Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs' Offseason, Camp Round-Up with GM Brad Treliving

Episode Date: September 24, 2025

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne are joined by Toronto Maple Leafs General Manager Brad Treliving (4:48) to share some thoughts on the offseason and the team heading into the 2025-26 season. The GM discusses the slow summer across the NHL, the ongoing search for a top-six forward, Easton Cowan's encouraging camp, the options in net in Joseph Woll's absence, Anthony Stolarz's contract negotiations, competition in the bottom-six, and Morgan Rielly's shape entering the year. Later, Nick and Justin regroup with Sam McKee to talk Jonathan Toews' return to NHL ice with the Winnipeg Jets, the new playoff salary cap rules, and the Leafs' biggest need for this season.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Come on in for the fastest hour in hockey. It's the real Kipper Endborn show Season 5. Nick Kippreos, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee, Jake the Snake Shultz, and Derek Brandeo. We are live on Sportsnet 590, The Fans, Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver, 960 in Calgary, Sportsnet Plus. and if you don't catch us live you can catch us on YouTube and Kipper reads all the comments so he used to he used to

when we were actually live on YouTube when we were live I'd have it on live and you'd follow the comments and there were some real good ones but there was a lot of comments on our first show I know around the Connor McDavid stuff a lot of people had opinion on YouTube and it's all welcomed

I love it. Right? That's why we do it. And the thumbs up. Remember we used to ask for thumbs up? Yeah. We can still ask YouTube for thumbs up. Sammy.

Just give an air thumbs up at home. Right? Jam-packed show. We got the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. In a few minutes, Brad Tree Living will join us. We'll ask him a ton of questions on what he expects this season. Ask him what he thought early off of a home game last night. where the Toronto Maple Leafs lost 3-2

in their first home exhibition game, which had a lot of familiar faces in that lineup as a shortened training camp, only a couple of games at home. Craig Brewby, building solid lineups that are pretty close to what we expect, I think, in October. Yeah, it was a good night up until the baseball also existed. Can I ask you, Kipper, you know,

We all watched the Leafs a little bit. But judging from the tone in the group text when I was trying not to look at my phone and I actually walked away from the TV multiple times because I couldn't watch the Yankees. I was too stressed. You were in on the Jays last night. Oh, yeah. Oh, no, no, no, no. No, it, um, yeah.

And some Jays watching going on. Oh, no, I was all over the Jays game. And then I, Sportsnet also had the Yankees. So it would be like flipping back and forth. I'm like calling for. double plays in the Yankee game. Please get us out of this inning and all of it. So it was fun.

It was a fun night of sports net watching last night. Yeah, I for one am stunned that the Chicago White Sox didn't get it done. I cannot believe that their job or closer came in and threw a pitch to the backstop on a full count. Your one pitch of ending this thing. Two strikes. And making all of us very happy. And you would have missed.

the Empire State Building with that pitch. And the pitch right before that, Bellinger just got a piece of it and fouled it up, fouled it back, and then it gets another pitch, full count, here we go. You was very confusing is the catcher didn't even touch it. No, I was gone. He was trying to throw that

through the backstop. Anyways. How, okay, we're going to get into hockey. I'm going to tonight, so I'm terrified. Oh, you're going tonight? I'm going tonight. I'm going to die. Yeah, yeah. One game here. Yeah. Just, we're up one game. The Toronto Blue Jays have never needed a win like they need a win tonight.

Magic numbers four. They're playing five more baseball games. The Yankees have baseball games. They're okay boys. They're okay. Red Sox throwing Garrett Crochet tonight, who is, I think, maybe the favorite for the American League, Cy Young. He's got a little sewn up. Pretty good.

Jays have Max Scherzer who gave up five runs. They're getting an out against Kansas City. And the Yankees are throwing Max Freed. at the White So another tough night So I can't wait, boy We need to be able to play I hate baseball In a few minutes we're going to welcome in

The general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs Brad Tree Living Sammy you got all your pent up questions over the summer ready for him I just put them on the line up there for you guys Yeah Yeah

Start of a closer relationship this year We're going to talk to the Leafs a bit more I'm excited about this I don't know. Yeah, you think so? I do. I do too. Yeah.

I do too. Okay. We're shaking a couple hands, greased a few wheels, Kip. Trying to get a couple of people on the show. All right. Get your questions ready for Austin and Willie and. By the way, this is year five. Still have never interviewed Austin Matthews in my career.

Never. No. But we'll get there. We'll get there. Well, in the meantime, we've got the general manager. We do. Brad Tree Lever. Let's welcome him in to the Real Kipper Endborn show.

Tree, thanks for doing this. And, you know, you must be real disappointed that the Jays are sucking all the oxygen out of the Toronto Maple Leaf room right about now. I mean, in all seriousness, are you watching from afar a little bit while you guys slowly start the season? Are you okay with that?

Oh, yeah. You got to keep the Jays going until January. No, it's been fun. I've been following them. I'm a baseball fan, so I've been got a chance to get down to the ballpark a couple of times over the course of the summer, but it's exciting. It's getting to the exciting part of the year, and so we've got our Jay's hats on for sure. Plenty of questions to get into with your hockey club, but I just want to ask you a general question right now, Brad, in terms of, you know, your general manager duties throughout the summer. there must be 85, 90% teams right now

that aren't overly pleased completely with their hockey club in terms of the visions that they have moving forward. I would put you included. And yet it was such a quiet summer of the lack of trades or even what I think maybe the lack of communication between teams to move bodies. And do you have a reason for that? a new CBA, is the cap going up, or is it just

team's not willing to pull the trigger just yet? Like, was it as quiet as I think it was? Yeah, it was, Nick. It was, in terms of just the, you know, the movement, I think there's always, there's always communication. There's always, you know, lots of activity, not necessarily lots of achievement. And the reason why is a couple theories is I don't necessarily think it has anything to the CBA other than you had, you know, number one, financially you had a cap that increased significantly for the first time in, you know, a long time.

So there wasn't, in most cases, there wasn't any real financial pressure, right, where we've seen in the past where a team has either got financial pressure. here with with contracts that are due now or where they see a year from now where they've got to get ahead of it excuse me and make some room you know nobody was looking to throw a there wasn't somebody standing there and say I've got to throw two bodies over the you know over the over the over the boat here just to get under the cap so there that that was number one and and I think we were also in a you know an environment where I think everybody's trying to take a step you know, people weren't trying to get rid of players. They were looking for players. And, you know, so, you know, teams that are, you know, feel that they're in contention status are always looking to get better. Those teams that were, you know, coming through rebuilds or developing teams, you know, they're also looking to take a step.

So there just wasn't up until not, you know, to this stage, there hasn't been an availability of players. you're seeing more and more teams with the increase in cap space now teams signing their own guys so there wasn't even going back to free agency there wasn't a lot of you know there wasn't a whole lot of movement so I think for that reason you saw you know not as much activity on the trade on the trade front but though you know then you get into this into this time of the year and everybody's trying to get a little sense of what they've got in-house you know and and see who's, you know, everybody's, everybody, and you're right.

Everybody's, you're, you're always worried about, um, a spot or so on your team. And, and so those, those conversations begin to pick up now and, and you go from there. So, Tree, one thing, um, that you've referenced in some pressers and, and even are sort of alluding to here is, you know, you had wanted to add maybe another top six forward, um, to play perhaps alongside Matthews and Nyes. what do you see like playoffs when playoffs start on that right wing position what is the path to getting that solved to finding the answer you want alongside austin matthews well i think step one right now is seeing you know i know everybody's focused on that one spot and uh and and and and i get

it and and certainly we are um but you don't know where chemistry is going to come from right you don't know you don't know where you know who may have a match you can you can sit here and put it down on a piece of paper but um you know everybody you know everybody will have an opinion on it but until you get out in the ice you see who fits with who and some of it too is is sort of the job description right um we all know what the the prototypical top six four it looks like in terms of creating offense and those types of things but but sometimes it it needs a little bit of a different ingredient where there's a defensive player, somebody that can get in

on a forecheck can create you know, create loose bucks, create space, all those types of things. So I think for us, you know, we're not going to get ahead of ourselves and looking at the playoffs. We're looking at, you know, and it sounds like a motherhood statement, but we're just kind of looking at tomorrow, right?

Like we've got to go through camp here and see if there's chemistry with different guys that we have right now. And so that's, that's, that's the process, right? We, you, you, you, you, you, you know, chief and I'll talk every day. We talk with our staff in here of different ideas. You're, you're, you're looking internally.

You look externally. You know, it's easy to say, let's go get a top six forward. Well, who is that? What is the cost? So that's, that's really where we're focused at, Justin, is, is, okay, we've got, we've got our our group in camp, we're six days in or whatever we are, is there a fit? We've seen Machelli up there. Right now they've had one preseason game under their belts.

You know, Max, Max is just now back during the group. He was working through an injury the first few days. So and maybe there's some other, you know, maybe there's something else internally. So we're going to continue to look internally while also continue to look outside and see is there, Is there an availability for somebody that can come in and help us? You're watching and listening to the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs, Brad, Tree Living, a tree in our heyday, man, you had a lot of tomorrows in training camp,

two a day's, 10, 12 exhibition games, plenty of time to kind of sort things out. That's not the case anymore. And I'm just wondering with such a compressed schedule now for exhibition games and knowing that we're a little over a week, to game one. How much pressure does that put on someone like Easton Cowan who's trying to crack the opening lineup to Michelli

to show chemistry to, you know, some of the other guys who are challenging as well. Yeah, I think, Nick, you're right. The camps are different now. You go through them pretty quick. I think there's different stages of camp. Like, in the first three days are really sort of a grind. Those are the grind three days.

it's getting all the summer skate off and getting back to bumping a little bit and then you get into the next phase which is, you know, from the coach's perspective, a little bit more system play, probably a little bit more teaching. And now you start, there's competition within camp, right? We've got a lot of specifically talking up front.

We've got a lot of players here. So there's competition in where, like you said, where you can find chemistry, where you fit. As far as a young player, I think it's really important for them just to keep the picture small, right? Like you start, I know everybody and you guys do a great job of projecting stuff and opening day rosters and where is everybody going to fit. And how do you make a team?

Well, how do you make a team is you just stack a good day on top of a good day? So for a guy like Easton, his focus has got to be small of just getting ready and having it. Because for those guys, the window is small, right? The window is short. I always tell young players, don't dip your toe in because you're going to wake up and all of a sudden three or four days have gone by and, you know, people start making decisions.

So just start putting good day after good day worry about today. That's all you can really worry about. And then you recharge and get ready for tomorrow. And in Easton's case, I think he's had a really good camp thus far, right? He's, I know him and Craig have talked a lot leading up to camp, of just some of the things that he wants to see. He came in, he's, you know, like all these younger guys, do they're more mature, they're bigger, stronger as each year goes by.

He had another, you know, he had another summer behind him where he can work on his body. So, you know, it's his third camp. You feel more comfortable in the surroundings. It's not all new. So I think, you know, in particular two young guys that have caught my eye is Easton and Ben Danford's had a, you know, he played again last night, and I thought it quit. himself really well and for them it's just it's keeping the picture really small you know just worrying about tomorrow don't get don't get two weeks ahead of yourself or three weeks ahead of

yourself or start looking around at the numbers you can't control you that you can just control how well you play and I think both have acquitted themselves well there's some other uh action going on around your roster right now uh in terms of the joseph wool absence I know you know we're not going to get into what specifically is going on but I am curious how much of your time finding a solution there is being used? Is it something serious that you've got to make plans for? Or is this something that just kind of wait for him to come back? Yeah, I mean, we're going to give Joe some space.

And I appreciate that. Justin, excuse me, he's, you know, he's doing well. And for right now, Joe's not available to us. So we're, you know, we're there to support them and do everything we can. can and we certainly expect them back but at this point we don't know when that is so um it's like anything right uh an opportunity now presents itself for somebody else we think we've got good depth of the position um does that mean that we don't continue to look you know you're always looking you know whether right now if something didn't you know at every position you're looking at

ways to get better right you're always looking ways to get better is is there something out there that's better than what we have. That's sort of the question we ask our staff every day. We like this player out here. Okay, what does he do? Who's he better than in what we currently have? So we do that at all positions. Joe's situation, you know, has put us in a position where we look at it.

But we also want to give an opportunity to Dennis right now and Artie. And in Dennis's position, you know, this. was kind of, you know, his time for me, right? Like, he's had two years now over in North America. He's going into his third year here. He's shown, you know, he's been spectacular at times in the American Hockey League. He got a little taste last year. So he's had a really good camp thus far. He was real good last night. So there's an opportunity that opens up for him, right? and so now your job as a player is grab a hold of it and myself and our staff will continue to look

whether a player was taking a leave or not, is there other avenues to make us better? So we'll continue that process and we're hopeful and real optimistic that we'll see Joe before too long. Brad you may feel like you have depth but what you definitely don't have is experience now and this is an organization that we've seen third goalies

like a Matt Murray in the past to be a little bit of that cushion here so in your mind moving forward is there a cutoff date if in fact that you know you may not have Joseph Wall for two weeks, three weeks a month is there a month depending on what you see early is it a short leash for these guys to back up Stolars? I mean you just go day to day on this?

Yeah it's a little bit all the above Nick and that this is something that we talked a lot over the summer with before you know before any of this came up is you know if you go back a couple of years we had Marty Jones in here and really the feeling was to have more depth there

and to your point more experienced death going to last year you know Matt Murray came off double hip surgery in Dennis's case he'd only had one year under his belt there

we had two you know if we go back to last year at this time we had you know we were between Joseph and Anthony there's question marks there on the number of games that they've played and we wanted just to have a little bit of insurance blanket and you know at some point

you have to you know you have to have to have people swim a little bit you got to take the training wheels off and let them ride and you know that's that's that's certainly the case that we're looking at with Dennis right now now that's not to say we continue to look

and say is there is there other avenues to support us better here hopefully in the short term and we'll continue to look at that so you know Dennis has got an opportunity in front of them. Arters has got an opportunity in front of them and I'm hopeful

that they'll grab it and we'll continue to look at and review daily is there another option to best support the guys that we have right now and the group as a whole. And just to close the book on the goalie conversation, any update on a Stolar's contract? Is that

something you think will get looked after before the season starts? Well, I don't like to talk too much about contract negotiations other than we're We're certainly talking with their side, and I'm always optimistic until I'm not. So we'll continue to work away that. The good news is we've got Anthony.

You know, he's under contract for this year. He had a terrific year last year. We're hopeful that we can get something done, but we know that, you know, there's really no immediacy for it right now in the sense that, you know, he's under contract. And I'm expecting him to have another real good year. but we're certainly working away with it, and hopefully we can get to the finish line here before too long. If you don't get a deal, would you be happy with him coming up to you and saying,

I'm going to bet on myself and make you pay a lot more after a real successful year? Yeah, I mean, the great thing I've always found is, you know, for competitors, which Anthony is, they are very confident in their abilities, and I'm really, really confident in him. And, you know, we've had lots of communication, obviously, both with his agent and Anthony, myself. It's been open dialogue. I think we both know where each other side is.

And like I said, I'm confident that we can get something done, but I don't look at it as a dire situation at all. I look at it as, you know, he's poised to have a really good year. If we can get something that gets done before the season starts and give us some certainty there, that would be my preference but if not I know we're going to have a real motivated player to go out having a really good year Brad a couple more for you here

appreciate your time today I just want to ask you about a new look bottom six this year you bring in a couple of big bodies and Joshua and and Waugh and there's just a lot of bodies right now you guys have I would say more NHL caliber depth players

than I can recall the Leafs having what I guess What is that presenting for you as a general manager? Well, it gives you options right now. Justin, it gives you a little bit right now. Nick got banged up a little bit. He was off the ice for a few days. So he skated today.

We haven't seen, you know, that's the early part of camp, right? You're trying to get, you know, pairings together and interchange some people so we haven't necessarily seen you know Nick at full strength in in game action yet or you know where it all sits out we certainly have some ideas in mind that we've we've discussed over the summer but what I think it does is it gives us a little bit of options and two things it gives competition and lots of times in training camp as you two know you you can pencil in a lot of the names that where they're going to be and here I think there's some

real competition there and there's you know there's different styles of players. You know, we've got lefties, righties. We've got, you know, I like our depth in the middle of the ice. We've got guys that, you know, can play in a power play, can play in a penalty kill. So I think right now it's going to come down to number one performance. And then, as I said before, where we can see some fits.

I know, you know, Craig is intrigued by, you know, Dakota and Nick as a possible pairing there. You've got size. you've got forechecking ability and just in the brief little bit we've seen them in camp together they're two big men that play down you know that are hard to handle down low

you've got Nick that he's intriguing really intriguing for me with as a right-handed centerman and I think he's really excited about potential role here so you're right there's lots of there's lots of bodies here right now and as we talked about

we've got some young guys pushing as well so ultimately it comes down to performance. And we said to the team at the end of the day, this three weeks here, what we're looking for is ultimately who can help us win and, and, and who's going to, who's going to thrive in the role that we're going to need them to play. And, and that's really what this next, you know, or what are we, two weeks from, from the bullets flying for real. So that's, that's really where a lot of our focus is, is where does everybody fit, who do they fit best with and who's performing

who's performing best. Brad, I've got to ask you about the blue line because the depth has never been better, but the thought is still that Morgan has to be that guy that rises above all. How deep were the conversations all summer with Morgan in terms of

him finding that that's 60, 70 point kind of feel again for him? Yeah, I think Morgan and I excuse me, Morgan I had a good chat. you know, after the season. And I think it's just a real honest discussion.

And, you know, what we need is we don't need anything more than just we need the best version of Morgan. And what is really, what was really gave me a lot of confidences, you guys know him. He's, he's a proud guy. He's, you know, there's, he's just, he's a truthful guy, right? We all know when we can be better and he took it to heart and like I said I always laugh at the beginning of every training camp

because everybody's in the best shape of their life and everybody's either lost 10 pounds or gained 10 pounds and everybody looks good but Morgan really there was a fire to him this summer we're in the facility and I don't I don't remember many days that Morgan wasn't here

and so he really put a lot of work in his preparation this year and you're right we need it's not a secret we need the best version of Morgan I'm really confident that we're going to get it but but that it it doesn't just stop at Morgan you know I like our blue line we've got you know we start the year now with with with Carlo here who came late last year there is depth there it's an experience group and then you've got some some guys pushing from

underneath, which at the end of the day, to be a good organization, you need that at all positions. You need people pushing, and we certainly have that. So we talked about the six or seven guys or however many keep up here, but you're going to go through injuries. And we saw it last year, especially up front, we had a lot of injuries. But I think it can be a, you know, it can be a real stabilizer for our teams, our defense. but we need all of them contributing to the level they can and like I said to the first whatever we've been through here now five or six days

I've been happy with that I've been happy with some of the maybe the names that aren't talk so much that are pushing and they're eager to get a spot on the roster as well all right the biggest name of them all Austin Matthews I was telling the guys here yesterday I like the fact that he's given the media like a small window to mention Mitch

Martin a few more times. And then that's it. It's over. Your early impressions of your captain. Yeah, I mean, he sets the tone for us, you know, for when you're out, you know, to me it starts in his preparation. You know, Austin was back

here early in the summer and it's amazing when he shows up. It seems to be everybody else is here now then, too, so that he was here probably a month before we got going and And just the preparation he puts, I've said it since I got here, the preparation he puts towards his craft, the way he practices, the level, you know,

he sets the standard. And I think for any team, any organization, when your top guys are working the hardest and competing the hardest, that's the level that everybody else has to follow. So I've been, he's been, he's been dialed in since the start of camp. Yeah. And he's feeling good physically. He looks good. He looked dangerous last night. It's the first preseason game, first game in a number of months for a lot of guys. But he's been dialed in. And, you know, he's the tip of the spear for us and everybody else follows. So I've been real, real happy and glad just, number one, just he's healthy. He's ready and he looks good.

Brad, we really appreciate your time. Enjoy the ball game tonight. Oh, it's good to hear you guys back on the air. You can, that six-month hiatus is over time to get back to work. Let's see if you feel that way in about a month. Thanks, Trey, appreciate it. See you guys. Brad Trey Living, General Manager, the Toronto Police.

It's tough. So what do you want to pick a few things out of that? I go. We got a little time here. You want to go to break? What, we got all day. well i mean in my by all day i mean 20 minutes but uh what's your first we're all going to say it's the joseph wall thing goalie goalie goalie yeah that uh that felt like maybe he's not coming back

next week no no no no you don't guy doesn't go home and you know what i found kind of You know, I mean, listen, I want to, we all want to respect whatever's going on. We're not prying or anything, but we're just talking from a perspective that, you know, when a guy has a leave of absence and needs to go home for whatever reason or go somewhere, it's not to come back in three or four days. No. So I don't see him coming back for a month. Oh, really?

Think about it. Think about it. Like almost like Halloween. Throwing things out. October is September 24th. Listen, and when I say that, I'm talking about how long he'll be out of the lineup. Yeah, because he's got to ramp back up and he needs practice. He'll need 10 days.

Maybe go to the Marley's for a conditioning stand or something. So if he's gone for two weeks, he'll need another, he'll need close to another two weeks to get ready to play he's missed training camp okay i actually think that's a bigger deal he's missed training camp who asked swayman in boston what missing training camp does yeah go ask these guys it's it's a big deal for a goalie to miss training camp um so but i mean to his point which he said to you guys that likes the death well not even that like they do need and you brought it up with the murray thing and he brought up martin jones before they do need to have have a third sort of veteran goalie anyway with these two goalies i'll say kind of the same thing i've

said uh for a few jones if he's not looking right now hard he's not doing his job so you know it sounds like you and maybe tree perhaps sam don't think he'll to be can be a serviceable n-hill backup yet no okay no i don't and i thought he looked all right last night he's big but gives me john a big time don't disgust with some vibes yeah he's not the most third of a time. He's good last night. 82 games, long season.

We've seen teams bury themselves in October to mid-November. And it's not necessarily that you're going to, you know, it's, is the month? No, it matters.

I see your point. I see your point. It matters. Kill the Leaf season. No, but could it put them behind the eight ball, big time? It costs you a few losses.

I'm a big believer too in the snowball of like, Like, all right, we're good. Oh, hey, wow, the guys start to buy in more if you win early versus losing early and going, I don't like this coach is saying. It doesn't work. You need to get early wins. Asking Hildebee to come in now and hold the fort for a month. You might need him to play 40 times if it was a full season.

But he hasn't played 40 times in 10, 12 years. Now he's going to do it? No, I know. That's what I'm saying. Well, I'm even saying not Stollars, but the backup is going to matter in Toronto. It's not your typical back. You have a couple of bad starts. and he looks like he's not NHL ready.

You're going to be under the gun to get him out. You don't want to, you don't also want to bury the guy's development either. He needs to play. Totally. He doesn't need to sit on the bench for a month either here and watch Stolars. Play 10 to 12.

Play to 10 to 12. And that's another story, by the way, that if you push Stolars hard, what does it do to him? What does it do to his knees? What does it do to his health movement? forward they need a goaltender you're not you're not stoleers has never been a guy that

has played over 35 games how are we three shows in and we're like Leafs need a goal yes we are contending as a position of strength I need a goal I think I think they need to go look for some experience right now news out there

I hurt out there yeah I'd be tough sell in this market I know I know I know I know. The Morgan Raleigh thing, too. Anything interesting to that, heart to heart, at the end of the season? Him being in there early, seemingly in the best shape of his life season. Yeah, it's great. I like all that he said.

That sounds wonderful. Okay. I don't have any. So this whole time, he wasn't? Morgan struggled last season because he was not conditioned. That's what we saw. That's what we got out of. That's the negative spin on it.

yes okay so he's moving better he's gonna be a lot quicker that that would be great yep um and uh

Joshua and together as a pairing jumped out to me wah was out there doing fancy things today to go to Joshua is a massive guy yeah I liked him I actually just to not talk about

exhibition game too much yeah some players look pretty good for the leaves I know they lost and it doesn't matter Matthews looked dangerous Josh will look good Cowan looked really good Except in overtime

Wouldn't say there Pinto just I didn't know Pinto was that fast I honestly Matthews that was full on like Yeah I was like he's still On the tennis court

Playing in Arizona I think they're Outside of that It looks like he's moving good at least Well OEL made a nice pass Mitch Martyr type of pass That was slippery

Can he do that about 40 more times Probably not I think I don't think it was a nice goal and he's well even before that there's three plays on that shift where they I think him and machelli there was no chemistry early but you know they they do different things they got to figure each other out he can pass it that machelli yeah I don't know about it in his own zone but he can pass it you didn't love him I okay he's let's just get it on record here let's not come out with uh he's really really he's like small small he's like Nick Robertson size so he had two good years in Utah. He had a 45 and a 50 points... Technically they were in Phoenix, but then they moved to you. Okay, whatever, yeah.

You know what I'm saying. The franchise. Yes. He had two, and then he had a disaster last year. Yeah. We didn't have them, and now he's 32. He doesn't have...

Like he's 24, you know? Yeah. He's already had seized. No, no, no, for sure. But there's no reason why he can't get 40 out. or 50 apples again playing with Austin Matthews and Matthew Nyes. If he can't, that's not the spot where he should be.

Nyes looks huge too. We should break. And we'll talk about some non-lead stuff after the break. Okay, including Jonathan Taves. Yeah. In Winnipeg? Jet Talk. Jet's talk. And more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Everything you need to know about the Blue Jays,

Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program. I'm Caprails, Justin Boren, Stanley McKee. I do see McKee's mailbag on your little lineup. It's a big lineup. It's three full pages. So don't call it, you know, a little.

That's a lot of time and effort. It's no disco Dan, though. Oh, buddy, listen. Line up. I know. If you want that. going to pay me more um all right let's go to jet stock okay what do you want to talk about jonathan taves i saw him last night on my tv and it had to good to see i had to look up when he last played

a hockey game 2023 was it yes yeah that's a long time too long but happy for him full credit applause he's put in the work he's toured the globe he's a he's a hockey player man I'm excited he's back. Would you like to hear his thoughts on his game last night? Yes. Yeah, it's really exciting. So I'm good. It's not so good.

You know, it is what it is. I felt like I made some plays. And as the game went along, just relaxed a little bit. And, you know, I think the conditioning is going to come and the jump's going to come. And I think just the timing is going to be there, too. So you just got to keep working out, keep settling in your game and trusting in that, you know, at least I'm out there with some really good players. even more serious than when he last played. Oh, my.

That's in the running for the worst clip from the history. It's Dave, that's what you get. Oh, my God. And he played 18 and a half minute. Not there to entertain you. Good. He's an interesting contract. At some point, we're going to talk about...

37 years old. Yeah. And... Two-smill, base salary. And $5 million in performance bonuses. Games played, right? Not points. Games played and advancing in the playoffs.

250 per playoff round one, one mil for a cup. So, it was $2 million in playoffs success. James Myrtle from the Athletic wrote a pretty in-depth article. Very good. And yeah, it's good. I had started hearing about loopholes for capologists back in July, but he does a nice job of breaking down various ways for the new

for the new playoff salary cap so of course we're coming off a year where it didn't matter all the Sammy complaints over the last few years were supposed to be dead and buried about how Florida and Tampa Bay can go hide a player

and then bring them back in the playoffs I'm the only one to complain about that they could feel a lot of people feel like it was addressed through the new CBA that kicks in this particular clause this season

where the cap will remain in the playoffs for the 20 players dressed that night. Right. So that's exactly how fans can understand it. 20 players that are dressed that night, same salary cap. So that means you could have 15 million players in the press box. That's right. It doesn't matter.

You can be, but. So one of his points was that if you feel like you've got a six or seven or $8 million player underperformance, and you want to go replace him with another $8 million player in the playoffs you can as long as you make sure that that both of them aren't in the lineup at the same time. Yeah. That's going to be really interesting to see what teams do.

Because teams have salary cap space. The Leaves are a good example that this year, they'll likely accrue cap space leading up to the deadline. I've heard people say, well, that's not going to matter because you still need to be under the playoff cap. Well, they can still spend the space they accrue. And then you're going to have to make decisions in playoffs. who are we dressing to be under the cap tonight so the example in james's article is let's say you're

the leifs and you have two goals making about three million dollars if you wanted to put one of them in the press box and put hilda be on the bench you have another two million dollars worth of player you could add somewhere else you know so it's there's going to be ways around it the point is having cap space is still good there's still going to be ways to get better that's interesting And Jonathan Taves, his salary really this year is $7 million. It's $2 million on a base AAV and $5 million in these performance bonuses, but they don't count in the playoffs. They get, they could possibly be tagged on to the next season,

but not during the playoffs. So this may be the way to go for. for a lot of players moving forward is these performance bonuses that don't count until the following year. So what you're telling me is none of Taves's bonuses count towards the playoff cap. Correct.

Not for this season. So there's already... A way around it. Sick. Yeah. Yes. Awesome. So I think they'll change...

I'm sure Bill Zito. Bill Zito won't figure it out. Yeah. Sign them all. So I think after this year, they'll have to find some ways to plug some of these holes that are already showing themselves. but I was thinking like who could you sign now on a purely bonus laden deal that helps

like I was thinking for the lease I was like did patch already die he was so good for them in the playoffs where did he go didn't he retire did he just not come back no but I'm just saying like is there anyone out there that it's like okay we get a bonus laden deal for a guy that I loved hold on hold on not everybody not everybody can participate in a performance bonus kind of structure. I think it's limited. Only if they pay for the Florida Panthers? Only, I think only 35 years of age and older and then also entry level deals. So even if a guy like Connor Bedard hits $3 million in his entry level contract.

Yeah, still charge the entry level. In the playoffs, he'll be counted as 775,800 or whatever it is. And then the money that he earned will go on the following season. in as well. I'm sorry you at home have to know any of this. Yeah, you're right. You're right. It's such a crappy conversation.

It's probably not going to matter much, but we'll explain it closer to the deadline. Eventually, though, the big companies like MLSE or MSG in New York, they're not going to care like some other team that's collecting nickels and dimes out of their coach, right? So the ideal scenario is to have a really expensive goalie that's not playing well and have your younger, better goalie playing well. And you can put your $7 million goalie in the press box and have $7 million to play with. That's like the ideal scenario.

Totally. What is Merzleekins making Columbus? I don't even know. Let's say he makes $3 million, $4 million. And Jet Greaves is their guy at entry level. Yeah, you'd go with Jet Greaves and maybe you could put him in the press box. Merzleakin is in the press box. There are options.

I mean, that will be super fascinating. The back of goalie thing will come. But no, but not even just that. You're the third string goalie. If you're the Florida Panthers and they're already at 10. million dollars over the cap but they're you know whoever's on LTIR already right uh chucks and maybe come back

in December or whatever I saw they're 5 million over the cap yeah last year and they won the cup so like they're going to have to make a decision of a real player to come out of their lineup or teams like that's going to be a fun conversation to have like who you bring in who you bring out like the guy of Marchand's value would have had to come out of that lineup last year it's really

sure wish she could have come out last year holy crap it's the 2021 lightning the 2015 Blackhawks and last year's Panthers with the three teams that were well over the cap when they won the guy.

So quickly before, I said we didn't do a mailbag. I'm not even doing it. I saw, we just mentioned the Panthers. I saw a clip floating around the internet now. Like we're doing the Amazon thing again, right? There's a new one coming out.

They followed a bunch of stars. I saw a preview for it. And in the clip, of course, they have Sam Bennett screaming at the least bench being like, are you scared? Are you scared? Like, is it not hard enough to be a Toronto Maple Leaf

fan that now we're in the era where you have to live through the horrors of watching this on television every spring where it's like oh my god this sucks i am the it's the bane of my existence every year you're the idiot leaf fan you know you believed again ha ha ha and then every fall they're like how about you relive these horrors but with more access it's horrible it's horrible so now again we're going to have to go through it's like more clips of the least being scared and the Hamthers being better. Awesome. I got invited to the advanced screening of the Leafs episode against Florida for the new

Amazon's faceoff inside the NHL. Hey Amazon, love you? Skip. Oh, I'm watching. I think there was a lot of Brendan Chanahan that followed him around last year, too. God. All right. Sorry.

I get so upset about it. You okay? It just pisses me off. It's like Leaf fans, there's a butt of everyone's joke. And then it's like, here comes the documentary. about how big a losers you are again, every fall. Can you hear the Western Canada just laughing at Sammy right now? It's their dream.

It's everybody's dream. That's why they do it's because everybody loves to pile on. All you YouTube followers right now, give them me a thumbs up for that little rant. Great. Alex Petrangelo thinks he there's a chance that he won't rule out playing this season. So is that another guy that gets? gets to kind of

I don't know sneak in finagled into a cap I guess he's on LTIR so he wouldn't be counting against their cap right now right no but the moment he plays a playoff game his his I don't know what he makes eight and a half yeah nine

has to go on that that days that that roster's cap so I was just thinking of a way that Vegas is going to use it to cheat but no i don't think they can't i don't think they can not with that contract i don't think with that contract because he signed it before he was 35 it's a really surprising thing to read i was on the n hl website today and i thought he was yeah by all accounts done done right and now you're

just like oh maybe he's coming back maybe he's just feeling better i guess that's as much as is but you were pretty adamant that he wasn't going to be playing again like everybody was saying that he wasn't going to be playing again so maybe he's coming back well anytime soon anyways yeah Maybe in time for the Olympics, because you could use them on the back end there. No, I don't see that happening. McKee's mailbag. We've got to get one question in. Pontus Goldberg, what is the Leafs team's biggest need and how can it be addressed?

Goalie. Well, before the show, I would have said their first line right wing, and then after talking to the GM, and they'll think the goal. Gipper? Until Morgan proves me otherwise, point man on the power play. Would you boys rather to, this is from Ethan, would you boys rather take a Leafs Cup final loss to Marner?

Oh. Or the Jay's getting swept in the ALDS by the Yankees? There's just, I mean, that's the stupidest question ever. Of course getting swept by the Yankees. Like, not even close. Are you making it all the way to the Stanley Cup final and having to come in here after game five with the, and having to look this guy in the eye?

Take the Stanley Cup final. You haven't had one. for a gazillion years. I couldn't do that. That's two months. That's two months of playoff hockey. You'd rather die. Maybe if I didn't work with you, I would pick that option.

But I have to come in here and look at you. That's three rounds of you saying you won, Sammy. Gary Lawless and Mallard at that point, if they go that deep. People are scheduled changes here. Used to be Leafsour four to five, national five to six. We're kind of in flux. Jays will be moving back to our normal time at some time. We're not going to bump Barker and Blair here.

We don't know. It's called Blair and Barker. I know the two individuals on the show. I don't know when we'll go back, but eventually we will be back to four to six. But I don't know when. So there you go. We didn't change your time. We're not one hour.

We're two hours still. All right. As usual. That's fun, boys. Good show. We've solved nothing today on the real Kipper and Born show. But that doesn't mean that we won't try again tomorrow. So I ended the show yesterday thinking it was Thursday yesterday.

I'm like, you're like the White Sox pitcher trying to throw us straight. I haven't been to work in two and a half months, man. Two days. I got to pay attention to what day it is now. Welcome back now. I'm going to the Jay's game. Please win. Go, Jay's goal.

Go, Jay's goal. Please win. Please win. Sammy, bring him some luck, man. I'll be home watching. All right. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening.

We're back again tomorrow.