Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs' Trade Targets - Buy, Sell or Rent?

Episode Date: December 28, 2022

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne kick off by breaking down the Maple Leafs' overtime win against the St. Louis Blues, William Nylander's solo effort with the game winner, Calle Järnkrok making the most of his opportunity on the second line and how much stock to put into these regular season 'statement' wins. Then, breaking news that the Leafs will be fined $100k by the league for travelling on Christmas Day (57:16). Later, Luke Fox joins (1:03:59) to discuss who the Leafs should target in a trade, what assets they'd have to give up and if trading for a one-year rental is worth it. Finally, John Scott's Connor McDavid take, is 'the Michigan' too showboat-y and what's going on with Canadian goalies?The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van. I need to kick it off here. Post-holiday edition of the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, our boy Sammy down south somewhere. The smartest one, JB, of us all. I know. What's going on here? I feel like he's on vacation every other week.

He's just posted up in Cuba somewhere. Where is he? Cabo? You know, he wouldn't dare pull off this crap before we brought him out to the real world in our show. Before he was just Tristan. That's what he was. Tristan, are you out there?

Our producer, our Sammy-like producer. I don't think he's near a microphone. Oh, lucky him. Yeah, I know. Lucky him. Now, how are you? You're good? You had a good break, I know. Lucky him. Now, how are you? You're good. You had a good break.

I know you traveled. You pulled a somewhat Sammy on us and braved the elements out there. Yeah. Airports, lost luggage, canceled flights. Did it affect you at all? No, no. We got super lucky. So first off, thank you for asking.

I feel like dying. That is a mandatory part of the season. Half cold, half been sleeping in one room with a six and two year old who were up all night traveling. So yes, I would like to die. But other than that,

we had no problem. The airports, well, Pearson was good. We went to LaGuardia and back without incident. Unlike everything else I see on Instagram and everywhere else. So very lucky. How was your holiday Kipper? kipper oh i'm smart i just didn't move on the couch we did have plans to get out uh east a little bit uh prince edward county's uh a favorite of ours

uh unfortunately all the roads were completely blocked off. No access into Prince Edward County. It wasn't suggested. It was told you will go to jail if you attempt this. Really? That bad, eh? It was that bad. So we didn't mess around with that at all. A couple audibles.

Got the family together at my sister's. Still managed to pull in a great couple of days off. Yeah, you know, when we were down there, the weather still was terrible out there. I was going to take my son to his first ever Isles game. I had the tickets and the whole, you know, like we got parking,

we got tickets, we got gear all set up, but the temperature was minus a jillion and it rained in the afternoon, so we couldn't go to that. So once we got there, we were stuck in the house too. But again, with the family, no big deal. Enjoyable Christmas, all told. So you're really going to blame this cold on your kids, eh? You're not going to pull that killer Carlson from Slapshot and say that I have a runny nose,

sore throat, I went out in the storm last week and started the car. I didn't have my jacket on. No, you don't want to pull that card out? I am soft enough to make that excuse, but, you know, show up thick or thin here. A little injury doesn't hold me back, Kip. Well, we're glad everybody's aboard wherever you're listening, whether it's on Sportsnet 590 The Fan or download it on Spotify, iTunes, whatever your platform

of choice, we're glad you are aboard. We're going to have a great two hours minus Sammy McKee, Brett Hall, two-time Stanley Cup champion, Hall of Famer, and St. Louis Blue alum will be joining us in about 40

minutes. Always great to hear from Brett Hall. Luke Fox, of course, our great writer, Sportsnet.ca. He's going to be around in the second hour as well. And a ton of news and notes coming out of the Christmas break, including the Leafs off of, what, four days since their next-gen game against the Philadelphia Flyers. They managed to squeak out a win, albeit maybe not the prettiest of wins in a 5-4 overtime versus the St. Louis Blues.

And, JB, where do you want to start on this one? Because it is a challenging game. No question. The mad scramble to get in off of a no-fly zone basically on the 26th. Yeah, actually, I wanted to ask you about that. Did you feel like there was any patterns after Christmas about those types of games or how you felt or anything like that? I always, you know, when you're the home team, to me,

it was always hard because you kind of roll out of the Christmas spirit and try to play a hockey game. At least when you travel, you have to flip the switch earlier. Yeah. No question it's a crapshoot, and you have no idea what you're going to get. And I'm sure Sheldon Key felt that way. Craig Berube felt that way. Not sure how much you caught of the Battle of Alberta

in a close 2-1 win for the Edmonton Oilers. I listened to Connor McDavid talk about the trends that he's seen throughout his Edmonton Oer days where they don't respond well off of breaks. No. And that's probably why their win last night in Calgary felt a little extra special, but I think we saw some,

some good, bad and ugly last night from both clubs on, on at various times. But I don't think that you probably want to put too much stock into it. No, it's, you know, I wrote an article like 12 years ago.

I just found it on the internet, which is why I know when it was, but about like, get them out sooner. My last article is 12 years ago. Oh, I thought you wrote it 12 years ago and it just came out. But then the way I wrote it about like the post-christmas

bag skate like when junior in college college in particular you had a long break so you'd come back and the coach would beg you and everyone smelled like vodka and gravy and it was just a vile smelling skate on the ice more or less like everyone still takes the break so yeah you're not gonna have the sharpest players out there and the breakouts you do your breakdowns that happen in the game they tend to be pretty glaring and out there. And the breakouts you do or breakdowns that happen in the game, they tend to be pretty glaring. And I thought that was the case with Toronto St. Louis where, you know, everyone's doing their best, but one little slip up,

you're a step behind and there's a ton of chances. Obviously nine goals last night. Not, as you mentioned, not the prettiest hockey game, but they survived. Do you want to start by getting into the clips a little bit? Yeah, absolutely. And why don't we start with John Tavares, captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs, and talking about these types of game.

And, of course, he's been around a long time, played in many of them. Let's get his thoughts. You know, these games can be a little bit of a crapshoot sometimes. Just in general, you do the best you can to get as ready as possible. And, you know know at times I think we just didn't close as quickly as we'd like but yeah big two points and especially when maybe not your best but you

find a way you can go a long way towards the standings at the end of the year No question two points now two points in October end of the year it doesn't matter they all look the same after two games. I also like the idea, though, of finding a way when things are different or feel weird or you're on the road.

You know, this is something I think that the Leafs, it's going to be a big testament or a test for them when they get to playoffs, when things don't go right and you don't feel well and everything's not in the same old structure. Could you find a way? I think that might be the first John Tavares clip of the year, scintillating chit-chat guy that he is. So got him on there with a crapshoot mention and a very good point.

Pretty random hockey game. So they go up, you know, Kerfoot gets them up 3-1. And this is where you think maybe at times in the past, JB, we'd see them blow in the lead but losing the game. And I know that they ended up blowing the 3-1 lead. But at 3-3, I didn't necessarily get the sense that this is going to unravel. But in the past, I think we have seen yeah that way they played really well like the second period to get up and then i thought after that like it was kind

of their hockey game kerfo was an interesting guy last night like if he could shoot the hockey puck he's like if michael jordan had to use like uh i don't know like a wiffle ball instead of a basketball like he can do everything he can play he can get around he just wants he gets around the scoring areas not his forte i know he you know air quotes shot one in the net route last night but would you make it his game he had pretty good jump kerfoot is is one of those guys where basically since he's been here it's not like he he's his skating alone is noticeable he is a fantastic skater uh he does does get up on the play. He can get in on a forecheck.

Gets in good shooting spots. Always. He's not cheated out of his looks, as you had just mentioned, but there is a lack of finish there for sure. In a perfect world, it would be great if Kerfoot could be Kerfoot plus, but it's not there but he certainly is a guy that sheldon's made it abundantly clear is an important piece to our our puzzle here yeah and a night like last night where guys are dragging a little bit that's an advantage having someone with the pop that he's gotten able to get to some of those

areas so yeah decent showing out of him last night uh team hangs in there i thought maybe we could go to keith on liking the resiliency of the team last night you want to hear that one absolutely all right i mean you're coming in here like i said coming off the break you're not quite sure what to expect from the guys and from the game so you really are're really just trying to get out of it healthy and with two points. So to that end, I liked how our guys were resilient and found a way. And we'll pack up and head out to Arizona and have a good practice tomorrow. I don't think he spent too much time post-game drawing that one up. No, I thought we could actually just then do Keefe on not putting much stock

into it and get into that a little bit there you go yeah okay as a general rule you don't you don't get too critical of these games coming out of the break and even less so when you get two points so i thought you know it's a 5-4 hockey game so there's a lot going on it's a little bit chaotic i didn't like them when we were in control of the game in the second period with a two-goal lead that gave that back. But, you know, I have to like how the guys fought back. And, you know, just while we wrap up on a Kerfoot, do you need him to finish a lot of plays off when you've got Yarncroft at a goal and two assists? The great Kelly Yarncroft.

And what, almost a point a game since he's back, if I'm not mistaken, he's got six and seven or seven and eight. But whatever it is, it's not unnoticeable. No, you know, and this is, I think, what they thought they were getting when they gave him a four-year contract was not someone they could play in the top six. No, I know, hold on, Not a guy that can do this,

but a guy who could go up for a couple of games and do this here and there. Yes. And he had no goals. I think in Calgary, is that good? You know, he didn't spend that long there in Calgary, but couldn't,

couldn't score in a soccer net in Calgary, but has found a place right now. And it's that the, the ability to be up and down the lineup. But, JB, is this a guy that, you know, between now and the start of the first round, you will be comfortable putting him in a top six to start the first round of the Stanley Cup playoffs? You know, this is one of those ones

where you you get scared as a fan that they hope they don't talk themselves into that you know what i mean like you hope they don't see this and go like hey boy when he's up there his numbers are actually pretty good and hey maybe he can actually do this and maybe and then you get to the post season and you're up against tight defenses and you're missing that little bit of offensive pop and you go, oh, right, that's the guy whose career high in goals was 15. You know, like he made a beautiful play to pull it from behind the goal line on his backhand and get the toe around it to finish it last night. Great goal.

But, yeah, I'm a little concerned they're going to talk themselves into Yarncroft because, you know, he's good, but he's got to be on the third line. I absolutely agree. And he has, I think for the most part, been a consistent 30-plus type of guy when he's in a bit of a groove. And I think that's the numbers that he had majority in Nashville, if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, 30, 40 points. 15 goals, 15 assists. Yeah. 16 and 16. Four check, kill some penalties, do those things. But yes, certainly not signed an eight-year, I'm sorry, a four-year $8 million contract to play top six.

Mm-hmm. a four-year $8 million contract to play top six. But he can certainly buy them some time to assess what they truly need come March. Yeah, buy them some time is an interesting thought. You know, I'm watching Tampa Bay right now, and I'm looking at the standings. They're, Tampa Bay's up a ton of points on Detroit. Toronto and Tampa Bay are well back of Boston, like seven points plus.

It just feels like neither team is going to catch either team or get caught. Like this 2-3 matchup seems predestined. So, you know, on the way in, I was thinking about it a little bit, and you look at Tampa Bay, and they are giving Sergeyev some run as the PP1 guy, just trying out different looks.

Like if Hedman gets hurt, can this guy run it? He's been very good for Tampa Bay in that spot. And I wonder, like, if Toronto, if this won't be more of an experimental period of the season. How does Yarncroft look here? How does this player look up or down the lineup? Like, I wonder if they won't use this time, because it seems like they're going to be stuck against Tampa.

Is it not a testing ground now before the deadline to see what you have? Are you there right now? 35 games into the regular season. You're seven points behind Boston. Isn't that a... Don't punt yet is what you're saying? Yeah. Is that not a good week for the Leafs, a good week and a half for the Leafs,

and a bad one for Boston, and you're right back in the... Yeah. ...back of things? Like, can you now... I see your point. Do you want to now start having your comfort zone in where you start experimenting and putting guys in different spots and you actually miss winning the Atlantic by two points? It is.

No, it's a good point, Kip, like if the goal, if it becomes like a priority to win this division, do you make a trade earlier to try to, you know, to stay hot, to get hot? I understand that they're winning quite a bit right now, but, you know, they could be better. We know there's some weaknesses. Do you think this is going to be an active Toronto Maple Leafs team? Yeah, I, you know, it's funny because I'm watching or I'm listening to Sheldon's postgame comments and it's, let's keep it moving here and let's not make too much of this. the bench and we saw him extremely animated yesterday coming off a break and he has given it to the officials didn't like an interference uh a play on call on ben in his own zone

that led to the kairu goal that i believe tied it up correct and also the missed high stick on Aston Reese. Yeah. JB. I know. Like, that's a guy that's not interested in just kind of cruising for me. Like, he's grinding right away coming out of the break. Grinding and working the officials, and he wants the next call. And I've got to be honest with you, man.

I mean, like, I would have been, I would have blown a gasket too watching no call on the high stick. Yeah, pretty tough to miss and not to mention he's leaking. Four guys, JB. I know. Four out there.

How did four miss that high stick? And it's not like it's away from the play or anything. Like, it clearly, you know, should be something that's caught. I know. Let's listen to Sheldon Keefe on his thoughts on that. He's just a good, smart veteran player. Well, I don't know. Watching Zach Asenrys get sewn up on the table after the game there

is a little hard to take, but we're happy with the two points. It's hard to take. Well, he didn't have much to say because he said it all on the ice. Yeah. Just red-faced and sweating at the ref. Yeah. Yeah. just red-faced and sweating at the ref yeah yeah you know it's i i i i see a guy that uh hasn't taken his foot off the gas pedal since that embarrassing road trip in california

well for crying out loud could boston could boston for a minute weren't they behind ottawa last night like this team just will not lose look at their strength of schedule or something like you need them you to have a chance you need boston to come back to earth right now their winning percentage is absolutely through the roof they're at an 838 winning percentage four losses in 34 games for the bruins so far it's ridiculous. Before we get into Willie Nylander and that pretty special overtime goal that he scored, your thoughts on Samsonov starting out of the break. Mm-hmm.

Coming off, yeah. And that one I found interesting. Did we get any answers on that? I didn't see anything anywhere about why they were going with him. But that was a curious decision, seeing as how Matt Murray clearly seems to be the starter guy. They had four days off. There's no reason for him not to go.

Well, I don't even understand, Kip, what the line of thinking might have been. Yeah. Just an observation from afar is he's also got the start against Philadelphia. That's two starts in a row. I bet you Murray's got a nagging something right now. Either that or Samsonov's telling them, I want to play more more i just think it's so early that they would listen to him you know they would say that's great everyone wants to play more uh matt you're in you know like i don't think that would be much of a why would they give him any sort of why would

they listen to him well uh there's the short term and maybe there's the long-term play here. That they would want him around long-term? Yes. Yep. He's only on a one-year deal, if I'm not mistaken. Right. Is he UFA after this year? Yeah, he is. Correct.

Or is he restricted? I think he's a UFA, but I'll look to confirm while we're on the horn here. So he is younger than Matt Murray. I just think that they want to probably keep him happy. That's interesting. Yeah, so looking at it right now, Samsonov is a RFA after this season. He's making 1.8. He's not UFA. Right right so i assume if he progresses enough and

certainly didn't like that first goal by rosen last night no what the hell happened there he just fell yeah he just i don't know if he lost an edge or his ankle rolled over, but he fell. So he falls there. You don't like the Falk one that essentially goes through him. Like it's a hard slapper, but okay, you're an NHL goalie. You know, the O'Reilly one is, yeah, say what you want. It's a great shot, but okay. It's not impossible to save it.

So yeah, didn't like a lot of them last night. Wasn't great against Philly. Wasn't great the game before that. Maybe they just wanted him not to sit on a bad feel maybe despite the win against Philly. I don't know. But I do believe that they would probably look at samsonov as a guy that might even have a longer future than matt murray here that's interesting yeah like let's say they

could sign him to a four-year deal before he proves himself or three or four-year deal right before he puts up some sort of number get him cheaper and then what do you think they would still hang on to Murray's second year of his deal at 4.8 whatever it is maybe for for a little while yeah I don't think and again

I mean we're getting way ahead of ourselves and trust me we know this Twitter you don't have to remind us we got two hours here and we're just spitballing here. But if in fact, you know, the Leafs have success and, you know,

use your own judgment on what that means. As little as getting out of the first round, a conference final, Stanley cup final, Stanley Cup final. Matt Murray would have a big play on that. And his price wouldn't necessarily be dropping. Right. Because of it.

You know, it's interesting. So let's say they did, you know, just what I'm spitballing at, three or four years. It's cheap. It's whatever in the three millions, somewhere like that. I don't know if he's playing well to get him to do that you probably have to give him three million um you know can you then go into next year with matt murray but if you find that your salary cap situation is tightening you find that samson off looks like a legitimate number one can you find a cheaper backup if it ever got there before the deadline next year?

And again, you know, we can get accused of getting way ahead of ourselves, but this is the way. No, but management doesn't. Right. They have to think that way. They have to think this way. And I think if I was to piece together two starts, two consecutive starts for Samsonov,

that type of thinking would lead into why we saw Samsonov starting against St. Louis and not Matt Murray, who will get Arizona. Right. And by the way, if you saw Arizona beat Colorado last night, and if you were still fresh off of their win in Toronto earlier this year, it's not a given. No, they beat Boston as well.

Arizona beat them for one of their four losses, I think, is to Arizona. There you go. All right. So thoughts on the overtime before we get into Willie. Let's get into Keefe's decision to start on the defensive side of the puck with Kemp opening up overtime. Wanted to give that a look today. It changes the dynamic of overtime pretty significantly. I thought we defended the first bit, obviously, well. And I don't know whether

it's a factor or not. I'm not quite sure. But later in the overtime, when you see our best guys still have legs, still have energy, the way that Willie did to jump on that pocket takeoff, you know, I don't know if that's the reason why that that works out that way but you know uh you know I like the way that it played out to me so can I give you my two cents on this 100 all right so if you look at power play statistics and when they have success throughout a period you always think that the power play is going to do well at the start of a period on fresh ice right but that's not the case at all that you actually nhl teams score less frequently when the power play is in the first minute of the of the um period and my theory on that is defensively you have energy

right like that's hard to do when the pk stop, starts, go, they're fresh, they're back and forth. It's hard to create against fresh defensive players. And I kind of think that might be the same for overtime. So the other team's going to put out their best offensive players. You put out your best defensive ones. You have a pretty good chance of squashing that first attempt from the other side and then you get to get your best players out there against the other teams

fourth fifth and sixth best players say so what do you think is there some logic here to the the idea of starting with a defensive group uh well you know the first thing i noticed was how long camp's shift was. Well, St. Louis had the puck for a week. With the loss draw. Right. Right? So now you've really down to a four-minute overtime,

and Matthews, Marner haven't seen the ice yet. Yeah. Right? Yep. And yeah, I don't know. I mean, are you constantly thinking of going forward here or are you waiting for that one opportunity? And Nylander had a very long shift on his game-winning goal too.

I think he was well over. Oh, yeah, Matthews was cooked by the time they scored. Matthews was cooked, but Nylander didn't remotely exert the same amount of energy over that minute and 13. Oh, he's a saver. He's a conserver. He plays in conservation mode until it's time to hit the mattress. Just waiting for that one moment, that little bit of weakness,

and I will conserve it. Like, he could have had a two-minute shift, and his pulse maybe not over, like, you know, 60, 80. Same as me watching on the couch with Cheetos on my chest. But he's the type of guy now where he'll pounce, and he did all over tarasenko he made tarasenko look old and slow yeah on that play yeah he got separation quick you know to your you know your point here there's almost no way to convince me that playing matthews marner tavarez nylander whether it's Riley those guys less is a good idea it it reminds me of one

of those things where it's like if you try a bad idea and it works is it good is it good for your team like playing Yarncroft in the top six like do you want to get in the in the habit of playing David Kampf and TJ Brody to start your overtime and say that this is going to be the way to success. Tough to argue, right? It's one. They've won both times they've done this. You know, but that's a two-game sample size. Do you want to be right when you try something that's maybe not brilliant?

You know what I'm surprised, JB, at more, and I thought last night was a perfect example, is that if I am in Craig Berube's shoes last night behind the bench, St. Louis bench, I give the green light to rag the puck. Me, personally, after watching what i witnessed over 60 minutes i'd like my chances a hell of a lot more going to a shootout yeah than i would three on three against the toronto maple leafs and i know the record's bad yes i know it yeah it's bad but it's it's a it's a it is correctable to balance the field. But when I watch a struggling Samsonov last night,

and my goalie just stopped a penalty shot and is feeling good on one-on-one breakaways, I take my chances over Binnington, over samsonov in a shootout last night yeah in that game i'll take binnington i think that's probably part of why the leafs have had such struggles in overtime is i bet you're right that some of the coaching against them is this in general like we don't want to exchange chances. Like we shoot it, they shoot it, we shoot it, they shoot it. It's like, hang on to it until you definitely have a chance. If you can't get a grade eight chance, let's just run it back, regroup.

Cause yeah, they, they do have all that elite talent. And some of that may have been coaching that has seen the leaf struggle the way they have an OT. And, and Willie had, I think, i think a uh an opportunity maybe where i saw him drive to the net hard but just waiting for that one opportunity with his talent and to be able to kind of as you said separate from tarasenko and then go in and and just like just shut down Bennington on the backhand to me is just, it's, it's now managing. It's just being a little smarter, a little bit more cunning. And, you know, at the same time,

I don't want them out there a minute and 13 seconds, right? I don't know. That's another story in itself. That's another story in itself. But the talent is there that they just need to to wait for that one opportunity you know what i want to know and i wish someone could ask him this is on the the way he gets the puck from tarasenko he baits him basically like he puts his stick to the inside on tarasenko quickly and makes Tarasenko pull it away towards the wall.

And the second Nylander put his stick to the inside so Tarasenko would move the puck, he went and poked it on the other side. And I wonder if he was thinking, in terms of stripping the puck from him, about, all right, I'm going to lead him that way. It was brilliantly done. And then obviously we know how he skates and can finish.

Yeah. On pace for 49 goals 94 points currently has 21 and 19 like that's that's next level stuff he has found another gear as you wrote about in the contract uh discussion with this guy it's a good time hey don't you think it's a good time that was well done he looks like a bargain here for the Leafs, though. You know, they really feel like they have three superstars this year. Tavares has been very, very good, too. You know, I separate him a little bit from the pack of the four,

but very, very good. I think it's fair. And the one thing, again, and he scored, and he's a fantastic goal scorer. Great play, by the way, by him and Marner. Marner's cut back? Yes. Yeah. But overly surprised to hear his minutes last night.

Did you see the tally of his minutes? No. Yeah. 14-51, I think. Really? You tend not to pay guys $11 million for under 15 minutes. Well, do you know what Marner's what marner was he must have been way way more i think came over uh 20 again i think he was pretty locked in uh

yeah i got him in 20 minutes yeah bunting played four more minutes than tavaris last night what is that about well you know i'm watching last night's game jb and i'm watching two guys go you know head to head against each other in o'reilly and tavaris and a lot of similarities to me there for sure there are comparison. That you've got extremely high IQ guys. Good face-off guys. Good face-off guys. But they're just not gifted skaters. No. Right?

It doesn't come naturally to them. They've got to work for every inch that they get out there. And I don't know whether or not Sheldon feels like he's watching JT and feeling like he doesn't have that energy or the legs that he had maybe two, three weeks ago. And is this a way to maybe kind of conserve him a little bit over an 82 game season you know i was wondering do you think that being a less efficient skater is more or less of a

problem in playoffs when it gets harder and heavier and the the grind wears on like i wonder i don't know that playoff hockey is faster when it gets later in playoffs anyway, like in the third and fourth round, I wouldn't say the game is faster, but you know, for I'm wondering if the game will come back to guys like that, seeing the success O'Reilly had in his playoff run, or if this is going to be a problem for the Leafs and Tavares as they get deeper into the year. I do recall even in Islander days, JB where uh a few different scouts had told me that with john tavaris that there is there has been a tendency for him to to slow down yeah uh late in in seasons i wonder if they do something about that like they got the statistics on this

they have the the past history just like you and i did like i know load management is not an nhl thing but you're right that this could be the version of it saying hey where can we alleviate some of the minutes from this guy knowing knowing that he's still elite when he's fresh and when he's got that pop in his stride. Yeah. Do you see Ryan O'Reilly moving by the trade deadline? And again, I don't think St. Louis is ready to make any decisions at all in terms of their direction. You watch that team and there's some moments last night where you go, yeah, that team should contend.

Yeah. And then there's other times that we watch a shorthanded goal by Kerfoot and go, what are you guys, idiots? How do you leave a guy that open in front of the net? I know. It is wild because they are only five points uh behind the edmonton oilers for the last wild card spot they have a game in hand there like they're in a good spot but i shouldn't say a good spot but they do have to get past a better oilers team a better

flames team is between them like seattle's in and la's in but those teams are going to be top three in the Pacific. We are talking about a conference now that, I don't know, what do you need to make the playoffs there? 92? Yeah. 91, 92? And what's it going to be in the East, 100? 97, 98? That's a big swing.

It is. It is for sure. So they do feel like a team too where if they get in playoffs having won a cup having veteran guys having some good defensemen where you say yeah they'd be not fun to play and could win a round or two but i still think kipper that they are very honest about where they are one of the things i love about doug armstrong there is think about to previous uh seasons the blues have had on a playoff run like in a year they were going to make playoffs they traded paul stastny to winnipeg whose contract was going to expire in a year they were going to make playoffs they traded kevin shatton kirk you know these are tough decisions that they made in years that they were pretty good. So it's tough for me to look at Armstrong and say,

oh, he thinks they're going to get in. He's not going to move those guys. He does not seem like a guy who hangs on to guys and loses them for nothing. So I am almost certain, knowing that, that Ryan O'Reilly will either be signed or traded and almost certainly traded before the trade deadline. Are his numbers so bad that it would scare teams off of paying what they otherwise would on a regular type of season for him?

My God, you want to get a defensive center and he's minus, what is he, minus 20? Minus 26. I think last night, he went into last night as the worst plus minus in the league. Oh, my God. You want to get a defensive center and he's minus, what is he, minus 20? Minus 26. I think last night, he went in the last night as the worst plus minus in the league. No. Which is just crazy. Didn't he win a Selkie? He won a Selkie, didn't he? This is a great 200-foot player.

He did. He did win a Selkie. The major reason why I picked him to win the stanley cup the year that he went there yeah but those are not ryan o'reilly and type numbers it's funny because there are certain guys who you say that aren't great skaters who thrive with that as they get older because it they're they're the same guy joe thornton you you know, or Jarmer Yager. Those guys were excellent when they were older, even though they were never fleet of foot. But some guys lose just a step too much and can't be the same player.

Interesting to know if O'Reilly's just having a down year on a bad team or if it's a reflection of what he really is at this point and someone's going to give up a boatload to get, you know, pretty seriously damaged goods. Yeah, I think that they're definitely going to be a team that's going to need at least a good month, I think, to see where this thing goes and where it ends up. The Edmonton Oilers with a huge win last night, holding onto that wild card spot in the Western Conference.

Okay, let's take a quick break. We're glad everyone's on board here. Justin Bourne at Kiprios. We're back after these words with Hall of Famer and one of the most colorful hockey players to ever play the game, Brett Hall. This is Real Kipper and Bourne on sportsnet 590 the van all right Welcome back to Real Kipper and Born.

I am on location. Nick Kiprios is currently trying to figure out technology on the other end. We are awaiting Brett Hull, who should be joining us momentarily to answer some questions about the St. Louis Blues. The Blues being an interesting case interesting cases here as we were talking about coming out of the break uh ryan o'reilly is a guy who you know struggling this season minus 26 which is what kipper had given me for information prior the uh to the break there you know near the league worst you know your mileage may vary on your thoughts on plus minus, but the general rule of thumb is you don't want to be near the bottom of the league.

But if you're the Toronto Maple Leafs and you look at a guy like O'Reilly, it's impossible not to imagine what the best of him would look like. And those are the decisions that they'll be up against is what can you get out of a guy who has proven so much before and so far this season is not looking like the best of himself and another guy that is in that ilk and you know thinking about the maple leafs again for potential deadline ads um is uh a montreal canadian right now where josh anderson is an interesting guy that i've talked about for kipper with kipper as well that's that's kind of what we do off the air here we just sit around and say who are some potential ads that could be interesting for the

maple leafs you know o'reilly is the pipe dream just the salary is so much and trying to do the math on that and make that work uh seems like it a little harder anderson unfortunately you're left with the the longer contract um you know and it seems unlike a kipper i'm just spitballing some of the things we talked about of potential ads for the toronto maple leafs at the deadline you're uh you had mentioned to me in the in the past that not in love with the potential idea of a josh anderson a guy that i thought would oh hello have we got kipper can we hear him coming through all right no kipper coming through i was just hearing him on my computer so that was thrilling for all of you i'm sure to get his non-take on

josh anderson they'll continue to work on that uh on the other end of things for us. You know, in talking about deadline stuff and potential situations for the Toronto Maple Leafs about what they may do, it's obviously one of the sexiest conversations around the Leafs is how do they get better before the playoffs? What sort of ads can they make and what sort of ones will they make? I think the biggest debate has been, it comes down to, is it going to be at that left wing position or is it going to be a defenseman? And I watched that hockey game last night and I watched the Leafs often thinking about, are they complete? Where can they add?

Where's the most important place? It's tough not to feel like the guys that i originally had as question marks for them that would be the sandin and lilligren pair it's tough not to feel like they have changed the conversation because they've been so good this season you know they they feel much less like guys who you want as seven eights that can go in and play a few minutes and much more like guys who can in fact be the third pair the you know for a long time i had the concerns that were they physical enough were they strong enough to stand up to some of these bigger guys in playoffs you know you think about going up against the tampa bay lightning their fourth line is pat maroon and

cory perry do you want that to be sandin and lilligren grinding it out in the pits against those guys but you know for a long time that seemed like a non-option to me but just seeing the way those guys move the puck the way they break out of their own end their craftiness and the way that they handle bigger guys i do think now that those guys are solid guys so if you look at the six and you've got riley and brody and hall and giordano and sandin and lilligren i understand why people are saying d is not the area where they need to add they need to find a left winger they need to find additional scoring and you know i i still struggle with the idea that they're not going to need a

seventh d man at some point but it is feeling more and more like they're limited on the offensive side of the puck that they're sorry. I shouldn't say limited in the offense side of the puck limited in the amount of guys who can score it. Just, you know, watching Kerfoot and yarn crock and even Engvall and how effective those guys can be.

It's not, it's not comfort comforting to know that if the big guys get shut down in the postseason that you need one of those guys to score. So you look around the league and you look at the St. Louis Blues, and I'll wrap this back around to someone I considered a little bit there with O'Reilly, is would you maybe want Tarasenko instead? If you're going to pick off the St. Louis Blues,

if they're going to sell someone, I understand that Tarasenko instead? You know, if you're going to pick off the St. Louis Blues, if they're going to sell someone, I understand that Tarasenko just turned the puck over and you just watched Willie Nylander roast him. He's not a perfect hockey player by any means. But if the acquisition cost is less, if he's someone who can create and can score, you know, to mention Anderson again as someone for the Leafs, his contract length is atrocious.

The Tarasenko one is a one-year, one-time deal. Kipper, I'm just kicking around, guys. I think you're with me. Are you there? Yeah, you got me? Yeah, I'm kicking around potential ads for the deadline for the Leafs here. And the question of, I know you had mentioned Josh Anderson, not a guy you love.

Would you rather? No, no, no. There's so much to love about Josh Anderson. Okay. Number one is he's a unique talent. There's just not many Josh Andersons out there. And the closest one is one that's already won a Stanley Cup, and that's Tom Wilson.

But outside of that, you tell me, find me another man that big that can skate like that. Yeah. So for, I think we, when we talked about before, it's like a consistency thing, right?

Like how often do you get that? How often can he be the best of himself type of thing? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Without a doubt. And, uh,

it looks awfully good when you're, when you're in a situation where you're in the first round of the playoffs and he's on Montreal, and those first few shifts are real noticeable of a guy like that, and he's had scoring success against the Leafs as well. Oh, he's had moments. He's had a lot of playoff moments where he's been really good. Great moments.

Yeah. Fantastic moments. And I think that's the one thing that's still missing from that, that leaf lineup is, is a guy that can be in your top nine that can real, really have a physical presence. I wonder if they would consider him then. I didn't really, you're more on board than I thought you would be with the idea of

Anderson. Yeah. Yeah. He's just, he's big and he skates. I mean, it's tough not to love that. I wrote an article last week as well about, you know,

certain players out there and, you know, Lawson Kraus in Arizona, which Lee Fanzel will get a look at tomorrow night, is another guy. But I don't believe for one second Arizona's shopping him or have interest in moving him. I think he's just, if I'm not mistaken, Kraus just signed a long-term deal with Arizona.

And it's not outrageous. I think it comes in around $4.5 million. Yeah, it's just, I guess, for Arizona, when do they want to be good? It just seems like forever. Every time they get anyone who's any good, that's the next guy that they trade away. It's just another asset on a good contract to them them i don't know when they're going to try to

be good but yeah i bet you could get kraus given he's going to be 30 by the time they're good right he's 25 now but it is a good contract 4.3 for the next four years five years even cheaper than i thought yeah until 27 all right you are now the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Okay. Sick, I'm rich. I am offering you Krause and Chikrin. Okay. Talk to me.

What do you need? Before I ask you what you have to give up, just tell me what that does for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Well, I mean, it takes care of two things, two very issues that we have identified. One is a lack of sort of top six, top nine scoring. Not that Kraus, yeah, I mean, Kraus can, he's having a great year on the offensive side of things,

but also the Leafs are 31st in the NHL in scoring from the back end. You know, so Chikrin helps them out there, and it gives them two really good contracts that you feel okay about. So it changes the Leafs entirely. You obviously have to move things around, though, to make it possible. Oh, no, for sure. You're definitely going to have to work, first of all, the ability to squeeze in.

I guess it would come under $9 million for two of those players, which I think is huge value, first of all. I mean, I'm watching Darnell Nurse last night at 9.25 by himself. And it's hard on him every given night to live up to that. Yeah. So here you have two guys like that that can come in collectively under what Darnell's... Yeah, no, I mean, it's wonderful. It's a different ball game so that means you're gonna have to kind of clear out a little bit of money i would assume that

you'd have to give up a couple of contracts to make sure that you can squeeze that in uh kerfoot would come to mind at 3.5 million but keep in mind that you've you've you've started off with 5.6 of Jake Muzzins. Right. Yeah, that's right. That's almost a wash. Consider that, yeah. Right?

It's almost a wash when you have Kerfoot coming back to Arizona, moving Kross in, and having essentially Chikrin take over. this is the fantasy stuff eh like that's the best case scenario for the leafs i gotta think so yeah i gotta think so so what what would you be willing to give up i mean you know given the term on those contracts now now you can talk about, okay, it's Nyes and it's Robertson and it's a first and it's, you know, maybe two firsts. I mean, I shouldn't say maybe. It's got to be two firsts, right? Has to be. I mean, you're talking about two guys who are 25 and what, 26 or something like that and, you know, pretty high-end hockey players on good deals.

I got to think, yeah. like that and you know pretty pretty high-end hockey players on good deals i gotta think yeah well when you look at like what tampa bay had to do for hegel you're not when you make these trades you can't look at the assets out as directly for the player it's for the player versus their contract and hegel is good but the fact that he's making 1.5 million and it was for multiple years that's what you're paying for you're paying for the value deals so you're not just paying for kraus and chikrin you're paying for their excellent contracts yes yeah yeah so two first rounders nice um you got to throw in one more prospect there or is that enough roni and topi are out there i don't you know i'm i know this is a leaf show but i can't claim to be watching much uh european hockey these days we cover the nhl there i don't you know i'm i know this is a leaf show but i can't claim to be watching much uh european hockey these days we cover the nhl so i don't know how those guys are

or what they're expected to be but yeah i mean i think you're pretty comfortable taking a shot if they need one of those guys too that's just it's a it's a monster deal that completely changes the look and feel going up against a Boston or Tampa. Let me ask you, though, does it feel, you know, do you want the best players on a bad team? Do you feel like those guys have the stench of losing on them or wouldn't know how to play in these big games because their whole careers have just been kind of like, ah, it's Arizona.

Anything we do that's good is a positive. My first instinct to tell you is no, I wouldn't worry about it with these two guys. You know why? How about Lindholm from Anaheim who was garbage helping Boston? That's a... He's fine. He's fine.

But OEL in Vancouver isn't isn't no very isn't right yeah good point and there are some people that say that if you if you could get uh oel out of arizona he could win a norris somewhere and it's it's been a disaster there in Vancouver for him. Is that because he went almost 10 years without playing meaningful hockey? It certainly could have something to do with it. I mean, you're just not in those situations enough.

We're talking about Oliver Ekman-Larsen, of course, who's got many years left on, what, 8.25 million in Vancouver. Yeah, that's, I mean, of course, who's got many years left on what? 8.25 million in Vancouver. Yeah, that's, I mean, that contract, that trade looks so bad now. They had the opportunity to move on from the contracts that were killing them, which was Beagle and Roussel and Louis Erickson. Those would be done by now. And now they're once again saddled with this Garland deal and OEL. That did not work out for them, did it?

Not right now, and they are scrambling. There's no question about that. Do they sit and wait on that one? Or are they now in full play to move Bo Horvat? Those are some of the questions. He scored twice last

night, eh? Two more for him. Four-point night. I mean, what kind questions. He scored twice last night, eh? Two more for him. Four-point night. I mean, what kind of trade package is that guy going to fetch? What's he got? Not much, to be honest with you. Every time you say that, I can't believe it. Not much. Tell me who's trading

for him. Leafs? Are the Leafs trading for him. Leafs? Are the Leafs trading for him? That's really all I care about. Tell me about why the Leafs can't work it. Okay. And if it's the boatload that you think, what are you giving up for two months? You're just renting him, right?

Yeah. You're just renting him for 30 games. And hopefully a round or two. No, 30 four rounds yeah that's right need 16 more wins extending into march or sorry into june yeah i i don't know i mean just having traded away what they have traded away you know going into this year they this year's draft they have their first they have a third i have two thirds actually and a fifth i don't know what do you think kip a first would a first do it they need more than that yeah to me to me uh if you want to go get Bo Horvat, I would not go much further than a first and a prospect. And I'm not giving you Matthew Nyes. And hopefully not a recent first.

Maybe you can get them to take your 2024. I can't blow my brains out on another rental. Yeah. brains out on another rental yeah so for for bow you know there's there's going to be a lot of teams that can't go much more than a first rounder and a mid prospect god he's going to end up brewing his head and you know i can't give you uh like it's got to be a 20 to 30 and i still gotta be you know make sure that i can fit him in so something's gonna have to something's i can't i can't give you the boat load that you're looking for right yeah so it's probably not a fit with toronto we'll we'll be interesting to see like i just think if you're the canucks i don't understand waiting you oh there's more suitors at the deadline it's like

what if bo horvath gets hurt? Bo Horvath has been red hot. Like this guy, if you're going to trade him, he can get the most possible for him today. I don't get the whole idea that you have to wait till the early March to trade this guy and give a team 30 games. You do because you're not stepping up

with an offer they can't refuse. They think it's going to get better. And you know what the problem is, JB, if you look historically, it tends to get worse at the deadline, where you think you're going to get your first rounder, and you end up getting your second and a fourth instead. Yeah. And this front office doesn't have a ton of experience.

Rutherford obviously does but you got a first time gm right and patrick alveen a whole new new staff there so yeah i don't know to me it's start with some little wins you get some clarity for your organization i also think there's something negative about being held in limbo waiting for that next step to waiting life is going to change when you move on from guys it just feels like their team is temporary and they know it i don't know it's it's a mess in vancouver right now all right you want some breaking news what do you got toronto maple leafs find one hundred thousand dollars by the national hockey league

find a hundred thousand find a000. What'd they do? They violated the collective bargaining agreement. The National Hockey League announced today that it has fined the Toronto Maple Leaf organization $100,000 for the team's travel to St. Louis on December 26, 2022. I bet you they knew that that fine was coming and did not care. I would assume that we are completely splitting hairs on what time the plane left on December 26th.

Because you're allowed to travel on the 26th? Allow six minutes, eight minutes. You know, are we talking 1154 p.m. to 1201 p.m.? That is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. The league's like, let's just put 100K in the coffers here and the Leafs behest. Yeah, yeah. Hey, listen, I know the Leafs have a boatload of money,

but nobody wants to just stroke a check for $100,000 for nothing. No kidding. $100,000. Man. All right. But, you know, at the same time, I don't know. I think, listen, this wasn't around when I played, okay? So we were all in a mad scramble.

You get back whenever you get back. Most nights I played on December 26th. Yeah. So they don't want anybody traveling on 26th. But, you know, if the players want to leave a little extra early right and no one's complaining right what do you care if it leaves 10 minutes or half an hour or one hour uh at midnight you know like if the players aren't complaining you think any of the Leafs complained about I know playing leaving too early no like when you're coming back and you got to get there you got to be at the rink you might as

well just get there you know I'm curious to know what time they would have left or what they're grinding over here because it seems like something that the team the play maybe the players did complain maybe they said hey we weren't supposed to be back this early and the Leafs said we had to punish us that's probably not happening yeah so listen uh what's the alternative that you get up 5 a.m on day off yeah day off right and it's like I gotta think that this is gonna have to kind of get fixed a little bit somehow some way. Because if you're the players, I get you want to protect an extra day. Yeah.

But you're not doing me any favors to play on the 27th. And we heard all the scrambles, you know, to get in. Well, yeah. Like physically getting there was challenging. I can't believe they would weigh in on this with money. Well, PA's got a job to do, and that's protect the agreement. I get that. But we're going to have to do some research on this one,

me and you, to figure out exactly what time that played last. The one thing I see is just Chris Johnson had tweeted that the league's collective bargaining agreement stipulates that the 23rd to the 26th are supposed to be free of team activities. So I'm presuming this is like they were supposed to leave at midnight on the 27th? I suppose technically you are free and clear to leave after 12.01 Eastern. Right. I guess.

So stupid. Is it local? Is it midnight local? to leave after 1201 Eastern, I guess. I guess. Or is it local? Is it midnight local? Like if you're LA, but you're losing three hours. So I don't know. It sounds goofy. The whole thing sounds goofy to me. You know what else happened is Keefe got fined $25,000

for demeaning contact directed at the officials during the NHL game on Tuesday, December 27th. We talked about that earlier in the show, right? He was very animated and I find that interesting that they would

not give him a warning. I know. So there must be some history there already that they're not very happy with them. He must've had a bit of a, a book on him. Right.

They must, they must add a book on him to slap him with 25. Yeah. Okay. So Kipper, do you want to go to the text line with Tristan or do you want us to take a break and try Holly here? Why don't we try a break?

I don't know what hole Holly would be on, but maybe we can find out after the break. We also got Luke Fox on the wings here. Plenty more here on Real Kipper and Born. We'll take a quick break, and we'll follow it up after these words. All right. Sounds good.

This is Real Kipper and Born on sportsnet 590 the van kipper live on location 10 000 leagues under the sea i gotta thinkulley's in extra holes. Think so? Yes. And there's probably a lot of cash on the line here. Listen, I don't blame Hulley if my choices are hanging out with you or me or playing golf right now. I'm putting a D in the ground, brother. Hey, can we make sure Luke Fox shows up? He can't be golfing. Yeah.

Have a look outside. I don't think he's playing. Don Valley might still be open, but I don't think he's playing at dawn valley might still be open but i don't think so you get any golf gear for christmas kip nah nothing i'm good i'm good uh yeah i didn't need much there you're a grown-up you just buy stuff when you need it it's nice oh gosh did you get you guys loaded up i mean your kids are young so i'm sure you went nuts you know it's that they're that age, like six. My daughter's almost three.

It's the peak years for Christmas. So yeah, not going to say it was a bargain, but fortunately my son has no idea what things cost. So like a $6.99 Nerf gun from the drugstore at the corner is worth a million dollars to him. We had a good time. You know that's not gonna last very long hey they as soon as they know how to use amazon you're done yeah we're still okay there in the interim and good news kip we are

joined by luke fox wow thanks for joining us luke merry belated christmas and happy new early new year, gentlemen. So where are you? Did you, uh, did, did sports net find you for leaving too early or too late? I am in mullet arena for the very first time. And I, I told Morgan Riley,

I know he hasn't talked to the media in a long time, but I have to talk to you guys first. So, um, he's, he's back practicing. The Leafs are in this tiny cozy little uh university rink um and it's quite a scene but uh being in the desert i did not expect this it's

cool and it's rainy probably the only day of the year that it rains in uh in arizona but here we are so the news just came down luke that the leafs have been fined $100,000 for violating the CBA rule of leaving on December 26th. Have you gotten any news or specifics on how it went down? I hate to tell you that I don't because I just landed in Phoenix and rushed to the rink and just got here. Good news, I do. I have info.

I don't have any news. Okay, let's hear it. Let's hear it, Justin. There's a Twitter account called Flight Tracker or Sport Tracker, whatever it is. They left at 10.16 p.m. out of their private airport here in Toronto and landed at 10 whatever so they according to my math sorry 10 18 they left 102 minutes early and it cost them a hundred thousand dollars almost

a thousand dollars per minute early that they left oh my goodness well i know it was important for them to try and squeeze in a morning skate in st louis they did they didn't want to just go in cold after those days off and not have a morning skate but so i Louis. They didn't want to just go in cold after those days off and not have a morning skate. So I guess in order to get there in time, they broke a rule. Interesting. Yeah, fascinating concept that they would find under that. This really does come down to,

does this give them a competitive edge? And that's the only thing that you wonder. And let's just say, for argument's sakes, that the Leafs knew that they would get fined $100,000, and they just said, no, I want my players in bed at a reasonable hour, and it's worth the two points. Is that a possibility here? It's interesting.

I mean, no owner wants to cut that check, but if it means a win, I can see where you're making from. Maybe they do. Luke, maybe they do. And they go, hey, listen, if three quarters of the league doesn't want to write that check,

that gives us a competitive edge. We'll take it. I can't blame them if that's the case. Well, I mean, the organization tries to look for an angle any way it can, right, whether it's by investing more in their medical staff or their skills and development staff or their practice facilities. So it wouldn't surprise me, but I don't know if it just seems like something that you'd like to avoid if possible, especially when it just comes down to a matter of a couple hours. For sure.

So, Luke, what's your thoughts on where the Leafs are at right now? They've won. They're on a three-game win streak. They've started Samsonov a couple of games in a row here, which is is curious why don't you just give us an overview of where reset on the leafs as we head post christmas and into january yeah i mean i think they're in a really good place especially considering where they were a month into the season they had an absolutely fabulous november and a really strong december much like last season um rebounded through those early hurdles. I think the most promising things to me is the fact that they've been dealt some adversity in the terms of

multiple injuries to their defensemen, namely Morgan Riley, TJ Brody was out for a while, and then it's been a steady leak of certain guys, whether it's Jordy Benn or Victor Mete. Their depth has really been tested, and they've responded really well to that. So I think that's the main positive. And the second one is the defensive buy-in as a five-man unit. I think that bodes them really well. It seems to me, top-down, the messaging is, yeah, we want to have a fantastic regular season and get home ice if we can, get the highest seed possible, but really we want to learn how to win in a more playoff type of game.

And you're not going to get that on a lot of nights, especially with so many sort of weaker clubs in the NHL right now. You know, there's a lot of soft nights. But to go into St. Louis and get a win when, you know, you're probably not at your best, to grind out low-scoring games when at the early beginning of the season, the five-on-five offense was a little sluggish. You know, these are all positive signs.

The fact that they rank second overall in the NHL in goals against, I think is just a remarkable thing. You know, just next to Boston, which is just tearing through the league. But to be second in that category, I think if you would have told a lot of the fans, you know, two, three years ago that this so-called high-flying offensive core would do that, I think that's something that would surprise people. I think it bodes well for playoff success.

The problem is you step back and you look at the standings, and the East is absolutely loaded. I believe six of the top eight teams by points percentage are all in the East, and, of course, three of those are right in the Atlantic. So they're going to have their work cut out for them. Luke, were you surprised to see Samsonov take the net in St. Louis? He got the last start. You assume, if anything, they'd come back to Matt Murray,

but there was Samsonov to start post-Christmas. Yeah, I was, Kipper. Yeah, I was mildly surprised, just because they'd been pretty much straight alternating one and the other for the bulk of December. And I think he kind of asked for it. He really wasn't happy with his game in Washington, which was his worst performance as a Leaf.

He got the win against Philadelphia at the matinee right before the Christmas break. But after that game, you know, we talked to him and he really wasn't happy. You know, he kind of pointed to the goal scorers bailing him out. And I don't even think he had a fantastic game at St. Louis. You know, after the game, he admitted he was a little bit tired. He said probably everyone was, but they had a two goal lead and then all of a sudden you know it it's going to overtime and the leafs overtime record hasn't been the best this season so they were at risk of of you know squandering another one because the goaltending was was rather average

and these three these three soft starts are coming off back-to-back shutouts so he's he's slipping a little bit uh but i mean i think that's the beauty of having the tandem matt muriel goats more night here in uh in tempe and then hopefully give samson off a little bit of rest and time to get his his mind right so samson went back to the leafs and said i want to play more and you're telling me now uh on some nights when i played four minutes uh all i needed to do was ask for more, and I would have stopped more. Yeah, if you said please, maybe. Cherry on top.

All it takes. Well, some other guys are going to have their minutes kind of shortened a little bit here in the near future. I think Rasmus Sandin is day-to-day, and Morgan Riley is fairly soon. What are the updates on those guys and and i guess what do you expect to see happen with the decor when they do come back yeah it's going to be fascinating because um they have been rolling without them i would expect that connor timmons the new guy probably sits uh once one of these guys is healthy they're both here

on this trip uh we're going to hear from sheldon Keefe probably in about five minutes, so we should get a better sense of if one of them is able to go as early as tomorrow. But the fact that they're on the trip, the fact that Morgan Riley isn't just skating alone and he's now participating in practice, I think is a really positive step. And you know the team has been extra cautious cautious and they've been allowed to be extra cautious because the wins are there so they haven't felt pressured to rush anyone back from injury we're talking to luke fox nhl writer for sportsnet.ca uh kelly yonkrock three points last night uh i was telling jb don't think for one second that they ever signed him expecting him to be a top six uh forward but essentially that's what he was last night and i think he'll be a top six tomorrow night against

arizona yeah and good on him right like here's this opportunity nick robertson's injured dennis malgan didn't couldn't stick and he got traded sent out the door it's like there's this gaping hole at second line left wing just begging for someone to snatch it and i think we all have our suspicions that that might be an area that kyle dubas addressed before march 3rd um the trade deadline but in the meantime if you're kelly yarn croak why not make yourself uh you know available to just snatch that and run with it? He's got points, a little point run here. I believe it's like eight in his past seven games. That was his best night as a Leaf, three points.

The goal was, you know, it was something at the time was a go-ahead goal, but what really impressed me was his assist on the Kirkwood shorthanded goal. All the work he did on the corner, like just a pure effort play. And he says that, you know, five on five that, that Marner and Tavares just make it easy to play with. And of course, you know, that's kind of us on the outside. That's how we think would be easy to play with those guys.

But you think of all the guys that have had an opportunity and it hasn't been easy for them. It wasn't that easy for Malgan. It wasn't that easy for Robertson. and it hasn't been easy for them it wasn't that easy for malgan it wasn't that easy for robertson it hasn't always been easy for kerflet so if yarn crock can compile some points contribute offensively just be reliable in his forecheck and responsible defensively um you know he could build a little case for himself that maybe that he's the guy to take that position. So looking at the guys at the fringes, because that's the sexiest thing to talk about,

but hey, Toronto Maple Leafs show here. Joey Anderson is in the lineup pretty consistently. Dryden Hunt is maybe someone who's going to get some opportunities down there. Are we seeing some shape of what the fourth line will look like by the time they get to playoffs? Yeah, we're starting to. And I think it's really telling that Kyle Dubas made that trade of Dennis Malcom for Dryden Hunt. It's almost as if he's come around a little bit on his thinking that you need a bit more

of a balance in terms of the type of players that you dress on the fringes of your lineup. Remember guys like Nick Patan and stuff? Just like, let's get as many skilled guys as we can and hopefully we'll outscore the opposition. Well, I think he's coming around to the realization that you need a bit of a different look, a bit of a different identity at the bottom of your lineup. I don't think Dryden Hunt's going to come in here

and set the world on fire, but I do think that from all accounts, he'll be a reliable fourth-line player. You know what you're going to get. He's going to finish some checks, hopefully be hard on the forecheck. If he can chip in some scoring, you know, all the better, but I think they want to have a different element in that bottom group. I mean, just think of the energy.

Even though it was a short time, a guy like Colin Blackwell brought a little bit of spark to the fourth line for a while there, and I think that's just something that the Leafs need. Just a different look. They kind of figured out what Dennis Noggin was. It wasn't working. Let's see what Dryden Hunt can do in that role. And I think Sheldon Keefe was hesitant to mess with a winning lineup in St. Louis. But then now that they've had a practice under their belt, I would expect Hunt to get his debut at some point during this trip. He's not a big guy. He's not really, really mean.

Isn't he just another Aston Reese? He may be. He may be. So do you need two? Well, I think it's worth a look. I mean, did you want the Dennis Malgan experiment to continue? I mean, he's not a difference maker. I think that trade is still to come. But by all accounts, you know, he's a hard four checker,

and maybe you do need two of those guys on your fourth line. If you can just sustain some ozone pressure, and I know it's not that sexy, like you're not going to pile up goals, but if you can sustain ozone pressure, get off the ice and let the big guys hop on, that seems to be the plan for the fourth line. JV, you buying that?

Yeah, I am. I am buying that. It feels like they're able to keep the puck out of their own net and you look at all the fancies and you know even not the not fancies they don't get scored on a lot i think they're not asking for much more than let us rest our best guys and you know that's the plan right kipper is it yeah no yeah for me i i need more out of that fourth line i think you want him to do something other than tread water? Just six feet, 190 pounds.

If I go back, guys, to even when Tampa Bay came in, there were shifts out of Maroon and Belmore, and I think Belmore just absolutely ran Marner into the wall. And it's just the Leafs aren't heavy on the fourth line like that. And even if they had one guy, just one guy, that presented a little heavier than 6 feet, 190 pounds, like Austin Reese and Dylan do, I think it would go a longer way. Well, let me bring that to the decor then. And when I was treading water there by myself talking about, you know, what the Leafs needed, I feel like Lilligren and Sandin are good enough

to be in the lineup every night. There's a third pair, but they don't have the size. Luke, do you think that that's something the team would want to address? Yeah, I do. And I think it is something they're taking a look at. I do think they feel like they need a different type of defenseman. I mean, Jordy Ben kind of is that, but, you know, he's getting a little bit longer in the tooth, and he's more of a depth guy.

I think in a perfect world, you have a guy that plays in your top four that brings that element. And, you know, obviously it's something they thought about over the summer and decided to stick with Jake Muzzin. They thought he'd be that guy. They thought he could stay healthy. It hasn't worked out. So I think ever since the realization that Muzzin's injury is going to be long-term,

I think they've started to think that they need a little bit more bite on that back end. And, you know, one of the names that comes up for me is Luke Shen. And that's not just because he's a former Leaf. I think he's kind of rejuvenated his career. He's playing more minutes in Vancouver. I'm not a believer that the Canucks are going anywhere. And I think it would serve their best interest to sell.

And he's the right shot. I really like that fit. And I don't think he should be too expensive. Another guy is Gavrikov in Columbus, but I expect that. That's a lot more expensive. Yeah, I was going to say his price is probably a bit higher than Luke Shen's will be. So it depends on what kind of market you want to dabble in, like how much do you want to spend on that element?

Yeah, I hear Tampa Bay want Luke Shen back. Is that right? That's a swing, isn't it? A little bit? It is, yeah. You'd rather get him than have Tampa get him. If they face him in the first round? Well, is there not going to be an arms race between these three teams in the Atlantic? Like, there must be. Like, there not going to be an arms race between these three teams in the Atlantic?

There must be. Boston's going to be eager. It could be Bergeron's last crack. Krejci's last crack. I think it could be an Atlantic arms race in the next month or two. Who's in the best position?

Well, right now, Boston. Their goaltending is phenomenal. They have position? Well, right now, Boston, their goaltending is phenomenal. They have the experience and the knowledge that they can do it. I think there's also a mental element at play with Toronto

that they need to overcome. That Boston and Tampa do not have because they know they've done it. The Leafs just believe they can. I think that does play into it. And also, I also wonder about the GMs and how hard they're willing to swing. We've seen Don Sweeney take a swing. Hampus Lindholm was a big fish last summer.

Breezeball always goes for the big fish. He outbid Toronto for Brandon Hagel at the last deadline. Kyle Dubas has been a bit gun-shy nick felino thing didn't work out so i i also kind of wonder about how aggressive these three gms are going to be jb uh as far as who's in the best position with their cap what do you think well you know the the one thing that the Leafs have going for them is the ability to spend the Muzzin money you know at some point here so that that gives them a little bit of leg up there you know I think the initial thought was okay you're gonna go and get a D to replace Muzzin who costs about the same but this is why I'm asking about Sandin and Lilligren it feels

like those guys have stepped up and kind of allowed them to spend somewhere else so uh luke before you joined earlier we were talking about arizona and chickering and kraus and some of the young talented guys in arizona that might be available you know would that be within the realm of realistic that it could be a chickering or someone like that well Are we seeing an audition? Is he auditioning tomorrow night to Chikrin? Right. Oh, I think he'd gladly welcome a trade to Toronto, for sure. Yeah. For sure.

But it's just, what price are you willing to pay? Like, I think Chikrin would look great in a Leafs uniform. I think Moss and Crouse would, too. I think that's a great call. But it's just, how much are you willing to sacrifice? Like if you're Bill Armstrong, you're not – I don't think Nick Robertson in a first does it. I think the price has got to be higher.

And so then are you willing to part with Matthew Nye's, right? Are you willing to part with a Lilligran or a Sandin? Like now – like it's going to cost. It's going to cost if you want to tread in those waters because I think some team will pay. I wonder, Kip, do you think they would trade a Sandeen or a Lilligren? I'd be, you'd be crazy not to ask for one of them if you're giving up Chikrin

and you don't want to give multiple first rounders away right and and luke's absolutely correct that if you're if you're even thinking about asking about kraus who again isn't on the market who arizona is is are not pushing or shopping, then Matthew Nye has to go back. And let me ask you both, do you think that the goaltenders have done enough that that is not a place that they will pursue at the deadline? Well, I would say check back in on the health of the goaltenders in mid-February.

Yeah, health's a good point. But right now, no, I think they're content with it. Absolutely. But circle back closer, too. Yeah, the stock's halfway through almost. They will not bail out on it until someone says, I can't step on the ice. Yeah, that makes the most sense possible.

All right, Kip, got anything else for Luke? No, we're good, Luke. Thanks for stepping in, pal. So what are your first initial thoughts when you walk into a college building and know that the best league in the world is playing out of this place? Yeah, I was a little shocked. But you know what? It is a nicer facility than I imagined.

I think for some reason in my head, I thought it would be a little run down or something. But it is tiny. It is cozy. But it'll be fun. I'm really looking forward to tomorrow night. I think it'll be a unique atmosphere, especially with Austin Matthews homecoming here.

Right, right. Now, has Austin scored there? Or is, like, I don't know how many games he's played. Do you have any of that info, or am I going to have to get our producer on it? I'm on it. I'm on it. Has he scored in Arizona yet? Sure, he has. I think he has.

I'm pretty sure. But, yeah, better get someone to do the research. Alright. Usually there's a lot of distractions and sometimes it doesn't click. I was fortunate enough as a Washington Capital

I think in my second game to score a goal at Maple Leaf Gardens and I just thought, three? Ah, he's all set then. Just a walk in the park. They're coming off a big win last night, Luke. It may give them some trouble.

All right. Keep an eye on it. All right, Luke. Thanks for joining us, buddy. Appreciate it, Luke. LukeFox.SportsNet.ca So he's got three already matthews does against arizona that's what i was told all right okay three yeah so that that's uh you know i i gotta believe against everyone now i am i'm looking i got one in 2017 but i i my research is worse than tristan's apparently that That's good. All right, Tristan. I think Tristan came in my ear and said three.

I wasn't sure he was able to talk to you from wherever you are in the bunker. Yes. That's great. Definitely. Definitely. All right, should we venture away from the Toronto Maple Leafs for a sec? All right. I got something for you.

Where do you want to go? The comment, former NHLer John Scott says, Connor McDavid is the best player in the world, but wouldn't be in his top five picks if building a playoff team right now. Wow. Any thoughts on that? Is John Scott a top five guy on your next all-star team? Yeah.

I, you know, all due respect to john scott and i've heard similar sentence sentiments about how you know not sure and playoffs or whatever but i i'm of the belief that's just crazy talk this guy's just he's the best player on earth hold the first is there any more uh substance to this comment on where he's coming from on this not for me not for me kipper like you you watch this guy's highlight reel. Did he explain to John Scott going to any deeper reasons on why he wouldn't be in his top five? Not,

not that I have it in front of me or heard it myself. My, my presumption is he's talking about playoff style being a more physical game. Just to guess. Oh, really? I don't know.

I don't get that. He was off the charts last spring. He also, right now, Connor McDavid, I actually did a little segment on this. By the way, so I land yesterday at Pearson Airport. Godspeed to our friend Mike Fuda, who

broke his ribs and wasn't able to be on TV. I landed last night, no sleep, and they're like, hey, can you cover for Feud? So I went to be on tv i landed last night no sleep and they're like hey uh can you cover for few so i went in did a little television last night um and i ended up talking about mcdavid one of the things that i was looking into this guy is on pace for over 60 goals and 155 points this season i feel like we're not giving enough love to one of the all-time greats in NHL history, the absolute peak. This guy is unbelievable this season.

I'm sure you've watched. Yeah, I have. But I'm wondering, to your point that he's not getting that much love, how many other people are watching? I don't know. The Oilers are like 19 and 16 or something like that i don't know that this is their best year maybe they i don't know if that has anything to do with that or just you know he's he's out west and you know the majority of the hockey world is like, you know, and I'm not, listen,

it's just one of those where the West get the shit end of the stick. Yeah. You know, we know that. We know that. The writers who vote know that. It's that, are you staying up and watching the games thing here? Yeah. That's my only point.

Like, you know, even if the Edmonton Oilers were on fire in the top five team, is it just because it's a Western thing here and just the bulk of the hockey world just doesn't give West Coast games enough respect? I also think it's like the expectation and the, you know, he's done it for so long and so consistently that it truly is just like you kind of know he's doing great

and you assume he's doing great without even looking. You just assume he's first in the league. But it's silly to me that we, you know, don't give it more attention. I just imagine this guy was on the Toronto Maple Leafs and that plays into your point too. But the amount of attention and love he'd be getting is just like it's got to be double triple quad whatever the heck it is because this season he has been unbelievably electric and is carrying a mediocre team you know with getting not great goaltending

to relevance and to the playoffs once again yeah i. I think, I just don't think that people are either, you know, not following him or not following the Oilers, but they aren't watching. All right, well, let me ask you something else about not following. World Juniors, are you a follower? Listen, I think I probably uh turned the tv on right when they either went up five two or moments after that and i i shut the tv off and turned it back on again because i thought it was a glitch what's that that they were up five two no that they were down. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Right?

So, and I did watch the rest of it going that Canada's going to come back and find a way to squeeze one out here, but Czechia did not allow that to happen. So, right now, the Cool Bet has a bet you can place, which is plus 2,500 if someone scores on the michigan play uh in the next game given that the canada tried to what three times over the course of that game the coach came out and said you know it's a great it's a skill play it can help us score goals but i don't know your thoughts on that i saw some people saying it was kind of reflective of what

canada thought this tournament was going to be just like a personal skills showboat what are your thoughts didn't one of the players on canada say we're not going to win a gold uh uh we're not going to miss our michigan ourselves or away to a gold or something yes i thought that was a great line i thought that was a great line um listen it's it's fun for a lot of people to to watch it constantly and the attempts are legit now we know that uh but um you know we we do know what wins hockey games and championships and tournaments and uh you know there's a lot of there's a lot more issues right now a lot more issues i think early for canada uh on the on the blue line or in that before you even have a meaningful discussion on a couple of attempts yeah you know though kipper like so it is a legitimate attempt and anytime you can try to score it's a great play

so no criticism of the play or the decisions or whatever and i know people are going to poo-poo the idea here that i'm going to say something negative about it because again skill play and you can score on it it just is reflective of a mindset to me where you know you don't normally think of doing a ton of stuff like that without a pretty relaxed mindset. And some guys are able to play that way and full credit to them. I don't know. It just, it is three times in one game to attempt that. Yeah.

You know, clearly, you know, you're trying to play a certain way. At some point, there's got to be someone open. I don't know. I'm not saying they shouldn't try whenever they can. It is maybe reflective of what they thought the game was going to be or they're going to pile on goals and they want to be on the highlight reel. Say what you will from generation to generation, it's still perceived as a hot dog move.

Sure. Yeah, there's that element to it for sure. It's always going to be that element that, you know, there's a trickery involved and the percentages of it working are against you, right? Really against you. not saying that it can't be done as as many have proven it now but many is it is it really many or is it just a fraction of the number of players playing at a very high level every night you know and i think for them a bigger problem is is goaltending where canada's goaltending our national goaltending is becoming a bit of a crisis. Like, not just the world juniors, but you look at our goaltenders in the NHL,

and it's fun when you play the game of, like, who's your Olympic team for Canada, and we all kind of joke around about who it would be, but truly, Kip, like, Canada does not have the goaltending. It used to be Carey Price and Waugh and Brodeur and, you know, all sorts of superstars. Who's our best goalie? Marc-Andre Fleury. And he's at the very tail end of his career.

Yeah. So who do we have? Logan Thompson? I'm dead serious. Like, Kerry, what's his name, Carter Hart? Yeah. Yeah, the goalie market in general has dropped. Unless you're Russian.

And what's dropped is the feeling of their importance for me. Well, it's like running backs in football where they just said, ah, anyone can do it. Well, I certainly get the sense that when you've had so many of them train a certain way which they all kind of look the same now that's the idea I shouldn't say anyone can do it they say anyone can do it but who can do it

that much better than the next guy not many people yeah but it just seems to me like just make the saves that you're supposed to make I don't want you to be Dominic Hoschuk anymore you don't have to roll. I don't want you to be Dominic Hasek anymore. You don't have to roll around. You don't have to, you know, have this look upon you of being desperate.

Stay conservative. Stay square to the shooter. Play the percentages. And just stop the ones that you're supposed to. And if there's a backdoor that we don't't have covered that's not your fault yeah and then also that like when there's a perfect shot like riley on samsonov whatever we the media just go well it's a perfect shot you know you'll give those ones up here and there rather than yeah expecting guys to kind of flail or be desperate to your point so yeah it is i agree with you that that's part of the problem when when do we see in the

past stanley cup champion goalies be so expendable like hey we we're done with you we don't need you anymore colorado darcy kemper yeah stanley cup champion uh we're good thanks we'll find somebody else and and not have you know this uproar so go in any era in the 80s and the 90s you know and then and tell me like which stanley cup champion team showed up the following year with their number one goalie gone and you don't really hear two words about it really well it's funny too because that also kind of happened with coaching remember the capitals won the cup in the next year they're like ah we just don't want to pay that much we're sure the next guy could do it just as well yeah no that was different though think so that was that was uh already done and um determined prior to the outcome. Was it? Yes.

Yes. But it is interesting. Darcy Kemper is a 920 save percentage and 22 starts for the Washington Capitals, who frankly haven't been good. So he's kind of kept them afloat. They've been good lately, though. Well, I know. He's given them a chance to get back in it.

Yeah. Yeah. They have, and they're getting more out of, more out of Kuznetsov. They're close to getting Tom Wilson back. Backstrom, our friend Alan May, says that it's hard to believe, but there's a lot of people thinking that he's going to be able to have not only a comeback attempt, but a successful one here. Yeah.

And I mean, Kip, they've won five in a row, the Capitals. They're nine and one in their last 10. They're in a playoff spot. They're third in the Metro. I think when we talked to me, they were all but dead and buried. It's, yeah, you're right and i i certainly i i've looked at them and pittsburgh and now they're rangers i think have a couple of games on pittsburgh you know but uh they're all within an arm's length of each other here 43 43 44 washington pit rangers you know so when you look

going into your islanders your islanders with a big win are right in the mix too that that that metro is wow what a race yeah it's going to be easily the most interesting so when you look at the standings you know as we head into 2023 here who do you think is due to either you know kind of climb up from where they started this season or fall down is there any teams who you think are like wildly out of place in the standings compared to what they you know actually can do well where's new jersey here because yeah three six and one in their last 10 kept and we said okay like i don't i don't see a major fall off here with the way they've played and just their speed and and then boom all of a sudden you know they get into a bit of a rut here and now they're in the thick of things here for, you know, how many teams?

One, two, three, six, right? Six teams that are in a battle here. Rangers, Pitt, Washington, Islanders. And like, you know, for this Devils team, their next three games, they got Boston, Pittsburgh, then Carolina. Like, they have a tough schedule over the next little stretch i think there's going to be a bit of a reality check about what this devil's team is you know they they were right there neck and neck with boston for a long time and we're

talking about president's trophy and all that but i think they're coming back into check for you know they're still a very good team to me i still think they're going to finish you know they'll be a playoff team and competitive, but certainly come back to earth after a lightning start. The biggest surprise for me, 35, 36 games in the regular season.

Yeah. Florida is done. Done. Done. Like not making playoffs? Not making the playoffs. Whoa, that's an early call. Yeah. Can't see it, my friend. Can't see it.

15, 16, and four. 34 points. They're in the mix with Montreal, Ottawa, and Buffalo. You wrote off Ottawa or Montreal two weeks ago. Yeah. And they're neck and neck with Florida. Yeah. So how can you think Florida

is still going to be in this thing? Well, because they're not going to get into the top three. I think that's safe to say. Boston, Toronto, and Tampa are legitimately good teams. Tampa has a seven-point advantage currently on Florida, not to mention they have three games in hand on them, so they're not catching Tampa.

So now you're looking at the wildcard spots. You've got the Rangers are the eighth team to get in, the second wildcard, and they're 10 points ahead of them. So it is. It's a massive club. Are you on board right now? They're missing the playoffs. Let's bury it is it's a it's a massive are you on board right now they're missing the playoffs let's bury them let's do it shovel the first scoop of dirt on the florida panthers january 28th maybe that's the first scoop i think so you know buffalo has 34 points but at

least they've got three games in hand on florida they're uh you know they're winning percentage much higher, positive goal differential. I'm not writing off Buffalo. You want to hear the second scoop on Florida? Scoop it. They give the Montreal Canadiens their lottery pick. Ooh.

Remember that one? Yes. Ben Sherratt. Oh, no. Not lottery protected. Wow. Like, I don't know. So, yeah.

So, if they were to randomly pull the Conor Bedard sweepstakes, it would go to the Montreal Canadiens. Correct. Oh, Leafs fans, that hurts to hear. But at least Florida being bad doesn't hurt to hear. A little consolation there. Oh, who wouldn't want to see Bedard in a Montreal Canadian

uniform? Everyone listening to this show. That's your answer. Oh, come on. Yeah. Be fantastic. It would make for a fun one. That's for sure. and uh we're done we have not turned the clock to 2023 and we're done edmonton calgary uh regular season games yeah that's a scheduling error if you ask me maybe that's why they want to go to 84 games so you get four matchups against every every possible rivalry out there in the division.

All right. On that note, we're going to thank Luke Fox for joining us. Brett Hull, we will track him down. He's been on the show before. We will find him for you all before it's all said and done. So we'll get Brett Hull on another day. JB, thanks for doing this, pal. Yeah, no problem. Just so you know, Morgan Rileyielly is expected to return tomorrow.

It's official. Wow. And the Leafs get stronger. All right, Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, thanks for watching and listening. Real Kipper and Bourne, back tomorrow. Stay safe, everyone.