Real Kyper & Bourne - Nikita Kucherov's Underappreciation + Auston Matthews in Minnesota?

Episode Date: March 19, 2026

Former NHLer and President of the 'Oates Sports Group', Adam Oates (5:08) joins Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne to chat about his experience as a player during the final stretch of the regular season in preparing for the grueling Stanley Cup Playoffs, whether Auston Matthews can return to a top scoring form following his injury, the call to change the NHL Player Safety department and the increased protection for the stars of the game, team's lacking the ability to create shot opportunities on net, and whether Nikita Kucherov is underappreciated. Then, The Athletic's Michael Russo stops by (28:20) to discuss Gary Bettman's defence for the NHL Playoff format, a heated debate around goaltender interference and headshots, and the potential for a future partnership with Auston Matthews in a Minnesota Wild uniform.  The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, let's get her going. It's the national hour on Real Kipper and Bourne. We are live on Sportsnet. Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver, 960 and Calgary streaming, always on Sportsnet Plus. Spotify, Apple, podcast, and YouTube. Also available. Love the chats. Love the thumbs up.

Let's give one for J.B. and Sammy. And Siena's effort. Oh, man. They just couldn't. We got the March basketball in the circle. It's a weekday sports. going to be hot for the next little while. We've got the masters coming up.

Are you guys in pools? Two. How about you? The last pool I was in was, I don't know, with the last time the Florida Gators won. Okay. Last year? No, no.

It was the previous one. Okay. Before that. Yeah, Billy Donovan and... I think so. And Horford and those guys. Yeah. Joaquin Noah.

Yeah. Back team. What was that? Brewer, I believe. Mid. Like, what had been early. Yeah. Early 2000s.

So who you picking? Florida again. St. John's Red Storm, baby. Maybe I should have picked the Gators again. I can't remember who I think I picked Michigan maybe. Michigan and Yukon in the final potentially, if I remember correctly. I can't really remember, though. This hour of Real Kippron-Born brought to you by Bet365.

Nick Kippreel's, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee in a few minutes. Adam Oates will join us. Always great having Oatsie on. Get a feel for what we can expect in these dozen games or so down the stretch. What did you think of Ottawa last night, fellas? They go back at it tonight, right? Against the Islanders? Yeah, right back.

Yeah, must win. You can't lose two in a row here. Ottawa base gets to go 11 and 2 or something. It's not, they just got to get right back on their horse again tonight. There's just no way avoiding two points here and think you can stay in it. The like, no goal tending for such a huge part of the year, followed immediately by no Sanderson right when you need, you're getting goal-tending is just a terrible one-two punch.

Yeah, I mean, Sanderson, I don't think it's, you know, hyperbole to say he's their best player. I don't think it's hyperbole to say he's the fifth best defenseman in the league. He, losing him, that's a lethal blow to any chances to make the playoffs. When he played 27 minutes a night? Like, he's your go-to guy. But it's a massive. All situations, power play, penalty kill, just like your go-to guy.

So I give him a little bit of sympathy, unfortunately. stinks. Stinks. next year. Well, that's not over. Did you guys catch any Colorado and Dallas last night? Not a real surprise that...

Dallas is... It went to a shootout. Yeah, Dallas just doesn't lose. They caught up. They're in... They've played one more game than the Colorado Avalanche and they now have 96 points and the Colorado Avalanche have 98.

They're right there. Shaky. That was it without ranting in, who's still out. But it's, I mean, I can't believe somebody caught. Colorado. Think about the start to the season or the midway through the season what their record was.

And now they have only a two-point lead on the stars. It's crazy. Didn't we have Nate yesterday, but we didn't play it? That was maybe yesterday. I was probably at the start of the week. Oh, is it? Yeah. I could try to pick it up.

No, it's fine. I don't know if we ever played it, but his point was sometimes winning can mask. Yeah. Issues. So you knew they had some, but also I think they're having trouble finding the right spots for guys like they added they wanted cadry and couldn't get them got nick waugh and then still got codry and now they're kind of like i saw a line the other day where they were both playing wing they're still trying to figure out what to do with these guys yeah how they would have never

gone nick waugh if they knew they're getting yes no right of course not so what the first what you're saying is thank god for call for calgary's ownership that the leaves got their only first round pick from the day. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. Was there another first rounder out there for the leaves? I don't know. I think Nick Waugh would still be a leaf if they're.

Maybe Bobby McMahon. Could have got a first. I think he's got five points in his first three games as a squid. Six? Six, yeah. Scored again last night. Yeah, off to a pretty good start there. A lot of stories out of the GM's meeting, Kip?

Sure, yeah. So. And we'll have Mike Russo on who attended the meetings as well. about 30 minutes. We'll touch base with him as well. It just feels like there's a little bit more heat on Gary Bettman lately. Like if the meetings, there was rumors that Verbeek was on him about the goal interference and how no one really knows what it is.

And the hurricanes were on them about headshots, not being as strictly enforced as they used to be. We're on them and everyone else. Bill Garron's on them, about the playoff format and not liking that. And what's the latest out of Carolina's got some issues with him? Yeah, that was what I said, yeah, about the hedgehards. Yeah, I mean, but see, okay, we'll pick up on this conversation because we have Adam Oates now. It's welcome him in, former NHLer, Hockey Hall of Famer,

president of the Oates Sports Group. Oatsy, how are you, my friend? I'm good, how are you? We're good, we're good. Let me ask you something just in terms of half or a dozen games to go, maybe a few more here. And, you know, especially for a guy like you, over your career who was a number one centerman played anywhere between 18 and 22 minutes

now we're dealing today with a compressed schedule guys coming off like what are these last dozen games are so like on a on a top end player you know like you've been you know what I would say that I would imagine everybody's a little different um I know that for example when I I played for Boston one year. We had a very good team, and they rested a couple of guys down the stretch. I really didn't want to be rested. You know, maybe with five games ago, I could have maybe missed a game, but I was more concerned about getting out of my rhythm than anything, right?

And clearly, you don't want someone hurt down the stretch. You want guys going into the playoffs feeling good about themselves. And I would say that it's probably one of those subjects that I don't think anybody's ever really gotten it totally right, but we're definitely trying about it all the time. So you wanted to get your take on something we debate a lot in our Maple Leafs hour. Austin Matthews and his direction going forward, you know, physically this year, his speed bursts are not what they've used to be. He doesn't shoot it as hard as he did at his peak.

He's had some injuries. Do you think this is a guy who has just undergone wear and tear and is not going to be the player he once was? Or do you think he can get back to a higher level than he showed this past season? Well, you're definitely showing me that you're turning into the analytics guy. Well, sure. Yeah, it's part of what I do. But I have my own analytics. I don't go by there. Everybody else is analytics.

I would say, honestly, if you look at the team, obviously, they haven't had a great year. Does that affect him? Of course. Of course. So I don't put much stock into that. I would say if the power play is going good and he gets more one-time is the shot better? Yeah, probably.

We get some more quality shots. Probably does everybody's confidence get affected when we're losing? Yes. So I think there's a lot of factors that go into kind of all the analytics, actually. So, I mean, one of the best dynamic duels in the history of the game, you and Brett Hall. So you've been in scenarios, whether it was in Boston, had maybe a guy like Cam Neely or whatnot. But what would have been?

like for Matthews to go from a guy who played so many seasons with a Mitch Marner only to wake up one day and have him gone. I mean, can you put us in your shoes with you being a top player like Austin and then waking up one day and not seeing Holly? It's hard. It's really hard. I think when you make these decisions, obviously the number one thing, and this is what I look for all the time in my videos with guys,

you're looking for chemistry, right? At the end of the day, we're trying to find a group that is cohesive. And obviously, when you have special players, you got one guy that passes it more than shoots it. One guy shoots it more than passes it. That's obviously sort of like a marriage. You want to try and find that marriage. And obviously, when something happens and we have to go in a different direction,

does that affect the guys? Yes. But is he a superstar player? Yeah. Yeah. So I expect him to still be a superstar sort of with anybody. but clearly the numbers might be skewed a little for sure. Yeah.

Things there have been interesting to watch. I guess when you're looking around the league and you see these young kids that are so exceptional, so young, like I'm talking about Celebrini and Schaefer in particular and what they have done. Does it feel like that's more possible in maybe a less violent league than when you played? Like with these guys, were there examples of guys being able to do this sort of thing when you guys were playing? or what makes this possible?

I mean, a guy like Steve Eisenman came in in the league, it was like that, right? Do I think it's possible? Yeah, is the game maybe suited a little bit more for them? Yes, it's not as violent. That's a fact. Right? So good for them. You know, they get to walk, come and do it.

But we still have a lot of contact in our game. We have a lot of guys that can hit. I think you're talking about two really, really fantastic hockey players and have been given sort of the leash. and have done a fantastic job with it. O, certainly a lot has been made out of most recently Austin Matthews going down and star players. Are they being protected enough?

This has been going on an ongoing conversation or topic of debate over decades now. But like, where's the shift in your eyes? And are we underestimating what it, what it feels like to be a superstar today in this league? You know, obviously I thought that was going to be the question we were going to talk about today. So I've been thinking about it all day. Nice.

And as an outsider, I've got to be very careful because we trust the player safety. And it's a hard subject. It's a really hard subject. You just said it. Decades. You just said it. Right? Decades.

You played with guys that lived on an edge. I played with a lot of guys. I played with Greg Barubi for seven years. and he had 30 fights a year you know do I think it was a dirty hit it doesn't really matter what I think because the league suspended them

do we like repeat offenders no we don't or have you said it decades are we trying to figure this out yeah it's not an easy subject it's not because what happens if the wrong guy gets

clipped twice right like and obviously we just lost a superstar so I don't want want to lose a superstar. No one does. It's a really, really, really hard subject. And obviously, you trust the powers of B that they're trying to figure it out at all times, which we've always trusted that, right? I mean, I play with, I play with Craig Barubi. I play with Scott Stevens. I play with Rick Tockett. I play with Joey Kosher. I played with Bob

Robert. Did they, right? Did they help you? Did they, were they enough of an influence that you felt that you would have been heard a lot more without them? I would say that we would have been picked on more without them. And when I had, when I played on a really tough team, did I notice it? When I played on a team that didn't have as much toughness, yes, did I notice that too? And I honestly, I can remember Hully scoring a goal. The year he got 86. One 90 he scored a goal and we, we sallyed and then we come out.

He goes, that's enough. I go, yes. And because of this subject. And it's been an ongoing thing. and the league has tried to go in the right direction, and I support them trying to go in the right direction. I really truly do. Do I think it's a really, really hard subject?

Yes. You play with Mark Messia. You play with Mark Messia, right? And needed every night to just push the envelope, right? Yeah, and every once in a while, he ripped it open. Yeah, a very hard subject, man. Yeah. Really hard.

But I also, I don't want to lose it. the superstar. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We see teams like, I'll use Schaefer as an example again. When he got hit early in the season, people went at him pretty good and the islanders swarmed whoever it was that did it. You know, what is it

like as someone whose game is maybe not being physically imposing? You know, it wasn't why you were on the team necessarily. When that's happening around you, should there be an obligation for everyone? Easton Cowan fought a guy. Morgan Riley fought a guy. Should those guys have

any say in this sort of enforcement of protecting our guys? Another really hard subject. You know what? When I lived in that era and you see scrums where it's really close. So if a guy hit a guy right beside me, could I jump on his back? Yes.

Could I take Kippa out to center eyes? No, I can't. No, I can't. He might break my jaw. It doesn't mean I'm, I'm a coward. No, no. But if he was close to the pile, could I jump on him?

Yes, we'd be in the pile. Grab an arm. All right. Grab an arm, something. Yeah, I would grab an arm, no question. Like, if you're close, getting singled out on a one-on-one, that's way harder than people understand if you're not qualified, right? And it's, like I said, guys, I've been thinking about it all day, man,

or for a couple of days. These are tough subjects, no question. They are. for those of you just tuning in we have Adam Oates former NHLer hockey hall of famer president of Oates sports group so I know OTSA we've had a couple of conversations in the past about this and you know we're supposed to be in the

era where we cleaned up all the clutching and grabbing and there's more room for the stars that we just spoke moments ago but so so explain to me why sometimes I could be halfway through a game and see a team with five shots on goal. What is it? Is it the coaching? Is it the guys not being as creative as they should be with the room that they have? What is happening here on some nights?

You know, my biggest frustration with the game is the spread out offense. Right? You know, and I'll give you a good example. I think we talked about last time. Like when you think of overtime, right? There's only six guys on the ice, right? and there's three guys circling around three guys, and they can't figure out a way to get in there.

So they end up leaving the zone. Sometimes they pass it back to the goalie because they don't want to get caught tired and they don't want to give up possession, but they can't get a shot. They can't generate a shot with only three guys. And now we're kind of doing it with five guys. So for me, as I watch the game,

we're on the perimeter too much. And we don't shoot the puck. And then because we don't shoot the puck, we don't get to make the other team have to defend their goalie quite right. Then we don't get rebounds. We don't get second chances, third chances. And it turns into a different type of analytics, quick, because I see it every night, ozone time.

So what? So what? There's five shots. There's no power of place. So you make a really interesting point because if I shot the puck and it got blocked and turned over, I never had a coach come up to me after the game and go, six times. You know what I mean?

Like you just say, whatever it is. But these guys now, they know exactly all their analytics. And, you know, whether it's the right play or not to shoot the puck

or hold on to it, are some of these guys playing for their analytics? Forget the goals and points. Are they playing for their analytics? I don't think it's that. But I do think that obviously we get caught up in

well that team's doing it so we better do it and we don't necessarily think it through quite right where you know like if we're in the ozone i i try and tell my guys you know pass a puck to the d you got to pass a puck to the d okay so hey d can you shoot it then shoot it shoot it why well it's going to go in or there's going to be a rebound and that's going to make the defending team turn and face their goalie that makes them in a disadvantage so we so if we're in the right spots, we're going to be in better positions for rebounds, secondary chances, third chances, where if we just keep skating around, you let the defending team realign themselves and the goalies at the top of the crease, right? When you shoot a puck, the goalie's deep in his net.

Right? So we need to be able to create multiple chances and skating around doesn't do it. It doesn't. And overtime proves it. That's my, that's my frustration. I don't like that. I'm with you 100%. The question then, I want to get your thoughts on goalie interference and the way it's called now. If you have an opinion on should we be doing things differently? It came up at the GM meetings this week and there's some dissension. Some of the GMs aren't happy. And Betman obviously is defending the league in their stance. What, you know, I guess I don't find that subject that complicated.

I really don't. I can tell whether a guy should have put on the brakes or not. I can tell whether a guy got hit into the goalie or not. Do I think the player has the responsibility to stop? Yes? I do. I don't find it that complicated. I don't.

League should hire you. I'm with you. Get Oatsy in there. You know what? Kippur, you know where the paint is? You do. Yeah. You do.

Did that guy push you in the paint? Yes. Did you let put you in the paint? Oh, come on. When you played enough hockey, you kind of know that stuff. Listen, what's playoff hockey all about? taking the eyes away from the goalie and rattling them and throwing them off and making them nervous. I mean, it's all right there.

You know, as a skilled coach, do we appreciate Kucherov in Tampa Bay enough? The guys like you, Otsi, with the vision. You know what? Just last night, he gets five, right? In a league that's low scoring. Like last night, I think there was five teams that had two or less. but he gets five. If you look at the box score,

six defensemen on his team, zeros. Now one defenseman got a point last night. Wow. Seven forwards didn't get a point last night. And he got five. That's impossible, man. He's now four back of the league lead. That's impossible.

Like when you think about it, a defenseman didn't get a secondary assist from like a breakout. And he got a two on one. Like he's spectacular, man. Like I watch him, and I know I've talked about him before. He blows me away with his intelligence. He really does. And he really truly absorbs the game and wants it and understands it.

And once more, he's fantastic. Points for game, he's ahead of McDavid and McKinnon. But his last 40 or 45 games, he's averaged over two points a game. And he dictates. I know. It's crazy. Yeah. It's crazy.

It's crazy. Seriously. How do you get? five, how do you get five whenever he else got zero? Good point. I don't know how. Yeah. What, you stole it?

You stole it five times? You know what it looks like? I watched Scotty Gomez playing the ECHL during a lockout and he would stand up straight with the puck and point to guys and tell him where to go and then it would just be tick, tick, like he just, it was so easy for him. It was a joke. That's Kutrov in the NHL. It's gross.

You know what? You know what's also really helped is they had an injury. Victor Hedman got hurt and they put radish on the point. And that's been a huge blessing for the team and coach. Because that right-handed weapon is a weapon. And, you know, they had a lefty there for 10 years. Now they got a right-y there. That's mattered.

At least, you know, for me, I got to ask you this question because you coached Ovechkin. I think you know him well enough or know him in terms of maybe what's going through his mind right now. He did make a comment I think last week or a week and a half ago about maybe the body

he's not responding as much as he liked it. Where do you get a sense of where OV's going here in the next 10 or 12 games? I have not asked him for a few months, right? Because obviously

and I heard that comment too and I heard another one prior to that. But then all of a sudden he's got 25 now, right? You know, it's like, and I think he's going through that. If hockey's fun, I like hockey. If hockey's not that fun, I'm not really liking hockey that much. And we'll see where it ends up. And hopefully the team makes a run.

And you know what? I don't want to see him go. I don't. You can score 25 goals in this league. I don't want you to go. Yeah, no, he's been a lot of fun to watch over the years. And obviously not many people can do it. like he did it.

You know, the way that he played physically, when you, when you had him, did you want him to dial it back at all and just be a goal score? Or did you love that he was able to be an absolute barrel of a player out there too? No, I loved it. I did because he, his physicality was also part of his game for a lot of, a lot of his career. You know, he came in the league. His speed was part of it.

Then he turned more physical. And now there's a little bit of kind of like, it's geared back a little. but I watched him dinner a couple nights ago and he had like five hits. Yeah. There's still moments that his physicality is a weapon for him. Awesome stuff.

Otee, really appreciate your time. It's great seeing you. Oh, you too, bud. Always, guys. Thanks. Appreciate it, Oates. Hall of Famer, Adam Oates. He sees.

Okay, first of all. He's right about Kutraal. How do you get five points? No, no, no, no. How do you know that there were defense men involved in the points or seven forwards didn't have a point. Right. Just for O, for Adam to like think like that.

Think like that. Yeah. And then come on our show and then us are like our jaws are dropping. Is that possible? And it's like that's what I love about Oats. He sees the game so differently. God, Kutraultz. So good, boys.

Yeah. One of the best in the history. I think he's my heart trophy front runner right now. I just. So did you do the. the pre uh polls that's

preseason or whatever I had him Art Ross and I think I had a member of EP Oh really? I did yeah I see I don't I haven't mentally had him in the McDavid McKinnon

class I had to me it's like this year I did for sure right below that but no You've always loved them though Oh so He loved him ever since he disgraced the All-Star game

That's when you loved him No my son to that We watched him live It was unbelievable He's he's in that that suit kind of wow yeah very different players but i love i like that he's a grump i like grumpy players big you know i always enjoyed watching ryan kessler he's just he's a gamer

too right yeah who's the who's the other grump in the league oh dry saddle oh great grumpy player i mean mc david's grumpy too all the grades are grumpy i love a good grumpy grades yeah like look at mckin all he does is pout he just thinks he's grumpy like you have to be grumpy he is grumpy Really good balance. You just can't be Steve Lawrence every day. Every day can't be a great day. Yeah. Game time?

Game time. It's game time. Presented by Bet365. An official partner of the NHL must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. How many games tonight? 11 games on tap tonight, boys.

And also tons of March Madness stuff on here. Just putting up the NHL lines. Huge game tonight. for the Detroit Red Wings. Detroit Red Wings, holding on for dear life, don't have their top two centers in Kopp and Larkin. They are hosting the Montreal Canadians who they're right there with in the Atlantic Division.

They are minus 105 favorites in that game, minus 115 and the other side of the money line for the Montreal Canadians. Gotta tell you it, Red Wings need a win. Shout out my boy Keegan, diehard Red Wings fan. He's just texting me every day about the panic that he's going through. They need a win. Yeah.

They can't crash out again in March. They've done this how many years in a row it feels like. Buddy, they got Montreal, Boston, Ottawa, Buffalo. Atlantic, Atlantic. Atlantic. It's their season. Other games on tap tonight, what would have been a really great game on paper

when they put the schedule out, but maybe less great now. Florida in Edmonton to take on the Oilers in a rematch of the Stanley Cup final from the last two years. Plus 1.35 on the money line for the Florida Panthers who are fully on tank mode. Minus 160 for the Edmonton Oilers in that one. I just want to The March Madness thing is crazy

So 16 seed Sienna Push Duke and you know They end up falling short But because Bet 365 does that early payout Like 10 points or whatever Yeah yeah If you bet Sienna you got paid out You want

As the 16 seeds so people If you bet long shots today You made a couple of bucks Crazy anyways That was game time Because they're at Bet 365 An official partner of the NHL Must be a team plus

And Tara only Please play responsibly Just looking at The schedule again on tonight, sneaky, important game for Seattle as well. Like Ottawa, they can't lose two in a row now, and they've got Nashville tonight. Well, I got to tell you, where's my tank sheet?

Are the Cracken fans listening? Okay, if you are listening, go do something else for a sec. Okay, can they go away? You get the sharks in there, give me Macklin-Cellipini and the boys. Can you get Artemmy Panarin and Kopitars last day? We need the Kings in there because then the least. get a second round pick. You know, like,

you don't want to see McMahon in the playoffs? I've seen McMahon in the playoffs. Thank you very much. I know how that movie is. I hope you're still plugging your ear in Seattle fans because he was a ghost last year here. Holy smokes. Poor Bobby.

Poor Bobby. Great guy. All right, let's go and then we'll get the Russo. All right. Take a quick break. Mike Russo, NHL writer for the Athletic, covers the Minnesota Wild. He also covered the GM meetings.

We'll get into that. Mm-hmm. and what might be in store for the wild moving forward. That all when we return to Real Kippur and Born. Hey, it's Aylish Forer Far. And I'm Justin Cuthbert. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night.

It's the fan, 3 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590, the fan, and wherever you get your podcast. As a reminder, this hour of Real Kipperman Bourne brought to by Bed 365. Nickyaprials, Justin Bourne. Sammy McKee. What do you got for us, Sammy? Nothing. Do you want me to have something?

We have our next guest? Sometimes you're just... Oh, we got Rousseau. Oh, we got Mike Rousseau. Yeah, perfect. Okay, let's welcome him in, NHL writer for the athletic. Covering the GM meetings.

Mike, how are you? I'm doing well, Kipper. How are you? We're good. We're good. So a lot has been made out of Eric Toliske. Tulski and Gary Bettman over NHL Rule 48. And my only question to you is you were there,

you got a good feel of what came out of there. Are we going to be looking at a pay-per-view one day soon between Eric and Gary? I don't know about that. I wish I was in there. That would have been fun to see in person. You know, I don't think it was as big as, you know, it wasn't this fiery conversation.

I mean, you guys know, Eric, I can't imagine that he's sitting there turning on the mic and screaming, you know, bloody murder. But I think that, you know, they started talking about Rule 48, and clearly the hurricanes have not been happy about it, and they feel the standard has been slipping. And I think what Eric was just saying is it almost feels like, you know, when you say unavoidable head contact that you're basically justifying that there's head contact and where the league, you know, and the way the rule is written, they're just going to be. be times where there's just no way of avoiding it. And there have been situations both in Carolina and League Lide where I think people have not been exactly happy. But, you know, Kipper, you know, I've been around a long time. I mean, I remember when head shots were an epidemic in the NHL. I think the league has done a really good job of pretty much getting rid of this. And so whenever you're, you know, anytime there is some sort of head contact, it becomes a huge

story because we don't see it nearly as often as we used to be. So I think Eric was just trying to you know, stand up for his team, stand up for the players. And clearly Gary shut it down pretty quickly and insinuated to him that he knew where this was coming from, which, you know, was Tom Dunden. But I don't think it was like, you know, Eric's a very measured person. And I think that he just had a point to make and made it. And they moved on. I think what did get contentious in that room was the belief that that goalie interference standard has slipped.

Yeah, I also don't understand how the point. coming from an owner would somehow devalue it. It's like, yeah, the owner is upset about it. That actually gives it more weight to me. The GM thing with Rubik talking about goaltender interference, it felt to me like in reading a lot of the stories that Gary Bettman was swatting back, a lot of pushes. I know from the outside, a lot of us talking about the Minnesota Wild there,

having to draw the Dallas stars or Colorado Avalanche in the playoff format. Seems like a little bit more frustration that Gary had to stand up for the league's direction. Yep. I think that's fair. You know, the one thing, the goalie interference to me is bizarre and opens up the can of worms because, you know, last year at the GMs meetings, the league, you know, graciously allowed us in the room to take a look at the video that, that the GMs got to watch on goalie interference. And the one thing that the way I took out of it is that if you go into the crease on your own volition, make contact with the goaltender, it's now on you do. And, you know, here was a case the other,

other day where Stutzl did the exact same thing with Vili Huso, and then the league made a determination in there that, well, Huso was going to be able to make the save anyway, and that really opens up a can of worms because the penalty for being wrong on this is a power play. And if this happens in the playoffs, now video coaches are going to be gun shy on what to do here. So I think that was that was weird, you know, and I'm somebody that, again, has sat in that situation where many, many times. I have a lot of respect for the job that they all do. But this one, decision, I think, you know, started to frighten some teams on how to handle this in the future. And the one thing Gary has always been adamant on is that you better make sure you're 100%

correct to challenge to play. But there is one where the video coach and the Anaheim Ducks thought they were 100% correct and it was still wrong. So if we are looking at once again the most, you know, exciting first round, which can be when you potentially put two of the top five seeds in a first round, like, will more noise come out of the team that loses about, you know, can Minnesota be one of those teams or Colorado or Dallas where you go, okay, like enough's enough? I think so. You know, but look, there's one person that is determining this and that is Gary Bettman.

And, you know, if I was Craig Leopold or the owners of the Dallas Stars of Colorado Avalanche, whoever finishes too, I don't think I'd be very happy about this. You know, you play an 82 game schedule to get rewarded for your playoff seating. And what this format allows is this potential of whether it's an aberration or not, that you're going to have a situation where the wildcard teams have an easier path to maybe go and win a Stanley Cup. And to me, there's, you know, by this justification that the league has, you might as well have had Canada and the U.S. and the quarterfinals at the Olympics. It makes, this makes no sense whatsoever. You know, pretty much the schedule for all teams are balanced. You play inside your division three or four times and you play across the conference three times. So everybody's playing essentially the same schedule.

And yet at the end of the day, this isn't like the old days where you played inside your division six or eight times. at the end of the day for them to go into this divisional format, it makes no sense. Now, Gary, to me, almost, you know, said the dirty little secret out loud when I was questioning about this at the G&S meetings, and that is that this is about money, that this is more eyeballs on the first round, that the series are competitive. They go longer, and the numbers prove that than the conference finals in the second round in terms of a number of games in there. But I think, you know, the fact is that this is a provincial sport where fans,

want to watch and read about their teams. And that would be the case if the three was playing the six or if the Dallas Stars were playing the Minnesota Wild in the first round. I don't think that there would be less people watching and I don't think the first round would be any less competitive. And now you put these teams in a position where these three teams in the Western Conference

are going to potentially be the three top teams in the NHL and the fact that they have a harder way and a path to the Stanley Cup than the Utah mammoth or the Anaheim ducks or things like that or even the like it just it makes no sense whatsoever and it feels like all the players believe that it feels like fans agree with that it feels like GMs agree with that and the only person that seems not to is Gary Betman and I think that he's convinced the owners that this just makes them essentially more money but I could tell you that if the Minnesota Wilde losing the first round to Dallas stars it certainly won't make the Minnesota Wild more money.

And that, to me, is what Craig Leopold and some of these owners should be griping on. Well, yeah. And it also just cuts the legs out from the league as a serious athletic competition. If you're saying, we want this matchup earlier, even though it's not fair to these teams. So it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. And the other thing, Justin, is like, you know, like next year in the World Cup, you know, so, you know, it's, I don't know if they've publicly said it, but the United States and Canada are going to be in the North America.

pool of the World Cup and those two teams are going to be in Calgary for the round Robin and you know the league is going to try to do everything in its power to make sure that those two teams go to Edmonton for the semi-final. Well, why are they doing that? Make sure they get the gate. Exactly. I mean, you know, that's like, so I don't know. I just don't think that the goal to me to have a Stanley Cup would be, I'm looking at

banners, by the way, in Minnesota that don't exist. So, you know, I just see a Mucco Koeva banner, but that's about it. You know, like, to me, the whole point of having a Stanley Cup is having a tournament where, you know, the best team has the best ability to make it. And I just think to have an 82 game schedule soon to be 84 where you make it more difficult for the top teams potentially in the league. I just think it's difficult. Now, like as Bill Guerin, who has been somebody that has been a little bit outspoken on this topic, He even says, like, be careful what you wish for. Anybody could beat anybody.

But, like, if all of a sudden you go one through one to eight, you're not going to become the NBA where, you know, you're just going to have sweeps in the first round. That's not the way it is. What you will get is the drama of maybe like the L.A. King's years ago, having a chance to win a Stanley Cup. And I just think that there should be some reward for running through your regular season. And right now, clearly in this format,

there are going to be years where that just doesn't happen. And that's happened in 2017. Last year, Dallas and Colorado playing on the first round. It just should not be this way. You're watching and listening to Mike Russo, NHL writer for the athletic. Trade deadline, we heard a lot of big names. Some didn't move. Just your feeling coming out of the GM meetings,

were you able to talk to a few, whether you want to mention or not, about what happened at the trade deadline and how much could be a carryover to the drafter, throughout the summer, Mike? Yeah, you know, I think that it's very, I think the retention issue is a big thing. I think LTI created some issues. I just think it became more complicated. It's obviously a thinner pool.

I think that, like, you know, the St. Louis Blues clearly shopped around Robert Thomas, even though they maybe didn't go to him for a trade. And I think what they're doing is setting the table for a potential move this summer. You know, here in Minnesota, I could tell you for a fact that if you don't know Bill Garron too well if you don't think that he tried to make a big swing, especially on the heels of making the Quinn Hughes trade. So I think that, you know, there is no doubt this summer that he's going to try to make another big move. The question is, does he have the assets anymore to do that? Scott Wheeler at the athletic did or did the, the, the, the, uh, is doing the athletics prospect

pool. And in one year, the, the Minnesota wild dropped from two to 23 in our pool. And one reason is because he has traded, uh, the wild have traded a lot of picks and prospects in the last couple years. seen the Quinn Hughes trade and the Eurocheck trade, trading away Marathus Houdina. So I don't even know if the wild they're going to be able to really make some big type trades this this offseason, but clearly Bill Guerin is going to swing. You know, he tried at the deadline clearly to get some sort of upgrade up the middle, wasn't able to do that. So he worked around the edges. But talking to GMs down in Florida, it is very clear that there was a lot of table setting from a lot of teams for potential moves

this summer. And as our Pierre Lebrun has reported, you know, there there's really a potential for fireworks this off season, whether it's a Robert Thomas, whether it's even a Brady Kachuk, whether it's an Austin Matthews or a Maddie Knives. I mean, clearly there's going to have to be some decisions made in Toronto on how to, you know,

get this team on track here. And that could be breaking into the core even further than Mitch Marner. Yeah, yeah, yesterday on the show, we actually accused you of tampering. Yeah, no, I've heard that. I've heard that I've heard from here, but I've had a lot of fans accusing me at tampering.

I don't know sports. I appreciate you saying we. It was me. It was good. They were accused you of tampering. The pitcher selected for the story was Austin Matthews. I think it is, by the way, we are very aware of this situation. And I think it's fair to ask.

Are you hearing noise about Matthews, Minnesota? Well, I mean, I wouldn't say that I'm hearing noise, but I know Bill Guerin really well. And there's no doubt that he would be in on that if Austin ever went to market. Again, I just don't know if the wild would have the assets to get that done because I think any GM is going to look at the Quinn Hughes trade as sort of of a template in a trade like that. And The Wilde could not do another, you know,

Liam Ogren, Z. Boyam, Marco Rossi, and a first, they just don't have those assets anymore. And I think if Austin Matthews suddenly became on the trademark, I think there would be a lot of teams in it. But look, the Wilde have been trying for 25, 26 years to get a number one center that haven't been able to. We know what Bill Guerin thinks of Austin. So I think he'd just be, if he, let's go this way.

If he suddenly was on the trade block, the wild would be on that. If Robert Thomas was suddenly on the trade block, the wild would be on that. If Brady Cichuk, who's not a center, was suddenly on the trade block, you know, Billy would be on that. They want to make one more big move.

They clearly tried it at the deadline. It didn't work. You know, Vincent Trochecks, obviously not of the ilk of that, but they tried to make that work. But, you know, I'm not trying to tamper for Bill Garon. Whether it's Austin or even Trochick, who will, his name will come, come up again in the off season.

Like, do they have, can they even nibble around the edges? Or do they just spend too much on Quinn Hughes to go back to back? Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. And, you know, like, that's why I didn't love the Hussein-up trade. Because at least, you know, then it would be Hughes-Zantinop or Ogrin in the, Quinn-Hugh's deal. And at least you'd have one of them this off-season to maybe move. So, you know, now they put themselves in a position where they're going to have to

probably offer around Volstadt, Urov. Obviously, they have Charlie Stramel, some other prospects as well, but I don't know if they have. Like, I have just a hard, like if maybe Trocheck, they would have a chance for, but I just have trouble buying that if Austin Matthews went to market, that the Wild would be able to, you know, less often said, I'm only going to Minnesota, which, you know, I know Toronto fans don't want to hear. You know, I just don't see how the Wilde have those assets. But, you know, look, I mean, Bill Guerin is motivated the summer to do something significant. clearly he set the table on some things and we'll see if it happens.

But I do have my doubts on just the number of prospects, not their desire, but just the prospects and the picks and the trade assets that they have right now to make those type of big moves. You know, I have no doubt they went hard after Robert Thomas. I know they went hard after Vincent Trocheck, and so we'll see what they do this off season. Mike, really appreciate your time.

And thanks for sharing some of that insight from the general manager meetings. Yep, anytime. and just don't get me a million dollar fine, please. Thanks, Rousseau. Mike Rousseau, NHL writer for the athletic. Yeah, listen, every general manager wants to look like the guy that's in on things and busy and all of that. But Matthews is going to bring you home three, if not four quality, grade A pieces. I don't think many has it

or else they would have gone and shored up their center ice right now because you're in this Quinn Hughes window. I think they, I think they missed an opportunity at center ice. I don't know how they're going to go to a conference final. You don't, eh? Many? I mean, you've got to be Dallas and Colorado, bud. Yeah.

Right? I do wonder what happened there. Erickson Eck. Yeah, Garen talked after the deadline was like, you know, he's my buddy from the Olympics. I thought his price would come down at the end for Trocheck and it just never did. I don't doubt that Bill Garon is aggressive

and willing to do big things, as we saw with the Quinn Hughes thing. So the prices must have been very high. There's just a price where you're stupid to pay it. You set dumb prices and say, who wants to pay it? Not always smart to pay it. Can the leaves get boldy,

back? No chance. No chance. But that's, to me, that's... Now we're talking. Like, if that's, if you're doing that kind of thing. Yeah, but that's just a player for player. I mean, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm just trying to figure out ways. You're out of first rounders. Least fans, plug your ears. Faber? They wouldn't do it one for one. I, I'm not disagreeing with you. Faber? Nah, let me do it. Now we're talking. But they wouldn't do that either. No way. So you guys were talking a little bit about with, about, about, about, you guys are Gary there with Russo.

I gotta tell you, I don't know if it's just, he's been in charge for a long time, and it's just, it's always the same tone. I don't know, I'm kind of sick of the act. No, I think it's, it's good to have someone who is firm like Gary. I don't know, is it, like, for example, the NBA has all these issues. Like, with the tanking, with all, and they're just, Adam Silver is just like rules. We're doing rules. We're doing rules. We're figuring things out.

We're willing to change. And it's just, your whole thing. fan base is screaming about the playoffs. The playoffs is an obvious one. But he's just like, it's perfect. I love it. It's just like, can you just give a little bit? First of all, I'm not surprised on any of this coming out of a general manager's meeting

that it's been a long season, compressed schedule. People are just missed? No, it's just everyone's tired. Everybody's short. And you want to go and have a general manager's meeting when these guys have just been through a trade deadline. They're all coming in without a clear open mind. They all come in with their own agenda.

And I'll guarantee you that the exchange between Tulski and Gary stems from an incident that happened three or four weeks ago when Tom Wilson ate Stankhoven behind the net where there was no penalty. There's one on Chatfield they're mad about. They are pissed and they come in loaded. They don't care about anything else about their own personal feel and agenda. And it's not, it doesn't help it doesn't set up a healthy environment to look at big picture stuff. Don't have the meeting a week after the trade deadline with 14 games to go. It's just pissed off.

It's just, it's no good. Coming in hot. Everybody's tired. The problem is these are really legitimate. Points to race. July. Yeah. Is a good time.

Totally. Okay. Get off your... The dock? Get off the dock. And go meet. And you don't even have to meet. Do it on a Zoom call.

Oh, you got to meet. No. No, no. They've already canceled a meeting. They used to have in September a coach's GM meeting. Wiped out. Zoom it, boys. Could have been an email.

Okay. Those guys, though, they got no poll. They can't change the state of the game. whatever the case is that this past week jam meetings not good time. Oh, go ahead. The Betman standing stuff to me, the playoff format, it's a lack of respect for the whole product that you don't think that your seven seed could give your two seed to run.

Like I'm sorry, every single year an eight seed wins around. Every single year now. Giving a point in three on three and five minutes is disrespecting your 60 minutes. Yeah, yeah. I get their case that fans won a conclusion after paying their hundreds of dollars for being there. Yeah. Rocks, paper, scissors. I see it more than I see this.

Okay. But I get your point. You want five on five for five and then a tie. That what you want? I just, to me, it's so not our game. That's all. Well, then all games should be worth three points. You win in regulation.

You should get your three points there. Yeah. Fresh coat of paint. I'm all for that. But that's not going to change either. Because Gary, every time you ask him about anything, he's pissed off at you that you'd have any... The audacity to try to improve the league.

Why would you try to change the perfect league that there's nothing wrong with? And same with Peros. We're perfect. Nothing's wrong. There's things that are... It's a sick league, but there's things that are wrong. I deal two hours a day with audacity coming from you.

Listen, you've got to deal with me. They should change the league. But yeah, those are I like the point about maybe doing that in the summertime. Or September. Or September, yeah, sure, just before the season works too. This guy's got to get to the dock. Next year, when there's 84 games,

you'll have played every team the same amount of times. I do worry about, like, it's just too much. Oh, yeah. It's just too much. Oh, it's way too much. I think we are approaching guys are going to need load management. Like you just can't keep upping the total of games and expect this. Leon Drysidal, that may be such a blessing in disguise that that guy got, gets a little time off now.

Healthy as a horse for playoffs. Our thanks moments ago to Mike Russo, NHL writer with the athletic, Adam Oates at the top of the hour in our very own Luke Fox. All right, boys, tomorrow, off the rails. We got Dougie boy. I got attached. Find them. I'll find. All right.