Real Kyper & Bourne - Lightning & Leafs Meet Again

Episode Date: December 2, 2022

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee begin the show discussing the Maple Leafs facing the Tampa Bay Lightning for the first time since their playoff series loss and Lightning head coach Jon Cooper (23:17) breaks down the performances from his hockey club this season, Mikhail Sergachev's impact on the blue line, and what he thinks about Mitch Marner's current point streak. Then, the guys' weekly chat with Doug MacLean (42:44) as he talks about how the Leafs have changed their year around after a rough start, dealing with injuries on the roster, and his time as a teacher. Afterward, former Leafs' GM Dave Nonis (1:04:53) weighs in on the evolution of the Leafs' core group, at what point during the regular season a team's front office will assess their roster, the use of analytics in hockey, and how coaches and general managers view highly touted prospects. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. It is Off the Rails Friday. Already? What do you mean already? It's been a long week, man. It's Off the Rails week. No, it is Off the Rails because we're going to uh doug mclean come on oh boy in about 45 minutes we we got a great show great lineup thanks to sammy mckee derrick brandeo frank the tank and you of course jb but we got listen to this head coach john cooper tampa bay is going to come

on in about 15 20 minutes tell everybody what uh they can expect out of tampa bay when the leafs go in there for i don't know if i'm going to say a signature uh maybe we say signature game yeah game sammy's hyping it up biggest of the year no game will ever be bigger and leave history has to be a measuring stick right sammy listen we've been going through some monotonous ones here for the past week or so this shark's one had to be the least interesting hockey game of the year even even like against detroit you know it's like oh yeah destroy it still sucks minnesota still boring like even though they're the best team in the league i guess uh you know the the devils are okay pittsburgh again and now you're getting a new opponent team you've played in the playoffs first time since game seven mitch marner point streak on

the line yeah matt murray has the number one versus Andre Vasilevsky. The last guy to beat him in a game seven, Matt Murray. Wow. Love that stat. So that's all good. We got, like I said, Doug McClain will come on on a Friday. And then in the second hour, Dave Nones, former general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs, will join us.

It'll be interesting to talk to him on a couple of things, including the Luongo thing. And we'll talk about this later on, on whether or not you thought he should have had his number retired or not. He's in the Ring of Circle for Vancouver. Ring of Honor. The Ring of Circle. Circles are rings already. I knew it was a ring of circle for Vancouver ring of honor circles are rings already I knew it was a ring of something

he's in the oval ring of circles isn't that where he comes out to center ice and he goes through hoops that's the way it worked when I took my daughter to those what do you call them? Gymnasiums. Oh, yeah, yeah.

I'm not sure on the gymnastics places. If I remember correctly, Dave Nones was the general manager that traded for Luongo in Vancouver. And correct me if I'm wrong, Sammy, because this is my sixth concussions maybe kicking in here, but was he, with the Leafs, was he the general manager who tried, at the time, tried to trade for Luongo to Toronto? You know who's going to know the answer to this? Dave Donas. I think he was, because I remember it being after the playoff when they lost in the playoffs

because he was the general manager in 2013 when they had the first epic collapse the one that was still probably the worst to be honest that one and then uh i think it was the next year when they were looking for goaltending that was the year he tried to trade. We could ask him. So he was... Or was it Berkey? The Leafs were close. I don't know. It was either Berkey and Nones or just Nones at that point. Maybe Berkey was already gone. But we will ask him.

But just to kind of close this off before we move into the Leafs and Tampa Bay. John Cooper coming up. Were you pulling for that sammy do you remember where your leaf vibe was on that oh my god we got to go get this guy or did you go nah not really oh you wanted him i'm not the biggest guy no no back then back then you were in a luongo guy because i remember it being, what the hell are we trying to do here? Like, it was the era of being caught in the middle.

All right. Like, they were like the mushy middle team where it was like, are you trying to finish ninth here? Are you trying to finish eighth, get to eighth spot, and play whoever in the first round? Like, I remember it being a weird move for a team that wasn't ready to compete. It was them trying to, you know. It was a blue and white disease back then, I feel like.

You know, they were really trying to compete and keep all of us happy, the media. Do we want to touch on Luongo and this Ring of Honor thing? You got put in the Ring of Honor? Is that interesting? Yeah, you want to do that now or later? Sam, tell us what to do. No, no, let's do this later because we got Dave Nones coming off

and we'll come off of a conversation probably on Luongo with Dave Nones and then we'll just move into what we think. Good producing. Sammy, you go home on for the rest of the day. You're good. I got you covered. Yeah, I mean, you booked all the guests. All right.

By the way, I love Kipper's been out a couple nights this week. You're my favorite version of you right now. You're just like, whatever. Remember, I'm not a professional. I've never... Yeah, I had a trucker's convention yesterday. I've got to be honest with you. If you're hearing a little bit of the frog,

I hung out with truckers last night. Oh, that's the best. 1,200 of them. Speaking of unprofessional... Not the Freedom Combat. I didn't put the clips in for our show, so I'll be back in two seconds. And then you guys can just talk away to yourselves.

I'll be right back. What's he doing? I missed it. I don't know. I was worried about saying something political. We have no clips yet? I have. Sammy clipping them all on. I don't know what's going on. See, that's the part where he like... He played a clip over the real words, and now you don't know what happened? No, and now

people think I spoke twice. Let's just get on with the show. That was Colby. That was Colby? All right, Sammy, clipping them all off. Obnoxious laugh at the tail. All right, so we're waiting on Keefe talking about facing the Tampa Bay Lightning.

That's what's coming up next. In the meantime, I'll tell you this. The Leafs have four players with 25 plus points through the first 25 games of a season for the first time since 1981-1982. That being Marner, Matthews, Tavares, and Nylander. In 81-82,

any guesses on who would have had that many points early in the season? 81-82? Sittler would have been gone by then I think gone yeah he's not one of the four so like Rick Vive

we have the clips no uh Builder Lego yeah you got that one uh John Anderson oh

Wilf Payment and Boria Boria Salming okay nice we have our clips I'm sorry boys no don't be sorry i'm back it's

okay that's pretty quick i ran did you get to our desks i ran damn i ran all right let's go to sheldon keep on facing two times stanley cup champions tampa bay lightning when you're removed i mean i think uh anytime you go through a series like that, no matter who the opponent is, I think you learn a lot about your team, you learn a lot about yourself. And, you know, I think we did a lot of good things in that series,

but obviously not good enough to get it done in the end. But you still grow inside of that. And, you know, you learn some tendencies of your opponent for sure. But every season's a new one. Every game a new one especially in the regular season uh so you know a lot has changed even though um not a whole lot of time has passed i mean like it's two different teams you know in their own way and obviously far different time of year all right tampa bay different or toronto. All right. Tampa Bay different or Toronto?

Toronto's not all that different personnel-wise, are they? I think new goalies. I guess that's different, significantly different. Jack Campbell was a sub-900 or about a 900 in that playoff series. But it's your horses that are going to dictate this again. Are they not? Yeah, for sure. And Tampa Bay's horses are horsing. Nikita Kucherov is fourth in the NHL in points, I believe, right now.

Braden points, Haman. Nick Paul is like Wayne Gretzky. How many goals does he have this year? 11. 11. Kalorn's up there, too. He's got seven, I think. Doing really well.

So you mentioned the horses for the Leafs. Sportsnet Stats just put out this tweet which is truly remarkable the least core four forwards marner matthews devarus and nylander have combined for 49 of all the team's points this year and they take up 49 of the team's salary cap so there you go they're getting efficiency they're not uh yeah they're not overly efficient but they're also inefficient they're perfectly efficient they're finely tuned so how would that compare to other teams sammy get that get that stat guy to do that well let's not talk don't bring up the bruins okay i know that's the first one that you're thinking of i actually it was edmonton i was thinking oh yeah with uh mcdavid dry sidle like zach hyman i would imagine just looking to tampa

like i'd be curious to do it there too so kucherov is 35 points in 23 games stamkos 28 points in 23 games point is over a point per game which makes sense sergachev almost a point per game on top of the physical element and willing to be the fourth fighter what would sergachev, almost a point per game, on top of the physical element and willing to be the fourth fighter. What does Sergachev have for points right now? Four goals, 18 assists, 22 points in 23 games. Okay, so that's McDonough gone, me sliding in there and then pushing my offense. But didn't Sammy say that Hedman wasn't on the first power play unit?

Sergachev is? There you go. That's a pretty big switcheroo. That's a good question for Cooper. Why are you dumping on Victor Hedman? You don't like Hedman? You want to give us a hit? No, I mean, we'll say that to Cooper.

You don't want this Hedman guy? Last time I checked, he was pretty good. Brandon Hagel has 17 points, seven goals, 10 assists. So the two first rounders are, are looking good now giving up. Well, he makes 1.5 million for the next two seasons. So yeah, if you're going to get 30 goals out of a guy,

I think that's a pretty good value. I would say that's efficient money despite the first rounders. So who's going to start then? Are we going back to memories? The starter is Matt Murray. That's been named. Yes. That's been named, which, that's been named.

Which I think a lot of people are wondering now, two healthy guys, two guys looking pretty good when they're in. What kind of look can we expect in the next week or two with both Matt Murray and Samsonov? Let's go to Sheldon Keefe on his goaltending plan. Well, we want to have both guys involved. That's the reality of the NHL, first of all. But in our situation specifically, with both guys that played so well

and even coming into the season, we believed in their abilities and thought that we could get a lot of use out of both. That mindset hasn't changed. However, it's a day-to-day thing, and we'll look at it based on schedule and whatnot. I think Matt has done a terrific job and has played a fair number of starts in a row and has really got on a roll. He obviously didn't play the other night so it's important for us to get him back in and he'll go tomorrow. I have a bit of a plan going forward there but

I won't communicate that to anyone including them until we need to because I think it's important that we take each day as they come and decide from there. Including them stands out to me. Like, the goalies aren't told the plan. I'm okay with it. Sammy, you raised your eyebrows at that part, though.

Yeah. I mean, are they trying to keep the competition factor up like i think dubas talked about it i'm not sure when this was but he said that matt murray excels in sort of a competition basis like that he he kind of feeds off that so is that what they're trying to keep up because it's very clear to me that there should the plan should be and then you know if he wants a night off in a row a couple in a row he could to keep up because it's very clear to me that there should the plan should be matt murray is the starter and then you know if he wants a night off in a row a couple in a row you give him to samson off yeah to me at this point that's a very clear plan and he should just yeah i get the sense

that whatever they felt before training camp with these two guys and they're still just despite what they've seen out of matt murray they're still kind of sticking to the feeling that they had prior to that that they and i'm not i don't i'm not necessarily saying that they were they were stuck on splitting these guys and rotating them every other game but i think there was a real thought that you know unlike what i wrote earlier this year that there was never the thought of one of them having 50 games right that it was closer to that 40 40 low 40s range for one of them and someone underneath that you know yeah we're just really tight maybe i don't know within six games of each other i just feel like seven they they have no idea what to expect here like going into the year i think they took you know they bought two lottery

tickets and hope to scratch off a couple of prizes things are going pretty well but they don't want to lock themselves in by saying murray's our guy and then murray comes out and you know pees the bed three games in a row and they don't want to look like they're you know you know they want to be able to say hey we didn't we're just taking as it comes he's not hot right now he's going to go back i don't think they want to commit to anyone more than anything else but you have to and we are talking late november now early december even if you go into january like i me i like a horse you know we've had this conversation i like one guy as a player i needed to always think that we had a number one. We need, you look over your shoulder, you see the one rock there and he's our guy,

but are they leaning towards working that by March, April and not tipping anybody's hand in December, January? Yeah, maybe let it work itself out on the way there. And then, and then March, April, you, you know, it's going to be one of them. And you, january yeah maybe let it work itself out on the way there and then and then march april you you

know it's going to be one of them and you you probably had hoped in september that that would have been matt murray yeah i think yeah to begin with definitely seems like that is a hope hey while we're doing off the rails friday and while i'm thinking of this and because we don't care today about what if i do this uh i saw some tweets today about something that happens in ontario uh when you guys were kids do you ever hear of do you get foot hockey i heard this i'm from bc and i you know like people talking about kicking around a tennis ball yeah kicking a tennis ball using their like hat as a glove and the jackets is well it's the most letter kenny yeah right that was it yeah it's the most letter kenny yeah right that was it yeah it's the most

letter kenny thing i've ever heard and everyone in ontario was like yeah foot hockey soccer no no for the ball puck thing what is he guys from the 1900s? That explains your forehead. We did play, we played foot hockey until grade four. What do you mean? Okay. And then grade four and up, we were allowed to have sticks for recess. So we'd play actuals. You weren't allowed sticks.

That's why you, okay. Like in my school where I went, Bayview Elementary, shout out, own sound Ontario. We weren't allowed sticks until grade four and up. So until we were in grade four, we played with a tennis ball. And could your school afford a larger ball? Like a soccer? But like, whatever.

You're still in the, you're in the smaller spot. You would play street hockey. Okay. And you just kick it around. It's just the most Canadian thing I've ever heard. It's like, yeah, we just lost in the World Cup because we couldn't get you guys a slightly bigger ball. So the reason we're talking about this?

It was tweets. Someone tweeted, I think it was Mendes, tweeted about it. He was like, did people also do this or was this in my little bubble? And I was like, no, man, this is just your bubble. That's weird. And like 700 people from Ontario were like, actually, that's a huge part of my childhood. Actually, everyone did it.

Actually is like. When you didn't have many sticks in the hotel or motel lobbies or the hallways, you went to foot hockey. Standing up, just shoulders through the wall, through the drywall of the motel. Pretty much. Pretty much. Foot hockey was really fun. No, no no it's good okay um we got one more clip before we get to a serious conversation with

coop um nick robertson's back in tonight cali yarn crock is hurt he's not going to play of getting malgan is out as uh wayne simmons draws back in i assume to chat with pat maroon when that becomes necessary um but yeah so nick robertson's back in, I assume, to chat with Pat Maroon when that becomes necessary. But, yeah, so Nick Robertson's back in. Why don't we listen to Nick on getting back in a rhythm? Yeah, I feel like, you know, it's kind of hard to, you know, I mean, it's kind of on me too, but, you know, I want to get these games, get going, get the production back. And, you know, it's kind of hard when, you know,

you're out for a little bit and you come back. It's hard to kind of get back into it. But now it's a challenge of kind of just with every game I get to, you know you're out for a little bit and you come back it's hard to kind of get back into it but uh now it's a challenge of kind of just with every game i get to you know sorry do everything i can to be consistent and stay in the lineup so he's he's alluding to the fact he's like yeah i can't play well if i don't play yeah i'm kind of hard to produce when i don't get uh opportunity hey uh can always get a better rhythm with the marlies tons of rhythm you know and it's you better learn to pick up the rhythm of no rhythm that's such a good point okay it's like this is either going to be the rhythm or there's going to be new rhythms better being up

here than it would ever be down there so you just wait it out and you treat every start like it's a gift from the hockey gods to start the the first game of staying up here the rest of your career yeah you know he's got five point or five games here with no points um you know even minus one minus one even even he but his ice time has ticked up you know three games ago is nine minutes, then 10, then 13 last game. So, you know, possible they're looking to give him some more reps. Listen, he's getting some good looks the other night on a, on a top six on a team. That's one of the hottest in hockey right now.

I mean, just find that rhythm and put, put a puck in the net or make a good play and shouldn't be that hard with a guy that that has that skill that can shoot a puck i've said this several times that like it's not he's not in a position where he can just have an okay game like we need to see him do something create something be involved in something he's playing with if you could hand pick lines to be on playing alongside tavarez and marner is going to be in the top 20 opportunities in the nhl i imagine so really good spot for him tonight he's played a few games in a row i feel like the excuse is uh excuse time's over time to see something from nicky robertson tonight uh his brother by the

way can he just call his brother and say, just lend me one goal? Just lend me one goal. Bought me two. If I get on a tear, I'll give back your stats. Can we call the league up and take one off your hat trick and pass it over to me? That guy's in first in the NHL in goals right now. 22, if I'm not mistaken. In 24 games.

Speaking of off the rails Friday, if we ever get another best on best, America, please no in a big game against Canada. Look at that forward core. Matthews, Eichel, Robertson, Paige Thompson. McDavid, McKinnon. I know, but they're scary, man. Yeah.

They're scary. That's a developed, like they've developed some really good, like they were always good, but it's different now than they used to be. Like they used to be much, I don't know what the word is for states, but now they're just like it's high end, high end scary skill. So I fear that. They still get Patrick Kane out there. He's okay still.

Am I calling Koop? Is he calling us, Skip? No, he's going to, when he's ready, he's going to call in. Perfect. He's going when he's ready he's gonna call in perfect he's going he's going uh yeah it's a shame that uh they couldn't pull it off the world cup well i mean chose not to chose not to on behalf of not wanting to do something political not wanting to take a side right like this is about russia the invasion of ukraine not wanting to take a side right like this is about russia the invasion of ukraine not wanting to exclude the russians because then you can't say it's a true best on best but not wanting to include them probably it it's it's a tough spot for them well i think there's a lot of people

say it's not tough they just don't get to play but but would you want them in there would you still pay for it would you be be as interested in it? Where would the value be on a... And, you know, it's World Cup. It's like four strong nations. And then Team North America, Team Europe. Wasn't the last one they didn't have Germany in there? Throw in a co-ed team? I don't think that's going to happen.

Yeah, you're right. If you eliminate Russia and you consider that there's Canada, Finland, or sorry, Canada, U.S., Finland, Sweden, Russia, Czech, Slovak, Germany, not that many countries you think are competitive, so, Russia, Czech, Slovak, Germany. Not that many countries you think are competitive, so losing one is significant, I imagine, but they just don't want to take a stance. Cowardice.

Well, to Sam's point, though, the fruits of the last 25, 30 years in America is pushing Canada really to the point where it's like... You don't have a goalie. That's an issue. Two powerhouse countries producing world-class talent now. Yeah, and all those guys he just mentioned. Our best goalie is like Darcy Kemper? Who's the best Canadian goalie?

Carter Hart? Carter Hart before Ian Cole's 90-footer off the back wall. Tristan Jari? Tristan Jari? Truly. It's like I don't know who plays. Is Jordan Binnington? Is Marc-Andre Fleury still kicking around in 2025?

No, he's not. No, no, no, no. That's, I mean, Marc-Andrerie price is still finding ways to every once in a while make a spectacular save but that that uh that's no longer there we rolled out wabroder and luongo one year all right as promised the head coach of the tampa bay lightning coop john cooper hey thanks for doing this we know you guys traveled. Big win in Philadelphia. And then you got what we think is a signature kind of marquee game for the Toronto Maple Leafs against you guys.

How are you feeling today? Not bad. It's had a little quick three and four. So, you know, probably didn't play our best in Buffalo, but the big boys pulled it out in the end and then uh actually gave a pretty good effort against boston they just couldn't kill off the penalty in the end so we were okay with that game and then finished off the trip with a good uh good game last night so four to six we'll take that now we just got to come home and win a couple here so uh we just heard from sheldon keef uh we

just played a clip of uh his talking about the the game tomorrow night and yeah it's fresh in our memories uh a first round series yet you know the the lineup tweaks and it's not quite the same i mean how do you view tomorrow night as a measuring stick from both sides? I don't know. Like, to me, 82 games in a regular season. I think we only played at least three times this year. So that's a minuscule amount in 82. And I think either game or either team, it's about making the playoffs.

And so, yeah, like, do you want to win this game? Of course you do. I mean, did we play each other in the playoffs last year? We did. Was it a great series? It was. But I think it's kind of irrelevant towards this year. You know, I was looking at, you know,

somebody asked me about our team and, you know, what's different about it. And I said, well, we got different players. And, you know, we won a cup just cup just i think it was 16 17 months ago and half our team more than half our team has not won a cup with us than had so there's been a lot of turnover the Leafs have had turnover it's just a sign of the times when the cap went flat and uh but in saying that pretty much most of the stars are still there. So it should be, like, in that respect, I always think it's great TV because both teams have some of the best players in the league.

So I think it's a lot of fun. Coop, despite the turnover, do you feel like the guys you've been through those battles with before have become such veteran guys, such leaders? Like, do you trust the room to get themselves up now? Do you lean on them as much as you used to have to before you guys won the Stanley cups? Some of these guys, you know, your main guy has been with you through some, some long playoff runs. Oh yeah, we have. And no question. It's different.

I don't think it's hard to explain, you know, you come as a coach and you're new and everybody's trying to find their way with each other, but I think, I don't know what the number is. You know, Stammer just got his thousandth point last night. I bet you I've seen 700 of them. You know, like, we've been

together like a long time and so you know, Hedman the same and you started like adding up Kuchutra's years and points and all these guys our core has been together so it's you know like it's like family members and so there's a lot of trust that goes into you know do what we do now you know do i have to come in and put my foot down there's no question um they're hockey players and sometimes they stray off course but this group know, especially with the winning and what we've done in the past, you know, going to three straight finals,

there's a belief in the room that we know what we have to do. And like I've said many times before, it's about getting into the playoffs. You've got to be in the top eight in the East. It doesn't matter if you come first or wherever it is. Like last year, all four teams we played in the playoffs had over 50 wins. Was it a grind? It was. But you can still find your way, but if you don't get in,

then you have no chance. And that's, you know, probably our main focus is just we got to get ourselves into the playoffs. Just want to talk a little bit about Stamkos and, you know, the fact that you've seen, you know, almost all of his points, as you just mentioned and a thousand and the emotion uh off the bench that we saw last night and just how he's really evolved

for me he's just gone like right through the roof the way i look at him and the last few years more so the second stan Stanley Cup than the first one because we know that the injury was tough for him in the bubble. But, man, oh, man, has this guy evolved into – the status for me is moving in towards that Stevie Eisenman type of captaincy. Yeah, he really has. And I've had a front row seat to watch it. But you think about – you know, just think about ourselves.

Like, you're a different person at 30 than you were at 20. And just what the knowledge and what you go through, not only on the ice and what you see as a hockey player and the kind of they've been there, done that, I've seen this before, but just your life. Like, I, you know, Samuels, I've watched him, you know, grow up and turn in front goal from a boy to a man. And now he's got kids, a wife, family.

Like, his whole life is completely transitioned. And then, you know, with the winning that came with it and, you know, all the struggles he had, whether it was, you know, the broken leg in Boston and was that 13 or 14 when that was, to, you know, the knee incident he had in Detroit a few years later. And he's had a lot of stumbling blocks.

And he still got to 1,000. And he's still, like, you know, kind of in his prime. So pretty impressive how he's fought back. But I think a lot of that mental challenge has kind of evolved him into his leadership role and not having to be like that thought of, I've got to do everything. And he's really, like I said, he's just grown over the years

and just been a heck of a captain here, especially since in the last few years. Coop, I imagine a hard thing to do in your line of work is to take something away or some opportunity away from someone who's had it before. I'm thinking here about Victor Hedman on the first power play unit. I know here they talk about Morgan Riley and Rasmus Sandin,

who should be on the first unit. I see Mikhail Sergachev has really grown up and taken strides and now getting more of that opportunity. Is that change strictly about what Sergachev has done and how he's grown as a person and player? Well, it's a little of everything. Hedy's our guy. There's no bones about it. He's been the guy.

He's leading the way. But the way our decor has changed and the way Sergei's evolved, putting him in some of these situations isn't a bad thing. You know, is this going to stay like this forever? Probably not. And Hedy knows that. I've talked to him about it. But it's given other guys opportunity,

putting them in situations, too. And, you know, there was a while back, our PP probably wasn't having the success we thought we shuffled the deck a little bit and now it's having some success and you know at some point it's going to falter again and we're going to shuffle the deck again and that's part of what our job is as coaches but you know heady i've talked to him all the way through this and heady's like i said he's the the guy when crunch time comes, Hedy's going to have the puck in his hands.

But it shows his growth, too, of saying, yeah, this is no problem. But he wants to be back. He wants to be in these situations. But he's going to have to be a teammate. And like I said, it's better to put guys in these situations now than have to panically do it later. And nobody's been in these situations before. So it's worked out well so far.

Just, yeah, and we know what happened. Ryan McDonough's gone. Phillip Myers, I think, is on waivers. Just the overall different feel you have for this blue line and feeling like it's a new unit, but it's not. Like, how do you feel about your blue line so far overall, and could there be some more tweaking? Well, I like our growth.

There's no question about it. But you start the year, it's different. Jan Ruda was Petty's partner for many years, and he kind of seems to be the forgotten guy that nobody talks about, because everybody talks about how McDonough had to leave. And so, you know, it's just little tweaks here and there, and guys have been given different opportunities.

And, you know, Cole has come in and done a great job for us, and Fleury's come in and done well for us. And, you know, we've and flurry's come in and and done well for us and you know we've had um bagojan come in he barely you know he was a playoff casualty because of his injury and so he couldn't play for the first 20 plus games and and so you know myers chipped in and foot had a bigger role and you just keep going down the line um that's a tough position to play. And so guys have to learn new systems. And so I think we kind of hung in there. We've had some growth.

And I think we're seeing some dividends so far. Believe me, we are not a perfect team. But we're definitely a better team now than we were opening night. You guys made some bets with your roster on some guys who you know i don't want to say hadn't had huge success but looked like they will i'm talking about brandon haggle here he comes to you guys last year in the regular season has seven points in 22 games this year uh seven goals 17 points in 23 games looks like he's really kind of found his fit with you guys um tell us about his evolution from from last season to this year well so when hags i think julian did a heck of a job you know pulling him in you know obviously

salary cap and things like that have come into play he had to term on his contract and no people i think have looked at that trade and say wow we gave up a ton but you know what we got a heck of an nhl player that that has been on the cheap for us and really produced. When he came to us last year, we had a different team. We had Andre Palat up there playing with Cooch and Point.

We needed some guys that were going to grind out, were going to check, were going to have to play against top lines and maybe scoring, which you know every player wants to do. Maybe that's not going to be against top lines and maybe scoring, which you know every player wants to do. Maybe that's not going to be at the forefront of your game, but winning is. His checking game really, really evolved last year. Maybe I, as a coach, knocked out a little bit of his offense just because of the situation I put him in last year, but we've given him this

opportunity to play with what I consider two of the best players in the league, and he has really blossomed. I think when he was in Chicago, he had run playing with Patrick Kane and Debrinket and all those guys that kind of have similar mindset as some of our offensive guys, and so he knew how to do it. It's just plugging him in the role and good on Heggs for just being able to adapt to any situation. We're talking to John Cooper, two-time Stanley cup champion with the Tampa Bay lightning,

a coupe Sorelli's Anthony Sorelli's coming off. So shoulder surgery off. I are not a chance. He's missing Saturday night leaves hockey night in Canada. I don't make those decisions. Give us a scoop, Coop. I put the guys on the ice.

I don't put them in the lineup yet. How much have you missed them? Well, he's one of those players, and everybody has him, that guys bring teams into the fight in different ways. And Tony's one of those players, and I think you saw in the playoffs last year, he can be a pest to play against.

He's as honest a player as you'll ever see. He doesn't cheat the game um so it's hard on players and he can make it hard and so he's just one of those guys that does all those things that you know sometimes other players won't do uh he's been really good in a penalty kill for us and and so of course we've missed a player like that but i look where we are in the standings and you know we've kept our uh head above water here and you know whenever tony comes back um you know he's going to be a welcome addition to us because anytime you can add a depth player i think 31 teams other teams in

league be lining up that at tony sorelli at some point uh last one for me coop we appreciate your time here um just wanted to get your thoughts on the toronto maple leafs evolution the um you guys had a few years where you led the league in goals four and then didn't translate to playoff success uh that kind of backed off you kind of became a more well-rounded team and the leafs this year are not scoring goals at the rate they have in the past but still having success do you think in these situations they're intentional decisions or a product of your roster? Is there something, you know, coaching to do with those changes in style? Probably a little bit of everything.

Okay. You know, Sheldon, he's been there for a while. He's got a good grasp of what his team does. I mean, let's be honest. Like, that series could have gone either way last year. You know, we were just fortunate for us. We won the series, but they were right there with us. And I actually kind of marvel a little bit of what has gone on of late

because of all the injuries they've had on the back end and at goal. And so the organization has showed some true grit and depth to be able to keep winning at the rate they're winning. Yeah, maybe they're not winning the games, you know, 7-5, but the goal is to win. And winning 2-1 probably bodes a little well and puts you in situations

to win 2-1 when it counts in the playoffs. So pretty impressed with what the Leafs have done so far. Like I said, hopefully it'll be a fun game tomorrow night. One more for me too, Coop. You had a much earlier look at Mitch Marner at the World Championships,

and he's coming in with a nice little consecutive point streak. How do you guys shut that down tomorrow night? Well, actually, when I saw that, so you're focused on your own team so you're really not focused a ton on what's going on the rest of the league until your teams are coming up to play and so i had a good chuckle and um i could see you know i told eddie oh i said well i see siddler on that list but i was like eddie that's impressive what are you doing there eddie yeah like the look the list of tor Toronto Maple Leafs on there,

and I was like, wow, Eddie, that's impressive, buddy. So, yeah, we had a good chuckle about that. But good on Mitch. He's a hockey player. I've said it for years, and I'll keep saying it. And so I'm not surprised that he's doing that, and I'd expect at some point we'll be having the same conversation at some point with

being Austin Matthews. They've got a couple of elite players. Actually, they've got a bunch of elite players, but I'm not surprised that Mitch is doing that. We're looking forward to tomorrow night's game. We really appreciate your time. We wish you all the best of luck. Okay, boys.

John Cooper, head coach, Tampa Bay Lightning. They're going now. I think they're way too smart to just blow their brains out during the regular season and think that they need to catch Boston. It's so funny hearing him talk about playoffs. He's like, we just got to get into playoffs. We're trying to get into playoffs. It's like we're all just like you're Tampa Bay.

You're going to be in playoffs. A vintage Cooper. I gotta be honest. I have a bit of a crush on Cooper. I think he's the best coach. We've got 82 exhibition games. Yeah. We're just practicing for when the season starts.

Even if the Leafs go in there and blow them out or even if it's the other way around he won't care no but tampa finds a way to beat the leafs 6-2 he's the type of guy that says don't read anything into a they're missing their top 3d a december even if there was full lineups yeah you're right he's still the guy that said that would go oh my. You're excited about that? December 1st game. Yeah.

But what an unbelievable answer to the Sergeyev-Hedman thing where he's like, you know, Hedman has one goal, I think 10 total points after having 85 points last year. And he goes, Hedy's our guy. Hedy's going to have the puck and a stick when it matters the most. You know, Sergeyev's running out there on power play one and having great success and he's like i know where my bread is butter boys you know what i'm starting to really watch is that that little bump pass from or that fake and then bump pass to brady point in the slot from the top yes from headman there yes oh they're so good with that i mean kucherov's nasty off the field. The best playing player in the league.

Starting to really warm up for them. Yeah. And points back. He battled. We watched him in the first round last year. Had some major, major injuries, but he's starting to feel it right now. I mentioned Robertson has that sweet spot beside Tavares and Marner. Yeah.

How about Hagel's spot beside Kucherov and point? Yeah. It's not a bad spot. Yeah. I hate how much I love that guy. I know. Breaks my heart. Shouldn't like him that much.

And hey, quickly to go back to our goalies for Team Canada. We forgot the obvious starter. No. Matt Murray. Oh. We'll see if he's still in one piece in in 2025 buddy it's as good as anybody in november there you go november cup winner going he's going when he's going he's going he's going he's going logan thompson darcy kemper and matt murray we're going to break when we're going we're

going to break up next following john cooper our doug mclean it's friday i bet you he's just in a what kind of mood would you think he'd be in today i don't know i fear doug in general so whatever it is i'm afraid well we're gonna find out after the break doug mclean. Stick around, everybody. Real Kipper and Bourne. This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590, The Van. This is the part of the show where it really falls off. We bring in Doug McClain. Now, Mac, we just had John Cooper on, one of the greatest coaches in the history of the game,

according to Sammy. History of the world. History of the world. According to Coop. According to Coop. Sorelli's coming off injury. I try to kind of smoke him out a little bit on whether he'll play tomorrow night. And he says, no, no, it's up to the doctors.

You know, I don't do that. I don't go there. I don't touch that. And I get it. Like, you know, even your era as coach and general manager. But you can't tell me for one second, once it got really close from a day-to-day or an hour-to-hour, that you didn't make the call. You didn't tell somebody, you're in?

I would never do that. But I remember our second year, the training camp after we drafted Nash, and he had such a great rookie season. And the next year, maybe the year after, I don't know what it was, but first day of training camp, he has a high ankle sprain. And I went down to the dressing room and Nasher, you know how painful a high ankle sprain is.

You two ex-jocks would know that. Of course. And Nasher puked. He was in so much pain. And then I puked because Nasher was in so much pain. And then I puked because Nasher was in so much pain. So, you know, you never push a guy. But I used to ask the trainer a lot, when's he going to be ready? But I'd never ask the player.

I just, you know, you just can't do that. And you know what? Most NHLers, they want to play so bad. Most of them want to play so bad most of them want to play so bad and today even more so because because of the money involved you know they don't want to lose their jobs but that's your superstar there must have been a few players over your career you said like what is wrong with that guy get in there well when guys would flunk the concussion protocol test i would say i'm not sure you'd pass it even if he didn't have one you know no you never you never you never got involved with

injuries ever as a you know i mean we'd talk as a staff and we'd talk, you know, to the trainers, but you would never pressure a player to play. Never. And I had some guys have to, I remember poor Steve Hines, you know, had bad concussion problems with us in Columbus and had to retire. And, you know, we had traded him and then the concussion problems came back. And I mean, poor Steve, I mean, it was tough on him at the end of when he retired so you never and you know that kipper from from your concussion history you just you can just

never question a player about an injury i never would never would don't you think there's some conflict there with like if you're on the medical staff your entire job is to get people back healthy but not have them come back too soon. That's how you get fired. It's just having them come back too soon and they get re-injured. So the incentive for the medical staff is to keep guys out as long as possible. Yes, and keep getting two free season tickets. I mean, keep staying employed and not bring someone back too soon.

And get your free tickets. So is there not frustration for a coach to be like, hey, could he come back, though? You know what? The trainers have an unbelievably challenging job because they're caught. And they're caught. You know where I had the problem? The trainers and the doctors used to be into it more than anybody because the trainers would be, you know,

the doctor would be stalling versus the trainer stalling in lots of cases, you know, and the trainer would be frustrated with the team medical staff. But I never, you know, I don't recall even in, you know, in my 20-plus years in the league, trainers and coaches and management being an issue they were always there was always a great relationship because i knew i knew how hard they worked and how honest they were and how they had the player they had the players uh health as a real priority and they should leave so i never really had an issue i never really did mac leaves uh uh

going into tampa bay on a on a real nice run here it looks like tampa bay is playing a lot better a little bit more consistency uh is there a chance that uh you know you you overanalyze a game like this in early december or is this uh truly a good measuring stick for you watching the Leafs? No, I think it is. And I was thinking the other night watching them, you know, the way they played. And I think back to when Morgan Riley get hurt and buzzing out and the injuries they've had on the back end with Ben and so on.

You think, you know, is this a blessing for this group that finally Keith can get it through them, that you've got to play a total team game? You've got to play, you know, all three zones, and you've got to play battle defensively. I know the goaltenders have been good and have made good saves and, as you said, not let in bad goals, but I think they're playing a much better all-round game

than they've played all year and for a couple of years. So maybe it's a blessing in disguise that with losing Morgan Riley and a couple of guys, they really said, hey, we've got to play the type of hockey that's played at playoff time right now. And they've done a good job mac i was fascinated you know by the idea of having veteran players who can lead they've been there before and how much a coach is able to lean on these guys and i mentioned that because the leafs have some guys who've been through six playoff series without success we just talked to john cooper who

said sometimes he still has to come in and put his foot down how do you walk that line as a coach between putting your foot down with people who are men who've been through it and probably don't feel like they need to hear it you know what it's it's really funny I mean I you know what I remember calling Bernie Federico into my office when I was an assistant coach and going over some things. And and he started to cry. And I'm thinking, oh, my God, I just made I just made Bernie Federico cry. So I always used to. I mean, I used to. I'm thinking, Bernie, like I didn't make him cry. It was just it was it was a frustration cry, you know what I mean? He was just so frustrated by what I was showing him on the video that he just, he was an emotional guy, you know?

And I remember when I'd give guys hell in my office, whether I was a coach or GM, and I used to be worried because guys get emotional. And, I mean, I've had a lot of guys cry in my office, and it made me feel terrible, you know. I felt like I was back teaching high school, you know. So you have to – but you know what? It's the way it is.

You just – and one thing about the greatest thing about a coach that I love is a guy that's a straight shooter and an honest guy. And I know lots of them in the league that can tell a guy the way it is and it's not BS, and I admire coaches that do that. And sometimes those are hard conversations. And Kippy knows this from being a player, and you know it from being around the game your whole life that that's what players want and coop when he says that that's what he's being

is he's being honest with them whether they're a veteran or they're a kid and i love that about certain coaches to read my uh mitch marner article in the toronto this week? Oh, my God. Like, seriously. Is he your nephew or what? Oh, my God. Not you, too. What? Not you, too. Related?

These guys have been killing me all week. I know why you did it. And nobody else knows this, but I know why you did it. Because you're such a Leafs fan. You're trying to prop them up that maybe he'll score in the playoffs this year. Oh my God. You too. Hey, Mitch Marner. I, I mean, I have really enjoyed watching him play and I I'll tell you what, I was watching the game the other night when he had like three chances to get the extra point, you know, for the record.

And, I mean, I love the unselfishness of him. I love the hockey sense, the pure talent, the love of the game. I love to see this kid have success at playoff time. And I know what you're trying to do, kissing up to him. I get it. I'm just for the underdog, the little engine that could. He's making $11 million. The little engine makes a lot of money.

It's a nice train. All right, Mac. I would love you to write an article at playoffs about him. i would love you to write an article playoffs about them i i would like it all right all bets are off game one that's for sure oh my god seriously we're through we're through american thanksgiving are you a big believer that uh we've we know who's going to be in the playoffs now? Well, I've got the top six in. I just look. I just follow the East.

I don't pay any attention to the West anymore. It's like it's such a... You go to bed at 10 o'clock. We understand. No, yeah, I know. And it's not even comparable for me. So I love Edmonton and watching them, Calgary. But I really focus on the East, and I'm sitting there looking like the top six,

the top three in each division. I think the Islanders are getting in. I think Jersey's getting in. So there's a couple teams not getting in from last year. So I'm looking, and I'm thinking, okay, just a minute. It's going to be Pittsburgh, Rangers. Pittsburgh, I think, get in, and I'm saying Rangers, Florida, Washington. One of those three may be lucky to get in.

One of those three. And that keeps – I got Detroit out, and Caps, when they get Wilson back, Backstrom, I mean, are they going to be able to get it going? I'm a little worried about them. I thought they'd be better, but I know they got tough injuries. So I think, I mean, Florida Rangers, Washington, Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh, I think, get in because of Sid and if they can stay healthy.

So I think it's going to be a dogfight. And I mean, the Rangers, like tonight, how big is tonight's game, Ottawa Rangers, for both those teams? Ottawa have got to win to stay in the mix or to try to get back into it and the Rangers have just not been very good a lot of nights. I didn't even like their game in Ottawa the other night

to be quite honest. I need them to win because I like Gerard. It seems like in Ottawa, Mac, it seems like Pierre Dorian's been looking for a defenseman for a gazillion years. Like, are you telling me now over 31 teams?

He didn't have time. He can't find one. He didn't have time to look for it. He did. He found Hammonick. He found Klaymeyers. Don't do that, whatever you do. I'm mad at him.

But anyway, listen, pound in his chest so hard for the Brinkett and all those guys this summer, he didn't have time to look for a defenseman. He needs a right-hand defenseman so bad. It's scary. And he needs a top four guy. JB's looking at me. I want more on this. Yeah, we want more. Like, what's the Philip Myers on waivers? Well, look, Philip, I like Philip a lot. And, you know, I watch him. Yeah, you're a fan. We know that.

He goes to Nashville and was disinterested in the way he played. He goes to Tampa. Now he's on waivers. And why they ever signed him to a two-year deal of $1.4 million, I'll never be able to figure out. So that's a tough one. I know Ottawa were interested in him this summer. I don't see him as a fit there in the top four.

I just don't. I mean, to me, he's a number six guy at best now. For some reason, he's lost interest in the game, and he better figure it me, he's a number six guy at best now. For some reason, he's lost interest in the game, and he better figure it out or he's going to be in the minors. I don't see him as a fit, but I mean, Columbus, how do they... You're talking

about Gabrikov there. What happens with this guy? I mean, they've lost a couple beans out for the year. Wierenski's out for the year. I don't see them trading. They don't trade Gabrikov unless it's at the deadline, and they'll want a minimum first-round pick for this guy. Minimum.

A couple of five. Before I let you go, a couple of $5 million goalies struggling. Cal Peterson put on waivers, not claimed. We watched another tough night for Jack Campbell, another $5 million guy. Like, what do you do mac if if you're if you're edmonton do you dare think about a conditioning stint for him we mentioned cal peterson going down to ontario uh la's farm team we saw matt murray let's not forget matt murray's as good as any goalie in the league

right now in the month of november that guy was in the american hockey league last year right i look it's the jack campbell thing is frightening because he's been hot and cold for a few years for most of his career hot and cold um so what what do you do with jack campbell you let skinner play and let Campbell watch and let the goalie coach work with him and try to figure it out. I don't see sending him to the minors as an option. It's Skinner's job right now to lose as far as I'm concerned. You know, I look at Kenny's team there, and I'm worried about them.

I look at their bottom six. I mean, they played in Chicago the other night. They had 40 shots on goal, and I think their bottom six had one shot on goal in that entire game. I mean, seriously, they've got more problems than Jack Campbell. And that's like, I mean, you said it to me, Kippy, if Dreisaitl and McDavid don't get two or three points each, they don't win, you know? So they've got to figure it out. And Speck, I mean, I feel terrible for Mark Spector because he's dying.

He's dying. He gets so mad at them before he writes his article when they lose that it's just hilarious to read. So anyway. I don't know. Do me a favor. If you're ever telling that

I made Bernie Federico cry story try not to laugh after you say it it really makes you not a sensitive person I didn't make him cry he just but I don't know why

like I must be miserable or something like that guys used to break down I mean I don't know what. Like, I must be miserable or something. Guys used to break down. I mean, I don't know what it was. It really is weird, you know. It is funny how often in a pro locker room someone comes out of the coach's office like they just got yelled at by mom or dad with, you know, head down mopes and maybe a little moist eyes.

Other than pissing off your parent parent I can't imagine anybody worse than your head coach I'll never forget the day I decided to quit teaching high school I was in the I was in the staff room and I was coaching the junior A team in summertime we lost the night before

4-3 in a tough loss and I was sitting at the table and this teacher come up and you know how they used to put their knuckles out and punch you in the shoulder you know with a stinger and this so I'm sitting there mad because we lost the night before and uh this guy come up and punched me in the shoulder and I flew out of my chair and I pinned him up against the wall and I had my fist cocked to punch him out in the staff room and the women the women and the girl lady teachers were screaming and i thought so i thought oh my god so i went i went into the principal's office that afternoon i said you know jim i said i think i'm gonna take a leave of absence and go back to

university and get my master's and that was the last day I ever taught. So anyway. Some guy came in and punched you in the arm like, that's it. Do you remember the guy? Do you remember what he taught? Oh, no. Jim Hodge. He was an English teacher and he had a heart condition. I mean, what am I thinking about?

You know, like seriously. Anyway, he's a great guy. I felt terrible. Mac punched him in the pacemaker and got kicked out. I didn't punch him. I didn't punch him. I just had the fist up to him and I thought, oh my God, I got to get out of here. I got to either, I got to get in hockey or get out of hockey or get out of teaching one or the other.

So anyway, it's fun. It's official. It's off the rails. We're off the rails. All right. What's up this weekend? Thanks. So it's off the rails. We're off the rails. All right. What's up this weekend? You know, I haven't had a rotator cuff,

so I haven't been able to do a lot of yoga. And the pickleball, I haven't played a lot. But I've been doing just more walking, trying to get back, you know, get my conditioning ready. You know, if you're too hurt for pickleball and yoga, the next step is Aquafit, and then it's over, Doug. Do you like getting in the water? I swim a lot. Anyway, guys, thanks a million.

Oh, no, no, thank you. Thank you. Checks in the mail. Thanks, Doug. All right. Take care, guys. He's like a sleeper lunatic, I i don't know i'd be pretty scared if i was that other teacher that decided i was in the mood to punch doug mclean in the arm

have you looked at the standings long enough to be as confident as mac and jersey and the islanders and your islanders uh i have looked at the standings. Jersey, yes. Islanders, yeah. Washington, though, they're a 480 winning percentage. They had 10 wins in 25 matches. They're not good. Wow. I know they've been hurt, but they're really, really struggling.

Wow. Just losing the presence of Tom Wilson all season long. Yeah. What's that? Give them another four points? I don't know. They're still. Changes their team. What's that? Give them another four points? Like, they're still... Changes their team. What's that?

Changes their team. Changes the way they play. Yeah. Changes the way others play against you. 100%. That was hilarious. Have you ever had an innocuous moment make you fly off the handle? Oh, yeah.

I don't have that kind of temper. I don't... Yeah, I do. You do? Yeah, but... I say you do like I don't know? No. I think I can hold it together from zero till about six and a half, seven. Yeah.

But once I hit seven, I'll go to ten in a split second. Yeah. So what's that? But once I hit seven, I'll go to ten in a split second. Theo, get up off the floor, stop playing with the dog, and go to school. So what's that? That one was about a five and a half, six. Theo was tempting me, though. I think I can make it to nine and keep my voice about the same,

and then it's over. Then it's from an off switch to on. I just don't do it to beer league officials. That's the only time I don't use the temper. You are lenient. Yeah, I try my best. I feel bad for those guys. They take a beating every Sunday and Monday night.

I will say. Most of them do. They take a beating. They probably get, what, 40 bucks to do the game or something? I imagine probably. Are they young? Are they like mid 40 guys older guys it's a it's a pretty big mix but i would say like the cap is around 50 and it would start around 30

there's not any like really young kid today says i want to go and referee a men's league hockey game tonight i just you know you got to do a job like Thank God we have them. If you're out there, hey, we love you. We tip our hats off. And thanks for doing it. You know, like, there's no more full-service gas stations to pump. I've been playing. Sammy, are you one to scream at a referee during a game at all? Like, maybe once a month.

I'll give them a little bit of something. But I try my best not to. I'll yell at the other team instead. Yeah, I'm not a ref killer at all. You could shake your head. You can make a sarcastic remark, but to belittle a guy or start hammering on a guy. I got ref friends

for my playing days that I stay in touch with. So, yeah, it's just the frustrating thing is that they don't care. You know, they're not getting paid well. They don't give a crap. They just don't care. A little sleep over that one. Yeah, they're human, too.

They can watch a guy out there and go, at least a little too much attitude out of you. Oh, come on. This is a beer league. Like, what, this is going to be reviewed by Toronto? Hey, buddy, you're not that good. Hey, number 69, you got your fourth penalty of the game. But it's funny, though.

Now I've been playing for almost 10 years in Toronto in terms of in all the different leagues and whatever. You know. I see a lot of the same guys. You know what makes them tick, and you know when to lean on them and when not to. It's a very similar relationship that guys have with the ones in the NHL. You know how to lean on them, how to, and whatever.

It's fun. Great community of refs in Toronto. Love it. Love that they still do that. We'll take a break now. We've got Dave Nones, former general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. We'll get his thoughts on the current team, including what's going on in Vancouver,

the relationship he had over the years with Luongo as well. I want to get into that with him. And then are we going to take some questions from social media? Yeah, text us. Text us at 1-800- 590-590. No. I don't know.

What is it? 590-590. Yeah, so after we have known us on, we got a couple. We got to do a little Jack Campbell talk more, continued. And then we're going to do some texts. So text us, 590-590. You can comment on YouTube. Make sure you mention me so that I'll

see them and we'll do some comments and texts. Sounds good. Still plenty and more on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. Also, rate and review on all the platforms because that helps us stay employed. Does it really? I assume. What happens if they say we suck? That helps

us? If they rate five stars and say you suck, we're fine. Really? Oh, yeah. We just need the stars. Let her rip, everybody. We're back after these words. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590, The Van.

All right, we're waiting on Dave Nona, former general manager of the Leafs. I think he was with Anaheim for the last little while, but I don't think he's part of their organization anymore. We'll get him on. I've got to tell you something. I've known Doug McClain a long time. I don't know where he goes with his stories. I don't know if it's supposed to end up being funny

or it's going to be like, you know, there's a message at the end. There's a moral to the story. It's like that. You ever watch Planes, Trains and Automobiles when Steve Martin looks at John Candy? He's like, your stories have none of that.

That's the kind of way I feel when I talk to Doug McClain. I feel doug feels obligated to impress you with anything just here's my story take it or leave it that is 100 true all right let's welcome in dave nonis uh dave how are you uh we know you you spent the last little while in anaheim's organization uh if i stand corrected uh you're a free agent a ufa right now i am i am i'm uh i'm turning to the UFA right now? I am. I am.

I'm turning to the dark side right now a little bit doing some media. Welcome aboard, my friend. Where are you now? Where are you making home? And what are your thoughts on the next little while here? Yeah, I live in Newhire just north of boston so i'm in a pretty good spot for seeing college games and getting to boston for the bruins uh it's it's been all here for a little while and my my wife's from this area so it's worked out well dave we uh are a toronto maple

leaf show uh obviously you spent some time here, and you know the market very well. It hasn't been, I guess, I don't want to say it hasn't been successful here, but they haven't got out of the first round over the past couple years. What are your thoughts on the evolution of this Leafs team over the past five, six years of this core?

Well, they took a different direction, obviously, with how they kind of put the team together, and I still think that the window is open for them. It's not like they're never going to get out of the first round. But when you put all your money and not all, but a lot of it into four or five players, it makes things difficult. With that said, those players have all pretty much performed. And, you know, there's a lot of naysayers early on this year that it just isn't going to work.

And, you know, that Western swing that they started on wasn't the best for them, but they stuck together. And it seems like a very resilient group. You know, can you win with a structure like that? It still remains to be seen. But I think that they have a very good hockey club. And I think that if the goaltending can hold up, which has been very good, it looks like Kyle's pushed the right buttons there for two guys that have starting numbers right now.

And if that defense can hold up as well and get healthy, I think that there's a good chance that we can get out of the first round. Dave, looking back at the various teams that you've been involved with, the whole process between training camp, American Thanksgiving, trade deadline, and how much do you think that you know your team and what it needs and how can it alter at times during the regular season? Because the Leafs have had a great November and perhaps the feeling of going into January and February might be a little different than what you thought of earlier.

And of course, this is leading to the temptation of bettering your team at the trade deadline and then factoring the assets you have to do it. But how did that work for you over the years well i started kipper when you were playing so things were a lot different now than they were yes that's true and you probably remember you know you started training camp and you kind of saw what you had and then you know after 10 or 15 games and i've said this to a few people i remember pat quinn my first year in vancouver you know after 10 or 15 games and i've said this to a few people i remember

pat quinn my first year in vancouver you know he said let's give it 10 games and see how we are and then we'll if we have to make changes we can't that's not possible anymore it's really hard to change your team you can you can shuffle the deck a little bit but in terms of really improving and making trades it's very difficult because of the cap system um So for Toronto, do I see them trying to better their team? If they're playing at a 700 clip and they can make their team better by spending some assets, I think they'll do it. But it's very difficult to make changes between Thanksgiving and the deadline unless you're a team that didn't expect to be good

and all of a sudden you had some cap space available. But teams that were thinking that they were going to be contenders, almost all of them, if you look at the payrolls of those teams, they're operating with fumes. You're either an LTI or you're at a million bucks or less. So making those trades are more difficult than they've ever been. But I think that the teams that are at the top will continue to do it. I think Boston, they've done it the last couple of years.

I think they will do it. I think that the teams that have a chance, really think they have a chance, and their window is either starting to close or it's on its way, I think those teams will try to get better at the deadline if they can. Speaking of trades, we were talking before you came on earlier in the show about a guy you traded for and roberto luongo guys in the news lately hockey hall of fame not too shabby had a lot of success in vancouver we were debating here were you in toronto at the time when it was rumored that he was trying to come here and were you a part of that? Yes, I was. Yeah.

Yeah, and what was the process like back in that day trying to make that happen, or the complications? You were close, were you not? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I had a lot of time for Roberto. When I traded for him at Vancouver, I wouldn't say he single-handedly changed the direction of our team, but he was a really big part of it,

and I saw what he could do to a franchise. I think the first year that I had him in Vancouver, he strung together 47 wins. It's a hell of a season in this day and age. So I had a lot of time for him. I would have liked to have added him. The asking price was not really terrible, but it was too high given his contract. That contract, I remember Roberto at that trade

deadline day, it was over. The only thing he said was, my contract sucks. Because it wasn't just us that didn't trade for him. It was every team in the league. That's a very good goalie to pass up on. That contract was structured very poorly. It had penalties associated with it. If we would have taken him on, you know, the Leafs the last three years would have had cap hits because of the way his contract was structured.

So he was close to coming. You know, looking back now, do I think he would have made a difference for us? I think definitely that year, you know, that was the year we lost to Boston. I think he would have been a difference maker there. But long term, it wouldn't have been good for the franchise, as good of a player and good of a person as he is. Okay, let me remind you, you're on the dark side now.

We want details of the trade. Well, in terms of what they were asking for? Yes, exactly. You know what? I can't remember the exact pick, but it was a pretty high pick. And Ben Scribbins, and I think there may have been a third pick in there, a third asset. So it wasn't like we had to give up three or four first-round picks,

but it was the penalty going forward. And, again, it's not just us that turned our back on that deal. four first-round picks, but it was the penalty going forward. And again, it's not just us that turned our back on that deal. It was every team in the league because it was just a difficult contract to swallow. So you, you know, Berkey as well, but you guys got a sample of Canadian major markets, Vancouver, Toronto. What's the biggest difference when you look back on it? Or is it just the same pressure is pressure? Between a U.S. market and a Canadian market?

Between Vancouver and, say, Toronto, the markets, the demands, the pressures, are they a lot more similar than people think? Or is there a different feel out in Vancouver than there would be inonto when it came to expectations or pressure out of the fan base i think they're pretty similar in terms of expectations and you know an interest both have very strong fan bases but i i think you have to put toronto at the top in terms of of not just interest but scrutiny i mean you guys see it all the time. You really can't escape it. Part of that is difficult.

People say they don't listen. It's hard not to listen. I've told people a story before. I used to walk home pretty much the same way every day. There was generally often a homeless man that was on my route.

You know, one day he said, can I ask you a question? And I said, sure. And he goes, can I give you some suggestions on trades that will help your power play? So, you know, when you've got people that, you know, that are unfortunate in terms of their living situation, but they're interested in the hockey team in town, that just tells you the kind of interest that's in Toronto. When things aren't going great, it can be a strain,

but it is the best place to work in this game when the team is winning. Well, so there's intense scrutiny, and you're here from, I think it was 2009 to 2015, somewhere in that realm. Is there anything in that time that the media, all that scrutiny, got wrong in assumptions about deals you made or things that went on with the team? Is there anything that needs clarification? I'd have to go back in my notes. I'm sure there's probably some.

Again, I never really had a problem with the media by and large. I think the media in Toronto is generally fair. There's a few people that I'd say that didn't work hard enough and weren't as informed as they could have been. But I think you can say that about every market. And when you have the number of people that are interested and the number of media that are there in terms of sheer attendance at every event, I think that Toronto's media is very good.

And there's going to be times they're going to be negative and there's going to be scrutiny. That's part of their job. But I never really had a problem with them. But I will say again, the sheer volume of it is staggering when you come from or see what it's like in a U.S. market. I spent the last seven years in Anaheim, and you might have two or three people at morning skate or at a practice in a critical time of the season.

I remember in Toronto, would it be 25 or 30 following a practice? So it is a lot different. But again, that's the best part about playing in Canada is the interest from not just the fans, but from the media. We're talking to former general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs, Dave Nonis. Dave, were you the type of guy that watched American Thanksgiving like most teams are these days and buy into what you see is what you get come springtime?

And if that's the case here, what are your thoughts around the league right now? Well, I think the numbers in the last 10 years, somewhere around 75%, 76% of the teams that are, you know, that are in the playoffs at American Thanksgiving end up making it. You know, and that sounds like a death knell for the other 25, but it also means that there's 25 that are out that do turn it around uh you know i think that good teams generally uh will have a fairly good record maybe not be hitting on all cylinders but if you're if it's a quality team you're going to be within striking distance at american thanksgiving um so i think it's a little bit bit more is made of that than there should be.

But obviously, as the games start to peel off, it's hard to make up 8, 10 points when you get – even within 30 games. That's a lot of games, a lot of points to make up with 30 games left. So I think it's an interesting time to look at your club. But there's two things you have to remember. As I said earlier, even if you wanted to make a huge deal at American Thanksgiving,

it's just not available. It's not available because of the cap for the most part. Teams are going to usually wait and have their cap space, whatever that might be, have it grow to the deadline and then try to make a move. But, you know, some teams that we thought were going to be really good

have struggled. You know, you can look at both divisions, sorry, both conferences, and you've seen, you know, that Calgary hasn't played as well as we thought, and St. Louis hasn't played as well as we thought. But then you've got teams that have been excellent. You know, Seattle has been a great surprise. you know they've planned solid hockey one of the best road records on in the league and in the east you've got new jersey no one expected them to be you know not just the top of their division but i think they're plus 34 35 in terms of goal differential they're playing

outstanding so um someone has to pay the price when you have a team that's unexpected that moves your way up up the standings you know just listening to you mention you know percentages there i was thinking that you'd be the perfect guy to ask about the evolution of the use of numbers for front offices yeah how much of a change has there been in front offices considering i guess advanced stats on the type of players you inquire, the decisions you make? It's definitely moved along since I was in Toronto in particular. We brought Kyle in and he right away brought with him a great knowledge of analytics and advanced stats. I used it quite a bit. There's a lot of questions that I would ask them or him to produce some

background for me. I think it's a useful tool for coaches as well. They're trying to get pairings in the back end that might work better or line combinations. I think it does show you how your team is playing. I think you can relate some of the athletic metrics to old-fashioned scoring it does show you how your team is playing. I think you can relate some of the analytic metrics to old-fashioned scoring chances. A lot of them go hand in hand, forward against.

But in terms of making deals, yes, it's a part of it now. I think it's a real part. It's a legitimate tool to use. And I think teams that are working at it the hardest will get the most out of it. But at the same time,

I think it has to be married with old fashioned, you know, analysis by quality scouts and quality managers. One more for me, Dave, and it lends towards your experience with prospects and the Leafs have one in Nick Robertson. The feeling was that he was ready to make a big step this season.

It temporarily happened, and then it took a couple of steps back. But my question to you, and again, this is just me and my observation that maybe that perhaps maybe Kyle or Brendan Shanahan think a lot higher of maybe a Nick Robertson than his head coach does. And have you ever gone through, you know, Vancouver, Toronto, anywhere you've been and had that where you've had a prospect and you see something in him that maybe the coach doesn't or it doesn't have as much, isn't as patient for him to develop as as you would like.

And does that set up a little bit of a conflict? It can. And, you know, that does happen. I don't think it happens a lot, but it definitely can happen. And the more veteran a coach, the more, you know, he's going to have feelings about the type of players that he wants. You know, if they've had success in the past with a certain lineup or certain type of lineup, you know, that might be a case where they don't want to play a younger player

or give them the opportunity that maybe he deserves or the organization thinks he deserves. And I have had it in the past, and it can come to the point where you end up trading a player that's in the lineup just to make room. That doesn't always sit well with the coach, but if you're not going to play the guys that we need to play, then we're going to make some room by some player movement. And I think that happens quite a few times during the season that no one really talks about or knows, but

where the manager would make a move to create a hole that has to be filled with a younger player. Dave, I need a name. I need a name. Give me a name here. Hey, next week. Hey, great tease man

you're picking up on this media stuff just like that hey Dave thanks for doing this appreciate your time thanks for having me guys take care and I'm coming at you next week you know that right we're coming for that name thanks Dave

I'm going to start going through my notebook this week Dave notice former general manager of Toronto Maple Leafs that was fun Thanks Dave I'm going to start going through my notebook this week Good Dave Nodus Former general manager of Toronto Maple Leafs That was fun Yeah No and it's like money ball right Isn't that the idea of money ball Where they basically in the Oakland A's

They weren't playing the guy The manager or the front office wanted So they said alright Well now you got no one but the guys I want you to play Make the moves Is that baseball money guy ever Win a World Series Nah they got pretty deep with the Nah they lost They lost the teams with the good players to play. Make the moves. Is that baseball money guy ever win a World Series? Nah, they

got pretty deep with the lineup. No, they lost the teams with the good players. They did pretty well that one time. But it bought them some time. Yeah. The New York Yankees with superstars rolled through and beat the brakes off them. Yeah. Pretty good debut for Nona's. I like that. That was good.

That is juicy stuff to me About Luongo And how close it was That is just Okay so What he told us Is that If in fact he got Luongo

I would have been on my way To New York City For game one Against the Leafs 100% Against the Rangers Instead I go to Saskatoon for the Memorial Cup. And can I tell you?

Nothing wrong with the student. You're probably right. You know, you look back at that game seven. You look back at some of those goals that went in to make it 4-4. Hang on to a rebound for us here or there. Now, all of a sudden, you're a bigger Luongo fan than you thought. Listen, God love Luongo. God love James Reimer.

I think Roberto Luongo probably a better goalie love James Reimer. I think Roberto Luongo, probably a better goalie than James Reimer. I think we can all... I think James might say the same. I think we can agree on that one here. But having watched some highlights of Roberto Luongo in big games for the Canucks over the past couple of days,

maybe it wouldn't have been the same. Who knows? So is that the reason why he didn't get his jersey retired? And we know that there's... Yeah, I mean, he said that we're going to talk about Luongo this week being honored with the...

Ring of Honor. What did I call it? The Ring of Circles. I'm not wrong. Rings are circles. You're not right. So just off the top of my head, I'm thinking about retired jerseys in Vancouver. Linden, Naslund.

Stan Smeal. The twins, Stan Smeal. And maybe I'm missing one more. But did you say Linden? I said Trevor Linden. Nasl. But did you say Linden? I said Trevor Linden. Would not. Haslin, did you say that too? I said Haslin.

We should listen to our host. And the twins. Yeah. So Luongo should be there. So are the Sedins already up there? I think so. Yeah, they are. They're up there and they walked out their Hall of Fame buddy and they're like, you're a tier below, though.

You don't get to be there. You're there. And hey, okay, go ahead and make your point, because one of us has to make it. I think he is a ring of honor, not a Jersey retirement guy. They might have got it right. I think they got it right. I really do.

Like, you think, I think Roberto Longo had an awesome career. He's in the Hockey Hall of Fame. But he spent a lot of time in other places well more was he not in florida longer than he was in vancouver for sure for sure the heart of his career the best of his career was all vancouver and his uh is his jersey already retired in florida that's a good question i think they had didn't they have the night last year they did they did have the night last year it might be too divided oh is it i don't know but he played what eight seasons for the canucks total yeah like that's hard to retire a sweater for a guy who played eight seasons didn't win a cup you know like you know what the crazy part is what you just win one and it's a no-brainer. Seven. Yeah, no-brainer. And all day long.

Yeah, they retire your junior number, your minor hockey number. Man, do you remember the trade from Florida to Vancouver? I believe Markstrom was involved. Blockbuster. Markstrom. No, that was the second one. The one from Florida to Vancouver the first time in 2006. Bertuzzi, Brian Allen, Alex Auld.

Oh, the first one, yeah. And a conditional pick in the 2007 draft. Big give up, but they win. They win the trade. Longo's save percentage over those years in Vancouver, 921, 917, 920, 913, 928, 919. Some people were saying, well, Kirk McClain doesn't have his jersey retired. Right.

But that's because Luongo's in the Hall of Fame. I know. I know, but both of them got to game seven. Right. I see. That's all. Yep. And, God, they got smoked, didn't they, on a couple occasions?

But they also won some squeakers. If you have a worse goalie, I think they won, what did you say, Sammy, you won nothing? They won one nothing twice. In the cup final. And they also lost 8-1. It's a weird series. Really weird series.

And then you're at home. In Vancouver, when he was at home, they would win these squeakers, they'd go to Boston and just get pumped. Did they get shut out in game seven? Yeah, they lost 4-0. 4-0. I remember, what's it it Patrice Burr?

And then they burned the town down. Yeah. And Marchand. They just. Listen, okay. I've always had this thought. What would happen in Toronto if they lost a game seven? Game seven of the cup final?

Party? A somber walk home. You're going to have a party when you win game seven in the first round. No, but they lost game seven in the final. You don't think people people maybe punch a window? I think there'd probably be some pissed off. That's a bunch of dumb dummies if you ask me. They'd be so happy for a month and a half.

Oh, come on, Kippy. A month and a half. You told me that you get out of the first round. You don't care what happens. You told me that. Is that true? You care. That's a lie.

He doesn't even know i that's what happens when you turn into a super fan oh god i just yeah it'd be nice to see them went around so luongo goes uh in front of the vancouver faithful takes the mic at the opening of the game last night and says you know i know there's a lot of talk about uh me being up there is in the ring of honor or versus up there and he goes i want you or versus up there. And he goes, I want you to know, I don't care about that. I just,

I'm happy to be here with you and be honored and says all the right Luongo things. Yeah. I thought it was pretty crazy that he addressed, addressed it that head on. Cause the people making the decisions are presumably Rutherford, Alvin, Castingay,

the camera Granato. You know, I assume they're making those decisions and they're at the game aware that he's aware of this awkwardness like it's too bad that there's awkwardness but i think end of the day he's just trying to control like a riot breaking out he's hanging on to the molotov cocktails folks uh but you know he's always now he's he's beloved there. They should hang half his number in Florida and half in Vancouver.

As Derek pointed out to me, for four straight seasons, he played above 70 games. Wow. That's so much hockey. And his numbers are good too, right? 72 games, 75 games, 76 games in 06, 07,7 73 and he also played 60 games one two that sounds to me like that's five times be derrick the sound of a horse that is the he is a career nine nine horses long ago right there he's a career 919 save percentage guy,

and that's 19 seasons, 489, 392, and 124. He played a bajillion hockey games, and in playoffs, 70 hockey games, a 918, just about as good in the postseason. Gold medal with Canada. That's Hall of Fame. For sure. He's a Hall of Famer.

No doubt. And this close to being a Toronto Maple Leaf. And I would have been talking glowingly about him. You would been for sure okay where do you want to do we mentioned uh jason robertson hat trick yeah you're good with that 17 point streak yeah yeah one behind him nobody mentions that do you have 17 games 70 i didn't actually know that i just saw it on the notes yeah um he doesn't play for the toronto maple leaf that's correct yeah and people care andrew walker and you got into it on Twitter today over this. I see a lot of people kind of bristling that it doesn't matter for the points streak. I think it matters because it's on the Leafs and it's a historic franchise.

And he's going for a record. You're saying it doesn't matter? That streak doesn't matter? I think people outside of Toronto, this is a national story. Walker's point was that it's the 40th longest streak in NHL history. But you see a lot of... It's the longest for the Maple Leafs, and they're the Maple Leafs. Yeah, so it matters.

Yeah. Matters to me. Stephen Stamkos gets 1,000 points. How many active players in the NHL do you think have 1,000 points? Great question. Thank you. I'll say under 10. You guys are both

really good. It's 8. That was bang on. Can I name them? Pat Kane. Malkin. Sid. Sid. Ovi. Corey Perry? Oh, for sure. I don't know. do you have a list no oh my god you were looking so like you had the cadbury secret sauce i was ready

recipe oh you can pull it up we all got google for uh how about this cory perry does not have a thousand doesn't have a thousand no how about in nhl history Corey Perry does not have a thousand. Doesn't have a thousand points. How about in NHL history? How many people have hit a thousand points? I got, I got a number for you. Oh, wow. I want to say. Is it a hundred years of NHL history or whatever it's been? I want to say, uh.

Forty? No, it's huge. Fifty? It's, uh. It's in the seventies, right? It is north of that. You're on track. Yeah.

I'm, I'm over a hundred. No. Not over a hundred. Close to a hundred. Very. No. Not over 100, close to 100. Very. Okay. 98. 95. Yeah, I was like, I was going right at 100.

And I thought it was north of 100. 95 people have 1,000 points. That's a really exclusive club. It is. The amount of people that have played in the NHL. And let me tell you something. 1,015, 20 years ago, automatic Hall of Famer. Yeah.

Automatic. of Famer. Yeah. Automatic. Not anymore. Now, Rod Brindamore is winning Selkie trophies with 1,000 points in a cup, and they're like, ah. All right, so it's Off the Rails Friday. I asked her some questions, and I got an Off the Rails question for you guys. No, don't. Let's do it.

I just want to go home for the weekend quietly right now. This is from Puppethead on the YouTube comments. Would the game be better if the goalies had to serve their own penalties, forcing the backup to step in and play? No. It would be another delay, and it wouldn't really affect the game. But how great would it be to have the visual of the goalie going in there and sitting? Just, yeah, with no replacement.

And it gets interesting. I do want to hear the idea, or I don't mind the idea, that why should you get to ice the puck because you took a penalty? Like, you committed a foul, and now you get to cheat? Like, no, you could never ice it. Now you still can't ice it. You got to go less. And I don't think they should get to bring the guy out.

Do I want to see 14 icings in the next two minutes? There'd have to be a delay game penalty or something. Like three icings on the PP and they're in the PK and another penalty. That's the issue. Yeah. I get it. The theory sounds correct. Right.

But the optics would just kill your game. Yeah, probably. I don't think they should come out if they score on the power play. Full two. Yeah, two minutes regardless. Oh my God, the Oilers would be like, yes, let's do it. But then, you know,

you'd be thinking about getting one quick and keeping it out there. It changes the strategy a little bit, no? Yeah. What is this, Jeff Merrick show? Listen, I love you, Jeff, but we don't need to do green ice stuff here.

I like this guy. now the second unit comes out just 10 seconds left let's just start let's like let's not add let's eliminate the shootout oh we're doing it we're doing stuff like this okay all right really here's from uh here's a little derail from johnny ferrari on youtube here's a question why is zach Aston Reese playing over everybody else? Any opinion on that? Over who? Wayne Simmons? Pictures. He's got pictures on somebody.

Oh, come on. He's been good. I'm just teasing. He's been good. Who else do you play? Like Simmons. It's been okay. You can argue for Wayne Simmons.

Everybody's good. Like what is great? What is. He doesn't make mistakes. He doesn't make mistakes. Maybe that's good enough. This is the Leafss thing now they want non-mistake makers i've said this on the show before but kyle dubas has said if he could take the all the fastest guys all the strongest guys all the smartest guys he wants the smartest guys zach seems to stand in the right spot a lot

and i just knocked over a water bottle but you know you know, they want that. He's no Ferrari. No. Like Johnny. But he is reliable. What would you say? He's an Oldsmobile or something. His time on ice, it's very consistent. Is he getting nine a night?

No, 11, 53, 12, 48, 13, 13, 12, 11, 12. See, they're using them. Yeah, like he just kind of plays. Those are good numbers. Well, they're using them. Yeah, like he just kind of plays. Those are good numbers. Well, because he kills penalties. Yeah, that's right. That helps. And he's not scared to put them on late in the period.

And meanwhile, you got a guy like Mulligan who is not on the special teams. I don't even know who's on the Leafs' second power play, and that's not a joke. There is no such thing as a second power play anymore. I know. I hear Engvall's on it. Honestly, it probably is. Something like Engvall. Yeah. Kerfoot. Yeah. Bunting. Bunting. Sandin. is a second power i know your angles on it i honestly it probably is something like angval yeah kerfoot bunting sandin when riley's yeah and they have uh they had the two defensemen

on it for the second unit uh at practice today all right so uh i got another question here for you good um this is from where is it from here oh hey don't you have to ask the same question someone asks you all the time oh yeah the guy you're right maybe i'll ask that question it's from mario car i don't even know if he's on the youtube chat today but he asks every single day to ask me to ask you kipper what do you think about pierre angvall for max domi every day he asked me that. Max Domi signed $3 million for one year in Chicago. Is that his deal?

I don't know what the number is, but he had offered his services to the Toronto Maple Leafs for a lot less. Really? And the Leafs said, no, thank you. Really? So. In the summer, obviously. Yeah.

Wow. Max Domi. Yeah. Would be like the, I don't know, third or fourth leading scorer goals wise. Seven goals, nine assists, 16 points. I think Max would have come in here and just, you know, given them a feel that they still don't have. A little Matthew Kachuk light. Just a little bit of just, you know,

I'm a little goofy right now, so don't piss me off because I can do something, you know. So I don't, I like this. The wires can cross. The wires can cross. The wires can cross. I don't mind at least one guy in the lineup where the wires can cross. You need a squirrely guy.

I'd fight my mom to win another game. Here's the thing, and this is boring pragmatic thinking, but like, Engvall does kill penalties, and he kills them well. And he gets in the way, and he's down the rank, and he's like one of their top PK guys guys listen i i hate watching it every night me too so i'm score a big goal he's a big guy did you see him shirtless with him in the mitch marner video his back has more

muscles than my entire body has ever had there's just something to be said that when you see a hockey club and you see a couple of big guys, it's noticeable. And he's a presence out there when he's just by being big. But I think he's lost some of that. If he can stay involved in the play and not get lost, he can be effective. No question. Yeah. Who tried to fight him in playoffs?

Brandon Hagel and he didn't do it? I don't know. Can you win with Engvall in the playoffs yeah just start there sure yes i mean look but he's what are you saying yes for we'll go through the roster they've won stanley cups what proof do you have i've won previous teams that have won cups they've won nine games in the playoffs with them in the first round yeah i mean the answer the right answer is i don't know that's the right answer not yes well of course it's i don't know till you do it but you look at some of the teams who win cups they've all got a guy or two who you're like oh that guy

won a cup huh yeah well cologne palat no those are guys with a capital g that's not so just give me some guys then because they're not just engvalls that happen to be in the, you know, they play hard. Engvall doesn't play hard all the time. No, he doesn't. I don't know. I can't think of anyone. Everyone who wins a Stanley Cup is a Hall of Famer. Just going back on our conversation about America

and how good they are at hockey, I just wanted to look at their team. Why are we doing that as a theme? Because it's off the rails Friday, and he can do whatever he wants. I got my ADDs kicking in hard. But you think about, we're talking about the forwards, right?

You know, Austin, Eichel, Robertson, Tage Thompson, Kreider, the Kachucks, Hellebuck, and that. That's a good team. Think about their decor. McAvoy, Fox, Trouuba, Slavin, Carlson. Oh, God. Truba's struggling right now in New York.

Canada underdogs. For sure. Hurt, though, you thought. Yeah. Something's going on. I don't think he should be playing. I actually think that we should actually cancel all best on best forever. You're afraid of the USA?

100%. Did we talk Jack Campbell enough for you? He won't be on their team. It's just. Bold prediction. Oh, I thought you meant to the Oilers, not the U of S and A. I watched enough last night, and he just has no physical presence. His body language to me is like sunk.

Shrinking. Shrinking. Pathetic the way I've been planned oh poor who else said that i suck markstrom markstrom came out 13 seconds into the game last night to the blue line to chase the puck down relax man you're a goalie do the goal thing too too too honest now on post-game comments at a goal he's i know well it sounds like you gotta get some peter morazic in him no i'm fine i'm gonna be all right that sounds like sutter gives it to markstrom pretty good behind the scenes i think i think he's markstrom's a beaten man it would not

be fun to be a bad attendee struggling i'm gonna be in carter hart and you gotta go look at torts after the game after you give one up from center ice yeah no thanks soupy you know old campbell there it wasn't just the pucks that went in for me last night i watching that game pretty close every time he touched the puck he's into sight you know milan borian out there just giving pucks away just no confidence right now no confidence at all um through 13 starts this year 7 6 and 0 with a 412 goals against an 872 safe i listen boys early in the year you know i was yeah we know you're all over him we know i've completely flipped i feel awful like i i don't enjoy it anymore like now i look at the box i'm like oh jackie again you wanted thes to not get embarrassed by not keeping him. You didn't want him to fail out of the league in three months.

Yes. It's not happening, by the way. I'm just being dramatic. I don't know. He might need a condition. Does he get claimed on waivers? Oh, not a chance. $5 million goalie league four years less than him

didn't get claimed yeah go get cal peterson his numbers are worse somehow gotta see him turn it around like i and can you make up your mind on edmonton if they're a team that can they look like every other edmonton team over the past seven years where it's like mcdavid andisaitl do awesome things and they win. They don't. They don't. Goal attending is questionable. D's not great.

This is the exact Oilers team they've missed. Evander Kane's so much. Did you see them go down? Yes. That was like. He's not good. Hamstring? Yeah.

Or knee? I don't know. Bad. Whatever it was. They can't put weight on it. They can't defend. No. No interest in it. Predictions. The Fords don't want to do. Whatever it was. They can't put weight on it. They can't defend it. No. No interest in it. Predictions. The Fords don't want to do it.

Predictions. Predictions. Overtime. I'll take Tampa Bay by a goal. In a very good game. Marner sets the points record. Yes. They lose an OT. I'll go Leafies win 4-2. Alright. Our thanks to John Cooper,

head coach of the Tampa Bay Lightning, Doug McClain, former NHL president and GM, and Dave Nonas, who was fun to catch up to, and we'll bring him back next week. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Give us a rating and review, as JB had asked for, and we'll see you all on Monday.

Safe weekend, everyone. We'll see you then.