Real Kyper & Bourne - Mark Messier's Recipe For Winning The Stanley Cup

Episode Date: December 15, 2022

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee highlight Kyper's recent piece on how William Nylander is performing his way into a big payday, whether the Maple Leafs should use him as a trade asset or re-sign him onto a long-term deal. Sportsnet.ca's Luke Fox stops by (20:47) to discuss how important their upcoming game against the New York Rangers might be for Matt Murray and if Conor Timmins will stick on the blueline when Jordie Benn returns. Hockey Hall of Famer and NHL on TNT analyst Mark Messier (48:20) weighs in on Alex Ovechkin reaching 800 career goals, how the offence in the game of hockey has changed over the years, why it'll take a group effort for Toronto to get over their playoff hurdle, and the recipe for winning the Stanley Cup hasn't changed. Then, Rogers Monday Night Hockey's David Amber (1:06:23) jumps on shares when he first brought up 'Ovi Watch', when he thinks Alex will reach Wayne Gretzky's record, and the state of the Canadian NHL teams. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Have we got a show for you. Jam-packed the next two hours as the Toronto Maple Leafs head to the world's most famous arena to take on the New York Rangers. In about 20 minutes, we'll catch up to Sportsnet.ca. Luke Fox down at the Garden. We'll also check in in about 45 minutes. Hockey Hall of Famer, six-time Stanley Cup champion, Mark Messier. No big deal. No big deal there.

Mark called Ovechkin's 800th goal in Chicago. We'll get his thoughts on being in the booth for something like that. And then in the second hour, the guy that started it all, David Amber with, will he or won't he break Wayne Gretzky's record? So a terrific couple of hours.

We're glad you're on board wherever you're watching and listening. Our YouTube channel, Sportsnet 590, The Fan, iTunes, Spotify. Give us a rating and a review, a thumbs up. We love all that stuff. Yes, yes. Just prior to coming into the studio here, it's always nice. We see Tim McAuliffe every once in a while.

His terrific show, Tim and Friends. Their desk's right beside us. And he says, Kipper, you're trending. And I'm like, am I trending? Really? I said, oh, it must be for my new Next Rewards app where you can play tonight's football game, Seattle and the 49ers. If you use my code Kipper19, you get 250 points. And that's awesome that I'm trending because of the Next Rewards app.

Unbelievable. I mean, the success you're having with that app, the Next Rewards app that Nick Kiprios owns has been tremendous. You should have seen me build this thing. I know. You're writing code. I saw the ones and zeros every day in your desk. White coat, pocket calculator.

The golden retriever meme that I have no idea what I'm doing in a scientist coat. I wore glasses the whole time I built this thing. Bunsen burners on your desk. Yes. Yes. Sammy? Yes, Kipper? Is that why I'm trending?

No, I think it's because of Pontus Holmberg's next contract. So it's funny because yesterday we talked about that. Yeah. And you brought up like the offer sheet or whatever. And looking back on it, I guess it was a little bit more ridiculous. No, it wasn't. In the moment that it was not. Like I didn't even think of it as that.

We're just talking about the Leafs. It's just shooting the shit. That's what it is. That's exactly what it is. You know social media. They'll take everything literally. He's a 23-year-old six-round pick but 15 games.

How many GMs in the league know who Pontus Holmberg is? Listen, it's not... The conversation was built off of Pontus because I like him. I know. The whole thing was really... I only came from it from a different way now to look moving forward. Yes. And everybody wants to go see, how many offer sheets have we seen in the last 10 years?

And it's like, it's not about the last 10 years. It's about what maybe the next 10 years will look like and how you can build. You know, John Shannon's got this book out, which I got to get, and it's called Evolve or Die, I think is the title of it. Yeah. And that's the way I look at offer sheets moving forward. Yeah.

That it hasn't been an option in the past. And if you want to get better, and I just put it up against a Tage Thompson kind of attitude where you have to hedge. And it's a terrific tool moving forward for any team to start hedging on players like Pontus to maybe go a little bit above a 1.4 million, which is safe, to two to one. Would that be enough to get players like pontus that's where the the conversation stemmed from but then the real reason hold on i just want to say no no no i just

want to weigh in on that and say you know i thought about this on my drive home yesterday and if you told me next five summers will there be over or under four and a half offer sheets i'm taking over like i know it hasn't happened but this is my biggest gripe with how we talk about sports this has happened so this is what's going to happen it's not the case especially now everyone's jammed against the cap everyone is learning to maximize every possible efficiency and i think we're going to see it utilized more even if it is just one a year. If you are an analytical department and you're heavy on it

and it is a tool for you, how do you ignore it unless you're just scared because you're going to upset another team. And I think those days are over because what can they do? I think those days should be over. But do I think that maybe there's a couple of nervous general managers of upsetting the

apple cart? Yeah, I do think they still exist. Yeah. Well, I remember the whole thing, like Brian Burke taking it personally and talking about offer sheets and how- Kevin Lowe. Yeah. Edmonton Oilers.

Penner, right? Yeah. There's an offer sheet for Penner and he ends up in a barn fighting like Placid or whatever the- I think the NBA, it happens all the time. I've just never understood why. It's just part of the business. It's a league where you are competing.

It is a cultural thing, though, that it has not been accepted in hockey, but it is coming. The same way that player movement in the NBA is coming to the NHL. So we got to talk about your article, Kipper. But the real reason you're trending. Toronto Star, it's Thursday. I've been writing an article all season long for them. It stemmed off of William Nylander, the next level he's gone,

the acknowledgement of an elite player now. So I wrote a nice article on him. What's the big deal, Sammy? Yeah, just about how great he is and how the Leafs can't afford him right Kip Sammy and I were laughing the team has lost zero games in a month and we're getting rid of Willie Nylander

can you guys just put your super fan pom-poms away for a second what is the fact whether they've won 20 games in a row or lost 20 games in a row have to do with me writing about willie nylander um and going to the next level and how it could get expensive well i just listen it's funny though it's just funny it's like it's just funny what are you you know pesci and good fellas am i a clown to you? Do I amuse you, Sammy?

What is funny? Listen, I don't think anybody in Leafs Nation is thinking about William Nylander's next contract. No? And the people don't want to think about it. So then it's been brought... Oh, he's made them look at the cruel reality of the next... You did it.

Somebody else did it too. Like, it's a thing. It's just, it's the perception of Leafs media where when things are going well and there's maybe not things to pick on, we do it every day. We talked about Pontus Holmberg getting a call. I'm part of it. What you're saying, did you read the article?

I didn't read the article. I did, and I disagree with it. Well, then it's hard for you to come on if you didn't read my article. Well, I was rushing around today. I forgot my laptop, Kipper. Did you read it? Yeah, and I disagree with it. Okay.

That's fair to me. Okay. Okay okay that that that's fair to me okay okay 100 that's fair to me um again it's an opinion piece yeah i wrote i wrote an article based on the level of play that he has come to by the way it's a good article i do want to say that okay you disagree with it but it's a good article yeah okay that kind of, I'm confused a little bit. That's the idea. The idea of writing something that makes people think. And you're right. It made me think about things.

I think that's a compliment somewhere in there. I promise it is. Okay. Yes. So let's go down the path. Yes. Because I had spoken about the challenges again, off of bringing your core guys back for how long

and whether or not they can still do it, moving on a cap that's been challenged the last few years. Yeah. And how it pertains to all of this in the article was that this may be the best year to win the Stanley Cup. And again, to put things in perspective is that I'm not sure even if Willie can sustain being here next year based on the challenges of the cap. So Sammy, apparently him and Leaf Nation didn't like it because it didn't match up to how great they are this year.

So maybe I should have just wrote the article in June. Maybe I should have saved it for june sammy yeah listen i'm looking at their cat friendly page here and the toronto maple leafs like they have no one under contract when this contract expires let me tell you something you be quiet for a second they're gonna prioritize this item hey what jb's going first all right and you can read the article while he talks. Come on. My only disagreement was just with the math, with the idea that they wouldn't be able to maintain.

You mentioned the core of the five guys. Yes. But Matthews gets a bump too. You hypothesize 14, 15 million. Nylander, if I was picking up the implication, you think he'd be a $10 million guy? I would think it would be very challenging for the Leafs to get him under $10 million.

Right. So you're looking at bumps of three for Matthews, three for Nylander. What I ended up doing was putting the whole package together two years from now. Yes. When the cap should be up at mil, right? I had it at $55, $56 million for the big five, including Yarncroft. And then the sheet is completely clean. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a good spot to be in having a clean sheet and star players. It sucks. No, it's perfect. It's perfect if you had a lot more money than what is left on the table we do not agree jb yes so so how many how many guys do you have that on that clean sheet that you have to fill because i had it at lots 16 it's a lot of names but this is exactly how the team has been constructed and has had success. Okay. No, it's not.

Okay. Well, not had success. Okay. We're going to quibble over the semantic of success. The projection is two years from now, $88 million. Yeah. Okay. Yep.

Okay. So that's 16 guys for roughly $30, 31 million dollars. Tell me now how you're going to get the rest of the team in that frame needing a starting goalie, a number two defenseman, a number three defenseman, and a number four defenseman. Yeah.

No, and this is what Kyle Dubas has constructed for himself. Yeah. But it's a comparable challenge to the one that they have had over the past five years with those guys eating up. It's almost the same percentage of the cap you're talking about, the core guys eating. But you have Muzzin at almost 5.6 million, and you have Brody at 5. Those are

3 and 4. You're not filling your next round with $11 million for two defensemen. You're not. It's going to cost more for those spots. 100%. You need to go fill them up with another $5 million

players. You can't do that looking at $30 million for 16 guys. And that doesn't even include your starting goalie. To me, there's too many unknowns here. I understand. I understand that there are positions. But think of how many guys cost minimum on a team for the Leafs. Looking at the Leafs right now, they have seven guys making under a million dollars.

And good luck finding five Giordano's who will play 20 minutes and earn $750,000. I think it's overly cynical to think they can't find someone else who can play good. It's going to be challenging. Well, that's a big challenge. It's a big challenge. It is a big challenge. But it's been challenging this whole time. Outside of Morgan Riley, you can't fill up two and three with $11 million.

You can't. Brody want to with $11 million. You can't. Brody want to play for another $5 million contract? Well, now you're in the ballpark of go ahead and convince those guys. And I said it in the article. Nylander can stay if he just likes it here and wants to take less than market value. That's always out there for these guys. And good onyle for being able to convince giordano that he can that that you're gonna play you know you may play 20 minutes a

night but you got to make 750 grand i wonder if neil andrew has played himself into a point there kipper where where you're like okay it's time to talk to someone else about about moving tavarez or tavarez is up by that point right no he's got another year okay so one year uh 24 25 he's got one year left yeah well you know now you're talking you want to chit chat see now you're talking see i love this about this guy because this guy's a thinker and you may have to push tavaris out by then i mean one of two things to keep willie to keep willie and you would obviously do that if you could i think would you not have given the stages of their careers they're at you haven't even factored in that two years from now july 1st you have to go to mitch marner

and sign him and he's gonna get 45 million a year right no he'll get he'll get he'll ask for what matthews earns yeah at 15 yeah that's gonna be a couple of big tickets where i'm going with three years away and it's also the same issue that it doesn't matter well listen listen they don't think like you sammy they don't and they don't think like social media these conversations are going on right now with kyle dubas brendan shanahan print them all of them they have these conversations now sure they do okay and my job is to bring you the conversations that the guys have in the room that they have in the boardroom or agents have on their 10th floor office it's not super fan sammy going hey come on don't bring that up they've won like 20 in a row

i'm just saying and what makes you so sure will he's getting 10 million bucks jt miller what did he get how many points he had last year 100 points he got 8 million bucks like i'm not so sure he's gonna get 10 million either you know the comparables you use you try to convince him it's he's philip forsberg is eight and a half on a discount who was too scared to go to the market well i mean that's fine contract they could give him that a hundred percent and he can say yes i'm just not convinced that he's gonna get 10 million bucks like but willie has shown a desire to hold out for what he's worth uh i played with his dad okay his dad never left a nickel on the table right and i well this guy also held out until literally the last minute.

Yeah. So, listen. Listen. It's going to be an interesting one, no doubt, in two years. He is heading for a 40-goal season, a 90-point season, and there will be a strong desire from other teams to gladly sign Willie Nylander. How much he wants to remain a Toronto Maple Leaf is on him.

God bless him if he wants to be a Leaf the rest of his career. But by the time he gets to July, this July 1st, and Pasternak is already gone and probably in the vicinity of 12. Even if Willie says, okay, I'm not Pasternak, but I'm not. You're not two million less. I'm not two million less. Yeah. And knowing that you're 12 months away from maybe, I don't know,

Buffalo Sabres looking at you going, hey, wouldn't you like to see him and Tage Thompson together? You know, the one thing I'll take from this conversation being brought up at this point in the season is that one year from now, if Willie does not have a new contract, it's a very real conversation about... No, no, no, I'm sorry.

Too late. Too late to what? Too late to have... Too late to trade him by that? To take it that far. Okay, we are now... You want to talk about evolve or die? You don't let Willie, you don't let willie

you don't let matthews you don't let your top guys go to july 1st ufa and then you're holding the deadline sorry you let him go to the trade deadline when you figure out okay no it's too late there too. It's too late. Because you will not get value for moving them. You will get rental prices, which is a first and a pick. Unless you know that you can lock them in long term. Now you've got a different conversation. Now you've got more of a hockey trade. Right. But if you're Bo Horvat now and you're thinking about rental,

you don't go back past a first and a pick because you're just renting the guy for 30 games yeah you don't blow your brains out for any of them do you think if they don't sign willie next summer they'll talk about trading him before the season do not let assets like this walk out and burn you like Johnny hockey did for Calgary. That is a major lesson learned. Yeah. I don't know, man. I just feel like if you don't have Willie under contract next summer,

I still think you got to go into the season, see how things are going. He's playing well. What does numbers look like? You know, and keep trying. And if, if you think you have a,

you're losing the second round here, and you think you can win a Stanley Cup the following year, you take the chances of him walking out the door for nothing then? Yes. Consider it, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, part of this for me is... To me, with all the assets you've lost the last three, four years

trying to chase this thing, I think it's crazy you would let Willie Nylander walk out the door for nothing. You're not going to compare him to the other guys that walked out the door it's a different situation right like there he is part of the core four here none of the other guys are part of the core four yeah hyman's as close as it got for sure you know it's just you're not gonna oh i don't know willie's moving boys he's trending up he's trending up he has turned himself into a a major player here for the Toronto Maple Leafs. And there's arguments to say outside of Mitch Marner's consecutive streak,

Willie's going toe-to-toe for him for being the best player this season. He's been great. He's been great, no doubt about it. And that's, you know, I think that's part of why people are frustrated. We're having this conversation instead of just standing up and going like this. But let them get at that on another bogus podcast there's plenty of those yeah hey listen i get it i understand real conversations happen by real people that are close to the team i see them seeing this coming too i do know just that kyle loves the lula amarillo you have time

use it i don't know if they're gonna rush or jump the gun he's eligible july they jumped the gun he's eligible july one with matthews yeah but everybody's talked matthews and no one's talked about willie well yeah i think they're probably both gonna sign a contract on july 1st the lease it's gonna be fascinating great drama for the will our show still be on the air in July? But we're doing an emergency podcast. We are 100% doing a midsummer pod. From the course. Yeah.

Should we talk about hockey? Oh, sure. What's the point? They're going to lose all their stars. There's no point to even talk about the team. No, because I don't even feel like watching hockey anymore. No, this is a good game tonight, guys. This is a good matchup for both teams

this one is not anaheim it's not just another team one of those one of those bad teams that we we talk about the rangers have just beat the devils the abs the golden knights and the blues before this game so for the good teams they're good teams uh it's funny though i think in those four games they probably uh from from your world analytically they have not been great they give up some quality scoring chances again shisterkin's playing better so it's those last four games probably have a bit of a look that they had a lot last year. Yeah, well, and it's funny because the games before that, they lost to Chicago, they lost to Ottawa. Like, you know, they're definitely back to their old tricks,

which is getting great goaltending and good finishing. Beating the Devils is obviously no small feat this season. Not many teams have done that. So big challenge for the Leafs here tonight. Okay, we're going to the most famous arena in the world, Madison Square Garden, with our good buddy most famous arena in the world, Madison Square Garden. All right. With our good buddy Luke Fox taking in the morning skate.

How's the vibe in Broadway, Luke? It's fantastic. You must have loved living here, Nick. I really get an energy jolt when I'm in this city. I love this city. So it's a bit drizzly here now, but I don't think it's as bad as it is in Toronto. But the Leafs are very loose.

They're feeling good. I was talking to Mark Giordano for a story, and I was asking him about how the quality of scoring chances are up league-wide at,wide at an all-time high, and he was explaining why that was. And he was like, it's because you have so many skilled players. And he said, like a Michael Bunting will come through and just beat you one-on-one.

And it was because Bunting was walking past. And so Bunting started laughing, and Gio started laughing. And the mood around these guys is night and day from where it was at the end of October. It's really something to see. Did the team check out Bunting's got a cover on a magazine? Has he? Have you seen it?

Oh, no, I don't know about this. Oh, yeah, he's got this huge spread and he's just looking like a gazillion dollars. What magazine? Without escrow. I'll find it. I don't know. I'll find it at the break. But somebody put him on a cover, and he's got the all GQ look.

Matthews, yeah, wow, okay. Okay, I'll have to check it out. I'll get the name of the magazine. I didn't recognize it. All right, we'll check Toronto. I think the pictures were color life hey um just in terms of now uh the goaltending situation murray goes in tonight facing a guy like shisterkin uh

this could be the uh the the biggest test of the year i think for matt murray yeah no i think it will be. And, you know, even though he came away with a win, that performance against the Calgary Flames was the first one you could say that, you know, he didn't bring his A game. Like, he looked shaky that game. He hadn't looked like that since the opener

before he got injured at the Bell Center. So when you look across the stall, or actually the stall right next to him, you see a guy who's just pitched back-to-back shutouts, and there's a bit of internal competition brewing. I think Matt Murray's a proud guy, and I think we're going to see a much better performance from him. Yeah, that would be good. You worry about the decline

after seeing such a similar season from jack campbell last year starting awesome and hopefully he's able to bounce back ably here um looking at some of the other positions for this team right now one guy i'm interested still kind of getting some love from his coach connor timmons still in the lineup finding his footing a little bit you know know, when Jamie Ben, sorry, Jordy Ben gets healthy, what are the expectations for what is going to happen here? Do you think Timmons is a guy who they want to see stick consistently in the lineup? Yeah, I mean, he's a right shot, right?

And I think that goes a long way to help balance out the pairings. And I honestly, I think the organization would like to have some depth. Well, they have the depth when everyone's healthy, but also have some flexibility so that if someone isn't playing well, they're not just forced to play the six they got. So some internal competition to stick in the lineup, I think, would be great. And also, you know, Sheldon Keefe has shown a tendency to adjust his lineup according to the opponent.

So if you're playing a bit, maybe a slower, more rugged team, maybe Ben goes in. And if not, you got Timmons. But this is a nice little development. I mean, this is the silver lining, right, of what happens when a guy like Morgan Riley comes out. You know, your middle class defensemen start getting harder assignments and getting more minutes. And a guy like Timmons, who'd probably be on the outside looking in or playing with the Marlies or something, gets his footing with his new team in the NHL.

And, you know, it's great to have that. I'm sure it did wonders for his confidence to pick up a bunch of points against that really crappy Anaheim Ducks team. But to see your name on the scoreboard, start feeling part of the team, I think it's a great sign. And they're sheltering him a little bit, not sheltering, but like couching him a little bit by partnering him with TJ Brody, who's probably the most dependable pure defender. So, you know, he's set up nicely to succeed with the Leafs right now.

I really like that partnership. It makes it kind of an easier transition for him. And, yeah, he's just one of a number of kind of nicer stories down the bottom of the line. Pontus Holmberg's another one. All right, well, listen, we found that article for you, Luke. My crack team here discovered, what is it, JB? Glory.

It's called Glory. Glory Sports is the Instagram account. Bunting, the previous additions were Alec Manoa, Christine Sinclair, some fine company the man is keeping with the subhead of how the Toronto Maple Leafs player made his journey

back home. There you go. Well, listen, enjoy that and see if you can get a couple of sound bites after the game on the photo shoot with Glory. Okay, I'll buy it. Thanks for doing this. Thanks, Luke. All right, take care, boys. Look at this kid. Look at this

what he's got on here. Look at the Twitter logo all over him, basically. Well, it's not actually Twitter, but he's just got a bird suit. What a pigeon. It's a nice little leather jacket. Hey, only in Toronto, toronto i love it i love it like weren't we like a year ago two years ago we see uh mckeah with a national commercial because he one time in an interview was like i like what do they what do they like

the man love soup you think he's getting that commercial in Vancouver? Soup man. Well, they got to go to a final. Maybe he'll get another commercial. Let's go to Sheldon Keefe for our first Kippers Clipper on being in the Big Apple. Derek, you got that one for me? Beautiful time of year, beautiful city.

Walking around last night is terrific. But, you know, wake walking around last night it's uh it's terrific but uh you know wake up here today and it's game day so you just sort of for me uh walk into the city or walk into the arena excuse me through the city is is great and we'll walk back to the hotel but other than that it's it's game day and we'll just focus on what's going to happen on the ice you know how we talk about Ontario guys coming in here and having that extra juice? Oh, extra juice in New York City, huh? The boys will be bringing it tonight.

I got a time. You're lagging the juice, huh? I lagging the juice. No better place to be at Christmas time than Manhattan. And they've got some wives, maybe some girlfriends there that made the trip. They want to go out for a nice... The juice is good, trip. They want to go out for a nice dinner after the game,

maybe a couple of cocktails. Hey, does that not take away from the juice a little bit, the hockey juice? No, this is the maturity of saying that's our carrot. You want to really enjoy it? Win. Yeah. Okay okay we're still gonna do it but it won't be as fun with a loss it's truly truly makes a huge difference doesn't that make sense yeah it does good great place to wander around a little snowfall goes a long way yeah i've only i've only been in new york once in my life yeah that's that's got to be a

next holiday to-do list i know you're going to somewhere warm and sunny this year for christmas that sounds pretty good too yeah i'm looking forward to it there you go uh where do you guys want to go angville camp connor timmons you brought up you want to hear a sound bite on let's talk about connor tim connor connor all right let's go connor connor well i think it's impressive plays with his head up and he's looking to make a play looking to find a stick to get it to, whether that's to pass it on breakouts or regroups and move it up the ice. Or look at the play he made to Mitch in the first period of the other night in the offensive zone.

A lot of defensemen are just going to kind of lower their head and pound it towards the net, but he gets his head up, surveys the ice, and finds a stick that gets it to Mitch, and Mitch does the rest there. So I like that part of it. His head's up and he's making plays. He's defended well. He's got good size, good stick, and a body that can get in the way. I think to me it's just about more game reps and experience playing in the league.

He's had a lot of disruptions over his short pro career and trying to get him as involved as we can here through this stretch while we're dealing with our own injuries but uh he's done well and we want to continue to give him opportunity to to keep keep taking it to another level and adding different layers to his game a lot of disruptions to his pro career up to this point sheldon keith notes concussions healthy just stay healthy that was yeah that's the number one thing that's why he's not in arizona anymore he just couldn't stay healthy uh they run out of patience on a guy like that and then you get a fresh attitude out of kyle that says we'll give

you another chance to stay healthy that feels like the type of guy that you go seek out and say man this is a guy who has had disruptions who was highly touted if he can just get a run of hockey going here maybe we can find you know it could be found money for us and i was luke said right-handed shot, a bigger body, but just there's no physicality to his game. That's the only kind of wish list for me. That's just another guy that I think I can go and run. Yeah. No, it's very possible.

He definitely, I don't want to say he's hesitant, but yeah, it's just not part of his game. It's not an element that he has. And I think that's tonight, guys. This is where I look at the New York Rangers and, you know, particularly on that blue line. Trouba, not having a great season with the puck, but still as dangerous as anyone. Open ice hitter, physicality of him lingren uh keandra miller not as physical probably as a lot of people would like but ken yeah and will uh on occasion

uh who am i missing schneider you seen that guy with the rangers yeah i wouldn't sleep on that guy either yeah so i i think i think a game like tonight might give Kyle and Brendan and even Sheldon probably a better feel for what they still may need than anything that they've seen against a team like Anaheim. Yeah, and I do think that they've probably been aware of it, but it hasn't really come up this much since the Philadelphia incident that you've seen sort of that lack of edge that they don't have They've probably been aware of it, but it hasn't really come up this much since the Philadelphia incident. You've seen sort of that lack of edge that they don't have because all they do is win,

and they don't need to get in that sort of stuff right now. I do love the games around Christmas, though. Always have a special vibe, and you're right. I think good pace coming tonight. All right, we've got a few other clips. Do you want to hear them talk about the point? Go ahead, Sammy. I just have a classic. We're talking about sports media conversations yeah is tonight a potential goalie controversy tipping point to you if murray's no good no no okay no not till

after saturday night that's what i was gonna say okay who's saturday is samsonov yeah if so murray whatever they lose tonight i don't know how bad he has to be or whatever. Say they lose tonight and he's not great. They're down 5-2. Samsonov goes in against his former team in Washington. They win. And then what are we talking about on Monday? You know what we're talking about Monday?

Matt Murray starting against Tampa Bay on Tuesday. Okay. Yeah. That's what we're talking about. All right. That's why I asked the question. But I will say, you know, once we are at the beginning of, you know, the potential is there if there's a couple of bad games for him

or you start to go, are we sure about this? Two games for him, one for him. As we've proven to social media, we need something to talk about. Well, we quite literally do need something to talk about. Let's just say for argument's sake, Matt Murray gets blown out tonight. Yeah. And Samsonov has a strong game, maybe beats Ovi, shuts him down. Still Matt Murray's start Tuesday night, boys.

I mean, you don't let a guy build up that many chips just to crap all over him yeah you lose a couple listen i'm not saying i'm not saying with the coaching staff and with the people you know with general manager kyle dubas and everybody but it's i think it's already starting to samsonov's a likable guy he's a really likable guy we play his clips fans seem to like him people gravitate towards that kind of guy that's a nice warm-up for me like he he's played really well he's got a he's definitely got a sexier style in that you know he kind of flies around a little bit more athletic like to me there's a chance here for fans to be a little bit like i just i can they may pick their horse but the the the odor

of a goalie controversy to me is starting to hit my nose you know what i don't think it happens in a situation like this where the leafs are where they are they're currently they're in terms of goal differential third best team in the nhl they're way up there in points percentage in the division it's not like they're trying to make playoffs goalie controversies happen when you're like we need to ring every point we can that's fair get the right guy every night right now like you have the luxury of going yeah murray lost three in a row but you know we're gonna let them play through it they're in a good spot now they've they've earned the right to avoid the goalie controversy they're eight points up right now i'm gonna play the seven up on tampa bay i'm gonna play the opposite side that there will not there it's been set up to set up those

conversations though 100 for sure if you want to flip notes yeah if it does happen despite what you say yeah it's because it was laid out that way. Hey, guys, come on in. Best man wins, and let's giddy up and go. For sure. But if it's the other way around, and you're saying it's Matt's net, no matter what, he's the starter, and Matt's garbage, eventually people are going to go, excuse me, question in the back. Why is it Matt's net? You know, it's going to happen regardless if one guy's not playing well.

And they've never really, really established anybody as a true number one. You're right that they're definitely like, we prefer the guy who has another year on his contract. They've left it in a way where a couple of bad starts would naturally push the other guy forward. Do you think there's a chance they would sign, if Samsonov's good for like another month here, that they would sign him before the season ends? Or do you think regardless that's a chance they would sign if Samsonov's good for like another month here that they would sign him before the season ends or do you think regardless that's a summer decision I guess you got to see everyone else's contract first yeah just tell me if if you're the agent for Samsonov right now and I don't even know who that would be but I bet you it's Dan Milstein you're you're at a decent guess you're you're you're a week uh out of christmas and you've got

the best save percentage and the best goals against average let's hear your offer uh yeah what'd you offer to jack campbell last year at this time we'll take that his agent's don mean don me and okay i this time last year i you would have thought that if they would have come out of the gate and gone around four for Jack Campbell, it could have got done. Right? Yeah, thank God it did. But then he got better, and then the number went between five and six. Yeah, just move on.

You know where it went on. So tell me something. You're Kyle Dubas right now, and you want to get ahead. You're hedging, right? You're going for it. I've seen enough. I've seen enough up until Christmas. I want you around for the next three or four years.

What are you offering Samson on? I'm offering him the chance to play for the rest of the season and earn another NHL contract. Bingo. Okay, there you go. You threw it out there, not me. There is absolutely no way I'm going long-term with him. No.

Just zero shot. You have to keep him hungry. Like, this is what, I think this is part of the, you know, every time they get a chance to talk about him, right? Boys are like, oh, he's bought in completely. He's everything. He's so committed to it all of a sudden he's got a six-year deal. It's like maybe let's just play off that part of it where he's committed

and hungry and looking for a contract as opposed to giving him what he wants. Eventually, though, you got to say yes to somebody. Yeah, you got Matt Murray next year, and then you can bring in another goalie reclamation project that they do every year. Here comes Aiden Hill. To me, like honestly to me, you can't. Making up names.

I like Samsonov, and it's been a wonderful start to the season here, but I've seen the other side of it with him we've seen how it goes downhill pretty quickly you cannot commit after any length of time here yeah just move on and samsonov's just on the one year deal at one six yeah whatever it's somewhere in there it's a pretty good position it is um before we get to break so we don't we're not late for messier do do you want to hear Keefe on trying to tie the Leafs point streak? Yes. Good. Yes, and how many is that?

15 in a row right now. Cool. I know. We've done good things to put ourselves in a good spot. I think you don't aspire to reach any sort of milestone or record or anything like that. You're just trying to give yourself a chance to win every game you play. Fundamentally, as a coach, I believe we can win every game.

So no matter what's happening, that's my approach, and that's how we go about it. No matter who's in or out of the lineup or what's happening in the schedule, you go in and prepare to win every game. Today is just another game for us to continue to build on the things we've been doing. All right. That's his story, and he's sticking to it. The least record is 16 games in a row they get tied tonight.

From November 22nd to December 26th, 2003. 14-0-2 in 16 games. One record. I can't keep up with all the records that's what i was just that's what i was just gonna say do you ever think how sick keith is and being like oh yeah we set the record for points last year mitch marner set the least record matthew's record and then he's like did you guys fire me a month ago oh no how about the first round out of that that how about that instead of all these records like he would trade in every one of these stupid records

that like hey they're not stupid, I should say. Matthew's six years old. Just believe, buddy. Believe. I also think. Well, no, because of Gary, we're just on a death march to play a seven-game series against the Lightning. I don't believe in anything. Do you think that these guys look at the six first round in a row and they really resent the first couple years?

Because, like, you can't really say it was their team then, can you? Like, when it was their team then can you like when it was i think the first two years with uh when they lost when they lost to babs and bozak and jvr and when they lost the caps when they took them to six games a year the caps won the cup yeah it was an incredible year we got a break here and then the next year with boston was another really close series where they went to seven games but then after that it's kind of it's on them yeah okay okay we're gonna take a quick break and come back with the six-time stanley cup champion espn analyst and the guy that gifted me a stanley cup ring mark messier after the break

you're watching listening to real kipper and born this is real kipper and born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Justin Bourne, Nick Kiprios. We're back. New York Rangers, Toronto Maple Leafs. Get a hold of Marc Messier and bring him in. But in the meantime, I was talking, JB, about the challenges that I see that the Rangers could present to the Toronto Maple Leafs.

One of them is that the Rangers are a physical team. And I know the decision to let Ryan Reeves go. And we've seen what Ryan reeves has meant to the minnesota wild with a huge hit last night we'll talk about that a little later on yeah um but do you have uh is is there somewhere you can go quickly on a team with most hits this year find that yep with the rangers the rangers and i i don't know what the number is but they to me would be a top five team right now. Fairly efficient at said thing.

Hits. Here you go. Tops in the league. Rangers are third most hits in the NHL. There you go. Wow. Behind just two. Hold on.

I want to take a crack at this because I don't know the list. Okay. I'm going to say Boston. Boston is not one of the two. Boston is 12th. Where do you think the Leafs are? Believe it or not, I think they're closer to the top 10. From what I've seen the last three weeks,

it feels like they're, you know, I mean, there might be a few bummy checks. Do they count? They're dead in the middle, Kipper. They're 16th in the NHL. I thought they could have been like 12th or 11th. One of the teams ahead of the Rangers is Brian Burks. Oh, Pittsburgh.

And the other team? West? No. East? East. East. Very close to the one we just discussed. Washington.

No, it's John tortorella's team oh really yeah philly and pittsburgh running into people out there islanders are in the top five you know who's in the top five ottawa ottawa center centers by the way on a bit of a run i think they're seven and three in their last 10. But you wrote them off. Did I? I wrote the Canucks off for sure. Did I write Ottawa off? Probably.

Sounds like something I would do. Flames run into people a lot. Anyway. Least hitting team in the league is the Devils and the Sabres. Sabres? That's surprising. Did Ryan Reeves leaving the New York Rangers kind of surprise you after kind of the whole thing with Tom Wilson a few years ago? That's why they changed over their front office, wasn't it?

That they didn't have enough toughness in the lineup? That pretty much cost Jeff Gordon and John Davidson their job, wasn't it? Yeah, they got Sammy Blaze in the deal that they got hoodwinked on um but yeah their d is pretty physical i guess i'm a little surprised they they moved on from him but sound like he wanted to move on still waiting to see lafreniere find his stride there a little bit new york but he's on that kid line with heidel and kako and getting better you think trocheck's starting to feel a little better there it was a big decision to go get him the decision of letting uh uh ryan strome leave he went on to sign with anaheim yeah there seemed to have been some good chemistry but

between strome and panarin but uh they went out and got what we thought was i don't know more physical trochek yeah yeah i i think he is getting more comfortable and i think he's a good player for them you know looking at this team though you mentioned their physical you mentioned their d being good to me it just comes down to how shisterkin's gonna play you know he started the season looking pretty average is pretty average in the first couple months in december so far he's in 926 you know he's starting to look like the guy of old that to me is where this team is gonna make their hay okay should we talk about the reeves hit oh yeah should we talk about ryan reeves welling chronic did you get a sense that it was a split on how people felt that this hit was,

or was it just a small group that just continued to want to get big hits out of the game? I mean, it's a great barometer for, you know, maybe not the best barometer, but I see people talking about it a lot on Twitter. I had a lot of people talking to me, and there were a few of my friends that were kind of, you know, it's an iffy, iffy 50-50 play, but to me, I've watched it like a million times.

Maybe that makes me bloodthirsty, but I just, I love hits like that and they just never happen anymore. So outside of whether or not we thought the hit was clean or not for one second here, we know how you feel. That hit doesn't make you squirm.

It's just part of what you think that you're signing up for when you're watching. To me, yes, exactly right. If he is a National Hockey League player, skating full speed up the center of the rink with, and he looks back inexplicably with the puck on his stick and Ryan Reeves is on the ice. Like there's, it's a, it's a big hit. The guy was hurt, but like you have to be somewhat aware of who's on the ice and your

surroundings and the situation. No, like you can have a debate about you don't like hits like that and so we need to change the you know the rules for sure hit like that but as the rules are constructed that's a brilliant hit yes there's a man skating straight down the center of the ice with a hockey puck we have reeves on his head if you want to hear yes i do if you can't hit that guy who can you hit and i plowed him honestly like he he locked eyes with me. Like, I saw him look at me, and then he just kind of turned his head and held on to the puck.

So, yeah, I'm not sure exactly what happened. I hope he's okay, but you got to know when I'm on the ice, and you definitely don't skate at me like that. I pretty much summed it up. What did you think? What did you think what did i think my my first instinct is to go back and look at uh heronix body position just prior to the hit and i if he's got just a fraction of his back foot on the ice that's it he had left himself so wide open and so vulnerable the most i can remember any player

doing it and it's not like there's a rule that says if you see a vulnerable player you cannot hit him there's no rule in the rule book that says that some onus on yourself to protect so when i when when you see how how unprotected he left himself then you know that's not on ryan to stop dead in his tracks hug him and say uh and there's no time for him to get out of the way yeah i mean once you're committed to it there's just no chance that you can hit the brakes it's also part of how he makes his living is being a physical presence he's thinking that way in particular if you want ryan reeves to just take the puck from chronic in that situation then you want the league to be totally different than you want the league to be a different sport to me and when that's fine that's not a terrible thing if you would

like hockey to be a non-contact league but as long as you can hit people to separate them intimidation is a huge part of this game huge part and that's a chance to send an intimidation intimidating message and i don't know boy you're coming down the middle on the rangers or sorry on the wild you gotta think twice okay as promised uh mark messier will join us uh now hey moose thanks for doing this man i i know you're a busy guy i mean you're on the the ovechkin circuit are you not i got caught on the west side highway at the rainy in new york traffic there's a story for being no late but uh we'll wait for you forever pal thanks for doing this thanks for having me on we know we got the Leafs in in New York and I want to get into that but uh the other night

uh watching history 800 goals uh and you were in the booth you and Chelly uh Chris Chelios called the game with Steve Levy uh and you were in a color situation. So just give me a 6,000-foot view from what you were able to take in that whole night. Well, I think the thing that struck me most importantly or impressively was that we're two and a half years out from the time that everybody's predicting that Alex will break Wayne's record, and the game had a, like, the atmosphere was unbelievable. It was like a prize fight.

And, of course, Gordie Howell was within reach going into that night. He didn't quite get there, but he did get the 800. But there was a different energy in the rink for sure. And I don't know if it was just me and Chelly a little nervous going in to do the color position, which is very difficult. But it was great to see, and Alex didn't disappoint. Washington's playing great right now, came out, scored early. And I think the thing that really kind of was emotional or impressive for me

was when he took a curtain call and the Chicago crowd actually threw their hats on the ice and gave him a standing ovation. It was really an amazing moment for hockey in general. Think about three people that have ever played the game to reach that 800-goal level there. Incredible accomplishment. Wow, what a night for hockey. Mark, you've obviously seen firsthand the way that Wayne went about scoring his 892 goals in the NHL,

and now you're seeing Alex in his whole career as he hits 800 and works towards Gretzky's record. What are your thoughts on the differences? There's obviously clear differences in the way they've gone about it, but what do you think about their playing styles and just how different they've gone about achieving their big totals? Well, Chelly said it best on the telecast the other night is that

the thing that I think strikes everybody about Alex is that he scored 800 goals and when he scores he still gets as excited as he did in the first goal. He has a passion to play the game. He has a passion to score goals. He's driven to score goals. I don't think I've ever played with a more driven person to be successful

than Wayne. You know, in practice, he was ultra competitive. He worked hard in practice on the ice early off the ice late. You know, if he got one goal early you know, it was, it was trouble because you know, my dad used to say, once he got the bit in his mouth, there was no stopping him. And Wayne made you play 60 minutes. He was going to try to score no matter what the score was.

But I think it's the overall just sheer passion for the game that if you had to compare the two, that would be it. Obviously, the styles are completely different, the way they score, the size of each player physically, but the passion and the drive to score goals was very similar. You know, Mark, we also look at when Sid and Ovi came in the league together in 2004, 2005, and this is not to diminish Ovi came in the league together in 2004, 2005, and this is not to diminish Ovi in any shape or way, but it almost seems like every other year they were creating new rules to open up the game and to give these guys an opportunity to shine.

And I certainly look at our era where it was just, hey, you know, if someone wants to ski behind you with a hook or interfere or, you know, all the things that you needed to do to fight through and score goals, it is still quite remarkable what Wayne and you and many others have been able to do to get those totals up. Yeah, you're right. I think, you know know the game does evolve it does change and i think for the better i think we got into a place uh you know not long ago you

know maybe 2000 mid late 90s 2000s where the game might have became a little bit too stale um you know not enough offense too much uh you know of the ho holding. It didn't display or showcase the incredible speed and skill that the players have. And I think if you look at it just pure from an entertainment standpoint, hockey is the most, in my opinion, the most entertaining live action sport there is with the speed, the body contact, the skill of skating 25, 30 miles an hour, balancing on razor edges and stick handling. And you see McDavid and the young players and the skill that they play with. So I think from that standpoint, yeah, there have been some rule changes,

but I think the rule changes have only made the game better in some ways. I do miss some of the – or I do get frustrated at times with some of the calls that we all look at and say that would never be a penalty 20 years ago, but you know what? It's not 20 years today. The rules are in there for a reason and

I think it doesn't matter when you played, when Gordie Howe played or Rocket Richard or Wayne Gretzky or Mary Lemieux or, you know, now Sid and Ovi, to put the kind of numbers and statistics that they've put up, they've earned. You know, that doesn't come easy. And it's just been amazing. If you just look at those two players when they came in the league,

what they meant for the league, how lucky both organizations' franchises are to get two generational players, franchise players that can change the trajectory of those franchises and how lucky they've been. My hat's off to them. And I would never use rules or anything as an excuse for what we did or couldn't do or what they've been able to accomplish or what they couldn't.

They've earned it through hard work and sure determination. Mark, I want to ask you about the Toronto Maple Leafs. This is a team that has had a lot of success here going back to November 11th. And most specifically, I want to ask about the thing that, you know a team that has had a lot of success here going back to november 11th and and most specifically i want to ask about the thing that you know you've got your name on a trophy for leadership um you know this is a leafs team that has a ton of success regular season success yet again yet hasn't been able to get over the hump i look at the core of this team and you've got john tavarez and you've got the superstars that have been drafted and marner matthews and neil

ander you know are do you think it's on a guy like Tavares to step up and be a leader? Can he pull them through? Do they have to have leadership collectively as a group? Sometimes when you come up against a challenge like this first round sort of hurdle they're coming up against, they just need a little boost. And does it have to come from that one guy or can it come from the group? Well, I think it has to come from the group for sure. I mean mean i look at all the years that we were able to win in edmonton and how many leaders we had in that dressing room quiet leaders vocal leaders leaders that led by

example leaders that that knew how to conduct themselves off the ice how to manage the press i mean uh then coming to new york and ultimately the team that we had in New York. And, you know, someone just wrote a book called No One Wins Alone. I'm not sure his name, but it's so true. And leadership is the same thing. You need leadership from everybody, and everybody's got to feel part of that leadership. And, of course, there's going to be some younger guys that with not as much experience or not sure what to do at certain times,

but then everybody fills in. And, you know, when you talk about the Leafs, you know, there's plenty of leadership on the Leafs team now. They've been through some war. They've got some scar tissue. They've had some failures, which only, you know, should make you more determined. But ultimately, when you talk about the core, yeah, the core is incredibly important,

and you can't win without an amazing core, but you also can't win without an amazing group of role players. And I, you know, take my hat off every day to the players in Edmonton and New York that we won with, like Kipper, like Mike Hudson, like the guy, Eddie Olchek, Doug Lidster. I mean, the names go on and on and on. Those are the guys oftentimes that will take a great core that's good enough players with the experience and put them over the top. And so I think oftentimes that part of a team and that team chemistry gets overlooked when you talk about is a team good enough to win.

And I certainly know the importance of players like that and thankful that I was surrounded by great character players that understood their role and did their role willingly and did a great job doing it. You know, you bring up an interesting point when you talk about knowing whether or not you think you might have the right role players to win a Stanley Cup

and whether or not you need to make changes. And we were humming along in 94 as a top team, yet we made, I think, six or seven changes, Massa. I'll never forget that feeling in Calgary before the trade deadline. And it's like, oh my God, he's gone. He's gone. He's gone. Who's Brian Noonan?

Who's Stefan Matteau? And just the major changes. And I'm just wondering now, Massa, with the hockey that you're watching today compared to our era, and you're an evaluator like a kyle dubas is the gap between what we see in the regular season and what goes on in the playoffs so great that it's harder to judge for him what you need now opposed to when we played i i i don't think the recipe for winning has changed that much even though the game has evolved in so many ways and the rules have changed in so many ways. I still think if you look at the past champions, St. Louis, Boston back when they won,

the teams have gone, you know, Tampa Bay. The smallest defenseman on Tampa Bay was Brian McDonough, who's 6'2", 225. You know, size does matter in the playoffs. Heaviness does matter in the playoffs. Now, of course, you have to have the skill to go along with it, but when you're talking about two months of grueling hockey, wearing down, leaning on people, and teams trying to lean, because, Kipper, you know better than anyone, the first thing you try to do is take the will to win away

from the team that you're playing against, the first thing you try to do is take the will to win away from the team that you're playing against and how are you going to do that and that's by you know uh ground and pound uh you ground and pound you slowly and and methodically you know take the starch out of the other team if you can and uh and then to be able to do it rinse and repeat for two months every other day. That is not only incredibly demanding physically, but it's incredibly demanding mentally. And if you don't have the kind of team that's able to withstand that kind of pressure that's being put on you, and then also deliver that kind of pressure to the other team over two months,

then you're, then you got problems. So, I mean, there's, that's only one element obviously, but for me, I think, I think size and some of those key positions and some of those depth positions is critical. For you, just on the outside looking in at the Toronto Maple Leafs, is that the biggest question mark still for this roster despite all the success that they've had? It could be.

You know, Kipper, it's, you know, unless you're really, as you know, in the dressing room with a really up-close view of the team and the psyche of the team and with the team on a day-to-day basis and the grittiness of the team. It's so hard to look at, you know, watch. I mean, I watch hockey every night. I mean, you know, it's not a day that goes by that I don't watch teams and see. But, you know, for me to go on here and really see where their strengths and weaknesses are, I think we all know where their strengths are, obviously,

and where their weaknesses are I think would be unfair. But I still think that, you know, those qualities that I just talked about is one of the ways we won here in New York after 54 years. You look at Jay Wells, you look at the guys that we traded for at the deadline with Mateau, you know, 6'4", you know, 220 pounds, Brian Noonan, McTavish was gritty. I mean, these guys are role players players but they're heavy and big and

strong and tough as nails as is in their character so you know that that you got to have the talent believe me and we did with you know you know it was dubov and leach and kovalev and marmer and great players but you know we also had we also had a lot of grittiness on that team as well mark uh you know all the great athletes throughout the career, you know, as you get later on, you have success, you hit milestones, right? And we saw, we're talking about OVs earlier in the show. I wanted to get your take on how distracting it is.

Mitch Marner is currently in the middle of a point streak. Last year, Matthews chased 60. You know, tonight the Leafs are trying to set the franchise record for consecutive points. Did you find those sort of milestones and chases distracting or did you not think about them much no they were they were not distracting in fact they were actually galvanizing I think that when you get on a roll there's nothing better in hockey or in any team sport is when you do get on a roll and there becomes so much synergy in the team uh you know you you start kind of

doing the same thing uh you know you warm up the same way uh you know and your line rushes in warm up everything becomes really kind of clear and focused and and um and and that is just part of an extension of a team that's really kind of playing well at a certain time. And to me, when those – and it also kind of elevates the interest and the emotions of the game because of, you know, when Wayne was chasing the record or, you know, when he was going for, you know, 50 goals when he scored in 39 games. We didn't think he was going to score five goals that night, but, you know, we knew the chase was on

and he was going to do it within the 50-game mark. so i think it just kind of elevates the whole feeling around the team there's more interest around the team there's more press around the team and of course that just gives the team kind of that much more to play for and and when you get on a roll like it is it's it's a great feeling and and marner and the team are feeling it right now and it's great to watch do you know what happened 21 years ago today? We went to Raccoon Lodge. I wish I was around, but

I was not. 21 years ago, this day, 2001, you became the third player in NHL history to record 1,800 points. Oh, wow. Do you remember the game at all? Do you remember the game at all? I don't know if I do.

Just so many milestones. That is so cool. That is so cool in my eyes that you don't even remember that. That's how great your life has been. You can't remember that. You beat Buffalo 4-2. Someone asked me on the telecast the other day if I remembered the milestones, like the 200, 400, 500, 600.

I was in two of them. I scored a hat-trick on my 400th goal and a hat-trick on my 500th goal. And they said, you don't remember that? And I go, no, I don't remember. I said, there's only one number that I really remember my whole career, and that's number six, because of the six down the cups. Wow. And that's all that matters,

man. I was in the game, you scored your 500th, and that was always a magic number in the NHL. Hey, Moose, thanks for doing this, pal. We really appreciate it. Yeah, appreciate being on with you guys. for being late no problem at all anytime kipper thanks for joining us we'll wait for you forever man that's how that's how cool you are yeah at least till 5 p.m

mark messier hall of famer six-time stanley cup champion doing a terrific job with espn okay we're gonna take a quick break and the guy guy that apparently started this whole thing with OV Watch, David Amber, of course, does a terrific job on Sportsnet. Monday night, game of the week for Sportsnet. We got DA after the break. You're watching, listening, Real kipper and born on sportsnet 590 the van there's no way david amber's as busy as mark massier so he should not be late at all for us both Both have a lot on the go.

But no. DA's here. This may be like, I love Mark Massey on our show, but this could be my favorite segment coming up here. Let's welcome in David Amber. The face of Monday Night Sports

on Sportsnet. This is the weirdest intro of all time. Was that good? You know what? I gotta be honest with you. I gotta be honest with you. They gave me... Sammy gave me this lineup.

I screwed up. I copied and pasted from last... He screwed up. I screwed up. Not the first timeed from last. He screwed up. I screwed up. Not the first time. Won't be the last, boys. DA, he's got a host of Hockey Night in Canada. And we know you're not there anymore, but you got this terrific show on Monday.

And you never told me what the show's name is. I found it. So can you help me out? It rolls off the tongue. Rogers Monday Night Hockey. Yes. Yes. Now we got the number one face of Monday Night Rodgers Hockey.

Is that better? No. Okay. Rodgers Monday Night Hockey. Monday Night Rodgers Hockey. Do you remember when we worked together and I said anybody could host? I was wrong.

You told me that almost at the start of every show. Yes. My favorite Kipper story, Justin, you'll love this. We're about to do a segment, and we're about to go on, and Kipper turns to me and goes, hey, just do me a favor, just don't talk too much during the segment. I don't know if he does that with you guys, but he just said, look, just do me a favor. Just don't talk too much during the session. I don't know if he does that with you guys, but he just said, look, just let me do the talking.

And I'm like, well, I'm the host, so I'm supposed to sort of set it up. No, no, no, no, no. Don't worry about that. I'll take care of that. We do that at the start of every show, actually. You know half the stuff I told you. I wasn't that serious, right? Well, yeah, my therapist says not to take it seriously.

So, yeah, no, you know, Kipper, we always had a lot of fun. That's what I remember. You have the most infectious laugh of anyone I've ever worked with. Oh, gosh. That means a lot to me. No, you know what I mean. I'm just joking. You and Elliot and Kelly, we would get so silly and it was it was a lot of fun

a ton of fun uh i even pranked you a couple times i i put it on social media it went viral we had a absolute blast so how much are you enjoying your victory lap around ov knocking on the door of breaking now way Gretzky's record. Because we did have that conversation a few years ago. And, you know, to be quite honest with you, it's not like you said it looking through a piece of glass at his maternity ward when he was born. But, I mean, it was close. Yeah, well, no victory laps yet. I mean, I do remember the first time I brought it up,

I believe you and Doug McClain, I mean, that was a great sense of laughter. You guys definitely gave it to me. Elliot, I mean, you guys all thought I was an idiot, but he hasn't done it yet. So at this point, I'm still wrong, right? But it's amazing what he's doing. He just doesn't slow down, right? Like, he's on pace for a 50-goal season. There's only been two players his age who've ever scored 40 goals, Donny Busick and Gordie Howe. So a 37-year-old, you know, to just keep up this pace,

it's amazing. And, you know, it's sheer power, right? Like, it's such a fast game now. And he's always been a solid skater and a powerful skater. But he doesn't put pucks around goalies. He still puts pucks through goalies. It's just a sight to see. So what is the projection, DA? I'm sure you've worked it out. When is it happening?

Are we two seasons away, three, four? Next November. Yeah, I think we're into the short strokes here. four next November. Yeah. I think it went into the short strokes here. I mean, I imagine he's good for another 20, like conservatively he's good for another 20 to 25 goals this year. So that puts him at eight 25 and then we're, you know,

into the final 75. So imagine not next season, but the early in the following year, like in, you know, November of 2024, a little close to two calendar years from now, early in the following year, like in November of 2024, a little close to two calendar years from now,

I assume we'll be having a pretty celebratory conversation surrounding Alistair Ovechkin as the greatest goalscorer. You know, I'll be as bold as to say this, and P.K. Subban actually said it in the broadcast on Tuesday for ESPN. He said, I don't even know if we're talking about 895 anymore. I think we're actually talking about 1,000. And to be honest with you, I think that's a more realistic new adjustment. And I don't want to get – I mean, listen, 200 goals is not insignificant. That's huge.

But watching OV and how he scores goals and the fact that no one has been able to game plan against him all these years and still continues to not be able to uh and the rules have now changed as you alluded to earlier with mark messier you know it's it's an easier league to score and then it was you know during the first 500 of his goals leads me to believe he he certainly could have 200 more in him and if that's the case we'll be staring down a thousand and and that wouldn't shock me, really. The two things I can recall that at least went through my mind when we first started talking about Ovi at 800 or breaking Gretz's record was, number one,

the ability or inability to stay healthy, and he's certainly taken care of that. And the other one was, what's the roster going to look like? You know, how good are they going to be? Are they going to be able to contend? Backstrom is a guy that has assisted on more of his goals

than anybody, I think. And he hasn't been in the lineup. So, I mean, they've had Kuznetsov, they've had some others, but it doesn't really matter for this guy. Didn't I read your article today? It said Nylander will be a capital in two years. Thanks for reading.

Listen, I was concerned because Backstrom, there's a lot of speculation. He may never be back. We don't know. He was skating in a non-contact uniform in practice last week, so that's a good sign he's at least getting back on the ice. But, yeah, that to me was one of the factors I had and why I thought he would set the record. It's like he had this consummate point guy with him.

The setup, man, the way Brett Hall had Adam Oates and we've seen in other great scorers, they've always had that wingman with them. But the fact that he's been able to do it this year in a variety of different ways with a variety of different line mates, you know, has maybe diminished my fear that that would be a problem for him. And let's face facts. The one thing, and even to go back to your Nylander discussion,

I was listening to it. It was interesting. I think the one flaw is not the right word, but the one thing that's not being discussed is, okay, so let's say Nylander did sign somewhere else. Okay, so that opens up $6.75 million for you. You're going to get another elite player added to the Leafs lineup. So if he does leave, and if Backstrom does have to retire,

they're going to be able to fill those shoes with another elite player. So I do think, you know, that's not going to slow down Ovechkin. If nothing else, it'll be his desire. If he has the desire to keep going and try and get to 1,000, I think he'll do it, and I'm sure that the team would be right behind him for that. And if he decides after 895, I've had enough, I'm done, then that'll be the situation, I imagine. DA, you've obviously followed the Canadian teams closely this year

and previous years. Where are they versus your expectations going in? I know we're waiting for that year where you get six Canadian teams in the postseason or something, but it does not seem like this is going to be the one. Yeah, Chipper remembers. They called me bipolar Bobby or whatever because I'd be freaking out every, you know, every Canadian team. Love your passion for the Canadian teams.

Me too. Yeah, you know, I still don't know what's going on with Calgary. I don't get it. I really don't. And I know they're not getting elite goaltending, and they had that last year with Markstrom. But above and beyond that, they seem slower to me. They seem slow to me.

And they don't seem dynamic to me. They were way too top-heavy last year with that first line. But they don't have that spark that I don't know what's going on. And whether the messaging has gotten tired or the chemistry has gone south or what. I don't know how to explain Calgary.

And it's a bit dumbfounding because I love the individual parts. I love the blue line. And I do think they're very deep and forward. But I don't know what the issue is there. You know, the Leafs, let's wait and see, guys. We've been down this road before, but it's been an incredible stretch for them.

And I know, I listen to your show all the time. I know they're winning in a way that's totally unexpected with a battered blue line and with a trio of goaltenders and everything else. But until, you know, they're still staring down either Tampa or Boston, and that's so unfortunate because I think in any other division you have a better shot. But that's such a tough, you know, two teams to have to stare down

and potentially like Boston on the road looks almost impossible at this point. So it's still early, but we'll wait and see. But the Leafs are playing great. You know, in Winnipeg, if I want to find something on a positive side of the ledger, congrats to Rick bonus. Hey, like it just seems the guys have the joy back and going to the rink this year. It was gone last year, Paul Maurice left and he left, you know,

probably knowing that maybe things were just spiraling out of control and Rick bonus has gone there and done it his way. And it's, I think just given the guys a sense of purpose, the guys a sense of security and they seem to be enjoying themselves. And that's really one of the great stories in the NHL this year, what the Winnipeg Jets are doing. Yeah, it really is. It is.

And then the rest of the day, we don't know. Like, this is the salary cop NHL. We've got five Canadian teams in the playoffs. We may have two. Who the heck knows? Does that include Vancouver? And can you come up with any reasonable explanation why we're going through what we're going through

with the name Bo Horvat? Oh, my God. And here's the thing. And again, I'll get, you know, would you rather pay $10 million for Bo Horvat or for William Nylander? You know, I don't know $10 million for Bo Horvat or for William Nylander? You know, I don't know. And I'm not even sure.

You know, it's funny. When you throw out $10 million, I was like, is William Nylander a $10 million player? Last I checked, Jack Eichel's getting paid $10 million. Like, when you have a talented, high-end, skilled center, I view it much differently than a winger. So, you know, you have an $11 million winger in Marner. There's only one other $11 million winger in the league,

and that's Panarin. And obviously Pasternak's going to join that group. He'll probably be more. But I, you know, or that, wow. It is shocking to me. And how I view it now, guys, and maybe I'm simplifying it, tell me if I'm totally out out to lunch here you went you signed JT Miller to that big seven-year deal were you choosing JT

Miller over Borah Horvat is that what was happening because if you did that that's that seems like a strange decision that's the sense that's the sense I got consciously were doing that they were aware as one of the other yeah they were from what i had heard they were kind of playing off uh who's going to get the contract here the problem is is david they they don't they don't see bo horvat as an 80 point guy like the leafs see kneelander they see him as a 50 point guy well listen do i think bo horvat's going to score he's on pace for 52 goals so i think he's going to score 52 or 53 whatever it is and no i don't see him as a 50 goal scorer his career previous highest 31 but do i see a guy who leads the league and face off wins do i see a guy with great leadership he's a captain do i see a guy who wears you know who drags guys into the fight do i see a guy who has all those emotional

eq elements you look for in a guy yeah and that's there's value in that. I mean, you win, I think, with guys like Bo Orbach, quite frankly. So I don't think it can be strictly just looked at as, well, one guy's going to have 85 points and one guy's going to have 70 points or 65 points. I do think there's so much more to the puzzle. You know, like I look at Gabriel Landeskog, and that's the kind of guy you can really build a team around, especially when you have guys like Matthews and Marner.

You can bring in a guy like a Landis God, like a Horvat, that type of player, and I think it's a great complementary piece. So I don't want to base it all on skill. I think there's some other intangible things there that I really love in Bo Horvat's game, but I think the Canucks have made a mess of this. The fact that it's where it is now with their captain and a guy who's so well-liked and works his butt off and does all those things, and that's not a knock on jt miller i think jt miller is a very good player but um it's surprising to me that they would they would

kind of go this route with their captain yeah i know uh neil andrews always been your favorite player on the leafs da so i'm sure you're hoping he sticks around for many many years to come the um the next question. Tongue in cheek. A little bit, yeah. Sometimes I got to ask him because I'm old. You know, talking about Bo Horvat and the physical element, we were chatting earlier in the show about Ryan Reeves' hit on Hronik last night.

You know, you've watched the NHL, covered it for many years now. What are your thoughts on how hitting has changed in the NHL? Is this something that the game needs more of, less of? Do you miss it from 20 years ago? Yeah, I mean, I don't miss players getting injured. It's really horrible to see Ronak leave the ice in the fashion he did yesterday. But yeah, like any fan, I think, out there, you miss the physicality. I think what's happened now is you have guys going at such a fast pace,

and a lot of them haven't been conditioned to be hit because, let's face facts, all the way down to junior and minor hockey, the hitting is much less a thing and the skill is much more a thing. Guys better have their heads on a swivel. If Ryan Reeves is out there, if Tom Wilson's out there, if Radko Gudis is out there, if Luke Shen's out there, you better damn well have your head on a swivel or else it might get taken off. And it's crappy that guys are getting injured,

but I didn't have a problem per se with the hit. I didn't think it was a predatorial hit, I think. And you even heard Derek Lalonde say, you know, Ronick would love to have that one back, right? He went and for some reason he looked backwards with the puck on his stick. And decided to look forward and there's a train in your tracks. So, yes,

I miss the physicality of it. It's a different game and it's a fun game because it's skilled. But that's one thing you love about the playoffs is guys who aren't generally physical will get physical. And you brought up Nylander, so, you know, I think what the thing with Nylander, I think which can drive some people mad in Leaf Nation is, you know, we saw what he did in the World Championships after Leafs got eliminated last

year, and he's throwing his body around like a real heavyweight, and you kind of go, wow, I'd love to see that passion on a night-to-night basis with the Leafs as well. So I think that's the thing. I think Nylander, he's tantalizing with his talent, but sometimes you just want it on a more consistent basis, which I think is a fair thing to ask.

Kind of like Kovalev, right? Like Anson Carter on our show that Kipper hasn't seen on Monday night, Rodgers Monday Night Hockey, says that Kovalev's the best player he's ever played with. He's a talented guy. Yeah. And it was like, know, he said he's the most talented. Yeah. And it was like, wow, imagine, you know, if he had that light on every night what he could be.

And I think that's somewhat the same take on Nylander. And he's had a great year. This has been his most consistent year by a long shot. So it's official now on Monday nights you want big hits. You're fine with big hits as long as they're within the rules and regulations of what we've been accustomed to over the last 40, 50 years. Kepa, I'll forego the hits for your viewership on this upcoming Monday. But, you know, sometimes I drive by your house and I watch you.

I mean, that's how much I love you. Honestly. You're the one with the binoculars. Oh, man. Oh, man. No, it's great. Don't be such a stranger on our show, okay? Yeah, anytime, guys.

I really appreciate bringing me on, and it's been a lot of fun. Honestly, like, I listen to the show a lot, and the Leafs. It's tough to do radio when the team's doing so well. You almost want a loss mixed in, right? Because it makes it easier. Not us. We can drum up our own business over here. Look at this guy.

You trying to get me in trouble again? No, man. It's been fun to watch. And you know what? I hope Marner, like, how cool would it be if he can somehow get another 10, 15 games? Like, I love the records getting broken. not just OV, but all these records. It would be so cool if somehow Marner can just keep this going for another few weeks and we start talking about one of the greatest

point streaks in NHL history, which would be just awesome. So you're going from the OV prediction a few years ago to now Marner will break Gretzky's record of 51 consecutive games, getting a point. I'm not, I'm not saying that I'm not saying that I'm going to hold off on that one for a little bit.

I'll say it. He's breaking it before DA gets off. I want to make sure that he knows I'm not talking about his back. When I say that the, the OV 1000 thing is the most insane thing I've heard in a long time. That's not, I didn't want you to think I was talking about you behind your back, because that's an insane thing to say.

No, please stamp this show, because I had Doug and Elliot and Kelly Rudy and Nick all, like, literally laughing my face to the point I had to, like, kind of leave with my tail. No, I think it was what you were wearing that night. Nothing to do with what you said. Oh, man. Well, listen, I haven't done it yet.

I don't think a thousand's crazy, but again, maybe that's me just thinking he has the desire to do that. He played until he was 45? I feel like he's going to hit a wall. Look at the build of that man. He's got to just slow down. I was you two and a half years

ago, three years ago. Father time is undefeated. Ovi's not going to be like 60. We can't believe it. He never slowed down. It's coming, guys. It's coming. Justin, you're a math guy. You're a math guy. I am. 25 this year, he needs 175. 40 next year, I'm talking to a thousand

here. 40 next year, he needs 175. 40 next year, I'm talking to 1,000 here. 40 next year, he needs 135. You know, like, kind of he plays five more seasons. Listen to the ease with which, like, 40 next year, like 40 goals at age whatever he's going to be, it's a huge number. He shoots the puck. I know he shoots it in the net a lot, and he's going to keep shooting it in the net.

Yeah, he's going to, he just has to stay healthy and he has to have the passion that you watch when he practices as if he's scoring his first goal ever he he it's it's not waning is he gonna well but it will is he going to hold the capitals hostage and be like you have to keep me around during the years i'm getting 22 goals and not contributing defensively because I'm chasing these records. For sure. You say hostage, he puts butts in the seats. I mean, I think if a guy's pursuing a thousand goals

that's going to be entertaining in its own right. I don't know. I mean, listen, that could be a horrible take, but it wouldn't shock me. I guess I'm just going to throw that out there. Yeah, I'm past the shock too. He's just a freak of nature. I give him that he's getting Nagratsky. He's just a, he's just, he's 37,

and he's up against 24-year-olds and not looking at his place. I guess it's like a bit of a castle thing where I look at the guy, and I'm like, you know, he just looks like he's got the gray hair and his, like, beer belly, and he's just, well, not really beer belly, but you know what I mean? Here's what you need to know. He's played 17 seasons. He's missed 47 games. The majority of those have been for suspension.

Yeah. So, I say that. I might be wrong. And he hits. Yeah. And he, yeah, he's, it's, he's different. He's a different guy. Of course he is.

He's the best goal scorer of all time. He's not Kessel avoiding different. He's a different guy. Of course he is. He's the best goal scorer of all time. He's not Kessel avoiding it. He's going after it. He's the aggressor most nights. I think that that doesn't come back at some point. I don't know. It's unbelievable. I know it is.

It is unbelievable, and he deserves. Okay, we'll let you get back to your prep work for Monday night. He deserves. Aiden Kemper, what's the name of the show? It's called Monday Night with David Amber. With Roger. Roger Amber on David's Night Hockey. I'll have to try and rename it.

All right. Roger's Monday Night Hockey, right? There it is. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. There you go. David Amber and the crew. All right, guys. Have a great night.

Thanks, David. All right. Thanks, man. Oh, he's got Keith Yend yendall on it cassie campbell yeah anson carter and anson carter it's great show perfect see i didn't screw it up i don't know i know and yeah i believe you i borny i agree with you that thousand stupid it's i mean we're talking about so i honestly i still even think like everyone's just no he's gonna score 94 more goals i know i know i know if he stays healthy i know we do not agree that's part of the if yeah that's of course that's you listen to da he just

said you know two years from now he said november 2024 you know he thinks we're, you know, doing that. I think we're in the ballpark. Okay. So that's a hundred goals from now in two years. That's 50 goals a year. He's, he's. As a pace. Yeah. You think he's going to keep scoring at that pace? Sorry. I know it's 90.

Even if it's 35, 37, he's in the ballpark of November, December, January, the following year. I think, you know, at the end of that year, maybe you're talking, is he going to get it in the last games of the year? I just don't see him falling off the face of the earth here in the next 18 to 24 months. I don't. And I thought I would two and a half, three years ago,

but now it's that much closer and he's doing it without Backstrom, which to me is the most, I think, amazing thing. I mean, historically, Yari Curry with Gretzky, Bossy with your father-in-law, and Trache, like it's's you need big people around you and yet he looks like no just somebody get me the puck you know and i'll be fine most goals in nhl history his last year he scored nine you know like there's it gets to a point where you just you're not the guy

you were compared to the league i don't even think the greatest of all time but from a from a pure physical thing yeah gretz's body was way more capable of quitting on him than ovies is i don't know about that i don't know i don't know he's just carrying so much weight so they're not saying he's strong. He's a bull. I know he is. Gretz is last year. He's still 62 points in 70 games. Yeah, I know.

Was it 9 and 53? And that's not good enough for him. No, but still. I'm fucking goal scoring. Yeah. I just, like I said, I'm still not even convinced he's breaking. Gretz. I'm still not ready to go there.

There's a lot of goals left. There's a lot of goals. But it is ovi and he is near the league league and goals so i should probably stuff i've just i was on your side two and a half years ago trust me i was come on can he stay healthy i actually did this same take to da year a couple years ago about how he wasn't going to get to gretzky so i'm going to eat that one so i just it's funny though because you were mentioning about what they're gonna let him just this is their whole destiny now probably right that they're just

gonna be well is that what they want to be though the team would just like but after all that he's given to them how could they not well because they don't have to because they want to win championships and they don't have to if they but they're probably we all talk about how they're on the downside of this like it's kind of flipping like the window's closing. To me, if you or Ted Lee owns this, this is like the ideal scenario. I think it comes back to will Ovi come back? Will he play out those twilight years in the chase for whatever the number is? Is it $1,000 for less than $10 million?

Last year he signed five years, was it? I think he's got three years after this year at nine and a half per season uh news coming in trevor moore former toronto maple leaf uh he went oh he's made 137 trevor moore was in the muzzin deal or was he in the campbell deal i honestly don't know sammy i don't know i can't keep track of it doesn't even matter to me they went that way these players came this way it doesn't really matter i just know because it was it was grunstrom dersey and a first round pick for muslin so it was campbell it was campbell yep uh he signed a the official word is uh 4.2 million for five years 4.2 per year for five years. Whoa.

We had more on. That's a big. That's a big ticket. Ticket. Oh, my God. Michael Bunting's eyes just went. Oh, that's a good point. That's exactly where I was going with.

That's such a good point. So, I think Bunting has probably three or four more points than him. I think Moore probably plays more minutes than him. Maybe penalty kill? I don't know. I'll look it up. Moore was with the Marlies when I was there. I gotta think Bunting's looking at that deal and going

really happy for you, pal. Senator of the tax, congratulations on that one. So happy for you and your family we had more on uh hockey central a couple years ago and i remember saying to him send a two-year deal 700 grand each like just got to know what's it feel like to you know sign for that much money going from he's making in the minors like 50 a year to making 700 and he was

like i don't know like you know i i want he basically said i wanted to play for this contract he's like i want you know i want the real money i want the and this is this is it for him he's got it not sure that he's that guy for the the kings he's got seven goals in 32 games this year so far more than points 18 to bunting's 21 yeah so he plays i'm just looking up his time on ice here 18 18 17 16 13 like he's just kind of yeah yeah no never over 20 a couple times over 20 i'm just looking for his average here probably averages 17 and a half to bunting's 15 so i would put that as uh the only thing uh he does more than bunting would be probably killing penalties. So what kind of pace is bunting on?

Pace to play himself out of Toronto? I'm just wondering, like, you know, if bunting ends up with 50 points, which is probably very likely. Yeah, last year Moore had 17 goals and 48 points and Bunting had what 20 and 60 some I don't I don't know but you know we talked about it yesterday Bunting's

next contract did we not a day before and you kind of were more under the impression it was like a three million dollars a year type of deal well I'm looking at Trevor Moore and if I'm bunting and his rep that's my ballpark let me go ahead and say this that's an overpay that's not a very good contract that's an overpay like shout out to trevor moore it's great you got it it's awesome yeah but that's

not a good contract expensive expensiveensive. Expensive. Yeah. Like, is he going to have better years? They love him there, though, boys. They absolutely. Okay. They love him. Great. They love Bunting here, but I don't think they're giving him $20 million.

Would they give him that deal? Would you sign Michael Bunting to that contract? No, I don't think he's driving the bus, right? The benefits he reaps playing by Matthews for two years. Woo! He's on the cover of Glory magazine. Glory. Glory.

I like Bunting at three or four years. I do. Sure. What do you think you're going to get him for? Two and a half? Three and a half now. Three and a half three and a half now three and a half i think three at three for four would be ideal but that won't happen are you losing him at three and a half to another team probably wouldn't you think i do think the

market here drives up prices for guys because it's just the names come up so much more right publicly you're well aware that ilya mikhayev does x you know whereas you're not as aware that a player on some other team's third line does y potentially why they were able to sign michael bunting for nine hundred thousand dollars see the problem is is what do you think you're going to replace him for to fill in 50 points so it's yeah you're gonna go find another 750 you're gonna go find another bunting now to put up 100 points over two years for the grand total of 1.5 million dollars 1.8 i don't know what he's making 800 a year yeah it's hard yeah it's hard and i know kyle's got a little bit of magic in that like but it's hard yeah the finding inefficiencies is not not an easy job and people uh you know those players don't exist out there i mean the odd one does but not many and i think

bunting's a better player today than what i saw a lot when he scored 61 i think he's smarter i think he's stronger i think he's making better plays outside of that six foot radius in front of the net i think he's starting to really understand that that battles are won in key games anywhere within six feet off the wall. Inside his blue line, outside the blue lines. He's making some nice plays for me. If I have a team and I'm missing a winger and they say, okay, there's Trevor Moore or Michael Bunting. Pick one for your hockey team.

Pick and Bunting. I agree. And I like Trevor Moore. I know, but to me, Bting's responded two years in a row to the demotion right because we because last year he got demoted to where he started low and then he kind of worked his way back up into the lineup he started high this year with marners and matthew because that line had so much success and then he got put down in the fourth line remember he put the bottom six and then ever since that kind of happened he's flipped back into

being what he was last year so he's responded to it twice he's had a couple good like he's really good right now yeah yeah really smart and a little less drama yeah i'm not seeing as much as uh as uh woe is me slow uh slow back up off his feet the stare down to the official that's kind of gotten cleaned up a little bit still here and there still yep well i mean it's a better he is which is never not going to be there yeah exactly so there's a lot of there's a lot of good stuff that sheldon's been able to do uh with a few players including bunting here yeah on this stretch and we'll get to sample it again tonight against the New York Rangers. Playing the Rangers.

So the Maple Leafs improved to 12-0-3 in their last 15, dating to November 12th, and moved within one game of matching the franchise record for the longest point streak. A mark set from the November 22nd, 2603. Our good friend Jim Ralph was just in here, and he told me that Matt Sundin scored the winner in overtime. Was that Jim Ralph that was in here?

Yeah, I saw you giving a nice hug to someone. Yeah. Me and him worked together a long time on the broadcast. One of the best guys. You should have just brought him in. You guys were talking to Amber. I would have dumped Amber for Jimmy Ralph. Oh, come on now.

There's enough Mike no around yeah there would it would have been great with uh you know we could have had amber and ralphie talking i could have gone for coffee i like coffee too and leave amber and ralphie i'm actually starving to death boys i think it might be time to end the show early today well well you know while we're talking about letting other people talk we have sheldon keith clips on pierre engvall and david camp who've been very good when they're paired up they're a good line why don't we talk about some depth scoring for the the leafs here and talk about engvall and camp i mean anytime engvall and cap have been together that's been a successful

pair for us a lot really who's been on the other side. Kerfoot's speed and his own diligence defensively, I think, gives us three guys there that can really defend well and make it hard on the opposition. It's nice to see them get some reward the other night offensively, but really the hallmark of that line is how they defend and how they transport the puck up the ice, and all three players, I think, are strong at that, no matter what line they're on.

Now, what I'm going to watch for tonight in the game is exactly what he's talking about, because the Leafs have turned into, once again, a dangerous team off the rush. And think about those first three weeks where we were just scratching scratching our heads going, what are we watching here? How many of those hail Mary,

a 50 footers that we saw in the first three weeks, it's been cleaned up. Yeah. Really cleaned up nicely. Yeah. No, they're, they're definitely a lot more short support skated out of their own end

pretty well. They, and the Rangers in the last four games have done a better job. And I did watch Rangers Jersey and we believe that the Devils have been the best rush team in the league this year.

And the Rangers found a way as the game progressed to really shut that down. And I think if you look over the last three or four games, Colorado, Vegas, the Rangers, that down and i think if you look over the last three or four games uh colorado vegas the rangers these wins they've done a nice job of taking away rush chances here so i'm really going to be intrigued to see what kind of room the leafs have in the neutral zone tonight yeah that's you

know and we really get a true sense of how the Leafs are going to look in playoffs, our expectations for them when they play teams like this, right? Because that's a much more accurate assessment of how playoff games look when you play teams that, you know, clog it up through the middle of the ice and do the things the Rangers have been doing. A much better team than I think they're, where their place is in the standings. Just pulling up their rush stats here for you. Oh, you have rush stats i do cool yeah the old i don't know about he's got a million web pages here i wouldn't know where to look for any of this stuff honestly that's my favorite i'll be like morning can you look this

up for me he's like no problem click click click click push my glasses up my nose pocket uh protector yeah they're uh they are a team who has given up rush chances this year but better Push my glasses up my nose. Pocket protector. Yeah, they are a team who has given up rush chances this year, but better in their last five games. So seem to be tightening things up. The Leafs, by the way, are good at just about everything except rush chances against. They give up quite a few rush chances still. So I don't know that I've seen that as much lately.

Actually, in the last five games. All right. What else? We got a couple minutes here. Also on my itinerary, compliments of Sammy. Barry Trotz on Darren Millard, my buddy Darren Millard's podcast, I think The Chirp. Correct.

Barry Trotz said, not likely to coach this season. Oh. What a change of tone, Mr. Trotz. What a change of tone. Did you hear, did you watch or listen to this? I just read the quotes. Oh, you just read the quotes. Was there a reason why?

Did he give a reason why? It's funny to me. I just put it in there because, yeah, there's a reason why. Because the Leafs are red hot and he wants to coach the Leafs. That job is not opening up anytime soon. Yeah. Unless they lose in playoffs. Yeah.

Do you want me to read it to you or do you care? Well, there's more to it. Well, I can read you the quotes from the clip if you want. I'd love it. Okay, I'm just pulling it up here. Okay. While we're doing that, do you want a Riley update or do you not want the Riley update? Do you want to know what's going on? I will save Riley tomorrow. will save riley tomorrow he's not playing anytime here's the update he's skating

he's not he's gonna he's ready to skate he's not gonna play anytime soon so generally that means seven to ten days yeah i think in the new year you'll see riley as soon as i'm deciding there's a couple teams that reached out to me and i said i'm not there yet i'm probably gonna take the rest of the year off and see where I am it's still a part of me but I'm continue to stay true to myself and my family right now so there you go that's nice so the difference between likely and just not to coach this season is an offer I can't review the job hasn't come up right it's like every boxer or UFC fighter who retires until someone pays him a boatload. Yeah.

Oh, I'm retired. I'm not looking for anything. Tom Brady did. Tom Brady. It's going to cost a lot to get me to come play or to come coach. There's always the smart stance to take. What are you not likely to do in the next little while? I'm not likely to come back and play at my age of 56. You don't think so? What are you not likely to do in the next little while? I'm not likely to come back

and play at my age of 56. What are you not likely to do? I'm not likely to write another book anytime soon. That was a lot of work. We've talked tonight, me and Borny, after the final whistle. You guys will have a lot tonight. I can't wait. It'll be a great game. I love watching games at MSG.

It'll be a great show. Not as good as this one. Barely. But it'll be okay. Thanks, Kip. We appreciate it. Fast two hours, everyone. We really appreciate you being around for all of it. Our thanks to Mark Messier, David Amber, and Luke Fox.

Good show. From Sportsnet.ca. Stay safe, everyone. We're back again tomorrow to wrap up Rangers and the Leafs.