Real Kyper & Bourne - Maple Leafs Fire Craig Berube

Episode Date: May 13, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with the breaking news out of Toronto, as the Maple Leafs part ways with head coach Craig Berube after two seasons. They reflect on Berube's tenure, whether pushback from the fanbase had anything to do with the decision, how much influence Auston Matthews might've had, and what John Chayka means by 'organizational shift' as the team begins their search for a new bench boss. Later, they look at the head-coaching market and the Leafs' options, the market's expectations for the next coach, and whether the move changes the team's thinking about Matthews or the first-overall pick. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, let's get her going here. Plenty to chew on the real Kipper and Gord Show. Never a dull day. We're alive on Sports at 360, 590 the fan in Toronto. Streaming always on Sportsnet. Plus, if you miss our show, catch it on Spotify, Apple Podcast, and YouTube. Plenty on this Leaf Hour edition. Are we going to take the whole hour on the Leaf Hour edition?

I was thinking we could lead off with the Kitchener Rangers winning the OHL Championship. Yes, right there. Okay, they swept the very cold. We'll just push that right, right to the back for just a minute, Sammy, because the Toronto Maple Leafs relieve head coach Craig Barubi of his duties behind the bench. General Manager John Chica has kind of deemed it. You're in a fist fight with that name. We all are.

It's Chica. Chica, what did I say? Chica, what did I say? You're like, chai. All right, all right. Organizational. that's the one that's twisting me right now. Shift.

Shoulder surgery. And a search for a fresh start. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Frank the Tank, Barasca, Derek Brandeo. All right, boys. Kind of got into this a lot yesterday.

I'm certainly glad we did. A lot of it, for me anyways, was based on what I wrote in Sportsnet.com. yesterday and I did have a bit of a shift, a softening on Craig Barubi, and it was really built around what was going on with Austin Matthews. And that's where I started to feel like something's not right. And I don't know in terms of what's next for Austin Matthews and how this affects him

or his feeling of still being unsure out there. But what, We do know that Chica and Matt Sundane had had enough of whatever information they got, J.B. Over the course of 10 days, 12 days to make this decision. Yeah. You know, Kip, I just feel like it had to happen. And I think, you know, Chica made it pretty clear that it wasn't, in his opinion, wasn't about Burubi. And, you know, what he had done so much is they just need a fresh start here. And I know you're already, you don't like that piece of it.

It is an insane thing to say. It is. Of course. He's a great coach. He's blah, blah, blah. And Austin's a prolific goal. Like, we all know that he won the Stanley Cup, but we also know they were horrific.

Yeah, real bad. Right? They were horrific under him. And all the numbers that he probably revisited in the last 10 days as well. Yeah. Absolutely. I just felt like, you know,

I tried to do the role playing with you yesterday. Like, give me a reason why, you know, you're not going to let go of this guy. guy. And I just don't think there's a good answer aside from the GM saying, I'm looking out for my own job ahead of the team or saying the people above me don't want me to do it or all these things. You can't go into the year with that. So this to me had to happen. And so I honestly feel a little sense of relief from Leaf Nation who it's almost like, okay, next year can be this kind of clean slate first pick. Here we go. Some excitement now. Sammy, nobody was more emotional over the belief that he could be staying than you. Yes, you, you. Listen, I don't want to, you know, put dirt on Craig Bruby here,

but like, there's a sense that you feel a lot better going in the next season with a change. I think, like, they had to make a change. And that's why I was so, you know, whenever you would come in here and you were alluding to the fact that you, not you weren't the only one, there's tons of people that are alluding to the fact that maybe he'd be back,

maybe he'd be back. And I just, I didn't think that there was any way a serious organization could function in that way, especially with a new general manager who's preaching a different, an organizational shift. You can't have an organizational shift if you keep the same head coach that was trying to win down the stretch and drove them into getting the first overall pick because they were so bad. Like it's just, I actually, there's part of me that's upset of the way it ended with Craig Broube because I was so excited about him coming here,

and I was just so excited about, like, the idea of what he was. And the first year was great. Like, they were the closest of anyone of beating the Florida Panthers, but it just fell apart. And a part of that's with Marner, you can talk about whatever you want, but it just fell apart.

And this is the way it ended. I'm happy they did this. Relieved is the right word. I'm relieved that we're not going to have to have the conversations going into next year where it's like, well, maybe if they have got off to a slow start, maybe they can let them go. It's just, I'm glad they did it.

Okay, let's hear from the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs on his opening statement today on Craig Brube fired today. Thanks everyone for coming down. I know it was short notice. Appreciate you guys coming out. I just want to start off by thanking Craig Brubay and his family for their contributions to Toronto Maple Leafs. I've got to spend some time with Craig. He's a great man, a very good coach. I did a lot of good things here. That's not lost on me. I told him myself, I hope to lead with the same class and grace that he did in his time here. Moving forward, we felt like after reviewing the organization and spending some time in the facility and meeting with staff, we felt like this was the right decision on the path ahead.

It was an organizational decision. It was not a verdict on Craig's coaching. I think it stands for itself. And we felt that this was the right decision at this time. I don't think it stands for itself. It didn't go good. But anyway, the rest of that is all very nice. He's just trying to be polite.

He said all the right things. I thought the line about class and grace was really nice. And everyone to a man, no one has lost any respect for Craig Barrowby, who, you know, still a very good person. Organizational shift. Organizational shift. I think a few. What does that mean to you guys? A few other things I want to just put my finger on is, you know, I do want to ask you

think the fans had anything to do with this. There was a pretty big push in the last couple days as rumors were that he was coming back. People were not happy with that. Do you think that they recognized that and saw it as a problem? Yeah, I think there's a concern there for sure. Like, you got to keep people engaged and people were very frustrated at the idea of him coming back. I mean, there's petitions.

Yeah. That's never a good sign. When petitions start popping up in my mentions, it's not usually a good It's a challenge right now. And I think as an organization in what has always been deemed like a bulletproof kind of recession proof brand, it's probably taking the biggest hit I've seen. And I'm much older than you guys. Like I can recall 70s, 80s, 90s, Toronto Maple Leafs born and raised here. 88th player that I've ever played born in Toronto.

play for the Toronto Maple Leafs. There's not many of us. And they've taken a hit the last little while here. And yes, to your point, it is sensitive. And, you know, you want to keep season ticket holders engaged. You want to keep Bay Street engaged. They spend a lot of money down there. Yeah.

Okay? A ton. They got to feel, you got to feel somewhat optimistic about the future. So, yeah, to your point, yes, I do believe it played into some of the You know, the one thing that we talked about yesterday, too, that I didn't like of the top of the show was the idea that they were going to talk to Austin and then make the decision. They may have already done that or already had the information that they needed to make this decision. Right. But you know what?

The one thing I complained about during the tree living era was that they weren't proactive about anything. Everything was last minute, wait and see, wait and see. This one had they left it until they went to visit Austin, would have looked like Austin fired the coach. And they, by being proactive, they bail him out from having that perception. Yeah. And try to get to talk about the impact that maybe Matthews may have had, clip three. Let's have a listen. How much did Austin's future impact this decision if at all?

None. Zero. Okay. They're off the hook. Yeah, I mean, you can't be naive about it, too, J.B. I'm not. Right? I'm not for a second.

I'm about perception. Okay, yeah, perfect. Yeah. But I told you, we all know behind the scenes how it works with those star players. If he really wanted him here, he'd be here. Well, it would be important to them. Yeah. That he's happy.

Yes. And they've made it abundantly clear. We want him. We're going to build around him for our next push for the Stanley Cup, which again, when I when I spoke of buying time by keeping him it was

it was not the belief that he's been a great coach for them or he's just the guy that didn't have the right players like I do believe that it was warranted the change was warranted

the only reason I I went with that maybe they want to buy some time is that it would have given them some time to assess where they are as a team in October, November, and December. And that's gone now. Chike is going to get his next guy in there.

And it is foot to the pedal. We got to win now. We got to get back into the playoffs now. You go and get your coach right now. And you give him a season of, of Sullivan in New York. A year later, that coach is going to be behind the eight ball a little bit. But Kip, he's prioritized the team here.

Your thing is talking about his own job. You're talking about the game of Survivor. You're not talking about an organization. I'm not talking about matching the team with the expectations. And the process to get there. There's a process to get there. You just can't just jump from being one of the worst teams in the league. In my opinion, with this lineup with the lack of resources and draft picks and prospects,

back into we're going to compete for the Stanley Cup as early as this year. But if they think that he's not a very good coach, like next year making playoffs for the Leafs is like Philly or any of those teams who did it this year. If it happens, it's probably going to happen by a hair. And so you can't go into American Thanksgiving and go, ah, this coach that we didn't think was great, wasn't great. We need to, we're losing, we got no draft pick. We need to fire the coach and turn this thing around.

If you think you want to turn it around, you've got to be pedal down from day one. Like this is the only chance they have to turn around. I still stand by if you're going to get a coach now, I don't believe that it needs to be Bruce Cassidy. To me, go find your next Spencer Carberry. David Carl then? Maybe, maybe.

But it might not be the guy, it might not be the head coach that eventually gets this team back into a serious contender for Stanley Cup. You may now have to go two for John Chica. The average coaching tenure in the NHL is 2.3 years right now. So I'd like to see a younger coach. I'd like to see a younger coach with less, with less. Jeff Halpern. With less pressure to come in and be the guy. I think they could learn a big lesson on Sullivan leaving Pittsburgh.

I agree. And going to New York and understanding that this guy was considered one of the best coaches in the league. And yet, if he doesn't have the horses, he's going to look really ordinary. Totally. You know, that's, I remember some line about Al Arbor, being asked how to be the best coach and it was something like just be behind the bench or the best players like get or get off the bus of the best players it's pretty much all there is to it for some of these guys um chico was asked today about uh on where he might go let's

have a listen on clip five i think uh respect for the process and the candidates i don't want to get into that today um and it also always seems like then it means that Craig was missing something which i don't think would be fair but uh we'll have a thorough process It'll be a wide search. We'll take our time, try to get it right. It's the most critical decision as a general manager. I think God, Jake doesn't do Kippers, Clippers, like, daily for us next year. He is buttoned up.

But, hey, if he comes out and says, we want a guy who's XYZ, it's going to be the same thing that happened with the GM search here, where all of a sudden everyone was XYZ. They told them the answers they wanted to hear, and that was everyone's answer. Yeah, he doesn't give you much, but it's... calculated and it may be smart yeah i'm with you i don't come out and say we want to i don't i don't know maybe that's exactly what this town needs yeah i don't a guy that gives you doesn't say nothing nothing we don't listen we feasted on dna and we'll have a plan and you know chike

goes up there like he's in a you know on trial and trying not to to give anyone away you know Chigas established himself real quick here as being a guy between Don and Bruby now where it's like you're out and I'm not wasting any time to your point. Treadmills fast. If I got to cut you off at the knees, I'm cutting you off at the knees

and I'm not feeling bad about it at all. We love our Jay's Leafs parallels here. There's not a worse press conference guy maybe in all of sports than Ross Atkins. Ross Atkins, the gentleman who's... They just don't. He just doesn't say words. Like he speaks in these like sentences that are like,

it's hard to understand what he's even talking about. It's so out there. So I don't think you need to have great press conferences to be good at what you do. But hold on for a second. Hold on for a second because this stuff, like there's no question between, there's some feel good vibes right now. And I think you mentioned it today that you got the first pick overall. You got a fresh coach coming in.

I mean, what a week and a half here, boys? It's been unbelievable. Well, that's, I mean, what's that? Hot start. I'm thinking of hot. Cole, can you guys calm down with it's a hot start? What else could be better than what he's done in 10? He fired a coach.

Yeah, he took the low, Hanging fruit. They could have hired Sammy as a general manager, and he could have fired Baroobee and then got handed the first pick overall, and you'd be saying us, Sammy's hot on fire right now. I'm telling you that he would have gone in there, and have people above him said, we don't want to fire the coach.

Sammy would have said, okay. No, he wouldn't have. And I would have been like, Craig, you're fire. Chica, give him credit. Like, this is, he. It's a win. It's a win for him. No question about that.

I get your point. But this is, that's low hanging for him. I just, you know, like, we got to cool it a little bit on that. He's hot right now thing. How terrible the perceptual. But to Sammy's point with Ross, okay, it's okay that they're like this. And it's okay if they give you nothing. because to your point a little bit,

the feeling is it's trending up a little bit. But talk to me in two months, if the Jays are out of this thing by 20 games, and how the fans will be okay with Ross giving them nothing. It comes back and it's like it's not enough anymore. Kippert, I mean, not to disagree with you. I mean, he's been in charge here for eight years and they've had awful years, including 2024,

and he still said nothing. He's never said anything. Mark Shapiro says way more. It's acceptable when you're one inch away at the plate for the World Series, or if you're 20 games out of first place. Yeah. Ended August. Yeah, but what I'm saying is he's consistent,

regardless of what they're doing. I know, but the perception is different. Totally. Yeah, the fans hate it. The one thing I think I'm coming to grips with a little bit more is, like, Lou Lamarillo's thing was like They weren't going to create their own There's enough pitfalls and trap doors and hurdles

As an organization in Toronto That you're just going to run into them You don't need to create your own And Lamarillo didn't want to create their own I think Chica is more of that mold Than maybe tree living was Careful measured Try to stay out of your own way

I can't speak to less leaks from the office Or anything like that But I think a little bit more cautious approach In a big market Is probably the smarter way to play it. Before we play on that clip, I asked you guys, you got into a different conversation.

What is an organizational shift mean to you guys? Well, I think when Tree came in, they thought they were grit and snod away from winning. And so the shift was towards getting Joshua and Waugh and big bodies like that, and they were going to dump it more, and they were going to be more Florida Panthers. And the shift is now, boy, it's not fun when we're not talented.

So they want to, okay, so. Yeah, and for me it means absolutely nothing. It's just a fancy way of saying, we're not, we're not, we're not telling you anything. We're not telling you a reason why. We're not telling you anything. It's just a, it makes them sound smart, and it keeps you kind of guessing. And that's a good follow up is what's the shift towards. And like, it's just a fancy way of saying, I'm not telling you anything.

Okay. Yeah, I do think that they are shifting away from grunt, though. Like that was the focus the last couple of years was we want to go get Sammy Blay on waivers. Wow. You know? I think it was clear that it was dump and chase, finish your checks. Yeah. And north-south, pucks to the net.

Oh. And now it's simple? No, it's not. We just got to keep it simple. They do have a question. here about how they want to play. Would that give us anything? Why don't you be the judge?

Clip six, please. Yeah, I think that's a good discussion. I think regardless of who the coach is, we should have an organizational vision on how we play and the things we value and then certainly through that process aligned on it. So again, I think it's best not to discuss all that today and not to bias the process.

So we're going to have, like I said, a very wide and deep search. And there'll be people across all varying backgrounds and experiences. you know, through that, we'll pick the right leader. People aren't going to like this. No. People aren't going to like this, boys.

That one? Just that. Well, I mean, we discussed all that today. Vision and alignment. Alignment. I know, but it's like, it's safe. It's kind of like corporate jargon. Kind of.

Kind of. No, it is. One thousand percent. It's okay. That's his style. It doesn't want to tip his hand. And at the end of the day, I'm not giving you guys anything. It is very funny to be like, how do you want your team to play?

And to be like, I think it's important that we have a vision. And alignment. And. Horizontals. It's okay. Hopefully there's some diagonals. As long as it's trending up and there's a wave of energy that's starting to make people feel good, it's okay. Yeah.

Just don't be like 9 and 20, you know, Christmas. That's all. And then no one wants to hear it. Yeah. Yeah. You know what's different, though, Kip, is it kind of depends what they do this off season in terms of what their goal is for next year. Like if they trade Matthews and have Mesa and, you know, whatever, another pick from San Jose or something, it'll be different. You can be nine and 20.

But if they go out and sign a bunch of 35-year-old free agents, you're making a very different statement and depends who you hire. So I don't think it's clear yet that part. Which is it going to be? I want you guys to listen to this clip. There's lots of questions about getting feedback on Baroube from like the organization or whatever. There's lots of questions on that. But listen to this clip from him, clip seven please,

on soliciting feedback from players, clip seven. Yeah, we did not solicit feedback from the players and the coaching staff at all. You know, the only things I heard about credit. where they reemphasize just the type of person he is and how much they enjoyed being around him. As I know, that's been his, you know, his credibility as a player and as a coach now.

So that didn't weigh in at all. Okay. Did anybody follow up with, how about agents or parents? But hold on. Didn't he, but listen to that clip? Parents. Okay, hold on. Yeah.

What the parents? No, I'm just saying if you got any feedback from agents or parents. Yeah. But he contradicted himself in that. Play that clip again for us, Derek 7? Yeah, we did not solicit feedback from the players and the coaching staff at all. You know, the only things I heard about Craig

where they reemphasized just the type of person he is and how much they enjoyed being around. Isn't that feedback? As I know. Yeah, but it's not feedback from, should we keep them or get rid of them? Yeah, and as a coach. Yeah. No.

But, like, there's so many different ways to get feedback, you know, through the players but not through the players. And one of them are agents as well. They play a big part in this guys. They, behind the scenes, man, they, and we're going to have Brian Lawton on, who's been an agent, Octagon. Maybe we'll ask him a little bit on his reflection

on how involved agents would be and sometimes outside of contracts, like playing time and, getting guys traded or moved. Yeah. I got to say, like, as much as we want to pick through all these quotes, I don't think this is a tough decision. I don't think there's like a golden nugget in here.

It's like, no, I'm with you. It's just, it was time to start over. Yeah, I know. New GM, first pick, new coach, let's go. So, I mean, of the names that you're starting to see float out there, I guess we can kind of move to that conversation, we kind of mentioned a little bit, but like, is it a guy that you're going to go to bat for,

a guy that you think should do it. Like the Bruce Cassidy thing is obviously hot right now. People are mentioning Bruce Cassidy. There's the Edmonton story that's going around here. Spex talking about Knoblock maybe not being around by the end of the day. So like, you said yesterday that you didn't think Bruce Cassidy would maybe not be the right fit at this point. Yeah. That's me personally.

Yeah. I think he's a kind of guy that can, in a short window, could get certain guys over the top. You know it's really remarkable how many coaches of that ilk get hired and immediately win a cup? Like before they've had time to like reach sort of a like Daryl Sutter took over the Kings in 2012, I think when they won. And I want to say he took the flames to the cup final in 03 and joined just a year before. Dan Balsma did it. Craig Bureuby, was he the head coach in St. Louis for long before they won the cup? No, I think it was like half a year.

Yeah, no, he came in quick. Mike Yo, I think they fired him. Yeah. I think there's a real trend where some of these guys who are good guys good sort of like motivators like you come in. Mike Keenan did it one year for us. There you go. Like I

think there is a real trend with those guys and you got to know that you have at least enough horses. Yeah you're just not to keep. You're like we know there's more there. We need to get it over the hump. And you know this team and even if we really

really look long and hard over the like the 10 years right where we thought that they were close like how really close were them were they you know we obviously talked about Mitch Marner and you know earlier in this week but you know outside of that

it's like did they really have a goaltender to get them to a conference final ever in 10 years and you know is that kind of lost a little bit and did they ever have did they ever have a number one defenseman to try to win the Stanley Cup in the last 10 years would have helped to drop

That never really comes into the equation when we're talking about who showed up and who didn't show up at the core four. I'm more willing to have the defenseman conversation all day of the week as opposed to the goal. Like I'm watching the goalies that are playing right now. It's like, I mean, it's Alex, it's Alex Lyon. It's Oka Pekyllukinan.

It's, I mean, they're not household names. Like Carter Hart off to, you know, from wherever he came from and playing. But the difference is one of them may do it. And then the ones over the past 10 years, never came close. Well, no, I'm just saying that, like, matching up against, I don't know, wall when he went in there, Sampsonov or all these guys. Like, goalies, unless you have one of the five guys,

goalies are all interchangeable. The defenseman conversation is more one for me then. It's not that they're interchangeable or not. It's the ones who actually show up and deliver. Sure. And the Leafs never had that. I mean, what are we doing here? No, I'm just saying, though, that that's part of this,

do you have the horses? Yes. Do you have? Of course. Does the head coach have the horses to come in and win right away on this team? I'm trying to back up your Cassidy point. Yeah. That this is probably not the group who needs a, it is three months away from.

Mani Mahaltra. Yeah. Yeah. To me, like, even if he comes in. So you saw Carbary and you're like, get us the bald guy. Maybe a bald guy. All right. That's great analysis, boys.

We'll get them. Coming from three well-feathered men here. They were on the bench together, were they not? Carbary and Malta. We won't get him a Clippers ad. brought you by great clips. Right. But to me, even if Mahaltra comes in

and if they miss the playoffs by chance next year, there could be some growth with him still. Totally. And he's also having some success in the American League. He's been a head coach now. The Leaves may draft his son. First overall? No.

No, when they trade Matthews, get the third overall pick. Oh, now we're talking. And they load up on all these picks and prospects. I cannot imagine. how electric our show will be if all this stuff happens. But I think the name that I've been seeing the most to me, that's the most interesting to me is Woodcroft.

That's the one where, like, I mean, let's play the clip 10 from Chica on the experience part of it. There, clip 10. So, yeah, I think we're going to start very wide and talk to as many people as we can with the varying backgrounds as a general point. Yeah, I think experience, certainly is experience in the NHL. in larger markets could be an asset and will be weighed. But I wouldn't discount anything at this time.

It will be weighed. Like me after Christmas, it will be weighed. He Woodcroft has been behind the bench of two superstars in McDavid Drysadle, been in a Canadian market that was hot. His record while he was there, you texted me earlier today is like 79 and 30 something. Like they won a pile of games. Didn't get it across the finish line in the playoffs, obviously.

He was 79, 41 in 13 and 133 games in the regular season with them. And that includes that horrendous start they got off to that ended up causing him, causing him his job at the start of two years ago when Knoblock took over. I don't know. He runs the Ducks power play there, works under Quenville, has experience in it. Seems like I'm more of a forward-thinking guy. Like I like the idea of My Holtra, but as your first head coaching job right away, like the experience factor to me does matter. I like Woodcroft. I don't know.

We've had him on the show Kipper. Yeah, we have. Yeah, yeah. Like, sharp guy. Seems like a good talker. Need to do that in this market. I just love to. The version of like a newspaper endorsing a candidate here.

No, honestly, like, I just like to see him get another crack. I mean, we're talking about who could coach it. I'm giving you the opinion. I like the Mulholtra idea. I like Woodcroft. I like Halpern as an idea who hasn't been a head coach before. No, but guess who's been tutoring him? Tell me.

Spencer Carberry. No, he's in Tampa Bay. He's a Cooper. He's a coop guy. He's a coop guy. That's right. He's all Tampa. Listen.

Listen. What about Coop? What about Coop? In three years or four years when they're really ready. Coop can replace Halpern when he gets the boot. Yeah, exactly. But no, there's good options. I mean, you know, outside of the usual guys, the David Carle one does interest me too.

I'll be honest. I don't think you're pulling him out of, I don't know, he's probably making four or five million bucks in college right now. Yeah, but it's not the NHL. It's pretty sweet, but it ain't the NHL. He just wins every year. He's so young now, and he's just like. Strike all the iron's hot, man.

Yeah, and I don't know. I bet she's in the NHL next year. I think the point, was it you that made it or you that made it, I think that makes a lot more sense if you're trading Matthews and trading Willie and like doing like the Marty St. Louis thing where you're just kind of building these guys all up together and you bring it and Carl at the ground floor where there's no, like, there's always going to be pressure here,

but it's at the start of something. So I don't know. It's going to be fascinating. But who's your... If I told you that the Leafs could have a future exactly like Montreal is if you gave up the next three years of making the playoffs, would you be okay with that? Three so many. I'd have a hard time with that. Okay.

I believe we had someone in this room a week ago who said every season is precious with the Toronto Maple Leafs. Remember that? Chica said that. Oh, he did say that? Yeah. Oh. You're a good listener. I forgot that too.

I was through, I mean, I did listen. For the record, I'm a big fan of stability, and I'm not saying every year you try to go all in. I do want to see what next year looks like. Last year was a disaster. Like, if you have a good off season, I just want to see what it looks like before I make the decision, do I want to punt on three?

Let's just take a look. No, I totally agree. We should break. Oh, should be right? All right. Let's take a break. Okay. Don't look at me.

said it. You're right over there. Yeah, I'm good. There's lots of thoughts going on, all right? Was your phone blinding you again? Yeah. I got my backup phone. Okay.

You need the dubus pick. Edward Rogers, if you're listening. Plenty more to come. Craig Barubi, once again, out as as head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Who's coming in? We'll discuss that further when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne.

Hey, it's Matt Marquesi. And I'm Mike Futa. We're discussing the top stories of the day across the NHL and the hockey world. Weekdays at noon. It's the fan hockey show on SportsNet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back in studio. Nick Hipprio's Justin Boren, Sammy McKee. You guys ranking?

Just checking the top five picks right now. The athletic ranking that has Chase Reed 1 and McKenna 4 and Stenberg 5. But isn't that like a tier situation? Yeah. The five names are in a tier one from Corey Prond. It is unusual that, like, as much as we think McKenna's number one, it's not clear cut. It is not consensus.

Right. It's not clear cut, Sammy. I'm in the business. We're all in the business of clicks and everybody is looking for clicks and all that stuff. For the record, I don't get an extra nickel if anyone clicks anything I do. Well, but like people like to feel the clicks. Okay. So everybody believes McKenna is an,

undoubtedly number one, but they're doing this for clicks. That's what you're telling us. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that the biggest fan base in the league loves to click. We're the king of clicking.

Oh, for sure. And if you put out something that's a little bit different, a little bit controversial, people are gonna... I just think Gavin McKenna's going to go first overall and there's a lot of people talking about it

and if it was anybody else with the first overall pick, I don't think there would be this much consternation about it. That's how I feel. I think he is projected to be the number one overall pick. Yeah, he's going to go first overall. I bet three, six, five, but there's lots of people who don't think he should.

Yeah. Including our own Jason Bucola. I know. We yelled at each other about it on their head. The feeling is he can't check a lick. Like legitimately every sort of profile and projection for him I read is like, there are guys who are good who can't defend a lick, you know, and maybe you could be Kuturov or whatever.

And it's like, yeah, maybe. He was on that offensive upside if you can't check. Going to college, the first half of his college season this year, threw everybody off the Senate. He was, he had a historic season with the Medicine Hat Tigers where he was in, not in his draft year, and he was in the year before his draft year, and he had 100 and whatever points,

had an unbelievable playoff run that go to the final. If he goes back to the dub this year, he has the season that Bedard had in his draft year, that Connor McDavid had in his draft year, that all these guys had in their draft year, where he scores 170 points. He's the best player in the country, and everybody falls all over themselves

to be like, oh, my God, he's the best guy. He's going to be number one. Just because of the slow start at college, everybody forgot. Everyone just is like, oh, we got to give it to Stenberg because he's a good checker. Like, this guy could be the 100-point guy, just take him. Is he generational? No, I don't think that's the projection.

Okay, that was a projection on a few names that you just, Yeah. Said. But I think a big part of the reason. But I also don't agree with that. Okay. I've seen people say that too, but like, he went. I have said it.

He went to a style of game where something in his game was exposed. And so now people are more aware of a weakness. Where he was above a point of game player in college? Listen, if he was perfect, he'd be number one on everyone's list. I sometimes think, okay, what happens if he ends up being like Alex Lafranier? in New York? Is that a major disappointment? Of course it is.

Of course it is. That's one of the, you know, I like Lafreyne. What if he was like Alexander Dagg? Like you just pick out the worst possible first overall pick and make the name. You can say that. Like that's just. If it was my pick, Sam, I'd probably pick him. Who would you pick?

I'd be afraid to miss out on the upside. The upside is crazy high. I think he's incredibly gifted offensively. And that's the number one thing that we're going to, focus on. Do I think if he can handle somewhat of the physical element of the game, I think he could probably come in and spot duty with Austin and maybe score you of 45, 50 points. Yeah, that's great. And then next year, score you 90 points. That's I'm in. And then can he turn himself into Kyle Connor? Would that be? Kyle Connor is a pretty good player. Yeah, I'm very highly skilled.

I would anticipate that he's a better. offensive player than Kyle Connor. That would be my anticipation. He's better pass or he's better like he's. His vision is Marner like Kutrov like it's nuts. What do you want to get with the first overall

pick? A franchise player. You take the swing with the first overall pick. You don't be like we got to get the guy who's a great I can't wait for the Selke. You want a heart with the first overall pick. You don't want a Selke. And he has the upside that you can be a hundred point player. You're not trying to

I don't know. If Stenwork was a center, totally different conversation. And I would understand it. But they're both wingers. And I know he's good defensively. But you're trying to win next year too, right? It's going to be a huge mistake to pass him again. You're trying to win next year.

I do think part of what helps you to win is someone who could pass it to Austin Matthews, which obviously, obviously, Martin Tassos. I think if he's got that type of vision, then Austin should probably feel okay. Can I tell you? But it's a long shot that this kid's going to come in and help me get back to 69 goals. Can I tell you what makes me like him a little bit more? There's at least two or three junior highlights where he does something completely bonkers. Like a two-handed Tomahawk slash on someone who's nowhere near the play.

Like a little temper over. And we know the bar fight. I just, they haven't had someone who could even get there among their skill guys. Like Kutrov, I like that he's able to be like, I'm a grump and I'm whatever, but I will spear you in the neck if I'm upset. I know. I know. But you know what?

J.B., I've asked a number of people. Yeah. And they think he's going to go knock people out on the ice like he did at the bar. It's not happening. No. It's the opposite. Yes. They say he's soft.

Yeah, yeah. Right? He's a soft player. He's not, there's not an ounce of, it's all skill. There's not an element of, I'm going to punch you out. But I still. I do still like that as he becomes a man, that that element is within him.

You know, I don't know. I don't know how that's going to translate. I mean, I just don't think we should sit here and talk yourselves out of the potential super duper stuff. What are we going to do for two hours? No, but like, it's just, what do we be doing this if the flames are the first overall pick? Listen, no, we wouldn't be talking about it.

We'd be saying, yeah, they're taking McKenna. When you got different people saying different things about the top five, you're saying it everywhere. sadly. It's not just a Toronto thing. You're the guy at the draft right now who's booing the draft pick when you've never seen the other players. Like we don't know.

All we know is the people who watch all the time are not in consensus. So the accusation is then that these people don't believe that he's the fifth best guy. They think he's number one, but they're going to put him five. I'm not accused of people. You think they're all dishonest? Do you think Bukes is

fudging it? Listen, I've made my point very clear. That's a name you recognized You want it Yeah, that's it That's it Pass on the guy that had the junior Upside of all the best Canadian players

Pass on him I dare you Pass on him Here's the last thing I'll say about this Okay Chike if you are talking about Listen to Justin Bourne And pass on him

So you can get the guy who gets to Selkie I wouldn't Your logic is bad But I'm going to even past Semberg And I'm like Let's get to Albert Schmitz in here That'll be good

This organization has had A first team All-Star On the Blue Line so it's bore you solving. Yeah. Okay. And they've tried the unbelievable skilled guys with the top five, his top seven, wherever Nealander ended up.

Like, here's your chance to maybe, I don't know, Chase Reed, is he, Kail McCarish? Doesn't sound like he defends a tonne either. No, I think, you know what they should definitely do? Is they should first overall, with the first overall pick, the Toronto Maple Leaf Select, Albert Schmidt,

out of Germany because he's got good defensive metrics. Well, Gavin McKenna goes to San Jose Sharks. It scores 120 points a year with Macklin-Cellibrini. We all talk about how they passed on them. I hope we have the show in a decade. The defensemen, they play 30 minutes a night. Yeah. Okay, the good ones play 30 minutes a night.

The top forwards play two-thirds of that. Scoring is the hardest thing in the game. And so that's why I still lean McKenna, but it is concerning that these people are not, aligned. Okay. Did he mention about going to see Austin? He did. Okay. Let's do any more plans to meet with Austin. Clip 12, please. Not more solidified. We've had conversations. I think, again, it was important for me to get, you know, a good lay of the land in terms of our internal workings and what we had in place here. And we could have, like, really informed discussion. And, yeah, I wanted to make sure that that we had, again,

the knowledge we could possibly have so when we sit down we can have the best best discussion but no feedback on peruvie but they talked but they've had but he didn't solicit feedback ah what were they talking about he also didn't specify that he didn't get feedback he said he didn't solicit feedback were like could you get me a tea time at true north like what were they talking about so are we still we are still left with chris johnson's report that he is yet to commit to return to Toronto next season. Are we still there? I would say that the way the Burubi thing played out

has people skeptical of that. Okay, but it's still out there. For sure, and yet to be refuted. So you had said this kind of takes Austin off the hook a little bit. Yeah. But so are we going to be left with June, July, and August and not hear from Austin and just have this last report,

the last thing that we know and nobody coming back and saying, no, I'm good now and I'm committed. No, I've got him off the hook for the Barubi thing. I don't have him off the hook. Like you need some sort of inclination about what he intends to do. Hold on for a second. You have him off the hook for Barubi.

For having. So if he comes out tomorrow and says, I'm totally committed to the Toronto Maple Leafs. Uh-huh. that doesn't kind of look a little strange to you. Listen, they didn't put him in a spot where they made him wear it. Kim, you're just, we get it. You think that Matthews has had fire, Burubei.

That's what you think. I, all I know is there's a pretty reputable report out there from a guy that's pretty reputable that says he's not committed to returning next year. I'm like, am I the only one going, what the hell is that? Yeah. To me, this was your Messier leaning on getting a new coach. Like, this is potentially him leaning on it. So somebody come out and commit this guy for next season, please?

Well, I don't know that it's, no one knows that it's broobies enough. I don't think there's an answer for what exactly he's looking for, but I think you want to take to him all the things you hope he's after. Do I think you want to be Ruby back? Absolutely not. But I'm saying perception-wise, you can't say that he did it. They said they didn't talk to him. I'm not going there.

I'm not going there. You can speculate all we want, but I just... You sure are. We've been doing it for an hour, but I just need somebody to say... He's in. He's in. Totally.

That's all. Is that too much to ask? Apparently, no, I think that would be great. For Lee fans, that their captain and their future statue outside the building is coming back and he's committed? If he wakes up on July 4th this year, that's a pretty big day in the U.S., as I recall. And the Leafs have, all of a sudden they have Mintyakov and McTavish out of Anaheim. I don't know how they did it.

But I'm just saying if they have some new bodies in here and they signed radish and whatever. And he goes, okay, I think we're going to be good. It's different than if nothing has happened from now till then. And he goes, I don't see how we're going to be any different. And is that not what you think he wants here That the team is going to be competitive? I think maybe he just wants to go out If he just wants out, say it.

I also don't like him kind of holding like this hostage. Nobody does. Okay, I don't. Everyone hates it. I would say every message I've gotten about Matthews over the past five days has been like, I'm not real pleased how this is going. I would agree with that sentiment.

Get a lot of that. Like, you know, that's why I feel too. And the longer it goes on a dress, the worst it's going to get. Agreed. Yep. but maybe they don't care. And they just want good players in, but they probably should care.

Not great. A lot of people should care. Yeah. So I don't know. Maybe this will change. Well, maybe if he gets to play alongside Albert Schmitz, he will be like, I got to stay here. I got to stay in Toronto.

Tip told us he doesn't care about the number one overall thing. We got Schmitty now. We're good to go. I can't wait until Albert Smith wins an Orest Trophy in four years or something. Listen. pseudo slandering it. The amount of stuff I've said on this show that have just been dead wrong, that's the way it goes.

Talk for two hours every day. You're going to have some misses voice. Got to take some swing. I think there's pressure to Sam's point a little bit from people like Sammy. On Matthews. No, taking McKenna. Yeah, and I think that's a bad reason to do it. You better get it right.

You can't worry about that. I know, but there's a ton of pressure. Yeah, like, yeah, I think that's actually. a tiebreaker is what I think. I think if it's all right, we're either, it does feel like they're not going to take Stenberg, doesn't that? Am I out of my mind here? Like everything either seems like take a D or take McKenna?

We'd all point to Matt Sundeen on that one if they took him. Would we not? Yeah. I mean, he's been involved with a Swedish program for the last little while. He must know him, the family. He's got better, he should have better insight on him than anyone else. The way that he said his name when they asked him about him, I was like, oh, oh, God.

He knows him. Uh-oh. Well, he also called him. We need somebody be like, oh, Gavin, bud. We need somebody to say it like that. We'll see. But good arguing. Yeah, always is.

Always is. Well, nice to have that problem. New day. New day, new coach coming in. When do we think that this is going to happen? How long do we have? I want to know when they're going to hire someone else. We have Clip 9.

Yep. about when you want to have a person in place. No, no timeline. I mean, certainly, you know, there's key milestones that are coming up. And so certainly, you know, running an efficient process matters. But like I said, we're going to take our time and do a very wide search and talk to a lot of people. And ultimately, you know, how that goes. And, you know, the quality of the candidates that we come at,

that the time we do will dictate a lot of that. They'll have one by the draft. Think so? Yeah. Okay. I do want to mention that, Pranman, whose list we were just talking about, His mock draft, who he thinks, who will take who? He has Gavin McKenna won.

Good. Corey, you're right. Good job. Nailed it. That Chase Reed 6-3-195 shoots at the net a whole bunch. But they're already ordering jerseys like crazy. Yeah, some guy DM me, he's like, hey, you want to put up a jersey in the studio to McKenna? We got a 72?

But I'm like, I don't know. When he's drafted, maybe. Yeah, otherwise, it's a tough look for the show. Yeah. I just find it, like, I see, like, guys going to, like, the Sabers game. I'm like, it's just a little much. We can be happy, but we don't need to throw it in people. Look at the size of these D-Sammie.

Chase Reed, 6-3, Albert Smith, 6-3, Chase, Keaton Verhoff, 6-4. D-1 seasons in the CHL, points per game. Gavin McKenna, 2.30, Sidney Crosby, 2.29. John Tavares, 2.0. Oh, Carter McDavid, 1.77. He's breaking to us that Gavin McKenna gets points.

Well, now that we know he gets points, this changes everything. Well, maybe they should run back what they had last year. That was fun. No points. No skill. Are you out a little early? Oh, yeah. We got U-11 select tryouts.

6 p.m. You're not going to leave me just with Sammy alone in this room, are you? I got a fill-in coming, surprise guest. Do you? Waiting outside the studio. Good, because I could strangle him if it's just the two of us. Every day. It would be a long day.

Also, Brian Lotton, former National Hockey League, agent, executive.