Real Kyper & Bourne - Netmind-Boggler

Episode Date: March 14, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee kick it off with the Leafs' loss last night against the Sabres, their inability to close against lesser competition, Morgan Rielly's struggles and Keefe's lineup tinkering. They also discuss Matt Murray's stretch of allowing four goals in each of the last five games, and if Joseph Woll should enter the mix. The Daily Faceoff's Mike McKenna weighs in on Murray's recent poor performances, what he'd need to do down the stretch to start in the playoffs and gives an early evaluation of Jonathan Quick in Las Vegas (41:33). Later, Hall of Famer Adam Oates shares his thoughts on coaching Trevor Zegras, the pressure on Auston Matthews and the evolution of hockey to be less averse to risks (1:05:48). To close, Kyper, Bourne and Sam go through the playoff picture, teams on the edge, teams falling out down the stretch and the most enticing matchups if the season ended today.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Derek Brandeo, David Sissboomba, Sammy McKee. All right, that's about as much energy as I got today. You sound a little raspy today. You know what happened? What did you tell me? I went to the game last night. All right, that's about as much energy as I got today. You sound a little raspy today. You know what happened? What will you tell me? I went to the game last night, and I had to sing the anthem because the mic went out, and my voice has not been the same since.

That's right, that's right. What a hell of a job I did. You did. You nailed it. It sounded like the whole building singing. Yes. You're singing the verse from the Cher Club? What's that?

You're singing the first verse from the Cher Club? Yeah, that might add something to do with my voice as well. Love it. Thanks to my buddy, Sunil. Okay. Oh, yeah? Good times, huh? No, no.

Not a good time because... The boys lost. Yeah, the boys lost. not a good time because... The boys lost. Yeah, the boys lost. We're in mourning today. And doesn't seem like everybody was very cheerful after a 2-0 lead. Yeah, blown. Blown. So we'll get into that so much more.

We've got Mike McKenna will be by in about 45 minutes. Hall of Famer Adam Oates, I loved having him on last time yeah really interesting guy really really good conversation always had with adam oats so let's go back last night just seems like at least the leafs had it figured out against the buffalo sabers they went in 2-0 against them this season. And they weren't going to be one of those teams that you underperformed or underachieved. But that's exactly what happened last night. Our boy Sammy called a 4-3 Sabres win last night. He just called overtime.

But boy, pretty prescient stuff there. Sammy. Yes? You knew what was coming. Yeah. Listen, I said word for word last night, like, right before the end of our show that it had been over a week since they played down to an opponent

and, you know, they were due and it happened. Can I tell you that he just says it like it's just part of doing business. It is. Part of cheering for this Leafs team. Kipper, you'd be lying to yourself if you thought it wasn't part of doing business with this team. It is. You know how the part of business works for them in April, too, right?

Yeah, I do. I'm familiar. Is there a correlation here? Can you kind of connect the dots here, Sammy? Or, no, we're not doing that. Correlation does not equal causation, sir. I don't know. Listen, I don't think they, I don't think it's the same.

I think they have a multitude of issues, this core. I mean, and we have two hours. I don't think we want to get into the issues and flaws that have been with this team for the last eight years. But I don't think playing down to opponents and losing in the first round to, well, maybe I guess the Montreal one would be a good conversation. But outside of that, maybe Columbus, maybe. But outside of that, I don't think there's a lot of correlation

between them playing bad against crappy teams and losing to the Tampa Bay Lightning last year. One thing I would love to do would be go back to their recent games where they've lost to bad teams i think they come out pretty good against almost all of them and they if they score an easy goal if they get a lead it doesn't seem to me like they just go in and get run over they go out and they get up and they go oh it's going to be one of those nights these guys suck we're up a goal or we're up two goals in this case like that and that's when they turn it off isn't that like oh it's really bad no killer instinct yeah we're back to that now they can't just close it just feels to

me like and i've said this for years about this leafs team, they want to win with the least amount of extra effort necessary. So if they can play at 70% and get the win, you're getting 70%. You're never getting 75 just in case. And I feel like when they got up last night, they just thought, hey, if we even play it half as good as we can play, we're still going to come out of this with a point or two. And yeah, they turned it off. They left it up to Matt Murray to hold them in there and save the day and uh that did not happen boy four straight

game five straight games where matt murray has surrendered four or more goals five in a row first time in his career yeah okay is that where we're going to start then i don't i don't know if i want to start start on the over yeah i if I want to start there. Start on the over. Yeah, I don't want to start there either. Because I don't think, listen, you can talk about Matt Murray's play, and we will, but I don't think last night is the reason they lost is Matt Murray. No, they got outshot 70-3 in the second period. All right, let's go to the overall view from Sheldon Keefe, and then we'll break it down a little bit more.

I thought we had a real struggle kind of getting out of our end and through the neutral zone here tonight, and times forced it, especially through that second period. Got away on us there, and then you're – through most of the second period, I thought we played on like we're trying to break out and trying to get out of our end tired, consistently tired, tired, tired, tired. And that's what happens in the second period a lot of times.

And normally it goes the other way, where that's where we take over games and that's where we dominate teams. We got two goals early in the period. Obviously puts us in a good spot. And I didn't think we took care of it very well from there and then just allowed it to snowball. I mean, that's one of the top teams in the NHL in terms of time spent in the offensive zone.

So when you don't exit your zone cleanly, get to the neutral zone, they get rolling, they get momentum, and now you're tired and you can't play your game. And I thought that's a lot of what happened in the second period. Yet we're still out of that 2-1. We're in a real good spot. I thought we started well in the second period. Yet we're still out of that 2-1. We're in a real good spot. I thought we started well in the third period. I liked our start.

You know, really gets a breakaway there, 2-1. And obviously that's a big moment in the game. You know, we don't score on that. And, you know, they score not long after. So, you know, I thought we played better in the third. Our second period was our worst period by far, maybe of the season, to be honest. That's a lot of talking.

He said a lot of words. I will address one of the things he said about Buffalo being one of the top offensive teams in terms of time spent in the opposing zone. I just pulled it up while he was talking. They're second, second best in the nhl at ozone possession time um first and rush chances and second and four check chances so offensively they do a lot of good things right there third in the nhl and goals for good offensive team so

basically not the time to think you have the game one when you're up to nothing with a lot of hockey left i i think before you know it's pretty obvious for a leaf show and it's a it's a trend that they show but i think the buffalo sabers are due some respect here for the way they turned it on after they went down to zip like they did take advantage of a team that went to sleep a little bit but to me you could see that there's one team that's in a playoff race that's desperate for their playoff lives and there's one team that's kind of cruising to the finish line and it was obvious from the the time they went down to nothing to the end of the game which was which right yep you know if we're going through issues to you know we're it's a generalization

to say motivation or to say you know whatever it may be for this group last night in terms of, like, psychoanalyzing them. But, like, some pretty dumb mistakes. Like, how many times is Lilligren standing beside a guy who shot the puck in the net? I don't know if Gustafson can play well enough to play his way into the lineup. I don't know if, you know, Shen can play his way in.

But I know guys can play their way out. Right? Like, you're heading into playoffs and you need to defend well it's possible to play your way out i i disagree with you okay sheldon doesn't play guys out of the lineup i think there's ample opportunity for him to turn around and and bench people or sit them down other than maybe how many times have we seen that all year we just experienced it a little bit with bunting getting shuffled down but maybe it's time to send bigger messages to to this lineup that we just had that chat before the show about riley you know and i was like it's too late to do anything drastic is it too late i don't know i i maybe it's happening already i i look on a game

like last night how many minutes do you think he played i actually looked 18 and a half that's not number one defense status no 70 status yeah everyone played around that though right like you know everybody is making seven and a5 million. Correct. He's supposed to be your number one defenseman. Correct. How many minutes did Owen Power play last night? I actually don't know, but 24? Almost 27. He was plus two in that game last night.

He was unbelievable. Unbelievable. And Darlene had his lunch eaten by the Leafs. He was, I mean, not a great night for Darlene. No. And I think his numbers reflected it as well because I think he was down. Oh, put your phone on silent there, Kippy. Yeah, thanks, pal.

That was in the jar. That was my reminder. Nice work. I think he played, I think, six minutes less than Owen Power. What a world, eh? Like, Darlene, he's getting Norris Trophy buzz. And not that one game takes it away, but like when you play six minutes less than someone else on your team

in a game your team comes back and wins, you're not the most important guy on your decor. Well, they... Full stop. They chose, like, I was really watching it closely because of my prediction about dalene and matthew's getting into it yeah and it wasn't dalene who was matched up with matthew's power and uh god yokiharu is that right thank you he played 27 last night so it was them that were

matched up against the leafs top guys he was about about 24 25 minutes i I think. Yogi Haru? Yeah. He was 27. Oh, was he 27? Yes. Oh, God. They were all in like a playoff game last night. Darlene played 21-18, and three minutes and 30 of that were on the power play. And I got to say. Oh. God, that looks good.

We almost buried the Sabres yesterday. They're not out of it. They're not out of it. They're five points back of the Islanders now, and they got two games in hand. I know it's hard. That's a monster win for them. That's a monster win.

To come in here and be down two zip and fight back, four unanswered, shut it down. Regulation win. But I'm glad you brought up power, because he made that play on the first goal where he picked up the puck in his own zone. I swear it was two strides through the neutral zone, walks into the offensive zone, spin around, no look pass,

right on a 22 stick who ends up scoring. I think he's going to be my favorite player, my favorite defense. He's going to win the Norris in a few years. I agree. Yeah. He is. I watched him last night. He can do it all.

And he's going to fill out someday. And correct me if I'm wrong, did he just turn 20? Yeah. What? No way. He did. Yeah, he did. Just turned 20.

Oh, my God. 6'6", 218, 20 years old. I got those seats about eight rows behind the net. Oh, yeah, yeah. You were sitting pretty last night. All I did was watch him. He never came off the ice, as we just alluded to. But the way the guy goes back and looks over his shoulder about a thousand times.

By the time he picks up a puck off the boards in his own zone, he knows where everybody is. Yeah. It's like head on a swivel, like constant with this guy. Yeah, really. It was so much fun to watch him and watch him processing. Yeah. And then doing the math and then picking up the best out of the pass. Just memorizing what the scene looks like behind him as he goes back for the touch. And you watched the Leaf defense last night.

It was like they were all wearing neck braces. That's not good. Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah. Like, the Sabres are going to be a monster problem very soon. Yeah. Like, I don't want to go too far on the Sabres.

But, like, in the next two or three years, are going to be there's good with the leafs legit and then you had anderson who like turns back looked like an nhl goalie last night turn back yeah so goaltenders over the age of 40 that uh sorry goaltenders over the age of 40 have won four straight decisions versus the maple leafs that's three for craig anderson and one for david ayers oh my god oh this team man just torture me more please i dare you matt marie oh no we're not doing that yet do you want to do it i don't know i want to talk more about the d i want to talk more about lilligren um so you disagree that you can play your way down i just? I just think the way he, you just listen to his comments now, Sheldon's, of course, on all our kippers, clippers. And it's, he can't find anything negative to say about this team right now. And I think he's just worried that either they're fragile or that he tried it once already and it didn't work for him but i just i don't see him

i don't see him sitting anyone's ass down i don't see him doing it now as a like punishment go figure it out or you're not going to get back in but i see him sitting there on the whiteboard with you know six d-men to pick and lilligran's not playing great and him going to looks like playoffs last year we want to get shen in to begin the series and if shen plays well and they're winning i don't know can i ask you guys a question about the decor please if you were watching the toronto maple leafs and you had no idea about any contract situations or any, you know, in a vacuum. Yes.

On merit, if you were looking to take somebody out for a couple games, who would it be? I mean, it's probably Lilligren for me last night. Are you trying to get me to say Morgan Riley? No, I'm not trying to get you to say anything. I'm just wondering what your question is. Morgan would be in the conversation for sure. He is just struggling.

Can you just, is there another word besides struggling? No. Can I give you expected goals from last night? Do you care? Yeah. Useful or useless? Useful. Of all the expected goals that were happening

while Morgan Riley was on the ice last night, 90% were against the Leafs and 10% were for the Leafs when Riley was on the ice last night. A five on fives and 10 were for the leafs when riley was on the ice last night at five on five that doesn't sound good no i don't know you don't want those numbers so you're not solely to blame for them right you don't know how things unfold but that's a big swing not creating right well one way he is so you know you know, I'll be honest. This has become a hot button issue. In my DMs, I get people saying, is today the day you guys say Morgan Riley should be sat?

Is today the day they take Morgan Riley off the power play? Like I, people, there is a, Leafs Nation needs to have someone, and it's never been Morgan. It's frothing up a little bit. Not a little bit. He's the number Morgan. It's frothing up a little bit. Not a little bit. He's the number one. The number one.

He is now. He's the frothiest. He's now taken over the Jake Gardner Memorial whipping boy status. It is the name of the trophy, by the way. I didn't see that coming. Neither did I. Neither did I. But I guess as soon as you sign that long-term deal, and which, like, on the open market...

At the end of the day, it looked still pretty good. It did. And still. But is it? I don't know. Here's my question, though, wiping the smile off my face. How much of a problem is that for them? Going into this series against Tampa Bay...

I don't think they can win. With Riley playing poorly. Yes. That sounds like a pretty big problem. Yeah, I mean, he's going to be asked to play the most minutes and he's going to be asked, likely, if he's playing with TJ Brody, they're going

to be used defensively, which is maybe why they won't play him with Brody. I just, again, when you we'll see where everybody is health-wise, but when you're up against a Hedman or last night an Owen Power, and you don't have one of those on the other side, it makes it really difficult. Yeah.

It does. Yeah, it does. And, you know, I think back to playoffs in the past, and Riley's been awesome for the Leafs. He's been really good in the playoffs, just to my eye. He scored a couple of big goals last year for them in the postseason, a couple of really big goals, actually. So, you know, the hope is that he's one of those guys that raises his level

and finds another gear, but you don't want to be going into the playoffs with too many guys where you go, well, hopefully they flip the switch. One of those guys, by by the way has flipped it the last couple games i thought matthews was awesome last night agree so just going back to um the last couple years for morgan riley in the playoffs and and all the just looking at the games played is so heartbreaking seven seven five seven seven it's like oh my god i know and the five was also a yes i know so you know he's six points in seven games last year for them.

You know, three points in seven games the year before, one point in five games. You know, five points, five points, five points. Like, he has been offensive for them in terms of, but, like, I think the Leafs have enough around them now where they don't, that's not really what they need. They just need him to make good plays. It's just more about the decision-making, Kipper, and you've been on this it's just yeah he doesn't it maybe it's a lack of

confidence he knows what's going on with him he knows the conversation surrounding him but it just seems his roots the roots is that right in the time for me yeah again i watched him last night i think it was uh quinn's goal yeah that he batted it out of the air yeah it was yep just between him and uh was it uh lilligren yeah come on too just too easy to get to the net yeah and it's because your your route is is wrong defending for me that yeah so i agree with riley on the routes like it's very circuitous not a lot of stops and starts just kind of uh and for me, Lilligran is often

in the right place, but standing beside someone who shoots it in the net. He doesn't tie up a stick or get a guy. You know what I mean? Like, he's in the right places a lot. We should listen to...

Keith actually talked about letting the Sabres get to the front of the net. Why don't we have Keith on talking about that? I mean, on the four goals, yes. I don't know that we gave up a whole lot. What else are we talking about? I mean, I think the whole first 30 minutes of the hockey game, I don't know that we gave up a whole lot.

What else are we talking about? I mean, I think the whole first 30 minutes of the hockey game, I don't know if they had a shot from the slot. I think they might have one pass out late in the first period there off of a breakout turnover. So we were playing fine defensively. To me, the greater concern was just our inability to come out of our end clean and get to the neutral zone.

And at times when we did, the next play wasn't good enough or wasn't smart enough i mean they're up tight they're pressing and we're up to you know you got to manage that uh manage that better we have done that well lately as a team um you know the way we handled being up in the third in calgary being up in in uh in new jersey you know, being up the Oilers. Like, we've managed these things well here of late. Didn't do it today. So other than the four times they scored, they did a great job in front of the net. I'm also looking at the heat map from last night.

The Sabres have plenty of opportunities. Oh, you mean the four goals? Yeah. It's funny, too too because it's not like it's not like other than the two goals or other than the goal other than the half a dozen times yeah so i get they've done it well and i said to you guys before the show was like i wish it could be ah they had a bad night didn't go their way but it's like we're really close to a pivotal series in maple

leaf history if i may be dramatic no you're not it could result in the turnover of gm coach star players like it's been an unbelievable run of years it all hinges on what starts in four or five weeks so for for we don't get the luxury of going ah ah, well, it was just a few goals. Murders. Oh, yeah. The stakes are high. Stakes are really high. Honestly, Borny, I hadn't really thought of it like that until you just laid it out like that. But it's true. There is a lot on the line here.

And there is way too much tinkering going on for my liking. And way too much praising of a goalie who's been objectively bad yeah like it's just i don't like i know that they've won some games against good teams and they i know they're only lose to bad almost i just there's some as if like they're trying to talk themselves into it 100 there yeah i hear that too you know um yeah and you've got 16 games left they're not many no that's and that's probably why you're trying to talk yourself into thinking that you're you're better than you are well and maybe it's not even thinking so much as the only way to get the most out of players or they believe it is is to just fuel them with confidence hugs hugs hugs not drugs you know whatever whatever it takes we do have a quote from keith on balancing winning and preparing for the playoffs sammy talked about

too much tinkering is that a natural place to go next yes All right, let's do that. Minus the hugs. Well, there's some hugs. That are with an eye towards one win every game. That's our approach. We're trying to put our players in the best spot possible to win every game while also having an eye towards what's coming, whether that's trying different things that you may want to look at at certain times. Sometimes maybe you have to, you know. Right around this time last year, you know, our line of Bunting, Matthews, and Marner was tearing apart the league.

And Matthews was rolling through. And then right before the playoffs started, Michael Bunting gets injured. And all of a sudden, we need to find a new left winger to play there. So different things happen that you want to get ahead of. That's just one example of things that can change. So, you know, we are certainly, you know, trying some things that are with an eye towards either scenarios that might happen or like we talked about yesterday. I mean, with the seven defensemen

and getting gustafson involved i just think it's important you know here with o'reilly's injury that you have these guys in the lineup in a uniform and with your group because you just you never know if or when you're going to need them i get what he's trying to say but to me it's he's just going way over the top on scenarios that may happen, but scenarios that may not happen too. Exactly. You're preparing for the worst, and the worst may not happen. And it's like, what do you value?

On a top five team. What do you value more? Chemistry and having set lines and having guys rolling into the playoffs. To me, you should try to have your ideal lineup ready and if something does happen you deal with it then as opposed to preparing for the opposite way you know i i can see you know the holes in that argument about preparing making sure you're prepared for everything but it is an interesting point about being a punch first guy versus a react retaliatory type of guy.

Is the team setting up to take Tampa's punches and react with all these different things? Or are they saying, here's how we're optimized. Here's how we're at our best and make Tampa respond to what we're going to bring. Right now, it does feel like a lot of preparing for a coming hurricane, if you will, rather than bringing the hurricane. Initi the initiate don't retaliate right

and right now it feels like they're planning to be you know the punch back team rather than the build for the best version of themselves all right let's uh i don't like do we have keep on motivation yeah so steve simmons asked him about keeping your guys motivated. It's the same question. It's about, you know, they're settled in this spot and how you keep them going. And it was a good question if you want to hear the answer. I do. Let's do it.

I mean, it's challenging in that sense, Steve. Just, you know, you don't have that. But there's enough to play for here, right? I mean, it's still tight enough that if you let your foot off the gas, not only are you now losing home ice, but you've got other teams. I mean, there's Buffalo being one, teams that are, you know, teams in our division that are really battling to try to stay alive in the playoff race.

And you don't take care of your games. All of a sudden, you know, those guys are within reach. So there's enough there, not to mention the fact that we're trying to get our game together. But, yeah, I mean, I think it's, you know, it's the kind of game sometimes maybe, you know, we go through Saturday night, it's Oilers, it's, you know, all of it comes with that. You know, you're here, it's a Monday night, this is a divisional team.

Maybe it's not the same level of urgency in that sense. And maybe you don't have your best, so you've got to play with intelligence. You've got to play a very smart, managed game. We're up 2-0 with 10 minutes left in the second period on home ice. You've got to win that game every time. Yeah, that's great. That's great. His best clip right there.

Yeah. And end of story no explanations no nothing you got to win the game you got to shut the door that's what good teams do you're not young anymore this isn't learning lessons anymore you either should be able to do it or you can't it's not saturday night versus the oilers so maybe you don't have that same sort of just drive from external circumstances you need to find an inside to just play smart. But that's the argument for the playoffs that they will be, you know, that they will be fine going into the playoffs again. That you're like, well, it matters.

And you hope that you turn it on and it matters. And you look like you're motivated like they have against good teams. Like, I mean, they look good against the Oilers, looking good against New Jersey. They've played well, and they got a good one coming in on Wednesday. They're going to have to look really good against Colorado. Like, that's how you convince yourself that they're going to be all right. For sure. But, I mean.

And it's not getting any easier. No. Colorado tomorrow night. Desperate. Carolina on Friday with no Sveshnikov. Yeah, cough yeah big blow we think he's done for the season we'll get into that a little later on and then right back at you with ottawa like you want desperate teams you got them yeah no that's absolutely true you're gonna get the best of a lot of teams and i think that's good for sharpening your game for the playoffs right you don't want to walk over a bunch of uh teams tanking to the bottom so yeah maybe it puts

him in a good position to win should we do the goalie part now well you have to because we are it is set up for a back-to-back so clearly matt more matt murray's getting a lot more work this week yes so the that's friday and saturday night with carolina ottawa he'll get one of those two So clearly, Matt Murray's getting a lot more work this week. Yes. So that's Friday and Saturday night with Carolina-Ottawa. He'll get one of those two games. I wonder if at Ottawa makes sense. They like to give guys a run in their old teams. So we believe Samsonov's going to play tomorrow night against Colorado,

and then you go Samsonov again in Carolina? Or no, the games here in Toronto. here toronto yeah yeah you're you know how does it shape up yeah probably you want samsonov tomorrow and then you'd like to give more than a day in between if you can you might as well go murray against carolina and samsonov versus ottawa even if it isn't cute little narrative we're sure that samsonov's starting tomorrow night not sure no but boy don't need to feel uneasy about his health if he's not ready yeah i don't believe it i don't believe what that he's not healthy no you think he's fine i think he's fine it's just like a little throwaway thing at the end of a sentence that he said because he knows that

it's kind of weird that they gave maria a start after he was horrible on saturday night that's my thought but i don't know if kipper knows anything about sansan off but it just i don't know just feels like that's a convenient thing to say at that point i don't know you guys want to hear some marie stats let's have them yeah first 11 starts seven wins wins, 7-2-2, with a.246 goals against average and a.924 save percentage, which is a very nice start to a season. Yes. His last 11 starts, he's 5-5-0 with a.342 and an.877.

I saw a stat. I'm not sure how accurate it is. Okay. I'll credit Mike Haslam. Okay. Murray since January 1st. A save percentage of? 860?

31. Oh, my. Of what? 831. Since January 1st. All right. Goals against 831. 831. Since January 1st. All right. Goals against average of 3.50.

Mm-hmm. Well, the numbers may look bad, but he's looked great to my eye. Let's listen to the coach talk about Matt Murray. He's been great. The numbers look terrible. Again, here tonight, I thought he was really good. I mean, there's four tap-ins. I mean, they're three feet or less in front of the crease. Pass out on the winning goal from below the goal line,

that's about as dangerous a chance as you can give up in the NHL. We cannot allow that to happen. That's very poor penalty killing by us. You know, we were late around our net on a couple, but I thought he made some good saves. He was really solid in the first half of the second period. You know, when we were really a little bit, he was really solid. Huge breakaway save in the third period.

So, again, I've said this about Samsonov too, you know, previously at times sometimes the numbers don't look great because we don't give up a lot of shots. The quality chances today were just, you can't give those, we can't give those type of looks up. Is that the same team with the quality of chances that only gave up for all game or something? They actually defended great.

That's a great question by you, Justin. Thank you. Yeah. First thing that comes to mind is, and I don't know exactly this time last year when they were mentioned, but drastically different than head coach of the Ottawa Senator, DJ. Yeah.

When he spoke of how frustrating Matt Murray was to him. Last year. And the Ottawa Senators. Yeah. And I think it's a psychological thing now with Sheldon and how he wants to handle Matt Murray here. For sure, that's it. That just, I can't go,

we can't let him get down that rabbit hole of last season where he was basically kicked to the curb by the Ottawa Senators. He's waved through the league, right? So it doesn't really matter. He's, he, Matt could have let in 11, right? Sheldon's not coming out and ripping a strip no or it's the opposite of that it's he's great we stink yeah you know it feels like the time kind of an insult to our intelligence though when you're just coming out here and just saying stuff that's just

objectively wrong yeah like he has not been great no and he my my biggest quibble with that whole great thing is that we do not he stopped a break away here whatever like you're supposed to make some tough saves you're an nhl goal he's doing the nhl you make five million dollars a year to be a starter which means you're one of the 32 best players on earth in the position and you're expected to make some tough saves let alone the ones you're supposed to make i mean you get good chances in the nhl today you have to make some tough ones so to point to a few and say it's been fine whatever he's on his stomach for the one that goes up under the bar like i'm not going to say he was terrible last night, but I am going to say that whatever they're doing

is clearly for Matt Murray's psychological state and not reality. Okay. The other angle is wall. Oh, come on. I'm just saying, with 16 games to go, you got to cover your ass, because all of this is going to come down like an avalanche.

I already said hurricane. You're saying avalanche. God, you guys are on fire. If you don't cover yourself in some capacity, like Sheldon's got to look like, you know, you want to create scenarios in your head, then if that's what you're going to do, then you have to go all the way and find a game to get Wall in,

who I think technically is a way better goalie than Matt Murray all day long. Yeah. Well, there's a reason I was sitting here banging the drum for a goalie at the deadline how could you be worse those numbers that you wrote off the numbers that i wrote off like that is not nhl caliber goaltending well i think this is one of the places you guys you know we talked about are you preparing for the worst or preparing to be at your best you know maybe they

think a good matt murray is them at their best and that's kind of what they want to see they want to see him get to be the guy they've seen him to be he's 28 years old 29 years old like i mean there's also the perspective and we talked about this last night at least talk that maybe they're giving them this stretch to just prove to them be like hey man like we gave you your opportunity numbers weren't good enough and we're gonna go with the other guy yeah then you can be a little bit more forthright on your your comments then instead of completely putting a warm blanket around him yeah no you're right that's all and you don't have to be pro about it you don't have to bury him but we need better from everybody including matt murray that's all it takes that's not good enough

last night from first to last man on this roster it wasn't good enough last night we will be an easy out in the first round if we don't get this in order give them a sense of urgency we all feel it i would like to see them flip some switch where it's like we've been building here we're building we're building all a confidence chance opportunity take a step it's over right it's over you're here you've arrived at the time you're supposed to be there and the people who aren't there don't get to play so if that's matt murray and he's not playing well well enough then fine doesn't play and if that's timothy lilligren fine doesn't play like there is there to me the time for building confidence and working towards and all

that it's done we've been talking about that for 40 years of learning lessons and building yeah and it's like you can't still be saying that no and that's i think people do that a lot in hockey for job preservation purposes it's like uh oh as soon as you become gm of a team it's announce a rebuild guarantees you five years to see how things go yada yada no one wants to say it's now or never you know until you're five or seven years in or whatever this whole thing has been dubious and the whole march but it the building time's over for the leafs there's no more progress there's no more time for growth it's it's times now couldn't agree more did uh does sheldon get asked about wayne simmons availability or is there going to be a chance for him to play

and i think he kind of shut it down did he not he was asked about it i think two days ago yeah in the morning and he just said it's not high on the priority list okay oh also there was a clip from the last night that I wanted to bring up that it was hard to win the cut. There wasn't much to it. But a reporter asked him a question about defensive responsibilities

for Willie Nylander and Mitch Marner with 11 and 7 if it changes or whatever. And Sean and Keith looked at the reporter and said, you're overthinking it. And I was like, that's pretty rich. Really? Yeah. He said, you're overthinking it. And was like that's pretty rich really yeah you're overthinking it and he said it kind of in a hushed tone like he's overthinking it it's not me it's him yeah is it me no it's you but yeah he said that the sheldon he said that uh getting simmons

back involved wasn't really high on the priority list yeah but that's one of the things that's hard to do and tough i I'm sure, to steal. But whoever asked that question, the only reason I brought it up is like if someone's going to ask about Wayne Simmons, someone asked him about Wall this week. I'll put it to our intrepid reporter. Just, hey, we're going to see Wall playing any games. That's going to get you off the fire breath for sure.

Well, Luke Fogg. The way he's talking about hey no i'm not high on my priority list well move it up move it up buddy rearrange the list get it it was get it going it was luke who asked about wayne simmons yeah so i'll uh i'll put in a request see if our boy will ask for us oh he'll ask he will ask you're right hey maybe he's listening right now luke are you you listening? Ask about Joel Wall. Bobby McMahon is healthy and ready. You've got a nice color schedule here. If you were to pick one game for Wall to get in, which one?

I got it at 2023-24, November 14th. It's too late. I. It's too late. I think it's too late. I kind of do, too. It'll be the only goalie signed by then. Very well could be. I just think it's too late, no? I don't think so.

And I'm, you know, 16 games is 16 games. How about Sunday, March 26th in Nashville? On the second half of a back-to-back. Okay, so then what? So he goes in there and he's awesome. Gives up one goal. Good. You're trying to win hockey games.

I'm sorry, but if Samsonov doesn't look great by the end of the week, I think Wals wall starts coming a lot sooner oh like you think there might be a an injury concern or something and then he gets called up or whatever i just think that you've got to send a message here we got three goalies in the organization right now that we're confident in and uh this guy's gonna push you guys a little bit here down the stretch i'm'm not letting you get comfortable. Is this the fairy tale that Leafs fans tell years from now? The brick wall came up and finally made himself known.

The next Bennington. I'd be very fine. I don't care who's in that. You know what I want to hear from wool? Cause I haven't heard him speak before as I want him to be like Bennington and be like incomprehensibly arrogant that would make me feel way better oh like he's just like a total

I'm the best I should be in that what took you so long that's exactly what I want to hear frankly it's ridiculous have you seen my numbers look at that guy over there no one to point at Murray and be like look at him how am I not being here he looks like he's in Peaky Blinders look at Arthur guy over there. No one to point at Murray and be like, look at him. How am I not being here?

He looks like he's in Peaky Blinders. Look at him. Look at Arthur Shelby over there. He's seen enough. Okay, we're going to take a quick break. We got Mike McKenna after the break. Daily face-off hockey analyst. Always does a great job breaking down the goalies. We'll get his thoughts on Matt Murray, Samsonov,

and what's Wall's first name? Joseph? Close. No, you're right. It is just joseph wall there it is maybe we'll get to know his name a lot better that's right in a week we'll ask mike mckenna after the break you're watching and listening to real kipper inborn breaking down the top stories in the nhl every day the jazz marriage show subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Nothing, Sammy. We good to go? Oh, nice. Nice. All right. That's the best I can do for Matt. Mike McKenna.

Mike. Mike, are you there? Oh, yeah, I'm here. I was just waiting for the big intro you usually give me. This is quick. We must be getting right to the meat and the potatoes here. There's no time for your 18 league

resume. It takes too long. I get it. Yeah, let's talk hockey, dude. Let's do it, man. Hey, fourth best team in the league, and JB and my boy Sammy are just ripping on the goalie right now.

I feel some guilt. Come on. You got to bring some love to Leaf Nation. Tell them it's not as bad as it seems, and this is just a little blip in Matt Murray's season. Go. Well, I mean, you know, I don't disagree with what Sheldon Keefe said about where the goals came from last night on Murray. They were all really close to him.

I didn't think that the goals were particularly bad in any way. What I do have concern about is the structure that he plays with and how robotic he is and how rebounds just bounce off of him. And it's upper body, it's lower body. They tend to sit there. And I'm not sure how sustainable that's going to be when you start to play against better competition. It's going to get to the net as often as other teams will when they're better teams. And right now you can

call Buffalo a better team. Alex talks back in the lineup. It changes everything for that team. There are two, five and one without him. So, I mean, I've never had a ton of confidence, unfortunately, in Murray, especially knowing that it's been several years since he's been at his best and with the injuries involved, I wasn't sure how he'd be able to elevate his game this season. And so am I concerned there? I mean, yeah, with Murray, I think Samsonov has been fine though. He's not the most crisp goaltender. He's not the most technically proficient, but he's had a pretty good year so far. So, I mean,

if you're thinking about who's going to ride into the Stanley cup playoffs, I just hope that the Leafs don't fall victim of thinking that hey we've got a guy who's won two stanley cups we have to put him in the net i hope they're playing whoever is best when it comes time for game one of the stanley cup playoffs how much do you think that matt murray struggles can be rust can be coming back from injury like he hasn't had any consistent run of play in a while i just thought watching him versus the oilers there's the fourth goal i don't know if you saw the dry side old one-timer that he doesn't quite get across the net on there's the cane wrap around like it's stuff to me that like mike like you make those saves right if you're out there i so i just i can't know if it's rust or what it is but it just i'm looking for a way to say that like he can find that again

but boy it's pretty concerning. Well, it hasn't been there for several years and that's really been my knock. You can go back to even our conversations a year ago when this, or less than a year ago when the signing took place was you need to see Matt Murray play a little bit of street hockey out there. And that doesn't mean to completely abandon technique. He has really good technique. I mean, I think he's done a pretty good job of narrowing up the stance and doing some other things this year to try to

address that. But you're right about the fact that he's not dynamic, you know, and the cane wrap, I think the cane wrap, you can really look at that as a play where a guy's driving the net and you have to seal the ice and he hasn't played in a while. And like you said, you can't just walk back in a lineup after a good week of practice and be a phenomenal NHL goaltender. I don't think like, I think it does take several games to make that happen. So I do think there's a little grace period where you need to allow with Murray.

I think you still have one or two more games and practice weeks here where he should be getting back to where you'd like to see him. But if he doesn't free up those hands and doesn't start collecting pucks on his chest and shoulders and putting them either in good areas or getting whistles out of those, yeah, man, I do have concerns because that's the same Murray that we've seen over the last couple of years. What is the 16 games to go? So how do you kind of see this thing playing out? You're saying, I hope they go with the hotter goalie

or the better goalie. And that's based on the body of work for Murray in the last week of the season, the last two weeks. How much do you need to see for him to take over a game one scenario? Because Samsonov's been so much better over the course of the, the 82 game season. Well, that's what you're alluding to is where I'm at as well.

Unless Murray just knocks the doors down in the next couple of weeks here, it all goes towards Samson off to me. You know, I mean, you would have to see Murray go on a run where he's putting up about a nine 40 over the next seven, eight games that he plays to really think that this is the guy that needs to be in the net. But I've seen this before, man. Like think about Minnesota last year when they traded for Mark Andre Fleury. I don't know if Cam Talbot lost more than one game in his last like 18 starts for Minnesota last year. It was stupid. And he got stuck on the bench. And that's not to say that Fleury had come in and played poorly or anything. It's just that he was Marc-Andre Fleury. And people and goalies that

have a precedence, that have a reputation, they get a lot of leeway. Like I see that in Vegas right now too. He's Jonathan Quick. What happens if you get Logan Thompson back or Laurent Pessoa or Aiden Hill before playoffs? You know, there's going to be a strong push in the front office guys to go with the goaltender. That's won a couple of Stanley cups, but the play has to be there to support it. That's what I'm arguing for. And I'm not sure if Murray can pull that off in this short amount of time,

given the injuries he's faced this year. So you mentioned Samson off and that his season has gone well. You know, you said maybe not the most technically sound or maybe not the perfect goaltender. He's gone. Oh, we lost him? He booped. Oh, I didn't hear the boop.

I didn't have the headset on. Uh-oh, Kipper. He booped. We got a boop. I'll call him back. With no warning at all. No indication. Usually they crack up.

They fade in and out. Yeah. That's when they really give Sammy the hairy eyeball. He got a good answer in before he booped out. You know what? He made an excellent point about

reputation. That's what we're looking at right now. That's 100% the debate that's going on. Can you imagine those conversations over at the MLSC offices right now now but he's won two cups yeah the last four weeks they both play whatever eight games murray's a 905 910 and samsonov's a 920 you'll still have people saying give it to the guy who's won the Stanley Cups. Mike, you back with us?

Nope, he's not back with us. Sammy. What's a week on the real... He's doing two jobs back there now. What's a week on the real Kipper and Bourne show without a few dropped calls? But the Samson... Yeah, the American mobile system for this one. Oh, okay, we're not blaming Sammy?

No, take it easy on Sam. Okay. All right. That's how much respect I have for you. I'm going to listen to you. Thanks. We were just talking about Samsonov, or I was going to ask you about Samsonov,

and just what you see from him. I know you mentioned that he's not the most this, that, or the other thing in the league, but has he taken strides this year? Where would you put him? Is he a legit number one in the NHL? I think he's right at the cusp of that. And I think that he's shown that he could easily do it.

And he's on the big stage in Toronto. Like think about if, you know, think about a Samson, I was playing for a team that really didn't have a lot to fight for, you know, I think he'd be pretty clear cut. If you're looking at a team like, Oh, I don't know. I mean, even take where Montreal is at right now. You know, they're trying to groom Montembeau, and Allen's a terrific veteran. But Samsonov could probably come in and play there.

He could easily go to Columbus now and take that job, other places. I think this year has been a step forward for him. I think that he's earned the trust, at least, of his teammates and coaching staff, whereas that did not feel like it was the case previously with the Washington Capitals. That was always the narrative, is that we're not getting consistency. We don't know what we're going to get from Samsonov. I think it was a wake-up call for him, honestly, to have to go to another team, to kind of come up with your tail between the legs and realize, man, I

got to work. I'm not just a first rounder anymore. I'm just another body. And I think that's really mattered. You know, there's been a couple of blow up games this year. Um, but I think for the most part, I haven't seen those big swings. I'd like him to stay on his edges more and be a little bit more patient. That's the only time I think he gets in trouble. I do think there's times against some of the best teams that he starts to press. He tries too hard. I'd like to see him just keep relaxed and stay patient on his edges, and I think it would fare a little better. We're talking to Mike McKenna, Daily Faceoff hockey analyst.

Mike, 16 games to go. I brought up the name Joseph Wall to come in and maybe put some healthy pressure or competition in the likes of a Matt Murray to get his numbers back up. Is there time for that? I don't think with this many games left. And I also don't think that the pressure tactic is really going to make a difference for Murray. I think it's very internalized at this point. And I would also argue that you want Joseph Wall playing as many games as he possibly can in the American League and keeping his confidence high because

you don't know if you're going to need them. And if you've got a three-headed monster at the NHL level, and that's not even dealing with, you know, there's a bit of cap relief, obviously, with O'Reilly out, but I would much prefer to keep Wall playing at the American League, keep him rolling, because I think he's got a future with the Toronto Maple Leafs and in the NHL I just think of this year it's a foregone conclusion you've got Murray and Samson off and if that's who they're going to run with I think you need to try to get the best version of Murray you can and probably the best way is for him to continue playing games and for Wall down the American League level as well he was going to ask you about a couple other situations around the nhl now we've covered off on these three guys

you mentioned the vegas situation uh a little earlier what are your thoughts on the realistic i guess is it possible that quick is their guy and actually they they roll with him in the post season i his numbers have just been awful this year, Mike. Yeah, there's no way around it. I mean, Quick and Kyle Peterson were losing games for the Los Angeles Kings. And talking to a lot of people that I know in and around that team in L.A., they couldn't waive Jonathan Quick. You can't waive Jonathan Quick. You know, he's a franchise icon and legend and an expiring contract.

I think they went absolutely to the end of the rope with him to try to keep him there and make it work, and it just wasn't. Now, as far as him going to Vegas, I know his numbers look amazing and he's 3-0. The first two games he played were okay against Tampa Bay, and his first start at home was pretty good too. Now, his latest game against Carolina is easy to look at, 33-save shutout,

and go, wow, and he did make some big saves. He also didn't face a single out-of-man rush. He also faced a lot of shots from the outside, and that's the way Vegas plays. If you look at all five goaltenders, they've got pretty good statistics. So what matters for me is Vegas, it's the eye test on the goaltenders, and it's the advanced metrics. The advanced metrics aren't great for any of their goalies, but the eye test is what you got to look for here.

Has Quick made any changes to his game whatsoever over the last decade? I haven't seen them. And the last five years have shown that it's problematic in the NHL. He's been a below average goaltender for four out of those five years in every statistical category. That being said, boy, is that guy motivated. And boy, does he want to beat the Kings if you face him in the first round. And he's also playing behind two defensemen in Braden McNabb and Alec Martinez

that he has all kinds of familiarity with from their Kings days. So Quick went to the best place imaginable for him in the NHL because I'm really not sure how many other NHL places there were out there for him. It's a great place for him. I hate that I'm doubting a two-time Stanley Cup champion, really not sure how many other NHL places there were out there for him. It's a great place for him. I hate that I'm doubting a two-time Stanley Cup champion, but he's going to have to prove it to me, and I need to see him challenged in some of the games going down the stretch. Consecutive games for the Toronto Maple Leafs,

coming from a two-goal deficit. They saved one Saturday night. They gave one up last night. But the one Saturday night was against Stuart Skinner, who is really shaping up to be the guy for the Edmonton Oilers come game one here. Is a Saturday night where he doesn't close out a 3-1 lead something that could hurt him in terms of prepping him for game one?

Well, considering that his goalie partner in Jack Campbell has done that quite a few times and given up a lot of goals this year, I don't think it's too much of a worry. But I think that with this club, it's an interesting mix in Edmonton because look at the win-losses for both of those goalt know, you're not far off between Skinner and Campbell amazingly in terms of the win column, but you look at the scoring between the two and Skinner's numbers look pretty good. Campbell's numbers do not look good. Edmonton has to score a lot of goals to keep in the game

with Campbell. And it ends up being a track meet. Now he did have a great run in early January where he was phenomenal for a while, but he's riding that roller coaster again. I think when it comes down to Skinner, this is a guy who's got a pretty good mentality. I think he's a consistent goaltender. He's not a game-stealer in the NHL yet. He may have that in him, but he's going to be the guy there. I don't see how Campbell could be the guy for the first game, unless again, he's lights out from here on out.

And Campbell does have that ability though, guys. That's why I think you have to have two goalies in Edmonton because Campbell, you'll get them for seven or eight great games. But if you're Jay Woodcroft, you got to know when to get them out of there and go to Skinner. If that's a direction you choose to go,

Skinner would be the safe route. Campbell would be the roll of the dice. And I don't know how you play that. I cannot coach that team because I don't know which I would trust more for a short period of time over the long period. It would be Skinner. But if you needed one big game, it's, it's a tough call because Campbell has pulled those off before. It just hasn't happened with regularity. Yeah.

You know, the big concern when we talk about the Leafs and this last one for me here, Mike, we appreciate your time. Was thinking about the series they're gonna play they're definitely going to have the second best goaltender as long as andre vasilevsky is in the net for the tampa bay lightning going through his season a little bit in january the guy's a 946 save percentage you know and he's got some months this year that are like, are similar to that otherworldly. He hasn't been great for a little bit here. He's been an eight 65 in his last six games here this month. Is there any chance there's some cracks in his game?

Like Tampa's defensive game hasn't been as good. And he looks like he's struggling a little bit right now too. What's kind of been interesting with Vasilevsky is that he's had some real blow up games from the last couple of weeks, six goals against five, six. He had a seven spot earlier in February now here's what has always made him so great he'll have seven February six against Florida what does he do the next game 30 shot shut out against the avalanche yeah that catches your eye real fast okay he allows six against Buffalo that's February 23rd. What's his next game?

25th against Detroit. 45 shots shut out. But then again now, he allowed five against Pitt and goes back with six against Carolina. And that's where I kind of think that you can do that for a while, but you can't keep it up forever. And I think Vasilevsky is still the guy in the NHL that if you want to win one game, you're sticking them in the net. I doubt if you guys disagree with me, I'd like to hear a

different name. He's still the guy, but I, man, I watched Tampa Bay and I think that they've got half of their forwards skating pretty hard, but not very aware in the top half of that. And the bottom half has looked a little disjointed and slow of their forwards. And I don't think you know, is really quick just yet there. They're still trying to figure out third, fourth lineup pairings is pair. Mark is Edward out of the lineup. Belmar. I think that's primary for them. And, and I'm not sure defensively if they were able to add what they needed to on

the blue line at the trade deadline. So I think Tampa has been loose. They can obviously score. I don't think Vassie has been at an absolute top of his game, but I don't see major cracks to it. I think Tampa has just gone through this spell where I don't think they had a lot of fun the last couple weeks, guys, straight up. And I think that kind of festered for a little bit. They're going to need a big couple games here to turn things around.

They need a really good feel-good win. And it starts with Vasilevsky, but I think it goes through that entire group down there in Florida. One more for me, Mike. I always find it fascinating to listen to coaches publicly comment on struggling goalies. And last night, I don't know if you heard the comments about Sheldon Keefe, but despite the numbers of Matt Murray,

he was great last night and basically, you know, everything in front of him stunk. And I'm just wondering, does that go a long way for goalies, the praising when there's bad numbers? Is there something noble about Sheldon taking one for his goalie? Does it work? Does it help build Matt Murray's loyalty to him to be better you're a leader as a coach right kip like imagine if you got out there and you got your face beat

in five times in a row and the coach stood up there after the game and go yeah yeah kip can't fight man he shouldn't be doing that anymore i don't know why we have him out there well actually it did happen at the end of my career. I don't know. But seriously, like, think about that and how you'd feel with it. You know, even though you've shown up, you've done everything you can for your teammates, you've put the work in, and you just had a bad stretch where you ate some knuckles, you know. I think it's really important, especially with Murray coming back from injury, knowing where he factors in with his team in Toronto, that he supports them. And I don't disagree with that assessment because he's speaking about the goals that went in. Those weren't bad goals that went in last night, folks.

They weren't. They were from three feet away, like you said, chip-ins and tap-ins from close. Could he cover vertically a little better? Maybe. That's something to work on. I'm more worried about the process of his game. I do think, like I say, those rebounds are problematic. He's robotic, but Keith's doing the right thing here to back his players because he's trying to keep that culture right before playoffs. You don't want anything to go sideways, especially when you lose a game to Buffalo. Okay. That team's coming along, but there's still a rival. They're right down the road from you. You don't want to let that fester. You want to get ready for the next game. And I think to me, it was just a vote for Murray saying, Hey, you're back in here. We trust you. We're going to be for the next game. And I think to me, it was just a vote for Murray saying, hey, you're back in

here. We trust you. We're going to be a part of this. I'm going to back you no matter what. But behind closed doors, guys, it may be a different story. You never know that. It's just the reality of this. We know that for sure. Hey, Mike, always a pleasure having you on our show. Thanks for doing a great job.

Yeah, no problem. I'm happy to, guys. I'm going to go visit that T-Mobile store and give them a piece of my mind for you, okay? All right. Thanks, buddy. Appreciate it. Mike McKenna, daily face on Hockey Analyst. He does a fantastic job and always gives me something else

to kind of look at for sure. And, yeah, I mean, I did want to ask that question to him about Sheldon protecting Matt Murray. And, I mean, he did want to ask that question to him about Sheldon protecting Matt Murray. And I mean, he played that role. Like, there's no question that forwards or defense, they don't get that same kind of shield or buffer zone because there's just only one goalie that can play for you at a time.

You got to think about really those type of comments and the repercussions of of maybe the psychological disadvantage or advantage you can get from coaches comments it's just funny because i remember earlier in this season uh samsonov was going through it a little bit and said after a game that he never felt comfortable it might have been his return to washington like he didn't feel great and sammy was talking about murray who had just gone out and lost a game and said yeah you know we'll get him next time like he was the guy who seemed like pretty unflapped unflappable and um yeah i i just think the injury thing hurts him in more ways than just you know being injured like it gets in your head that maybe he can't do the same things, that maybe it makes him rustier.

The injuries have more effect than just missing some games to me. And it's hurt his chances of being the best goalie he can this year. The other thing Mike McKenna just did is he kind of talked me out of Joseph Wall. Did he? Yeah, he did. He did. I like the idea of letting him continue to play. Yes. And i agree with that

and also that you don't need to build any more pressure than's already there on either matt murray or even wall like don't overthink it just if you're getting called up we'll tell you that day exactly and just go in there and react don't overthink meat it's bad for the ball club so I'll retract my request to Luke Fox to ask about Joel Wald on the stretcher Kipper

yeah we'll still have it for a great Kippers clip oh okay okay so we're just putting him to the wolves for a project we already know what the answer is. I do think you're getting fire breath on that one. Luke, how dare you? Luke's response to my text was, oh, boy.

You don't have to, Luke. You don't have to. Luke's going to go in there and go, okay. I didn't want to ask this. This is from Nick Kiprios from The Real Kipper and Bourne Show. If we got him on the show, we could just ask him. It's true. That is true.

Well, maybe Pierre will set that up for us. I think he can still come in and do a great job if he just comes in and is right out of the Marlies. Yeah. Right? A goalie's a goalie. No expectations. No, zero.

By the way, if we get there, we're in trouble. Like, they're down three-com or, like, it's not a pretty situation if we get there, we're in trouble. Like they're down three cob or like it's not a pretty situation if we're going throwing wool. Yeah, somebody's hurt. Things have gone awry. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, but I mean, still, it doesn't mean it won't happen. Yeah, that quick one's interesting.

But it's actually a larger version of what we're doing here in Toronto where you're saying this guy has done it, so that's worth X compared to how he's currently playing. It's true. It's two-time cup champion. Like, the parallels are endless. Yeah. He's just older, I guess.

And, I mean, he's a Hall of Famer. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Memory, not so much. There's always someone that still thinks you got it. For sure. And you just got to find that person.

Maybe it's Kyle Dubin. All right. We're going to take a break. We got Adam Oates coming on the other side. We'll get into McDavid's dominance and his appearance at the Junos last night. Did you hear that? I heard on a different show that he announced Nickelback. Yes.

Which to me is the most predictable Connor McDavid band of all time. I'm so unsurprised. But Nickelback is actually quite good, right? Like it's just like they're the coolest band to hate on, but they're quite good. Yes, they are good. They're a good band. Historically, they have put out very popular music and listen they uh like they sell out worldwide tours they're very well selling sort of the wiggles

but wow come on they're a good canadian band let's judge her man they are i'm not gonna sit here and do the thing yeah but i haven't thought about them in about 18 years. Yeah, well, they're still making 60 mil a year on worldwide tours. So is Nickelback, baby. Okay, Adam Oates, Connor McDavid, the Wiggles after the break. Get smarter when you listen to Hockey Talk, the Hockey PDO cast with Dmitry Filippovich. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify,

or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590, The Van. All right, as promised, before the break, let's welcome in Hall of Famer, former NHLer and president of Oats Sports Group, Adam Oates. Oatesy, how are you, pal? I'm good, man. How are you doing? Yeah, we're good. We're good.

I take it on a Saturday night, you had a lot of fun maybe sitting back and watching McDavid, Matthews, Marner show. The amount of skill was unbelievable portrayed that night. It sure was. What a treat for people to see the talent that those guys have. When you, listen, we got to play in an era where we watched brilliance a lot, you know, whether it was you passing the puck or Gretzky or Lemieux. It just seems like now McDavid is head and shoulders above everyone else. Is that fair to say, or is that not giving others a ton of credit as well um you know what he he's having an absolute fantastic season and he does it every night

and you see it every night and you don't you know what you definitely i've always felt you want to compliment someone and you hey you play with the best right like you you know like how do you say gretz is that much better than mess uh and you know I get to play against all those guys right like Gretzky and Mario like like like you're splitting hairs yeah but Connor is having an absolutely fantastic year he does get to play with Leon he does get to play on a team that like to score goals uh but but he's also doing it right and and you know what it's it's one of those it's just you gotta sit back and it's a treat to watch you know i'm curious to get your take on skill around the league that isn't on a team i'm gonna

trevor zieger specifically this guy is an all-world phenom kids are emulating him talking about him but he's playing on the anaheim Ducks who are not in competitive hockey games. He can maybe try some things that he wouldn't be allowed to try. I don't know. What are your thoughts on Zegers' season and his skill versus being a coach and the actual contribution of using that skill towards winning? Well, you know, Trevor's actually one of my clients.

And yes, he's a very talented man. Yeah. But for me personally, there's a difference between Instagram skill and skill. Right. And he's kind of got both. And I'm trying to get the Instagram out of there. You know what? And he's great about it, where he's like,

I just can't help myself sometimes. And yeah, he can do things I can't do and never could, never would have thought of, right? So I get that. But if you're trying the Michigan goal, how many times has he succeeded with it? Is it once, twice? I don't know.

Yeah, twice. Yeah. How many times has he tried? Oh, I don't know. 15? That's a good question. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. 200?

Really? Yes. Oh, that's not a good ratio. Exactly. And that's 198 times that you might be open in the slot looking for a pass. Wow. Oh, is it fantastic? Yes. Is it fantastic? Yes fantastic yes it is it's fantastic like the

one especially i think it was in buffalo they gave the milano incredible because he actually sort of picked it up and saw him right so that's incredible and it is incredible but what i keep telling him is like he scored a goal between his legs better night fantastic then the next night he tried it again in calgary and he lost the fucking lift and what i don't want is him to get hurt because he's sticking a stick between his legs number one and number two what if there's a teammate open because sooner or later your teammates are not gonna like you like they see it but I want to pass too, right? Yeah. So to me, I want to improve his success rate. If you have a window of opportunity to try that play, go ahead.

Otherwise, make the right hockey play at that time. Last time I checked, you get 80 helpers, they're going to like you too. I would imagine that, you know, with a guy now like Pat Verbeek, these conversations must be going on daily, not just you and your client. I would think so, Kipper, because at the end of the day, I'm sure Pat sees his talent, his brilliance, and you know what? Like, are you going to run a power play? I'm sure Pat wants to grow those aspects of his game as well, right? And just become a complete hockey player day in and day out.

And, you know, we all like the occasional one. I got no problem with it either. But if you're looking to do it all the time, I think that's personally a mistake. Yeah, I can see that. You know, I want to draw on your coaching experience too and ask you what you think about what's going on in Torontoonto going 11 and 7 you know i i tweeted last night i just it feels like there's some it it takes a lot of the coach's attention always thinking about what the situation is who's got gas left in the tank you're kind of mixing mixing things up all

the time to me it really it takes your attention away from coaching the rest of the aspects of a hockey game what are your thoughts on going 11 and 7 in your your experience um you know what it sometimes it's very difficult i i got a feeling they're they're experimenting because they brought some guys in uh they've got a history the last couple years what they probably think they need to focus on going in the playoffs they're probably trying to experiment with how that's going to work out um i know that they got 9d right now so i think there's a little bit of rotation you see boston doing that as well so i think i think it's a lot of posturing and maneuvering to try and figure out depending on who they match up against what are we going to do oh see um last year we were talking about austin matthews in the same regards that we're talking

about connor mcdavid this year uh historic uh uh year for him last year uh this year he might be hard pressed to reach 40 goals uh the way his season's been hot and cold do we underestimate does the average joe watching right now underestimate the the mental strain it is going from having that type of season to having another one is that does that get talked enough about depression i would say yeah for sure mean, everybody knows the stats, everybody. And we always know them. And then if you look at the guys in the West Coast, when they show up at the arena,

they're looking to see who scored on the East Coast tonight. Everybody's watching to see how many that guy got. So it's constant. That's a constant evolution. I also know that Toronto hasn't played him with Marner as much this year. So I'm sure that's hasn't played him with Marner as much this year, so I'm sure that has something to do with it. And you know what?

It hasn't quite been as easy for him this year, but I've also watched him lately. I thought he's played really good lately. So, you know what? It's one of the things. He's always going to be an elite goal scorer, and you know what? We're always looking at high numbers. And that's the pressure that he's put on himself with his success.

Well, see, I'm working on a little project for Sportsnet on creating offense and the things that really make a difference, that contribute to quality chances. And one of the biggest things seems to be moving the puck across the middle of the ice, making a pass, get sort of puck movement. You know, what sort of things do you talk about with your guys about things that create quality chances in the NHL?

You know what we have, we have sort of a system of like, when you think about obviously power play, that's number one, right? And then number two would be outnumbered situations. You're entering the zone. Is there something available on an entry? And then there's the five-on-five game. And every team has different rules, right? Some teams like low to high.

Some teams want to go D to D. I like my guys playing behind the net. I like the guys battling behind the net. And that makes you have to D. I like my guys playing behind the net. I like the guys battling behind the net. And that makes you have to battle. You have to win a battle. You got to be prepared to battle. And then, you know what? You got to try and win one.

And you got to escape on your backhand sometimes. Can you do that? And that's a lot of skill necessarily to be able to do that. So, at the end of the day, you need to be able to take advantage of every situation if possible. Which sounds easy, but it's not, of course. We saw that behind the net last night on the game-winning goal

with Tuck. Was that... Who said that? Yeah, Tate Thompson. That's right. That's exactly what you're talking about. And Buffalo's pretty good at creating. Yeah. You look at last year in Calgary, Johnny Goodrell and

Kachuk, they took turns being back there, didn't they? Yeah. They were plus 60. 60. Yeah. And you know what? But I'm not going to lie. It's hard back there. It is. But you've got to be willing to win a battle. But if you get it, but you think about it, the other team, the goalie's got to hug the post.

The other team, the net picks them. So now they have to sort of find coverage, look for that other guy. They lose track of where certain guys are, like the defensemen. So if you can win a battle back there and find a seam, which obviously Gretz was the best, there's openings, and it's a 15-foot shot. I love those plays. Do you find that defensive structure has changed?

I remember for a long time every team played a zone defense. It feels like a lot of teams have gone back to a man-on-man or at least a man-on-man below the sort of hash marks. Has it changed over the years? Yeah, they try different stuff. They tried to swarm one time. I would say that they're definitely still sagging a lot. You know, and that's why you have to win battles

because a lot of teams are trying this third guy high, which is okay. Like, it works at times, too. But now you take a forward, and he goes out to the point. So, like, let's say he shoots it. Now he's at the blue line. So if nothing good happens, it's two against five down there, and he's not going to get caught diving in as F3

because we get yelled at for that. So now it's like you get a lot of one-and-dones because of that. Oh, so you also get yelled at a lot when you turn the puck over in front of your own net Saturday night we saw McLeod serve one up that Mitch Marner absolutely feasted on

and it changed the whole complexion of the game is it just a foregone conclusion now that players are allowed to do that and it's just a matter of you know better execution because I know where my ass would be the moment I made a pass like that. Yeah, you know what? At the end of the day, yes.

You know, you're coming out from behind the net. There's a four checker. You got to know where he is. You got to be able to execute. That's another skill, right? You ask your D all the time. Hey, man, I need you to break us out. You know, in the neutral zone, it's a one, two, two.

Can you beat the first guy, please? You put on your partner's tape and beat that guy so we can get some territory. And you know what? Mitch is obviously a fantastic, crafty guy with a great stick and picked his pocket. Yeah, it's a thing he's exceptional at. You know, I just want to get your thoughts on the Toronto Maple Leafs and their chances against the Tampa Bay Lightning as they almost certainly are forced to play each other here coming up in about four weeks Leafs uh your Tampa struggling a little bit do you think this is the year the Leafs can finally find a way through I would say honestly I Tampa is not the same team they were you know when you win a cup uh guys get raises and it affects with cap, it affects some of your depth.

So I would say, yeah, I would say Toronto's added some pieces that I think are very helpful. I think they're a very good team, and you know what? Maybe it's time. Carolina lost Sveshnikov last night. That's going to be devastating for them. Yeah, it really is. It changes a lot in the East, I think.

It does. It really does. You know, that could be devastating for them. And they're a very, very good team as well. You know, Toronto obviously can score goals at will. That is not their problem. You know, can you match up a team? Can your penalty killing, can your D-zone coverage do the job?

Ryan O'Reilly, the right guy for you at the trade deadline for the Leafs? You know what? Yes. Really good player, big game player, can play every situation. He knows the situation going in, So I really like that move. And the mere fact that he's been there and he's done that, do you think unfortunately losing him can slow down the process of leading off the ice, being a guy that can grab somebody by the collar every once in a while and saying we need more?

Yeah, that definitely factors in. That's a very good point, Kevin,, really good in terms of the last month keeping us on the right path, right? But hopefully he'll get back and the boys will feel that because that is one of his great qualities. It sure is. Hey, O.T., always a pleasure, man. Great insight in everything.

Really appreciate your time. Anytime, guys. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Adam Oates now doing a lot of work. He's the president of Oates Sports Group, and he's got a ton of clients, and a lot of them sometimes looking like Oatsy.

My favorite part of that interview is him talking about Zgris and being like, he's got Instagram skill and real skill, and we're trying to get rid of one. How come when I say it, I'm the dinosaur, but when the Hall of Famer says itis and being like, he's got Instagram skill and real skill, and we're trying to get rid of one. How come when I say it, I'm the dinosaur, but when the Hall of Famer says it, it's like, yeah, he should get off that thing. He had Scott Niedermeyer on last year, and he said the exact same thing. Yeah. With Zgris.

Oh, yeah. About how they're trying to work on that. I actually love, the other thing I love, which I never, he always, that's why I love having him on. He always brings up something that I never thought of. But winning the battle, coming and being able to handle the puck on your backhand coming out of the battle is such an interesting thing that i would never think of but it happens so often behind the net where you have to fire that backhand pass it's a dry saddle feasts and same

with and like you said last night tuck who beats mccabe and no look backhand pass right on the tape to tuck it's it's such an important skill beat mccabe mccabe was fine position he's made a behind the back sick play yeah yeah no that's fair yeah he was the closest guy who was that's all all high talent yeah you know the other thing is like they're big they're big and they're big and they're strong and they got long sticks and size matters. Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

There's like, I would say there's a resurgence in the awareness of people being aware of this. Like the Penguins won the cup in 16, 17, 17, 18 and they were a smaller team and people were like,

maybe you don't have to be big anymore. And then like the next five or six years,'s been big teams that have that have won the cup so it is a relevant thing you know what i thought was interesting was his point about and this is something the leafs do is they run a forward high in the offensive zone between the d and they're they get a pass and then you know this kind of creates a coverage problem do you come out which it's a coverage problem but what are you creating from there that's, you know, it kind of creates a coverage problem. Do you come out and, which it's a coverage problem, but what are you creating from there that's dangerous? You know, at best you pull someone away, but if you get a shot,

you're nowhere near it to outnumber the other team. Shin pads a lot of times. Yeah. I like the idea that it does create difficulty for the defense, but it's almost like you've got a bad three-point shooter standing outside the three-point line. You're like, have it. You can have it out there. Russell Westbrook from the three-point line, you're like, have it. You can have it out there.

Russell Westbrook from the three-point line, you're like, chuck it up there, baby. So it's an interesting note because I typically have watched that and been like, ooh, I like that. But yeah, what have I really seen generated off it? Not a ton. And it gets tighter and tighter

as we get towards the playoffs. Yeah. And a lot of teams are more capable and content to let you have the puck and just say, yeah, you can have it on the paint. Good luck bringing it to this part. This is where you need to get to. It will be here.

So that has typically been a problem for Toronto. It has. Especially around Hedman, Sergeyev, and McDonough. McDonough. McDonough. Who's no longer there. Nope. That's part of the change that Adam Oates was just talking about with Tampa. Like, sometimes it has to catch up to you.

Yeah, and Chernak is a guy who can help them there too, but he's hit and miss. Like Bogosian, when he was here, I think some people thought, I don't know if he can do it anymore. Cole. Two years now. Cole, Herbix, hayden flurry yes you know like once you get past their top three or so you like where the leafs look or how the leafs look yeah but you also look at their top no i don't play half the game

yeah right so you're gonna have to attack the time that they don't play which is why you want to have improved depth which is you know they've done so the worst part is you don't just have to beat them once eh like they won't beat tampa in a game and it's like again now three more times again with before they beat you four times yeah that's all right adam oates also mentioned sveshnikov out for the rest of the season i think uh the canes made an official announcement that he will have season and playoff ending surgery. Yes. That, as Otzi said, is devastating.

And you've got to wonder now in the East where that kind of leaves Carolina in the first round against a wild card team that became a little bit easier to defend. Yeah.

Because Sveshnikov, although his numbers aren't fantastic, he's so hard to defend. Big, strong. Oh, and you should see playoff player. There's teams now going good great oh if you're the penguins right now so first off mike kelly put this out on svechnikov his team ranks

on carolina third and golden goals and assists second and points second and expected goals third and ozone possession third and slot passes third and slot shots third and rush chances first and rebound chances blah blah blah It goes on and on. He's a top dog for them in a major way. So to your point, if you're the first wildcard team is going to get the Bruins, night-night, the second wildcard team is going to get either Carolina or New Jersey.

If you're the Pittsburgh Penguins, Carolina minus Svechnikov? Oh, yeah. Who do you like? Who are you picking? Because I would much rather play Carolina than New Jersey. Carolina minus S fechnikov oh yeah who do you like who are you picking i because i would much rather play carolina than new jersey carolina minus fechnikov yes new jersey is is young though you know like in terms of their most important people and we've seen in toronto it can take some experience the penguins have yes the penguins would be tampa bay versus old toronto right like

this is young stars on the come up versus wily guys who know how to do it i'm just looking at their like they are a deep team in terms of they have good players on all four lines right pittsburgh no carolina like there's still a oh yeah really good team but they've always solid blue line right they also have eat yes they're great there they also have yes he pooled the rv on the top line yeah well that just brings me uh to the next topic here at least with uh carolina is like this is where again if you want to compete for a stanley cup this is the old kind of you need six seven eight defense uh nine defensemen you need depth yeah and they they go cheap that's why the pulley rv's there they go cheap and this is it's gonna come back and haunt them that they did not yeah not that you can forecast a star player going down but you have to have those conversations if we lost so and so who's there

they could have got timo meyer carolina could have they didn't want to part with picks yeah well they're going to part with a stanley cup chance right you know that that is the a team that has been this close for this long you know how many years they've been real contenders three straight years yeah and not making a bigger move at the deadline it's unfortunate bad luck with the svechnikov thing but they didn't protect against it in any meaningful way they did not what draft was that sammy svechnikov's um doleen yeah it was it was definitely was and where was it was the svechnikov number two or three i think i'm just pulling it up right now i'm running 19 and Ovi punched him in the mouth? Oh, my God.

He punched him out. Yeah. Yeah, it was. He was two. And then Kokanyemi, who plays for the... Oh, my God. Two over there. Kokanyemi won?

Yes. Because you know who went fourth? Yeah. Brady Kachuk. Oh! Oopsie! Oopsie. Oopsie.

That is an oopsie Kachuk is I've said this to you guys before but If we're drafting our teams From a pool of players in the league Brady Kachuk would be scary high on my list We've done the Brady point thing He's got 41 now If you were Buffalo

Would you take in a do over Brady over Dahlia Would you? No I don't think so If you were Buffalo, would you take in a do-over? Brady over Darlene? Yes. Would you? No, I don't think so. Now that you're at this point with Darlene, I think you've got... I like Darlene. This is not a Darlene knock.

I just love Brady Kachuk. Me too. Me too. That one's... Yeah. That's a good one. Brady Kachuk, like Ottawa's doing, is a centerpiece. Identity guy.

But he's just... He's miserable to play against, right? Oh, miserable. Like, he's just. And I love defense, too. Yeah. Now that you got Owen Power and you know you got Power, it's a lot easier to say I would. You know, because you want that number one D,

and you wouldn't have had it. But then now that you know you have Power, it's a lot easier to go, in a redraft, I would. If you're a smaller defenseman and you're like, Brady Kachuk's in front of the net on the power play, you're trying to you're just like god i don't i don't want to do this you take a brady over uh a healthy sveshnikov too right yep yeah oh yeah yeah yeah what's brady got for goals i think he's he's at 26 in the year yeah like he's gonna have 66 points and 66 games he'll have a 40 goal season at some point he had 30 last year he's a yeah i know like what's he 23 or four or something like that yeah

if you're redrafting that draft which is a really interesting one you know that's you know quinn hughes went seven in that draft like there's it's an interesting one looking down the name of guys the leafs get i don't know if they had a first round pick in that one. They did. Rasmus Sandin, 29th. Alright, speaking of injuries. Has Rasmus Sandin scored five, any more points? I haven't really been keeping track. Is he red hot still? I just know that Lilligren bigged him up in some

interview recently. How many points does he have, seriously? Eight points in four games. He's Dmitry Orlov in reverse. He's just, yeah. Anybody got any points on the lease the last four games uh outside of well probably mitch yeah mitch has no defense yeah no no no not a not a real concern all right um leckan in colorado out four to six weeks will not play against toronto tomorrow night with a broken finger with the Ryan O'Reilly injury they've had brutal injury promises

between those two not a lot of finger pointing brutal injury luck this year for them Colorado awful everyone's been hurt just does not end I guess that's I guess that's part and parcel with a long run to the Stanley Cup finals and guys get banged up

and short summer. And, like, it's just maybe that's something to do with it. It's a grind to get there. You didn't clip Nathan McKinnon's comments, did you? I didn't, but I can tell him what he said. What did he say? He said that – I'm just pulling it up here. Give me two seconds.

Uh-oh. He's – Can you hear me typing? He's now – they're playing the underdog. Let me update you on where Colorado's at while he's looking it up. He said, I'm not, he's like, I'm sure nobody wants to see us in the first round if we are in a wildcard spot. Why is he talking about the wildcard spot?

They're in third and the central right now, barely. Well. Yeah, I guess they're going the wrong way a little bit. Now they're the underdogs. Is that what it is? Sure. That's big in the start of the playoffs coaches just desperately vying to position their team as the underdog wait till you hear

sheldon keith talk about the tampa bay lightning before this playoff oh my god oh my god this tampa bay lightning team is gonna best team on earth he wax poetic. Yeah. It's like, there, you know, I can predict it now. They're just getting redundant. Been to three Stanley Cup finals. You know, all their guys have been there. I mean, listen, they're half Hall of Famers, guys. I mean, the goaltender is the best person to ever exist. So, they are one point up on a wild card spot, Colorado.

Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. And what's, I know we're going to get into probably Colorado a lot more on tomorrow's show as the Toronto Maple Leafs await them. But Gorgiev, is it Gorgiev?

Georgiev? No, Gorgiev. First, Georgiev. Overall, like, McKenna kind of crowned Samsonov as a, yes, a number one goalie. How about this guy? Jury's out.

Jury's still out. He's having it. He's 2-6-3, 9-17 say percentage. So he's pretty league. A little bit above league average. Okay. So that keeps him in the ballpark. Yeah.

Like, I mean, I don't think he'd be any better or worse than kemper what's kemper done this year right like it's you're right it's crazy looking at the west and what the matchups will be like i'm going to give you the first round where the to end today you'd be looking at uh colorado minnesota dallas edmonton that's a throwback series winnipeg vegas and la seattle like i don't mean like is there who is a contender there colorado's a contender edmonton's a contender vegas don't stay up don't stay don't come to real kipper i'm born for the detailed breakdown of the king series but i uh it's funny that edmonton dallas you think back to all those series that they used to have when they would be like the closest sweeps of all time where they'd go to double OT in every game

and Dallas would beat them in four straight. But that's funny. Like, you're right. It's just we can get back into the conversation about the East versus West. But, like, look what the first round matchups would be in the Eastern Conference. Those would be Boston versus the Islanders.

Yes. Tampa, Toronto. The Hurricanes versus the Penguins. New Jersey, Rangers. Slugfests. New Jersey versus the Rangers is a thrill ride. How much skill would be in that series? I just, I don't, i can't believe the teams that are

going home early yeah and like i don't uh in the west seattle lost last night to dallas are they slipping here they are they're they're slipping a bit they the thing is there's no one in ninth in the west to threaten them like nash Nashville has got two or three games in hand. They do. That's a good point. They do six right there, but their team stinks. Yeah,

but they saw that's a problem. They sold and yeah, they got rid of the good guys. Well, some of them, but no, no Tanner, you know,

but they are, there's six points behind the Winnipeg jets, but with three games in hand. So theoretically they're in the hunt. The Calgary flames are also six points behind the Winnipeg Jets, but with three games in hand. So theoretically, they're in the hunt. The Calgary Flames are also six points back of the Jets. No games in hand. They've got Arizona tonight. Flames, yeah.

And then Vegas, Dallas, LA Kings. Yeah. Vegas twice, I think, in a week and a half. But they got a lot of California teams. Kings, Ducks, Sharks, Kings. It's not going to happen for them, guys. No, it's not. I've watched a ton of them this year, and it's just they can't score.

No pulse, no puck movement. It's confounding to me. They just cannot score. And just like that, right? Just Matthew Kachuk. Okay, we felt maybe 50-50 on Johnny Hockey staying there, but the Matthew Kachuk just turned that franchise upside down. So, yeah.

So some of the, like, stat digging I do, they're the worst team at, like, passing the puck. They don't have a lot of offensive puck movement. They're kind of stationary, whatever. Oates talked about those guys were always behind the net. 100%. That's the first thing i thought of when he said it was that oh my god he's right yeah between those two guys

and uh uh elias uh lynn home yeah they were like the best line they were literally the best line in the league by goals for goals against yeah how do you replace 200 and what do they have 210 points between those two guys they're like we got huberto and cadre but it's like huberto's got 44 points in 60 some games and cadre's numbers came back to yeah where his numbers are good i think he's got 46 or 49 points in 60 games yeah not quite but yeah he'll finish with 75 80 points yeah maybe not quite that high but yeah it's been a good year. You know, he's been a useful guy. Yeah, good on, he's 49.67, but good on the man.

He had an unbelievable contract year where he went to the Stanley Cup final, he scored a winning goal in the final. Like, he did, he had the ideal contract year. This man has checked all the boxes. He really did. He got his cup, he got his money. Yeah, it's pretty good to be naz i would imagine yeah yeah all right uh i did mention earlier uh uh connor mcdave uh mcdavid

at the junos you want to hear uh listen to how he opened it up okay do we have the clip oh boy this was in Edmonton. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. MVP!

MVP! MVP! Does he say something here? He's coming. He's building it up. This is for you, Sammy. Oh, yeah. He just starts.

You guys are too much. He made it as a bludgeon. You. He just starts. You guys are too much. You guys are too much. You guys are too much. You know how much I love playing here in front of you guys. There it is, Sammy. Oh, yeah. He's not coming to Toronto. Okay, yeah, yeah.

He announced it last night at the Junos. And then he drank a cup of actual oil after. That's his commitment to the city. Sorry, pal. We had a poll on our – oh, it's's gone now but it was over 50 percent of people said that nickelback rocks over 57 is that what you just said over 50 over 50 oh wow so it's i you know it's nice we do not agree it's nice to see these guys go out and try to you know be be normal,

non hockey robots. But like you saw him interviewed on the red carpet too. And she's like, Oh my God. Really? Oh yeah. It's like pulling tea. I feel bad for him. Like he's obviously not comfortable with it.

He just happens to be awesome at hockey. Yeah. Like there's no thing. It's like, I happen to be the best at this. I don't want to do that part. And they're like, well,

if you're going to do that, you got to do that. Was Sid really for the majority of his career, any different? No. Did he come across, like. No. They're just hockey players. That's all they want to do is just play.

Love the game. Love hanging out with the guys. Sid's. Behind the scenes. Grown up. He's better now, but he's got his cups. Connor's still got the, like, I don't have the cups yet. The edge.

You know, like.nor needs to get that family wholesome brand tim hortons behind him that's right you know we we get a little of this on uh when we watch the basketball uh tnt with uh charles barkley oh yeah and shack yeah i can't imagine what it would be like to be a a true in the league, but always have that, eh, you never won anything. You never won. It's awful, too. You're not in the club.

It's like Barkley's just, yeah, anytime he makes a good point and frustrates them, they're just like, you never won. You know, it's like, oh, God. Yeah, it's pretty cool to have the secret recipe. You should drop the trump card. I wonder what band Sidney Crosby would introduce. Oh, Nickelback as well. Except Crosby liked Follow the Leader

was his favorite album. Or the Rankin family from the East Coast. That's probably what it is. It's Sloan all day long. What are you guys talking about? Sloan, yeah. Hey, did we also on YouTube have a poll on Joseph Wall?

Didn't I see that? I don't know. I never saw that. Is it they're just gone oh it's gone they fire them up and then i'm talking to you guys and then they go and they're gone we didn't get a final result on whether or not people wanted to see joseph wall in i think i'm gonna make luke fox ask and then we'll see what happens 96 said yes well it's always the it's best, these polls, the recency bias polls, where it's just like, do you trust the least goaltending? And it's like, no.

Dash three, and it's like, is Lillard good? No. He is good. He's a very good defenseman. Anything coming out of the general manager meetings at all? Yeah. Kyle Dubas confirmed what we already knew, but he said that Ryan O'Reilly is expected to return to Leafs lineup

before the playoffs. Thank God. You know what? Give his little body a break, too. With a finger, he can exercise, too. They were very fortunate because of the type of break he suffered to his finger. Oh, good. That's all that's come out that's significant.

That's what happened in Florida. Ryan's fine. Everybody needed to go to Florida to find that out. We sent a crew, cameramen, what's the result? Ryan's fine.

And pucks over the glass. There's some la-di-da golf course that doesn't have a lot of tee times today. Let's just say that. They're down there grinding. What? But apparently, yeah, like we talked about it yesterday right like

they're just discussing the fights after clean hits and the puck over glass and it's real it's real heavy stuff you know yeah planning the uh nhl all-star weekend again maybe you're gonna have a tough time finding a golf course here though yeah maybe they could talk about the cap going up maybe that should be number one on their thing. It's like, maybe drive... How can we drive... I know it's not them that... But, like, maybe they could come up with some theories,

the guys that run hockey. Maybe we can drive this cap upwards so that good teams can sign more good players. How about good teams can keep their good players? Yeah, that would be even... Just pass a hat around the crowd during the game. Would you like to keep all your stars? If so.

Yeah, put a dollar in. Chip in, buddy. You already paid for your seats. You want to watch good players or bums? It's like back in the day when the Jays with Jose Bautista, they were like, they wanted to sign Irvin Santana so bad. They were like, had like a meeting about taking less on their salaries so that they could sign them.

That happened. That's funny. I love the idea that there is a hard salary cap, but anything above that, that your fans are willing to contribute, you can also spend. Wow. So a big market like Toronto says,

hey, everyone chuck us a five spot and we can raise whatever that equals, $5 million, and we can spend the $5 million. And Arizona tough beans. You don't have the... They do that. It's called renewing your season tickets

at a new 15% hike. Yeah, but that money goes to the whole league's salary caps, not just their team's salary cap. Yeah. I would love... They share. Yeah. Oh, they share.

They're chipping in an old mullet arena down there. Don't worry. Oh, my gosh. I'd buy that for a dollar. It tries... Yeah, it's got a drink i mean nuts uh there's a connor bedard game tonight i think isn't there is it they see on the schedule oh i think you meant on the lineup no no i don't know i don't know oh a a bad yes a really bad oh a

bedard bowl yes a bedard bowl uh are you talking about calgary arizona columbus san jose sharks columbus san jose that's gotta be pretty there yeah so it's lean friends and family watching that one tampa new jersey tonight i am continuing my scouting trip on the tampa bay lightning yeah i will be i'll be watching that closely just to see it It's a big game for them, you know. They're fast, as we know, with New Jersey. And Tampa's been scuffling a bit. So the amateur scout I'm going to be watching tonight. Keep an eye on now.

People getting hurt. I know. This is the time of year. We're in the window now. You're a little tired. You're not quite near that new juice you're going to get from around the corner playoff start. Too far away. It happens.

Hey, can we get Bobby McMahon in the damn lineup? He has 18 goals in his last 17 AHL games now. Really? Yeah. That's a phenomenal run. It's ridiculous. That doesn't happen really in the NHL either. And I know he's not here to score, but he had four games with the Leafs, and he was great.

Am I out of my mind? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Not that I think he's going to be a big contributor, but, like, rest some guys. You don't need injuries. I know we're running out of time here, but we'll get into it tomorrow. But, like, even a guy like Holmberg who came in, looked like he was gaming and poof, gone. Disappeared.

Alex Thieves. The problem is they have real bottom six players now. That's true. Mike McKenna, thank you so much for joining us. Adam Oates, same thing. You guys were fantastic. Enjoy your night. We're back tomorrow,

teeing up Colorado versus the Toronto Maple Leafs. If you get a chance, give us a rating and review. We always love hearing from you. Hit the like button, all of that technical stuff that JB likes. I don't care. I love me, but he's really insecure. Hit the like button.

Have a good one.