Real Kyper & Bourne - League Trends with Brian Burke

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne welcome former NHL executive Brian Burke into the studio to share his impressions of the 4 Nations Face-Off, the role of fighting in today's NHL, potential league expansion, and why the decentralized draft is a mistake. Then, the three discuss Canadian teams with Stanley Cup hopes, the significance of deadline additions, the NHL's tax advantage problem and much more. Later, Nick, Justin and Sam McKee get into Devils coach Sheldon Keefe calling out Johnathan Kovacevic, Lane Hutson's rise in Montreal and pressure on future top pick Gavin McKenna.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, taking it up a notch or two or four. We welcome in Brian Burke in studio former NHL executive. You see he's got Canucks, ducks, Leafs, Flames, Penguins. He doesn't have our Hartford Whalers. Oh, yeah. Sammy. My first theme, my first trade. I will, I'll give you a mulligan on that one, Sammy.

No problem. How are you, pal? Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me on, Nicky. How are things, all right? Everything's good. See you every once in a while. Pup up on my phone.

Still doing a few shows here and there. Glad we got you finally. But you've been fairly busy, I think, around the circuit a little bit and still consulting, I think, for women's hockey as well. Yeah, still at the PWHLPA. But winding down.

I told them when I took the job, I'd do two years and a woman had to take over. And that's what's happened. So I'm on the back nine to do HLPA, but winding down. I told him when I took the job, I'd do two years, and a woman had to take over, and that's what's happened. So I'm on the back nine, or probably putting on 17, probably. And near the end, still helping out. Love the product, love the women. And still working hard with Hockey Hall of Fame as well?

Yep, still on the selection committee. And still managing to watch a ton of games and having probably an opinion just as passionate as you had like 30-40 years ago because we're coming off this Four Nations tournament, Berkey, where many of us weren't sure what we were going to get. Did you have any doubt at all that the guys would come out of it with so much, I don't know, venom, piss and vinegar, call it whatever you want? No, I don't think anyone who said they saw that coming as being truthful. But I certainly laughed and I said on the radio, people said, you think it'll be like

a glorified All-Star game. You don't know what it's like. You put your sweater on, put that logo on, you're going to play hard. I didn't think they'd play this hard. It was fantastic. And how has it been for you, you know, with the cross-border relations here? Now are you, you're American. I'm a dual. You're a dual. Okay, that's good. So you've kind of been on both sides of this fence watching. Yeah, when the US is playing Canada, I'm cheering for the US. You are.

I cheer for Canada every other day of the month, every other day of the year, but not when USA Canada. I'm USA. Well, you've been involved with the USA program quite a bit. I did 12 teams for Team USA. Yeah. Two Olympic teams. Then you're excused.

We'll give you a pass on that. What bothers me is when Canadians are playing Americans, they're going to cheer for Canadians. I get it. Canadian fans. But when we, when Americans are playing anyone else, we're cheering for... Canada's playing the Russians, we're cheering for the Russians. The Canadians are cheering, Canada plays U.S. or Russia plays U.S. The Canadians are cheering for Russians. I don't get that.

Yeah. It's the new rivalry. Canada versus the US. It's not going to get better either right now. No, it doesn't look like it is. It isn't. And when you factor in all of the political landscape, and then we saw the three fights in nine seconds. Is that what it was, I can't, three and nine. And now we, now it's, you know what I find really funny right now is like last night,

there was an episode between Kemper and Swainman. And now we're reporting on almost fights. They're actually like leading like the news a little bit on these two goalies almost fighting. It's almost as if like there's this new discovery of fighting again. And like there's no talk about is it needed in the game anymore

or concussions or anything. It's like, wow, we almost had two goalies fighting last night. Too bad. You know, bad referees, bad referees, bad officials. I was screaming at the officials too. Yeah, get out of the way. Get out of the way. So, is it come back a little bit based on those three fights?

Not a little bit. I think it's come back a little bit based on those? Not a little bit. I think it's come back nicely. I think it's been the last year or so when Florida played like they played and Sam Bennett and Chuck, they started a lot of stuff. I think fighting is coming back in. Toughest guy in the game right now is Olivier in my view. That's become fashionable again, which I don't mind because I've been a proponent of getting more fighting back in the game. I don't want to go back to the old days. Everyone says oh, you're a dinosaur No, I don't want like when I played the American we had three-hour games had nine

Nine fights remember we emptied the bench one night in Halifax. We had four skaters the left at the end of the game It's crazy. I don't want to go back to that, but where we've gone is too sanitized for me. You think the league is going to start promoting it a little bit more? I hope so. Well, there was a minute there. Make a comeback. There was a minute there where it felt like, oh, it's all speed and skill and that's the way the new game is going to be. But it's almost like people realize you can't play

a physical contact sport and act like intimidation is not real. Well you can but it's a joke and it leads to all the other violence that we don't want. High sticks and cheap shots and slew foots. When you have to fight, when you take a cheap shot at someone you might have to answer the bell. It puts a great qualifier in the game in the way it's played. So to me the one thing I don't like, well I I don't hate, but I don't like is a clean hit fights. What's come back is when you played Nicky, the only two guys that had that protection were star player and a goalie.

Goalie got hit, you're fighting. Star player got hit. Now it's every player gets a clean hit. Someone goes after. I don't like that. We got to find that balance somewhere. As far as what it did to the game, what it did to build up the popularity either in the US or added in Canada, there's no question there seems to be a wave going on in the National Hockey League that's leading to a salary cap that's moving up tremendously which is leading up

Berkey of the talk of maybe going to 34 teams 36 teams Say what you will about There's enough players out there the town whatever Berkey we're talking about him a Billion and a half dollars, two billion dollars. Who's turning that down? No one.

But that doesn't make it right. Yeah, the fact that they'll take the money, they're going to take the money. Players want to take the money, owners want to take the money. They want to create the jobs that players do, the owners want to take the money. So it's going to happen. That doesn't mean it's right. I think it's a big mistake, huge mistake to increase the number of teams in the playoffs or the number of regular season games.

Both really dumb ideas. And I agree with the league on most everything. I'm a big Betman fan. Everyone knows that. We've been friends for 35 years. But that doesn't make this a sensible step or a meaningful step or the right step. Should be no, we grew up with 32.

You have a parade now every 32 years. Let's not make that 40. So what is the balance there between, everyone tells all of us that Betman's job is to work on behalf of the owners, right? That's, they're his bosses, I think is the common way to phrase it. But what part of the role is being a steward of the owners, right? That's his, they're his bosses, I think, is the common way to phrase it. But what part of the role is being a steward of the game?

Because I think of the level of play, and I don't think there's four more teams worth of guys in the American league that can scape aside, you know, take your pick, McDavid, McKinnon, whoever. Well, I'll give you, I'll give you, tell you an anecdote about Gary Bettman that will show you how pure he is

when it comes to the focus of the game. He called me in my first year and he said, look, I'm getting pressure to expand. You gotta assure me, you and Dave Nolan's gotta sit down and show me there's enough player pool to add two more teams or four more teams. So his intentions were pure. I think they still are. I think the average person would say, two more teams is not more teams. So those intentions were pure. I think they still are.

I think the average person would say two more teams is not a problem. You look at the growth of college hockey, junior hockey, the expansion of new rules with major junior players being able to keep playing after they get done their junior eligibility. There's a radical change in the system. I think there's enough players to add two teams. That's not why I don enough players to add two teams. That's not why I don't want to add two teams.

The players are going to vote for, that's 40 new jobs, 46 new jobs. They're going to vote for two new teams. GM's going to vote, hey, it's two more GM jobs. The problem is at some point the league would be too big. I think it's big enough now and I think if you keep expanding, I think we are going to have attendance problems and a couple of buildings come out of here soon anyway. I think it's time to say 32 is enough. It's hard to follow.

Yeah. So who's that kid in the third line on that team? Maybe from a national perspective, JB, but from a regional one, like they haven't got too many markets wrong here in the last little while. And they may go back to it. Which would be a, that's a, we had, we had Ryan Smith on the owner of, yeah, it's easy

to take Bowson, Utah. Let's see how Utah works though. It looks great right now. It does look great. Very small building, non-traditional market. The first five years isn't the hard part. The sixth in the year and beyond is the hard part. So let's see. Let's say Utah's a success. It's been a great success for what? 14 months? Come on. Atlanta was too. Selling tickets the first year, same thing with the PWHL.

Selling out buildings in different buildings once is a lot harder than selling them every night. I mean, there's no doubt it is a substantially different thing, so. Will PWHL make a mistake if they expand now? Yes, yes, I've told them that. They'll make a huge mistake. They don't listen to me.

Nobody listens to me. We're listening. Expansion's coming. No one's going to say it's 1.5. They paid 1.3 billion in Utah. They're not going to turn down 1.5 for Houston, whatever the number is. They're not. That doesn't mean it's smart. It just means you've got someone dumb enough to pay 1.5 million and a league dumb enough

to say, we'll let you in for 1.5 billion. It doesn't mean it's smart. It doesn't mean it's sensible long term. So the thing with like Houston and Phoenix, like it's just population of the cities. Is that what the great appeal is for Betman? Like we want to be in the biggest American cities. That's why they held on to Phoenix for so long. It made sense. I was part of the vote on that. I was with the team then.

They said we're losing money, but we've got to keep it to 5 million DMA. We've got to keep that market. We've got to keep Phoenix DMA We got to keep that market. We got to keep Phoenix got to keep Phoenix got to keep Phoenix So he kept Phoenix we beat it to death and finally they gave up But that doesn't mean Phoenix won't work as an NHL market. It's a custom to hockey their hockey fans are great They're it'll go there again. They just got to get the right building location. I'm not convinced Utah works Yeah, like you think even like once they have a new building, you're in year six, you're not a winning team, you can see it getting dicey.

It's not a traditional hockey market. It's not a big market compared to others. I'm I have doubts about it. Hope I'm wrong. Yeah, pray I'm wrong. We've got Brian Burke in studio former NHL executive multiple teams, including mine in Hartford once upon a time General manager meetings perky You missed them Yeah, I do you got to swear a lot of those

I'll get the square so here I can't swear Sammy's got the little delay button on yeah Sammy's got the little delay button on just in case. I miss them. I thought a lot of the good things got done then. And my first one, I remember my first one, we worked on the rules. I was so intimidated by those senior guys, Lon Sather and Cliff and Harry Sender. I didn't dare say a word. You didn't say a word?

I didn't say a word the first couple. Then finally they yelled at me to say something. Yeah, you said I think you're a bunch of idiots. Anything strike out out of anything other from rule changes to goalie interference to what do you do with the draft? Well the draft I think is a mistake but I think Gary's doing the right thing on the draft. He said basically... He knows it's a mistake too. Yeah, I think he thinks it's a mistake as well. The players, the GMs started that whole thing. A couple GMs had trouble getting back after the draft and had missed or were late for free agency and complained about it. And that's what started that whole thing. So it was a

mistake. I think it'll go back to the old way. I think the mistake was, I'm hearing the price tag to go to the, wherever it was, the mistake was I'm hearing the price tag to go to the Whoever was a sphere last year was staggering They don't want to make that mistake again But I think they'd like to go back to the conventional draft and Gary Batman basically said that in the meetings after the meetings Yeah, I I was complaining the other day saying that's just like the cost of doing business They have a unique very cool event But I understand a convention center in Columbus

is probably a little bit more affordable than the Sphere. Well, the cost of doing business, everyone says, oh, we have a decentralized trap, we'll save money. How are you going to save money? One still flies in, they go to their home city. So all the scouts from Sweden and Finland and never, they still all fly in. The scouts from Western Canada still fly to New York. You don't save any goddamn money.

You don't save a cent. Do you need to fly them all in? Yes, you do. You have to be there. You need the interaction. You need the time. I made two big deals on the draft floor. One of them was Chris Pronger in 93.

I couldn't have done that, I don't think, if it hadn't been live. I really think it would have been hard to do. And the twins, for sure for sure couldn't have done. And so that, so today, like I understand that they're not doing a centralized draft this year. People are still doing deals in person talking. Yes.

At the draft. Yes. You think they would recognize the value in that? I think it's a handful of GMs. I've heard a couple names. I'm not going to name them. I've heard a couple guys started complaining about it. And the guy said, oh, let's do that.

We'll save a lot. It does save some wear and tear, but it's not like this notion that everyone says, oh, we'll save a lot of money. You don't save money. It's a misnomer. It's a joke. We should get back to what we did.

It was the best draft in pro sports by a mile. Can't get strapped, stands up, kisses his mom, hugs his dad, hugs his family members, goes down, puts on a sweater. How cool is that? Yeah, nothing like it. We had Luke Robitite telling his great draft story. It feels like something we need to get back to.

They ran out of pins on Luke. I wouldn't let guys put hats on him on my dress. That really pissed the league off. You wouldn't let them put it because it's messing up their hair. No, you take the picture and he's got his arms around his mom and dad. You can't see his face. Yeah. This is the brim of the cap.

So I wouldn't let the guys put hats on. I like that. I've had moms, players I draft to call me afterwards and say, thank you. Yeah. Look at all the pictures. My son's the only one you could see. But the league got mad at me for that so. What do you see around the league like we may have we could have six or seven teams out of Canada make the Stanley Cup playoffs. That would be awesome

the one thing Batman said that I agree with wholeheartedly is the league has never been in a better place especially now with like you said Nikki fighting coming back a little bit. The games are great. The races are great. There is parity. There's a bunch of teams still alive. The Canadian teams are all doing well right now. So it's been a great year for the Canadian teams and a great year for the NHL.

And be a great year for sports that if we can get six or seven Canadian teams in the mix, you know, we have an hour before you're on where we talked just about the Toronto Maple Leafs. I don't know how closely you follow them, but are things going to be different this year, Berkey, for the Leafs? Depending on where they finish and who they play, I think the order of finish is really critical. They're clearly better. The Leafs are clearly a better team than they were. Clearly the changes the tree has made are good. I like the new coach a lot. I don't know if they get a different result looking at the teams. Look at the teams that got better. Florida got better. You know, Toronto got better, but I'm not sure they're good enough to beat the reigning champions. Tampa got better. You look around, Dallas

got better. Winnipeg got better. Ottawa got better. You look around, Dallas got better. Winnipeg got better. Ottawa got better. Ottawa got better. So how much luck was involved for you when you would have a team going into playoffs where you felt like this year I have a team, this year I don't have a team. How much of it just comes down to like bounces over a seven day or sorry, two week period? I never did much at the deadline if I thought I had a chance. The year we won it all, I brought in Brad May.

And Brad May was a critical guy for our team. He was a glue guy. He was a support guy. He wasn't a star. He wasn't like some of these other moves. He wasn't bringing in Ranton or something like that. So I think the trade deadline is overrated. I checked again before we came on air.

They're only awarding one cup this year. So these teams that lowered up, someone look at the first look at the West, someone's going down hard. Yeah, that's been a lot of money and assets to get guys picks players. Someone's going out fast and hard in a pine box. How much pressure is on general managers that that go in heavily at the trade deadline? And I'll use Brad Tree Living as an example on Scott Lawton, where it wasn't cheap, right?

But he hasn't had much success with the points, spending far too much time in his own zone. How much pressure is it on the Leafs that they find a place for this guy to fit in moving forward or Berkey do you not worry about that so much because the deal's done you ain't going back you still got a dozen games to go but how much of a priority would it be on a team not just Scott but any team to make sure that the general manager looks good on a trade I've never even mentioned that to my coach,

how I look on the trade. I never even mentioned that to him. I wouldn't mention it to him. I remember one time when I first got to Calgary, I was asked by Bob Hartley if I could dress so-and-so. I said, you dress whomever you like. It's after Jay Fieser came out. And I said, you dress whoever you'd

like. And he said, well, I don't want to make you look bad. I said, don't worry about how I look, just worry about winning games. So to me, it wouldn't be that. It's more a belief that they believe in this guy. They got to find him a place to play because he's a good player. I think that was a good pickup. It hasn't worked out so far, but it will, I believe. So tell us about the evolution of the role of president in GM and front offices, because it felt like for years when I was younger, president was a business side role.

And now you see Montreal and Vancouver and some of these president roles, and I can't speak to how yours was, but it feels like they're much more involved in the actual hockey decisions than they used to be. When I was president of a couple teams, the only one I was ever truly the president was in Vancouver. Because I ran the business.

Dave Cobb was my right hand man and Dave Cobb and I ran the business. Everything from ticket prices to ad campaigns, television commercials, music, playlists, everything. Whole thing. Start to finish. Stop to bottom. That was the only team I ever ran the business on completely. With the Leafs I never did, Richard Petty did that.

And Calgary and Pittsburgh, I was president of hockey operations only. So the true president is a very different job. President of hockey ops is oversee the GM, watch the farm team play. Like in Pittsburgh, I was the the GM watch the farm team play like in Pittsburgh I was a principal contact with the farm team Going and see Wilkes-Barre play and go see go on the road with him a couple times a year Do all that stuff try and sign free agents Overseed the hockey side not the business side

They they panned to Brendan Shanahan Saturday night in Nashville and You know ten years there Berkey and There's no question that there's there's a lot of pressure I think on him or the group in general to get the Leafs over the hump here Not sure there's a question there but other than the fact that as a president, obviously a big part of maybe where his future lies is on the next dozen games to the first couple of rounds. Well, I think that's the math that we all live with.

And obviously, the longer you go without success as a team, the shorter the rope gets and the more pressure builds. I think Shani's a great guy. I think he's done a really good job. But at some point, the math isn't going to work. At some point, people are going to save time for a change. I'm optimistic. I'm hopeful that's not going to happen.

I think Shandy's done a good job. I really like him personally and professionally. So I'm hoping that's not the case. The fact of the matter is, time runs out on every GM. We run out of time. They've had great success here, regular season. Report cards for the GM, the coach, star players are going to be in April and May, not in, or May and June, not in April. So, Berkey, how much room is there in the GM president sort of front office fraternity for new ideas, new ways of thinking.

I'm thinking of Eric Tulsky when I asked this question because I would say he's a bit of an outlier as someone who came from a totally different field and analytics nerd, you know, to some people and now he doesn't look the part compared to some people. How would that be welcomed? Do you think there is a different, a direction for GMs to go that's different? Or do you think that guys like Himmelby just stay as infrequent as they've been? I think you'll see a blending of styles. I think the problem is everyone wants analytics and everyone says analytics is great.

Analytics is great. Analytics is great. I spoke at the Sloan School years ago and I said analytics are like a lamppost to a drunk, useful for support support but not necessarily for illumination. That's the first and last time I've been asked to speak there. I've never been asked back since. I think the key is it's one other tool in the toolbox. That's all it is.

Anyone who thinks you can find a winning hockey team sitting in a laptop is an idiot, an idiot. But you can't disregard the advice and the contribution that they make. A person who ignores it is a bigger idiot. So our view is, we'll worry first what we watch and what we see, we'll do our homework and find out more about these players, then we'll put the analytics layer on and find out, are we looking at the wrong thing or are we making a mistake? So it has a very critical role. I think to think you're going to find players sitting at a laptop It's just dumb

you know that reminds me I would have paid big bucks to see you and Tom Dundon work together. Oh, yeah, I would last a real long Remember my finger I'll screw this up. I gotta say hi to Kim Coats' mom. It's her birthday tomorrow, Joyce. Joyce Coats, happy birthday tomorrow. Happy birthday, Joyce. Happy birthday. All right.

From real Kimberlorn. Kim Coats, great Canadian actor, Saskatoon boy. Love that. The new owner, much different from when I broke into the league in the 90s where it was Mr. Wirtz and Mr. Jacobs and Mr. Snyder and Philly. Now we're like looking at guys made a lot of money pretty fast on the internet and they're hands-on. They're hands-on. Jerry Jones. It's Jerry Jones.

It's like you buy yourself a toy. Except Jerry Jones played Division I college football. He started at the University of Arkansas. He was a legitimate prospect football player, legitimate guy. He had working knowledge of the game at the college level. It's not an analogy to some guy that made a billion dollars selling vacuum cleaners.

Jesus Murphy, it's different. Did Tom Dundon make a mistake trading for Rantanen? Yes. And they made a nice recovery, a nice pivot on it. But yeah, they didn't make their team any better, even though they won eight or nine in a row. They thought they were adding a Stanley Cup piece, and they they didn't do their homework and they had to move them. Now a nice pivot by Eric Wartowiczewski, nice pivot, got a good player, a good young player, small but good, two first round picks I believe, nice pivot, but their team didn't get better.

It wasn't a success, it wasn't the hollywood had gotten if they'd had them signed and traded them. That was a mistake. So are you surprised watching, since you mistake. So are you surprised watching? Since you left Pittsburgh, are you surprised watching where they're at? Well, there's some limitations on what I'm allowed to say about pitch. Oh, okay, he's still June 30th Look forward to having you on July 2nd A minute after I can't I can't root against it though. I can't know what's the game last night

I know people say you must love it when Pittsburgh loses I don't know yeah not cuz it's dead and tangering you know, and that's a pretty special group I saw Sid is two goals shy of the 20th straight 20 goal season or something hit two points short of the point a game point per game. That's what it is point 20 season. Apparently you are at least. God, I could just pepper you all day with questions here,

but I'll start this one with a follow-up on Rantanen and Mitch Marner. By the way, I forgot one thing you asked about. Gary Battman and the playoff format. Gary has steadfastly resisted an increasing number of teams that make the playoffs, which I support as well. I'm really old school on that. This play-in and this other. The regular season is so intense right now because of what we have.

We had a play-in that you lose some of that intensity. Gary's been on the right side of that issue for me. Okay, Branson and Marner, two markets in Colorado and Toronto that probably didn't envision both players possibly either not finishing the season or being in a different uniform the following season. Have you had a player that you teetered on that you didn't know waited weren't sure on and you know could the Leafs handle this differently? Could Colorado have handled this differently? How did you how do you how do you see all of that?

You're asking a question that requires me to think back more than about 24 months so that's really hard. But no I think put, put it this way, I think once they brought his name up, once Carolina brought up Mitch's name, I think Tree had an obligation to take it to him. I don't think at that point, not a fiduciary obligation, like a legal obligation, but at some point you have the obligation to not go to Mitch Meyer later and say, they asked about you and he said, I would have loved to go there. So I think at that point, you point you can hate making the call probably because you know it's gonna upset him but you say Mitch they asked I have to

ask you do you want to go to Carolina he said no I think it took him about four seconds to say no. Have you had a player that you wanted to sign that was looking at unrestricted free agency and ended up leaving that you weren't sure about? No, because we were much more discerning with our no trade clauses. That's one thing tree. Everyone has on now. One thing tree inherited was a whole bunch of no trade, no move clauses, which are very different. Very different than a list of eight or ten. Most I ever gave, I think, was eight teams. And what burned my ass is that eight teams would always be the seven Canadian teams whether the kids were Canadian or not

even Canadian kids will put their names on the no-trade list I'm like how can you do that how can it all be seven Canadian teams on your no-trade list when you're Canadian do you think you know when we sit here and go boy no Cups in Canada since 93 that's connected eh yes yeah Yes. And I saw a response to leaks that, well, since the salary cap came in, as many southern markets have won, many California cups have won as many whatever. Like it's not lengthened. The non-tax states won as many cups as the taxable states. I'm like, they're accounting two California cups, one cup in Anaheim. And like, I'm like, okay, but those are all kind of old though. My cup seems like a long time ago. So in the 15, 18 years really hasn't worked that way. It's definitely a

factor. I don't know what you do about it. It's definitely tax structure is a factor. And it says it's not as crazy. The other little thing in the States is you get to deduct the mortgage interest you pay on your mortgage So they had subsidized all buyer and so you get to write that off to you don't get to write that off in Canada It's a huge tax savings. Mm-hmm The tax taxes came up at the general manager meetings, but I don't think Doesn't sound like anything's gonna come out of it I don't think you can do much with it, but is it a big issue? Yes, it is There's no way to just have it be

Pre-tax dollars. What about with tariffs right now? What do you? Know you're right. It's really it's really difficult thing to do. I'd like to see a way to come with Take home dollars or your cap dollars, but I'm not sure I do that. Yeah, we'll solve it on another day more lawyers Right here That's that. Yeah, we got one right. I know and actually showed out I believe his son got a great lawyer joke is not appropriate for this show. I'm totally unsurprised by that Awesome stuff man. Thanks for coming by. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Burke. You appreciate it.

That is the great Brian Burke. We're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, a little game time. Sammy McKee, more real kipper after the break. And Bourne. Oh, thanks. Hey, it's Ben Ennis. And I'm Brent Gunning. We got you covered on all things Leafs, Raptors, and Blue Jays every weekday morning, six to nine. It's the Fan Morning Show. Sportsnet 590 The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. ["Bet 365 Theme Song"]

This hour, a real kipper and born brought to you by Bet 365 for a little game time with Sammy McKee. Oh boy, I don't have the right sheet. I don't have the right sheet. 365 go a little game time with Sammy Mickey Oh Boy, I don't have the right. I don't have the right sheet Oh, I do want to do this every day for two seasons and I panic By playoffs you got to have that thing. Okay, it's game time. Okay. I can't do it To find out why it's never ordinary at bed three six five. Let's be 19 plus Ontario only please play responsibly. So tons of college basketball over the weekend and I'm sorry Barney.

Your Johnny's. Oh man. The Red Storm. That's right. They got stormed. They're going to return a few other best players. Yeah. So but now we're into the sweet 16 where it's a lot of the favorites have made their way

through not a ton of huge upsets and Florida still right there is the second favorite Duke is the heavy favorite plus 230 So lots of lots of opportunities to maybe you know have a bit of value down the list But the one sees that one seeds who survived as you would imagine are the favorites going into the sweet 16 tonight on the ice Four games including the Vancouver Canucks who are in New Jersey to take on the Devils. We'll talk a little bit about this in News and Notes after we're done with this segment, but Hulglander and Elias Pedersen,

the shooter in the net one, the number 40, not the defenseman, they both went back to Vancouver today. They didn't, they don't know if they have enough forwards. And called up. And Demko is starting tonight for the Devils. Oh, so not for the Devils. That'd be really bad if they're like a Canucks.

He's starting for the Canucks. So the Canucks are plus 115 underdogs against the Devils. I'm sure we'll talk about Sheldon Keefe's exploits in the News and Notes as well. And the other games on the ice, Columbus and the New York Islanders, which all of a sudden is a big playoff race game Catch the fever between those two. I trust you

to give me like the goods on the Islanders all year and They're in there. Oh, they stink. They're no good. They're good. They're not good. Like this is really pretty much describing the whole league in general. That's exactly what it is. And like because Lou has always prioritized having these like veteran good pro guys, you get a certain number of good games from him. And apparently that's all it takes to stay in the race.

And if you would like to, you can bet them as minus 135 favorites tonight against the Columbus Blue Jackets later on the Utah Hockey Club. Hopefully our new best friend Ryan Smith wasn't listening to Brian Burke because I don't want him to hear that because I want to go golfing with him in the summer.

Anyways, these are their big favorites tonight against Detroit in Utah, minus 170. The other game on the ice tonight is the wild taking on the Dallas Stars. Stars big favorites as you would imagine Minus 210 and that was game time presented by bet 365 visit the app latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary bet 365 must be 19 plus on terror only please play responsibly Frank

Miles two cents is getting dobson back is has been big. He's excellent carry on. Okay. He's really good. Yeah, Vancouver Vancouver Canucks find themselves five points back Of st. Louis, but do have two games in hand But the Blues winners of eight of ten six in a row, right six in a row eight of ten Like they are New York Islanders of the East where you're for the West where you go Like how we had you buried? Yeah, we had the funeral. It's gonna be sneaky tight You know once the the games played get leveled out three more from Calgary two more from Vancouver two more for Utah That's gonna look really tight. So every point matters. The Canucks, four games left on this road trip,

if I'm not mistaken. New Jersey, Islanders, Columbus, Winnipeg to go. Gonna need three wins there. Gonna need three wins. So big one tonight. The Devils are tripping on their own skate laces every time they turn around. Obviously seriously injured, no Hamilton, no Hughes.

Would you like to watch? The coach is mad. would you like to watch Sheldon Keefe get angry yeah all right do we have that clip there Jake I think we have it Covers ever just mentioned to us that he he thinks the team kind needs to have that playoff mentality going down the stretchers that's something that she's a play Just having to play better. That would help. Oh that made a bad So in other words The guy just needs to shut up correct and plot. I actually watched the Kova sevich clip. He got totally misrepresent Misrepresented in that question like he didn't he was they weren't like asking him for some like his commentary on it He basically I forget exactly how the questions were phrased to him, but he said all the right things.

It was like the most stock, normal answer about the mentality. Just have that proper... Somehow that's not about that. That's the cherry on the ice cream. It felt like Sheldon just didn't want to hear from that guy. You gotta go back to that first scoop of ice cream to figure what's going on between the two of them. There is something that's been asked of

that has not been delivered or vice versa, but that thing's, there's a lot more history than just hearing that clip. It's funny, in the first hour, Sam had the conversation about how Sheldon didn't have many, if any, maybe one or two of those outbursts over his head It was the soft and purposeless that was a real Sticking point and then he called out he's like our stars need to be better

Remember that yeah, which is like totally fine, but he had to come out and apologize for it after But so it does feel like they're on or it's less eyeballs It's more confidence being in the league longer where he can just kind of be himself a little bit more. But I can tell you, having been in the coach's office with Sheldon Keith, that sort of energy is terrifying and regular. You know, that is like that. There's the one clip from the Amazon All or Nothing series where the goalie coach, you know, they give one up and the goalie coach is like, well, you can see it was tipped there.

And Sheldon like interrupts and he's like, can we stop we stop when he tips we get a save on one that's tipped That's allowed you know like that is more like behind the scenes stuff, so it makes me very happy I'm happy that it's not aimed at me I don't know if we can pull that clip up again Jake for anybody who's watching But you can just see as the question yeah like you mad He's getting like his face is just getting madder and madder And he's just ready to explode He's thinking am I gonna do this? Am I gonna do this? And then just does it like you can just see it

That's it. Look it up. Look at his face mentality going down the stretchers. That's A play. Oh, you let him finish. No, he's like, okay How about whatever you have to say about Kova? Savage? He just went play better display So I feel for him because then the storm And then the storm off. Yeah, yeah. You sound. That was just not a hey anymore question. Well, if you look at this playoff shoot. They're not close enough.

They're not locked in. Like they're in playoffs, they're gonna make playoffs. But you know, there's six point lead on the playoffs. What should have been a top three lock is now Crawling in now There's still a chance if the Leafs were to win the division they could get the Devils I Said I don't want to hold in Keith beats the Leafs first round a nice story for you. I don't want to be Mr. I told us so but I have literally said this like on our first show of the year that this was a possibility.

That Sheldon's gonna finally get over the hump against the Leafs. I said it was gonna be the other way around because the Devils going into this season were... Oh yeah, can be one seed potentially. And I do feel for them because like preseason they were a cup favorite. Everybody was talking about how their decor was unbelievable. Which last year they had 76 points or something. Well yeah but they had the new goaltenders. Everybody talked about how bad they got ruined by their goalies last year Unbelievable decor. What was that stat that they had like the best?

Seven games stretch in NHL history when all those guys are healthy I'm gonna rate games under 20 shots allowed when they were healthy and like Hughes goes out for the year Everybody's hurt. I do feel for Sheldon a bit, because he went into a really good situation that got bad. So, tough one. Injuries, man. What can you do? Hopefully he doesn't have to do a video like on the shores of the Hudson this year to post.

On an upside down plane with Captain Sully. Devil nation. Just off air, I kind of asked Brian Burke about Montreal Canadiens, and he didn't have a great feeling about them making the playoffs. And I'm like, you know, like Burke, you didn't watch Saturday night. It was amazing.

Not watch that comeback. Did you not feel the electricity in Montreal? That building was on way go. Yeah. The All Vibes teams this year are Montreal and Calgary, right? Like teams that didn't think they'd be here, that have rallied to get in their spot. You know, the Flames, a couple that come from behind wins on this road trip.

They won three straight, you know, against very good teams, often from behind. Like this is great vibes. Montreal is the same thing where it's like, you know, Saint-Louis was, was he going to get fired? Is he going to finish the year? And all of a sudden Slavkovski is better. Suzuki's found his game. Caulfield shooting it in. Things are kind of coming together. So I know. I know Hudson didn't end up with any points on Saturday night. He played 28 minutes. I got my caller vote right now. Plug your ears. Probably fans and plug your ears. Habs fans, because I don't

want this to show up on Habs Reddit, which it probably will. He's unbelievable. What are these, Quinn Hughes? He is unbelievable. They're in the family. They're in that dynamic family. Well, they got his kid brothers lighting it up at a college in the States too. He was really good for their world junior team.

Yeah, Washington Capitals. Is it Cole? Cole. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. He was really good for the junior team like yeah all these American families this Hudson has 53 points as a rookie D man this year will likely finish with over 60. That's he's Dan's he's Josh Allen yeah for them they changed the franchise as the QB. It really has. Yeah. There's just no... he dictates when he's out there. As we're heaping praise on young prospects, have you guys seen this Gavin McKenna stuff? No. Like he's... I mean I... yes I'm aware of him and that he's doing very well. He, in his last six games played, would you like to guess how many points he has?

I don't know, 16? Kipper? Yeah, I'm in the 15 to 16 range. 26 points in his last six games. Is he playing minor hockey? He plays for the Medicine Hat Tigers. 26 points in his last six games? That's a lot.

So, if you average it to four and a half points... And Gavin Mechanicals is at his draft year with 129 points in 56 games. It's minus one draft year with 129 points in 56 games. Over the past 40 years Sidney Crosby is the only CHL player to have more in that type of season. Oh thank god we have another one coming. Like we have we got another one and we have this other one. I was watching a thing about another kid is playing in Regina that's even better. Like they got a few coming and we got best on best on best or okay but this is next year you're gonna see a real tank show can we can we not put up the con and but dar pressure on guys

anymore please no can we not just that mean though Kip what does that mean it means should we What does that mean? It means... Should we not mention it? Should we... Should we say there's a guy having a very good year putting up a lot of points and then that's it. Leave it at that. And just not call about superstardom and... So we're not allowed to be excited about it. I think the really good guys in the really good league have a chance to be really good is my take. I just don't want them built up and then, you in Kipper's gonna come on here on the shop after his

first game in a show Jesus too much ice what did the dark do to this whl what it does sir it is he's just an OHL guy through and through hates the dub the the whole it's it's the overhype now that's what we do now. We overhype. We've always done that. McDavid, he did okay. Not to this degree. Are you kidding me? Not to this degree. Yes, we did. Sid was the most hyped thing ever.

Sid was big, for sure. And so was McDavid. Yep. Oh, I get it. The Blackhawks are a shame. That's all. Yeah. They're gonna be still bad enough in 2026 to potentially get a shot at Gavin McKenna, so. Oh my God. That'd be good for them.

Speaking of Sid, I don't know if you guys have been following this, but he leads the NHL in points since the Four Nations break, 20 points, and now leads the NHL in five on five points for the season. What a freak. 20th season in the NHL, still doing it on a team that is second worst in the season. What a freak. 20th season in the NHL still doing it on a team that is second worst in the East. Like what are they without Sid?

Oh, the worst is the answer. Why doesn't he want to leave? And then you don't get to watch Stanley Cup playoffs. Was this one of the two years of his two-year deal or was it no, he just signed it. Yeah, this is the last year of his long one. No, he's so upset. You know, it's a he's kicks in a two-year deal. Yeah at eight point seven I told you he could I'll hit all he had to do is trade deadlines say

I'll go to Colorado. Yeah, and that's still always on the table for him always and I Would bet that It will get revisited in the summer. Why wouldn't you, you need to, you need to stay on top of it, you need to check in. It's no more than a thanks or no thanks. I'm good, I'm staying.

But they'd have to stay on top of it. It's about Sid. It's about what he wants. If he's okay, still babysitting next season and playing at this incredible high level. So let me ask you this, okay? These guys skate together in Coal Harbor all the time in the summer. They're Nova Scotia guys, McKinnon and him. And Marchand.

So they're like glued to the McKinnon and him What and our Shann and Marchant? So they're like, yeah, but I knew to the hip one plays for Colorado already And I know you've alluded to the fact that There could be a whatever What does when Nathan's talking to him and he says why don't you play for Colorado? Why don't you like come play for Colorado? What does he say back? He laughs Yeah, he just wants to be the one sweater guy. Is that it? He you know, he grew up was his first year Do you live with Mario Lemieux? Yes. Yeah, you know like that's Penguins indoctrination from day one, baby. He's been a penguin. He's been he is been

Mario jr. A little bit here in terms of the way he's carried himself, the way he's private, the way he's never gone on Instagram. Never. That's a great way to do it, by the way. Not once did I ever see him go, I've got a new girlfriend, but I want my privacy. Oh, don't take a shot at my boy Tiger. He's going through a tough time. Tiger catching his fire.

What is that? Oh boy, listen, I'm as diehard a fan of Tiger Woods as you'll find. I have no comments at this time. No comments or questions at this time. That's a weird dude. Weird dude. My God, is that weird.

I love Tiger as a golfer. It's like visiting a safari with a T-bone steak around your neck. What are you doing, Tiger? Just maybe don't put that in there. He's acknowledging, yes everyone, we are a couple, but we don't want to talk about being a couple. Oh my God, that's weird.

Then don't talk about it. That's a good start. But to my point, Sid was always kind of like Mario. Like, where's Mario? Don't hear from him, don't see him, just like right under the radar. Playing golf, baby. So now, hitting it a mile. Loving his life.

So then what you're telling me is, is that the league is going to frozen envelope it for Gavin McKenna and Gavin to the Penguins and Gavin McKenna is going gonna be Sidney Crosby to Sidney Crosby's Merrill Lemieux That's it's about to happen. If only we could figure out why any league would care about Pittsburgh that much Well, they already did they throw they saved the team by frozen up That's like one of the best conspiracy theories ever the hockey conspiracy is that they frozen enveloped it ask Berkey about the Pittsburgh plant You know, he'll tell you They want a damn lottery Famous quotes ever it's like the Pittsburgh model. So I don't know I could see that happening

All right, just like they did they should have done for the lease and Connor McDavid anyways NHL looking at element of surprise and handing out awards see that that? I saw that. Elliot had the report that they're, they're just gonna prank guys. They're just gonna show up, you won the Selkie trophy. And they're gonna be like, grocery shopping? Thanks, sick. Seriously, who's pranking for God's sakes an award? It's not a prank.

No, Elliot said prank. It appears that the heartwarming video Josh Allen received the Children's Hospital of Buffalo after winning the NFL MVP has got the NHL thinking. So I guess they surprised him there where he was doing a charity thing and that's where they told him and it was wonderful. I'm not sure I've ever heard of a story more designed to piss Kipper off. This is if you made one in a lab, AI generate one to piss off Kipper, this might

be number one. Do you know how many likes the NHL could get with this new like... New viral video. Yeah, like likes beyond belief. Lane Hudson's girlfriend surprises him with a Calder Trophy. But I'm not... Retweet. I'm not shutting my phone off. I'm just gonna wait after surprise after surprise

After surprise, I don't know what the answer is cuz the award show stinks. Yeah, just who cares just don't have it Like who watches it? Who's a what you want to create events? They're talking about like money They just have a draft and that is like what do you mean you mean talking about money? No, saving money or spending money. Like just get rid of that show. In all the fact we can't have a couple things that cost extra money. First of all, the award shows, everybody's tired, hungover.

Nobody wants to go to that show. Nope. Chadwick King Thompson is off. Okay. One more reminder, this hour of real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by bet 365. Our thanks to Brian Burke. That more reminder. This hour of real Kipper and born brought to you by bet three, six, five. Our thanks to Brian Burke.

That was awesome. Came in to the studio, shared his thoughts. Did he swear at all on the show? Cause he really wanted to. All right. Enjoy your games tonight. Four on tap. Pick your favorite one and then join us back here tomorrow. And we get to do it all over again on the Real Kipper and Born Show. Have a great night, everybody. You