Real Kyper & Bourne - MSG Meltdown with Steve Valiquette

Episode Date: December 3, 2024

MSG analyst Steve Valiquette (1:25) joins Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne after covering the Rangers' 5-1 loss to the Devils last night. He addresses his comments on Jack Hughes' breakaway attempt and the social media fallout before getting into the Rangers' defensive dysfunction, his Team Canada goalie projections, what's sparked the Leafs' elite play in net and much more. Nick, Justin and Sam McKee close the show with some Team Canada roster projections for the Four Nations Face-Off before Wednesday's official announcement.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

here we go on our national hour the real kipper and born show we are live on sportsnet 650 in vancouver and sportsnet 960 in calgary this hour real kipper and born is brought to you by bet365 in a few minutes we'll welcome welcome in Steve Valliquette, analyst for the New York Rangers, the struggling New York Rangers, to the point where last night, Steve Valliquette was covering the game and had some choice words for Jack Hughes,

who went on a breakaway. And I think the term that Jack Vallecat used was blatant disrespect on a one-handed backhand attempt. So I guess this blew up social media, didn't it, guys? Yeah. So I'll give you my take. My opinion is that Vallee wasn't trying to blow up jack hughes so much as the rangers i think he was making a point about the rangers not doing anything no pushback no stand up whatever and you know because he used the phrase kind of flippantly that it was

instagram hockey and so the devil social media team put out a video of him saying instagram hockey well they shot five pucks in the net and then it became a whole thing and now we got the man oh he's way in we got him valley what did you do all right let's welcome him in does a terrific job always one of our favorites on the show steve aliquette um interesting times in new york i will tell you though if i'm chris drury today i'm ecstatic that you got i took the attention all of it all of it last night while i kind of slipped out the back door um all right just where do you want to start steve and just in terms of you know where it was left off between your comments

and we just heard from Justin moments ago on what maybe you thought your intention was when you spoke of it. The floor is yours, pal. No, you know what, fellas? My intention from the beginning of the season was to represent a hockey club that wanted to contend for a Stanley Cup so the bar is so high and I know you guys go through the same thing in Toronto you can break down and pick apart wins because you don't like them because you know they're not

going to be wins in April May June we're in the same position here in New York the start was great it was a five and one start, a marquee win in Toronto. But to be fair, that's the only marquee win the team has had this season. And shortly after that, it was October 24th. The Rangers played against Florida at home, and it was the first game of the season against a real marquee opponent at home, and they got smoked. And from that point to now, no team in the NHL has given up as many rush chances or overall chances as the New York Rangers. They're not playing well at all. They know it.

But the thing is, is nothing's changing. In last night's game, knowing the Devils are a top three rush team, they gave up an odd man rush really early, 30 seconds in, and then two and a half minutes in, Bratt scores on a two on one. Now, they're down two nothing. The Devils get two breakaways in the first period, one of which Jack Hughes has zero back pressure. Everybody was either falling around or out of position.

By the time Hughes received the puck, he didn't have to take a hard stride. Not so much space between the next checker and Hughes. And he looked up, he realized it, and I felt like, as a former goalie, he looked at the opportunity as a sniper, which he is, to put one on Shusterkin. And what I thought was interesting was that he's a sniper on breakaways. It doesn't matter if it's Hughes, McDavid, Snuffleupagus. I think it's the same point to be made, which is, and I'll tell you this,

Hughes, 80 breakaways over the last three years, he's got 25 goals. So he knows what he can do on a breakaway and i think he took an opportunity to play fancy now the issue i had wasn't with hughes as much as it was there was no pushback from the rangers and that's where i left it last night until i woke up this morning and i had to take my uh twitter feed and like put it to the back page because i had to get work done this morning. Yeah. So it was more criticism of the Rangers than Jack Hughes actual play. You know, he's a skilled guy who makes skilled plays. Do you have a problem with a player trying to score a goal that way or even you think

it's showing a guy up, right? Well, no, you know what it is to Borny. It's back to the conversation about the playoffs. What we don't see in a Stanley Cup final, that semifinal, we don't see Michigan's, we don't see Forsberg's, you know, it's tight hockey. And that's the standard I've held the Rangers to all year. I want to see from them that type of game, the same way you want to see that from the Leafs

and the same way any fan base wants to see their team win the right way. And in terms of that, though, I know that I would like, if I was the goalie, for my bench to have my back there, the guys on the ice to get into the face of the players that were doing that. If I was on Hughes' team, I would have been happy for him. But if it's in that situation, especially with the way things have gone this year and they haven't gone well you'd like to see some pushback valley you're 10 years younger than me and i i tend to see your side of of the things that you just talked about um

now in saying that i don't necessarily agree with you that that was a's a sign of the kids today that I honestly believe that he didn't, they don't see it that way. And the things that they want to do today that we would have found goofy or a sign of disrespect for the goalies, they't see today they don't they don't and that's why they're willing to try all these things and yes they may not try them in the playoffs because they got a guy like Tortorella over their head saying get rid of that crap but if they didn't I think we would see more of those attempts but you know and and i i never want to crawl into a goalie's head in terms of what's you find disrespectful or not i think that's your right as a as a former pro goalie to understand

where that line's been crossed but i i i think they don't know any better to to to feel like they're not crossing any line this is just one of the ways I want to try to put a puck in the net these days. You know what, Kipper? I don't disagree because I'm on the ice with high schoolers a lot, all summer, collegiate players, OHL players. And oftentimes when they don't finish a rebound and their posture comes up and they stop playing, I always wonder why not make it play out like you would in a game

or if they're not intense on a rebound the way that you would have to be in a game and they do go into more of a fancy mode. You know, I always say to those guys, I'm like, hey, look, if it doesn't feel like a game, don't do it out here in practice because now the goalie is not getting a good rep and you're not getting a rep that you can keep when the game begins because the game is going to feel foreign to you if you're not out here rep that you can keep when the game begins because the game's going to feel foreign to you if you're not out here performing with game posture, game intensity. I think that's a big piece that gets missed a lot in practice. But I do wonder if sometimes when I'm speaking to these guys,

especially the prep school kids now, I was on the ice with Taft kids, Avon kids, Brunswick kids for the last number of weeks, and sometimes they might be looking at me like I had two heads. And I'm like, come on, guys. It's not going to happen in a game. Don't do it that way out here. Oh, listen. And listen, in my era again, even if I tried that stuff in practice,

like if I tried to get any cheese past Glenn Healy in a practice, I'm getting either a hairy eyeball or I'm getting that heavy Victoriaville stick that he used to use right across my shin pads. Like, there's no more competitive guys on any hockey team than the goalies. You try to embarrass them even in a practice, they'll have none of it.

And that's why if you feel that way, like I can't put myself in an ex... I can't put myself in a goalie's shoes to understand... I know what Shostakhin was thinking too. I wonder if he thought it because it was the first thing I thought of when I saw it. That was the first thing that bumped into my head. I was like, geez, that takes a lot of nerve to do that.

And I think he was trying to have a fancy one. Because my point about him being a great goal scorer off the breakaway is he could have beat him straight up if he wanted to. But he wanted to make it look good. But anyhow. Okay. Anything more on that? Good night for the big guy.

Yeah. Listen, we all have them. And I thought it was a fair point to make. Okay, anything more on that? Up night for the big guy. Yeah, listen, we all have them. And I thought it was a fair point to make. The only other thing I would add is just the way that people perceive scoring on goalies, I feel like has changed a little bit. And I think it's evidenced in the shootout by the guys skating in slowly, which I think in some cases they genuinely believe some of this odd stuff is effective. So that's the only two cents I have to add to that.

Okay, let's just stay on the New York Rangers because that's the only two cents i have to add okay let's just stay on the new york rangers because that's where the meat and the real story is in my opinion and just in terms of let's start with shisterkin this guy was almost like godlike you know for the new york rangers we're talking about how much money he's going to make as the new highest paid goalie in the league. And yet now you watch what's happened in the last week and a half, two weeks, and he's looking way more human than he ever has before. And the coverage that maybe he was more comfortable with a week and a half ago, two weeks ago, is gone now.

And maybe the lack of trust in front of him has made him really feel like there's some nights he can get blown out like it looked last night you know we were talking uh before the game in the pregame kepper about time and space and what that does to a goalie and how it neutralizes their ability to just get a read on it uh the new york times had a really good article yesterday and it was on goaltending and it was the evolution of mobility and then being able to have a high hockey IQ. And if you have those two things, you're a modern goalie having a modern skill set that can be very successful and consistent in the NHL. Now, certainly Shostakhin has those two things, but he has the most difficult environment around him. And I know we've talked

about this on the show before, and people that are listening maybe for the first time must understand that the goalie is always reading off the positioning of his own teammates. And that way he knows what the options are for his opponent. And if you don't have good sticks and you don't have positioning, the goalie has very difficult math and there's too much conflicting information that he can't just lock in on his target. One of the best examples right now is the success that Hellebuck's having. He has faced the fewest time and space chances, whereas Shusterkin has faced the most. So when you look at Hellebuck playing a game where he's able to lock on a shot and his numbers,

I went through all the goalies today, guys. Hellebuck, where the heck are you? 88 clear-sighted shots over the month because I was looking at how everybody's preparing before the tournament that's coming up, and he hadn't been scored on once. And it was also his two-on-ones faced uh six two-on-ones this month hasn't been scored on once but on all the two-on-ones where the puck carrier shot it every one of them there was back pressure

and and the difference between back pressure and no back pressure is a 10% increase in scoring probability for the shooters. So if you give somebody a two-on-one, a good example is last night's Jesper Bratz, there's no back pressure at all. So now on this particular time, Keandre Miller's defending it. He defends the middle of the ice, but doesn't really press at all. i like to see brat was coming down shisterkin's right side i like to see a defenseman's right skate slice through the circle and just come to the circle on the edge so his left skate is still in the slot because it's enough where you can still press and just let them know you're there but you're not giving the lane to pass through if you jump him they will pass through you the easiest way to get passed through is by jumping aggressively in the circle or the slide if it's ill-timed.

But on this particular read, there was just so much time and space. And I feel like Shosturkin is stuck there. He's physically stuck. He's mentally stuck. He's technically stuck. And he gets beat on a shot through his five hole. And the second shot in the period goes through him because he's leaning to jump off the pass and to me it looked like he was jumping on the

pass on both goals number one and two and that would lead me to say wow this guy's game's breaking down right now this isn't good because over weeks one two through really six of the season, he was carrying everything. Valley, you know, goalies aside, you've been watching this Rangers team as close as anyone. They have not had success since the trades leaked. The big names being Truba and Kreider. What do you make of the status of this team? I believe they lost five straight games now.

Well, so yeah, Borny, they lost five, and then they won one, and believe they lost five straight games now well so yeah borny they lost five and then they won one okay and then they lost again and the games that they're losing guys it was 10 of the last 17 where they're giving up 10 or more high danger chances in a game uh the game on friday in philadelphia it was eight in the first period and you know we're talking about we're talking about a game's worth of high danger chances in one period it's been so difficult covering the team and not being over overly hard on them or overly critical but look the nut and bolts of it is is that if you don't defend in this league you're going to look silly out there and and even the next game

that's coming up on friday against pitts Pittsburgh makes me a little nervous because Pittsburgh is a run and gun team. It's not the ideal opponent for the Rangers at this stage that they should be playing another run and gun team. In the last five games, they've had losses against Carolina, Edmonton, Philadelphia. These are all top five off the rush teams, including the Devils that we just saw last night. So that's four of five. And it hasn't gone well. It's like they keep going for it with these teams and they want to trade chances and it's not fitting their game. The one area the Devils are weak is net front. They're not a great net front team. Shots from the point coming off the walls, protection in front Joe

Micheletti had spoken to Sheldon Keefe about it and it was a concern and it was something that was seen in the data as well they're just they're 31st at protecting that front so knowing that I was hoping the Rangers were going to play a net front congested win battles in front game and it just never materialized they wanted to play them off the rush. We're talking to Steve Allicat, analyst for the New York Rangers on MSG, also CEO of ClearSight Analytics. Just to kind of stay on the Rangers for a little bit longer here, Valley, and maybe I'll include the Nashville Predators in this, and I don't know what data can tell us, but just the odds of so many players underperforming at the same time.

And what are the odds in that? And, you know, I look at this lineup and I see the big boys up front, but where they're truly underperforming for me all at the same time, and I'll include Keondra Miller and Adam Fox and Truba and Lindgren is on this blue line. Like, they're not that bad. You know, if you watched the game over last night, I bet you guys would say 15 to 20 yips.

There were a lot of yips. I mean, guys on two-on-ones, the puck's just taking off on them. Plays in zone where you're trying to bump it back to your defenseman off the wall, right to the slot, scoring chance devils. There's a lot of lost confidence there. And I'm sure that you guys felt that at some point, you could probably even point to a point in your career where, oh my God, I didn't even want the puck at that point.

I was struggling so bad. Didn't want to see a shot for me, but you didn't want the puck on your stick because you just didn't feel yourself. That's just run through the team. It's just where they are right now. And, I mean, you can say it, Keper. You know, like there's a Barkley-Goudreau move, and he's a glue guy, and he gets moved, and I think it bothered the players.

And there's also a move with potentially trying to trade Trouba and it's blocked. His wife is going through a residency here in New York City. And Shosturkin's without a contract. There's a lot of noise. And what I've always felt like over the years is that the noise off the ice always finds a way onto the ice. It always does.

And even though they're an experienced group, they just haven't blocked it out at this point. And I think that they've done everything they can to try and resolve it, but it just hasn't been there. It's a different look this year. And every year you're trying to get the spirit of the group to a point where you feel like every guy is pulling for each other. I know that in 94 you guys were using Heave Ho.

And I'm going to see Gravy here in an hour. We're doing an event together here in New York. And I'm sure those guys are around the team with some insight too because you can't play this game. I always felt like as a goalie, as soon as the opponent went individual during a game you could see it you know you're down you're up sometimes up three one in the third period and then your opponent is trying to go one on three on your team you're like oh we got him you know there's a sense that you got him and i feel like it's going the other way for the rangers where they've been gotten here a little bit trying to not skate together, not

play together, pass each other's problems onto one another. It's been a tough, tough run. This is the toughest run here I've seen in 10 years. Valley, I put an article on sportsnet.ca today about... Can I go one more on the Rangers? Yeah, finish up the Rangers.

Are you going to go Canada? I am, yep. One more on the Rangers. Quickly quickly can this affect Shisterkin's contract status well you know you're gonna have to call Kevin Weeks but yeah it's funny I called Weeksy last week because of his comments. I said, Weeksy, what do you know? And he goes, Valley, Vegas, ooh, Chicago, ooh. Maybe he doesn't want to sign there. Ooh. And I was like, Weeksy, you're not giving me anything. You're just messing with me. But he does want to try to win now, too, is the information that I'm getting.

That it's very important to him that the rangers stay competitive if you're going to start dishing off all these veterans and you may not be looking for veteran presence in return to keep you in the mix maybe that changes a few things for him well there's been a lot of change i mean look the start that he had you would have felt like, you know, Chris Drew, you made a mistake, should have got him done early. You know, he's going to cost you now. And now you're back to, geez, I mean, you could play it both ways, Kipper,

from both sides. I mean, you might be wondering. Like I'm telling you right now, it's the funniest thing to me is looking at the data that includes the time and space because Shosturkin should have allowed 25 goals this year based on the difficulty of all these chances faced on the time and space ones, and he's allowed 23. It's only a difference of two goals.

The best goalie in the world, when he faces time and space fellas, he's still just about league average. That's how important defending is. And if you don't get that, you'll never win in any level. And I want the viewers and the people listening to know that when there's a stick coming into play before somebody's trying to shoot on your goalie, as long as the goalie can see that stick occupying some space and it's ready to get there, as a goalie, you can lock in on onto where you believe that shot's coming from. And right now,

uh, anybody coming in on Shisterkin has five feet on each side and five feet North South. And you're like, they could do whatever they want. And they, especially on the East to West stuff, guys,

time and space, it's like a chance that goes from 30% to 40%. Do you, can you give NHL players extra 10 all over the ice every night that's in essence what's happening with the rangers yeah recipe for disaster um team canada you know uh you got to pick three goalies i have my roster projected projection on sportsnet.ca i have thompson hill and binnington not because they've been the best because that's who i think they're going to pick.

Is there anyone, how do you feel about my picks? Is there anyone you think they should be picking instead of those three guys? What's Max? What's Max saying? I'm not telling you. It's true. Just what I heard.

Yeah. What do you got for me? So I heard that DeBoer and Cassidy aren't big on Thompson. Really? Yeah, so there might be an influence there, and I'm hearing it's Bennington Hill. Bennington Hill. That is true.

Right. That's just what I heard. Okay. Well, that's a couple of guys I'm not shocked to hear, a couple of Stanley Cup champs. No, Hill's been really good. So I got his numbers in front of me. He's had an awesome, like, you know what it is too, boys?

We're talking about who's going to get hot for 10 days, right? Right. And Aiden Hill has had an awesome month. He's had eight broken play goals against, which is a high number, but those are always reflective of luck and balance. So if you take those out, or at least, you know, four out, his save percentage would be really high. 26 east to west chances faced in the month, only four goals against.

You'll notice if you watch him right now, well, you just saw him last week against the Leafs. He played great. You've got to play out. He's got to play out, and when he plays at the top of what we call the old crease line, the old box, he's playing there right now, and he looks big in his net he's moving really well he's stopping breakaways um i'd be very happy for him uh to be on the team

what about mark mark andre flurry is i'm trying i'm looking up right now did he was he in vegas when deborah was there i'm trying to make connections here yeah he was i i don't uh i i don't i don't think so just Just the age thing, right? Just like not being that awesome right now? Skinner, yeah. I was kind of thinking about Skinner a little bit too. But you know what? One of your old teammates, Kemper Demchinov, he was my coach in Russia.

Yeah. And I had a couple of good games at the end of the year. And I was coming off the ice. He was giving everyone high fives. You know what he said to me? Too little, too late. Yeah, that sounds like him. Too little, too late.

You mentioned Skinner. Really, at the end of the day, if he loses a spot on this team, it had everything to do with just a weaker blue line to your earlier points, correct, at the end of the day? Yeah, and look, to be fair, he had a really strong blue line last year that elevated him to go away from everything. And it's still, it's coming for him, but he's a very good in-zone goalie. I wouldn't trust him at the highest level with the skill level on those rosters off the rush so when it's

all said and done we're going to go into this thing and you're going to say connor hellebuck in the usa have a huge advantage over canada is that what you're telling us well i i i wonder i wonder hey but we haven't even talked about who the backup's going to be for Hellebuck. Is it going to be Stolarz or Joseph Wall lately? How good has he been? I'm not going to say that, but you guys got a bit of a... Sammy made an audible groan when you said that. Don't send any more leaves to this tournament. Jesus.

Maybe as a three, Sammy, just so he gets some looks for the next tournament. He's been playing great. He's been playing great. You know, you know, when we talk about environment, guys, have you guys noticed that Wolfe's environment's been very good? Yeah. Well, like he goes home and plays the piano? What?

No. Candles. Yeah, so his goalie environment, the array of shots that he faced this month, and we have him at 9-0-6 expected. So basically saying that he's had the easiest environment in the

NHL of all the goalies that have played in the month of November. Chris Tannen effect. He's had a very good month. Stolarz too. Stolarz, 15 east to west this month, only two goals against. Jeez.

Best goalies in the league. Best goalies in Canada. Best net in Canada. That's what I said at the beginning of the year. We'll take it. We'll take it. Any updates or thoughts on Demko? Because we thought he was close, I think, last time you were on the show.

And it's like we're all waiting here. Yeah. I check in, and I'm the same as everybody else. You know what? It's a wait and see, but what a disaster that is for them. It's been tough. Yeah, she loves not holding up his end of the bargain, is he? Well, I think it gets back into a little too much too soon.

You know what else I've been hearing from a lot of goalies in the league this year is that guys aren't happy with the lack of practice time. Yeah. Didn't think I'd hear that as often as I do. But when I talked to NHL goalies this year, one of the issues everybody has is that with the mandatory day off each week, plus the amount of games each week,

they're not getting the reps. And like when I talked to him about breakaway reps, because when do you get your breakaway reps typically at the end of practice when guys stay on after and they're not getting breakaway reps they're not getting the reps they need to stay fresh and i always think of uh benoit allaire our coach henrik and i in in new york used to always say to us be patient with yourself the day after a day off. And we would be like, you know, Benny, it's only one day. No, no, no, no. You're a finely tuned instrument right now, mid-season. If you feel off, you need to be patient with yourself and don't be too hard on yourself

coming off of a day off. And I read this once upon a time. It was a Yo-Yo Ma, if you guys are familiar with this guy, he's the world's famous cellist. And one thing that he wrote, which made a lot of sense to me, and it was right to Benny's point, was if you miss one day of practice, I notice. If I miss two days of practice, my wife notices. And if I miss three or more days of practice, the world notices. And it's a funny thing at the NHl level when you get there and you're that finely tuned and you're in season the practice time a lot of guys are complaining about not getting enough reps and they're not sharp the way they should be and i think it's something that really influences the way that you play all of your game situations okay i have to follow this

up before i let you go then based on on what you just said if that's all off of one day off what the heck's gonna happen in February when the goalies that don't play in this tournament get three weeks off um you guys have a gambling sponsorship bet the over bet the over thanks bet three six five like it's gonna affect different guys in different ways right hey kepper do you remember the pucks that were going in the year after the 0405 lockout but i remember the ones that we shut down half a season for yeah right on yours was yeah it was yeah yours was 94 94 95 yeah after 95 95, after you got a score. 95. Yeah, so, no, I'm expecting it. It's going to be wild.

I got to say, it's been a fun year, but there's a lot of change in the game. And maybe that's where I came from last night, too. I feel like I've got a lawyer up for these goalies right now. They're getting work. All right, pal, we're going to let you go. I'm just,

you know, we got a lot of blatant respect for you on this show. We got to just make sure that you know that. Okay, boys, I'll tell you about, I've been in one today. You can handle it.

If anyone can Valley, you got it. You're a shot blocker. Easy. Try to be us. Take care, fellas. Have a good one. Thanks, Valley.

Steve Allicat, analyst for the New York Rangers, MSG, and CEO of ClearSight Analytics. He thinks that maybe Jack Hughes was a little kind of coy with the comment but I honestly believe that Jack when he said I don't know what that means Steve by the way, oh Jack Hughes

no Jack Hughes, sorry that he didn't really understand that where Valley was coming from. It's not disrespectful if I think that I can score this way in today's game. Yeah.

You know, Jack Hughes is one of the guys in the league that Valley made the point that you don't see that in playoffs, and you haven't. I think Jack Hughes would do that in playoffs for sure. I do. I think, you know, to him, it's a way to get a puck past a goalie he he if anyone is the most confident person i've ever heard speak i think we're doing all right i think we're a bit of a eater you know like he's yeah yeah but he actually can't stand him you know what i'm saying but he's incredible and he knows it and i think he. Quick essential American hockey player to me. And there's a lot of them in our league right now that are just like,

yeah, I'll try any game. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Like cup final, game six, breakaway. Is he doing it? Was it like the now famous Kucherov move where he. The no touch? The no touch, and he slides it in. move where he. The no touch. The no touch and he slides it in.

Was that on a shootout or a breakaway? No, he did it in a game. He did both. He did both. He did one in a game that he kind of lost. The nerve to try that. Yeah. Like just not in my world, not in my day.

I would be interested in looking that up. And I wonder if it was in November, December. This feels like the time of year where guys are it's game 30 you know the one that stud the one that he did in the game and i'm just a sicko that i remember this stuff but the one he did in the game was against the capitals i think it was holtby and he like did like a few stick handles over top of it and it kind of slipped through the five hole and it was sort of the the one he got was robin laner in the shootout yeah he got him clean on that which i think is actually the nastiest shootout goal ever like it's just for him to pull it off like

that have it go perfectly five hole i love that one so but yeah i don't think he's trying that in the playoffs kucherov coming down out the way i don't think he's going for a no shot shot no it would be pretty audacious if he's not trying it in the playoffs it's only because the guy behind the bench yeah has put the handcuffs on him sit you down oh yeah yeah i don't think i agree with that no i do for sure because i listen i i am not jack hughes but my job was to score goals at different levels yeah but you're not going to try a no shot shot no but i would try and i know that i've been told not to try things anymore. If you believe that, then it adds to what Steve Aliquette said then last night in the broadcast. I think Kucherov and Jack Hughes are two totally different situations to me.

Why? Because Kucherov's one. He's been in the playoffs. He's a killer. He's this type of guy. You think Jack Hughes cares about that? No. Jack Hughes sees himself as Kucherov. Yeah yeah but i don't think i don't know maybe i'm talking myself into

a i'm talking myself into a corner here but i just i think in a jack is more likely to do a one-hander lander in a playoff game definitely jack hughes over kutcher off i'll agree with that i just think jack just marches to his own drum right now and he's there's a lot of them now and that's just that generation now that's what they do i'd say we're doing okay this is definitely a generational thing i don't even know what that means i can't he drives me crazy i will say like what valley said i'm so ready to hate him on usa was at least a reasonable suggestion from valley totally reasonable to be like that has been a sign of disrespect. So for Valley to suggest it is fine. The devil's to grab it

and make it a social media post and put Valley in the crosshairs like that. I don't even know what that means. Glenn Healy, give me the wooden goalie stick helicopter by my ears. I was after your

era and I would get something. You shoot one off the crossbar in practice and the guy throws you and takes a blocker swing at you. Sorry for trying to score, man. Yes, exactly. My way. By the way, talking about practices, I didn't know any goalies who liked practice. Would have loved to have been teammate with one goalie who liked to practice.

Okay, we got to take a quick break. We got to take a quick break when we come back. Game time on the other side. We'll do game time on the other side. Plus, yoursportsnet.ca has the latest on Team Canada projections on the lineup. We'll get right into that. And my beef with NHL and the Players Association on what's gone on. And Philip Heronic injury update as well.

All right. Back when we return after these words. Hey, it's Ben Ennis. And I'm Brent Cunning. We got you covered on all things Leafs, Raptors, and Blue Jays every weekday morning, 6 to 9. It's the Fan Morning Show. Sportsnet 590 The Fan and wherever you get your podcasts.

Last block on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. A reminder that this hour of Real Kipper and Bourne is brought to you by Bet365. Nick Kipros, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, and it is game time. It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. It's 2019 plus. Ontario only. Please play play responsibly a lot of good games tonight um got the uh edmonton oilers and vegas golden knights probably the best game of the night in vegas uh edmonton oilers are pretty big favorite actually in that game minus 135 heading

into vegas uh love a little bit of value on the vegas golden knights money line at home plus 115 and i gotta tell you the sharkies have gone from horrible to totally watchable yes and i think tonight them going up against one of the best teams in the league i think the best team in the league by points percentage in the washington capitals and the fact that they're only plus 235 in that game has shown you how far they've come and how far you know bet 365 thinks they are by the way timothy lilligren boys lighten it up for them three goals two assists already for them yeah five points three goals that's a clear high at the last four uh and the last game that i'll bring up is feels like these two teams play every

single night but it's detroit visiting the boston Bruins at the Boston Gardens. That's Boston Gardens, TD Gardens. And the Boston Bruins are minus 180 favorites against the Detroit Red Wings. Both those teams are pretty mid to me, but the Detroit Red Wings are worse, clearly. Plus 150. Take a long shot on the Red Wings. They've got to win eventually at some point

here. Get a big win. So give me the Red Wings plus 150. And that was Game Time, presented by Bet365. Visit the app, play the stats, plus 150 and that was game time presented by bet365 visit the app latest odds and find out why it's ever ordinary at bet365 must be 19 plus ontario only please play responsibly lily has seasons of six and five goals with the leafs lighten it up three is not his career high after all okay uh sportsnet.ca on the eve of Team Canada being announced tomorrow, you've got your picks. Yep.

They include two guys that got called in at center ice for the Philadelphia Flyers who were awfully excited. Yeah. I wrote that in the article. I was like, maybe I wouldn't have picked them, but we kind of know what happened here. I love that. Yeah. I can that in the article. I was like, maybe I wouldn't have picked him, but we kind of know what happened here. I love that. Yeah.

I can't pretend I don't know. I love Konechny. Yeah. Konechny's a great player. Travis Sanheim is a little bit, so after this happens, I look into Travis Sanheim as deeply as I know how through all my. Yeah, of course. I kind of feel like, how did I miss him in some of my previous iterations?

Like, he had 44 points this year. He's 6'4", 222. He's got 15 points this year. He plays good competition. He kills penalties. Really good. Really good player. Having a great year.

Just not one person in the sports world watches the Flyers then? Not one team, not anybody can claim to have said that they have Travis Sandheim on their projected roster. I think it's with D, it's a lot closer than forwards and for potential other names like at the fringes, there's the Dowdy injury which you don't know, but there's Pareko, Weeger,

Hamilton, Bouchard, Riley, Montour, Dobson, like he's just one of those guys. We're going to see John Cooper get an abundant of his players on this team i think so oh yeah so sorelli's yes listen trust what you know yeah absolutely well and i do think that these guys will be affected having seen saint louis and eiserman have their and you had hagel

on i did have hagel on i don't have that as all that close either. He's so good. He's really turned into a player. You look back at that proposed Leafs trade, and I think it was for Hagel and Marc-Andre Fleury, and it was Matthew Nyes and two firsts. I don't even think that would be that bad of a trade, looking back at it, if you had Hagel on the team right now. Because the reason it was so high was haggle was making 1.5 million for like three years or something but like if they

at least just had haggle right now and nize was on the blackhawks i don't think we would be like oh my god how they you know it's yeah it's a that's a fascinating what if definitely is last night conor bradard not even a shot on goal against the toronto maple leafs at all but solidified that uh he won't be on the team no he's not on the team and he's he's not and they're in celebrating will not be on the team no okay how do you put these kids on now knowing that there's so many other these great names that are having good seasons that are projected stars on their respective clubs. Like, you can't do that. No.

Not two years away projecting that, oh, they're going to be on the Olympic team, so let's put them on now. Like, we could all be hit by a bus between now and two years from now. Let's see how they look in two years before we decide they're on the 26th Olympic team. For sure. And I look at your forward group and I'm like, where are they getting in there? Like, where's... Yeah, who's coming out?

Yeah. That's, like, those two top lines. I'll just try to rattle it off. Point McDavid-Reinhart. Hagel-McKinnon-Marner. Marchand-Crosby-Konechny. Stone-Cirelli-Scheifele. Bennett. I love those. I have Bennett in. Tom Wilson. Zach Hyman. Take your pick on that no no zach hyman

no see i like hyman i know but it's just he's not playing well and it's just not happening last year lock this year just hasn't been there for him yeah yeah i still think he creates similar chances and he four checks and he pks and i like the way he does the way he plays my great looking team here, Borny. I got to tell you. Pretty good. Like our chances. Like our chances.

My beef with the organizers of this tournament, let's go to the Players Association and the league, is like you cannot tell the players Sunday morning who's on the team. You can't have the team submit their list and think you're going to hold it off until Wednesday. I don't understand why would they tell the guys. What world do you guys live in that everybody's going to keep it a secret? It's out.

It's, I don't know. It's just like, why would you do that if the networks want to reveal it on a show why would you let that type of information out there to just because we're we're going to start hearing all of it before wednesday like you've got to submit your list on december 2nd they said why do you have to call the guys December 2nd? They're not making plans if they're close. They don't need two days more notice. This is...

Wait, hold it. Hold it. Let them find out on TV. Let them find out on TV. Okay? For the Olympics, two years from now, do not tell anybody. I'm sorry. But if you're in this era where the players have to sell the game,

then sell it right to the very end here. Be with the fans. I'm sorry. We'd like to tell you. I'm sure you'd like to know earlier. If you find out tomorrow or the next day, it's the same thing. Love that steak. You cannot hold it for 48 hours

and think that no one's going to start squealing. It's already trickling out there that Marner's going to start. Yeah. I mean, it's already trickling out there that Marner is the only leaf on team Canada. It's like, it's just already coming out. Like, well,

and the Bennett thing too, is not like not a hundred percent, just opinion. I don't know for sure. And, you know, there's alternates too. So a lot of the guys have to stay ready as well.

So Morgan Riley and Chris dan of there's still there's a chance that they could participate in it yeah as alternates yeah yeah and i could see that that those guys are names that were not far off um i think i like can't have hanging out in the beaches boy he really he made it close for them, I heard. Yeah, good. Yeah, is that right? But just relax at home. Yeah. Just relax.

Keep those, you know, the biscuit-eating legs and arms. Relax those things at home for two weeks. Take some rest. Yes. The one that I do have on there that I don't know, that is pure speculation, is I have Doughty as their seventh D. He is supposed to come back a month prior to the tournament,

and no one else grabbed a job for me for that seventh spot. If Doughty is still hurt and can't go, you have alternates you can then turn to, but you couldn't pick someone else and then be like, wow, Doughty looks like Doughty and put him in. I love having Doughty there. If he's your seventh guy and he's not playing, I like him as an experienced veteran guy.

Find a way to get him in. I think there's, I believe there's going to be some significant injuries between now and February that will allow some guys necessarily not on their radar to step up. And that could be what happens where they say to Doughty, you're the first alternate. The odds of all seven guys being 100 you know like you got a 52 chance of getting in or something but if he's looking like drew dowdy can yeah you'd hate to not have no yeah like i mean he was leading the league in ice time yeah he gets hurt like it's like he is a go-to

guy competitor canada yeah like he's he was on the ice for the golden goal boys like as a rookie so or maybe second year guy it was really young yeah so all right uh news and notes around the league where do you want to start patrick liney activated tonight versus your islanders nice for them to have something to look forward to for once instead of getting killed every night their team getting killed by us on this show. But, I mean, they have been great. So this is good news. Laine, you know, the way the injury happened,

he felt like he wanted to be impactful from the get-go. I really hope he could find a little bit of magic early here. Montreal needs some help. They're really down in the dumps. They're a dump squad. They are. They could just down in the dumps. They're a dump squad. They are. Like, they just be,

be better, be better. They're going to trade Josh Anderson. And like, are they going to do stuff? Can someone get, I guess I, are they in a position to hold money?

Is anybody going to take, you know, Taylor Hall struggling? You mentioned him earlier. He's at 6 million. So like how much money they're going to have to hold off? All of it. Not a chance.

No, who wants that, you know? I don't know. And I saw that Ehlers on IR. Was there any, you also said NHL, CBA talks set to start early next year. Any thoughts on that? I think the thought is that, as Gary mentioned, has gone on record. He wants it kind of tied up by maybe the Stanley Cup final. I'm so interested to see where this goes.

I think there's a lot of question marks. I don't, because I know the history of this thing, not necessarily convinced that this is going to be a smooth ride. No, you're jaded. And you should be jaded. I don't know if I'm jaded. How could you not be? They want to make sure it seems like they're going to be.

I'm so far removed from it. It's like, I don't know if jaded is the right word, but I do believe that from a view of 30,000 feet high above, that there's plenty to fight for still between the players and the owners. Both sides have issues to broach any changes they want, but the trajectory of the league combined with a strong working relationship between Bettman and union executive Marty Walsh means there's reason for optimism. Marty Walsh does

give me optimism in terms of just him coming in and fixing a lot of things that like he came in he's like yeah we're gonna have international hockey in like the next day he's like yeah we're back at the Olympics and there's a tournament next year it's like oh that can happen since the start of the salary cap it's

always been about the salary cap kind of, about revenues trying to catch the salary cap, thus the escrow. And now it's opposite. Now it's, yes, the cap is trying to chase the revenue, which is okay for a few markets making a ton of money but it's not necessarily a good thing for a lot of teams that are not making great money maybe not losing a ton of money but not making great money and then there's others that do lose cash money every year well you said they want to have it wrapped up by the Stanley Cup final.

They have until mid-August then to get it done. Lots of time. The CBA doesn't expire until September 15, 2026. Great if they want to chat. I'm really disappointed in you because you are like an islander through and through based on your family ties. I brought in a goalie mask that I painted when I was 12 years old. Sammy picked up on it right away.

Oh my God. And you didn't. Look at that. You painted that? I painted that. I don't know if we can get it on camera. I'll go grab it. Hold on.

I painted it with model paint when I was 12. So now because, you know, my family moved into another home, I'm going through stuff and I'm like, that is beautiful. I got to throw this stuff out. You'd never throw that out. And I said, well,

instead, I was this close to put it in the garbage. In the garbage? And I'm like, what else are you about to throw, brother? Bring it in. Buddy, not a bad garbage to sniff through. You have no idea the stuff that I've thrown out. Oh, yeah. You'd cringe.

It would make me sick. You'd cringe. But it's like, once you're past, hey, kids, you want this? No, dad. No, dad. So true. Why would I want that mask? It's so true.

And I'm like, all right. My mom going through her house and being like, do you want this? And it's like, I just don't. Well, you have a new child to bring it to, Kipper. I'm sitting across from you, buddy. I'm a young man. We should have giveaways on the show is what we should do. Yeah, we should. Alright, good show today. Jimmy Ralph in our Leaf Edition

hour, and then Steve Valliquette, who made a ton of noise since last night's Ranger loss. And you know, he didn't back down from what he said. Good for him. Stick to your guns.

Good stuff, guys. Yeah. All right. Enjoy your game tonight, whichever it may be. And we're back tomorrow on The Real Kipper and Boren Show. If you get a chance,

give us a rating and review. We'd love to hear from you. Have a great night, everybody. We'll see you next time. If you get a chance, give us a rating and review. We'd love to hear from you. Have a great night, everybody.