Real Kyper & Bourne - Modern Hockey Hitting with Adam Oates

Episode Date: October 24, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee react to the Vegas Golden Knights extending Shea Theodore to a 7-year extension. Then, Hall of Famer Adam Oates (6:51) weighs in on why perennially elite power-play units have gotten off to slow starts, the adjustment period that comes with switching teams for the first time, modern hockey's confounding hitting culture and Lane Hutson's development in Montreal. Later, they regroup with Sam for news and notes - Montgomery goes off on Marchand, the unveiling of 4 Nations faceoff jerseys and Sam Bennett's extension negotiations progressing slowly in Florida.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, let's take it national on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live on Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver, Sportsnet 960 in Calgary. This hour of Real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Bet365. In a few minutes, we'll welcome in Adam Oates, Hall of Famer. Guy that knows a little bit about a power play and what makes it work and certainly what doesn't. Do you think he shaved the toe of the blade of his stick down? Yeah, he's notoriously known for the work of a hockey stick.

Tinkerer. Yes. Do you want to ask him about it? I do. I just want to quickly mention the shea theodore thing yes 29 year old defenseman just signed for seven years 7.4 million dollars per year it was crazy about that is like seth jones getting nine and a half and you know there's just like darnell nurse nurse making nine and a half $7.425 million is what I should have said. Theodore making $7.4 million.

That market for blue liners has calmed down. I guess so. I mean, that's... What did Rensky make? He's a Team Canada guy. Rensky said $8 million maybe. He's a Team Canada guy. 100% Shea Theodore, Team Canada.

And it's like, yep. Would you rather Shea Theodore or Morgan Rielly? Shea Theodore. Oh, wow. He didn't take long there. No, I love Shea Theodore. I've? Shea Theodore. Oh, wow. He didn't take long there. No, I love Shea Theodore. I've been a big fan of his for a long time. And not to bring up the tax take here.

This is tiring. But, I mean, there's no way you're signing that contract in a Canadian city. It's $2.5 million more on the cap. Yeah, I mean, it's correct. Sorry. It's correct. different set of rules vegas above any other team just constantly just finds money and just like figure it out keeps signing all their guys and this is like that friend of yours who like suddenly has a new car

and like a new whatever and you're like how much debt are you in where did they get their money from did you get a promotion well somebody die and leave them all this money vegas seems to have something going on where they just can keep the gambling part they're just maybe that's it gambling and winning they're allowed to put a portion of their cap on the roulette table and it must have hit somewhere along the way i am incredibly envious of it and people hate on them like specifically oilers fans and like a lot of people i detestable team i like it i i respect it i you know there's they play within the rules they are greasy they put mark stone like they do all these things i would kill for the leaf stack like this and just do greasy things that just like they're in the rules they haven't been fine they haven't gotten in trouble i love it they're well run i like contenders every they've never not been

a contender maybe the worst jersey in the league really i actually like it yeah i do yeah so speaking of the oilers and we'll get into this with adam oats but you know we also have made it well known that the leafs power play is struggling. Edmonton Oilers power play is struggling. Washington Capitals are off to a good start. But with Ovi, that power play is struggling. What did you think about Zach Hyman coming off the first unit on the power play there? Terrible idea.

Terrible idea. I'm not even just saying that. That's not even like a joke. He, I think when you have a guy who's struggling, who's proved he could do it in the league before, I don't think you do them any favors or your team, any favors by making it harder for them to get back to their game.

You just need a chintzy one off your skate. You need some piece of luck. And all of a sudden you're going again and're feeling all right yeah i know i gotta get the engine started you gotta prime that motor i got a different view i'm like let's chicken in the egg here change it up like i i'm sure it's something that bothers zach hyman for sure, but show that you're... Listen, Knobloch's job's not in jeopardy, but that's a move that a coach would feel like, I've got to do something now.

Yeah. Now. And I appreciate that. I just don't know. You're better off as a team when he finds it and i don't i think you make it harder for him to find it when you say well now you're not going to be with the best guys at the easiest time where you got 20 goals last year or whatever i just don't think it does have any favors it's somewhere in between the two arguments where you want zach hyman who scored i

think 70 goals by the time the stanley cup final came around you want 70 over last year you want Zach Hyman, who scored, I think, 70 goals by the time the Stanley Cup final came around. True, by the way. 70 over last year. You want him to shoot one in the net, and you want him to find that, but at the same time, he hasn't scored yet, and you're trying to win hockey games, and it's the top power play unit for the best one that's supposed to be one of the best teams in the league. I think it's a move that you make. You probably

don't stick with it long, but if you get a couple here, it's hard. Hyman's hoping it just looks just as bad, or he's like, okay. it's not a great spot to be in either yeah but i you know i'm not a big believer in it have hasn't happened so it won't or it can't yeah it's i mean but i mean how many did he just whack in from inside the net last year give credit to our boy coach chippy who put together a highlight reel of hyman's goals last year it's just him whacking a ball in the mini net from three inches away it was it was one of those years where just couldn't do anything wrong basically in front of the net yeah and he's always got to those areas and when you play with elite talent like that and finds you over and over

and you get the confidence going like a great example his last game he was on a two-on-one got a pocket went to take it across the net and he's just jittery like if he hangs onto it the goalie's sliding out of the crease but he doesn't have the confidence to show the poise right now yeah zeros is crazy though zero zero zero that is crazy is there a chance that the oilers i mean still find a way to not turn this thing around and go back to back on digging themselves out of a poor start i you know i if you had asked me a week ago i'd have said no but gosh it's kind of going on for a long time here and i will say part of me last year you guys know that I didn't waver. I still thought they were a good team.

Part of me does have genuine concern about that decor. And then so if Calgary is better than we thought and Vegas is pretty good and LA is kind of not an easy team and all of a sudden it's like, well, Vancouver's still probably the best team in the division.

Listen to all these. So there's Ryan Newjigot-Hobkins has yet to score. Crazy. Zach Hyman has yet to score. Sorry to interrupt you, Newjoon, Hopkins has yet to score. Crazy. Zach Hyman has yet to score. Sorry to interrupt you, Sam. Paul Coleson has yet to score.

Victor Arvidsson has yet to score. What are you supposed to do? No, not helpful. We have. Good. All right, let's welcome him in.

Hall of Famer. A guy that knows a thing or two about a NHL power play and can explain to us why world-class talent on Edmonton and Toronto can find themselves amongst the bottom feeders of a power play ad. How are you, pal? Thanks for joining us. I'm good, bud. How are you? Okay, so the heck's going on in Edmonton and Toronto that the best shooters on the planet can't find the back of a net. Well,

I'm sure you guys were talking about it before I came on. So what were you guys saying? Wait till oats comes on. We said like that, did you? The only way we get in the hall of fame is if we buy a ticket. That's what we said. When you watch it,

what's the first thing that kind of stands out to you? Like for me, and I've watched enough of Tampa, we all have when those guys are humming. And that's another one that's out of the gate slow this year. It's almost as if they know where the puck's going like three seconds before they even get it. And then others seem to be making their decision after it is on their stick. And that's the thing that stands out to me is the pure movement of a power play. Honestly, there's a lot of reasons.

Number one, it's early in the season. I would say teams have changed coaches that sometimes that happens and the other obvious one is teams change players so the team that's in my mind uh is nashville because obviously you bring in stammer bring in marcia so great players, two power play players. But then they have to change the makeup of the power play that they had. So now you're asking Philip Forsberg to do something a little different. You're asking Roman Yossi to do something a little different. You're asking Ryan O'Reilly to do something different. So you've got five guys that are elite players and they haven't quite found the chemistry yet as to how it's going to

work and and you know what it's not quite as easy as people think uh because you got right-handed left-handed guys playing different positions certain guys play different roles now where obviously a guy like stammer is going to you know play his role he's going to go to his spot and be a shooter but now you're asking philip forsberg to do something a little different and now roman yosi's left-handed getting the puck at a different time than he's used to so that takes some time to figure that out and you're asking marcia so to play a different spot so with a lot of teams sometimes one little tiny nuance can affect some success for a while until they figure it out so how often or how important do you feel having a big shot in the power play is like i look at tampa bay's power play feels like

a little less threatening without stamkos there and so you can kind of cheat towards the other options a bit more and all of a sudden they're having a bit of a tough year toronto's another example where matthews doesn't hit the one timer they don't have a one timer up top and their power play seems to suffer from not having that big shot option. I think, I think power plays suffer from everything you're talking about and more. So like Tampa the other night against New Jersey, Nikita Kucherov was on the other side of the ice where last year he get 45

or 55 points in the power play and they were number one, right? So you had the number one power play in the league and in six games, you've already changed guys positions. So what does that tell you? That tell you that they can't figure it out. They're missing stammer. They have tried a few games with a couple of righties there, but they also brought in Gensel and paid him 9.5 million.

So he wants to be on the power play. And I mean the first unit. So now we have to figure we have to put that square peg in the round hole so now we've moved cooch to the other side of the ice and we're trying to figure that out and you know what that that that's very difficult it's difficult for the coaches and difficult for the players because you know uh cooch has played the half wall on his side of the ice his whole career so he's you know it's like tom brady like tom brady knows his options well now he's got to go through a whole new set of options

and that takes time sometimes and you know what i would say when i look at edmonton for me when they're running their power play the best connor's come connor's coming downhill on his left side and new gen hopkins is in the slot and dry sidle is on his left side, and Nugent Hopkins is in the slot, and Dreisaitl is on his one-timer side in that little hole that he's fantastic at sitting at. They do have Bouchard for a bomb when it comes from the other way, but generally it starts on Connor's side. So, like, depending on how the coach wants to coach it and talk about it

and how the team kills against them, those five guys should have the answer by now. So to me, they're being a little sloppy, I guess would be my answer. Oh, so it's Nugent Hopkins, it's Zach Hyman, it's Evan Bouchard that's been taken off the top unit. Is that a good thing?

We just sat here moments ago and said, I kind of like it because it shows that you're proactive here. You're not waiting around. Is there a shows that you're proactive here. You're not waiting around. Is there a chance that you've embarrassed your players or that you could lose your players temporarily? I would say embarrass them might be the reason they're doing it. Lose them. Yeah, you can lose guys.

I don't think you're going to lose guys that fast, of course. But, like, they have egos. They'll be upset. We went to game seven in the finals, and you're obviously blaming us right now? In six games, you're blaming us? So, to me, that is a message that I wouldn't like as a player. I think two units is a joke. Myself, I always have.

Because, you know, let's see. The game's three all with a minute left in the game, and we get a power play. Conor McDavid's not on the ice. Zach Hyman's not going to be on the ice. He doesn't need to go. Yeah. Right?

Well, guess what? If I'm not on the ice, I'm calling my agent after the game going, get me out of here. Aren't you? Wow, listen, you're paying a guy $13 bucks for these moments you gotta he's not he's not leaving the ice unless he's pulled off correct so we don't have two units because because guess what everybody knows kipper you know there's a minute left in the game yeah i'm sorry yeah with one leg over the boards even though it's a penalty now. Yeah. I'm looking at Coach. Hey, Matt. Hey, Matt, we're going to start the second unit this time.

Yes. Oh, we're not. Yeah. Yeah. You start in the first unit on a different team after that. Yeah. We're going to skip around a little bit because we have lots to ask you about. We had someone text in, Otzi, and say,

ask him about how he prepared his stick for games. So I looked up your hockey stick. And, Strange, did you shave the toe down? how he prepared his stick for games. So I looked up your hockey stick and strange. Did you shave the toe down? What is, was the shape of that Sherwood blade? So what happened was I went to St. Louis and play with Brett and Bobby Hall taught Brett how to shave the bottom of his,

of his toe. And so of course I started doing it because Bobby Hall said it. And actually I liked it because when the puck gets close to the dasher and you're getting close to the dasher or the boards, you have to climb up a little bit. Yeah. So you do that. So you have to climb up. So it would give my stick just a little bit more bite on the puck for fast touches. So I really enjoyed that. And then second half of my career, I hurt my hand.

So I ended up cutting the blade down a little bit just because I hurt my hand and I lost a little bit of movement in my hand. But in terms of cutting the blade or shaving the blade, absolutely. So is that what Stammer has to do maybe? Do a little shaving in Nashville? You also found yourself on a few teams. The majority of your career was with Detroit, Washington, and Boston. Is there still like a headspace for Stammer to go through that transition? Is it better for him to have done it in the offseason opposed

to getting traded which obviously happened to you as well um is is some of that going on with stammer and and just nashville in general with so many new bodies i would say yes um my first trade i was in detroit and i got traded in the summer and it it broke my heart. It did. I loved it there. I didn't quite understand it because I was sort of – I was still a young guy getting better as a player, but they decided to make a decision. So it did break my heart for a while. And I'm sure Stammer is sort of going through the same thing. I'm sure he thought he was going to be a lifer there.

You win two cups. I mean, what he's done, what he's accomplished for them, the guys he's played with. So I'm sure he's shocked as to how it went down. And I'm sure there's going to be a little transition as to him fighting through that. And also, I think they have added bodies. And then the hockey part, chemistry-wise, sometimes it does take time, for sure.

Talking about guys with big shots, Alex Ovechkin now 40 goals away from the all-time goal record. You obviously know him up close and personal. What are your thoughts on him right now, how he's playing, how he looks and that sort of inevitable chase at this point? Is all 40 going to be empty netters from here on in? Two-minute end-of of game shifts every game well just so you know i texted him this morning i go another empty netter i never saw his feet move faster in the last six months lying out there well don't we all move fast

with the empty net that was actually that was actually a pretty nice backhand by him. Yeah, it was. But, yeah, you know what? Obviously, he's going to really live off PP and outnumber situations because, you know what, the team is what it is. And, obviously, he wants to score goals. So, I think he's going to be out there for the empty netter. Yeah.

Whatever it takes. to score goals. So I think he's going to be out there for the empty netter. Yeah. Whatever it takes. Oh, we don't see the big Scott Stevens hits quite like we have in the past, but there's one guy out there that's doing them as well as anybody in the history of the game. And that is, is true. But now you work with multiple players,

you know, in the last little while, when you see a hit like multiple players, you know, in the last little while. When you see a hit like that, and Barron hopefully is doing well, he's okay, but, like, what do you say to a client when he's just in the trolley tracks there and he just cannot figure out that he's got to have his head up? Well, just so you know, I've already sent the clip out. I've already had 50, 60 responses.

Anytime I get a new client, whether it's a young kid or a pro player, the first thing I would tell the parents is, I am going to save your son or daughter a concussion. That is a priority for me. His safety matters. When you watch that particular clip, first of all, it's four on four. There's two less bodies on the ice. So that's one less guy you had to pick up, right? Right. Second of all, he got the puck inside his own circle. Where'd he get hit? Yeah. Far blue he get hit yeah far blue line inside the far blue

line yes inside the far blue line so he skated that puck through the whole neutral zone and didn't pick up jacob truba and kipper i'm not gonna lie to you if you if you ask the guys what i've already sent them it breaks my heart man it does because I don't like seeing guys get hurt. I don't. I don't. But if you actually watch the clip, he lost the puck twice. He lost the puck twice going through the neutral zone. So what I would tell everybody, when you bobble the puck, when you lose the puck, it breaks your concentration. And the whole world now knows, because we all drive a car, and every time we see someone looking at their phone in the car, it breaks your concentration. And the whole world now knows because we all drive a car and every time we

see someone looking at their phone in the car, it doesn't take much. We all do it. Every single person. If you didn't see it, you're lying because everywhere I go, people are driving the car and you see this. Yeah. Yeah. You see that, don't you? Yes. Because they get startled right you're not allowed you have to learn how to carry the puck you have to if you can't carry the puck you can't look around with your head up concentration yeah with your head up yeah like like he had the whole zone to pick up didn't he for sure and i think he would have known he was there he just would not have anticipated getting hit correct yeah like that's that's 100 clean hit yeah that's zero dirty anybody who says that dirty no no that is on the player you know um oh see the one the other one that bothered me a lot and i hated seeing it because i am really pulling for him as pat Liney. And, you know, I see him as a shooter no different than Ovi.

And he just cannot stay healthy. But I'm watching, again, him. I don't know if you remember the exhibition game where one of the Leafs hit him there. But I'm watching him go through the neutral zone. Same thing. And it's like, at the end of the day i don't want that guy going a thousand miles through the neutral zone you know i want you to be ready like ovi's been throughout his career just ready to shoot the puck but i

don't know what what it is about these kids and it's like you you want to come through the middle of the ice in our day? We had 20, 40 Jacob Trubas, not just one in the league now. And it was like, you're going to get hurt if you don't know what the hell you're doing coming through the neutral zone 1,000 miles an hour. That's a fact. I mean, it's a fact. So, hey, listen, I'm not going to lie. It's stuff that we work on all summer. It really is.

We work on controlling a puck. We work on blind spots. You have to understand when you're turning into a blind spot. You have to. You have to. You're getting a pass from a player, and you have to turn the other direction. You have to learn how to do that. That particular one last night at Linase, they didn learn how to do that. That particular one last night and

Linus, they didn't have to do that. They were looking north. That's more of a controlling the puck situation so that you can move. You can move left or right. Conor Bedard last year when he broke his jaw. Same thing. To me, if you watch that one, Conor Bedard, he

bobbled the puck. Clean hit. As he started to zigzag, he bobbled the puck. Clean hit. As he started to zigzag, he bobbled the puck. You are not allowed to bobble the puck in the NHL. I'm sorry. You know what? And, like, we just – the defensive guys are in good position too, right? And you know what?

You have to look in certain directions. If you're going down the left boards, where are you looking? You're looking to your right. And if you can't do it, you better learn how. Simple as that. Does this go back to, like, maybe some of the players feeling a little bit more relaxed because of the stop signs on the jerseys or we've just gone so far out of the way to kind of sanitize a lot of stuff?

I mean, are they a little bit more relaxed out there today than they were when we played, Otzi? You know what? I mean, the game is not as violent. That's a fact. There's no slashing. There's no cross checking. It's not as violent. That's a fact. So I would say that, yes, you and I were

more on guard. Yes. For sure. I can remember a few years ago teddy purcell works with us and i remember doing one of our drills and i looked at teddy because i'm i'm shocked kipper sometimes of what the kids do and i look at teddy and i go i just don't understand how they're not looking where they're going and he just said well we didn't have contact for eight years. Yeah, right. So now kids don't have contact until they're 14. So they got eight years of development, and it's sort of incorrect development.

Interesting. I don't want a seven-year-old to be hurt. Don't get me wrong. Yeah. But at the end of the day, a seven-year-old has to look where he's going. Yeah. No, absolutely. You watch the girls hockey.

They're very talented athletes, and they're all runaway trains. Every one of them. Because in their game, their mind, they think there's no contact. So they escape and they run into each other because they don't think like that. They don't think like us. They're cutting across the middle. Well, there's someone on the other side. They don't think like that. Interesting. The, uh, it's on our priority.

Every single, like every single day in the summer, one of the first warmup drills has something to do with this subject. That's a, yeah, that's, that's fascinating. The one guy who stands out to me, we talked about another Montreal Canadian D, uh, Lane Hudson. I'm curious to get your impressions of him so far. Obviously, super skilled guy, and we had quite the conversation about him yesterday. And for the record, O.C., I said I've gone on record

that if I played with a defenseman like that, I'd go batty. Because? Just because, first of all, I don't know whether he's going left or right. There's zero predictability. I don't know whether he's going left or right. There's zero predictability. I don't know if he's going to just skate the whole thing. I don't know whether or not to get open for him or get the hell out of the way.

I mean, yeah. I see the same thing. He's a very talented young man that is being thrown into the lion's den. And they're letting him develop on his own, which can be good and bad. It can be good. There's some things he does that everybody kind of goes, wow. And there's some things he does, everybody kind of goes, oh, wow.

So to your point, Marty's a fantastic man, fantastic coach. And I'm sure Marty is seeing the same thing and trying to figure out the best way to teach him as he goes along okay just one question on him because you know here's here's a guy that's got nine games under his belt he's played 24 minutes the other night and he I don't know if he weighs a buck 60 you know and I'm just saying like is is is there a chance that you could hurt the guy's development on some mistakes? Or is it all a positive learning experience even when he does turn the puck over like he did the other night? Yeah, you know what?

I think you could look at that both ways. You could. If I picture myself at that age, game game nine you know i i was a deer in headlights i was the game is so fast um do i think i could have maybe got through it yeah maybe um uh i think they're probably thinking the same stuff kipper they're trying to they're probably trying to decide like do we keep it going like this? Do we take a step back? Do we reduce his ice time? And, you know, they're smart people there.

They know what they're doing. And I think every team thinks like that all the time about all their young guys. Do we throw them in the lion's den or do we bring them along slowly? And I don't think there is a perfect formula. They don't. I think it depends on the player. But clearly, you don't want to let it regress too bad ot great stuff man welcome back to our show we'll be leaning on you a few times this year okay yeah i love it guys thank you thanks lc appreciate it hall of famer adam oats

he's thousand unique insights thousand assists and Maybe probably like 400 on the power play. Yeah. The guy who's got a pretty good sense for it. And reading him is like reading Lane Hudson. Never sure. Are we done? Are we good? He's always got more thoughts.

You can't, like, it's the NHL. You can't bobble the puck. Yeah, it's easy as for Adam Oates to say. Well, and also, so what do you do when you do? You just got to bail out on it. But, like, it's true. it's something you never think of that if you go back it'd be fascinating to do this maybe some homework go look at like the biggest top 10 hits of all time in the nhl and watch how many the guys bobbled beforehand yeah because you're right it takes you right out of what you're

thinking about is an insanely perfect analogy texting is yes it is the one second which none of us have ever done no obviously not never once but had you done it yes you could imagine what it would be like of course by the way i wanted to give a shout out jim in mississauga was the guy who texted in for the uh nice for the the blade and by the way it's just not the phone it's like everything in your car today. I got now a movie screen for a display where I'm like this thing does a thousand things. Not all of us drive the

newest Mercedes. The lower lumbar massage is off. That's right. Stop making the car so nice.'s going on man no but it's fascinating i'm actually gonna do that tonight well i'm gonna watch at least game tonight but maybe when i'm in bed i'm gonna watch some hits and see how many baubles happen beforehand game time all right let her rip uh okay let me pick out my sheet here um it's game time. I don't know. Don't ask if I haven't.

I'm not interrupting you. Okay, good. I can't keep my blinders on. It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for latest odds and find out why it's never ordained at Bet365.

Must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. What were you going to say, Kipper? Why do I not have it memorized yet? No, no, no, no. It's actually a valid question. Fair, fair.

Yeah. I was actually in a high school play i wanted to finish because uh i was just guessing on where you might go with this i was in a high school play uh fiddler on the roof uh stunning development i was i was the villain in it and uh yeah when we were doing our first showing for like all the kids or like whatever before we showed it to like you know know, the 10 people that bought tickets. I was in the middle of the first line I had. I went out there. I was like, line.

The very first line I went to have ever doing this play. I yelled line. I can't even begin to picture you as an actor. Well, I'm acting like I still like the Leafs in this show. So what I have for Bet365 tonight, any time goal Jordan Cairo is one you have to do, plus 200 against the Leafs. No, he's going to be in a puddle in front of his old coach. I don't think so.

He's not getting it. He's a local guy, right? He's a Toronto guy. He's coming home. It's the perfect storm of a guy scoring goal, local guy on a Western conference team coming to Toronto, playing great old coach goal for Jordan Kyrie tonight. Plus 200. Can you imagine the chirping tonight that that guy's going to get over?

You know, from the Leafs. Why not? I'd be all over him. You know? Yeah. You're going to cry when you see your coach. But yeah,

who's saying that? That's like, did you see the Balenciaga fall yeah who's saying that matthews i had to be like did you see the valenciaga fall don't me uh say uh san jose sharks are in la to take on the kings the shark has got to win a game eventually right no they're terrible so they're not gonna win one game all year they made a great point who was it that just waved sherry uh sherry tampa yeah they waved him two million dollars or whatever like can san jose just get more nhl guys they stink like you're still gonna lose most of the time having said that

they gotta win eventually so maybe tonight's night plus 260 if they think they're gonna stink then try to get a first pick overall but can't you help out will Smith and Celebrini? It's really weird that we now know, going into game one, who's really going to stink this year. That's why the old gold plan where you can forfeit and just start trying to win points makes some sense. That Wallman, though, from Detroit that they got has actually been good for San Jose. He's been a positive player.

Two more quick things here for you. Devils in Detroit to take on the wings devils getting luke hughes and pesci back tonight i think pesci back i think detroit sucks so give me the i'm gonna lay the juice with the devils minus 170 i think they're a way better team i think they're gonna win that game and the last one i have is from thursday night football the return of cooper cup tonight for the los angeles rams give me a Cooper Cup anytime touchdown at plus 120. And that was game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365.

Let's be 19+. Ontario only. Please pay responsibly. The Devils D has not been good so far this season, but how about Dylan Hamilton, Siegenthaler Pesci. Dougie Hamilton? No, Brendan Dillon and Dougie Hamilton. Siegenthaler Pesci, Hughes Dougie Hamilton? No, Brendan Dillon and Dougie Hamilton. Siegenthaler, Pesci, Hughes Nemech.

That's good. Not bad at all. Not bad. Okay, let's take a quick break. Plenty still to get into, including a little bit more on the Edmonton Oilers struggling power play two for 19. We got some thoughts from head coach Knobloch on that. Great Marchand clip, too.

Brad Marchand commenting on Montgomery giving him the business. That and more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Hey, it's Matt Marchese. And I'm Mike Futa. We're discussing the top stories of the day across the NHL and the hockey world. Weekdays at noon. It's the Fan Hockey Show on Sportsnet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee.

This hour of Real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Bet365 as we close out this segment with a little news and notes. Kipper, I got a text. It's regarding you. They said, ask Kipper about his upcoming appearance on Dragon's Den. That jacket. Oh, it's just... It's a great look.

You do look like you and Jimmy. You and Jim Treliving could be on Dragon's Den. Oh, yeah. You look good, bud. I'm not chirping you. You just look like a million bucks. I feel like a baby in a sweater and a hat, and this guy comes in looking like Jacques Cousteau.

I wish my pockets... Jacques Cousteau? I wish my pockets were as filled with, like, Jim's... Treliving's money? Pizza money? Pizza money? With pizza money. Yeah.

Anyways. Empty. Thanks for watching, by the way, Jim. Yeah. I appreciate you. Anyways. I thought it was a good one to bring up. A couple of news and notes to hit on. The first one I want to talk about is Brad Marchand.

Okay. So recently in the game, I forget who the Bruins are playing, but he's the captain of the team, takes the puck up the wall in the offensive zone, tries to cut it to the middle on like four guys. Brutal turnover. Odd men rush the other way. They get scored on monty comes down the bench and gives it to him gives it to him like a coach does when you you know an offensive zone turnover leads to a goal against like that's what okay

can i just stop you for a second it doesn't happen very often when it's a guy of that stature that wasn't that to me that's a bit of a a ballsy call by montgomery i think it's not coaches are scared to go after their best players or their captain on the bench like that and i give him full credit and I'll give Marchand even more credit because he could have taken it a few different ways, but he said the exact right thing. Yeah, let's go ahead and listen to the Marchand clip. Yeah, I mean, people are very sensitive these days. You know, there's a lot of, you know, it's unfortunate

how coaches are scrutinized over things like that. there's a lot of uh you know it's unfortunate how coaches are scrutinized uh over things like that uh there's a lack of accountability um nowadays because you know people can't handle the heat and you make a mistake like that you deserve to hear about it uh you know i'm glad that he said something about it if he't, we would have a much bigger issue. So, you know, the fact that that's something that we're talking about is, you know, it's disappointing, but that's the way things are today. God, why is he such a beauty? That's, I mean, intelligent answer to this, that, you know, we expect that sort of thing.

It would be worse if he didn't say something. That's a really mature answer. That's the accountability of being a leader. But I'm telling you right now. He hates it. He wants him to be a scumbag. I am telling you. If he signs the lease next year, I'll be wearing a jersey.

That would have been easy 20, 30, 40 years ago. But today, coaches, they don't want to pick a fight. And they don't want to go down the path because they will lose against top players. Higher paid, bigger names than them. But often, I think, Kip, they don't to captains because they know their captain knows. Marchand knows to not turn the puck over in the offensive zone, to not make a risky play high in the zone.

He made a mistake that he surely went to the bench and went, ah, I know that's not the spot. But it's still in the moment and went ah i know that's not the spot but it's still in the moment like as for for a player it's for everyone else to watch that that's good point it's totally for everyone else too at that moment and it's a natural i don't even think he thought about it was just a very natural thing for montgomery to. But my thought as a player that's listening to this is if he's saying this to Brad Marchand, what would he ever say to me? And that just triples down on the fact that I cannot make that mistake

and I cannot put my team in a vulnerable position or else this guy, like I'm done. Like if he's if he's saying that to the captain then i'm traded or waived or sent down tomorrow yeah and that's that's a good thing to hold your whole team at a high standard you know what's interesting is i think there's the risk if you're the coach of doing that to a captain and and to your point earlier the captain being like what do you you, you know, like, screw you, and damaging that relationship in some way,

and that can be the beginning of the end for a coach. I have seen, in my experience, coaches call the captain in and have sort of an agreement and say, if something comes up, I want to be able to use you as sort of the, as an example. That was way over beyond that. That one was for sure. But I think you do have to have an example that was way over that one that one was for sure but i think you do have to have an understanding that like hey we have a great relationship but i need to be able to speak up yeah you know you can't i mean it but it can't happen again put it that way didn't you have a story about a coach saying a mess like i'm gonna you know give it to you or

something to that effect because i i know that sometimes captains and coaches will have relationships where it's like they're mutually yeah i didn't see it i didn't see it with with mark okay um it it happens it's rare it is really rare but you know you gotta also think at that point uh there was a lot of pent-up frustration already with the Boston Bruins. A lot of things not going right with this hockey club right now. And they're feeling it as well. They're supposed to be sitting at the top of the Atlantic division.

They're in the mix with everybody else. Sure, 3-3-1, minus three goal differential. Not very good. Not very good. Not scoring key goals marchand has struggled a little bit guys and in the last little while here he's not quite the same player that he was a year and a half two years ago is it at 37 yeah around 36 37 there. 36, 37? Is he starting to slow down a little bit too? He was never.

Or for Team Canada, is one of the guys we already named. Never speed was his game, but even with those type of guys, and we're watching it with John Tavares here, who's I think two or three years younger than him. Like when you were never blessed with speed right when you lose in your 30s particularly three five percent it's a big deal particularly for a smaller guy who wasn't relying on physicality

either i know that brad marchand is physical but i mean he's not an imposing figure who holds guys off with an arm like he's it's it's hard yeah with those dimensions perhaps the most underpaid player in nhl history yeah he's like on year whatever making six million and now he's like in his contract year and he's having the worst year of his career and probably not gonna get nearly as much as no goals in seven games is that what he's at it's not very many at all that's yeah four assists that's what he's got minus three so and they have coming to town tonight they play the dallas stars who you can argue might be the best team in minus three. And they have coming to town tonight, they play the Dallas Stars, who you can argue might be the best team in the league.

And then they have the Maple Leafs on Saturday night, which, whatever you think of them, not a bad team. Yeah, not bad. You know, the one thing about the Bruins, and Lindholm's not fast. They don't look, they look old and slow. Yeah, Lindholm, that's true. They added him and he's not exactly.

You know, what's funny is right now, Mike Kelly had a great tweet. There's three lines in the NHL who have been on the ice for at least five goals for and zero against. They're not the lines you think they would be. One of them is the Boston Bruins line of Beecher, Kastelik

and Kepke who are the best in the NHL, 8 goals for 0 against that's a good run for their 4th line Cooley, Hedl and Kako for the Rangers are 7-0, Niederreiter, Lowry and Appleton are 5-0 3 lines in the whole league

that line is it's a perfect hockey line. Yeah, it's really good. You want to listen to Knobloch? Well, I was going to say, I was just mentioning coming off the Marchand thing about the first six guys that are named for Team Canada. And yeah, it's Sid, McKinnon, McCarr, McDavid,

Braden Point, and Brad Marchand. Brad Marchand is going to be just fine. They're going to put him with Sid. He'll be fine there. They'll create that same magic they had in 2016. Is Patrice Bergeron going to be there too? No.

Is Patrice Bergeron and his prime going to be there? Hey, I know you love Jersey talk. You saw the release of the jerseys. What do we think of the jerseys? I should have got Jake to... I should have got him a picture to put up on the screen for people watching. I should have done that. That was my bad.

But I love it. You like Canada's? I love it. I do. I like them all except the U.S. ones. I think... Well, it's a pretty standard U.S.A. With nothing on their shoulders.

Oh, there we go. We got the jerseys. Oh, great job. Look at that. The USA one's not great. Canada's with black helmet, black pants, you said, Sammy, I think on Twitter. Traditional Swedish one. I see Boria Salming there wearing that jersey. Swedish one is

about the only sweater I like without anything on the shoulder caps. That looks really sharp. And the Finnish one's really nice. I just got to say that there has been a lot of wheel reinvention when it comes to Canada jerseys. And this one just feels a little bit more traditional. Like it's just got a nice leaf.

I like the Canada on there. The colors are nice. I don't need the Canada smiley face. You don't like that? No, I like it. It's complicated. We know who it is. That's true.

Can I say something about Matthews? We're in the USA thing? Go ahead. You know, people have talked a lot about oh we need best on best we need best on best this is a major consequence for a lot of leaf fans you're afraid of them it's good like you know there haven't been a ton of huge moments with austin matthews scored a ton of regular season goals he's been brilliant in the in the regular season. Had a couple of big ones in the playoffs, like you think of the one against Boston last year,

against Tampa to tie it. You're reaching now. Yeah, they're not big moments. You know... It's coming. Saturday night, Canada-USA in this tournament that people say doesn't matter. If he has, like like the OT winner or something

and perceived his biggest moment of his career, being against Canada and all of his fans, like there is a chance for a perception. But it's in the made up event with all the teams. It's an exhibition series. Okay, Kippy. You can say that right now. All that matters to me is the Olympics.

That's it. But the Olympics is also an exhibition that we've just decided to place importance on, and people will place importance on this. I'm not taking that away. But at the end of the day, I don't really care who wins this thing. You don't? No. Oh, my God.

No. I do. No. There's no Russia. There's no, like, it's four. The Czechs won the world championship and they're not involved. So, like, there's four. There's really good players, and there's really still countries that could compete that aren't there. This is a warm-up, Sammy. Okay, still.

Okay. That's all. It's fine. All I'm saying is when Matthews rips one over Binnington's shoulder with two minutes left. But 20, 30 years from now, it's not going to be a moment. You don't think? No.

I think there's potential. Was the World Cup in 2016 here in Toronto a moment? No, but Canada also beat Team Europe in the final. Team Europe and Young Guns. That was always hokey. It was hokey from the start. We all knew it. Okay, but this one's hokey too because there's only four teams in this tournament.

Teams are pretty much the best. Sorry, they're the four best teams. They're the four best teams. Russia would be better. Yeah, I'd pick any of those teams over Russia. Yeah. I would. Russia.

Russia's good. Don't get me wrong. They got some good players. But I would choose those four teams over Russia. It's fine. But, you know, you don't have to be in a puddle if Austin scores a winning goal. I'm just saying, I'm just saying that the perception of Austin Matthews in this market, people like him, but there's also the lack of success that hangs over his head.

If Marner's really good for Canada, could do wonders for him. If Matthews is really good for USA, could do the opposite. People would be mad at him for hurting our feelings. Listen, I, during the 2014 olympics you loved matt sundin you can love someone from another country completely different usa and you don't respect sweden i love sweden i love sweden i think they're good at hockey i don't know i just i don't have the like i just i don't want to say this because i have more like respect i don't know i don't know it's hard to explain you can be clear on on your opinion, you respect Swedish people more than Americans.

Oh, my God. No, but I just, it's going to be, I think once it gets here, it's going to be way bigger than people are making it seem right now, is my final think. I wrote an article today for the Toronto Star in it. I do a few NHL news and notes as well. I talked about Sam Bennett.

Elliott, I think, reported that they are talking about a contract in Florida, but everything I hear, like, not close. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Some distance between what I think Sam thinks he's worth and what I think Florida's prepared to pay him.

So this one will be interesting. What is tough is, you know, they're starting to have to pay the people they won the cup with. And once you've paid other people, it's like we don't have infinite money, even with the tax help. So the most recent, Sam Reinhart at over $8 million. Yep. Verhage at $7.

Where would you guys have Sam Bennett? I don't think Bennett is any less important to them than Verhage. And I bet they're saying, but goals. He's saying, but everything else. But running guys through the wall. Yeah. That to me, the perception of what makes Florida Florida is actually his identity. Even more than Matthew Kachuk or whatever.

I think of Sam Bennett because he's the guy who is the bone crusher he's an he's an absolute nail gun yeah like i i when i watch them i'm like oh please don't hurt one of the elite stars like he's just the guy you fear scores big goals he would be interesting flora he'd be interesting if if he gets to july 1st you think there's potential for that i think someone would grossly overpay him and regret it for sure because. Because they'd be very excited to get Sam Bennett, which you should be. Maybe Brad Shillian that traded him away for a third-round pick would be that guy. Well, if you go by your Theodore theory about taxes and all that, then what would a Canadian team have to get to? $11.5 million probably.

Oh, that's not happening. Okay. Just stop that. I don't know. Like $8 million probably? Yeah. That's disgusting. $9 million.

$9 million is not. Well, $7 million. You just had Theodore at $2 million difference, you just told me earlier in the show. But Shea Theodore is a better player, I think, than Sam Bennett. Different, no question, but... Yeah, different. Different.

Different guys. Apples and oranges. Anyways, I would like him to be here. That'd be awesome. All right. We got a couple other things to listen to. Do we? Yeah, we got Arbor Jack Eye.

Oh, yeah. And we have Chuck Knobloch from the Edmonton Oilers on splitting up the units. Do you want to hear that one, Kip, or do you want to hear Jack Guy, or do you just want to talk to me? Jack Guy. Jack Guy. All right.

Arbor Jack Guy's clip is on the Truba hit. Always fun to have him weigh in on that. I mean, I'm not sure. I think it was, I don't know. It's a tough play. I mean, we're down 5-2, and they're obviously dominating the game a little bit. Throw a hit like that is, I don't know. It's a tough play. I mean, we're down 5-2, and they're obviously dominating the game a little bit. Throw a hit like that is, I don't know, I didn't really like to see it.

I know I probably would have done something if I was in the lineup or addressed it for sure, but he'll definitely remember it, and we'll see what happens next game. Yeah, tough spot to be in, but he's going in the right direction in terms of, what are you asking me? I don't want to see my player hurt. But tough spot to be in to be Jacob Truba and hear Arbor Jack, I say, going to remember it. Oh, that has to be the case.

You don't have to fight Jack guy for throwing a clean hit. No, but you want to make a guy nervous. Jack Guy's doing his job there. That's all. By the way, I don't hate Americans. Let's get that out of the way. I was painting in the corner. I love the fact that you're ready to go on this Four Nations.

I just hate America's hockey team. Yeah, there it is. I promise you I will get more excited as we get further along. And we're all watching it on the beach in Colorado. Aren't we? They're putting watching it on the beach in Colorado. They're putting you to work. Oh, yeah. That's why they sent me to Montreal. Four Nations Talk with Sam McKee.

Boy, those jerseys are nice. End of show. Real Sammy for two weeks while we go golf somewhere. All right, nine games on tap tonight. Pick the one you want to watch and then join us again tomorrow on the real Kipper and Bourne show.