Real Kyper & Bourne - Making Sense of the NHL Season with Mark Messier
Episode Date: October 31, 2023Hockey Hall of Famer Mark Messier joins Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne to chat about the L.A. Kings' strengths with their centremen, the importance of getting a good start to a team's season, how dept...h in scoring gives an edge to a chase for a Stanley Cup, why the New York Rangers are a sleeper team to come out of the Eastern Conference, and his experience dealing with struggles when he was playing for the Edmonton Oilers. Then, Nick, Justin and Sam McKee wrap up the show by discussing the Pittsburgh Penguins initiating a neck guard mandate. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.
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welcome to the national hour unreal kipper and born nick kiprios justin born sammy mckee
what a jam-packed show for three guys with no halloween costumes that won't sap our energy
because we're going to our second hall of famer. Joining us now, Mark Messier,
six-time Stanley Cup champion, ESPN hockey analyst,
and the guy we can blame for an 8 p.m. start local here in Toronto.
Moose, what's going on, pal?
There you go.
What's going on?
How's it going, guys?
We're good. How are you?
Is this another frozen frenzy tonight with
a 8 PM local start here, Toronto and LA. This is going to feel like a walk in the park today
after the frozen frenzy. We got one game tonight, ESPN and I am dressing up for it. I am going
in. They, you know what a Kipper, what was that? Every year for Halloween? Elvis. You are the king, my friend.
Now, is this, I can't,
you and PK, you're
cooking something up for sure.
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We got
a nice little fun gig going here tonight.
So it's Halloween. We got to celebrate
Halloween. The best team party
and team sports.
Well, I know it was a much bigger deal. Like when my
dad played with the Islanders,
I always saw the pictures of the parties.
Everyone was done to the nines.
Was this like,
tell me about partying on Halloween in New York city as a member of the
Rangers.
This is where mess would really take control.
Like I said,
it was the best team party of the year is right after training camp.
Everybody had their head down,
kind of getting ready for the season.
Then you start the season.
You don't really have time to kind of socialize too much.
And so this is one time at the start of the season
where everybody can kind of relax,
come to the party and put their costumes on
and really kind of do some team building.
So I really enjoyed it.
We used to have a really high prize,
the great prizes for first place.
And Kipro was always in the running.
He had good costumes.
Appreciate it, pal.
Tonight, the LA Kings, Toronto Maple Leafs featured game on ESPN.
Of course, as we mentioned, you got to have a real appreciation for the Kings, Mark, and the strength down the middle.
Of course, all those years with Edmonton and new york winning winning cups here
you look at copetar you look at philip denot and then recently added uh pierre luc de bois
your thoughts on the kings yeah big big strong team again uh you know they probably one of the
hardest working teams in the national hockey league they all play hard away from the puck
they're in pursuit all the time. They put a lot of
pressure on teams. I think Kopitar
is, I'm not sure
if you can say he's underrated or underappreciated,
but to me, when I watched
him play in the New York Rangers in the Stanley Cup
finals, he dominated
the game. Big, strong centerman.
Every team wants a centerman like Kopitar.
He's got all the skills, plays in every area
of the game, every situation. Five on three, three on five, kills penalties,
big face-offs, and, of course, having that strength down the middle,
and then you back him up with Dubois, who's just as big
and maybe just as talented.
But, yeah, the Kings have got a nice-looking team,
and they've been kind of being a nuisance for a lot of teams in the West,
and as we've seen in the past, they're not an easy out in the playoffs.
Matt, just at the start of the year here,
as teams maybe lose a few more than expected
or win a few more than expected,
how much weight do you put on October, on the first few weeks?
Is it crucial that you come out with a good start?
Because I look at a team like the Penguins, the Flames and Oilers,
teams that we thought were probably playoff teams who are way behind the eight ball is that you know crushing for them
to have come out so slowly it I wouldn't say it's crushing but it's going to put a lot of pressure
on them if they don't get it straightened out pretty quickly as we've seen anybody that's been
out of the playoffs almost come Thanksgiving American Thanksgiving has been hard to climb
back into that playoff picture so yeah getting off to a good start is critical for these teams and
you know if you can get yourself in a good position it lasts 40 games and then just play 500
hockey it's it's it's it takes a lot of stress a lot of pressure reduces a lot of injuries and
but if you're trying to make up four or five games in the second half of
the of the season that's going to be a total task especially with the emergence of uh detroit
ottawa buffalo who are going to be taking points away from these teams in the east
um i don't know i i like i said i don't think you can win the stanley cup in october but you
can certainly play yourself out of the position and then it's hard to get back into position.
We're joined by Hall of Famer
Mark Messier.
The Leafs coming off a decent road trip
where they were able to get 7 out of 10 points,
but a lot of
people, including us, know
that they haven't hit any type of high
note yet to start
the season. Just your thoughts
on the Leafs and still what seems to be the dependency
on Matthews and Marner to score
and where you see Tavares and Nylander
maybe picking up a lot of that slack as well.
Yeah, you need your star players to be star players
the way the system is set up right now
where you're heavily laden in the salary cap with your star players,
and then you're bringing in younger players and role players to fill in.
So, yeah, they do have to perform,
and there's a lot of pressure on them to perform.
But as we've seen with some Stanley Cup winners in the past years,
depth scoring becomes invaluable,
and nobody had it better than Vegas last year.
Four solid lines and six big, strong defensemen.
You know, that's a prototype team that everybody's going to have to go through
in order to win the Stanley Cup.
I don't see them being an easy out again this year.
They lost one player who was a great player, mind you.
But the rest of the team is pretty strong.
And one of the things that they have over everybody else, Vegas,
is that, you know, they have already got the chemistry built in. so they're hitting the floor running this or hitting the ice running this year
way ahead of everybody else in that regard the Leafs you know they made some moves up front and
they're trying to find the chemistry then who plays best where and that is always a little bit
of a of an issue for a team that's made some changes and gone a little bit of a different
direction they added a little more grit into the lineup and, but like the forwards and again, it's
whether they can keep the puck out of their own net, you know, goaltending is always going
to be a question mark until it's not. And in the defense, you got to have some big,
strong defense from back there in there that can play two months of playoff hockey and,
and make it a miserable place to go in front of their own net.
I don't see any teams being that uncomfortable
in front of Toronto's net right now,
and that's a problem come playoff time.
Yeah, and you see the best teams in the league.
You mentioned Vegas.
They got some big, strong D.
Colorado wins it after they get a guy like Manson.
That's a theme.
I'm looking at your New York Rangers there,
a team that's off to a really good start.
How do you like the way they stack up?
I think maybe the Metro is a bit softer this year,
and for them to jump out of the gates like they have,
are they built well enough to be one of the teams
that could take down Vegas?
Well, they're always going to be in the mix, New York,
because they've got one of the best goalies
in the National Hockey League,
so he's always going to make them relevant.
They do got some superstar players with Fox,
obviously a Norris Trophy winner.
Miller, I think, is going to be just scratching the surface
of his potential, a big, strong leader
and shutdown guy, Trouba.
You know, Lindgren's a scrappy defenseman.
They got some scoring up front, and really, for me,
New York's going to be, whether Kako and Lafreniere
can emerge as top players and push some of the veterans down a bit.
You know, we all are waiting for them to kind of emerge
and be top-line players and score the points.
Well, they have to be put in position to score those points.
And so if they're not able to push those guys down
and create more depth in the organization,
the New York Rangers are going to have a problem.
But they both look better this year.
They're getting better at more opportunity,
which they need in order to get their confidence
and obviously put the points on the board.
But the Rangers are an interesting team.
They're going to be one of the teams that are in the hunt
for coming out of the East this year.
But as we know, guys, there's so much parity in the league
and there's so many teams that are right on the brink
and trying to find that added last piece of ingredient
that really kind of pulls a team together.
And again, this year, when we get to the 40-game mark,
we're going to have a lot better idea where everybody stands.
But the trade deadline, again, is going to be something
that all the teams are really going to be trying to maneuver in order to kind of put the icing on the cake for some of these teams that think they
have a chance to win the Stanley Cup Moose I got to ask you about the Battle of Alberta and
coming off the Heritage Classic two teams that were in dire need of a of a good distraction
and that seemed to be it for for both of them but it it's temporary and
now you're right back in the thick of things i want to start with the edmonton oilers first and
the pressure on connor and leon to to deliver and then the rest of them to deliver a stanley
cup contending team is there is there anything that you've experienced over your past?
Like you guys came through with championship after championship,
and when you lost, maybe it was expected or it was a learning curve,
but it seems like the Oiler fans are far beyond any learning curve.
They want it here and they want it now.
Is there anything you're watching that you can relate to from your days in Edmonton
to what the players are going through today and the expectations?
Well, the expectations are going to be great when you have, you know,
two of the world's greatest players on the team, there's no question.
But unfortunately, the two greatest players in the world can't win alone.
So they do need the players and the depth around them in order to win.
You know, we were lucky enough to have that with Wayne and I and,
and the great players that we had around us.
And you look at the Islanders and Trotche and the depth that they had in the
goaltending.
And yeah,
it's,
it's,
you know,
hockey,
the reason why hockey is such an amazing trophy and the Stanley cup sits
amazing trophy is because it takes everybody in the organization that along
with the players in order to win it.
And,
and if you're not completely immersed into the journey
of what it takes to win, you're going to have zero chance.
I just don't see the Oilers at this point right now
playing with the kind of urgency defensively that you would need
or you would expect from a team that talked all summer
about how they've learned all their lessons
and then to
come out and lose 8-1 and
compete battle around in front of their
net, defense getting pushed
off pucks, getting out of position.
I just
don't see it. And then, of course, the undisciplined
penalties that we saw last year in the playoffs, thinking
that they could overcome it with their offense. Well, you
just don't in the playoffs.
They got a lot of work to do in Edmonton in order to get themselves in a position to be
able to take on a team like Vegas over seven games and beat them.
I don't see it right now, but maybe they'll make some changes as we go along and the attitude
will change and they'll be able to kind of put up a better resistance to a team that's so complete as Vegas or where Colorado,
even for that fact, and some of the other teams that they're going to have to go through to get out of the West.
Well, yeah, you know, we've been talking about the West because it is interesting seeing Edmonton start poorly
and then seeing their rival Calgary start the way they have.
You have a history or there's a leadership award named after you.
You're the perfect guy to ask about this. If you're that dressing room like it's a pretty talented roster in my opinion
i think they should be okay you know what do you do when a team is flailing like the flames are it
feels like a team that thought they're a playoff team that now is wondering if they need to tear
it all down yeah that's probably a really disappointing uh locker room in calgary uh
you know they thought that they're going to pin the tail on the donkey on Sutter and
get rid of him and,
and everyone was going to be great.
But,
you know,
it's a fine line of winning and losing in the national hockey league.
And it's not that big a difference on either side of it.
You know,
you want to say that,
you know,
that confidence can be a determining factor,
but ultimately it's just not confidence.
You got to earn your confidence and you earn it through the work that you put
in and the commitment that you make. And, you know, Calgary's, you know,
thinking that going into the season,
that they had a team that could climb their way back into the playoffs.
Unfortunately,
there's a lot of teams that have kind of closed that gap now that,
so they're going to be fighting to the end to, in order to make the playoffs.
But like I say,
it's,
it's such a hard league.
There's so much parody.
Getting off to a slow start right now is not a good recipe for,
for putting yourself in playoff position,
but we'll,
we'll,
we'll,
we'll wait and see. The judgment's out.
We're going to reserve judgment on Calgary
for the first month and a half of the season.
Speaking of tough markets,
one that you know a little bit about in Vancouver,
are you surprised that the attention to detail
that a guy like Rick Tockett's gotten
this early in the season from his players?
I'm not surprised.
You know, I think Talk was one of the kind of players that played,
you know, with his heart on his sleeve.
He was a character guy.
Details matter in the game.
Expectations matter.
Peer pressure matters and I think he came in
trying to set a tone that
you know
the players are responsible
for their actions right or wrong
you know what I mean we can put
coaches can put any kind of game
plan up on the board and all the structure
around it but if the players don't commit
to it and they're not completely immersed
into winning
and committing themselves to winning, it's not going to happen.
And it's the small details of the game, fundamental details of the game
that have to be second nature.
You can't be thinking about them.
They have to be so repetitive, so basic in the way that you approach the game,
from practice all the way through into the games.
Those habits become winning habits. that you approach the game from practice all the way through into the games that you know those
habits become winning habits and you know and that's why you see coaches are and good coaches
that can get a team to buy into that kind of philosophy normally have pretty good success
because it's such a fine line of winning and losing so if you got a team that's actually
doing all the fundamental things the basic things of winning hockey on a regular basis
their chances of them winning are probably pretty good.
Last one for me, Mark.
Yesterday we saw Joe Thornton put out a retirement video.
He's tapped out at over 1,700 games.
And he goes out without a Stanley Cup.
It's unfortunate.
But I do want to get your thoughts on the idea that now with 32 teams,
we judged success in,
in your era,
Nick,
in your era by winning cups,
you had to win Stanley cups.
Has that changed at all with 32 teams in the NHL,
or is it still paramount?
And the only way to really judge a true successful career.
We're always at the mercy.
Any,
any individual players at the mercy of the
people in the organization around them is and and of course it's a great barometer to say that a
player won a stanley cup to go along with an amazing you know career statistically but you
know uh just because you don't win a stanley cup doesn't mean you're not a winner and joe thornton
is a winner in every way he was an amazing character guy came in the league for highly regarded carved himself an incredible career became an unbelievable leader
and a mentor to a lot of players later in his career loved the game and I got to meet Joe
on a number of occasions throughout the years and really enjoyed enjoyed meeting him and getting to know him.
It's hard to win.
And as you said, 32 teams now, a lot of parity, a lot of competition.
It was unfortunate because I think that everybody that knew Joe or got to play with Joe or got to meet Joe would have liked to have seen him
host the Stanley Cup, much like Ray Bork did later in his career.
I mean, that was so satisfying to see Bork, you know,
finally raise the Stanley Cup later in his career
because of the amazing career that he did have.
But, yeah, it's hard to win.
And, you know, you're forever grateful for the people around you
that supported anybody or any team or any team member
when you can win together.
One more for me, Madison, we'll let you go
as you prepare for the Los Angeles Kings
and the Toronto Maple Leafs tonight.
A horrific accident that cost
the life of former NHLer Adam
Johnson. Lots of talk
about mandating neck guards.
You've been such a strong advocate
towards helmets
and concussions and moving forward
with equipment.
Mary Kay, your sister, obviously involved heavily in equipment.
It's just not that easy to slam your fist on the table and say,
okay, everybody's going to wear neck guards.
But, you know, is it an easier discussion today than it was even 20 years ago,
30 years ago when it came to helmets or visors?
And or is it just still a very personal thing between player and his equipment and the feel
that you got to you got to feel comfortable?
And sometimes guys are willing to risk a few things.
Yeah, I have a strong opinion on that.
I think, unfortunately, when I started coaching my son when he was younger,
I knew all the inherent dangers of the game because I played it for so long.
And I'd see these kids come out in practice with, you know,
no socks on or skin exposed everywhere,
and just not knowing how dangerous at any moment, you know,
the escape blade coming across the back of a calf or across an artery or
whatever.
I really think you got to protect the players from themselves.
And sometimes I'm hoping the players association really get together there
and really lead by example.
In this case.
Now,
I don't think that the,
the effect of wearing a neck guard and the amount of lives that can save,
we just got to really push towards making that mandatory.
And if you can make it mandatory at the National Hockey League level
and the players agree to do it,
it's going to have the trickle-down effect
where we're not going to have the accidents that we saw right here
in Brunswick School in connecticut not not long ago um one one life is too many for something that
just because we're not willing to mandate a piece of equipment that we know can save a life
so i'm really hoping the players association the players themselves the leadership of the players
really kind of think about this and really make a statement that's going to benefit
every young boy and girl playing hockey coming into any league
because if the National Hockey League can go ahead
and implement this rule, then nobody else should have a problem
implementing it in their leagues as well.
Always well said on the show, Mark.
Really appreciate your time and thanks for doing this.
Enjoy your Halloween tonight not too much
candy okay
Elvis is in the building
thanks Mass
the king is leaving
the real Kipper and Bourne show
Marc Messier
wow he's
pretty adamant on
where this thing should go it's just
it's just doesn't work that way.
And it won't work that way moving forward where, you know,
tomorrow that they can all say everybody's got to wear neck guards.
It just won't work that way.
It hasn't in the past.
Why can't it, though?
Because you're dealing with a players association that Mark said.
When you're dealing with a union, you're dealing with collected bargaining.
And they have a health and safety committee.
They do.
And there are people on it.
And you've got to go through that.
And then there's a protective equipment subcommittee. And you you got to go through that. And then there's a protective equipment subcommittee
and you've got to go through that.
You just cannot put your, you can't pound a table and say,
this is what we're doing moving forward.
It has to start with the choice of the players who are playing the game.
And let's not forget that they have the choice to put it on now.
Nobody's telling them they can't put it on.
You can put it on now.
And if you feel that strongly, then do it.
Right?
And people are telling us.
Use the language, protect players from themselves.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But there,
the union would never go on.
Hey,
okay.
Owners and insurance companies.
You,
you tell us what's best for us.
No one would.
That,
that's just not realistic.
That's not happening.
It's so funny.
I think if we had
700 nhl players or whoever many have played in the league so far this year on this show one at
a time and ask them about net guards they'd all say yeah i'd be fine with mandating it and i bet
you if you did a quiet vote behind the scenes that i'll be like i'm not doing that like i do
think the players don't want to do it yeah and because it just feels different and looks awkward. I know this is not the answer people want to hear,
but it has to just evolve like visors evolved.
And it doesn't start in the NHL.
It starts with, of course, it's been around in minor hockey,
but then it's got to go with the juniors,
and then it's got to go to the American Hockey League,
and then all those players that are coming up
using it on a mandatory basis
will naturally use it in the NHL.
That's the way visors work, JB.
Yeah, I know it is.
That's the way it worked.
I think that's a much bigger impact work yeah i know it is that's the way it worked i think that's a much
bigger impact on your ability to play hockey is physically putting something in front of your eyes
you know like that is much different i think if players put on a net guard and everyone wore a
net guard within a week no one would think about net guards like i play college hockey you throw
in a cage that first day and you're like this this is awful. I have no chance to play hockey like this.
And then yeah,
a week later,
you don't ever see the bars again.
A neck guard to me is like,
if,
if Marty Walsh called all the NHL players or whoever the reps are and said,
can we get a vote on this?
And if the majority want to do it,
we'll do it.
And they got a majority vote.
They could do it tomorrow,
but they won't.
Well,
they won't.
Sure. I, you know, that is an opinion, what the players it tomorrow. But they won't. Well, that's... They won't. Sure.
You know, that is an opinion what the players will want,
and I think you're right, but I don't think it's...
You're making it sound like it's impossible
to get this gigantic hurdle cleared.
If we wanted to do it, we could do it tomorrow.
No, no, no.
But, yeah, but they don't.
Therefore, it won't.
That's...
I agree.
I look at it no different than pride tape.
One guy goes, I'm using it.
What are you going to do about it?
And then, guess what?
Not an issue anymore.
You want the guard issue gone?
Put it on.
I bet you 20 bucks. Just put it on. You want to guard issue gone? Put it on. I bet you $20.
Just put it on.
You want to make a statement?
I bet you $20 next week an NHL player is wearing a neck guard.
That's great.
That's great.
That's going to happen.
And then hopefully two will.
And maybe two to four.
Yeah.
And then maybe in a year, 600 wear it.
And then you turn around and you make it mandated.
When you got 600 wearing it
and that's the way visors worked when visors got mandated that you have to have when moving
forward they had already had 80 90 of the league using them so not one or two right and then
throwing 750 visors on everybody and saying now you got to use them this isn't a
performance issue and so it's different to me like the the league it happened and they're like
oh we're gonna decide if it's not an uh uh an issue of a performance you decide well i decide
that i think it's a bunch of people fibbing saying it's going to make a big difference
i know but we're sitting on a desk let them them say it. The guys that are actually playing.
I get it.
Saying it.
And they have the right to vote and make those decisions.
All right.
Should an adult step in?
Probably, but.
It is performance.
You know, I wear a neck guard and I suck before I wear a neck guard and I put it on.
I still suck.
So it doesn't affect performance.
It didn't affect your performance.
Did you go buy one?
Well, I wear,
I've worn a neck guard my whole life.
Ever since I was a little kid,
I've always worn a neck guard.
I don't know why,
I just always did.
I feel like I need to chime in
that I hate wearing a neck guard.
Always.
I feel like I need my opinion
on that registered.
I am totally used to it.
Don't even think about it.
It's a thought that doesn't cross my mind.
But you get chirped for it.
But the Velcro on mine had gone
within the last month and I had gone a couple games doesn't cross my mind. But you get chirped for it. But the Velcro on mine had gone within the last month,
and I had gone a couple games without wearing a neck guard.
So I was like, well, I'm going to go get a neck guard
after watching what I saw with Adam Johnson,
a horrific injury.
Just, you know, it's terrible.
So I went to, shout out Dukes, went down to the source of sports,
and they said that they had sold a lot yesterday.
It was a popular item bought at the store
because people were coming in there to buy neck guards,
which it takes, I don't know,
like I think it's already mandated across like minor hockey
that you have to wear one.
That league didn't make it mandatory, the EIHL,
because of supply.
Yeah.
They didn't know that they could get enough for everyone.
But I think at some point, you know,
I think it will be like the visor thing,
but I, you know, I think there's probably, I don't know, someone who's in minor hockey now texts the show and tell us, like, I think it will be like the visor thing, but I don't know. Someone who's in
minor hockey now, text the show and tell us.
Isn't it? I think it's mandatory already
to wear one now. It is, yeah.
Eventually, it's just going to happen.
You hope.
And I hope they
do evolve, too. I want to
see better ones.
Still, there's some that are just
garbage. They're bulky. some that are just garbage.
They're bulky.
They're still skin exposed.
Can we do like a mock neck fin kevlar?
The one I bought yesterday.
It's spinning on some kids.
I had one that was like the strap forever.
That was like, it was a little, it's like one like that big.
But the one I got yesterday was like a whole thing.
It's got like one that goes down a little bit.
Do you need a shirt?
No, I go no tarpon in my stuff so so it looks a little weird but i don't care no tarpon a neck guard yeah and you get chirped of course yeah yeah does that surprise you
i also get hurt for sucking so you know doesn't that you know i bring a lot of it on myself
but doesn't that horrible beard of yours do it offer protection at all? The mullet just hides the back.
No, it's...
But no, I think it's pretty easy just to throw one on.
I understand all the hurdles.
I'm joking around.
I don't think it's performance.
It's very, very easy just to throw one on.
All right, Sammy, it's game time.
All right, it's game time.
Presented by Bet365.
Visit the app for the latest odds
and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365.
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And we were talking about this on Saturday,
with the Leafs going into Nashville
and playing a former player in Ryan O'Reilly.
And we joke about how stupid it is
to not bet on Ryan O'Reilly to score a goal.
And tonight, it's a very good opportunity
to take a former Leaf to score in Toronto.
And I'm looking at the odds
for Trevor Moore to score a goal tonight.
He's plus 275, so they kind of know.
They know.
They know.
He's also got five goals this year.
Yep.
Yeah, it's not like he's a bum.
No.
But if you want the pain to really start
early you can bet on him to have the first goal of the game which vary within the realm of
possibility at 16 to 1 so do they even offer line on carl grunstrom they do have a line on carl
grunstrom he's 20 to 1 to score the first goal and he is also uh plus 350 to score period so yeah i don't think that's a very good no too
high a number but i like more at averaging 17 minutes a night too yeah like this isn't your
third line winger fighting for 10 or 11 minutes no he matters to them he's fast he's got a nose
for the net he's a finisher i we saw a couple of sample sizes out of him with the Toronto Maple Leafs.
I never saw that coming.
You know, I had seen him with the Marlies and saw it there,
but people score there and it doesn't translate to the NHL,
and I just wasn't sure that he had.
But he's tenacious.
Great motor.
That's what changed, though.
He can read and react.
Very good offensive line.
That changed?
What do you mean?
Well, he wasn't tenacious necessarily.
He was hesitant.
And I think I've told this story on this show before,
but they actually called him into the office to be like,
here are some clips of you where we're worried
that you're pulling up on 50-50 pucks.
You're hesitant, whatever.
And he really made a conscious effort
to plow through those mental blocks, and here he is.
The thing that jumps out to me, the first oh my god moment with him was when he destroyed zidane ochara that's right
in the playoffs in the i think in the last series he's big yeah he hammered him and i was like oh
that guy's got a little bit of a got that dog in him as the children say but yeah he uh yeah i
really can picture him scoring a goal and if you want to get super spicy and go the Ryan O'Reilly route,
I think he is 22-1 to score two or more goals tonight.
So if you think he's going to come in and haunt the Leafs,
which is very, very possible, and we've seen it a million different times,
yeah, that's a good opportunity for you.
All right.
And also, you know, riding with the Canucks tonight.
They've been hot.
Playing against Nashville like them tonight in the second game of the doubleheader.
And that was Game Time presented by Bet365.
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Okay, we're going to take a quick break
and then we're going to come back
and rip on Eric Carlson. Okay, we're going to take a quick break, and then we're going to come back and rip on Eric Carlson.
Oh, my.
I volunteer.
No, that's not fair.
That's not fair.
No.
No.
It might be fair.
Okay, you guys all have your point.
I'll have mine.
All right.
And we're going to probably end up at the same place.
Yeah, I hope so pittsburgh penguins big loss to anaheim we'll tell you why after the break
real kipper and Bourne show.
Hey, Derek, can you remind everybody how many Hall of Famers we had on the show?
One.
One.
Up he Hall of Famers.
Two.
Two.
Up he Hall of Famers. Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, one. Up he Hall of Famers. Two, two. Up he Hall of Famers.
We're really stepping our game up here.
That's just phenomenal production.
Just great.
I don't know if you guys noticed, it doesn't take a lot to amuse me.
You do love when we get something like that.
You're a big fan of that.
It is.
It's good.
I enjoy it too.
It is.
Okay.
We heard from the great Mark Messier saying that nobody can win anything uh this time of year but
you can certainly uh put yourself in a real tough position yeah calgary's proving that now
pittsburgh penguins kind of proving that right now going Going to the break, we talked about the loss last night to Anaheim,
which, again, I mean, I don't know if I've ever seen a situation
where it's late in a hockey game.
Of course, you're on a power play.
In this instance, it was a five-on-three.
And you're like, okay, Pitt's winning this thing. But you have no thought of a shorthanded goal.
And Mason McTavish steps out of the box and goes on a 140-foot breakaway.
Had anyone in Pittsburgh hit the neutral zone yet when he shot that puck?
It was unbelievable.
Pittsburgh's awful. So for those of you that have not seen it
and i'm sure you will uh it was a simple ddd pass on the on a power play by carlson yeah
i think it was to malkin yeah i'm not mistaken yes adam henry stepped in i mean barely he just
stuck a stick out that's all it took
dink push the puck up towards the middle of the ice where mctavish steps right in and and barry's
high glove with 11 seconds left for a big two regularly right regulation points yeah right now
uh in the same amount of games played as the teams ahead of them, Penguins
dead last in the Metro behind Columbus,
Philly, Washington, who we've crucified
on this show before. I mean,
Pittsburgh stinks, guys.
So I got to go in on this Pittsburgh Penguins team.
I watched this game last night, and I admit
it did hurt a bet for me last
night, the parlay I mentioned on the show. But there's no
time you watch a team more critically
than when you have a couple of darts on it. it yeah and i had them in my survivor pool so i watched
that game closely i know so pittsburgh is at home anaheim's at the end of a long road trip
and not very good team you know in my roster anyway the by all you know this pittsburgh team
needs points they're last in their division pittsburgh is what people think the toronto maple leafs are in terms of flying the zone
taking chances for offense leaving their goalie exposed the other way they have not a thought
no thought no conscience at all kip all one way yeah well there could be a guy that has something
to do with that he's dubious no carlson well it
is it's it's the way carlson's been his whole career he has always been risk reward always
ottawa it's not just him it's not just him it is carlson you're right i understand that's a theme
yeah but like that five on three i don't know if you guys watched the five on three
where they got buried.
They happened to score on a five on three earlier
where Anaheim gets a goal disallowed
and deserves to keep the goal.
Anaheim gets their coach ejected.
Pittsburgh scores on a one-timer for Malkin.
All they ran on a five on three for two minutes
was attempted one-timers to Malkin.
Crosby's sitting there at the side of the net.
He might as well have tucked his stick in his sheath
and just waited for the end of the power,
but they didn't even think about using him.
Carlson's a super talented player
that's all about high risk when it's not necessary.
And that's the difference for me.
And that's just a prime example.
But where's anyone's surprise face on?
Like, did you not know what you were getting when you traded for him don't you think you know it was like ah you know like san jose
so bad once he's on a competitive team he'll make more team friendly decisions no one else thought
that just me you got one of the better coaches in the national hike league in sullivan you've got one of the best players in the history of the game in crosby you're nine ten games in and he's he's like
a horse without a saddle right now carlson yeah if those guys cannot pull in the reins then who can
and he's only got six points in nine games or something you're on pace for a
55 point season so if you're not going to get the offense and you're burning yourself the other way
boy it's tough not to look at what dubas has done there since he's been there and been like oh
because like achari they signed him to a three-year deal he's got no points he's playing 12 minutes a
night three-year contract for him you know nieto they gave him to a three-year deal. He's got no points. He's playing 12 minutes a night. Three-year contract for him.
You know, Nieto, they gave him a couple years,
getting nothing there.
Lars Eller, six years to Ryan Graves.
Doesn't seem to be able to defend particularly well.
Jari, five years.
Like, Dubas went there and handed out contracts
and said, we're not doing anything with the coach.
Like, they seem pretty locked into what they have.
There's no indication that this is a Sullivan issue here.
No.
So my next question to you is how does Sullivan get his attention?
Would you bench him?
Do you think Sullivan has the guts to bench him?
Do you think Carlson's the type of guy who that's what he'll respond to?
I don't, personally.
If Sid's involved in this decision-making,
which I don't think there's much that goes on in Pittsburgh without Sid.
What, this isn't making a benching a teammate?
Sid needs great Carlson to get another crack at a Stanley Cup.
He needs new Carlson, new attitude Carlson to get another crack at a Stanley Cup. He needs new Carlson.
New attitude Carlson.
I don't know if you can change that guy now,
but Sid needs to be involved in helping Carlson help him.
They ain't winning the Cup, so.
I don't know.
They're not making the playoffs.
Yeah.
It's done.
So maybe last game was a one-off but they looked awful
they're not they're the last place of division they have three wins and six losses they're
they're trending towards being bad and like that carlson trade everyone was like oh wow they got
you know they gave up not that much and but they're still paying them 10 million dollars
until 26 27 there's four more years including including this one, on the contract at $10 million.
Like, that could be
a disaster for them.
Disaster.
They were up 3-2
in that third period,
and I want to sit with Kip
after the game
and watch the 3-2 goal
when McTavish scores
to make it 3-3.
Everyone fly in the zone.
Anyway.
One last thought on Pittsburgh.
Yes.
Jari.
Okay.
Mm.
Just find a way to make a save right just on that play generally a save that play yeah that play bail your team out they need you get the point it's
one big save you need and it seems to be a problem in p the last few years. And that's to your point.
But we're going to sign him in five years times five.
He's under 900.
He's 893 in seven games so far this year.
He didn't touch that breakaway.
No fakes, no nothing. Just a lefty who shot at high glove swish.
High glove.
For a lefty.
Guys like to do that?
Yeah, it's allowed.
Okay.
Some love for the Montreal Canadiens.
Yeah.
Points in Vegas, man.
Marty St. Louis said arguably his best effort from the team
since he's been head coach last night.
Yeah.
5-2-2.
I mean, working hard, competing.
You know, something about guys like Marty St. Louis
who are competitive and want to win,
like, he'll have that team and himself convinced
that they can keep doing this.
Like, I don't think Marty St. Louis thinks that they,
you know, that they're a bad team who's going to fall off.
Like, I think Marty believes he can get that team to the playoffs.
Calgary Flames aren't going to be too happy,
but Sean Monaghan actually looks like a pretty good hockey player right now.
Yeah.
Is it not?
It's just the health thing, right?
Like how many games will he be able to stay in the lineup?
And if he is, that's great.
Yeah.
Well, I think surgery may have taken care of him a little bit here.
He had a groin issue that needed some sewing up, I think,
and he seems fine now and put himself in a position
to either stick around or get moved again
for a prospect or a high pick.
Play center, right?
Leafs?
Ryan O'Reilly.
Awesome start to the season for my son, Nick Suzuki, too.
Been great.
Eight points in nine games for him.
Did you see the shiftiness?
He's so good.
I love Nick Suzuki.
Last night?
Yeah.
He's a good player.
My son.
Yeah, he played for the attack.
He's one of the best players ever for them, so I've always loved him.
Big Montreal Canadiens fan?
Yeah, it breaks my heart.
He scored an overtime winner in the playoffs.
He's the Leafs guy, though.
You saw his Twitter feedback.
Oh, he loves the Leafs.
Yeah, yeah.
I had a conversation with somebody that I wasn't aware of,
and he threw this out, but can you confirm this to me?
Uh-oh.
That Calgary does not have their first round pick next draft,
and it isn't lottery protected? Let me look let me look calgary does not have their first
was that a montreal pick twitter trade away on august 18th to montreal click full details
um okay that's that's looking like a bigger deal than i think a lot of people if are remembering if calgary's 2024 first is between 20th and 32nd montreal could take that
pick instead so isn't lottery protected right yeah that's uh that's an interesting little detail for the Flamers there. So it's protected from 17 to?
20 to 32.
20 to 20.
If it finishes in there, they can take it in 24.
Otherwise, they can take it unprotected in 25 is my understanding.
Okay.
Quick reading here.
Okay, Calgary better get going then.
Yes.
Calgary needs to pull it together.
So, I mean, that tells you that they may not be,
like, everybody's thinking,
oh, they're going to trade Hanfin and not sign him.
They're going to be trading Zdorov.
Like, they need to be decent.
They can't be giving up their pick.
Like, they need to, they're.
That's kind of out there now that,
I think it was Elliott maybe 10 days ago,
a week ago, said Hanfin is getting close.
And now it appears it's all off the
table now well if they're gonna strip it down for parts then yeah then why am i resigning
and then what do you do with guys like huberto and codder you just signed 100 year deals
i think generally people are okay with hannifin but hannifin even if he was to sign in Calgary, would never be a defenseman we could picture one day up for the Norris.
No.
So what are you really focused on signing now for?
Oh, that's a good point.
Charlie McAvoy.
McAvoy or Wheeler first?
McAvoy.
McAvoy.
Suspended?
Not yet.
Gotta be.
The hit's bad.
Oh, listen, I've got him at four games
i said five that's worse than anderson 100 worse than anderson i've got him in the same class
that's worse okay that was like that reminded me convince me it reminded me of like a 2010
mike richards on mark savar like Cook. Puck nowhere near him.
I mean, that's a big difference, I think.
But puck nowhere near him,
elevates the elbow right into the head,
not looking, blindside.
It's everything that's wrong with,
it's like the number one thing they want gone.
That is a horrible hit.
That's the worst one I've seen in a long time.
He had a hearing this afternoon.
That should be five games.
Well, five would have put you in a in-person hearing that
wouldn't need it to be waived, so
I don't think he's getting five.
McAvoy's also more famous than Anderson.
But it's worse than it. It's way
worse than Anderson. Sorry. And he's got a history.
Does he not? He's been suspended before.
If it's under
four, I will be
incredibly offended. It'll be four.
It should be five. Even six. Okay. It's really bad. I'm not saying it's not. It I will be incredibly offended. It'll be four. It should be five.
Even six.
Okay.
It's really bad.
I'm not saying it's not.
It's a really bad hit.
Clifton got two games too. You need to have a little bit of consistency.
Clifton got games right for a headshot as well.
Pretty sure.
Did they finish last night with four defensemen?
Well, is Grizzly hurt as well?
Yeah, Grizzly I think got hurt last night too.
They're coming into toronto with uh
pretty thin decor don't like that no you don't have excuses you want to see a good match let's
see best on best yeah you want to see mcavoy in there you want to see the whole yeah there's not
a chance mcavoy's playing no no i like mcavoy as a player don't like him a whole lot on obviously
on the bruins but like he's really good he's nasty he's just such a good player he's that kind of guy but yeah he deserves kick him off the tour yeah suspended so christine simpson did an
interview with blake wheeler oh yeah rangers played winnipeg last night wheeler got a tribute
from the jets and the jets faithful responded well standing oh i believe he looked a little
emotional went on the ice gave him a what's up.
Great interview, though, with Christine Simpson,
where he talks about, basically,
that the Jets organization kind of embarrassed him.
We have the clip.
Well, then.
With some spooky Halloween music underneath it. All right.
Why do you think he took the C away from you?
I don't think it's fair to put that on him.
I think that there was more that went into it than is public.
I prefer to keep it between myself, Chevy, and Mark Chipman
and leave it at that.
Did that maybe spell the beginning of the end for you in Winnipeg?
Well, it makes it easier to move on.
Last year was super challenging in the sense that
there's a certain amount of, I guess, embarrassment that comes with, you know, having the sea taken
away. A lot of the narrative around our group going into last year was that there was dressing
room issues and there was problems and then you take the captaincy away. Well, there's your problem
right there, right? Sort of blaming it on you, the dressing room problems that we were hearing about.
The timing of it certainly made it seem that way.
Individually, I felt like I had to grow as a person to kind of swallow that pill.
And even as a 36-year-old, I had some growing up to do.
And I don't know if I would have identified that had that not happened.
Some real mood music under that.
Yeah.
He felt like they embarrassed him.
They pointed the finger at him publicly
and said,
this guy is why.
He was embarrassed.
Yeah.
First of all,
there were dressing room issues.
And you are the captain
and much like a coach,
you're,
it's on your watch.
You are the captain.
There's only one.
That is your room.
And if there are issues,
I think he needed to kind of hold up more responsibility
for things becoming unglued.
And yeah, I know there's other people involved,
but this started a long time ago.
Wheeler's, the issues in the room, you know,
led by Wheeler and Mark Scheifele actually started
right around Patrick Lainey's success.
They didn't handle, they didn't handle Patrick Lainey's success gracefully.
It was like, you know,rick came in and he was hot it was him and matthews
yeah were incredibly hot and they just they they didn't manage it well and patrick's a different
guy he's not a guy that hangs out with other guys he's a video guy he doesn't drink alcohol right god so while wheeler may be
a little more old school you know let's go out and have a liquid lunch no let's play mario right
yeah and let's play those ataris this is a different world yes you want to be a real leader
yeah learn how to play video games with your 19 year old yeah you know it's funny because he's like you know they said there's
problems in the room they take a sea away they're kind of saying it's my fault and i think what i'm
hearing you say is this problem in the rooms you were wearing the sea maybe it was and so being
publicly it it has to be a little bit on your watch that hey it just didn't work out and i have to take
a little responsibility i thought it was great that the fans were so welcoming and that he was
engaging with he had a great career in winnipeg and you know that shouldn't be there were issues
you know dustin bufflin okay he didn't walk away from the game of hockey.
He walked away from your room.
Has he been heard from since?
Never to be seen again.
Nope. I think he's just fishing a lake.
I don't know.
Minnetonka.
Yeah, he's in somewhere.
Not enough.
What a player he was.
All right.
One of the best highlight reels ever.
You know what the best day at Sportsnet is?
The day after Halloween when everybody tries to get rid of their kid's candy.
Yeah, that's right.
There'll be tables all over the place.
I can't wait.
We've got a couple chocolate monsters in here, boys.
I'm leading the charge.
Favorite candy.
Oh, jeez.
Anything chocolate, Kip.
You know me.
Not a candy guy.
Chocolate guy.
Leases pieces.
All right.
Smarties.
I'm a smarty guy.
Combo.
All right. Just like that. Two hours gone. Ouries. I'm a smarty guy. Combo. All right.
Just like that.
Two hours gone.
Our thanks to Luke Robitaille, Hall of Famer.
Our thanks to Mark Messier, Hall of Famer.
Hall of Fame show.
Enjoy your night, everybody.
Stay safe.
We're back tomorrow.