Real Kyper & Bourne - Matthews Back in a Goal-Scoring Groove

Episode Date: March 24, 2023

Justin Bourne and Brent Gunning open with last night's Leafs' win against the Florida Panthers, Auston Matthews looking like himself, finally getting a look at the 5-on-3 powerplay, Erik Gustafsson running the powerplay and Morgan Rielly being a healthy scratch. They are joined by JD Bunkis, who discusses the Leafs' goaltending situation, which goalie would be better suited for playoff-intensity hockey, Sheldon Keefe's odd lineup experiments, the wait for Matthew Knies and who will be the 13th man on offence (41:04). Then, Bally Sports' Hurricanes analyst Tripp Tracy joins the show (1:06:40) to discuss the team ahead of their game against the Leafs tomorrow. He shares his thoughts on the state of the 'Canes after Andrei Svechnikov's injury, the team's defensive acumen, their demanding schedule down the stretch and if they can remain contenders within a loaded Eastern Conference. The guys close by answering some listener questions.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Welcome to Real Kipper and Born featuring Brent Gunning once again. Gunner, how are ya? New Kipper dropped, as the guys in the Raptors show like to say. There we go. New Kipper just dropped. I love it. Here he is. You know, coming off a wonderful evening for Toronto Maple Leafs fans, for the Toronto Maple Leafs team.

Pretty surgical win over the Florida Panthers. Shout out to our people working on the other side of the glass today. We got the usual crew. Derek Brandeo, David Siss, Tristan Markajani filling in for our boy, Sam McKee, who just sent a picture of himself playing golf in Arizona. Not jealous one bit. Nope. Nope.

I also got a picture of Kipper drinking a margarita. The text was received at a time that was AM. Lovely. Things are going well for those two guys, but they didn't get to soak in the wind the same way that you and I did. You know, let's go with the initial takeaways from a lovely night for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Austin Matthews is so back. He's back, baby. Look, we're going to do hot, hot Morgan Riley discourse, okay? That's where I want to start, though. Austin Matthews. The two goals are great, and I had to ask myself, is it just confirmation bias that that's why I'm liking what I saw because the puck went in the net twice? The play play that jumps out to me though from from the game last

night was late in the third period probably about halfway through the third and a panther is breaking out of their their offensive zone and he just hunts them down from behind quick stick lift goes in one-handed chance and that is just the vintage matthews that we saw so much of last year so that's the one that's where i want to start he looks so impressive the fact that i mean you know his wrist shot hasn't suffered this year but it seeing it go in from distance is kind of nice for him then he gets the one where he's just so big and strong he could have had others he had a bunch of great looks that's where that's my biggest takeaway yeah how good he looked couldn't agree more um you know the the play you mentioned where he hunts a puck down and he gets skating

that skating part is the piece to me that i was like there it is yep that's what i've been looking for when i've been on this show all year long and i'm saying i don't know matthews i just not quite seeing it and i've been feeling bad saying it that's what i've been waiting to see and it's the crossovers the few first few steps challenging to the inside you know him continuing to lean on the guy to get the one-hand shot it was like okay you know we we've got something here and he's you know that's only his fourth multi-goal game of the season last year he had how many 15 i think him and dry sidle tied for the league lead so he had 15 multi-goal games that's his fourth this year but coming at the right time here i think that's six goals in eight

games we're starting to see that sort of vibe where you go okay you know when you get into the postseason that's that's the version of me you want to see yeah it's just really really encouraging and again it's not just about the goals it's all the other stuff and we have to also mention the panic inducing moment that i suffered late in that game when you looked hurt yeah uh the idea of him having that game and then exiting it hurt, that would have been so Leafs it hurts for me personally. So I was very happy that he just got hit in the pills and easy for me to say that that's all that happened there.

But man, that was panic inducing because right away they go on the broadcast too. That looks like a wrist and it did the way he was hunched over. And obviously with his shooting finally rolling around, you didn't want that to happen. So that I'm, I cannot, I cannot explain how happy I am that that was just him in the worst area.

Yeah. Well, there's nothing funnier to me than the broadcast, like zooming in on him to like, see if he shows you where he's hurt and he just grabs the sack. And it's right here. He looked like me in the cart after the fifth hole like let me just get things back in order just here um but yeah good to see him doing well um and it was

i think a lot of the things that you wanted to see for the maple leafs as they ramp up towards the playoffs you know we we saw last night um encouraging defensive play uh better play for neilander and tavarez um and matt murray looked really good too um he needs the road hawker the road hockey trapper that's a black trapper there's no way they overturn the goal call i removing my bias okay if they would have if that's the other way around and the leafs had had that called a no goal and I can see clear as day white between the puck and the red line it's tough but we know how angles work and well that's smarter than I am but it's like we understand you can see that that is not a completely overhead right you can see the crossbar and the goal line so it's different you should only be able to see one so to me that I understand why that has to be inconclusive. If that's the best angle they got, I do think that has to count as a goal.

If you see white between the goal line and the puck, you have to call it. That's why Matt Murray's trapper should be black. And every goalie in the NHL should take something out of that. That's actually a very good point. And this first time I've ever heard that suggested that any time they're going to evaluate a was it in the net or not play. The more dark colors that are in your gloves is going to evaluate a was it in the net or not play the more dark colors that are threading in your gloves is going to make that harder to see it's it's actually it's you that's what you should do yeah you're 100 right there we go um hardest goalie around and never even played

it well it's funny though that he tried to pull out you know who makes the attempted save that he made basilevsky that's that's the basilevsky he tried to do and it's like you relax it was funny because the fur at first you're like oh my god and then it's like oh i just hit him in his butt yeah he literally was shooting that out to the center dot and it hit matt murray's pants on the way yeah yeah uh but i mean he was good well really good and the fact that that's one of the two that get by him you it's an important thing for him to get going i am still of the belief that samsonov has to do something to lose that number one job.

I don't, I mean, he can't get Wally pipped. Matt Murray goes on an incredible run while he's taking care of everything he needs to with the family and the baby. It can happen, but I still think Samsonov is going to get a chance to reestablish or prove that he is that guy.

But seeing Murray have a game like that, it does make you think it maybe could be more of a conversation and with that that brings his save percentage on the road to 920 his save percentage at home is 880 okay is there any way they do it i mean samsonov at home is 929 he's 892 on the road i remember you bringing up these numbers early in the year and it's like oh that's kind of fun that was in november we're like 71 games into the year now and those numbers are holding strong now i'm sure if you go look at it i'm sure there's something of samson of has struck like one of those games on the road was going into washington he just didn't have it

that's against his old team is that being on the road or was that him just not having it that night like there's a million ways you can parse it but yeah if it is a like you know the guy you know keith do you think there's any way that it's that simple or they're gonna have a one and roll with not roll with it but i don't think that they're like superstitious that they would be like ah you know we're gonna put in a guy we think is worse because of what however there you get to a sample size where you go it's a season yeah have you i'm sure you've played golf with someone with a terrible swing who you're like how they shoot 85 every time.

They're good. I've seen it. Even though, yeah, you know, like it is a... I hope to be that guy one day. So let's start with Keith. Get his thoughts on Matt Murray looking good versus the Panthers. Yeah, I thought he looked great. First, our guys did a really good job in front of him.

I think that's important. I mean, that's a very, very dynamic offensive team that we played against and really limited their opportunities. But anything that did kind of break free or look dangerous, he made it look easy. So I really like that. I mean, obviously, even the first one that they get, you know, it goes in, but not really.

He stays with it, he tracks it, and he's there. So he looked really good that's good you know i the coach has been in his corner this whole way he finally has a game where he doesn't give up four yeah you know he really gives up one to his point the one that goes in he stays with it a very encouraging sign and with that is another key quote about them actually closing out the game and that was part of it for me, you know, seeing the way that game was playing out was, you know, this is going to be a huge part is keeping good offensive teams down when you

get ahead. And I think this is part of the reason we've sat in here over this week and we've talked about their numbers. So, you know, since the trade deadline haven't looked good, they have won. I want to say they've won six of the 11 games or six of the 10 games since then maybe it's seven of the 11 games they've been pretty good in terms of winning percentage since the the trade deadline a lot of times you're protecting leads and that

involves the other team pouring it on and you know you're in your own zone a lot and i think that's part of the reason the numbers have looked bad i thought last night they did a better job closing things down yeah very much so and i think part of it was just not closing it down there have been moments in this team and this isn't this team this is a lot of teams where when the pressure gets really tight you find yourself in a situation where you're icing it a lot you're just getting the red line and get some new bodies over there and they didn't they attacked they attacked and they attacked and that's what this team needs to remember to do and look a little easier said against the panthers team that are what they are this year than Tampa.

And should you beat Tampa, whoever else you're going to play. But I think that that's always been the thing about this team is we get so bogged down in the idea of they got to be able to defend. Of course, everybody has to be able to defend. But this team needs to do what they do best, and that is putting other teams on their back foot and making them defend you. You cannot tie the game if you're too busy

trying to stop Austin Matthews or John Tavares, and that's what it looked like to me. Yes, it was responsible defensive hockey. They also didn't turn the puck over at all. I think three turnovers they had last night. Better than 19 the game before. Just a little better. I like that. And that's part of it, too,

is that you don't have to have this suffocating defensive style if you're not constantly giving up odd-man rushes. The other way is you can just kind of play a tidy, clean game. And again, we keep mentioning it, but Ryan O'Reilly is going to come back, and it's only going to make that easier to have another guy that you can throw over the boards that you trust so much. So that's what it was to me. It wasn't a case of they defended so well.

They did, but it was a case of they kept playing their game, and they pushed the Panthers and forced them to defend. we talked about their defense yesterday yeah yeah yeah i do look forward to talking more about lines and once o'reilly's back and all that at some point but you know you mentioned they kind of keep pressing a little bit last night you know actually why don't we play keith on this and then i've got another point to make keith on closing out games yeah very important i mean we've been talking a lot about a lot about that and putting ourselves in a position to win and then finishing the job. We've had some great efforts like this one here. Obviously, Ottawa, not closing that one out the way that we did, that one stung.

We wanted to do a better job here tonight. Again, it's a great challenge because of the weapons that they have and how they play and how skilled they are. I thought our guys did a real nice job of really giving them nothing in the third period. And then through that, you get your own opportunities to extend your lead. And we did, so it was great. You know, one of the reasons they were able to close the game out is Alex Kerfoot shoots one in the net. Well, kind of.

He ripped it. Sneezed one in the net. Flex seal. Scores. I couldn't believe it. It does tell you something about the guy, though. And look, this is a team that's been together for a long time. They're going to be happy for whoever scores.

They clearly like the guy. He is clearly a popular member of the team. Well, he's a big part of the team. He plays 15, 20 a night. I mean, somewhere in the middle every night. Yeah. And it's just so good to see it go in for him. But he could not possibly have got less of it you don't think he even tried to

shoot there do you no i do i think that tavara's fanned on a pass to achari and it went to kerfoot who fanned on a shot that went you know it's one of those ones but that's why it's so shocking when a guy doesn't score for 25 games because sometimes it should just go in well by luck and this is kind of what we were talking about with stewie yesterday. It was more focused on the power play, but the idea of this team hasn't done enough of that lately. It's not that they've never shown the ability to do that. And I think the confounding part about it is that Mitch Marner, he could play in a phone booth.

Austin Matthews, so big and strong. Nylander can win battles down low. Tavares, all that. And they don't seem to have that many kind of scramble chance plays around the net and it's just the more you put pucks in that area and look you don't want to this is not 1995 it's not oh any shot on goal is a good shot no sometimes you want to work to get a better one but this team too often focuses on the perfect one and sometimes you just need these jam plays around the net for it to go your way yeah confounding that it's 25 games well and the

most fascinating part is during the broadcast uh simmer goes um you know you know he's talking about how long it's been since he scored he goes that's his first goal in 35 shots and i was like wait he's only had 35 shots over 25 games playing in the top six you know for for that many minutes a game so yeah it's not like he's been peppering Tendies and they've been denying him. The other reason they're able to kind of separate themselves from Florida in the third period where it did look like early in the third, Florida was going to start to bring it to them. They get a five on three. Finally.

And so. Like manna from heaven. Yeah. It was the 71st game of the season. The longest a team had ever gone a year without having a five on three was the Islanders some years ago, went like 54 games or something like that. It's absurd. It is absurd. So is it just random luck that it hadn't happened?

Or are you in a conspiracy theory up in the leaves? It is random. It is random luck. But I do think there is always a, you pick your percentage. I think 90% of it or 95 or whatever is random luck and it's just yeah you don't get the breaks you don't get the calls but i do think there is a five percent and i don't think this has to play with the leafs and their lack of five on three but i always think there is a little bit in the back of a mind of it's almost like a parent ref in their kids game of

like when in doubt just go against the leafs i do think there's a little bit of that there and part of it is that you have a guy on the team like michael bunting who if he was the exact same player he was and he played for the edmonton oilers we would not talk about his histrionics and i'm not talking about just us in terms of doing a leaf show but the nhl media would not talk about him being that guy but because he's in toronto and gets talked about all the time you see it like you even see it last night he's not doing himself any favors screaming at the ref i mean he had a right to it was a terrible it was a botched call right but i think that's what it is is that you when you have a team that gets whatever the percentage of the focus they're the yankees they're the cowboys it's the leafs they're the team that's everybody's

talked about and the these things are going to come into play i would have thought it would have gone the other way at a certain point where they go okay we can't have the Leafs go 70 games we got to give them one here at some point in time but yeah I do think it's mostly just dumb luck I also think the Leafs you know and just if there's any play factors into it like style of play factors they are a pass it around you pass it through you stylistic team right like they're not a two guys in front of the net power play totally so i don't know that could be an element of it um yeah they don't seem they don't seem to press for odd man rushes on power play either like they're so connected this is a lot of teams but it's like you don't even have those moments where you're just driving by somebody and you end up getting tripped like with what they don't press off the

rush a whole ton do they on their entries let's Let's listen to Sheldon Keefe about them getting a five on three. Yeah, it's been a long wait. It's been a long wait for one, for sure. So we're glad to get it. And glad, you know, it doesn't go in the way you kind of draw it out. But it's nice for the guys that come through. It's an important time in the game. Do you know who I was crushed for when the five on three occurred morgan riley do you know how much pump faking

and stick handling he could have done in a five on three would have been his super bowl i am you know i am curious about two things so i feel disappointed by their five on three for a couple reasons one is without riley we don't know i wanted to see like what's it gonna look like in playoffs against tampa bay who will by the, try to pull you down on the power play? I would say it's more likely than not they have a five on three in the playoffs. Let me do my quick Leafs extra thing. Everyone likes to talk about the Justin Hall pick play in game seven. William Nylander was hauled down beside the net while the Leafs were on a power play with a minute left in that game.

There was just no way they were getting a five on three in that moment. So, yes, Tampa will continue to do those they will and tampa is the team that takes as many egregious commits as many egregious infractions as possible and saying to the ref you're not going to call 20 penalties tonight try try yeah call 20 we'll see we end up the ref settle on six but they get away with 14 you know like that's just the way tampa is so i wanted to see what's it going to look like in the playoffs with with you, you know, their formation. Riley's not there. They go five forwards,

which, okay, let's see what that is. And then they score so quick. They didn't even get a setup. No, we have no idea if they're doing a two, three, a one,

three, one. Hold on. Do you mean to tell me when they sit there and they've spent the whole season drawing up the five on three that they've been waiting for, it was not designed to get Michael Bunting a look at the clean look. Yeah. I mean, at first I thought he whiffed on it, but in the slot. Michael Bunting a clean look, yeah. Great shot.

At first, I thought he whiffed on it, but then you saw the replay from behind. It was well-placed. He gets him on it, yeah. But another play from Tavares behind the goal line. That's where he excels. Like, in terms of as a playmaker, he's really good down low and passing it back out in front of the net.

So when we get so bogged down, and I think sometimes we do get too bogged down in where a guy needs to play on the power play. With certain guys, I want Matthews in a shooting spot, obviously, but this is kind of the conundrum with the Leafs is you like Marner on the half wall, but you also kind of like behind the net, but you like Tavares down there as well. And this is the problem with, you know, I think of a guy like, I'm just going to pick on a guy, Chris Kreider. He is a great player. He's pretty one-dimensional. You're going to go stick him in front of the net. He's going to eat cross checks and he's going to whack at home when he gets a chance player he's pretty one-dimensional you're gonna go stick him in front of the net he's gonna eat cross checks and he's gonna whack at home when he gets a chance and he's gonna be great with his hands and tip but all the leafs guys are so versatile in what they

can give you that there is no obvious spot for them it's like well math you should be in the ovi spot well i don't know do you want do you not want nylander in the shooting spot there oh and then what do you do with marner where do you set him up it's just they have so many guys that are multifaceted that it shouldn't be a problem, but it does seem to be, it takes away the obvious place to put them. I would say no team in NHL history

has taken a harder time about their power play while having the second best power play in the NHL. This is something you guys have touched on, on this show, on Leafs Talk. What do the other power plays in the league look like? If that's the second best unit and it looks like it does at times, what does the 19th best power play in the NHL look like?

You know, we've said on this show fairly recently, Kipper and I, like the Leafs power play, the baseline is not to be better than 16th, like middle of the pack, because they have four guys who make $40 million who are among the league's 25 best scorers you know like so if they just played if they didn't have a coach yes and they said you go play you have one more player than coaches no best players they're gonna score i don't know on 15

percent you know whatever so it's the to me it's like how much better they are are they than the baseline you know they're better than it maybe 10 better than it right now to me it's like how much better they are are they than the baseline you know they're better than it maybe 10 better than it right now and i it feels really silly to be critical of it it just feels like let's it feels like they score off broken plays like when they're in their formation how many times do you remember matthews to marner seem this year for one time or go no you know like it they shoot it through traffic it seems to go in they have talented guys which brings us to the power play one the first unit right now with morgan riley out uh eric gustafson got a look last night i feel like this was part of the reason riley was scratched last night not not for any reason other than we know where we're going to be in the playoffs

we told all the d they're all going to take turns having a rest we'd like to see what gustafson looked like running pp1 just in case uh what was your first impression of him on on top unit from the jump of the trade i have been kind of out on gustafson i thought if you're just going to do that you might as well just keep sandy and was kind of my opinion on it yeah i've come around i really have liked what i've seen there are all there are the obvious warts. He is what he is as a player, but his confidence, his ability to just have his head up, and he's a little more decisive than Riley. That's the thing about it is that Morgan Riley will sit there

and he will look for the perfect pass, and then he'll see it and he'll go, I bet I could get an even better one. Whereas Gustafson will make his quick little pump fake and then he'll move to the middle, and he laughing yeah and you you saw it a couple games ago he got he set up i forget who it was who tipped one home on the power play you saw it last night on the first the first opportunity they got there you really like it i just continue to go back to to me it's kind of a one or the other between him and shen and they give you such completely

different things but i don't think you can have both of them yeah like the obvious caveats that i don't think that gustafson is any good defensively um he's really good offensively you can understand why he's still in the league he's got 40 points this year as a d-man he has a 60 point season as a d-man he does the same hat trick against the leafs that's right he does the same pump fake step in play on every puck he gets on the blue line and wingers have blocked it zero times that i've watched it's the jason spetz a shot fake of defense it is and i can't really do it as a lefty but he does the clap and the lean and it's one step to the inside and wingers are just like you're allowed to

fake so you know what the wingers look like they look like the goalies gretzky played against with the fake clapper he just goes around them yeah and so it's super effective i like his touches are crisp he gets it the puck is settled he's able to move it somewhere else it's never going to be enough for me to displace morgan riley i don't think like the power play would have to be vile for me to say, get Gustafson in the lineup, go seven D have him run the first unit. Let's start with Keith on it. And we'll,

we'll keep, we'll keep talking about it after that. Looking for, right. That's, that's part of where we're at here with being healthy. And, you know,

you give Riley the night off tonight. So you're going to lean on Gus a little bit more, which is a good chance for him to get comfortable and show his skills. I thought he moved the puck really well, very clean on the power play. Played more minutes at five on five, too. So, you know, everything with the penalty in the third period, I thought he did a good job with. Okay.

Agreed. He likes him. Yeah, great job, Sheldon, though. Just like, and he made a mistake in the third period we should probably mention that as well good accountability yeah no but it is it is interesting because he's such a specialist to me so i i don't know because i really like how he looks there but i go back to what you said before about forget about who the d is look at the the four forwards you have on that top unit and ryan

or i was going to come back and they're going to do whatever they're going to do with two units or whatever and it's just it shouldn't be on morgan riley or gustafson to make the power play go it should be on the four forwards and the guy back there needs to not be a hindrance to it that's that's as much as simple as it is and the one thing that the power play has missed and i don't think any leaf fan who listens to our show which means they watch a lot of leafs games would disagree with is you'd love to see a shot get through from the point sometimes just something the old cody franz and just just fluffy wrister yeah something just get through to the net from the point and you know

morgan rarely pulls the trigger and when he does it doesn't often seem to end up you know on the goalie and again i really don't want to make it sound like i'm i'm all over riley here so much as gustafson is is elite at that one thing he really is um going to be interesting to see if things yeah if they were ever to rely on him he's he's an interesting guy to me it feels like having a forward on d more than anything else i've seen since i've been covering this leafs team closely yeah it's it's it's really tough to trust in the minutes that aren't the power play especially if you get a five on three look but this all goes back to the 11 and seven question and i just i can't see a world where they're consistently running out 11 and seven i can see them doing it on occasion. Tampa did it. We've

heard it nauseam. Sheldon will tell you. Just ask them. By the way, they did that eight times. People act like they did it 25 times. It was a third of the games they played. Mix and match here. And it just goes back to it. It's Shannon and Gustafson. I feel the same way about them both is that I really

do like them in the lineup if they're the 7th D, but I don't like having 7D in the lineup if they're the seventh d but i don't like having 7d in the lineup and it's just that's that's where i keep coming back to with the with the both of them and i'm with you you know morgan riley all the warts we've done a great job we're 24 minutes into the show and we haven't even really had the morgan riley i know uh conversation oh i know we are but you go back to how he's looked in the playoffs he scored three goals against tampa last year in the series against Boston. He put them up in a game six at home.

He shows up in these moments and for a core that we don't need to do this all over again, because they kind of redeemed themselves a little last year for a core that is not showing up in these moments to have a guy who is a part of it, who has been a part of it forever, who consistently shows up. You can't just, yeah,

yeah. Yes. And that it can't just yeah yeah yes and that it can't just be a yeah who cares no that's so important and that's why to your point the power play would have to be dreadful what's worse than dreadful yeah it would have to look like it'd have to look like they're killing the penalties to get him in there you're right the i did go back and look at that series last year and watch riley hit a one-timer from tavarez in game five. Huge goal.

See him, you know, in game seven, he scores a big goal for them. Like, you know, he's going to be a part of this thing. So it's funny because Gustafson and Shen, I really love. There's moments of every game they're in. I'm like, oh, yeah. Love that. Love that play. Like Shen putting a guy, you know, through the boards or whatever.

So good. I know exactly what you're talking about. Like Lomberg last night was starting to run around a little bit and having shen out there it's like it's nice settled down but it's so funny because then there's lilligran who has almost no moments where you're like oh love that but he's a very good all-around yes solid so they have real decisions to make what but what they're prioritizing there yeah and it's tough with shen because i i kind of liked him last night but you saw a moment where so it was the it was on the panthers goal the backhander not the one that marie should have been wearing a black trapper and it wouldn't

have counted but the other one where shen's doing an awesome job battling net front with kachuk he is not letting him get a sniff of forget a net front presence a screen a tip anything he's doing a great job but then the second he finds himself in space in the slot defending, he just has no chance there. Yeah, I didn't love Lilligren there either. No, I didn't love him. That's the thing. There are these moments with all of these guys,

Lilligren, Shen, and Gustafsson, where you can talk yourself into it. Lilligren less so. It's more of the steadiness. But with both those guys, there's moments where you can really talk yourself into it. But you see it, not so much from Gustafsson last night, but you see it the other way where you go if that's one of the six as

opposed to a guy that's a guy who has to take a regular shift yeah it can be a little scary well and that brings us to the point so morgan riley doesn't play last night and it's impossible so talk radio sometimes you have to talk through a question yes to get to the conclusion that it's incorrect or it's invalid or it's void or it doesn't matter the question is like have you noticed that every time riley doesn't play the leafs look good i have noticed this going back to the long stretch that he didn't play which was probably their best hockey this season yeah and so not saying just saying every time he doesn't play they look good so my overwhelming theory on this is that morgan riley is a better defenseman for a

worse team or at least a less talented team morgan riley has been at his absolute best with this leafs group yeah now part of this is a 20 goal season and that's the career year and he's never going to have a year like that again but if you look at the team that he was playing on when he did that it wasn't this leafs it was the bozakak JVR Leafs where they needed a more dynamic D-man. And what did we talk about with the idea or when they were playing that amazing hockey when he was out was nobody was forcing anything. People were just taking the game, letting the forwards be the dynamic ones, getting the puck on their stick, going through the neutral zone with speed,

all of those things. And the problem with Morgan Riley on this team, and again, I want to preface this all with I really like him and he is one of the six and he is in the lineup is that they don't necessarily need that from him anymore because you just look even now a third line if you're gonna have Ryan O'Reilly there and not that he's you know Mr. Puck transporter but it's just another responsible forward you don't need a guy like that and I think that that has always been the problem for Riley is that he is a better defenseman when he's more aggressive. And on teams where you need that, you live with the other stuff.

But on teams where you don't, it becomes much more glaring. I think you've made a great point. I just think that's the conundrum with Morgan Riley. Yeah, and it is a fair one. I often think of a slider bar with Morgan Riley. Like if you could toggle it all the way to offense or all the way to defense, like what do you want to tell him you want from him?

And if you're toggling it to defense, now you've got Morgan Riley, whose strength isn't defending only playing defense. It's not like very good defense. So you kind of have to allow him to toggle it to that offensive side enough. It's just, you know,

he is now at a point in his career where you have to trust him to make the decisions about when it's time to jump up when it's a time to be a part of the play in the rush and when it's time to just sag back one thing that the Leafs still don't do amazing is recognize it's 4-2 in the third period and you know there's a play last night more uh Mitch Marner has a chance to beat a guy wide and if he gets a step on him might have a chance but it's like four two with 13 minutes left and if you get bodied off the puck like there is a time in these series where great players are going to be asked to just put it off the boards and for morgan riley that's going to be knowing that okay we want that offensive slider toggled up. We're up two in the third period.

Can you make an adjustment for us? Well, and the other thing about this is who's he playing with? If you're going to play, if it's going to be the McCabe Brody shutdown pair, and then you got Gio Hall and it's Riley Shen or Riley Lilligren, whatever they end up running. I want to be very clear. Not Riley Gustafson. That cannot happen. Cannot happen.

But any other machination you want Connor Timmons no not actually Connor Timmons but the thing with Riley is that if you have him in that role where he is playing against in theory weaker competition you can turn him in the best version of Morgan Riley maybe that is what allows you to do that and maybe that's why you don't want him with Brody where you need him to go up against either the first or second line yeah love that so on sportsnet.ca right now i've got an article up on love that yeah on what is the best case scenario for a team going into playoffs in terms of you know everyone says that tampa bay lost to columbus in 2019 because they hadn't faced any adversity right hadn't faced any adversity we had the guy who

called it saying exactly that yes yeah okay well that team lost in the conference final the season before uh in 2017 and 2016 they went to the conference final or in one of those years they made runs yeah they went to the cup final in 2015 and the core of that team is there through all that the only difference is brayden points not there in 2015 and vasilevsky is on the bench that year but otherwise i mean kuchero Kucherov, Stamkos, Hedman, Palat, Kalorn, they're all there. Yep. So they had been through adversity. They were behind the Rangers in the year before. They had been through adversity.

They knew how to handle it. It's possible they had some bad luck and got out-goaltended. Yep. So you can't create adversity. It just kind of happens. So I'm thinking for this leafs team i'm the next thing is rest versus rust you know do you want to rest guys for a few games before playoffs you have the most rested version of them but if you look at playoffs over the past

three four years yep sorry over the last 10 years teams that sweep a playoff series going up against teams that go seven games so this team wins in seven this team wins in a sweep they play each other the team that wins in seven has won six of the seven matchups wow yeah it was six in a row until last year when the the streak was broken so you know the argument that rest helped there was void like the team that stayed on the treadmill and kept going had success so what do you want from the least players going into playoffs rest or stay on the treadmill so i looked at the ice time last night and that was something i saw and it's a little bit you know the score makes it look like a blowout but it wasn't really a blowout until about five minutes left in the game there so i was looking at the ice time marner just a tick under

what he's playing i think he's normally just above 21 he was 20 30 or something matthew's 30 40 seconds less than normal i think that's what i would like to see ideally you're able to have games in hand at points in time and you're able to you know and this you know we're not gonna have the matthew nice conversation here but it's like this is ideally where those guys get more burn as zach aston reese okay have fun you're gonna go play 14 minutes tonight nola Achari we're gonna burn you a little more than we would expect to and that's what I think you have to do I do not want you know if if they this goes without saying but if they need it give them the day of course I don't want all those guys sitting a bunch of games between now and then but I do I also don't want them playing 22 minutes a night in a game

that they don't need to have so you know my kind of theory was I don't want them playing 22 minutes a night in a game that they don't need to have. So, you know, my kind of theory was I don't want them resting in those few games leading up to playoffs. Like, you want those last three games of the season. So what do they have? Tampa is like the second to last game of the season, I think. Yeah. Oh, you have your sheet right there. Correct. You both do.

Yeah. They have 11 games left, Toronto does, and five games in like the final seven days or something. It's like a brutal finish to the year maybe you want a guy getting a night off and one of the back-to-backs but my point is i'd like to see it now now is the time riley gets a night off can we get you know we got back-to-back carolina nashville can john devarez watch a hockey game you know he's 30 some years old he's played a lot he plays hard you know can some mitch marner yeah he's played a lot of hockey so here's the problem with that working his bag off he does boy boy is he he is i think eight points away seven points away from 100 he has to get his hundred remember how close he was last year and

we all did the really nice thing where we're like it was 100 point season it was 97 but you know it's close it was really really he has to get his 100 points this year. It is. Yeah, he's got plenty of games to do it. At his current pace, 8 points in 11 games. Easy for Marner. Not an issue. It's just that's the one thing where it's like, these things do matter to these guys, okay? Like Austin Matthews, there's no way you would have sat him

with 49 goals on the season in the last game of the year or whatever. And if Mitch Marner needs one point, he's going to play all those games. You know, so I hear you. Yeah. But, you know, individual stuff has to take a back seat now. I wholeheartedly agree. I'm just being realistic. No, I know.

I think, fortunately, the best thing that happens is Marner gets. Oh, yeah. You want to have a big four-point night in one of these games or something. But it is contradictory to my point of, like, I'd like him to rest now and be rolling. So maybe you let them go for five, six games. See if you can get eight, you know, take them out for,

for a game or two. But anyway, Keith did talk about resting guys. Let's hear his theory on, on that. Well, we'll look at it. This,

this little phase of the schedule for sure is something we've, we've talked about. And we, Kyle and I met with the, the, the, all defensemen, I don't know what it would be now, a week or two ago, and told them that this was going to be coming. I think we've kind of gone down the list of guys pretty much here. It's been a busy stretch in the schedule, as I said, before the game. Riley just played five games in nine nights.

It's a good break for him. We have a back-to-back upcoming here, so I think you'll see more of that trend continue. Interesting that Dubas was involved in that at all. No, because he's the guy who brought them all in and kind of made the problem. So he should be the one to explain it to a certain extent. No, but I do think that you work with the GM

in terms of how to get the most out of the players, right? That's managing the people as a part of that and i know from working with those guys when you sit down in the room you know everyone the players have gone home and you got your feet up in the desk it's a frantic morning you know whatever and then everyone goes home and you kind of sit down and go okay what are you doing with lines what are we whatever like you know who else do you talk to but those guys and having that sort of conversation so i am curious to see you know where rest comes for these guys and if they'll continue if they will rest superstars

last night i don't want this maybe a little jinxy thing to say but they basically iced home ice last night they basically booked their ticket i'm scared to talk about this because my terrible math yesterday is still i i thought tampa could only get 100 points left in the season then you get two points for a win so they they're now five points up on tampa bay they have two games in hand on tampa bay tampa has nine hockey games left you know they can get to 108 would be the math now i double checked my math this morning when i wrote this down yeah you know so they're likely going to get to around 100 points yep you know something like that the leafs are going to get there in three wins they'll be 101 points yep so like they're gonna they're gonna get home ice

yep so now it's at a really interesting point where also you're fighting that sort of i don't say disinterest but apathy that comes with like these games don't matter aside from oh my god don't get hurt well okay there is there one thing left that matters though and it's and again i want to be clear as long as he comes back from having the baby or well he didn't have the baby but his wife is about to or if he does we have a big story the stalls would not like it i would guess i'm not going there i'm not going there but whenever samsonov comes back as long as he looks like he's looked i feel like but i But I do think there's still a little, for the team at least, a goaltending thing.

And this is where how fair is it to the goalies to be judging them if you're not putting out an optimal lineup or you're not playing guys. And that's, again, it's the things you have to juggle. Of course, you want to get your win. You want to get home ice. But you can't do all of these things. And that's going to be an interesting conundrum for keith so this weekend they're at carolina at

nashville who's in a dog fight for a playoff spot despite selling dead i know and to me it's the start of that austin powers movie where it's like why won't you die why won't you die um yeah who else thinks that trots i do not want to get smoked in the first round of the wild card yeah good luck give me a lotto ball please exactly so carolina nashville um you know that's tough at the end of a four-game road trip i'd like to see a couple guys rested uh next weekend ottawa detroit back-to-back uh weekend after that florida tampa bay again on the road back-to-back you know there are some real opportunities for some guys to sit out. I really worry about injury right now.

I'm terrified. You know me. It's like the games aren't even fun to watch now. It's like, just don't get hurt, don't get hurt, don't get hurt. Again, I joked about it off the top of the show, and we can do that because he just got hit in the worst area to get hit in. Right. But Austin Matthews hunching around after having the game he had there,

it's your season over, right then and there. If that's a real around after having the game he had there it's your season over right then and there if that's a real injury and not a fake one your season's over it is i mean i hate to be pessimist and say it is but like we've seen like tavar they lost tavar is for a playoff series and everyone's like ah we can't score enough now we don't have all four superstars exactly so it's kind of built a certain way and it's high risk um we have lots left we have more clips left we have more clips left we have guests to come we have so many talking points to get to which we will get to as we go to this break uh did joe biden trip the leafs yeah i saw i saw a reporter say he that they that joe biden said

something along the lines of me and canada we have a great relationship i love all the nhl teams except the leafs it's always about the Leafs, even with the American president. We have the clip. Let's hear it. Our labor unions cross borders. So do our sports leagues, baseball, basketball, hockey. Listen to this, hockey. I have to say, I like your teams, except the Leafs.

Amazing. I mean, she has the lowest pandering politician life. This will get her. I'll tell you why. It's a raucous. I'll tell you why. They beat the Flyers back in January. That's why.

Oh. And if I didn't see that, I married a Philly girl, if I didn't say that I'd be sleeping alone, fellas, I like you, but not that much. Where was he that he was getting that? Was that a yuck yucks? I'm assuming that's in Parliament. A lot of banging on the desks and all of those things, I assume. The House of Commons, I

believe. That was one engaged crowd for a pretty pathetic line. I thought media guys gave laughs to athletes when they say even the slut, that was nothing compared to what was heard there. You guys should watch CPAC more often, man. It's a wild time. Honestly, Brendeo,

I have way more thoughts on that than anyone wants to hear. So again, you tried to tempt me and now you're trying to tempt me. You should watch the British one with the guy who goes, oh, again, I could do this all day. Let's get to break.

All right. When we come back, J.D. Bunkus, the host of the J.D. Bunkus podcast, is going to join us to talk about the Toronto Maple Leafs, the NHL, and all sorts of fun things. See you in a minute. Discussing the biggest stories that matter to Toronto sports fans. The Fan Morning Show with Eilish Forfar and Justin Cuthbert.

Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Welcome back to Real Kipper and Born. I am Justin Born. We're also here with Brent Cunning today.

Hello. Hello. But now we're joined by J.D. Bunkus, host of the J.D. Bunkus podcast, my co-host last night on the Leafs Talk post-game show. Bunk, how you doing today, fella? We are well, buddy. You're hosting, eh? You're just running the A-chair? Just grinding away? What do you think's going on? Is it a Gustafson situation? I got in here and they just hand me the car keys not a hundred percent guns run the ship handle the fuck run the point let's go there's two guys super uncomfortable with doing it fighting over being mutual b chairs

over here yeah yeah we're getting by though but we we did manage to get 40 minutes of leaf's talk uh in the opening chunk here you and I had our share last night too. Not sure if you had any fresh, passionate thoughts about things, but I was kind of thinking it might be interesting for you to share with us the Murray thing. We had a good talk about goaltending and about what type of goaltending the Leafs would need in the postseason. Your thoughts on the potential of Matt Murray actually being a better fit for the Leafs? Yeah, so I want to state off the top that I still am a Samsonov guy.

But the degree of which I am a Samsonov guy is not extreme. Let's just put it that way. I'm not sitting here with the hard conclusions of I know exactly what the Leafs need to do, which some people I, really do feel. I'd love nothing more than to feel strongly about one of these two contenders, to say to myself that I am 100% certain that this is the correct thing to do. The reason why I think there's a case for Matt Murray is the way that he played last night, where it's quiet in the net, and he made the saves that he needed to make.

We could kind of quibble, I guess, about the one goal, the backhander, the second one that Florida ended up getting, but for the most part, this is a guy who faced 35 shots, made 33 saves, and one of which was very, very close. And analytically, and I don't want to profess like I'm the person who came up with these numbers, but analytically, Matt Murray actually grades out better than I think we give him credit for on the thing that the Leafs really want to do, which is, hey, we don't need our goalie to make the spectacular saves and win us the series.

We need him to make the saves that he is supposed to make. Now, there's a decently strong case that that still might be Samsonov, the goalie that makes better saves off of broken plays and who has been better from, I think, more difficult save percentages this year. The question is going to kind of come down to how do they think they're going to be able to defend Tampa Bay? Do they think that they're going to be able to do a reasonably good job of it? Are they going to be the team that, for the most part this season,

graded out extremely well analytically? Or are they going to be the team that gets outshot a ton and gives up a bunch in that home plate area and those broken plays and those difficult plays. And I think that's sort of the question that they have in front of them is which way do they want to go with this? But if you want to talk about the case for a safer play, again, just according to the

clear side analytics, there seems to be a case for Matt Murray. And because he doesn't have those beautiful saves the way that Ilya Samsonov does because he's not as athletic and young and spry and quick as Ilya Samsonov is I think that our eyes can deceive us sometimes into thinking that one guy is measurably better than the other when in actuality it's like no they're two guys who have actually done two different things this season for the leafs and net i i think you nailed it there is that if you're going to be given up and obviously no one would sign up for this but if you're going to be given up a bunch of two-on-one rushes it is samsonov i want in there

he's the guy who's proven the ability to thrive in that atmosphere much more than murray but i keep coming back to and it's actually what i talk about with the leafs offensively is i wish they had more of those jam plays around the net like the kerfoot style go okay i'm not going to give kerfoot any credit for whiffing on it but you know what i mean these jam plays around the net and you just seem to see so much of that come playoff time and murray just seems to kind of thrive in in those types of plays what do you think he needs to do between now and then or now in the end of the regular season to kind of tilt things because we all know the coaching staff and just the contract mean he's gonna get every opportunity to do it but with what 11 games left here what do you think

needs to happen for murray to kind of be the guy to be honest i think it would have to be a combination of samsonov playing poorly and Murray being spectacular. This is a weird one. Let me just throw this back to you guys. Do you think in any way these guys are going to try and play it safe from a narrative standpoint? Because I think that the case for Murray is simply this. Sheldon Keefe and Kyle Dubas, when they get together in a room

and they say, which of these guys gives us a better chance, that's who they're going to pick. Like, I don't think that they care what the media thinks. They're gone if they lose, right? So what's the point? They've already – Kyle Dubas has betrayed his nerd army with the move that he made at the deadline. He stabbed them in the heart and decided – he told them –

what was the word they kept using compete that was the word that we got guys they had good analytics those guys too sure but and yeah gustafson did uh a great fame but let's be real here what what's the point in them doing this from a pr standpoint the easiest thing to do if the playoffs start today is put alias samson off the net he's got a spectacular home record. He's the more popular goaltender. He's been healthier this year. He's been available, and when he's been available,

he has been solid. He has been quality. But if they feel like Matt Murray is the better guy, then why not put in your guy? They're going to put Murray in. Just listening to you, they're going to do it. Yes. This is why I'm kind of bringing it up.

Doesn't it feel this way? He's the guy they started the season with. He's the guy that they decided to eat the big money with. They didn't make a risk acquiring Ilya Samsonov. He came here and essentially played for free. What was the risk in getting him? He's a backup goaltender price on a one-year contract. What is the risk in that? There was risk in getting Matt Murray.

They had to acquire another full year at $4.5 million for a guy that has not looked like a champion since he won one in 2016. So they clearly believe in him. And so to me, if they think that the pedigree and the compete and the calming effect and all these different things matter and that they don't need the spectacular goaltending, why wouldn't they just go with their guy? Why wouldn't they go with the one that they trust more? And to me, maybe they still do. Maybe he is still the guy they trust more. So, again, if you're asking me from my opinion standpoint, it's hard to believe that one of these guys is going to play so amazingly well. And one guy is going to play so poorly or conversely, yep. So poorly that all have some

concrete opinion on this or that it could really sway where they just don't have a choice. To me, it's just, it's that it's that quiet room with those two guys, their goaltending coaches, Curtis Sanford and going, Hey, this is hey, this is the series against the Lightning. What do we need, and who gives us the best chance to win? And they make that decision. Fans, media, all observers be damned. It's funny. All I can see is the dry-sidle one-timer against Edmonton.

He doesn't stick his pad out on. He doesn't get around on the cane wrap. But as you're talking about it, it's like, you know, Jonas Siegel is a good Leafs writer. He seems to think Murray's going to be in. You know, I can see the case you're making that Murray and Woodley making the point that, you know, Murray makes a lot of the, makes all the easy perimeter saves.

It's far from decided. Samsonov just gave up a half dozen and then had a baby. Yeah. He also gave a really tough quote like he did what was his quote it's it's extremely understandable because he's bang on born you're the well guns too you guys have children your children come before your work but he was basically like yeah i'm worried about more important things right now than that game and it's just a tough time to hear that when everything's on the line can you imagine

babs was the coach remember i still forget what garrett spark said and he like tore a strip into him but he's he's at least that's a family man though garrett sparks is talking about how he did a good job letting in seven goals what am i talking about babs would have made him the captain right then and there we're going we're going full luongo in vancouver have you forgotten who babs is about family it's about family. It's about growth as just not only hockey players, but also men. Yeah, he would have loved that quote. So, of the decisions that

the Leafs and their brass have to make, there aren't many. It's mostly like, all right, who's going to play with who? One of them is going to be Matthew Nye's coming in, and I honestly don't know. Can we quickly sneak in the update? I don't think we've told anybody what happened with him last night sure yeah go ahead so for anybody who missed it uh his team was down 2-1 heading into the third and then they won 9-2 and he didn't get a point

so it was actually the worst case scenario where he doesn't contribute and the team wins which is the opposite what leaves fans what a loser so what do you want to see happen when he comes here where should he start should he get a chance up the lineup or no so first of all you played in ncaa at a different time and it has clearly had a huge boon since the days of justin bourne playing for uh the university yeah no one ever came out of college when i was there come on just they did i'm just saying that it's the talent level is clearly higher in college than it ever has i was i was actually sitting at the bar with mckee like two weeks ago and we were looking at the hobie baker award winners from like base basically like the hobie baker award great players there's lots

of great players that have won it but look at who's won it recently versus the history of that award. Look at how Michigan over the last couple of years has become like a real... It's become like London Knights-esque in terms of players just loading up talent-wise there. U.S. college hockey wasn't quite like that. You had any

cellars that would come out of it, absolutely. Yeah, it was just Taves and Kessel and Oshie and Pavelski and we had an okay division that was fine you guys were all right okay well then fine then you speak to this like you tell me because this this is this is my nice take my nice take is hey how could he not step in here and be so much better than bob McMahon and Pontus Holmberg and Alex Steeves. And essentially, that's what you need him to be, is the 13th forward on this team. And if he's anything better than that, hooray, hurrah, amazing,

let's worry about it then. But this is a team that has put themselves in a position where they don't have any forward depth. They're not doing 11-7 every single night because they feel like this is the best way forward. They can't justify sitting guys like Gustafsson who are having career points in their years or Luke Shen who just traveled across the country

to be here to play Alex Steves. That's lunacy. Of course they're not going to do that. They're not going to look Luke Shen in the eye and say, hey, go be with your child some more in the final years of your career so that we can play Pontus Holmberg, who, boy, if there's ever going to be a freezing takes exposed,

it's Pontus Holmberg offer sheet from Kipper to, like, the Leafs' 15th forward within a matter of months. Anyway, my main point here is that I'm in a pretty good place with him where I'm not expecting a lot. I'm not thinking he's going to play 15 minutes a night come playoff time. I don't think that he actually fits their bottom six extremely well in a do-or-die series against

the Tampa Bay Lightning today. But if you have one injury, you have one guy who can't go, I sure as hell don't want to see the names that I just mentioned ahead of Matthew Nyes. That's where you set him and you put him in. If he shows up with two games to play, if that's the runway that he ends up getting two games to play, if that's the runway

that he ends up getting, like what would he have to do to make you feel better about him being in a playoff series over a guy like Zach Aston Reese, who has proven over his NHL career that he is very good at neutralizing opponents and making sure other people don't score and has been, you know, tried, tested and true this entire year playing with this Maple Leafs team. It's just, I'm excited about Nyes. I never wanted them to trade Nyes, but he was always a, hey, you can't move off of the forward that actually might be able to replace a Michael Bunting next year for a rental piece when the value of him on a rookie contract with this core moving forward in a salary

cap era for the next couple of years is immeasurable for a team that should still have bullets regardless of the general manager. So to me, he's the 13th forward. You hope maybe there's a miracle that he's a little bit more. Yeah, maybe they do, but I think that ultimately come playoff time, that's who he is. He's essentially the same thing Luke Shen is supposed to be. Really, really nice depth and insurance in case there's an injury.

Well, and it feels to me like with what they did with the forward group, and part of this is how Yarncroke has looked in the past couple games and Bunting kind of refinding it a little here, is that they don't need him. Like you said, if somebody gets hurt, yes, they do. I want him ahead of all those guys you mentioned too, but they don't need to force him. I mean, how many conversations do we have leading into the deadline

where we throw out the D of, yeah, maybe that's your top six left winger. That does't need to force him i mean how many conversations do we have leading into the deadline where we throw out the d of yeah maybe that's your top six left winger that does not need to happen if he comes in and he proves himself and it looks like it's a thing and if there's a deep playoff run and he can build into something then maybe it happens but they don't have to kind of force him there that's that's what i really like about it i'm not limiting him i don't want us guns i don't know I understand what you're saying. Definitely don't throw him in there. If he's better, again, put him in. Hey, whatever gives you the best chance to win, go

with it. Just know that if it backfires, it's your ass. And I think the parameters are pretty clear here with these guys. Do whatever the hell you want. Do whatever you want. You will be fired if it does not work out. I think it's from a cubs book like maybe it's the extra two percent or it's something like that but cubs way or something but

dubas always uses the quote you can do whatever you want it just has to work yes and there's it's never been more true and it's really that quote better than the the chinese farmer no bourne loves boy somebody hasn't read bourne's book i know i know i know i know does it 35 times in the book i'm like yeah born we get it you spent time with kyle good you know he's got a couple of things he leans on and both with murray and with nize it's going to be yeah you can do whatever you want here it just has to work and you know they so to move to another uh decision that has to be made um defensemen who get to play for the tor Maple Leafs in the playoffs.

Lilligren has a tough night last night. Wasn't great the game before. Where are you at with this D? Can they go 7-D? Do you want to see 7-D? What do you think? No, if they're healthy, they got to go 12 forwards. They just, they have to.

I've done this a couple of times on my podcast, but I went over, I've done this a couple of times on my podcast, but I went over – I might have this wrong because I'm working off of memory, but I'm pretty sure that out of the 48 Stanley Cup playoff games that the Tampa Bay Lightning played during their two Cup wins, they only went with the 11-7, I think 11 or 12 times. It's 11, yep. Total.

Yeah, it's 11. Okay. So the idea that it's like this can work, yeah, for some games. I don't think it's the formula you want. There are scenarios where I could see them doing it in some games. Like maybe that is the way. In fact, part of me almost encourages trying to do things differently and give different looks because one of the failings of this coaching staff i think in

the past during the playoffs has been some a bit of rigidity a failure to react to something in time or to try something different because uh yeah they wanted to go with the quote-unquote horses that got them there, the don't switch horses in midstream, whatever you want to go with. That was their line of thinking. I don't think that there's a 0% chance they ever do that come the postseason. Again, it depends on the matchup and who they have available to them and who's doing what.

But for me, if the question is, hey, who are your top six defensemen going into the very first game? I'm kind of doing the exact same thing they did last year, where, hey, Timothy Lilligren, prove to us you can do it. Because that guy was one of their best defensemen all year long, and maybe some of it is that he had chemistry with Rasmus Sandin, maybe some of it is that he's lost a bit of confidence as of late, maybe he's just a guy who is wearing down after the course of a long, grueling regular season where we maybe don't think about that stuff as much as we should.

Where we look at, say, pitchers in Major League Baseball, we go, year over year, we need to stretch out these innings. But when it comes to ice time and young people, we go, no, it's fine. And not everyone's built the same way, right? So maybe he's just one of those dudes but for me game one it's brody riley mccabe lilligran uh mark giordano and justin hall and then if anything happens with lilligran if it doesn't work out he's out of the lineup game two for luke shen and you're moving forward like that yeah i kind of i i've gone back and forth on this. I think I like, obviously Riley and Brody is the best pair for Riley, but I do like the idea of Brody and McCabe is more of a shutdown pair.

And then if, is it possible if you can get Riley in, I don't want to say sheltered minutes, but where you're not using him as a shutdown D where you're just kind of letting him be him. You know, the, I go back to the point about Morgan Riley and that he was at his best on

this team when they were less dynamic. And if he is potentially out there against lesser competition, kind of the thing we talked about doing with John Tavares in playoffs past. I wonder if that's the way for Riley and the only way you can do that is if he's not with Brody.

Yeah, I'll tell you this. Just like the goaltending situation where I go, I wish I had an answer i i just don't when it comes to what you do with tj brody is i like having that hard line matchup where you can have him in mccabe yeah but it does make you feel a little too thin in other areas i i just wonder you know born what do you they've they've shuffled defense pairings, and it's so unconventional, but do you think there's a scenario where they just go, you know, we're going to just have these pairings play really situationally.

Like, yeah, we're going to put Lilligren and Riley together when we get offensive zone draws, and we're going to try to take advantage of that on home ice. But when we're on the road, we're not going to be really willing to do this. We're going to change up the lineup a bit. We're going to make sure that we don't get exposed where those two guys are playing in their defensive end. And we do have a bit of a rotating defensive cast

where we are moving guys. That one pairing, I think this is definitely a reality. I think there's a very, very, very real possibility that the pairings we see the first two games of the series are not the pairings we see in games three and four, assuming that they're going to be on the road. Yeah. You know,

I think that's a good point. I actually think that's likely part of me, like the more they run 70 in games and they play different partners together. I kind of feel like they want everyone to have some sense of what it's like to play with everyone else. And you know, it is weird.

We always talk about the idea of just pop O'Reilly up for an offensive zone draw or whatever. Pop him into the top six or however you want to do that. But with D, it's like, nope, that's his partner. You can never deviate from that. But I really am hung up lately on someone telling me that Ken Hitchcock talking about coaches throughout history. Coaches who've had success in game sevens. They were at some conference and all these successful coaches were talking about what they did and one of the themes

was that all of them wanted reliability they didn't want to change things they didn't want a new look and so it just makes me a little uneasy feeling like that these guys won't have a set you know crutch to lean on yes and you know why they want that Because it must be such a good feeling having two defensemen play half the game who are good. Wow. That is a calming feeling that you would have. Do you know how good it must have been for the Ducks? It's tapping Pronger and Niedermeyer. It's just going, hey, get out there and do the stuff where you're so much better than all the other guys.

And then Pronger's out there just eviscerating people and Niedermeyer's just ripping passes to everyone scoring, and you're saying, I am a genius. Look at what a good coach I am. Here's the other thing. Okay, so hockey is a sport of conservatism oftentimes, right? Even the other day when the Leafs pulled their goaltender with, I want to say six minutes left in the game.

Oh, yeah. The broadcast. Oh, but the broadcast was losing their minds. They're going, can you believe what we are seeing here today? Like, this is unbelievable that they would do this with six minutes yet. Despite the fact that we know from a mathematical standpoint that is 100% the thing to do. I was listening to Haral Bob Boulogaris on a podcast

talk about something like this not too long ago where he was mentioning how he's got this Division 4 million soccer team that he's trying to move up over in Europe. I can't remember the country or any of the details. It's in Spain. Yeah, his Spanish soccer team, he's trying to move up over in europe i can't remember the country or any of the details in spain that's how his spanish soccer team he is trying to stress the fact that they don't want ties that they'd rather be aggressive because going for the three points is far more valuable than settling for the one and they'd rather just take the loss and get the three or the loss and that the ties in soccer are viewed as such a you thing. Oh, we want to play for the draw.

We want to play for the draw. We want to park the bus. When in actuality, in your bad team, you should be playing more aggressively, not more conservatively. But it's hard to break the shackles of that. I wonder if the one benefit for the Leafs in all of this roster turnover and all of these lack of puzzle pieces is that they finally step away from the board or the table, the puzzle table, and they go, you know what? Some of these pieces actually do not fit. These are two different puzzles. So let's just build the two different puzzles.

Let's just go out there and use the pieces as they're supposed to be made because nothing's going to happen over these last 11 or 12 games where we settle in and go, oh, my God, those are the pairings. Oh, my God, this is exactly what you do with Ryan O'Reilly, and this is exactly where you put Callie Yarncroft, and these are the exact situations you play these guys in. I just, I don't see it. I don't see these pieces all fitting together in a way where we're all going to be comfortable. The Leafs have more talent and more depth, in my opinion, than they've ever had on any

other team. And that includes a net. Because frankly, like, these two guys are much better opinion, than they've ever had on any other team. And that includes a net. Because frankly, these two guys are much better options than what they've had in the past. A hobbled Freddie Anderson and Jack Campbell on a hot streak being completely unproven is basically the only other combination that you can point to. This is the best depth.

This is the most talent they've ever had. They've accumulated it. Unfortunately, there isn't just a natural, ah, these guys anywhere, on any line. Think about it. What is the thing that you're certain of? Sorry, Matthews and Marner? Well, they broke those two up for the entirety of the season.

Like, those two guys didn't play together for, what, 40, 50 games? So, no, I think that you're just kind of shuffling and juggling and you trust that Sheldon Keefe can run this bench. And, hey, what did Kyle Dubas say last year? We're confident we have our next Barry Trotz. Well, maybe this is what puts Sheldon Keefe apart. Maybe all that attention to detail, all the different little pieces, right,

that he loves to pay attention to, all those little minute details have started to accumulate with this group, and he feels like he's a good coach in a different sport, like basketball, where he can just start to change up lineups on the fly based on feel. And if that works, boy, Hockey Hall of Fame, here you come. He's going to go to the Hall of Fame. We're getting fired. We will find out what that result is in three weeks, four weeks' god do it just do it do it now today hey if there's ever been a stronger

case for hockey moving to 72 games it is this very moment in time i know oh well either way it's you know fun for other teams we just Leafs fans just get to be tortured for the next while thanks for joining us pal we appreciate you going are you doing cool stuff tonight or what? Cool stuff. Yeah, no, the coolest stuff. I'm watching March Madness and gambling with friends. That actually is the best night possible. Yeah. I cannot tell you how much

this means to me. This is my everything. So yeah, it's the last weekend of me getting these games before there are so very few. So, yes, I will be enjoying it. And, yeah, and somewhere in my deep recesses of my brain, I'll be trying to figure out what exactly we're supposed to be meant to talk about for the next two weeks while we wait for Matthew Nyes. All right.

Well, thank you very much for joining us, Bunk. We appreciate it, pal. See you, fellas. Love you. That's J.D. Bunkus, the J.D. Bunkus podcast. We're going to go right to break. When we come back, Trip Tracy of the Carolina Hurricanes. Big opinions and in-depth conversations covering the Leafs, Jays, Raptors,

and the NFL. The J.D. Bunkus podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Welcome back to Real Kipper and Born featuring Brent Gunning. We are now joined by color analyst for the Carolina Hurricanes, my man, Tripp Tracy. Are you there, Tripp?

Hi, Ken. How are you? I'm here. I hope you can hear me just fine. I came up to Bridgeport, Connecticut with Rod Brindamore. They did a watch of Skyler play shortly for Winnipeg and the NCAAs. Wow. The game before my alma mater, Harvard, is getting smoked.

Okay. That's not awesome. I played in Bridgeport. There's nice areas around it. How is the college hockey right now? It's a great pace. A lot of energy and offense, eh? I'm going to tell you right now,

we got here for the beginning of the second period of this Ohio State-Harvard game, and Ohio State is big, and they can move. It's the first time I've seen them live in person, but they've really impressed me. I just walked into the annals of

your former building here to talk to you guys, but last I checked, it was seven, nothing. Ohio state's been very impressive. Wow. Yeah, no, it's a, it's some really good hockey. Well, that's awesome. We're really excited to have you on.

I am personally a really great to get to know you on the McCown show the other day. We got a lot in common, obviously wanted to get your thoughts. Just, just a little overview of where the Carolina Hurricanes are at. You know, the Toronto Maple Leafs always have their own struggles like everyone else. A couple injuries in Carolina. Where are things at in Canes land these days?

Well, first of all, Justin, I could not echo your sentiments from my standpoint how terrific it's been to get to know you as well. For the Hurricanes, you know, they've had two massive injuries here in 2023, first to Max Pesciaretti and now to Andrei Spechnikov. And, you know, they're a deep team.

And what I like recently and specifically against the two games, the two games home and home with the New York Rangers this week, is that they had a complete understanding of the type of hockey that they need to play to still be a team that should have an expectation that they, well, the expectation shouldn't fall off and that they can win a division and go deep in the playoffs. And they didn't win last night. I mean, I even spoke to Chris Drury, the Rangers general manager, after the game,

and New York felt like they stole the hockey game. So for Carolina to play the two games that they did against New York the right way, it's a winning way, is extremely impressive to me. Was also encouraged by Freddie Anderson, the way he played in both games. He lost last night, but he went toe-to-toe with Igor Shosturkin. So that's hopefully a very positive sign because they're going to need Freddie to go next level, be healthy, and do what he hasn't been able to do in the playoffs.

So that was a hopeful sign for me, and their penalty killing was very, very good as well. So those are things that even though they didn't win last night from the two games they played against the Rangers, you hope carry forward against the Leafs and then Boston this weekend. Yeah, that's a tough stretch. I mean, we're always bogged down in how tough the Atlantic is. And you're going to get a first row seat at that there.

Obviously, the Svechnikov and patches injuries those are huge you know i would imagine some again it's a deep team the no one guy picks up the slack for players like that but i imagine a lot of that kind of falls on a guy like maybe seth jarvis to take another step you know he's been so important for for carolina since he's come into the league and we all we know it all too well here since it was the leafs draft pick that that got got him to carolina how important is he going to be for this team with those two injuries? Brent, the reality is with the injuries, you're going to need absolutely everybody. I mean, it's just that simple pulling on the rope.

And for Seth, individually, I mean, I'm a huge advocate for the player that Seth is going to be in this league for a long time for a couple reasons. He's fearless. He's got an elusive nature to his game offensively. Brett Burns, I think, actually said it best to me recently that he even compared him to a slinky offensively, the way that he has that elusive nature funny but but you know like it's a way to compensate for you know winning one-on-one battles against guys that are bigger

than Seth and then I think about his unbelievably likable personality his young energy that is a big part of their team chemistry and after a a great year last year, he learned, and just like countless other young players have in the league, that it's a tough league when people know who you are. And so the beginning of his sophomore season was difficult. He was very candid about it. And then he crashed through that sophomore wall and really put together a stretch of very, very good hockey.

You know, now he's playing in a situation, at least for now, it could move around, but last couple of games with Sebastian Ajo and Marty Natchez, you're playing against top players. You've got to defend top players. It was actually Seth that lost Adam Fox on the game-winning goal last night. These are tremendous teachable moments, and there's no question that Seth Jarvis for a long time will be better for it. Right now, they need him to play wiser at both ends of the

rink and more impactful at both ends of the rink than you would typically count on for a second year player. Is he capable of doing it? No doubt about it. When I think about how quickly his learning curve has been, that's the reality is they need everybody. There can't be one guy that's off for the Hurricanes to have the type of success that they expect of themselves. Trip, when I dig into the fancy stats for Carolina, looking at their defensive numbers,

they grade out as the best team in the NHL, right there with Los angeles in terms of expected goals against a lot of their underlying numbers are really really good so i look at their decor i think people know about slavin at this point and obviously brent burns is all but a legend around the league is there any other names that stand out on that decor that seem to make it is it team structure or are there some names there that you go, okay, this guy's an underrated defenseman in the league? You know, Justin, I'm glad you went there because when I look at the Eastern Conference specifically,

I'm sure that if you ask 10 supremely knowledgeable hockey people, it might be split down the middle between Boston and Carolina. The two best defenses from top to bottom in the Eastern Conference, I think in the NHL, if the Hurricanes again are going to have success, they're going to have to have the best group of defense in the league. And they're totally capable of doing it. Okay, so from a team standpoint, I think all defensemen love playing for Rod

because he wants them to be involved offensively. That's an exciting thing for them. And when you make up a team like that, everybody has to be able to escape. And they can all escape. So you look at Burns, you look at Slavin. Brady Shea has had a tremendous year, had a goal last week against the Leafs. He and Brett Pesci. It's fallen off here a little bit. And when I say a little bit, their standard has been so high that I truly believe, Justin,

and you look at all the numbers, that this has been as good of a pairing at both ends of the rink for the majority of the season as has been in the NHL. And then you have Jalen Chatfield, who has been just a super find, a guy that has been able to play both his natural side and his offside, played his offside for a significant period of time with Jacob Slayton without a lineup.

He can skate. He has scored some timely goals. And then you get Shane Gossensper, which I thought was a very cerebral addition at even strength, but specifically for a power play And then you get Shane Gossespierre, which I thought was a very cerebral addition. At even strength, but specifically for a power play that is going to have to be better than it's been in the last couple of playoffs. Gossespierre and Chatfield have been really, really good.

I think Shane Gossespierre, the last two games, as I mentioned, against the Rangers at even strength has really shown that he has settled right in. I wouldn't even be surprised if, you know, at some point he gets some time on the top holler play. So you have six guys that can skate and six guys earnestly that can score, along with their ability. When I think of the ability to defend, you know, there are five guys that can really do it at a top shelf level.

And then you want Goss' fair to be serviceable. He's been more than that so far. So top to bottom, you have a group of defensemen that has to be the straw that stirs the drink in Carolina at both ends of the rink. And they're very capable of doing just that. They're going to have to if the Hurricanes are going to be a team that advances several rounds in the playoffs. Yeah, I wasn't quite sure about the Gostis Bear ad for other teams,

but I think for Carolina, he's just a perfect fit. You laid it out there perfectly with what you have on the other two pairs, and then it just allows him to get back to kind of the guy he was early on in his career with Philly, really kind of making a difference out there. You know, somebody who's always interesting on this team, Yasperi Kotkaniemi. Obviously, he was a part of the big, big offer sheet.

It's been an interesting start to his time in Carolina there. How has he kind of found his way since coming there via the offer sheet? Chronologically, Brent, when I look at, let's just look at this season. You know, he started a bit slow. I mean, he was playing on a line that was red hot at the beginning of the year with Svechnikov and Natchez. But, you know, he wasn't the guy driving the bus of that line, but he was still on it.

But, you know, I thought in the late November, he was too much of a passenger. And I thought he made a concerted decision. I wouldn't be surprised if the coaching and the management encouraged him to take more ownership, and that included shooting more pucks. And I thought that was the first step for him. He started to gain a little bit of offensive confidence and I think did really work on his conditioning aside from just you know

experience and and still young growing into a man's body but he has played with substantially more pace for I think several months at this point and he's also played with a pretty consistent fire in his belly he's played with bites and I was speaking to Brent Burns a few days ago because he was poking me when they came from behind and won the game Tuesday at Madison Square Garden that got it back to Burns. Burns, beautiful feed to Tara Viner for a late-game winner in that third period.

But Brent, the next day when I was speaking with him, he said, over the last couple of months, this is Brent speaking, that Jesperi Kokaniemi might be the best clutch performer that the Hurricanes have had up front. That's a heck of a compliment from, you know, a teammate and a teammate with Brent's credentials. Now here's the challenge.

The challenge is with, again, what their lineup is, Jesperi Kokaniemi, he's your, depending on how you number centers, you know, if Jordan Stahl is your checking center, he's your two center. So he's in your top six, and he's going to have to be able to perform at both ends of the rink. He's going to have to continue to be that clutch performer as the games matter more and more in the tail stretch of the regular season than, incidentally, more in the playoffs. And he's going to have to be a guy that you can count on defensively.

He's trending in the right direction because of the pace and the consistent bite fire in his belly that he's played with. And he's going to have to continue to do it when the game ramps up, the game gets tougher. All signs would point to the fact that he's ready to be able to handle that role. Well, one thing I think the NHL wants for not just Carolina, but for all teams, is for the regular season to matter a great deal. And I look at the Hurricanes' next stretch of games.

They've got some tough hockey games coming up. They've got Toronto, Boston, Tampa in their their next three softens up pretty significantly after that but I mean right now they're in first in the division and I want to hear your thoughts on how crucial it is to end up there you know a slide back would mean the Rangers finishing there probably means Pittsburgh you know how crucial is it for them to really lay it all on the line and end up first in the Metro? It's a great question, Justin, and I flew up with Rod here today to watch his sons play in the next game, Klonopiak and Merrimack. What I would say is this.

The carrot of winning the division is significantly – this is for me, I did not speak with Rod about this, this is just my own view, but is significantly more important than the last couple of seasons. I mean, Carolina is attempting to win their third consecutive division title. So I think that the incentive of being able to achieve that is more important than certainly last year. The year prior was a COVID situation, and, you know, it was important, too, to avoid a Tampa in the first round that particular season.

But it's important this year, but still, when they've already had very, very significant injuries to Pacioretty and then Svechnikoff. I still prioritize health, number one. But with establishing that, winning the division for me is, I would say, quite important. I wouldn't say – I would have said paramount, to be honest. But watching the way that the team played against the Rangers,

I know they split these two games uh last night and on tuesday but watching the way they played against the rangers it it remains very important to me but not paramount i guess that's the way that i would i would assess it at this point no that's very fair and you know i think we always talk we're so bogged down here in Toronto with the idea of windows to win. And, you know, honestly, outside of Tampa and maybe Vegas, Carolina's been the most consistent team in the NHL over the last five seasons here. It feels like, to me,

the most consistently good anyways. And, you know, when you just look at that division, you know, the Rangers, they're right there in the peak of their powers. The Devils are only getting started. All of a sudden, we could look at it, and we're talking about the top of the Metro like we talk about the top of the Atlantic now. How important is it for the Hurricanes to kind of find a year to go a bit all in? Obviously, it didn't make sense this year given the injuries

and given everybody else in the East loading up. But at a certain point in time, do you think they kind of owe it to themselves to push some more chips in as opposed to kind of playing for the long run and having this sustained run of success? Well, I mean, that's such a terrific question. You know, and I guess the general response that I would have is that we have seen teams win the Stanley Cup with extremely active trade deadlines, and we have seen teams win the Stanley Cup with quiet trade deadlines. I think about St. Louis,

Washington when they won. I do believe that players, I just think when Carolina won the Stanley Cup, when they've earned it, you particular year getting Doug Waite and then Mark Reckie, that definitely energizes the group that much more. But I also worry about chemistry and how quickly are guys going to adjust. I don't know that we necessarily talk about that as much as we need to. The year Carolina won, Doug Waite was acquired in late January. I don't think he really was comfortable until the second round of the playoffs, and they could have gotten bounced in that first round by Montreal.

So I think you can argue it both ways with regards to, you know, whether to be tremendously active and when not to be. I think the Hurricanes really did try to add a big-time piece up front. I'm very comfortable in saying that. That didn't go. Then they didn't want to be reactionary. And then they did add a piece that I thought was very necessary and the exact right fit with God's despair on the blue line.

The reality is this team, to be able to feel like this year is a success, and that remains steadfastly true, even without Patch Reddy and Svechnikov, they need to be able to win a couple of rounds in the playoffs. They're going to be starved to score goals, one would think. They're going to have to get production from their back end. They're going to have to have everybody playing the right way and pulling on the rope every night. And Freddie Anderson's going to have to not just win in the playoffs,

he's going to have to thrive in the playoffs. If you have that recipe, it's a fine line. But truthfully, I still have every bit of belief that this team can accomplish what they set out to do. Absolutely. Well, listen, Tripp, we really appreciate your time. Thanks for stepping into the hallway. And I know you're busy, so go soak up that hockey game.

Go Quinnipiac, huh? Yeah, let's hope they win. It'll make for a nice flight home. Justin, Brett, thanks for having me. And Justin, thanks again for those nice things you said. The Bob McCowan podcast with you was very special. Yeah, it meant a lot to me, too. Thanks so much, Tripp.

Tripp Tracy, Carolina Hur hurricanes analyst on bally sports knower of all things hurricanes um he sounded like he might have been in the game yeah very much so but um yeah i think yeah i think they gave him when he said i need a quiet place to do this they're like what if we just put you between the box no between the benches they're like we'll give you we'll give you the simmer spot and there you go oh that was really really informative stuff um by the way you know quinnipiac has really become a program in college hockey. So this is my favorite thing about the, like, when we think of college sports, basketball, football are where most people's minds go.

Hockey is, not for you, it's always been a thing, but it's becoming more of a thing. It always kills me when you have these schools that are good in these sports. Like, you'll see this in baseball. It's like, there's this university rice. They're very good. I have no idea where they are or what their mascot is. They always seem to be poking around in baseball. And Quinnipiac is one of these for hockey.

Well, it's funny because so I was recruited by them. But when the running joke. No, I honestly, I don't know. But the running, I think Minnesota, maybe. I don't know. But the running joke was Quinnipiac was you're talking about your career was quit and pack it up. That was what people called it. It was over.

They were no good. So someone went into Quinnipiac and rejuvenated the program, and yeah, they've been good for some years. Let's hope they beat Minnesota. That's all I know. Beat the Golden Gophers. I've never cheered against a college hockey team in my life like I'm cheering against the Gophers.

It's like I need everyone from alaska to not listen for a minute but like i love minnesota golden gophers even when i played for alaska it's the coolest environment like they have the live band playing in the stands when you come out on the ice and that is one history and there there are a couple like little sports bucket list things i've never done never been like a big time and i went to school at university windsor there were like 500 people there and we were all hungover. And then they lost and we went home and we got more hungover. It's basically how that went.

I would love to go to like a big time Michigan or like an SEC football game. And then I would, the way college hockey, I very much is on the list. Like if I'm there to watch something else, I would like to also see a Michigan hockey game or something like that. Yeah. No, it is. It's very cool. Very cool experience.

So, all right, we got about 20 minutes. If anyone has any questions, you can fire them in the YouTube chat. Anything you want us to chat about or text 590590, we'll take your questions there too. So I was kind of thinking about something with Gossespierre there. And obviously Shane Gossespierre and Morgan Riley

are very different players in terms of the way they're paid, in terms of what's expected of them, but they're not necessarily stylistically. And it kind of goes exactly to what I'm talking about there. On a team that lacks dynamic players, and they have some of them, Nikos is probably, you know, we're having our annual who's the most underrated guy. He's like poking around there.

He's in the convo now, but now that I've said it, it can't happen anymore. He's out of the convo. But they have some talent up there. But when you lose Svechnikov, you lose Pacioretty, you do need a guy like Gostisbert to be a little more dynamic. I imagine you're seeing some more of that at a Slavin. You're seeing some more of that at a Burns.

And if you plot Morgan Rielly on that Carolina Hurricanes blue line, I think you'd be saying all those things about him. Now, again, it's a different role. There's a reason Shane Gostisbert makes what he makes and Morgan Rielly makes 7-5. We understand. But that highlighted kind of the point I was driving at perfectly. It's like, it's a different role. There's a reason Shane Gossett makes what he makes and Morgan Riley makes seven, five. Like we understand, but it's just that, that highlighted kind of the point I was driving at perfectly. For sure.

And yeah, you know, since he's been there, he's got two goals, three assists. Like he's a contributor for them. It is a fascinating when you plug a really dynamic offensive guy into a team whose whole thing is structure and whatever. Don't do that. It's like, do you want them to be the guy they've been or do you want them to fall in line with the rest of your guys?

I really feel for Carolina, though, because they were already a team that kind of had to win. Hard. You know, yeah, win by collective. Rod Brindamore, everyone's good. One of the deepest teams in the NHL. I mean, their fourth line has been solid all year long. Paul Stastny must be hurt.

I don't see him in there right now. Yeah, I was just looking at the lines. It's funny funny i also remember them as a very deep team and then i pulled up the lines i was like yes for fast is on the third line derrick stephan what's going on yeah they're they're reeling a little bit um and it is it is fascinating and i want to talk about the playoff races quickly uh on the hurricanes him talking about freddie i was just so happy to not have that conversation anymore well actually that's part of what i want to talk about so their their current playoff race oh no i'm happy to have the conversation i'm just happy it doesn't affect me morally anymore yes 100 points right now for carolina interesting to hear him say this they're going for their third straight division title yeah

i mean they're in there with the rangers and capitals and penguins and carolina's been the best for a while i say it they outside of Tampa, and I honestly think Vegas, they've probably been the most consistently great team in the NHL. Yeah. I mean, Leafs have been pretty good lately. They have. No, no, but I mean, like, just from the time Rod Bryn Mawr took over there, and he just started bench pressing, I imagine, just saying, catch up.

He's made the playoffs every year. He's been there as a coach. But, yes, they have 100 points, and the Devils have 98 they've played one uh fewer game than new jersey so they have a game in hand which is nice but yeah you fall back into that like let's say new jersey passes them and you get the rangers who've added tarasenko cane shisterkins in that remember him the d i mean truba fox i mean miller i say it about fox. If Cale, he should put out a hit on Cale McCarr, honestly. Like if we didn't talk about, if Cale McCarr didn't exist, the things we would say about Adam Fox.

I know. So they fall back to that two spot. I think they're done in the first round. Yeah, I agree. If they win the division, which they very well can, then they get Pittsburgh. They're beating Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is jarring, no depth.

Like they're beating Pittsburgh. So you jarring, no depth. They're beating Pittsburgh. So you look at their group, but yeah, they got to get through three games, Toronto, Boston, Tampa, which tough as it gets. After that, Detroit, Montreal, Ottawa, Nashville, Buffalo, Ottawa, Detroit. It's there. They got a chance to win that Metro Division. The Penguins' schedule too, though. That was the other one I was looking at.

Obviously, they're not going to factor in the division race but it is right there ahead of them they have a few teams in the playoffs they have some tough games but other than that all very gettable so it's it's gonna be fun these races but i am i'm with you like there is no world where they're beating the rangers especially without special cough and patches no and so you look at the two teams outside of the playoff hunt in the East, you've got Florida, who has 79 points to Pittsburgh's 80, same games played, and Washington, who has 76 points to Pittsburgh's 80. So they're one and four points behind. You know, those teams are not dead. No, the Capitals, well, it's actually right here in front of me. Yeah, they got Pittsburgh and the Islanders in their next two games. That will pretty much decide it. That it there they got that's a great point if they go if they go they go 2-0 yeah there's a good chance they're in and if they don't there's

a good chance they're out yeah right there they they have a tough schedule compared to actually they have a brutal schedule Washington's hooped just yeah let's rip it off here pittsburgh islanders tampa rangers hey montreal that's nice panthers islanders boston devil see ya i'm right yeah that's we're done see you later they can win both those games against the islanders yeah and they're still done yeah but but florida on the other hand has a lot more gettable schedule so that that's the only playoff race left to me is florida catching the islanders or the penguins come on islanders pull it together we're here we got cbj tonight in buffalo tomorrow a couple of wins would go a long way there tampa twice yeah that's tough on the other half of the

league the one that intrigues me the very very most is the race in the Pacific Division. So you got Vegas is in first with 96 points. LA is in second with 92 points and the Oilers are in third with 90 points. So we got three pretty good teams there. The Oilers in their next six games have Vegas and they have Vegas again and they have

LA and they have LA again. Can the Oilers win the Pacific Division? Well, Logan uh made 37 saves in his return for the golden nights last night and then apparently got hurt with about six minutes left in the game so who knows i mean you know you suppose you can tweak something and he's ready to go but i don't know the guy just came back i can't imagine that's good news all of a sudden you're putting your entire trust into jon Quick, who the team, I don't know if you remember, he played for the Kings. They're also in this race.

I do remember that. We're good on that. We didn't want Corpus Allo instead. Yeah. So that's a scary, scary proposition for Vegas there. Yeah. So that's going to be great. You know, the Central's tight, 92 points for Dallas,

91 for Minnesota, 88 for Colorado. Well, just on the Oilers thing there, it's like they play both those teams twice. It's even if you, you know, from a Kings, from a Vegas perspective, it's like you quiet McDavid one night and you're like, great, we did it. Yeah. You get to do it again.

Yeah. You're not going to beat that Oilers team twice in a row. I don't think so. I'm excited to see what happens there. Now the bottom, the wild card spots is fascinating to me. Very. Winnipeg Jets just just cannot cannot gain any real separation they are five points up on the team closest nashville but nashville's three games in hand

it's a lot three games so they win let's say two of those they're one point back the predators are actively trying to lose or they want to say trying to lose but they true they sold at the deadline flames are one you don't want to help them get in the playoffs matias eckholm yeah that would have helped isn't that fine they recognize that yeah of course even if they got in it wasn't going to get them anywhere but it is interesting that the jets can start to pull away anyway a couple of really good playoff races the flames all but have to win out to have a chance of this thing they do have nashville they do see um you know a couple of they play winnipeg once as well so you never know but flames are reeling all right we have a question or two i'm told let's

throw to our boy tristan markajani tristan what do we got for question hey what's up guys uh yes we got a couple of questions here on the youtube channel uh you know they were kind of spaced mostly leafs based questions uh this first one is if the Leafs get home ice against Tampa, do they win? And if they don't, are they out? I like the Leafs regardless. You do. I don't, I, I hate saying it into a microphone. It's my job.

I have to get more comfortable with it, but I don't want it to be any, any fault of mine. I like them regardless. I do. I think Tampa's reeling. I don't think that means it's going to be an easy series i think it's going to be leafs in six and it's going to feel like leafs in 17 is what it's going to feel like but i i do i like their chances whether they're at home whether they're on the road and so much of that is the o'reilly ad and the depth they have and but even more of that is just what we talked about yesterday it's tampa i just if if they wore

literally any other jersey i'd say who aren't these guys yeah you know i'm actually really happy to have the opportunity to share a little detail about this tampa bay team um that i was looking into tampa bay part of the reason they may be struggling they haven't had two days off in a row going back over a month they have played 19 games in the last month so they've played like literally no days no two days off and often they're traveling they're basically it's hockey it's hockey they've had back-to-backs every single weekend for four weeks in a row they are i mean and to go on top of that it hasn't mattered if they win lose whatever they know they're in the two three seed the point with all this is how incentivized has this tampa bay lightning team been to have the hammer down so you know i've been

teasing them and do you know the poke it with a stick meme like you okay tampa you're in there 19 games in a month they've played a lot it's a lot of hockey and they have a much lighter schedule than most teams down the stretch it's one of the things that makes me uncomfortable about about tampa i still i think the leafs win either way home ice or you know if they start in tampa i still think they'll win but i do think there's a chance that tampa has just been a little sleepy because they they've been playing a lot of hockey and they haven't had much incentive it was very i didn't realize it was that much a run of games obviously everyone's playing a lot of hockey but not everyone's playing 19 games a month that's nuts that's a lot all right tristan we got another one oh yeah we got a couple here if you guys want

to keep going uh this one is from apologize if that your name's not right mckell's uh he says whoever the goalie is if you lose game one do you switch goal goalies in the series? That's a great question. I need to see it. How the game went? Yeah. If Matt Murray has the game he has last night, and the second goal is the one that is it inconclusive, is it not, and they lose 2-1 because Matthews can't find the back of the net and all the stuff we've seen happen, then no, I don't think you change it.

But conversely, if the guy's swimming, or even if it's just he's not great and you think you have an option there then i can see it but i think it is the two goalies are so close still and there's time for this to happen the other part of this that we haven't mentioned um we're we're just assuming matt murray is going to be healthy the whole rest of the season good point yeah like we're we're talking about that like it's fait accompli and i think it is but the other way uh it's almost certainly gonna have the other shoe drop there i need to see it i can see a world where yeah of course you switch goalies after a game one loss but i can also see a world where the team hung them out to dry and i can see keith almost saying no i'm not gonna take you off the hook it's your fault it's not his yeah yeah it's

uh you know one thing i don't like about the goaltending situation is having a choice. Like, you would just love to just be like. This is what I've said about Keefe is that it's been so frustrating is that he has not had the reps of having to make a choice. There's just been a guy who's hurt and a guy who's unavailable all year long. And then Joe Wall's poking around and you throw him in there once in a while. Yeah, you've basically been playing whoever's able to go. And when you have both guys and you want to win one hockey game, we haven't got a sense for who they want.

Cause really it's trying to get someone going. We do have a sense that they would love for it to be Murray. So I think that they have a luxury and I will call it a luxury, not a curse that they can make a decision to go to someone else. I think gunner you're onto it. It depends how it looks, but you know, I think the home and away splits going to matter. I think how it looks matters. But wins and losses certainly matter. And if you lose and, you know, it's 4-3, but you play okay,

it may not be enough. They still may make the switch. All right, Tristan. This question's been asked a hundred different times. But just in your opinion, is Matthew Nyes playing for the Leafs in the playoffs? I mean, yes. Yes, he will play a game or two or three or four or 15 he will get in there at some point in time i don't know if he's playing game one i think that all quite frankly depends on hopefully

his golden gophers losing tomorrow i think i i know how it will go when he comes into the office you know so he shows up at the rink he's carrying his uh you know golden maroon bag from college they welcome him in they put his stuff down all right go get settled then come see the coach you know they'll come in and they'll talk how was your tournament whatever and then the conversation will be about look we're not going to try to make you a the player you're not we want you to be the best version of yourself. You know, be the player you've been. You know, you may not get as much opportunity. My point is, I want to know if they would ever ask him to change the way he plays.

And if not, he almost has to play higher up the lineup. So my question is not if he plays or not. It's what opportunity they give him first. And I think the opportunity they give him first might make people go, really? Like, really? Like, really? Oh, like that high up? Interesting. It's tough because I totally see the point you're saying about you want him

to be him. You don't want to turn him into something else because we all talk about him like he's this big power forward, and he is, but he's not running through people. Imagine they're like, dump it in and hit people, and he'll be like, what am I doing? Why? Yeah.

I'm good. I'm a Hobie Baker finalist i just scored 20 goals yeah and the i but it's it is frustrating or it's tough because the best version of him that you're gonna get i think in this playoffs is just and i said it to you is that they should start him in a game at home and they should tell him to run over somebody in the first shift almost regardless of if it's a penalty or not because there's nothing he can do to ingratiate himself more to run over somebody in the first shift, almost regardless of if it's a penalty or not. Because there's nothing he can do to ingratiate himself more to both his teammates and the coaching staff and the fan base than just go out there and run around. Because that's what they need.

If he can be that guy as the playoffs evolve, great. But they can't. I just, it's such a tough ask to ask him to be that guy. But if they're experimenting, why wouldn't they? The other element here is like we're so interested in seeing what he does and what he can do when i don't want to say he doesn't matter but the least you're going to go as their core plays matthews and marner tavarez and neilander morgan riley throwing ryan o'reilly throwing the goalie yeah yeah you know like matthew nize is going to be their 13th most important forward or defense player there we go 13th most important player

i picked a random number because there's going to be it's going to be brody and hall and it's going to be guys who play a lot more than him that make a big difference so and achari and achari you know so he's going to have a lot of our attention and people i think criticize us for being too interested in eyes but they're going to add someone who plays for them but yeah we can't get lost in how much he'll really play all right we got time for one more here i think we do yeah we do one more all right let's do it uh i like this one uh why don't the leafs send connor timmons down to the marley so he's not just sitting around that's a great question i believe this was the reason they had to trade for him because arizona didn't want to put him

through waivers and with him making one two one five whatever one one the next one one even better somehow i somehow i picked a number higher than both of those uh i think it's just he would require waivers and somebody would a billion percent snap them up yeah that's for sure yeah i didn't even process that but i i do think they're probably not happy with this i think you can send a player down the uh what the like uh you're out of shape yeah it's a conditioning extent like if you haven't played the professional word for it if you haven't played a game in two weeks or something they're able to send you down i forget exactly what it is so we should ask justin hall he's familiar yeah i wonder if they would give him a look down there um but at the same time the marley's i think are first in their division let

me tell you what the marley's do love is a guy who's who's old playing in the ahl who's like a quad a guy just ripping it up down there they would love to sneak him in but yeah that's the problem he would almost certainly require waivers and uh harry satari got claimed off waivers when he was a leaf last not a real name you don't no it's a guy uh and so if you don't think connor timmons get snapped exactly god we haven't had that all year i haven't heard all harry's terry the the toronto are far and away in first in the division in the north division they have 84 points syracuse is second with 68 so the the marlies are doing okay they They have 84 points. Syracuse is second with 68. So the Marlies are doing okay.

They've clinched a playoff spot. The only team with an X in the whole league. There you go. Two teams in the Pacific. But anyway, still very good. So, all right, Gunnar. We got Carolina Hurricanes, Nashville Predators. What do you want to see?

What do you expect? What's your predictions for the weekend ahead here? It's more of the same. I think you got to take care of business against Carolina. That's a good team they're going to have a ton to play for and more of the same from austin matthews it shouldn't be about one guy but man just keep looking like you're looking and don't have don't have a big goaltending boo-boo this weekend i don't care if the goalies are great i don't care if they stand on their head i want matthews to look like he did and i want the goaltenders to be capable i would like to see rest for stars i don't want to see you know every single great player the leafs have have in it i

think this is the time to sort of start making your plans and looking at playoffs and oh and i want to see the golden gophers lose oh yeah very much tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow matthew nize's team we made sorry yeah hey listen you're welcome it's because we love you matt you're not in the it's because we want you around all right big thank you to everyone derek tristan david sis gunner thanks for joining me the last couple days one more we will see you on monday everyone have a great weekend we will pick it up after the weekend We'll see you next time.