Real Kyper & Bourne - Murray's Misfortune, Woll's Opportunity

Episode Date: April 4, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start by looking ahead to tonight's Leafs' game against the Columbus Blue Jackets, Ryan O'Reilly getting set for his return, Sheldon Keefe continuing to tinker with the lineup and where Joseph Woll fits in after Matt Murray's injury. They are joined by Sportsnet's Luke Fox (22:35) who breaks down Murray's injury outlook, Mitch Marner the 'line-fixer,' the downsides of load management and Michael Bunting looking to remedy his reputation. Then, Fox Sports' Blue Jackets analyst Jody Shelley tees up tonight's game, sheds light on some of the unknowns on Columbus' roster, Johnny Gaudreau's struggles this season, and potential changes coming to the front office (42:25). Later, Sportsnet Calgary Flames columnist Eric Francis discusses the team finally playing up to their potential, the problem with their 'volume-shooting' system and what will happen with Darryl Sutter if they don't make the playoffs (1:06:51).The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. We got a game day. Toronto Maple Leafs in the Columbus Blue Jackets tonight. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Derek Brandeo, David Suss, Boomba, Sammy McKee. All on board for the next two hours we'll tee up tonight's game we'll get to luke fox we'll get his thoughts yep give him a really tough question for sheldon maybe tomorrow it's just like our like feeding personal mission is to make it hard on him with Sheldon, isn't it? Yes. And then blame it on Luke. Perfect. That's the best.

Jody Shelley, the voice and broadcaster for Columbus Blue Jackets, is going to come along as well. Tell us what's left of the Columbus Blue Jackets. Sunday, they stuck a serious dagger into the Ottawa Senators with an

overtime win. Not that they could do anything to the toronto maple leafs tonight other than maybe mess with their home ice advantage i know you have a different feel you think it's you think it's done and over with yeah but when you consider that uh the boston bruins are on the horizon for the Toronto Maple Leafs and an always tough Montreal Canadian back home game, end of the season, everything they'll gain and nothing to lose for the Canadian, it could get interesting, JB. Yeah, you know, to your point, like you can't take anything for granted. And this is a Columbus team that's playing in Toronto.

You know, you always assume they got some family kicking around somewhere. They know all eyeballs are on them. You're going to get a good effort out of them. So, yeah, they can't go into the game assuming they're going to be handed two points. Not in this NHL, but, yeah. I mean, you know, Lightning have a tough schedule the next couple games, too. Now, there was some thought, nothing official, right, about I heard whispers that maybe Nylander was going to miss tonight,

but he's in the lineup. And for the most part, I'll go to Sammy here. This is a stronger lineup than we saw against Detroit. You think they had a game plan to maybe sit a few more key veterans out and maybe the loss against detroit detroit altered that because this is with the exception of ryan o'reilly out of the lineup and luke shen everybody's good to go yeah it's nice to see that you know after a little while here where it's been 11 and 7 and a lot of zahorna you know it's just it's nice to see their

playoff roster started to take shape here um yeah so i didn't clip this part but he got asked about willie nylander not being at practice this morning or at morning skate and he gave matthews tavaris and nylander all the option to not be at morning skate willie nylander took him up on it the other two were there but uh that's that was why he wasn't at skate this morning i do wonder if maybe the plan was willie to sit tonight if ryan o'reilly was deemed ready he's not ready he's gonna be another couple of days so they said okay willie we're gonna need you here maybe he's maybe he's out next game although it is boston not sure you want to do that against boston you think they they contemplated playing ryan o'reilly or that was never in play well like borny's mad at me for saying this before the show but like there's how many games left

here maybe you should start playing you know like it's just throw caution throw caution to the win a little bit like he's been out for four weeks they said it was a four to six week thing he's he's good enough to play in the practice he's's skating with the regulars, no contact jersey. He's one of your key pieces to beating the Tampa Bay Lightning. You want them playing as many games, getting as comfortable as possible. Just feels like they're being too careful. You know, for me, it's like playoffs are in two weeks. Two weeks.

They're not tonight. And you want this guy jamming. He's got to be at his best. He's got another four games after this, another three games after that. You know, you don't want to err on coming back too early to play Columbus here. Another couple of days, I'm fine with it. You assume that once he comes back, it's a lot easier to have Tavares take a night off when a center replaces a center.

That's a good point. And I've been waiting for Tavares, but that does make a lot of sense. You don't think they rest him in Boston? You know, I think we talked about this earlier about the goaltending situation like i don't think you want to show boston everything you got or i actually think tonight's outcome matters like they win tonight yeah listen i get that there's such a fine line though yeah you know it's one of those things where you don't want to show all your cards, but you also have to make sure that the team feels good going into game one. Yep. If, in fact, you know, you have some trouble tonight,

it changes the way you feel about going into Boston. Does it not? The last thing you want is to lose four of six going into game one. Yeah. And I don't think it's a given anymore on, there's a certain aspect that you have to protect a little bit of your schedule and your psyche with a good lineup. You know, I totally agree with you.

And, yeah't you need some reps as the the group that you're going to be and to see how it feels you know who's going over the the boards after a power play a pk you want to get used to what the flow of your team is you got to have some games last year down the stretch heading towards playoffs the leafs went 11 2 and 2 tampa bay went 9 5 and 2 or5-1, whatever the math is on that. They weren't the better team down the stretch, but we know how that series ended. I don't think winning down the stretch is crucial,

but I do think you need some games as a unit. Leafs were 11-2-2. They finished the season last year. With a power play that totally tanked. That's incredible. Yeah. And they started hot, right? Game one.

And then Tampa Bay squeezed them. Okay. We touched on Ryan O'Reilly. Let's get Sheldon Keefe. His comments on ROR for our first Kippers Clipper. Yeah, he's really close. Not going to play tonight. But he wants to play. I think he's really close. Not going to play tonight. But he wants to play, I think.

He's excited to get going. But they're going to hold him out again here today. He's going to get another follow-up and another picture of the finger today. And that will set the course for the rest of the week. So there you go. Hard to argue that against Sammy's theory. They had to clear it with the 17 chefs and 25 doctors for yeah i get it but let's play your parents to sign the permission slip before you can go just play

hockey you spent half a draft class in this guy and you have how many weeks left with them maybe get them in some games they'll they'll have four they'll have four they'll have time all right yeah we're gonna start the season he's getting uh he's getting like i gotta tell you i like sammy today good do you know he's feisty about some energy he's short though he's got no patience today now as the leader of super fan leaf nation i get a sense that you're you're a little tired at the end of the season what is the pulse out there i am i think there's just a lot of apathy at this point if i'm speaking for myself in terms of like these games you know you it's nice to have some games with against good teams left here yeah like playing boston on thursday that's one you can get up for you know uh tampa and florida back to back next week tampa florida's gonna be fighting for their life maybe

the least lose tonight uh home ice advantage on the line against tampa going in there like you don't need that pressure that's what you're saying no i just want to cruise to the finish here i want no one to get hurt and i want to start next monday or tuesday or whatever the playoffs start in two weeks and just have some two healthy teams and go for it that's what i want the thing with your home ice advantage theory that i think I've overlooked so far is they do play in a few games, you know, like if things go a little awry and they have a head to head game,

you don't want that game to matter. So you need to wrap it up. They have four games before that. So you need to wrap it up before that. I told you yesterday, tonight's a must win. Who's got a bigger must. There's some panic. Listen, I'm coming. I'm coming over. There's a must win. Who's got a bigger must win? There's some panic.

Listen, I'm coming over. There's some home ice panic going in if they lose tonight. If they lose tonight. Yeah. Are you seeing it? I see it. Okay. Who's got a bigger must win tonight?

The Toronto Blue Jays or the Toronto Maple Leafs? Bigger must win. Oh, crucial for the Jays. I can't handle it. Oh, my God. They can't go one and four. Can we play one baseball game without giving up ten runs? No, their pitching is no good.

We stink. Throw an underhand? What's happening? Oh, my God. Anyways, we don't want to get side. No. But, so, interesting today at practice. Oh, hold on.

Sorry. Okay, go ahead. No, I'm going to follow up. You go first. I was just going to talk about what they had for a second line today at practice. Is that where you wanted to go, Marnie? No, but you're good to go. Okay. So, they had O'Reilly, Tavares, and Marner line today at practice. Is that where you wanted to go, Marnie? No, but you're good to go. Okay.

So they had O'Reilly, Tavares, and Marner skating together at practice today. Yeah. And obviously O'Reilly's not going to play, and Nylander is. And Nylander is going to slot in on that second line with Tavares and Marner, and the coach talked about it. You want to hear about it?

Definitely. Okay. Yes, there is. Well, obviously, John and Mitch, really wherever we put Mitch, that line has done really well. So that's something that we're confident and comfortable with. Obviously very confident and comfortable with Mitch with Austin as well. We haven't, other than, you know, when I stack a line here or there

throughout a game on an icing or whatever, we haven't worked with Mitch and Will together a lot. So that's something I want to give a little bit of time to. I think the way that Austin and Yarncrook have really come together and how they've played of late, I think that gives me an opportunity to let that continue to develop while also knowing that Austin and Bunce do really well. To me, Bunce's game has been trending in the right direction for a while now,

and this was more of a look I've been wanting to work towards. Mitch, the whisper. The line whisper. The line line whisper they're literally putting mitch with the two guys they're like you two it's time yeah we're gonna give you the marner bump so we're still tinkering here right well you gotta get your guys going you know there's never no problems to fix you know they're uh our boy i've talked about before anthony pichelli pichelli had an article today and he has some the pairs matthews with neil ander matthews with marner tavars and neil under tavars with marner the team grades out best when tavars and marner are

are the duo and marner and matthews gets neilander what will it look like with both i don't know i am interested to see boys if I would have told you, like, at any point in the last year and a half that you're going to go into this season down the stretch with a line of bunting Matthews and Yarncroft, you would have looked at me like I had three heads. That's true. Correct.

But if you would explain to me the Leafs logic, I could have at least made sense of it. I get it. Do you get it or do you think it's dumb? I just think, yeah, you're in a tough bind here. Yeah. And it's not pretty. It's not pretty when you have to look at your top six

and count on one guy, Mitch Marner, to save the day for everybody. Well, I think their point is that they believe Matthews can drive a line, you know, with a couple of guys who aren't superstars, and that remains to be seen. You know, good showing in Detroit, but that's Detroit. I hope he realizes that because it didn't really look like it's sunday and i know his game's a lot better but you know they were good it's okay yeah it was okay i just think if you can find it where matthews turns into matthews playing without mitch marner and you keep that as

a second line i know and it's i hate that they're tinkering this close to the playoffs. It's like, we're trying this. But if you figure out a way to get Matthews going, you get this second line, and then you slot in Ryan O'Reilly on a third line, then you're looking even deeper. It's the Crosby theory. Have him play with Rust and Mark Donk,

and they'll figure it out. Pass, kill, dupli. Right. Yeah. The one thing I was gonna say uh before that was just on this series this tampa toronto series and you know we talk about being inspired little apathy in maple leaf's uh nation uh jeff had had a tweet about this they have been matched up as projected playoff opponents since october or sorry uh sorry november 27th we said that earlier when we were discussing on should they change the format and

you and you said uh well they're the interesting part is they're going to play themselves any each other anyways and like yes but at least we wouldn't have known that since november well and at least there's jockeying to play, you know, to climb up the standings for other teams, you know, like Tampa Bay with 100 points would be right in there with the Rangers at 101 points and 104 for New Jersey. Like you'd have playoff races where you don't have playoff races currently. And just to go further off Jeff's tweet talking about that,

that's 126 days, leafs games 57 lightning games uh without any change in projected opponent plus seven uh plus seven toronto and plus five more to go with tampa bay 75 of the season with the same round one opponent that's a bust that ain't right no that ain't right and it ain't a complaint about who the leafs should play. I don't care about that. I just would like a playoff race of some variety here. And it adds to it where you're like, oh, I'm the thick of it, boy. If you're complaining about this now, I can't wait to hear your conversation if it doesn't turn out that well for the Leafs after the first round.

No, but this is not about opponent. It's about not having an interesting race here. It's not a complaint about who they're going to draw. It's a complaint about a lack of interest today. not a complaint about who they're going to draw. It's a complaint about a lack of interest today. I'll complain about who they're going to draw. Yeah, but it'll lead to his complaint. Sure, listen. It's an open door.

You're not complaining. I am. It's ridiculous. They play the best three teams in the league are in the same division. It is. You're screwed. You know it's not going to last forever.

There's going to be a point where both rosters will suffer. Guys will leave Detroit, Buffalo. Ottawa's got some upside in the next year or two. It will change. It's coming. What are we going to do in the leaf sock? Bleak radio on this show.

Okay, we have a couple updates we have to hit. Real Sammy and Bourne show. We have a couple updates we have to hit. We have to get Keefe on Murray, and we have to get him on Gustafson. So we know Murray's out. We know Joseph Wall is in tonight, like we had told them to do a couple of days ago. Writing was on the wall. Where do you want to go?

First on Murray, Sheldon Keefe on Matt Murray. Right now, it's going to be a day-to-day thing in terms of sorting through exactly where he's at and what the time frame might be. It'll be difficult to put any real timeline on it until we give him more time to settle. What was the injury? He's got a head injury, so we'll have to see where that is. He's got some other stuff as well.

But like I said, it'll have to be taken a day at a time in terms of seeing really where he's at. Concussion? I think I've answered the question. Well, you didn't. The question was, was it a concussion or not? We're still at that place, guys.

We're still at that place where we don't like using the C word. It's the word. It's important. But it is crazy that he's like, he's got some other stuff going on, too. What else has he got going on? A little from column A, a little from column B. A little column from C, D, and E, apparently. He's still symptomatic.

We were a couple of days later, and he's symptomatic. So that means... You probably have to be asymptomatic for, what, a week before you can play? Maybe 14 days, 10 to 14 days. Has he got COVID? Have we allowed COVID jokes yet? No? Okay. he's got COVID we love COVID jokes yet I just

and that's has to be factoring his history JB this isn't a guy that's just looking at this for a first time this is an ongoing thing and here we are on a Tuesday night and the incident

happened on Sunday night tomorrow the next day on a Tuesday night and the incident happened on Sunday night, you know, tomorrow, the next day, uh, symptom free. And then it's symptom free on a bike,

uh, driving your heart rate up. Yeah. Whereas the stress levels come back in, like you're not throwing them back in on the weekend. If he's symptom-free tomorrow or or thursday i hear you so let's so the season ends for them april 14th which is 10 days away or april 13th which is nine days away so he's very unlikely to play hockey pre-playoffs

very unlikely he will back up game one that is exactly what what I was going to get to. You think so? I don't see any way around this. I don't see a miraculous comeback. I don't see him putting himself in a position to to discard his

past history. He seems like an intelligent guy. He's won two stanley cups uh why put yourself in a position where you could you know further damage yourself or put yourself right out of the game it's like risk reward here yeah will he play another game for the leafs this season that's a good question the only reason I think it's a very good question is you just, there's no way to work him in. Like he can't go play Marley's games to figure it out, I don't think.

And I don't know that, I guess they would want him to. I don't know. Like it's so, it's tough to imagine being like, here's Tampa Bay in game three. You know, like you're fresh off a few practices. I don't know. So yeah, that's certainly something to keep an eye on. Listen, it's not like it was never there.

The conversation has been ongoing from the moment we heard Kyle Dubas trade for Matt Murray. We spent three weeks leading up to the deadline on it. Do you remember your comments? I remember you just being adamant that this is you can't trust that he's going to be available the the yeah you were shocked right yeah i remember reading like elliot's tweet that like the leafs aren't going to pursue something it's like how can you trust that this guy's going to be available not his fault not his fault bad luck but he has a history of bad luck not his fault. Not his fault. Bad luck. But he has a history of bad luck. No, it's not his fault.

But Kyle really rolled the dice on this one. And there were people in that organization that told him, don't go down that path. And you could sit there and you can counter by saying, okay, who's out there and what are our alternatives doing okay in la not like anyone on this show but to do that you know you are now at the mercy of fingers crossed nothing happens to samson off yeah you know there are plenty of you know if you have a conversation about this with any leafs fan

they're like you know sometimes the goalie gets thrown in there and goes on a run like there's the joseph wool maybe i don't know how many times i've heard the binnington comparison i know over the last two months yeah not just from you guys binnington got in the net january 1st and held it for half a season before he became the guy. And from the small sample size I've gotten out of Wall, he looks the most technically sound out of any of them. Big, quiet, love him. We're all, like, you can say, talk about pedigree, you can talk about whatever you want,

but, you know, most of Leafs Nation would tell you they're more comfortable with Joe Wall in the net than Matt Murray. That's interesting. Do you think so? I mean, I think you'd be trying to sell yourself on 2016 pretty hard if you didn't agree with that. Yeah. Well, like, what has he shown this year other than being really solid, Joe Wall? Yeah, well, Murray just got off to a good start.

Gun to your head. Playoff game. You still want Murray full strength over Joe Wall. Yeah, I do just i don't joe walls also had injury issues yeah this is really his first full pro season where he's he's had a very good year yep i don't know what's happening with the marley's in the last week and a half did they go in a bit of a skid? They did.

I believe they pulled out of it and won their division. Yes. Maybe they won. Yeah, they got division. They got home ice. But I think the last week and a half, two weeks, they hit their first real big skid. Yeah.

Was Wall involved in a couple of those games? I don't know. I can see his numbers for the year. I can pull it up. Regardless, it's been a very solid year. How many games do you think he's played total this season? Between the Marlies? He was out early, right?

Yeah. I want to say 35. He's played 25 hockey games this year. 25. Four for the Leafs. Yeah. That's it? Yes.

Yeah. So that's it yes yeah so that's why i so you gotta take a taper expectations yeah on on where you think he you could go with this guy yes i think that's fair and how old is wall before we get to luke fox he is not is he 25 98 so that makes him yeah this he'll turn 25 this year which is still very young oh yeah right for sure okay let's welcome in luke fox sportsnet.ca and our resident uh ask the tough questions for the real kipper and born show look what's going on guys good good we haven't really thought of one just yet but uh it's brewing it's brewing you got it right you're right inon's face, man. You go in there and you just stare him right down and you say,

Hey, listen, you tell us right now, Matt Murray, concussion or no concussion? Oh, it's a sensitive topic right now. I don't know if you guys have been playing the clips, but he referred to it as a head injury. And then he was asked for clarification if that meant a concussion. And he said, I think I already answered the question. So, I mean, this guy has a concussion history. That's how his tenure with the Senators ended.

He had them in Pittsburgh. So your heart goes out for him. But, you know, they're, they're saying no timeline on his return. And it looks like the Samson off and wall show, you know, probably into the playoffs. Like I don't see a quick return here, but you know, you don't want to count them out. But we'll just have to see what happens, but you're trusting two guys that together have one playoff win, like one playoff game win.

And both are having great seasons, so you cross your fingers that, you know, they can have some and enough magic to get it done against Andre Vasilevsky, who was just named first star of the week. Yeah. You know, you've got an article up right now on sportsnet.ca um you know matt murray's playoff availability in doubt i didn't know that his save percentage was down to 903 that was jarring um but looking at that like do you think that there's some good to come from the idea that there's clarity it's samsonov like they're gonna go with samsonov

there's no debates he's the guy wool probably the backup like we were talking at the start of the show I don't even know what Kipper was saying you know like if Samsonov or sorry if Murray ends up on the bench at all in game one no I mean you know we'd just be guessing but it's trending that way what I what I thought was kind of interesting was that uh this morning so we keep mentioned that internally they had been talking about trying to get wall from starts anyway even if murray was healthy uh so the organization's high on the kid he's having a fantastic season down on the farm uh he's been called up for four games so far and he's three and one and and played admirably you just worry about um you know playing some you know regular season games here and there

is a far different cry than the the bright lights of a a very very critical playoff series so um i think inexperience will will come into play but on on the flip side both these goalies are playing well samson looked really strong he didn't have the greatest night Sunday against Detroit, kind of thrown in and playing both halves of the back-to-back. But he was fabulous in Ottawa. His confidence, like he's flashing the leather and kind of not allowing a lot of rebounds. He looks strong. He's happy.

He actually was telling us before Murray went down that he was hoping he'd get a lot of starts, a lot of work. He wants a bunch of work to keep his timing sharp heading into the playoffs. And now, you know, by default, that's probably what he's going to get. We're talking to Luke Fox, Leafs and NHL writer for Sportsnet.ca. We're going to witness again Mitch Marner to the rescue. Got a problem with your line call Mitch 1-800

yeah I think Sheldon Keefe might have been reading your diary today Kipper because he said any line Mitch goes on he makes it better I was like that sounds like something Kipper would say on a show he's listening now he's getting

Nylander and Tavares. Pretty star-studded second line there. And I think it's to get Tavares going. His even strength production has basically fallen off a cliff. And Kiefer said that's partly due to Nylander himself slipping a little. To his credit on the power play, Tavares has been awesome. Top five last I checked are right close to it league-wide in power play points. But even strength, there's been this pretty significant drop-off

when Marner and Matthews were together, and Tavares and Nylander were kind of struggling to find their way. So he's the fixer, right? If your line's struggling, then you get Mitch. We saw the reverse happen. When Marner was with Tavares and Matthews wasn't finding his game, he got bumped up, and all of a sudden Matthews feels a little happier. So I'm hesitant to think that a top line of bunting Matthews' yarn crock

is really what we're going to see in game one. I think ultimately Marner would go back up there and maybe when O'Reilly's healthy, that's where he practiced today. Maybe he's on that second line with Tavares for a bit of a one-two punch. But that's what they're rolling with right now. And Yarncroft, you know, to his credit, he's having a really strong season. He's knocking on the door of 20 goals. Yeah, no, it's been a nice little run for him and i just think there is some risk at the team getting too excited about what he is he's shown us what he is for years and years and probably not a top

line guy so hopefully they find a measured use for him speaking of find a use for guys we haven't listened to the clip on gustafson yet i know we we have one in the can here. Just about how he has returned or is returning to Toronto. He hasn't been skating for a while. We don't really know what's going on with him. Do you have any idea? What's the deal? Yeah. No, I don't have any dirt.

It's personal reasons. And to be honest, when it's personal reasons, I don't really go digging too much. But we'll ask him. Good for you, Luke. We'll ask him when we see him. Like, who knows? You can just speculate. It could be anything.

But the tone of personal reasons, it didn't sound like happy news, like a baby was on the way type of thing. Right. So that'll be the player's choice to whether he wants to talk about it or not. But they tried to get him in in time for the morning skate. Couldn't get a flight that quick. So he's going to participate in warm-up tonight but will not play. But, yeah, I would expect, you know, keep guys up and running.

It's only going to have five games left to get him some more reps. So I expect he'll be back in the lineup pretty soon is there a sense at all that you know maybe a week ago or or further that they they planned on load management we haven't really seen this in the past but is there a sense now that uh they they that's the path that they'd like to take but as said, another loss potentially tonight changes the dynamics of home ice advantage. Yeah, that's exactly it. There's that balance there.

And absolutely, they've had meetings with guys and talked to them. It started with the defense basically saying, you're going to be on a rotation. And then Gustafson's departure kind of freed them up to get guys a little bit more reps. And now they're starting to do the same thing with the forwards. I think it started, honestly, in New Jersey when Tavares missed that one game. I think he probably could have pushed through it. And then, you know, obviously on Sunday, Mitch Marner misses his first game.

They kind of waited for his point streak to die in Ottawa before giving him a game off. It wouldn't shock me at all if Austin got a game and Nylander got a game. I mean, Nylander, right this morning, was given the option to take a mandatory, otherwise mandatory, morning skate off. And Keith gave Tavares and Austin the same option. We're getting into load management here.

I think it's going to be hard for them to lose a home ice advantage, but imagine that that game actually means something when they're down in Tampa next week. That would be something, but Tampa has to stay incredibly hot and the Leafs have to

blow it on nights like this against columbus you know even with some of the load management stuff even with some injuries kerfoot has not like cemented himself as a guy who's going to play huge minutes he's to find himself on the fourth line with abruzzese tonight and achari i'm not going to say his stock seems to be falling, but he's probably not a part of the top six, a place he's found himself fairly regularly this season, eh? No, I'd be stunned if he's in the top six. Especially the way Yarncroft's been playing.

I don't see a spot for him there once Ryan O'Reilly's back, especially. As long as they're at full health. I mean, this is just the life of Alexander Kirkwood. You play on every line throughout the year. And, you know, Keefe is happy to do it, and he's not going to grumble one bit. He doesn't care. He's just happy to be part of the team and will do whatever he's asked.

One more, Luke, for us, and it just goes with bunting. There was some talk maybe that I think Sheldon Keefe sent out the kind of vibe that maybe Kyle or Brendan would get to the league and maybe figure out what's going on with bunting and just the thought of him not getting the benefit of the doubt on calls? Is it kind of a non-issue as we move forward here or is there kind of a ripple effect going into tonight? I think it's an issue and

yeah, it's very rare for Sheldon Keith to criticize the refs publicly the way he did Sunday night and he said twice actually that Kyle would be speaking to the league about the treatment Bunting's getting from officials. And I think this all has to do with the urgency and the stress that's going on inside those walls,

knowing that the playoffs are only two weeks away, knowing that special teams have played a huge factor in their demise in the first rounds of past. And one, you know, bad penalty or a non-call or bunting not getting the benefit of the doubt. You could just see that, like in your mind's eye, you can see that coming back to bite them. So I think they want to get ahead of it. Of course, you know, the way it works is both teams meet with the head official before every playoff series and kind of express some concerns that they're given that

platform during the series. But I think they're just trying to get ahead of it because that is what, that is one of their worst fears is that another bad penalty costs them. And they just want, you know, bunting to be given fair ground with, with the stripes because basically is he used to be drawing a ton of penalties. He's still drawing a ton of penalties, but now he's taking a ton and it's almost to the point where it's evening

out. And, you know, I talked to him today a little bit. And basically he said that, you know, he's not going to change his approach. This is the style of game that got him into the NHL as a long shot, late blooming guy and he's not going to change where he goes or how he plays. But the complaining after

it has to stop. I think he can't worsen his relationship with the refs. Have fun tonight, Luke. Thanks for doing this. Okay. Enjoy the game, guys. Thanks, doing this. Okay. Enjoy the game, guys. Luke Fox, Sportsnet.ca does some terrific work. Asks the tough question every once in a while.

I like that about him. For sure. I know we're going to break in a couple minutes. I've just come to the conclusion about a minute ago that I think load management is crapola. Okay.

Yeah. If you don't want to play a guy because you think he might be hurt or get hurt, okay, there's nothing I would think that would be of scientific proof that suggests that if you aren't eating well, sleeping well, you know, all of it. That you can't just continue to play the game. 82 games. Go into the playoffs. Have success.

And enjoy your summer. Yeah. I get, you know, the idea of like feeling good. You take care of your body. You have all those tools at your disposal. You should be able idea of like feeling good and you take care of your body you have all those tools at your disposal you should be able to get yourself feeling good you know you're more likely to get hurt if you play 82 games and if you play 81 right there's just another game something can happen based on the percentages you know that's right you know so i know the leafs have a lot of hockey down the stretch and maybe that evens out a bit tonight after they play but i think they had seven games in the span tampa had five games if if there's one guy that looks like he's got an

engine that just won't quit it's 16 and he i've said this before you've complained about his ice time several times this year be the be the last yes for. And if you want to play 18 minutes, 17 minutes, take him off the penalty kill, I get all that. But to sit him out on a game where he's going to come to the rink anyways and watch the game, how much of a day off is that? How much is that mental stress or whatever load physical mental emotional do you think you're sparing mitch marner by him sitting out sunday night i think he got he got took a slap shot in the spine in ottawa oh yeah and he like went like oh oh yeah and keith was probably like all right

maybe a shoulder is bothering him maybe i. Maybe. I get that. But then that's not load management. That is tending to an injury. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'm on the other side where I'm in favor of it as long as you're able to get your team together and have some runs together. If you could clinch home ice and then ice the Marlies, that would be my ideal scenario. Imagine tonight, you know, Matthews gets hurt playing Columbus or something or, you know, I'm just, you know, whatever.

It's not because you made a stupid decision. It's because you just got hurt. Yeah. I get that point. It's just you lower the risk of it happening. So I get your point. And I like the idea of having this team have some run together. They've just

been locked into the spot for so long and it does mean something for for Mitch now to be I guess the fourth player in Leaf history to hit the century mark in points I think it's important that Willie Nylander still flies away to become a 40 goal scal scorer. I think Austin, on an off year, would still also like to hit the 40. This stuff means a lot to these guys. Do you think after scoring 60, 40 matters the same way, Kip? I think it's better than telling people that you scored 30-plus one year. Yeah, I do. Okay, that's fair.

No, I'm not pushing you. I was just wondering. I don't think it's a be all end all we went into this season with you saying yeah i don't care about that stuff this is you know it's over no chases for whatever playoffs you know i get the guys would prefer to have it happen yeah i think marner deserves a chance to get to 100 points yeah he's a 100 point player who's he never got there right and he's yeah he needs five points he'll probably do it tonight yeah he's there's a chance he doesn't and the chances are if they hit those marks they're coming in with a little bit of juice

they're coming in feeling good they're yeah right yeah you'd prefer to see it for me it's all kind of tied in who's close here we got yeah kneelander and mat and Matthews both at 37. Marner at 95 points. Yarncroft one from 20. There's a few guys. Alright. You want to hear Keef on his decor as we continue to watch for that? Not necessarily

other than obviously Riley Brody is something that we've used a lot and we're very comfortable with as we are with Gio and Lily on McCabe and Hall have done really well in a small sample. So it's something else we want to look at while also just kind of continuing to cycle guys in and out. I just decided that I wanted to stay 12-6 here today. Gives them the chance to look at average easy, but more importantly just lets us have everything else a little bit more settled.

Shannon will get the day off tonight and he'll go back in against Boston. I think we've had a pretty good sample now of different pairings, so I think we can move on from that for a little bit here tonight and look at some things that have been a little more familiar to us. If you were to bet money on the percentages

of this being your pair in game one where would you put it riley brody no all three of them three all three i wouldn't put it that high because i think shen's in game one you do i do yeah geo lily is interesting because they had so much success for such a run of time and you know lilligren has struggled can he you know if he plays great tonight does he get some more looks there and changes the conversation I agree that as of tonight it feels like Shen would still be in over him but Shen over sorry Lilligren

and then yeah so Riley would go with Shen boy oh boy I tell you what that would that would kind of tick me off that you've built this thing up with Lilligren and then you have a change of heart at the last second for a style of Shen. And I'm not saying Shen's not important.

There's so many elements of Shen you'd love against Tampa Bay, and I get that. But the stock that I put into Lilligren over the last few years to have them on the outside, looking in to start, I get a sense of, of failure on, on grooming, on developing.

Well, then someone, the onus is on them to take the step. Dermot got to here, never took the step, had to move on. Sandin got to here, never took the step, had to move move on lilligren's here now okay you know timothy like this is it you know and i don't know if he'll get playoff games to take that step but you may be

right that three guys who had potential didn't find a way to become something better and that would be a big loss you know given three draft picks they had hopes for. This is a big-time Hart versus Chart within your lineup. Yeah, this is the first clear deviation of Hart versus Chart because the Charts love Lilligren. Yeah. And they don't seem to be picking. There's a lot of people that would think it would be borderline insane. That's Kyle being conflicted with Hart versus Chart.

Sure. This is the clearest you know black versus white standoff i can remember from the gm's perspective that's interesting in it in itself okay let's take a quick break we're going to bring back jody shelly broadcaster for fox sports ohio we'll talk columbus and uh can they throw a wrench in the Leafs' last six games of the regular season? Jody Shelley, after the break, you're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born. Smart takes on the biggest stories in sports. The Fan Drive Time with Ben Ennis.

Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Toronto Maple Leafs and Columbus Blue Jacket set for puck drop at 7 p.m. at Scotiabank Arena. Jody Shelley now joins us to help tee that one up. Jody, how are you, man? I'm doing great. Just great. How about you guys?

Yeah, we're hanging in. You know, watching these last half a dozen games go by, obviously mean different things for different teams. Watched Columbus throw a big wrench into the ottawa senators sunday night so i gotta think that uh internally there's there's always something to play for here these last few games for them yeah you know it's interesting right because on the, it's all about trying to stay at number 32. But when you've got Boone Jenner as a captain, Sean Corrales as a leader, and then a bunch of call-ups, I mean, you can't go in that locker room and ask the players not to compete.

That's not part of the program here. But, you know, you've got a goalie in John Gillies who hadn't played in over a year starting in net against the Ottawa Senators. He gets the win. You've got some young call-ups who are trying to make an impression after a bad outing against the Florida Panthers. And they just kind of stuck with it and got that win. So it's a delicate thing here for this organization

as you watch the lineup they put out there. I mean, the lineup the last few games would not have been eligible for a preseason game where you need eight veterans. That's where they're down to now. But they're still finding a way to get, like, a point from Boston, two points the other night. So they like the attitude and what the coaches are bringing out of them. But I think as far as the standings,

they'd still like to stay towards the bottom for the long term. Well, yeah, and I guess you can, you know, the coach and gm can put that together but the players themselves are never going to go out there and not try um you know looking at their roster right now in terms of i guess what will be there when they're good is there are there many pieces there right now that are going to be a part of what it looks like when everything gets turned around in columbus yeah i think there will be and i think that's something this year justin that they learned it's like ken johnson's had an opportunity a lot of different positions and now he's on the number

one power play which is kind of because of necessity and this guy's stronger on the puck than you think he's got a great stick you. There's things that you learn about him. So I think they've got enough talent in their top six that they're actually going to have to move some pieces out of there. When healthy. There's obviously some pieces that they've really tested and been disappointed in as well. Some underachievers. When you look at the Blue Jackets, there's got to be the character there.

Some of these guys have been tested, and I don't think they've passed the test. So it's going to be the character there. And, you know, some of these guys have been tested, and I don't think they've passed the test. So it's going to be a big offseason. I mean, look at Zach Wierenski, number one defenseman. That's in place. The goaltending is in a little bit of flux right now. Tarasov has been injured most of the year. Elvis hasn't found his game.

Jack Greaves is starting tonight, first National Hockey League game. They've been through the gamut with that. But there are some young pieces that I think have made impressions. And when you look at Kirill Marchenko with 21 goals, you know, he's dangerous out there. And, you know, it's not the ideal season, but you look for some bright spots, and I think there are some pieces here.

Do they need to add to it? Yes. I think there's definitely some holes in this lineup that they're well aware of. And it starts with the center and the defense for this team. And Jody, two stars that are still in play here, Johnny Goudreau and Patrick Laine. Let's start with Johnny Hockey first. Almost a pointy game.

No question a disappointing season on a whole. But what have you seen out of him this season in terms of where this thing is heading with him and building around him and just the overall vibe with Johnny Hockey this season? Yeah, you know, he's that coveted free agent. He comes in here, created a big buzz in the market, Kipper, and then, you know, it looked like he was starting to get chemistry

with Patrick Laine right away, and Laine goes out. And Johnny's played with a lot of different teammates. And I kind of got the sense early on that he was getting a little frustrated with just the whole circumstance of what was happening. But then the last third part of the season, it seems like he just said, oh, forget it.

I'm just going to play hockey, work with the guys that I understand, like, you know, Ken Johnson, Marchenko, Boone Jenner. And he's developed, you know, he's not a driver all the time, but when he is, you kind of feel like he's understanding, like there's a bigger role for him here with the Blue Jackets. And I think that's been good for him. It hasn't been a great season overall.

Obviously, there's been a lot of that disappointment with him and seeing this organization, but I think he's taken a step in the regard of figuring out that it's on you a little bit, Johnny, to kind of show how this has to go and bring those points. So he's picking up points quietly, but I like what he's done.

Patrick Wynne, he's still that guy that you really want more out of him. Like, he's that guy that, you know, he'll be great for games and seem engaged and interested. And then there's games where he falls off. Now, he did move to the center-rights position. Sean Crowley went out. He took it upon himself to say, I want to be the 6'5 centerman.

We saw him there a few games. He looked interested. He looked up for the challenge. He's engaged with it. And he admitted he admitted himself you know he might need that like he knows that sometimes he's not bringing it so he's still a piece that's not gonna fight to get on top of the wave but if the wave's coming and it's big he'll jump on a cruise on it you know what i mean and that's he's a complimentary piece right at this point so how do you judge a coaching staff when the roster is so stripped down as the Blue Jackets have been here as they try to pick up Conor Bedard?

Yeah, that's a really good question. And, you know, that's something they're doing every day. I mean, can you really judge a coach who you give a deck of cards and, you know, he's missing half the deck? And, you know, you strategize off the season with lines and combinations and goaltenders and hoping that there's overachievers and there's all those things mixed together so that, you know, the coach can do a game plan.

But, like, limited practice time, frustration with, you know, players not available, players in and out of the lineup. And I think you can assess a little bit, though. You know, there's something there as far as holding the culture of the team and the expectations and not allowing losing to be acceptable. Even if it's a practice after a loss, it's got to be, you know, there's a tone to be set there.

That's what I believe in. And I would say probably you guys do too. It's like that's what I would be assessing them on this year. It's like, is this the greatest coaching challenge of your career? And how do you embrace that? Or is it, yeah, it's, you know, and of course there's going to be levels of frustration, but I would look through all that and say, you know, this is a challenge. Like, how do you accept this challenge? I know you're probably not going to get the results but hey

that brand of hockey you're playing is exactly what we expect so it's somewhere in between there i think that's how they would assess it we're talking to jody shelly former national hockey league player broadcaster with fox sports ohio talking columbus blue jackets when we look around the league there's some question marks in terms of general managers, some because if it's a contract situation like Kyle Dubas, others because there's a ton of pressure. Where is Jarmo Kekulain in all of this in terms of, you know,

solidifying that he still has all the answers moving forward here to turn this thing around. I think about scenarios like in Pittsburgh with Ronnie Hextall and just the market and how much pressure those guys feel within that market. Where's Yarmou in all of this? Yeah, you know, he's been here for for 10 years they've won one playoff round um he lost some free agents due to their decision to leave there's been a now a movement here to pull back into a retool um i think again with the injuries uh and seeing what he does in the off season where

he makes most of his moves i think he he's fine for now, Kipper. I think he's one of those guys that's established kind of the brand of hockey they want to have here. But we'll see. I mean, it's one of those jobs that, you know, how long will it last? I would say the market is getting a little impatient, and I think the Johnny Goodreau signing actually sped that up a little bit, you know, and to be expected.

The hope is to get Conor Bedard, of course, but what are the chances of that? But if they do, then I think everything maybe gets even sped up a little bit. But I would say for now he's safe because he's done a good job with the organization in his tenure. How can you assess him on these injuries? And then what is he going to do in this offseason? But I think, you know, with the expectations, I think something has to happen in a big movement compared to this season for him to be, you know, get back on top of that. Jody, Columbus has proven itself a good hockey market.

You know, the hockey hasn't, you know, success hasn't always come like the city would have wanted it to, but the fans continue to show support. So what would it mean for Columbus to get Conor Bedard? How does that change the equation of things in the city of Columbus? You know what? We got a glimpse of it, let's say, twice in the organization's history. And it was the sweep of the Tampa Bay Lightning, the buzz in the city,

the fringe fan, the fans who are just proud to be Columbus sports supporters, and of course the hockey fans. And then when they signed Johnny Goodrell, you know, that was a big deal. A free agent the fans didn't think would be even in the equation to come to Columbus. There was a pop in the market in July. The buzz was there and the anticipation and the excitement of having that. There's a lot of pride with that. So if they got Conor Bedard, I would expect it to be probably the biggest excitement this organization has

ever seen. You know, the best they've done in the lottery, I think has gone from three to two or four to three with the Dubois draft. And, you know, there's a little bit of that there where, oh, you know, we don't get it. We always get the short end of the stick. There's a little bit of that. But I think with the Goodrow, and if they get this, it would completely ignite the entire market.

And it's a massive sports city. I mean, they get 105,000 people at a football game on a Saturday in September, inside the building, 30,000 outside. The town shuts down. So they expect excellence. I mean, that team only loses one game a year. So with this team, they've been waiting, but things like that need to happen for this to be sped up.

Jody, can you add picking Rick Nash up there with big moments? Yeah, absolutely. That was so early on. We're looking at 23 years here now, right? That was a big moment. I know that was a big move for Doug to go and get that. I was in the

locker room when they got him. It was a big deal to have the top pick. Those are the moments, those are probably the three moments you look at where now you have a superstar. Hey Jody, have a great call tonight. We really appreciate your time, man.

Yeah, thanks for having me on, guys. Great job. Appreciate it. Have a good day. Thanks, Jody. Giving us some thoughts on Columbus and just listening to him talk about that lineup right now and i'm like oh my god there's just not a chance to at least lose tonight there's just not a chance like uh i'm gonna go back with money on marner points as soon as we're off air i promise hey marner gets a hundred yeah tonight i almost send you guys screenshots of their lineup tonight

because you could play a game like real player or not. I should make up a name and see it. No disrespect to these individual players. You can name me half their team, and I'm like, you made that up. Their fourth line tonight is Jonah Luodo, Josh Dunn, and Hunter McCown. Marcus Bjork is paired up with Billy Sweezy on D. And who else? I mean, I'm not going to, because I don't mean,

I don't know crap on these guys, but like, they are not NHL established players. They're trying to lose hockey games to the organization. They want Conor Bedard. They're doing the right thing. They have prospects. They got a million picks. It's all going great.

But their team tonight is absolutely effing awful okay if they lose tonight you're doing the first block tomorrow by yourself i think who me brandeo just just drop this boom bah we'll get chat uh gpt to do the first talk tomorrow we'll hook chat gpt up to like a Furby or something. That's just awful. He all but admitted like, you know, we're trying our best to finish 32. Yeah. Their D tonight are Gavin Bayreuther, Andrew Peek,

Tim Burney, Boquist, Bjork, and Sweezy. Sweezy. And the goalie is playing his first NHL game ever. Yeah. I'd like to introduce you to Mitch Marner, Austin Matthews. Yeah. Marner's going to find Matthews on through the seam, and Matthews is going to shoot one through his collarbone.

Welcome to the league. But this is the type of game they suck, isn't it? Listen, boys. I've been watching too much Leafs hockey over the past I was going to say over the past I was going to say

after the past couple years my entire life my entire life and Leafs have lost worse than this. Really?

Buddy they lost the Ducks this year. They lost to a team with a Boney driver in it. See, Chris. Well, these guys got Goudreau. I guess.

Yeah, I guess. Lyon-A can shoot it in the net. Kent Johnson can wrap it around. Lyon-A's not playing. Okay, then. Well, he's not in the lineup. I played on a Hartford team that missed the playoffs, and honestly, God, we just.

Should have got relegated. No, but we just, it was, it was, we love just coming in and trying to catch teams snoozing. Well, I will say my university program, we finished eighth to 10th in a 10 team conference all four years. And you go and play Minnesota Golden Gophers there and it's not going to lose baby. It's just fun, right?

It's just everybody expects you to lose and that's when you, as an athlete, you're almost programmed to have people outside of Conor Bedard look at you and go, yeah, you're not going to make it. You're not good enough. And it's like, I'll show you. I'll show you.

That's 98% of, you know, athletes. Well, and their fourth line tonight of luoto dunn and mccown surely want to prove that they belong in the league you are getting a hundred percent effort from guys that at this time of the year your most guys are giving you 80 um ken johnson may have scored the filthiest goal of the year though the pull through the legs but against against the grain in the flow michigan that is i cannot tell you how annoyed I would be if I was Mike Legg and I was the first person to do that and everyone called it the Michigan and not the Legg.

Yeah. But anyway. I've got big time Michigan fatigue now. Yeah. It's like, ah, I don't even think it's cool. Adam Oates buried it with a scoop of, threw dirt on the casket on the Michigan. Oh, yeah.

It's like, how many times has Zegers pulled it off? Two? How many times have you tried it? And I was like, 15. He was like, try hundred three hundred or whatever he said oh okay just burying his client on air hey the man's a hall of fame yeah he can see what the hell he wants speak the truth the hell he wants he's adam oates the truth and deal with it col Columbus picks in the first round twice. They have their pick and LA's pick. They have their second rounder. They have

two third rounders. They have two fourth rounders. They are, them and Montreal, I think, just all the picks this year. They're just going to let Yarmou keep doing it, though, eh? Yeah, I don't know how I feel about that. I think I'm okay with it. I believe in the guy, too. What is it, one out of ten in the playoffs?

Oh, my God, he'd be gone three years. How many organizations would he even be around? One out of ten, and going into year 11, you finished 32nd. Or 31st. After you signed the biggest free agent. To a big contract. It's just a matter of you have to eventually win no matter what market you're in, and they haven't won.

So tough to make the case that they should carry on the same path. So, fellas, I put out a poll during our show about the goaltending because I was interested to see if I was on an island with this. Yes. And I said, trust tree time, Leafs Nation. Who would you prefer starting a playoff game at full health? Joe Wall, Matt Murray. And after 273 votes?

I bet you Murray 60. Joe Wall 60%, Matt Murray 40%. And 280 votes now. So I'm not alone. No, you're not. You're in the majority. Well, there'd be be 60 of those as frustrated as sheldon is through his tone and shortness in his cut in his comments you know luke kind of

snuck in the idea that they wanted to get wall games even if murray was healthy yeah we had that conversation too yeah but like do you think there's a chance that they would have looked Matt Murray under contract for another year and said, we just think he's better. I just can't ever have seen that happening. And do what with him? Put him on IR? What are you doing?

Are you trying to win hockey games? Are you trying to... You can't bury $4 million. There's no salary cap in the playoffs. I thought you were referring to even next year. Oh, well, see, that can happen for sure, and I think that may happen. But I do think it would have been interesting

if this year, while he's on the team, they said, we just think you're our third goalie. So you just hope that he hurts himself in training camp and you put him on IR? Never hope that. I think there's a chance he's on a cruise ship to Robida Island next year. Like, I think there's a chance we would never see him start again. Yeah, but you got to,

you also have to have a willing participant in Robida Island. Yeah, like, would he want to stop putting himself at risk? If he's fit and I want to play, then you have to eat his salary and in on your roster even if you send him to the minors is there any case in history of a guy just sitting out a full season just to try to like get his body back to normal than trying to come back like i thought he did that last year in ottawa well he played in some games didn't play a ton what is his total in the last two years can you just look it up real quick did he get

25 starts in ottawa last year uh he got and we are loading and i have it he played 20 games last year 20 and the year before he played 27 and this year how many did he get in 26 this year yeah that's a that's a tough grind man and his like his goals against and say oh man it's just not good um there's no way i mean there's no denying or doubting that it's training for for wall right yep so but you know how quickly as early as uh game one uh backing up and backing up starting october you know wall's performance tonight could change things about how they look at playoffs because i don't know that wall's going to get another game well there's a back-to-back he can pitch a shutout and we'd they look at playoffs because I don't know that Wolves are going to get another game. Well, there's a back-to-back next week. He can pitch a shutout and we'd all

look at that lineup and go, you know, I mean, is he going to... Put him in Boston. Do you think that roster has the ability to fire 40 shots on goal tonight? If the Leafs have that team take 40 shots tonight, they

should feel great shame. There's panic in it itself. If they give up 40 shots tonight to that lineup. That will be the full sign that they mailed it in for tonight. All right. So I don't know. If he can carry himself, you'll be more impressed if he carries himself with a professionalism attitude than anything he could really do against columbus tonight yeah even even if he pitches

what if he gets scored on six times tonight then how do you feel well bad yeah that's that i delete all my tweets that that changes uh the narrative yeah for sure yeah. But I don't see that happening and I don't see this team close tonight. And this is coming off somewhat of an embarrassing loss to Detroit on Sunday in my opinion. And you know, Lilligren's perfect in a game like

this, playing with Giordano. I like their decor tonight. Looks like a very good version of themselves. They got a super line and a Matthews line. Leafs have six. I know we we always do this exercise but we haven't done it with joe wall now who's the backup goalie six games left jackets bruins habs panthers lightning rangers how many is joe wall starting i think that florida tampa bay is the next and only other time he gets in so pick your poison there. As long as you've locked in home ice advantage by then.

You give him Tampa Bay. By the way, actually a good spot, right? If he's going to be your backup and he may have to play Tampa Bay. If Samson Olives struggles for a couple games or whatever, I think not a bad idea to put him in in Tampa Bay. Don't show Tampa. Ilya in Tampa? Don't show him that no no we said

that a week two weeks ago too yeah we said that's the one that you can pencil joseph wallen we said that before murray even got hurt yeah god we're smart they should be listening maybe they listen to the show we we lead the league in back backpack backp What are you trying to say in here, mama? All right. All right. Okay. Eric Francis is going to tee up another big game tomorrow night. They're calling it game number 79 for the season.

Are they calling it that? No, I am. Okay, cool. We're talking Calgary and Winnipeg. Eric Francis after the break. More real Kipper and Born after these words everything Raptors before

and after the games the Raptors show with Will Lou subscribe and download the show on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts this is real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 the van big couple of games lined up for the calgary flames starting tonight

versus chicago and talk about teams worried about uh playing lesser teams and whether it's a given or not they're gonna end up with two points that may be one of them big one looking past them eh and then 24 hours later uh biggest game of the year calgary versus winnipeg jets let's bring in eric francis now oh my god i've worked so hard on that opening. It's nice. I've written something down. I would be worried if I'm Daryl Sutter about my team looking at the Blackhawks and thinking of the Jets. You know, thinking about the next game that is must win.

How do you get your team focused on the Blackhawks? Well, seems like they're getting warmed up. A waste of eight days. At the right time. What was that? Can I hear that one more time, Daryl? A waste of eight days. That was anyone who plays Colorado last year.

It was going to be a waste of eight days. He nailed that. Yeah. Nashville went up there and got beat four times. I know in overtime a bunch. There's always a chance that a team could rally and get, you know, get to game five or six or seven. They didn't see game five.

It was a real late day. Okay. I had a great opening for you, but I'm not doing it again. So let's just say hi there. Oh, I missed it. I'm sorry, bud. Was it complimentary? Oh, it was fantastic.

One of the best we've ever had at sports net um but sammy forgot to call you but well i i'll take your word and i appreciate it if you said nice thing thanks man i appreciate that uh but we were mentioning that uh it's going to be an interesting 48 hours here or at least 24 uh if we if we get to puck drop soon enough with chicago but um is there a chance as jb had just uh mentioned that you're getting ahead of yourself with chicago tonight before winnipeg oh my god yeah the calgary flames haven't beaten chicago this year i mean they're a juggernaut. Okay, enough said. Flames are 0-2 against Chicago this year, including the last time they played,

which was, I think, three weeks ago. And a guy named Jackson Stauber, Rob Stauber's son, was in that. I think it was his third NHL start. He got the win. They won 5-2. And the Hawks didn't even have Patrick Kane in the lineup because he was well, it was before the trade deadline, but anyway, it was a slaughter.

One of the biggest losses of the year. So there's a very real possibility this team will look past the Hawks as they've done all year long. But that said, this Flames team has got a little bit more swagger, confidence, which has been rare all season long

and they've actually got their longest winning streak of the year which is four measly games that they're riding right now so maybe it's a slightly different team and the stakes are obviously a little higher so I like to think they'll be a lot better tonight but it wouldn't shock anybody in this city if Chicago got the best of them

You know they've been a team all year long Eric where you've seen the pieces and you like them and you're kind of waiting for everything Wouldn't shock anybody in this city if Chicago got the best of them. You know, they've been a team all year long, Eric, where you've seen the pieces and you like them, and you're kind of waiting for everything to snap into place and for it to suddenly work. Watching them over this four-game win streak, is it possible that we found a snap-into-place moment, or does this look like the same team that struggled

for such a great part of the season? No, it feels like a snap-into-place moment, but, like, in this city city we've been waiting for that moment all year long and they'd only had two three game winning streaks all season long like that was the most they'd had until this four game whopper that they're on right now and uh they just can't see every time you think oh that was a one of those statement wins or snap into place wins as you'd call it. Every time we think that, then they fall flat on their face the next day.

So, you know, maybe this is different because, I mean, it's do or die now. You lose to Chicago, you can pretty much say it's over. You know, I don't know. We'll see. It feels different, though. I will say that. Just being in that room today, there was so much chatter and laughter. And as I've alluded to, alluded is not even the word. As I've strongly mentioned on this spot with you guys,

there's an issue in that dressing room revolving around the coach and the dressing room fun for God, I call it. But today and the last couple of days, there's a ton of energy. And they feel like they're on the cusp of doing something really interesting. So that's kind of interesting to see. Four-game winning streak, not huge, but something to at least look at. Where do you look first, the goaltending? Yeah, like, yeah, Markstrom's been a lot better,

but, I mean, their last two games, they've allowed four goals both games games so it's not like the goal tending has been brilliant in those games but prior to that you know what's kept them in this race for the last two or three weeks has been jacob markstrom and markstrom's gonna bounce back he got pulled last game uh he's gonna start tonight and he's definitely gonna start tomorrow too too no doubt about it this coach is you know basically announced about well with about 20 games to go that he was basically going to ride marks him every game from now to the end of the season and i think he's only started bloodar once since that moment so don't expect anything different five games left you'll see five marks from starts you know looking at some of the numbers for this team i'm sure you've heard it all by now but they get a ton of shots but not

a ton from the inside it's not like they got small guys or players who are unwilling to go to that dirty area why do you think the numbers show them as a team that is primarily a perimeter shooting team versus one that creates dangerous chances. Yeah, I think the coach and the system put such an emphasis on shot volume that it's a bit of a false stat. They have the NHL record. They've shattered it. It's an obscure record. I think I told you guys last.

They've had, I think, 23 games where they've lost this year despite out-shooting the opponent by 10 or more shots. That's pretty significant. And Jay Woodcroft took a shot at their system the last time they played saying they'd take a shot from their own end just to pad their numbers. And I think that's kind of the way it's been. It's not that noticeable from here, but I thought Ryan Huska, the assistant coach, said it really well.

He said, we think that a shot on goal is the hardest thing in hockey to defend because after the shot on goal nobody has any idea what's happening next whether it's a rebound whether it's a play in the corner whether it's a deflection you know whether it goes in and and that's the mentality so these players have bought into it and for better or, they're firing pucks like no other team in the league right now. They're on pace right now. If they miss the playoffs, they would be the first team. They'd have the most – God, this is obscure, but they'd have the most differential in shots ever in the history of the NHL

without making the playoffs. They're plus eight this year in shots on goal per game, and no team's ever missed a playoffs with that per game. So it's routine for us to see that. We're talking to Eric Francis, senior columnist with Sportsnet.ca. Eric, so much emphasis on the underwhelming season of Jonathan Huberto. But where is Mackenzie Weger in all of this as they continue to push forward to a playoff spot?

You know, every time I look up, it seems like he's doing something, you know? Yeah. Yeah, you nailed it, Kipper. Last month or so, or maybe even longer, it's really clicked, and he's the McKenzie Weeger that they figured they were acquiring in the trade last summer. So, you know, he's chipping in offensively. He's chipping in defensively.

He's been really solid. And all the stats back that up. And then last game, Lucic tied the game in the third period with a huge goal for this team to keep their season alive. But the whole play that made it happen was a massive shot block by Mackenzie Wieger that, as you guys know, that just lifts the bench so big. He's on pain.

He's in so much pain on the bench, and everybody's giving him huge hugs, and he's just wincing and wishing he could go to sleep. And meanwhile, they score a goal because of him. So that's the kind of stuff that goes a long way. And he's really become a leader on this team, which is what they expected when they got him. Eric, give us a sense for who are some doghouse and who are some penthouse players for old Daryl Sutter.

I know he is a guy who tends to like players who play a certain way. Are there some particular names who rank highly or at the bottom of his list? That's an interesting way of phrasing that. I don't know who's in the doghouse, but clearly him and Kadri are not seeing eye to eye on a bunch of different things. Kadri is basically a third-line center now and is playing with third-line wingers and getting third-line minutes, and that's not what they paid Kadri to come in here to be and do. So that's not working out as well

as I think they'd hoped at this point in time. So if you want to, you know, I'd say he's top of that list in terms of, you know, things that aren't going as well as they hoped. Huberto and the coach, I think that's pretty well documented as well. That's not been great, but Huberdeau's

found a way to be a lot better of late. And then in terms of guys who the coach loves, anyone who ever won a Stanley Cup is Darryl's favorite player of all time. And it doesn't even matter if it's on his team or the other team. And then Toffoli tops that list.

He's been praising Toffoli for years. He's the reason they traded for Toffoli last year. And good on him. Toffoli's been their best player this year. Full stop. End of sentence. His numbers are incredible for him. His attitude. His timeliness with goals. I'm not sure many

people thought Tyler Toffoli could be a first-line winger and be as productive as he has been. Tomorrow night, it's the Winnipeg Jets, and people are questioning where their offense has gone, and it just seems like they're hanging on by a thread here. What do you see in terms of Winnipeg on where it truly fell apart for them in this back half of the season?

Yeah, it seems like kind of like the Flames, it's kind of been a different culprit every night in terms of how they've faltered. Was it January 13th someone told me they were leading the conference and now they're on the cusp of potentially being knocked out of the playoff race? Like, that's an amazing fall from grace. And I got to tell you guys, just watching their last two games, they got 12 goals over their last two games and won both of them.

And just watching their celebration on the bench and the ice when they score, like, it's almost like they're trying to manufacture excitement and like, guys, we can do this. I know it doesn't feel like we can do it, but we can do this. Let's go. Let's go. And so, you know, maybe they have turned around over the last two. We'll wait and see. Tomorrow night's going to be great like not sure when the last time anybody ever said i can't wait to watch a calgary winnipeg game but it would have been back in the 80s i guess uh but but but but

that's what's going to be the case tomorrow it's a nationally broadcast game tomorrow and it deserves to be and everything's going to be on the line like if all things fall into place tonight uh they'll be going into tomorrow night's game dead even in points guys it doesn't get much better than that no with four games left in the season super exciting you know i've kind of made the case you know if the calgary flames or even winnipeg but you know get into playoffs it's not impossible to see them handling one of the one seeds. I mean, Dallas and Vegas are both teams with, I think, significant holes. Could you see this team sneaking in and then kind of doing something interesting? Yeah, I could.

I mean, I'm not sure I'm going to put money on it, but let's see who they match up against. I definitely know that they've beaten all the teams that they could potentially play in the first round. If they play Chicago in the first round, I don't like their chances, but if they play anybody else, the Flames could potentially shock some people. I would say maybe the one that maybe not, because I still think they're the class of the West, is Colorado.

And that whole phrase that Daryl used last year, which is, you know, you'd hate to play Colorado in the first round because that's eight days wasted. I still think that they're going to be the toughest out in the West. But no, Flames could hold their own against any of those teams because what's always so dangerous about an eight seed, and don't forget, Darrell Sutter took an eight seed to win the Stanley the stanley cup when he was with the la kings he also took the flames to the 2004 final after they barely squeaked in as the eight seed like you go in with momentum you go in with a bunch of wins you go in playing desperate in the playoff hockey ahead of

everybody else it can be a recipe for success so So, you know, the one thing we said last summer, boys, you know, the big debate in this city was, are they actually better without Kachuk and Goudreau? And, you know, and with the changes they made? Well, we know the answer is no. But the answer that I gave was, well, they may not be better, but they might be better prepared for playoff success. So maybe we'll find out.

One more for me, eric and that's just uh the edmonton oilers and uh right on the heels of of vegas we saw vegas win a a 4-3 shootout last night to distance themselves somewhat but is is this the team now that probably is the scariest one for for other teams to match up against? And is Ekholm the main reason? Edmonton is terrifying right now. I think if you're any team in the league, you're looking at them going, really?

Like, everybody knew what their problem was, goaltending and defense. And they went and addressed both. I mean, Campbell wasn't the answer, obviously, what their problem was, goaltending and defense. And they went and addressed both. I mean, Campbell wasn't the answer, obviously, but, you know, they kind of fell into Skinner, who's been, you know, very capable all season long. So I do agree with you. Not only do they have arguably the two best players in the world, but they also have some of the missing pieces

that led them to fall short last year in the conference battle. So I absolutely think that they're the scariest team right now. I mean, again, Colorado is still the class of the West until proven otherwise. But Edmonton is on some crazy roll right now. And it wouldn't surprise me if they ended up winning the West. No, for sure. All right, last one from me, Eric. Just want to get your thoughts.

If they don't make playoffs, what happens with sutter and tree living uh your guess is as good as mine i don't think both survive i i think one goes uh and and there's a chance that either one would go on their own volition like decide that they don't want to come back i i don't see that happening if it was sutter but i could see that happening with tree. So there's so many shifts that have to fall, not just in Calgary, but around the league, because, you know, for Tree Living to leave, there could be some real interesting opportunities that open up around the league where he might say,

you know what, I think it's time for a new challenge, and I think all these other teams in the league would be very interested in a guy like Tree Living to be their GM or maybe their president of hockey operations. Your guess is as good as mine. If they make the playoffs, I'm not sure it changes anything. If they go on a large playoff run,

that could change everything. We'll have to wait and see. Put it this way, I was planning and was all excited to go cover that New York series in the first round. The wheels were in motion because that New York series in the first round. And then I just, and the wheels were in motion. And because that's, you know, two weeks in Manhattan, who doesn't love that?

But, but to be honest, there could be so much carnage in Calgary. I can't leave this place anytime soon after the season ends. Cause I think there'll be a ton, a ton of carnage. And you guys know, I love carnage. You're going to go see hamilton get some italian food and here you are i gotta cover that something tells me yeah red we it might it might be interesting to see where that stuff lies after uh these two games for sure eric yeah really appreciate your time man thanks for doing this boys thanks and Kipper hey thanks

for the great intro whatever you betcha yeah I'll get I'll get Sammy to text it to you after the show there you go Eric Francis senior columnist Sportsnet Sportsnet.ca. Potential red wedding in Calgary. How many questionable management teams are out there right now? Do you think out of 32, if you kind of just went down the line? One of them's in blue and white. Look no further than your backyard, Mr. Denver. We do have a sense that, you know, right here in Toronto, that very important first round for many reasons, including what we believe that might be the future of Kyle and Sheldon.

Tell you what, the New York Islanders were to fall out of the playoffs if they were to lose. You could talk me into that becoming interesting you know they've just got ubs arena they decided to go all in they want it they want playoff games they traded for horvat are you speaking of uncle lou grandpa lou yeah Grampaloo, yeah. Come on. Well, I mean, they put a lot of pressure on this team to make playoffs now. This year, they got to make some money back. God, is it tight.

85, 86, and 87. Yeah, and the Islanders have won fewer game played, pal. Florida, Pittsburgh, and the Islanders, all within one point of each other. other yeah the isles have three non-playoff teams to close it out but they do have tampa coming up that's tough florida has buffalo tonight pittsburgh has new jersey tonight there could be a switch yes i'm just oh go ahead i'm gonna say what is fascinating is the way that, so like Florida and Pittsburgh both have three non-playoff teams and two playoff teams, but Pittsburgh plays the two playoff teams.

First, Florida's are last. So they may get less effort, less lineup. You know, like we talked about Joe wall playing for, by the time they get the, the playoff teams,

they not may not be dressing playoff lineups so to me florida has a bit of a leg up with the way their schedule falls toronto one of those games for the florida panthers to close out their season it's toronto and carolina game 80 and or i'm sorry 81 and 82 it'll be interesting to see well pittsburgh wraps up with chicago columb Chicago and Columbus. Trying hard. Oh, man. Those guys, those teams are dressing the three of us. But I'm just looking at,

you mentioned about how many teams around the league are, you know, solid. You're looking at the bottom of the standing. It's a lot of these teams have just kind of hired new. You know, you look at Chicago. It's pretty new there. They know what they're doing, right? Yeah. Anaheim, Pat for Beak.

How long has he been there? Two years, year Columbus, San Jose, pretty new Montreal, pretty new Philadelphia, brand new Vancouver, brand new.

Like it's a lot of teams that, that are at the bottom of the standing. Yes. No, no, no, no. The changes will come with high expectations and disappointing results here.

Where does that happen? We're talking around the playoffs here. Where does that happen? Right. So Toronto is one of them. You mentioned the Islanders, which kind of surprises me. I get it. I absolutely understand what you're talking about,

but we are talking about a legend in Lou Lamarillo, and that would be an awfully big decision from their ownership group. You know, maybe you would let him make that decision. You know? There's something in your throat? Yeah. Would you like to? You know to you know the playoffs last year don't feel my foot on your back but if you'd like to leave of your own volition edmonton go ahead edmonton on that list tough to argue with the moves they've made uh

but isn't ken holland is in what year of a five-year deal i thought it was isn't it's the last is next year his last year this isn't the last i don't think is this his third full season third or fourth i'm not sure which one it is well if it's fourth then last year next year would be his last year yeah uh he's fine nothing's happening there this offseason listen they lose in the first round i mean i'm telling you all bets are off i so i don't wish that on our canadian fellow canadian franchises and we followed them closely this year we've actually covered them i would say the second most of any team absolutely we've talked a lot of oilers um it would be interesting to watch how connor mcdavid would handle a first round exit like just because he's so competitive so passionate it would be

really hard to see him going you know be back next year and we'll be better for it bye guys like fire and brimstone i think you. You're cool. F*** you. I'm out. He took over in 2019, 2020. That's where Edmondson just has someone with him all the time. Yeah. Just to keep an eye on him, keep him happy. Just to keep an eye on him.

Yeah. He's your personal butler. Yeah, I agree with you. That would be, based on where they are right now and the mindset and how Ekholm has come in and really just changed the whole feel and the vibe. He has two more years, right? Yeah. And he's the – Skinner's still the wild card here.

Yeah. You know, if you end up – if Skinner kind of falters here, there will be criticism on Kenny Holland holland making the wrong decision on jack campbell that's a good point you know that's coming that's really the only place you look at this roster and you go he really may have made a large mistake there um well nurse as well i guess the other team which i can i find real interesting is pittsburgh because yeah they went through an ownership group the fenway group came in i think they inherited brian burke and ron hexdahl there's been a ton of pressure on ron hexdahl burkey doesn't appear to be that that you know linked

towards the players currently on the roster. It just seems to be more of the focus on Ron Hexdahl and where that ownership group is with Hexdahl in the offseason. If they miss the playoffs or, you know, make the playoffs and don't have a good showing, I don't think there's going to be much of a difference between making it or not making it for them to decide if they want to move forward with Ron Hextall.

It seems like the most unhappy fan base that comes up in my timeline for a team that's going to be in playoffs or around there. They're pretty upset with how things are going. Yeah. Did Zito save himself here? Bill Zito in Florida push coming off of a president's trophy and highest octane offense last season and high expectations. Or was there just a thought that the salary cap issues were just going to

catch up to this team? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, tough to say a guy saved himself when you fall that far in the standings. But if they make playoffs, it certainly does look differently. And depends what spot you get. Like if Carolina is going to be the one seed in the Metro and Boston's the one seed in the Atlantic, Carolina's a, you know, they lost Svechnikov.

They don't have Pacioretty. That's a, you know, they lost Svechnikov. They don't have Pacioretty. That's a, you know, their goaltending is a question mark. I don't think it's past Florida upsetting them or Pittsburgh or Islanders. So that would change things for me too. Outside of that, I think the only one that you're kind of wondering on is how the Washington Capitals feel about missing the playoffs. I really like what they did.

I really think, you know, to have this. Smart pivot. Yeah, to have the Stones to say this ain't our year. We're selling. They got a bunch of picks. You know, right now they're pretty close to the bottom. They got a lot of lottery balls for Conor Bedard. Could you imagine if Washington gets Bedard?ard you know it's not out of the question

so i like their pivot i even if he never even thought of that yeah look where they are yeah i can see yeah it just didn't dawn on me too that's what rats was doing not great bob no no not in the highlights i've seen anyway hey scott did he score another five points last night or did he have the night off listen boys he's played 15 he's played 14 games he's got 13 points yes oh it's less than a point of games yeah what a bum he is certainly getting points that he is playing lots and lots of hockey. Do you want to talk about that really insane story that we, I feel like we have to mention. Oh gosh.

Yeah. All right. So I'll just read this. The Russian hockey Federation confirmed the death of Andre Mishkov. So Matt V. Mishkov is the projected number two overall pick this year. A year ago was him or Bedard. Like he's a highly touted prospect a huge deal this kid and his dad can uh yeah the federation confirms the

death of mitch andre mitchkoff father of 22 23 nhl draft prospect matvey mitchkoff sports express reports the elder mitchkoff had been missing for the last two days and his body was discovered a pond an investigation is underway um jesus that's awful dark and awful i feel terrible for the cash you can't even imagine you know where he's at in his life and the and what should be now the best time of his life yeah anticipating being you know drafted in the best league in the world is now the worst moment of his life. Yeah, and I'm seeing, so he's under contract with the KHL team till 2026.

I'm seeing people talk about, like he won't come over here till after that, but you were saying it's possible. Don't those things get worked out or negotiated? That's if he wants to come, right? If his heart's set on becoming a national league hockey league player and again i don't i don't know the ins and outs of russian federations and how they how that works and whether or not um he's bound or they can negotiate with the federation buyout whatever needs to be done i have no idea but i do wonder if this would make teams a little

hesitant about mitch koff at all like worry you know i'm just talking from a hockey perspective because that the nhl draft will come up it will affect mitch koff and the nhl um you know that greatly affect a kid there's some there's some people that think that he he should be ahead of fanta fan fantilia yeah that that he could be second overall yeah you know and i it just i mean it's awful just just an awful story and you know to even try to talk about the hockey angle seems crass but it is going to affect the draft if if teams feel like they're not sure about what has gone on or how it will affect the mitch mitch kov camp well developing story there that

we'll keep an eye on he has 20 points in 27 games so far for uh sochi in the khl yeah and no one scores he's all power right yeah oh yeah nine goals in 27 khl games what is he 5 8 150 but he plays a heavy game doesn't he i don't have him watch one second of his game i saw a highlight of him score an unbelievable goal. Is he a left-handed shot? Oh, God, I couldn't tell you. You don't remember anything about him? No, nothing, man. Okay. No, but he's, you know, highly talented.

I'm not guessing. I'm not thinking. I know everything about the guy, but I think we did see him on occasion in the World Juniors. Did we not? Yeah. Yeah, he was there, and I believe he performed very

well if I remember. Yeah, but not this past one. I could know less about this guy other than people really like him. Heard he's really good. We're not Bukala here. We'll get Bukala on to talk about him. We are not.

Last night in the NHL, Kip, the Minnesota Wild yes we are not um last night in the nhl kip the minnesota wild blew a late lead to the vegas golden knights now that sees the minnesota wild tied for the division lead in the central with the dallas stars same amount of games left and a three-point lead in the pacific for vegas now four points up on edmonton big swing for the oilers last night vegas getting two points but uh colorado has seven games left and probably wins the central so there's that did you see the shootout last night? I did see the shootout, and I saw Havel Dorofeev for Vegas. Who scored two goals, including a late one to tie it up. 30 seconds left.

He's on the ice with 30 seconds left for Vegas? That guy? He's played 18 NHL games, scores, scores in the shootout. I love the shootout. Period? I love the shootout. I liked it a little bit more last night than i have in the past i just like it's you know it sucks i get that people want to go 10 minutes three on three people like ties

people but for me i know it sometimes stinks but i just love when guys get to show off one-on-one what they can do against a goaltender and there's not really that many opportunities in the flow of a game it's a skills comp it It's something completely different. I understand. It is a skills competition. But guess what? These guys are really skilled, and their skills win games a lot of time. Listen, I watched it, and I marveled at three of the shootouts. Riley Smith.

Eric Sinek destroyed Laurent Brassois emotionally in the process of scoring. He had the last move that he didn't need, but he did anyway. Just because. Yeah. Like, you couldn't split those legs wider. I could have skated right around him and shot at the net. Went back to the five. You could have put a TTC bus through those legs

by the time Eck was done with him. Yeah, it reminded me of Marchand ruining Samsonov's knee in the process of scoring because I thought Persuade was just a damaged man after that. It was just like, just cut it and shoot it in the bat. Like there was a wide open net and he's like, cut it back, go to the five hole. To me, my favorite of all of them is Riley Smith, full speed, hard pump fake to the backhand five hole.

I think backhand five hole is maybe the nicest and hardest thing to do in a shootout. That one's so good because he's coming he does it early he executes the five hole like it's a he's pretty far out from the crease when he actually makes the shot yeah he is absolutely flying yeah flying well and that's that's what's throwing off the 10d2 is that he's coming back a lot faster than normal to me that's like and we don't need to get into the ins and outs of the shootout here but i studied the shootout i love the shootouts netsoff stuff is worth talking about that's where the segue is because you got riley smith coming a thousand miles an hour and then you got kuznetsov who's in a turtle race he actually dumps the puck into the zone as he

skates onto it like he grabs it he pushes it, then he just kind of... Well, they... Did you hear Gretz talking about this on the TNT panel? That they should have it be that you have an eight-second shot clock in the shootout. Yeah. And he also wants you to not be able to take the puck out of the zone on three-on-three, which I also love. Yeah, let's not get too weird here, Wayne.

But... You can't bring it back out? It's like half the time spent checking back. I'm not trying to change hockey, but I'm fine with the shootout saying you can't but the other thing is like i don't think many players on earth could do it because netsov doesn't score so just before we go into any more detail on this because netsov love it or hate it hate it i hate it too hate it i am impressed by it doesn't bother me as much. Shocker.

As I thought it would. Yeah. Like it's, if you ask every player in the NHL to take a penalty shot at that speed, I don't know how many more guys can find a way to score. Patrick Kane. The hardest thing in the world is to score when you're barely moving. Yes.

Right. The goal is dead to rights. He can do it. Quick hands, man. Because of the skill. Yeah. So I understand why it's allowed. As long as you are advancing

your position as slow as it is, if you want to go in there and score based on your hand still being quicker than the reaction of the goalie why do you why is gretz and the rest of the world want to penalize him for that i think it's against the spirit of the game the idea is that we want to replicate a breakaway we want to see a moment one-on-one, like this is a thing that happens. Who's better at it? And this takes it.

This removes it from hockey and makes it slam ball. It's not a replica. There's no one chasing you. It's just you versus the goalie. You might be onto something here. Hey, how much better is the shootout with a chaser? There's three moves that work every time. Full speed, one pump low blocker.

Full speed, backhand top corner. Full speed, Merrick Malik. The average shooting success rate is like 30%. But Franz Nielsen scored 50% of the time with backhand cheese every time. True. You want to put a back checker? Yes, I do.

Oh, my God. I love that idea. On one knee. No, it doesn't have to be one knee. Okay. Turn your mic on, Kipper. To try to catch him. I love that idea. On one knee. No, that doesn't have to be one knee. Okay. Turn your mic on, Kipper. To try to catch him. I would love it.

That's an awesome idea. All of a sudden, No, it's not. Yes, it is. The guy ends up tripping him, and he smashes into Matt Murray, and he's out for six weeks. That's a great point.

Man, you just killed the whole conversation, because you're so right. You know, like, ing balls chasing from behind six foot six fast and sticks a stick in your skates. I just wrote the line to you guys and then I just hook you right in. Really disappointed that I got quashed so quickly. That would be the fear. Just go backhand top corner full speed.

So easy. It's so easy. Get out of here. It is. Say that again. Backhand top cheese full speed is going to work at least 57 times. I literally had a blog called backhand shelf because franz nielsen was so good at executing redeem verbata every time

backhand top corner okay tomorrow we're gonna do uh a live shootout demonstration a poll on how many people absolutely despise kuznetsov's uh approach in a shootout, it's got to be like 60-40. It can't be much more than that. Do you think it's a big number? To your point, Kipper, you have to be absolutely gross at hockey to be able to slow down. Yeah, he's so sick.

Do you know how fast your hands have to be to beat a goalie going that slow? A goalie is looking at the puck while you're not moving. Like, yeah, it's... And really, your only place to go is low blocker. As slow as he is, there's never a moment where you go, he's standing still or he's not moving

or he's not advancing. He gets there slow. So embarrassing for the goalie, too, because you have to try the whole time in case he does shoot it so you're just in super effort mode while he's being super swag dad out there with his kid hey i yeah i think it should be a diving poke check the next time some goalie sees it just take his legs i guess oh he's gonna beat you when you go for the poke he's got no momentum to skate around you and even if you charge him. Sure. Go play defense.

This is the part that I often ask myself. If the goalie just went out there and just ran him. Ran him. You can come out of your crease after they cross the blue. What's the next move? You're going to give him a penalty? Like what happens? What does the league do?

What's interesting is because he does push the puck in front of him. If after the puck entered the zone, Marc-Andre Fleury, whoever, just coming out full sprint at it, just beat you to it, it'd be great. Love that. Even if you cuffed him in the head, what are you going to do? Well, do you remember, I forget what goal he was in the American Hockey League, he hit a 2-on-0 against him, and he turned around,

just pushed the net off him. I forget who that was, but it's an amazing move. It was an all-time move. Might have been KHL, actually. Was it AHL? That's the equivalent of playing ball hockey and then someone's mom calling them in for dinner and taking the net. Maybe the worst moment as a kid

I've ever had. Nothing worse. You're in this great game. Doug, we need the net. He's like, my mom will kill me if I don't bring it home. It's the only ball. Mom called him in for dinner. Come home and the streetlights turn on, Sammy.

Nothing like that happens tonight. No moms calling in NHL games. No comment. Nets. Alright. Just like that. It's over. Luke Fox, Jody Shelley, Eric Francis. How much time do we have?

Much. 20. Anything you want to add? I really enjoyed the show today. You didn't score tonight. Leafs score half a dozen goals tonight. 5-1. Leafs.

6-2. 5-4 OT Leafs. Oh, my God. Stop it, Sammy. Enjoy the game, everybody. We're back tomorrow. Real Kipper and Bourne.