Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Out-Dance The Devils

Episode Date: March 8, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee open with the Leafs' gutsy win last night over the Devils, Ilya Samsonov's statement performance after getting shaken up in warm-ups, Sam Lafferty fitting in with the top six and what the team's d-man unit may look like in the playoffs. They are joined by Mike Futa (26:12), who weighs in on the early returns from the new additions, how the Leafs will adjust to playoff hockey and the Oilers' post-season hopes down the stretch. Afterwards, Luke Fox (1:07:17) jumps on to discuss how well Rasmus Sandin has performed for the Washington Capitals since the trade deadline, the depth of Toronto's blueline, Morgan Rielly's struggles and if it's connected with not having a consistent line-mate, and where does Jake McCabe truly fit on the roster. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. All right, let's go to very healthy and ready for the stretch drive towards the Stanley Cup playoffs. Mike Futa, ribs are feeling great, I bet. Oh, yeah. Liver, liver. Little problem with the liver. Ribs are good.

There's a solution for that, I've learned, you know. Yeah, I know, Jeff. I had to get Bissonnette to the airport as quickly as possible. Get ready, man. We're going to need you big time down the stretch here. We've had a handful of games since the big trades. We know Ryan O'Reilly's not around, but the rest of them, Feuts, they've come as advertised, haven't they?

Oh, have they ever? I mean, and again, I mean, last night, it's pretty hard to quite, I mean, Samsonov was great last night, right? Especially early. So I just think there's some, and they were giving up some pretty good chances, but I just like the look now. And the fact that Sheners are righty, I think,

I just think sometimes as the games get faster, moving guys from their left to their right, especially if they get a little older is not an ideal look. But McCabe's playing with some bite. It's not like I was saying, it's not for a while. They're the old Leafs slot here. They look like the only thing missing was a cabana and some drinks with umbrellas in it.

No Buddhas? Yeah, that's the one that was in the fridge too, Cooper. You know what? It's just a tougher team to play against right now. And I like the fact that when someone digs their stick in, there's guys scrumming around that actually have some heaviness to their stick. And it's a good look. I think Kyle did a good job.

He went up some of these guys in front, played with some pace, played a little bit more dirt, a little tougher to play against. I mean, you clearly see, again, that their first opponent's going to be in. They seem to be addressing that. I mean, goaltending aside, I mean, I guess see, again, that their first opponent's going to be in. They seem to be addressing that. I mean, goaltending aside, I mean, I guess now we have to see. I was listening to you guys, as I always do, and I was a little surprised as well that Sheldon tipped his hat like a month in advance.

He was playing goal against Edmonton. But I guess it'll be interesting to see what Murray does against the Oilers on Saturday because if anybody – I thought the blue line kind of got exposed a little bit in the Edmonton game for just sheer speed. And I think, Barney, you were saying they're playing some fast teams coming up here. But, yeah, I just think it'll be a really good test for this defensive crew.

I mean, hopefully Tavares is back in the lineup and it'll be a real good test playing the Oilers on Saturday because we know that they can throw up in a hurry. Nice to see Matthews score one late. That was a big, I kind of sleptwalked through the game and scored one that mattered most. That was a big

win. That was a big win, character win. For sure. Fuchs, do you feel like the types of, the type of chances that are available in the playoffs are significantly different to that in the regular season like the leafs don't look like the same offensively dynamic team they maybe were two years ago but my thinking is maybe they're better suited to try to create in the postseason you guys won some cups uh with some pretty heavy groups that weren't exactly offensively unbelievable i think compared to league wide what are your thoughts on the postseason and the type of chances you can earn

ideally um the teams that i mean i don't think colorado's tough play games i mean we were like daryl said it was a 3-2 league i mean we we ended up scoring some really mucky goals but we had the right guys get hot at the right time like Jeff Carter could score big goals and we always spread out like Mike Richards but they were they were kind of hardened weathered guys that were like just experienced guys that found ways to score and like you'd get a a serious clincher out of like a Jared Stoll or something and I mean you know our power play really didn't get hot I know but Bernie Nichols was taking credit for it I think we're about four percent going into game six against the Devils when we scored four and then Bernie Nichols was taking credit for it. I think we were about 4% going into game six against the Devils

when we scored four, and then Bernie Nichols was running out under the ice claiming we had an amazing power play. But it's a matter of just getting some chemistry, right? And I think you guys said if you're going to lose a guy, the right time to lose him right now, because hopefully it doesn't affect him so much on face-offs. But just the way he plays, like with Ryan O'Reilly, it's just the type of player that you need

to show you how it's done in the playoffs. And I mean, it might not be bad for someone who's, it can be not that he's getting up there, but if he gets himself five or six games ready to come back, I think a rest right now and the fact that he can still skate and work on his lower body isn't going to be the worst thing in the world. But, yeah, to answer your question, I think they have to play that style that they played,

you know, where they can shut teams down. Who was it the other or the third period they just didn't give them anything? And that's what you got to do. I mean, but I don't think you want to open it up against anybody because I just think that exposes kind of the lack of speed on the back end. But just get the puck in these guys' forwards hands as often as you can. But, yeah, I think it's going to take muddy goals. It was nice to see Bunting wake up last night.

I mean, that's a good response to being dropped in the fourth line. I mean, he scores the big goal, and that was a very intelligent play to let it go through his legs to the big guy for the winner. But they just seem to be having fun with each other. They seem to be really finding ways to win, whereas before they wouldn't be able to come back and win a game like last night. We're talking to Mike Futa, Sportsnet hockey analyst,

former NHL executive with Stanley Cup champion LA Kings. And when I think about your championships in LA, I think of Trevor Lewis. I think of Kyle Clifford in his heyday, Teddy Nolan's kid. Jordan Nolan, Dwight King. And now we're watching the likes of Lafferty come in and Achari. And I just want to just get your thoughts now on maybe a little bit of a tug of war,

even at the trade deadline, and making that transition to go get guys like that. And I can only imagine what it would have been like to listen to Kyle Dubas say, we're turning the tables a little bit here. So, you know, my analytics team during the trade deadline, why don't you guys go out for a coffee or something? And like, In all honesty, was that not a big

elephant dump on the analytics department going this way now? You know what? I just think it's a feel. And I think you know who your opponents are. You know why you've lost these teams. You can't help but look at the Maroons and the Perrys

and feel about the heaviness of the bottom six of Tampa Bay. And you've got to address it. And I give him full credit, but this isn't the first time he's done it. That's what I couldn't understand is because when they went out and got Foligno, that's exactly what they needed. And it was almost to me like he it he got hurt so that move was deemed a failure right so let's go back to the analytics and go back to the numbers again and and then we see we got the same result so i mean and now you look at what felino healthy he'll be

ready for the playoffs what he brings to boston you need players like that that are going to be able to grind it out and mix it up, and good on him for going out and getting them because as much as, you know, whatever, Engvall looks great with his shirt off, he just does not play hard. And he doesn't win those critical battles in the playoffs. And he's a good hockey player, but just not what they need to get over the hump. It'll be, again, I like the concept of saying that he's done his job.

It's all up to the players, and I've said this, and this is not a pick-on-the-leaf thing. Still, I think Vlasilevsky is the best goaltender in the world, and I'm still at that stage that when I see Samson off play last night, I'm happy, but I not like sure that that's coming out the exact same way the next game and I don't know whether Murray's gonna you know every team's every time we get start to get excited about him he gets hurt so that's the one area that still scares me with this team I love the fact that by adding the defense that

they've added that they've made that position an easier position to play because it's not so fun to be around their net anymore. But I still just think that's the only area I think it's still advantage Tampa Bay. And we'll see how it plays out. In about a month here, it's going to be fun to watch. And hopefully, you know, you'd like to see all these teams that have made these moves be 100%. I know I'm sure that some of the teams don't feel that way. They'd like to see somebody's big guy go out,

but it's just like when you see Boston and you see the skate almost cut Marchand and you're like, you just don't want to see a year like that. And you got Hall and Foligno out now, and then you see that, you know, Austin Matthews take that slap shot in the back of the leg, and then you see Ryan O'Reilly take it in the hand. I just want to see best on best and see who's figured it out the most. Well, I want to get your thoughts not just on the Leafs and in terms of teams figuring out, but this Oilers team,

they're going to see this upcoming Saturday just beat the pants off them the last time they saw them. What are your thoughts? Is that a legit cup contender there around McDavid and Co.? One thing that scares me boring is like i look at their back end and obviously this this at combs is a real deal like as far as what he's brought and that's a great great trade but it reminds me a little bit of the least and first of all i mean i don't like the fact that darnell nurse makes whatever

nine and a half million dollars but at home makes his game a little better when you cut back on his minutes and some of these guys that don't have to play as much because this guy's such a beast. But when I looked at the Leafs' blue lines in the past couple years, when a Muzzin goes down, you're looking in the room and Martin Marinson's coming out, right?

There's somebody like that, and it's just not a good feeling. Whereas the Leafs now, if whoever they end up being their top six, whether you're pulling a Lilligrand or a Timmons or the Gustafson, you've got an NHL-ready guy coming in next, and I don't like what comes in next

if something goes down on the back end with Edmonton with regards to... Interesting. I'd have to Google who the hell it is, who the next guy up is, and I just think it's a nice six. I like the look of it. CeCe's got to get his head over his ass,

but it looks like Bouchard's finding his game, but I just don't like the next man up on the Oilers as opposed to a team where some of these other teams, it just seems the next guy up doesn't concern you as much. It almost seems like the Oilers and the Leafs kind of mirror their situation in goal where you're leaning towards Samsonov and Stuart Skinner, but these guys are a bad week away from changing your mind. A hundred percent.

Sorry. Go ahead. Do you expect maybe the Oilers to give one last shot at maybe a Jack Campbell Saturday night versus the Leafs for a sentimental start? No. Okay. Next question. My turn.

No offense. I mean, I've got, I listen, you know what I think of Jack Campbell, but sentiments aside, he's got to get going here. And I don't, I don't know putting them against that offense is the best recipe right now. Like if it, first of all, it being in Toronto, if it goes South, it's it's staying South. Right. And I think you got to give them a couple of starts. You got to find, you can't just kick them out there and he's getting back to the same thing and i where he's apologizing to the crowd and his teammates and stuff for letting

them down and that stuff should be moved on from by now uh the hardest part is and you know i love the kid is skinner's actually playing very well and it seems like he's consistent now we don't know what murray's going to do right? That could be sentimental for him. I think you guys said it. Have a good night's sleep, by the way. Here comes McDavid, Drysdale, Nugent Hopkins, and maybe Evander Kane for your home, your first game back at home.

But I don't know about that. I just find the hard part for me is when you get paid and it's a position that requires mental toughness. And again, I love the kid, but it puts you in a tough spot when you've got $5 million sitting in a baseball cap on the bench and you couldn't move and add other pieces because that much salary cap can't go in because you can't trust it right now. So I hope he gets it turned around. I mean, I think if something happens to Skinner,

you've got to feel that Jack could get in and get hot again. But he started to get hot, and then it's gone right back to you've got to be consistent at this time of year. And it looks like Skinner seems to be the one that is relishing the situation and looking consistent, just as Samsonov think to be that way with toronto so it's going to be a lot of cap space on the bench uh for both of those teams come playoff time well an interesting tie-in too is the other team in alberta there that has your boy daryl sutter's the head coach jacob markstrom finally got it figured out he got a shutout the flames

get a win you know i i want to know a if you think it's possible that team can get back into the mix but what it's like being on a daryl setter coach team after a number of years like it seems like he comes in and everyone loves him and then you know we're four years into it or something now and they're having a bit of a harder time you would have a lot of experience being around that oh no they hate them okay that's that's exactly what their beat writer told us so it's not us making it up well you know what i have trouble being critical of a guy that won two Stanley Cups for me uh so i have to say though that we were filled with a bunch of character guys that could take that they could shoulder that so if he was going to go hard after brownie you had eight NHL captains that could pick it up

or possibly tell him when to turn it down. They don't have even a guy that they're trusting to wear a C in that locker room right now. So when the attacks come or the criticisms come, you know, Jonathan Huberto sticks his head in the ground as opposed to stands up and gets better. So I would say that since the Pelletier press conference, it seems like he's a lot more positive in his press conferences,

almost overkill on how he talks about Pelletier now. And I think the team, they haven't rolled over and died on him. I don't think, you know, they're sending him birthday cards or anything or anything like that. But I just see when you come out and they're still out shooting teams 50 to 20 and not winning, it's not a sign of a team that's rolled.

Now, the biggest thing for me, I mean, other than Toffoli scoring a couple big goals, is the emergence of what we always were expecting. And you had it on the head there as Markstrom. Like, an absolute like he was a force last night it would have been a sin if they didn't get him a didn't get him a run or didn't get him the win and that's as good as he can play now i i made one of my silly ass comments on uh i was joking and i said about some eminem song with the real Slim Shady, Please Stand Up. And I said, well, the real Jacob Markstrom, Please Stand Up.

And Tyler Foley sends me a note saying, oh, Mark, he's pissed off at you. And I'm like, I said, well, you tell Mark, if he's got time to be pissed off at me, that might be the reason he's not focused. You know, he had his kid. He went back in. He looks amazing. He looked great in the Minnesota game. He looked great in the Dallas game.

Sorry, I think Littard played the first. Markson played the first 3-0 game. Anyways, he looked great. And if he gives him that kind of goaltending, I don't know how much room is left on the runway because it was for so long there that it seemed like they were stuck at three, four points. It was like the old stationary bike race.

But for some reason, I just don't know how they're doing it. Seattle keeps winning. And the only team that seems to be stuck in the rut now that they could – Winnipeg has really come to a halt with their momentum. So it's doable, especially if you break down their schedule. But they can't afford to piss any more points away to the Bedard sweepstakes guys. It's like Ottawa. The other day, we're just eating it up, hoping Ottawa pushes, and then you get spanked

by the Blackhawks. You just can't have those games at this type of year. They've got a couple Anaheim games coming up, a couple Arizona games, where this two-game winning streak could easily start turning into a six- or seven-game winning streak if they get that type of goaltending and they're focused. And I don't know. Last night, Darrell looked pretty – he's just – it looks right now that he's come to grips with this group for now,

at least that I don't know what's behind the door. You've got to be more positive with him because the other way just clearly isn't working. Is Daryl smart enough to look at his comments on the young rookie, Belcher, and say, yeah, that didn't work? Well, I would think just by looking at it, somebody else might have reminded him that it didn't work.

In a much higher seat, Just by looking at it, somebody else might have reminded him that it didn't work. In a much higher seat, whether it be Brad or, I mean, as much as Daryl runs the show and very much so, he's a brilliant guy. He's a smart hockey guy. And I think sometimes whether it was trying to be funny or whatever, it wasn't funny. It didn't come across as funny. And I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a discussion from other people about how it wasn't funny and uh and he's smart enough to adjust i mean it's a different it's a it's a different type of forget what we have with the kings and our mental toughness and the ability to you know react

to stuff like that before they started um building uh boxes and blocking them out of the dressing room floor. This guy knows what he's doing, and if he wants his team to succeed, he's got to be positive the rest of the way. Even if he has to bite his tongue sometimes, it just wasn't working the other way. Just one more quick one on Darryl. You don't buy for one second that if they do miss the playoffs, wholesale changes

could come, including one for Darryl. No, I don't think so. I think the owner there really loved the general manager portion of Darryl, but he loved the coaching part of him.

He's a piece of Calgary history. I don't foresee if they don't go down. I think there will be changes, and I don't think Brad Trello will be fired, but I'm not sure whether he'll hang around anymore. And it'll be really interesting because he's got, first of all, that owner's pretty prudent, and he's got a couple more years making really, really good money. And it'll be a big discussion on, you know,

where you move forward with that personnel, meaning the players itself. But I don't foresee any change in the coaching position there under any circumstance, and we'll see. But I would like to see them go on one of those runs like we did in 2012 and find a way to get in and then be a tough team to play if they're healthy

and if Markstrom continue to play like he did last night. You know that snowstorm last week, I was really worried about you. We all were, Mike. What part of the snowstorm? The part where I walked outside and walked from wherever we were, the pub we were at to the hotel with this, the net, and I looked like I was wearing a George Washington hood from all the snow.

Worried about your ribs and your liver last week. Well, Nick, you keep getting me barred from those those type of establishments and i'll never have to worry about stuff like that i'm working on wiping your slate clean buddy don't worry thanks guys i appreciate it thanks for you mike buta former nhl executive with the LA Kings and now doing a great job on Sportsnet on occasion with you. Yeah. It's really fascinating hearing him talk about the guys that still connected with obviously Sutter and Toffoli and all those relationships.

Yeah. That is a big, bad thing about Markstrom. Like, boy, oh boy. Like, why do you care?

Yeah. But I also thought the point about Sutter and the Kings having like eight other boy like why do you care yeah but i also thought the point about sutter and the kings having like eight other captain like guys is a good point like the flames don't seem to have the guys to stand up to sutter and say you know what you're actually the one across the line here he's it's they're just kind of getting rolled over maybe cadre next year yeah but that's the thing the guys who would be leaders are new new yeah and that's the one thing just to kind of bring this back to the toronto maple leafs a little bit on on leadership the one thing that hurts and and feuds talked about hey they're gonna get them back at the

end of the year the problem is is you lose four weeks of establishing uh i don't know if a proper word is pecking order in the room. I know what you mean. But you lose. Find his spot in the hierarchy. Exactly. You don't have that. He has to come in and just. He's still new when he comes back.

But it's like one or two, three games away from the playoffs, and now you got to be that guy without really establishing a rapport as a player going to battle. You still feel like you have to be careful with your teammates. Yeah, and that's the one thing that is unfortunate is that I really believe that it was important for Ryan O'Reilly to go in there and look around the room, even with the McDavids and the Marners and the Morgan Raleigh and say,

boys, Matthews. Yeah. Do you say Matthews? Yeah. Is that a Freudian saying? You got some info? McDavid.

Oh, sorry. You got some info for us? Yeah. Sorry to get you excited. My ears hurt. And, and just say,

look, I've been here. I've done it before. And take a deep breath. Or every once in a while, look at a guy, grab him by the collar, and say, we need you now. You know, I thought it interesting. We talked to Mike Kelly yesterday,

and he talked about listening to a bunch of, like, Hall of Fame coaches talking about preparing for game sevens over their career. And one of the things that they didn't want to do was try something new in those big situations. You want, they wanted to establish lines that they'd used before power play set up. They'd used before structures they had built and relied upon. You do want some time to build and rely upon structures with your new guys too,

and find what that is. So it's going to be one of their challenges for sure and also hearing him say that made me think of the time sheldon keith went to game five against columbus the super line and willie at center and overthink overthink um just quickly before we go to break the wild and flames that we were talking about last night i was just looking back at the wilds game logs they just play rock fights every game they score you know it's like two one three two two one yeah four three two one two nothing two one twenty six in the nhl one nothing two one second in

their division and they're almost bottom third and go absolute rock fights your father's minnesota wild are back they're back to being the most boring franchise now with more caril caprizo that's all they got to sell you what a fan team to be a fan of it's like oh maybe we'll win two one or lose three nothing like we always do all right we're gonna take a quick break and then we're gonna come back with lukefox Sportsnet.ca. What's his latest story, Sammy? Why do we have Luke Fox on the show? Hopefully he's not listening because he always listens.

No, because he's writing about Sandin. Oh, that's right, Sandin. He's writing about Sandin. Has he got him in the Norris running? We'll see. With Morrissey? You could ask him. And Dougie Hamilton? We'll see. With Morrissey? You could ask him. And Dougie Hamilton?

We'll ask Luke after the break. You're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born. More Leafs, more Raptors, more Blue Jays. The Fan Morning Show with Ailish Forfar and Justin Cuthbert. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toronto Maple Leafs finish off their five-game road trip with a 4-3 win over the New Jersey Devils.

A gutsy win for the Toronto Maple Leafs. A late rally. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Derek Brandeo, David Sispumba, Sammy McKee. And before we get into all of that, Mike Futa will be joining us later on in the show. Lukeuda will be joining us later on in the show fox will be joining us later on in the show despite that emotional win by the toronto maple leafs last night you know you're in the dog day still of of the season yeah when sammy's prior to the show complaining about Team Canada's World Cup baseball jersey.

We spent a lot of time on that. Well, listen, we like to talk about literally everything other than the show before the show. It's our favorite activity to do. And Bourne sent a great tweet about their jersey. And it is a catastrophe. A catastrophe of a baseball jersey. It's red and white. It's red.

Listen, just make a normal jersey that says Canada on it in normal letters, in normal size. It's not hard. If you completely went with no ideas and went, okay, it's red. There's some like, you know, the white, red, white trim. And we're going to put Canada across the middle. Everyone will be like, cool. I'm telling you, like if I didn't know better,

I'd go to Walmart and find one in the kids section. I saw someone tweet you, Bordy, that looks like somebody that doesn't have the rights for a jersey. They had to make a knockoff jersey. Someone who can't say Super Bowl, talking about the big game.

Under Armour, they've kind of taken a beating over the years for their unstylish things. Jordan Spieth is one of the worst dressed golfers on tour constantly and he wears Under Armour, you know, they've kind of taken a beating over the years for their unstylish things. Like, Jordan Spieth is one of the worst-dressed golfers on tour constantly, and he wears Under Armour. What does he wear, like khakis and a blue shirt? Do they have designers? Steph Curry, he got really made fun of for his shoes back in the day. It's not exactly the coolest company. Style brand.

The show's starting to turn into, like, the Seinfeld show. About nothing? We're just bad people. We just make people feel bad. Can you imagine now the person that designed those Team Canada jerseys right now who happens to be listening to our show and just how bad they would feel? Well, I assume that person can go back to their full-time job, whatever it is. Oh, back to their day-time job whatever it is oh back to their day job yeah um all right yeah no i uh i really am excited for us to get absolutely barn door by usa and

dominican republic that we have to play in our group this for canada i know vladdy yeah are we watching anymore if there's no vladdy i will i'm a sicko any sport that has canada on it i will watch most i'll watch the canada baseball classic but we're gonna get spanked all right okay let's pull this thing back on its rails it's not even friday it's not even 304 sammy yes when we ended the show you thought maybe this had a potential for a blowout uh i think you predicted to win and i said i don't care if they win or lose just stay in the game and really that's what happened to start this hockey game is one guy responsible for holding them in early and that that's Samsonov. Yeah. You know, that's, Sam, you wanted a goalie steal.

I think that's one thing you did get. You know, that's a game where the Leafs get outchanced and, you know, outshot and whatever metric, and they end up on the right side of it. So good for him. I, yeah, I thought he was, so first of all, let's dial it back to the warm-up where we all were, Kipper sent, you know, I was just getting my dinner ready, getting ready to watch the hockey game, and Kipper sends a video to the group

being like, what's going on with Sam Sullivan? He looked ginger, looked like he tweaked something. I was panicking, Kipper. Who shot the puck, Willie? Yeah, it's Willie. That's like the fifth time he's done that to goalies. As long as I can remember, and we're different eras, me and you, but there's always one guy.

Always. Always. I don't care what generation you're from. There's always one guy that's just going to mess up a goalie. Yeah. In practice or in warm-up, and that isie nylander yes that's him i remember our guy in college going neck high in a pond hockey or the team i don't play pond hockey one day he went neck high on a guy but you don't picture the guy that being that guy being like willie

you know you think of willie being the guy that doesn't necessarily care as much mr cool guy you think of the guy that hits a goalie in the throat or in the you know where being the hard old guy that's skating a million miles an hour and fired it hard you know you don't you think willie's the type of guy i'm surprised because it's he's just not thinking he's just he doesn't care enough to care just trying to shoot it in the net it's like he always does he's got one top shelf yeah he's a goalie. He's a net. In warm-up. I'm good at shooting it past these guys. So when I sent you the video of him going down, it didn't look like it was nothing. It looked like a tweak. It looked like he, because it was just such a soft shot,

and it kind of looked like he tweaked his knee or his groin. It did not look good, and it was his groin, but it was just impact as opposed to a strain. Was there a thought of he could bail here? Entered your mind at all after watching it? After Sammy mentioned that he may have just taken her in the old dingleberries there, I was pretty sure he was going to find a way to be ready for puck drop. I was listening to her.

I didn't get the thought. No? My first instinct wasn't he got nailed in the nuts no no i thought it was a knee or a groin or something yeah that'd be worse i was listening to um long term but least nation pre and post pre-game with uh gorge delic and and brent gunning while i was doing my dinner duties and they were panicked. Gunner's like, oh, it's going to be Matt Murray starting tonight. Like, they went full on like it was an injury, and it turned out to be wrong.

So, sorry, Gunner. And then he ended up being wonderful, and off they went. And then it was the complete opposite of a potential bail. It was almost like he came out with a statement it was okay you think that guy that just came back off of a long-term ir is gonna take my job no and he's been best in those spots i am this is my net he's not taking it away i just thought that he he dug down deep to to prove something last night at least that's the way it appeared to me like the team to me where you know they go out and they're getting outshot eight nothing five minutes into the game um you know feels like the world's

crashing down on them and you know kind of fighting through and finding themselves and establishing a game and just kind of hanging around like you're not going to be the best team in playoffs every night and i like the idea that they they managed to hang around and you look at the first save coming off what we thought was going to be like a groin or a knee or we thought we didn't know what happened to post a post and the first shot on net was jack hughes over to like maybe brown not sure who it was but post the post and then it comes around the net and he gets back over and makes another save timo yeah and i thought listen i don't think there's any way to take that other than what you just said kipper as a complete

statement game for samson off i thought the goals that ended up going in like the third one absolutely wreaked i i don't know what the hell happened there and it was not pretty but the ones that go in i'm not killing them a whole lot for i thought it was a state a hollow goal yeah the second hollow goal i know some people had issues with that i just come on it's like if there was just that a few inches and nothing else it found it yeah it found it yeah it's a random puck-sized hole. It found it. Yeah. It found it. Yeah, it was a random one-hand stick, unpredictable play. So, yeah, I didn't love it either, but, yeah, not the end of the world. Okay, let's go to Sheldon Keefe for our first Kippers Clipper of the day. Sheldon Keefe on Samsonov.

Yeah, I thought he was really good. There's a couple of really tough shots early in the game that he came up big on. And then I thought, you know, certainly Jersey was carrying play through the first period there. But we were able to really tighten up defensively to the point that we were keeping it to the outside and perimeter shots and shots from distance at the top, all of that. And I thought he was solid there. But, yeah, I liked his game. I'm still not quite sure how the third one ended up getting in there.

I know that he wasn't expected to be tipped like that. But, yeah, it's a solid game for him. I mean, that's a team that the way they move the puck around the zone and change sides on you, it's not an easy team to play against and the danger and the rush and the options that they present. So not an easy game and a great effort by him yeah he didn't want to kill him for the third goal but he's like not quite sure how that one went in but yeah so good samsonov and now you go back to murray on saturday

night is that how we're all feeling well that's maybe why we didn't like him coming out and immediately committing to mur Murray the other night, because I think it's a pretty clear indication that Samsonov is ready for this challenge. And you would like to go back to him against one of the most offensive teams in the league. Wouldn't you? Yeah.

But I also like finding out what Matt Murray's got. For sure. And that's where I think that you have to lean. The temptation is to give Samsonov another crack at McDavid and company and redeem themselves from last week. But there is a bigger picture here. And one of them is to also put Matt Murray in a position of being there if Samsonov falters and being ready.

You can't do that sitting on the bench. Yeah, no, it's true. And also they got another game two days later, you expect to get to see Samson off them. So the goalie sitch in situation, we're going to see them both down the stretch and they'll make a late

decision on playoffs. I'm sure. Why don't we take uh keith he's just overview of the game do you want to go there next kipper and dive in from off the coach without a doubt all right let's go gutsy you know it's uh just just loved how our guys stayed with it uh you know first period didn't go didn't go great for us i don't know he was as bad as the as the shot clock maybe might have said, but I like how he came out and

really kind of took over the game in the second period. And then it's kind of back and forth through the third. The fact that our guys stuck with it, some key plays, clutch plays at key times. Really great. It's a great way

to finish the trip. Lafferty in the second hole last night. Yeah. Part of a good finish off of Nylander and Jarn Kroc. Yeah. I said with Lafferty, I think he's one of those guys that will play up and down for Sheldon. And I really believe that he can have a prominent role.

You liked him right away. Right away. And it's almost as if I recall my day with the New York Rangers in 1994. We traded Tony Amante. Tony Amante was an American superstar. Unbelievable. Okay.

Team USA, one of the stars. If you want to go down the road of the Billy Garens of the world and the Jeremy Roenicks and that next generation of USA players coming off a gold medal in 1980, that new wave, Tony Amante was it. And Tony Amante got traded our year for a couple of pluggers that we didn't really know too much about. One of them was Brian Noonan. Lafferty, I don't think we'll ever have

the type of finish i think that brian noonan had but man brian noonan wherever you put him third line second line slide him up there with mark messier and adam graves that guy would just fit right in lafferty doesn't have i think as much polish as brian noonan but i don't have any problem seeing lafferty yeah uh move into a top six yeah i misjudged him i i said to sam the first game or two i said that he had panic hands you know there's some guys who just never seem comfortable having the puck they love to forecheck and be big and be fast and show people what they can do there but i thought in that game last night was the first time i got some sense that like oh okay like he can hang on to the puck there's one play i talked about him in uh leafs talk last

night where he gets a pass behind the net and he just kind of holds off a guy well he has the puck doesn't rush or panic a play and you know aids the breakout you mentioned the goal where he supports you know from below the puck drives the d back goal where he supports, you know, from below the puck, drives the D back before the drop. Like, he made some plays that made me go, okay, like he doesn't hate having the puck on his stick, which is great. So, yeah, that allows you to play him in different spots. The coach spoke about Lafferty, and he was mentioning some of that stuff.

So let's listen to that. Well, a huge goal for us in the second period. I thought Lafferty really came alive in the second period, really started to skate through the neutral zone with a puck. I thought that really got them on their heels a few times. Obviously, great play on the goal. Good play by Will and Yarny to get to the net. So that's obviously an important goal for us.

But like I said, I thought we really saw signs of what Lafferty's capable of in terms of putting the other team on their heels with his speed like he's done that at different times in the earlier games with us but it was more off the puck and getting up the ice and applying pressure today it was with the puck and carry it through the neutral zone which is probably a byproduct of playing that center but certainly it was, and he was good on face-offs too. That was a right-handed shot, so that was really nice to see. And not an easy shift out there tonight, available for really any line,

but certainly for him and the matchups that he had to go against. So I thought he was really good. You're going to see him at center again. Coach liked him. I thought if you had a slap number 65 on his back last night you could have convinced me it was elia mckay of multiple times yeah it's the first time i felt like that and maybe it's because like he mentioned he had the puck more yeah um but it just he's got he can drop that shoulder you know like mckay i've used to do and i don't really

want to compare his hands to Mikheyev because that's not a very flattering thing to do, but he can just drop that shoulder and fly with the puck. And it's like they don't, Engvall had that speed, but he never dropped that shoulder and cut in like he will. So I think it's really, I was encouraged by Lafferty last night. Like it was a really good performance. He's got way more of a playoff feel than Mikheyev will ever have.

Yeah, Mikheyev was a, he liked to get his points. You know, he liked to take it to the net, you know, be involved in the offense and all that. I think Lafferty will seem a little more content wherever he's placed. And that, to me, again, for the second time since the big trades, and I'll lump in Calgary last week, those type of games feel to me like playoff hockey, whereas it may not be working for you,

you get great goaltending, but you start with the little things, and there was one play, I think, maybe a little before the halfway mark, like Noel Achari. It's Nico Heischer on the wall. And by the red line, Achari's got him pinned to the wall.

And he's totally discouraging Heischer from jumping up on the play and joining the rush. Like, it's like, it's over. Yeah. And he's positionally very impressive you that's that's playoff hockey right there yeah yeah i agree i you know he's not an elite player nola chari but he's going to play his role and contentedly do so which again the fourth line for the leafs hasn't typically done in playoffs i wrote today about the leafs offense and my concerns about them

but the one thing i did say in that article and i think i said it yesterday on the show the type of chances they're able to get right now as a group feels more sustainable in the postseason than it has in the past because of guys like lafferty and achari and you know a willingness to sort of bang it out and let the top guys do their thing so obviously they need to be healthy for that but yeah and so you hang around and then you still have these elite guys that do these elite things marner and matthews make elite plays that's all she takes god that shorty was so nice one issue i had going into the despite the win, still have that left side, guys. Kerfoot, Yarncroft, and then Bunting moved up late in the third period to camp. And Aston Reese.

Two of the four scored last night, Cooper. No good. No good. No good. So when they are healthy, you know, presumably one of O'Reilly or Tavares either plays there or pushes one of these guys out the middle to the left side. Does it feel that much different to you? Nyes comes in. So what if it's Tavares and Nyes on the left wing now. I was very surprised that Sheldon stuck with Kerfoot,

with Matthews and Marner for the majority of that game. Can we have a Kerfoot conversation? Yeah, absolutely. I thought he was midway over his skis last night to play with Matthews and Marner. Can't finish. You can stop it there for me can't finish can't finish and the puck is landing on a stick in excellent spots 30 seconds into the game marner makes a play to matthews matthews gets it across to kerfoot kerfoot gets the hash like this is no shot no pass it's driving me nuts. I know, sure, Kerf's been better than Bunce.

Sure, okay. I get that you like him, you know, Keefe. I get that you love him. No. But get him off the top line. You get that you're driving a message to Bunting. But Bunting's been driving them nuts the last few games. You know that.

They're pissed off at Michael Bunting's been driving them nuts the last few games. You know that. They're pissed off at Michael Bunting. Sounds like Sheldon and him have a relationship like that too, like a father-son thing. All right, let's go to Sheldon on Bunting, and then we'll come right out of it, okay? I mean, you hope he feels good with it, of course, and it can help and take some of the pressure off, just help him relax. But he has the ability to finish plays like that for sure

and did a great job putting himself in a good spot. Just unbelievable plays by Hall and Camp to get it there and love the finish there. I had a sense, not a sense, but a feel at least that we needed a goal, and that's why I changed the line and put them there. I was going to go with just three lines kind of the rest of the way and wanted Bunce to be involved in that. And, you know, it was a great play there

and a great play on the power play goal too, just the awareness to leave that puck and let it get through to to austin so yeah it was a real real real two key real uh great plays for us an important time to finish this trip here did you guys catch that uh sheldon pat on the back for himself for making the line change the adjustment i did catch that He looked into his crystal ball and thought that one of his better scoring forwards outside of the top guys might shoot one in the net. What a prediction by him. I thought Sheldon was flirting with doing it so late in the hockey game.

Yeah, like the line shuffle? How many times do you have to see Kerfoot miss scoring into a soccer net before you make an adjustment? It's crazy. Didn't he score 15 times last year? What's he got this year? I don't know how that happened. He has seven this year in 64 games, hasn't missed a game,

played a ton in the top six this year. Seven goals. It's pretty stunning. You just can't do it. And also, we need to give some credit to david adam oats camp what a pass what an unbelievable pass to know he's there to execute it you know over top of the back checking forwards what up yeah i think it was hall that threaded the the pass up the opener yeah it was and it was uh it was a hell of a of a pass too yeah. We can't acknowledge Hall makes good plays, though.

I've seen my Twitter mentions. Yeah. Apparently, this guy's the worst player in the league. There's still signs of Justin Hall being Justin Hall. I think it was the 1-1 goal that New Jersey scored. And then, like, 10 seconds after new jersey ties the game up he has one of the worst pinches i've seen in months oh i don't remember it and jack hughes is going down 180 feet on a two-on-one you don't remember that it's suboptimal no i don't

oh it drove me nuts. He has those moments, for sure. I am curious to get your thoughts on Lilligren and how he looked and if anything changed for you with the D with him. No, not really. I think we're not talking about him, so that's a good sign. I thought he was good.

Not even thought, I felt. I felt when he was in, I was like, oh, this feels better. I thought he was good. Yeah. Not even thought. I felt. Yeah. I felt when he was in. I was like, oh, this feels better. I'm glad you brought this up because I wanted to ask you guys this. So last night, Morgan Riley was under 20 minutes. Really? Which can't have happened many times this year.

And they only had 60? And Jake McCabe played the most on the team with 22 minutes. Wow. Oh, no. He was just edged out by on the team with 22 minutes. Well... Oh, no, he was just edged out by TJ Brody with 22-31. Yeah, so... That's the top pair. Morgan is not on the top pair. The top pair is Brody.

It wrote him up as the third pair. That's right. McCabe and Brody were the top pairs. I have to say I barely thought or noticed Morgan Riley last night, and I think that's where he should be aiming for right now to get his game back on track like i think it's better if we come in here and we're not talking about him or noticing him or pointing things out with him it just i like because they

won no but he wasn't yeah they won and he wasn't having a front row seat for the puck going in the back of his net like he does most nights yeah but that's not how the leafs will advance in the playoffs by morgan but you're talking about getting it on track i know yeah i know but he needs to be the number one defenseman for the toronto maple leafs but okay yeah but can't go mccabe brody i think listen i don't he's just i don't like your chances yeah on mccabe brody leading you to the eastern conference final i uh i like mccabe a lot that was a good game that was his best game as a leaf um you know a lot wanted to give him is he you think he's legit top four on a yeah contending team well i mean he is for he is the bulk of his career now he's on a top middle two middle pair on lousy teams yeah yeah but to me the teams he plays on though you understand there is a

history of players being uh number two on a bad team and being a number three on a championship team sure i actually think in chicago he was their second most used guy so i think you know he may be a four then or whatever a three or four but i don't you know he he looked really good to me last night particularly just i love his aggressiveness i love that that he's not scared to go scare somebody in the in the neutral zone he does step up up pretty good. Oh, my gosh. He does better than I've seen any defenseman over the last few years for the Toronto Maple Leafs. But he steps up when it's the right, like he really has a feel.

Labushkin would run at it no matter right or wrong. No, no, he's not Labushkin. No, he's not. Labushkin's a banger, but if he misses his hits, he's cooked. But he stepped right in here, and he's played labushkin's a banger but if he misses his hits he's cooked but he stepped right in here and he's played in four games and over 20 and three of them and 13 in the other one and he had 17 minutes of penalties so yeah it's pretty clear where the coaching staff like it's gone you know it's going up like i i made a few plays in the final minutes protecting the lead blocking a

couple cross crease passes like they see him as a guy in those spots and like i you know i know it's an early sample size but i am incredibly encouraged with what i see from him like i do have belief in him when he's on the ice yeah he's gonna be in that's for darn sure but it is interesting because i do like the other thing that i really believe that needs to be monitored between now and the end of the season is mark giordano i i think there's times when i'd be a lot more comfortable if they just gave him a night off well and you got nine now you know he it's a great time to say i know you want to play every minute every shift and you don't want to fall behind and whatever we're going to make this call for you kind of reminds me and i've referenced this all the time because it really bothered me when marlo wouldn't be a healthy

scratch before the playoffs because he's trying to rest him because of his streak it to me that was super selfish and i feel like giordano if it's the best thing for him it'll be the best thing for the team yeah like i know there's know there's a big deal on, you know, him becoming the most successful shot blocker in NHL history. But, I mean, they're going to start giving him most icings in NHL history soon, I think. Because every time there's heat, man, it's like gone. Fire down the ice. Yeah. And that's a sign to me man it's like gone fire down the ice yeah and well that's a sign to me

where it's like okay can we just not ask him to play 17 20 minutes at 39 years of age 82 times yeah will this be instead of a shield will they give him a official with his arm up i i can data this up i I'm going to find it. Icings. He's got to lead the world. He was tied for the lead last I checked. And the one thing with Gio, and I guess maybe it's just he's gained some respect with the officials. He's got the anti-bunting.

But you sent a screenshot of him last night. Oh, he lassoed somebody in the corner. Kipper, he does that every night. And he gets away with it a lot well good veteran experience great yeah great that he's well respected uh that's a good thing for lee fans yeah it is because he'd be on the it also means that his foot speed's an issue here when you start bear hugging guys in the corner, it means you're generally maybe one step behind, half a step behind.

Yeah, like I get what you're saying. I see a lot of good stuff he does. I don't want him tired either. I want him as Mark Giordano's best, and the Leafs will need him to be. Yeah, the D situation is heating up for me because, again, liked having Lilligren in, thought McCabe's really good,

Hall's played some good hockey lately. You can't say that. That's not right. Oh, that's right. I'm not allowed to say that. Incorrect. I missed that. Sorry.

Justin Hall's played good hockey lately. The internet doesn't like that. I liked, actually, on the goal that ended up in their net, the third one, the little trickler that found its way through, he smoked Meyer along the boards again. Haldit. Yeah, he's been more physical lately for sure. It seems that he's really made an effort to be more physical.

And he probably knows. That's how I get in the playoff lineup. I think there's a lot of guys that are seeing how many options there are. And they think that they have to elevate their game. And if you're Hald, you're a UFA at the end of this year. If you stay in and you're important for the Leafs in playoffs, what's he worth versus a guy who can't get in the lineup? What's the difference to him?

It's millions. Part of that playoff look that I saw last night includes minimal opportunities on a power play. But they had two. And the most important one won the mohawk game it's such you know the leafs have like the good power play statistics such leaf power play goals like you know a weird kind of broken playoff and entry where they finish it's like once they get into their structure they kill their own penalty but they're pretty good when they're just kind of zipping it around getting set up and things fall apart austin matthews scored his fifth career go-ahead goal in the final five minutes of a game

tied for second most among all players since he entered the nhl only behind david pasternak i thought he had some good looks i thought him and m Mitch Marner were doing Matthews and Marner things last night. I thought he kind of faded a little bit in the back half of the game. But with all great talented players, they just need one opportunity. And he got it on the game-winning goal. Yeah, I really liked it. Were you okay with him last night? Yeah, you know, before he buries that one

he had the one timer like a really fast twitch he was kind of backing up and vanacek robbed him with a glove save i i liked seeing that from matthews like found a soft spot bam you know got a good piece of it it's you know he was testing him you know he's he's getting some looks the thing that's different for me with him is, like, not carrying the puck through the neutral zone, and he doesn't seem as active on the rush, but I thought he was good last night. I liked, I think you kind of nailed it there, Kipper. I thought he had a really good, you know,

I thought maybe not everybody had a very good first period, but I thought at least there were some moments where he looked big, and there was one spot where he actually threw a hit, kind of used his backside, ran a guy into the boards boards but he kind of did start going downhill a little bit towards the end of the game getting the power play shoots in the net but i thought it was progress at least against a good team boy the devils are fast yeah like that fourth line that miles wood is lightning how about hold uh what's his face his lip there who palat was it took the change topic i just remembered that i i think again that

that bodes well for toronto maple leafs that uh their their bottom six last night went up against one of the better bottom six in the national hockey league including three goals from a a third line last night and they managed to not only stay in the game but finding a way to win it i i think that's that's a good measuring stick for the bottom six last night against a very good devil's bottom six yeah and that's going to be something that supposedly is different with this leaves team is having that group you know holmberg didn't do much for me steve's fine you know but holmberg other than those guys you know i thought aston reese camp achari bunting

those guys did a good job in that spot steve's just can't be a playoff option he threw a massive hit in the first shifter to the game big hit but pontus only got playing six minutes and 50 seconds last night one other thing that stood out for me last night that i did not like going into the last 18 games of the season that you needed 26 minutes out of mitch marner last night and listen he's he's an engine i i i don't necessarily uh worry about him not handling some nights like that. I just don't know if you need another half a dozen of those 26, 27-minute night games out of him. If you need them that badly going down the stretch when you're you're deeper now and the

other thing is is like the more minutes you're out there the more chance you can get hurt i just you don't want to put him in a position now unnecessarily add too much strain to him already yeah you're close enough to the end of the season where you know you're lucky of four weeks you get ryan o'reilly back you start messing with a little more dangerous injuries you're in the territory of losing maybe the first round yeah yeah you know he's um he's an interesting guy because the way he plays is he's one of those guys you feel like could just skate forever like if he played 60 minutes and never came off the ice you feel like he could do it he just has that unique ability but if you want a guy to play power play and penalty kill and you obviously want marner doing

both those things and you're chasing the game i understand how it gets away from keith sometimes i think they've done a better job this year than last year in general with him in terms of ice time and i don't know what his averages are just like looking at his game log he does have a chunk of games under 20 minutes in late march or sorry late february but yeah 26 you don't want anyone playing that much too much yeah i agree but trying to win the hockey game yeah yeah he's your best he's your best player yeah like he he's been by far the best player this year he's been there by far best player for the last month it's like what are you supposed to do not put him out there be like well you know i've got to think of he's coaching the game he's trying to win the hockey game but you're your best left winger your highest scoring left winger, your highest scoring left winger when you're down,

you leave on the bench with like nine or ten minutes because we believe that you're trying to drive a point to him that is greater than necessarily needing to win the hockey game at that particular moment. So which one is it? I mean, that's not a – I mean, mean yeah i guess that's a great point like 60 points sitting his ass on the bench and watching kerfoot out there because i take your shifts it's personal that's why it's personal with keith and bunting they've they've known each other forever

yeah they've probably had this relationship it's it's a personal thing he's trying to teach a lesson which i can't believe that he's playing Kerfoot on the top line. He's got one goal since the year turned 2023. Since New Year's Eve he's got one tuck and he's playing on the top line he had how many chances last night

it's ridiculous. Try someone else. Try Yarncroft. Try anybody else but it just can't be Kerfoot on the top goddamn line. I really hope that the decision to keep Kerfoot over McCann in Seattle, who's just scored his 30th goal, doesn't come back and bite them. Well, it kind of already is, is it not? Well, it wasn't as simple as that, right?

Wasn't it that allowed them to keep Hall and Kerfoot? So you have to take the two of them as a value, which people are just like, bleh. Yeah, that makes them feel better. The other main whipping, the two biggest whipping boys on the Leafs. Come on. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, you'd obviously rather have Jared McCann. I don't know what, I don't, I'm not sure where the true connection is. And you listen to Sheldon all season long. Kerfoot's an important guy, according to him, right? And there's a sense that he's one of the leaders and he's likable and the guys love having him around.

But the one thing that kind of sticks with me with the Kerfoot thing is that and maybe you can tell me this because you know Sheldon or I'm sorry you know Kyle better than any of us in the room right now is was there a part of not letting Kerfoot go because I need one face to prove that my trade with Colorado wasn't a complete disaster when I traded Kadri. Yeah, like you would never, ever get him to say that. But I can see it, right? I mean, I know that has to play into your... No way. Everyone knows that trade is a

10 out of 10 disaster already. Oh, you don't think if they win the cup and Kerfoot's lifting the Stanley Cup, he's looking at people going... He's right, you're wrong. He's right, and you're wrong. Yeah, when Kerfoot bangs 25 off the

glass again on the way to the final. It's the reason why kerfoot stays 55 minutes on the number one line and has nothing to show for it it has to be i mean he's i think he's an effective guy i just you're right the problem is they see what you see in the left side is like he's like yeah put yarn croc up there like okay oh you can shoot it in the net i know but i'm just saying like they don't have other guys you know at that position you've highlighted that i so if it is a personal thing it's you know at least they can justify it by saying who should it be do you like it to be aston reese would you like it to be you know like it's

reminds me of a guy we had, Marley's Colin Smith. Yeah, and who else is right in the drop? But yeah, you just he's Flex Seal. Sammy nailed it. Kerfoot's Flex Seal. Slap him on any problem. It's not a permanent solution to anything, but it'll get you through the day.

That dinghy sinking with the Flex Seal. That I see where Slap the tape on the boat. Do you not care how ugly your boat has just become? Do you not care how ugly your basement looks? I get you don't want the water in it, but you're not inviting anybody over to see that. Well, that's where it's at with Kerfoot in these positions.

It's like, it'll get us through until we find a real solution for this problem. I'm just... Like, I was legitimately pissed off last night watching it. Like, I just, there's been some things recently with Sheldon that have been robbing me the wrong way. I'll just say that. The only option he had then is Yarn Croc. Okay. Because the bunch of things they're looking to send him is a shoe.

Yeah. Try something, literally anything else. Yeah. He's been playing well. I don't disagree with Sheldon. Clearfoot? Yeah. He's been playing very well. Literally anything else. He's been playing well. I don't disagree with Sheldon. Curve foot? Yeah. He's been playing very well.

Oh, yeah. He's been playing great. Just banging him off the end glass from the slot. If I get all the opportunities he's had in the last month, though, I got a few more. I'm telling you. Agree. I fully agree.

And you're playing on the top line. I don't need a defensive responsibility and fast skaters. Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz. Sorry, boys. I'm just upset about it. That's all right like, fast skater. Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz. Sorry, boys. I'm just upset about it. That's all right there, Flex Seal Sammy. Sammy's a permanent solution. Oh, by the way, let's do some rivalry train action here.

Oh, yeah. Ride it. All right. Better rep. I'm getting my sheets ready here. Molson Canadian wants to give you and a friend the ultimate hockey fan experience through their Molson Canadian wants to give you and a friend the ultimate hockey fan experience through their Molson Canadian rivalry train contest. This includes a round train trip.

A round train trip. That's not right. From Toronto to Ottawa to go see your Leafs take on the Sens April 1st. With food, beverage included at the game as well as an overnight hotel accommodation. To enter, all you have to do is tune into our show, Real Kipper and Born, every day this week and listen for the code word. And then text it to 59590. Today's code word is Senators. Text Senators to 59590 right now for your chance to win.

And we'll have another code word tomorrow's episode, so be sure to tune in. You must be 19 years of age to enter. All right, with that, from Flex Seal Sammy, we go to break. And upon our return return we'll have mike feud a former nhl executive sportsnet hockey analyst and we'll get his thoughts on last night and where the leafs go from here in the next 18 games you're watching and listening to real kipper

and born. Dive deep into Toronto sports and the NFL. The JD bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is real Kipper and born on sports net five 90. The Van. So just about five seconds before we came back on air,

I go to JB, is there anything in Luke Fox's article on Rasmus Sandin we should know about? He goes, I didn't read it. I didn't read it either. That's why he's on the show, because we didn't read it, and he needs to tell us now how much the Leafs miss Rasmus Sandin. Am I right, Luke? Oh, my goodness.

I'm glad you guys are doing your prep. It's been a long year, man. Cut us some slack. What an intro. Well, basically, the whole premise of the article was kind of, it's all about opportunity. In Toronto, he wasn't getting any, you know, Sheldon Keefe basically said point blank, if we were healthy, he was going to be the odd man out when the playoffs started, just as he was the odd man out last season. And this is one that was one of the young, bright spots in the Leafs system that you'd like to see take a step and get some traction. But there was no lane for him as a left shot who only plays the left side. Morgan Riley just signed a monster

extension he's supposed to be a power play quarterback offensive puck mover type skill guy how was he ever gonna find a path to really make some inroads into the top four it was going to be tough for him so I saw a lot of you know Leaf fans reacting to the fact that he got five points in two games with the washington capitals posted uh you know career high over 25 minutes in ice time and it just kind of drills home what doesn't work for one organization can work for the for another organization with the exact same player fun fact rasmus Sandin is the only left-shot defenseman under contract for the Capitals next season. So, of course, they're going to go out and find some more.

You know, they're selling off Cussison and Orloff and John Carlson. He's a righty. He's been hurt for a long time. So it's kind of paved this open path for Sandin to get all this ice time and get to feed Ovechkin at the circle and all these great things. But, you know, even if they go out and get a defenseman or two, he's probably going to have some traction there.

And yes, it's the worst team, but this is a great trade in my mind for Sandin, A, and for Brian McClellan, B. And we'll see. It could end up being a great one for the Leafs. We'll see what they do with the pick. We'll see if Gustafson ends up jumping in and helping in the playoffs. But at this point, I think we can say this is a great opportunity for Sandin

that he wasn't going to get in Toronto. Right, right. So, Luke, first off, let me just say I do read everything you write and enjoy your work. You know, I feel like I got buried off the top of the show. It just didn't come across my feed yet. But I will ask you about... It's still early in the day.

Yeah, well, I should have read it. But I do want to ask you about the decision to not accept a pickback, but rather to take Gustafson given their D situation. And he looks to be there, whatever you want to call him, eighth guy. But is there a situation where he's in and involved with this year's Leafs team? Yeah, I do think there's a situation. Right now, it sort of feels like the situation might be an injury.

Although, you know, we got 18 games. He was a healthy scratch in Jersey. He saw pretty limited minutes. In his very first shift, the poor guy, the puck hopped over his stick, and they scored a shorthanded goal on him in Calgary. Like, that was a really rough look. But, hey, he piled a bunch of points in washington he's a veteran he's kind of similar like similar strengths to sandin actually um he just has more experience and he

has some playoff experience he can be counted on a little bit because he's a veteran but i i just think it's more about hey we're looking at not just winning one round. We're looking to go on a deep run. And if you look at teams that go on a deep run, how often do they reach into their seventh, eighth, ninth defenseman? Pretty often. It's very rare for all D-men to be healthy and playing well. And maybe it lights a fire under the six guys who are playing, too. On that road trip, talking to Justin Hall,

like, you saw his game. All of a sudden, he's hitting people. He's, like, way more engaged. I really liked his game. And part of it, you have to think, and he even admitted, has to do with the internal competition all of a sudden. You know, different type of player, Gustafson and Hall, but the fact that they brought in Shen as well and McCabe, I think all of a sudden you have NHL-ready guys, a type of player, Gustafson and Hall, but the fact that they brought in Shen as well and McCabe,

I think all of a sudden you have NHL-ready guys, a bunch of them, ready to take your spot if you're slipping or if you're banged up. And Dubas is betting on, you know, having that depth is better than having a second pick. Now, he didn't say what round that second pick is. I'm guessing it's like, you know, fifth, sixth, seventh. I'm guessing it's like, you know, fifth, sixth, seventh. I'm guessing it's a later round pick.

But he'd rather have a warm body ready to go in case of injury. And it also lights a fire on the current top six. We're talking to Luke Fox, star writer for the Sportsnet.ca. And an amazing article on Rasmus Sandin. If you get a chance, read it. I feel like a bag of crap right now because you think I threw you under the bus. Cause you did.

Luke, I'm sorry. There's a lot of content out there. There's a lot of content. All kidding aside here yeah that's me running you over right there when you moments ago when you uh described morgan riley you used the word supposed to be and when does that become more concerning for you moving forward how long out of 18 games do leaf fans sammy you need to see morgan being morgan morgan being the guy that uh is the number

one defenseman for the toronto maple leafs yeah i i actually asked Keefe about that on the road trip, and he kind of hemmed and hawed about how he would assess Riley's play, and he said he has another level to get to here, and it's hard to deny it. He hasn't quite been himself, and I think a lot of that has to do with the constant stream of different partners. I mean, even on that one road trip, he had Shen, he had Hall,

he had Lilligran in Jersey. And for me, whenever, you know, I think Morgan Riley is what he is. He's an offensive defenseman. He plays best when he has a security blanket next to him. And that, to me, is TJ Brody. Now they're really trying to create this ultimate shutdown pair of two guys who prioritize defense over jumping up in the rush in Brody and McCabe. And they're getting tons of ice time, and they look pretty good.

And part of that, Sheldon Keith has explained is you know you bring a new guy in you want him to set him up for success and Brody seems to be the fixer he sets everybody up for success because the easiest guy to play with he'll play left side he'll play right side he'll hang back he's got a great stick and intercept passes he makes other guys look good and he does it kind of quietly um well quietly both on the ice and off the ice i mean the guy hardly ever says a word he's just like this this you know mr consistency is what they call him in the room uh but it i think morgan riley plays best with him so you subtract um brody from riley and all of a sudden the flaws that Riley has get exposed.

I think his confidence has taken a hit this season. He seldom likes to talk about himself, but I'm sure if you were to pump him with truth serum, he'd say that the pressure of this massive seven-year contract, he's in the first year of it, is probably weighing on him a little bit. He probably feels a bit bad that he's not producing more five on five and on the, on the power play that it took him forever to score his first goal this season.

So I think there's probably a mental strain and it hasn't been helped because it's a turnstile of partners with them. And I wonder in these next few games, like game one of the playoffs if they don't set him up back with Brody just to make him feel good and to have more balance

in the pairs. There is a temptation I think when you get a new guy and I'm thinking of Jake McCabe here to give them too much and this team has done that a couple times. They get a new toy and they throw them right in the first line and say hey this is your chance to shine and then it doesn't quite work out and you start feeling bad mccabe they've really put in a softer landing spot he

played with brody second pair a little bit um you know kind of give riley the bulk of the minutes it feels like mccabe has now worked himself into a spot where he's going to be one of the top four what have you thought of his place so far and where he likely fits into that rotation come playoff time yeah I've really liked him Justin and and that philosophy of setting guys up just as an aside I wonder if that started from the Tyson-Berry experiment and how he wasn't set up in a position to succeed. I almost feel like they've really tried to maybe overcompensate a little bit from the Babcock era when Spezza comes in and he gets healthy as scratch and Berry comes in and, no, we're not giving you the power play.

And guys weren't put in a place to feel comfortable right away. It seems Dubas and Kiefer going out of their way to make new guys feel extra comfortable, even if that means going 11-7 when the coach doesn't really like that and it throws things out of whack. But back to McCabe, I really liked him. I should probably double-check,

but I believe he hasn't been on for a goal against yet at even strength, which is fantastic. I mean, that's what you bring him in for, just to prevent goals and let the other guys generate the offense. The other thing is I talked to John Tavares after that really nasty hit by Tyler Myers, clean but hard. And he went on about how he appreciated McCabe sticking up for him,

and especially as a new guy who is just trying to find his way with the team, didn't know a ton of Leafs before, is just kind of getting acclimatized to new surroundings. This is going to be his first taste of the playoffs ever. And I think just something like that, so much as the willingness to drop the gloves, even though he got dinged for like 17 penalty minutes on that play, I think endeared him a lot to the teammates.

I really like him. I'm quickly becoming a fan. You know, nothing flashy. And you kind of wonder, like, could they have spent a little bit more to get at home or chikrin but for the price they paid the fact that he has term on the deal i think he slots in really nice and i think he's gonna be a fixture in the top four come playoff time is luke shen a top fixture for you in the top six no i think he i think he's in and out and i think it depends how that the temperature of the series uh i wouldn't be surprised you remember when uh heading into the

the tampa series last year nick and shelvin keith i forget the exact quote but he was talking about expecting violence and he started Clifford and started Simmons. I think that the hype around this series, I think it's going to even be bigger this year, and the intensity, because it's kind of like we're going through the motions here. For months, we've known who's going to battle who. So I would not be surprised to see Shen in the top six for that first game

just because of his experience and the fact that he's willing to lay the body and clear people out. But I think he's a guy who's on the fringe, in and out of the lineup, depending how the series is going. I don't think his spot in the top six is guaranteed. And even when they made the trade, they said one of the things they liked about him is that he's willing to play that role. He's not going to be a high maintenance guy where you have to worry about his ego. If you have to bench him for a while and then bring him in when there's an injury or you want

a different look. So to me, he's a six slash seven and we see a little bit of them, but his minutes will be limited. If they're up by two goals, he could get more shifts. If they're down by a goal, he could get sta shifts if they're down by a goal he could get stapled to the bench because they want to generate offense luke quick one for me here do you have any thoughts on tampa bay stinking it up right now i mean is this this we can't get leafs fans can't get their hopes too high can they over this no um i mean if i i feel like we'd be foolish to count their ability to turn it on when it matters most. I think this is this sort of lull of, you know, knowing who your first round opponent is, knowing that your your playoff spot isn't in jeopardy.

I think it's taken a toll on some Leafs and it's certainly on some lightning. I am curious about to see what happens if there's, if this, you know, if there's more to come out of the benching of, of point Kutrov stamp coast, I don't feel like that was a one-off that there must've been something behind the scenes leading up to that, because that is such a bold card to play. And if anyone could get away with it,'s john cooper but uh you know they got vasilevsky um there's some concern over headman's health now but you know that just much like ryan

o'reilly i would expect everyone to be up and running in time for the playoffs this team's going to turn it on and to be quite honest i can't wait for that series to start. One more here, Luke, before I let you go. Last night, the spear heard around the hockey world. Tony D'Angelo spears Corey Perry from Tampa Bay.

I'm wondering now if we had to pick one Toronto Maple Leafs to pull a Tony D'Angelo now out of this grittier, nastier, sandpaper Toronto Maple Leaf roster, who would you pick? Well, I think that would be Michael Bunting, but I think McCabe or Shen would have to step in and help him out. Nice.

That's definitely the scenario, by the way. All right, man. Listen, I want you to know something. Tonight when I go home, I'm Googling every article you've written in the last three years and I'm reading them all. Kip, we'll be back on our show

in two years. Okay. And in return, I'll play next rewards. You're a good man, Luke. Thanks for doing this, pal. Thanks, Luke. Luke Fox, Sportsnet.ca.

Just to touch up on his article, you think Leaf fans more than anyone else hate it when guys do well when they leave? Does that bother you? You remember the early Campbell returns here were delightful. Do you not just give in to the fact that no no matter what it wasn't going to work out here and you can still do great things other places or you one of those guys that it just really bothers you i think it depends what you feel about the player like if you were convinced that sandin was the future then you're always going to be like see but i never was i was trading him in the off

season i've been trading him for a long time with sandin so i never i'm not the right guy to ask because i never really believed in the upside like a lot of people did so i'm maybe not the right guy to ask but i think it's just what you feel as a player if you're one of your favorite players gets traded and you're projecting right like there's even people that are you know the engvall letting him go and people think the bottom six looks worse since he left. Like, it's if you like a guy that gets traded away, you're going to find stats and

stuff to fit your narrative to fill it. So, anyways. Yeah, just move on. You mentioned the Spear last night, and both of you guys have played a ton of hockey in your life. If you're going to power rank the greasiest moves on the ice where does

that rank yeah i would say just behind only maybe a slew foot and a eye gouge or something in a pile it's bad right that's a high-end grease move yeah it is it is but not but you're like but not that bad now listen come on ends, spears. They happen on occasion. I got to sit here and tell you I've never speared anybody before. Butt ends really dirty, too. You can hide that with your glove and just give a little cuff. Yeah.

But make them eat the butt end. Yeah. That's a dirty one for sure. Yeah, I really miss that stuff. I think if I was gonna power rank i think i think the spear is overblown i would agree i'm not that upset about it and people get really like really upset a slew foot is 10 times more dangerous yeah a knee is 10 times more dangerous that's greasier and i'm watching it last night and no one's ever like mentioned that

maybe cory perry deserved it i don't think you're allowed to why why maybe maybe he had it coming maybe he had it coming i don't i didn't watch the game i don't know the history there but you know cory but there might be the small part of a someone's gonna get you cory eventually your catches up to you i almost tweeted it the gift uh last night with the larry david gift doing the old you know d'angelo spears perry and you're like well you know it's okay it's perry like you know everyone wants to spear cory perry at different times and come on you're playing for the philadelphia flyers you're going nowhere yeah what do you care if he gets to spend

it for three games four games i guess just money at that might be the best 75 grand you can spend getting to spear cory perry although then you have to deal with the tampa bay lightning who do not like when you hurt one of their guys which is another topic of conversation and just their their natural reaction to go squirrely when you go after one of their guys it's like you're holding a bag of loose bread and they're seagulls. I absolutely love watching them protect one another. Yeah, I agree. It kills me.

You don't have to like fighting. You don't have to whatever. It's awesome to see you guys stick up for one another so instinctively. It is somewhat worrisome for the Toronto Maple Leafs to watch that natural reaction when you've been an organization that has like not had that hard to avoid that type of reaction yeah I don't know well that part but they just haven't had it they haven't like oh no you've had opportunities to watch austin matthews get ragdolled by ben charotte or travis connect me like go try pulling that stuff on tampa bay

oh i know i'm saying with the leafs organization i don't think that they actively don't want it i just think that the players just don't yeah yeah it's not my job in there yeah want and have are two different conversations and it's like you, they look at their resume and go, I don't see that in my player description. The other clip that came into my feed yesterday because of that was the one earlier in the year. But I forget who it was. Someone hit a goalie.

They bumped Vasilevski. Yes. And literally all five guys all threw their gloves on. None on hands and none on the ice. They're all in the air now to be fair to the new look toronto maple leaves we just touched moments ago on mccabe's reaction on the tavaris hit and there is a real belief here that these new found guys will have a much better reaction to what we've been accustomed to prior to the trades.

You know what would be the best thing to happen to this Maple Leafs team in the next five games? A knockdown, drag out, yeah, like a full yard sale of gear on the ice, pile up, no one gets hurt. I don't think they still have that lineup. No one gets hurt, but it would be fascinating have that line no one gets hurt but it would be fascinating just to get that sort of camaraderie built where you're like oh so we're a new group we're one here a brawl would be spectacular and there's a team that they don't particularly like

that is chasing down a playoff spot that is coming into scotia bank arena on monday night yeah let's get a brawl going matthews please i want my prediction to be correct that his first fight will be against aline i love this because it's a natural segue to icings i looked it up while we were talking to someone i don't remember who um most icings in the nhl out of 883 players to have played this year sorry close oh yeah real close 892 players have played this year in the nhl second giordano he's second place the second most icing in the nhl but i'm fascinated by this first by the way 48 icings for giordano 48 that's a lot oh my gosh but i'm curious he's a baker 60 some here's here's what i'm fascinated by if there's a type of player so here's the top 10 i'm just going to read them

off quickly most in the nhl is rasmus doline that was my segue huh most in the nhl is the guy who you know second place for the norris trophy probably this year then it's brent burns chris letang dougie hamilton vince dunn brady shea neil pionk alex petrangelo hampus lindholm all good defensemen yeah but like kind of offensively puck movie movery types so failed march passes was what that's kind of what i'm thinking but guys looking for the bomb g or nano seemed to be much more like oh my god i need to take a knee than trying to spring a guy for a breakaway it's a lot more explainable for Gio

than it is some of the star defensemen that you mentioned yeah like Gio it's like veteran savvy that little hold that doesn't get called the icing to take a break so what you're telling me is Mark Giordano is an elite defenseman in the NHL he's actually one of the 10 best guys in the league

that's my point how far is he away from being the all-time career icing guy? I bet he is. I bet he is. He's been in the league forever. He aces it every game. You can put that beside your shin pad. Oh my God, give him a Stanley

Cup because if your trophies are icings and shin pads, that's tough. Oh my God. god listen he's a legend i know no disrespect we have uh john tortorella on the spear we do have the tortorella on this day would you like to hear him talk let's go to one more kipper clipper yeah i i haven't seen i haven't seen the clip what happened uh guys in the room said it's pretty obvious what happened. But that's the line you walk as far as going over the edge. I want him to have his personality, to have that competitiveness. You know, like a couple of guys that I did sit,

I wish a little bit of that would rub off on them. But, again, I haven't seen it, but I think he may have crossed the line, judging from what some of the other guys said. So, yeah, you've got to be careful. And easy to say that that's part of who Tony is, and I think he's done a pretty good job this year in staying on that line peak torts as this guy

spears a guy in the nuts and gets suspended and he goes I wish my other guys were like that he has no idea what to say there right he's like I like it I want to be like the adult in the room but I absolutely loved it what's wrong with our other guys that they would not be willing to do that but you shouldn't do

that and he's also like you know real easy but yeah you shouldn't do that and he's also like you know real easy to say you shouldn't spear a guy in the nuts but you know a lot harder not to do it's like wait hold on have you seen i want to explain it to you i would this could be the highlight of the year torts loved it loved it yeah it was a greasy one too like from behind the scrum like he came sneaking in and just caught him. Yeah, it was. I'm just quickly watching Sidney Crosby score the OT winner last night for the Penguins, down 4-0 to the Blue Jackets, and they came back to win last night.

76 points for Sid in 63 games. It's just... Tied with William Nylander, by the way. It just seems like the last few years, and probably mcdavid's the biggest at fault because he has been the face of the league now for a few years but it gets kind of forgotten and they're not a top team so you tend to pay less attention, but he's so frigging good still. The guys in the league with 76 points are Crosby, Nylander, Jack Hughes, and Nathan McKinnon.

Yeah. You know, like he's in an elite pack of humans there still at this point of his career. That's tied for 12th in the NHL in points right now. Yeah, he's two good nights away from the top 10 in the NHL still yeah so breaking on kipper and born uh crosby good and i i hate to pick on an old friend but watch the highlights michael hutchinson net for for columbus last night that what a tank move that is he get rid of corpus allo bring me the hutch boy this is like one step removed from a tutor shooter if you're the islanders the other teams in the playoff chase in the in the east you're like come on like come on columbus you gotta try a little yeah so sid has uh 1485 points in 1171

games so he's got to, I'm probably not going to get to 1,500 this year, but by the time his career is done, boys, those numbers are going to be looking pretty gaudy. Like, it's just, it's rare that a guy comes in and with that much hype, and I know he was like the chosen one.

Like, it's hard to live up to that. And he has just blown past the expectations for me. Like, i remember his whole career and i didn't remember him like did you think he'd be this good when he first came in you don't you don't think he's gonna be like this like an all-time legend it's hard to live up to that height man sid sid there's been so many guys there's been so many guys he he was the next one for sure everybody knew he was gonna be greatard, same or bigger hype or comparable for you? Oh, God, that's a good question.

Because Bedard seems to be the only person I can remember since McDavid to have this level of hype. Yeah, that's a good question i don't i worry about bedard not being a future hall of famer than i ever did for sid and i don't know why maybe maybe i feel like what's bedard five he's not as big or as strong as even sid appeared early in his career yeah i listen but not saying conor bedard's not gonna be the all-time point getter on earth i have no idea Even Sid appeared early in his career. Yeah, listen. But not saying Connor Bernard's not going to be the all-time point getter on earth. I have no idea about the kid.

No idea. I'm just comparing the hype levels. And yeah, it feels, I don't know. Did Austin Matthews have a level of hype that's comparable to these guys? No, for one very good reason. He was playing in Switzerland. Played in Switzerland, the USHL, and no one had the opportunity. TSN or Sportsnet didn't have the opportunity to overhype him. Meanwhile, Bedard is selling out the Saddledome.

Yeah, thanks for the World Juniors. Yeah. I watched his game last Friday night. Really exciting Friday night. Did he score? He scored four goals. Oh. Oh. Yeah.

But his last game he played, which was March 5th, he had zeros and he was a dash five. So not a great night against the Saskatoon Blades. Not a great night for Connor Bedard. As we like to do

for random stuff at the end of our show is we just like pull random things. Looking at the leaderboard for the Art Ross trophy. And obviously McDavid is up 30 points on his teammate, Dreisaitl and blowing everything out of the water.

Kucherov is third in the NHL in scoring this year, like 91 points in 64 games dash four on Tampa Bay. They won last night. Tampa did. Yeah. Tell me his ice time last night. Oh, I love what we're doing here. He played 18-33.

Did he? Show me a rift. Okay. He did. I thought it was, I thought it, I don't know why I had the impression that he played a lot less. Nope. But he did.

He played. He did. Okay. He had three points and he was minus one. So everything's fine and dandy again. Yep. Three points and minus one. Well, listen, look at the second guy in the league.

The dry cycle. He's got, what has he got, 96? He's dash whatever. Dash two. Yeah. On the Oilers, who are good. Yeah, it's just, listen. You're playing top competition.

They get a lot of points in the power play. They are power play merchants the oilers i cannot believe even in wayne gretzky's heyday of 200 plus points that connor's passed him for all time points in a season on the power play is that right you know that no you know what i feel like sammy please tell me i'm correct i'll look it up right now so connor has 58 power play points and i think gretzky uh had the record at 55 or 56 so power play percentage has gone up pretty consistently for 20 some years and this is the best run in history yeah they just didn't call penalties for half of his. I also feel like he had 61 power play points in 93-94 with the Kings. And he had 57 with the Oilers in 81-82.

So 57 with the Oilers. So McDavid now is 58. So yeah, he will pass his power play point total. That's with 200-point seasons. You know what it reminds me of, though? How things weren't optimized for points like they are now like the three points in basketball no one shot three pointers reggie miller was one of the best shooters i can remember peja stojakovic ray allen ray out those guys don't have the number the three

point numbers of guys today who shoot threes all the time power plays to me are kind of similar where things have been optimized like how to generate on the power play guys stay up for a minute and a half was it more common when you played to have two clear units and do minute minute you know now it's like 75 of the power play goes to the top guys the west has sucked since mcdavid's take a look at the rangers right now do you see what's going on with their power play shooting too many star chefs in the kitchen here and i think uh the number one power play now for the rangers has trocheck and um and uh uh lapierre lafreniere yeah sorry no no get them all mixed up uh lafreniere and no cane no no uh it's here i got it on daily face off lafreniere trocek panarin cane fox yes

so no second one second power play cry riders abanajad he don't tarasenko truba power play yeah god they got a lot of good players boys i love this is a this should inspire how about uh like gerard gallant now trying to keep everybody happy well that i know that was one of your things about bringing in top end guys here is who comes off the power play i guess you just have to go to two power plays and hope one of them's humming problem is you don't get enough power plays to decide who's humming you know you get one good shift or one bad shift or you know your coach goes out we're going to the other unit i don't know if that's right i this should be inspiring to sheldon keith

that you're allowed to have a second power play unit yeah and i know now it's hard because you got o'reilly out and whatever you say about devar but like, you can have two units to me. And this is, I like... Trouba can shoot the puck. I mean, he's not... I would never consider him a power play specialist, but... He can bomb it. He's got a bomb. Yeah. Fox is cheeky.

That's a great... They have, yeah, they're stacked. Eastern Conference, boys. Is, uh, someone mentioned Fox sneaking in for another Norris. Oh, yeah? Right now, I've got Morrissey, Norrissey. Dougie Hamilton's got over 60 points. Rasmus Dahlien is third with 63 points.

I don't like Norris trophy winners to non-playoff teams like eric carlson could score 100 points this year right yeah he's gonna win it in a landslide is my guess see i i don't agree with that i agree kipper i i mean i i think control does he have over his bad team aside from playing the best he can and being good. Playing 25 minutes a game. He's been amazing in them. He's dash eight. His team stinks. If his team was in the playoffs race all season long, would he still take chances? Would he still jump up on the play?

Would he still? It changes kind of the scope of your ability to, I think, go score points. My view of how these trophies are meant to be handed out is, who's been the best in the league at that position and so if you take into account your point about maybe he'd play differently if they were different that's a good point i'll hear that for sure that like they're bad enough that he can do whatever he wants no one really cares i'm going to get my three apples and always been at his best when he gets to do whatever the hell he wants on the ice. But, you know, by that token, I don't feel like a team trying to win,

you're on a bad team and playing great. Like, Darlene, to me, I would never penalize him because the Buffalo Sabres aren't well built around him or the goaltending's been suspect. Well, and they're in the hunt. Are they not? Yeah, yeah, they're all for sure there. Quinn Hughes has 60 points, huh?

He's another sleeper guy, but non-playoff team. Fastest defenseman in the history of the NHL to 200 assists. Quinn Hughes, yeah. That's baffling. And he beat Brian Leach by a point? By a game. By a game. Yeah.

How do the Canucks have so many good players and be so bad? Because they're half pregnant. Yeah. They're trying to suck and trying to win at the same time somehow. I have no idea what the hell they're doing. I would say the sneakiest season by a defenseman this season is Brandon Montour's 50 points in Florida this year. He's playing a ton of minutes. I was going to say he probably just plays the whole game.

I'm just seeing. Oh, my God.. He probably just plays the whole game. I'm just seeing. Oh, my God, yes. He does play the whole game. Yeah. And he's 24 or 25 minutes a night. Yeah, I kind of agree, Kipper, that he is going to win it, but, like, I don't know. Carlson.

He's going to have 100 points. You can't not give it to him. He's going to win. But they should have two categories. They should have the best offensive defenseman, the best defensive defenseman. Another like a guy like a guy that what would by the way that is also how i vote for the heart trophy and i've made this case a million times i've written about it we're trying to figure out who had the best year you know and who who's the

best player this season all other contexts whatever you know like mcdavid's it by if they miss the playoffs whatever he's the best player in the league give it to him yeah i guess but i oh go ahead go ahead i was just gonna say the highest it's the easiest way to do it is the highest scoring defenseman gets a trophy and then the north and then there's the norris yeah like the art like the art ross highest score right yeah the art ross for defenseman call it the the Ray Bork or the Paul Coffey or whatever. The Fart Ross because no one cares. Or the Paul Coffey award or whatever.

Let's just get rid of trophies. What? Participation trophies? Just one. The Stanley Cup. That's it. There's only one cup. The only one that matters.

The people voting don't know what they're doing anyways. 90% of the time, that's true. All right. How many games on tap? Just three tonight. Yeah, not many good ones. God, the Leafs got to play more games. What's going on?

Next week, boys, we're playing all the hockey. All right. Okay. Our thanks to Mike Fuda and Luke Fox, who I got a lot of homework tonight. I got a lot of Luke Fox homework tonight. Alright, thanks for joining us for the last two hours putting up with us and we get to do it again

tomorrow on the Real Kipper Inborn Show.