Real Kyper & Bourne - NHL's Youth Takeover with Jason Bukala

Episode Date: October 24, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Oilers' 6-5 win over the Canadiens and discuss some questionable officiating, Habs players voicing their complaints post-game, and whether Josh Anderson deserved an unsportsmanlike penalty for 'showing up the refs.' Former NHL scout Jason Bukala (13:02) shares his thoughts on the call, the Habs' ceiling, the sustainability of Matthew Schaefer's early-season impact, the Sharks' upward trajectory with budding stars in Macklin Celebrini and Will Smith, and much more. Later, Nick, Justin and Sam share some Jays thoughts ahead of Game 1 of the World Series, look at the Penguins' unexpected hot start, and discuss how the Lightning get back on track from their slow start.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Huge night ahead on the network. Because we're doing regional hockey. That's what it is. Welcome to the real Kipper and Bourne show that Kiprios, Justin Bourne. Sammy McKee, a very pumped up, Sammy McKee, along for the ride, Derek Brandeo. Frank the tank Barasca FTT

that is awesome In a while since we've had them on the show And we're excited This hour of Real Kipper and Bourne Brought to you by Bet365 In a few minutes we'll welcome in Jason Bucola Have we had Jason on this year? No books

No books first time Pro hockey group and sports net Puckpedia And of course Best known as his Wisdom brought him here scouting, right? This guy knows.

Former NHL, pro scout, Florida Panthers, especially. His fingerprints are still all over those Stanley Cups. Are they not? You know, there are some guys who leave an organization who deserve credit when a cup is won, and he deserves half a ring, at least, for some of the guys on that team. And he has a piece up on sports at dot T.A, too, because we were talking about McKenna and the Flames,

and we're on in Calgary, and he was talking about who else may be a good, a good in this draft coming up. And he answers some questions. Yes, there you go. Wherever you're watching, listening, SportsSet 360, SportsSept 650 in Vancouver, Sportsnet 960 in Calgary, and streaming always on SportsNet Plus. We're glad you were bored. And when you can't reach us, look for us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube,

although some are telling me that it gets loaded really late. On YouTube? Yeah, so we have our wonderful people looking into that right now. I just, you know, like yesterday there was nobody at Leafs practice from here. Like I think, like I love our show and I love the Leafs and I love, you know, the coverage that we're just, you know, rightfully so right now. We're not the priority. We've pushed some chips in on the World Series. Yeah, I went down to the dome yesterday and bought a World Series hat.

Hey! It's time, baby. It's time. There are people out there. Not everybody loves, you know, baseball in general, and they want their hockey, though. Yeah, sure. There are still a few out there.

I've heard from those people. We're not three of them, but they're out there. No. Right? No, we're not three of them. Good hockey watch a night last night, though. Busy. Really great hockey watch a night.

Let's start off with Montreal and Edmonton because there is a sense out of Montreal that they got screwed. last night by the officials. There is that sense out of Montreal. I'm not sure. Do you guys think, what did you think of the call on Josh Anderson on sportsman like?

Well, you can't, like I've watched a hundred replays trying to kind of, and I haven't seen a definitive like what really was like. So he shot the puck down the ice and then he skated the ref tapping his stick on there. He was like way to go around. He gave him a free one.

Yeah, like. Before we get into it. It's a sportsman like? No. Is it a penalty? Also, no. Before we get into it, let's go to Cole Cofield, who had a few choice words about the officiating after the game.

Let's start there. I'm still trying to figure that out. I think roughs kind of took over the game there, and, you know, kudos to them for winning it. Ooh, sassy. Is that a fine? Yeah. I don't know.

Do you want to hear, I thought Brennan Gallagher was great, too, on it? I listened to all of them, but this was my other favorite clip from it. If we could listen to that Gallagher clip, please, Frank. It wasn't clear, though, what the penalty on Josh was. It was on sports, Malaggy Felt he showed him up. He didn't. I mean, the fact that you don't know what it is, you know, it goes to show. You know, being an official is, obviously, you know, you have to understand the temperatures of the game,

and that's part of it. You have to control it. You know, especially when it's a close game. You know, we're out playing them. We're out shooting them. They're getting more power plays than us. We feel like we deserve some. We didn't get them fine.

We're battling. We're playing for it. It just seems like it's the same story. You know, it's, they're really good players. They don't need the help. I actually really like that comment. I've always hated how much I like Gallagher. You know, it's just one of those guys in the other team where I just would love to hate him,

but I just can't say I do. He's a battler. Okay. Cares. This is where I want to take this. Before we focus in on that particular incident with Josh Anderson, I want to take a bigger look at this from high above 60,000 feet here. Okay.

Do we have a problem between the players and the referees on sportsmen likes? Or, like, is there anything going on there? or is the relationship been pretty good between players and officials? I think the relationship is very good. Okay. I mean, unless you have some reason. I know, I don't see a real big problem here. I know there's some in Montreal today calling for an investigation into the officials' call last night.

Like, in no world of mind does there need to be any type of investigation. and if there is, then there better be bigger, more samples than that last night. Do they think they're hard done by? Sorry to burst a bubble in Montreal, but there's been bad calls in hockey for 100 years. So, like, if you think it's a bad call, maybe it'd be a bad call, but I don't think it warrants an investigation because your team got screwed. No. Yeah, like, listen, Montreal has squeezed every point out of this season they could.

Go ahead. Yeah, no, cool. You know, they last second goals against Chicago, OT winners. They had been squeezing points out of things last night. They got an unfortunate break or two. And I think that happens in games and series, and you got to overcome them. They didn't kill the penalties.

I didn't like the unsportsman they call. Not a penalty. The call for the power play before was a McDavid trip on McDavid, where, yeah, I think it's a penalty. I mean, we've sat here a million times. You want the best players in the game to be protected. You want them to get, he gets hauled down. It's a penalty.

And we, in our game, have 50, 50 calls. We have 60, 40 calls. It's that fine of a line. Yeah, I don't like the call. Yeah, I like the call. That has historically been our game in our game, and it will continue to be in our game forever,

where you get to go, that's not a penalty. And someone else goes, yes, that's a penalty. So there has to be a level of acceptance there. I just think, again, from a bigger, broader view that, you know, the leeway that we have with our hockey players and the officials

first of all is way better than I've seen in other leagues and I'll go back to swear at an official and not always get a penalty can we just can we okay the focus

we've watched a lot of baseball lately I watch you know Boone the manager from New York I've seen Schneider Walker is the pitching coach

you even sneeze on a bad call they will throw your ass out done regular season don't care playoffs you can really get your opinion like I mean okay Gino Suarez in the playoffs all I know is he didn't toss all I know is those umpires

have a way shorter fuse for what they want to take from either players or managers than we have in hockey on sportsman like in the NFL if you celebrate let alone if you complain about calls so like again people aren't privileged

I know there's mics on the ice but people are not privileged to the back and forth which happens constantly in our game okay and you can tell a referee to you know you can tell them a lot of things and they can come back at you

but nobody gets thrown out of the game and very seldom will they ever give you a two-minute minor for a sportsman like if you just hold your your word or your argument and you just even if you're in their face even if you tell them F off that's a horrible call they'll turn around they'll talk to you and then it's move on it's the showing up that I didn't like last night and I did have it

as a showing up the official. The big stick slap on there is well looking at him while skating at him. No, no, no, no, no, Sammy. Sammy, Sammy. Sammy, Sammy. Sammy, Sammy, Sammy, Sammy. You can go and tell him that's a horse sheep.

Oops. Oops. Sheep. That was horse sheep. He pulled that up. Yeah, you can tell him. Go to first base. Did he go? I caught myself there.

Didn't go. No full swing. Check swing. Check swing. swing you can go and tell him that it's a you know what call and i didn't like it and you're fine you want to get into now the the beaver tapping on the officials that's showing them up i don't care can i can i push back on that it's after a goal is scored no one's seeing it happening the whole fans are celebrating happy it's like it's a we saw it no everybody

he saw live it's an afterthought if it doesn't if he doesn't call it it doesn't even doesn't know what's watched and what isn't that's not up to the official to sit there and go defend the habs but i thought that he got absolutely job that's one of the worst calls i've seen in a long time if that happened to the least i'm apoplectic so i can't talk it to both sides right here's here's here's where it is for the officials i let josh anderson tap a call that he's making fun of everybody's got the green light you won't want to see that now after a bad call guys tapping their sticks like they're looking for you know applause from somebody or no no you don't get to tap and mock an official's call with your

stick i'm sorry and that was after he shot the puck down it wasn't it shot the puck down the ice that did it it was the tapping of the stick it also it pointed the finger at the ref when it was anderson's guy who comes in dry saddle slips behind him and scores the goal so it's like whoa don't look at me look at this guy the other thing i will say I'm with you. Okay, good. I think you're right. Okay.

The, the, NHL's website keeps a net penalties. So like how many you've taken versus how many you've drawn. The Montreal Canadians are dead middle of the league at minus one. The Leafs are minus three. You know,

the Blackhawks, the Jets, Kings. The oil are plus six. And that's fifth in the league. Minnesota Wild plus 14. Plus 14. Avalanche plus 10. Fast teams.

Draw penalty. That's it. Here's my last. word on that is that it's the NHL man and we got kids watching and they love to mock the pros if Josh Anderson gets away with tapping his stick to mock an official then all we're doing is telling every 12 or 13 year old it's okay when you get a bad call against you Look at the official and applaud it with your stick, that call. Now, the coach gets to go back to the 12-year-old kid and say,

Oh, somebody. Think of the children. He got a penalty. Don't do it. It's that simple, Sammy. It's an incredibly high-paced, energetic, emotional game, and he taps his stick on the ice, and you send him to the box with the best power play in the league.

It's a horse bleep call. We're going to stick with baseball things. When you keep the bat on your shoulder with two strikes and one's near the zone, you might get a bad call. When Josh Anderson, you want to play with fire, you might get a bad thing. Sure. All right. Let's, I'm not going to defend, refs.

Let's not ask, guys. Let's ask a head scout, pro scout, Jason Buchla. Been around a long time. Bookes, what's going on, pal? How are you? Boy, that was a ridiculous call. What do you know? You're just a scout.

Give me a break. It's the National Hockey League. This isn't freaking minor hockey. Got to send a message, teach somebody a lesson when they're 10 or 12 years old. Stupid. Montreal deserved much better fate last night. I'm not going to. I actually thought this should have got a couple of saves.

I didn't like how Monty was tracking the puck very well. But give me a break. Stupid. Tell us how you really feel. Stupid call. There we go. It's over. It's gone. It's gone. Outside of that, have we seen enough of a sample size to say that Montreal is going to be right in the thick of things in the Atlantic Division all season long? The energy, the vibe, the excitement. All good for you so far? Really good for me. To believe? To believe.

I believe they're not a wildcard team. I think they're a top three team in the Atlantic. I mean, what I like about them guys is, and it's already starting to show, I'm sure you guys have noticed this as well, is the pace that certain teams are playing with compared to others. Like I'm already noticing some of the veteran teams, i.e. in Toronto, like, look at Utah play.

Look in New Jersey when they come in, although they have a mix there. Obviously, look at Montreal. They got an interesting mix of some veterans and some youth, but boy oh boy like last night i i wasn't fearful at all that they couldn't track up and down the ice with edmonton's quickest players this team plays fast they got tons of skill they're resilient they push back when it's necessary physically and you know what they got tons of depth so if things were to go off the rails like dovish were to get injured or monti goes down with injury

between the pipes he got fouler down there in the miners who's a stud and they can pull him in and trust me he can play on hl games right now and uh you know you go start going through like Owen Beck could come up and plug in the bottom six and do a real nice job defensively even if he doesn't find anything offensively they just got so much momentum so much depth so much flexibility this team's a problem they're not going away for a long time books the NHL these days there's 32 teams a lot of teams there it's not as physical as it used to be is it easier to have success as a rookie or a young player in the NHL today. I'm looking at the top 10 in rookie

scoring. Emmett, Finney, Schaefer, Kappan, Bouillon, Demadov, Seneke, you know, Snuggaroo, Nikitian, Ryan Leonard, like there's a lot of really impactful young players now. Is it just a little bit easier than it used to be to have an impact young? So on that list,

as soon as you, when you spit it out there for a second, I was going to say yes. And then I started thinking about that list there. Like you think about Z, Boeum, and, in Minnesota you think about Ryan Leonard even think about Seneca like these guys play the game hard physical like they play that style of a game on top of being able to what they do offensively so I think that they are they're suited for whatever would come their way but on

balance I have to agree with you I really do I think that out of the box between games one and 82 whether you're a rookie or not that it's just not as physical as it used to be it's a track meat nowadays and these youngsters come into the league generally speaking they play fast and they get away from contact more often than not and they're not fearful because they're kind of

egging you on to chase them down if that makes any type of sense. I think the game in regular season especially in the first segment call it 20 games is shot out of a cannon and yeah I think there's more space for those guys. You're watching and listening to Jason Bucula Pro Hockey Group

in SportsSet Analyst, NHL Scout, former NHL Scout, now we get them full-time. Bukes, you mentioned Montreal Atlantic Division where we didn't really anticipate is the tough start in Toronto, Tampa, and Florida here. Which one surprises you the most? Tampa Bay, I would say. I have Vasilevsky on my radar to come into the season better prepared to get out of he'll get off to Schneider early and play more to his

what we're used to seeing out of him, that elite level of play. They just, they're losing close games. It's losing close games to teams that they should be beating. They look a little bit destroyed, not a little bit destroyed that they are. There are already eight points, I think eight or ten points now back

of the top of the table and the division. And we'll see where that goes. I'm keeping kind of a close eye on that. I guess Cooper's quietly got an extension in the offseason. and I'm not suggesting for one second that they're looking and make a coaching change. But what I'm saying is that they're used to performing at a much higher level than this. And you can't chase the play. You can't chase the game getting into November, as we all know.

Toronto's right there with Ledo, too, guys. I'm more concerned about the Leafs than I thought I would. I hadn't picked to win the Atlantic. They still might win the Atlantic. But I'm, I got way more concerns than I thought I was going to have. I thought Dakota Joshua would come in and, yes, play physical. I think he's got 21 hits so far, but I think he's dash six at the same time, if I'm not mistaken. Then at the top of the table, like Max Dolmy, whether you want to believe it or not, statistics, stats or stats,

but he's been credited with one body check in seven games. How does an energizer bunny like that who's at his best when he's involved creating havoc a little bit to open up space for not only himself, but other people only have that? They look moody to me. They don't look engaged for a full 60 minutes. The goaltender called them out. The coach is getting frustrated. They're missing somebody on the right flank at the top of the table. Nealander will slide in there, but I'm not so sure right now.

I'll give it some time here. You know, that 10 game segment starts to tell me things. 15 is going to be a problem. I don't like the mood. I don't like the look. I don't like the identity of the group right now. And it gets late awfully early in the NHL. Yeah, no doubt about that.

Hey, uh, Bukes, yesterday we had, uh, Matthew Darshon, and we talked a little bit about about Matthew Schaefer. Feels like everyone who talks to anyone related to prospects needs to have a Matthew Schaefer conversation. Are you surprised with what he's done so far this season? Uh, I saw something like on his burst of speed. He's up there with, you know, some of the fastest guys in the league already and how consistently he's getting up to those paces.

Yeah. No, I'm not the least with surprise. because the character is off the charts. And this kid has already lived through more bad days, fellas at such a young age than most young people maybe live in their lifetime. He's gone through a lot, right? And he's persevered. And I looked at his body type, obviously, you know, he got injured at the World Juniors.

We all know that. And then he had no choice, but just just kind of trained and be ready for the draft. At the draft, when we had him at the combine, and I looked at it, like his physical makeup. And then I looked at him in LA, which was an awesome experience. And one that I just want to throw something out there. That day for that kid is one of those moments. I wish we were in the Montreal at the Bell Center a couple of years ago so we could really soak in in front of 20,000 people.

Because our old way of doing the draft, he's so deserving of that moment. But anyways, I digress. I looked at his body type at the end of the summer when he hit camp. And boy, oh, boy, did he put in the work for him? This kid's a complete player. this guy this guy is a complete player and he's going to be a norris trophy type of conversations for years to come and and dare i say he's like the next coming on the island of like a denny pot fan type of uh staple for the islanders going forward future captain so i mean yes the the character is just as much as you've ever seen on any pick any top pick and probably our history it's it's it's there everybody cannot talk about this kid without mentioning it first is that enough and along with his attributes physical attributes already is that enough to exempt him from too much too soon for an 18 year old kid no i i can't i'm

never going to exempt him um from any of that it's a process uh kipper there's going to be some some down times here there's you know right now out of the box to borne's uh point right out of you know his question know, his question about how some of these rookie guys have more space or it's not as hard for them when they enter the league right now, just the way the game's played. He's played heavy minutes. He's playing all situations. But trust me, as you guys know, the games will just get exponentially more difficult, right? So if the islanders are hanging around the playoff mix in the metro or in the east, it's just

going to get harder and harder and harder. And then after Christmas time, there's going to be some speed bumps here, some speed wobbles for sure and I'm expecting that it's not going to be a straight line trajectory but that's where when I'm scouting players I always like to tell some stories like I've met players along the way have told me stories about you know how they've had to overcome things or if I go to if I go to Michigan State and a week and a half to watch Penn State play Gavin McKenna's coming in there it's going to be a hostile environment if I find out that that week that he was suffering through a little bit of the flu or he had to write an exam and it was really tough.

and you know it just he had a lot of distractions but he still presents his a game whatever that is on the Friday night and if he's not impacting it offensively he does a lot of other things that's the way Matthew Schaefer's built so on his worst days he's going to find a way to impact the game if it's not offensively he'll get buttoned up defensively he'll outlet pucks he'll stay above the play he won't pinch down he's so smart that way but listen these guys will all have hurdles to overcome he hasn't even gone through every uh uh arena in the the league yet. He hasn't even experienced all the travel. So there'll be some, there'll be some speed wavows along the way. Yeah, well, he's certainly been impressive, and that's been, you know, very encouraging from someone paying attention to the Islanders a little bit. Another young superstar and Calder hopeful, Ivan Demadov, obviously someone that you talk quite a bit, going, you know, when he first came over last year, has he met the expectations for you of what you thought he could do very early in his

NHL career? Yeah, I would say so. I think there's another level there to go to. I think that, you know, we watched the game last night compared to the Calgary game. Like the overtime pass that he made to Matheson two nights ago, he attracts attention already as a young skilled guy, and yes, it's off a line change, but he sees the full width of the ice and he makes plays. He's super enthusiastic.

He's a, he's a Rick Rat, but there's going to be some growing things there still off the puck and defensively and um but guys you can't teach what he does offensively and you can't teach that personality he's he's born to be a Montreal Canadian when they get good at really good they're already good when they get really good and he's uh he's an electric talent he's in left he's he's not the Alexei Kovale when he was floating around in Montreal making skill plays till the end of time and then you know off the puck never having any detail this kid's going to figure it all out and he's going to be he's going to be a 10 million dollar player before we know it there we say you mentioned the calgary flames uh seems like they're headed

towards the bottom of the standings here and whether or not this is the year to do it books with with mckenna out there is a top prospect and if anyone's ever going to come close to him uh throughout this season yeah it's uh calgary's send a tough spot voice last year that they're not an easy out as a group and i still don't think that they're an easy out as a group but they just can't score goals and even with hubertoe coming back to the lineup here it really last year looks more i don't think it's an anomaly i think that dust of wolf is capable of playing at the same level that he played last year but he hasn't so far this year and his play last year along with dan bell at r by the way who is off to a good start

in Philly. Those guys masked a lot of the warts, if you will, of the Calgary Flames. And if they're not making all of those timely saves, because even in the Montreal game the other night, you made a ton. If they're not making all of those saves, then they don't score enough goals. And then this is exactly what you get here. This is a result. So they're not hard to check when they're not scoring a lot. They don't, they don't impose that, that type of fear in the opponent. But I'm going to say this, too, the McKenna sweep stakes, and I did story yesterday. Gavin McKenna is definitely the top, top prospect for this draft class, but it's not just his draft. Trust me when I tell you that. Keaton Bearhoff at North Dakota,

the big right shot, six foot four toward a 12 pound defenseman. I spoke to some of my colleagues here. They were at Nodak last week, and they said this is going to be much more of a race than people believe. And then there's a kid in Sweden, this Ivers Stenberg, who was just, Otto Stenberg's brother, by the way, from St. Louis. This kid is electric. And he's playing in the SHL over there. So it's going to be more than just a one-headed monster. So there'll be choices and there'll be flexibility for the teams that are finishing towards the bottom here. Well, that's encouraging if you're a Flames fan,

feel like things are not going to stay on the rails the rest of the way. It's funny how different years the number one pick can impact a franchise in such different ways. You know, looking at some of the ones recently, I'm wondering a little bit about Lafranier and where he's at with the rain. because he's a guy that I know fans get frustrated with and I've always liked him quite a bit. So I'll get a thought on that. But then I also want to get a thought on Celebrini,

who had five points last night and just the impact he's having on the other end of the spectrum for his team. Yeah, so here's the danger with the draft class. Not every draft class is the same. And people just assume, and, you know, fans of the game, I don't blame them. They just assume that guys that our first overalls or, you know, top of the table prospects in their draft cycle

are going to have the same type of impact as the McKinnons and the Sellegrinies. And, you know, dare I say, like, you know, Barkoff went second years ago, guys, when we drafted him. And it's just not a fair comparison. Lafranier, for me, I like him. I don't love him. I always, he leaves me wanting. And 28 tucks two years ago, if I'm not mistaken.

And then 17 last year, the New York Rangers are off to, obviously, an uneven start. New coach, he's trying to impose a, um, He wants them to play a certain way, and I get that. This player here, when he's playing heavy, hard, going to the paint, he's a problem. And he's got a real good puck touch, and he can work off the half wall and do some things. But Borny, he doesn't, on his worst shifts, when he's not potting offense, he doesn't push back enough, okay? And so he's got to learn to push back more. And it's getting past the stage of learn.

He's been in the league for a while. He has to do that. You have to create more of your own space, more of your own opportunities. and there's a lot of nights that I feel like he can do more of that. As far as... Yeah, just as far as Celebrini and Smith, I mean, was last night,

I know it's the Rangers and God, they're struggling, but a bit of a coming out party for those two guys in particular and how special they they are already are or how special they will be.

Like what they did last night, I don't think players that young have been able to kind of take command of a hockey game since Messier and Gretzky or Messier and Curry that young. I 100% agree with that. Look at the like Celebrini is to me as close to Sidney Crosby when he arrived at Pittsburgh. That's what he is to San Jose for me, Celebrini. And Will Smith isn't far behind. call him the Malkin.

I know they're different than stats or whatever else, but you understand what I'm saying, the Ying to the Yang. You know, the Thornton and, you know, Sal Grini is Thornton-like. Like, that's what he's going to mean to the San Jose Sharks. Guys, like, he's an electric talent. I think he's right in the mix for the Olympic team. He's going to be a name.

He's an energetic player with skill. He competes up and down the sheet. And Will Smith, like, he's going to be, gosh, I wonder, I don't know if he's going to be in the mix for the U.S. team this year, but soon enough, he will be. San Jose's got an embarrassment of riches there. Nisa can't get a sniff. He played, like, it's a sniff, but he's in the three-hole.

You know, this guy can't come back to Major Junior this year and go off for 160 points. He's not going to be any better for that. Yet you can see how he is even two steps behind them already, yet he's an elite talent that's going to get there as well. So San Jose's, they got an embarrassment of riches. there. And that's part of the process. They have to get good sooner than later, though. I will say that. I don't think that that's a marketplace that can take rebuilding too long, even when you can see that the fruits of the labor are on the Verizon. I think that that's a market that they got to start getting good or better

sooner than later as a group. Got to ask you, especially for 650 in Vancouver, the Vancouver Canucks a loss last night to Nashville, a team that obviously is struggling as well. And, you know, just overall. what can we expect through your eyes when it comes to the Vancouver Canucks? I don't know if you guys watched any of that game last night, but oh, my God, it was not good. It was like a high-end American hockey league game for me last night, not a national hockey league game. I hated watching it, but I did. I really was keying in on a kipper because I wanted to see up the middle of the ice.

If this is sustainable without making a move for the Vancouver Canucks, it's not. It's not, they need to, they need help in the middle of the ice. It's terrible what happened to Phil Hedel on the weekend. I'm more worried about his overall health than what he can do for the Vancouver Connects, to be perfectly honest, because this is not good. But from a team building perspective, there's a lot of walls there in Vancouver's lineup. And when you look at, Sylvester comes back in, but he had something going on away from the ice. And you look at when Blugher's out, when he goes out, even with the speed that they do have on the back end, it doesn't matter.

That game was slow, it was disjointed, and I thought that they were going to end this road trip. They had good momentum for the first three games of it, and then it went off, you know, the rails here for the last couple. Now I'm more concerned about the Canucks going home to play back to back, so I'm keeping a close eye on that. Quickly, I know we've got to get going here, but the pressure on Pedersen now, and he's not off to a great start with just the one goal so far, 20 plus minutes last night. is this going to improve is this going to our fans going to continue to sit there and go what do we pay 11 plus million dollars for well

I know you want to go and I probably have a long answer for it but I'll give you my short one and that is it's been a long time since that contract has been signed so you've got to get up to Schneid people pay big dollars to come watch you play and if you're not scoring goals and you're going to have to do a bunch of the other things but here's the bottom line he's paid to

create offense. That's it. He's paid to do that and he's not getting it done. All the talk about off-season conditioning and preparation and all that talk is cheap in pro sports. Sooner or later, you have to make things happen. I'm not ruling it out because I don't want to talk about it all year. I want him to get it done. But if you're going to ask me if I trust it right now, no, I don't trust it yet. Great stuff as always, Bookes. Thanks, pal. Awesome, boys. Enjoy the weekend of baseball. And thanks for You got a number on that, Jay's jersey, or? I was at the Jimenez's giveaway.

Oh, very nice. Very nice. I got to go out on the field for Yankees batting practice. I stood beside Aaron Judge. Yeah. And he made me feel like I was a garden knoll at six feet tall. Like you were an appetizer. That's right.

All right, pal. Thanks for doing this once again. Jason Buchala, everybody. Good stuff. Great stuff. Celebrini, I'm like, I didn't watch, I was watching Penns and, um, and, oh yeah, Florida. Didn't watch that one closely, but I watched the highlights of Cellebrini.

I love that kid. Oh, yeah. He's just awesome. And a Ryan Reeves, Rampi, Hilt. That was a hockey fight. That was a hockey fight. Give Rampi credit, he's gotten better. He still has a balance as a struggle, but.

No, no, no, no, listen, I like Rieves, he got knocked down every fight last. I'm giving Reeves the credit. Oh, for sure. Reeves, the win, no doubt about it. The win and knocked him out of the game. I think Reeves is in the short conversation for like the best fighters ever. Like if you're going to put him up against some of the best guys. This era, for sure, if you want to go and exchange eras to eras. But like you put him in there with those old tough guys.

No, no. He's too controlled. He's done a hell of a job. And I'll give him kudos again last night. He's at the end of his career. He's hanging on. another team, but to go in there and fight that guy and beat him and knock him out of the game.

Sick. You never saw a shift after that. Totally full credit. Right? Full credit. And now, got to be concussed. Rampy. Oh, yeah. Oh, he took two or three shots. And when you don't play after that, it means you got your bell rung.

Yeah, he's in tough. But, you know, like I said, he's been really working on this fighting thing. He's a big man. Who do you think the best fighter ever is? Ever? Yeah. It's hard not to lean on Probey. Bob Probert came to mind.

You know? And Ty. Yeah. See, we're talking about guys that, like, loved it. Yeah. Correct. Right? Loved it.

Rob Ray, to me, for 20-plus years, loved it, too. If you're going to do it that long, you've got to love it. Oh, my, I, I ran out of gas, like after 500 games. I think Rob, you know. We went on our show and said he misses it. He wishes you could still do it. Like, I know.

There are times I wish I could punch somebody again. Well, sure. I like, that's a fantasy for sure. Sammy, you're too far away. I can't reach you from here. But it's funny because I will say, like, you know, Clark Gillies gets recognized as one of the tough guys. Yes.

But he. There's six of them on your team, your dad's team. He didn't, you know. Come on, man. He didn't want to, like, the way that some of these guys loved the fight aspect. He liked it. He had no problem with that he wouldn't shy from it.

Especially when you win or look good. Yeah. That's when you really love it. Yeah. I will say, if you asked him right now, if he loved it, he'd say yes. But I think it wasn't like he was looking for it. Some of these guys were just like we're dying to do it.

We should go. Okay, let's take a quick break. When we return, plenty more to get into, including the Pittsburgh Penguins who won again. unintentionally the greatest team all time. Whoops, we built a wagon. Plus in our second hour,

we'll welcome in Craig Simpson as we transition to a leaf edition in our next hour. Plenty more still, Unreal Kipper and Bourne. Hey, it's Blake Murphy. And I'm Matt Bonner.

Join us weekday mornings at 11 as we break down all things Toronto Raptors. It's the Raptor show on Sportsnet 590 The Fan and wherever you get your podcasts. A reminder of this hour of Real Kipper and Bourne brought to you by Bette Ciparious, Justin Boren, the Sammy McKee, who is getting ready. Don't peek too early tonight.

No. Okay? No, I'm... Pace yourself. I'm going to be a good boy. Like, you know, I... What time will you get to the ball game? I think I'll probably head down there for seven.

Get in there now. hour early, see the... 8-0. I think it's just 8 on the dot. 8 first pitch. And I just, you know, see the feel. Maybe you can see the Ferrell Williams concert, potentially, have a cool beer, walk around, get the scene, you know?

We're all in. Were you on Bo going back in? Do we have the lineup? Is he playing in second? There's no, there's no lineup out yet. I think you obviously have to put him in there. You would be insane to not put him in there. He's on the roster.

You've made the decision. Could you just keep him on the bench and then work him in mid-point of the game? I could see them do in that game one, where he doesn't play. Don't start him. That's what I see. I think this will probably do. I would not start him. But the only scary part is that they love to do the defensive replacements in the later

innings. And if you have George Springer in the later inning and it's a close game, you're not going to want to do the defensive replacement as in put a straw in there or whatever. So it's a tough spot. You know, I am going tonight, like I've mentioned you guys. I woke up this morning. I was part of the record low crowd ever.

at rogers center there was under 10,000 people there and roy halliday was pitching for the jays was the day before the season before he left and like i've been to so many games at rogers center and like just waking up today being like you're going to a world series game you said uh what was the podcast you mentioned uh pardon the interruption guys oh bro part of my take they're talking they're singing okay blue jays like this is a worldwide event and i i cannot tell you how blessed i am to go And I'm truly, I can't really, I do not care about our show today. I can't think about anything else.

It is, it is international. Like, this is NHL. Like, I don't want to take anything away from Florida Panthers, but Asia's not involved. You know, it's just, it's not like a major stage, like a major market, like L.A. I'm at Toronto, one of the biggest cities in North America, major market, hubs, people all over the world.

It's easy to get to anywhere in the world to Toronto or L.A. Yeah. And they're coming. Yeah. They're coming. Like, I can only imagine the international credentials that were given out in the last. Working in calls. This is part of the fun thing of your team doing well and going this deep is, you know,

talking about you guys from the L.A. Times attempting to cover the Toronto Blue Jays. And, you know, it's, you're in front of those people. You know, show you, O'Connie leading off. knocked. L.A. gets knocked for what, $250 million payroll? No, they're... $430? Jay's have two... Jays are $2.50, yeah.

L.A. what? I think over four. But this is why you want L.A. in a World Series. Totally. In New York in a World Series and these markets wake up the whole world.

Totally. Now you factor in the... Otani? Come on. And arguably, I say the three best potential opponents they could have. face, is thrilling. You know, like, it's, the whole world's watching tonight. The table's set, man.

Forget about Canada. No, I know. The whole world is watching. It is literally called the world series. So can I say the thing that off there people are saying? They don't always watch the world series. This one's different. What are they saying, Justin?

Just don't get embarrassed. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Just don't get in this spot and get swept. You know why? We had the Leafs finally won a series, right? They can't get into the first round. Can't get into the first round.

The Leafs get out of the first round. They're a real team. now and they got humiliated the second the next round started and it voided everything. I don't want to get this part. Where do you guys go there? Where do you plant that seed? Well, I'm not playing. I'm just saying as a fan, I just want us to

show well. They'll show well. I think they will too. Every time you count them out. Show show. Yeah. I just it's going to be pretty surreal down there tonight so I'm really excited. I'm really thankful. So there you go. Okay. We mentioned Crosby

once again leading the Penguins over the Panthers last night and did we 11 points for Sid? Do we need to cut them some slack here? The Penguins in general? Yes. Here's the thing.

If you have success and you're not trying to, are we applauding what's going on? I mean, I'm shocked. I'll give Dan Mews credit. He's gone into Pittsburgh and this team suddenly looks structured, organized, having success. I, you know, Jari is off to a good start. that's part of reason they're having success.

They sent Ryan Graves down to the miners, so they kind of took, you know, cut their losses on that. The problem is, is like, where is it going? Where is it headed? Right? Like they're just between Crosby, Malkin,

and LaTang still, they're just hanging on. But you know what? This team's not that bad. Well, they have a top six. Okay, what is their bottom six? Raquel Crosby, Rossi. really good.

Mantha Malkin, Brazo has been amazing. Brezzo's got five goals. Novak, Kindle, Hallander, you know, whatever there. So, Hallander was Leifestown. So now you're, you're telling me they're, they can knock on the door of a playoff.

I am saying that. Carlson, Littang, Connor Clifton, like they're not a joke, Parker Wetherspoon, they're not a joke. I would say that the guy that jumped out to me watching, I mean, Sid, obviously, always going to jump out to me. They're pumped about to me. Sid looks unbelievable.

but your boy that you wanted to least trade for at one point. Carlson looks a lot like Eric Carlson right now. Like he... Yeah, I sorted for giveaways today. He's doing awesome things. But like watching that game last night,

I mean, the puck's on his stick half the time. It feels like he snap and he's making quick decisions. Did he grow conscious on defense over the summer? Nah, never would. But he won a Norris with no conscience. He can still do good things without it. You don't get 100 points with a conscience. No.

Not from... in the back end. Yeah. Do her and Achari on the fourth line. And if, and if, remember that. Yeah,

I remember those days. And if, you know, Jari is okay, which has been hard for him to come by. But I got to say, I'm not fully going all in on them being a playoff team, but they look way better than I expect him to.

But this is nightmare mode, Sam, because they're going to go get 89 points and draft 11th. Correct. That's nightmare season. Yeah. Got to trade said quick. Better do it.

Get rid of them. So they just stop being so good. Yeah, but if it's a pretty happy right now. Yeah, that's the thing. It's kind of a chicken in the egg. It's like, well, you can't trade said because he wants to be good and he wants to be there. Yeah. But if you're bad, anyways.

How about some of the, like for one, how soft the Atlantic division looks right now. You know, I was going to do it with some other divisions, but just start with the Atlantic. Like Tampa now won four and two and seven games. Bruins are three and six. Sabers are three and four. No one's happy to leaves. Panthers are below 500. Have a conversation about Tampa Bay and,

correct me if I'm wrong, but they can't put the puck in the net. They cannot put the puck in the net. Let me just sort the whole league. Kutra's been out, I think. A couple of games. Yeah, they're second last in goals for five ahead of the flames. Wow.

How many goals do they score? Flames have 13 goals in eight games. Oh. So, I mean, Dustin Wolf's right. He's doing his job. Yeah. Like 18 goals in seven games for the Tampa Bay Lightning is He's got to come out and say the same thing

I can't score oh man yeah maybe they cancel uh gansel is he off to slow start is that what you're telling me what's he got five points seven points yeah it's no no one's braiden point but so hold on the uh Am I mistaken? John Cooper just signed an extension. This summer he signed an extension. You made some joke about...

Did you catch Bookes in our interview earlier? Throw in the comment about... I don't think that they're going to make a coaching change. Did you catch that on Tampa? You didn't register with me now. Yeah, I heard it. Yeah. Even to joke around like that, it's like, whoa, the great John Cooper,

could you see it? all things come to an end at something like coaches just signed a contract i mean oh didn't shelton keef signed a contract the year before they gunned him like it happens man there's a leaps though i know i'm just saying that like every great coach yeah ever has been fired or left and at some point i would i'm with just in a little bit here i don't think that you you sign a guy in the summer and then bail on him with, and especially with John Cooper at Christmas or March or the following summer. Gensel's a point per game, too.

Yeah, okay. But Gensel, Point, McDonough, Kutrov, Hedman, Sirelli, Bjorkstrand, like, there's. If he was on, if he had, if he was closing out a deal, even if he had next year still on the table, I'm not saying I could, I could sense that it's a time for a change more so than just re-upping. can I recit, like I'm not saying they're going to fire him at American Thanksgiving, but if they have a putrid year this year and they miss the playoffs or something, I could see a mutual at the end of this season.

Like I'm not saying they're going to be like, oh, you're down, we got to fire up the guys by firing John Cooper midseason. That's not what I'm saying. But I think you could see the end being somewhat near there. Even still, the most shocking part of their statistics page is the plus minus, I don't know, think of it what you may. Braden Point is minus 9 and Kutrov is minus 8. Their best player is Pontus Holmberg with plus 3.

Now, I don't mean their best player. I mean, in terms of this very tailored stat based on your usage. However, minus 9, minus 8. Not good. So let's just do a little what if. What if they actually stay? What if they want to unload? Unload what?

By March. I'm asking you. Who? Who? Who? Ooh, like, let's play owl. Who? You know, it's, well, it's got to go to their, uh, like, who could you see them?

If they wanted to make a change and just, Buckpedia. Would you, would you, would you ever think about, like, point Kucherov? Oh my God. What are you making? On a bad year. Cooch is, if they miss the playoffs, would you, would you tempt just to shake it up, the group? The nucleus.

Cooch has one year left after this, which is why he's an interesting name. Point, Gensel, Hegel, and Sorelli are all under contract until we're all dead. And those guys are all playing on my hockey team until they're done their contract. Yeah, absolutely. Hedman going to retire a Tampa Bay Lightning? He's got this year, next year, the one after, the one after. At H. Schmel. Hegel's locked in for a while.

He's young. He scored 90 points last year, by the way. Gensel's just there. He's not going anywhere. But maybe. Cooch. Maybe the nucleus a little bit. Wow.

They're not going to miss. They will not miss the playoffs. You think they're turning it around? I do, yeah. I do. I'm with Kip. However, here's what I'll say. They're on my watch.

All right. One hour closer to first pitch for Sandy. Our thanks to Jason Bucula from Pro Hockey Group and SportsNet. We're back with Leaf Hour edition. Coming up next. Thank you.