Real Kyper & Bourne - League Check-In Before the Holidays with Brian Lawton

Episode Date: December 24, 2024

Nick Kypreos and Gord Stellick are joined by former NHLer and GM Brian Lawton to discuss the New York Rangers' roster, including which players might be considered untouchable. The group also debates whether the Rangers and Nashville Predators have signaled trouble in their respective markets. They cover Matt Rempe’s 8-game suspension following his hit on Miro Heiskanen and explore potential solutions to the reported friction between J.T. Miller and Elias Pettersson. The conversation shifts to Macklin Celebrini's impressive rookie season and Connor Bedard's performance in his sophomore year. To close out the show, Nick, Gord, and Sam McKee weigh in on the chemistry struggles in Vancouver. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

all right let's kick it in for the national hour on the real kipper and born show one last time before we take a few days off nick kiprio sammy mckee and in for justin bourne out of the bullpen tom hanky sidearm oh man remember that tandem tom hanky duane ward yeah gourd stalek stalectricity is in the house that's it i did it locally i'm gonna do it national welcome aboard pal thanks for doing this eh well i don't appreciate it fun as a reminder this hour real kipper and bourne brought to you by bet 365 in a few minutes we'll welcome in brian lotten former nhl player agent general manager has done it all so we're glad you're aboard wherever you're watching listening sports at 650 in vancouver sports at 960 in calgary or over our many platforms including our youtube channel gourd as well. So 13 games on tap today, two already in the books.

We talked at great length over the Toronto Maple Leafs and Winnipeg in our Leaf Hour edition. Also the New York Rangers and New Jersey. It continues to get uglier and uglier for the New York Rangers here. Somebody else cited this, but I love the Brian Burke one about the 18-wheeler getting off the road. And by the way, that was the same year Ron Wilson tried to stick it to the media

by making them work Christmas Day when he announced his contract extension. And they stuck it to him three months later because he was... What was the tweet? It was something like, I got a nice little stocking. Burke gave me a nice little Christmas present, whatever, and he did it on purpose. guys got called into work Christmas Day who had mutual disdain for each other. And then Brian Berkey used that line about I had to let him go

because the 18-wheeler just went off the road. Chris Kreider, a healthy scratch today. The 18-wheeler just, you know, I guess Vinny Trocek had some remarks. Like Kippy and Sammy, this is the president's trophy championship team last year that actually got out of the gate okay this year. They're not like Nashville. They never got going. And it is ugly.

They're not just losing. It's ugly. And every button that Chris Drury is pushing or whoever, it's just short-circuiting. It's just not happening. Their record at one point was 12-4-1. There you go. And they are now 16-17-1 after tonight.

Wow. That's unfathomable. So the last one that was a healthy scratch ended up getting traded. Jacob Truber. Cabo. No, Cabo. Yeah, Caco. Caco. Yeah. He Truber. Cabba. No, Cabbo. Yeah, Caco. Caco.

Yeah. He's in Seattle. Scored a goal the other night. Is this a foregone conclusion now that Chris Kreider is like the next guy out? I guess. I mean, if it follows suit about it. They started with Barkley Goodrow that they just decided they were going to make some moves. They wanted to change up their team, and then, I mean,

that was done in the summer. And, you know, again, business is business. So Chris Drury has a right to go about whatever he wants to do. I do know there was a really good column just talking about he made a lot of moves off ice when he took over. He kind of came in like a bolt of lightning, which is his prerogative, which is his right. Whether a very popular training staff, for example, and, you know, things, you know what those guys,

those people mean quite often to teams. So there are a lot of things and maybe some missteps that are catching up. I don't know. But I don't know. What are you going to get for Kreider? Like, you're talking about you won the President's Trophy, so you're thinking you're going to win the Stanley Cup

or you're a Stanley Cup contender. And what, you're doing a retool? So, I don't know. I'm baffled, Sammy, about what. I'm just glad I'm not sitting in that seat. All you can try to do is what Pittsburgh did a few weeks ago, start getting, although they didn't do it yesterday, but getting a win or two and putting them together.

Well, I mean, at the start of the year, would have said that chris crider has a lot of trade value right but coming into the season you would you would say that he's a valuable asset people would want on your team and all this first two months or three months of the season is done is just tank his value like what are you gonna like you said i mean he's a healthy scratch now you could feel like you're gonna be giving him away if you do trade him. Like, it just, it really feels that. Like, they put his name out there in the media. How long ago was that now that that Freed tweet came out?

They put that out there. It's got to be at least. About three weeks. Three weeks. Close to a month now. And that was another tactic. Yeah. Backfired.

Didn't work. Kind of making it public, you know? So, it's, I don't know. Well, Kippy, I mean... I don't mind Peter Laviolette. I think he's a good coach. I think he's had a good career. I also thought Gerard Gallant's a good coach too,

but he got accused of not being a strong X and O's guy or matching lines. And his strength is motivational for sure. But is coaching the issue of the Rangers the last little while here? Would you make a change for sake of making a change with a coach to try to salvage the season? Well, you're always saying you're trying to salvage the season who knows but to answer your question kippy yes and um i mean that's again not

an indictment on peter laviolette they get paid well now they get well compensated the guys want to stand they got he's a winner but it's your easy move you can make i was really surprised chicago made the change and it's actually been positive positive. And we love Luke Richardson, but whatever. Now, again, Brian Burke, the dead cat bounce, that it gets, you know, I asked him, he's never actually bounced a dead cat. But the six or seven games after a coaching change, you tend to get that. So we'll find out if that's only the case in Chicago.

But that's an easy one to do in New York. I have no idea if they're so inclined, but it's the one you can do that's the least complicated. It just doesn't seem at this point, like you're talking about a team that's supposed to challenge for a Stanley Cup, and it just seems like outside of Shusterkin, there's no untouchables at all. Let's bring in Brian Lawton,

who's been a great contributor to our show over the last few years, former player, agent, general manager. Thanks for joining us, Lotz. How are you, pal? Doing fantastic. Kipper, Gord, great to see you. Yeah, so everything's good. But not in Ranger land, who they got shellacked 5-0 to New Jersey.

Are there any untouchables? Of course, they just signed Shusterkin, so we know he's not going anywhere. But outside of that, like the names Kreider and Fox and Zibanejad and Panarin were locks as the faces and the pulse of the New York Rangers. But can we still say that today? I don't think so.

I mean, boy, there's a lot of people that would be interested in their players. I guess after Sir Sterk and I'd probably say Fox maybe is the only untouchable. Feels like everybody else because of age or circumstance. Kandre Miller has certainly been a good player for them in his young career, but nobody's really clicking this year for them. And you guys are chatting about what's the solution. I don't think it's Peter. Peter does a pretty good job.

Something's going on there. It hasn't been made public. Maybe Jacob Truba knows, but that one feels like a tinderbox right now well and and by the way good to chat with you brian i hope you've heard that and we'll talk later about san jose and vancouver but i i've given you credit you mentioned in the summer macklin celebrini was something special you're the first guy that said that he said actually i think he's a lot closer to conor bedard than people give credit for. So I'll give you props for that. I know we'll talk about that in a sec.

I want to know, okay, part is you've been a GM, you've been an agent, you've been a player. So in New York, in Nashville, say, might there be a mind saying, okay, the season is lost, kind of like Tampa Bay a few years ago, that they didn't make the playoffs, but they said, okay, we're going to be okay. Maybe like New Jersey last year,

they had to get some goaltenders and they got back on track. Do you think there might be a sense that they didn't make the playoffs, but they said, okay, we're going to be okay. Maybe like New Jersey last year, they had to get some goaltenders, and they got back on track. Do you think there might be a sense that they, at some point, will say that, not wave the white towel, but understand we take a step back, believing we can take a step forward? Or do you think in one or both cases, we're going to see a lot of surgery? I think we've already seen Nashville take their shot. Barry was pretty vocal about this season's not over and we're still going forward.

I would say that you two believe that about as much as I do, telling by the look on Kipper's face right now. In New York, you know, Nashville just, you know, it just didn't work what they did. To be fair, Stephen Stamkos and Jonathan Marcheseau are both playing better. But for the life of me, why they got rid of Ryan McDonough if you were going to be going for it makes no sense to me. You brought in Brady Shea, who's a friend of mine and a good player, but still on a different level than Ryan. So that one's been a little bit of yin and yang, and it just hasn't worked. I would say that would be very tough to salvage this year. There's always

time, but that feels like a really long, long shot. In New York's case, I don't think that's over. To be fair to Ottawa, they are playing better. I watched their game last night. They're a little bit out of gas against the Oilers but at least they've shown an uphill trajectory whereas the Rangers of course are regressing but I do think that the Rangers have the players to turn it around I don't think that's necessarily the case in in Nashville and I don't think Nashville's job of catching you know now, now you've got Dallas, Colorado, Calgary, I guess, is the last three in their Vancouver. I don't think they can beat the number of teams that have to there.

But the Rangers, I do. I do think that East is still vulnerable, certainly for that last spot. Before we move on, I got to ask you about the Matt Rampe eight-game suspension. Was this the league going see we can we can come up with a number larger than five was this was this a tough one for george paris or was this like a sammy uh gimme putt where he's like you know just tap it in uh i felt like that was pretty obvious you know kipper you know as as I do, you can break a guy's neck when you have him in that position and they're that far away from the boards. The fact that it was Miro Haskin and absolutely heightened the awareness of everybody. people that did the job that you did employed more readily, Kipper, then what happens is the

players end up looking to the league to take care of these types of matters. And I would say in a lot of cases, you know, it probably hasn't happened to the expectation that the players do, but this is one where I think the league rightly stepped up and just said, look, we'll make it known. Because it's kind of like there's a new sheriff in town. It used to be you could just blast that guy and it was his fault. Why is he standing in that position? He shouldn't be. But those days are over.

Now the league is clearly saying to players that if you get a player in that position and you have time, you must let up. That is what we're looking for. We do not want you to drill that guy in the back. And I don't have a problem with that. It's fine. We just got to get that consistency where everybody feels good about it and gets taken care of. I know there's times when people feel that it's not always level and that can drive can drive i know a lot of the players uh

batty but i i think it was the right suspension i think it's the right number and i hope they continue on with that philosophy and make it crystal clear so you mentioned the east playoff race and the rangers slip sliding away have made it interesting same thing out west you lose a little slippage and you're in trouble and it seems seems like the Vancouver Canucks chose this weekend to kind of say, okay, where there's smoke, there's fire. There's a situation going on. And I think Rick Talkett, basically, they're saying, imagine how sick and tired the players must have been about answering it.

The questions about what's the friction between Miller and Pettersson? What's the deal going on? I mean, the only one I remember comparable was Eric Carlson and Mike Hoffman in Ottawa. And there were some allegations there, and one had to leave town, and then the other eventually left town as well. I have no idea what's going on here. It's just unusual because they're in every team.

It's obviously affecting their play on the ice. Is this Rick talk? And even Hughes calculated away saying, you guys got to fix it. Otherwise, what was the unthinkable is going to happen. One of you is going to have to go. You guys have to think it. You have to what was the unthinkable is going to happen one of you is going to have to go you guys have to think it you have to face the music they don't have to comment anymore but you better fix it because everyone knows about it yeah and it's just speculation kipper and i have both been around teams where you know there's been friction and it couldn't be anywhere from players playing cards and not liking the outcome to

you know more society type issues where you know there's other factors other people involved we've seen the gamut i don't want to speculate on any of that because i don't know the answer but i don't mind the answer in terms of what rick talk is saying. Whatever the issue is, you always hope the players can work it out. In some cases, it's salvageable. In other cases, it isn't. The Mike Hoffman one, you know, that went on for a while. Ottawa, of course, with Carlson, right? Yeah.

Yeah, that went on for a while. And, of course, there was a change eventually. So I hope that the players can figure it out, whatever it is. I hope that it stays in-house. I don't think the public or the fan base necessarily needs to know it. Okay, but at the same time, if things, if they don't go on a winning streak or they don't look like they're enjoying each other's company.

You know, that media is not going to take their foot off the gas pedal here. Lots. So what is the answer? Is it just hope that you, you start winning again, because is there anything Gord? I mean,

you've run teams as general managers, you as, as well. Is there anything from a PR point of view that can get over this sooner than later like jt miller made a comment the other day saying what do i got to do come out here together with pd um next time and i'm like my first thought was yeah not a bad idea actually if you guys actually came out together put your arms around each other and say hey listen we don't agree on a lot of things but we still care about each other and we need each

other to win. And we're in this together. That might help. That definitely would help. But it's a unique dynamic, Kipper. It's like a family. When you have an issue in your family, it can get ugly. We've all seen that in some capacity.

It's really. But nobody's paying 400 bucks to go see your ugly family at Christmas and Thanksgiving. No, you got to be professional at the end of the day. Personally, for me, maybe I'm like Gord or different than Gord. I would want to kind of jump in there and figure out what's going on here, fellas, because you are paid a lot of money to perform and there's a certain level. And if this is going to impede that from happening, then it's going to turn into the general manager's jurisdiction to come in and make a decision, maybe a tough decision, but definitely a decision that, you know, nobody wants to be involved in.

But there's a lot of general managers in this league that wouldn't hesitate to make a call and we all know how that can go it could go where um the right answer is created or the wrong answer depending on who's the better player yeah and you know we talk about i know bruce springsteen when he was getting the east street band was getting inducted in the rock and roll hall of fame said we loved each other there are times we weren't very good to each other. Like every group, successful group has had that, but they've gone on and performed. And that's what the worry is here.

And to your point, Brian, I'm not going to speculate or guess. I've been in situations where there's been domestic issues that went on that were not good, whatever. And I'm not saying this is any way, shape, or form. So I want to see what they can do on the ice, leave it at that. But the other one, what was it you said in the summer that you said you saw in Macklin Celebrini that don't give him short shrift like we appear to be doing

compared to Conor Bedard? And what have you especially liked now in his coming out season? Yeah, of course, we're all trying to analyze these kids and there are certain things that stick with you some of the things that stuck with me with Macklin or his ability to get the job done and not necessarily do it with blazing speed or with fantastic plays or things that stand out and shine a little bit like Sid was I felt like he had a little bit of that, and yet I wasn't willing in my mind to think that he's like Sidney Crosby. I kind of rationalized it, that he's doing things like Tyler Toffoli was when the LA Kings were winning and he didn't get credit for,

which just means a lot of little plays away from the puck, a lot of little plays and scrums that go unnoticed, kind of like Sam Reinhardt is the more modern version of Tyler. Well, I looked at Macklin, you know, and all the tape I looked at, and he was doing a lot of those things. And yes, he's getting a ton of credit because he was rated first. Everybody felt like he would be first, but he wasn't getting credit to take that beyond to the next level. And I just thought there was a little more there I thought people were selling him short I thought maybe we had you know a little bit of hangover from some of the great players we've had in the last you know really five to ten years

whether you go McDavid or Matthews or certainly Bedard more fresh on our mind there's a lot to like about him and I've seen it in pro exactly the same way. You know, he was a little bit injured, had a little bit of a slow start, but now that he's healthy and you see what he can do, it doesn't necessarily blow you over, but the results are mind-blowing in my opinion. I don't want to take anything away from the kid, but does it help that, compared to the the spotlight and the pressure

on connor baddard to be a generational player right out of the get-go uh have something to do with it that he kind of just slid under the radar a little bit here and i watch connor today and since the coaching change has he been better is Is it maybe lifted some pressure off of him? And I don't know how or why, but maybe it has. But it hasn't gone very well for Conor Bedard. No, it hasn't. And there's definitely a pressure there that in a perfect world, you wouldn't have for a player that's under 20 years old, certainly Kipper.

But that's just the reality of it. I dealt with that, you know, myself, obviously, as a first pick. And it's not a lot of fun. You know, it really, really wrecks havoc with your confidence. Connor, at one point, you know, was talking about he can't find his game. Boy, I would want to do everything I could to protect a young player from having to come out and say that. Because he shouldn't be able to find his game.

He's playing with the best players in the world. Yeah, he played great last year, but circumstances change and things happen. Chicago made a lot of moves. They spent a lot of money over the summer. Everybody was expecting a little bit more, and it was just lot of moves. They spent a lot of money over the summer. Everybody was expecting a little bit more and it was just kind of a, eh. Now they changed the coach and I think they've got seven victories

in their last 20 games, which is a better pace than they had. But is it that much better? I'm not so sure. I just think at the end of the day, whatever you can do, and I thought the New Jersey Devils did a pretty good job of this with Jack Hughes, because if you look at Jack Hughes,

you know, Jack was light, was a smallish player when he started, and it took him a while to be able to really dominate. And he's been off and running since he got his feet wet. But that first year and a quarter was slow. There's nothing wrong with that. Jack Hughes is going to potentially be a Hall of Fame player, go on and have a great career. You know, when you force that pressure on a young player, it just doesn't do any good, in my opinion.

You speak of doing whatever you can to protect Bedard in Chicago. Does that include the easy solution of, of overspending on a free agent, i.e. Or a ranting in, or dare I say this in front of Sammy, a Mitch Marner. Do you hear him? Yeah. Yeah.

I can hear a lot of people groaning. My thing I'll tell you about Mitch, the more I watch him, the more convinced I am that he is every bit as advertised. I know he hasn't done it at the playoffs. I know it's frustrating for people in Toronto at times, but his game is elite. It really is. He does so many things so well that I've developed a new appreciation for his game.

I'll be honest with you. Miko Rantanen, that's an interesting one. Do I see him leaving Colorado? Maybe. Been pretty quiet on that front for a guy that's going to be UFA also. Having the type of seasons he's had. A lot of conversations I have with coaches. Everybody is, of course, thrilled with the way Nathan plays McKinnon.

But boy, I can't tell you how many coaches. Hey,, of course, thrilled with the way Nathan plays McKinnon. But boy, I can't tell you how many coaches. Hey, you know that other guy, Rantanen? He drives the bus there as much as anybody else. So he's a guy that would be heavily, heavily sought after. Would I see a player that's already tasted the Stanley Cup want to take a shot with a team that doesn't look like they're very close right now. I don't see that happening from a kid like Rantanen. I think those guys, if they're going to move when they're in that type of a situation, they're going to look for somebody

that's a contender right now. So the Atlantic Division, the traditional three teams that were knocking on the door to get in the playoffs you mentioned earlier ottawa seems to have found their way buffalo quite the opposite the red wings lose back-to-back games to the montreal canadians montreal now as one point ahead of the red wings even number of games played and steve eiserman sort of been given slack as he should be taking a more measured approach they didn't do a lot in each your reactions like say they did in buffalo what do they have there like i mean like as a like do

they have to rebuild again do they have to go get that free agent we just talked about i mean what is it with the red wings maybe not spinning their tires anymore maybe going a bit in reverse that one is really an enigma to me i've got got nothing but love for Stevie. He's such a hardworking GM. He's an honest, straightforward guy in everything he does. I actually, when I look at things, I see so many I'd imagine he's incredibly disappointed with where the club is at. But I think he's done a really good job. I mean, coming up with Mo Sider, Lucas Raymond has developed. He got Larkin signed long term. He's had a number of goalies in there that have played well. It's an enigma to me, I'll be honest with you.

And I think about that one once in a while. But boy, I wouldn't pin any of that. You know, Stevie's ultimately responsible. He knows that. But it's easier when you can see blatant mistakes they've made. And I can't pick out a host of them. It just hasn't gone the way that i thought it would the way that i think it should for that group that's kind of a nice way of saying you probably end up looking

at the coach next you know just um but i'm not i'm not suggesting that yeah i'm just saying that that one is a pure and i obviously i'm like all the other folks out there i'm'm looking at this stuff very closely, trying to figure it out. And I do not have an answer. First time I've ever done an interview. Gord can attest to this where I don't think I have an answer. Just when it comes to Detroit, lots when it comes to Detroit for me, the first thing I think of is who's in that, right? And Billy Huso was a guy in St louis that i think steve handpicked as a guy

that could i could build my my young guys around and that hasn't worked out well where are you overall with with goaltending in today's game because it just seems like it it was you know vasilevsky and shisterkin and today we saw saw Connor Hellebuck again be as solid as always for Winnipeg beating the Toronto Maple Leafs. And just the importance. We saw the Leafs get off to the best start in probably 20, 25 years with goaltenders in their net. Now Stolarz is gone.

And maybe Joseph Wall's looking a little tired the last couple of games. I don't know, but like just teams that need to be solid between the pipes is still maybe some of some teams like Detroit's biggest challenge. Yeah, there's no doubt about that. Where I sit on the goalies is very clear. I can't really come up with more than three or four guys that are head and shoulders above the rest. The other seems so random from year to year. You have guys that have great years and then they have terrible years, but you don't have really more than three or four guys

who have consistently been in that group. I was kind of thinking maybe UC Sorrows could eventually be in that group like i would have you know i was kind of thinking maybe uc sorrows could eventually be in that group they changed their d around they changed their t team a little bit around and no not even close so it's one of the biggest questions i think the people that are smart that are managing teams have come to expect that you're going to have some variance in that position that you don't necessarily need shisterkin or vasileski to get it done but you must develop a blue line that can control the game that can help to protect your goalies and help to drive your forwards forward more so than just having a great goalie

that's going to save your bacon every night it just doesn't work the way is the way the league is constructed now and it can be random and it can be even short term in a season but um it was great that tampa had the great run that they did with vasileski vasileski but you know look at the other guys that have been cup winners in the last number of years. You can go back to like 2018 and outside of Vasileski, I won't give it to Bobrowski last year because there's been a lot of inter...

Let me think of what the right word is. Below his standard of last year's play throughout the regular season so very i'd say it's probably the number one thing that's driving gms uh a little bit nutty these days is you know what's happened to the goaltending where we can't get these solid and consistent efforts every night. And I just think the league has changed, and we literally have no more than three or four guys that can lay claim to being that guy.

Well, you mentioned some names, and there'll be international play and the excitement about the Olympics in 2026. I'm curious, the Four Nations face-off, Brian, what kind of buzz is it or isn't it getting south of the border? More than the NBA play-in games, if that's what you're asking me, Gord. I don't even know what that is. Is that when they have, like, purple basketball cords? No, that's a different one.

That's the in-season tournament. Yeah, it has to do with a vacation in Vegas in the middle of the winter. And you get paid extra money if you go on it. No, I don't know. That to me, I like basketball personally. I actually went to the Timberwolves. I went to a Lakers game. And I went to another game a few days later

and it was the Lakers again. And I was like, how did I miss the Lakers were coming here? Well, that was a casualty of them not making it to the final play in tournament, which happened to be on the day when they had the match between Rory and Scheffler. And I must have asked a hundred people who watched the basketball game and I couldn't find one. I don't know if that's working. Is the Four Nations getting more attention than that down here? Yes, it is.

I think the NHL has actually done a good job of promoting the players that are going to be in it. You know, and it's particularly good timing for the United States because they have, I think, unquestionably the best team they've ever fielded. And I've had this discussion before with people, and yet I don't feel that they're a lock to even win that or to win the World Cup or, you know, any of these other international events. But when you add it all together, the U.S. is in a pretty good position right now. They've got good goaltending. They've got legitimate elite D, and they've got legitimate centers.

So that's a change, and I think that's given it a little bit of a pop. I played in the Canada Cup a couple of times. It's a great event. It's one of my favorite things I ever did. I think the players are going to love it, the fact that Canada Cups were always in August and September. And generally you would traverse Canada from Halifax to Edmonton, Calgary at the very least. And now the fact that it's going to be during the regular season, I think you're going to have a lot more eyeballs on it.

It's going to play well. One more before we let you go. Just to follow up on our four nations. As we know, two of the faces that are really leading the charge in Canada and the U.S. is Connor McDavid and Austin Matthews. Austin Matthews is out right now

with an officially undisclosed ailment as the tournament gets closer. How much pressure is on Austin Matthews to still kind of participate and show up without risking, you know, what lies ahead for him the rest of the season and the playoffs in your mind? I think there's quite a bit of responsibility there.

I think he'll take it that way. Ultimately, I believe he's going to do what will serve the Toronto Maple Leafs best. But I do think there's a lot of pressure. It would be different if this were the summer. I would say it's like it used to be these tournaments. I would say it would be much lighter. But, you know, this is something that the league and the players have jointly pushed for. And I think there's a lot of pressure on all the players. It's disappointing to me that we won't see, you know, I think of all the best forwards in the league and certainly McKinnon,

McDavid, Eichel, Matthews, who's missing, the Russian players, and then of course, Dreisaitl. And you got to find a way to get a guy like Dreisaitl in that, because I'd love to see him imposing Connor McDavid I think that would be really fun to watch the way he plays Dreisaitl to me has really been spectacular this year he's really stepped up for that team and has carried him a lot of nights Connor's playing great it's incredible that one team essentially has two guys like that but if you look at the scoring

you got mckinnon and ranting and are really going off and then you got mcdavid and dry sidle who are just like double the number of points of anybody else on their team except for a stud defenseman on each of those teams and mccarran bouchard well much like leon you've carried us on a number of occasions on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show lots. Really appreciate your time, man. Thanks for doing this. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. All the best to you and yours.

And we'll catch up with you in the new year. Are you allowed to say it that way? I don't know. I just did. When Gord is there? I mean, I would have thought Gord insisted that you had to change it for one day. Always great catching up with you, Brian. And we'll see Celebrini tonight.

You were the first. You were the first in the summer, but all the best to you and your family. He's a hell of a player. Thanks for having me on, guys. I enjoy it. Brian Lawton, former general manager, agent, first overall pick. Broadcaster. Broadcaster.

Does it all. I love Celebrini. Watching Celebrini has been one of my favorite things to do. I like it more it all. I love Celebrini. Watching Celebrini. It's been one of my favorite things to do. I like it more when he's on the East Coast. So his game doesn't start at 1030. You know, it's the most classic East Coast guy thing to say. But he has a little something.

I don't know. It's definitely special. Definitely special. The other thing, Kippy, when he worked for Sportsnet for a bit, you know, we crossed over. I worked for a bit. And he mentioned mentioned speaking of the leafs just about that they had a big they had a big discussion about victor headman or

oliver eckman larson at number two overall like they had a real big the scouting faction and and oel went fifth i think to fix yeah yeah and he just said yeah it was not a slam dunk about about victor headman so anyway props to oel being able to, after the Vancouver experience and that, go to Florida and get his career back on the right level, a better level than most people were expecting. Yep. Game time? Game time.

It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app, play this to odds, and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. It's for 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Got a DM the other day uh from a guy saying you still

you've been doing that for two years and you still have to read it every day i'm like yeah it's like you know what you know an anonymous guy who dm me meanly on twitter you're right you're right you got me see it's just not me no no listen it's not just you you probably talked to my wife about it, too. All right, good one tonight in Florida. Repeat of last night's game between the Tampa Bay Lightning and Florida Panthers, which I thought was live today on one of the TVs we were watching. I should have had him. You informed me that it was not live.

I could have won a lot of money today. Florida Panthers, big favorites tonight in the second game. Minus 160,a bay lightning plus 135 on the money line another good one tonight washington capitals in boston to take on the bruins the washington capitals are underdogs in that game plus 115 uh pretty good value to me on one of the best teams in the league and later on like you said the san jose sharks are in vancouver to take on the drama-filled Vancouver Canucks. Boy, oh boy, that is just the perfect team

for that market right now. It's a little spicy out there. Oh, boy. Is it ever. Holy smokes. But the San Jose Sharks are plus 210 on the money line there. Vancouver Canucks minus 260. Maybe a little bit of value on my Macklin Celebrini Sharks

because, you know, you don't know which way it's going to go with those Canucks. And that was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the app to find out why it's ever ordinary at Bet365. Plus, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Okay, we'll take a quick break. And when we return, we'll get into a few things,

including Gord, as we enter the Christmas break here in the National Hockey League. Who's your team to beat right now? I want to know that. Also, in light of what's going on in Vancouver, is there anything you remember when you were with the Leafs in terms of in dressing room, you know, disagreements and how you handled it or how it played out in a big market like Toronto.

Maybe we can certainly relate that to the Vancouver Canucks. So still plenty more to chew on with the one, the only Gord Stelic when we return to Real Kipper and Born brought to you by Bet365, Nick Kiprios, Sammy McKee, Gord Stelic. I got to tell you, sometimes I'm out here with JB and Sammy, and two hours can feel like two days. But with you, it just flies by the gourd I appreciate that and I'm sure it flies with uh JB and Sammy but yeah yeah JB's listening today I don't mind

you know my modesty bringing some magic every now and then you know it's easy being the supply teacher right that's like a good supply teacher you get to come in and you know you're once a month and the students like you and you know so that's what I get to do. Awesome stuff. We were talking earlier about the Vancouver situation. I want to kind of dive into it a little bit more. JT Miller tried to kind of pour water on it coming out the other day. I'm not sure if it worked or not,

but this is what he had to say to the public to try to convince everybody that they're making too big of a deal. Let's have a listen. In a sense, the outer world have created this thing. Like, this isn't a thing. So, am I bothered? No, but you guys are just wasting your time. How tired are you about hearing of it? I don't care. You guys want to talk about it? You want to ask me? Ask me all you want.

I can bring up Petey and we can do the interview together if that would make you guys happy. So, Gord. I don't care. I don't care about this at all. You were, I believe, a general manager at the time with the Toronto Maple Leafs. And correct me if I'm wrong, because this is a while ago,

but, you know, there's always been issues with every hockey club, but some make it more public than the others. Was there not a situation with the late John Kordick and one of your goalies, Alan Bester? Yeah, he beat the crap out of Alan Bester. That's a thing. So the story went that there was a meal or something and Alan Bester was wearing glasses. And then a split second, the glasses looked like this.

Yeah. We called Alan Ernie Douglas. He looked like Ernie Douglas from My Three Sons. And yeah. And after that, he looked like Buster Douglas. Take it a few punches. So. And we hope you're okay, Alan.

Yeah. Actually, Alan's done great. Alan was just a great guy but he was a chirpy guy chirpy guy so yes yes that okay and how how public did it get out there do people come in and talk to you guys and say we want to hear the story and were you able to kind of put it to rest like how how was was it handled? It was handled. It just kept quiet internally and obviously figured situations out, you know, about, I mean,

unfortunately, it was the unraveling of John Kordick in that particular case, and that was part of it, right, about the guy that we acquired from Montreal. You know what? I've got to tell you, when Hall of Fame weekend, when Cam Neely was getting inducted, so I used to coordinate, you know, be i gotta tell you when hall of fame weekend when cam neely was

getting inducted so i used to coordinate you know be involved in those the fan forums and behind the scenes before we did the fan forum and uh we talked we talked about him he talked about playing with john cordick in portland you know just their junior career and what a good good player well anyway just a lot of things that about some of the baggage So we had that. We also, on the other side, and this is where I'm not going to dabble about what's going on in Vancouver, domestic things become very well known when there's too many people involved in a domestic thing, okay, you know, inside the dressing room.

And that becomes very personal. And we had one of those as well. You know, obviously, we had another one about uh just a a veteran goaltender coming in wasn't popular and you know and it wasn't well like so i mean there's all kinds of it runs a gamut of all different types of things i'm not condoning lying okay yeah but i also believe sometimes that you can fake it until you make it, which means is it so bad just to deny and just fake that everything's fine until it is fine?

Is that a strategy? Did that work back then? Is it no longer an option now? So a big difference is the play on the ice of both these players whether it's coincidental somehow i doubt it has has has gone out appreciably like both jt miller and elias pedersen were in the other cases i mean we weren't a very good team then so i don't think like all of a sudden now investors goals against average went up by one or John Korda took whatever. You know what I mean?

So I mean, so that that's a whole other dimension in Vancouver. So obviously, like Rick talk, it didn't just fly off the handle. They know whatever's going on. So JT Miller can say it's not a thing. There is some kind of thing. I don't know what the thing is, but there's some kind of thing. And you know what? It's affecting our play on the ice of late and you guys better figure it out

or like the best comparable is the Mike Hoffman, Eric Carlson, which was a very good Ottawa Senator team. You know, when that happened, they've been one overtime goal away from making it to the Stanley Cup final and someone had to leave. And so you made the point

that maybe JT Miller should come out with a PD and they should just talk and now if I'm that I wouldn't answer a single question anymore but you better do some talking on the ice because obviously your coach is concerned and the organization is concerned because that's where it's impacting which would have been different in our particular case from from back then the other thing too which other situations don have, was the disappearance of JT Miller just prior. And whether or not that had anything to do with this. Are they linked? Are they not linked?

Are they separate incidents? And nobody knows. But how does the media not question it, right? Well, and again, stuff that's personal should be personal. And the players are entitled to that. Understood. But like you said to Brian, or Brian Lawton said, or whatever, people are paying $400 a ticket to go to an event,

and it's not like, and again, I used up the greatest groups of all time. They had bitter, bitter splits, all of them. But they went on generally and put on a great show. And then things came full circle because, you know, here you don't get the beauty of decades later. It's more you're in your 20-something or early 30-something. You're still pretty young. Generally, emotionally, a little more volatile back then.

At those ages, a little bit more extreme, whatever. So that's the one answer. Like, imagine how tired the other – they said, are you tired being asked the question? What about the other 21 players? it more extreme whatever so that that's the one answer like the Canucks basically like imagine how tired the other they said are you tired being asked the question what about the other 21 players because we've heard this this this smoke has been there for months and we wouldn't talk about it on air but we hear stories and we've heard other outlandish rumors before elsewhere that prove not to be true but and that's you know like good when they get nipped in the butt if they get going or you or you figure out they play out and they're not true so in this case Vancouver's

in danger of falling out of the playoffs okay they need all hands on deck and they need motivated focused teams on the ice including two of their best players I'm just like I'm looking at it through Pedersen's game logs here right and in the in the seven games prior to jt miller returning he had 12 points okay since zero he came back he came back against florida right that was the game he came back against that was one two three four five six he's got zero points and he's minus two minus one minus one minus one he's not he's just he's not himself so minus one, minus one, minus one. Yeah, he's not. He's just not himself. So, yeah.

I mean. Hasn't been great at all. I don't know how you can look at that and not be like, what? It's affecting the, this guy's making $11.5 million, right? Same Willie contract. Is that correct? Pretty close. Maybe a little less.

A tad more. A tad more, a tad less. Anyways. It's really, and he's supposed to be one of your best players you're trying to make the playoffs like you're saying it's a huge effect on this team well that's why elliot uh freeman talked about he said no there's no first-hand discussions but the concept of possibly making that trade to buffalo just understanding if and then when you know a week later it does come out that there is a thing in vancouver whatever and i'm not saying you know you're later, it does come out that there is a thing in Vancouver, whatever. And I'm not saying you want to trade the guy, but at some point, one of them will have to go

if this thing or non-thing continues to impact the team's performance on the ice. So this is basically the chance for them to prove it doesn't. The coach has said, you know, we're just kind of tired of it. You guys got to figure it out and let's figure it out uh as a team you you two guys and everybody else on the ice problem what do you think but as a season ticket holder like if if if i knew that there was issues and it's again i get it it's none of your business i i get that part but as a season ticket holder if if there's a problem with one of them and you're not telling me who the real problem is but you're going to trade one of them

like it feels like like i don't know i mean it's well it's i i'd like it to be my business because i gotta decide whether or not i want to keep buying tickets you know exactly and if you're making a decision on which one of these it's hard not to include them in some capacity here. They are a paying customer. Well, they're being included now. They're being included now that they're being told. How are they being? Well, the coach is saying.

We have an issue and they need to figure it out. Is that enough? Well, it's a start. We'll find out. We'll find out if it's enough. That's a point. It's a start. And the next move.

There's a lot of broadcast tools. And we could have fun with that they don't get along right then fans would be surprised but they're able to it's easier for them to deliver the game broadcasting because we're not actually playing the game but there's there's some beauties that you think oh man are you looking at me like that along with course you go, oh, no. No, no, no. They couldn't stand each other. But if you're looking at this, and one of them has to go, if it gets to that point. Like who? Oh, it's obviously you have to trade JT Miller.

I think JT Miller's better. Right now, if I'm a contending team, I think I'd rather have JT Miller. But the age factor, and you have him under contract for longer, and the way he plays when JT Miller's not there, like, I would like, if I'm the Leafs, I'd love to have JT Miller on the team, like, no question. But I don't think, like, if you

trade Pedersen somewhere, that's good. I don't know. It's hard. They're both really good. But I'm going Miller. But I think it's odd, like, Jim Rutherford and Patrick Alveen and Rick Talkett, no. Whatever it is. So, whatever it is, I think it's more obvious that one Rutherford and Patrick Alvin and Rick Tockett, no. Whatever it is. They know.

So whatever it is, I think it's more obvious that one player would want to get out than the other. Whatever. And I'm making a stretch here. Because the ideal thing is they stay and you got Hughes and you got Thatcher Demko. Great roster. Yeah. All's good. You know, that would be the hope.

But like really, Kip, this is kind of unheard of. Because you know that people don't like each other. People don't like each other here. You know, whatever. I think in the last few days they've just poured gasoline on the fire. Absolutely. No, I think they found a way to come to a resolution. I think they figured out the fire is not going out, and the fire is burning on the ice now.

And you mentioned those stats individually. And all of a sudden we seem set in the playoffs, and now that's not us. So they're just kind of saying, this is the way that we got to bring it to a head. And quite often, things don't get better until you hit ground zero. And, you know, things get brought to a head,

and you find out, is it insurmountable, or was that the first day of the rest of our lives, and we tried to figure out a solution? They're hanging on for dear life here in the playoff picture absolutely like you said like it's it's not a foregone conclusion anymore and you would have said they were at the start of the year so a lot going on in vancouver a lot going on the ottawa senators been on a heck of a run and then and then just all mark back. Not there. That's right.

Started the second period. Yeah. That's what Travis Green said. Wow, did he hit a high level too? Like that was the look the last two weeks of a bonafide $8 million goalie. Yeah. Yeah, and best goalie in the last three weeks in the NHL.

And it's funny that Travis Green volunteered a little bit more and said upper body. Then he said back spasms, which, you know, I don't know, was that like Gord getting out of bed and taking Robaxus it? And, you know, whatever. I imagine it's probably a

higher level. I would pay big bucks to see you get out of bed. You know, I was sore from five-pin bowling last week. My brother had a Festivus party, five-pin bowling. And whatever, I'm embarrassed to say.

Hey, great job today. Thank you so much. All right. Thanks to you, Sammy. And everybody have a safe holiday break here. And we'll be back Friday, I believe, Sammy. No, next Monday. Oh, next Monday.

Okay, there you go. Don't come in Friday.