Real Kyper & Bourne - Off-the-Rails Good Friday

Episode Date: April 7, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee with last night's Leafs' overtime loss against the Bruins, how much the game meant, John Tavares and William Nylander continuing to struggle and Ilya Samsonov further securing his starting role. Doug MacLean stops by for his weekly visit (41:06) to chat about loading up lines vs. spreading out talent, how the Leafs should orient their top six, if Matthew Knies can crack the playoff roster and sheds some insight on his new book 'Draft Day' coming soon. Afterward, Blue Jackets' coaching consultant Ken Hitchcock discusses balancing injuries, rest, rust and egos down the stretch, the importance of the third line and the coaching styles that win games in the playoffs (1:07:24). Later, in honour of the Masters this weekend, Stanley Cup winner Stephane Matteau shares the story of when he played a round at Augusta National (1:22:45). The guys close with listener questions.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Live in color. Happy Easter. Hope everybody's set up for a safe weekend. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Derek Brandale, David Siss. Boomba. See, he waits for it, eh? Yeah.

He's like, just Siss doesn't sound right anymore. If I just said Dave Siss, it'd be like, and? And where's the rest of it? Sammy McKee also on board. And for the second day in a row, we're going to have to say, Sammy, squirrel, squirrel, squirrel, to get them off the Masters. Yeah. You know, we're not too much different than that.

We're going to do our best. We're going to do our best. The golf is interesting, though. Do you have any bets or anything on it? No. No. I passed on all of it this year. I just said I was just going to enjoy it.

And I got to be honest with you. Not thrilled Brooks Koepka is running away with this thing right now. No. No, I mean, a week and a half ago, I wanted to punch him in the nose. I know. Yeah, fair enough. I mean. We're the, like, the worst you kind of go to a, you treat Ekblad so bad at a hockey game,

the golf gods want to reward you? Is that the way life works? I love the idea, though. Like, golf, people complain about, you know, a bunch of rich white guys from the South going out there or whatever. Like, at least this guy's something. He's got personality. Even if it's a bad one, he's got one. There's a part of me, it pains me to agree with you.

Like, there's a lot of... Did you watch the full thing, Doc, and see his... Yeah, I did. Yeah. I did. There's a lot of people in every industry where you can just go, that guy's a phony. Yeah. And at least with Koepka, you don't get that at all. No. What you see is what you get. He's an authentic a-ony. And at least with Kepka, you don't get that at all.

What you see is what you get. He's an authentic a-hole. He's an authentic dick. Yeah. Right? Yeah, he owns it. And he's not pretending to be anything. He's not. That is kind of refreshing.

It is, you know. I don't have to root for his general success, but I will say as someone who has 10 bucks on him at 50 to 1, I'm not hating it. Oh, you did, eh? Yeah, I sprinkled tenner on him. You let him treat Aaron Eckblad like

that and you still bet on him to win. You know what I do when I bet sometimes? Like, I'll bet against the thing I want to happen least, so if it happens, I get paid out. By know what I do when I bet sometimes? I'll bet against the thing I want to happen least so if it happens I get paid out. By the way, Sammy and I made a ton of money when the Canadians beat the Leafs in the playoffs. Betting on the Canadians

just in case we had to feel the pain of the Leafs losing. Too bad the Leafs are going to be a big favorite against Tampa this year. That's the strategy, eh? To betting. I call it a happiness hedge. You know, if I don't get the outcome I want, at least they pay me.

It's, I don't know. It's a really cynical strategy. You're paying for your happiness. Yeah. It's like if I lose that money, if I lose 10 on Brooks, at least I don't have to watch him win. I'm okay with that.

All right. Terrific show. Excited to be here. TBD. Something kind of nice about quiet building quiet roads just us hanging out talking for the next two hours i'm okay with it our bosses aren't listening so you can say whatever you want i wanted to check in with them today they weren't here i was surprised nobody's here a lot of parking spots and it is off whatever you want and and it is off the rails friday which we love which can only mean one thing uh doug mclean in about uh 40 minutes also in the second hour ken hitchcock fourth winningest coach

in nhl history he's going to be joining us Still doing a little bit of consulting with the St. Louis Blues. We'll find out what happened to them and what's going on in the Western Conference. We know he watches a ton. And last time we had him on the show, really enjoyed listening to him. Hockey guy.

Okay. And I'm going to tell you guys, besides Friday, we're going to take some tweets or some texts and some tweets. Where are they calling in? You can text 590590. You can at Sam A. McKee on Twitter, or you can, I don't know, YouTube chat as well.

Comment on YouTube as well. Comment on YouTube. Okay. At me on there, Sam McKee. And just as a little bit extra, like some whipped cream and maybe a little cherry on top to close out this week, I asked my buddy, Steph Mateau, if he could join us around 4.30 Eastern time. Mateau! Yeah, Mateau, Mateau, Mateau.

And I said, are we going to talk hockey? And I say, no i just want to hear about you the time that you played in augusta he played augusta yeah he played augusta so i want to hear his experience as we drool watching it on the monitor from afar here you know who else has played augusta jerry. He went to cover it once for us and won the lottery. And Rory McIlroy finishes off a plus five, two days at the Masters and will not be part of the weekend. The betting favorite bows out.

Wow. Freddie Couples still battling though. My boy, my all-time favorite golfer, Freddie Couples. Using a yellow ball. Even par, but to roll one in for part okay all right sorry crank her up here toronto toronto and boston last night did it uh serve its purpose we knew the odds were totally stacked for the toronto maple leafs to end up with home mice so other than that not much to play for we know now today there's nothing to play for in the next uh four

games for the for the leafs but did last night do anything for you sitting here today despite a 2-1 overtime loss yeah it did a couple of things for me you know i'll start with a positive which is i thought that was a really well-played hockey game last night from a coaching system structure standpoint. You know, the way you want a team to look, I thought it looked really organized. There was no room. Like if you're a fan,

you might've said that was low event or uninteresting or whatever. A really well-played game, I thought. On the other hand they generated jack squat and so that is the negative side of the positive is how do you create when you're being conservative playing defense all that stuff i didn't see anything you saw last night beautiful beautiful i usually make sure the best shows so i'm not gonna say anything most because i want to get sammy's uh view and then we can all pile on okay sammy what did you see last night i saw two really good teams playing uh a somewhat meaningless game and i thought they looked really

evenly matched for a lot of the game it would be my general oversight of the game i thought it was a playoff style game in terms of the physicality of the game i thought it was a playoff style game in terms of the physicality tightness and i thought the least were up to it so that's what it would be my overall thought before we get to you kepper all right uh for me before we get into anything i'm just happily surprised how hard teams are playing in general before we go into toronto and boston just in general watching and we go into Toronto and Boston, just in general, watching, and we're going to get in a lot more on detail of what we saw out of Ottawa and Florida last night.

But guys are playing hard to the point where guys are getting hurt. That's how hard they're playing. And last night was an example with Charlie McAvoy not finishing the game. So kudos to all the teams right now that they could easily, playing and last night was a an example with charlie mcavoy not finishing the game so uh kudos to all the teams right now that they could easily mail it in and they're not yeah lack of the juice lack of the juice so i think it's just a week uh and change out of the stanley cup playoffs i think it's a good sign tampa last night yes it was just so we won't be distracted anymore the horn has blown for weather at aug just so we won't be distracted anymore.

The horn has blown for weather at Augusta. So we're not missing it. Come on. Eight minutes into our show. No golf. No, I guess. There we go.

What a gift. There we go. Yes. But last night, I think I sent to our group chat a text at one point. You know, left the game for Tampa. His leg looked like not good.

Oh, Hey, you guys saw that. It's not full under him. Joe Theismann ask. Oh boy and um who else on tampa chernak was out uh sorelli's out sorelli was out maroon maroon left the game like you don't know who's going to play but these are you get hurt now you're feeling it in 10 days yeah so all the more reason for the Leafs to take them lightly and lose so in saying that I I didn't get the sense of uh of a good goal uh game even coaching system wise I I didn't see that no uh

loved the goaltending the two best players on the ice as far as I'm concerned. Yep. Samsonov and Swayman. But it was one of those games where I think it was a meat and potatoes game. Yep. The stars were the third and fourth line guys on each respective club. I thought the stars struggled. I thought all of them from Bergeron, Marchand, Willie, Tavares, they all struggled. Collectively, I think they were 0 for 7 on the power play.

There was nothing crisp. The Leafs had two shots and three power plays. We're going to get into that as well. But so as far as what you saw from your third and fourth liners let's start with lafferty okay standing oh yes and here we were during the whole season with the concern on your third and fourth and here we are today yeah and no concern for third and fourth lines for the least but maybe a little concern for one and two yeah no you're right i mean i thought the line of tavarez neil and her marner was awful like just not that like they turn the puck over a bunch or what just

nothing happened. It's almost like Mitch can pick up anyone on the team, but he can't pick up two guys who are playing crummy. Tavares and Nylander right now can't generate a thing. What would you say you do here? I mean, you can't play that line together for me. You got to separate Willie and JT. They can't get the puck together for me you gotta separate willie and jt they can't get the puck back kev so if we go back to the experimenting and then mitch marner sits out sunday against

detroit he comes back he can't he can't find anything no rhythm yeah uh there's just nothing and i'm not saying see this is i don't have answers i don't know i could sit here and say i've been around the game a long long time i'm only guessing to tell you that it was a good or bad idea to sit mitch out on sunday and here we are four games to go and i can't tell you what the right or wrong thing to do is on how you want to approach the games. Do you back off? Do you want to sit guys out? Do you not want to sit guys out?

All I know is Mitch hasn't looked very good since sitting out that one game. Okay. And it just seems like there's no rhyme or reason right now for the first two lines. I don't know where you go from here. On four, according to the stands, meaningless games. But they have to have some meaning here because your big boys aren't going.

Yeah, you're trying to figure out what the lines are going to be. And I think you can make the case that last night you did get some conclusion. Like, that's not the lineup you want to go with. You know, that look last night where you hope matthews can pull through with a couple of guys who aren't first line guys you'll create a first line the way that crosby did with rust and genzel if you are putting if you're using those three assets to create a line and you're not you're taking them away from other

parts of your lineup you're expecting that baby to be overwhelming right and you're not, you're taking them away from other parts of your lineup, you're expecting that baby to be overwhelming, right? Like you're expecting. That's your super line. You're expecting that thing to go out there and, you know, win all their minutes and look dominant five on five. And it just felt like they were not really involved a whole lot. Like I guess on the power play, like they had some looks or whatever.

It's a completely different thing, but I don't think it's more, I don't think it's about Mitch Kipper and him getting rested. It's just way more about JT and Willie for me. Well, they still haven't rested Tavares, have they? No, and now that they've clinched home ice advantage, I would imagine. I would imagine that's coming.

Surely they're going to, but. But he's struggling right now. Yeah. So on top of struggling, you're going to take him out, and maybe it is a mindset to reset him. Yeah, do something different. It's like jump start, you know? It's a defib. You guys know how I felt.

I've been talking about resting him and Gio all season long. Yeah. And now you're four games to go. He's struggling, and now you're on your four games to go he's struggling and now you want to sit him out now you it's it's a negative sit him out on a positive now it's a negative i a negative or not i i give these guys a lot of credit for being pros and being able to you know we're resting guys it's the playoffs surely you can see the big picture here you know give the guys some credit, I think. And I know you and I have had these kind of conversations before,

but I think when you sit down, you present it to the guys and say, doesn't mean anything. You're 32. You're not playing very well. Let's just sit one out for a night. Okay. And if he struggles going into game one, you just hope he hits the switch.

No, you still have three games after Saturday night. You have Florida, Tampa Bay, Rangers. Like, he's not going to not have played hockey. I mean, I think... Is three enough to turn him around? Is four enough? If he plays one more, is your point to keep him in? No, my point is you may have missed the window.

That's my point. I mean, that I'll missed the window. That's my point. I mean, that I'll hear for sure. That's a very real case. And maybe, you know, it should have happened several times in February and March and whatever up till now. Yeah. Because. Just sit him until the end of the season. You would?

Yeah. Oh, God. I don't want him going in like his last regular season thoughts were like, I can't play. I'm no good. To me, it's not about his hands. It's not about his scoring. It's just about the pace.

Legs, yeah. He just looks like he doesn't have any. Yeah, but he's smart enough to understand. I can't keep up with these young legs, but I can outsmart them. Week and a half off might help. Help the old stems a bit. Like, I am really hoping to see some load management down the stretch here. I can outsmart them. Week and a half off might help. Help the old stems a bit. Like I would, I am really hoping to see some load management down the stretch here.

They're playing the Montreal Canadians on Saturday night in a game that does not matter. I mean, none of their games matter. I am curious to see. There's not one game left. There's not one game left that matters. They're all irrelevant.

I just don't necessarily want to see the attitude of just mailing in these four games when your power play is struggling and you don't know your lines are and you don't know who your lines are that's the case to keep them in is you don't know what anyone looks like well you know what like what you don't know what your lines are but you know you could be losing a guy when he gets stepped on his leg in a meaningless game yeah right like what are you's just, at this point of the season, it's really hard for me to be... That can't be your first priority is to try to bubble wrap these guys, Sammy.

I'm generally on team your hockey player play hockey. No, not all four, but I do think I'd be fine to see them rest. You do have a back-to-back in here against Florida and Tampa. The Tampa Bay to me is a throwaway.

With everything that Tampa's been through, I don't expect them to play anyone of significance. I really don't. If they do, they'll play 10 or 12 minutes. That one's a throwaway for me. Okay, well then maybe that's the one. That could be an interesting game. So maybe you use Montreal and Florida to sort your lines out.

Say, you know, you play Montreal, Florida, New York. So you're going to go into Monday night against the Florida Panthers, who just played the greasiest game of the year, who are fighting for a playoff spot. Matthew and Chuck murdering dudes on the ice. You're going to put them out there? Big targets. They're going to play so hard against Toronto.

They are fighting for their lives. Like that one, I'm not sure I want to go in. I feel like you're playing both sides of this. You want guys to not play but you want them to play. I'm just saying that I don't know. I told you I don't know the answer. I'm only just

looking back and saying, okay, if it's just for the sole purpose of resting somebody, I don't know if you got enough time to do that anymore. Like there's not an urgency for anything except for the guys to start feeling good. Can you accomplish that sitting them out? Can you accomplish that you can get the guys feeling good about their line mates in game one or game two if you sit them out like can you get the power play feeling good again if you sit tovaris out

here's what i know about sitting them out right now there's whatever 10 games till the first till game one toronto or tampa bay 10 days tampa bay has three games the leafs can play three games as well all those guys who play three games you're in the same boat as tampa bay you have four on the schedule i don't think missing one is going to make anyone out of rhythm or worse or whatever no we got to get them in rhythm not out of rhythm they're out of rhythm already it's to get them back in yeah i i don't know what you want them to do yeah and i know you don't all play together and play well that's what you want them to do. And I know you don't. I want them to all play together and play well.

That's what I want. I want them to play together, play well, not get hurt and be rested. And start making the necessary adjustments to make your power play better. I want all of that. I imagine these are the very conversations they're having about what do we do next. Yes. Yeah. I'm terrified.

Let's have Kee Keith give us the overview. Yes. From last night's hockey match. I thought our guys played incredibly hard. It took us a little bit to adjust to the opponent. Obviously, it's a much different game here than we've played of late, certainly than we played last game. But I thought our guys played real hard.

It's a big point for us. And they played hard. They did play hard. Yeah. Okay. Earlier in the show, I told you, you know, coaching. Leafs up 1-0 in the third. And did you watch the goal they gave up? Yes yeah who was on the ice uh i don't know who's on

the ice luke shen yeah i know and that's to me that's everybody focuses luke didn't get the puck out luke right yeah yeah go watch it again just just watch it again and tell me who the forwards and just tell me what you see because you're a stupid guy. I'm guessing without seeing, it's going to be Nylander flying the zone. No. Bunting flying the zone. No. Then a Tavares?

No. You tell me who then. Matthews. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And who is in the defensive zone? Let me guess, Mitch Marner?

No. Oh, I don't know. Okay. I can pull it up here. I can pull it up right now. He had out there Matthews, Tavares on the left side, and Willie Nylander on the right. Matthews, Tavares, Nylander.

Okay. So three of their four best players. Okay. Okay. But not three of their best. You're up one goal defensive players. And who's the best defensive player on that shift? Matthews.

Yes. Yeah. But I'm going to blow the zone because I think Luke Shen is going to get a chip off the glass and I'm going to go in for a breakaway. Right. And I'm going to leave Willie and Tavares out there. And it was, let me tell you, that shift was a dog's breakfast. Yeah.

Yeah, it's ugly all around. I got to tell you, the John Tavares defensively is questionable. Well, okay. No, hold on. My question is, we've never talked about Matthews, Willie, and John Tavares as a line. Never. Never even. Why are they out there 1-0 in the third period?

I imagine this is right after a Boston power play because that's the line he puts out after the apk yeah because they're the three fresh guys yeah but like again why do you why why are they out there like you're up one nothing you want to make it to nothing you want to grab them by the throat and bury them is that the time now you want to go power up? I imagine that's the idea, yeah. Well, Kip, I mean, if you can't put your three best players on the ice. No, you can't. You can't.

You can't put those. You can't trust Willie and Tavares and have Matthews blow the zone. That's, if I'm Austin, if I'm Sheldon, and I've got Austin with those two guys yeah on the wings yeah you know what i'm telling them hey you're the guy who's back thank you yeah i'm watching this back there's two guys right beside the puck handler with shen shen has the puck unpressured and matthews is in the zone below the hash marks before he's about to put it off the glass and he flies because you'd think an NHL defenseman can get the puck out there.

They're trying to win the game. Like, Matthews is so responsible defensively. Okay, stop it, please. Look at the two guys that are, I'm watching it right now. There's two guys with puck support right there. They're flying just as much. Go back. Go back and look at it, please.

Okay? Now, tell me, you're Luke Shen now. You have the puck. Stop it right there. Look at his options right now. Pretty good. Nah. That's a dangerous one.

Look at Nylander right now. How is Willie helping him? Yeah, Willie's not. I mean, maybe a little bump. You've got one thing on your mind right now if you're Luke Shen. Do not put it up in the stands. I'm telling you right now. That one was, do not

flirt with throwing it over the glass. So he puts it in a place where he thinks he can get it out, and it just is a disaster here. You know what's really bad here is he has stopped this puck. Coyle has stopped this puck or whoever it is at the blue line. And two Leafs are in front of him.

Tavares and Nylander right now. Yeah. Right? Now they're on the wrong side of the puck. Can you take it back and just watch Willie play Carlo the whole shift? That's really his man. Right? Carlo has time to look like Devon White in the heyday of the blue jay settling under

uh a lazy fly ball so another part of this that you gotta give carlo credit that's a tall guy jumps jumps full jump gets it in a centimeter before it goes out like that's you gotta tip your cap sometimes no that's not tipping your cap, bud. That's not playing hard enough against Carlo. Well, the guy you brought in to literally get the puck off the glass and out didn't do it. They just had this whole celebration of him getting the puck off the glass. Didn't he talk about Lilligren or someone learning from Shen saying, boy, sometimes the glass is a pretty good option.

It's like, you better get it out if that's the option. Willie and Tavares struggling. They're struggling. That's not the time to throw matthews out there with those guys i don't agree i you know i don't agree you you got you got to have the right guys on the ice you do you're coming off a pk where you would have had yarn crock and marner and kerfoot and all those guys would have just played this is the shift after a pk they always go with these guys if If you can't trust those guys, you're in big trouble. You always go with

those guys and it never really materializes. You load up off a penalty kill with those guys all the time and it doesn't really work. I don't know if that's... I have no idea. No, I'm telling you it doesn't work. I can't think of them scoring a whole ton of goals. Anyways, I mean it's...

This is crunch time. This is getting the right guys out at the right time. I thought Sheldon took a chance with those guys, and it came back to bite them. That's all. Yep. So it ends up 1-1 at that point. Seven minutes left in the hockey game.

They lose in overtime on a David Pasternak shot off a power play. I don't know. The other thing, too. What's he at? He's got 57 right now. They cannot win a draw to start overtime. I know. Stop overthinking it.

He's got Ryan O'Reilly. Why? Put out the good player. Put out the heart trophy guy. You're over the yips. You're over the yips. Just do it. You got Ryan O'Reilly out there coming off a broken finger.

I'm not sure I would have had him out there to start overtime. I think it's like, oh, we've been doing this defensive thing. This is sort of a little bit better than camp. You know, still defensively responsible, but it's like, yeah. Matthews is still drinking Gatorade on the end of the bench. Listen, Morgan's settling in a lot better than he's been in the past. But don't lose your check on Brad Marchand. Yeah.

Three on three, four on four, five on five. It doesn't matter. We know it's one on one. Yeah. Box him out. How does he get inside on you and you have to pull him down? No excuse. Yeah.

Yeah. No, I agree. I agree. It's not great. And, you know, you talk about someone you have to be careful with. You see him in those sort of situations where all of a sudden you're in your own D zone. It's, you know, clench your teeth time. Yeah.

Not a lot of trust there, I don't think. Yeah. And Marchand's struggling. Like, when he zigs, he should have zagged. He missed that one behind the goalie in OT or whatever. He's still hard to play against, right? Listen, I didn't think he looked very good at all. Yeah.

I don't, like. He doesn't have the same pop. He didn't, I think, didn't they say in the broadcast he's gone 13 games at a goal? Like. Yeah, he's less than a point per game they like there's it's not the same guys that were scaring me last night you know i thought that the the top six is kind of canceled out and it was the bottom six game really they're deer just so good you know like mcavoy and lindholm and orland home like was i thought i didn't i'm not

they're most dangerous guys i'm not sure how uh that compares to other games he's played yeah but even last night I'm watching him just be a horse out there yeah I thought the Leafs top guys on defense were just as good like McCabe and Brody were unbelievable like them yeah yeah like I really did I just I thought that they stacked up well defensively I thought Hall was stacked up well defensively. I thought Hall was really good last night, taking a beating. The only guys who felt like they did anything up front

was the Zach Aston Reese, Lafferty, Kempf line, really. I mean, otherwise, it can't. What is it the boys, the big boys, are not doing to generate offense? Well, for me, it's puck retrieval. To me, I, like, for years, the best line here has had someone to go get it connor brown went and got it you know zach hyman went and got it codry was a guy who went and got it uh andreas johnson used to get it like someone would go get the puck i look at some of

these lines right now with the great players they don't seem to get to play with it as much and to me a lot of that is recovery and just having someone who can go get it on these lines and yarn croc and bunting can do it a little, you know, they should be on different lines, provide an element of that on the first and second line. If you like, other than that,

like, you know, Matthews has got to hunt it. We know Marner's a big takeaway guy, but you know, you don't want them to have to fish for their own pucks and make the plays all the time too. You'd like sometimes someone to get it for them.

Did last night for you, Sammy, convince you that Yarncroft and Matthews isn't penciled in for game one together? I don't know what Matthews' fancy stats were last night, but it seemed like he had the puck quite a bit when he was out there like i i felt like he looked like he just has the puck the whole time i guess because of who he's playing with but i thought he had a couple really good shifts in the third almost scored right at the end like i don't know he looks really good

to me so watching him play with those two guys the more and more i watch him play with those two guys, the more and more I watch him play with those guys and the way that Matthews is playing right now, I want, it makes me long to get 16 back with him. Yeah. Because the way that Matthews is going and the way that Marner was going before they rested him and now they're playing him with the two guys to try and get him going,

I feel like you almost got to have to admit it and just put him back there because that line could be so overwhelming with the way both those guys are playing. Like it really feels like he's trying to get cute here and spread it out as much as he possibly can when it may not be the best option. Yeah. I don't know.

You know, just, but there's so few guys going Marner and Matthews are the guys right now. Like O'Reilly's just back Tavares and Nylander not at their best. So it's really, it's tough when you don't have your best players going and you end up scoring These are the guys right now. Like O'Reilly's just back. Tavares and Nylander not at their best. So it's really, it's tough when you don't have your best players going. You end up scoring one goal. That's what happens.

A lot of talk about Michael Bunting this week. I wrote an article in the Toronto Star about it. It's almost as if he wants to be now on his best behavior. And it's like one or the other here. Was it the icing last night where he was going to be first to it and he didn't complain to a ridiculous degree? Is that the one you're thinking of? I'm just saying that he's completely opposite of what we've seen

in the past and I get it, what he's trying to do, but can he still be effective if he's just completely swung the pendulum on the other side? I said yesterday on our show, like the fact that he's doing this is good. It's part of what he is.

He's making you think about him. You know, like he's distracting. He's got that element. But did you find him engaged last night? No. I don't want to see that bunting. I don't want unengengaged bunting i'll take angry yelling at the refs bunting yeah it's yeah it's swung too it's hard it's swung too far that's a tough job it's really hard and i do feel for him a little bit no not man it's just for him to find that sweet spot on where he can be effective when he can chirp when to back

off when to push and right now he's just completely closed off yeah of the conversations we're going to have today i do want to have the shen one beyond the one play where you know maybe not a big deal maybe is a big deal or whatever because let's be honest when we all talk about the game off the air we're all kind of like some concerns you know about his skating foot speed there are some concerns there i love the guy yeah he's no good last thing you know like there's definite moments where it's like i love that element he brings and i love that physicality but yeah there's a reason he's was healthy on his way to the cups half the games i'm curious to see how often he's in i think he'll start in i don't know if he'll stay in when he had success when he

won the stanley cup in tampa it was in and out it was playing 10 12 minutes I guess but you got to have a defensive core that is really settled and I think the Leafs are doing a lot better of a job you know going into these last four games with that blue line and you mentioned the guys that had a strong game it's just a matter of now Sheldon finding his sweet spot

with Luke I can see it being a thing like last year when they started kind of heavier guys in game one and two like you know i've said this for a while now but i can see them being like all right then lilligran's gonna play like i can see so it's important i think that lilligran gets some games assuming he's your next guy in and not gustafson but i am assuming that gustafson's gonna get in the next game because he hasn't played hockey in two weeks yeah i mean i haven't seen any lines or anything but i think it's a fairly safe bet that we see gustafson on saturday night you know as encouraged as i was by

what i saw from the bottom six guys in a playoff style gritty defensive game i'd say i was equally as discouraged what i saw from shen in that same style of game yeah where like i didn't think you can't be that surprised oh i'm not surprised listen i i but you know you think of it's a different matchup than tampa i think boston i think maybe boston's a little bit more pace around their lineup maybe than tampa does i know tampa's got a couple guys that can fly but in general i think maybe you'd say that boston's a faster team i just felt like they got hemmed in a bunch when he was on the ice last night like even the first shift of the game it felt like they were in the leaf zone for two minutes and he was kind of standing around the net like he doesn't be tough he does a lot of sagging so

he doesn't get beat you know like he retreats to the front of the net to the middle of the ice so guys kind of have room to play around the outside which is fine right they're not getting to the front of the net to the middle of the ice so guys kind of have room to play around the outside which is fine right they're not getting to the dangerous areas but it does allow it makes for a lot of hockey in your end yeah okay uh best sign of the night in a 2-1 loss in overtime are you gonna ask me samson Yeah, I thought he looked awesome. Which is really maybe the most important. I would say that's the final nail in the he's the guy coffin game one. I think that nail had been driven home the second Matt Murray took a tumble. Any updates on him? No.

No. He's not on long term i know elliot uh friedman r elliot has talked about uh perhaps maybe it being a little tricky on his contract and what yeah i think it might have to do with like the bonuses and how it affects the cap. Oh, like if he plays more hockey? First of all, I think Walls on the Murray situation has kind of made it a little cloudy, I think, on contracts. So I think it might be a little tricky.

I don't think it, from the people that I've talked to, I don't think it's a huge issue, and they will be able to kind of figure it out, but obviously with Wall up, which even if he's on an emergency basis, has kind of thrown a little bit of a wrench on fitting Nise's contract in. All righty.

Well, that's interesting. Something we'll keep an eye on. Speaking of contracts, Matthew Nize won his game yesterday. So he will be playing in the final for the national championship tomorrow. Against Quinnipiac, who beat Michigan. Good call by Books. What'd you like about Samana then cap i just think uh he's real confident right now and he's just there for you and it's not it's not a fish out of water

there seems to be some some calmness in him his game now he's not for me he's not even scrambling as much as i've seen him in the past yeah it just looks like he has settled in he's confident knows he's the guy and looks like the guy which is nice yeah rebound controls not a lot of second chances yeah feels like he's good enough right like it just feels like he's good enough we'll see once the playoff starts but it feels like he's good enough okay let's get uh let's get sheldon keith on uh his number one goaltender yeah i don't know where that where the yeah he's solid very solid he said there's not a lot of offense to go around for either team here tonight both teams defended incredibly hard but uh he was solid didn't let anything in that he shouldn't. And games like this, that's what you're asking for.

That's it. Solid. Solid and simple. So four games left. Give me your Samsonov, which in and which out. Four games left. How about you want him in twice? Is that enough?

Do you guys twice? How florida and the rangers last game of the year montreal and florida i don't know guys what do you think i think he plays the last game of the year i think so right you want to put him in there in the last game of the year and then i'd say he plays against Montreal. So he's going to play, but you don't want to show him Tampa. So I don't know how you balance it. I don't know. I have no idea. This is the all-time solving nothing thing.

Nothing. Wall plays Saturday for sure. See, maybe he's been so good he doesn't need that. Maybe I'm leaning with Sammy a little bit. Maybe he's been so good he doesn't need that. Maybe I'm leaning with Sammy a little bit. Maybe he's been so good. Samsonov's been so good at home that you don't need another home start for him. He just hasn't played. He also just had a newborn.

I wonder if they're going to let him think about something else for a minute here. So does he play Florida or Tampa Bay? Not Tampa. I ain't showing him to Tampa. Why? You just showed him in Boston. Yeah, it's different. Why? minute here so does he play florida or tampa bay not tampa i ain't showing him to tan why you just showed him in boston yeah it's different why because you're not seeing boston for a couple weeks no if you do no i i don't i i'm a i'm a lot more comfortable with samsonov going against tampa based on what he did against boston the only reason i think it might be good is to for him to be like, well, and to

be like, here's a like a dress rehearsal for what it's going to be like. It's a freebie in Tampa Bay. Here's what the crowd looks like. Here's where the building is. Here's where it shots look like it's reps, you know? So, yeah. So I, yeah, it's a freebie. Yeah.

It's a guy who's get used to this building. Yeah. Get used to everything that you just mentioned. Yep. There's a lightning thing up there that makes a sound when they score on you. They're hit and miss. They're inconsistent. They're hurt. Oh, right.

They're hurting. Yeah. I can't believe I'm so excited for this playoff series. They also have a bunch of guys who are like, oh, we're playing against that. And that's the only healthy goalie. Kalorn, I'm going to jam you in the you know where oh man that's a really good point that's a that's a greasy team here comes perry here comes haggle here comes cologne just learn to deal with it it's coming anyways yeah but all right then dress simmons

and shen and all right here's our tab again then it's's going to be Simmons, Shen, McCabe, Lafferty, Achari. Call up Clifford. Yeah, call up. Who else punches down there? Call them up. Can you get Punchy Douglas back? Great point. Get Clifford in.

Get him back. He's playing third line on the Marlies. Get him up here. Let him punch. It's punching time. Now we're starting to solve some things. There is going to be a brawl in that Tampa Leafs game. Good.

It'll bring them together. Yeah, a little hootenanny never hurt. Just Mitch and Bogosian going toe-to-toe at center ice. You know who can verify all of this? Doug McClain, former NHL president, GM, and the headliner on Off the Rails Friday. Back after these words, the best blue J show out there, period Blair and Barker.

Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is real kipper and board on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Also on the program, Ken Hitchcock. We're going to track down Steph Mateau, former teammate of mine from 1994 Stanley Cup Rangers. He's going to tell us all about Augusta playing

where the whole golf world is watching today. Cup Rangers. He's going to tell us all about Augusta playing. Amazing. Where the whole golf world is watching today. You know who else I bet is watching since he's renewed love for the game of golf? Our next guest, Doug McClain. Every time he shoots like an 80, he has to let me and the whole world know. What's Doug's cap? i don't know ask him doug what's your cap handicap handicap we're cool we just say cap seriously like seriously it was 20 it's 27 when i read the day i walked into Rodgers, it was 27.

Hold on, time out. Tell this guy to phone. I've got an echo in my ear. Okay, we're going to call you back. We're going to call you back. Call him again? Sammy, call him back. Sammy always...

The Doug call is always... Doug's is always challenging. One day, Sammy's going to fix this. That's because he's always on a speedboat in the Hawaiian Riviera or something. Mayan Riviera? Not somewhere. I don't know. Maybe a glass of wine might have more to do with it than anything.

That's probably related. Have you played golf with Doug, I assume? Actually, maybe once. That's funny. In Prince Edward Island, maybe like 12 years ago, 15 years ago. A lot more with you and Sammy lately. But he

loves it. Who doesn't? Yeah. We need a pickleball version of golf maybe. So are they playing again? Are they back up? They're back up at Augusta. Back playing Tiger even par on the day. Two over for the tournament. T50 and the top 50 make the cut.

So he is on the line right now. Okay. You're telling us how great you are at golf. The day I walked into Rogers, I had a 27 handicap. Yeah. And then you got fired from Rogers. And now what's your handicap? I didn't get fired.

I didn't get my contract renewed. Okay. All right. Now it's 10. Are you watching the Masters? I just got back up from the pool where I did my 35-minute swim. I just got up from the pool. I have it on here

now. Between the pool and the Masters and the golf, you got time to watch hockey lately, Florida and say Ottawa last night. That's right in your backyard. No, I didn't watch that one. I watched the leaks at Boston.

All right, let's start there. Enough for, for you to sit there and say, if in fact Toronto and Boston meet in the second round that, Hey, Toronto doesn't match up that poorly against them. sit there and say if in fact Toronto and Boston meet in the second round that hey Toronto doesn't match up that poorly against them

I wouldn't I would just calm down a little if I were you and let's see how they do in the first round half of Tampa's teams on the shelf right now Leafs in five actually you're picking Leafs in five. That's who you're picking,

the Leafs in five? What do you think? You know, I liked their game last night. I liked the Leafs game last night. I thought they really played well. I mean, their third and fourth line. Finally, I mean, we've talked about this for four years,

about the third and fourth line. And today, like, what is it a month ago we said that just put O'Reilly on the third line, set up a third line that can play against Nick Paul and company, and let's get on with this. So then I watched last night, and they've got Tavares with Marner and Nylander, and they've got Matthews with Yarncroft and somebody else.

Like, seriously. What are they? Like, does Tavares need both these guys playing with him? I mean, come on. Get it set up. Like, are they going to go into the playoffs with Marner, Nylander, and Tavares on one line? Are they serious?

Do you think that would be a bad thing for them if they try to load up a line like that? Like, I know that is a little bit of the conversation is, you know, even with Ryan O'Reilly, if you swap him in on that line somewhere, do you like the idea of putting three of their bigger guys on the line or no? You're loading up a line except you're missing one thing on the load. Your best player. He's not on the loaded up line. That's Matthews. That's like

putting McDavid with McCloud and Derrick Ryan. Good point there. Seriously. I mean, Matthews tried like a Cloud and Derek Ryan. Did you see them do that? Seriously. I mean, Matthew's tried like a bugger last night to make a couple things happen. But, I mean, he was on an island last night. And then you look at the ice time that the big loaded up line got. They were around 14 minutes.

Like, what is this? I mean, look, I love the way he's trying to get his third and fourth line together. I get that. But why not, like, Tavares and Nylander, do they have to be on the same line? Can you not give Tavares one of them and Matthews one of them? So you've got, all of a sudden, you've got four lines that can play. You know, it's like their power play. I mean, the power play is going to be the most critical thing against tampa bay because tampa bay's taking a lot of penalties and their

penalty killings no good lately hasn't been good all year so is it 79 and it's been terrible the last three weeks so now you got this power play that comes out with the big five on it morgan riley and four other guys and And if Tampa can kill the first minute, there's nothing coming on the second power play. Ryan O'Reilly and who on the second power play. So Tampa's going to kill a minute 10, and then they're okay. They can survive. So I just don't get why he doesn't balance it out a little.

It's not that complicated, is it? Now, maybe they'll win with it like this. I don't know. I mean, and then they put Ryan O'Reilly. I don't mind Ryan O'Reilly moving up from the third line every once in a while. But come on, put him on the third line. Make it their best third line in 10 years. Make it their best third line in 10 years that you can play in the playoffs

with that third line. Because third lines are critical to winning at playoff time i think the concern for sheldon keith right now is that your third line might be better than your second line if it's tavaris and neilander they are struggling mac and he's got four games to either get them feeling good about themselves or it's a real challenge going into Tampa, the

Tampa series, with those two guys not cranking. Okay, so is putting Marner with them going to change them, or are they going to have three guys struggling? That's my question. Are you going to have three guys struggling? That's my question. Are you going to have three guys struggling?

Yeah. Because right now, I mean, and then you may have Matthews struggling if you play him with who you're playing him with. I mean, that's not a recipe to win. So, look, Matthews, does he need Marner, Matthews? I think Tavares needs Marner. Tavares probably needs Marner, doesn't he? I would think that that's what they think.

Okay, so what about Nylander with Matthews and Bunting? It's probably where it ends up. I hope so. I hope so. Because, I mean, look, yeah, they played really well last night. They really checked well. I mean, Wayman had to make, what, five saves? Five big saves?

They were good. Both goalies were great. Five good saves. You know, Samsonov was – I thought Samsonov was good. I didn't think the Bruins – I mean, look, the Bruins are missing a couple of really important guys on their lineup. And then they lose McAvoy probably through the game. The Bruins did not look great last night the Leafs played well the Leafs have a chance to

beat Tampa Bay I really believe that I said that two weeks ago on this show or three weeks ago they have a chance to beat them don't screw it up with trying to be cute that's all I'm saying do you think some rest for a guy like Tavares would help him? Like you got four games left. Tampa has three left. Would you like to see him sit out or do you feel like he's got to play his way through these struggles here? Well, I mean,

I don't, I don't, you know, Tavares is a pro. He doesn't want to sit out. And when, when push comes to shove, I think Tavares will be there at playoff time.

And I'll be really surprised if he's not there at playoff time. You know, I just, you know, this, don't jeopardize the team because John Tavares is struggling. You know, don't screw up two lines because John Tavares is struggling. John Tavares is a big boy. Make him $11 million.

Play your way out of it and try to put the right lineup with him. But putting Mariner and Nylander there, in my opinion, is a bad move. It makes no sense to me. And leaving your best, your biggest horse, who if he isn't going, Matthews, they're not going to win the series. If Matthews isn't going, and he hasn't been going a lot of the season,

I'd be more worried about Matthews on top of his game than I would be to ours we're talking to Doug McLean former NHL president GM and head coach as far as the four games remaining it's Montreal at home then Florida back to back before they close out the Rangers. How many games does Samsonov need? Two is enough for you? And if they are, where would you start him? Florida or Tampa Bay? I'd start him in Florida. I'd start him in Florida,

and I wouldn't play him against Tampa Bay. I'd just rest him in the Tampa Bay game. It's giving them a look they don't need on Samson. Although they study him, I get all that. But you don't want Samson going in there and getting beat by Tampa Bay. I know it would be great if he goes in there and wins, but if he loses, I just don't think it's a good start to the next couple of weeks. So I wouldn't use him against Tampa.

But I'd use him against – obviously but i'd use him obviously he should play two of the four games or that sort of role have in lineup decisions roster construction all that stuff is a team like the leafs heads towards the playoffs i didn't hear the intern screwed up the mic again i didn't hear the first part of the question. I'm just wondering how much a GM and or president, how much say they would have and how the team rolls out their personnel in game one? Well, if it's Tortorella, you know, at least they'd be able to communicate

sitting next to each other in the press box since Tortorella doesn't coach anymore. What is that all about seriously but anyway that's that's for another day uh look uh i i think that it's a group thing i mean keith is gonna should should make the call on it i mean to me he's the coach he should make the call but i i gotta believe it would be a a of management and Keefe trying to come up with a consensus as how to be best prepared. I would probably listen to Brendan a little more than I'd listen to Kyle for playoff preparation because Shanahan had a fair amount of experience with it.

But still, I mean, I think it's a group decision and, you know, they've got, they'll have a pretty good field who needs a little bit of a break and who doesn't here. But I mean, I think it's a group decision. And, you know, they'll have a pretty good field who needs a little bit of a break and who doesn't here. But, I mean, their focus is, you know, this is a great opportunity with the way Tampa Bay's injured and struggling combination. I mean, if they can get to Vasilevsky, they can win this series. And they need Samsonov to be a star every night to win the series,

in my opinion. He better be really, really good. He has been most of the season, but playoffs are the playoffs. Big difference. But he looks like he's ready. He looked solid last night. You can tell he's

on top of his game, and he feels really good about his game just by his comments. It's got the makings of a really interesting series. I mean, they can, you know, they've got a chance here. I don't know about the second round. Like, you're talking second round already. Let's get through the first first and see what happens, you know.

Shaping up, Mac, for an interesting week as we talk about the third and fourth line kind of settling in for the Leafs. We all expect Matthew Nyes to show up, a star from Minnesota, Hobie Baker finalist. If in fact he's signed and the promise is to burn a year off his deal, where do you see the fit in um in all your experiences having a kid join a team late in the season was it always well received uh or was there a sense how much can a college kid come in and and help right away yeah he'll i think he'll give the Marlies a chance to get out of the first round. Jeez. Like, seriously, they're not serious.

Like, I heard Elliott say that last night. He'd like to see him on the line with somebody. I thought, oh, Elliott, give me a break. Enough PR. Forget the PR talk, you know. I actually sent him a note on it. Like, he wasn't – I said, you're not serious about that guy. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Mack, he's 6'2 and 2'10".

Give him his one game and let him burn it off and then see if you've got some injuries. You're going to actually play one of your best games of the year and you're going to break up that bottom six to put him in there. You're not serious right now. If they need him, if somebody gets hurt, if somebody gets injured, which is going to happen, and he's your best guy to go in, but that's asking a lot for a kid that's – Hobie Baker, Bobby Barker, I don't care what he's won.

This is the National Hockey League playoffs against a team that's really good and for a team that cannot afford to lose a series or heads are going to roll. So give him his one game, one of the Florida games, see how he does, and then go from there. But I wouldn't be using him unless you had to. I think, you know, what are you going to take? Rafferty out? You're going to take Austin Reese out?

You're going to take Yarn? Who are you going to take Rafferty out? You're going to take Austin Reese out. You're going to take Yarn. Who are you going to take out to put him in? You know, how much of this, you know, you got to do some management with this guy's ego a little bit too, right? Like he's, it's Toronto media. They've been talking about playing with Matthews, you know, like he's been all this hype. You mentioned winning the Bob Barker award for the price is wrong or

whatever it was you mentioned in there. He's got all these trophies. You got to sit the kid down and be like hey you know like there's some ego management to do right you know and I guess it's happened where guys have come in and really done well but I think it happens over time I just I think it happens if you need a guy if there's injuries or if you're somebody's playing horrible and you you he's your next best guy to go in but first of all the pressure on him no pressure on playing him in florida and in one of the final games to see how he does but to put him with a matthews or to put him in up in the lineup it

it's just chemistry involved in all this stuff it's team building building. It's something the Leafs have been disastrous at for the last seven years is building a team. And finally, it looks like they have a team and they're going to do this? You guys are joking, right? Tell us how you really feel and do not sugarcoat it. Hey, Matthew Knight, I hear he's a really good player. But come on.

You finally looks like you have a team and you're going to tinker? Oh, my God. Anyway, that's just my own thoughts. Hey, you know what? If he comes in in game five or six of the playoffs and he's a star and he plays the rest of the way, good on him, great. But it's a disservice right now to the group that have 103 points, and it's a disservice to the kid to stick him in there in an important role

at this particular time until you really see what you've got. Anyway, I know college hockey is good, but big difference between the Tampa Bay Lightning and playing Mankato. Or Minnesota Duluth. Anyway. I just sunk everyone in Leaf Nation on Matthew Nyes. Yeah. All right, let's move it off the Toronto Maple Leaf, shall we?

Yes. All right. What did Hitch have to say about it? I'd love to see him. He wouldn't even play veterans let alone a college guy we'll ask him in the next hour don't worry what are your thoughts on the uh hello to hit for me oh i will don't you worry doug the turtle race in the the west what are your thoughts on the flames and the jets mutually trying to miss the playoffs. Someone has to get in. Yeah, I know.

It's really, I mean, I really like Daryl and I really like Rick. I mean, I'm torn. I watched that game the other night, and I mean, neither one of them really want to win, but I don't know what has gone wrong with both those teams, like both those teams. that winnipeg team was in first place not in october in january they were in first place and and in calgary i mean they have blown more easy games than you can imagine i i just don't get it i you know i hope i mean

i don't know who i'm who i'd like to see get in i know who I'd like to see get in. I know who I'd like to see miss, but I'm not sure who I'd like to see get in. But anyway, hopefully, I don't know. It's a, I mean, look at the schedule. It's kind of even, but both of them deserve to miss. I kind of want to know who you want to see miss. Well, I don't really care. Is it always the same from any era,

or does it feel like there's more pressure on management teams to win? And I'm not suggesting that Darryl or Tree Living, they'll get fired, you know, shovel day off, Rick Bonus, but are they feeling anything more than, say, coach or general managers felt, I don't know, 20, 30 years ago? Look, you know what? There's 207 general managers in the history of the National Hockey League. In over 100 years, there's only been 207 general managers.

That's amazing. I didn't know that. That's hard to believe. That's hard to believe, isn't it? That's how hard it is to get one of those jobs. Yeah, sure, you're worried about your job. There's no doubt you're worried about your job. And it's not easy to get another one.

But I just make that comment in over, what is it, 105, 107 years, 207 general managers. So, yeah, people worry about their jobs. And those two teams, they should be worried because they're both good. They've done both tree living and Chevy, in my opinion, have done a good job building those teams. You know, build it through the draft,

some good pickups and tough situations where guys were free agents and walking. Both you would have thought had great goaltending that would have got each of their teams in. Who would ever believe that Markstrom and Hellebuck wouldn't have got those two teams in the playoffs this year? And right now, it looks like one of them is getting in.

MVP-type goaltenders. So anyway, I don't know. It's frustrating. But you're right they're worried about their jobs there's no doubt they're worried about their jobs tree livings contracts up i don't know what chevy's is i don't know if he's got a lifetime deal or not with the owner but maybe he does a lifetime deal sounds good you know with me and um me and jb here uh you're talking to a couple of authors uh do we have to officially welcome you into the book club here?

Is it true that Amazon now has Draft Day by Doug McClain and Scott Morrison? They have it available on Amazon, but I think what to do with service, go on Simon & Schuster and just look it up, the book, Draft Day with Doug McClain or Draft Day with myself and Scott Morrison, and just have a look at what it says about the book and what it says about the author, and then make your decision whether you're going to put out $28 and buy it or pay $15 and get it on kindle

you know um just you know instead of me discussing but it is i think it's going to be an interesting book i think it's going to be really it's all about the draft it's all about uh all of the history of not the history of the draft but about a lot of different drafts and scenarios that happen. So I think it's going to be an interesting read for some people, you know? So no soul-searching like our books. Tell Hitch he's in it. Tell him I said he's in it and not in a very complimentary way. Oh, no, no no you pass that one on to him yourself no and then after a few minutes just say i had doug's kidding you're not even

mentioned in it so you go are you going through the history of the draft no no i'm not i'm just talking about different draft scenarios and stories and how it what it's like, you know, preparing the list and at the table and at the podium and, you know, putting your list together. And then I talked about, you know, I talked about the Jared have draft and about, you know, the Nash draft and some of my own personal, a lot of my personal stories just around the draft and why we made certain decisions and why other teams made certain decisions and well it's kind of just a lot of different draft stories and stuff so i think it's just you know it's i've said all along and history has shown that since since 1995 if you don't have 10 draft picks on your team that's up until last year with colorado's win if you don't have 10 of your own draft picks on the team, you don't win the Stanley Cup.

Right now, the Leafs have four or five, maybe. I don't know what it is. I don't think Dubas has one draft pick of his own on the team, does he? He's had a little bad luck there. Yeah, a little bad luck. But, you know, it's interesting. Is that going to change with free agency the way it's

become? But it hasn't up until last year if you don't have 10 picks on your team you don't win the cup so we'll see i looked last night boston have 12 of their own picks on their team rangers are right up there jersey have got 11 or so on their team you know their own pick so it's going to be interesting to just look at the end of this year and see if that holds true, you know, as it has for the last 30 years. Anyway, it's an interesting story. It's kind of a fun book. We've got to go to break here, but quickly, you didn't crap all over analytics, right?

You didn't crap all over analytics because JB has swung me over a little bit. I did a chapter in analytics, and I'll tell you what a guy told me. He said, you go out for dinner. you go out for a great steak dinner. And, and the guy I say, it's not analytics. Isn't a steak. It's not the potatoes. It's not the vegetables, but it might be the salt and pepper you put on. I don't know what that means. I like that. That's giving it, that's giving it credit.

I think it's a great tool, and I sort of did a chapter on it and got the real scoops from presidents, from GMs, from coaches as to what they really think of analytics. I love John Madden's quote, the former baseball quote. He said, I don't want my analytics guys in my dugout. I don't want them in my dressing room. And I just want them to tell me what time it is. I don't want to know how the watch was built.

I love that. Yeah. So I think it's a really honest, fair chapter on analytics. And I sort of gave a lot of guys were scared. Nobody would be quoted. Not one GM or president would be quoted on analytics because they're scared to tell the truth about it how hockey teams pick winners or get left behind it's draft day by doug mclean okay it's a great tool i believe in it i believe in it and it's

going to become real important looking forward to the book, thanks for having me on, and give my best to Hitch and tell him he's not. Gary Bettman's mentioned once in the book, and Hitch isn't mentioned at all. Okay, well, we'll pass on your words. Hey, Mac, thanks for doing this, man. Take care, guys. Thanks, Mac. Appreciate it.

Thanks for throwing it off the rails. Never, never disappoints us. No. Okay, we're going to go to break because we're way past the third base stop sign. Yes, sir. On that one. Back with Ken Hitchcock after the break

and Stefan Matteau, who played at Augusta. We're going to get his thoughts on... ...how great that course is. More after this. Smart takes on the biggest stories in sports. The Fan Drive Time with Ben Ennis. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Fan. Okay, from one ex-Columbus Blue Jacket to another, let's welcome in Ken Hitchcock. We've had Ken on the show before. It's been great. Thanks for making time for us, Ken. How are you? Good, guys.

How are things going in Toronto these days? Well, not bad. You know, we just had Doug McClain on, and, you know, he's at his ball busting best and uh he's got a he's got a book out called draft day and couldn't figure out whether or not me or you made the the cut in the book so uh we'll have to wait and see on that one but you got to give me one doug mcclain story i could take back to him please well i i i really enjoyed my time with him because he is and was so passionate and not afraid to take risks and he he really uh

he really saw things because he was a coach before you know he saw things in players that other people couldn't see and um especially from a competitive standpoint and so he if he if he saw a player with skill and he didn't like his edge that he brought he was all over that like he would he would say we're not taking this guy or we're not selecting this guy or he's not going to make our team because he doesn't have big enough balls to play. Well, we get that sense every week when we talk to him. But, you know, moving forward here on coaches in general, you know, you've been down so many stretches in a regular season.

And once you've locked up, treating those last three, four, five games, Hitch, what did you always look for that was the most important thing when you knew who you were playing or who had home base advantage? Nick, it was always structure. Like, you can amp up the temperature of your team. You can amp up the edge that you want

to play with you can put more second and third effort in but if your structure starts to wane you can't catch that back during a playoff series so i when i knew we were locked in i tried to downplay what position we got because the players weren't really concerned. They didn't care who we played, but I was really focused on making sure that systematically we were playing the right way. So when we had to dial it up, we could. You know, as the Leafs head towards their first round matchup with the Tampa Bay Lightning, they still can't quite figure out how they want to deploy their top lines, their big guys.

They're still kind of tinkering with things down the stretch. Do you think that is a negative? Are you okay with them still tinkering right now? If you were coaching, how would you want things to be going for them? I really like the way they play. I really like the way they compete. So I don't really think that he's going to tweak.

Sheldon's going to tweak when he has to. But I love the way they compete and the edge that they play with. And they play through people. They're a much different team this year than they've ever been and i like the way that they play right through you and i think that's going to be a huge advantage um come playoff time because they're going to need it to get through tampa and they're going to certainly need it to be competitive against boston but they don't take anything back from either one of those teams when they play,

and I don't think that's going to change during the playoffs. Hitch, you mentioned structure as being the most important, but where does ice time come in? Where does trying to protect your players? We've seen so many injuries in the last 24 hours in the last week. And, you know, how do you balance all that out? And then there's ego's hitch where some guys may think, Hey, listen, I'm this close to a hundred points. I want, I want to get a hundred points.

Like, where does that all fit in? Well, Nick, I can tell you out West. Cause I watched so so much of it there's two teams that are healthy now dallas and edmonton everybody else is banged up and some some are banged up beyond belief like you know missing five like look look at la i think 10 days ago everybody thought la could win everything now they're missing six players you look at you know You look at a team like Vegas. They've been banged up all year. They've been missing three, four, five top players. So I think health is number one.

Keeping your players healthy is number one. And number two, you've got to find a third line. You've got to find a third line that you can play against anybody, anytime, anyplace. Because if you don't have that, your first two saw, and then there's a real big disadvantage. So I think trying to put together a third line, I like what Toronto did when they had O'Reilly playing on the third line.

That was really good. You look at Edmonton's third line, they're starting to be productive. You look at Vegas' third line, they're really productive. That's what you're looking for is do we have real depth in scoring or do we just have people that can take up minutes on the ice? So, Hitch, this is a time of year where coaches have to get their players prepared to play a playoff series, and that can take a lot of meetings, I would imagine, whether it's your own structure your upcoming opponent structure the personnel what

what sort of meetings would you have with your team in the week or so leading up to a playoff series uh justin it would be before a week so it would be if we knew we were in the playoffs it'd be somewhere between two and three weeks in advance, and I would be practicing six on five every day. I would be practicing line matchups every day. So if I was thinking that in the first series there was going to be a line matchup, I would want to practice that both at home and on the road and get the players used to it because you know what happens, and Nick, you've seen this before,

when you're doing, you all of a sudden want a line match in playoffs and the players aren't used to it, they get pissed off. And they lose their edge, they lose their focus. So if you think you're going to do it, then you've got to prepare for it weeks in advance. And I'd be doing all that stuff. I wouldn't telegraph it and I wouldn't show it but if I thought I was going to change my power play to catch a little bit of

surprise early in the series I would want to do that too I'd be working on that every day but anything that you see that you're going to need in that first series, you should have an advance at 21 days before. Like, I know Jimmy there in Boston. He's been working on stuff now for two and a half, almost three weeks, getting ready for playoffs. Stuff that he hasn't pulled out of the bag yet, but he's going to pull it out when the playoffs start. Well then. Hitch, do we in the media,

whether it's a broadcast game before any playoff game, you know, you go through your matchups, you go specialty teams, goaltending, defense, physicality. Do we talk enough about playoff matchups between coaches enough and how that could be the difference getting caught on a on a line change that you didn't like those things end up being difference

makers that maybe your average fan doesn't see like last night i was talking about maybe sheldon getting caught in my opinion off of one line one line change on the game-tying goal, like Tavares, Matthews, and Nylander, something that we haven't seen too often. But, you know, regardless, my point in all of this is, as you as a coach in that position, do we give enough credit on you doing that sort of thing, lining match-ups and not getting maybe the right guys out at the right time?

And could it cost you a series or a Stanley Cup? Well, it did cost me a series very early in my coaching career. I got schooled by Scotty. And I would say it's undervalued and underappreciated and really necessary. You know, the term we use, Nick, is you've got to leave the guy coming on the ice in a good spot. And you have to practice that a lot. You know, we did a series of drills, four drills, and we do them once once a week on changes and it would be changes from a dump in changes from possession um changes from a counter attack like we would

practice that as a warm-up drill and i learned that from scotty. Scotty practiced change drills all the time. That was part of his warm-up. And I don't think the coaches that do it well enough, like one of the best coaches in the world was Joel Quenville at it. And I don't think they get near enough credit for the little sequences and little idiosyncrasies that they bring into the game when it really, really matters. And when you have a coach who makes sure his players get on the right ice at the right spot, the right places, and you can outchange a team,

you're going to control the hockey game every time. So what do you think that John Cooper, what sort of traits as a coach would define his coaching style to you? What does he do well or poorly or otherwise i think what he does well is he knows ahead of time how you're rotating your players yeah you first of all you're never going to get a match up on the road against him because he's not going to let you do it but he somehow has a way of figuring out what your rotations are whether it's where is the player sitting on the bench so he knows who's up, or does he have somebody on the bench letting him know where these guys are

coming from and when they're coming. But he doesn't get beat on change drills at all, which I think is amazing. Really amazing. God, when I played Hitch, I thought, just open the gate and let the good players go out there. And now I'm in my mid-50s, and I search for it. I want to know who's up against who. And it's like a song and dance for coaches, isn't it?

Oh, yeah, but it can wreck your team, Nick, if your players don't like that part. Like some teams can adapt. They don't want to be part of a change group. They just want to come and play. They want to continue with the flow, and they just want to go. But if you've got a team that buys into change, like you, the way that Chicago played when they won their Cups, man,

they changed so well, and they had the right players on the ice all the time. And then you see how much Joel worked at that and how he would be playing a nothing game with a month left in the season and be doing the line matchup against a team that's in last place. He was getting his team used to it long in advance of when the playoffs started i'm not asking you to throw anybody under the bus here hitch

but we've got 32 teams in the league how many coaches today would you say aren't very good at it at all or would we expect hey this is the best league in the world 32 coaches are the best 32 coaches in the world well i don't really know like i don't pay that close attention who's really good at it now or who isn't but here's what i know nick is that that term leave your player in a good spot is critical if you want to win a playoff series, because that's the small difference between winning and losing. And when you look at the coaches right now who are perennial playoff

performers and who really play well at this time of year, there's a reason. And there's a reason is because the guy gets the right players on the ice at the right time there's also a reason where it's massive confusion like how many times have you seen where there's like seven players on the ice or a guy gets caught on a change because when the game gets really emotional it's hard to keep your focus and if you haven't practiced it and then you try to use it, it never works. So to me, it's not the time to experiment.

If you've got a team and you want to have a hard match, you should have been practicing weeks ago. Okay, I'm going to take one more crack at this. In your heyday as a coach, was there a team that you had success on because you knew that you could school the other coach on line changes? Yes. Love it. That's all we needed.

Okay. In the East or the West Conference? In the West. A Canadian or American team? Get out of here, Kip. As far as you're going. Hey, Hitch, great conversation, man. I love the insight.

Thanks for doing this for us. Okay, guys, take care. Thanks, Hitch. Good, Hitchcock. See, I love that stuff. I find that fascinating. Me too. You know who used to talk about that a lot?

Mike Babcock. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And let me tell you something. To hitch his point early, I don't think the players understood it. I think it drove Austin Matthews crazy. Yeah. And it didn't work because Austin wasn't ready for that.

It's a really interesting point. And it's interesting that it's something he thought Chicago did really well. Yeah. really interesting point and it's interesting it's something he thought chicago did really well yeah so and then that whole thing about you know needing to go down there and mend a fence remember hit uh babcock got on a plane to go talk to austin and there was something some friction there yeah it had a lot to do with i think how austin was used or how he didn't adapt to what Babcock was probably trying to do. And then some nights, you know, he placed 17 and a half minutes because Babcock wanted the line changes. You know, it is funny. If you ask me, Babs has been validated in, like, a lot of things.

Like, a lot of things he said a lot have ended up looking pretty good. Tell me. I'm fascinated by what you're telling me. Talking about the line changes. Got to put the other guy in a good position. He always talked about starts, right? That was a big thing that we, I mean, that's common knowledge. That's a big thing. You know, whether

he's there? Yeah, keep going. Okay, the Marner stuff about, you know, some guys didn't work hard enough. The way he handled that with Mitch was brutal, but he wasn't wrong that some guys in the team didn't work hard enough. Komarov, pretty good player. Played him a lot. Yeah.

Pretty good player. You know, he went to New York. He's pretty good there too. Babcock won a Stanley cup. He's got the blueprint. And he worked with Quenville and Hitch and the guys we're talking about too. Alright, here's another guy that's won a Stanley Cup. Thank goodness for that. Wrote his coattails

in 1994. Steph Matteau. What's going on, buddy? Is all Masters all the time? Steph, we got you? Breaking up a little bit but they yes I am watching the master this weekend they it's one of the best tournament I've I've watched on

TV so it's always it's always fun to watch buddy love talking hockey with you but we're finishing this off with what you just said one of the best tournaments in the world we're watching it and you know I I get jealous when I hear of people that are there now. You know, tons of Canadians are down there.

They're following along. You went a step further, man. You actually got to play. And I'm like, we got to talk about this because I've never really talked to you about this at all. How did you end up golfing 18 holes in Augusta well you mentioned that scoring that goal in 94 really helped oh man it's been it's been Nick it's been incredible that goal brought me to a lot of

places including the uh at the Augusta National one my best friends, Jim Flanagan, worked at PWC for years. And one of the members, Mr. Yates, Yates or Yates is the member at Augusta. He worked at PWC in the past. Jim found out that he had a connection at the Augusta National. He emailed them years ago, and they connected. And Jim's been there for about nine years in a row now, 10 years in a row. He brought Mess, he brought Leach all the time, Brian Leach, Mark Messier. And one year, he brought me and Leach.

So I got the chance to play there. I had a chance to sleep there at one of the cottages, and one of the best day of golf. Not the best round, but one of the best experience I ever got in my life. So entering in, Magnolia Lane, where the workers go in, where were your first steps coming into the complex? We played there. We got there the day before.

We played a golf course across the street, and the grass was all yellow. And then we told the people, I said, well, we're playing Augusta National. And they looked at us like we were the gods in town. You guys are actually going to play the course tomorrow? I said, well, yeah, we're fortunate enough, but is that going to be that yellow? I said, sir, Augusta, it's the greenest place on the planet. And then we entered from the front gate. Mr. Yates was waiting with us with his hand, with his leg crossed,

and welcome to Augusta, guys. And, guys, then he took us to the room where we're sleeping. It's a shower, and then I'm going to pick you up in a golf cart limo, and then we're going to go around the golf course. So I didn't know much about the holes and the history of Augusta besides just watching it on TV. But we went through the woods, and all of a sudden we end up on that little bridge. I don't know the name of that bridge, but we – what's the name of that bridge in augusta everyone takes picture there

um is the hogan bridge is that it's hogan's bridge amen bridge or something yeah amen yeah so we end up in those say i don't even know like if it the hogan end up in those places and leach places. And Brian Leach knew all about it. So we were taking pictures, and we went around the golf course. We went to what impressed me the most. It's where they keep all their John Deere's in the back. There were like 20 or 25 or maybe even more. It looks like a brand-new John Deere dealership.

Everything looked like perfectly clean. They were probably brand new. So everything was so perfect. And we had dinner there. There was only three foursome playing that day, the next day. And the CEO of Bank of America was there. And the pitcher from the Mets, Justin Villander, was there. And that's the only three groups who were playing that day.

And the following day. Yeah, you have to have, like, providing planes to the government money type of deals. Are you allowed to take pictures? We are not allowed. We are allowed to take pictures, but I don't think we're allowed to post them on social media. Oh, okay.

We didn't do that. We took a bunch of pictures. Mr. Yates was very kind. And we played a part three in the morning. I didn't know that, but there's 12 holes. We played a part three. And when he told us if you guys were ready and said, let's go play, and the round started. So it was pretty, we played from the, we didn't play from the tips. We played from probably the blues or the whites, but it didn't matter. So it was one of the best days of golf.

What's your handicap and how do you play? What do you score at Augusta? I've heard that when it's not in tournament format, it's not the most challenging course, but I imagine still a pretty tough track. I'm about to seven handicap. I shot 78 and 42. Oh, nice.

No, 78 in the front nine and 42 in the back nine. I had a lot of, to be honest, I had a few X's. I could not finish the holes. What you see on TV, it's not what's actually what's going on on the golf course. Everything is we did a lot of, I did a few four putts. And one of the most iconic hole on 16th, part three, the caddy goes, don't miss it to the right. And obviously I missed it to the right. And obviously I miss it to the right.

And I four putt it. And I think the fifth or sixth hold, I told the caddie, because now I was a veteran, I was a member at Augusta, let me read my own putt. And I was aiming to the left. And the caddie goes, where are you going? I said, well, I think it's 10 feet to the left. He goes, if my caddie master sees me letting you putt on the left,

I'll lose my job. It's 20 feet to the right. Guys, I'm not kidding. I'm a pretty good seven handicap. I can shoot 71. The next day I can shoot 94. But to have a reach from the opposite hole, but not only the opposite hole, was 15 to 20 feet on the right.

That was impressive. The caddy said, well, you don't believe me. He grabbed one of his balls in his little jacket, he threw it, and he landed an inch from the hole going from right to left. So that was impressive. How about Brian Leach, my buddy Leachie? How'd he fare?

I don't know. I don't remember. I think he takes it more. I don't take it seriously. I love the game, but Brian takes it a lot more seriously than me. So we should ask him. He's been there many times. So I don't remember what we shot.

Well, listen, that's why he's in the Hall of Fame and me and you are talking to each other right now. Well, I was not in the Hall of Fame, but I played Augusta National. Oh, my God. You sure did, man. And, hey, Steph, really appreciate you sharing that story with us. Now I'm really, really jealous. And, man, if I could have just found a way to score a goal.

Call me, man. Come to New York. I'll take you to Wingfoot. I'll take you to Bedpage Black. We played together last summer. And I have a lot of fans, friends from the New York Rangers. They all belong to a pretty country club in New York. And I would

love to take you there. Okay, Sammy, stop drooling. Okay, it's embarrassing. So if the Rangers go find a playoff, give me a shout. I will, buddy. I will. Hey, Steph, always a pleasure having you on our show. Alright, guys, have a good day. Thanks, Steph. That's two-time double overtime

Steph Matteau. I've told the story before, and I think I've told in this show about Clark Illies and taking me out my first time with him, if I ever told about going to beth page so he comes home from a tournament again on like a thursday night he's like he's been out you know what i mean yeah he comes back he's like tomorrow we're gonna play golf i'm like it's like my first night ever spending the night at the ghillie so i'm sleeping in his daughter's bed like we're 26 but i'm still in the ghillie's house sleeping in his daughter's room it's a little weird he's like we'll go golfing tomorrow morning beth page black i'm like oh my god 6 a.m maybe a

little before he pokes his head in the room hey you know okay i'm ready to go i'm up i'm out and as we're walking out to the car he's like you got running shoes because i usually borrow his stuff and i was like i guess i have running shoes why and he's like yeah just grab them you know so we go outside it's raining. We're still going to go. And he goes, appreciate you doing this today. I was like,

what? He's like, caddying for me. What? Caddying for you. So we get to the course. And so he, I grab his clubs and he goes,

okay, James's are over there. Who's James? What are you talking about? I'm carrying two, I'm carrying two sets of clubs. So I'm standing on the T of a course. I've seen my whole life and dying to play

and waiting for everyone to hit. And he goes, what are you doing? I don't know. He goes, you go out there. So you're right. You're a four caddy. So I got to traipse out there, two bags in the rain and stand there and look for balls and ankle high rough at Bethpage Black. Four and a half hours.

And they're playing wing foot after. And he goes, you want to carry a wing foot too? I was like, you someone else for wing busy yeah so i've walked uh beth page i've yet to play it wow that's amazing the other horses i have is pebble beach you paid pebble oh yeah twice it's only 600 bucks around 700 or something would have paid a thousand oh yeah oh yeah yeah yeah how'd you hit it uh probably mid 80s okay yeah and it was the you could go to a lot of courses in the world i've seen your game you're gonna shoot mid 80s a lot of places you go the game travels hey it's the best six hours you could oh really everybody takes pictures oh yeah nobody's in a rush well you pay that kind of money you're like take your time out there

spectacular yeah it's beautiful all right so back to the real world good for matto by the way for not taking it very seriously and being a seven that's uh it's pretty decent uh also massive tree down at augusta yeah do you see that i was trying to show you that video here so yeah look at this so right behind sergio here in the background if it falls on people or not boom i know yeah so really hoping that no one got it looks like there's some people in the path of the fallen tree i can tell you that's a large tree that came down pretty scary stuff to be honest now is it because the winds are so high i think so yeah blowing like It's blowing like crazy.

Well, they got to get them off the course. Suspended. It is suspended again? Yes, sir. Yeah, that's the right thing to do. So, you guys want to do some questions? Sure. So, this isn't a question, but this is something that you wanted to talk about and you didn't

get to in the first segment, and it's a statement from George in Oakville, who texts in all the time. Please fix the power play. It's the same old, same exclamation point this is now the third or fourth year in a row where the power play has been a concern at the end of the season and i hope it doesn't carry on in the first round. Yeah, and me too. So what are they doing today? What's Sheldon doing today? Well, they're off from Boston.

Besides flying back from Boston to fix his power play. You know, watching a lot of video, I imagine, and trying to figure out what's going on. You know, is it entries? Are they having trouble getting set up? Is it puck movement? Is it, you know, the other team's defending them well? Is it Matthews too much?

I know they do get rotations and they try to get movement, but every time I look up, Matthews is on his strong side. They're on different sides a lot. I feel like they move around. Yeah, but it doesn't matter to me because they're on different sides a lot i feel like they move around enough yeah but it doesn't matter to me because they're in the same places like they're in a one three one and it can be whichever guy but it doesn't make that much of a difference like it it does make a difference if it's a marner or matthews because they obviously have big preferences but you can

see that pretty quick as a defense i don't know you know just it's too late to fix to come up with something new outside of saying maybe we'll use the low play more the high play more do you do uh does four games give enough time for a guy like Gustafson's pickup is to have an option for the power play? You know, it's crazy to think that they took Morgan Riley off the power play and had Rasmus Sandin run it. Two years ago. Two years ago. Is that the next step here in the next three games to do the same thing and then put in Gustafson? That's his strength you know this the disappointing games here on the power play might be impetus for them to say let's

just get gus running pp1 for two of these next four games just so he has a feel for it just in case also you know if we feel like shen is struggling shen's struggling that all of a sudden you can swap gus in for him and then you got a pp option like come game three or something that might be the uh the fix the only issue we don't need one only issue is that is that you again you're robin peter to pay paul because you've got you're playing the the number one uh aggressive team in the national hockey league like tampa bay is not gonna get in a running gun with the toronto maple leafs they are gonna slow you down they're gonna hit you they're gonna scrum you they're gonna piss you off you need shannon i think just from that you know and this is a conversation that a lot of people have had and that they've had but

you also then need a power play that can make them pay so they don't feel like they can do whatever they want last year the toronto maple leafs took 12 penalty minutes more than 12 penalty minutes per game in round one which is not their game at all they're not that team they got lured in they got lured in they played that element of tampa's game great special teams that they have and love the physical stuff need to be able to make them feel like it can't be a special teams trade-off series what did you think of uh uh the trade-off on the uh lafferty hit uh along the on the along the walls and then getting challenged by greer i thought it was fine all around i thought the hit was greasy but fine yeah i thought you know

the guy fighting him for the greasiness is fine. I thought him standing in there was fine. Fine all around. I was a little surprised that he got too instigating. I think they're trying to do that a lot. I think that's a new effort. I think you're right. I think you're right. And I think when I saw how quick Lafferty dropped his gloves,

I thought it was borderline, i want to avenge my that hit i'm offering you a chance to fight me do you accept and lafferty got his gloves off quickly and it was like yes i accept to me if two guys fight somebody has to be a little bit of an aggressor or at least initiate a challenge does that automatically give you the aggressor now yeah i forget where i saw this if it was in the athletic or on our broadcast or where but since the gm meetings i think there's been a real effort that fights after clean hits are being met with a two-minute instigator for whoever comes in and that which i think is a good message to send well listen in the playoffs if it automatically if you

if you go and fight or challenge somebody to a fight it's not worth it that's your power play could make or break you so yeah if that's the case i wonder how the players feel about that yeah but i mean we've talked a lot about they're trying to find solutions to this fighting after clean hit stuff i don't think it's much of a crisis myself yeah just one note on the power play i mean it was like almost yesterday we're talking about edmonton and toronto uh one two on the power play uh the Leafs have sunk to fourth. And Colorado's on their heels. Dallas is on their heels.

Like, it's going down the wrong way. It's heading the wrong way. It's trending in the wrong direction. That's another reason to kind of focus on the four games. ESPN reporting no injuries on the tree falling at Augusta. They're showing it now on the broadcast. If you look up to your, it is a massive tree. Jeez, and it's on a hole.

Is it in the middle of a hole? Yeah, it's right over the 16th or the 17th tee box. You got to hit a wedge over it to start. This is like when in Happy Gilmore, there was the TV tower fell on the line. Are they going to be like some of the courses opening up where tomorrow they're only playing like 15 holes? Yeah. You got to win the Masters.

Team it up from in front of the tee tomorrow? Okay, quick one here. In front of the tree? Quick one. Are they going to get that thing cleaned up? Oh, my God. Are you kidding me? They've got someone that lives underground that's just going to pull it on them.

They've got the 12th and the 20th. John Deere's. Yeah, they're sending out the army of John Deere's. Some guy's been waiting for this his whole career. This is his big moment. I love Mattos. Like, the thing that impressed me the most. Was the John Deere's, yeah.

Was the dealership. This is, if you're the number one seed in the West, which wildcard two team between Winnipeg, Calgary, and Nashville do you want to play? And which do you least want to play? You know who I want to play is Nashville because they suck. That's my take, Preds. Where are the Preds fans at?

I've been saying that about them. I'm sorry, but they're still really in it. They're extremely in it. Very alive. They traded away Ekholm, Janot, Granlund. They got no one who can score, no one who can defend, and a really good goalie.

They give up like the 30th most chances against per game. I'll take my chances on Soros at that point. Yeah, if you're the top seed, who is the top seed right now? Vegas. Vegas, you don't care. Maybe just go to all three of them and say, you're not that good at hockey. Let's just try to draw straws or something.

Like Hellebuck, Markstrom, and Saros, though, like three pretty good eight-seed goalies. Yeah, it's, yeah. Your mileage may vary on Markstrom in that conversation. I don't think you're sweating too much anyway. Tomorrow night, Nashville and Winnipeg. Yeah. There's your season right there.

Everyone's like, should we add teams to the playoffs and this year it's like maybe maybe we'll just have winnipeg and calgary for nashville um last quick one with brian boyle this is from warrior womp on youtube with brian boyle joining the nhl network of the studio analysts it made me think this question in the next 10 years who would you like to see on this Leafs team become a commentator? Morgan Rielly. I think Morgan Rielly is the smartest, funniest guy on that team. Okay. And the guy who maybe talks the least.

He talks a bit. To the media. Yeah, he doesn't say much. Broadcasting. Samsonov. It ain't any of the good players. Ilya Samsonov. It ain't any of the good players. Ilya Samsonov. I think my pick would be Tavares.

Oh, my God. Well, it's certainly going to be a great match. Obviously a real honor for me to be on this broadcast. I'm just happy to be here. He's just safe. Probably not Mitch. I don't think he has any interest. Maybe if he were.

Yeah. I can see it. No, not so much for you. No. Not Brody. I don't think I've heard Brody say three words since he's been here. May not be on the team. He's a mystery, right?

Remember he was on All or Nothing. He was in no episodes for no seconds he doesn't speak no he doesn't speak doesn't speak which i mean there's been never been a more under the radar top pairing free agent signing in the history of toronto in 22 minutes he can he can yeah he can chew the fat yeah he can dial it up a little bit for sure all right for sure all right there you go. That's it. That's it.

Habs leaves tomorrow night. Catch the fever. Hey, fun show today. Doug McClain, Ken Hitchcock, and Steph Mateau talking Augusta National. Yeah, right. We just talked golf for 20 minutes. Loved it. Our thanks to all of you being on the show all week.

Give us a rating and review if you get a chance. Love. Real Kipper and Bourne in front of all of you. Have a great weekend.