Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Nation Limbo

Episode Date: May 16, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee open with some more reflections on Kyle Dubas press conference yesterday, the idea of Keefe potentially sticking around and the feasibility of making some significant changes. They are joined by former Leafs’ GM and Leafs Nation's Gord Stellick who discusses the team missing a golden opportunity and the fundamental problem with 'running it back' with the same core. (47:20). Next up, Sportsnet analyst Mike Futa joins the show (1:06:10) to share his thoughts on Dubas' 'family' comments, the mobility of Tavares' contract and some spicy trade targets the Leafs could exchange for one of the core four. Finally, TV analyst for the Dallas Stars Daryl Reaugh gives his take on Dallas making the WCF, Roope Hintz's playoff performance and if it is sustainable, the best goalie left in the playoffs and Peter Deboer enabling success. The guys close by going through some of the Leafs' looming UFAs and who they should prioritize.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is real Kipper and born on Sportsnet 590 the fan. Yes, we are live on Sportsnet 590 the fan. Sportsnet's YouTube channel, Sportsnet Now, and wherever you download your podcast, iTunes, Spotify, Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, David Sissboomba, Sammy McKee, and pushing all the right buttons, Derek Brandeo, who I want to start the show with Derek.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. I'm just totally blowing you off. I'm blowing Sammy off. I never even considered looking at David Sissboomba. I'm going straight to Derek Brand brandale i like it so derrick what was the question that you popped your uh beautiful mug in our studio and asked just prior to going on air i asked if this feels like they're just kind of letting everyone's rage subside for like the next

week or two when we all come to the sober realization that the best thing is to just run it back, baby. I would have answered before yesterday's press conference with a surefire yes. Probably. Really? That's where I was leaning towards, that they would just simply buy time and I'll find a way to talk everybody into, give me one more chance. Really? But.

Oh. But then I listened to the press conference, got nothing out of Sheldon Keefe and then Derek I got everything out of this curveball by Kyle Dubas

what I would say to that is that I think it requires me to have a full family discussion Chris so I can't... My family is a hugely important part of what I do. So for me to commit to anything without having a fuller understanding of what this year took on them

is probably unfair for me to answer where I'm at. I wish I could give you more, but we haven't been able to have those full discussions yet. But it was a very hard year on them, and thus it's tough for me to... What I would say is that I definitely don't have it in me to go anywhere else. So it'll either be here or it'll be taking time to recalibrate, reflect on the seasons here, but you won't see me next week pop up elsewhere. I don't, I can't put them through that after this year.

That was one of the all-time great curveballs that I've ever seen in a postgame. Not like leveraging other opportunities as a UFA, just saying, I might just not work. You know what? You can throw 10 more things at me, and I will come back to you and say, I don't know. I don't know.

I have no idea what he wanted to say or what message he wanted out there or where his head is at today. If we thought it was simply about Kyle going up on the podium and saying much like sheldon i don't really know i'm not in control i'd like to continue the journey of trying to win a stanley cup for the first time in 1960 since 1967 i like it here my family likes it here. My family likes it here. But didn't get any of that. We got the opposite of that, which changes everything. It's a great line, Christmas Vacation, where he says, you know, Ed, if I woke up with my head stapled to the carpet,

I wouldn't be any more surprised than I am right now. Fantastic line. And I felt that way when i woke up this morning yeah and i would have thought knowing what i kind of knew when i wrote an article about kyle dubas and his contract being less about whether or not the leafs wanted to give him a contract and more about, hey, what am I worth? That's abundantly clear today that they never left him hanging. There was always some feel that we want you back, but we just got to maybe work on the number or the term.

Right. But it never felt for me since I got that information that it was about, no, we're going to have to see where we are after two rounds, and then we'll decide. I think Frank Cervelli, who's one of the better insiders out there, has gone on record saying that they tried to sign him as early as this past weekend. So something was there for him waiting. And I think the assumption was that he was going to take it this week.

And then by the end of the week, we'd see Brendan Shanahan and Kyle together answering questions that everybody wanted answers to. Right. You know, my first thought goes to his family. I know he has two kids, five and under. Really? I mean, I get if you want to have discussions with your wife.

Yeah. Or maybe you're not consulting them. I don't think, you know, too many kids under five are feeling the pressure. Right. I think that's fair. Okay. But like, you know, I think there could be complicating factors maybe with their health, you know, like have their, is there something going on with a family member that it's been,

he hasn't been able to be there to provide whatever support or stability he feels they needed. And that's total spitball. Total legit. You know, and that's total spitball. Total legit. You know, like. Total something I get. Mm-hmm. But that's not sneaking up on the organization.

No. That's something that would have been shared, right? I would have hoped that they have such a good relationship. Yep. He has with MLSC or the board or Brendan Shanahan or people around there that they would be aware of that.

That was a concern for him throughout this process. I really got the sense that a lot of people in that organization were very surprised to hear about his family concerns in a press conference not behind the scenes behind closed doors yeah and you know there are certain ways this could

go to where you know he's waiting to see how something plays out with his family in regards to their health or development or whatever it may be. And it just didn't arrive in time. Any clear answers, but you're, you're right. Kip. It does feel like, you know,

is that what some of the negotiation is like, Hey, during the year, I just need a little bit more time, you know, away. Are they negotiating for more money, more money,

more time or support more or whatever it may be there. I don't know. Like I, I literally, I got nothing. I used to work with Kyle. Haven't talked to him in a long time i just uh again it just the timing of it and uh how it surprised a lot of people including a lot of people inside that organization uh i think it changes everything in terms of Kyle coming back and whether or not, do you have to revisit that?

Maybe Kyle just, his heart's not in it. It's just not in it. Oh, I know. I don't think you revisit that. He just about slit the throat of a fan in Tampa Bay for saying mean stuff about Morgan Riley. His heart's in it. Then who's, then what's holding him back?

What's holding him back, Justin? It's not, it can't be. You think it's money? Is that what you're saying? I haven't got a clue. Yeah. I don't think it's about money because it would have, it would have been easier if it was about money than it was about money.

For sure. Keep it about money. There's no reason to drag your family in it. Unless he's seriously considering not working. Then if he's at that place, then I as an organization have to really revisit whether or not he's in the right frame of mind to move forward here. Fair.

Is he having, does he need a mental break? That's a big thing now. And it's legit and it's real. So if he needs, if he's 37 years old and he's feeling it right now, then he should step back you don't want him now being the guy moving forward here and this is this is high stakes big league stuff yeah billions of dollars it's just not that though it's it is in the biggest hardest market, per se. Yeah. For sure. It's not Carolina. It's not Florida.

It's the Toronto market where, you know, that blow up in Tampa Bay, is that a reflection of how short his fuse is? He said, that's me. He said yesterday, that's me. It is him. Which I would have gone the opposite way. I would have played the, that's me he said yesterday that's me it is which i would have gone the opposite way i would have played the uh that's not me i would have said it's not me that's not who come out again though he can't hide that if it is then that's not who i want to be sure right i think people would have loved the if i may do the, you know, compare him to Trump and that and just go and it's, this is who I am.

You know, I'm flawed. You like it. And people love that he went at, he just. Sammy liked it. Yeah. The fan base, that's red meat. But that's not, that's, that's, yeah, that's a, that's a Sammy fan base. I'm starving for it.

We'll do anything to, but that's not a leader that's not the behavior of a leader that you want i agree i agree it's not it's not listen i went to my kids little league last night and the first thing they say is hey your role here as parents is to just be good role models that's all you need to do don't yell at the umps you know whatever and that's the leader of any major organization be a bit of a role model here with your behavior until my kids not starting. Then me and you got a problem, buddy. You know, there's a huge human element to this.

And I think when I re-listen to that clip, you do hear some pain in his voice there, like how hard it is. But at the same time, what did you expect going into this? Like you're the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. you think you're just gonna like have you know good sleep full nights where you're not worrying about a lot this is oh you're right this is pro sports you don't take a multi-million dollar job within the limelight and then they go be the gm he's not surprised he's just acknowledging it's

been a lot yeah no i just i you know i have shit i have sympathy for you i'm trying to win a cup now i know and i can't have a guy in there yeah who feels overwhelmed i agree with that i agree i actually have got an article i don't know if it's up yet on sportsnet but part of the thing that i wrote about is i wonder if they could go back to the start of this core when they're building the building, the culture or whatever, and just a little less kid gloves. I was with the Marley's when a knee Lander came through and all those guys,

they didn't let those guys talk to the media kit. They didn't let them play three and three when we had three and three, not they Lou. Okay, fine. Whoever it was, they had the kid gloves on for these guys that couldn't do anything. They get to this team.

It's support. Take what you need whatever i wonder if they wouldn't go back and ask for a little bit more you know sorry it's hard but it's a hard league you know a little less coddling and you know i i get your point here where this is a that's the business and so if you need more resilience if he is overwhelmed that fine. But it's okay to then step away. Yeah. But then there's, then you're saying that he should look at it and feel like they should have been less sympathetic. In some cases, I think they should have been less cautious with benching, sitting, public comments, you know, the way that they've kind of...

More tough love. More tough love is exactly what I'm trying to say. Which is the complete opposite of what I saw out of Kyle yesterday. The tough love. If you're going to go the tough love route, here's some tough love. You're not getting any sympathy from me.'m sorry you're 37 years old you got the dream job okay you didn't necessarily build up to it brendan shanahan handpicked you when every other team wouldn't even look twice at your resume and say you're ready for this you got the golden ticket and

you've been there and and now if if a 37 year old could look back at a at a 26 year old kyle uh kyle dubas that kyle dubas at 26 we go oh my god you're telling me i'm now going in my my my sixth year as the general manager of the tor Maple Leafs, I just walked into a new contract and we got a contending team. Oh my God, that's a dream for me. And he's not right now. It's almost as if he wants people to feel bad for him right now. Well, what's so hard about this is we just don't know. Like, you know, if you found out one of his kids was terminally ill after this,

we'd be like, oh my God, I can't believe we were saying that like we just don't know and so but they would know brendan would know i know i know and that's just an extreme example and it's not that's why i'm careful here is what i'm saying but that's not the case if it was trust me the greatest thing in the world is usually when the truth comes out. If Kyle was having issues, there'd be a thousand people defending him today and saying, just so you know, behind the scenes, and I know I've been in this business a long time. Somebody would call me and say, hey, just careful with that one. Just careful with him. He's feeling the pressure.

There's a lot going on at home. Be careful. And the first thing I would say is 100%. You got it. Okay. That's not happening here. So it'd be wild if it was just a money ploy. I mean, you know, that would be some sort of.

Yes. You know. And it, then just say it's a negotiation. Say, listen, we hope, I hope we can work out details. Or just, I just think all of this could have also been avoided if he just didn't go on yesterday. Well, or just, yeah, make the decision five days earlier. If you're going to make it the next five days, have a plan, you know.

We are 16 minutes in the show, and if he doesn't go on the podium, we've gone through Samsonov, we've gone through Ryan O'Reilly, we're talking about the defense, we're talking about core four. The dominoes can't fall until that one does. We are talking about a major storyline today that he created voluntarily. He didn't, nobody asked him yesterday, how's your family feel about this moving forward? He just, he threw that out on his own.

And I'm here today, 16 minutes in, and I'm saying, I don't have a clue what it what his intentions were by doing it. Yeah. He made the comment wish I could say more or wish I could tell you more or something at the end. I don't believe it's nothing. I don't believe everyone's well and fine and there's something there right and

right now MLSC and Brandon Shanahan have to find that out. Yeah, and they got to do it soon, guys. You can't let this just hang in the wind here. They need answers. Are you with us or you're not with us? You want to contract?

Well, the hard part is if he doesn't, then we got to start the whole process of interviewing. You don't want to rush that process. No, you have to. You have to be doing it now you're in competition with calgary you're in competition with pittsburgh you have to go out there and tell the best people that are available right now this job's available who wants it yeah i i just i don't understand what's what would need two or three more days, you know?

Kyle needs it. Yeah, no, I know he does, but, you know. And I don't know either. You know? And I've been around a lot longer than you. Sitting in the couch beside your wife, say, here's the offer. What do you think? You like it?

No. Yes, no. Okay, well, maybe tomorrow will feel different. Like, no, they need to know. Anyway. Anyway. Didn't sneak up on them either. Like, they knew they were in the last year of their deal,

and they probably went through the whole process of thinking about different scenarios, including staying, including going to a conference final and what that number could be and how many years we wanted. And, hey, Pittsburgh's available. You want to sniff that out? You want to find out if they would be interested in us if the Leafs aren't interested?

All of that stuff happened behind the scenes. Maybe he's waiting to see if he can buy the Sioux, give himself a lifetime appointment as GM, and have his dream job running the Sioux St. Marie Greyhounds, his favorite organization in the history of sports. I don't know. It's weird. Sammy, any lasting words on this?

All we did was come up with, we haven't got a clue what happened yesterday. I think a decision needs to be made pretty quickly here. And I disagree with you guys in terms of like, you know, this is a billion dollar organization, multi-billion dollars, so much at stake. Matthew's got like, probably should just let us know here pretty soon. You know, like I know you, you got to talk to your family, you got to talk to everybody, but like there is franchise altering decisions that all stem from what your decision is.

So it might be time to make that decision. And I understand it's a hard one. There is a human element. I believe what he said in that stuff, but like your job is different from others. You have, like Kipper said, one of the dream gigs in the world. It's, I don't know.

I see the Philadelphia 76ers get eliminated from the playoffs and like the next day the coach is fired, accountability right away. It's just like this mushy middle stuff where we don't know what's going on with anyone, and no one's really saying anything. It's just more of the same. To Derek's question to start the show,

I actually think people are going to be more upset if this bleeds into nothing and they try to sneak it back the same. I really don't want... If it's run it back, I will be disgusted. And I don't think any time's going to change that. I think the tone of our show would be very different next year. I really don't, I have no time for run it back. Are you still disgusted if Brendan, Kyle, and Sheldon are back, but either Matthews, Marner, Tavares, or Nylander are gone?

Yeah. You're still disgusted? Yeah, I don't think... That's not enough change for you? No. Player personnel would not be enough change? No. I think there's just been too little success.

Like, I know they got past the first round, and that's a great achievement or whatever, but you're trying to win the Stanley Cup. You're not trying to get past the first round. They won one game in the second round. They're one game better than they were last year. I just... Two.

Not two. I don't know. Keefe's going to stick around. I have a tough time with that. I really do. You know, I look at every other big four league, or you look across overseas. Like, Chelsea's had three coaches this year. They keep firing people in there.

Is that true? Yes. Like people lose their jobs when you're a big team and you don't have results. That's professional sports. And it's just year over year. We're getting told to run it back. If they run it back again,

I will be disgusted. Disgusted. I think that's fair. It's just, you got to have some accountability at some time. It's the Toronto Maple Leafs. Like, is this good enough?

More kid gloves, sandpaper gloves. Is this good enough? Like, you need a culture shift. Anyways. Can I ask one more question before we let go of this? Yeah.

Listen, I know at times I can be accused of being a little insensitive, at least for my wife. You know? Which, oh, by the way, I did remind her. I got a little choked up when, like, Leo DiCaprio let go of the door

and drifted into the ocean in the Titanic. Like, it got to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're human after all. The feeling that Kyle left us yesterday was that this season took a toll on his family. Yeah, mine too. Yeah. No.

All of Leaf Station. I'm being sincere here. Okay, okay, okay. Am I missing something? Was it that bad? Was it that tough? Were we hard on kyle were we was the social media all over him that that he felt a ton of weight on his shoulder this year i saw a team that found out that they were in the playoffs playing tampa bay by november and had home ice advantage by January.

I just, I don't know where... Doesn't get much smoother than that. I don't know where this... No scandals, no... This feeling that it's such a tough market on Hammer's family. I don't know. The pressure to win is the only thing I got.

Okay. Yeah. But it wasn't really horrible from our end, was it? You were terrible. You're personally responsible for all this. All right. You've been talking to my wife. Dubas' sleepless nights are because of you, Kippy.

All right. So it was like there's a top team. He got a lot of, I think, accolades at the trade deadline. Oh, yeah. Right? Nobody was ripping him at the trade deadline. No. Did the right things. No, kip is start to finish it was as smooth as hockey seasons go it's just toronto and it's

noisy okay if we didn't answer anything in the last 20 minutes let's hope that gourd stelic has some answers for us leaf nation pre and post former gm of the toronto maple leaves hello gordo kipper and justin i've been listening to you okay so yesterday answered the question is toronto a tough market a demanding hockey market they did a we are the world video yesterday i was expecting to see springsteen and cindy lobner and michael jackson again did we win the Stanley Cup like you know everybody loves everybody sometime you know like I mean I'm all good with that I like the nucleus of the team there's a lot of positives it was a great regular season but Sheldon Keith's the only guy who said we missed a golden opportunity because great you won the first round but the first three games Florida

flat out wanted it more. And if you're going to move together with this gang, you've got to understand, it's not good enough that the first three games allow the other team to cut your space out, to want to win the puck battles. So all of a sudden, when you wake up and play a great style of games, four or five, you've got no margin for error. And now, to your point, like Kyle Dubas, and I'm going to say with all due respect to anyone's family situation,

well, honestly, if it's that upsetting, wait until next year. It ain't going to get better. That's the kind of thing. And I wish him all the best dealing what he wants to do. But we need somebody like tomorrow, the day after, to get at the task at hand. So, you know, it just was, it was just, you know, Kyle's news was what we didn't expect. Austin Matthews was a positive that he wants to sign long-term.

But the other thing, did the guys, did they have a theater arts class and rehearse everything they were going to say, right? It was all very positive. Everyone wanted to be back. You know, that was sort of the, the tone of the day. So nothing caught you off guard with what everyone else said from key for

Tavares. All those guys said, said the right things. Were you surprised to not hear more, I guess, frustration or animosity. Not surprised, disappointed. Like I've been every summer. And I'm not, again, I don't frustration or animosity? Not surprised, disappointed, like I've been every summer.

And again, I don't mind the team wanting to come back. I like that this is an attractive organization. This is a first-class organization. If they're making it appealing for guys to play there and men and women to be employed there, that's great. I just like sometime a little, a couple of years ago after it was Columbus, Kyle Dubas was upset about the social media stuff at Mitch Marner. You know, I mean, after Montreal, they said, like, oh, it's part of the learning process. What process?

What process? So that's all. That's my only point. Hey, Austin Matthews, Mitch Marner, you got two superstar players, okay? You got two. They'll live in the memory of Lee Sands forever. You got Joe Wall and Matthew N knives is two real positives next year. So there,

there's a lot, there's a lot of things out there, but you know, again, what, since they won, since they lost in six to the Washington capitals, got a standing ovation.

You did not think it'd be seven years later. They finally win a playoff round and then really go out feebly in the next round because they woke up too late that's all i i mean i just if you're going to keep the same old gang you you got to get it when it comes to the playoffs and i i mean i don't expect them to be skewered i don't know you know and you wrote a good column justin about the big four can't speak for the big four they all want to be here they're all independent parts that's up for management to think and you know whatever and figure all those kinds of to think and you know whatever and

figure all those kinds of things out so you know i i draw so many positives from the season as a whole but just after tampa bay and i talked on your show about you know really exercising yourself of all these playoff demons of 19 years and then you put yourself back kind of in another one so gordon what is when you listen to Kyle's comments, what's the first thing that you thought? He wants more money, more power, or just sympathy? Can I hold on? Before you go, Gord, can I throw one other theory?

Sure. The theory being that he was pissed off that they left him hanging as a lame duck GM and that that was what was hard on his family this year. And this is making them sweat it out a little bit too, for how you know what his family's been through. That's it. Well, that's it.

I just want to say that's a very dangerous game. Well, yeah, yeah, no, no, that's. And you know what?

I, I've mentioned it before. Alex and populous still owns the house four down from me, us. And I talked to him quite a bit when he went through a situation that was very public because they'd already hired an heir apparent right with the toronto blue jays anyway and and he left and went on and things worked out and you know that so kyle claims says says i shouldn't say claims kyle says that's not his intention right so okay he was he was up front about that brendan

shanahan didn't speak is this the first time time Brendan Shanahan hasn't spoke at one of these after? I don't know, but you know, usually, yeah, usually he's one of the guys that speak. So whatever that's, you know,

and give Kyle a 10 year job contract. I'm fine with that. Change general managers. I'm fine with that too. I'm not the guy that does all that stuff, but the toll it extracted, which I feel bad about, feel bad about on family.

Then, you know, you, you know, you got that. You got it. You're you know, you've got to get the boxing gloves and be right back in the heavyweight battle there. And, you know, I think he's put an excellent organization around him with Jason Spezza, Brandon Pridham, and many of the other people.

But, you know, geez, it's like if we were just talking about, you know, hiring somebody and they were reticent about the job, your first inclination would say we probably have to look somewhere else i mean that would be that would be human nature i'm not saying that's what you do here but that's human nature if somebody doesn't appear to be all in no i think that's only natural yeah i'm okay with brendan shanahan not speaking yesterday because it's different from years past where last year was all about another chance. And that was the message from the get-go.

That we believe in this group and they double down on the core. And that was the message right from the get-go. Which is fine. That's what they decided. So be it. Brendan couldn't come out Monday and 48 hours say, we want to bring Kyle Dubas back. It was just, it would have looked like you didn't give it any thought. Brendan was smart to do one press conference instead of two this week.

And the thought was the first one would have come out probably at the end of the week or early next week that Kyle's got an extension and everything had led us to believe that there was a contract extension waiting for him did he change his mind at the last second yesterday to Justin's point and wanted to send a message that I'm not crawling back to you guys you just don't get me me. I could stay home instead of taking your crappy offer. I don't know. Justin, when he

mentioned that, that's exactly because, Kippy, you articulated this was as smooth a year as Kyle Dubas, I think, has faced. There's no talk about signing Matthews, Marner like it was a few years ago. As you mentioned, they knew they were playing Tampa Bay in November, and by January knew you had home ice advantage.

And the fact then that he goes public in an organization that's very private about anything internally, that now he has shared that with the general public, whatever this pressure is. And you're right. I mean, it makes you think that. And the other part, Kippy and Justin, we saw with Gerard Gallant in New York, the fact that you appear one or two days after,

does it mean you're still going to be here five, six, seven days, three weeks after? You know what I mean? I don't know what to make of everything. It is all very strange. So once he gets signed, well, well i assume or someone else gets hired they got a lot of decisions on the table and we've kind of gone over some of the bigger higher level ones for the first time in two days i want to ask you about some of the other guys they got a lot of

ufas i mean samsonov ryan o'reilly achari kerfoot hall camp who among these guys do you prioritize court okay i i don't worry about what i say prioritize, Gord? Okay, I don't worry. When I say, I'm not saying this dismissively, I don't consider Kerfoot or Hall a priority. I'm interested in what Gustafson's all about. They never really got to use him. The fact that you got McKay, but he's got some terms, his term is a real positive.

I love Luke Shen. I thought, I love Luke Shen and what he did for Morgan Riley, so I view him as a priority. Noel Achari, I view as a priority priority i think i already mentioned kerfoot uh i you get a different kind of player for 3.5 million ryan o'reilly um again he was hurt he never was 100 he'd be a great addition i don't know what his asking price is or whether it's saint louis he's going to go back to right away uh set you matt mur, you probably look at buying out or making the ninth Peter Moraszek-type deal to take contract on

because you've got Joe Wall and Samsonov as an RFA. And Murray did okay when he was around, but the injury thing is just too big a question mark. So, you know, they're not ridiculous issues. You've got Nylander and Matthews a year down the road. If Matthews, what he said, if he doesn't start, if talks don't, if you don't have an announcement in July, that's probably a problem because that becomes a distraction.

William Nylander's the one about some people just want to trade him to say, yeah, we traded him. About time we traded. Well, hey, one thing Kyle said, he'll entertain anything. And that's a little bit different than before. And he can only entertain anything up until July 1st when guys get no move or no trade contracts kick in. So that's the kind of stuff.

So I really don't look at it as, I mean, Matthew Nyes and Joe Wall are two real pluses. You don't have a lot of draft picks. That's another unfortunate part of the legacy is that they've traded draft picks like a team that should have won a Stanley Cup or been in the final. But it's not like when Kyle got handed the keys and he had to sign all those guys.

That was almost a bit unfair. It's so strange that Shanahan was impatient with Lou Lamorello and very patient with Kyle Tuvas. It's so funny all these years later. But I don't think there's a ridiculous amount of work to be done. As far as the big signing, or I should say really two, because Nylander is right in the same boat as Austin Matthews, both eligible to assign extensions July 1st.

Where do you prioritize? And what do the deals look like, Gord? So, you know, Austin probably wouldn't go short-term. It wouldn't be bad to go short-term and see where the cap goes up in two years' time, and then you could get as close to 20% of the cap as you want. I mean,

the thing about hockey is, you know, unlike, say, Vladdy Guerrero with the Jays, where there's no cap, you have no idea what kind of money he's talking about, and could a team like the Yankees, you know, beat you by 10 million? I mean, it's a finite number for all 30 teams in the NHL. So does he want to get ahead of McKinnon's 12.6 for now? And of course, McDavid will top him, trump him with that in a couple of years.

I mean, is it around 13 million? I mean, that's where I see him going. That's what he deserves. Yeah, it can be fascinating on that front too. So as they head towards these decisions, is Sheldon Keefe going to be the guy here? Like, how would you feel about it if Sheldon Keefe, if they brought him back for another season?

Again, I'd be okay. Shelf life, any coach, you know, except if you're, say, John Cooper and you're having that kind of success. But, you know, Kippy, you know, and these exit interviews now, I mean, Kippy, your exit interview, you wouldn't say boo because that would come back on you. And now, you know, now the exit interview is like, really, beyond three years is a hell of a run for a head coach right now.

And it's shown you can get, I mean, Peter DeBoer is taking his fourth different team to the conference final. So you can get jobs elsewhere. So, you know, I mean, that's where I'd like to know more internally there. So, I mean, if they're going to keep him, fine. I like Sheldon. If they're making a coaching change, given the record and what the expectations.

And, you know, I know know sammy brought up chelsea for example whatever but you know if it's uh if it's the right thing i'm fine with that as well but i'm just this but i'm just like guys this isn't good enough okay i know y'all want to be back but this set okay you got by the first round whoop-dee-doo the second round that's not good enough to attack it like you did the first three games. You know, that culture or something, whatever that it factor is, that has to be permeated and embraced and accepted by the team if they're talking about more success moving forward. They got teams coming up the butts now with Detroit, Buffalo, whatever,

you know, in the Atlantic Division. You know, has Florida passed them now? You know, whatever. I mean, there's a lot more challenges out there coming in the regular season as well. Maybe a changing of the guard in the Atlantic Division. Boston, Tampa Bay, and maybe Toronto. Maybe this is the year that all three of them maybe take a step back.

Yeah, I don't think right away, but it's going in that direction. I mean, it's been the have and have-nots for a couple of seasons, and certainly Toronto Maple Leaf fans know what being a have-not's like. You know, by the way, Kyle Dubas got a team that was in the playoffs. It's not a team that you look back and the first body of work was to get into the playoffs. They were in the playoffs. It was about having that kind of playoff success.

I mean, that to me was supposed to be the marker after whatever number of years. And if you base it in the big picture, it's a failure. That's all. And same with Sheldon Keefe. If that's how you want to base it. But anyway, they can internally choose how they want to base things and make decisions moving forward.

You know, you're never a failure when you come on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. Heat! That's why I come on. That's why I come on. That's why I come on. You know, I feel good. You know, like, I leave and it's like the first day of the rest of my life, right? It's just great.

Great work. You know, if Kyle does decide he doesn't want to come back, you could easily just slide in there for your second stint. Would it be a raise from a current role, Gordon, do you think? How old were you when you had the job i was 30 i was 30 i'd be like uh um i'd be like uh who's the guy that took over from jimmy jones for the dallas cowboys that won the uh that came out of eight years of retirement won the uh oh for anyway the uh yeah yeah i'm ready i. 30 years old, general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Did they have a parking spot for your big wheel?

Oh, yeah. No, I got Punch Imlach's old spot. Nice. And also, in all seriousness, it was good being single when you're GM. I just meant, like, you know, there is a lot of pressures. I do empathize about that. And nowadays, there's different demands about, expected demands being a family guy that you like.

I mean, gosh, you think of the old era where people would go on the road when their son or daughter's been born. Anyway, I was kicking ass, man. I was single. I was GM of the lease, and I had a parking spot. And yeah, if those walls could talk, that's all they can tell you. I can only

imagine. I can only imagine. I can't wait for your documentary to come out soon. Oh, that one will have to be dead first, but it'll be out. Bert Stalick, always a pleasure, man. Thanks for doing this. See you guys. Yeah. I don't agree that Brendan needed to come out as early as Monday because if he already had answers,

you don't want him to come out 48 hours you got knocked out. It's like, as you guys have a couple beers and decide this on your own, he's going to come out fairly soon here. It's weird to do a press conference where you don't know who the GM is. Like they had made him an offer as mentioned. That would be super weird. And all Kyle had to say was, i don't have many answers right now we're sorting things out i'll speak when uh i have answers for you and nobody would have said boo uh chris drury he didn't go to the podium and tell everybody 48 hours later that uh you know what he was going to do with gerard gallant

yeah i mean this stuff does take some time and it is the the flip time of locker clean out interviews and all that like you need to get the players before they leave town but it's tougher for the management in many cases they should probably just say our guys are our leaders our management isn't going to talk for another week or something like that just when when they have answers yeah they'll they'll talk they'll talk yeah leave it to the players you guys are the press you're going to be in town we'll let you know what's happening his no one's talking about what sheldon said yesterday i honestly kip don't remember i could take a test right now i'm not a clue there's one thing he did say about how you know he didn't think that they attacked the Panthers

as hard as they should off the start. They kind of eased their way into it. You're literally the head coach. You could have told him to not do that. Sammy, but he's telling us stuff we already knew. Yeah. We watched the games. Kyle did quite a job walking through the things

he liked Sheldon did, though. Yes, which means that he was leaning towards bringing him back it's a mistake it's a mistake i if i'm not saying whether it's a mistake or otherwise i'm just telling you how i read the tea leaves you're gonna go into next year and you know with a new looking roster and they come out minus kneelander they have a they have a slow start and it's like we have to have this conversation again in October. If we pulled the real Kipper and Bourne show exactly a year ago

after they got knocked out of the game seven, he had the same conversation with me. I said bring it back. I had this conversation if they lost to Montreal. A lot of people did. I always thought that was the strangest thing because he came in halfway through the Columbus year or something and then had the one year in a bubble and people were that was the strangest thing because like he came in halfway through the columbus year or something and then had like the one year in a bubble and people were like fire

him it was like no the columbus one no but you thought like you thought that it was weird that people after they blew a 3-1 lead to their most historic rival it was his first full year and it was a bubble year and their captain was brained no no, no. That was, I would have been very happy with everyone gone after that. Yeah, that's emotional, not practical. That was horrible. Good. In retrospect, it looks a lot worse. It's now the year 2023

and we're having the same conversations. Why are we having the same conversations? Because people don't believe that the same result will happen over and over and over again. And they have. No, they do. But none of them are under the MLSC roof.

Right. Do you know what the definition of insanity is, fellas? Is it playing the last results is the thing that's going to happen every time? No, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. That's also not the definition of insanity. I hate that quote. It's true. You talk about these guys and shrinking in big moments and running it back.

It's like, how much more do you need to see with everyone? Well, I don't know. The guys in the conference final as head coaches, Pete DeBoer, has he ever been knocked out in the playoffs before? He's 7-0 in Game 7. Yeah, okay. Well, that's crazy. Ever won a cup?

I don't know. Has he? No. He's 7-0 in Game 7. How about Paul Maurice? How's Paul Maurice been in playoffs? Things change. won a cup i don't know has he no seven or no game seven how about paul maurice how's paul maurice been in playoffs is he like things change people have success after failing that's sports they've gone they've had more success deeper without winning a cup than

100 well now it's obvious he's had enough time i say it's time too okay it wasn't then all right we're just spinning around sammy what do you have for us buddy let me just cool down here fellas so we can get into some playoff picks yay presented by bet 365 visit the app for the latest odds so the new round means new odds so i want to ask you guys this is a really hard question who's in in the conference finals? No. Oh. What, can you list who the favorites are in order? Yeah, okay, let me try. Yeah, you go. I already wrote them down.

You did? Okay, well, you go, then you're ready. Vegas. Carolina. Dallas. Nope. I'm giving you my order. Yeah, you're wrong so far. So you got Vegas, Dallas. Nope. I'm giving you my order.

Yeah, you're wrong so far. So you got Vegas, Dallas. Vegas, Dallas, Florida, Carolina. All right. That's my order. I'm going Carolina, Vegas, Dallas, Florida. Nailed it. Ah!

I'm a bookie on the side. Yeah, you are. He probably looked. No, no, I didn't. Just like Aaron Judge, you're cheating. Aaron, oh, is he Judge yesterday? Hitting bombs over Sammy's head, but looking towards the dugout. What was that all about? Was someone chirping him?

No, he was cheating. He was what? He was cheating. He was getting signs from the dugout, and probably he was sitting on slider, and he hit a slider to the moon. 300 miles. So is that really cheating or is that just baseball?

To me, you're allowed to steal signs. I'm fine with it. There's no trash cans involved. No. So I was sitting in the right field seats and that ball was on its way up when it went by me. I've never seen a more majestic home run than that one that I saw yesterday. All right. He is a figurehead. He is right there on our other tv back to playoff picks um i don't know like this is such a so carolina's plus 230 vegas is plus 250 dallas is plus 280 and this and panthers are plus 325

i mean if you're looking for a bit of value how could you not bet on the panthers they could easily win the cup for sure i think i like d value, how could you not bet on the Panthers? They could easily win the Cup. For sure. I think I like Dallas best in that regard. Not to win the Cup, but like 280 value-wise, I think I like Dallas. I like Dallas. I like Dallas a lot. So there's that one for you.

Kipper, who do you think I put in the lineup? Did you look at the lineup already? Who the constant favorite is? I did see it. Yeah. Jack Eichel. Yeah. Is that surprising to you?

I like him, but... He played really well last game. I think there's a chance that Bobrovsky could easily go into a favorite if we see them get by Carolina. Probably not going to be Nick Cousins, even though he scored at the big ones in this series. God, the Leafs have got nicked twice in two years. Paul and Cousins.

Leafs are getting nicked up pretty good. So, yes. So then some other notable ones are Sebastian Ajo plus 700, Kachuk plus 700, Freddie Anderson plus 800, and Sergei Bobrovsky plus 10 to 1, Mark Stone 10 to 1, Ottinger 10-1. Rupe Hintz 10-1. Joe Pavelski.

Ottinger 10-1 is a nice one. Joe Pavelski 16-1. Would Jack be the most naturally gifted hockey player left in the Stanley Cup playoffs? I don't think it's particularly close. Maybe Ajo in Carolina. It's not exactly the most star-studded field. I guess Chuck is like you know whether you call him naturally gifted or not but he's like a hockey player yeah you know he's not a

he's meat potatoes yeah yeah he's a meat and potato superstar and uh the last ones i'll give you here for most goals in a series uh for both the series rupe Hintz, Jason Robertson, and Jack Eichel are all plus 550 to lead that series in goals. And in the East, Matthew Kachuk, who did not score in the second round, is the heavy favorite at plus 375 to lead the Eastern series in goals. So there you go.

That was Playoff Picks presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds. Okay, let's take a quick break. And then Mike Futa will join us. That's five. Visit the app for the latest odds. Okay, let's take a quick break. And then Mike Fuda will join us. Daryl Ray also in the second hour, Dallas Stars TV analyst. And we'll get a little bit of his thoughts. Jake Ottinger may be the best goalie still.

If goalie Bob does what Leaf fans would have hoped he would have done last series and disappear. And Peter DeBoer, as Sammy said, 7-0 in game sevens. What an incredible feat. I'm Nick Kiprios. He's Justin Bourne. Sammy McKee behind the glass. And we are back after these words. Smart takes on the biggest stories in sports the fan drive time with ben ennis

subscribe and download the show on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts this is real kipper and born on sportsnet 590 the van 90 The Van. Clearly we solved nothing with Gortz Delic. Like, really nothing. So let's just keep the show moving along and solve nothing with Mike Futa. Love it. Another fun guy to chat with. No, no, no, no.

This is where the buck stops. He's got answers. Futs has got all the answers for us. Former NHL executive. Name on the Stanley Cup. Come on. You had a contract in front of you if Dubas doesn't take his Futes or what? In a heartbeat.

Can I meet you guys in like two hours and I'll go over what I really want to say? Listen, you've been around a long time. End of the season, you've got your clean up the locker day, meet with the players. Basically, the whole idea is to just get out as quickly and as quietly as possible. Anything but happened yesterday with Kyle Dubas' comments, correct?

Yeah, I mean, and I'll tell you, in 2012, the two best press conferences ever were 2012-2014 because nobody can ask you anything that's going to piss you off because you're so hungover from holding on to the Stanley Cup that it doesn't matter. But, I mean, I just felt yesterday, it was, and I, first of all, I have a lot of respect for Kyle as what he said as a family man, okay, because that's true.

And it obviously means a lot to him, and it's always meant a lot to him. I just think where that thing was at, it was like there was really no, to evaluate whether they're what actually happened with the team should there be it's like okay i'm going to go home and just over the next couple days whether i'm coming back and there was never any really thought to are these guys coming back uh based on what happened with the team and i've been a huge proponent as you guys. I mean, Borny, I've sat beside you all year and I've talked to you guys,

but some of these moves were, I loved them, right? So it's not, like, I'm not one of these guys that sits and throws, you know, and then says, oh, well, you just did a bad job. I mean, but I also, we called him out on some things, like whether it was, you know, Richie last year or Matt Murray this year, but he found ways of, he made up for his own errors, right?

Samsonov came through and they had walls, so they never really became issues with how the team performed. But I don't see the difference other than some slight verbiage between last year saying, hey, we're willing to do anything to make any trade to make this team better, but we're not just going to make a trade for making a trade for the sense of making a trade. So to switch the verbiage to say, Hey, if it's going to help us win a Stanley cup, everything's on the table.

I don't see any difference in what was said from last year to this year. It's just a few things like that should be the case every single year, right? Like there should be no, it's just a few it's like that should be the case every single year right like there should be no it's an easy it's it's not where you're not going to do what's necessary or what what's have you but i mean i just look at i really think at some point it's easy to say you know when i obviously i would want mariner back on an extension and matthew's back on an extension and but i also think that at some point there's gotta be, like, what, what, what is wrong with sitting down and having that conversation with John

Tavares about where things are at. And, and just, it's not like where you just get asked a question by a reporter and he goes, Oh, see, he says he's staying. So that's fine. Right. I, you know, Oh man, you got a picture with the pajamas. Come on, he's not going anywhere. Like this is huge pieces of decisions that have to be made. And again, we're not behind closed doors

to find out they are, but it certainly sounds to me like everybody was just, everybody wants to be back. Everybody loves each other. We're a real tight group. Everybody that come in, comes in. Certainly when you have someone like Ryan O'Reilly and I get it from Giordano and I get it from, you know,

Shen or guys that I've been responsible with, that it's clearly the Taj Mahal of NHL, of sports organizations. Like you get treated like pure gold. You've got Bobby Hays, you've got the best of everything there. They travel first class, they eat first class. That building is like a mecca. So it is an incredible place to play. Yeah, there's added pressure.

But think, first of all, they're all rich already, right? So fortunately, and that's the earn the money, right? Connor McDavid, same thing. He hasn't won, but they've had huge contracts. We were fortunate enough, and as I've said in the past, we paid Kopitars and Dowdies after they won for winning. That's not the case anymore. And that's not just with the Leafs.

So it's an issue is what it is. But I just like to see more passion, more accountability. I mean, for somebody, a Toronto-born kid, I mean, I interviewed whatever years ago with Shani. And it was very, you know, it was more just probably one of the most privileged days of my life. But, I mean, they were going with Lou Amarillo. And that's like you just tip your hat you're going with louis amorello but just even thinking about being the general manager of the toronto maple leafs

is something that just shakes you to the core and it should it should matter enough and if somebody's in that position and isn't all in or has some questions then you make a move you change move. I didn't think that press conference was an incredibly good look on the powers that be, as emotional and forthright as it was. I mean, all the players come out and say that they love Kyle, and I know they do because they tell me the same thing. Look what's not to love. Look at the contracts he gave me. Look at the warm blanket he's put around me for all these years.

Well, and you know what? He's protected them in the news media i mean he protected all this he even said he protects him when he's in a press box and he wants him in a fan once it's true but at some point you know they got to step up to the table and protect him and that didn't happen and and it didn't happen against the team that they were much better than and And Tampa almost got to them, which just, it's beyond me how you can be that good in something, and maybe that comes back on Keefe, that these guys didn't find a way to, especially after taking out Tampa when they weren't at their best,

be better than the Florida Panthers. And they went into Florida with weeks left in the season when Florida was fighting to just get in the playoffs with their B team and wipe them out with Florida. They should have been stomped out early. They weren't. And now the same questions are being answered.

And I personally think that there does have to be some change and certainly some change within the lineup. And I mean, obviously I've shared a lot of my thoughts with Borny and I still think there's a lot of things that you can do with this team to change the look of it and not give up on your entire core, but just have a whole completely different look to your team moving forward

with regards to a consistent, consistent compete level. We're talking to Mike Futa, former Los Angeles King executive stanley cup champion sports net hockey analyst so futes i want to pick up on what you just said uh there's many ways to have a different look here and you mentioned tavaris and 99 of the people would say uh he's on the the back three on the on an 18 hole course and that he makes $11 million for two more years, hasn't a no move that makes it an unmovable contract.

But what I hear from you is you saying not necessarily. Okay. And here, I'm just going to throw money. Okay. And it's not, for me, it's not water cooler stuff.

If you can't just move the money, right. Then shift, shift the check, shift the chairs on the deck. Okay. There's a guy playing defense in Los Angeles that makes $11 million. That's right. Okay. That's from the area that, Hey, is there any chance? And God, I don't know that John Tavares, his wife, they totally want to move to Los Angeles before, that John Tavares wants to go down,

their competitive team to win a cup, that John Tavares goes down and helps the Los Angeles Kings and Doughty comes home to Toronto? What kind of different look do you have there? And I'm not saying you're just going to convince a team to move out $10 million or something like that, but I think that that's the kind of deal that clearly feels you've

still got a guy they've got equal amount i mean i think dowdy's got an extra year in his deal but you got a guy that's still playing 28 30 minutes a night in los angeles fills a fills a gap here that grew up with the same you know love of toronto and again it's just a thought it's oh it's a good thought i like it here what do you think about thoughts i'm not just it's uh so i'm not been sitting. My ears are perked up. Well, I'm not playing hockey pool stuff. And you know what?

All it takes is for somebody to say no. But it's certainly worth asking. Because it changes dramatically. And you know what? If you offend somebody, you're still rich. We still love you. But we've got to do something here. We didn't win.

I didn't like. I love John Tavares. I did not like him acknowledging how good, I mean, what is his name? Buck is just growing. But I didn't like the fact he was talking about how strong he was away from the puck in the Florida series. Like, that's not, that's not good enough from your captain. And he's a class act all the way through and through. And he also said how proud he is to be the captain and what a pure honor it is to be the captain.

Well, for me, I mean, I wouldn't necessarily just throw it over to Mitch or to Austin or Omar. I'd find a way to get the guy that come across for me as the captain, like the true, true, true blue captain was Ryan O'Reilly. Just everything about him oozed the right type of leadership. So, I mean, whatever. I don't know if you can find a way to make some creative things where this team, you still keep your big horses in, but you go out and you find some pieces.

And it's easy for me because I'm not under contract anyway, so I'm not tampering with my thought processor. And so I'm just throwing out there some different ideas of how you can, I think, make this team just as good, but you're not going to ever be questioning at the end of the day where was their compete when it mattered the most. And not that they don't care, but everybody, it's like an off-crowded thing when you say this team,

we did everything possible to get tougher and grittier at the trade deadline. Now, what are we saying? Florida did. They out-muscled and out-toughed us in the first few games. So we didn't really do it. We did it. We did it to the best of our ability, and I thought he did a great job. But I loved watching the Charlie play, right?

And I love these guys finishing their checks. And Luke Shen. Okay. How good was Luke Shen? Okay. But for me, Luke Shen comes in, How good was Luke Shen? Okay. But for me, Luke Shen comes in, we make 850 or something. So here's a guy that comes home,

reinvents himself, and somewhere along the way, somewhere along the way, he decided that Connor Timmons was worth three years at $1.1 million. When he's in your nine hole in the press box, and now you're like money's so important where are we going to find the money to get luke shen back there's just some stuff that's just a little

baffling but bombers and i know they all wanted i mean it was so funny talking to chenna and and uh even simmer how much how pride i mean obviously still had a tough year with his his minutes and stuff and his relationship with Kiefer, but it's so incredibly, incredibly nice to hear these guys talk about how proud and to be a Toronto Maple Leaf in every aspect of the way. So then why right now is this team not thinking, if you're already a gazillionaire,

what would my legacy be if we could ever properly get this done and it's not it's not i'm taking a couple days to think about whether i still want to do this well it's interesting when you think about the the guys you're talking about that came in and provided that element of leadership and grit and whatever it's o'reilly it's achari it's shen it's all these guys from the outside who are now free agents on the other hand the team didn't score enough feuds right seven straight games or they only scored twice

you know it's hard to I mean it's hard to imagine right when you think about it because they've got guys that notoriously can do that but I mean there's I mean obviously this not nice kid is found money like this kid's going to be an exceptional hockey player, right, who you probably got to think is going to – you don't want to overdo it,

as we tend to do, but he's probably got to be a 15 to 20 guy at his age, like by automatic. Oh, yeah. With who he's going to play, and that could be very low. But, I mean, there's other players out there. I mean, and I know the kind of your knee lander head stuff, but there's some things around where you can don't create all this. You're not going to take that, you know,

you're not going to take that skill set, incredible skill set that they have away, but you're also going to allow them to produce more and produce goals. There's goals out there. And this is the part that really sucks for me because I'm an English major. When I sit here at night with my glass of wine trying to work the cap and I don't have anybody from the office with me. But I am looking, I am looking at stuff that says, if I'm right, is that, and that's the one thing I did catch from Kyle the other day too, is it sounds like, I think there's a lot more cap space than is being publicly let known.

And just the sense that if, you know, if you do buy out, buy out Murray, I believe you get a 4 million or 4-3 cap, like off your cap next year. If you, I believe respectfully, because I love this kid to death, that if Jake Muzzin comes in and goes on LTIR because he's not going to play again, that I believe there's another $6 million that you have to spend. So it's not just like dropping a bucket, and I'm not saying you turn around and throw it all at Bunting or whoever it is, but I think there's some collective ways to do it.

And the other area that I would address, Radar, is somehow whether I had to do it. I know I probably other area that i would address right is somehow whether i had to do it i know i probably said this name jaborni a thousand times i would be overpaying for nick delorier or somebody in a heartbeat that comes in and god bless simmer but if you don't think he can do it anymore someone that doesn't allow your stars to have to take face washes and crap and shenner does it And Shanner does it. Shanner does it, but Shanner is not a fighter. He'll do it,

but he's not going to hurt anybody. He's just going to do it because he's a great teammate. I'd bring somebody in that just gets people a little bit worried about talking to them all, touching our multimillionaires. Particularly in the regular season. The only problem is if, if you're a chari and you want to raise off your 1.5,

because you led the playoffs in hits. By 20. Chances are he might eat up that money. How old is he, though? 31, yeah. Yeah, but there's still some interesting ways to move it around. Now, again, I get a little bit, and I remember we're talking about it, but I don't know why they need to sign Yarncroft for so long, for so long,

but that's everybody for every, you know, bottom line is I think that Kyle Dubas' good decisions have far outweighed his bad decisions. And that's certainly what you want out of your general manager. And he's made some tough ones, but I mean, I still think you can, you can grease this team up by not spending big, big money and spread it around a little more and, and just have a little bit more playoff ready roster than a team that we are

going to once again, get so excited about 140 points, whatever the regular season. And then it just seems to change when it's time to strap them on for real. If you're, if you're saving 4.3 on the cap with Matt Murray, are you okay? Just hand him, hand it over to Samsonov and go wall Samsonov Samsonov next year. I wouldn't go that high with Samsonov. I think he's, he's left him. I'm sure Pat Morris wouldn't want to hear that.

But I think he enjoys it here enough that it doesn't require that big a bump. 3.5? 3.7? Wouldn't hurt me. Wouldn't hurt for a couple years. Just to say we are a great spot. We love you here. You're going to be working with us. I really love the Wall Kid.

But prove it to us. Just prove we can stay healthy. Just prove we can stay healthy before we give you the money. Might have to give him an extra $100 just to deal with the traffic. Did you hear his comment? He doesn't like it? In his defense, it sucks and it's going to get worse. You like Toronto?

No, I hate the traffic. Didn't I say that too? He was here for like a day and he was like, oh. Oh, my God. Well, they should go down. Well, they can't go down late. Here's a free app of ways.

Figure it out. Figure it out, buddy. Hey, Futes, thanks for doing this, man. I appreciate it, guys. Have a great one. Thanks, bud. Appreciate it. Mike Fute. Anything, uh, Sammy? Dowdy for Tavares.

Yeah, then I looked at Dowdy's contract. 11. Yeah, for like 100 more years. No, two. No. Three? 27, 28, 11. Fuse got us excited for nothing.

But I do like the idea of what he's getting at, where you have a problem contract contract we have a kind of a problem contract let's yeah a culture shift kind of trade where you listen everything take someone else's problem that may work i am now a believer that there's no such thing as an unmovable contract yeah something can be done yeah you can take a first round or some pretty big grenades. The only thing is they've spent a ton of assets getting out of those contracts. And look at Seth Jarvis. God, he would have looked good as a leaf

if it didn't cost you getting rid of Patrick Marlowe. Yeah, that's what happens. You've been all in for 100 straight years. Yeah, Seth Jarvis, he can move can move okay we need another break sammy yeah let's hit a break okay daryl ray dallas stars tv analyst we'll talk about the final four and what's making this magic run for the dallas stars here yeah it's a goaltending is it jamie ben ty Sagan? More with Daryl Ray after the break. You're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born. Discussing the biggest stories that matter to Toronto sports fans.

The Fan Morning Show with Eilish Forfar and Justin Cuthbert. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. My mic is off. I could hear you for what it's worth. Did you? I was about to say there's more than hockey life

after the Toronto Maple Leafs. And there is. Including a conference final starting Thursday night. Panthers and the Hurricanes and then the Dallas Stars and Vegas go at it Friday, 8.30 p.m. Eastern. Let's welcome in Daryl Ray and get in on that action. Razor, what's going on, buddy? Nice run so far out of the Dallas Stars,

and you've been along for the ride. Yeah, I mean, they have lived up to some expectations, and I had to win a couple of series different ways. And, you know, their power play was a weapon for them against, at times, an undisciplined Minnesota Wild squad. And then they got into a track meet with the Kraken, who were extremely impressive, and had to beat them as a team. Can't beat the Kraken, who were extremely impressive, and had to beat them as a team.

You can't beat that Kraken team individually. You've got to match all the team speed and teamwork and connectiveness that they had, and it took the Stars seven games to dispatch them. So they're relatively healthy, and they have lots of great pieces that make them a tough team to bounce out of this tournament that's down to four now is it we're looking at uh this toronto maple leaves team that's out and they had some shortcomings from their elite players the

dallas stars um have got some unbelievable play from rupe Hintz, 19 points in 13 games, including nine goals. Tell us about the top guys on Dallas, you know, their expectations versus how they've performed in terms of getting them through two rounds here. Yeah. Justin, are you guys still in the Leafs postgame show? Is that still going on out there? Sorry about that.

It's into week three. Send food. Look, Hintz right now has to be, you know, certainly one of the frontrunners for MVP of the playoffs. He'd be a consmite candidate. He, you know, his ability to gallop and create, but at the same time, he's a line driver for that line, and they're as good as any line in the league with Joe Pavelski on right wing

and Jason Robertson on left. But Ropey is kind of the one that makes it go, kills penalties. He's a big dude. You know, he's 6'3", 220. Like I mentioned, can fly. I don't think he gets anywhere near the recognition that he deserves. And maybe it takes something like this to get that in North America through the media.

And one of the things that's hampered him a little bit in that regard and would help, obviously, last night, he scores the first goal of the game in very rope hints fashion he he's missed or he's been injured in these in these game sevens that the stars have played he couldn't go in calgary last year and he and he's such a difference maker uh you witness him every night i know pete de boers talked about how he should be included in selkie conversations, and he probably deserves some of that. But he's just such a well-rounded player, and it's difficult, I think, for a lot of teams to match up with him

because of the combination of size and speed. You mentioned Ropey. You mentioned Robertson. We know what Ottinger's meant to them. We know what a stud defenseman they have in Miro Haskinen. Yet last time I checked, at least the last few years, the face of the franchise kind of belonged to Ben and Sagan, and that's what the salary said. But that's not the case anymore,

or they are playing like those type of guys or they've comfortably fit into good supporting guys yeah no there's been a you're right kipper there's been a shift and it's a great thing about the playoffs nobody really talks about salaries and contracts it's just what have you done today yesterday what are you going to do tomorrow in these series? And, you know, Tyler Sagan last night in game seven, that might've been the best playoff game I've seen him play for the Stars. And Jamie has run our written shotgun

with that amazing precocious kid, Wyatt Johnston, all season, right from training camp. And, you know, the sort of style and the four-line approach that DeBoer has brought in here has allowed those guys to maybe not feel like they have to shoulder so much of the burden. For Jamie, you know, he's had, I've kidded and called it the benessence,

and it really has been, it's been a I've kidded and called it the benessence, and it really has been. It's been a renaissance of his old game where, you know, he's a factor offensively. He's been great on the power play, but very responsible and just had a fantastic season. But fingers don't get pointed all the time because a lot of the offensive load carried by that top line and Jason Robertson, who had, you know, an MVP like season for the team,

he's been a little quiet in the playoffs, but he's getting a lot of extra attention with Tyler. He said to me a while ago that, you know, I'm, I'm essentially coming out of the, out of the three hole here right now. And, man, you're a pretty good team when Tyler Sagan is your third line center or right winger. And that's where they're at now. They attack with some depth and waves.

And I think it's really – and he's embraced it. You know, that's the other thing. You haven't had these veteran guys that are like, well, hold it. I need to be on the first power play unit. And I need this and I need this. It's like, what do you need from me? I'll do whatever it takes. And, and with that four line approach, they play with a tempo and energy that's difficult for teams to match. So I think it's worked beautifully.

Well, it's unbelievable how, how it has, you know, you've gotten success from a lot of these guys who've kind of been through it before send Ben and Sagan and Pavelski and whatever. I did want to ask you about Jason Robertson, just be having a bit of a slower playoffs compared to regular season, like 50 goals, 110 points this year. He's got two playoff goals. You know, again again we see that up here um with some of the stars it's tough to get to the middle right when you haven't been

through it and haven't really dealt with that playoff style before yeah yeah i mean it's been a little bit surprising just because he's been a young player that whenever there's a hurdle or something that is perceived as a weakness in his game, he overcomes it. I remember his first year, he was dazzling at home, but he could get shut down on the road, and he was challenged by the coaching staff and by Rick Bonas. You're going to have to be a guy that can play on the road and produce on the road, not just in one building all

year. And then he came out and he was, you know, okay, check that box. And teams, you know, obviously try to target them physically and he's been able to handle that and everything, but the playoffs has been a bit of a different animal and primarily it's just been, it's been power play points and not so much at even strength, but I mean, it was pretty bruising series against the wild and you know, he still factored in on the power play. And obviously that was a big part of the equation in that series.

And then you get into this again, this track meet with the crack. And, and, and that's not really his game he you know he he's not going to be able to uh you know zoom around the rink like some other guys but he's played crafty you know like and he's the thing I I appreciate about appreciate about him is that he never really cheats for offense like it might not be there and he was getting a lot of shots blocked in the playoffs and maybe that's a learning curve for him too because he went through that in past and said that he wanted to make sure he got more shots through led the team and in shots on goal this year along with every other category it felt like but he uh you know he's not a detriment in his own

zone he's not turning the puck over you know he's not a problem that way where some guys maybe start to cheat and cherry pick a little bit because they feel the heat that they're not producing that much and he hasn't been that way and again you know when everybody else is producing and and you're getting goals from you know three and four lines and every now and then your defense, and then he chips in on the power play and they're winning, it's not really that big of a problem. And it probably would scare the Dickens or worry the other three teams that are still alive more so

than the Stars have been successful even without him going off offensively. One more for me, Daryl, and we're talking to Daryl Ray, who covers the Dallas Stars as they get ready for their conference final against Vegas. Peter DeBoer, seems like he's done everything but win a Stanley Cup, but when it comes to taking teams deep or having playoff success, and certainly that 7-0 record in Game 7 is really standing out right now.

What has he been able to do with this group that's enabled success? He's opened them up offensively a little bit. You know, they were telling the story. I was talking with Jamie Benn early in the season. You'll appreciate this, Kipper, because, you know, Jamie's such a responsible guy, and they played a certain way here for a long time. And with this system, a lot of times the forwards

and wingers in particular are just going to blow the zone, like just take off. And it stretches things out, creates a little more space for them offensively up the ice to get out of their zone a lot quicker than they had before. But Jamie was feeling like, am I cheating the game here? Like he wasn't quite sure this was comfortable. And it was reinforced by Pete and Steve Spott and the coaching staff.

Yeah, no, this is the way we're going to go. And it's really helped Jamie's game. It's obviously helped their offensive side of the games. But it also isn't just slanted toward offense because they were a sharp team defensively. They didn't give up much. You saw it in this series against the Kraken when they really needed their defensive game

to step up and bow up. They did so on home ice in game five did it again last night where where they were just suffocating and it's that it's that swarm that's that aggressive attacking puck pressure defense that he's brought in that has helped that so it's really both directions and then you look at a game like last night and and he was trying to deflect any of his impact on at that point you know six and oh in game sevens to just you know players win game sevens not coaches but the reality of that is that they most of the game sevens that he's won now have been on home ice and you don't get home ice advantage in a game sevens that he's won now have been on home ice.

And you don't get home ice advantage in a game seven without a stupendous regular season. And that goes back to coaching and how you guided the team. And then on top of that, he's very good. It feels like just keeping things as they were in the regular season in these pressure situations come playoff time. So the normality when facing finality, I thought was in place again last night with it, where they just looked like the Dallas Stars usually look and didn't give any quarter to the Kraken

and won it in defining fashion with a couple of goals that are very Pete DeBoer system, like goals, and then just crush them defensively. The last one for me is just looking towards a preview of a conference final. How do you think this stars team stacks up against a Vegas team? That was very good.

Won their division in the regular season. Well, for me, they're, they're the best. And we're, I mean, obviously they're the best two teams in the conference right now

because they're playing in the conference final. But throughout the regular season, I really thought that they were the best two teams out here. Certainly the Stars, I know they didn't win the division as far as points in the regular season, but felt they were the best team. You know, Colorado was such a banged-up club for most of the year. And then out in the Pacific, you know, the Golden Knights' ability

to just get over injured netminders and just keep winning and injuries within their world and win enough was amazing. I think Bruce Cassidy did a terrific job in behind the bench there. Stars did go 3-0 against them in the regular season. Two of those went to overtime. I don't know that the Knights ever had their full team. You know, they were always debilitated a little bit in that regard. Jake Ottinger played great against them.

One of the best goalie games i i witnessed this season anywhere uh was a game in vegas ottinger and and brossois uh just matched each other for uh three periods in overtime it was it was terrific i think it'll be a great series uh they're they're pretty evenly matched it'll probably be a lot more uncivil than the series against the kraken was. There wasn't a lot of animosity in that one. This one could get nasty from time to time and the best team's going to come out of there.

Just your thoughts on Ottinger and what you just mentioned that you saw during the regular season. He's got to give Dallas the edge there in that. Is he the best goalie right now for you out of all four of them remaining? Well, Bob Robski's played

just out of his mind out there at times in the East. Yeah, I think we noticed it up here. Yeah. If I can recall, I think you might be right. Yeah, I think he came up with a saver too when it mattered. But Jake has shown the ability to shake off the odd vulnerability game

and bounce back with just, you know, shut down. What he does really well, these young goaltenders that have, I don't want to call it swagger because he's not really a cocky guy, but he has supreme confidence in himself. And I think it sort of emanates from the crease to the rest of the team. And when he's on, they play free in front of him, understanding he's going to mop some things up in behind. So, yeah, I mean, it's a short sample size.

He's only played in three series in his young career that's in its infancy but uh he he's showed out well obviously and uh the i i go back to the golden knights whoever that whoever's healthy they just throw a net and he plays out of his mind so uh they they've gotten a lot of mileage out of a lot of net miners, like a stable over there on their side. And Ottinger, he's going to have to be – he's probably going to get challenged a little more in and around his net. They go pretty hard to the puddle.

And he'll have to be a difference maker in this series, proving that he's done it on a heavy workload during the regular season and then here in the playoffs where he was great as the series went on against the Wild, almost perfect in game seven against the Kraken and now a new challenge against the Golden Knights.

Razor, enjoy covering this conference final and thanks for making time for us. You bet, Kipper congrats on the book justin yeah thanks so much thanks for coming on today we appreciate it all you bet thanks thanks and yeah i had a book too but you know you don't have to mention that that's okay all right it's called undrafted and it's very good i read it that's how i'm feeling right now undrafted sorry buddy we'll pick you up the rest of the way here we got 20 minutes all right i'm in for that um you like dallas i'd be nice to talk about i'd like dallas since the bubble

wouldn't it be great to just have the leaves be playing in this round and we talk about the leaves god it's funny how like everything shifts positive you know like they win that game seven two to one and now it's like segan's been good pavelski's been helpful like all this stuff you know they're instead of ro of Robertson only has two goals. God, I love that Wyatt Johnson goal last night. That was cheeky. I've got canali ties at home older than Wyatt Johnson. That was better than my ties from winners.

Is he a teenager? He's very young. He just turned 20, like the day before the goal. Oh, my God. Picks it up from the goal line, pulls it to his backhand. Instead of going behind the net for a circle, tucks it short side. Old grooves there gave him a pretty good opportunity to do so, but you still got to pull it off.

Yeah, he held it tight and just started to cheat. Okay, again, I'm sorry, but that reverse HV? Yeah. Is that what they call it? VH. Reverse VH. Vertical horizontal pad. Just come on.

Just stand there and let it hit you. Don't overthink it. Look at the angle that he's at. Just stand. Because he missed a full junior season because of COVID, Wyatt Johnson. Wow. Yeah. So he played.

Missed a full season at 20 years old. He played 1920 and then played 2021 and he scored a lot. Even Bobrovsky. Go back and watch where Willie Nylander is when he goes short side on it to send the game into overtime. Go watch. He's like a foot off the goal line. He's not even close to stopping that shot.

Like, what are you doing well this is a thing you know and part of it i thought was because the leafs constantly took it behind the net rather than trying to cut in or make a shot you know he just kind of got used to being like you're 100 right behind that he just brought it just assumed yeah so and that was the start sammy of the demise of bobrovsky and now he's gonna be terrible that would be awful for an out i could really see him punches in 880 or something hard here i'll be surprised if his game falls off he just looks so structurally sound right now. We're taking a week off. Carolina's on Freddie Anderson right now, so you either get to watch Freddie Anderson go win a cup,

or you get to watch Bobrovsky go all the way after beating the Leafs. Delightful. Delightful. That's a mini puke in your mouth moment. I'm forcing you to watch, eh? Oh, we got to. Like Clockwork Orange. Oh, we're still watching hockey after this?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I will, you know, I always had a tough time watching, like, the next hockey game after the Leafs got put out. Especially the team that knocked them out. Yeah. That's a tough one. I remember that in the bubble after the Leafs got put out, the next game that Columbus played was against Tampa, and it went to five overtimes.

I remember watching the whole thing and being like, that was a lot hockey but you know what's so hard i think is like when you watch a team in a full series you grow to hate certain opponents and know their tendencies so well right like by the end of it you're like oh goodest like you're familiar with them like trying to watch that dallas seattle series i'm like what are the storylines who's doing what well you know it takes a while to re-immerse. You're not emotionally attached to it. You'll get there. You just got to commit from game one. Just watch a couple games and then you're right back in it.

You'll get there. By the way, Razor says go to the puddle, which I've never heard as an expression. Go to the puddle? They go to the puddle a little harder than Seattle. Leafs could have gone to the puddle a little harder. They could have spent some time in the puddle. Blashing around in there. Anyway, liked it. Okay. Because you brought me up to the puddle. They could have spent some time in the puddle. Blashing around in there. Anyway, liked it. Okay.

Because you brought me up to Gudis, I just want to go back to Mike Fuda, who we just had earlier on in the show about Luke Shen and bringing him back and what would you, how would you look at him

as a guy coming back? Is that a legitimate partner now for Morgan Riley next year? I'm watching. Doesn't Luke want to go back to Vancouver? Isn't that what we've all heard? I don't know. Let's just assume we don't know. I made that up.

You are the GM because right now I'm not sure they have one. Okay. Do you offer him something that uh is attractive enough where you could spot duty him in it can be a a five six and some nights play with morgan riley i think feuts makes a great point that connor timmons contract kind of makes that that's a weird a non-option that's a weird con i think it's one of those ones where they're like we're gonna get at a head of you know his evan bouchard value he's going to be a pp guy for us he's gonna be worth four and we're gonna have no one one and then all of a sudden it's like

i sure could use that luke shen guy for a million bucks a year what did they give connor one three no one one two years this year one one yeah one way deals yeah and what was he the ninth defenseman Two years, 1-1. Two? Two years. This year, 1-1. One-way deals. Yeah, and what was he? The ninth defenseman? Yeah, he didn't even have a conversation about him in the playoffs. No, he was in Rekjavec or somewhere. He was not on this continent. Fuse is right.

That makes no sense. Yeah, I think it's the old. He played for the Sioux. May have outsmarted themselves here. You know what's interesting? I got a little stat for you guys here. It's in my article today. Kip, remember you're talking about how you don't think the Leafs are a great passing team.

And so that was something that I thought in the playoffs could have helped them if they passed the puck a little better. So I was just looking at some passing stats today. I helped you write an article. You did. You do. Every one I write comes from here the um so the four teams left in playoffs in terms of all their passing numbers so 16 teams in the playoffs carolina is 16th in d zone passing they don't pass it at all they just dump it out 16th in neutral zone passing and then they're fifth in the offensive zone. So they punt, punt, just get it in, get it out, and then they make plays there.

Of the four teams left in all three zones, no one is better than eighth in any zone, in any whatever, because playoffs are all punty, punty, punty hockey. The Leafs are the opposite, Kip. I cannot... Punt, punt, punt. Florida was unbelievable at it to the point where they were just, it must have been 30 feet in the air

dying at the top of the circles never icing. I know, it was like shuffleboard or curling or something. They just had great weight. So hold on though, hold on. So the Leafs are first in passing in the D zone. They tick, tick, tick instead of being punty. They're like 6th in the neutral zone and then they're 8th in the offensive zone. They tick, tick, tick. Instead of being punty, they're like sixth in the neutral zone.

And then they're eighth in the offensive zone. So they actually get worse at passing in the offensive zone, but they pass a ton in the D zone. Well, they love the three foot dangerous in front of the net breakout. Florida Panthers coincidentally lead the league in goals. Five seconds after a turnover, right? Because they punted out, hunted down down could we draw a parallel here carolina florida vegas dallas 16th 15th 8th and 9th d zone passes they just you go get it yeah shoot it and get it get it in but playoff hockey

is different than regular season hockey is my point and the leafs are very good at moving the puck out of their own end in the regular season. Not as good in the playoffs. That's fascinating. Yeah. And then, I don't know where you're, that's interesting stuff. That's right up there for me with useful or useless. Is that qualified as useful?

Yes. All right. I do, I find it very fascinating for sure. But, you know, my biggest beef was that at the center ice position, and I've gone through this before, but I'll just say it for now because it kind of fits the conversation that Tavares and. They got three shooters and a passer. He's a shooter.

And Matthews is a shooter. And there's just not enough uh playmakers outside of marner yeah and that's that hurt the the ball club yeah and to me it's not enough guys who can kind of make the right play you know that aren't locked into one thing that you know the the two-way sort of pass or shoot option and kucherov is like the prime guy and i know he got eliminated but it's like you have no idea what he's going to do. Disguising shots. Yeah.

And then adding that unpredictability in a split second. And it just seemed like once Matthews had the puck, you know it was coming. Going to take as many steps as he can and he's going to shoot the puck. Yeah. Yeah, that line in particular, they struggled getting close to the net. Anywho, I think we've done a thorough recap of that would you like to talk here what some of leaf station had to say yesterday when i asked for some questions sure well we didn't get into any of it yesterday we still have so much to get through okay well here's a good one that would pertain to some of the stuff we want to get to. From Zach Smith on Twitter.

The NHLer? No. Between Ryan O'Reilly, Achari, and Shen, which guy do you think is the most likely to resign? I think... Achari. Yeah, I think Achari too. Yeah.

But I don't know, like... What's Ryan O'Reilly's value? I have no idea. Is Achari right now, like, if I'm a Columbus Blue Jackets, I'd happily... I think what's going to happen to an Achari is going to be with Labushkin. He's going to Labushkin himself.

Someone's going to give him three years. No, someone's going to give him two and a half times two or three. And then what? Then you go to the Leafs and say, okay, we'll give you two at four half times two or three and then and then what then you go to the leafs and say okay we'll give you two at four and yarn crock them again i i already i love what you're using players as adjectives i don't think he skates what i'm trying to say i'm worried achari's skating is not going to age well and so i like the idea of having another yeah the other thing too is he's not a big guy he's like 5 11 yeah and he's thwomped for mario the body can break down if you're over 30 and you pound it like that 31

he threw 70 hits in playoffs in 11 games or something absolutely absurd and i'll tell you what another thing too is like these guys at this age go give them three years at uh two and a half and now it's like oh that's the last one i'm getting back's a little sore today yeah i got three years of doing this yeah i gotta pace myself yeah so you know the the most appealing is obviously ryan o'reilly but only if you get him for what he is going to do, not what he has done. You know, you don't want to pay him like a consmith winning captain.

Somebody was talking about what it would take Ryan O'Reilly to resign him, and they were mentioning, like, well, Eric Stahl made this towards the end, and Vinny LeCalvier made this before the end, and I'm like, no. O'Reilly's not there. No, he's not there. He's good.

He's really good and most teams would be signing him as a second line centerman at the worst. Three years times 4.5. Maybe the one that they were alluding to. I have it north of five. But just

for the Leafs though, if he wants to stay. But imagine if Bunting's going to get that pretty easy call though if he wants to stay but imagine like if Bunting's gonna get that like pretty easy call if he wants to stay yeah I think that that uh that that should be a 4-5 or 4-3 or 4-2 that might be part of if you trade one of the stars of the money that's freed up now goes to O'Reilly I don't get the sense that he had an amazing experience as a Toronto Maple Leaf. No? That's just my gut feeling.

He said all the right things. When you were talking about Eric Stahl, in 2016, 2017, he signed with the Wild for 3.5 for three seasons. Yes. And then scored one year 40 goals he scored 42 goals yeah wow that's good that's good value he was coming off that remember when he got traded he got traded to the rangers at the deadline and he was coming off that playoff run where he was no good for the rangers but then he went to um minnesota 28 42 22 Pretty good value on a $3.5 million contract. You're not getting Ryan O'Reilly at three and a half.

Here's the thing, too. Sorry, let me know when you're done with O'Reilly. I'll do Shen. Shen is, I want to sign him for the start of playoffs again. Like, 82-game regular season, you want him to play 16 a night with Morgan Riley? I don't know, boys. Yeah.

I don't think that makes you climb the standings. I think the exact amount that he played this year for the Leafs is the perfect. Can they trade for him again at the deadline? Yeah, exactly. And maybe. Maybe the answer is yes. Yeah. I don't know.

Tough to get all those guys. I can see everyone to me has let Kerfoot and Hall walk. If Dubas is back, you can't tell me Hall's not going to get an offer. How old's Luke? 32? 33?

Luke Shin, age 33. 33. Age 34 in November. Would you have Cap Friendly to ask if I asked you, what's the most he's ever made his whole career? Yep, I should be able to pull it up. Would he have made $4 million, $3.5 million?

Luke Shen? Oh, I thought you were talking total. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he signed that one with, remember he signed a long-term one with the Flyers? His career earnings of $25 million. Flyers, right? He signed a long one? Who's he made the most money with? Flyers. I don't think he hit a big-term one with the Flyers? His career earnings of $25 million. Flyers, right? He signed a long one? Who's he made the most money with?

Flyers. I don't think he hit a big contract with the Leafs. No. To Sam's point here, I got him a five-year deal signed by Brian Burke and the Leafs. That was $3.6 per year for five years. And then I think that's the big one, boys. Huh. I thought I remember one with the...

What would you... Would you not think that he's got two years in him at... 1-5? 2-2. 2-2. He's a little bit more than Lubushkin. He's... Justin Hall money?

Won Stanley Cup, and there's leadership quality there, and he's a quality guy i get two he can't get two times two on the open market i would happily give you two times two sure 100 the leaf should go it'll be there for him on the open market i think so yeah two million for two years for lucien you're doing that 10 times yeah that's connor timmons at one one yeah you're right you might ask for more he could get more i think he could like again if his value here's a tough buffalo uh columbus like you can't get two five and listen to this this is him in the playoffs this year those are bad teams he in his he played

11 games he had 54 hits he was on the ice for you know, 59% was a 59 XGF goals for 83% goals for percentage. And he was on the ice for just two five on five goals against two five on five goals against like he was legitimately good guys playing. I found him. I found his hockey IQ. Excellent. I couldn't believe how many times he went back on a puck under pressure and just held on to it until there was a play.

Really, really good. He said he wasn't surprised by his own play. He said that he's been working really hard to get better with age. Yeah. Love the guy. Bunting? Did you mention Bunting?

No, we can go where you want to go. I'll mention it. I'm getting the card. Getting ready to drive to the airport, boys. You're not paying him for it. No chance. No. See, I think there's value there, but not.

At four? No, well. What do you do for them in the playoffs? Listen. Do you get a goal? Yeah, he crushed Cherniak. There's teams out there that think that he can come in and maybe they can put him on their second line

and he can score 40 points, 45 points. There might be some teams thinking that that's worth $4 million. It is. It is worth $4 million. 50 points or 45 points on your second line. You knew how i felt too is that i never envisioned bunting being a top six guy yeah but he can't produce as a bottom six guy well then you didn't really find the right fit for him he's a third line winger who can move up and down the lineup on short spurts he doesn't really touch the puck

until it's around the net like he's not very involved in the d zone not very involved in the neutral zone and the ozone you know like he's just he has a good hockey iq with the puck in terms of creating offense and finishing chances which has value it was just never heavy enough for playoff hockey for me and i saw that right from the get-go. And I told you guys. I don't think it's a good allocation of Leafs dollars. Just the type of guys in the lineup, unfortunately, that

couldn't contribute for the Leafs was significant. I told you, you're not winning with Kerfoot in the playoffs. I gotta tell you. He's not running anybody over. I don't need everyone to, but he did not provide value

in any direction. Outside of a pretty amazing OT winner. And listen, I know it's sour, but we will look back on that fondly in four or five years. No. Yes. You won't. You won't because you don't look upon anything fondly.

Other than that unbelievable shirt you're wearing. That's the only thing you look fondly on. This is the sharpest 80s throwback, new, nice. Can I say that the chat was hot over this shirt? Oh yeah, they were like, Kipper's got

the retro golf shirt. I don't want you to take this the wrong way it's a little bit of a bowling shirt in a way that i like yeah you know like in sort of this i gotta feel that shirt that thing costs more than my weekly salary this is not a cheap it's so funny that you say that because um you know i was channel surfing and i stopped at the pga bowling national championship on Saturday. It got in your head? Yeah. It got in my head.

I couldn't turn it off. Here you go. I love bowling. In college, all the boys and I used to watch bowling all the time, mostly because we were skipping class and it was on TV during the day. But, God, bowling is a really, really impressive thing. Good social event. It's great.

Shout out my boy, Ron, who I think he has almost 10 perfect games. No. Yes. Swoo. Unbelievable. What's your best score ever? Oh, my God.

Probably like 180, 170. Have you ever shot 200? I stink, no. I've gone two a couple times. Really? I think the three of us might have a decent. 227, 235. Wow. Yeah, I've had, but I haven but i haven't you can roll the rock huh there's no there's you don't wear shirts like this without being

able to bowl if you're gonna there's that duck pin and then someone explained that you don't do it overhand i will say like amongst the greatest feelings in sports, like a swish, obviously, going bar down, hitting a home run, which I've never done, you know, like over a fence, I mean. Right. You know, bowling a perfect strike is one of the greatest feelings in sports. That's a dusty call. I don't agree with that. Are you kidding me? No.

It's not up there. Hitting a perfect strike, and then knowing it's going to be a strike, big Sally. Hit the X. I love that feeling. You're going to make a wonderful overweight middle-aged man. Still crusty at the Leafs.

Going to his bowling league to complain to his buddies. And then to quote my favorite movie, one of my favorite movies Shut up, Donnie. Shut the F up, Donnie. I thought I'd skip that for the show. Thank you. Thank you.

Big Lebowski. All-time. I won't even bring up any of the other points I have because we have more radio to do tomorrow. We got all week here, folks. We're going to give you our top 10 sports moments outside of hockey the rest of the week. What do you guys think? Just wait till Thursday when we're going hard on darts.

Lawn darts. 180! Also a sick event. Croquet? I'm not opposed. I mean, I'll go anywhere you want. Disc golf? I'll go anywhere you want to go, boys. Alright. We've solved nothing.

Again, our thanks to Gord Stelic, Leaf Nation pre and post, which isn't coming to a radio show near you anytime soon. Not for a bit. We'll wait September. Mike Feudal, also Daryl Ray. Thanks. We're back tomorrow.