Real Kyper & Bourne - Making Sense of the NHL Season with Mark Messier

Episode Date: October 31, 2023

Hockey Hall of Famer Mark Messier joins Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne to chat about the L.A. Kings' strengths with their centremen, the importance of getting a good start to a team's season, how dept...h in scoring gives an edge to a chase for a Stanley Cup, why the New York Rangers are a sleeper team to come out of the Eastern Conference, and his experience dealing with struggles when he was playing for the Edmonton Oilers. Then, Nick, Justin and Sam McKee wrap up the show by discussing the Pittsburgh Penguins initiating a neck guard mandate. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Transcript
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Starting point is 00:00:00 welcome to the national hour unreal kipper and born nick kiprios justin born sammy mckee what a jam-packed show for three guys with no halloween costumes that won't sap our energy because we're going to our second hall of famer. Joining us now, Mark Messier, six-time Stanley Cup champion, ESPN hockey analyst, and the guy we can blame for an 8 p.m. start local here in Toronto. Moose, what's going on, pal? There you go. What's going on?
Starting point is 00:00:39 How's it going, guys? We're good. How are you? Is this another frozen frenzy tonight with a 8 PM local start here, Toronto and LA. This is going to feel like a walk in the park today after the frozen frenzy. We got one game tonight, ESPN and I am dressing up for it. I am going in. They, you know what a Kipper, what was that? Every year for Halloween? Elvis. You are the king, my friend. Now, is this, I can't, you and PK, you're
Starting point is 00:01:10 cooking something up for sure. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We got a nice little fun gig going here tonight. So it's Halloween. We got to celebrate Halloween. The best team party and team sports. Well, I know it was a much bigger deal. Like when my dad played with the Islanders,
Starting point is 00:01:25 I always saw the pictures of the parties. Everyone was done to the nines. Was this like, tell me about partying on Halloween in New York city as a member of the Rangers. This is where mess would really take control. Like I said, it was the best team party of the year is right after training camp.
Starting point is 00:01:40 Everybody had their head down, kind of getting ready for the season. Then you start the season. You don't really have time to kind of socialize too much. And so this is one time at the start of the season where everybody can kind of relax, come to the party and put their costumes on and really kind of do some team building.
Starting point is 00:01:58 So I really enjoyed it. We used to have a really high prize, the great prizes for first place. And Kipro was always in the running. He had good costumes. Appreciate it, pal. Tonight, the LA Kings, Toronto Maple Leafs featured game on ESPN. Of course, as we mentioned, you got to have a real appreciation for the Kings, Mark, and the strength down the middle.
Starting point is 00:02:20 Of course, all those years with Edmonton and new york winning winning cups here you look at copetar you look at philip denot and then recently added uh pierre luc de bois your thoughts on the kings yeah big big strong team again uh you know they probably one of the hardest working teams in the national hockey league they all play hard away from the puck they're in pursuit all the time. They put a lot of pressure on teams. I think Kopitar is, I'm not sure if you can say he's underrated or underappreciated,
Starting point is 00:02:52 but to me, when I watched him play in the New York Rangers in the Stanley Cup finals, he dominated the game. Big, strong centerman. Every team wants a centerman like Kopitar. He's got all the skills, plays in every area of the game, every situation. Five on three, three on five, kills penalties, big face-offs, and, of course, having that strength down the middle,
Starting point is 00:03:11 and then you back him up with Dubois, who's just as big and maybe just as talented. But, yeah, the Kings have got a nice-looking team, and they've been kind of being a nuisance for a lot of teams in the West, and as we've seen in the past, they're not an easy out in the playoffs. Matt, just at the start of the year here, as teams maybe lose a few more than expected or win a few more than expected,
Starting point is 00:03:33 how much weight do you put on October, on the first few weeks? Is it crucial that you come out with a good start? Because I look at a team like the Penguins, the Flames and Oilers, teams that we thought were probably playoff teams who are way behind the eight ball is that you know crushing for them to have come out so slowly it I wouldn't say it's crushing but it's going to put a lot of pressure on them if they don't get it straightened out pretty quickly as we've seen anybody that's been out of the playoffs almost come Thanksgiving American Thanksgiving has been hard to climb back into that playoff picture so yeah getting off to a good start is critical for these teams and
Starting point is 00:04:09 you know if you can get yourself in a good position it lasts 40 games and then just play 500 hockey it's it's it's it takes a lot of stress a lot of pressure reduces a lot of injuries and but if you're trying to make up four or five games in the second half of the of the season that's going to be a total task especially with the emergence of uh detroit ottawa buffalo who are going to be taking points away from these teams in the east um i don't know i i like i said i don't think you can win the stanley cup in october but you can certainly play yourself out of the position and then it's hard to get back into position. We're joined by Hall of Famer
Starting point is 00:04:47 Mark Messier. The Leafs coming off a decent road trip where they were able to get 7 out of 10 points, but a lot of people, including us, know that they haven't hit any type of high note yet to start the season. Just your thoughts
Starting point is 00:05:03 on the Leafs and still what seems to be the dependency on Matthews and Marner to score and where you see Tavares and Nylander maybe picking up a lot of that slack as well. Yeah, you need your star players to be star players the way the system is set up right now where you're heavily laden in the salary cap with your star players, and then you're bringing in younger players and role players to fill in.
Starting point is 00:05:30 So, yeah, they do have to perform, and there's a lot of pressure on them to perform. But as we've seen with some Stanley Cup winners in the past years, depth scoring becomes invaluable, and nobody had it better than Vegas last year. Four solid lines and six big, strong defensemen. You know, that's a prototype team that everybody's going to have to go through in order to win the Stanley Cup.
Starting point is 00:05:51 I don't see them being an easy out again this year. They lost one player who was a great player, mind you. But the rest of the team is pretty strong. And one of the things that they have over everybody else, Vegas, is that, you know, they have already got the chemistry built in. so they're hitting the floor running this or hitting the ice running this year way ahead of everybody else in that regard the Leafs you know they made some moves up front and they're trying to find the chemistry then who plays best where and that is always a little bit of a of an issue for a team that's made some changes and gone a little bit of a different
Starting point is 00:06:23 direction they added a little more grit into the lineup and, but like the forwards and again, it's whether they can keep the puck out of their own net, you know, goaltending is always going to be a question mark until it's not. And in the defense, you got to have some big, strong defense from back there in there that can play two months of playoff hockey and, and make it a miserable place to go in front of their own net. I don't see any teams being that uncomfortable in front of Toronto's net right now, and that's a problem come playoff time.
Starting point is 00:06:53 Yeah, and you see the best teams in the league. You mentioned Vegas. They got some big, strong D. Colorado wins it after they get a guy like Manson. That's a theme. I'm looking at your New York Rangers there, a team that's off to a really good start. How do you like the way they stack up?
Starting point is 00:07:08 I think maybe the Metro is a bit softer this year, and for them to jump out of the gates like they have, are they built well enough to be one of the teams that could take down Vegas? Well, they're always going to be in the mix, New York, because they've got one of the best goalies in the National Hockey League, so he's always going to make them relevant.
Starting point is 00:07:23 They do got some superstar players with Fox, obviously a Norris Trophy winner. Miller, I think, is going to be just scratching the surface of his potential, a big, strong leader and shutdown guy, Trouba. You know, Lindgren's a scrappy defenseman. They got some scoring up front, and really, for me, New York's going to be, whether Kako and Lafreniere
Starting point is 00:07:45 can emerge as top players and push some of the veterans down a bit. You know, we all are waiting for them to kind of emerge and be top-line players and score the points. Well, they have to be put in position to score those points. And so if they're not able to push those guys down and create more depth in the organization, the New York Rangers are going to have a problem. But they both look better this year.
Starting point is 00:08:09 They're getting better at more opportunity, which they need in order to get their confidence and obviously put the points on the board. But the Rangers are an interesting team. They're going to be one of the teams that are in the hunt for coming out of the East this year. But as we know, guys, there's so much parity in the league and there's so many teams that are right on the brink
Starting point is 00:08:28 and trying to find that added last piece of ingredient that really kind of pulls a team together. And again, this year, when we get to the 40-game mark, we're going to have a lot better idea where everybody stands. But the trade deadline, again, is going to be something that all the teams are really going to be trying to maneuver in order to kind of put the icing on the cake for some of these teams that think they have a chance to win the Stanley Cup Moose I got to ask you about the Battle of Alberta and coming off the Heritage Classic two teams that were in dire need of a of a good distraction
Starting point is 00:09:01 and that seemed to be it for for both of them but it it's temporary and now you're right back in the thick of things i want to start with the edmonton oilers first and the pressure on connor and leon to to deliver and then the rest of them to deliver a stanley cup contending team is there is there anything that you've experienced over your past? Like you guys came through with championship after championship, and when you lost, maybe it was expected or it was a learning curve, but it seems like the Oiler fans are far beyond any learning curve. They want it here and they want it now.
Starting point is 00:09:39 Is there anything you're watching that you can relate to from your days in Edmonton to what the players are going through today and the expectations? Well, the expectations are going to be great when you have, you know, two of the world's greatest players on the team, there's no question. But unfortunately, the two greatest players in the world can't win alone. So they do need the players and the depth around them in order to win. You know, we were lucky enough to have that with Wayne and I and, and the great players that we had around us.
Starting point is 00:10:08 And you look at the Islanders and Trotche and the depth that they had in the goaltending. And yeah, it's, it's, you know, hockey, the reason why hockey is such an amazing trophy and the Stanley cup sits
Starting point is 00:10:17 amazing trophy is because it takes everybody in the organization that along with the players in order to win it. And, and if you're not completely immersed into the journey of what it takes to win, you're going to have zero chance. I just don't see the Oilers at this point right now playing with the kind of urgency defensively that you would need or you would expect from a team that talked all summer
Starting point is 00:10:42 about how they've learned all their lessons and then to come out and lose 8-1 and compete battle around in front of their net, defense getting pushed off pucks, getting out of position. I just don't see it. And then, of course, the undisciplined
Starting point is 00:10:57 penalties that we saw last year in the playoffs, thinking that they could overcome it with their offense. Well, you just don't in the playoffs. They got a lot of work to do in Edmonton in order to get themselves in a position to be able to take on a team like Vegas over seven games and beat them. I don't see it right now, but maybe they'll make some changes as we go along and the attitude will change and they'll be able to kind of put up a better resistance to a team that's so complete as Vegas or where Colorado, even for that fact, and some of the other teams that they're going to have to go through to get out of the West.
Starting point is 00:11:32 Well, yeah, you know, we've been talking about the West because it is interesting seeing Edmonton start poorly and then seeing their rival Calgary start the way they have. You have a history or there's a leadership award named after you. You're the perfect guy to ask about this. If you're that dressing room like it's a pretty talented roster in my opinion i think they should be okay you know what do you do when a team is flailing like the flames are it feels like a team that thought they're a playoff team that now is wondering if they need to tear it all down yeah that's probably a really disappointing uh locker room in calgary uh you know they thought that they're going to pin the tail on the donkey on Sutter and
Starting point is 00:12:06 get rid of him and, and everyone was going to be great. But, you know, it's a fine line of winning and losing in the national hockey league. And it's not that big a difference on either side of it. You know, you want to say that,
Starting point is 00:12:19 you know, that confidence can be a determining factor, but ultimately it's just not confidence. You got to earn your confidence and you earn it through the work that you put in and the commitment that you make. And, you know, Calgary's, you know, thinking that going into the season, that they had a team that could climb their way back into the playoffs. Unfortunately,
Starting point is 00:12:40 there's a lot of teams that have kind of closed that gap now that, so they're going to be fighting to the end to, in order to make the playoffs. But like I say, it's, it's such a hard league. There's so much parody. Getting off to a slow start right now is not a good recipe for, for putting yourself in playoff position,
Starting point is 00:13:00 but we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll wait and see. The judgment's out. We're going to reserve judgment on Calgary for the first month and a half of the season. Speaking of tough markets, one that you know a little bit about in Vancouver,
Starting point is 00:13:14 are you surprised that the attention to detail that a guy like Rick Tockett's gotten this early in the season from his players? I'm not surprised. You know, I think Talk was one of the kind of players that played, you know, with his heart on his sleeve. He was a character guy. Details matter in the game.
Starting point is 00:13:41 Expectations matter. Peer pressure matters and I think he came in trying to set a tone that you know the players are responsible for their actions right or wrong you know what I mean we can put coaches can put any kind of game
Starting point is 00:13:58 plan up on the board and all the structure around it but if the players don't commit to it and they're not completely immersed into winning and committing themselves to winning, it's not going to happen. And it's the small details of the game, fundamental details of the game that have to be second nature. You can't be thinking about them.
Starting point is 00:14:15 They have to be so repetitive, so basic in the way that you approach the game, from practice all the way through into the games. Those habits become winning habits. that you approach the game from practice all the way through into the games that you know those habits become winning habits and you know and that's why you see coaches are and good coaches that can get a team to buy into that kind of philosophy normally have pretty good success because it's such a fine line of winning and losing so if you got a team that's actually doing all the fundamental things the basic things of winning hockey on a regular basis their chances of them winning are probably pretty good.
Starting point is 00:14:47 Last one for me, Mark. Yesterday we saw Joe Thornton put out a retirement video. He's tapped out at over 1,700 games. And he goes out without a Stanley Cup. It's unfortunate. But I do want to get your thoughts on the idea that now with 32 teams, we judged success in, in your era,
Starting point is 00:15:07 Nick, in your era by winning cups, you had to win Stanley cups. Has that changed at all with 32 teams in the NHL, or is it still paramount? And the only way to really judge a true successful career. We're always at the mercy. Any,
Starting point is 00:15:23 any individual players at the mercy of the people in the organization around them is and and of course it's a great barometer to say that a player won a stanley cup to go along with an amazing you know career statistically but you know uh just because you don't win a stanley cup doesn't mean you're not a winner and joe thornton is a winner in every way he was an amazing character guy came in the league for highly regarded carved himself an incredible career became an unbelievable leader and a mentor to a lot of players later in his career loved the game and I got to meet Joe on a number of occasions throughout the years and really enjoyed enjoyed meeting him and getting to know him. It's hard to win.
Starting point is 00:16:11 And as you said, 32 teams now, a lot of parity, a lot of competition. It was unfortunate because I think that everybody that knew Joe or got to play with Joe or got to meet Joe would have liked to have seen him host the Stanley Cup, much like Ray Bork did later in his career. I mean, that was so satisfying to see Bork, you know, finally raise the Stanley Cup later in his career because of the amazing career that he did have. But, yeah, it's hard to win. And, you know, you're forever grateful for the people around you
Starting point is 00:16:36 that supported anybody or any team or any team member when you can win together. One more for me, Madison, we'll let you go as you prepare for the Los Angeles Kings and the Toronto Maple Leafs tonight. A horrific accident that cost the life of former NHLer Adam Johnson. Lots of talk
Starting point is 00:16:54 about mandating neck guards. You've been such a strong advocate towards helmets and concussions and moving forward with equipment. Mary Kay, your sister, obviously involved heavily in equipment. It's just not that easy to slam your fist on the table and say, okay, everybody's going to wear neck guards.
Starting point is 00:17:15 But, you know, is it an easier discussion today than it was even 20 years ago, 30 years ago when it came to helmets or visors? And or is it just still a very personal thing between player and his equipment and the feel that you got to you got to feel comfortable? And sometimes guys are willing to risk a few things. Yeah, I have a strong opinion on that. I think, unfortunately, when I started coaching my son when he was younger, I knew all the inherent dangers of the game because I played it for so long.
Starting point is 00:17:55 And I'd see these kids come out in practice with, you know, no socks on or skin exposed everywhere, and just not knowing how dangerous at any moment, you know, the escape blade coming across the back of a calf or across an artery or whatever. I really think you got to protect the players from themselves. And sometimes I'm hoping the players association really get together there and really lead by example.
Starting point is 00:18:18 In this case. Now, I don't think that the, the effect of wearing a neck guard and the amount of lives that can save, we just got to really push towards making that mandatory. And if you can make it mandatory at the National Hockey League level and the players agree to do it, it's going to have the trickle-down effect
Starting point is 00:18:40 where we're not going to have the accidents that we saw right here in Brunswick School in connecticut not not long ago um one one life is too many for something that just because we're not willing to mandate a piece of equipment that we know can save a life so i'm really hoping the players association the players themselves the leadership of the players really kind of think about this and really make a statement that's going to benefit every young boy and girl playing hockey coming into any league because if the National Hockey League can go ahead and implement this rule, then nobody else should have a problem
Starting point is 00:19:15 implementing it in their leagues as well. Always well said on the show, Mark. Really appreciate your time and thanks for doing this. Enjoy your Halloween tonight not too much candy okay Elvis is in the building thanks Mass the king is leaving
Starting point is 00:19:34 the real Kipper and Bourne show Marc Messier wow he's pretty adamant on where this thing should go it's just it's just doesn't work that way. And it won't work that way moving forward where, you know, tomorrow that they can all say everybody's got to wear neck guards.
Starting point is 00:19:57 It just won't work that way. It hasn't in the past. Why can't it, though? Because you're dealing with a players association that Mark said. When you're dealing with a union, you're dealing with collected bargaining. And they have a health and safety committee. They do. And there are people on it.
Starting point is 00:20:21 And you've got to go through that. And then there's a protective equipment subcommittee. And you you got to go through that. And then there's a protective equipment subcommittee and you've got to go through that. You just cannot put your, you can't pound a table and say, this is what we're doing moving forward. It has to start with the choice of the players who are playing the game. And let's not forget that they have the choice to put it on now. Nobody's telling them they can't put it on.
Starting point is 00:20:50 You can put it on now. And if you feel that strongly, then do it. Right? And people are telling us. Use the language, protect players from themselves. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:21:07 But there, the union would never go on. Hey, okay. Owners and insurance companies. You, you tell us what's best for us. No one would.
Starting point is 00:21:20 That, that's just not realistic. That's not happening. It's so funny. I think if we had 700 nhl players or whoever many have played in the league so far this year on this show one at a time and ask them about net guards they'd all say yeah i'd be fine with mandating it and i bet you if you did a quiet vote behind the scenes that i'll be like i'm not doing that like i do
Starting point is 00:21:38 think the players don't want to do it yeah and because it just feels different and looks awkward. I know this is not the answer people want to hear, but it has to just evolve like visors evolved. And it doesn't start in the NHL. It starts with, of course, it's been around in minor hockey, but then it's got to go with the juniors, and then it's got to go to the American Hockey League, and then all those players that are coming up using it on a mandatory basis
Starting point is 00:22:17 will naturally use it in the NHL. That's the way visors work, JB. Yeah, I know it is. That's the way it worked. I think that's a much bigger impact work yeah i know it is that's the way it worked i think that's a much bigger impact on your ability to play hockey is physically putting something in front of your eyes you know like that is much different i think if players put on a net guard and everyone wore a net guard within a week no one would think about net guards like i play college hockey you throw
Starting point is 00:22:40 in a cage that first day and you're like this this is awful. I have no chance to play hockey like this. And then yeah, a week later, you don't ever see the bars again. A neck guard to me is like, if, if Marty Walsh called all the NHL players or whoever the reps are and said, can we get a vote on this?
Starting point is 00:22:57 And if the majority want to do it, we'll do it. And they got a majority vote. They could do it tomorrow, but they won't. Well, they won't. Sure. I, you know, that is an opinion, what the players it tomorrow. But they won't. Well, that's... They won't. Sure.
Starting point is 00:23:05 You know, that is an opinion what the players will want, and I think you're right, but I don't think it's... You're making it sound like it's impossible to get this gigantic hurdle cleared. If we wanted to do it, we could do it tomorrow. No, no, no. But, yeah, but they don't. Therefore, it won't.
Starting point is 00:23:21 That's... I agree. I look at it no different than pride tape. One guy goes, I'm using it. What are you going to do about it? And then, guess what? Not an issue anymore. You want the guard issue gone?
Starting point is 00:23:43 Put it on. I bet you 20 bucks. Just put it on. You want to guard issue gone? Put it on. I bet you $20. Just put it on. You want to make a statement? I bet you $20 next week an NHL player is wearing a neck guard. That's great. That's great. That's going to happen.
Starting point is 00:23:52 And then hopefully two will. And maybe two to four. Yeah. And then maybe in a year, 600 wear it. And then you turn around and you make it mandated. When you got 600 wearing it and that's the way visors worked when visors got mandated that you have to have when moving forward they had already had 80 90 of the league using them so not one or two right and then
Starting point is 00:24:21 throwing 750 visors on everybody and saying now you got to use them this isn't a performance issue and so it's different to me like the the league it happened and they're like oh we're gonna decide if it's not an uh uh an issue of a performance you decide well i decide that i think it's a bunch of people fibbing saying it's going to make a big difference i know but we're sitting on a desk let them them say it. The guys that are actually playing. I get it. Saying it. And they have the right to vote and make those decisions.
Starting point is 00:24:50 All right. Should an adult step in? Probably, but. It is performance. You know, I wear a neck guard and I suck before I wear a neck guard and I put it on. I still suck. So it doesn't affect performance. It didn't affect your performance.
Starting point is 00:25:04 Did you go buy one? Well, I wear, I've worn a neck guard my whole life. Ever since I was a little kid, I've always worn a neck guard. I don't know why, I just always did. I feel like I need to chime in
Starting point is 00:25:14 that I hate wearing a neck guard. Always. I feel like I need my opinion on that registered. I am totally used to it. Don't even think about it. It's a thought that doesn't cross my mind. But you get chirped for it.
Starting point is 00:25:22 But the Velcro on mine had gone within the last month and I had gone a couple games doesn't cross my mind. But you get chirped for it. But the Velcro on mine had gone within the last month, and I had gone a couple games without wearing a neck guard. So I was like, well, I'm going to go get a neck guard after watching what I saw with Adam Johnson, a horrific injury. Just, you know, it's terrible. So I went to, shout out Dukes, went down to the source of sports,
Starting point is 00:25:40 and they said that they had sold a lot yesterday. It was a popular item bought at the store because people were coming in there to buy neck guards, which it takes, I don't know, like I think it's already mandated across like minor hockey that you have to wear one. That league didn't make it mandatory, the EIHL, because of supply.
Starting point is 00:25:56 Yeah. They didn't know that they could get enough for everyone. But I think at some point, you know, I think it will be like the visor thing, but I, you know, I think there's probably, I don't know, someone who's in minor hockey now texts the show and tell us, like, I think it will be like the visor thing, but I don't know. Someone who's in minor hockey now, text the show and tell us. Isn't it? I think it's mandatory already to wear one now. It is, yeah.
Starting point is 00:26:13 Eventually, it's just going to happen. You hope. And I hope they do evolve, too. I want to see better ones. Still, there's some that are just garbage. They're bulky. some that are just garbage. They're bulky.
Starting point is 00:26:26 They're still skin exposed. Can we do like a mock neck fin kevlar? The one I bought yesterday. It's spinning on some kids. I had one that was like the strap forever. That was like, it was a little, it's like one like that big. But the one I got yesterday was like a whole thing. It's got like one that goes down a little bit.
Starting point is 00:26:44 Do you need a shirt? No, I go no tarpon in my stuff so so it looks a little weird but i don't care no tarpon a neck guard yeah and you get chirped of course yeah yeah does that surprise you i also get hurt for sucking so you know doesn't that you know i bring a lot of it on myself but doesn't that horrible beard of yours do it offer protection at all? The mullet just hides the back. No, it's... But no, I think it's pretty easy just to throw one on. I understand all the hurdles. I'm joking around.
Starting point is 00:27:13 I don't think it's performance. It's very, very easy just to throw one on. All right, Sammy, it's game time. All right, it's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus, Ontario only.
Starting point is 00:27:28 Play responsibly. And we were talking about this on Saturday, with the Leafs going into Nashville and playing a former player in Ryan O'Reilly. And we joke about how stupid it is to not bet on Ryan O'Reilly to score a goal. And tonight, it's a very good opportunity to take a former Leaf to score in Toronto.
Starting point is 00:27:51 And I'm looking at the odds for Trevor Moore to score a goal tonight. He's plus 275, so they kind of know. They know. They know. He's also got five goals this year. Yep. Yeah, it's not like he's a bum.
Starting point is 00:28:03 No. But if you want the pain to really start early you can bet on him to have the first goal of the game which vary within the realm of possibility at 16 to 1 so do they even offer line on carl grunstrom they do have a line on carl grunstrom he's 20 to 1 to score the first goal and he is also uh plus 350 to score period so yeah i don't think that's a very good no too high a number but i like more at averaging 17 minutes a night too yeah like this isn't your third line winger fighting for 10 or 11 minutes no he matters to them he's fast he's got a nose for the net he's a finisher i we saw a couple of sample sizes out of him with the Toronto Maple Leafs.
Starting point is 00:28:47 I never saw that coming. You know, I had seen him with the Marlies and saw it there, but people score there and it doesn't translate to the NHL, and I just wasn't sure that he had. But he's tenacious. Great motor. That's what changed, though. He can read and react.
Starting point is 00:29:02 Very good offensive line. That changed? What do you mean? Well, he wasn't tenacious necessarily. He was hesitant. And I think I've told this story on this show before, but they actually called him into the office to be like, here are some clips of you where we're worried
Starting point is 00:29:14 that you're pulling up on 50-50 pucks. You're hesitant, whatever. And he really made a conscious effort to plow through those mental blocks, and here he is. The thing that jumps out to me, the first oh my god moment with him was when he destroyed zidane ochara that's right in the playoffs in the i think in the last series he's big yeah he hammered him and i was like oh that guy's got a little bit of a got that dog in him as the children say but yeah he uh yeah i really can picture him scoring a goal and if you want to get super spicy and go the Ryan O'Reilly route,
Starting point is 00:29:46 I think he is 22-1 to score two or more goals tonight. So if you think he's going to come in and haunt the Leafs, which is very, very possible, and we've seen it a million different times, yeah, that's a good opportunity for you. All right. And also, you know, riding with the Canucks tonight. They've been hot. Playing against Nashville like them tonight in the second game of the doubleheader.
Starting point is 00:30:06 And that was Game Time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary. Bet365 must be 19 plus. I'm Terry Only. Please play responsibly. And as always, this hour of Real Kipper and Born brought to you by Bet365.
Starting point is 00:30:20 Okay, we're going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back and rip on Eric Carlson. Okay, we're going to take a quick break, and then we're going to come back and rip on Eric Carlson. Oh, my. I volunteer. No, that's not fair. That's not fair. No.
Starting point is 00:30:36 No. It might be fair. Okay, you guys all have your point. I'll have mine. All right. And we're going to probably end up at the same place. Yeah, I hope so pittsburgh penguins big loss to anaheim we'll tell you why after the break real kipper and Bourne show.
Starting point is 00:31:14 Hey, Derek, can you remind everybody how many Hall of Famers we had on the show? One. One. Up he Hall of Famers. Two. Two. Up he Hall of Famers. Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, one. Up he Hall of Famers. Two, two. Up he Hall of Famers. We're really stepping our game up here.
Starting point is 00:31:31 That's just phenomenal production. Just great. I don't know if you guys noticed, it doesn't take a lot to amuse me. You do love when we get something like that. You're a big fan of that. It is. It's good. I enjoy it too.
Starting point is 00:31:43 It is. Okay. We heard from the great Mark Messier saying that nobody can win anything uh this time of year but you can certainly uh put yourself in a real tough position yeah calgary's proving that now pittsburgh penguins kind of proving that right now going Going to the break, we talked about the loss last night to Anaheim, which, again, I mean, I don't know if I've ever seen a situation where it's late in a hockey game. Of course, you're on a power play.
Starting point is 00:32:19 In this instance, it was a five-on-three. And you're like, okay, Pitt's winning this thing. But you have no thought of a shorthanded goal. And Mason McTavish steps out of the box and goes on a 140-foot breakaway. Had anyone in Pittsburgh hit the neutral zone yet when he shot that puck? It was unbelievable. Pittsburgh's awful. So for those of you that have not seen it and i'm sure you will uh it was a simple ddd pass on the on a power play by carlson yeah i think it was to malkin yeah i'm not mistaken yes adam henry stepped in i mean barely he just
Starting point is 00:33:04 stuck a stick out that's all it took dink push the puck up towards the middle of the ice where mctavish steps right in and and barry's high glove with 11 seconds left for a big two regularly right regulation points yeah right now uh in the same amount of games played as the teams ahead of them, Penguins dead last in the Metro behind Columbus, Philly, Washington, who we've crucified on this show before. I mean, Pittsburgh stinks, guys.
Starting point is 00:33:33 So I got to go in on this Pittsburgh Penguins team. I watched this game last night, and I admit it did hurt a bet for me last night, the parlay I mentioned on the show. But there's no time you watch a team more critically than when you have a couple of darts on it. it yeah and i had them in my survivor pool so i watched that game closely i know so pittsburgh is at home anaheim's at the end of a long road trip and not very good team you know in my roster anyway the by all you know this pittsburgh team
Starting point is 00:34:01 needs points they're last in their division pittsburgh is what people think the toronto maple leafs are in terms of flying the zone taking chances for offense leaving their goalie exposed the other way they have not a thought no thought no conscience at all kip all one way yeah well there could be a guy that has something to do with that he's dubious no carlson well it is it's it's the way carlson's been his whole career he has always been risk reward always ottawa it's not just him it's not just him it is carlson you're right i understand that's a theme yeah but like that five on three i don't know if you guys watched the five on three where they got buried.
Starting point is 00:34:46 They happened to score on a five on three earlier where Anaheim gets a goal disallowed and deserves to keep the goal. Anaheim gets their coach ejected. Pittsburgh scores on a one-timer for Malkin. All they ran on a five on three for two minutes was attempted one-timers to Malkin. Crosby's sitting there at the side of the net.
Starting point is 00:35:01 He might as well have tucked his stick in his sheath and just waited for the end of the power, but they didn't even think about using him. Carlson's a super talented player that's all about high risk when it's not necessary. And that's the difference for me. And that's just a prime example. But where's anyone's surprise face on?
Starting point is 00:35:26 Like, did you not know what you were getting when you traded for him don't you think you know it was like ah you know like san jose so bad once he's on a competitive team he'll make more team friendly decisions no one else thought that just me you got one of the better coaches in the national hike league in sullivan you've got one of the best players in the history of the game in crosby you're nine ten games in and he's he's like a horse without a saddle right now carlson yeah if those guys cannot pull in the reins then who can and he's only got six points in nine games or something you're on pace for a 55 point season so if you're not going to get the offense and you're burning yourself the other way boy it's tough not to look at what dubas has done there since he's been there and been like oh because like achari they signed him to a three-year deal he's got no points he's playing 12 minutes a
Starting point is 00:36:24 night three-year contract for him you know nieto they gave him to a three-year deal. He's got no points. He's playing 12 minutes a night. Three-year contract for him. You know, Nieto, they gave him a couple years, getting nothing there. Lars Eller, six years to Ryan Graves. Doesn't seem to be able to defend particularly well. Jari, five years. Like, Dubas went there and handed out contracts and said, we're not doing anything with the coach.
Starting point is 00:36:39 Like, they seem pretty locked into what they have. There's no indication that this is a Sullivan issue here. No. So my next question to you is how does Sullivan get his attention? Would you bench him? Do you think Sullivan has the guts to bench him? Do you think Carlson's the type of guy who that's what he'll respond to? I don't, personally.
Starting point is 00:37:06 If Sid's involved in this decision-making, which I don't think there's much that goes on in Pittsburgh without Sid. What, this isn't making a benching a teammate? Sid needs great Carlson to get another crack at a Stanley Cup. He needs new Carlson, new attitude Carlson to get another crack at a Stanley Cup. He needs new Carlson. New attitude Carlson. I don't know if you can change that guy now, but Sid needs to be involved in helping Carlson help him.
Starting point is 00:37:37 They ain't winning the Cup, so. I don't know. They're not making the playoffs. Yeah. It's done. So maybe last game was a one-off but they looked awful they're not they're the last place of division they have three wins and six losses they're they're trending towards being bad and like that carlson trade everyone was like oh wow they got
Starting point is 00:37:55 you know they gave up not that much and but they're still paying them 10 million dollars until 26 27 there's four more years including including this one, on the contract at $10 million. Like, that could be a disaster for them. Disaster. They were up 3-2 in that third period, and I want to sit with Kip
Starting point is 00:38:12 after the game and watch the 3-2 goal when McTavish scores to make it 3-3. Everyone fly in the zone. Anyway. One last thought on Pittsburgh. Yes.
Starting point is 00:38:22 Jari. Okay. Mm. Just find a way to make a save right just on that play generally a save that play yeah that play bail your team out they need you get the point it's one big save you need and it seems to be a problem in p the last few years. And that's to your point. But we're going to sign him in five years times five. He's under 900. He's 893 in seven games so far this year.
Starting point is 00:38:53 He didn't touch that breakaway. No fakes, no nothing. Just a lefty who shot at high glove swish. High glove. For a lefty. Guys like to do that? Yeah, it's allowed. Okay. Some love for the Montreal Canadiens.
Starting point is 00:39:06 Yeah. Points in Vegas, man. Marty St. Louis said arguably his best effort from the team since he's been head coach last night. Yeah. 5-2-2. I mean, working hard, competing. You know, something about guys like Marty St. Louis
Starting point is 00:39:24 who are competitive and want to win, like, he'll have that team and himself convinced that they can keep doing this. Like, I don't think Marty St. Louis thinks that they, you know, that they're a bad team who's going to fall off. Like, I think Marty believes he can get that team to the playoffs. Calgary Flames aren't going to be too happy, but Sean Monaghan actually looks like a pretty good hockey player right now.
Starting point is 00:39:49 Yeah. Is it not? It's just the health thing, right? Like how many games will he be able to stay in the lineup? And if he is, that's great. Yeah. Well, I think surgery may have taken care of him a little bit here. He had a groin issue that needed some sewing up, I think,
Starting point is 00:40:09 and he seems fine now and put himself in a position to either stick around or get moved again for a prospect or a high pick. Play center, right? Leafs? Ryan O'Reilly. Awesome start to the season for my son, Nick Suzuki, too. Been great.
Starting point is 00:40:27 Eight points in nine games for him. Did you see the shiftiness? He's so good. I love Nick Suzuki. Last night? Yeah. He's a good player. My son.
Starting point is 00:40:35 Yeah, he played for the attack. He's one of the best players ever for them, so I've always loved him. Big Montreal Canadiens fan? Yeah, it breaks my heart. He scored an overtime winner in the playoffs. He's the Leafs guy, though. You saw his Twitter feedback. Oh, he loves the Leafs.
Starting point is 00:40:44 Yeah, yeah. I had a conversation with somebody that I wasn't aware of, and he threw this out, but can you confirm this to me? Uh-oh. That Calgary does not have their first round pick next draft, and it isn't lottery protected? Let me look let me look calgary does not have their first was that a montreal pick twitter trade away on august 18th to montreal click full details um okay that's that's looking like a bigger deal than i think a lot of people if are remembering if calgary's 2024 first is between 20th and 32nd montreal could take that
Starting point is 00:41:33 pick instead so isn't lottery protected right yeah that's uh that's an interesting little detail for the Flamers there. So it's protected from 17 to? 20 to 32. 20 to 20. If it finishes in there, they can take it in 24. Otherwise, they can take it unprotected in 25 is my understanding. Okay. Quick reading here. Okay, Calgary better get going then.
Starting point is 00:41:59 Yes. Calgary needs to pull it together. So, I mean, that tells you that they may not be, like, everybody's thinking, oh, they're going to trade Hanfin and not sign him. They're going to be trading Zdorov. Like, they need to be decent. They can't be giving up their pick.
Starting point is 00:42:14 Like, they need to, they're. That's kind of out there now that, I think it was Elliott maybe 10 days ago, a week ago, said Hanfin is getting close. And now it appears it's all off the table now well if they're gonna strip it down for parts then yeah then why am i resigning and then what do you do with guys like huberto and codder you just signed 100 year deals i think generally people are okay with hannifin but hannifin even if he was to sign in Calgary, would never be a defenseman we could picture one day up for the Norris.
Starting point is 00:42:51 No. So what are you really focused on signing now for? Oh, that's a good point. Charlie McAvoy. McAvoy or Wheeler first? McAvoy. McAvoy. Suspended?
Starting point is 00:43:02 Not yet. Gotta be. The hit's bad. Oh, listen, I've got him at four games i said five that's worse than anderson 100 worse than anderson i've got him in the same class that's worse okay that was like that reminded me convince me it reminded me of like a 2010 mike richards on mark savar like Cook. Puck nowhere near him. I mean, that's a big difference, I think.
Starting point is 00:43:27 But puck nowhere near him, elevates the elbow right into the head, not looking, blindside. It's everything that's wrong with, it's like the number one thing they want gone. That is a horrible hit. That's the worst one I've seen in a long time. He had a hearing this afternoon.
Starting point is 00:43:41 That should be five games. Well, five would have put you in a in-person hearing that wouldn't need it to be waived, so I don't think he's getting five. McAvoy's also more famous than Anderson. But it's worse than it. It's way worse than Anderson. Sorry. And he's got a history. Does he not? He's been suspended before.
Starting point is 00:43:58 If it's under four, I will be incredibly offended. It'll be four. It should be five. Even six. Okay. It's really bad. I'm not saying it's not. It I will be incredibly offended. It'll be four. It should be five. Even six. Okay. It's really bad. I'm not saying it's not.
Starting point is 00:44:09 It's a really bad hit. Clifton got two games too. You need to have a little bit of consistency. Clifton got games right for a headshot as well. Pretty sure. Did they finish last night with four defensemen? Well, is Grizzly hurt as well? Yeah, Grizzly I think got hurt last night too. They're coming into toronto with uh
Starting point is 00:44:25 pretty thin decor don't like that no you don't have excuses you want to see a good match let's see best on best yeah you want to see mcavoy in there you want to see the whole yeah there's not a chance mcavoy's playing no no i like mcavoy as a player don't like him a whole lot on obviously on the bruins but like he's really good he's nasty he's just such a good player he's that kind of guy but yeah he deserves kick him off the tour yeah suspended so christine simpson did an interview with blake wheeler oh yeah rangers played winnipeg last night wheeler got a tribute from the jets and the jets faithful responded well standing oh i believe he looked a little emotional went on the ice gave him a what's up. Great interview, though, with Christine Simpson,
Starting point is 00:45:10 where he talks about, basically, that the Jets organization kind of embarrassed him. We have the clip. Well, then. With some spooky Halloween music underneath it. All right. Why do you think he took the C away from you? I don't think it's fair to put that on him. I think that there was more that went into it than is public.
Starting point is 00:45:29 I prefer to keep it between myself, Chevy, and Mark Chipman and leave it at that. Did that maybe spell the beginning of the end for you in Winnipeg? Well, it makes it easier to move on. Last year was super challenging in the sense that there's a certain amount of, I guess, embarrassment that comes with, you know, having the sea taken away. A lot of the narrative around our group going into last year was that there was dressing room issues and there was problems and then you take the captaincy away. Well, there's your problem
Starting point is 00:45:59 right there, right? Sort of blaming it on you, the dressing room problems that we were hearing about. The timing of it certainly made it seem that way. Individually, I felt like I had to grow as a person to kind of swallow that pill. And even as a 36-year-old, I had some growing up to do. And I don't know if I would have identified that had that not happened. Some real mood music under that. Yeah. He felt like they embarrassed him.
Starting point is 00:46:23 They pointed the finger at him publicly and said, this guy is why. He was embarrassed. Yeah. First of all, there were dressing room issues. And you are the captain
Starting point is 00:46:34 and much like a coach, you're, it's on your watch. You are the captain. There's only one. That is your room. And if there are issues, I think he needed to kind of hold up more responsibility
Starting point is 00:46:53 for things becoming unglued. And yeah, I know there's other people involved, but this started a long time ago. Wheeler's, the issues in the room, you know, led by Wheeler and Mark Scheifele actually started right around Patrick Lainey's success. They didn't handle, they didn't handle Patrick Lainey's success gracefully. It was like, you know,rick came in and he was hot it was him and matthews
Starting point is 00:47:28 yeah were incredibly hot and they just they they didn't manage it well and patrick's a different guy he's not a guy that hangs out with other guys he's a video guy he doesn't drink alcohol right god so while wheeler may be a little more old school you know let's go out and have a liquid lunch no let's play mario right yeah and let's play those ataris this is a different world yes you want to be a real leader yeah learn how to play video games with your 19 year old yeah you know it's funny because he's like you know they said there's problems in the room they take a sea away they're kind of saying it's my fault and i think what i'm hearing you say is this problem in the rooms you were wearing the sea maybe it was and so being publicly it it has to be a little bit on your watch that hey it just didn't work out and i have to take
Starting point is 00:48:28 a little responsibility i thought it was great that the fans were so welcoming and that he was engaging with he had a great career in winnipeg and you know that shouldn't be there were issues you know dustin bufflin okay he didn't walk away from the game of hockey. He walked away from your room. Has he been heard from since? Never to be seen again. Nope. I think he's just fishing a lake. I don't know.
Starting point is 00:48:55 Minnetonka. Yeah, he's in somewhere. Not enough. What a player he was. All right. One of the best highlight reels ever. You know what the best day at Sportsnet is? The day after Halloween when everybody tries to get rid of their kid's candy.
Starting point is 00:49:09 Yeah, that's right. There'll be tables all over the place. I can't wait. We've got a couple chocolate monsters in here, boys. I'm leading the charge. Favorite candy. Oh, jeez. Anything chocolate, Kip.
Starting point is 00:49:19 You know me. Not a candy guy. Chocolate guy. Leases pieces. All right. Smarties. I'm a smarty guy. Combo.
Starting point is 00:49:24 All right. Just like that. Two hours gone. Ouries. I'm a smarty guy. Combo. All right. Just like that. Two hours gone. Our thanks to Luke Robitaille, Hall of Famer. Our thanks to Mark Messier, Hall of Famer. Hall of Fame show. Enjoy your night, everybody. Stay safe.
Starting point is 00:49:35 We're back tomorrow.

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