Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Part Ways with Brendan Shanahan

Episode Date: May 22, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee reflect on Brendan Shanahan's tenure with the Toronto Maple Leafs after it was announced today the team will be parting ways with its long-time President. Sportsnet studio host David Amber (13:00) weighs in on Shanahan's 11-year tour of duty, the evolution of the President's role, where the Leafs' organization needs to improve post-Shanahan and the front office's next steps. Then, they get into Team Canada's stunning elimination from the Hockey World Championship quarterfinals at the hands of the hosting Team Denmark, the Oilers' third-period collapse in Game 1 and Stuart Skinner's concerning play in the WCF opener. Later, they regroup with Sam to discuss the upcoming docuseries on the 1980s Oilers, The Great Ones.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

We are live for our 5pm Eastern special one hour edition of Real Kipper and Bourne. We are live on Sportsnet 590 The Fan, Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver and Sportsnet 960 in Calgary. This hour of Real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Beth365, Nick Kipriels, Justin Boran, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, and Jake the Snake Schultz. Jen? Oh, it is Jen. Yeah. I got no names at all on them.

No, it's Jen today. It's Jen. Welcome aboard, Jen. All right. I can tell it's Jen because all of, it's a different style of shooting for television. Is that right? We're a're a little closer a little softer Sure where anyone stands on

The official announcement that Brendan Shanahan is no longer a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs on the executive leadership team it was a An announcement that became official maybe a few hours ago three hours ago I'll start with you JB just in terms of Big surprise not a surprise at all Yeah, not a surprise at all You know, I think we made that clear earlier and throughout this week that we expected it to happen at some point Brad tree-living they have announced, will keep his job.

Elliott Friedman reported that. Yeah, it's tough to really know. Here's my comparison for the Shanahan era. It's a lot like the John DeVaris contract that he oversaw come here, where I don't think you can look at it and go, well, that was an abject failure, but it definitely didn't get you where you hoped it would mmm is that a fair comparable I love that I think that's very well done you know in

both cases you can't leave going it went pretty good yeah like you know there's other ways it could have gone worse could have gone better it's okay yeah Brendan put out an official statement right yeah you have in front of you I can find it here quick yeah you find it in front of you? I can find it here quickly. Yeah, you find it, because you're the... I put it behind it, it's the front... No, I put it... You're the rear on the show. You think I'm good at this?

Okay. Yeah, you are. Oh, that boy. It's pretty small. I think I got my glasses on today. Following a meeting today, I was informed that I was no longer going to remain as president and alternative governor of the Toronto May Police.

I want to thank the board of MLSC for the tremendous support they have shown me over my tenure. Toronto is where I was born and raised, where my family still lives, and being a part of the historic franchise will always be one of the greatest honours of my life. I want to thank the entire Maple Leafs staff for their commitment and hard work over the years. They are second to none in the National Hockey League. I want to thank the alumni for all their support and the tremendous work they do at our games

and within the community. Many of them were my heroes growing up and it has been a pleasure to get to know them on a personal level. He's talking about you there, Kipper, for sure. I want to thank the fans for their passion and their loyalty. Your love for the team inspired me every day.

While I'm proud of the rebuild we embarked on starting in 2014, ultimately I came here to help win the Stanley Cup and we did not. There's nothing more I wanted to deliver our fans and my biggest regret is that we could not finish the job. I greatly enjoy working with Brad and Craig. I firmly believe they're excellent in their roles

and have done a great job in their time with the team. Also, I want to thank the players and they're committed and passionate. Oh, I was getting so good. They are committed and passionate about delivering a championship to this city and will do everything within their power to accomplish that goal.

I want to wish them all the very best. Thank you, Brandon. Well done, Sam. Thank you. Only one stumble? No, it's fine, it's well done. And I mean, I know you were kind of saying it tongue in cheek, but I'll talk about that personal part first and foremost that I love that he

mentioned the alumni and the support and the community to me there was no better guy for us as an alumni selfishly speaking than him and at times over the years with the Leafs and a lot of clubs go through this throughout the NHL, is sometimes it's great, sometimes it's not so great, and you kind of get forgotten a little bit, and it's tough on guys that have worn their... Yeah, I was in their Millbury era and it didn't go over well. You grew up with it, right? You know in the island, there's not a lot of teams just yeah, they like you but they don't really like

like yet enough to actually Watch around watch you around invest in you find value in you Brendan was amazing for our alumni and On a personal note. He was always great to me always a gentleman took my calls, had lunch with him on a few occasions. I mean, he tried. You know, we did that show yesterday.

And I thought it was a good show, right? And then I kinda got a little cringey on myself that, that, you know, we sit here and Brendan, Kyle, all those guys, John Ferguson, we go down the path, right? All the way down. They're like, they're made to make really tough decisions. And at the time, you just don't know. And then there's the three of us and thousands of us who have shows that just get to go on the air Sometimes a little pompous And play monday morning armchair quarterback, yeah, and that's all I was yesterday was just After the fact like who can't who can't

No, i'm telling you. No a lot of it's after the fact. Like who can't, who can't. Whoa, whoa, whoa. No, I'm telling ya. No, a lot of it's after the fact. I'll stand by what I said. I'll stand by what I, but, I'm an idiot sometimes because I come across like I had all the answers all along, right? I'm just speaking about me, Sam.

I'm not speaking about anybody else. No, no, it's a great point and I appreciate the point you're making. It's really Hard what they do and all of those decision makers There's only one team that gets to say I did it right every year one Yeah, and the rest of them we can go through Some tough decisions. Well, I mean that list was pretty bad. I It's not the point I'm making

that whiff was pretty bad. It's not the point I'm making. It's not the point I'm making. I do think to make management, I understand the point that Kip is making here, which is not to say that anyone else in those roles would have been mistake-free over the past decade, 11 years, whatever, but I do think it's important to comb through the tenure.

We did. We did. How we got here. We did, for sure. And I'm not, not apologizing for the angles we took or what we said. And I stood by what I said, told you guys last year, somebody's gotta go last year of the core four. And I said, I told you guys last year, Marner's gotta go, you gotta trade him.

You just gotta trade him. He just can't go back to the well again. So I mean, it's not like we completely, Monday morning, armchair quarterback, we stuck with a lot of the things that we said. But yesterday I was like a little over the top. I think it was important to go through it all and you know, whether it was harsh, you know, you can have regrets. I have.

Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. to go through it all and you know whether it's harsh you know you can have regrets I have but that's just maybe the ex-player in me a little bit no absolutely and like I say what I do was doing video coaching if you you can make anyone look good or bad on any given day we have that opportunity to you know highlight certain things as well here so go ahead What do you think? What do you think will be like when people look back on this 10? Yeah in Let's say 15 years. Yeah Will what what will people? Say about it when you're having a you know having a beer with your grandkids What will you say? Maybe not a beer with your grandkids having a beer with your grandkids around Yeah, how will you speak of it? Can I yeah?

so I don't know. How will you speak of it? Can I jump in on that? Yeah, absolutely. So the one thing I wanted to add on the whole Shanahan thing, I moved to Toronto in 2012 and the reputation of the Toronto Maple Leafs when I moved here was not then what it is now. He is leaving them better than he found them. I think they're a bit of a punchline when I first moved here.

I remember there's a cover of, I think they're a bit of a punchline when I when I first moved here. Yeah. I remember the there's a cover of I think the Toronto Sun and it's like Phil Kessel is a superhero and Dionne Faneuf and all this like you know I think the organization's in good shape. I tweeted that for the Islanders fans this would be an awesome hire if they could get Shanahan and I had some people write to me well they didn't win why and I understand that they didn't win but there's a lot that goes into being a president of a major organization. And they are respected, they did things right way

by the alumni, they got a lot right. Okay, but there's a chance you can get a lot right when you have unlimited funds too. And I will say this, he made a great decision because he had to go upstairs or to the board and explain that why he wants to invest money in the alumni and he got it, he got it. But that comes with power, that comes with the funds.

Like there's 29 other general managers or presidents that will go to their owner or their or their board and say I Really want to do this for the alumni and it's like nope. Yeah. Nope. Yeah, so I mean It really helped him that he had the unlimited funds including building Departments that rank amongst the biggest in professional sports at any cost Not sure the ROI on those has been great, you know the large departments it Listen it there's no there's no there's no link. Yeah to success right is your point So where is where is the value and the money and in the departments that we spent and I'm sure as we're speaking

They're combing through that right now. Yeah, I would say that to your point about the punchline thing mm-hmm I think he came in and they were a punchline for one reason, but I wouldn't say with him leaving there any Like on the way out I'd say they're a punchline in a different way like a lot of a lot like as a fan Yeah, looking across the league, and they're all people are always gonna hate on leaf fans, but like his decision which ultimately it is to stick with the core for and try to see it through and And not trade Marner when they had the chance not trade Willie when they had the chance whatever with Matthews all these different things

His decisions. Yes led to where we are now had the chance, whatever with Matthews, all these different things, his decisions led to where we are now. You're a punchline because you're not winning the Stanley Cup, not because you don't matter. It felt like the Leafs didn't matter. Sure, that's for sure. But like the playoff failures of these guys where they've won two rounds over their 90 in their first round stuff and all these different punchlines that have come with it. Like, I understand and I respect his decision to be committed to a core format, I understand,

but he needed to pivot earlier. That's what people will remember is that you, you double down and you triple down. Yes. On the same group. Quadruple down. How do you say nine down? On the same group, quadrupled down. How do you say nine down? On the same group when others said, that's enough.

Yeah, and it's just, it's really hard now that, and you wrote about Marner today, and Toronto Star today. It's a really, I'm sure, part of what was talked about today at their meeting before he was eventually, you know, not having his contract renewed, the handling of Mitch Marner and the way this is gone. Like, I just, I don't know how that isn't a big time factor

in being the president. Like, that is a huge, is. It's a big deal because he's, you gotta explain why a guy that was destined to be the all-time leading point getter in the history of the franchise is walking out the door in the prime of his career. For nothing. For nothing.

Like there is a world where you make the Marner trade two years ago and you have whatever you get back in that and you can look back and have having him leave for nothing and seemingly with this resentment towards the franchise and the hate with the fans and all this stuff is an abject failure it is and it's like it's just that's a huge detriment to his time here where there's lots of great things. And like they, like you said, I used to just be like, can they make the playoffs? And then they never stopped making the playoffs.

And it was a different hurdle that they couldn't get over, but the Marner thing is massive. It just is. So I don't know. We'll see. Okay. Let's go to our first guest. Our only guest.

Our only guest. We're only up for an hour. All right, all right. David Amber. Hey, how you guys doing of sports net NHL and hockey night in Canada? We're, we're well covering the Stanley cup playoffs for sports net. Thanks for joining us on an off day. Correct? Yeah. Yeah. I mean a busy day, obviously with all the news that's breaking. I just heard Canada lost to Denmark. Whoa. What David, just give us a chance to get our breath here on the leafs before we

go to the rest of the country. Okay. Just, just your overall thoughts after 11 seasons for Brendan Shanahan. And there's no question with the press release through Keith Pelly. The respect factor goes into a guy of that stature. But you know, 11 years is a long time also to get a crack at winning a Stanley Cup. Yeah, I mean, we all know the stakes in pro sports are incredibly high. There is a lot of turnover we see with coaches, with GMs, and even at the president level, and the expectations are high.

And this isn't a unique thing to the Toronto Maple Leafs. I mean, sports is at its base about winning and losing, and the Leafs have had a certain level of success, certainly under Brennan Shanahan. And I don't think we can dismiss that. And, you know, I think we even made a point on Sunday's broadcast of saying, look, there's 26 other teams that would have loved to have been there in the final five teams standing this year and to have taken the defending champions to the seventh game, you know, in a winner-take-all scenario. Like, there's something to be said for that. But when that is the greatest achievement that's been accomplished

through a 10 year tenure, with the expectations to be much, much higher based on, you know, the skilled players at the Leafs disposal and all the expectations that came with getting these skilled players lined up, and where this franchise was hoping to go, there's been an equal amount of disappointments. And then there's going to be change because of those things. So I think Brennan Shanahan could probably be really proud of some of what's taken place in his tenure as leading the Maple Leafs.

And I'm sure there'd be some missteps along the way that he'd like to have do-overs. And he probably understands that. He's a smart guy. He's been in an executive role in some capacity since he left his playing days in the NHL, he understands how the executive offices work and I'm sure he respects, you know, what's, what's taken place and understands that. And, you know, there've been cries three, four years ago, what's

going to happen with Brandon Shannon. And I think, you know, Maple Leafs Sport and Entertainment really allowed sort of not second chances, but allowed this whole process to take full bloom. I don't think anything was left to be discovered. I think, you know, the plan was in place and there was aspects of it that worked really well and aspects clearly that didn't get the Leafs ultimately where they wanted to go. And there's going to be change because of that. I mean,

I don't think anyone's saying this with any surprise. I listen to your guys show on a regular basis. I, you know, we were in the studio talking about these sorts of moments and this has been sort of, um, predicted or expected by many in the hockey community for some time. And today's that day. Yeah. You've been in your role for some time and following all these teams and the evolution of the president role. Am I out of my mind and feeling like, I don't know, when Brandon hired,

it didn't feel like the president was so tied to direct hockey results. Like I understand that when you're the top of the pyramid, you're on the hook at the end of the day, but it felt like the general manager was the player decided. Yeah. And just, you're on the hook at the end of the day, but it felt like the general manager was the player deciding. Yeah, and just before you go on, Dea, I know that Brendan was under that roof for many years, and it was really a lot about corporate, right? Meeting and marketing, and there's so many aspects outside of who's on the ice

and what lines they're gonna be going. And he did leave it from everything I gathered to his general manager and his coach. Yeah. I mean, listen, do I know the inner workings of the relationship between Brennan Shannon and Brad Trey Levy? I mean, I'm not going to pretend, and Craig Barube, I'm not going to pretend to know that. What I'm going to say is there's some owners in professional sports and certainly in NHL that don't really feel they need an intermediary between the GM who's calling the shots hockey wise and themselves.

They feel they can just reach out to their GM and they don't need that extra layer. We've seen in Canadian markets where we seem to have that, you know, whether it's in Vancouver, whether it's in Montreal, we see that in most Canadian markets. There's that intermediary and how much they're involved in the business side of things because MLSC is an incredibly huge business and how much they're involved in the hockey side of things. So that's interesting. That is an interesting sort of comment to make, Nick and Justin.

And I think there's going to be a president. I don't think they're suddenly just going to say, well, we don't need a president anymore, but there are teams that operate without that buffer I mean look at the dollar stars, right there a team They have their ownership and below their ownership There's Jim Nellis the GM and they don't really have an extra layer an extra person there And obviously things are working very well for the dollar stars So every group's different how much say Brennan Shanahan had in the hockey part of things? I'm not sure I did change though. It did change it evolved

It went from Lou obviously to Kyle those guys seem to have more control on the day-to-day part And then even recently with Brad tree living I think it did force Brendan to to focus more on the hockey department than the business of the Leafs the last year and a half. So in essence though, it may have been too late, right? Well, one thing, Nick, is there's certainly a philosophical change between the way Kyle Dubas oversaw this team and the way Brad Trey Living.

And he made it very clear from the day he walked in the office, you know, Brad Trey Living is someone who is from the same school as Brian Burke, as far as the hockey product and what will cost success on the ice. And he said it, you know, Brian Burke used the adjective truculence and, and, and Brad Trey Living, you know, used it, you know, very clearly said we need more snot on this team. Kyle Dubas was more reluctant to speak in those terms. He always thought, you know, puck possession.

Skill, skill, skill. On power play. Skill, skill, skill. And I think Brad Trey Living said, we love the skill, we need more will. And I'm not sure where Brendan Shanahan played out. He might've seen it from both sides. You know, he's a very smart and thoughtful hockey executive

and how much of his input and imprint was there with Brad Trey Living. Again, I'm not sure, but at the end of the day, I think all it comes down to is you have a decade to sort of figure out where this team is going to get it to as far a place as it can go and if it doesn't meet the expectations of the fan base, the media, but most importantly internally, internally what the expectations were, then there's going to be changes. We just saw this in Los Angeles and we're seeing it now and we saw it in the New York Islanders and we're seeing it now, you know, here in Toronto and I just,

you know, I don't think we should need to read much more into it than it was maybe the natural evolution that, you know, this was sort of the last kick of the can for both some of the players. We know the core group's going to change and for some of the management as well. I think it's just sort of all goes hand in hand. Kip, this is as much for you as DA, but like as he leaves, is there really anything you can point to organizationally where you'd say, this is something they gotta do better? Like I have the one beef, what's yours, go ahead.

Public relations. That's it, that's exactly what mine is. Of course it is because we've worked for four years together. Yeah well it's the similar similar complaints and then I can't speak to you. They gotta get reconnected with the fans. It does feel right now, DA, that like expectations it kind of feels like the fans are a little taken for granted. I just know personally you know I've been doing the show with four years for Nick. We've never talked to Austin Matthews, you know, like not once, you know, some of that stuff to me, I feel like you could work for the fans a little bit more to bring down

the wall a bit. I agree with you guys. I really would like to see more access. I don't think it's a bad thing. I understand. And you know, we had Lulaula Amarillo who wouldn't allow us to speak to any of the rookies in their in their rookie season. Right. Austin Matthews scores four goals in his first game as a Maple Leaf and you know our poor ring side reporters asking Brad boys what's it like watching Austin Matthews score four goals? It's so implausible. It's laughable because it seems like PR 101. And again, I don't want to be sitting here crapping on anyone, but I just philosophically believe the media doesn't have to be a bad thing.

It's a liaison to the fans. And the more access you have, they get to see these great personalities. They get to see these great characters. They get to see this great will. There's a fine line. I get it. You want to protect these young 18-year-old players as they come into the league, but there is something that ends up causing a level of resentment sometimes through the media or through the fan base if they feel, you know, they're held on a pedestal but they're not necessarily always held accountable or they're not getting a chance to see the human

side. And access has been a real issue. And I think that's something that philosophically I'd like it from the top. Then just discuss it. What are the upsides and what are the downsides? And at the end of the day, I've always said, look, I interview a lot of people, as do you. They have control of the interview. As the interviewer, we can guide where it's going, but they always have the choice to

be like, yeah, I'm not comfortable talking about that. Or I'd rather, next know, next question, let's talk about something else. Or I don't have a comment on that. I don't have a thought on that. They always, the person you're asking controls what's coming out of their mouths. So I've always felt like as much as I can control some of the areas with which the discussion will go, ultimately I'm at the mercy of what the interviewee has to offer. And, you know, again, I've always said, I'm not Mike Wallace walking in there trying to, you know, bring down the doors. If you don't know Mike Wallace is, you know, the old journalists on 60 minutes. But, you know, I don't mean you, but you know, some of the younger listeners and

viewers. We're, you know, again, we're a liaison for the team. We're there. I'm always of the mindset. I'm an enthusiastic sports fan. I want to promote the game. I want to promote the players. I want to tell good stories. It's not about bringing people down and certainly there's got to be accountability held But I don't think the average person in sports broadcasting in the media is there to destroy lies and destroy careers I think it's about let's embrace the great moments and let's share it all together because there's such a passion Especially with a fan base of a team like the Toronto Maple Leafs And I think a lot of that's just been forgotten throughout the years I'm not sure why because when I broke into this business back with the Matson Deans and everyone

else the relationships were much stronger. Nick you played in the 1990s and it just it feels like there's a lot more acrimony now between the fan base and the players and the media and the players and it really doesn't have to be that way. As the price keeps going up to go watch these players. You are watching and listening to David Amber, studio host, Hockey Night in Canada, NHL on Sportsnet in Dallas covering the Oilers and the Stars. So I think in Keith Peli's press release he talked about, if I'm not mistaken, Sam, a new voice. And if it is, do we expect someone in to come in at a president type of position,

or do we expect it to disappear and stay in the hands of just Brad Tree Living, which Elliot reported will be back next season? We know Craig Barube, he's not going anywhere. So what do you expect on if there is a? different voice in charge At what level?

Wow, this is that's a very tough question to ask if someone who's not inside. Okay. Okay. Let me rephrase it Do do you expect a new voice or or can they get away with? Just eliminating Brendan's job and just keeping it in the hands of Brad tree living and and Craig Brule What if and this is speculation I've heard and not like more more just people talking, you know I've talked to a lot of hockey people asked you guys What if rad tray living was promoted to the president's level and there was another person brought in as a GM under Brad? I don't know. Is that a possibility?

Is that something that Brad would be interested in? So could a new voice go to Brad Trey Living at a higher level? JB? You know, I don't see why not. I mean, it's possible, right? This I think he's a pretty well respected guy and you know, it doesn't quite seem like a new voice at that point to me, Kip. It seems like that vision would have been lined the past couple years. But I don't know.

For me, it's less about like whose voice it is and more about like what's being said and how it's being said and how will it sound different from years past? So in the PR department, it's not you don't necessarily need a new voice, but you need a new message Is more important to me than a new voice, right? Let me ask you guys something though Brad trailer mean I don't have the numbers in front of me But he's been in for is it to two plus years. Is that right? Wasn't yard in May. Oh, may? Oh yeah that's right. So you know he could argue that this group of players as much as he liked a lot of it wasn't you know he was handed this group of players and he's then

started in the two years to put some of his identity on the team. Which he did but just not enough or you know not enough time enough or not enough time. Yeah, not enough time. I think if I was if I was Brad Trier living and I was arguing, you know, like well, you're part of the problem or whatever some of the dressing them and that he'd be like, well, wait a minute, you know, I took over this team and there's things I liked about it. There's a lot of things I didn't like about it and it took it's taking some time to move through it all and I'm, you know,

helping putting my identity on the team. It just doesn't seem like he's been given a full range of to create a team under the guise of what he necessarily would want. And I think he put pieces in place, but it probably didn't completely fit the vision that he's probably had of what the team would be when it's complete. Yeah. We good to turn the page on that? I'm good. Okay, let's just quickly. Canada lost, huh? I don't have anything to tell you. I'm on a text chain and it's

like Denmark beats Canada. I'm like what? I'm honestly, I'm surprised I'm breaking news here. Healers to Oleson. He got in behind Phillip Denneau on the back door and put it over Bennington. 18 to 1 underdogs. 18 to one dog. They're eliminated. Yeah, they're eliminated. They beat Crosby, McKinnon, Celebrini, Flurry. And they're two NHL players on the team. Who's the general manager of the team again? Oh, come on. It's Kyle. Those are pretty good players he picked. Kip. I'm taking those guys too. I So desperately want him to do well seriously, I know no no no, I'm serious I know I'm dead serious like this guy cannot buy a break You can't buy a break can't say didn't bring the best players available

Yeah without watching a second of the game. It's really hard to comment what the heck happened, but I'm just shocked that no listen I watch March Madness religiously when it comes out every year, most every year. This year was an exception. All the four number ones got to the final, but every year there's seemingly a two, lose to a 15 or a three to a 14 on any given Sunday. As they say, anything can happen. And I guess that's what happened without watching the game. I don't know.

But man, that is a bit of a shocker because they did assemble essentially as good on paper, a world championship team is, is Canada's had in some time. All right. Oh, there's time. Oilers time. We're going to talk about the playoffs. Okay. Yeah.

No, you go. You were there covering game one, the Oilers leading three one in that game and had it all go awry. What did you see DA? And they were good too were good to really good. Mcgavin was flying. Luke Gastic and I were on at the first second intermission and talk about eating your words.

We talked about the maturity of the oilers how they were playing with purpose and passion and it was the best 40 minutes we had seen. I went as far as to say the thing about this oilers team is, you know, in the the first round they gave up multiple goals In eight different periods in the second round against Vegas They only give up multiple goals in a period three times You know talking to the players this morning, which we did talk to them They're said, you know, we just won't let things get away from us. The game won't slip through our fingers

That it up. We said all this and then they went out It's all slipping through their fingers as they're telling me I And I turn to Luke and I'm like, oh my God. Like it was the second time this year they've allowed five goals in a period. A lot of chatter before the series is the special teams. And it's been almost this Freaky Friday flip around. Last year, the Oilers, they were, you know, you know, their PK was historical, right? Ninety four percent, sixty six of seventy. Last year in the Western Conference final, Dallas went 0 for 14 on the power play.

I said to Peter DeBoer, what did you learn about last year's Western Conference final that will help you this year? And he goes, well, we can't go over 14 on the power plane. He laughed and we said, yeah, special teams will be big. Well, special teams were huge. I mean, that was the difference. It was a five-minute implosion of a meltdown three power play goals by Dallas. There's so many things you could point out guys not getting in the lane. Stewart Skinner not battling hard enough.

Like we saw Hellebuck didn't battle hard enough to find those loose pucks in the first round versus St. Louis. It was eerily similar to that. Or it was it was eerily similar to Stewart Skinner in the first round versus LA. And as a little surprise, Chris Knoblauch didn't call a timeout at some point to try and just calm the team down because it just slipped through their fingers in a matter of five minutes. Give Dallas some credit.

They don't give up. They have resilience. You know, they came back obviously in game seven versus Colorado. They've shown that ability. That was their sixth comeback win this postseason. Edmonton has six comeback wins and now Dallas has six comeback wins. But it's put a lot of pressure on Edmonton to find their way in game two because Dallas in a way stole that game gentlemen.

They were done after 40 minutes. Wasn't based on the two goal deficit they faced, but it was just Edmonton was winning every metric of the game and looked in complete control and it completely fell apart like a $2 watch in a five minute span. Yesterday we had Kevin Lo, six time Stanley Cup champion on the show and then I posed this question to the guys

as well, how important was it for Skinner to get off to a good start so no one can turn around and start questioning him? Does game one unfortunately plant a little bit of the seed of doubt in terms of is the Oilers goaltending going to get them through? To me it does. I mean, and I like Stuart Skinner.

I think, you know, and we talked a lot about how he has a, you know, he's working on his mental game and all that. But at the end of the day, this is Stuart Skinner's stat line this year. Six goals allowed, five goals allowed, four goals allowed, zero goals allowed, zero goals allowed, five goals allowed. It's been an all or nothing proposition guys allowing four, five, and six goals in a game and that's basically what we've seen except for those two shutouts which were great. You know which Stuart Skinner is going to show up and then at the other end of the ice, you know, Jake Ottinger has been rock solid. I think he's been the best game for game goalie

so far in the playoffs, but Broski's been right there as well. But Ottinger just solid as a rock. And that's hard when you're staring down the other end and you know the other guy, you're going to have a hard time beating him. And if your guy is on great, but if he's not on, not so great.

And let's remember Calvin Pickard, who's perfect 6-0 who battles he's out he's not even with the team so Rod Reig who's 158 pound back up he's played one NHL game there's nowhere really to turn if you're Chris Knoblog I'm not quite sure what option you have I mean Stuart Skinner is gonna start you hope he's gonna be this good Stuart Skinner who who got his swagger back in those two games versus Vegas. But, you know, he was part of that meltdown yesterday. A hundred percent. I'm sorry. Did you say 158 pounds? That's what I'm hearing. Yeah.

That's not very many pounds. That's half of Anthony Stolar's. But that's your left leg. We were talking about that. I was talking about that with some hockey guys today and one of them said, yeah, you know, he's 158 pounds. I said, no, that can't be. And I remember who was it? Ryan Miller was about 160 pounds and, you know, Darren Payne. Hey, 61 was Roderick.

Yeah. What does it say? What does it list them six one one fifty eight? That's me in high school Yeah, I mean so listen I it's Golden he's not about his weight, but my point is are you gonna take at the most important time of year? You're gonna put in a guy who's just untested and it doesn't seem fair and that's not even being discussed But my point is it has to be Stuart Skinner right now

And you don't want to get into another to nothing serious deficit tomorrow's game is really big and listen Stuart Skinner has shown the ability To bear down and be great. He's shown that ability Hopefully he can show that ability in game too. Because if, if, if, you know, if he's subpar, I think you're going to get a better game from Dallas than you got in that game one victory. So you're going to get Dallas is better game. You're going to need better goal-tending to, to, you know, combat that. One more for me, Miro Heiskenen, of course, factoring in huge in game one. When does, uh, Matias Ekholm factor in for the Oilers? First question we asked today and in Chris Knoblog's

availability, and he said not ready to go game two, I watched him skate yesterday and Chris Cuthbert and I were talking, he looked pretty good, like maybe he's ready. And I was surprised when they ruled him out of the first two games. And I thought maybe after losing game one, they would change that whole ruled him out of game one and apparent or added to game two and Chris Nauvlog today said not ready will not play in game two so he would be helpful and that's part of the PK guys like that was a big reason why you know the traffic in front

of Stuart Skinner will be appreciably less when you have the Viking there you know forcibly moving bodies out from in front of the net and he can do that so that will be appreciably less when you have the Viking there, you know, forcibly moving bodies out from in front of the net, and he can do that. So that will be a big addition. Let's hope we see him in Edmonton for games three and four. So that is a good question, Nick, and let's be hopeful he's back, because that is a big part of their blue line. Having said that, guys, he's played three shifts

since March 26th, so it took Haysken in a few games to ramp up. Haysken in went 14 minutes 18 minutes 23 minutes last night He was excellent 24 minutes. He was Everything you would expect it might take at home a game or two to get back into that, you know game ready Stanley Cup playoff Western Conference final shape. What are you guys doing in Dallas tonight? Cool stuff you and Luke How are you guys going? We are heading out. We're grabbing dinner with a few other colleagues

Hopefully gene will join us and we're going to watch the the Panther game. I called the Panther game I guess I just called the hurricane Panther game, but we're gonna go watch Carolina and Florida game two and have a bite to eat and it's it sizzle I know it's horrible in Toronto right now. My wife tells me it's like two degrees It's like 35 degrees and and hot here. So Jean is three more shades darker than me. I Want you straight home after dinner. Yeah, we'll be home early. You got a curfew for me? Yes, I do. I do. Alright, David, thanks for doing this, pal. Keep up the great work and enjoy the rest of the series. Spoilers and the stars.

Yeah, it should be great. Thanks for having me on me on busy, busy time in the world of the NHL and you guys are all over. It's great to see. Thanks buddy. Appreciate it. David Amber, host of Hockey Night in Canada, NHL on Sportsnet. So 158 pounds. Yeah. That's insane.

Do you know at 158 pounds, you don't go for an X-ray. They just hold you up in front of a light bulb. You got any more? Got any more knee smackers over there? It's crazy to be a hundred fifty eight hundred fifty eight is wild. That's tough. Maybe grade six. Is he a jockey?

Like what other athletes are in? I know. Like that's crazy. Game time. Game time. It's game time. Is it about bet three, six, five? Visit the app for the stars and find out what's never ordinary at bet 365 must be 19 plus

Ontario only please play responsibly I'm looking at the Panthers in Carolina again tonight and that 365 is going back to the well with the Carolina Hurricanes has big face. It just feels like this is a way to make money here minus 135 tonight are the Carolina Hurricanes the Florida Panthers are plus 115 on the money line You did Panthers ask. Yeah, I did. I didn't I lost my winnings last time. Are they getting better? Are they just getting better? They're good. Listen if they win tonight, it's Four games for so I guess that's what they're kind of playing in here, how bad Carolina needs this game and all that.

But I just think Florida's way better. But how many goals did AJ Greer and Jonah Gadget score in the Leafs? And they scored last game and they weren't even playing. He put in a whole new third, fourth line and they just immediately started lighting it up. It's really frustrating. I like that Greer is a guy down the lineup. Oh man.

Frustrating. Really good. Yeah, he's heavy. Yeah, so that's surprising and looking ahead to tomorrow night. Oilers, underdogs in Dallas. Definitely has a feel of letting one get away. I guess we'll talk about that a little bit more as we get into it and give me tonight a goal score give me Sam

Reinhardt to score a goal tonight at plus 200 I like Sam Reinhardt to score a goal I'm gonna bet ah oh okay and shot he's oh I'm holding on shots how many shots do you want I think he's gonna get four shots tonight Sebastian ah ho shots. Why am I having such a hard time with this? You want how many shots did you say or is plus 230? Yeah. Yeah, one of my biggest misses Was Sam Reinhardt when he was in Buffalo Thought never saw it. No, I thought he couldn't skate. I was like, he's not tough, he can't skate.

Can't skate. Not tough, like he's going to be this third, he'll be lucky to stay on the third line in the NHL. I thought he was a Buffalo Sabre, like a perfect Sabre. He was just total there getting 25, I know he's dumb. The only thing I'll remember about really this Stanley Cup playoffs this year is Simone Benoit bearing him behind the net. Absolutely filling him in.

Can't get hit much harder, quite honestly. And he gets up like nothing. No look at the referee, no shaking his head, no on one knee. Nothing getting up to me. It's just continuing to play hockey part. Think about that elevating your team and Benoit's hit supposed to do that for the Leafs and Reinhardt gets up like it's nothing like that's the best you got I'm coming right back at you. So I guess you like a

plus 200 goal for Sam Reinhardt tonight. That was Game Time presented by Bet365 is the app for the latest. And find out why it's never ordinary. Bet365, Mr. 19+, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. All right. Boy, that was a fast, what, 40 minutes? Good chat, boys. Really good chat. Okay, we'll take a quick break.

When we return, Sammy wants to talk a little docu-series with the Euler dynasty. Yeah, have you seen this? No. Yeah, yeah. All right. Okay, let's do it. We'll discuss when we return to Real Kipper and Born. Boyle-er dynasty. Have you seen this? No. Yeah, yeah. All right. Okay, let's do it. We'll discuss when we return to Real Kipper and Born. Covering the Blue Jays from an analytical perspective.

Jays Talk Plus with Blake Murphy. Be sure to subscribe and download Jays Talk on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. ["Jays Talks"] Welcome back to the program as a reminder this hour of Real Kipper and Born brought to you by bet 365, Nick Kipper, Justin Barnes, Sammy McKee. So I just want to ask you a question. Off the top we talked about Shanahan stuff. And yesterday I thought we did one of, I got a lot of messages about yesterday saying it Off the top we talked about shanahan stuff. Yeah, and yesterday

I thought we did one of I got a lot of messages about yesterday saying it was a fabulous leaf sour and People where we broke down the best of and the worst of the last decade Did you get a little maybe you'll hear something about that one? Okay, and and then I responded with well Sammy and Guess what? I'm not Nick Kiprios and then she said what is wrong with you? Oh Gotcha gotcha. Yeah. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

I got a call from my wife. Wow. Wow. Okay. I wanted to ask you guys about something. Did you see, there's a two part question here. Okay. I mean, we're just doing leaves.

We're in the story, sorry, national, but there's a picture floating around on the internet of these guys. It was like Riley and Matthews and Marner and McCabe all at a golf club near here up in Caledon. Pulpit. Pulpit. And people were like, sent the tweet about that.

And I mean, I don't care really about them, like whatever. But the question I had for you, because I said a tweet about this today The hat in the clubhouse thing. Oh, this is the question I want to ask because I wear a hat on here all the time I wear a hat 95% of my life But like if you were sitting down to dinner and you saw somebody wearing a hat Does that make you physically recoil like I? Do like if I'm out for dinner with my wife and I sit see a guy like out on a date

He's wearing a hat at dinner that's not dinner but I mean you're in a clubhouse should your hat be off I would take my half a clubhouse hold on for hold on for a second okay yes we don't know what the rules are okay regardless of rules okay all right so like okay who had a napkin in their lap, Sam? I just think wearing a hat, sitting down in a clubhouse is a little bit, I don't have many old school morals, but that one for me is a little bit too much.

If you just came off the golf course and you're having some beers and your hat's still on, what is the big deal? A funny thing is that at Rosedale, you actually have to don a top hat. So that's why he's not offended by it. That's why he's not offended by it. You know what I am offended? That picture got out?

Yes. Yeah, it's stupid. Whoever wrote it put 72 hours later. What are you supposed to be doing? 72 hours later. Oh my god. What are you supposed to be doing? 72 hours later. They better, I want you in a dark room for a week crying. 72 hours. Do you know why, like. You guys don't know what I would've been doing

72 hours after a season. Do people not understand that like, the correlation between golf and the NHL playoffs, it's an ongoing joke because it's true. It's true. It's been true for a hundred years. Your season's over. That night you probably all get together, drink, do whatever you want to do, cry in

your beer, whatever. And then it's like, we're going to go out for dinner the next night, which they all did. As a team, it's just standard. We're going to go out because everybody's planning on going home. So we're going to spend two or three days together because that's what teams do. And then on the third day,'re gonna go golf. Okay, and people are are linking their their lack of Caring to that picture. It's I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed for that picture Yeah, I agree totally agree 72 hours later because 96 hours later. Everyone's gone. I'm glad that we I mean

It's not good radio, but we all just agree. But just to confirm, the dinner thing. I do believe you should not be. If I go to a restaurant and I see a person wearing a hat at dinner, I think it's the most offensive thing there. But I wear a hat on TV and people hate that too, so maybe I'm talking on both sides of my mouth.

I don't know. Also possible. It's a possibility people see us at dinner and they're offended. At all. I'm leaving, I'm leaving the room. Oh my God, I gotta go Kipper and Bourne show. No, I'm out of here for me This is really I know I only have a couple minutes here. So maybe it's a perfect time to bring this up I saw this in the sportsnet website today as I was looking for our news and note segment that

There is going to be a while away 2027. So I mean that's not breaking news But there's gonna be a docu series on the Oilers dynasty with, you know, it's apparently Ryan Reynolds production houses putting, you know, Gretzky, Messi, it's going to be called The Great Ones, an unprecedented look at the lives and careers of the Oilers players who helped them win five Stanley Cups between 1984 and 1990. I'm counting down the days. But there's been a ton of stories already Like what is left to cover? Like is there new footage has there been has there been a comprehensive checks to cash has there been a I don't I mean

I think there has been I don't know. I mean, I feel like I would have boys on the bus I don't know. But is there new footage is there new? Angles that you can go through? It's been pretty well, though the stories over the years have been pretty well told. It is pretty cool though. Usually tip, you know, when a major production house aims at an event like this, like in the 30 for 30s,

they start digging in for footage and stuff. Yeah, I hope you're right. If it comes out, I hope that there's some new, some new good stuff. I do think like, I love these kinds of things. And during the pandemic that The Michael Jordan one. Yeah last dance my problem with all these docu-series They're produced by the people that are in them now. We are no longer getting third party

Yes, we're now there now like the players Tribune articles where it's just you know, whitewashing the events for sure I get that Victor gets to tell the stories, but I'm just hoping for new footage and all that sort of stuff. I love sports documentaries. I'm just like any sports documentary you put in front of me, like those bad sport ones on Netflix, I'll watch any sports documentary. I will watch literally any of them. They're really good. Yeah, they are.

They're really good. I like the new ones too because the one that we broke down for the Leafs, All or Nothing, told us a lot. Well, the original Road to the Winter classics were unbelievable. The first year with Babs, Detroit. Oh my God. You know, you guys, you see the whiteboards and I used to take screenshots. I don't know, if I ran a team, I'm like out, out.

Well, Hard Knocks is like the most famous one. It kind of, like it's the one that HBO does every NFL training camp and they're doing the Bills this year, which is really exciting. But most teams want nothing to do with that. Of course. I mean, it's terrible. You know, what good comes of it?

It's horrible. It's like full act. I mean, look what happened to the Giants. They have that meeting with the owner where he's like, if Saquon goes to the Eagles and he's good, I'm really gonna be pissed. It goes and wins the Super Bowl 2000 yards. Like, yeah, it's like, that'm really gonna be pissed. It goes in wins a Super Bowl and the 2000 yards like yeah It's like that's not what you want. It does really

expose that I'll never forget Ray Ferraro dressing beside him with the Rangers and dick Todd's doing a speech for us, and he's joking around of course But then Ray looks at me goes, you know, you spend your whole life in the greatest league in the world and that's the help you get. And I feel like, I feel like,

I feel like people like that have this mystique about professional sports. And then it's like drawing the curtains and seeing, you know, that wizard who's five foot two. We're gonna have to let the curtain go. And teams are going to have to be accepting of that. It's a bunch of doofus jocks. Yes, it is.

And like, I don't know what he's saying. And even doofus owners and doofus general managers and- Rich people. Not all that smart either necessarily. And they're full of crap like everybody else. The last one was like, Jack Eichel goes out for dinner. I'm like, oh my God. Holy God.

I'd rather watch paint dry. Wow, that's a fast hour. I will say this, of all the shows that we've done, this is one of them. It was. Our thanks to David Amber, Hockey Night in Canada, NHL on Sportsnet. We are back tomorrow, Off the Rails Friday.

We're gonna find Doug McLean. And Keith Pelly's talking tomorrow at one, so we'll have a Leafs Hour tomorrow. Big day. Have a great night everybody.