Real Kyper & Bourne - Locking in on Sundin-Chayka in Toronto

Episode Date: April 29, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee open with the latest on the Toronto Maple Leafs, as reports suggest the team is waiting on Mats Sundin’s decision regarding a potential front-office pairing with John Chayka. Then, they look back on last night's playoff action, including the Bruins' overtime win to keep their season alive. Later, Hockey Night in Canada's Elliotte Friedman (31:25) stops by to shed more insight on the Leafs, what the structure of a Sundin/Chayka combo might look like, where the team would turn if Mats turns them down, and Chayka's fit in Toronto. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, let's get her going for the next two hours. The real Kipprin'Born show. We're live on Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus. Download us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple. Love the chats on YouTube. Are we on YouTube? I don't know. We're coming live, right?

We've got a baseball game. So no, Fenn 590, the fan, right? Fan 590 to fan no We're not on the stream though We're on Sportsnet Yeah so alternate stream You got that right So on Sportsnet 590 the fan

On the website on the alternate stream You got that Alternate stream If I asked you for a million dollars To tell you what the alternate stream is I couldn't do it It's just it's there's two streams And we'll put certain things on one

And one on the other And Do you know what the alternate stream is? Back in the day I used to know how to route them Like I would put things on them And I could click They used to trust me

With stuff around here Yeah Yeah, they've since learned. Yeah. Nick Keprios, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, Jake the Snake Shultz. In about 30 minutes. Elliot Friedman, hockey night in Canada, 32 thoughts will join us. Plenty to get into.

National hour. We'll go to Chris Tarian, of course, former Philadelphia Flyer, co-host of Snow the Golly, and he'll tell us everything we need to know on how nervous the Philadelphia Flyers fans are right now. tonight. There's some three monster hockey. The playoff series just got fun. Yeah. Last couple nights. Really. In the meantime, off the ice around the Toronto Maple Leafs, it's fun too, isn't it, J.B? I'm having a blast. I do. I don't know. What is it that's? I get a kick at all this. Blastworthy for you right now, because I'm not sure if the Leaf fans are at the point where we're hearing all these names for sure, and we'll get into them momentarily with Matt Sundeen and John Chica.

but Sammy what's the feel out there people getting tired of being sick and tired waiting or they want a decision one way or the other what's the vibe

I don't know I hear's what I'll say and I've had these thoughts kind of today and just reading the discourse online and talking to my friends and it sucks how negative everything is around this

process. And listen, I'm a big part of it. I come on here. I'm not exactly a barrel of laughs every day talking about it. I've been making fun of the quality of the candidates for two weeks here. Not making fun, just observing on. Sure. Opining. Sure. I just, I wish I could have a more positive outlook on this. Like, having the name Matt Sundin involved is should be so cool. And ultimately, anyone you talk to is balking at it. Like I just, it just doesn't have temperature. You're just worried about losing mats as a,

no, I just don't you feel, I mean, you guys talk, everybody talks to leaves to you in your life, don't you feel that like the temperature around this right now is not great? The only thing I could say on that is that it's, and I've covered a lot longer than you, typically in these scenarios, when you're talking about the Toronto Maple Leafs,

you're always talking about like what's the best out there and we want them or the link is there. This is so outside the box in terms of a typical process where very, very sought after job is out there. And, you know, the names linked to it aren't the big ones for the first time, maybe in a lot. long time that we're not we're not seeing the cachet names associated to this prestigious general manager's job and people like sammy and and others are a little uncomfortable by it is that just timing that's just kind of bad luck that the year that they happen to make a managerial changes no no i think this is less appeal i think this is strategic on keith pelly's part that he just he's not interested in attacking the biggest most popular name out there.

And I think we could put Doug Armstrong at the top of that list. For sure. He seemed like the most obvious at the time. If he really wanted him, I believe that we would have heard a lot more noise around that name. And it just, guys, it never got there. No. For me anyways, I don't know. We're going to have Elliot on in about 25 minutes.

Maybe he as an insider has different people, different sources, and he can tell me, Kipper, they went down that path, or they, he couldn't get out. They didn't want, whatever the case is, I'm just saying from my perspective, that there's just none of that. And I guess, you know, there's no guarantee that one of these veteran proven names would come in

and it would be so, so much better. But I do think that, given the state of the organization right now, it does just feel, it would feel better to have a steady hand on the wheel. Someone who's run a franchise and knows the ins and outs of the league and has relationships with Bettman and Daly and the other GMs. Like it would feel better if it was like, okay, Armstrong's coming in. Not sure how this is going to go, but I trust that it's going to go very professionally

and all that. I will say right now, I don't know that a Sundeen Chica combo would be better or worse, whatever. Who knows the alternate realities, but it does feel a lot more perilous. It feels like there's less of a safety net than there would be with one of the established name. Yeah, I mean, that's perfectly

said. Just, I think there's a world where it could work out. And I think we'd all, I mean, so I don't think it's really hard to to sort of picture that and sit here and be like, you know what? They hired Matt Sandine and it turned out he was great at it. And John Chica, after all those years off,

learned from his mistakes that he made in Phoenix, and he came in here, and they built a strong team next year, and they were back in the playoffs. Like, they hired a new coach, whatever. All of that feels possible, but nobody wants to have that conversation.

And I don't know why that is. I just, I can't get a positive take from any of my friends about this. I'm trying to, I can't get one. Yeah, to your point, whether or not you're, you're open to Matt Sondin coming in and really learning on the job quickly. Yeah.

Right? Especially if it's in a very important role as hockey operations. And it really, at least it's the sense is that that's out there for him, whether he commits to it or he takes a portion of that. Whatever the case is, ultimately he'll decide. I think there's an acceptance that, okay, it's not the first time someone like that has come in and learned on the job. Stevie Eisenman, Joe Sackick, who am I missing?

Like Ron Francis, a lot of these guys have just come in and taken high-level jobs and managed to hang in there for quite a while here. Now, I mean, Stevie Eisenman took, I think, three years of shadowing Kenny Holland, and that certainly helped him and forget about where the state of Detroit is and the

decisions that he's made, but that's usually the sense is that those type of players come in and they get their feet wet a little bit. The one that is concerning is John Chica, especially when it didn't end well

for him with the then Phoenix coyotes. That one might be a little trickier. So to your point, Sammy,

where it's like, okay, he comes in, he paid it, he paid the price for it. He's been out of the game for five years, for whatever reasons

because he wanted to go open up 80 Wendy's or because he needed time away from it. Maybe the league needed time away from him as well. But we do know that, you know,

he suffered a big penalty. The team suffered a big penalty. They lost a first and second. second rounder because he had conduct unbecoming, you know, with the CBA. And does he get to kind of, does that pick up where he left off? How's his relationship with the league? How's his relationship with other teams, general managers? How do they feel about him?

Like that, that's, that's going to affect those early months of him working. Yeah, you know, like in looking for. some positives about it to for Sammy's point. It's like, okay, you know, he did some of those deferred contracts in Arizona and maybe he'll be someone who's open to thinking more creatively. I talked about how you don't just want to do things cookie

cutter. Maybe he's just going to be looking for an angle. And I think you got to have someone who's looking for an angle and obviously he's a smart guy. Enough people have been like, all right, this guy knows what he's doing, that they bet on. But yeah, it's the one thing is like you look at his past

in the league or even just his career history. And it's tough to, you hear some people say, well, he's got GM experience. And it's like, well, but it went bad. Like they were a bad team.

By the end of it, they were capped out. To your point, there's some things went wrong. So like, I could go somewhere and do a bad job. Yeah. It's like,

it's not experience. If it goes bad, if you haven't figured out how to do it right. So, yeah, we're kind of crossing our fingers going. Hopefully he learned some lessons. Hopefully with more resources

and he can execute some of these ideas, Maybe he has. You saw the brain scan stuff that was in an article from the other day. No. Okay. I didn't see that. What is it?

It's at the end of a Jason Botchford article from 2020, where he just, you know, he used to write those articles like the, what are they called, Pravies or whatever. And the best story at the end was one of the things that they were looking into, which Ica wanted to do was like brain scan stuff, like MRIs. And you could figure out which brains are more, you know, he's forward thinking. He was looking at some different angles of doing things is all I'm saying. I'm saying there's some, you read the article. Okay.

I'll catch that one. So. Guys, what do you want me to say? If they actually read the three of ours, what would they see like a P? Smart. Smart. I think the big part of what Frege is kind of reported and what's been out there. And we're going to have Frege on at 430.

so it would be good to talk to him about this as well. But like the if Sundeen says yes, then it's going to be a Sundeen and Chika parent, okay? If, like what's the if? Like the fact that, like I said this yesterday, but it's drove home the point and even more for me, boys, what's the pause here? Like I understand that it's a big move and all that,

but a massive role with the team that you're below, like shouldn't that just be a snap? yes decision? Doesn't that concern you? I'd rather I'd rather delay to make the right decision than yes I want to do it then it's... To hurry and make the wrong one, right?

To your point, yep. You know, I saw it. That's it, Sammy, like... But if there's any indecision in his mind, well, he's being thoughtful. Okay. But also, one way or another,

he's getting a crash course on the layers of this machine called MLSC. I wonder what he thinks of Chica. Like, is that at all relevant? Like, this is, we talked about how we had to hire an order. Hire a president who hires a GM, who hires a coach. Otherwise, you got people going, well, I didn't hire this guy.

And then it doesn't work. So that's a concern. One thing I do like with the Mats thing, I saw Mike Johnson talk on Overdrive yesterday maybe, talking about Mats and how he has some strong opinions. And some of the things around the least. and their reputation and what he does want to change. And so I think he is a guy who wants to do the right thing by the organization.

So I like that about him. But yeah. Meaning what? Well, I think there were stuff where we talked about are they, you know, nickel and diming certain things. And I think that MJ implied that that's something that he doesn't think is very maple leafy. So maybe that's something he would address. I don't know. Like it's.

But is that making them into a? a business guy now? Well, this is, well, hey, is he crossing the line to business? If you're going to name of vice president of hockey operations, that's not a, like a player personnel title. That is businessy. Also, vice president is strange to me.

Yeah. I think it's, this is all, buddy, it's been strange. I think it's, what day is it, what week is it, what month is it? This is, it's all been strange. It is strategic by Keith Pally and MLSC to start putting things out there, like getting an opportunity to wave a flag or have dinner in the penalty box. And

yeah, I get what you're saying for sure. Like, you know, at what point does that cross into, it's affecting my hockey ops? And I understand that you guys have a business to create. And you guys want to give

experiences out to the leaf fans that they normally wouldn't get. So you got to respect that as well, but... Part of the fan, whatever program. It's interesting where that line is drawn and how does it affect the hockey club.

So I don't, I think it's tricky. I don't know that it affects the hockey club in a meaningful way, but I think it affects the brand. I think it affects the hockey club. Certain things. And I do know from you know, a few

players and a few agents of players that the social media thing is at times it can be bothersome right to be a player here to be a player here and the demands on we need you to talk about this this and this and you step on the ice and you got five questions to ask and it gets a little tiresome for the players what does this have to do with Matt Sandine and John Chaker though

well that's where you know at time a general manager or a hockey ops guy can tell the social media to, like, you need to back off of my players a little bit. They're just, they're inundated right now and it's just it's getting... You mean like the ones where they

walk out and they're like, what? Yes. Yes, I am talking about. Every single franchise in every single sport does that. No, but it's a lot here. No, no. It's more here than it is typically in other organizations. There's a big demand for social media. That's why

the money is for. You play for the leagues. All right, but you know what, Sam? People care about it. Like, there's more people care so they want more access. Like, it's about the fan. This is exactly part of the problem where it's like, I don't really care about this stuff. You guys really care about this stuff.

I'm not opening Instagram being like, oh, what do they, what do they think is, like, about this or what? I don't necessarily care about that, but tons of younger fans and people do care about that. But the players do at times and they want to do their part and they feel like they are doing the part, but sometimes they get asked a lot. And...

Is Gen Z the laziest generation? You know, what was the latest... What was the latest HBO or Amazon... Blueprint or whatever? Yeah, whatever. I mean, Austin didn't participate because it just got a little too much for him. I think there's a big difference between the Amazon thing

and them asking, like, what has more... I'm just using it as an example of the demands, Sam. Okay. And then sometimes you can have a few players going, can we just not have a camera in our face going out to a Tuesday practice? Like, is that too much to ask? Right. And someone needs to be there to relay the message on some of the players.

I'm not making a big deal out of it, Sam. I'm just telling you that this is the marketplace, where those demands are there. But when the new people get hired and Matt's, Matt was on our show a year ago, you have. With his book? With his book.

You have a relationship with Matt's. Can you have him get Austin Matthews on our show once? Because our show's been five years now and we're at zero. The captain of the Leafs for sports net on the drive time show. Okay. Well, once would be good. One seems reasonable to me. We never had,

we had Tvarez. Yeah. That was a 500 goal? Yeah. We had all of Recman Larsson. Dude, we had first year, I want to say we had Marner. We had William Dielander. I think he was in an amusement park.

I wasn't here that day. I don't think we did. We should get our owners here at SportsCat to talk to their owners. And see if we can get them on. Anyway, that's sarcastic and just griping. But yes. I get your point. There is a lot to do here.

It's a big market. Ernie Clement just had a two-run home run. He hit it a thousand miles an hour. He did. Okay, squirrel. Sorry, I'm back, I'm back. Mike Fuda. Futa.

Futea. Yeah. Fute. Futes. Futes. Was in the running and apparently went on the show today. His show, of course, with Matt. The fan hockey show.

The fan hockey show and spoke of the experience. Now, has he ever been a part of a winning organization in the past? I think he's got a Stanley Cup ring. Does he? Or two? Or two? Yeah. Yeah.

And I don't think Scott White did or. or John Chica has one. It would have been nice to have a guy who, I mean, a little, whatever. But I'm disappointed if he was involved. Did you pull any sound or no? I think we got some of it. Derek, do you?

Let's clear this. I made a conscious choice. I was asked to interview for the Leaf's position, general manager position, and probably I don't know what it was three, four weeks. Went through the process. Did the Zoom call. Was not going to get into the,

process who was there was very positive growing up a leaf fan it was one of the most humbling experiences to be even included as i had said before when i was with los angeles i got flown in to meet with brenan shanahan but they didn't have permission to hire me not that they would have anyways they hired lula amorello so being able to be even considered as massive so the process has gone on i have continued to do this and um like this kind of speaks about so anyways i have my face to i had a face-to-face interview face-to-face interview this past week i guess it was a couple hours was awesome and then the process unfolds

and I got a call last night just saying that respectfully great job we're going in another direction we're going to recommend another they don't tell you who I wasn't concerned to I wish them all the best it was an again it was an incredible process but it's funny about it now this stuff kind of comes out today

which is it's actually accurate but the funny thing is like Elliot Friedman this is what Elliot does for he's the best in the business for a reason He knew about you interviewing before you did. Okay. All right. Yeah, he just went on to say that Elliot knew, but didn't report it.

I went on last week and dropped his name, but I didn't talk to Mike. You didn't know that we. And I didn't cut a deal like Elliot did. I'm like, Elliot, I'm between you. I'm dropping. This is relevant. No, I did. You know what?

I got it. I got a message just moments before our show, like I often do at times. Which, by the way, is why you're sometimes, like, hedging on there. Yeah, because you haven't, like, 100% confirmed it. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, I just said, yeah.

And I had heard that he was either had been interviewed when I said it last week, or he was about to. Yeah. So, you know, and. Well, that's great. I think it's, I think it's, to, to Mike's point, it, what a huge compliment, right? to be in that room and for such a prestigious title.

He'll be involved yet. You know, who's to say what they decide to do once they come up with this structure. I know that Pelley had talked a lot about their structure and how that's all going to look. Looks good for sports. Good hiring by Sportsnet. Nailed it. Got a guy who's interviewing for the least GM job every day on the radio? Pretty good.

Yeah. Pretty good. I think Butes is putting together something for the website on, you know, just some ideas for the Leafs that he would have. Love it, which is cool. Love it. Okay. Um, where do you want to go? Edmonton?

Do we want to quickly talk about the hockey games last night before we get to Freed and talk more about the Leafs? I wrote, uh, a systems analyst post on the OT winner from last night. Oh, the Boston Buffalo OT winner. Do you want to talk about that game quickly? Okay, hold on. Yeah. But like, Pastor Nack, just sticking it to Buffalo like he has,

sticking it to Sammy all those years. Yeah. He was on side by a quarter of an inch. Yeah, like he's just, I don't know what else. you want me to say he's that dude he's that dude but you know what three seconds before that crebs has the puck oh i know what a turnover and mcclough is in alone like if that pass gets through yeah it might be series over uh kuznet kuznitinov makes an unbelievable play and flips it like that past it jumps off the bench because they're diving in the bench for the change unbelievable and just

and just pastor knack's celebration after where he's just looking at all the saber fans He's going. He's yelling. We're coming back here. We're coming back. Yeah, we have a clip of him talking to TNT. Just a quick little five-second clip on what he was saying when they're, I think it was Anson that asked him after the game.

Derek, we could play. It's called Pashnak on TNT. I mean, they were all flipping me off. I was just telling them, we're going to come back here. They were all flipping me out. Reasonable to go at them in that event. Yeah. They were all flipping him off.

Sure. Immediately every guy on the, on the glass. And who's mad at them? Zero. Absolutely. Guess who would be doing the exact same thing? This guy. It's such a futile thing.

They're just like, look at my middle fingers. Look at it. Outside of Pastor and act, like, it's all swaying too. Yeah. Nominated from the Vesna. He gave it to his team when he got pulled the other night. So that's what he was doing,

he was going down the bench and being like, hey, wake the heck up darn it yeah and then to go back to Buffalo and have that performance he absolutely robbed Tage Lemieux you know in the third period

post to post you know he doesn't even know he's there he just knows there's trouble on the back door and made a great save on tuck in the slot right before they're right before that yeah Krebs is at the end of a minute 22 shift because he was a part of that whole cycle and he couldn't get off the rink there's two there's three young teams against like the quote unquote more experienced teams

that have massive game sixes. Well, the more experienced teams are climbing back in it Pittsburgh tonight going up against Philly. Philly, it's a massive game for them. Buffalo going into Boston for that game six, massive game for them. And the biggest one is the ducks. Because the ducks are going home game six.

If they got to go back to Alberta boys, I don't know if I love their chances. That was a professional win for the oil last year. Totally. What's the horror movie from you? year day. The Halloween movies or is it Mike McDonald or Michael McDonald's?

Michael McDonald was the singer. He's got that weird voice. Mike Myers? Is that it? Is that it? I don't know. Halloween? Anyway. Halloween or Freddie Kruger or I don't know.

The dude walks very slow. Mike Myers is always funny. No, Mike Myers is the scary guy. This is. One of these guys moves very slowly and stocks people. It is Mike Myers. In the movie.

It's not the, in Austin Powers too yeah baby it's not it's not it's not it's not Halloween it's not the actor Mike Myers the scary character in the Halloween it's called Michael Myers

not Mike Myers Michael Myers I was always too scared to watch those movies so I don't know the point is they're groovy baby they're slowly stalking their victims Oh, God.

God, we're just... We gotta get the out of here so we can talk to... Yeah, we should call free in a little bit. The dude. Okay, I'm gonna... Jay's up 5-1. I'm gonna look up that movie. It's like one of the most famous horror movies of all time.

I don't touch those. No. No, I don't need it. I went and saw the grudge in high school, and it was like the scary, like, little kid one where they're, like, scary and... No, I didn't sleep for three weeks. Yeah, dude, I was like nine,

and my dad had me to watch candy, man. I think the last horror movie ever saw it. I've never even heard of it. Oh my God, dude. Terrifying. Candy man. Terrifying movie. There's bees involved.

All right. All right, let's go. Elliot Friedman, you want your insider information? Stick around. You got one of the best. After the break. Everything you need to know about the raptors

and the biggest stories around the NBA. Smith and Jones. Subscribe and download the show on Apple. or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program. Nick Caprios, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee. In a few minutes, we'll welcome in Elliot Friedman as he gets set up. In the meantime, NHL's strategically releasing award finalists.

You got all your votes in? Yep, I'm all voted up. The Vezna, I think, was announced. But the first one that was announced was the MVP, right? No, is the player MVP, Ted Lindsay? Ted Lindsay?

Yeah. And they've done the heart. I don't think so, have they? No, they haven't done the heart? Ted Lindsay is the players vote. Yeah, that's the NHLPA one, I think. If I'm not mistaken.

NHLPA, yeah. So they didn't have McKinnon in there. Yeah. One of six players to ever get 97 even strength points in NHL season. Is that, um, is that going to be the same

when it comes to the heart? I don't think so. I think McKinon will be on I don't think Celebrini will be. It's really hard to avoid Salabrini when you consider like this was a teenager.

No, see, that's the exact complaint. I have, I have value in, it's a special, special year. Total it. Special player. But that's a special year. That's not relevant context to the award. I know, you're probably right. Yeah, you're probably right. McKininrodham and McDavid were just flat out better. Well, yeah.

That's how I feel too. More productive, but. But it's like if someone does it at 45, doesn't mean their seasons any different. It's just a popularity. It's just a popular. Well, that's,

popularity contest at the end of the day. East and new, hot stock on the rise. It should just be Connor every year. Well, that's how I feel sometimes. It should just be Connor again. You know, my longstanding thing is I, LeBron won MVP of the NBA four times. That's insane.

You've been in the league 21 years. Been the only the best guy four times. Like, come on. It's been a couple more times. Yeah. So you're always looking for the new. new sexy whatever spread it around

participation participation yeah it's the MVP of the league what are you talking this isn't like an all-star game someone's opinion whose jersey did you buy

oh you're the worst all time this is such a bad take that you have you know guys you get so bad at a shake used to have contract clauses matters like it matters like that's what I do take it

seriously because I think like there are still contracts that have performance. I don't know. There used to be. There used to be 50, 100 grand for a major award. I don't know if they still do that or not if they're allowed to. But in the NBA, it's like if you're first or second team, like it's sliding in terms of like how much you can make.

And like if you're a first team all NBA guy, the difference in what you can make. So like Zach Lowe, who is a really, you know, popular and well-respect. he's awesome NBA guy gave up his vote because he was just like this is an insane amount of responsibility to like be changing these guys like it's hundreds of millions of dollars difference for if you're on and what's sad about that is if anyone should be voting it's that low but like it's like you're the super duper max and like the super i don't know how it works but it's like a big difference for the sliding scale it's not like that in the nchel you know that would

really incentivize the players to kiss up to the media a little bit wouldn't it Like you're a top guy. Yeah, yeah, you need an interview? Sure. I'm coming on your pod, Zach. I'm over for dinner. You think it's fine. Just go to the media and I don't know how many are in it.

Like, how many get to vote? There's like 50, 100. 20, 140 and then another 20 broadcast. Do you need all of them? If you narrowed it down, do you need everybody? I mean, the answer's no. You could have one guy do it if you wanted to. This guy, first guy out, you're fired.

You know. Hanged by a Rudolph. This should get you in. It's a part, it's about. Selinger. And we do know the majority of people around here, like, they don't really watch the Western games. David Amber tweeted a very...

They don't. They don't. They're sleeping, man. You're not fine. This is Kip being jealous. This is what it sounds like when Kip's... No, I voted. I got in on the vote. Do you vote this year? Okay. What? Oh, my God. You should have seen me. So we would have...

We would have a sports that playoff preview show. Uh, and Elliot's screaming, get your votes in. And I'm like on my phone during the playoff preview show, voting for Elliot, thank God I'm not doing that anymore. Kipps on screen time limits like my son. I got to tell you, and it gets, Nick, it gets harder and harder every year.

Like this year I'm sitting there. I'm looking at the hardest. I was looking at the way the players voted the other day. And I'm looking at this, like one of Celebrity, McKinnon, McDavid, or Couturaw is going to come in forth. And when that ballot comes out, whoever's put forth, they're going to show up at my house with torches. It's not fun.

It is not fun. So you don't have McKinnon on your heart? I did not say that. I just said that I can't. He's in my ballot. He absolutely is. But they ask us to keep our ballots private until the awards are announced. Yeah, well, you tipped your hand already.

We know you don't have McKinnon. It's fine. It's fine. Just say it on our show. You don't have to be scared. I'm not scared. I saw how he looked at that toy. Yes.

I'm prepared for it if that's the way it is. That's a boy. All right. Let me ask you, before we get into this whole Leaf General Manager's search, you know, you've been around a long time. I have. We've gone through process for president, general manager before the Toronto Maple Leafs. Did this one feel different

for so many reasons, Elliot to you? Or it still feels like it's different from what we've experienced in the past. Maybe the best example would be knowing and feeling like Brian Burke was going to come in because he was at that time at the top of the mountain.

Well, you know, the thing that really stands out different for me about this one, Nick, and it's not only the Toronto one, it's also Nashville, and it's also, to some degree, New Jersey, but also Vancouver. Like, doesn't it feel like there's a changing of the guard that a lot of the people that we were used to or got mentioned, they're not really even candidates here anymore. Like, look at all the names that we're hearing all across these different searches. they're like

like new jersey when when they found out that Toronto had interest in Sunny Meta they ended their search they had called people and they said okay we're going to do some interviews here and then oh no then all of a sudden

it was like nope we're not losing this guy to Toronto and we're handing and we're he's our guy and we're giving him the giving him the job so and that that's what surprised see here Nick is that out of nowhere almost the guard is changing

that is what shocked me the most so elli what do you know from the Toronto side on on sunny because they did ask and I believe you reported that they asked for permission from Florida to speak to sunny yes did they ever speak to sunny because obviously with Neil Glassberg there the feeling that he was representing him

as well did that come into play in any of this? I think that they were going to ask him regardless of who represented him. I had heard his name. That was one of the first names I heard connected to Toronto.

That was a guy that they were interested in and that was a guy that they wanted to talk to. And so I think they did interview him. I don't know if it was in person. I don't know if they brought him up here. They did it by Zoom. But I do believe there was at least one conversation slash interview with META.

And then it was reported that they were interested. And two days later, New Jersey just got in there and said, no, no, no, we're doing this. Wow, they're the great New Jersey devils. Who are the Leafs to put up against the big, mighty New Jersey devils, right? Well, also, don't forget, he's from there. And he's got connected, and he's used to work there. that also might have been

I haven't spoken to him so I don't know but Nick that may have been a personal choice All right so this Toronto Maple Leaf search I might flip the question a little bit on you and just say at this point with Sundeen Cheka do you have any concerns or thoughts that maybe it won't be Sun Dean Cheka?

Well Justin I always believe nothing is done until it's done So I think they're going down this road. I think they are trying to get this done. But until you have signed contracts, it's not done. I mean, you know, you guys probably remember there was a time the Maple Leafs thought that they were going to get David Poyle. And he decided no. And then there was a time they thought they were going to get Bob Ganey.

And he decided no. I've seen, in other sports, I've seen players and executives think that they were going somewhere. And the last minute, there was a snag and it never happened. Like, you know, they have to reach a deal with Sandin. And while I think they're in that process right now until you have either a verbal agreement or a signed contract, like, that's one thing. Like if this doesn't happen, I don't know where this is going to go. But I think, but right now they've decided this is the path they're going to go on. And I've had people tell me that they're confident they're going to be able to get them signed.

But I don't, but until it happens, Justin, it's not done. You're listening to Elliott Friedman, Hockey Night in Canada, 32 thoughts, talking Toronto Maple Leafs, General Managing. Elliot will it present as a bit of a one-two punch, a partnership? Is the sense that we are talking about hockey operations

for mats and in theory Chica would report to Matt's. Mats would report to Keith Pelly. Pelley to the board, obviously, in ownership. Is that the feel we get? I have asked this question to anybody who will answer it.

And there are a lot of people right now who will not answer it. Nick, I haven't gotten clarity on how the structure is going to work. Like, I mean, I can't imagine if Sundin agrees to this that he's not doing it without some degree of control over decision making, right? I mean, of anybody in this conversation, you know him the best. I'm a huge fan of Sundeen's, but I would not profess to know him better than guys who played with him or the people who really know him.

But I've got to think if he is going to relocate himself here to run the show, he's going to have the say. But nobody has told me that for sure. What I have been able to nail down a bit is unless something has changed, I believe his title is going to be vice president of hockey operations. Jake is going to be the GM. if that would seem to me, Nick, that Mats would have say over this entire situation, and report directly to Keith,

but I'd be lying to you if I told you I knew that for sure. I have like a lot of questions about this. The first is like, do those guys know each other? Like is that, you know, has there any sort of concern over that relationship to begin with? And then the next part of that for you just is just that there's a, lot of changes to make we were led to believe within the organization. Is good guy Matt Sundeen going to come in and fire people? Well, I'll answer the first part of your question is I don't know what contact they've had.

Okay. So I can't answer that. The second part I would say is, you know, it's not the nicest thing to, I mean, anybody who's ever run a business, Justin knows that you can be a really nice guy, which Sundin, I think is, but you have to make hard decisions. Like if you're not capable of making hard decisions, you aren't capable of being in that position.

No, and that's a week-one stuff for you. Well, you know, to me, it's like, one of the things I kind of liked about Doug Armstrong in St. Louis this year was he was ready to clear the decks for Alex Steen. I like the idea of, you know, if someone else is going to take over, maybe you do some heavy lifting for them, right?

And I've got to think that Steen had a lot of votes in what Armstrong was going to do, but Armstrong was willing to do it. If it was me and I was in that chair, that is the way I would do it. I would say, okay, on my way out, if there's something I know my successor wants, I will do it. To this point, and I checked it again this morning, I had heard the plan was that whoever comes in will make the decisions on the people who are already there.

Now, I think, I mean, obviously it's been a really hard time for some of the people who were there, and I think some of them have asked for clarity. But, Justin, last I checked early this morning, I had been told that the decisions on these individuals was going to be made by the incoming people. Okay. So you haven't reported yet that Craig Brewy's back next year yet, have you?

No, but, you know, I will say this, I think that in talking to some of the people who were interviewed, I think it was left up to them. But like sometimes, you know, Nick, in these meetings you wonder, like, who gets slandered and are people spoken about poorly? I heard Barubi was spoken about pretty well. Like nobody disrespected him. But again, I heard that it was the new person's decision.

All right, do you have more on? Yeah, just Elliot, John Chicaa. And we know how he left in, what, five years ago with Phoenix, Arizona at the time, I think they were still called. Any chance, like, you know, that still is lingering out there, whether it's his relationship with the league or other general managers or, you know, it didn't end pretty for him there. No, it didn't. I have not spoken. Look, I cover all that stuff. I remember all that stuff really well.

I have sent him notes. I have not gotten responses. He's kept pretty quiet. I would like to speak to him. I think everybody deserves a chance to prove they've learned their lessons and that maybe they can be different the second time around. I'm pretty consistent on that belief. But I would like to talk to him first.

I would like to hear, you know, what he learned. I understand he's been cleared by the league. But, like, you know, I read everything. I listen to everything. There's obviously a lot of opinions out there. Like, Nick, like, it goes back to what we kind of just talked about at the beginning of the interview here. I think the way in which this year has led to such a sea change

and the candidates being looked at and the people who are getting some of these jobs or serious contenders for these jobs has thrown the entire industry for a loop. And yes, there are certainly some very passionate feelings about him, but I want to talk to him first. And that's the way I would like to be treated, and that's the way I'm going to treat.

I'll get to hear what he has to say. So what do you think it was that he brought in his interviews that pushed him past Ryan Martin, Scott White, Evan Gold, Mike Feudah, a lot of the other names that were involved? I can't say that for sure. But what I would say, like Justin, you go back to Keith Pelley's media conference that started all of this about data-centric or whatever term that he was that he used. I always seem to forget. but he would be that kind of a person. That is his approach.

That's the kind of stuff that he looks at. And, you know, I think the other thing, too, is, you know, if it's going to be Sundeen at the top of the pyramid, you would probably have to bring in somebody who says, okay, I've got the GM title. You don't really have the full power necessarily. Like, I don't think you're going to be picking fights internally in Toronto with Matt Sunday. So you, and I think in, I don't necessarily think that people would refuse to do it.

But I would bet that some of those candidates would probably be like, you know what? I think I'd rather have a bit more say or a bit more control or, you know, would like, would like to have. I would be curious to know from some of these candidates. Would they say, you know what, I may not have full decision-making power here? Does that appeal to me? Is that what I want? And that's kind of one of the questions I've been asking, is that, and this is, I guess, something that happens if we get to the press conference when we learn how this is all going to work,

I wouldn't be surprised if Chica was somebody who really has, probably the best opportunity he's going to get here if he gets it to bring himself back in to say, you know what, if I'm coming in in Matt Sundeen's shadow, and I may not have full decision-making authority, but I'm going to help him run this show, I don't think that's a bad move for him

if he wants to rehab or change his image. Any more sightings of Keith Pelley and Matt Sundeen at Harbor 60 or? No. That's so random, I would. I really, I really didn't want to tell that story, but I got called about it. And I was like, oh, God, I better, I better tell this. You got to hide behind bigger plants. The thing is, Nick, I wasn't even hiding.

Like, I was out in full view. It was just, it was so weird. It was so strange. Like, it's, like, I know people who have broken stories like that. I think that's the first time it's ever. happened to me. Awesome stuff as always, pal. We really appreciate you coming on today.

My pleasure, guys. Have a great day. Thanks, Friege. Appreciate it. Elliot Friedman. Hockey Night in Canada. 32 thoughts. Always a great. That was great. Great guest. Hold on. What's this? Is that?

So on his podcast, he talked about how he was just out with his son, him and his son were at Harbor 60 having a steak dinner, and they went to the washroom at the same time, and Keith Pelly and Matt Sundeen were in there. Wow. Yeah. So that's how he knew that Matt was in town doing an interview. Pure chance running, no reporting, just ran into him.

Wow. The other part he didn't say is when he runs a little short on the bill, he does some dishes too. I, uh, yeah, cool. Random. What's the most random celebrity running you guys have had? Can you have one at the top of your head? I don't know.

Okay. Geez, I didn't know who was that tough of a question. How about you? We saw Trayette's dad. Yeah, and then they booted him out of the section. Well, no,

no, they did. The boys behind us were not supposed to sit in where they were. And the ushers came down and grabbed them because they were bending Trey's dad's ear. I'm not, I'm not going to a baseball game anymore. I went to a Tracy Morgan's in a comedy show.

Yeah, go ahead. And Tracy ended up back at our college dorm at like two in the morning. That's amazing. And it was weirder than you think. Wow. Good times. Yeah, Sammy, just taking pictures all game.

I'm like, can you just watch the game, Sammy? Why don't you shut up? Okay, everyone comes up to you. Everyone's got, everyone knows Kipper. Kipper, you remember me from here? Yeah, you remember me from here? Yeah, you remember me? I've never seen a guy get stopped more than this guy.

This guy's Brad Pitt at a Toronto's morning. I just know, I don't really remember. I don't know, but just pretend and remind me later. Anything from the freeze interview regarding Mathsard? Yeah, it's going to be Matt. Chica, excuse me what? It's going to be mad. Yeah, it's going to be them.

Seems like that's what's happening. I do think it's interesting that you may have not one guy with pure authority the way that we had anticipated. And this is not any inside information. I do not know a thing. But Craig Bruy's coming back. How can you not feel like he's not coming back? Because I do. Because you keep saying it.

Because I look at the stats. So Matt is going to come in. Yes. And in five minutes, he's going to, yes. This is the problem. He's going to fire Craig Brooby. Has he not been paying attention or has he? We can't do this.

We're not doing this again. You're pissing up from a coma and go, what's been happening in Toronto? What? No way. Brutal of me to start this conversation. Yeah, another four-fifty. The bumper's playing and he's breaking news. All right.

We can do a bit in the Nashville, too. Christyrian. God. We go flyers. Yeah, big one. Big one. Big one. Plenty more still on the bone.

The real Kippenborn Show. Take a break. Go get something to eat. I don't know. Bathroom break. And come back.