Real Kyper & Bourne - Looking for Answers Against the Lightning

Episode Date: December 20, 2022

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee get you set for tonight's game between the Leafs and the Tampa Bay Lightning and discuss the playoff atmosphere and implication, Lightning coach Jon Cooper having fun at Toronto's expense, the Leafs' waning effort levels ahead of the Holiday roster-freeze and much more. Former NHL executive and Sportsnet hockey analyst Mike Futa (41:51) shares his thoughts on the Leafs' biggest needs, who they should target via trade and why they will be handicapped by the cap. Later, TNT's Keith Jones (1:07:31) joins the show to discuss the John Tortorella experience in Philly, if the Devils are a team to fear come playoffs and the Capitals being back in the hunt.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. If by chance you hear silence in our last block of our show today, it will be because Justin and I are like knee-deep in a puddle of Portuguese tarts. Wow. Is this Caldense Bakery? I don't know how to say it, but thank you, Derek Brandeo. Our tech guru, Derek Brandeo, brought us a box of Portuguese tarts that are off the charts good.

My God. And you couldn't even wait. No, I didn't even bother. I didn't pretend I was going to wait. All I hear is like the countdown to the show. And I'm like, it's like sitting beside Cookie Monster. Just a tad. You know, I eat a chocolate bar a day.

This is an upgrade. That's not Cookie Monster from Sesame Street. That is JB eating a Portuguese tart. Yeah, and there's five left in that box. Thanks to Derek. Of course, the cast is here. Jen Rolnick, Derek,

Sammy McKee, and JB were ready to rock and roll for the next two hours on what should be, yeah, pretty darn good hockey game teed up for the Toronto Maple maple leafs as tampa comes in sammy is this correct they haven't played here yet this year why does it feel like they've been here already the leafs played there just an away game so far yeah they played there um and they

lost 4-3 in overtime so here we are, two games left. Are we going to feel a playoff-type environment, or are we going to see two teams with the corner of their eye on Christmas presents and Portuguese tarts and presents and get me to the finish line here? I don't think so. Like, there's still another game left before the christmas break for them i feel like this is you're far enough away it's tampa bay who's on a hot streak i feel like you're gonna get a great showing tonight this should be a great

hockey game i mean i'm i'm pumped to be honest this i love hockey this time of year being in the building feels different great energy right excited for the tampa bay lightning to come in tonight what do they want five in a row something like that i do get the sense that this one and there's just no way that sheldon keith would at least not drive it through all his players that we have lost two in a row here. And I don't want to go into the break losing three of four or four into the break. I got to think that he is the attention to detail. The last 24, 48 hours from Sheldon Keefe to his players will be there tonight.

And how do you not once again, look at as, as a, as a bit of a measuring stick and i know we we joke around but as boston continues to win yeah like it it almost feels like it is a foregone conclusion that these two teams will see each other in april yeah i mean they are eight points behind the boston bruins right, and Boston has a game, so they don't seem catchable. Behind Tampa Bay is the Buffalo Sabres of all teams, who are 10 points behind Toronto. Like, the likelihood of Toronto finishing two or three in the division

is extremely likely. The likelihood of the Tampa Bay finishing there, almost exactly the same. They're three points behind Toronto with two games in hand. Boys, Tampa, Toronto, is it set in December? Yeah. Thanks, Gary. Thanks, Gary.

He wants more games. He wants more games and more rivalry games. So he just wants all these teams to play more and have more of a death march towards what's the inevitable here. This has a chance to be really embarrassing if, in fact, your top three teams in the league are Boston, Tampa Bay, and Toronto, and one gets eliminated. Yeah, I don't think it's sour grapes to be upset about this. I think Tampa probably feels the same way. Yeah, I'm with Sammy on this. Really? yeah i don't think it's sour grapes to be upset about this like i think it's tampa probably feels the same way yeah i'm with sammy on this really well yeah i am when you

consider that like three out of five over the course of 82 games and you pin them against each other yeah in the opening round it is It's not good for your league either. No, it's just not good for it. It makes it really look like it's an 82-game exhibition season. It does. It doesn't put a huge emphasis on where you finish. The Metro division, the Leafs would be tied for first in the Metro right now. New Jersey's lost five straight games.

I mean, yeah. No no i'm with you guys there is there is justification for some frustration but anyone you know who isn't the least fan will say oh you gotta beat everyone yada yada i i personally hate that to me you do well enough the regular season you should have a softer round one opponent do we want to listen to um john cooper who we had featured in Kippers Clippers today because he said it was a playoff-type field. I remember last playoffs we played a lot of clips from him. Do you want to hear him talking about the Atlantic Division?

Because it's very relevant to this conversation. Yes, I'd let her rip. I'll tell you, it says something about the three organizations that have somehow found a way to be at the top for quite a number of years now. It's just tough because you know you're going to face one or two of those teams if you're fortunate enough to get the playoffs. I don't care what anybody says about our playoff series against the Leafs last year. That could have gone either way, and fortunately it went our way.

But they're tough games to play, and Boston's obviously kind of in another level right now. But it can be daunting sitting there saying you've got 50 games left, but knowing that if you keep playing the way you're playing, we might be visiting the team next door again in April. He's all prepared. So just to stick on this theme, theme and yes there is something to be said that tampa bay toronto albeit first round exits are are keeping people

in the belief that they can compete for for cups and i get it you know i can hear the snickers now i get out of the first round don't talk but we do believe that they are one of the stronger teams in the National Hockey League. It's not like they embarrassed themselves against Tampa who went to the final. But are you one that believes that because of the salary cap, that it is cyclical, that it's only a matter of time. And we thought all three of us and many in the hockey world that it was just Boston's time to fall into that cycle and drop off this season. Yeah. Didn't happen. Tampa Bay.

We've been same thing. Come on. They're going to run out of gas. They're tired. It's run its course. And yet here they are. So is it going to be a matter of time here still? Like, will these top three teams drop?

You know, I think it's... And the Buffaloes will come up and the Detroit's. And will it be their turn in the next two years? I think the process, the circle of life you're talking about, it takes longer than we think. Cause you look at the teams who are starting to drop out of it. And, you know,

we thought for years, remember when Chicago won the cup and LA won the cup and they hung on and hung on, didn't want to start the rebuild till eventually you have to that's Washington right now. Who's trying it. Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh is climbing,

but teetering. Tampa Bay's teetering. Boston will lose Bergeron and Krejci next year. Yeah, and Tampa Bay's core is older guys like Hedman and Stamkos and Kucharov. I'll say it. Two years from now, three years from now, you don't know what the Leafs are going to look like. No. There's no guarantees that Matthews re-signs. There's no guarantees that there'll be enough for Nylander.

Marner will need a new contract in three years. It's like, you don't know. Maybe the cycle, these teams may be missing the cycle. Or can you avoid that cycle? No one can avoid it. The circle of life. I don't know. And old Boston again last night, 7-3 win over the...

Yeah, Florida's. But still, I mean, they just win every night. They have a possible 52 or 62 points this year. That's freaking unbelievable. Look at Hagel with Tampa Bay. Cost him two first-rounders. I know. And scratching your head.

But he knew he was going to lose Palat. And he knew that Hagel would come in and fill that void. Yep. And he's got him two first rounders. But that's part of avoiding the drop off in the cycle. Should we do Cooper on how they find guys? Yeah, that's actually perfect. How they find guys who fit their system.

Perfect. Well, I think a big part of it is the communication between, you know, let's say myself, the GM, and our players and what we need as a group. And it's hard to go out and find that. Many times, you know, you go to a deals are made where maybe you're looking for that top four, or your quote-unquote top six player

it's kind of not been what we've gone after the last few years excuse me we look at that you know some of these character guys that we've tried to bring in on contracts that fit for us that's probably the biggest kicker is trying to find those guys and And then we've probably been looked at for kind of the price we've given up for some players, but Brandon Hagel's a top-line player for us with multiple years in his contract. You have to pay for those. If they cost you two first-round picks, they cost you two first-round picks. But he's also been a big part of us going to a final

and a big part of why we're in a playoff spot right now so i just think our jam's done a heck of a job of you know us as a group identifying what we need and then him going out and finding it and then not being afraid to pay for it pay the price for it oh and no state tax let's just throw that in there too but it is a good point that they're not finding superstars but they're paying for guys who can help them and not cost much because they're in a cap crunch like everyone else so let me ask you this because we're talking about the possible matchup do you like because i mean they don't talk about the tampa bay lightning the way that we talk about the toronto maple police but let's say that they have their you know 10 minute corner on the lightning when they talk

on their sports radio at the station for a full day and they spend the box show yeah they throw in lightning corner yeah lightning corner for 10 seconds that they throw in there do you think that they would be talking about being scared to face the leafs in the first round again do you think or do you think they would be looking forward to the you know they think they own them that's the it's the veteran savvy they can beat them like do you think there's a fear from their side of it too? I think it's a great question. I'm interested. It's a great question. What do you think?

Not from what I hear. Really? Yeah. I just never want to play a good team with elite superstars, and the Leafs have that. Like superstars can beat you, and these are prime age superstars. I think a guy like Bogosianian who's been on both sides can say that yes the skill can beat you but they they're not gonna wear you down they're not hard to play against they are hard to play

against if you want to think that you're gonna go toe to toe but you can lean on them you can you can you can get in their face i don't know like he went through that seven game series on tampa last year against toronto yeah where they snuck out a two one win in game seven i don't think maybe they didn't sneak it out maybe they're just bigger and stronger in game seven no i i don't get the impression that they left that series going that was a cakewalk no i didn't say cakewalk. Well, you know. But you're not leaving bumped and bruised against the Toronto Maple Leafs. You're going to get outskilled.

And I think they would gladly take that chance over, you know, say, a more physical team, like a Tom Wilson and an Ovechkin. That's all. I mean, but surely they would take toronto or take washington over toronto i just feel like there seems to be a measure of respect and when i know that people laugh at that too but john cooper had some clips on that in fact talking about the good memories here in toronto but you know i i just i find it hard to believe

they look at toronto and go ah we can push no I'm not saying that they're going to, it may be the Leafs' time. Yeah. Eventually, the percentages will work in the Leafs' favor. Right, they'll get some bounce. Some will get hurt on Tampa at the right time. Something might happen. Although, Point did get hurt last year. Yeah, their best player got hurt.

I don't think there's a fear factor that you are alluding alluding to or at least yeah he asked me are you scared of playing the trot would they be scared of playing the trot may please yeah i don't think so do you want to hear cooper just having fun at toronto's expense now let's have no let's play it let's have cooper on good memories it depresses you sam It doesn't mean we can't play it. I shouldn't even put this clip in. Good memories in Toronto for John Cooper. Yeah. Actually, there's always good memories because when we come from the airport, I drive by and we see Rico where we won the Coler Cup there,

and then Hotel X is right behind it. So, yeah, definitely good memories coming here. That's just sticking it to the leaf. Ah, Hotel X where they won their cup in the bubble. That's right. I remember that. Oh, and what did he have to say about Nick Paul? Nick Paul, how he fits in with this team.

Sorry, what did Nick Paul give you that you guys really need to do? Two goals in game seven. Oh, my God. He's on the all smart-ass team right there. What did Nick Paul give you? Two goals in game seven. Okay, like, what kind of question is that? Like, who asks what did Nick Paul give you?

What, have you been under a rock? Well, he gave him a lot. You don't know what Nick Paul brings the Tampa Bay Lightning that you got to ask him? I think he just wanted to throw up the volleyball for John Cooper to spike it down Toronto. So he's, I'll team up here, this alley-oop, and see if he dunks it. And he did a double reverse window triple salchow dunk. Thanks for the Kipper's clipper.

Sammy's been mad about that clip for like, I don't know, 10 hours. You clip it, and then you say, I don't want to play it. Well, listen, I understand that we have some sort of a, I wouldn't say journalistic. I wouldn't say it's a very journalistic show, but we have some sort of a right to play him saying that. It's a clip, you know? We do have Johnny Journalist here. Johnny Journalist, yeah. But it does piss me off big time.

But it's also great because we listened to the clip separately today. So he had to listen to it when he clipped it. He played it for me. Then he played it for you. Then we played it on the show, and I think he just reached his boiling point. Yeah, he's disgusted by it at that point. Correct. Yeah, I am disgusted by it.

And listen, the worst part about tonight is, with the Lightning, is that even if the Leafs beat them and they play well, they can always be like, yeah, well, they can lean back on that. Well, yeah. Talk to us in April. Doesn't matter. It's December, right? If we had a show tomorrow, Kipper would be like, yeah, I played right, but it doesn't matter.

This is the only perk of winning in the postseason is that you get to go, well, he can't beat us when it matters. You just get to, you know. But, if you do get a sense that both teams are playing well and playing hard,

there's a better indicative that it does show the cards a little bit more. Like when the Leafs win and the other team you know is better but just doesn't show up and vice versa, then it's really hard to get a good sense. How many times do we see where both teams played exceptionally well but somebody won that happens a lot in the playoffs it just doesn't happen that often in regular season yeah no you're right it's tough to get everyone up so yeah you know but these games

like this are supposed to be that next level measure i got the question that morning skate should have been today oh yeah what do you think about all those penalties you were gifted in game six and game seven? What do you think about those ones, John? Oh, yeah. That was great. The Leafs have lost two in a row. The Leafs have lost two in a row. They haven't played horrible.

No. Not horrible. Not horrible. Yeah. You know what I have noticed? You know what? I would actually like to give this little tidbit coming out of one of our clips here. I don't know.

Sammy, what's the clip about Toronto and maybe backing off their effort level a little bit, not having quite the same level of hustle? Keep on what they need heading into tonight. All right. Let's do that one. Well, I think the big thing is I think when we look at the last couple of games we've played,

that's been the level of play has been far higher than what it's been. I think you experienced that. I sort of alluded to it earlier through an 82-game season. I think the games have different the emotion and the energy

and the intensity of the games. There's an ebb and flow to that throughout the season, no matter with who you're playing. And it took us too long to get to that level, I thought. And as a result, we played from behind. So, you know, one of the things about that level for the Toronto Maple Leafs is looking at the stats. In the last five games, their forecheck chances and rebound chances

have like plummeted. Like they're not generating any turnovers, they're not getting the puck in the forecheck, and they're not creating off of that. Something they did really well. They're actually in the top 10 in the league still in those categories, but they've been terrible at it

for the last five hockey games here. And that to me is an effort, a commitment, we're going sort of thing. See, that, to me, says they're tired. Yeah. It's a physical thing. Yeah. Well, yeah, coming up to the Christmas break,

I guess not that uncommon. Or the fact that they've had their foot on the pedal for a good month, month and a half. Part of it, too, when they started 4-4, I think they felt like they had to put their foot on, right? Yes. It's like, we need to go pedal down. Hearing that major changes are coming potential you know sheldon gonna we're gonna cost sheldon his job all of a sudden they got this gap from everyone

they pulled away and it's like okay we're not for a second not to mention guys playing above their skates too right like think of all the guys that they had to put in you mentioned geo slowing down all the amount of time he had to play john tavaris tavaris to me saturday night was the guy that i saw the most with he doesn't have his legs yeah and with the toward pace that he was on i'm understandable you know we'll listen to uh keith on yarn crock in a second here because one of the things that stood out in this clip for me is he talks about how some guys when they have time off it actually helps them like not for everyone but some guys it does and i remember do you guys remember patrick marlowe didn't want to like ever miss a game for the toronto maple leafs which used

to be frustrating but no it was wasn't it to keep some sort of streak alive yes but but there was a all star break where he got like four or five days off and he hadn't done anything good in a long time and he came back with fresh legs and it was incredible to watch the difference in his skating and this for older people older players it makes a big difference so well we've heard from mark giordano he doesn't like it he doesn't want it he loves to play don't you i i don't i don't believe that it's it's i think it's physical for him that he likes to go go go no no it's his attitude and it's not him really being realistic with what his body's capable of doing compared to what it was able to do seven or eight years ago. Right. Yeah. So let's listen to Keefun Yarncroft,

who is not just back tonight, but playing alongside Marner and Tavares once again. Yeah. I mean, you never quite know, right? Some guys it takes a while to get back up to speed. Some guys just getting a little bit of a break really helps them. You know, they're, you know, we're getting right towards sort of the dog days of

winter here in the holidays and guys starting to get worn down a little bit and he's a guy that hasn't played so you know we'll see uh yesterday i thought he had lots of life lots of pop and bounce and practice and um like i commented on i thought he made our practice better yesterday it was just clear to me how much we've we've missed him because he's a veteran player that has such a strong skill set, is very good at a lot of different things. So, you know, we'll see how it goes. We liked what we had seen from him playing with those guys

before he got injured, and we'll go right back into that spot tonight. To me, that's just such a Malgan dig, that whole clip. You think so? Well, he's just like, yeah, he skates and shoots and he's like an hl player it's like you know you know the that's probably his greatest realization once yarn croc got hurt is maybe like you didn't think he was that important to the team and then he's tried to replace him with robertson minutes for an extended period of time that didn't go very well and then you try to replace it with Malgan's minutes,

and we all know how that went. So then to have Jarnkrok, who none of us were, I don't think, massive fans of the guy, but we can all agree that he's a capable NHL player. He works, and he's big enough and shoots really well. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Before everybody says, you know, he's great and he's – I literally say he's capable at NHL. No, no.

But the sense is, like, we're getting an NHL-er and this guy's the real deal. And do you envision Yarncroft on the left side of Tavares and Marner to start game one of the Stanley Cup playoffs because I don't have him as a legitimate top six guy. No, I think he's a stopgap until they find that guy that plays on that left side to me. And I think he's a capable guy that can do it.

That's what I'm getting out of here. I don't think he's the answer in the top six, but he's a hell of a lot better than Malgan. He's a hell of a lot better than what Robertson was giving them. So to me, it's a big help for them to get him back. Yeah, I agree in that he's not the answer. Like there's still, that's a spot that they got to find a solution for. But compared to what they've been trying to fill it with,

Robertson, Malgan, Kerfoot. They put Angvall up there for a little bit. Yeah, like none of those guys were the answer, even close to the answer. So I think you're getting better with Jarnkrok, but you're still not. You want to be not in there. Like you didn't sign him to play there. To $2 million per season for four years to think that he is your second line left winger. No, but I think you do sign him knowing he's versatile enough

if you need someone to fill a gap for a while. Correct. So if they... Correct. So when they trade for Ryan O'Reilly, will they play him on the left wing? With those guys? What do you do?

May play... Matthews, Tavares, Camphill, O'Reilly down the gut. May play Tavares on the left side. Oh. And put Brian.... Put Martin at center. Or you mentioned Ryan O'Reilly. I know, I know. I was just making fun of you there for that one. But no, you don't think, I just, I don't know.

They need an impact in the top six. It's pretty clear that that's the glaring need for this team at the moment. You think they'll make a trade before February? You think they're going a trade before february you think they're gonna wait till the deadline i'd i'd like to see them not wait move sooner to the deadline the sooner the better well they made one trade can yarn crock hold the fort long enough where he can contribute offense to Tavares and Marner? He had a goal and two assists in four games in that spot. I don't know. That's not an answer.

This guy also went 30 plus games without getting a goal in Calgary. He never scored there, eh? Maybe one in the playoffs? Yeah, maybe he got one in the playoffs, but not many. But I agree. We know he's a lot more capable than Mulligan. Yeah. Speaking of Mulligan, why don't we listen to Keefe tell us about the trade

that they did make swapping in Dryden Hunt for Dennis Mulligan. Brought Mulligan in and feel like we gave him a really good opportunity and didn't didn't work probably the way that he thought it would and got off to a pretty good start but you know what hasn't been a hasn't been a fit there but you look at colorado's you know situation with a ton of injuries they have i think they look at his skill set and feel like it's a fit for them and then we look at hunt and some of the things that he can do and think it's a good fit here and at the same time you know try another guy and see if he can he can find his game here on the other side of it offensively because he has he has produced

and scored at different levels it hasn't happened for him at the NHL level but aside from the production part of it he's a a very competitive guy, works hard by all accounts, is a terrific teammate, very coachable guy. So, you know, you bring him in and give him a chance. Saying that he was given an opportunity might be the understatement of the year. I think they felt the need to drive that point home too, so people can't say, well, you didn't give him a chance. Who would say that?

Anybody on this show? No. home too so people can't say well you didn't give him a chance who would say that i don't anybody on this show no no but you know the i don't know the wishy-washy crowd who thinks every small skill guy would be maulgan to be would maulgan be pissed right now i think if you're dennis maulgan you're on the plane to colorado pretty content that you got an opportunity here but the you have no one to blame he should be sending kyle a christmas card every year till the day he dies for the opportunity that he brought him back when i believe 31 other teams wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot pole for sure and but that pre-season goal and played him and maybe put keith on the christmas card list too who put him in the top

six with two of the hottest players in the league for how many games three or four games in a row that he got to play there i i think when he's retired he's looking at it as yes yeah thank you very much guys and he's got a chance now to, again, salvage something with Colorado. Do you know what number he's going to wear? No. Like 81 or something? No. Do you really want to draw that type of attention right off the bat?

What number was he wearing here? 64? No, that's camp. 62. 62. 62? Yeah. There is a lot of people who are like, ah, the number thing, you know, who cares, whatever.

It's just a number. But certainly in hockey circles, if you talk to people, you're like, easy, buddy. Well, Mete, we're in 98 being in and out of the lineup. Go throw on your number four, your defenseman, Victor. I think we're going to be just looking into the future here, you know, maybe around the end january for a uh a tweet from elliot friedman uh dennis malgan is on waivers for the purpose of unconditional release and he is headed back to sc burn to play hockey like i don't i really don't think he's got a whole lot longer here in the in the league you never know you just never know a couple of bounces off his ass but you never know we just talked about it

how much better could he get well and that's i keep thinking like is there a chance he goes to colorado and they play him in the top six and he starts he scores a bunch of goals you know what i think of i think of alexander barabanov barabanov was here and you could see he had some skills and some ability and it was like hey this guy's all right, but not for us. And he's going to San Jose and he's being great. Way to go for Barabanov. He was never the solution here. That's Malgan.

His ceiling is Barabanov. Go be Barabanov for someone else. Oh, my God. Barabanov with the long hair now playing for San Jose. Yeah. I barely remember that guy. Well, yeah. And they grabbed him for nothing.

And he was an exciting little guy doing his thing. But, no, that's just not what they need the same with mulligan is he's he's not the answer for them all right uh how about keith on tampa coming in really smoking hot right now today is going to be very similar another team like we talked about that's coming in confident um feeling really good about about their game and we are maybe a team that was going really well and it's starting to come back come down off that a little bit and our our job is to to get back there and maintain it um you know certainly just through through the break here and we can rest a little bit there but we've got to get these games taken care of this week. There you go.

Yeah, there you go. That's the one that tells you that if they let their foot off the gas pedal tonight, they're in for a long Christmas break with Sheldon stewing over it. Well, they still got one game after this, the next generation game. I think, is it Thursday afternoon or Wednesday afternoon? Well, it makes it a next generation game. They do it every year. It's like the game right before Christmas. And it's like you're encouraged to, if you're a season ticket holder, you're encouraged

to bring your kids or give up the tickets for kids or whatever. Nickelodeon involved at all? No, they're going to wear the Bieber jerseys this year. $3 tickets? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, three times that by 100 hundred you got the right you got the right one um but they're this game uh featured some wild games uh marner's the one year marner scored the fastest goal in the history of the franchise i think it was like carolina no the first one the one he scored the fast goal the history of the franchise was against

minnesota and then the game against carolina where they were down six three and they won eight six and um jim ralph had one of the best calls of all time they they called a timeout when it was six six and marner takes a steal off of the off of the face off they go down he scores and bonesy does his whole call and ralph is like and that was the worst time out in the history of sports immediately so the the next generation game's always wild something crazy happens every year so there you go yep that's um you know the bieber jersey getting worn for three more times this year i'm sure that's the subject it rubs you the wrong way with their reverse retros not getting worn so we were in some chat thread on Twitter.

I don't know whatever came of that, but that Adidas basically called it quits on the jerseys. I haven't seen that to be true and I refuse that to be true. Why would they want, why would they want less promotion for their gorgeous jersey? I don't know the answer to that. Okay, I'm not following. Oh, sorry. Adidas. Adidas said you get two games with the reverse retro,

and that's it to the Leafs, apparently? That's not confirmed. No. We don't know that's confirmed. That was from a Twitter bot. A Twitter bot, yeah, and Chris Creamer was skeptical of it, who did get involved in the thread. Yeah.

Anyway, we'll figure it out. I know this is Kipper's favorite subject. So, big start for Murray tonight, boys. Or Matty. Yes, and this is the one that I think, Big start for Murray tonight, boys. Or Matty. Yes. And this is the one that I think needs to kind of keep the momentum overall going. You can't keep up a torrid pace like they both had for about six or eight weeks to pull back again would be a kind of a natural feel over an 82 game schedule but this one you don't want to get away from you if you're matt murray yeah for the

goaltenders both of them it's time to go out yeah stop the bleeding a little bit i just you know i think of that second half from campbell last year Was there a game or a stretch of games where it was like, ah, he's getting it back. Like it just felt like it just was bad. Once it turned, it just never turned around for him. You'd like to see Matt Murray be like, all right, bad starter too. Like any other goalie back to how it was playing before. Yeah. You're looking for a, it's a, it would be as I'd go as far as to say a bounce back start

tonight because I think it's been too not. So he played against, they lost 2-1 to the Rangers, and I guess it wasn't really a very high event game. I wouldn't say he was bad in that one, but then his last start before that was the one against Calgary, right, where he wasn't very good. So he's got two losses in a row.

Nice to see him, you know, against Basilewski, the Haunter of Dreams. Jack Campbell last night, by the way, gave up another four goals and lost and his goals against average is above four still in the season crazy eight seven five eight seven five save percentage like his seventh or eighth game of this season where he's given up four or more oh yeah well i mean if his average is above four it's got to be close to that yeah it's been rough so well congrats on the Leafs for avoiding that one.

Back in the lineup for Tampa Bay is Anthony Cirelli. Cirelli had missed most of the early part of the season. He's been back for seven games. They've won six of them. Why don't we listen to Cooper on getting Cirelli back? Well, he slots everybody properly now. And he slots who he can match up against. To have a guy like Tony be able to play anywhere in the lineup,

but be able to kind of be a thorn in the side in some of the key players in another team, that takes a little weight off the shoulders of, whether it's Pointer, Paul, and Stammer, and those guys. But he's the engine that stirs the drink. He pulls the team into the fight, and he just plays a lot of those minutes that can take away from maybe some more of your offensive core that you want to open up for them. And so I think Sheldon's probably right.

There's no coincidence we've gone on a run since Tony's come back. Yeah, what a player, boys. Yeah, he's just, he wants to win, right? He's a scrapper. He's one of those guys that, he's a winner. Everywhere he's been, the way he plays, the way he carries himself, the hate-to-lose mentality. You know, the old, everyone loves to win.

Some people truly hate to lose. He seems like a hate-to-lose guy to me. They do have scrappy guys, even their stars. Brad people truly hate to lose. He seems like a hate to lose guy to me. They do have scrappy guys. Even their stars. Braden Point's scrappy. Kucherov is scrappy. Scrappy himself. Dirty.

Dirty, yeah. Scrappy is one way to put it. Complete dirt bag on the ice is another way to put it. In the most complimentary way possible. That guy's scrappy. Very scrappy. Guy's a criminal. Still life in Pat Maroon.

Yeah. See, that's one of those places where I'm like, I don't think that fourth line is going to continue to be as valuable for them. Like Corey Perry, Belmar, Maroon. I'm not as sold that this line is going to continue to matter. Would you trade Tampa's fourth line for the Leafs' fourth line right now with Aston Reese? Oh, yeah.

Right now. Yeah, no doubt. You just dumped all over them. No, I'm saying they're not what they used to be. You know, everyone's getting a little worse. They're older and bigger. I don't think I'm breaking news here to you guys, but the big difference between these two teams in terms of what gives you hope if they can beat them in the playoffs is the grittiness of

their bottom six they're just like all their guys are a pain in the ass colton maroon sorelli namestikov belmar perry cologne like none of these guys are world beaters but they are just a pain in the ass and they're in your grill that's last the difference. Last year too, Sam, on top of that, Maroon, Belmar, and Perry were like the analytics best line in the league. Like expected goals and shot attempts when they were on the ice were like 65% in Tampa's favor. They were tremendous for them. So if they have that over the Leafs, what makes you think that it's a coin toss on a game seven? I don't. You have to like Toronto and other places better.

I do. I like Toronto's stars a little more than I like their stars. I really do. I think they have the ability to outscore their top guys. They've shown the ability to do that in regular season. They were good against them last year. So Matthews over Kucherov for you. Yep.

And Marner over Point. That's a toss-up to me. I think those guys are almost the exact same level of stardom to me. Those two guys are really, really good. But I'd probably take Marner. You throw in a pile Matthews, Marner, Kucherov, and Point. Nylander over Stamkos. That's where we're getting better. Nylander, Tavares.

What's their 3-4? Stamkos and who? Paul, Killorn. You know, like just a deeper list of stars for Toronto. Who's the fourth best player in Tampa? Let me Google it. Braden Point, Nikita Kucherov, Stephen Stamkos, and I guess Sorelli or Hagel would be their next best guys.

Like it's an interesting conversation, but I think I'd still take the Leafs top be their best their next best guys like it's an interesting conversation but i think i'd still take the least top four guys over their top four guys quote unquote yeah i'm not so sure i like the grit factor yeah i know i mean you're basing it on results which is fair which is they've had literal results haven't done in fact it's hard it's hard for me to say that i'm right but they've legitimately beat the least the first round they've won two cups they're really good it's hard they're due they are due mentality i just i would i could i think it's a good conversation so if you were going to draft those guys if you put those let's just say you put those guys how who's going first overall out of all the stars matthews who's going second overall well then you got to do a tough call on

your hands don't you depends what you like yeah well braden point i tell you what matthews was an easier decision last year than this year yeah no doubt matthews, was he 16 goals? And Willie's at 18? I think this time last year, Matthews had 24 goals. It's just not the goals. It's just the overall look of a guy that's overpowering guys and dominating. That's the only thing that's kind of missing a little bit of the consistent look and some really good shifts in in washington you know i think part of toronto's slow start was that matthews really did not look like himself for quite a while like whatever you want to call it the first

eight ten games and then they switched the lines up and you know when by the time he started to really look good you know probably not getting quite as many of the type of passes as you do when you play with Marner. So probably compounding the statistical issue for him was the late start plus the line change. The more I think about this, I think Kucherov is the clear number two pick if you're drafting. Really?

Yeah. I love him too. Listen, I literally said on this show I wouldn't take him on my team, so it's a tough one for me. But, I mean, what, he scored 140 points at one year? He's won two cups. He's really, really good. He's gritty.

He's dirty, like you said. I think he might be the number two pick if you're drafting. He could be the one. You could talk him into being one. Yeah, you're right. Like, I've just talked myself into complete doom mode again here, boys up against the things that they've accomplished in the past that's exactly it compared to when's it over and i've said this before but the leafs aren't just playing against the team they're playing against they're playing against a team that is even more motivated

to not be the team that loses in the first round for the first time to this court. That's the thing. I'm sorry. That matters. It's the Leafs. There's a whole different kettle of fish they're playing with than other teams.

A win tonight would be a nice stocking stuffer for you, Sammy. Should we mention that we're not on the air after today? Yeah, probably. Not like ever again. Last show, guys. I did. But we are a little holiday break.

We're back on December 28th. That's one week from today. All right. All right. Thanks for letting me know. No problem, buds. I would have showed up here all by myself. me and gunner on tomorrow uh in this time slot no we won't be on

youtube but if you want to hear us all just we won't cry about the bolts winning tonight i don't say that come on yeah john cooper will have some smug things to say when the least winded i you know i just I think our guys are just, they're looking towards Christmas. We gotta get out of here. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We'll take a quick break. Mike Futa.

Futes. Futes. Did I say that right? You did. And this is my Christmas present. Oh, I can't wait to hear from him. We've had him muzzled since the last time he was on. Yeah.

Time to pull him out of the cage. Let him go. He's going to have a ton to say. My man. Okay. After the break and also Keith Jones in the second hour, you are watching and listening to real Kipper and born holiday season edition.

This is real Kipper and born on sports net five 90. The Van. Let's welcome in former NHL executive and Sportsnet hockey analyst, Mike Futa. Futes, how are you, pal? Thanks for joining us. I know on occasion we've asked you about a trade deadline, but what about a trade roster freeze around Christmas? Like, what's going on now? Because we know that the freeze will start tonight at midnight, if I'm not mistaken.

Is it a hectic time for a lot of clubs right now, or is there just no chance we're going to see much action? Great pronunciation, by the way, Kipper. Like, killed it. Buddy, I nailed it. And I had a glass of wine at lunch. That's what it took to loosen up the lips. Yeah.

Well, Kipper, I think there's too many teams still in it, and there's too many teams that have too high expectations on the outside looking in to see anything big before the trade deadline freeze. So I think it'll be quiet. I think it will get very busy, though, as it gets closer. But, no, it's just interesting listening to you guys. I'm just driving in for Hockey Central there

and thinking about this game and these two teams, how there's still so much left in the season, look like they're staring each other right in the sights again. And those Kingston Coopers clips there were just blowing me away. How you can possibly say, I would love to have that, and you can't turn back time because they've earned it, like three trips to the Cup in a row, two Stanley Cups. What his quotes are like if the Leafs had won one of those series.

So it's just such a different feel. And it's nice to respect your opponents. And obviously they've been three great teams over a period of time. I agree with you a hundred percent that it's like the, it's like the Bruins have got the band back together for one more kick they can. But for him to sit there and smugly talk about a team that has yet to win around.

And I love the way they're playing right now, by the way, in Toronto. But give me a break, Coop. Like, come on. Give me a break. You used to stick it to Anaheim and San Jose when you won your cups in L.A. I was employed at the time. I wasn't with the media. It wasn't in Toronto. I mean, I literally, I know it's, and he's such a classy guy,

Coop and stuff like that, but I look at this Toronto team and the way they're playing that, I mean, you guys said it. The dance is going to be told when the time is set. Like last year, we weren't supposed to care about the regular season, and they made us care by just throwing up points in the most magical regular season in history. Now this year, you know, we're not supposed to care about the regular season and they made us care. I just throwing up points in the most magical regular season in history. Now this year, you know, we're, we're not supposed to care. And all of a sudden they get off to a slow start and all of a sudden they

become this team that buys right in. Like they're an even keel. There's not, they're not playing up to their opponents, then playing down to their opponents. They're actually playing with injuries, a five man unit. They look like they cared offensively. They know Mitch Marner is breaking records and looking like a guy that should be nominated for either the Selke or be the Hart Trophy conversation. You've got two goalies that we all questioned in the offseason, other than the Leafs management, that have played so far very well.

And they seem committed to it. But the key is now is they've had a couple games where they haven't been at their best. Do they seem committed to it. But the key is now is they've had a couple of games where they haven't been at their best. Do they go back to that? We got to start, we got to start scoring and running gunners. And they stick, stick to the kind of style that Sheldon has been playing still,

you know, blow teams away with that potent power play, but you can't go back to that running gun style or Tampa will eat you alive in round one. Yeah. Hey Feuts, how much would conversations be happening right now about trades that'll happen two months from now?

Like the Leafs obviously need a little help in a couple of positions, maybe a left winger, maybe a D-man. Would they be in touch with other teams? Like, hey, if it gets to this, would you do that? Or does nothing really unfold until you get closer to the deadline? No, there's tons of talks going on, Borny. And, I mean, there's a certain grace period where, you know, you don't want to get in touch with teams because some of them didn't intend

on sucking as bad as they're sucking. So you don't want to get in touch with them. But, yeah, it's a tough call to make. You know, I asked the guy how his breakfast was and, you know, how's the family. And, by the way, you guys suck. You don't want your best player. But you move along the lines. and I found in junior hockey,

it blew me away because you could really make a trade, put it together in a couple of days based on the age of the kids, and there was no salary cap, and it was a good fit for both teams and whether it was a home count for a kid. But the NHL, the amount of road work that goes into a trade and the time that's put into one, now there are a couple that might get pulled off the last second but the groundwork is being put in uh the calls are being made i mean brian birch talked about this kind of thing at length i mean in lombardi used to just tell me that you get this get go sit and get out of the room because i was like

get it done get it done get it done and he's like you don't understand son these things take time you got to put the pieces in place and both sides have to be ready to pull the trigger. And that's what we can sit here as we do and talk about the Leafs. And I believe that they – I don't like the way that top six looks now. We've talked at length as much as I love the way Bunting's been playing. I'm more comfortable with both him and the guy that you so gracefully spoke about earlier there that's playing on the second line uh backing up and uh and playing on the third line on an nhl caliber team um i personally i like if you're talking about dream fits if you could make it happen salary cap wise

uh an ideal player for me would be a player of the Josh Anderson ilk, and I would vastly overpay for someone like that that has got some term that fits into your top six with a little bit more jam and the ability to score and skate with the big boys. And then, you know, if that means you have to use some of Muzz's salary cap space to free it up, you know you've got some hard decisions in the offseason, but you're much better for a built...

Your top six looks a lot more sturdy. You bring a physical element that can still skate and score and then go after a lesser ticket, so to speak. Like right now, I think Luke Shen's having an unbelievable bounce back season. Right shot deep, penalty kill, a little bit of jam. I don't think they need a Klingberg or one of these guys. They've got enough guys. The reason they're successful now is because the defensemen hardly have the

puck on their stick. They're just getting it to the forwards and following up the play. Less ridiculous, unnecessary jumping into the rush and leaving yourself and the hot man's going the other way. And I just think they need that safety valve to keep it moving with a little bit of bite in the back end. But the thing that's happened every year, just as the Leafs are trying to get better,

is the guy that's got the rings on his hand that Cooper was throwing rose petals at, Julian Breezeball adds to his team every year at the deadline too. So it'll be very interesting to see who pushes the envelope and kind of solidifies their roster as we get closer to trade deadline. Fuse, going into this week, the Leafs were 29th in the league in goals from defensemen. Luke Shen can't fix that. For me, Chipper doesn't bother me one bit.

I don't think they need that. I think part of the systematic problem is when you saw where their breakdowns are. And, I mean, I love Morgan Riley, and I think TJ Brody's been playing some great hockey. And I think where Mark Giordano has been so exceptional and looks like a throwback at whatever he's making, $800,000, is he is just, if there is an award given out this year for me,

the Norris Trophy, but with just a selkie component to it, not to take away the numbers, I think Mark Giordano's name would be in that conversation. He's playing so safe and efficient, shot blocker, and he's moving it up to the skilled players. I just don't think to pay that kind of money for a defenseman that's going to maybe give you one or two more goals. They seem to have a guy that can shoot the puck in Connor Timmons.

That's a nice pickup. I'm still not sure whether I want to see him. He's got plenty of time to improve himself. But if you can find somebody a little bit better to round out your top six, they might, whether they decide, get as good as Lilligren and Sandin have been. Some of those guys have bumped up their trade value and the possibility to get more of a veteran player. But the thing is, out there,

there's just so many teams that need the same thing. And who has the bullets to make the decision? And I'm not convinced that there's so many assets and that some of the Leafs might like their assets and some of these guys that have popped up for a cup of coffee and look decent. But you have to find a dance partner that feels the same way about that. And I don't, again, outside of the kid at Minnesota, I don't feel as great about what the Leafs have in the cabinet

to pull off a big move and not take a big piece out of their current roster. Dudes, how does the relationship with a capologist work as you try to make deals? Because right now everyone's mashed against the cap. Do you kind of do proposals with another GM, bring it to the guy, have him run the numbers? What's the involvement of a capologist in making

trades right now? Critical. Jeff Solomon was one of the best in the industry for us, but the key is, and Dean Lombardi was masterful of this, is capologists know how critical are this time of year so when you ask them a question about the cap, they want to answer it with a hockey idea and they want to give you their two cents

on what they think about the player and that usually leads with a shut the F up and tell me if it works under the cap. And Dean Lombardi used to just give me the numbers. I don't want to know whether you think he fits your slots in or who he plays with. Tell me whether it fits under the cap. If we win, your name's going on the Stanley Cup too, but shut up and tell me about the numbers.

And I'm sure there's other groups that are part of the negotiations and allowing the cap guy to have a little more say, but it can be a dangerous thing when he gets out and he starts to decide which piece fits best. Sometimes it's a nice blend, but I know we worked successfully because Solly was the best numbers guy. He had a good feel for it, and he could come back and say, Dean, this is what's going to work.

And it was never just what's going to work for tomorrow. It's what's going to work tomorrow it's going to be what's going to work for us for the next four or five years so you're not making decisions like that inside of a you know an hourglass we're joined by mike feud a former nhl los angeles king executive now doing terrific work on sportsnet as a hockey analyst so fe, how many deals in the past have you seen where you would start the work as early as, say, a Christmas break and take it to March and then have the rug pulled out from underneath your feet and have someone else come in and take the guy off the market that you were eyeing?

How often does that happen? And do you leave yourself vulnerable to not having a few oars or lines in the water? You've always got to have backup plans. I find that a lot more rug pulling goes at the draft. I mean, teams now, constantly teams in rebuild, they want to know the actual value of what a first-round pick is. So if you've got so many teams that are so congested that it could go from being, you know, the eighth pick in the draft

to the 26th pick in the draft, and the team goes on one of these seven-game runs, you want to have a better idea, especially when a pick's involved where it slots. You want to know where the player feels. I i mean teams that have players with no movement clauses or no trade clauses have to be very gingerly about how they i mean it'll be really interesting to see how things unfold in chicago you know with the two legendary players there with can and pays and how they approach them with those kind of decisions and, and players, they can make it work in your direction. Like I know for a fact that Marion Gabrick had full,

he had full movement and I talked about it at length when we, the reason we got such a sweet deal on, because we knew Marion was the only team that he was going to waive as no trade was to the Los Angeles Kings. So it kind of put them in a tough spot, but that's the life. So then we have given up a second. The other team involved was just not even going to get a sniff because he wasn't willing to move his no trade. You see that a couple of times last year,

I believe that was a little bit the case with, with Drew, where he ended up. I think he made it very, got a little ticked off. It was taking too long and made it a little bit tough run Philadelphia by really limiting where he would go. So there's a lot of that that comes into place too. And it's not always a given. Like, I mean, I know for a fact that there was a real hard-nosed defenseman that's playing for Colorado right now that's a great fit on a lot of teams

that turned down trades to Canadian markets before he ended up as a Colorado Avalanche. So it's a little discouraging when you have Canadian board players that have Canadian teams on their no-trade list, but it's just another factor that makes it so critical to get your ducks in a row and not only put all your eggs in one hat, but have a backup plan as well readily available. And I think those are the teams that are able to pull off those moves and

like a Tampa to be able to, you know, everybody's looking at some big, big pieces, and not that he's not a big piece to be able to have like a Nick Paul. That's like a huge deal for what he's brought to their table and what he's brought, not just for one year, but years to come. So there's so many different things to look into it. There's the worst feeling in the world. And I felt that last year in Carolina is having a team in first place and

sitting there with a coach that wants to reward your team, having all the assets to do it having the cap space to do it and having the players agreeing to come and then all of a sudden decide you're going to sit on it and do nothing to make your team better and then all of a sudden you see your team get caught a couple big injuries and you're stuck in a stationary bike race and you've wasted a year of some of your core player's time. If you've got a team that's got a chance to go for it, it's your job as your general manager without taking the future up to give

them a chance to win. And every dresser in the team that sees that done responds accordingly. So just to revisit the Marion Gabrick, when you know you're the only team that he will come to, do you go back to Minnesota and say, hey hey quit the crap okay we know

you know we know we had to and it was we had to do that because it wasn't in a tampering mode we were given the opportunity to speak with Marion and his agent and he basically said that I'm I'll accept the trade here but I'm not

accepting the trade there. And we had to say, listen, this wasn't – we had permission from you to speak to him. This was – you can ask him, but this is what we were told. There is no other team. So we can either walk away from this or we can – it was a pretty high second-round pick, so it wasn't like it was going spot-free.

I believe there was a component of it that they got a little bit extra if we won a couple rounds, so they got something for it. But there was no nefarious, you know, behind-the-scenes thing. We had asked for permission to the player they had given to us, and lo and behold, thank God we had that conversation because we now know we were bidding with nobody. What an error on their part, allowing you guys to do that. That's unbelievable.

When I look at some of these things, you know, these situations that ownerships and GMs get into, there's challenges when you've had success, you have a great core, and things are kind of slipping away. You're turning, things are, you know, players are getting older or whatever. Look at LA. You know, you guys had some of your important players get a little bit older and you're trying to stay good.

When you look at Pittsburgh right now or you look at Washington right now, how tough are the decisions and what kind of decisions are the challenges in trying to decide what comes next? Well, first off, they didn't get older. They got arrested. All right. That. OK, so it's and that and that makes things a little bit tougher because it's self-inflicted wounds. So I agree with you when, and in fairness, we had an opportunity and we should have, you know, we were still, the worst year for it was

we were kidding ourselves that we were still good enough. And we ended up trading a player named Richard Czernak when Quickie got hurt for the rights to Bishop. And Richard Czernak turned out to be a really talented player from Tampa Bay Lightning. So you've got to be real careful convincing yourself that sometimes you have to take it off the gas, especially when you have two cuffs in the cupboard,

and then you can still reload the following year. But we kind of blew our load when we didn't need to. Now, clearly teams like Pittsburgh and Washington, I'm not involved in those conversations, but just by the re-upping of Malkin and Letang, you know that they're all in for the next few years while these guys are still playing exceptionally well. And when OB's making public statements that I'm not part of a rebuild,

if I'm not part of it, clearly, you know, once they get healthy, they're going to be a force to be reckoning with. So you're going to see some teams drop back. you're going to see some times teams drop back. You're going to see some organizations that owe it to the promises they made to Crosby and to Lillitang and to the Ovechkins that we're going to try and add to the deadline and get you through the line, even though it might not look like it's a year to push. When it comes to the Washington Capitals and Pittsburgh,

can you imagine the pressure on the management side to hear two legends like Ovechkin and Crosby maybe reiterate to ownership that I'm not ready to let this thing go and what that would mean to Brian Burke and Ron Hextall? That's probably part of the process. I think any one of those teams particularly pittsburgh that would print part of the major when jimmy rutherford and moved on and hex came in i'm sure that was a huge part of the the job interview process that you better have a plan because we do have some aging superstars and we're not just going to get up to the you know we're just not

going to blindly walk up to the plate when it presents itself and make a rushed decision. You better be ready to have a plan in place and stick to your guns on it. You just can't move back and forth on it. Now, both those teams, I think an area that they like to look at it is when you watch Washington and you've got to make sure that these guys, their goaltending is up to, I mean, obviously Washington's had some huge injuries, and they didn't have incredible goaltending through the injury stage the way teams like Boston and, you know, Winnipeg have been able to hold on because their goalies have been outstanding.

It's been average, but now that they've got everybody back, they seem to be firing on cylinders, and those aren't teams you want to make in the first draft, play against in the first round because of their experience, but you also have to get there to be able to play somebody in the first round. It'll be very, very interesting to see whether the same general managers are continuing on in the rebuild if it doesn't go well this year. Godfuse, I hope

you saved something for Sportsnet Central because you just gave us the goods, man. I think it's downhill. I'm going to ask one thing, Kipper, really quickly. While it's going to be downhill, there's no question. I'm certainly going to need an but i'm looking at my lineup i just got named coach for the hockey day in canada team and the one thing they don't know about me kipper was there's a reason i was out of coaching i didn't do it on my own i was fired because i was and i sucked at it and i got into management and it was all about recruiting teams.

So I've got to build a team, and I'm looking right at Wendell Clark and Darcy Tucker as my first two picks, and I'm thinking of throwing Ken Reed in at center and just let his cup fall out, because you know how much he likes the tough going. I was surprised I didn't see your name on the list, Kipper, but I'm going to build an old-fashioned Toronto Maple Leafs team. Buddy, I'm fully retired, man.

You think I watch West Coast games? I can barely stay up for the third period in the East. Well, at least we can put one thing to bed, and I've heard your discussion there. The people that actually thought Maligan, after he scored that goal in exhibition, that Maligan for Marchment was a good trade. They can officially pass.

They can officially kick some rocks. They can officially pass the joint to the next guy. Oh, my goodness. Oh, feuts. Feuts. You're taking it to another level here on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show, and we absolutely love it. Thanks for doing this.

Appreciate it, guys. Enjoy your days off. Thanks, buddy. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Wow. doing this appreciate it guys enjoy your days off thanks buddy merry christmas merry christmas wow so you can tell he's doesn't really want a job the rest of the in the nhl he's going to be a an analyst now from here on then good because you know man brings it well you know he he's awesome oh yeah mad about that carolina stuff yeah yeah fair enough well listen it's they did nothing at the deadline last year you put work in you've got a professional opinion

you've got credibility and it's not appreciated yeah that yeah what am i doing here then 100 yeah what's what am i doing hey what do you think of anderson and joey anderson josh anderson he brought up josh anderson oh i was like joey what listen the man can skate the man could score the man can back teams off like yeah you get getting you get his engaged games and boy are they effective yeah once in a while i see him playing like is this guy the best power forward in the league he's one of those guys that's an eight million dollar guy that if he could be on all the time would be eight million dollars but he's on a quarter of the time so he's three million dollars no he's more i know the math on that doesn't have a five and a half when he's gone he's gone right do you there's a sense though that you've between now and march

there's there's a few holes that they like to kind of, I don't know if you can plug all of them or partial, but Kyle's got some work still on this roster. Definitely. Yeah. You know, it reminds me of you talking about how your team was in first when you guys made a bunch of trades because you weren't good enough. Being good isn't good enough.

We had major surgery in 1994 at the trade deadline. Saw it off a limb. We were the number one team. So yeah, no, you're not just because you're doing well doesn't mean you're not looking to get better. How scared were you of that deadline, Kipper? I just hid in the bathroom.

I was like Stewie We're going to trade someone else Who was it? I don't see them Where did Stewie hide? In the sauna? In the steam room

Yeah Look in the steam room I guess Stewie must have gone home We'll send him down tomorrow Yeah I don't know if it ever worked Yeah that was It's harder now for sure That was a free-for-all for general managers to

trade and move guys in move out no money involved no cap i know we're going to break i just want to ask did you see what the phoenix sun sold for today i did not do you want to guess yeah uh 1.3 billion four billion dollars basketball team yes four billion dollars is that a big that's is that considered a one of the biggest markets sammy was talking it up like it is but listen i lived in phoenix it's a there's there's a fairweather town there's a few teams that like kind of matter it's in the western conference they got a good team i you know how far is it from la it's a big market right yeah that's you know a big tv market them uh guy the mortgage

guy be a billionaire mortgage lender he used to play in a used to play in the ncaa he won the national championship with uh tom is those is there any chance that you can marry the sons? To the sins? Sorry? The sons to the sins? No, no. The sons to the coyotes for a sharing kind of partnership or no. They don't want that. They don't want that?

No. Because it helps with buildings and it helps. Yeah. Like the Raptors and the Leafs are together with Bell and Rogers. Yeah. Yeah, I don't want that? No. Because it helps with buildings and it helps. Yeah. Like the Raptors and the Leafs are together with Bell and Rogers. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I think it's unlikely. Yeah.

He just wants them to stay there, whatever. Whatever it takes. At all costs. Whatever it takes, baby. Oh, they're not going anywhere. Why not? Okay, we don't need to get into this. Move them to Vaughn and they're selling out 20K every night.

Okay. One more break and then we got Keith Jones, former NHL or hockey analyst for TNT. What do you got in the background on me, Derek? I'm not leaving. Oh, that's the wolf on Wall Street. There you go. There you go. I'm not leaving.

I'm not leaving. I need to watch that again. There you go. There you go. I'm not leaving. I'm not leaving. I need to watch that again. That's awesome. I'm not f***ing leaving. Okay. Keith Jones, after the break. Thanks for sticking around on Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. I need a few minutes just to kind of regroup off of that hit from Mike Futa.

Was that because he was passing the joint? Is that what it was? Drugs involved. We had arrests involved an F-bomb well not a real F-bomb but a fake F-bomb it was compelling radio

it's good stuff from Feutz as always for sure what is that? counting money? Derek has so many great drops. I'm like, what is wrong? I'm starting to really be slow to his drop-ins. He's got a wide range.

It's always fun for us, just like everyone else. Pressure on Keith Jones right now. Is there? Real pressure. We had Mike Feud on, and he's gone to another level. Completely Jonesy. Hey, what's happening? I just caught the end of that.

How are you guys doing? You haven't missed a thing, my friend, when it comes to this show. Trust me. Beautiful. How's the schedule? It's busy, buddy. It's busy. I got a bunch coming right now.

I got Columbus tonight at home against the Flyers, and then I've got TNT tomorrow night, Edmonton and Dallas. And then I got a quick trip to Toronto for that 2 o'clock game on Thursday afternoon. I'm just hoping I make it, to be honest with you. And then I got a game Friday night with the Flyers back in Carolina, and then I get a couple days off for Christmas. So, Jonesy, here in Canada,

we kind of roll our heads every once in a while when we hear stuff out of Vancouver. Is it the same south of the border when it comes to the Philadelphia Flyers? Yeah, I think there's a lot of conversation about the team. Probably more than there was even last

year. And last year. And last year, they were a lot worse. They were blowing out on numerous occasions. This year, they're in every game. They're tied in the third period or down by one every time they step on the ice. And then the majority of the games, they end up losing. But they're a lot more interesting. And they've got a head coach that keeps them interesting and you know his plan is to get them better through this year and build for next

and kind of do it on the fly and you know so far the wins aren't there but the competitive side of the team is far far greater than it was in the past so So to inspire some of that, Jonesy, he recently scratched Kevin Hayes, I believe, leading the team in scoring. Where do you fall on the side of scratching a prominent player like that on a team that's kind of struggling as is? I'm surprised that he scratched him only because the game before,

he benched him in the third period against the Devils. And the Flyers won the game. So I was curious where he would go from there. You know, he sat on the bench. They won. So what do you do? What message do you send to the rest of the players on your team? And some of those players have been scratched before, including Tony D'Angelo.

Some have been benched for a period before, like Travis Konechny. And I wondered if he would take the next step with it, and he took the next step with it. And then it became more news than it probably would have had he put Hayes back in the lineup. But that's John Tortorella. You know, his messaging is with a purpose, and he's going to do whatever it takes to try to get everybody on the same page.

And at some point, he's going to ruffle feathers. But he's not worried about it. He's going to coach the team the way he wants to coach it. Josie, Chuck Fletcher is the general manager there. You assume when the Flyers or Chuck signed Tortorella, it was to add a face to the Flyers in transition years. And maybe he could rekindle the interest. I know sellouts were an issue.

No question that he became, in many ways the face this the moment they signed him but it doesn't appear like at least there's a a fan base there that are buying in that that chuck gets this time as well to rebuild um there's there's a lot of people that you know in flyer land that want to see a change at a general manager is he feeling that pressure? does he have pressure on him? is his job on the line there?

I would say without question and I do think it's 100% accurate that the fans are fine with Tortorella but they have not given Chuck Fletcher any room. I mean, he is under the gun here without question. And he's got a guy in the wings in Danny Breer that's, you know,

just sitting there kind of as his assistant right now, gaining all kinds of experience. And there's many Flyer fans that I think are hoping that danny breer becomes the general manager at some point uh so i would say there's there's no doubt that there is this is a high pressure situation but the problem that chuck has is this team's not going to win a lot of games this year based upon the talent that's in the lineup and based upon the injuries to you know some of the players that you would be expecting to help this team you know battle for a playoff spot like couturier and like atkinson who's now is out for the season and like ryan ellis who's played four games for the

flyers since they acquired him a year and a half ago do Keith, I've got some questions about the, I guess the tri-state area and looking at teams, you know, not Philadelphia, but looking at the Rangers, the Islanders and the Devils there, trying to figure out who's what. You know, I'm an Islanders guy, kind of born into it, but the Rangers started slow. They're coming on.

They've won seven in a row. The Devils have lost five in a row. What do you make of those three teams? How do you see them seeded by the time the season comes to a close? I think the Rangers and the Islanders are two teams that would be very difficult opponents to go up against if the playoffs rolled around. I think the Rangers demonstrated that last year. The Islanders going back a couple of seasons ago before they kind of laid an egg last year i think there are teams that you would have your hands full and trying to beat the seven

game series i don't think the devils are there yet i think the devils you know have shown flashes of being a young and exciting team they remind me a little bit about the way anaheim started the season last year you know where they were in the news a lot where they had some highlight reel goals where they were winning some games and then the wheels kind of fell off i don't think the devils are going to fall off as dramatically as anaheim did they're obviously not in the mode where they're going to be selling players like the ducks did last year i think they think they're going to hang in the battle, but they would be the team that worried me the least if I was trying to prepare for a playoff series against them.

Jonesy, can Washington now, off the momentum of an Ovechkin push here with history, Nick Backstrom looking like he's got more of a reason to believe that he can resume his career than months before. Tom Wilson coming back. Are they in the hunt here? Yeah, they are in the hunt. Anytime you add Wilson to the lineup, a hunt's a good word. Because, you know, he's going to be out there making sure things are happening

out there. The Cavs have hung in. They've had a lot of injuries as well, but they've got a really good head coach, they've got some defensemen that appear to really be coming into their own, like Trevor Van Riemstuyck, who

Lavi can't stop raving about how well that he has played for them. Gustafson scored some big goals, including the other night. I think Orlov had an overtime winner. Jensen looked good. Yeah, I think they have some veteran defensemen that if they get some of these forwards healthy and start getting players slotted in the right position, I think they're going to be a problem.

And like Pittsburgh, those teams seem to at least hang in there enough to make the playoffs. Neither has made much noise recently in the playoffs, but would I be surprised if Washington was a playoff team? No, not at all. You know, the Alex Ovechkin chase is uh you know has been fascinating to watch are you you know seeing his progression over his career what are your thoughts on how his game has changed from when he was a young man to now you know he does score more goals in tight

than he used to it was always you know crosby always owned that area. Tavares, another guy that's always been great in and around the crease area. Ovi has not been, but he's better at it now. He's also more reliable, and coaches are going to put him out there when the goaltenders pulled to, you know, maintain a lead and hopefully score an empty netter, which he's been racking up, you know, a lot of this year. He would normally not be out in those situations back in the day before he matured into the captain that he is today.

But he still has the shot and he still has the strength. I don't think he runs around as frequently as he did before, and that's a good thing. But he's still a threat to throw that hit at any time. It's very difficult for teams to try to match up against him because he has all the dimensions of a power forward. And he scored 800 goals the hard way. He's not a player that's shy to get into high-traffic areas.

I have a great appreciation for everything he's done. And for a former cap like Nick as well, you know, we played at the cap center when, you know, half the crowd would be penguins fans when you played the penguins on the playoffs or flyer fans. And now they rock the red because of Ovechkin. He sold the game in Washington and a market that wasn't necessarily selling out every night.

He put them on the map, and he's kept them on the map. I watched parts of the Capitals and Red Wings last night. They found a way to pull it out, 4-3. Ovi did not score. But there was a part of me that watched the game long enough wondering, can this get exhausting for the guy in the next year and a half, two years? Like at times it's great to be a part of that, but it may be physical, emotionally, you know,

draining here in the next little while. Is there any chance of that happening or Ovi's just above and beyond that, just his mentality. I think his mentality is above and beyond it. I mean, you think about a guy who's had so many opportunities for milestone goals and he's always come through, you know,

whether it's 50 in a season, 60, whether it's his 500th, 600th, 700th. I mean, he's, he mean, he goes through them all. So he's been through it. I don't think he's going to slow down.

He's got a target, and I think that's what's going to motivate him. And I think the league today is built in such a way, unlike when Gretzky played where we made up rules to try to slow him down, we put rules in play now that are there for offensive players to, you know, pick up more opportunities to score, whether it's a face-off on the power play, starting in the offensive zone for the first face-off, whether it's, you know, being out there in situations for empty net goals, penalties are called more frequently for the hooking and the holding.

I just think there's a lot more ways to produce offensively, and I think that Ovechkin's going to benefit from that, and I think he's going to pass reps. One more for us, Jonesy, and tonight the Leafs in Tampa Bay. I know we're not even at the halfway mark of the regular season, but everybody's got this one penciled in in the first round. So what do you take out of a game like tonight? Well, they were so close last year, right?

It looked like Toronto was going to get past them. Tampa's not as good as they were last season. The Leafs are the same. So the edge should go to Toronto. You know, this is an important, more important game for the Leafs than it is for Tampa any time those two teams meet. And, you know, for Toronto, they want to keep, you know, gaining confidence by beating the teams that they're going to have to beat

when the playoffs roll around. So if I was a Leaf fan, I would have, you know, a high emphasis on winning the game. And for the Lightning, it's just another game. The Leafs aren't there yet in their eyes. So for Toronto, you want to step up and measure yourself against a team that has been the thorn in the side of pretty much every team in the NHL with the exception of Colorado last year.

Not to put salt in an open Sammy wound here, but you did call for the Leafs on our show in that first round to come back and win game seven. Do you remember that? Oh yeah, I remember it. I believe I would actually, I was surprised. I was very surprised that they did not. So I might have to revisit that this year if they play again all right sammy you hear that yeah great yeah great jonesy always a pleasure man happy holidays the best to you and your family okay have a safe one thanks guys appreciate it have a happy holidays you too all right that's keith jones does a

terrific job south of the border do you guys uh do christmas parties every year in the nhl american league oh yeah there's always something a little smaller sponsored or a little smaller budget yeah than nowadays or compared to the nhl one yeah oh yeah the american league version yeah yes i will say when i was at the marley's we had um jonathan bernier was on the team yeah and his wife's i assume a model of some variety just a guess um but the two of them came to our american league party while he was down and i don't know he must have been wearing a $16,000 suit or something. And her outfit was not cheaper than that. And seeing that at an American League party, he was like, you guys should just go back to the NHL. You shouldn't be here.

This is not, you should not be here. I'm in my three-year-old Indochino suit. No disrespect to Indochino. What was he making back then? Four and a half million or something. Oh, only four and a half. I don't know. He was doing all right so yeah

handing out christmas presents to everybody that year we did have quite a few people at milan mahalik brooks like we had like a bunch of guys with money come down sitting in a stall some echl kid making 60k so the the big thing for many of the teams is if you got called up from the minors, that you just needed to stick around long enough to get an NHL present. Oh, yeah. From the team. Yeah. And for the Leafs, a lot of years, it was two airline tickets anywhere. I was there.

That's a great gift. Which was a huge deal. Yeah. Of course. Anywhere? Yeah, pretty much anywhere. Yeah. Of course. Anywhere? Yeah, pretty much anywhere. Oh, I'd be flying the furthest possible. You'd fly me around the globe and back.

Fly me to Winnipeg, but go east. Alaska. No, I'd be going to like Australia or New Zealand. Yeah, I'm not sure. Maybe it was a... Fiji. I can't remember if there was a North American cutoff. I'm not sure. Yeah. was a... Fiji. I can't remember if there was a North American cutoff. I'm not sure.

Yeah. No, that's good. That's true. The pro hockey presents were always pretty decent. You feel like you got luggage one year. And then send me down after I get the presents. Well, but also if you get there for Christmas, you usually get a break so you get to stay up

and get an extra few days on the paycheck, I imagine. That's a nice perk. Very nice perk. Yeah. Very nice perk. All right, where do you want to go we did discuss jack campbell a little bit is there just a chance that this could be an off year for him and they're just gonna have to suck it up yeah i mean i do think there is a chance and

you know you hope that with having the length of the contract allows him to get comfortable find the best version of himself you can't beat yourself up for five years i don't think i say to many people who have probably done that to themselves but like the guy surely is going to get comfortable he's better goalie than this pathetic the way i've been playing are we are we sure about that no we're not i don't know i think the the leafs helped him out with their underrated defense? You know, I looked at the Leafs' defensive numbers last year. Sorry to cut you off. No, you're good. But I looked into them because I was like,

boy, the Leafs are really good defensively this year. They were really good last year too. They've been a good defensive team for some time now. Do you think that maybe a phantom neck injury for old Jack. Maybe set him down to get a conditioning stint, give him a couple weeks off here, go down and play a couple games in the AHL, and then come back up.

No, because he knows. It's his psyche that needs work, and he knows. That's what I think. So was it you that said the Pacific Division sucks earlier? Yeah, I said that literally yesterday. Yes. Okay. It sucks.

There are seven goalies in the Pacific Division with a cap hit of at least $5 million. Wow. All of them sub 900 save percentage. Really? Okay. Okay. Unbelievable coincidence. Quick. Really? Okay. Okay. Unbelievable coincidence. Quick. Yes.

One. Quick. Obviously, Campbell. Two. Markstrom. Three. Demko. Four.

Peterson, the other LA goalie. Five. Peterson, good one. Josh Gibson. John Gibson. John Gibson. Who's Josh Gibson? Seattle is Grubauer.

There it is. Seven. Yeah. Wow. God, who's good? Does anyone have a good goalie? I think the best one is Logan Thompson. Yeah, Logan Thompson.

Stu Skinner's doing well. There may never be another $10 million goalie ever again. Oh, man. Just crippling for the goalie union. They need their big money guys to play, to be good. Right? To justify the big dollars, boys. That hurts.

I think I saw something last night in the NHL that I've never seen before, Kipper. Is it Labouche can get exploded? Well, maybe that. That one defies physics. I don't really know what even happened. Do you the kale yeah kale deferred the penalty said it wasn't a penalty so if you didn't see this last night kale mccarr takes the puck behind his own net matt bargezals on his back shoulder or sorry on his back skate puts a stick on mccarr's shoulder not a hook just like puts it there a piece of them you got a piece. Makar loses an edge

with his feet, goes down, ref's arm goes up. Makar literally waves it off, skates over to the referee and goes, no, no, no, I fell on my own. Ref goes on the mic and says, there was no penalty on the play. Makar must have been like he didn't do it. No power play for the Avs. Yeah.

Yeah. Easily explainable. What do you mean? Well, today, you can't get away with that if you're a player. There's too many cameras. And if, in fact, he wouldn't have said anything and he would have gotten a penalty, he would have got ripped. Absolutely ripped. For being a diver?

Yes. Or, you know, his integrity would have been questioned. So actually, he did it because he's smart enough to say that I'll never get away with it. I'd like to get away with it, but I am smart enough to say that there's there's four or five angles right now that they'll know for sure that and it doesn't even matter whether or not he fell on purpose or not right the perception would have been if there would have been a penalty that kale

went down like a bag of feathers and bobby or would never do that. You're out of my good books. He, you know, he actually felt pretty rough about it. He says the ref who called it wasn't the guy at center ice. He was kind of behind the net on the far side. I don't think he had a good angle on it. He just saw me fall. I would like to think most times I fall.

It's usually because someone trips me that one. I just lost an edge. I felt, I felt pretty guilty for the boys there. So he said he wished he hadn't done it. He says you know, I probably won't do that again. I don't know if I would have done the same says Matt Barzal.

But that's what happens though. And if you're in a playoff series and you fake like you got clipped and you didn't, you're done. Like Tampa? Like Tampa. Like Tampa.

Which one in particular, super fan? The camp one. He faked it. Hit him in the shoulder. Didn't get him. Head snap back. Just like that. That's right, too.

I forgot about that. You have like a weird memory about hockey games. Oh, yeah. I mean, the crippling moments in my sports fandom. Yeah, I remember them all pretty well. But I disagree. Like, it's not like it was a dive. slipped and the ref thought it was a trip and you put your team at a disadvantage by saying it's not a penalty you go with your head down you go to the bench and you take the

two-minute power play you try to score a goal to me it's absolutely yeah i don't know i think his first feeling was that that like i'll get i'll get exposed i'll get called i'll get called out i'd say all this publicity it's garnered kale is for the better oh no 100 you know because now we're talking about next time kale goes down the refs be like well we know he's legit you know like maybe it buys him a call down the road he will never get an embellishment call the rest of his career based on that you need to get lady bing votes based on that but we now know that if in fact someone fakes a clip or something we've seen it in the past already have we not oh we've seen bunting have to go through some adjustment i'm talking something way more are you talking egregious okay that just not even close yeah like really obvious i don't know i i probably need to

see last night's a few more times but i think it was really obvious that he fell on his own yeah he didn't get hooked down there's no no doubt about it. That's on the ref. I agree. Yeah, listen. And there's lots of times you should get a call and you don't, so do you say it just evens out? There is an argument that that's not on me. That's not my job.

It's not. To tell you what's legit or not. You're paid to do that. I'm not paid to make your decision. Listen, I mean, all their good players on their team are hurt. So it's probably not going to be the guy on their amalgam who just arrived being like,

hey, best defenseman in the league. Maybe don't do that. But if I was his teammate, like I was his buddy, if I'm McKinnon, I'd be like, hey, man. Yeah. Maybe just let that one ride. I want a couple cookies here in the power play. And what's funny is we're not even discussing

the fact that should you be able to do that? it's never should you be able to go over to a ref and say i don't like your call on that one i you know it wasn't actually a penalty and then have the ref change his mind but that's it has never happened the other way no right where a guy goes to a ref and you're like i didn't hack him that wasn't wasn't a penalty. And the guy's like, didn't Mark Ciodano do this once? Mark Ciodano once talked a ref out of a penalty, I feel like. Maybe it's one for a million. Ovi. Somebody sent me Ovi.

Waves off a penalty after falling easily to the ice. And if you're the ref, isn't that showing you up a little bit? Just let it go? i think at this point refereeing so sensitive right now that they just i don't know they'll take all the help they can get i guess get it right all right um looking around the nhl the bruins beat the panthers hung seven goals on the panthers the panthers man

panthers are have been caught and passed by the buffalo sabers you see some of the goals on spencer knight they're going through him yeah stinky ones real stinky right bergeron shot two in the armhole he scored he had four points last night by the way it's not like they're in the fire paul maurice i'm sure they gave him a lot of money in a lot of years so yeah i don't know man it's it's gonna be i know a lot of people are talking about this but there's probably gonna be only three teams from the atlantic in the um in the playoff picture that would give the islanders hope because i guess i guess unless you're a Buffalo truther, which we have been in years past or days past in the show,

and Paige Thompson now second. Plus 18 goal differential for the Sabres. Florida's zero, even. Boston has to cool down. They got to lose three or four in a row somewhere. I don't know. No, I'm with kipper this is they're good but they're not four losses and 30 games good i didn't guys i really don't know like it's just it's really really

upsetting yeah it's really upsetting that in a year that we've talked about them going in it being a down year and have it being the most up year of all time, and then Tampa being good still. I know we talked about this in the first block, but it really, really stings. What do the Boston Bruins have to pay Pasternak? Oh, so much money. It's funny, though.

That conversation never really comes across the table. It's always, what are they going to pay Willie in two years? Well, let's have it. Pasternak going to give them a little bit years well let's let's have it pastor not going to give them a little bit of a discount probably you'll probably take league men 750 and haunt you yeah you'll be like another six years eight years one million per i have a question though like what if draft kings goes to david pasternak and says hey we'll give you 13 million a year we have a an agreement with boston boston's gonna pay you 1 million

you know could you ever there's supposed to be a you know a mechanism to stop teams from doing that yeah you know i we definitely don't see it circumvention first of all of course it is but but i i gotta think you're right there's ways to hide it you don't think the leafs did something with giordano today you know and that's interesting like you know if anyone the leaf should be able to be yeah, we can set you up with a sponsorship arrangement. A job. Sign for league minimum. Oh, after. For Spetsa. Spetsa's got a job.

Yeah. Right. Come sign with us for minimum and we'll talk about what your salary is. You'll also make 500 as a front office guy next year. We've got 800 people working for us. What's 801? You know, the thing that killed me when I was with the Marlies was learning that, like, wait, the Leafs are playing, like,

Jacques Caron and Jacques Lemaire and, you know, all these special advisors and Cliff Fletcher was, you know, they had, like, all these guys that would just, like, come around once every, like, three months. They collected a paycheck from the org. They're listed in the official whatever. I don't think the consultations were that frequent or yeah they just collect your check man so i'm just looking at uh comparables for david pashman cap friendly does

such a great job with these comparables uh vanaren is the number one guy number one comparable is johnny gaudreau according to cap friendly 94 match i guess the point is there isn't a comparable yeah like that's i mean that's this so it's that was in calgary last year so that's with the contract or whatever william neilander on there can i tell you i watched johnny goodrow i bet on columbus the other night so i watched them play dallas and i watched goodrow they're up one nothing kind of puke one away on the empty net to jason robertson and kind of not really care i don't know that's a tough team to watch columbus right now i know they're they weren't great and they're hurt and

it's a bad spot and it's a tough year but man like david what did stutzla get seven plus suits at rfa years not yeah no but they bought they bought a couple ufa years that's enough to to bring it up sure but if there's some rfa years and that's enough to bring it down too it's not a comparable because you're straight ufa for pasternak i bet you they come in at eight years nine and a half mil or nine mil for pasternak you think that's i bet you ain't getting it done. I just have a feeling. He's not going to. Stutzler got $8.3 million, by the way, for eight years.

Yeah, and Pasternak's far better and no RFA years. Just to me, that sort of organization and their internal cap stuff. He's on the number one line in the the past however long he's been around like him marchand and bergeron have been regarded as the number one line the only man who can stop david pasternak is dryden hunt with the shoulder so shoulder of doom yeah you've seen the hit there's a clip he's we ran him this year he's not in tonight sammy he's not in tonight, Sammy. He's not playing tonight. So you think David Patrick's going to get $12 million?

Well, no, I don't. 11 and a half? It's up to him. Can't get less than Panarin. If he wants it, he may have to leave. Like Columbus would give him 12. I have no doubt in my mind. Absolutely.

So what do you think Boston's number for him is then? I think they'd like to get him around Charlie McAvoy at 10 in that little area, that neighborhood. But I think he's going to a bigger neighborhood. Yeah. He's moving to Kipswood. Yeah. And you can't forget, too, that all those guys are coming off devalued contracts.

Like, what was Pasternak? He's making 6.6. For how long was he making that? I don't know. Five years? Yeah. See, he's tired of it. Yes.

Right? And so is Marchand. Tired of seeing your guys worse than you getting paid twice. Bergeron, like, missed the $10 million boat, but he doesn't care. You know he should have been a $10 million player. Yes. So he can't hit that. But those guys aren't going to waste their opportunities to hit it.

I wonder if he does want to get $12 million or more than Panarin, 11.61. I wonder if he would go play somewhere else, depending on his priorities. Yeah, in those years that they've had him under contract for $6.6, since 2017, 2018, 35, 38, 48, 20 goals in 48 games, 40 goals in 72 games, 21 and 31 this year. Decent value on that contract i think he discussed you know with himself uh his family his agent that if i'm gonna take less it is

minimum 10 and a half yeah yeah. Yeah, we're talking about a million less. Maybe 11. Yeah. So, fellas, Christmas vacation ahead here. Got a little bit of a break. Sammy, what's on tap for you? So, I am flying to Las Cabos, Mexico on Thursday morning. What could possibly go wrong? I have been seeing some videos float around my social medias about uh traveling to parts of uh the world uh from pearson airport i really do think it's going to be a miracle if i get out on time so thursday night they're predicting a weather bomb according

to the weather wise or no just the challenges of pearson international a little of both because i feel as though my window is exactly the scheduled time for the flight. I think it's a 9 a.m flight that we're taking off and if that baby gets delayed by a few hours the weather starts flowing in. If we don't get out on time I feel like we may not get out. I may just be having a white Christmas. Did you see that yeah it's like a big weather issue starting? Are your kids coming home for the holidays? Yeah. They're going to be in a while before Thursday, though. Okay. So, yeah.

I'm really, really hoping that I get out on time, but I do have my concerns. I hear stories of people at Pearson that can see their luggage and they can't get it. Really? Yeah. It's on the other side of the counter. I don't know whether or not it's been cleared or not or what the issues are. Just give me that, please.

But they're like, can you just walk over there and just grab my bag for me and I'll quietly leave. I'll just be on my way. I won't name the company I'm flying with, but there was a video that I trickled into my feed that was a group of at least 250 people chanting f you airline so we'll see how things go boys nothing like a vulgar airport sporting event and i'm traveling with my mom my dad uh my sister my nephews my brother-in-law my wife

could be tense oh man well god i hope you get out when you want to get out sometimes it goes better than your worst case scenario you've got a tea off time down there too right yeah i got two two tea times you're not taking your clubs oh yeah oh kiss them goodbye oh my god i've heard the airlines are really good at folding them up to make them fit in small spaces. Your new Cobras. Oh, yeah. It's not just me.

Everybody is taking their clubs. It's going to be a disaster, boys. I know it already. That's fine. I'm going into it with low expectations. We are the family traveling with two kids under six years old who have to bring Christmas presents with us. Oh, boy. In the boxes still, right?

Oh, my God. So we have an extra suitcase of those that have to come home as well. Please tell me you're not assembling on the road. Well, some of it, yeah. Oh, my God. Is that a disaster? Oh, it's a total disaster. We are going to be that family at the airport that other families see and go, oh, thank God, that's not us.

This phone has made things so simple in our lives, but they cannot fix the instructions to assemble things. It's gotten worse. I'm like, I don't even see the shape of this thing. They didn't send me the thing that's shaped like this on the piece of paper. You know, actually today I got Sammy for Christmas. I got him a Costco membership. Do you know that? Which is a splendid gift.

I was really excited about it. He gets the box. It's got a tote inside. He's married now. He can go do the Costco thing. And there's just no gift thing in it. No card. No card in it.

I was like, I really appreciate that tote bag. Thanks for the tote bag. Yeah. So, yeah. No, that's the thing. We'll get there and we'll find out what we're missing. And see if the elf on a shelf travels. He could use it when he comes back and he needs to buy new clubs.

Kirkland wedges. How's the Kirkland driver? Kirkland bag. Kirkland balls. Warrior Womp on YouTube says, Sammy stars in the new Home Alone movie. Who says yes? Yes. Exactly. All right. Run, run, Rudolph. Warrior Womp on YouTube says, Sammy stars in the new Home Alone movie. Who says yes? Yes, exactly.

Run, run, Rudolph! Our thanks to Mike Futa, Keith Jones, and all of you loyal listeners out there, whether it's on YouTube, Spotify, iTunes, Sportsnet 590, The Fan. We are so grateful for a tremendous 2022. Are we back before New Year's? You and I are. Sammy's not.

See you the 28th. Love you, boys. Merry Christmas, everyone. Happy holidays. All the best from Real Kipper and Bourne.