what I'm thinking. wallman too and I know he's not having a great year but you know once upon a time they plucked him there was issues in Detroit he came in and played well yeah and okay short term okay and maybe some of the warts are starting to surface again but it it can rejuvenate a guy Eric Carlson Morgan Riley for Eric Carlson oh my god well whoa all you do is you turn the dial up on the offense the D's not good anyway and if you're Pittsburgh, you get a younger guy

who can eat minutes at a reasonable number. See, I like it. Oh, I do like it, but, you know, Pittsburgh's going to have to eat. Some of the money. Some of the money off of Carlson. But that's, that's, now you're talking. Now you're, I believe.

You're in a space. But, like, he's playing his best hockey since Dubis got him. you're not 35 You're not pulling that one over on Sydney Crosby But I like how you think Okay

Okay Yeah Riley's 31 Sid's not signing off on that You don't think so No Not while they're winning Well listen Morgan's Morgan's struggling

And Carlson's playing His best hockey as a Pittsburgh penguin Yeah How are you gonna pull this off? I texted you earlier in the year I think about Carlson I said that I've watched a lot of penguins this year

Because you know I watched Sid And I'm like you know He's looked really good he's just got this year and next yeah you quietly said nick robertson but you're going to have to sweeten that more than nick robertson see riley and robertson

you're going to have to sweet and a pick no picks no picks they don't have any picks man i guess robertson has been perfect the last couple games it's like whatever honestly the asset value is high enough to turn it into eric carlson you'd like all right maybe if they stop playing his his value will go down and they keep playing macman robertson and domi together his value will continue to head in the wrong direction.

That line's getting caved in. Not a good line. You want to go to break or you want to... Anything else you want to talk about? Any other than more clips? We should definitely break so we can get to the... Because I love the calls. Before we go to break?

Who wants to win a bunch of cash while doing the best thing this holiday season? Sportsnet 590 the fan is all in on supporting the 50-50 fortune for sick kids. It's a 50-50. So the more money we raise, the more kids we can help,

and the more holiday cash you can win. The current take-home prize is a guaranteed $100,000, sell-us. So buy your tickets at 50-50 fortune.ca or text the word money to $5.99, and we'll send the link right to your phone. 18 plus, please play responsibly. Standard message and data rates apply. Lottery license, R-A-F-1518-410 there, fellas. All right, nice work. Who can't use a guaranteed $100,000?

All right, Tammy, good job, pal. When we return to the Real Kipper and Bourne show, we go Leafline. Yes. Chris is waiting in Hamilton, Ken in Winnipeg, Tom from Cambridge. Wow. Hopefully we play those ones. Any overseas, Sammy? Not really today, no.

Make one up. All right, well, long distance, right? Yeah. All right, we're back with more, Real Kippenborn, after these words. Hey, it's Blake Murphy. It on Map Honor. Join us weekday mornings at 11 as we break down all things Toronto Raptors. It's the Raptor show on SportsNet 590 The Fan

And wherever you get your podcasts Welcome back to the program Nick Caprio's Justin Boren, Samuel McKee It's the Leaf Hour edition of our program You want to touch on injuries at all, Sammy? I mean, we have playing. We have a Matthews in? I would say not.

Okay. I thought I had clips here somewhere. You do have clips there somewhere. Yeah, I do. How about, yeah, on. all the injury updates. It's a long clip. Clip seven, please. Obviously, Austin and Matthew out there, what's the latest on their status? Same as it was yesterday. No change. They're out there practicing, which is good, but

availability tomorrow is doubtful. Solars heating? Nope. What's the latest on Wa? I think we saw now, obviously, yesterday. Where's Nicholas at? Probably. Are you still a ways away? I would say. I got no timeline for him. I really, you know. What about Carlo?

Yep, he's still not on the ice, so I'm hoping he will be out Monday on the ice. That's what I'm hoping for. Some more. Tenev. Tenev? What about him?

No, he's long term. You know, I have a very hard take. I've developed a very hard opinion. That's not the coach's job. That conversation is not the coaches. Whose job is that? Talk to a medical guy on the team. Every day.

Oh, they're going to serve up a medical guy. Sure. Bring the teams. Never been done before. Bring out the teams. Hi, everybody. Doctor, how about just their strength and conditioning coach, some medical guy. What dream world do you live in that a doctor is going to come out and talk?

Any more than someone on the staff? Because they have the information. He's just. nervous, like every other coach, to leak anything out. Now, did we hear maybe out of him for... Carlo, maybe Monday. No, no, no. But yesterday there was a maybe, I think, for Stolars.

Oh, yeah, maybe. Well, then maybe it's... We're down to maybe's and hopefuls. Maybe it's the GM's job. Maybe it's someone... It's not the head coach's job. The head coach has no idea about medicine. Doctor.

Doctor. He's a... What does he know? No more than you, and I'm not even joking. No, I know he didn't, no, no. It's not happening. Here.

Someone else. Here, I got to, I got to take for you, too, guys. Chief Medical liaison. They got to get rid of the four minutes for high stick at all. This shouldn't exist. Because last night, I like, I like, I like what you're doing. Last night, clearly caught him. Like, it took, but it's, you can have blood and you can get cut, and it's still a two-minute minor.

Yeah, you have to be gushing blood immediately. No, it has to be, uh, discretionary. It has to be a significant. significant injury or stupid just two minutes damage it is funny that sometimes you can like jam a finger if your nose and get blood and be like i'm bleeding and they're like but that's not how it works it's not supposed to but that's how rest call it either two minutes for every high stick or four minutes for every high stick

like if it's a high stick it's a four minute penalty regardless because of the intent to injure just because you have a gentle moisturized skin and you bleed doesn't mean it should be more the code of joshua got hit and then it took him a little bit like he had a red mark Oh, stop it. So that's on four minutes? A red mark. No, but it started. It bled eventually.

Stop it, Sammy. It bled eventually. Like, they came over to the bench. Sammy. In the playoffs, either, you know, you're decapitated or it's a two-minute minor. What I'm saying.

It should just be two minutes, period. Yeah. No, like discretionary thing. Maybe a five if it's intentional. Sure. But, okay. I'm fine with that, but it's not.

And whatever that kid did the OHL is. It's not a major issue. To me, it's not a, 48 game suspension. Is that what he got 48 games? Do you see the O-H-O? I did. It kicked out for the rest of the season and playoffs.

I mean, that was kind of very, we've had those historically. Yeah, but you don't see them much anymore. Our good buddy Brad May, do you remember his in Vancouver? Yeah. That was 20. Yeah.

Our good buddy Bill Garan on Brett Draney and preseason. Kong. Yeah, you get away with it when it's against your own team. Leap line? Leave line. All right. Let's start. I can't remember any of these.

Let's start from, with Chris and Hamilton. Let's just start with Chris and Hamilton. Obviously, the chances of the Leafs making the playoffs here are 100%. Let's not joke around, guys. Yes. But quick question. Where is Pizzetta?

Great question. Where are the new boys? Where's Pizzetta? Does he play? He never understood that signing. I did. Marley's trying to help the Marley's win? Listen, he plays.

He's played 200 NHL games and he's 27 years old. Like they didn't sign a guy who's some American League player. He's played seven games this year for the Marley's. How many games of the Marley's played so far this year? Presumably. 1520.

So he's been banged up? No, I think it's the veteran rule in the American Hockey. You can only dress X per game and I think the Marleys have like eight or nine veterans. I think you can only dress six and so they must just not be choosing him. Wow, thank God that rule wasn't in

when I was in the American Hockey. But, I mean, isn't that, didn't he give him a two-year deal? Two-year one-way deal. At $1.5 million total, here's your money. Weird one. Yeah. Like, everyone's hurt. So what's the point of the veteran rule?

Like, why isn't it like, because it's a developmental league? Oh, my God. How about competition league instead of just being, uh, hey, I'm young. I'm getting my spot no matter what. I don't know if people know this, but the ECHL developmental league is only 10 forwards.

You dress 10 forwards. So everyone gets lots of ice time. You don't want to, they don't want guys. Is that true? Yeah. You play so much. That's purely true. You got a fight.

Someone gets kicked out. Someone gets hurt. You're down to like eight, seven forwards every game. Literally do eights forward to every game. It's like we're two away from the ECHL. Oh my God. They've got so many of those guys. Sammy Blaze.

Well, Sammy Blaze over Michael Posetta thing is like, is a very strange, like I understand it costs the least nothing outside of actual money. But it's just like, if you're posetta, he's like, why did you, why did you sign me if you're going to give me a look how bad was his camp uh must be bad uh let's go to ken in winnipeg uh yesterday you guys talked about uh the possibility of trading austin matthews this is a huge concern to me as who in the hell do you think the

The NHL has to offer to replace such a talent. And I know he's got some injuries going on right now, but really, Badaard? Thanks, guys. Yeah, it's a, it's, it's, it's a tricky one. Can you're right. It's a tricky one, but.

No, it's a losing endeavor. You are going down the path of, Quinn Hughes and Connor McDavid with Austin as early as this summer where you got that two year window to resign them and where's the team and where's Austin if there is a chance it doesn't go well this year or well with him

you know everybody's going to be sitting there going where is the future with Austin I don't know who's left Willie and Morgan and Johnny T. like where are you if they happen to miss the playoffs

where are you with this group moving forward? It's the only case for trading Austin Matthews. The only case is that if you're going to lose them for nothing, you'd rather have something. Which is a possibility. Let's go to Jeremy in Dallas. Until his injury,

there's nothing wrong with Austin Matthews. Yes, you heard me. right. Everyone's looking at him physically, all that stuff. That's not why. The reason, and I, and I don't think his injury was as bad as everyone thinks it was last year, is they're trying to turn him into Alex Barkoff. All right, Alex Barkov could be a premier offensive player in the NHL, but Florida buries him against the league competition. Look at his last three years. They've all been very 20 goals. He even missed his 10 to 15 games a year. They even got that part for Matthews now. So Matthews is fine. They just need to deploy this roster the way it's built.

The moment Nick Waugh started playing 15, 16 minutes a night, Matthews scored some very familiar goals that he used to. But if you're going to bury him against elite competitions and he's getting buried more than Barcov does, more than McDavid, more than McKinnon, if you're going to do that to Austin Matthews, this is the person you get, which is basically another version of Barkoff. Barcov, who you guys have in your top 10, but he can score 20 goals and just be over a point per game and everybody loves him. Matthews can't do that.

He's going to be just like Barkoff, but a better goal score. That's it. So start deploying this roster properly when everyone gets healthy and give this guy a little more time in the offensive zone and not always, always against every single elite competition out there. mere you I don't think Austin

is physically as engaged as Barcov is constantly up and down 200 feet of ice so I don't get that comparison but he's a much better goal score for sure I mean they're both

you know Selky nominees together I believe the one year But to me, it's not true. He's not the same player. You look at his takeaways. They've gone from four per 60 to one per 60 hits for four per game to one per game. Even if you're starting in the D zone, you need to be more engaged than that. He's visibly just not the same player as he was.

So it's not just that. And on the other hand, the goal isn't to make the best Matthews. It's to make the best team. And so if you can turn him into Barkov, oh, standing O. Like that gives you the best chance to win, not a guy. who shoots it in a lot. So I'm fine with trying to make him be the best version of a 200-foot hockey player

they can't. I disagree that if all of Matthews was scoring 20 goals a year, we'd all be in here killing him. What do you mean? Like if you turn him into Barkov and scoring 20 goals a year, we'd be talking about how he doesn't score anymore. Yeah.

It depends on the team. J.B. said it. It's not about Matthews. It's about like if he turned it. But they were good last year and he wasn't scoring and we all talked about how he was hurt and how he wasn't doing anything, but they were elite defensively.

Like, we literally did it last year. Yeah. So, I don't know. No, it's just, it's all, it's just not true that he's. Sorry, Jeremy. Yeah, that he's like the same player, but paying more attention to defense.

I think statistically and all that, he's not. So I couldn't quite make out what this person's name was, and it sounded like it was Gap. So we're going to go with Gap from Guelph. What would you need to see this season to put our 2020? 28 first round pick and play

at the deadline. I'm fine if they move all their first rounders as long as it's not the 2034 pick because that's my drop here. Boies go. P.S. love the Jay's talk, Sammy. I love that kid. That was so

great. Really great. That was so great. To answer this question, I'd have to see a whole hell of a lot to put it up the table. Yeah. I don't think it's that valuable right now. This is where we fundamentally disagree. The 2028. What rebuilding team wouldn't want that pick?

So this is what you're just so wrong. It's 2025 right now. So the least are going to stink? What rebuilding team is like, I want to pick three years from now that's going to take three years to be ready? San Jose. No. That's the Chicago. Even rebuilding teams want to tear down now, get picks and start going the other way.

You've got to sell now, Sammy, to your. I get it. But that could be the first overall pick. So, is that a valuable? Alex from Dartmouth. I just want to say about Jake Quillan, Jacob Quillan, Q, I taught him in high school. He went to private school here. He was an excellent student, a really smart kid.

He thought of science 10 and biology 11. He always got mid to high 90s. Wow. Worked really hard. Just a good kid. And I'm glad to see that he's getting shot. But he got some. Yeah, this is great too.

These calls are so good. Jay Quillan. So I lived in Dartmouth in Scotia. for two years. Key and Peele. And I would say that there's a very big leaf fan base there, very proud. So I can tell you there's a ton of Q fans. I got to tell you, I'm coming around on my boy Q here.

Yeah. I think I'm, well, he just, he's physical and big in skates. He tries really hard. He's, he's got a nice pass. I'll take him over David Camp. Yeah. But make that decision in September. Convince me in September.

Did he get a look in September? I don't know. They had so many forwards in September. It didn't seem like. Let's go. We have one more Nova Scotia. I think we have time for that. You guys, I don't know how good this is, but I just say, first off, nice job on the money raised and the turning.

Thanks, but. I've been a least fan for 56 years, and I've seen it all. The good, the bad, and the ugly. The new player I had a lot of hoping was Joshua. I really liked this game a couple years ago. I think when this team gets. healthy they will be a lot better just need to hang around and not get too far behind in the standings what we need is a wendell clark with heart type of player calm down leash nation we will be fine

i will leave you with this sorry kepper but i will never forget the gretzky high stick oh and loving cowen's game monte great call my friend and uh that guy's Definitely from Nova Scotia. Yeah. Unfortunately, you might have to wait another 56 years for a Wendell Clark. They just don't make them anymore as much as they used to. I think you put nyes in a cage and poke them with a stick between games and get them, get them there. Fabulous calls today, guys.

Really, really good. All right, just like that, early five hour edition over. Up next as we go national, we welcome in on a Friday, Doug McLean. Our thanks to many of you callers. including Monty from Nova Scotia. Great job. All right, don't go away. Get something to drink

and then join us right back here in a few minutes. The Real Kipper and Born Show.