Real Kyper & Bourne - Maple Leafs Make a Move

Episode Date: December 19, 2022

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee kick off the week with a recap of... the World Cup Final? The guys share their thoughts on the similarities between hockey and soccer, the game ending with penalties and the Leafs' title drought vs. Argentina's drought. Afterwards, they break down the Leafs' 5-2 loss on Saturday to the Washington Capitals (8:40), a confidence-shaking game from Ilya Samsonov and the ineffectiveness of a five-forward powerplay. Later, Leafs Nation's host Gord Stellick (43:00) breaks down the Leafs trading Denis Malgin to the Avalanche for Dryden Hunt and what role the Buds' newest addition will have going forward. Finally, former NHLer and Hockey Night in Canada broadcaster Garry Galley (1:04:45) discusses the NHL's Christmas freeze-out, Alex Ovechkin's goal-scoring pace and goes coast-to-coast evaluating the Canadian teams. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. What a weekend. As we continue our shows, am I making you jumpier as we progress? No, I love your energy and I forget to bring it some days. The show starts and I'm like... No, no, no, and I forget to bring it sometimes. The show starts. No, no, no. We're off to the races here. It's Monday.

Defibrillator, let's go. And it was a great weekend. Full. Your laptop's just making sounds today. It does. Look at that. Volume down. All right.

Volume up on you down on the computer. Okay. Of course, we're going to get into the Leafs losing their second straight game Saturday night. But it was an incredible weekend of emotion. It was a goofy play the other day in the football game. Patriots and Raiders. I don't know if you saw it. They pitched it back.

It was tied. Just needed to go over overtime. That was goofy. But the emotion of the World Cup. I'm sorry. if you saw it where they pitched it back it was tied just needed to go over overtime yeah that was goofy but the emotion of the world cup i'm sorry i gotta start there i the single most incredible sporting spectacle i think i've ever witnessed unbelievable agree did you no no disagreement for me okay that's. Because you're younger. I lived a pretty good one in 1994 playing against Vancouver in a Stanley Cup final, which was really cool to experience.

But what I witnessed Sunday was like, I don't know, out of everyone's mind. I know. We probably should have actually clipped the the commentator at the argentino campione the unbelievable call after the win i just don't know how sports gets bigger than that moment really like if you think about just all the juicy narratives going into that game there's a lot of people saying that it was the biggest soccer game of all time heading into it. And then have it live up to that hype. And just all the legacy stuff on the line and the amount of swings in the game. Oh, my God, the swings.

So that's the first game, my six-year-old, the first sporting game that I really had him hooked on. And, I mean, talk about getting your claws into someone. If you want to build a sports fan, I had him convinced we're rooting for Argentina, right? He kind of wants Messi to cement his legacy by the kicks. I mean, he couldn't even watch. He's hiding behind me. Unbelievable.

I have to say that I was really invested in Argentina winning as well. I just, you know, it's one of those things where you want one of the best of all time to get his flowers and get his world cup and he did of course but i there's all these moments in the game but the best moment of the game for me maybe not pretty close was the save that the argentinian goaltender made at the end of extra time with those english 319 minute mark there was barely any time left. And he just makes this unbelievable split save on a wide open breakaway.

And nothing happens if that doesn't happen. And then, you know, it was just, I. It was one after another. It was moment after moment. So we're treated. You're supposed to come back from two nothing deficits in hockey, but not soccer. It happens more than you think. Really? Yeah yeah it does like it's

it's a it's a pretty dangerous lead in any sport because in hockey you're thinking oh my god we're up to this game's over bing one of the goals in the net and then you're one shot away it's pretty similar in soccer i just don't think you expect it to happen after 80 minutes of not getting nothing after argentina controlling 70 minutes of the game as handily as they did all of a sudden the pressure starts and mbappe is like an absolute you know hurricane yeah he was a one-man second volley was off the charts yeah and peter drury who called the game is an absolute artist i you know my tiktok algorithm i know you guys would be really thrilled to know that i have TikTok, but big TikTok guy, and my algorithm is literally just Peter Drury calling moments in that game now. Mbappe and Massey.

Yeah, kind of trumps Magic and... Jordan? Well, Bird. Magic and Bird? You think? I think it's a little bit. The only thing that I can remember that was close to this level, and it's not even close.

It's a different, it's not an international thing. But to me, Cubs and now Guardians, Game 6 in 2016, Game 7 in 2016, where both of them have these really long droughts on the line and there's all these swings in the game. And, you know, it goes to extra innings and there's a rain delay and all that. That's the only thing that I can think of that's even closer on the same level. You know what's so cool about this game, though,

is that no one failed for it to happen. And, yes, a couple guys missed a kick in penalties or whatever, but, I mean, it is just guys raising their level and raising their level and raising their level, you know, all the way through. Mbappe with a hat trick. I mean, my God. Imagine shooting.

Messi getting the one an extra time alone. He shot four balls into the net. I know. And lost. Oh, well, you don't even, do you feel bad when you go home after that? Like, I got nothing else to give. You feel very bad about it. I don't know.

One more. One more. We promise everybody, including. I have a Leafs parallel to this. So, when you're done. Just one more. We promise everybody, including... I have a Leafs parallel to this when you're done. Just one more. Penalty kicks. Yeah.

Don't you want to see them play until they fall off? I'm in the minority here. You've got to end the game. And the game would play... They guys could go forever. It's a finality. It's a reality of the game. You can't squeeze any more out of them shoot is that what you're saying shoot it in the big net you're standing on the spot shoot it in the big net i have no problem so you can convince me of

that just because you know okay let's see who's in better shape then someone's gonna make a mistake like it's not going to go forever i get that so yeah i'm not like opposed to that but for me that didn't dampen the experience it was like i don't know it was nice to have that you know you mentioned the finality like here okay like everyone knows the finish line's coming if you want to end it before that go ahead and make your push but you've won a championship on a skills competition and not a soccer pitch no it's different why is it different than it is with why because hockey is much more, it's not as traditional as part of the game. It's because it's what you're used to,

but also Kipper that penalties are an element in game of soccer. Every game. I mean, not maybe not every, but pretty close to every game. There's a penalty kick. Like there's not a breakaway shootout shot in every hockey game. We see one every 300 games or something.

So it's a little more relevant to the game action in that game right yeah all right well yeah so you swung me over a little bit yeah i get that at least it's a piece of it i get that i think the pressure on messi after mbappe makes his to get his you know kick his fourth in the net you know for that penalty for him and his legacy the pressure the people in the arena. They said 1.5 billion people around the globe watched that game. And I just. There was 8 billion on earth? How about Messi? Like most of the people?

Legitimately, his whole legacy on the line goes up to the penalty spot. He just rolls it. Cheeky. Oh my God. How would you blast it in, pal? He should never play another soccer game ever. I agree. He should just shut it down.

It will never get that good. Everything you do from here on in is just underneath. And even if someone catches your record, you say, yeah, but I tapped out at 35. End it now. End it now. Here's the interesting thing. Last two things for me. He has to go back to Paris.

He plays for Paris. With Mbappe. With Mbappe. So that should be an interesting one in the interesting thing. Last two things for me. He has to go back to Paris. He plays for Paris. With Mbappe. With Mbappe. So that should be an interesting one in the locker room. And the second thing for me is I've been obsessed with watching the celebration videos of Argentinians. Oh, man. It's just I've watched a million over the last 24 hours. I can't get enough.

And I think the parallel for me here with the Leafs is that I watch these videos of teams that haven't won in a long time, and I let myself dream what this would look like if, you know, God forbid that the Leafs ever lifted Lord Stanley's mug, if it would look even close to what Buenos Aires looks like today. I let myself dream on that and just think about what it would look like. Think about playing. Oh, my God. And dreaming that. I know. Even for five minutes. It's everyone's dream.

And unfortunately, Saturday night really didn't lead you to any dreaming. Well, I was at a wedding on Saturday night, so I watched the game today. And I have to say, after watching the World Cup final, watching a Leafs lose 5-2 after the fact, had a little bit less sting to it, let's just say. Oh, yeah? A little less boring. Go back and watch Anaheim. Oh, my God.

Right. Well, 5-2, but did it feel like that to you? Because the Leafs did get some quality looks. Yeah, though, it did. It did. Yeah, I don't know. Did you think the Leafs were better than 5-2? No.

I think they had ample opportunities to put the puck in the net, but Lingren was good. He was. Yeah, I mean, he was good. He probably could have handled the Willie one maybe. He was okay. I'll Lingren was good. He was. Yeah, I mean, he was good. He probably could have handled the Willie one, maybe. He was okay. I'll say he was good, but Leafs, you know, you can pull up the numbers, and they had a great second

period, and do we want to go to the clips on that? Yeah, let Chilton Keefe tell us about the second period. All right. Well, we had a dominant second period. I mean, dominant. I mean, I don't know how many scoring chances we had. At the very. I mean, dominant. I mean, I don't know how many grade A scoring chances we had. At the very least, it should have been tied going into the third,

if not us in the lead. And we don't make good on our chances. Their goaltender was good. We don't bear down. So you let the game hang around. And, you know, like I said, it's tough playing from behind. It's real tough when you come out and you want to get a push in the third and you're pulling out of your net 10 seconds in.

Yeah. Tough when you come out and you're pulling it out of your net 10 seconds in. Don't think he loves Sammy's game all that much? Well, no. Absolutely not. And I'm sure the emotions were going with him. We'll pick up Samsonov after we hear from his comments after the game. It's interesting.

I have nervous, a lot of emotion. Yeah. But the result, not too great. Okay. That's a good summary. Nervous. I don't really like hearing the word nervous. No? No. No, I don't. Back into his old team. Okay. That's a good summary. Nervous. I don't really like hearing the word nervous. No?

No. No, I don't. Back against his old team. Okay. I get it. Yeah. But if you're nervous for that game, try playing game one or game two of the Stanley Cup

when you are playing on an original six team that hasn't won in 55 years. How are you going to feel then? It's a good point. You know, you'd love the guy who's wildly overconfident and not afraid of any situation rather than the guy who in game 30 of the season was feeling it a little bit. And, yeah, like you can be nervous, sure.

You can be nervous, but you can't be as bad as he was in that game after being nervous. Two American Hockey League goals went in on him. The first two. The first two in the first period. So is that because you were nervous? Because that worries me. If those goals go in because you're nervous,

then I don't want a nervous goalie if I'm kyle dubas and my leaf career hangs in the balance and you know what it does too is it makes other people nervous like sammy my boy nervous today about samsonov and what it means for him yeah listen i think there's been a sample size here of him playing really well to start the year but when he has performances like that around the 10 game mark which it's gone south for him after the 10 game mark and a lot of different seasons with the with the capitals you know the thoughts crossed your mind and i agree with you kipper hearing him say he's nervous going against his former team maybe the whole ovechkin thing looming over top of him to him breaking the record i don't know what maybe that was part of him being nervous him returning

but yeah i the words nervous are not something you want to hear come out of your goalie's mouth, and I'm pretty sure they would never come out of Matt Murray's mouth. We got Sheldon Keefe on a Kipper's Clipper, don't we, on Samsonov? We do, yeah. Let's pick it up from there. I mean, I didn't get much of a sense. I don't spend a lot of time with the goalies, you know, on game day especially,

but you can understand why it would be an emotional return for anybody first game first time back but you got to go through it i mean you can't you can't avoid playing here uh here forever and he's he's played a lot of good hockey for us you know he had some there were some tough bounces around him here tonight but you know we didn't take care of the puck well enough either on especially goals three four and five okay so he hangs the first two on him. Yep. And then he hangs the next three on his team. But I think Sheldon said it, really, without saying it.

He's got to go through it. The only question is, is what else are you going to have to go through it with him if, in fact, he finds himself in the net in critical games down the stretch or in the first round? Well, this is the fear, and it was the fear or in the first round well this is the fear and it was the fear going into the season and remains the fear is just no one going into the season said murray and samsonov are the best tandem in the nhl they have played like the second best tandem

in the nhl thus far so i think it's reasonable that their performance was going to decline at some point and you're giving the title to so far to boston okay all mark and swimming but you know they've been very close to the best and so you get in this situation it's like you want to have some forgiveness for them but there's a part of me that's like i was worried at the start of the year about this duo are they going to regress wildly and we're going to have the jack campbell effect from here on out and then we're panicking by march they need someone else you know the worst case scenario wreckage of the future is a certain program calls it no i mean it's was a gamble coming into the season for a reason like there's not like it was uh you know the sure thing but they've been a sure thing to this point but i think a lot of

this just has to do with measuring against last year fellas right which is a thing that it's a completely different situation, we hope. Different people. Different people, different things. But I think there's a lot of Leaf fans that think back to what happened after December last year and are having bad memories. Right? Because I think the goaltending has been pretty, I guess, has it been two straight games?

Well, come on. We're talking about since that California road trip that this team's had their foot on the pedal for a very long stretch here. And I include the goalies, but maybe what we're witnessing is a little bit of coming back to earth a little bit. And I'm certainly not ready to write these goalies off just yet here with,

but there's a, there's a natural dip to to question it a little bit i gotta think we'll get more of a feel for not just the goaltenders but the rest of the team after tuesday night when tampa bay comes into town who are are playing very well again oh yeah tampa's just red hot you know, get away from Samsonov. To me, the one thing that I did see Saturday night is just a little bit of a, I don't know if it's an exhale, but just a little bit of the foot coming off the pedal a little bit.

And if we go to Samsonov, I'll go to John Tavares, who I think has been absolutely terrific out of the gate. Yep. But that was the worst game I've seen so far out of JT. With Pucker, with energy, with what? Everything. Yeah. Everything.

Okay. And I might put energy at the top of it. Just he had no legs. He didn't have any push, not the drive that I've seen, and maybe it's just because he's been on such a long stretch of hard hockey. I've watched him battle.

We've all watched him battle all season. We talked about how him and Mitch are getting D-zone starts. Every other year, he's been O-zone. And I just saw, I didn't see the energy out of him, and I didn't see the leg strength. I didn't see. 11 games now he has two goals over the last 11. When you see John at his best, it is, his legs are there.

Yeah. And I didn't see any legs out of him Saturday night. And you know what the biggest tipping point for me off when John doesn't have any legs? Face-offs. Can't win face-offs. Yeah. He's typically been an over 50% guy.

I don't know. Was it bad on Saturday? I didn't notice that. All I know is they had a couple of power play opportunities. Chasing down the ice. And JT loses draws. And now it's a minute and 30 power play yeah yeah that's the worst do you want to talk about the power play yeah for sure and i'll start on

win face-offs yeah off the power play yeah again crucial i think john john's probably been at a 50 pace and some nights he's he looks like the best face-off guy on the planet yep uh last saturday night he was dreadful yeah i look at it but yeah i didn't notice that but that's so that that's the first thing i see out of a power play is give yourself a chance with puck possession it's huge and and you know one of the things that i wildly disagree with analytics on is i'll tell you that power plays are not that sorry face-offs are not that crucial just in general that you know it all kind of evens out after seven seconds a play or whatever but not power plays power plays it's like you need the hockey puck what do you think his face-off percentage was

on saturday night i want to say 35 percent morning i since i didn't notice it and i'm here in kipper uh i'm gonna go 34.9 25 percent yeah yeah not a good night it's a bad night what is he on the year though can you find us that yeah for sure i can thank you one second yeah he is 51.3 for his career this season he is is 60.6. 60% this season. So he's got to be near the top of the league there. Yeah. So when I see his, when I see him. Oh, I lied to you.

59.8. All right. When I see John protecting pucks and rolling off of guys in front of the net for great positioning, and you know that his leg strength's there, then, you know, he's going to be a dangerous guy. Yeah. Wonder, you know, wonder if it is just, it was a lot of use early in the season, too many minutes,

or if it's just the natural progression of a season of a guy who's in his late 30s, or sorry, mid, early 30s, actually. He's in 31 or something. I feel like he's 90. Listen, whether you're, you know, John's not the most natural skater, so he's got to work his ass off

to get from point A to point B but even with the natural skaters it really helps over the course of 82 games but they'll even have lulls and they'll even have stretches when they just don't have it and I think maybe a Christmas break will come in handy to him. The other guy that I think is feeling it a little bit,

Mark Giordano. Yeah. Saturday night. Another guy who I go has maybe taken the foot off the gas pedal for very good reasons. Yeah. He's almost 40. And he's been playing some nights 22, 23 minutes.

To me, I watched him Saturday night, and he felt those playing some nights 22 23 minutes to me i watched him saturday night and and he felt those minutes yeah i mean i didn't mind him much you know the times i did notice him i thought he was okay but you know one thing that has changed is his minutes have gone down since brody has come back you're right pre brody that was way too much for geo he's getting buried when when you didn't have enough guys since brody's been back he's playing i think it's 1845 a night would you want him less than that yes yeah and they will when morgan comes back yeah one more on the left side yeah which will help him get him to 17 or something like that i didn't like his play off the hathaway goal to start that that's the game right there yeah they try to go d to d he goes up the wall and jensen steps in in front of uh

bunting and then he he beats giordano yeah how many times that happened this year with the leafs with they getting scored on within the first 10 seconds of a period it felt like every every game during their bad stretch there it was the first 10 seconds of a period or felt like every every game during their bad stretch there it was the first 10 seconds of a period or first 20 or first minute it's actually going the net early in the season we talked a lot about bad starts or slow starts to period and is this the coach's fault and if not so then they were wonderful yeah run a hockey so i think something to all or nothing kipper's point about them maybe feeling a little tired a little fat fatigued here, that some of their bad habits are trickling back in from their cold stretch.

Right? Again, and listen, I kind of brought it up a little bit Friday, but this is where I think Sheldon needs to go and identify certain things. And if Tavares is having a bad night well don't let him take a

face off anymore when you got 34 out there you don't have to win it to the wall why does he keep throwing him out there he's having a tough night make the adjustment yep get him out of the face-off circle yeah so I mean stuff like that yeah I think it's simple interesting that they they're so concerned with handedness in the side of the ice like you know matthews is out there and a very good face-off guy by his own right so do they feel like it's gonna piss jt off he's gonna lose them i don't know it's one of those things if a guy is whatever two and four or two and five in the circle are you ready to pull the plug and say he's not going to be a 500 the night. I agree with you there, Boren.

It's hard for a guy that's almost 60% this year to be like, oh, he's lost two in a row. Better get him out of there. You kind of have to trust that he's going to find his level and he just had a bad night. He got cleaned out. He won three draws of the 12 he took. They go 0-3 against Anaheim. They go 0-3

against New York and they went 0-2 Saturday night. Power play? Power play. And we got a look at five forwards. I just wanted to anaheim they go oh for three against new york and they went over to saturday night power play and we got a look at five forwards did you see i just wanted just as a reference uh matthews what do you think his percentage was on in the face off i'm on saturday night oh probably 70 or something now 80 80 yeah he uh probably gonna tap all 91 on the shoulder and said i'm gonna handle this one took 15 draws and 112 of of them. So pretty good. You know what's funny though? And you know, Kipper, I'm sure you went through this too.

I don't know if you played much center, but like some guys just match up well or poorly against another guy. You know, I remember seeing this in the minors. Byron Fraze was on our team and he was very good in face-offs. They got all the records there. What's that? Face-offs. Oh yeah.

Against who? Yeah. But I remember guys coming in, phrases one on one, saying, you know, Tanner Richard, and he owns me. And we're looking, you know, what does this guy do? Sometimes the guy's just got your number. I don't know if that was just a bad matchup for JT or what. Five forwards on a power play.

Those of you who hated it, raise your hands. I'm putting mine up. I'm going to be that guy who's like i didn't see enough let's do a small sample that's gonna be me here sorry yeah i'll put my hand up yeah i it's just to me it's i i guess it's just that it's not traditional and immediately i get my backup about it like i want one d-man out there at least but at the same time what's the point of having a d-man out there if you're trying to score this is i think it needs to get enough run and it's never going to get enough run this is the biggest reason why and i don't even have to watch any of it yeah is because the first thing i think of is the reason why you

have five forwards out there is because your defense suck that's it that's the only reason it is and if i'm six defensemen on the bench now watching everybody the message is clear they're better at that than you are in my opinion as of right this minute but and i'm offended i'm offended yeah well you're offended then sit on the bench when the letter i mean you can't argue that the five guys out there are better at it you know the only case you can make is the guy like here's the problem though is that you think these guys are so sensitive yeah they are they are then they're sucks right and they're babies and they pout sucks and babies and pouts yeah good luck go find go find the perfect hockey player that can do what they can do and still not at times pout and they are it's a natural thing well then let him pout though yeah then you got a problem with the head coach i don't

know yeah i just these guys are grown-ups what are we talking and then they don't score and then maybe it's morgan or maybe it's sandin where he gets thrown out there for the last 15 seconds i'd be pissed for sure and you know what they say to the coach? You go out there and score the, with 15 seconds on the power play. Yeah, I know. And then you're on,

you're the guy. By theory, I agree with you a hundred percent. Yeah, I know you're, you're trafficking in reality. Reality is I know these guys and I know that I've seen it before. I've sat beside them before.

Of course, they will turn around and go, screw you. But at the end of the day, when they say screw you, your coach puts you on the ice and they try their hardest because they're professionals. So let them say screw the coach. Here's the point. I'm not saying this in defense of five forwards

because five forwards, every time I've seen it in practice, which is the American League and now a little bit in the NHL, it's bad. It has not worked. There's chances to go the other way. It's a bad spot. Did Keefe do it with you guys, the Marlies? Yeah, and I've told the story a few times. Okay, tell it again.

Like the third game in a row where we tried it, we'd given up two or three shorthanded goals. Oh, really? And Dubas came in, I think, before the third game and said, we're not doing that anymore. And Keith said, we got to give it some run. We did it again.

We got scored on again. And it was like, it was the big blow up of the two of them post game when Dubas is yelling at him for doing it. And Sheldon's calling him big mouth. And they're, you know, they're mad about it.

And Kyle's the progressive guy, but when it doesn't work, but here's, I just think you need the forward to play that d roll long enough to get used to it but you're never going to let it go long enough because you're going to give up some shorties so maybe this is why keith was like we should try barner at d right because his whole idea was to make him comfortable back there was to do this on the power but i did it in college i played d on the power play and i got cooked all the time. It was terrible. It was not effective.

On a scale of one to five, where is your backwards skating? I found out real quick. I feel like I did that on this show, but I shot it into Mason Raymond's shin pads. He was playing for Minnesota Duluth, and I'm starting at a stop and chasing Mason Raymond, who beat me by a zone and a half back to my net. He's just like a kid.

He's a speedster, too. Oh, yeah. That was his number one skill was skating. He was so fast. beat me by a zone and a half back to my net he's just like he's a speedster too oh yeah that's his number one skill was skating yeah he was so fast missed the shot gotten a rebound played with it like he was playing rebound by himself or something but i just i just find it hard to believe that here we are at the christmas break almost and now you're going to develop five forwards to the point where they will be absolutely ready in the first round of the playoffs no but i wonder if they're like let's say riley's hurt or whatever is this an option for us yeah and this would be the time of year to figure it out did he try it against anaheim or Or did he wait for the Rangers and the Washington Capitals on the road?

Yeah, well, were they down too when they went to it? No, the plan was to use it going into the game, right? That was the original plan. Yeah, if you're Sandin and Riley's out and this is your chance to earn a spot, it's probably very frustrating. I don't think the improvement you get by going five forwards is worth it and i think that i'm looking at the standings now here and listen i know it's only the least we've only lost a couple games in a row here it's not the end of the world but tampa's coming here right like they are getting hot now and you're looking at the standings and

they went what were they behind the lease a ago? They were 10 points or whatever, 8 points behind the Leafs. They're now 3 points back of you with 2 games in hand. Yeah, with 2 games in hand. So maybe the time for experimenting is not now. No, it's now. It's still now? Well, they're playing Tampa no matter what. Yeah, but home ice matters, Borny.

You went through an amazing stretch of what? 18 with points, consecutive points. What was it? 15, yeah. 15. 15. And you look at who provided all the offense, and it came from your forwards.

You can't, no one's scoring back there. There's no offense coming from your back end. It was funny when Lilligren got back in, he shot two in the net, and everyone's like, nice to have a guy who can shoot it coming from your back end it was funny when lilligren got back in he shot two in the net and everyone's like nice to have a guy you can shoot it in from the back hold on oh they'll be last they're blue by d they i would imagine they're last like almost dead last yeah that's not really a good thing for team a top five team in the nhL. Let me just do a quick perusal of goals here by D Kipper. The top scoring D on the team is Sandin with two Lilligren with two geo with one Brody,

one hall, one that puts them what? 29th in the league. It's gotta be last. I just can't imagine having less goals. So that to me, it's a bit of a, of a white flag for Sheldon to tell everybody that we're not getting any

production from the backend. Therefore I have to go with five or is it, or is it Kyle's Kyle's call to me? No, it doesn't. Well, I think it would be Sheldon's call, but to me,

I don't think it matters if it's a signal to the other team has stats too. Like they know they don't get action from back there. I just think the difference between having, who did they add to the top unit bunting? But it'sting gonna help you more than sandin how many more is he gonna get i don't know but but then you just there's one thing to keep throwing them out there and hoping that it'll turn and then there's another thing to say uh no um no we're gonna sit you down now So what do you want to see him do? Get somebody, trade for somebody. Yeah, okay, now we're talking.

You don't think Connor Timmons is the guy? Yeah, listen, what's he got, five points, six points? Six points in six games or seven games. I mean, things are going well, but I don't know if I'm going to, again, take him from an Arizona organization where he was not a regular player and turn him into this 20-minute guy who can provide offense by the first round of the playoffs. Like, it's not realistic.

No, it's not. It's not. And you can see them wanting it to work out, right? To be the smartest guys in the room and find this guy. By the way, Ovechkin absolutely gave him a story to tell when he's retired about playing against Alex Ovechkin, putting him into the Capitals bench cleanly. Just as a quick aside with the Leafs' defensive scoring, there are 10 defensemen in the league with more goals

than the Leafs' D-court, totally. Are you kidding me? The Leafs have six from their defensemen, and then there's 10 guys that have seven and above. Oh, 10 players that have seven and above. Oh, 10 players that have seven and above. Oh, I thought you were saying there's only 10 teams. No, no, there's 10 guys in the league that have more goals than the Leafs' D-core for the back end.

Okay. So the other thing that stood out for me Saturday night is led by the Ovechkin hit on Timmons is their physical team. The Leafs cannot go shoulder to shoulder with a team like that. They're going to have to outskill you. They should get rid of someone a little like Mulligan for a physical guy, don't you think?

So do you remember Friday show? I asked you. I don't remember anything. I used to drink a lot. Friday show, I asked you if there was a certain experiment going on right now and if the experiment should end. Was it Mulligan? It sounds familiar. I asked you guys on Friday's show, when is the Mulligan experience or project?

I don't know how I phrased it over and now we have our answer right out of the league what was that you've been maligned right out of the league i don't know where that came from thanks derek uh we know the the maligan uh experiment is over yeah and you know what in retrospect now that it's like today, Yarncroft is back and today Malgan got traded, the Malgan experience was probably over a week and a half ago. And they were like, okay, we agree. No, no, no.

It was alive and well Saturday night. Was it? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. You don't think it was like, listen, Colorado, as soon as we get Yarncroft back, we'll finalize this deal, but we just need the body right now? I would think that when

i watched the leafs break out i believe on the third goal it went marner off the wall it went through uh matthews the backhand pass from kuznetsov but What a pass. It was Marner to Mulligan on the tape and this guy doesn't even have his stick down. And then within five seconds, it's the turnover in the neutral zone and it's back in your net. That's when

the experiment was over for Mulligan. Seen enough. And it felt like he played a lot in that game and I just went and checked and he did play a lot. He played over 15 minutes in that game. Yes. Well, you play him on the second line. There's going to be games that happen,

particularly when you're chasing the game and looking for offense. If it wasn't Marner that maybe got to somebody and said, enough. Absolutely enough. I'd rather retire than play another shift with Mulligan. Tapped out on playing with that guy. If Marner didn't say that, then somebody else said it. And listen, I would completely understand it if I'm Marner.

Have you seen how good I've been playing? This is the left winger that you got me with here? I got 23 games, a consecutive streak, playing with guys like this. Well, and if you're the Leafs, you're going, that's great. We can put anyone with you and you'll put it together for us. Yeah. And T times two in April. Like a fan for another team sometimes.

Hey, so what do we hear about? They traded him for Dryden Hunt. Correct. From Colorado. And it's going to come in not as skilled as Mulligan. No, though he did have

120 points in junior one year. We haven't seen any signs of that. Nope. Oh, American League, he had 23 goals twice. Sounds like my career. I was going to say, is this Kipper we're talking about? If they want to win a cup in game seven i scored 24 with the hershey bears yeah and then turned into a mucker

and a grinder and an energy guy you should love dryden hunt i'm gonna tell you i'm gonna love him a lot more than malgan yes i can confirm that he is top 10 and hits per 60 minutes good enough for me he doesn't sound like a typical dubious guy no but the pendulum swinging on what he needs and saturday night was another example i i i don't want to see a team run me. And that's what essentially, when you see a guy like Ovechkin, and again, at age 37, it's mind-boggling that this guy not only does it, but wants to do it. It's unbelievable that that guy's got the energy for everything he's gone through to still go out there

and hit Timmons like a bag of feathers yeah yeah no it's a huge hit it is it's not just the physical ability it's the continued desire to chase down the bodies that is i think one of the most electrifying type of hits for the guy goes into the the bench great and i don't feel like i've seen a lot of those in the last couple years but god he just got him right in the sweet spot. Hands on the logo, straight into the bench. And there's nothing better than the guys in the bench looking at him being like, I'm not helping you for one second. Get the hell out of here.

A little tug back to see if you can make it harder if you can. I love that kind of hit. But that's why I think you go and try to, you know, change it up a little bit with Hunt. But if you're... So, just to represent the conversation that's happening about this trade on social media anyway is the Leafs don't need another guy who doesn't score. They don't need another good defensive player.

They don't... The bottom six need scoring, Kipper. They need scoring. No. No, they need a guy like Hunt to go and do what Ovechkin did to somebody just a little bit. Did you like him hitting your boy Pasternak, that clip? I did. Yeah, I did. I don't think

that happens a ton. I hope there's a few more looks like that. You know what? A lot of people are comparing him to Zach Aston Reese, but I was saying if you could have Zach Aston Reese with a pulse, this would be no disrespect to Aston Reese. He was the only one that tried to hit Saturday night. Yes, and listen, I've actually been very

impressed with him as a guy on the cheap in that role. He's been good. But yeah, it'd be nice to have someone a little more. Bringing a ton of energy, unfortunately, but he doesn't have that personality to go above and beyond that. But at least he's trying out there. I didn't see anyone else try to finish a check at all.

They want to out-skill you, and that's the only way. But boys, do you do you envision like the leafs playing say a team like washington and physically being able to withstand that type for six or seven games it would be very challenging especially and guess who's no wilson that's exactly no tom wilson saturday night i will say once again it was nice to watch the caps play the least without tom wilson again because it's just you're constantly worried about him when he's on the ice i know they threw the body around a little bit but like there's no one there's just no answer for tom because he stays on the ice is hunt maybe the start of maybe grabbing a few more that can kind of push back a little bit well you know what roster spots how many roster

spots can they turn over and what difference will it make so they're missing i think we're in consensus they're missing a left winger to play in the top six and a defenseman of some variety who can hit a body so that's a place you can get more physical i would like a defense and i can hit the net you know like you think you're missing that a lot i don't know just oh just score a goal like hit the mesh with the puck right yeah yeah you think klingberg's gonna i don't know be the answer to i just what kipper's talking about i think the not being able to score from the back end is a super underrated story from this season i really do think it matters and when you you need that little bit of contribution here and there when your top four guys aren't going.

Yeah. They don't even get shots from the top all that much. It all is generated down low for the Leafs. So yeah, Dryden Hunt, points and junior, physical guy. How many games has he got under his belt? He was with the Rangers too. The Rangers kind of liked him. Yeah.

There was times when I saw him up in the lineup with the Rangers. He's played 193 games in his career. He's got 14 goals, 28 assists. And that year you talk about what the Rangers was the most he played was 76 games. He had 17 points, 52 pims. Yeah, he's played five playoff games in the NHL. Like in the American League, we're looking at 23 goals in 58 games 23 goals in 51 games like he obviously can handle the puck is the reason i bring that up yeah you know like he's

not a meatball he's six foot 195 money in money out they both make the same amount right 750 or 50 750 760 yeah colorado's looking for a guy that can maybe drop in every once in a while in the top six presumably they're so injured they just need someone they're hoping can score more with a little bit more skill can find it yeah so at the very least i think the leafs have got themselves a maybe a poor man's obey kubel yeah don't say that a rich man's rich man a very rich man obey kubel yeah i like having someone 27 years old in the fourth line. A guy who's got some experience, can still play with energy. Like you don't have to be Patrick Marlowe or Jason Spezza,

and you don't have to be an up-and-coming rookie. Just go do your thing. Give us the best year career. I like it. I'm good. Change is just for the sake of a change. I like it. And he probably knows what he's coming in to do.

Yeah. Right. Oh, yeah. We got enough people shooting in the net. You go run into people. And probably I would imagine Sheldon keeps going to have a chat with him quickly about the role that Kyle Clifford. Exactly.

Healthy. When, you know, not a wear and tear Clifford, a younger version, healthier defensively to his numbers. Maybe he killed a penalty here and there. Love that.

Let's see. We'll have to look that up at the break. All right. We're going to take a quick break. Stelicricity. It's coming Let's see. We'll have to look that up at the break. All right. We're going to take a quick break. Stelictricity is coming on board here. Gord Stelic, Leaf Nation pre and post. We're going to have him talk about the Leafs and whether or not Samsonov is making him nervous

like he's making our Sammy. All right. All right. More after the break. Real Kipper and Bourne. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590, The Van. Big holiday plans there, JB. Yeah, we do the alternate years.

Who's family? So it's a ghillie's year. So we'll be in Long Island. I'm going to go to a game on the 23rd, see these Washington Capitals. Oh, you got a little OV history. Oh, yeah, it's possible. I never thought of that. You know what they have?

You had a couple chances Saturday night. Sure did. You know what they have at UBS Arena is ice-level suites. You know, you kind of go behind, you come up from below. Listen, all these new rinks yeah people are barely watching the games oh man there's so much going on so much going on everybody's talking everybody's schmoozing well and like those seats become another thing for corporate people to buy up and send the people who don't actually care but want to say they

went to a game so you know gonna know, going to go do that. You guys got a little bit of that experience at Scotiabank Arena and Drake's club. Yes, sir. And coming in, by the way, when I come back with full Islanders propaganda. Like I'm going to be with Ledecky, with the owner of the team. Oh, my God. We're going to get all the info and I'm going to come and be like, have you ever noticed Brock Nelson's the best player in the league?

You're going to be trading players by then? Yeah, we'll see. I'll see what I can do. Lean on, yeah. You and Lou. It has been a rough little stretch for the Isles, although they did get a win the other night. All right.

Where's our buddy Gord Stelic? Let's find out. Kippy, Justin, how are you guys doing i'm just i'm about nobody told me you were there waiting i wouldn't have had uh it wouldn't you know me ramble i wouldn't have gone on i don't really care about you know jb's christmas plans i want to come to you well i'm out there i mean the big news can dryden back with the leafs unless i haven't found my glasses so i'm just going to cover all that. That came from nowhere, huh? Did not see that coming.

What do you think about the blockbuster trade, Mulligan, for your friend Dryden Hunt? Well, it's like, I don't imagine. I don't know. Do you play chess? Do you play chess, Justin? I mean, I am capable of it, but I wouldn't say I actively play it. So it's like, you know, I take your white pawn

and you take my black pawn. Right? That's, you know, the queens and the horsey guys and the castles and everything, the rooks, they're all... You make it sound like pawns aren't valuable at all. You know, they turn into queens, right? Well, no, they don't. They can help you capture the queen.

They can't, but, you know, the big gun is still the queen. Austin Matthews is still, well, the queen, whatever, you know, in mixed gun is still the queen. Austin Matthews is still, well, the queen, whatever. You know, when Mitch Marner is the queen. The queen of derail. Whatever. The metaphor is lost. Hey, stick to checkers, buddy.

The horsey guy is Rasmus Sandin because he can go, you know, two forward, one sideways and that. So, hey, I don't know. Be no kippy. And, Justin, like I always say, everybody wants, first of all, there are no blockbuster trades hardly. There hasn't been one yet. I mean, you know, we had, like, Jack I always say, everybody wants – first of all, there are no blockbuster trades hardly. There hasn't been one yet. I mean, you know, we had like Jack Eichel last year and things like that for certain reasons.

But if you're Kyle Dubas or any general manager, whatever moves you make, if more often than not you incrementally improve your team, then that's how you get better. Whether it's a trade, whether it's a draft, whether it's developing a player, whether it's calling somebody up, whether it's, you know, the roster rearranging the line. So, you know, I mean, but so, okay, so we're talking about Mogan. The chance on the top six just didn't happen. He's got to be that kind of player. So it seems, and in Dryden Hunt's case, a bit more sandpaper, you know, not exactly like, you know, a ton of sandpaper, but a bit different that way. So a bit of a different option because really they don't have a ton of sandpaper, you know, not exactly like, you know, a ton of sandpaper, but a bit different that way.

So a bit of a different option because really they don't have a ton of sandpaper. They got, you know, they've got Kyle Clifford somewhere. They got Wayne Simmons still that are kind of heavyweights if needed, but they don't seem to really have a regular place for them. So what did you see Saturday night? A team that just missed some opportunities to win a hockey game, a team that didn't go shoulder to shoulder with the Washington Capitals, thus you trade

for a more physical hunt. Where does Saturday night lie with you? I can't see a trade predicated on that. You do see like Ryan Reeves what he's done in Minnesota in a short period of time and he's a way different player than Dryden Hunt, but they, you know, they needed

some of that. And, you know, the wild seem at least in the short term, I've got that, but you know, Kippy, so, okay. A lot of this is due after the phenomenal run that they've had. The one worry is, and I'm, worry is a bit too strong a word, but you start to look and say, how many of the games, I love Danny Gallivan so I'll use the word scintillating goaltending I mean the Leafs had a run of incredible goaltending so I mean Washington in some ways was it much different than the Dallas game how they started when they beat them shut them out for nothing but you know got killed on the first power play gave up three chances when they were when they when they had a power play three short-handed chances

to Dallas you know that kind of thing so yeah just – it was the kind of game that just – they hadn't played the previous 15. They're due for a couple of those. So, I mean, we're kind of looking – would Ovi get the hat trick? I don't think we really expected Gustafson to be the guy. So, it was something we haven't seen of late, just one of those games that you kind of just – oh, it wasn't very compelling. And, I mean're i mean they're gonna happen let's face it the guy

i don't i don't read a lot into it gordon uh you know i wanted to weigh in on the hunt thing before uh you know we'll go back to the hockey game but i wanted to ask your opinion because you've built nhl teams before and i wanted to get a sense if you think teams are better better off having sort of guys who do a little bit of everything or specialty guys because to me hunt is a guy he's more of a specialty guy right you know what he does he's gonna hit and forecheck and whatever i was saying to mckee before the show i'd rather have you know instead of having 10 swiss army knives to build a treehouse i'd rather have a hammer and uh you know all the tools whatever other tools you like french pliers all that sort of stuff do you think it makes makes more sense for the Leafs to have specialists like Hunt

than guys who kind of do a little bit of everything? Yeah, especially like on the fourth line. Like, I mean, you want to get the one or two guys that can play on any line. That's kind of neat. But, I mean, they have to be better than either a Malkin or a Hunt. So, like I said, in Malkin's case, you know, if he's not – Hunt is a better third or especially fourth line player than Mulligan, who, you know, is supposed to have some scoring ability, you know, what have you,

and it really hasn't been borne out. So I agree with you there at some point. Again, I'm not going to go back to the chess analogy, but about having different kind of pieces that you can plug in. So, you know, money's pretty well awash, you know, incrementally different, pretty well awash, and I think, yeah, that's probably, you know, I thought Blackwell was a nice add last year, but, you know, money's pretty well awash, you know, incrementally different, pretty well awash. And I think, yeah, that's probably – you know, I thought Blackwell was a nice add last year, but, of course, he got too much money to go elsewhere

in the offseason. So, I mean, you know, those are these – as you know, Kippy, you want to stay on the cup as much as with Marc Mercier, but whether it's guys like you or everybody else around the New York Rangers on that third and fourth line. We're talking to Gord Stelik, Leap Nation pre and post game. We heard from Samsonov after the game. He admitted he was a little bit nervous.

Does that make you nervous like it makes our Sammy nervous, that he was nervous? Oh, Sammy. I wasn't that nervous. What? Sammy offered Jack Campbell an eight-year contract last year at 12.5, right? He was going to match McDavid, right, to keep Jack Campbell in Toronto.

Is that not right, guys? Yeah, you nailed it, Gordo. I think so. Yeah, yeah. So Sammy, the great part is that's the fan, Sammy, right? And that's the best part is how the ups and downs, and you ride that kind of roller coaster. So I like guys being human, okay?

So rather than the stand pad answer all the time, admit you got a little bit of butterflies and all that. That part I'm okay with. Because sometimes that comes up with your best game ever, and other times it didn't work out so much. The problem is if it happens time and time again, and you're in the playoffs, and that's the thing. So I'm okay with him being human and having a human kind of feeling.

Like, Kippy, first time you played your old team, what was that like? My first game in the NHL was against guys they just finished, like, having a 30-day training camp with and living with them every day and driving with them. And it was ridiculous that I thought I could play that game. But, yeah, I guess there's always nerves a little bit. The question is, did they affect you so much that they play into the first couple of goals scored? That's all.

Oh, yeah. And, you know, Justin, I've always said that, like, when you get drafted, and I think it's still the same, it's kind of like your flag, right? Like, you know, there's just so much pride. It's your franchise. And when you get traded the first time, like, it really hurts. And then it becomes a business, right? Then after that, you're used to it.

You can leave on your own volition as a free agent. You get traded two, three, four times. You never know what's going to happen. But I think the first time just has a little bit of that element. So, you know, Kippy and Justin, did that factor into those goals? Like, it wasn't a great game. So if that was one of the factors, fine. It wasn't a good game at all for a guy that so far has very pleasingly

given the Toronto Maple Leafs a lot of real solid goaltending. For sure. What are your thoughts at the other end of the rink on them going away from Sandin on power play one and going with a five forward look? Don't like it. Never have. Okay. Never have.

Yes. One for me. Yeah. I'm not Rasmus Sandin's agent either. I just, I never have. Never have. I've actually liked, you know, I just like the way, it's funny, it's great. I've loved the way Sandin's embraced the opportunity.

A veteran like Giordano's embraced the extra ice time. A guy like Justin Hall, who really seemed to be struggling, has played well when they really needed him to. And yeah, so I so Justin, yeah, I've never been big on the five forwards. So Gord, we were just mentioning earlier in the

show that there's no offense coming from the back end. Morgan Riley should be back maybe in another week, week and a half. But is that enough, feeling like Morgan's coming back equivalent to maybe making a trade? Or do they got to go outside? Is it a hulking defenseman they need? Or do they need someone that could push the pace of play for offense?

Are we getting back to 20 goal Morgan? Like, you know, the Morgan Riley that scored 20 the one season. And Kippy, and again, I'll go back to your Ranger days, but there was no cap, so I can't really go back then. But basically at the trade deadline, did both, like you're talking about, did a little bit of everything, right? You try to add depth and try to add plug more holes. So they could use both of those.

I think what we've discussed before is that the Nick Foligno type trade is not needed anymore. Like giving up a first round pick for, you know, that kind of hired gun, you know, it's got to almost be Patrick Kane now or something like that. I don't know. Like it really does. It has to be like when Brian Leach came over. That kind of thing, if you're going to be giving away things of that magnitude,

I think otherwise from within and just hoping. I keep using Nick Paul as the example because he's a big reason the Leafs got eliminated. But one or two Leafs players in the playoffs and Kerfoot's the guy that's, geez, come on, he's got to be a guy that gives you more offense, particularly at the money he's making. It's just those kind of guys have to come up with some offense in the playoffs in particular. And I thought that was one of the, you know, again,

when you're on a hot run like they were before the last two games, you started getting a little bit more of that depth scoring coming, and that's got to sustain. Gord, trying to get a sense for where the leafs are at um in the season right now like going into into the christmas break if you know kipper mentioned them kind of taking their foot off the the gas a little bit on saturday night it just didn't seem like you know they quite brought their a game you think we're kind of entering that stretch of the season where teams just throw their rosters out there and the better

team wins more often than not yeah you know from time to time justin they're like i mean 82 games it's a long season even like working for a team or covering a team you know there's dog days and there's a lot of people kind of yelling at the radio going you kidding me i'd keep my i give my eye you know my teeth to work for a team or cover it but but it is it's just like you know and and and players are human as well and and really as long as they're fine-tuned for what really matters, you get it. You're okay. And that's what a good coach has a handle about that,

about, you know, whether it's about pushing them hard, give them a bit of a break, what's been going on. Justin, the big box, here's what they checked for me over this winning streak. Okay, a number of things. So I think there's a huge positive heading into the Christmas break. You know, one is this is a team or people around the team or us make way too many excuses when they get injuries.

I don't know what it is. Jake Muzzin, Columbus, John Tavares, Montreal, whatever. Oh, my God, we can't win. We've lost, you know. And Boston starts the season without Brad Marchand and Charlie McAvoy. And I like that this time they rose to the occasion with those kind of significant injuries. Our debate about is Mitch Marner beloved or not,

I think is over. Okay. They like him. They like him. Everything's good. Whatever residue in the past, fact, fiction, social media, whatever, it's understood.

The appreciation for a really great player is there. So I like that. And the other part is they dealt with some adversity. Like you can't have you can't go out and make fake adversity and they went out and and i think part of it the leadership group the young leaders at least on the ice i gotta think within i think they pushed each other i think they pushed each other to play complete two-way games without giving up much offense i really think they pushed each other to bring their game

and bring the team game and put the onus more on them to a whole different level. And here when you, hey, any team lose their top three defensemen, they're in big trouble, right? And the Maple Leafs went out with this kind of adversity, and that took the heat off Kyle Dubas, because holy mackerel, you lose five games in a row, and you've got these kind of injuries on defense.

He's got to look at making a kind of move that he really wouldn't have probably wanted to make. So I like that they dealt with a real, real significant amount of adversity. Is there any reason to play the next 50 games, or should we just take Toronto and Tampa right now in a best-of-seven? Hey, how about Toronto-Winnipeg in the stanley cup final that would be neat that would be neat i hey you know i i hear a lot of and you you guys hear the same thing fans that have said well you know and and and hey some of them are actually right they always remain fans

but they go wake me up when it's game 83 and that's understandable for what's been going on but you know what before these last two games they, they got intrigued. The building was rocking. Like, like, like they made that happen. They deserve that. And all of a sudden people said, okay,

I really like this. Okay. This, this is something real positive that I've liked, but you're right for a lot of other people are just kind of like, oh my God, come on, please,

please. Since 2004, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada,

longest drought in the NHL of all 32 teams. And, but you had to appreciate what they did up until these last two games. What are your thoughts on the Christmas freeze? Are we too gentle in this league, letting everyone have a nice little break? It's the Brian Burke thing.

Brian Burke thing. Do you like it? Santa Burke, huh? Santa Burke. They do say years ago that I think when Toronto, like Wendell Clark almost got traded to Montreal in a trade that the Chris, that the Christmas freeze changed things. And this, you know, this is quite a while ago. So, I mean, you know, that, that one, it obviously had an impact on if

there's truth to that, but I I'm okay with it. I think there's, you know, we've talked society wise, there's an appreciation about, you know, the, the old days when, when, when, when men weren't around to, for the birth of their course back when men weren't around for the birth of their, of course, back then, men weren't around for the birth of their kids anyway, you know, but they weren't supposed to be around or what have you. But I mean, just an understanding about that now that, you know, these are the big moments that are bigger than hockey. And same with, it's again, to your point, Justin, earlier about the grind of the season.

I always found that, you know, just around, you know, I don't know what it's like with your dad in that, Justin, but, and Kippyippy but I liked for two days and now they've added the 26 as a day that's a holiday like there just was this kind of calmness in the world like you just everyone was where they belong for 48 hours and you touch base with friends and family and if you're working in hockey you know you did it a pretty big clip like a couple hours here a couple hours there whatever but I really like, and I think it's important. I think it's just kind of recharging, you know, getting your priorities and values straight again and all that.

So I like it. I totally like it because, you know, having that kind of change over Christmas. If it's a trade that's going to be made, it could be done two days earlier or it could sustain the weight of the Christmas freeze. So let me get this straight. On the 25th and the 26th, you're not watching NFL or NBA. You're Christmas caroling. I'm going to be, yeah, but I can't find your house, Kippy.

I've got a group right now. You moved on us. Yeah. Joy to the world. Good King Kipriyos. I did, like, all words for you, too, Kippy. Beautiful. Will you make shortbread and throw us some money or something?

What do you think? Bring us some figgy pudding, Gord. That's what you got to ask. Besides the lulls for NHL players this time of year, analysts go through it. I don't think you brought your A game today. You're thinking Christmas shopping or walking the dog, visiting Pioneer Village.

Well, hey, following the Ken Dryden back to Toronto story, come on, I've got to be on it. I'm a Leaf insider. That's tying up my time. And by the way, I would like an NHL game on Christmas Day. Saying that, though, I think I would like one NHL game. You just told us it's a beautiful time of the year for everybody to be with their loved ones. What are you doing? Except for like 60 people.

I was just kidding. You're right. You caught me. I'm a fake. I'm a phony. I was doing like a very King family Christmas. Hold on. Come on. Before I let you go, in all seriousness, did the NHL miss a boat here, or is it good that they're not playing during the break? Oh, I think, well, of course, you have to negotiate it with the NHLPA.

So to answer your question, I think they missed the boat, but obviously the NHLPA would have to go along with it. Do you think players would say, okay, it would be to be that one game like once or twice in your career, I'd be okay with it? I think so. I think so, right? Yeah. Yeah.

You probably go to the – Yeah, that's a good question. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, is it a tradeoff? I'll give you Christmas. You give me a shorter season. What's in it for me?

No, they're tacking two games on, Kipper, and Christmas. Let's do it. Yeah, but they're getting rid of two preseason games. You've got to like that. That would be nice. Right? Yeah. Yeah, no, I think it's great.

I mean, who wants preseason? Watch Dennis Mulligan go light up Philadelphia. Exactly. No disrespect. And you look at the crestfallen look of the young people as they announce everyone scratching anyone good on the lineup, right? People like me play, and everyone's like, sorry, what? It's no good.

Well, Gordo, we wish you and your family all the best this holiday season. You're always a present to us. Oh, wow. Really nice. You know what? I appreciate it, and my New Year's resolution is Kippy, I'll pick my game up from this one today. See, meanwhile, I was just coordinating Justin's trying to get one of those emergency

passports to travel, so I've had that franticness before, but you know what? They're wonderful people to deal with over there. Well, they're actually big up, but I gotta tell you, because you because you know radio is at an interesting time and you guys are matching the specialization nowadays which people want like doing hockey but also the radio about personality and um allowing us into your lives and sharing your lives and it really working so i mean because you know we go you know way back when the fan was launched and those kind of shows

very much more difficult to do in 2022. And you and Sam and everybody there, like, honestly, it's a really neat recipe. So, Merry Christmas to you because you are family, like family to everybody who's listening. And I love listening to the show. And I love being on. Thanks, pal. Buddy, we love you back. Appreciate all your good vibes into the environment.

Really, into the world. Well, thanks very much. And all the best vibes into the environment. Really, into the world. Well, thanks very much. I know. All the best to everybody out there. Stelectricity at its finest on the Real Kipper and Bourne show here. Thanks for doing this, Gordo. See you, guys. Well, that was really good.

I didn't even really kind of pay him to do that. I know. And now I feel like we didn't get him anything verbal. And I told him he sucked today. And then it came all complimentary. I had like a point to make when it came out of that. I lost it. I think it's that the NHL should just stay very clear of getting berated by the NFL and NBA.

Oh, no, no. It's too late now. I just get killed. The chip sailed. The NBA, they can't compete with the NFL. I wonder how upset the NBA was it's just it's they'd be i wonder how upset the nb the nba was first to do it yeah and then nfl said we're jumping in there yeah how many games on christmas day sammy for nfl yeah three the nba is a giant it's t-rex but the nfl is

godzilla and just they squash everything and anything in their path right now so they have claimed it as their own, then way to go. It's their own. Yeah. Um, you know, one thing he mentioned in there was he hopes that the Leafs Winnipeg Stanley Cup final.

Did you happen to see Mark Mathot's tweets about Winnipeg today? Oh my God. Uh, he deleted them. No, he did. He did. Yeah.

I don't think it was very fair in general on the city of Winnipeg. But, you know, he's entitled to his opinion. And I think we all have stayed in the hotel that he was referring to that wasn't very comfortable. Yep. The Marlies would have stayed there when I was there, too. I see what he's saying. But, yeah, no, Winnipeg is a hockey town. It's a good place.

You know, it's a good place to be a player. I understand why compared to New York City, it's a less fun road trip. Or compared to Los Angeles, it's a less fun road trip. Might be a few more restaurants in New York City. And also, by the way, easy throwing stones from the glass house of Kanata, Ontario, where I've also stayed. And it's not, you know, it's fine. But it's also not New York or LA.

We can have an opinion. Yes. There's three NFL games and five NBA games on Christmas Day. A bunch of... Just so many dudes out there just so thankful they don't have to purely do chit-chat. The majority of the audience,

though, sick and tired of all the The majority of the audience, though, sick and tired of all the wrapping paper, the noise. They just get away. They got their dinner. They're done. I just want to watch the game now. Clark Gilley's staple is he would say something like Gorg just did at the table, a little toast, everyone eats,

and then he's just gone. Get away from me, all of you. Yeah, the rum and diet in a pint glass and you went grateful i paid for all this didn't like that present go screw yourself yeah you give him back the driver he took from you gift him a ping g10 oh sorry i thought you were a righty i'll use it. That's great. I'll take the driver then.

Okay, we're going to take a quick break. Gary Gally, former NHL or Hockey Night in Canada, broadcaster and a real good friend of the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. He is on deck. More after this. This is Real Kipper and Bourne on sportsnet 590 the van all right let's welcome in gary galley hockey night in canada former player guy that that's always been there for our show, which we really appreciate and will appreciate for the next few minutes here.

Gary, how are you, pal? I'm doing great. How are you guys? Good. Is all your shopping done yet? Oh, no, we haven't even started. Is that true? You know what I tell my family? It's Christmas every day. I don't know if they're going to buy it this year.

Yeah, good luck with it. I tried that a few years too and it didn't work. This time of year as a player, did you feel it? You're not even at the halfway point of the season, but there is a feel when it comes to the Christmas break. It's like, yeah, I can certainly welcome it. Were you that way? I think so. I think it's a,

it's a time of the year when you're, you're starting to feel like you're going to get a, even though it's a small break, it's a short break. It's a nice family break that, that, that you get and you look forward to it. You know, it's always nice when that game ends and you're back in your home city. If you're fortunate enough to play at home,

but, you know, that trip on the plane home where, you know, back in the day where you used to have a few pops and just relax and know that you had some time to put hockey on the back shelf and really pay more attention to your family and your kids and, you know, and the people that are so important in your life and what you're doing every day, right?

So, yeah, I always found it was an exciting time of year, and you kind of felt like even though it's not the halfway point, you almost feel like it's the halfway point, you know, turning into the new year. And as I can remember, because it has been a while, Gary, we played on Boxing Day. They scheduled us games. We were racing home sometimes, either Christmas night or sweating it out that our flight wasn't delayed or canceled on the 26th to get to a morning skate.

Oh, yeah. I remember the Boxing Day games and having to, you know, if you were fortunate enough to be in your city, it was great. Yes. You know, you just kind of just left the kids around the tree and you just went to the rink and played your game. But, you know, it was fun. It was funny because some days, some Christmases,

you would watch the kids open their gifts and you'd barely get a chance to assemble them, you know, and you'd be on a plane going somewhere to play Boxing Day. So, you know, families, they sacrifice a lot, you know, for you to play in the National Hockey League. To be a National Hockey League player, you do have to sacrifice time and family time. It's an entertainment industry, and you've got to get out there,

and you don't always like the schedule. But that's why, as I said earlier, it's so important to have an understanding family, a family, a hockey family, right, that knows what it takes. But, yeah, those boxing day games, those were, yeah, you were wondering always, like, how those were going to turn out. You weren't quite sure. Yeah, no, I have not fond memories of those either. Trying to get to small town minor

league cities is even more challenging than new york city kipper so you don't feel too bad for you um you know we've been reflecting over the past week on alex ovechkin and what he's done um you know getting to 800 goals what are your thoughts you've watched you know his entire career and the progression what are your thoughts on on what he's done so far and as he goes for the record again tonight trying to catch a second best so far gordy how i i'm i'm such a fan of alex's you know like you know i i just really have enjoyed um from start to finish i can remember the all-star game in montreal when he had that crazy hat and sunglasses on he's always been a guy that's been such a great ambassador for the National Hockey League.

You know, a guy that is bigger than life and plays a game on a big scale. He's a big guy, thick guy. He bangs hard. And he has a pea shooter, and he can put the puck in a spot without even looking where it's going. He just knows where it's going. And you know where he's shooting it from. That's the crazy part of this guy is that everybody knows where he's shooting it from and it still doesn't matter. You can't stop it um i think that i think that uh when when barry trotz got to washington i think he had a profound effect on on alex i think um alex finally kind of i think

understood um the relationship coach player relationship what was expected in certain situations and also how bar Barry felt he could better himself by playing maybe a little different style, coming deeper back into the zone to create more speed for himself, to be more of a challenge instead of always trying to sit up higher, try to gain zones. He wanted him to come back. I think he learned a lot from Barry Trotz,

even though he was such a veteran player at the time. And you can credit that to Scotty Bowman getting to Detroit and Hitchcock to Dallas and things like that where I think it really clicked in with him. He gets it. He just gets it. He understands it.

Boy, he's just a pleasure to watch. We sat and watched the other night when he was scoring the goals and I was thinking to myself, man, he's just a pleasure to watch. We sat and watched the other night when he was scoring the goals, and I was thinking to myself, man, oh, man, this guy doesn't look like he's getting any older. He's scoring the 100 goals between seven and eight faster than he scored some of the other ones. So how do you judge when he's going to break this record?

You just never know. As we watched on Hockey Night in Canada Saturday and the buildup towards scoring and all the goals in the past and gordy howe you play the game and the most vivid lasting memory for me saturday night was watching him run over timmons into the bench and he doesn't have to do that gary like if he never body checks anyone the rest of his career, no one would say a word, but he loves it. And he's willing to do that at age 37. And I know every once in a while the role that I played,

I could be guilted into like picking up my game a little bit, watching other players that aren't supposed to do that do that first. And he almost like wills his team to finish every check because if I'm doing it at my age and I've scored 800 goals, what are you doing? Exactly. And I think it's part of his fabric too. It's the way he gets into games.

It's the way he prepares. It's how, you know, I think it's a part of, you know, of just him being Alexander Ovechkin is that that's he doesn't know any other way to play and the uh and he does want to lead by example i think he knows that that's a big part of it as well um and and you know he just reminds me like he's such a like i remember peter forsberg when he first came on the scene you know and and and peter's body just couldn't take it like you know like alex's can but peter ran right over the top of you i mean he just did i mean he just didn't believe in all

was going around sometime it was just through and so you you totally respect that um but alexander ovechkin is is like a tank he's just a really thick strong powerful man that knows that he has to continue to play physical to give himself the space he requires and also make opponents aware on the ice that he will send you into tomorrow if he can. So when you're playing against the checkers and the best lines that are out there trying to shut you down, make sure you got your head up because maybe he'll shut you down. No kidding. Gary, given your time watching all these Canadian teams make sure you got your head up because maybe he'll you know it'll shut you down no kidding uh gary

given your time watching all these canadian teams over the course of a season i want to get your take on what's going on in alberta the calgary flames kind of i don't know scuffling is a word i've been using lately the oilers lose to anaheim the other night both seem like pretty good teams with cup aspirations what are your thoughts on the two teams at Alberta? Definitely, I would say at the start of the season that this was two teams that I felt like would be in a better position than they are right now. I guess that's the nicest way to put it. I think I expected both these teams

to be in the top three slots of the Pacific Division. And to have L.A. and Seattle above the both of them, I think is like a bit of a, wow. I mean, I'm not saying that's where it's going to stay. It's not like, you know, LA at 39 points with more games played than the other three teams and Calgary at 34, it's a small gap and things certainly have time to change. But you know, I just, I just don't like the consistent play of either team. I think it's, it's inconsistent.

There are areas in the ice that you can't continue to make mistakes in that both teams are doing. And it seems to me that I don't know if you just click a switch and all of a sudden you just clean up all these areas. And if you go into the playoffs with areas like that, you know, you're not going to last very long. So, yeah, it's time that these teams start to put together. It's like if you watch what Toronto's doing, and I know it's like,

you know, just to go back and talk about Toronto, but Toronto has figured out that regardless of the offensive firepower or regardless of how good a team they can be, they have to have some of the key things that a team needs to win, and that is that everyone's on the same page as far as your system and how you're trying to play first and foremost, and then everything comes off of that, stems off of that. And for Toronto, they've got everyone playing on that same page. Even their star players are playing that way. And I

think that that's the way you have to play to win. I think they've proved it even through tons of injuries they're proving it. But for Calgary and Edmonton, I find that they just continue to lapse in certain areas. Calgary is the biggest. Like Edmonton, I know because their goaltending has been a bit

helter-skelter. But then inon, I know because their goaltending has been a bit, you know, a bit helter-skelter. But then in Calgary where you thought the goaltending was going to be nails. I mean, it's kind of had its ups and downs. So anytime you have inconsistent goaltending, you're going to have this happen as well. So I would say on both accounts, if their goaltending could kind of get going a little bit and get back close to where they are,

maybe they're not going to be where they were last year as far as Calgary is concerned. But if he can get back to a little more consistency in his game, I think it'll make a big difference for Calgary. Well, in the Leafs, at least we've seen a stretch where I think they've learned how to be patient defensively and then pick your spots to let that world-class offensive talent rise. Edmonton has that with Dreisaitl and McDavid, of course. And then you get to Calgary and they're good players. Kadri's a

very good player. Lindholm's a very good player. But as far as that real top-end elite world-class offense, they seem to be lacking a little bit. And is it shown now? Because outside of... No, there's nobody outside. No one's even scheduled to be a point-of-game player right now for them. Was Huberto that guy? Was he supposed to be that guy, that world-class game-breaker? I think they expected that he would come in.

I mean, this is like a high-end playmaker. He's a great passer. He can score, but I think players look at him as someone who can really, you know, really have great vision of the ice, put the puck in the right spots for players to have success. And then we've seen that a little bit kind of spits and spurts of it, and you think, okay, boy, he's really coming. He's going to come on now.

And then, you know, but again, when you're playing, when you're playing for someone like Darrell, you've got to kind of learn how to play for someone like that. And I think for the new guys coming in, I think they're learning how to play under the kind of critiquing and scrutiny and things like that of the game. Now that a lot of guys in the past that I played from the guys in LA that won cups with him there. I mean, they, they figured out how to,

how to understand him and what his expectations were of you as a player and how you want you to play. But sometimes that can, that can cause a bit of disruption too. So you got a lot of changes there. When you make a lot of changes to your top end players, it takes a bit of time and maybe we're just seeing that. We're seeing a bit of time that it's taken some players to gel with one another, where this team had it in spades in their top six, and everybody just came out

and the way they went. Now they're having to make some adjustments and find some chemistry and figure it out. And like I said, in goaltending, it hasn't been as good. And when you're giving up goals that you're not normally giving up, it takes the oxygen out of your room. It takes the air out of the balloon. You kind of, oh, here we go again.

And, oh, another goal. We've got to get that one back. And whereas last year, it was like, man, it was like a brick wall, and you never had to worry about it. So goaltending always seems to be the stem of a team's confidence. If a goalie's really confident and playing well, the team plays just really good in front of them. We saw that in Ottawa when Talbot kind of came in

and gave them two or three real solid games in a row that they started to win some games and feel like they had a bit of swagger again. For Calgary, I just haven't seen the swagger. And maybe that swagger was Kachuk. I don't know. But I just haven't seen the swagger of a team that I used to watch

in the last few years when you watch them it seems to me they're still haven't really found the identity of that yet well while we're examining canadian teams i want to move it to the other team that really has me confused and you watch all these teams the vancouver canucks you know really if you look at it in the standings they're only five points out of a playoff spot is there a way to salvage this season for the canucks or do they just seem like a team caught Really, if you look at it in the standings, they're only five points out of a playoff spot. Is there a way to salvage this season for the Canucks, or do they just seem like a team caught in the middle? Where they started and where they are now,

I think you'd have to say, wow, they have chipped away. I mean, they were looking like this could just be diabolically just an awful, awful year. They've kind of caught themselves a little bit. But certainly, you know, when your GM is criticizing your coach's system and your captain is kind of a bit of a lame duck where he's having a career year, yet they can't seem to find a way to get him signed. And when they thought they were going to get him signed, you know, they didn't sign him.

So maybe there's some hard feelings there. So I don't know it's really hard to be a good team when there's a lot of other uh other things going on that are out of your control as a player but they're not out of your thoughts and they're not out of your locker room and uh you know so i do think this team is in tough i i don't see this team you know making the playoffs unfortunately i thought they were going to be uh right up there in the mix, but, you know, but there's still lots of time and yeah, things can happen and maybe this team will come together, but I don't know.

I think there's a lot of things that got to be cleaned up and maybe it's just, you know, Jim Rutherford finally putting his fingerprints on this and making some of the changes that he wants to make and going in a different direction with some players. Cause obviously he's not happy with some of the changes that he wants to make and going in a different direction with some players because obviously he's not happy with some of the players that are there. I mean, every week or every few days, it seems to be there's a different player there that's having, you know, was Besser, Horvat, Besser. It just keeps going on and on.

There's too many distractions as far as I'm concerned, and it's hard to play when you have a lot of distractions. Well, it's hard not to talk Canadian teams and not mention the Winnipeg Jets. They lost to Seattle last night 3-2, but did you see this at all to start the season with so much turmoil there with Blake Wheeler's captaincy and who wants to stay and who wants to go?

Crazy, isn't it? Like you look at Vancouver that, you know, that just kind of fell apart and never really seemed to find it and had a lot of stuff going on. And then who would have more stuff going on than Winnipeg? And the fact that they lost to Seattle, a lot of teams are losing to Seattle this year. It's like Seattle's having,

Seattle was a team I thought was going to be like detroit and buffalo and and that i thought you know have a good start and really get going but you can't sustain it right you're not going to be able to sustain that you'll eventually you'll eventually fall back into that you're you're getting better it's coming but it's not going to happen yet you know montreal canadians who who started out and looked like they wow they're a lot better with those four young defensemen on the blue line, and they followed right back. Now they're last place in the Atlantic.

So eventually it all catches up to you. And I kept thinking that would happen to Seattle, but it hasn't. So full marks for Seattle and beating Winnipeg, which I think has been one of the biggest surprises of this year. Paul Maurice decides that he no longer can coach the team for whatever reason it was, and he felt like his voice wasn't getting through anymore. And they bring in Lowry for a short period of time,

but then being able to grab a guy like Rick Bonas that wants to be in Winnipeg, had some of his professional career there, had been behind the bench there before with the Jets in the past, the Goals. And you know what? He wants to make a difference there. And I think the first thing that they discussed there was the culture of the locker room. The culture of the locker room, what was going on.

They seemed to have some factions that were split. There was two or three little cliques that were going on. And I think what Rick Bolas did was he came in and, and he cleaned all that up. He cleaned it all up. He brought everybody back to zero and said, okay, we're going to, we're going to move forward. I give full marks to him for doing it because you got to break some eggs to do that.

And you also have to have the confidence that these players are going to respond because, you know, a guy like Wheeler, you, you know, you take the captaincy off him. He could have easily just going to respond because you know a guy like wheeler you you know you take the captaincy off him he could have easily just you know you know started pouting and that's kind of you know how that can kind of leak through a locker room but he doesn't he plays hard uh you know and and that sends a message to other guys so maybe where there was a bad situation last year it's kind of massaged into a good situation. Other guys feel like the voice of the locker room is a little more in the right place. And guys that didn't have a voice now have a voice. And, boy, has it been a fun team to watch.

I mean, guys are on point streaks. Guys are playing hard. Guys just feel like maybe there's just a lot more energy to grab and the thing it's just not all about a couple of players and how these players are operating it's it's more about a team there now and i think it's showing for sure yeah you know so gary we're almost on our cross canada tour with you we just had one more team on the list here we're we're making you work like a mule tonight this is also like yeah how much do you know about every team in Canada? No, we're not going to ask about Montreal.

I'm going to be exhausted. The last one. Last one is on the Senators. You want to grab a towel and a water bottle? Some oxygen. The Sens are 6-3-1 in their last 10, and I can convince myself this team's in the hunt. No, you cannot.

You buried them. Oh, I did bury them. But you could talk yourself into it if you squint. Can you talk Ottawa back into this race? I don't. I think that the biggest thing they wanted to be was playing meaningful games in March and April. That's really where they wanted to be.

I think they knew making the playoffs, they were hoping it could happen, but I think they do realize these young players have been through a lot. It are progressing. They are getting better in a lot of areas, but the injuries have still bitten them a little bit. Some goaltending that kind of faltered really hurt them as well, but give them full credit. I've done Senator games, and they're always exciting games, regardless of win or lose.

They do play hard. They do come at you. Do they have some defending issues? Do they have some execution issues? Yes. Their power play right now is lightning hot. I mean, they just can't seem to miss on it. They are a team that feels like they can score every time they're on it.

Their penalty killing is improving. I think their overall team play as far as defending and not allowing quality scoring chances. I mean, I did the Montreal game the other day, and in the first five minutes, Montreal had like four quality grade A scoring chances. Cam Talbot shut the door on all of them. And then eventually the Senators got on their feet and they got going. They got up 3-0 and they gave up a couple late.

They made it interesting. But I remember Brady Kachuk coming over to the bench in one of the TV times out. And he yelled at the bench, he goes, relax, we're fine. And he said it twice. He goes, relax, we're fine. And this is a captain, you know, I think he's learned a lot. He's got Claude Giroux there to help him. And I think he's doing a real nice job of leading by example

and not just being that guy who's yelling, screaming. But when he says something, the players, they kind of, they listen. And that was, you know, I think it was a good time for him to let the players on the bench know that they've got two goals, but we're fine here. Let's don't turn this into a mess. We've played well this game. So they're making a lot of steps,

but I don't know if they're going to make enough steps to get into making those games what they were hoping to be in March and April. I think this is a three-team race in the Atlantic. I don't see, I think there could only be three teams in the Atlantic that get through. I think there may be a real strong metropolitan division that may bump out that fourth team in the Atlantic.

And there's a lot of real estate left to go there. But I do see Ottawa improving. I do see them possibly passing Buffalo and Detroit. I don't know if they'll get close enough to be in that playoff picture race in the last six, seven, eight games of the season, but I do believe they are a better team. I do believe

that this team is growing. They've done this without Norris, who I think has really been a big loss. They've lost Zub for a lot of the season, too. But every team has injuries. Everybody can moan about it. But I think DJ's done a good job. This thing looked like it could fall apart there.

And he got it back on the rails here. And they're just one game under.500. So I can see them being a.500 team. But I don't know if they're going to get in that spot they were hoping to be in. Well, according to your math in the Atlantic Division, that leaves the Florida Panthers missing the playoffs. Who saw that after the big trade with Calgary?

And in Toronto, Tampa, playing in the first round. Oh, no, we've got that one inked in already, Gary. Really appreciate your time, buddy. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. Best to you and your family. Same you guys enjoy your families take care gary galley boys florida i know that like i'm with him three in the atlantic five in the metro to tie in uh your playoff picture in the east you know i feel i you know i have felt this way about the panthers that they're not as good my expectations were fairly low this year

yada yada but i gotta tell you the fancy stats have them pretty good and i know that's an eye roll from a lot of people but these things tend to flesh themselves out here you go they just can't get a save yeah well this is it so this is the farther this way, the higher, the more expected goals they have. They're among the best teams in the league offensively. The better they are this way, the better they are defensively. So they're in the right quadrant of the league handily. Can they get some stops?

Can one of those goalies find it for them and help them out a little bit? Meanwhile, Chicago and Anaheim down here. Is that not Spencer Knight? I mean, we haven't completely written off Bobrovsky through this whole 10-plus million experiment. I guess. Or do you think he's still the guy that's going to lead them to the playoffs? No, I don't.

I mean, I'm not a believer in Florida. I just, I see that there are good numbers, but no, it's, I don't know. I've never been a big Bobrovsky guy. And since he's been in Florida, he's had some good stretches of play and all that. But I don't know if he's that much better than your average goalie in the league. Did you catch the exchange between Nico Hischer and barkov off the face off with the the cross check to his knee no did you know sammy i didn't see that yeah yeah dirty a little malicious he's here to bark off yes off the face yeah yeah and i like they yeah you could probably

pull it up real quick here but the the sense was that Florida didn't like it and kind of chased them the rest of the game, which I kind of like. That's the part. Yeah, well, I like that. That's the response. That should be a natural response that you go after, even if it's not true, even if it's not true even if it's perception oh i don't think that's

that that's on purpose do you well it caused him oh it's pretty bad never mind it caused him uh i had he didn't return did he sammy i don't think he came back no yeah so since something like that can be very forceful in the right spot and in your knee and the fact that he didn't return didn't help his sure at all but is that a suspendable act absolutely not no you're you're in the midst of a play enough that you get to claim it was accidental accidentally on purpose is the hockey player's best friend whoopsie i mean how could i i think he we're fighting for a hockey puck it was a play to push him off the puck yeah it'll make him lose his balance you're right and if you hurt him in the

process like give him a sting but it would not like it could hit if you hit him in the right spot force your knee to move in a position that is unnatural for sure i think there's a lot of that in hockey though where you're like i know i can give this guy a little extra juice here and it might hurt him but you don't mean injure them you know this might hurt his upper knee this might sting if i run this guy in this position and sometimes you know you play recklessly or dangerously like that so i'm concerned barkoff is day to day according to to Maurice, after that injury. So far in this section, I've shown Kipper a chart and talked about it

and talked about a highlight that no one can see. So really nailing this radio medium here. There you go. Charts. Okay, news and notes. Robin Doolittle from the Globe and Mail had an eye-opener for everybody in hockey in terms of her reporting that court filings revealed new details about the alleged Hockey Canada group sexual assault.

Yeah. And there's a real sense that there might be enough police investigators who believe that there's reasonable grounds for possibly charging these guys. Like we're talking jail? We're talking sexual assault. Yeah.

I mean, whether they're tried and convicted is another story, but it does give us a sense that this thing might be coming to a head here in terms of investigations. We knew that the NHL had basically concluded what they needed to do, and my sense is that we're going to hear from the London police one way or another here probably sooner than later based on this report.

And so would the London police, would they get specific then? Would we get player names or, you know, the... I did read Robin's story, and it's really well reported, and the whole thing's pretty disgusting. I mean, that's an understatement. It's bad. I mean, it's really bad reported and the whole thing's pretty disgusting i mean that's an understatement it's bad i mean it's really bad and so certainly well there's something does this they don't deserve this to just go away so there's a story like this surface without the sense that they will come to the conclusion that there's enough evidence to support a charge.

Probably not. Right. Probably not. So I imagine we will see something to that effect, really concerning details in Robin's story, additional details about like, you know, older people. It does give us the fullest picture to date of what allegedly had happened on the day of June 19th, 2018. Yeah. Of what allegedly had happened on the day of June 19th, 2018.

Yeah. Like we have not, we've not heard of this type of. There's a commentary about like an older, well-dressed man who's paid to be at these type of things, you know, feeding a shot to the girl. Like it's, the details are pretty bad. So I guess all I can say is good. Let's find out what's going on here and keep our eyes peeled to it. We'll see what effect it has on the hockey side, the NHL side, obviously. It's just a big development story here.

Yes. It feels like a time bomb about to go off with these, whatever, whoever it ends up being. Yeah. So we'll just have to keep an eye on this and see where it goes. Absolutely. Yes, sir. All right.

Stu Skinner, new contract with the Oilers. Three years, 2.6. have to keep an eye on this and uh see where it goes absolutely sir all right uh stew skinner new contract with the oilers three years 2.6 per now 7.6 in the crease now now they see someone that they like and they make a decision is there not a bit of a mirror to maybe what and i'm not saying whether or not it was the right decision in hindsight we can all sit there and say that the leafs made the right decision in not signing jack campbell but could the leafs have taken care of Jack a lot earlier with a contract similar to this and not put him necessarily in the position

of being your number one guy, but... Did they not try for this exact thing? I had heard it never got... It was never to the point where they even gave him a contract to think about. But I look at Skinner's numbers and I go, okay, there's some nights he let some tough goals in too. But they like him. They see enough upside.

They didn't wait to see him carry the team and turn his demands for maybe a $2.53 million contract to a $5 million. They took care of it. Yeah. Do you like it? I do. You've talked about this several times on this show about how managers, because of the salary cap, have to hedge or have to get ahead.

They make bets, right? They make bets on guys becoming what they think they could become. You know what's interesting is we always look at the guys. There aren't a ton of examples of this working out poorly. You look at Jack Hughes. His contract now looks very good.age thompson's looks very good the ones that stand out to me are in st louis because they said all right jordan kairu and robert thomas are two guys who are going to be our new core they got matching i think eight by eight point one two five deals

yes and both guys are currently below a point per game it is going to be interesting to see so this is a good bet here to me and a pretty low risk bet but it's going to be interesting to see if teams who all make these bets if someone ends up saddled with the deal worth five million bucks and you're paying a guy eight for eight years or something well they now we know that they're locked in for three years at 7.6 million for their goaltenders. I think that's good. Jack's not going anywhere.

That's that's, I mean, so it's not a crease. It's not crazy. No, it's nice to have your starting goalie making under 3 million bucks per any day of the week for sure. So then it's just a matter of if he becomes a one and not a one,

a B type of tandem-y guy. You're still in for seven. But do you want to say, okay, maybe someone will take Jack down the road and we can pay back up $2 million instead of five? Jack isn't going anywhere. Just move on. And if the worst case scenario is that Jack has an off year, he's got an off year.

Try it again next year. And you try again next year. At 7-6. You are not making any decisions one way or another this year on Jack. And Jack can never regain his game this year. And you still have to be married to the fact that he's coming back to training camp to fight for a number one job. Kind of reminds me of, and i don't mean this disrespectfully but like lucic where i think

there was a point where edmonton or some teams were like this guy's got all this money and we just can't use them but the contract is such that you just got to keep trying you find someone who goes to calgary finds it again like you just keep trying to find it in calgary and now you can't find it anymore that's right so you know some of these guys that you pay a lot of money, and that's what you end up doing at the end of their contracts. You just hope they find it again, and otherwise you just got to roll them out there. When he's gone, he's gone, right? That's right.

I'm just thinking of the other gamble contracts. Think of Clayton Keller too, right? Yeah. That was signed in September 4, 2019. That's an eight-year, $57 million contract. Wow. He got million contract. Wow. He got that contract. He makes seven one until 2028.

And he's earning the hell out of that. Yeah. That's value. Yeah. Skinner. The Skinner deal is one that did not pan out. Good point by Brandon. But it wasn't like one of those early ones.

That was a free agent overspend, right? That's like there's lots of those ones. And actually, he's had some good seasons since the down but he's not a nine million dollar player confirmed what a great agent my god what a contract yeah but then it all balances out because a tage thompson if he's scoring 40 now a year and he well on his way to 50 plus is arguably a $10 million player. He is, he's turned himself into what everybody wanted Jack Eichel to be. Yeah.

You think so? Yes. Yeah. They wanted Eichel to be that sort of rangy control the game force. And the other contract that Chayka signed was the Jacob Chikrin one. That's now one of the more valuable contracts and assets in the league, right? If you think about it, everybody's sniffing around that contract, sniffing around him because of how much value you have.

How many more years left on it? Three? Yeah. Three. If you trade for him today, the Leafs would get four playoff pushes at $4.6 million, if I'm not mistaken. Out of Chicken? Yeah.

Yeah. Because he's got three more years after this year. The Leafs, of course, would get that. They signed a six-year, $27 million contract in 2018. You're the 29th scoring defense in the league right now. I think Chicken would look pretty good. Chicken is this. They'd get three.

So this in two more years. This in two more. Thanks for correcting me. It's a big difference. Yeah, it is a big difference. This is a... Three more playoff runs at 4.6 million. Yeah, he's only played 12 games this year.

Sorry, 13 games this year, but he does have 12 points in those 13 games he's played. That's probably... Leafs totals combined. And he's a plus seven on the Coyotes. That's pretty. That's memorable. Is he really?

Yes, he is. Okay. How about the two guys that are rumored coming here? Are guys like O'Reilly and Kane are minus 22 and minus 19? No one cares about plus minus. Yeah. Well, there's a point where we care. What's Kane?

He's a minus 20. Minus 19 or something. Oof. Yeah. The highs and the lows of plus minus matter. You care. If a guy's like minus one or plus one and I feel like it doesn't really matter, but that high, it does matter.

Don't want to be the worst in the league. Yeah, when Nick Lindstrom was plus 180 every year, it's like, oh, plus, yeah, that matters. Yeah, go look through the Hall of Fame guys and see their plus minus. Are you writing off St. Louis this year? No. No? I'm not.

Are you? I like St. Louis. They got hockey players on their team guys they got a good decor they had pretty like a goaltender who can do it they're minus 19 differential but yeah no i mean i they've won three in a row again here's the thing the west stinks does stink i would seven or eight of the best 10 teams in the league are in the east for sure it's a gauntlet the east like to get through the east like think about who the least potentially would have to beat to get to the final tampa bay boston new jersey carolina rangers all the best like the rangers are automatic they're seven in a row red hot look like the rangers again seven in a row, red hot. Look like the Rangers again. Do you remember the fight that Trouba had, I think,

against Brady Kachuk where he threw his bucket? Yeah, threw the bucket. They haven't lost since then. They haven't lost since then. And then last night, he scores against Chicago, which started this whole kind of mess. Maybe it was the Chicago game that he threw his helmet. Yeah.

I thought it was the... Maybe it was Ottawa. I can't remember. Red team. And he scores last night. And he looks to end at the CEO and says, you want to keep the puck? Because he questioned him not scoring.

Said, yeah, you're the worst $9 million player in the league. Oh, call me that. Yeah. Please chirp me about that. I am very rich. That was pretty good, though. Do you want to keep the puck? Yeah.

That was pretty good. That's great. And he's not paid to score at the end of the day. It wouldn't hurt. No, it's a nice little whipped cream and a cherry on top. But he's a physical guy who takes care of the front of the net and plays, and he's a minute muncher. Athanasius' estimated career earnings are $13 million.

Nice. If I were Truba, I'd be like, I'd make that a year, dude. Ovi watch tonight against the crappy Red red wings what do you think red wings by the way falling apart at the seams they're no good and i i said he was gonna get it against the leafs so i'm not making any predictions but he might get it again he scores a lot so he might yeah he'll uh he'll get one for sure tonight okay our thanks our thanks to Gary Gally and Gord Stelictricity for coming on to the show today.

We're back tomorrow. Enjoy the OV Watch tonight. JB, thank you. Thank you, buddy. Derek Brandeo, Jennifer Rolnick, and Sammy. I'm Nick Kiprios. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. We're back tomorrow. Real Kipper in Bourne. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. We're back tomorrow. Real Kipper and Born.