Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Where Matthews Fits Best

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee check in with the latest on Auston Matthews' injury and discuss where in the lineup he'll go when he does return. They look at the lines from practice with Matthews and chat about who deserves a top-six look on his line more - Pontus Holmberg or Nick Robertson. Then, they get into the goalie tandem and why the team might secretly want Jo Woll to win the starting job. Later, Gord Stellick (33:40) weighs in on why the team plays better without Matthews, expectations for the power play with his return and Mitch Marner and John Tavares' contract questions.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

all right let's get her going here the kiprios justin bourne sammy mckee derrick brandeo and jake the snake schultz with you for the next two hours including our leaf edition hour it's live on sportsnet 590 the fan sportsnet 360 sportsnet plus As we await another day until we get to a Leaf game, where Justin just mere minutes ago asked me, what are we going to talk about? And I'm like, here's something. I don't know. Here's something for you.

We were just a show before us. I heard the dulcet tones of Jeff Blair, where their show has been off the air for how long? I'm not sure how long their show's been off the air for. But, you know, he's doing the fight and the good fight. He's coming on with our wonderful hosts here to talk about the Blue Jays in November. And, you know, the second, the July 3rd show,

you guys lose your phones for six months. You know, you guys, someone texts you, it's like, no, I'm sorry, Jeff. Six six takes us to christmas hey whatever how four months sorry however much so god love jeff blair talking about juan soto coming to the jays so there you go and the chase is like the ultimate like give teams leverage team now like is that all they are so this is real this is a hot discussion last night in the parking lot after hockey would you rather be in the conversation and have your names there and seemingly be a finalist and you know have your heart broken or never ever be there like it's just it's nice to have their name you know in the

conversation maybe they're being used as leverage maybe there's genuine interest him Juan Soto and and Vladdy close buddies like I think it's worse to be a final like i just you know i'd rather not even think that they have a chance quite honestly but it's it's a debate for me is it better to love and lose and never lose it all no i screwed that up i don't think that's the same but to to your point, I think you'd rather experience the love. Love, Sam. Love is what I'm trying to say. I got you, buddy.

I got you. Love. As long as he's seriously interested. Yeah. You got to throw your name in there. You just, it's just, it's life in general. You're going after a job. You want to crack the AAA team.

Like life. I got news for you. Oh, here we go. It's a very Brad May ask here. What do you got? It isn't fair. Oh, yeah. Okay.

There's one I'm not screwing up. Life isn't fair. Yeah. Yeah. And for every time you get knocked down or told no, brush it off and get right back up yeah so i mean the man in the arena speech is it teddy roosevelt i'm not i'm a hockey guy buddy uh they you know they spend a lot of money on the rogers center to make it really nice i don't think they want to have a 90 loss team in there many more years so juan soto would help with that anyways anyways what do you think

it'll take not 700 million700 million like the last guy. I think it'll be around there. I think it ends up $6,500. Quit stalling. No. I think it ends up $6,500, $7,700. Otani, you can sell worldwide. That's exactly right.

They've already made their money on Otani. You cannot reach the dollars with Soto as you can Otani. And it's the story on $700 million. You know what helps, though, is winning. And he brings wins. He's an incredible player. He's going to get $700 million, boys. He is, eh?

For sure. Wow. He's got the Yankees, he's got the Mets, he's got the Red Sox, and he's got our beloved Rodgers all bidding for his services. He's going to be an extremely rich man. I would be in bubble wrap in my bedroom.

I would never think. We're wondering if half a million's too much for Mitch Marner. We almost derailed our show over someone's half a million. That's a great point. League's got to catch up. That needs to go up. Yes, it does. God.

It really does. You think the NHL players, like, they watch other top players in other leagues, and they're just, like, embarrassed? I do players in other leagues, and they're just, like, embarrassed? I do think that, yes, very much. The last few years, I think it's been a really bad look for the league. Last few years? Try 20. Yeah.

But, I mean, other leagues didn't do what they've done. Like, the NBA is, what, five years into insane money? In the early 2000s, guys were making $9 and $10 million. In the NHL. Yes. Yeah. No, the NHL should be embarrassed about that. That's still considered a top salary.

Yeah, Yager made $10 million in like 99. What was Bobby Hulik's contract that he signed with the Rangers? It was crazy big. Franchises have gone up like tenfold, and player salary haven't moved. And I think owners and bet men are aware of that and celebrating that victory. Yeah, Connor McDavid makes less than Kelly Olenek does this year. Is that true? I'm sorry, who's that?

Kelly Olenek. Oh, come on. He's a good Canadian game boy. Yeah, he's Ron a Raptor. Plays the Raptors. Sorry. That's a household name to everybody else except me. Most people, if you went out there and said who Kelly Olenek is, they'd know who they are.

But, like, he is a bench guy on a 12 and 16 Raptors or 2 and 16 raptors team whatever the record is he make 12 he makes 12.8 and he makes 13.4 next year anyways there you go all right austin matthews full participant in practice today and the feeling is jb he will or won't play tomorrow night well everyone but me seems to think he's gonna play tomorrow right he's you said he wants to play uh the team says he wants to play i don't think he's gonna ultimately he's cleared to play so he'll make the decision oh is that right he's cleared how can he not be cleared? I don't know. It seems like a good assumption. Would you like to hear? Listen to Austin Matthews talk about his status

and you will make the decision off his voice whether you think he's going to play or not. Austin Matthews, clip please. Yeah, I don't know. We'll see. Get with the training staff, kind of chat some more. You know, it's I think the individual skates are much different than a team practice.

So this being kind of like the first actual team practice I skated in, I mean, I felt really good. But I might need maybe one or two to really get my legs and lungs back under me. But we'll just kind of see how I respond today and take it and see what happens tomorrow. You know what I got out of that? The A-plan. I run the show.

Only you would get that. You are all on a need-to-know basis, including coaches, general managers, anybody upstairs. You got a guy who's got a bad back who's not sure how it's going to hold up after a skate.

Yeah, I don't think... That's why he went to Germany. Not everything is Illuminati. That's why he went to Germany. Not everything is Illuminati. That's why he went to Germany. Yeah, to try to fix the ailing back, right? Try anybody in my era telling the team, I'm going to Germany and you're not coming back. Yeah.

Right? Yeah, we've learned a lot. It's a different world out there today. For sure. You want to go to Germany, you want to go to germany you want to go anywhere you want in the world it's not even a question about asking for permission you just you know what changed a lot of the boss you know what changed a lot of this is eichel the way the eichel situation played out uh where buffalo fought him tooth and nail disagreed

we're the boss he eventually pushed his way out of town, went to Vegas, wins the Stanley Cup. He's second in the league in scoring with 34 points. A lot of people in Buffalo didn't like it, right? And then there's that old school mentality that just do what you're told. That was my era. Yeah, for sure. Do what you're told.

Yeah, and mine too. This is new and now austin's uh i'm i'm going to germany yeah and i'm gonna get better i'm gonna get whatever treatment i want and you know do you disagree that he should have done that um it's it's such an individual thing like i don't have any basis to say yes or no. At times, I do believe that it's been skewed towards management when it comes to doctors making maybe 50-50 calls because it's like, okay, who's paying me or who's providing me tickets to the game?

Who's giving me free parking? Why am I here? I'm not here. I'm here because they hired me tickets to the game, who's giving me free parking. Why am I here? I'm not here. I'm here because they hired me, not the players. So at times, I think it's over the years, but I think that pendulum is completely swung now. Yeah, I think the power, and actually this is one of the positive changes,

I think, in the NHL over the years, is like it's swung really far in the favor of the players making i think in the nhl over the years is like it swung really far in the favor of the players making decisions about their own body and when they say they're ready and i think there's a greater acceptance of a guy saying i just don't feel right which certainly i think maybe some players from your era can look at those guys and say you know soft you know you put yourself on the line for your team or whatever, but. I don't know how much acceptance there truly is because I'm sure they can mutter under their breath still with the best of them, but they really have no choice.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. You mentioned that with hockey. I think a lot of like the public relations of the way people would talk about their peers in the hockey world are much better than what they would actually probably talk about. Yeah, for sure. There's some conversations that are had behind closed doors

about this kind of thing that I'm sure are a lot less, you know, PC than what you would think. But here's what I'll say about Matthews. He, it was the game against Minnesota, right? And then that he was not feeling right. He played a bunch of 21 in that game. Then he missed the two missed all these games. But I think they looked at this schedule.

They looked at it's a pretty soft part of the schedule. They realized what they had to do. Not that many games. And they sent him over there, and by all accounts, he got whatever the hell done to him over there, and he's feeling better. I actually think they handled it well. And I actually think, you know, you look at his last four years.

They were honest to us about it. Not that part part of it i hated that from start to finish but from their perspective they probably did a pretty good job in their minds and i think there's guys who you roll your eyes about you probably did i hate it but they probably did a great job but he can play tomorrow night or saturday take two shifts and disappear and you're ripping on him the next day. Of course. That's what I'm here for. We don't know how it ultimately is going to leave. You could be sitting there the next day saying

the German doctor screwed him up. We don't know. It's one day at a time play it out i think you'll be fine you know they're seven and one without them they're doing great if you have time at this point of the schedule uh one game then you get to sit out till miss one get to sit out till saturday you know he's last few years he played 81 games last year he's not a guy who doesn't want to play here's what i you know how you go with weather. Here's for sure what's going to happen, okay, if he comes back tomorrow.

They are going to play tomorrow. They're going to lose. They're going to have a dog effort against the division rivals. So negative. Listen, this is just how things go in Leafland. I have a doctorate in Leafland. And they are going to lose to the Florida Panthers.

And it's going to be all Austin's fault. No, and everyone's going to be like, oh, you know, I read an article today that said Matthews actually, maybe it's actually right. Like, maybe they are, but like, what? This is the Sundin thing all over again. Where Sundin was banged up, he missed part of the playoffs, and they were great without him.

He comes back, they're not as good. Same thing happened in the playoffs last year where he misses for a mystery injury. They win those games, he comes back, they lose in seven like the writing is on the wall for this so i'm just preparing everybody for it because it's there yep no argument for me what we do know for sure is if matthews does play he will not play with mitch marner let's get craig barubube's thoughts on our first Kippers Clipper from Berube on Marner, Tavares, and McMahon staying together. Well, the line's been very good, right?

Both defensively and offensively. They're doing a real good job there. So I felt really reluctant to just just put mitch and maddie back together um we'll see but um i like the looks of what i had today with them i thought they they had a good practice and they look pretty good and pretty comfortable and i know that uh austin's played with uh willie before and Homer. What do you think? Just an easy decision. Yeah.

You know, the only argument I would make to that is that that Marner-Tavarez line has not set it on fire at five on five. They've been very good on the power play, overtime, you know, odd man situations and all that, but five on five, they've been good, but not. Over the years you're talking about? Sorry, Marner-Tavara's the last eight games.

Oh, okay. Yeah, there's still a five on five, even strength, drought going on per se. Yeah. But that's just, that's an overall team thing as well but yeah you mean it you'd like it to start with your your best best players but um outside of that uh just the looks that Tavares and Marner have had man have had you don't want to take that away no regardless of the the dryness on the five on five the one thing I don't get is Holmberg being the guy who gets the opportunity with Matthews and Willie.

Like, I know they're minus a lot of guys, but I just can't think of someone who's a more solid hockey player with less offensive ability to take advantage of this spot than Holmberg. So, you know, the lines there on your sheet. Who? I know I sound like there on your sheet. Who? Who? I know I sound like an owl here, but who? Robertson.

Robertson. Robertson. No chance. He's missing six guys. If you can't put him in the top six when you're missing six players, then just trade him for a third and be done with it. I got a guy coming back off a back injury, and do you want Robertson to go and drive some holes

or some lanes open, or do you want Holmberg? Of course I'm not asking him to drive holes and create lanes. But Holmberg will. He'll create more room than Robertson for Matthews coming back. I think Holmberg is one of the five worst offensive players in the NHL. I don't want offense from him. I want him to drive to the net. I want him to absorb bodies.

Yeah, but the guys you've had do that in the past have been Zach Hyman and Matthew Dyes has done it some, and Tyler Bertuzzi or Bunting. Those guys all have 50-point NHL seasons. I know Robertson ain't that. I know Robertson doesn't have that track record either. Just like someone with the ability to put away a play. You make two passes in a row.

I don't think that they're there yet in terms of being at that. There's no reason to feel desperate for that right now for me. Desperate? I just think with Robertson, iton it's like well then what are we doing he's not a third line winger so what we're doing is just making sure that matthews is as well insulated physically i think and holmberg is that bigger heavier body but like then this itself is the reason to trade robertson it's like you had the whole team hurt up front and still couldn't use them in an offensive spot

they're working on it what can i tell you they're working on it i mean he is supposed to be a goal scorer and berube said himself that that's part of his job is to score goals and they're like here play with doer and you know roman can lorenz whoever i gotta look at that second line for the florida panthers which would probably be matched up against austin matthews line with you know nick robertson on it with carter verhage sam bennett and math you could chuck like i don't necessarily love pontus holmberg no but i particularly don't love nick robertson going up against any of those three gentlemen nope so i think he's looking at the other side of things and being much like the winnipeg game where he scratched him and told him told everybody he's too little to play against him.

You probably would be feeling the same thing here. I didn't mind Holbrook the other night. I didn't mind him. The other night he was good. He was really good. He was all over the puck. He's all over the puck a lot, you know, with his oven mitts on. Listen, there's an argument after.

Chopping it to a square. When he toe-picked, there was like. I can't believe he didn't die. I thought he broke i'm telling you where's the spotter okay at the snack bar that's where he was i guess but i there there is no now no no ability right now to have any faith at all in those guys when when you saw the reaction of homberg he literally is like he was so dazed gasping he was he was dazed but he wasn't dazed enough to go if i stay here one second more this guy's gonna pull me out i'm gonna lose my spot on this line and i may never get it back that's what happened on that play couldn't agree more that was a guy who was like well i'm fine you know a whole career flashes

before your eyes and you're like i know exactly like a boxer who's just like do my do my leave career just end because i slipped and hit my head on the boards like If you don't pull that guy off, you don't pull anybody off. No kidding. He actually dove into a pool type of dive into the boards with his head. Not pretty. He's fine. All right, should we go to Craig Berube on the top? Oh, we did that already?

No, let's do it. Okay, let's do it. Yep. Clip five, please, Derek. Sorry, bud. Well, he hangs on the pucks. He's strong on pucks in the offensive zone. You know, he's responsible defensively,

but it's more about, you know, him in there hanging on the pucks, creating loose pucks for him on the forward check, getting to the net, things like that is what he, his job is on that line and he can do it. Yeah, pretty much what we said. Yeah. I looked at their lineup and it's like here are your other options you could put robertson there which we have said no to minton is your

center nylander or banken steve's doer lorenz do you think lorenz would be my guy do you think there's a chance if robertson gets hot he could hit your uh your over on him of 20 goals? Not on this team. But I do think that if you played him with a couple of good players on a team where he's playing a bunch. I'd like to see him get a chance somewhere else. Yes. What did he have last year? 14 and 54.

But there was a cluster of games where he had 11 goals and 15 games or whatever it was, a small amount of games, where he's like one of those guys where he kind of gets hot and goes on tears, but it ain't going to work. It's over. Okay. We spend a lot of time talking about him on this show.

Minutes spent, he'd be high. Way higher than he should be. Yeah, for sure. Okay. So, Robertson will not see a top-two line against Florida, but we'll get Ruby's thoughts on playing Florida and what the Leafs could be facing. Clip three.

Well, you got to be ready. That's a great team over there. Obviously, that's why they won. I mean, they know what they're doing, and they play a very direct, hard game. We're going to have to do a real good job against their forecheck and their pressure that they come with their

physical team. So it'll be a battle and we've got to make sure that we stand up to the battle and we initiate too and we play our game. Florida stinks right now, guys. How many in a row have they lost? The Florida Panthers lost 6-2 to the Devils. They how many in a row have they lost florida panthers lost six two to

the devils they lost four in a row four in a row is that where we're at how many games have they how many goals have they given up in the last four games sorry six three to the jets three one to the blackhawks seven four to the panthers four one to the capitals so over that time they lose two seven four to who uh avalanche 20 you said to the Panthers. My bad. I was confused. Yeah, so it's 6-9-16. They cannot defend right now, and they're not getting any goaltending from Bobrovsky. It's almost like, you know. Could he use some guy?

No, just like he's pre-Stanley Cup Bobrovsky now. Yeah. It's funny. By the way, the next few games for the Panthers are Maple Leafs, Hurricanes, Hurricanes. So that's a tough stretch. That's funny. By the way, the next few games for the Panthers are Maple Leafs, Hurricanes, Hurricanes. So that's a tough stretch. That is awesome. But they're still a dangerous team.

Don't get me wrong. Yeah. They've got world-class guys over there. But they are weaker, much weaker than the Stanley Cup team. What are your thoughts on what Marie said on our show? That if they start off slow, everyone's going to say it's Stanley Cup team. What are your thoughts on what Marie said on our show? That if they start off slow, everyone's going to say it's Stanley Cup hangover,

but if you look... No, no, they're not as good. And we watched Montour again help Seattle win last night. Like Montour. And that's a big hole. And then OEL, we've seen him make a major contribution to that Toronto Maple Leaf blue line,

and he's no longer there. That's significant, guys, for a back end. Their top pair is still excellent, obviously, Forsling and Ekblad. Still a good pairing, clearly, but underneath that, like it's, yeah, but, you know. Ekblad is better with like deeper guys he's when you get in a position where you ask him to do a little bit too much i think he's a perfect guy that gets himself into trouble and listen i know morgan riley's not lighting it up but

it's a better year for him because of the depth. And he's another guy that if you ask for too much, it's not helpful for his game. Ekblad is now carrying a lot of weight right now on that blue line, and I'm not sure he's the perfect type of guy that could handle it. Yeah. You know, Montour was also another guy that reminded me of Sam Bennett in that he will absolutely run a guy, his mouth be in his face identity guy slap shot bomb yeah well you know we're just like god this guy does everything for them and it just takes that little bit of

teeth out their third pair now is nate schmidt and uvis balinski's i don know. I don't have a comment on Olivas because I haven't seen him play hockey. So what you're saying here is that you look ahead and that there is a real chance with the way that, like Tampa, didn't they just hang eight on the avalanche last night? They're still dangerous.

They're still the Tampa Bay Lightning. But they're not. There is a real opportunity for the Leafs to win this division for the first time in a long time, is what we're kind of getting at here. They're up three with a game in hand on Florida now, and Tampa has a game in hand on Toronto, but they're four points back.

So, yeah, they have a little bit of room. You know, not that that's, I know there's a long way to go and all that, but, yeah, there's no reason in this position why they couldn't. And it helps, guys, that I think Stolarz is going to start tomorrow. He's been hot. A little bit of a layoff.

If they had any fans last week, right? We're going to go wall, wall, and then Stolarz Wednesday night. We did diagnose that. Let's hear what Craig Berube has to say about the break that Stolarz has had. I don't know. I mean, I think he's been fine with, you know, how he feels. And he's never once said he's tired or overworked. So he's in a good spot right now.

And, you know, like I said, we've rotated the goalies pretty well. And they've had enough time in between games to rest and make sure they're ready to do the job in that. All right, then. Yeah. I can see them being almost in a rotation kind of thing. And then if it goes well for the majority of the year where nobody really looks like they're getting derailed,

then you could be in an interesting position, like say the Boston Bruins were last year with Swayman and Allmark, and obviously you pick one guy. But it doesn't look like anyone's going to run away with 55 wins now. No, but what's going to be interesting. Or 55 starts. What's going to be interesting is both these guys, I think, have career highs in the 20s of games played.

I think 27 for Stolarz, 24 for Wall. Around the same number. And, you know, they're both in the around 10, 12, 13 games, whatever it is now. So interesting to see as they get into the season. And they're both playing their 30th game and their 40th game. Stolarz should get over 40. Yeah. He'll end up get over 40. Yeah.

He'll end up with over 40, especially with Wall missing early in the season. Yeah. But Wall's not going to be that far behind, I don't think. So when they get to Saturday, I can't believe how much hockey they play. Like I said yesterday, 15 times in 31 days. They play Saturday. Then it's Monday. Then it's Wednesday.

Then it's Friday. Then it's Saturday. Then it's Tuesday. Like it's just every other day. That'd be nice i love that i'd be nice talk about hockey games yeah that's good but this is quickly before we go question i'll ask both you guys like truth serum at you know at a boston pizza with with brad for living sitting there having a couple beers you asked him they want joe wall to be the guy right like they want it they want to go to the playoffs and have him what's have established himself you don't think so well i i get your

point he's younger he's under contract well by a large margin he's younger is he not yeah is it four years yeah something like that it's a big deal for sure it's a big deal it For sure. It's a big deal. It's going 26 to 30. It's set up for Wall to be the goalie for the Leafs the next five or ten years. That's not Stolarz, I don't think. Yeah. Can he come in and rock? That's best-case scenario for sure. Can he rock the whole Leaf nation by being the goalie that can carry a Leaf team to a conference final,

a Stanley Cup final, or dare I say it, a championship? And then, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm just saying, though. Just honestly don't go there. I want the championship! You're allowed to say that. No, we're not allowed to say that. That is not to be allowed.

Sammy's very sensitive. No, no, no, no. You can't even go there. If I even remotely get him excited like he's like the least could win the stanley oh my god stop do you think do you think they have a chance uh a lot of things have to go right here i i mean do i think that you guys are not doing do i think that they're going to be one of many teams that can have a legitimate shot at it?

Yeah, I do. And with maybe a tweak or two. You know, if right now you're the sixth, seventh best team in the league, maybe they're higher than that. Add a couple guys. It's November, and a lot of things have to fall in place on so many different levels.

What do you think, Sam? No comment. I just know from being a part of one already on how sometimes the dominoes have to fall in order for this to end up being a really good story could they fall just one year to get to the third round too hard right now to sit there and say if this if that if yeah all a ton ofs. Just need a lot of black ice outside the opponent's dressing room, a lot of rolled ankles, weak in some lineups. I'm just saying if that ever happened, boys,

I would not be in good shape the next day on this show. I mean, you would be allowed to be in bad shape. You'd be in drink on the air. I would lose four in a row you're not in good shape. No, like I would be in bad shape. Let the record show. Let the record show. We're going to need a new producer if they win a cup.

The Leafs didn't play Saturday night and I heard you were in bad shape. I was. It's correct. I got away from you a little bit on Saturday night. Got a little slippery, I would say. Did you fight six guys? No, I didn't. That's not my type. That's not my character to fight.

I was fighting my bed sheets. That's our boy Biz. Sounds like he did a nice job helping some people out and protecting himself. Couple, couple, two pieces. Yeah, but anyways, they are good. They are good. Can we get Sammy beat up for some press? Is that all it takes?

We can arrange that. Just ask a couple of the guys I play beer league against. They'd do it no problem. I heard you got taken down at beer league pretty good the other day. Yeah, I did. No comment. Alright. Well, I'll go to break. This is not a hockey play. Correct. Not a hockey conversation.

All right. We'll take a quick break. When we return, Stelic-tricity is back on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Gordon Stelic next when we return. Dive deep into Toronto sports and the NFL. The J.D. Bunkus Podcast. dive deep into toronto sports and the nfl the jd bunkus podcast subscribe and download the show on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts

thrill kipper and born show leaf editionarily, we'll set up Gord Stelic. Is he going to need help again logging on? Remember the early days before we were a famous television show and Gord would just call in from wherever he was in Toronto? I remember the dog park. Pioneer Village. Pioneer Village. Churnin' butter

I think in the produce section Of a supermarket Those are some wild times I'm trying to figure out a chord here We've had Elliot shoveling snow Marty St. Louis with the turn signal on Elliot eats, drinks He's in the backseat of a car

He's in the longest turning lane ever Live from Pioneer Village Where Gord Stelic is awaiting his butter churn. That's a hell of a drop. What a throwback. Where's that from? You had to dig deep for that one. We'll have to remind him of that.

I might just have to call him here, boys. Really? It's the second week, or it's the second time that we've had trouble, like logging him on. Well, at Pioneer Village, they don't have electricity. Where in the world is Gord Daly? Don't they get somebody to like walk on a treadmill to get something going?

The truth is, I don't even know what Pioneer Village is. I'm not from Ontario. I'm completely not versed in that. I'll just, I'm going to get him to FaceTime. All right, hold on. All right. so when we do get to gourd yes you need to grill on about the new lines probably what are your thoughts on connor doer so far because i have yeah

oh listen underwhelmed to start coming around a little i didn't mind him last game as well i think he's an energy guy i think he plays bigger than he is yeah and i think the rotation that we've seen from four or five guys in the bottom bottom six hasn't been that bad i know the results aren't you'd like to see more five-on-five, maybe a chip in here, a chip in there on the offense. But I just know that being in that role many times in my career, if you have guys that are capable, three, four, five of them, and on any given night you'd be told you're in or you're out, it keeps a level of energy up.

Yeah. And I do see that i do see healthy competition amongst those guys is that sustainable in playoffs yes especially guys in and out especially in playoffs yeah especially well the panthers did that right like lawrence was probably a guy and i haven't looked up his exact games played but i think he was probably in in and out guy lomberg was a guy that they had come in and out. Yeah, and Lomberg, of course, cashed in, did he not, with Calgary at...

He got a ridiculous number for a fourth-line guy. Didn't he sign... For a 5'9", fourth-line guy who just... Like $4 million or something? No. Lorenz played 16 games in the playoffs last year. Look up Lomberg. And so they probably played 20 as a team or something. He was in most nights.

When I say 4 million, I mean over two years. Okay. Yeah. He signed a two-year, $4 million contract. Yeah. Like that's a fourth line in-and-out guy. Interchangeable. Almost David Kampf money. Anybody that can play that role is anywhere

between 800 and 1-2 1-3 So To be clear I love Ryan Lomberg He's been very good for Calgary Lombergini Right

Incredible It's a great nickname He's been really good Yeah No Gord We're I guess It's okay

It's already It happens It's live We're gonna get him Don't worry One of the You worry one of the uh you know one of the thoughts on the bottom end here is having healthy guys i see you have murmurs back in the lineup here is dakota murmurs back available see now you know for sure like

nothing's going on with mccabe because you'd never have murmermis no on taking line rushes yeah yeah with uh tanov no no they got riley oel benoit timmons mermis tanov so very likely not what they're going to be presenting to you for coming late on the show. Hey, Kipper, I always come early. The last two times that the Zoom link was screwed up, whatever. So I'm trying to do it now. How do I look anyway? I'm doing the Zoom call.

You look fantastic, by the way. A new shirt? Half price from the Dinalda Club when I was curling there last year. So yeah, I just found it. How about that? Yeah. You have to pay at the Lost and Found? Not if they don't see you, Kippy.

It's free if they don't see you. Good call, Gordo. Good call. Thanks for joining us. Of course, you are the former general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs and do a terrific job for us here as well as 590 The Fan. So, Gordo, lots of talk on Matthews. More on the success of the Leafs without him.

So, let me ask you something. Whether he plays Wednesday or not or waits until Saturday, More on the success of the Leafs without him. So let me ask you something. Whether he plays Wednesday or not or waits until Saturday, how does that differ that they've had great success without him compared to maybe a team struggling and then wanting him to come back and fix things? Where do you think he is in his mindset watching a team go eight games at 7-1 without him? Well, you know, Kippy, you were part of that era

that when a guy got hurt, when the team struggled, he was the messiah. Oh, my God, when Nick Kiprios comes back, we'll be fine. When Nick Kiprios, then you're winning, and you go, is Nick Kiprios around at all? I don't, you know, keep him out of the dressing room. I don't even want him around, you know. And, you know, Pat Croce had that set up with the Philadelphia Flyers.

He basically disappeared, and he rehabbed you, and then you were allowed back to, you came out of a mine, and you saw a light again and everything, and your eyes got accustomed. So it was a bit of a different era. So the positives are, because you remember the absurdity years ago, Matt Sundin got hurt during the playoffs, at least went deep. And then people were saying, oh, my goodness, don't bring Matt Sundin back in the lineup.

You know, are you nuts? Same thing, Austin Matthews. I mean, it's going to be always a better team when he's there. What have they learned? The team's played well without him. They've showed their depth. They've showed their character. Mitch Marner's been off the charts. Tavares, Nylander, like, I know they have seven innings, They learned the teams played well without him. They showed their depth. They showed their character.

Mitch Marner's been off the charts. Tavares, Nylander, like, I know they have seven injuries, but after Matthews, your next three best players weren't hurt, so that's a plus. So I'm hoping, again, we all talk, guys, game number 83. Last year, they missed Matthews for games. They missed Nylander for games. They didn't score enough goals to win. A couple years ago, they had Morgan Riley TJ Brody

and uh Jake Muzzin all out for about 10 games I thought that I mean three of your top four D were out but they withstood that again it didn't help them go deep in the playoffs so I'm gonna look at the positives Austin Matthews can take his time they don't rush players back anymore anyways so he can get healthy and the Leafs you know have really I think the biggest thing is they've made home sweet home, home sweet home. Make home a tough place for the opponents to win, okay? Get home a disadvantage for the playoffs and make it a tough place for opposing teams to win.

Gord, presumably when Matthews is back, they'll put him back on the first power play unit with the rest of the superstars that they have. It's gone really well in his absence. What do you think they can take away from this time without him and apply going forward so yeah that's an interesting one justin like are the other guys shooting more are the other guys taking more responsibility and maybe do they continue to do that and there's not that um looking to feed austin matthews all the time and i'm i'm not saying that's a bad thing i mean o, Ovi in Washington, Stamkos when he was in Tampa Bay,

there's a reason you try to feed those guys because there's a good chance they're going to wire it in. But I think that's one, if you want to call a complaint about the power play when it hasn't gone well, is about sometimes the overdoing it to make the great play and say, hey, put a little bit of onus on yourself. Like in basketball, you take that shot. And so maybe we'll see a little bit of onus on yourself. Like in basketball, you take that shot. And so maybe we'll see a little bit more of that,

and maybe that'll be another positive, Justin. Gord, I don't know if we take credit for our Monday show where we started an in-depth conversation on Mitch Marner, but is it just a natural progression going into December and Christmas that the conversations will heat up, or did his recent play without Matthews really start it or dictate it? And in your opinion,

where does it head, the Mitch Marner conversation? So I think, Kipper, there's always been a number and you know that you're, you're close to scenes with contracts in general. There's always been an understanding just like last year, Willie Nylander didn't take a discount. There was a term and there was a number. And with Mitch Marner, there is that,

you know, John Tavares is a more interesting one. What is it going to take to, for him to stay in Toronto, whatever. But so in Mitch Marner's case, both sides said they think it's important to heat up. I think there's been both an understanding that Toronto Maple Leafs want Mitch Marner. Mitch Marner wants to stay with the Toronto Maple Leafs.

But there was also this kind of safety valve that if there's another playoff disappointment, and heaven forbid, or heaven forbid a regular season disappointment on top of that you can't keep bringing the same old same old back that doesn't mean mitch marner is the one person i just mean you can't keep doing that so i think that gave both sides a little bit of an option to see if the leafs okay whatever have to go in a different direction or something or mitch marner maybe was looking to go in a different direction or something or Mitch Marner maybe was looking to go in a different direction I think there's an understanding right now even though it's a quarter poll that all things look good on both sides so I would think if he finds it important

to get a contract done if I'm Brad for a living I'm trying to get a contract done I'm I've always been for signing Mitch Marner I just said you cannot be afraid of players walking away. You cannot be afraid of tough business decisions being made. Outside of the noise and the countless conversation, what is he worth? What isn't he worth? Do you wait or not? Where is this on the list of distractions and the noise? Will it quiet down if, in fact, let's just say that nothing progresses in the next little while?

Do you expect it to kind of run its course, or will it snowball into a distraction? Well, if they allow it to. If they allow it to. You know, I mean, and I have no idea. Like, you know, the perception is Mitch is a sensitive guy, so does it bother him? Well, then if it bother him?

Well, then if it bothers him, that's a problem. Does that mean the team has to acquiesce? Well, I think if they want him here in the future, even though Willie Nylander seems a cooler customer about it last year, then, yeah, you'll look to get it done if that's the plan. I mean, you can't, again, in the whole thing with Mitch Marner and others, the whole social media distraction about things, about being unappreciated or whatever it may be, that's all folly. Just forget that stuff, okay? Get down to business.

If you want to get a deal done, get it done. If you want to let distractions creep into play and factor in, well, then they will, but you're the one that allowed it. So it's up to them. He's a big boy they're big boys as far as women running the corporation and if they feel if both sides feel or one side feels it's really important to get it done now and the other side wants to get it done at some point I think this last player the start of the season's kind of proven well you got you got nothing to lose it's it's a sure thing right you know mitch marner is the sure thing that you can have a star player on your team and the toronto maple

east one you know if you want to stay there we'll get it done i think that's well said gordon and if he wants to go to ufa then he can you know that's a great option for a player too and leafs have a lot of cap space at that point and would look like a different team without him um you know it would be interesting without marner and then potentially without tavaras is there a number for you where keeping tavaras makes sense i'm gonna tell you justin in the broadcast world kippy and bob mccallan were outstanding going to the last day right a free agency they they could have they could sweat it out like that oh yeah elgorto was signing for whatever like three months before.

You know, I believe you. I believe you. I've seen it. Kip and McClellan holding macro. So he is the maestro. So if I'm Mitch Marner, I retain Nick Kiprios, Inc., as far as my contract handler. John Tavares.

JB already thinks I'm working for him. Has he? Are we sure he hasn't? Kip had a great line. I'm going to get back to Tavares. But Justin, he got one of his big deals, one of his 26 big deals he's got since I've known him. And since we worked at the score for $100 a night,

remember that? $100 a night. No, no, you were making $100 a night. I was supposed to tell you that. Anyway, whatever it was. But Kippy got one of his big deals. And after someone else was being a bit of a smart aleck with him in a friendly way, we're chatting. And he kind of goes something about, you know, like there's a, well, you took all the money and there's a budget and all that kind of stuff.

And Kippy's going, there's no budget and all that and then he draws the guy the guy was getting a little annoying and he goes kip he goes look i had leverage you had beverage i loved it you know and even the other guy laughed just kind of like yeah yeah that's all this is. I know Elliot laughed. It wasn't Elliot. But that word is leverage, Kippy. And that's what I'm bringing into it's leverage. And Mitch has leverage, although you should be unafraid of anybody leaving as a UFA, particularly when you've got the other pieces in tow. But in John Tavares case, that's a great question. Some people think he should work for charity, you know, work for nothing.

You know, no. And he's having a real strong season as well, particularly in the absence of Austin Matthews. Maybe he'll start playing with Mitch Marner even more. So I know talking to others, and I'm interested in what you guys think. So as of two weeks ago, I thought three years at $5.5 million. So Justin and Kippy, I don't know, what number are you kicking around? And that was two weeks ago. That could very much have changed in two weeks ago, I thought three years at 5.5 million. So Justin and Kippy, I don't know. What number are you kicking around?

And that was two weeks ago. That could very much have changed in two weeks. Yeah, I've been a hater. And I've said that I'm just not sure that I want to do it. I'm not sure it works. And I'd like to see it again. And I think Tavares, because of his family situation, would probably be more content, more willing to sign after the season.

I do think if Marner gets to UFA, he's gone. I'm not talking rushing. I'm not talking rushing signing Tavares now. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Like if they win a couple of rounds and he's good in the postseason, seems like he still has some legs, there's probably a number where you could talk me into it.

Yeah. And I want to look at, you know, what that center ice looks like yeah yeah and you know ultimately where where minton falls into place where a lot of other they're going to trade for a centerman we we know they're going to trade for a centerman but how big how deep what kind of commitment you have to make to him i yeah there's there it's not even close to being comparable situations between willie last year marner this year and what tavaris is you know in mid in his mid-30s he's a guy that does not want to leave anywhere and he's playing like it he's playing like he wants a new contract we're seeing him do things that we didn't see in the first six years.

The physicality, all of it. And it's not like there's a race to sign a guy that doesn't want to leave. Yeah. The only part is, maybe a little bit out of respect, is if you think, okay, this is where we see him fitting

in, and this is the money. Frazier Minton is a little bit still down the road in that. Then maybe if it gives him peace of mind now, you might look at doing it. But to go back to your original point, Justin and Kippy, no, I'm not in a rush from a Leach point of view to get that done. I'm saying talk to me when the season's over. And I would think John Tavares, like, they understand. He can come back, and he probably ultimately,

there will be a number that will allow him to stay. And it may not quite be the number he thinks he should get, but there will be that number. So if I'm the team, I'm I'm I'm playing it that way. And I would hope there'd be an understanding with John Tavares about that as well. All right, Gordo, I know you struggled logging on. Do you need help with your mouse? It's the X. If you drag your mouse. I'm not wearing this it's i'm not where i'll wear it i don't know i'm gonna go have a beverage okay i'm gonna enjoy a beverage and

think about the leverage i have okay it ain't on me and i'm gonna get to the bottom of this thanks gordo really appreciate your time excellent stuffordo, as always. See you guys. That is Gord Stelic. Yeah, I mean, I don't really remember saying that, but it sounds like something I would have said. Yeah, yeah, it sure does. Really sounds like you. Guilty as charged, I would say. Yeah, like, you got to play this whole thing out. There's so much on the line this year for everybody,

not just Marner, not just Tavares, but, you know, Brendan Shanahan too. And, like, they've got to find a way to take this thing to, I believe, in the comfort zone where everybody can sit there and say okay if they they don't have to win the stanley cup then what in your vision would be the second closest thing to a successful season that could give people hope in the next couple of years got to be a conference final i think that's like the definitive it and not not the goal is the right word but you have to get there. Otherwise, it's changes again, right?

Like drastic changes. I don't know. A couple of rounds. By the time you're in the third round. I'm sick of having this conversation. I know. It's every year where it's like, well, if they made, what about game seven of the second round in the hard fought series?

How about the cop? How about go to the final one? I know it's a tiresome conversation, but it's been tiresome for people to see them stick with the core four two yeah oh yeah no question when they thought maybe two years ago they should have broken them up yeah and they've doubled down and tripled down and that forces everybody else to have the double down and triple down conversation absolutely just win so but here's the but.

There is a little bit of hope. And I know hope isn't a strategy, as I've told you guys, but there is a sense that it may feel different. And not to be dramatic in November, but like pretty big game on Wednesday. That's very likely the team that's going to be chasing you in points. I'm not so worried about, well, I shouldn't even say that. Like, you know, you want to show well against this Florida team. And if you lose, it's not the end of the world. But I do think it matters.

I'll tell you another thing, too. Okay. Where you sit on Marner, you know, being a distraction, there's a big distraction there called sam bennett in that organization that is something that's hanging over their heads too where's he gonna be do you think he could be traded this year i think uh when you look at uh ufas yeah he has no trade protection there's always a possibility mitch marner has no trade protection, no move protection, too. No, Sam has, Bennett has none.

Yeah, I know he has none. But, oh, I thought you said he did. Sorry. There's always the possibility if people feel like it's time to move on, is my answer to you. We got to go. We're Sam and Mitch. Okay, Luke Gastic when we return in studio

on our national program.