Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Offseason Landscape

Episode Date: June 19, 2023

Justin Bourne and Sam McKee open the show with a quick recap of the US Open and give their take on Rory Mcllroy once again coming up short at a major. The guys then discuss Brad Treliving being too cautious toward making new moves for the Leafs, what type of contract the Leafs should offer Auston Matthews and who could be potential trade target candidates. Next up, Gord Stellick from Leafs Nation joins the show to give his take on how the Leafs’ front office should handle relationship dynamics, the idea of Matthews signing for 8 years and what’s in store for Morgan Rielly and the D line. Finally, the guys wrap up the show with reactions to the Oliver Ekman-Larsson news and potential free-agent pick-ups.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Welcome back to Real Kipper and Bourne. Today, we don't have Kipper. We have my boy, Sammy McKee in studio, back from a lovely little vacation. How you doing, Sammy? Doing well. Doing well. Wouldn't say I'm refreshed, but...

No. No. I can't believe you keep... You know what's doing, Sammy? Doing well. Doing well. Wouldn't say I'm refreshed, but. No. No. I just want to be. You know what's great? Huh? Vacation. Yeah. Yeah.

High end. High end. Well, some people may say doing a one hour show a day and nothing else is borderline vacation. Sure. But just not thinking about any work. Like we have a sweet job. I love my job.

I legitimately love coming in here every single day i there's so many people in the world that would strive to be able to have that feeling about their job but when you get to time time off any job yeah not thinking about it i didn't think about you guys for one second it's not that's great i'm happy to hear that it's not like you sat in your backyard in a hammock though you went to went to Cabot. Cabot, for those of you out there who don't know, is one of two courses on my bucket list along with Augusta National. It's in Nova Scotia.

Yeah, Nova Scotia, Cape Breton, Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia, the spectacular part of the world. Right. God's country. And yeah. Right up against the ocean, cliffs. Yeah, played one, five, and eight courses in the country.

So number one, number five, number eight in three days. Yeah. Spectacular. I will say, quick story, 15 at Cabot Cliffs is probably the, like, maybe the most scenic hole on the number one course in the country. Up over a huge cliff right down towards the Atlantic Ocean. Just absolutely breathtaking. You hit a drive, it runs forever.

Anyways, I hit my approach shot. I'm walking up to the green. And the group in front of us, the guy goes, is that Sammy from Real Kipper and Born? No way. Yes. Come on. Yeah, it's Real Kipper and Born.

And he's like, hey, Leafs talk. I love the show. How is that even possible? I have, like, never been more embarrassed in my life. You don't handle that well no well i'm getting better yeah but you know i was like oh my god and my buddy neil and my other buddy keegan who lives out there works there i they did not let me hear the end of that for the rest of the time so of all the places you expect to get recognized 15th at

cabot cliffs was not really one of them i expected. That's cool. Yeah, and I'll shout out, I think his name was Tom, I think. What up, Tom? A young man named Tom who showed me out. He was there with his brother, I think, and his uncle. There was a Jack. There was a Mike. A Brian, I think. I think you're picking the world's most generic man names.

No, no, I think those are the names. I think if Tom's out there, you want to tweet me or text me, I think I got the names right. Tom, Jack, Brian, Mike. I met them all. That's great. Unbelievable. Well, awesome. Very jealous. Glad you got to tweet me or text me i think i got the names right tom jack brian mike i met met them all so that's unbelievable well awesome very jealous glad you got to do that before we turn the page from golf real quick awesome us open yesterday i know you got to talk about a little bit yeah i you know rory is just the least least clutch golfer of all time that is my take yeah

it's crazy too like make one of those great golf yeah something's got to go you know it's great golf finishes second a lot of love for that. That's not, I mean, he's not playing these majors that would get second. Yeah. God, he's so rich. Yeah. How much do you make from doing that? Like, it just gets, the rich get richer, but I don't, you just got to make a putt.

You know, I just, when he's standing over these things, I have no belief that he's going to make one. He's the opposite of Tiger. Yeah. Where it's like, when Tiger's standing over these putts in big moments in his prime, you're like, there is 0% chance this doesn't go in or like kisses the edge. And Rory's standing over it and you're like,

there's just no way. Would you compare him to the Leafs? In terms of how much Brent Gunning loves them? Yeah, probably. In terms of how close they are to success and can't quite get over the hump? No, no, no. It's another bad parallel.

Rory's one major. Yeah, but it's one of the Leafs. Fair enough. It's about bad parallel. Rory's won majors. Yeah, but that's one of the leaves. Fair enough. About the same amount of time ago. So no, it was spectacular. I went to the Argos game last night, watched a lot of the guys open on my phone. That to me is the epitome of doing stuff.

I would just be like, I was just on vacation. Why am I going to an Argos game? I had already committed, and I hate canceling. I have a really guilty conscience. I hate canceling on stuff, and I ended up a really guilty conscience. I hate canceling on stuff. And I ended up having an excellent time. It was a beautiful night. So there you go.

And Hey, support our Argos. Why not? And sorry, everybody in the chat. God, God, they hate golf.

It's funny. You think hockey and golf fans, you think there's a bit of crossover there. It is just universally lauded. Everyone is like, no golf, no golf. Sorry for my golf people out there all

right four minutes we got sammy back we got uh derek brandeo and jen rolnik on the other side of the glass hello we are going to be joined by our guy gordon stelic's gonna pop by later and just uh give us his thoughts on some of this stuff i thought because you weren't here last week a few things happened i know the stanley cup was handed out. Yeah. Which is pretty cool. Yeah, good for Vegas. They are an absolute wagon who deserve the Cup. Ten times better than Florida. And what did William Carlson say?

That they beat the crap out of them. They beat the poop out of them. He used the S. Yeah. It was just a, it wasn't even close. Is that what he said? Yeah. The whole wild bill was pretty wild.

He was on the hooch. Looked like me at Cabot Bar on Friday night. No shirt on. But no, he just, he didn't, he didn't, like, well, he was right. They, there's no contest. It wasn't. Outclassed. The last game was like, you know, we actually made the comparison before the series started

to Vancouver, Boston, that Stanley Cup final and how the Canucks would equal out at home and then get dummied on the road. And eventually it just felt like it was going to go the right way. And yeah, this series was no doubt. But God, I, I love Mark stone.

Yeah. Mark stone. That seems to be the consensus from this playoffs is not like Petrangelo is the guy you need or the goal. It's like, everyone's like Mark stone. You forget. Cause he kind of was,

he was hurt for a long time and they did weren't in the playoffs last year. And, but he was elite the whole way through and hat trick in a deciding game to win a cup that's that puts you in pretty rarefied air i just i love that guy one of my favorite guys to watch the three goals to me it's the first goal it's that he has that chance and he puts it away yeah like that's a huge game-changing thing it'd be interesting to go through the recent history of stanley cup champions and and find a guy like him because they exist on all these cup teams whether it's mark stone or it's uh ryan

o'reilly for st louis or it's yanni gourd for uh tampa bay like there's just always this gritty second line guy that just yeah lives those moments i know it's so true like and so sure wish the boys in blue had one well you know we're gonna talk a little bit about that today one of the things we'll discuss is the the unrestricted free agent list you know we're coming up on that now we're less than two weeks to free agency and i don't know do you want to do skip right to free agents or do you want to do the other leafs news and just get your take on the big can we talk about keith let's talk let's just do leaf stuff first. It is. I know

you're close. You know, you've worked with him closely and you tend to be more on the side. I have no idea if he likes or hates me at this point after two years of doing the show, but we were pals once. It is absolutely insane. He's coming back. Yeah. Like, I'm sorry. Like, I think he's a good coach. I think he's got a

really good future as a head coach in the National Hockey League. I do. And, you know, I think he's got a lot of learning to do in terms of some playoff stuff but regular season matters regular season record matters he's got an elite regular season record been really you know a good enough coach yeah but to not to bring him back to me is i can't believe they're gonna do it and this extension stuff and I know it was whispered about before the report on Friday or was it Thursday that they reported it. There's been a lot of stuff out there before this, but this kind of not solidifies it,

but nudges it towards it more being true. I really can't believe we're here, Barney. Because I would have done it after the Montreal series. And that's how many playoff failures ago? So many. It's like, my God. Four or three yeah to me it makes way more sense to bring back kyle dubas and get rid of sheldon keith yeah then the

other way around for sure you know the one thing and i've said this about sheldon in his situation is someone who believes he's a very good coach and a hard worker and i you know i don't think he's been the problem but a thing happens in the nhl where in all sports where you can do a good job a long time but eventually you can just guys get tired of hearing the same message or not even if they're not tight they may not be tired of hearing sheldon keith sometimes it's just nice to have a fresh start yes you know to have every player come into training camp where they're going to get a fresh evaluation and you don't come in with any preconceived notions or histories or scars of previous relationships.

And it's almost some freedom that comes with that. So while I believe him to be a very good coach, I, I find it hard not to agree with you that it's probably the best thing for the team, but they're not going to, he's coming back. Can you also,

it seems like the thing to me is that obviously true living is a very process oriented guy. And that's what they always talk about in terms of him. I'm worried about that. The thing to me is that obviously True Living is a very process-oriented guy, and that's what they always talk about in terms of him. I'm worried about that. They don't have time for process. But talking to every level of people and really getting to know people. He's not upstairs. He's downstairs.

The whole thing about him. Yeah. He obviously has had conversations with a lot of the most important people within this organization. For sure. He's talked with every one of those core four guys and Morgan Riley and probably Ryan O'Reilly. Yeah, assistant coaches, you know, trainers, probably everyone. important people within this organization. For sure. He's talked with every one of those core four guys and Morgan Riley and probably Ryan O'Reilly.

Assistant coaches, you know, trainers, probably everyone. He's probably talked to a lot of different people. He's been talking. He's been talking. And,

you know, I think you can look at this both ways. If the consensus is from all the people that he's talked to, that they do like Sheldon Keefe, they do have belief in Sheldon Keefe, that they want Sheldon Keefe back. Yeah. I think as a new general manager, hard to look at them and say you're dumb yeah and it's like you immediately especially with some of the contract stuff that's looming here in a you know

week and a half that snuck up on everybody yeah you don't want to maybe ruffle the feathers and you want to maybe keep the people that you're trying to sign to contracts somewhat happy if that's what they said. But on the other side of it, like, sometimes when you comfort is what we've talked about with this team, that there's way too much comfort. Yeah. Like, it's like everyone's really comfortable. Like, it's a lack of accountability that everybody just feels, you know, happy. It's the safe space.

Yeah, it's funny actually to look at the contrast there with Vegas where it's like, ah, patch ready. Probably more there's money anymore we're just gonna ship about to carolina literally nothing yeah paul stassny see you later oh the coach yeah yeah great records didn't get it done you're gone coach most beloved guy in the franchise's history which was not a very long one but mark andre flurry yeah gone yeah they tweeted you know his agent tweets a photo of him getting stabbed in the back yeah bang like Bang. And everyone in the room is like, I'm a better performer. That's me. So I don't think, you know, it's the copycat league thing.

It's like you don't have to be completely ruthless and cutthroat to win a Stanley Cup. No. But, you know, at some point you do have to make hard decisions in professional sports. Yeah. They've had too much Ruth. They really have. They could be a little more ruthless. A little too much Ruth.

For sure. It is. But I, so I understand Chaliving not wanting to come in and immediately just go scorched earth on the coaching staff and, you know, scare everybody and nuke the relationship that he's going to try to build because he wants to be here for a long time. He wants Matthews to be here for a long time. Nylander, Marner, Tavares, but I do find it pretty crazy

that he's going to stick with it. They must have had great meetings. He must like them. Yeah, and that's great. That's great that they like them. And again, I like them. I understand why people feel that way. But, you know, one of the things, if Kyle Dubas tried to do this,

what's going to happen here, bringing back the coach and the main part of the team, people would be up in arms. It would be apoplectic. Oh, my God. You're god you're like how could you do you need some sort of turmoil and so it doesn't feel like much has changed like yes there's what 10 roster spots to fill a lot of different and what's the salary cap space they have like it's a large million yeah like they got money and they need people so the team will look different regardless, but it does feel really strange. Like the worst case scenario would be to just, it felt like the worst case scenario

was going to be just bleeded into next year and see if this team can figure it out again. But do you, you know, I think the fact that everything is just kind of quiet, there's been no leaks about other than the Matthew stuff, which is very interesting we can get to that in a little bit here but like do you think a lot of this smoke and mirror stuff the core force coming back is there any chance that they're just trying to drive up the price a little bit on

somebody yeah you know like not unlike a boxer retiring or a ufc fighter retiring. It's like, yeah. Yeah, you know, the Stones final tour. Right. It's like Elton John's farewell tour. So, like, you know what, the draft, which is a big-time spot for big-time trades, like, could we be surprised and see somebody that you wouldn't expect to see go? Yeah. Like, could you find a taker for Tavares? Like, is there something that could happen here?

Yeah. I know, I know, I know. But, like, crazier things have happened. For sure. You know, what stands out to me is looking at someone's individual motivation in the position they're in and the guy that just got the job, if you're Brad Tree living. So you've got a couple of goals. You've just been hired as the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

The first goal is to win a Stanley Cup. Yes. Of course. And I'm sure it's his. Yep. But that also guarantees your longevity. You're going to be with the team a Stanley cup. Yes, of course. And I'm sure it's his, but that also guarantees your longevity. You're going to be with the team a long time. It buys you time.

You're a hero here, whatever he wants to win a Stanley cup, of course. But if they don't win the cup, the goal is to be here as long as possible. Yes. This is, you want to stay, you want to do things to stay employed.

Yes. I do things to stay employed every day. Every day. There's 32 of these jobs. They're tough to come by. And this is without, you know, catering to our Leafs audience too much. This is the best one. Yes.

This is the big job. This is the number one job. If you want to be the GM of the NHL and you say, which team would be the highest? Yes. You know. Number one. Whatever you want to say. It's the one. And the reason it is the number one is because the payoff is.

The potential is life altering forever. There's no, nothing close. No. Nothing compared. You're just like, here's the cottage in Muskoka. You want a cup? Yes. Like, there's no, nothing close. No, nothing compared. Just like, here's a cottage in Muskoka. You want a cup? Like they're,

they're going to give him everything. Yes. So I can't help, but feel like the best thing that you can do to be in a job as long as possible is to play it slow. It's to be like, well, we're going to feel it out.

We're going to go into the year. We're going to keep it. We'll make little tinkers and, you know, and then four years later you go, we're going to blow it up. Then people go, Oh, you got to see this rebuild through. Like, yeah, there's no incentive as the new coach to be there to the new GM to be like

fired the coach, traded a superstar, whole new team, you know, like uproot the whole thing. And all of a sudden the team's at 88 point team next year. And it's like, well, you're done in two years. Yeah. One or two. So I excellent point. I fear my fear is that he's going to be careful

out of self-preservation. I think that's something that I haven't heard anyone say, and it's something that, did that just come to you right now? Because it's really scarily true. Yeah, I don't know. I've kind of felt it about, since nothing has happened since.

Yeah, there's just been no, other than Shane Doan coming in. Yeah. There's been nothing. But I could see, like there's a surprise in store yeah but like what are you gonna the thing is you don't have any players under contract to trade really right no no there's no like uh yarn croc deal where you get back something that really helps you out a ton i'm looking at the guys under contract. Are you trading Austin Matthews? Yeah, no.

John Tavares? No. Mitchell Murn? You got the two. You got Mitch and Willie. Callie Yarncroft? No. Sam Lafferty?

Can't. And Matthew Nyes? Yeah. End of list of people under contract. That's who the Leafs have. So it's crazy. It's crazy. It's actually even tough to evaluate what this team would look like. So I guess if you're tree living, that's your point.

You're like, I can build a whole new thing here without trading those guys what what oh kenya is the question we'll ask gordo this too but what direction do you want them to go in because it feels like we're getting back to this stupid conversation but like the core is the core yeah and everybody that comes in here eventually just kind of turn like they kind of play the similar way and like they don't yeah are you want you change the identity of your team when you go into playoff series if it's still those guys playing 25 at night it's like it's still the same team so like but they've tried the tough bottom six yeah this year they've tried the veteran bottom six they've tried it looked better yeah they tried the speed bottom six yeah this year they've tried the veteran bottom six they've tried it

looked better yeah they tried the speedy you know analytics bottom six they've tried it all really yeah and it's always been the same result so at some point the definition of insanity mr born yeah it's one of those things where one of your buddies is in their like 10th bad relationship in a row. And you're like, I got bad news, man. That's. Yeah. It might not be the partner. Yeah. Yeah.

And so it is going to be interesting, but so there was the news that, um, you know, Friedman just thinks that we played the clip last week that, um, Matthews is going to sign here that he wants to, and that the team is pushing for eight years, which of course they are. Would it shock you the team is pushing for eight years, which, of course, they are.

Would it shock you to see him sign for eight years? Oh, yeah. Yeah. For sure. I'd be so pleasantly surprised, and I would take back everything I've said about him. I guess depending on the number. You wouldn't take it back?

No, I wouldn't. Oh, really? Eight years, $14 million? Yeah. What if it's $15? Okay. The cap's going to go up. Like, eight years, you know, it's a ton of money. He's going to play for the Leafs at. Like, eight years, you know, it's a ton of money.

He's going to play for the Leafs at that point, which is nice. Honestly, it's a ton of money, no question. Yeah. But it shows a commitment to the franchise and that you care about the franchise and you care about winning and you care about the history. Yeah. And you care. You're not looking to, like, middle it to get to more money. Yeah.

You're getting an obscene amount of money already. Three feels a little like, uh, yeah. Like I understand like even five again is totally fine. Yeah. But anything under five, I'm like,

I, yeah, it's a, I'm starting to get a little like perturbed about like your intentions. Right. But to me, an eight year contract extension, if it's 15,

I'll be like, Oh, it's a little bit of a collar tugger, but I would still be happy. And I think that would be, there's no better way that Brad Treliving can, like the way he can get off on the right foot as the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs

is getting Austin Matthews on an eight-year contract extension. If he parades in here with a Matthews eight times 13 something, I mean, it'll just be like, okay. He will be universally loved immediately. Yeah, that'll buy him a lot of grace on not trading Willie and Mitch. I'm sure he knows that. Yeah. But to me, I think Willie,

if you can sign Willie to us and get what you get for trading Marner, if you sign Willie and... Yeah. It's going to go the other way. They're going to do nothing before July 1st, so then it could only be Willie on a 10-team list. I don't know if Carolina would be on that or not. They're going to trade Willie?

That's kind of, that's what I think is going to happen. If one of the two guys go, I think it's zero of them, or it's Willie. God, one of the other guys better step up in the playoffs, because Willie was... Real good. Very... I mean, he had some bad ones. Well, that's the thing with the dogs but in the playoffs like i'll take a guy who's awesome awful awesome awful like everyone else can be

consistent you do like in that florida game two where they should have won and they pumped the panthers willie was the guy and game five he scored the tying goal back on the ice yeah yeah so i would be very hesitant like i this has finally gotten to the point where we've gotten to the, what year did he come into the league? This is the seventh straight offseason? 16 or 15. Eighth straight offseason where we're like, trade Willie Neal. Yeah, now it's like, I don't know.

And now they're going to. Yeah, it's like the year I finally don't want them to. It's like, they're going to do it? You know, his skating has gone to another level. His strength, his power. You can't knock him down. You just can't knock him down. I don't know how quickly we're going to Gord,

but we do have a free agent, you know, some options to make the team better around them and a little bit of money to work with. Anyone to you that you're like, that guy needs to be here. Okay. All right. Oh, sorry.

I didn't mean to say that. Yeah, we're talking to the producer there. We're waiting on Gordo. I'm looking down this list. Boy, it's not good. Not great. There's a couple, though. Some people are going to get rich that are mid.

I don't know where Kipper's at. Michael Munting? I know somebody's going to pay Patrick Kane way too much money. I'm curious about that. Coming off a surgery, what he gets. Vladimir Tarasenko is going to get way too much money. I'm curious about that. Coming off a surgery, what he gets. Vladimir Tarasenko is going to get way too much money. No question. Yeah.

They're doing years old. I would love to have Ryan O'Reilly back. Yeah. I would. I guess for me, that's a big time contract dependent thing. If he wants to come here and sign a three times four, I would be ecstatic. Four times four, I'm nervous. Four times five, you know, itstatic. Four times four, I'm nervous. Four times five, oh.

You know, it gets a little. You're right. It is contract dependent, but I just love the qualities that that guy brings. For sure. And in the postseason, like he was the guy in front of the net in big moments who didn't get a point.

I'm sure he was playing with a broken fibula. Like he, like broken hand. Like every time he's taking off his glove he had like his five fingers taped together somehow literal bowling ball on four of his fingers he was banged up big time and that's obviously a concern with him because he's getting older but i just i love the way that guy talked i love the intangibles i love the way people talk about him and if he's here for a longer period of time you would think he'd be able to take on some of the leading 100 you know which would be really nice feel like more of a part of it and so i know

your boy here is the complete opposite in terms of public perception tyler bertuzzi so tyler bertuzzi not necessarily yeah he's a past he's an agitator guy yeah you know he's the only guy didn't get the shot ever this guy you know whatever so like he you know a bit of a reputation as a grease ball but boy the leafs could use greasy goals and he's the type of guy who will you know be in front of the net fall on your goalie put a couple of pucks in look pretty good with boston wouldn't mind that guy playing with a good team the uh the other side of that is that type of player, guys who can contribute while having the grease factor. You know, Ivan Barbashev is another guy who, you know, for Vegas was an absolute steal.

We have Gord. Oh, Barbashev was excellent. Yeah. And that was the guy that we talked about on this show was the guy that they could look into. Remember when we were talking about. He's going to get six million a year. Oh, yeah.

I mean, those guys that have the big playoffs yeah in their ufa years they're just oh my god oh my god yeah bernardo pisani anyways gordo we are joined by gourd stellix electricity himself how you doing today gourd hey justin sammy i'm doing great i'm doing great listening to you a boy oh boy free agents coming to the rescues again david clark clarkson mark two oh what do we think oh don't do that to us well no he but he but gordo's right he had the big one with the devils right before the leaf signed him right was that bolin too was he no because yeah david bolin came into trade and then jonathan bernier came and they were going that was going to catapult the leafs to not blow a four one game

seven yeah yeah yeah yeah and here we are all these years ago. Poor Clarkson. He probably would have been a great leaf if he was like, you know, behind seven names and not like the guy at that point. I think it all went bad for him when he got suspended in the preseason for jumping off the bench and never got on track after that. It took him two months to score his first goal. Remember that? Yeah.

But that was still weird. I couldn't, like, everyone knew the rule. And I know he's trying to show that he's a great teammate. And hey, the guy had a horrible injury. So I'm all but the point being is you don't want to get that player like that. You're talking about. Oh, wow. OK.

I mean, Jason Blake, another example. You know, the key of a pro scouting is, you know, picking up a barbershop at the trade deadline, you know, and, you know, squeezing it through being that guy at two point seven five or whatever. They get you there. So anyway, it's it guy at 2.75 or whatever that gets you there. So anyway, it's fun talking. We'll do it all summer. And it's fun listening to you guys about, you know, wax poetic as we are having, you know, one series further. But, you know, what is it? One step forward, two back, maybe one forward again, maybe half back.

I don't know. It seems like it seems like Leaf fans are spinning their wheels again. It's actually really funny how quickly it got lost that they won a series. There's like the 10 days there, but you talk to people, they're like, another blown season. It's like, pretty good year. Gordo, you'll be a good person to talk to about this and you, Borny. I was out east

a lot for this weekend, and I was talking to a lot of different Leaf fans, and the consensus I had after that talking with a bunch of different people who love the Leaf i had after that talking to a with a bunch of different people who love the leafs is that like you know you can't let what happened in the second round take away from what an incredible moment that first round series win was like i know it stunk and i know it like everything got painted with the the the brush of that crappy second round but like having your you know much maligned captain score an overtime winner to put you into the next

round against like a hated rival. It was an awesome moment, but everyone just craps all over it now because they just got whacked by the Panthers. But the first round was great. That was enjoyable. Well, how far East were you pickering or Ajax?

No, no. I was in the East coast. I was in Nova Scotia. I know. I know the, okay. So,

okay. Here's the thing, Sam, is 100% that's the way you should feel and want to feel, and after the Tampa Bay series, did feel. Free at last, free at last, hallelujah, all that. But then again, the manner in which they lost, the fact they didn't appear to be ready to compete in the first three games, now you go back, go, okay, you won the first round. But that's all you've won in five years.

Like I said, when Kyle Dubas took over the team, this was a team that was automatically in the playoffs. And five years later, he's cashing in as the king of Pittsburgh, dining on that record. And I'm not saying that with disrespect to him. Good for him. And you go, this record sucks. Okay, in the big picture, this record sucks. It does. As far as the playoff.

Okay, so that's what you're balancing. So I'll give them, okay, but then, man, you got that chance. Go. Be the Florida Panthers. Be the Vegas Golden Knights. There's no Boston. There's no Colorado. Like, it's open.

It's open. You know, you took out Tampa Bay. What was it, the last Stanley Cup champions of the last 18 years aren't in it anymore in the Final Four anyway. So that's the mix I kind of find, Justin and Sam. It was a winnable cup. It felt like it, you know, given after, yeah, where they sat after one round.

So then, Gord, are you okay with what's happening? You know, we're hearing very little about the team aside from Matthews may come back, the core may come back, the coach may come back. How do you feel about, you know, the rumors of the tree-living era that we could be looking at a very similar Leafs team? Well, okay, when's the last big trade? Like a real hockey trade.

Took a rast for Andrew Raycroft, maybe, which didn't go well. I mean, the Dion Phaneuf deal from Calgary. Like, you know, I mean, Jake Muzzin wasn't a big deal. Jack Campbell wasn't a big deal. The Chicago trades, like these are good trades. Don't get me wrong. Like I'm saying, there's certain of these trades that were good, certain that maybe not so good.

So there's a kind of, it's harder to do it now, you know, with the salary cap. But, you know, there's no, they went and did as big a move as you could with John Tavares. That's as big an off-season move as you could do in the last decade, and the Toronto Maple Leafs did it.

So, again, I am, I know Kipper disagrees vehemently, I am okay about, it's not like you're looking for the same result at the end, but you cannot trade Austin Matthews. You cannot trade Mitch Marner. I mean, these are truly, truly special, special players. This is a great regular season team, okay? And so by blowing it all up, what, okay, you have a team that can't compete in the playoffs and now won't make the playoffs?

Like, we're not ready for a rebuild. These mini blowups aren't good ideas, okay? So all I can say is I know Brad Treliving had a predisposition to defense first when he made deals or signings in Calgary. You know, and that's, you know, that's the way this wasn't built for whatever reasons because the elite players were forward. So I'm interested in whatever tinkering he can do, him being in charge, I'm fine. I mean, Kyle was going to be in charge.

He got offered the job. So, I mean, I don't think there was going to be any, like, tell me what you're going to get back. You don't need to get rid of... Trade William Nylander just to prove something. Are you going to get a quality defenseman back? Never mind a bunch of futures. You don't want futures now.

You don't have futures, I know, but you don't want them right now. You got one or two more years or whatever that you got to go for it. Yeah, the future is now. Now is the time. This is when you're supposed to be... It's been now.

Yeah, it's been now. It's been now for seven years. seven years now it's really now double dog dare now now so gordo then you know there's a lot of turnover ahead on this roster right like there's nine nine or ten ufas at the bottom half the least roster like so it has a true living has a real chance to put his own stamp on this without trading one of the core fours like what direction do you want him to go in because i'm like they've tried all the different types of bottom sixes and different guys to mix in like the speed they tried the veterans they tried a little bit of grittiness this year like which direction do you want him to go in well i mean and it's funny because one of the guys that hadn't done the past kerfoot came up with a big goal but in the playoffs but you know he's not a guy you're going to have come have back so what and and it seemed and again that's

what's more disappointing about it because again they seem to check all the boxes at the trade deadline with those third and fourth line acquisitions and this isn't on the third and fourth line you know why they didn't get by the Florida Panthers but what was it about the Panthers third and fourth line that you you know, competed at a certain level? I mean, they, you know, so I'm, this is where your pro scouts come into play. And this is the whole thing about identifying certain players. I mean, Corey Perry is that great example.

I'm not saying go get Corey Perry, but there was plenty there. It showed there was more lemon to squeeze in Corey Perry the last four years. Yeah. You know, and who, who are those kind of equivalences as veteran players? Who is the player not, you know, not getting a role, commensurate with what you think his playing abilities are that maybe you can bring? It's not Dennis Mulgan, okay, and I'm not, you know,

I'm not dumping on trying things. There's ones that didn't work out. There's not enough that worked, though. There's more to me that, again, over the last five years that didn't work out than worked. You never got worked, though. There's more to me that, again, over the last five years that didn't work out than worked. You never got back for cap reasons to Zach Hyman and Connor Brown and, you know, and those kind of guys. And, you know, so that's a problem.

Here you are five years later, and you're probably weaker depth-wise. So, Gord, take us behind the scenes a little bit, like with the front office and how it works. I want to get a sense for what is happening with the leafs front office currently in the sense of there's relationships at play kyle dubas has left uh they aren't naming a gm in pittsburgh uh until they have an agm they seem to know who the gm is you know like there's a head scout in toronto that you know is boys with dubas

like it does feel like there's a lot of relationship dynamics, and we don't get to see a lot of that at the public. That's a major factor in how some of this plays out, isn't it? Yeah, and, you know, I say this with respect, but, you know, hey, go to Pittsburgh and have a good time. Good. Yeah. You know, I mean, Brad, you know, there's all kinds of people that can do jobs,

even if it wasn't Brad Treliving there. I mean, there's all kinds of competent people out there, and the thing is, Brad Terliving being experienced, he's got all kinds that he can plop in there. And, you know, Brandon Pridham, it seems like a lot of people, Jeff Merrick, one of them, seems to think that he's ticketed to be the GM at Pittsburgh, and if you make him the GM, then that is a way to get him there because it's deemed a promotion.

I don't know if that's the case or not. He's a smart guy. He's a quality guy and whatever, and if he can be one of the guys Brad Terliving keeps don't know if that's the case or not. He's a smart guy. He's a quality guy and whatever. And if he can be one of the guys Brad Treliving keeps, I'm sure that's great. But there will be others. It's Brad Treliving's show now. The scouts, they're working for the Toronto...

Well, first of all, they hardly have any draft picks, okay? Whatever. They've got to make sure they take some no-dose pills so they don't fall asleep at the table in between picks. So whatever. And if they go... That just goes with the territory. You always have some of your guys and women nowadays, and that's good. Just make sure, like the older days, you know, I hate to say in my day, Justin and Sam,

but there was a little more cronyism, you know, that, you know, I would take Sam just because he's a good golfer and I want to win the best ball tournament, right? And then it turns out he's a terrible scout, right? We're now, you know, use it to draw quality people that you work well with and I'm sure whatever, whoever leaves, Brad Treleving, it'll be like a chess game.

We'll have someone that can basically replicate that. So we saw the Freed conversation about Matthew staying here for eight years. I'm just wondering what that can do for the reputation of not only matthews in this city but for living like that seems like a massively mutual beneficial thing for both of those guys if they do get an eight-year contract extension done yeah well keep in mind the player signs for eight years doesn't jack eichel was in

buffalo for eight years and you know stuff can. We always know that. And I know you know that as well. I'm not as heptide. And I'm saying, hey, if I'm the player, sign three years. And I'm okay with it if I'm the team. If I'm the player, sign three years because in three years' time, the cap should go up considerably. And then the next five, I can make more money. Do you think Conor McDavid wants his term or Austin Matthews' term now

in hindsight, right? So Brad True Living doesn't have to do anything cosmetic to look good, okay? And so if Austin Matthews signs for three years or eight years, I'm fine with it. Austin Matthews, I want him on my team. I want him on my team at this level that he's playing. If he signs for three, that means he's here for four. And three years is a long time, Sammy. So the eight-year deal okay great great great but you know whatever it may be if if Mitch signs short term I'm fine you know whatever so yeah it does

seem like Austin Matthews the indications are that he wants to stay here so that's that's the best news I'm getting because I mean I know he didn't have a heart trophy year this year, but he is a special player. And he could arguably end up being the greatest Toronto Maple Leaf of all time if he stays here. You know, one of the things that is being said about this Leafs team is that it wasn't their defense that let them down necessarily. They didn't score enough in the playoffs.

I don't think they scored more than two against Florida. They didn't. Yeah, which is not spectacular. Didn't they score two in game six? Oh, six. And then two in every other game. Yeah. So a bad run there.

Yeah, they didn't score more than two for the last five or six games. So question there then, you see people being like, they got to add offense. But I look at this decor, like Giordano may not come back. Justin Hall may not come back. You're looking, you know, Luke Shen may not come back. It could be Riley and Brody, and then it's like McCabe, Lilligren, Timmons.

That seems like a pretty dire area to attend to, don't you think? Yeah, no, totally, totally. And the D is part of the offense as well. Well, that's, yeah. Yeah, and as you know, the simplistic thing about having trouble getting the puck out of your zone. And in the

playoffs that becomes more apparent because everything gets ramped up and whatever your whatever your strengths are you should be able to be exerted but whatever your weaknesses are get a little bit more exposed and i know people that you know said geez i thought tj brody was the norris trophy candidate no that's not a knock against him i just mean it's there's kind of more of a little bit more of an ordinariness that I think people thought, you know, compared to, say, the Vegas Golden Knight D, for example, which is probably the gold standard. So, yeah, I just, you know, I think there's certain area. That's probably, you know, one area that also continually needs to be addressed. I mean, we'll find out a little bit more.

You know, what is McCabe all about? You know what? You know, just kind of what can Lilligren get to the next level? Gustafson, we've hardly got to know you. what? You know, just kind of can Lilligren get to the next level? Gustafsson, we've hardly got to know you. You know, whatever. What are all these things? Morgan Riley, you played like a stud. You're still not a Norse trophy guy, but

you played like a stud that you need a stud D in the playoffs, and you are one guy that delivered the goods. For sure. Well, Gord, we appreciate your time in the middle of June. We're trying to get you out for a golf game at one point. I think it might happen Thursday. Oh, is it going to happen?

Yeah, no, I just texted that I'm waiting, ready to go. I think I texted that 45 minutes ago, whatever. But anyway, and then I said I'm good. So what are you, you said 1146? 1146. Yes, sir, Gordo. Like, if I play from tees a little closer, is that okay? Oh, my God.

You guys aren't the tips or anything, right? No, Gordy is. I won't play the tips, don't worry., is that okay? Oh, my God. You guys aren't the tips or anything. No, Lorne is. I won't play the tips. Don't worry. Low standards here. All good, Gord. We look forward to playing with you, bud. And also my gimmies.

Is that okay? Yes. Okay, good. We're all set. Anything inside the putter length, you're fine. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. All right, thanks.

That's Gord Stelic, host of Leafs Nation pre- and post-game, former Leafs GM. So Riley was a stud, and I think it's a good lesson for next year for real Kipperm born and Leafs Nation pre- and post-game former Leafs GM. So Riley was a stud, and I think it's a good lesson for next year for real Kipper and Bourne and Leafs talk that we have to not have the conversations every day. Yeah, that's fine, but he can't just not play good all year. No, no. We'll be like, but he has good playoff games.

Yeah, I'm doing it. I'd be like, I abstain from this conversation. There's got to be a length of time where you'll allow it. He was so good in the playoffs. So good. Probably like they're all out and out their best player i feel like did he outscore his regular season in terms of goals like he just he was all over the puck in the big moments decision making you know pressing at the right times decisive fast i actually can't this is silly in the mix but i can't think of a game where he was like bad or burned or cost them it was just

good yeah and him with shen was good and i don't think you can do that for the full regular season but so isn't it a lesson that whether it's hansy or shen or like you need that guy for morgan i don't know if shen can be that for a full season yeah and next season but he did it with the one after yeah but it's just like for him if you know my half a step i'm worried keep luke home like do not let my my boy luke leave uh luke's troops for life love luke uh but he you know he can load manage him you don't have to play him all the time you could have him give him nights off like he's comfortable being scratched remember that conversation like this shen was a good pickup because he's comfortable being scratched to the

playoffs it's like oh no no he's their second best defense i wrote an article on whether and who should be in and it was like should it be lily green or shen and i concluded shen and my comment section was like you know how do you put this guy in check his you know do you think do you think kyle dubas will trade for connor timmons for Bradstreet Living? Because he loves him so much? A great question. I couldn't believe that contract question. I think there's a fair case to be made if you're a tree living being like, look, never seen this kid. You

obviously like him more than everyone else. Would you like him? Have him. Here you go. But are you worried that Timmons might? He's a right shot six foot two guy who's been injury prone and never had a chance on a good shooting left he may be in the echl like honestly wait you've lost track of connor timmons oh great he had like what like three great offensive games and then i put out a poll

like who's a better player justin hall or connor timmons i was like connor timmons is better no it wasn't me for it was kevin pipetti and it was like 75% of people said Connor Timmons and I lost my faith in hockey. Let's let Timmons do his thing. You know, I will say this. So we'll give him until Christmas, whatever. But the thing that worries me is I don't love an offensive defenseman trying to find it

who's also a third pair guy. Yeah. You know, if he's an offensive guy who's, you know, got a bright future, he's figuring out with a good partner, cool. Really tough to play third pair minutes and be looking for offense. And I think, you know, Gustafson, there's a conversation that he is the most exciting player in the NHL. Oh, never a dull moment.

Because things are happening. He is a wild card. No play below a risk reward ratio of 90% risk. Yeah, it's like, I am doing it. Like, if I see it, I'm going. Imagine that confidence level. You're in the NHL, then playoffs, and you're like, I'm going in. Triple pump fake.

Probably time to jump. I'm making 750K, and I'm getting in once a game. But you better believe I'm going for it. So he'd be a guy, like, I think he'd be a guy I'd bring back. But he's fine as a guy that you mix in and out of your lineup. If he's going to make a million bucks, like he's not going to get a huge raise from what he had last year. He might run the power play.

Like, you know, I talk about Morgan. Yeah. Like he's a thing with Morgan now is here's what I love. He's been paid. You know, he's got that contract. If he is not on top power play unit, he doesn't have to worry that it's affecting his like bottom line. You know how he plays in years six and seven will affect his next contract yes the next five don't so i also love that he makes a dollar amount that

we don't have to go we need your guy make intended to be better you know whether it's seth jones or or whatever he's not in that class yep so he's i i'm really a big fan of his and so feel bad for the things that be a lesson to some people about like hey help the team out but take the pressure off yourself the team will have more money to spend you'll win more you should probably be the captain too quite honestly yeah the way he just the way he carries himself the way the professionalism like i'm a big fan of his anyone who plays well in the big moments for the leafs should that's why he stands out all the leadership quite honestly that's why like all Leaf fans adore him for the playoffs.

It's because he's the only one that goes up. But I will say, so this year maybe it wasn't quite there as much, but typically Austin Matthews, I feel like, does... He did score five goals in the first half. Yeah, this is the thing. I do think it's there for him. I do think he's going to... Marner?

Well, I'm not as convinced that that's going to come well it's still hockey and you still need guys who are big yeah it is but it's also still hockey and you need guys who can make plays but the ice just shrinks on him yeah and he's just so much less effective well the article i did on shooting distance by player and i i wrote about the leafs core and uh tavarez went down like his average shot was like half a foot closer and matthews is in the ballpark and willie was kind of i think he was farther out but mitch was like his average shot was 10 feet farther out than the regular season scared scared the middle of the ice he's not getting where he should get yeah

i mean that's fair like i didn't know go in the middle of the ice for that size playoff hockey like you don't want to be there yeah and i don't i don't think he's there a ton in the regular season too but there's just more space on the outside and like they're not trying to they're not they can't lock down on you and put you in the spots they want to put you in as much as they can in the playoffs and it's just you're not playing the bottom 16 teams where there's breakdowns and poor third pairs and yeah especially in gary's nhl where you have to play the best team in your second best team in your division if you don't win it yeah so uh all right well that'll take us to break after this we're gonna talk a little bit about uh you know oliver eckman larson travis green we got a few more topics to

hit for the end of the show join us after the break unrivaled insight, analysis, and opinions on all things Blue Jays. Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Welcome back to Real Kipper and Born, joined with Sam McKee. No Kipper today, which is, you know,

a night we love, Nick, but boy, guys, sometimes it's nice to have Sammy in here not yelling at me, intimidating me, you know, leaning all over me here, so. What was I going to say to you? Oh, I have a prediction about Oliver Ekman-Larsen. Oh, yeah. Let's talk about him.

He was bought out by the Vancouver Canucks. He gave 19 or 20 million dollars to not play for them. Scram. Beat it. PTSD. Hiding under the table. So they will pay him 2.1 for a year for a year for 8 years so that's the average

but next year they only have to pay very little like a couple hundred grand on the cap and then I think it's over 4 million the next two after that and then it averages out to like 2.1 after that so there's a little bit of herky jerkiness and Arizona has to pay him 290kK or they're like, oh jeez.

Oh God, in the couch cushions. Oh God, I gotta pay someone else now. So true. But, you know where OEL is going to end up. What do you think? Tampa Bay. Oh, I think so. Yeah. He's going to end up there. Playing $2 million or something.

He's going to do the, no. He'll be getting the state tax break. He'll be getting paid two million bucks or something. He's going to do the, no, he'll be getting the state tax break. He'll be getting paid a million bucks and they'll do the Shattenkirk with him. They'll do like the Bogosian. Pump and dump. They'll play him down at the, you know, bottom half of the lineup and he's going to be really good.

He's going to refine his game. Let's focus on him and he's going to be. This sounds full of fear to me. He's going to be, you know, it's just going to be talking about how great he is and what a great job julian breeze why the trauma maple leaves could move a puck moving competent d-man for cheap sounds pretty good been bad outright every canucks guy i've talked to like he is bad yeah so i think i'll say this he's an nhler he's not spotlight is no good for him yeah you're probably right so that's why tampa yeah is the perfect spot he's gonna go there he's gonna sign

for 1.2 million for a couple years he's gonna totally i bet you send him one year we'll totally redeem himself the show everyone can still play because you can't get much less than 1.2 but the potential for upside is so big so You like that? I do. I think it's a good call. Thank you. I think it's a good call. You go and do something like this and totally redeem yourself. I do think that Julian Brisebois does

like a bit of a rugged guy there. That's been Bogosian or Ruta or whatever. We will see what they do there. One of my favorite things that happens every year is a bad team decides it's time to not be bad anymore. Gotta be the Sabres this year.

I think they're one point out of playoffs this past year. They need D. They need top four D. They need a goalie for sure. Yeah. And that's Ukapukalakunin.

You ruined it for me because I know his name. They need a goalie for sure. Yeah. And that's the... Ukapuka Lekanen. Ukapuka Lekanen. You ruined it for me because I know his name. Ukapekalukanen. Nice. I mean, I hope it is nice. Good job. Yeah, thanks. But I do think...

I just called him Ukapuka. Ukapuka is not his name. In fact, that's probably not cool. But they're going to do stuff. So they have Devin Levi, and I think they call him UPL. UPL. Okay. Yeah, UPL.

So Levi and UPL there. So if they don't trade for Hellebuck, I do think they'll trade for a top 4D. I think the timeline with Hellebuck is good because he's got one more year, right? Yeah. You trade for him. You put UPL in the trade. Yeah. Plus what else?

Then you have the cast to do them. Great point. You pair him with Levi and Hellebuck. That's as your goalie tandem, which looks pretty good. Yeah. You know, if Hellebuck has one of his downswings that he sometimes does, you go with, he doesn't have to play 70 games. So true. And I also love taking the heat off Levi,

where you say you're Aaron Rodgers behind Brett Favre. Figure it out for a minute. You're Jordan Love behind Aaron Rodgers. Yeah, exactly. You know, like we're going to take our time, and it was Brady behind Bledsoe once upon a time. Like, you know, you watch a great guy do it. You're going to be the guy.

Might be Hall of Famer still. Pump the brakes a second. I like that. I wouldn't like it because the Sabres are scary. Yeah. The Sabres are really close to being scary. I know. Next year, a year better with Power Darlene and, you know,

Tage Thompson and Cousins. And, like, they're going to be a force. That Paterka kind of broke out this summer. It was really good. And, you know, the Sens. The division's good. Detroit's not going to be bad that much longer. The division's really good.

Montreal's going to get filled again. At least they suck. They're going to get filled. Yeah, so, I mean, I like that for Buffalo, but I don't like how competitive this division. I guess there's other teams you could say are on the downs like i probably won't say that boston's gonna go the downswing because they'll go i'm saying break their own record i'm saying oh yeah it's a june convo buddy no i said it last year and i'll wear that i said it last year but is bergeron coming

back like no no like yeah like creche is he can come back i don't know if they're both those guys and all of a sudden, you know, Hall's not getting better. You know, a lot of the Marshalls are not getting better. I think it's time that they suck for a while. Just for a minute, please. Yeah, I don't think they will, though. But they have, it will be interesting because one guy,

so another guy on the list that was interesting for me is Dmitry Orlov. You know, by the way, don't you feel good that they kind of went in and got guys and didn't pan out? What's he going to get paid? Because he was making $5.1 million in his cap it before. He's probably going to sign a seven-year contract. He's 31 years old. Maybe he'll sign a five or six-year at worst for him.

And what is that? And is it less than $5.1 per year? No. No, it's more. I mean, isn't it closer to six or six and a half of Riley's seven and a half? I like him a lot, but he wasn't very good in the playoffs. No. And neither was Lindholm.

Like, they got caved in in a lot of those games. The only case you can make for me with Orlov here is, like, isn't it last year of Brody's deal? It is. If you can get him a comparable number. Five million, and then he's a UFA. Yeah. Like, if you can get him at a comparable number to Brody, don't hate that.

I just think there's going to be a bit of a bidding war there. That's what's so scary about this time of year, man. I was like, Alex Killorn, sure I'll take him for playoffs next year. Do I want him for six years? No, not at all.

So that's what terrifies me about Treleving is coming in here and it's like... He signed a couple of those older guys too. The only way you're going to get players on your team right now is by, like, paying some of these guys, right?

Well, and you don't want to spend any real assets, so UFA is tempting. All I'm saying, true living, is just be careful up there, pal. Garnet Hathaway? Love him. How about Pierre Engvall? No thanks. You can bring back Engie on a three times three.

I'm good on the old Engvall. All right, well, thank you very much uh gordon stelic for joining us today we're gonna play golf with him on yes what an exciting thing that is uh thanks to jen bradeo sammy thanks for sitting in today and we will see you next time.