Real Kyper & Bourne - Off-The-Rails Rundown with Doug MacLean & Stellicktricity

Episode Date: November 18, 2023

Gord Stellick joins Nick Kypreos & Sam McKee for the hour, and they start with Doug MacLean (2:31) for his Off-the-Rails Friday appearance! Doug starts with takeaways from the Leafs' win over the Red Wings in Sweden, the Canucks' turn-around with Tocchet, Gaudreau and Laine getting benched in Columbus and potential changes coming to 3v3 OT rules. Later, a look at Bedard's on-ice confrontation with Matthew Tkachuk and how the more slender rookie is handling the physical aspect of the NHL. Finally, they wrap with a chat on what extension numbers might look like for William Nylander & Elias Pettersson, the best contract in the league and Patrick Kane landing spots.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

it's the real kipper and born show we are live on sports net sports net 650 in vancouver and sports net 960 in calgary this hour of real kipper and born brought to you by bet 365 in for justin born let's welcome in former general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yes, that is Stelic-tricity, you hear. Gord Stelic joining Sammy McKee and I. Gordo, thanks for coming in, pal. Changing on the fly. I like it.

I like it. Just it out. Didn't cut the mustard. I'm here. I'm ready. I'm ready. Showtime. Closer, baby.

Showtime. That's it. That is awesome. We are just completed the second leg of the global series in Stockholm, Sweden, where William Nylander extended his point streak to 16 games as the Leafs rallied back on the Red Wings. That was a game, Gord, that didn't show much promise in the first 40 minutes, but it was a heck of a finish. Kippy, Stockholm Syndrome.

Remember the Stockholm Syndrome? First 40 minutes, they're holed up at a bank vault, and all the cops are outside, and they got the hostages, and that was kind of it. It was just that kind of siege mentality. Nothing was going on, and then the last 20 minutes, you know what, they're finding ways to win games. Maybe it won't work in the playoffs, but they're finding ways to win games maybe it won't work in the playoffs but they're finding ways to work game that was pretty entertaining so we call

this segment of our show uh off the rails friday and it's it's led by doug mcclain because that's what usually happens is he drives it into the ditch but you know this one has a chance to really fall off because Gord Stelic has got a new book out called Revival. Yes. With Damien Cox. And it's a journey through the Toronto Maple Leafs in the late 70s when they advanced and beat Justin Bourne's father-in-law. The big series against the New York Islanders. Clark Gillies and the Islanders.

Yeah. And it came because last year when Boria visited, how iconic he is. And Tiger Williams, Lanny McDonald, Daryl Siller, Boria are still great friends all these years later. So anyway, that precipitated the book. And I just go by bookstores now and I put it over Doug McClain's book. You know how you do that? You did that with Kipper, right? You stop by and you front your book, right?

Listen. Guerrilla Warfare. I don't have the heart to tell him that your books knocked him off the bestsellers list, so... Well, that's not tell. Let's keep it quiet. Let's keep it quiet. Alright, let's welcome in the author of Draft Day,

Doug McClain. Hopefully you didn't hear that intro. Just, excuse me, a bulletin. I have a bulletin. The Toronto Star total nonfiction Canada and the U.S. Number 10 draft day. Wow. Excellent. Canadian nonfiction Globe and Mail Toronto, number three draft day. So, Gord, I wish you good luck on yours.

But seven weeks in a row in the bestseller, I don't know. Ours just got out. We gave you a lead. That's all, Doug. I'm like Secretariat now coming down the stretch here. Hey, we're going to support each other. Struggling Canadian board authors, two great reads to get for Christmas. How about that, Doug?

I agree. I think anything with Damien Cox and you, I would rush out to buy it. Can I get it down here at Costco or where? Actually, I'll drive by your house and flag me down, okay? I got about 10 in my trunk. You know what? Good luck on that, Gordon. In all seriousness, doing that interview with you on Sirius there in the morning gave us the greatest start you could ever have.

There you go. And we really appreciate it, and I loved it. Okay. Well, it was fun. Fun having Doug in and talking all about his book, Kipper. But I have a question. Did the Leafs win the Carrelli Cup tonight? It had to be the carrielli cup which we all used to go to sweden for for the european

in-season championship did they win it because you guys were on a high oh my god it was the greatest win in the history of hockey okay so give us your rundown of what you witnessed today there. Expert. Well, I witnessed Sam being all excited about Borya Salmi coming in and talking to the team. Oh, his son. His son.

Matt Sundin came in and it was Borya's son who dropped the puck. No, no, Matt Sundin is who I mentioned. Did you watch the game? And it was Boria's son who dropped the puck. His son, Anders. Matt's son, Dean. Did you watch the game? I've been thinking a lot about Boria because of the going back after the, you know, the situation last year with the Hall of Fame and Daryl Sittler and everything with Boria. And seeing the movie and so on. So it's really been a really trying time for everybody over there.

So it was great to see a big win today. Maybe a good explanation of why they started off so slow. And it was one of those games where it was, you really thought at the time that maybe one or one goal would be enough. The first one would win, but it must be hard for coaches, thought at the time that maybe one or one goal would be enough the first one would win but uh it must be hard for coaches general managers to to to take a team over there in a short period of time and get them ready mac yeah it's it's not easy you know the whole situation over there

isn't easy but look they didn't play great but once the big boys started to come alive in the third period i i thought tavaris line was good the entire game but marner took another step in the third period had a great third period made a couple of big plays and and the energy just took off from marner kneelander uh tavaris was terrific what What about Tavares? 68% on face-offs. He gets kicked out of the face-off. Tell you how good Nylander is. He goes in and wins the face-off and then scores. And you know what?

I got to tell you, Bertuzzi gave them a good third period, a really good third period tonight. And that was encouraging for the Leafs to see. So, Doug, how do you balance as a coach? Okay, they had a three-goal lead against Calgary. They blew it, but they won the game. Again, they had to come from behind. They were behind last Saturday, took some penalties, but beat Vancouver.

The end result, you want to win, obviously. And they're getting that. They're finding ways. But the fact that it's kind of choppy and uneven and how they do it, how much does that concern you? Well, with the blue line they have, and albeit there's a couple of guys in the lineup that probably won't be there,

maybe a few guys in the lineup that won't be there if they can make a couple of trades. I think with this blue line, you're going to have a lot of games like that. You are going to have games like that where you're giving up chances, you're going to have a lot of games like that. You are going to have games like that where you're giving up chances. You're giving up big plays. You're giving up coverage around the net. You're just not. And I talked about it on Nick Showico. They're just not good enough on the back end right now. And they've got to address it. They've got to get better if they're going to have

success. But as a forward group, they can make up for a lot, especially with the way they played in the third period. We're joined by Doug McClain, famous author of the book, Draft Day, What It Takes to Win. Is that right? Did I say that okay? No, but it's, you know what, that's all I need. I mean, there's so much, like the way the books are flying off the shelves,

we don't need a lot more publicity. We want to tone down a little bit if we can, you know. You're going to be writing soon about the Vancouver Canucks and the turnaround of their season so far. I know a bit of a hiccup the other night but come on sitting at the top of the western conference who saw that well i'll tell you what uh petterson and use uh you know they and miller they've been so good demko who who come back from missing uh you know tough year last year i mean he has that good. He's played great.

That big three and that team has been real good, plus Demko. They look real good right now. They're not an easy team to beat. Will they come back to earth? Probably they will. Do you ever feed your dog? Yeah, somebody must have came to the door or he's excited. Are you sure it's a dog?

I think it's a parent. A national TV. And he thought I was fired and out of that business. So he sort of caught off guard. So, okay. You know, one thing about Vancouver, you've been in, we've all been in a lot of different situations. Fundamental.

And we like Jimmy Rutherford a lot. But last year it shows, get rid of, like, when you're in the best organizations have no white noise around them, right? Vancouver had the most white noise in the league last year, and they hardly have any this year, and that allows the guys to play and perform. You're part of the white noise in Toronto. No, no, no. What are you talking about?

No, no, the media not. I'm talking about within. You create your own stuff. We can make all the white noise in Toronto. No, no, no. What are you talking about? No, no, the media not. I'm talking about within. You create your own stuff. We can make all the white noise we want. No one's a bigger part than you are with white noise. You and Kip are going back and forth. But within an organization, to start off saying, I don't like the way the training camp's going,

the coaches on tenderhooks, all this kind of stuff, you know, which player's going to go, got to get rid of Bo Horvat. Like, it just shows that players want to focus on stuff inside the dressing room, particularly in the big Canadian markets. Didn't they tell Bruce Boudreau that they were giving him a 20-game evaluation at the start of the season or something crazy? Like, it was the craziest.

I mean, Bruce Boudreau was on watch longer than any coach in the history of hockey as to when he was getting fired. It was a joke. You're right. It was a joke. I think maybe Patrick Allen found his way as a GM and maybe has taken charge a little bit. I think Jimmy Rutherford obviously was instrumental in bringing Tauket in, calmed things down. You look at their assistant coach, Adam Foote, they're a solid guy. They've got some real good hockey people

on their coaching staff. I think they really did a nice job solidifying things. And then you look at Patterson. Nick and I talked years ago. He looked like Dad's soup three years ago when Travis Green was there. Hughes is one of the greatest young defensemen to come along in a long time.

And as I mentioned, Demko Miller seems to finally not be pouting or whatever his problem has been. I don't know. Besser, where did Besser come from? They couldn't find him. So all of a sudden, there's a lot of really good things happening there. And I suspect talking is a huge part of it so you get

to look like a genius when you're uh when your star players show up uh one general manager uh that isn't getting that is uh yarmo in columbus wow and correct me if i'm wrong but it was baba bobblehead night for john Hockey, Johnny Goudreau? As I said last night, as I said last night, Johnny Goudreau has one goal and it's an empty net goal. And they have bobblehead night. Wouldn't you have

thought that we'll postpone that till he gets two or three goals? I said yesterday that Johnny Goudreau bobble night was a bigger joke than when i was coaching florida and the bobble night was jeff rimmer bobblehead night like i said what when we had no players we can get to jeff bobblehead night so can you can you you take the Johnny Goudreau one and get for like a buck,

get it nailed to a bench or something? You know, just to be... But listen, tell me I'm dreaming here. So it's a 1-1 game, and then it goes to 3-1. The last nine and a half minutes, the coach Pascal, coach Pascal, puts Johnny Goudreau and Laine on the bench for the last nine and a half minutes, the coach Pascal, Coach Pascal puts Johnny Goudreau and Line A on the

bench for the last nine and a half minutes of the game. And I'm thinking, just a minute, Pascal, that's $20 million almost of your salary cap that you plunked on the bench tonight. What you do with star players, and I've've said this i don't know how many times take a power play away from them take a couple of shifts away from them but to put 20 million on the bench and you think you're gonna win that as a first year nhl coach i'm sorry i don't get it listen it was almost as if yararmul was on the hot seat the moment you found out that he had to get rid of Babcock here. How long do they go here, Mac?

And if you have to look at that lineup yet again and regroup, I mean, don't you have to make some hard decisions now in Columbus? Yeah, like it's really tough. I feel for them. It's really tough. I mean, J.D. is, you know, J.D. and Kekulainen walked out of that meeting where their jobs were basically told in that press conference that their jobs, they're on the clock.

Kekulainen has come out and said, you know, we're going to make the playoffs. We're a playoff team. I don't know what's going to take place. You end up with Babcock leaving amid, like, the craziest scenario you could ever imagine. Didn't surprise me, but it was the craziest scenario ever. And then they have to put the assistant coach in, who I hear is a solid guy, solid coach. But this is a lot to ask when your jobs are on the line. And, I mean, if I'm Ketelainen walking from my –

well, I used to sit in the press box. Apparently they all sit in private suites now. When I'm walking from my private suite down to the dressing room, I'm a little worried about my job and about the team making the playoffs. Just quickly before you jump in here, Gordon, you know, no one knows that market in Columbus better than you. I mean, is there a risk that the people just will get frustrated to the point where they just stop showing up? Well, I'll tell you what what the fans have been have been unbelievable they have been such a good supportive group from day one um they are terrific the fans

they really are but they are really upset right now and i've talked to some people in columbus today they are really ticked off and they they're calling for people's heads right now. And, you know, the frustrating thing is when you've got the young top pick, Fantilli, when is he going to say, I want Eddie here? That's the problem you're up against is you can't continually have your top players asking to leave town um look i i don't know what gives here but they've got to figure it out i mean it's year 24 i mean i was

there the first seven or eight years i mean i had an excuse didn't i this is year 24 so another one yeah they've not been the same since doug mcclain's left we'll absolutely say that the columbus blue jackets but you know it's an interesting line about the font the fans starting to turn and how would you characterize with the new york islanders because you know the fans first of all they got their arena finally okay so hallelujah they lived off that they could be venomous towards john taveras for leaving for a couple years. And they're a place people want to stay. They don't leave. Like, guys re-up to stay there, by and large.

But they're getting a little restless. I mean, is the Islander team got to figure out, do we have a real chance to win, or we have to look at maybe retooling? Who's going to break that news to Lou that we think he should rebuild at 81?

He did it with the Toronto Maple Leafs, his last place. Yeah, but he was only 77. He looks better now. Losing great health, he looks better now. He always does the right thing. Come on, you can't. What's his age got to do with whether you rebuild or stay in the course? Have you listened to Joe Biden lately?

I've listened to Joe Biden, but have you listened to the Islander fans lately? And, you know, starting to turn a little bit in that regard. No, they get a little extra time because they went through Milbury. That's what they said about me in Columbus. All roads go back to you in Columbus. Every team goes back to Doug McClain in Columbus. As I said to somebody today, I don't remember anybody asking to be traded when I was a GM there.

David Byborny, Ray Whitney, none of those guys ever asked, demanded, demanded to be traded. Hey, apparently the, the national hockey league's got some major work to do, fixing the three-on-three in overtime. Are they going to call you and get your advice on that? Oh, my God. I get such a chuckle.

I was in the meeting, both the Board of Governors and the GM's meeting when the three-on-three was approved. I was actually sitting there. And I'll never forget, Mike Gillidge and Jimmy DeVolano adamantly, you know, really wanted nothing to do with the shootout, three-on-three. It was just they were dead against it. And I'm thinking, what is going to come? And then as I watch it, I get excited about three on three. I get excited about watching it. And now it's like, are you kidding me?

It has become a joke. It is, as you said, it's not hockey. It's a farce. It's regroup. Then you change and then you regroup and then you change. I then you regroup, and then you change. I mean, it has become a circus. I don't blame them for wanting to change it. But what are they going to do?

Now put a bunch of rules in that you can't regroup? Come on. No, but wait a second. It's exciting, and it gets the results. Okay, we don't have ties. So, you know, you could have things like the bench can be, instead of the far change, you could have the close change. You could have the thing that if you, once you go inside the blue line,

you can't take it back out or it gets a whistle. You could have a clock about, hey, baseball put a clock in, and they sped up the time of the game. And it was, like, I'm open to ideas because, you know, it is exciting. People like it. Okay, maybe it's gimmicky, but in the regular season, people like it. Well, I think they should try the three-second clock from basketball first.

See if we can put that in. Three seconds in the key. Okay, we got that one down. Nobody is allowed to go in the slot area. You're only allowed in there for three seconds, and then you got to re regroup. Oh my God. I don't even, you know what, I don't care what they do with it. I don't care

what they do with it. They'll figure it out. They're really good at setting up committees and, you know, they'll have 25 people in this committee to work on the three-on-three and then they'll come up with a good strategy. Do you recall what led us to this to begin with?

Was it the fact that just strictly we didn't like ties anymore or we weren't giving the customer value for three periods? They weren't entertained enough. We need something else. Where did this all start? Can you check the 95, 96 Florida Panthers? I think we had 26 ties in that season. But that's where it started.

That's where it started. No, I mean about ties. Like that was the genesis of it all. Yeah. But then we had the big discussion about should we award more you know a half a point or a point and you know try that and no but just no but but doug okay they always want a result and then when the lockout ended and the league won not only did gary bevin announce the end of the lockout and it goes by the way here's 30 other things. You know, bang, bang, bang.

And they were all because they got their way to put whatever they wanted to try, and that's been in place ever since. Yeah. You know? No, look, I think they've got to come up with something. I loved the three-on-three a couple of years ago. I was 100. I loved it.

But as I watch it this year, it started to hit me that it's become, you know, why would anybody be surprised? You coach for it now. You've got to coach for it. So what happens? The coaches, the 12 coaches on the team work about how are we going to do this, and they've come up with the whole regroup strategy so you never lose the puck for the whole five minutes.

You know, you just regroup, regroup, change. You know, it's masterful how the coaches can come up with these strategies. And now they've got to outdo the coaches again. All right. Anything else you want to spill off your chest and all that heat in Florida right now? Or are you good? Has your book moved up the ranks since we talked? I don't know. Somebody told me yesterday it's selling off the shelves, so

I don't know what's going on. You better get more security. You better get more security at the bookstores. Or they're just removing them off the shelves. Did I hear you say that while I was listening before I come on that Bertuzzi's pass will change his season,

that one pass he made in the slot. I think it's got a chance to rally him a little bit. Yes, I do. You don't? Well, I think what would rally him more than that one little pass, which was a nice play and I was really happy for him, was playing with Tavares and Nylander. I think that will be a plus for him, don't you? But it didn't work with Matthews and Marner so much,

so obviously there seems to be some kind of chemistry, so I agree. I mean, obviously Nick's success he's talking about is predicated a lot on staying with that line, right? I would say so right now. You know what I love about the line is Tavares makes a lot of things happen around the paint with his game. And he gets the puck to the slot area, and if this kid will just go and bang and do a job,

I mean, he hasn't been very good, and that was a big game for him. And Nylander has been so good. And Tavares was real good today, guys. Real good today. So, you know, even in the first two periods when everybody else was not that good, that line was real good. All right, well, let's get back to your parent or your dog. Like, if you hit certain sales, can you buy your dog a new bark?

Like, a deeper one? By the way, his name is Newman. Okay, Newman. All right. Say hi to Newman for us. Take care, guys. All right. See you, Doug.

Doug McClain. Author of Draft Day and How to Pick Winners or Get Left Behind. All right. We're going to take a look. What? What are you looking at me for? Nothing. You just, when his dog started barking, you looked over at me. I locked eyes.

I thought it was a parent. I wasn't sure. Like, you always get worried, is it a grandchild or something? Like, I had that once on radio. I said to someone about their dog, and it was a newborn. Yeah. You got to be careful. I don't even know where to go for that one.

I didn't either. There's a clip of you from the morning show all those years back. Theo, pick gotta be careful. I don't even know where to go for that. I didn't either. There's a clip of you from the morning show. All those years back. Theo, pick up your clothes. We'll leave that one buried. Okay. All right.

We're going to take a quick break and more with real Kipper and born and Gord Stelic after these words. We'll be right back. Your daily dose of everything NFL. It's the Fan Checkdown with Matt Marchese and Donovan Bennett. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back. Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Special co-host Gord Stelic, as JB gets ready for a stint on television tonight.

Terrific job, by the way. You know, I catch you every once in a while in the morning and sometimes with you and Steve Koulias. Yeah. You know, every broadcast that Steve Koulias does should be brought to you by Tylenol. That's about it. Well, NHL Network Radio, Sirius XM, Channel 91.

So I appreciate that. So fun hockey show. Have you done your read you're supposed to do? You just did it, right? No, no. I got to do it. We got to do it. Then I'll ask.

See, you're good on the ins and outs, right? It's not as easy sitting in that chair right i have every time i start this show i'm like i'm way over my skis right now gordy the amount he has improved from the start till now he is smooth he's a smooth animal now but it used to be like the intro and extra the person they called them like bingo callers right they're talking heads you know kind of thing but no it's hard It's hard to be in that seat and control all that stuff, you know? It's like an air traffic controller. So

probably a plane or two has crashed on your watch, but I've had the same thing. I just mean that. When Sammy's at his best and he really upsets me with what he's saying, then I can shut down everything else and just find out ways why I think he's, like, out in left field. i know you got to

get the reads in all right okay it's actually me that doesn't know okay it's game time presented by bet 365 visit the app the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at bet 365 must be 19 plus ontario only please play responsibly and since we have you here gourd um okay i was going through because sometimes i do games the night of but I was just looking through the NHL futures for the trophies and some of the favorites for the trophies at the end of the year. So I'm just asking you if the favorite to you, if there's any value in somebody else, the favorite for the Calder,

the rookie of the year is obviously Conor Bedard, heavy favorite. Correct. The next two are Logan Cooley at eight to one and Luke Hughes at 16 to one. Is there, can you see any world where it's not Conor Bedard? No. Can't. Kipper? You watch him last night? Not a chance. Quiet.

I know, but he's still going to find a way to keep probably a 45-50 goal pace for the next month and a half, and then if he drops a little bit, he'll end up with his 35-37 goals.

Was it Gretzky that said he looked better than he expected him to hear him say that? So that was nice. That's a nice compliment to get from Gretzky. So the Hart Memorial Trophy, the favorite is Connor McDavid, which I think we've mentioned here before, but Austin Matthews with a close second, Jack Hughes at plus 550, Pasternak, Elias Pettersson,

Kucherov, and McKinnon would round out the top there. So anyone underneath there that you think is interesting? Pettersson at 10 to 1? Oh, I think all kinds. Again, I don't know. McDavid being 100% or not, like whatever the deal is, let's face it, Austin Matthews took advantage of a bit of an off year

and a hurt year, and he won it. Otherwise, it's McDavid's trophy every year. But I think this year, Kippy, you start with the Vancouver gang for starters. And, yeah, I think there's an Austin Matthews. Again, there's a lot of names in the mix. I threw out Sid's name the other day. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Underrated Sidney Crosby. He is 100 to 1. Well, that's, you know, I know they lost yesterday, but they had won, got on a bit of a tearby and there's a hundred to one well that's you know i know they lost yesterday but they had one got on a bit of a tear and he's the guy yeah you know what they were talking you know and i think we expect jack hughes to be back in the lineup soon oh yeah yeah they won yesterday without him and that's a big reason the vancouver guys i'm not saying are leading now in scoring because i mean jack hughes was the guy before he got hurt but all those uh other canucks

now are and uh just looking down the list a little bit william neilander 40 to 1 there's only three guys in the league without uh with more points than him and they're all in vancouver uh jack adams of the runaway favorite right now is rick tocket any any you know bruce cassie's up there derrick alone for some reasons close up there rob rob rindemore jared bednar but rick tocket to me if they keep this up. Nobody mentioned, like, Jim Montgomery. Yeah, he's down the list a little bit. Yeah, but why? Why?

I think it's hard to win it two years in a row. He won last year going away. I don't care. Everybody thought they were going to be missing the playoffs this year. This is the year you acknowledge them. And Kevin Paul DuPont had a stat that last year, they had a phenomenal year, and they averaged eight minutes a game that they played um they had a phenomenal year yeah and and they were um they

averaged eight minutes a game that they played behind okay now it's six minutes yeah so they're even like like like they're even better than they're ridiculous and also let's throw labulet in new york where's he labulet is down the list a little bit here i'm just looking for him and dallas we got some good coaches uh yeah both 14 toer. DeBoer is 14-1. Pete DeBoer and Dallas. Both 14-1. So I think the job that LaViolette's doing, obviously, they're humming right now. Hold on. One more on coaches.

Yeah, what do you got? Paul Maurice. Because they're getting Ekblad back. Yeah. And Montour. Paul Maurice is way down there, 25-1. But they've... They've been on a tear.

They lost 2-1 to Los Angeles last night, but they've been on a tear. They won five in a row before that. So, I mean, how does he not get any love? Totally. So the other ones quickly are the Norris. Quinn Hughes is a runaway favorite at the moment. Kel McCart a little bit behind him there,

and then it's Rasmus Dallin, then it goes way up. So I think that's pretty much the three guys that could win it there. Rocket Richard, Matthews is the heavy favorite. Pasternak, Connor McDavid breathing it down his throat. throat and the vesna is sorokin ottinger and demko are the three top favorites as far as the rocket richard gourd every year ovi in the mixed yeah yeah have you seen enough to say this is now we are now witnessing uh the downfall even if he scores 30 goals which would be fine for a guy his age without wear and tear over the years to safely get to a gretzky

record in two plus years well or next late next year i mean, where do you see Ovi moving forward? So, I mean, Backstrom had been out before. So it's not like it's totally because Backstrom's not healthy, that Ovi's not scoring at the same kind of rate. And the Capitals have played better of late. So it's not like they're getting killed and Ovi's not scoring. They've actually played better of late, got some wins, but Ovi hasn't been the factor.

So, yeah, the guy's only human. And I think it's the last couple of years. And, Sammy, you cited Wayne Gretzky. And one thing, Wayne, when he talks about the record, he said Ovi's had a way of being healthy. Phenomenal ability to be healthy. And he's a very physical player. But all of a sudden, yeah, you're starting to see that.

And now the assumption that he was going to get that record is not quite as clear. No, I think there's a little bit more doubt than there was last year. Anyways, that was game two. About the record? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that big of a drop-off?

People are bailing out on him? Oh, no, no. But, I mean, at this particular pace right now, he's at a snail's pace right now. Yeah, I know. I know. But he's still going to. I think he's still on pace for almost 30 goals. Is not he's only got four okay what did you get in math well i i've never said that he's gonna break it he's only played like 14 15 games okay so times

five 20 25 okay he is an athlete how many did you say? You said 20 or 30. I said 25, 30. Okay. Well, good thing Bet365. He's on pace for 23. Okay. But I got him at 30. I'll get him at 27 to 30 goals. Wow.

Another guy like Josh Morrissey, when you're talking Norse. You know? I don't want to pick. Throw him a ball. Throw him a ball. So, can I ask you a question? Yeah. Let me just get us out of here, and then we can go ahead.

That was Game Time, presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at bet365 must be 19 plus ontario only please play responsibly see earlier in the year i kind of run over him on the out of that yeah and i got in trouble okay well this is my anyway this is my first time so i'll be good i. I'll be good. So, Conor Bedard, who we all agree is going to win the Calder Shofie. So, that word, the code,

it's a bit of a dramatic word, but just you being the former player and, of course, 2023 version. So, it was against Florida, right, where he got hit? Yes.

Teammates stood up for him. Yeah. All good. Now, earlier, Marchand had kind of given him the, you know, like the kind of push again. Yeah, I saw that.

So, all of a sudden, this one kachucks there. Okay? Right in Bedard's face. Now, he's obviously not expecting him to fight. Okay, obviously. They don't, you know. But is he just telling him, you're going to have to stand up for yourself or we're going to hit the crap out of you?

Or, like, what kind of message is he giving back? Because this guy's just being a nice 18 nice 18 year old kid standing there and whatever, and his teammates are sticking up and he's going to be a big asset for the league. Like the Kachuk brothers are what's Kachuk saying to him. I think there's a little bit of that, that, you know,

take it easy. Not tonight. You're going to be great, but not, not on our watch tonight. And we're going to hit you. We and we're gonna hit you we're gonna still hit you they're not worried about hitting him and they're not worried about any repercussions out of chicago so you know that's just he's he doesn't seem phased by it and i know the hit in

florida he got up rather quickly you know he's not a guy that wants to lay on the ice and and yeah be over dramatic on anything and i think at with his size over his career that he's probably dealt with it in the past and it's just part of doing business for him he's gonna score a lot of goals and maybe take a few hits still until chicago finds a little bit more help for him. But I've loved everything about him so far. Absolutely. At first blush, when

Kachuk went up to him, I was like, ah, what's Kachuk doing? Why is he doing that? He's eligible to be chirped. He's on the ice. He's in the NHL. Just because he's a young guy, it's like, I think you're I know they probably don't like seeing that, but I kind of changed my thought on it when I, when I first thought, I thought it was kind of

classless from Kachuk, but then I kind of was like, he's eligible to be hit and chirped. And he's a young guy. It doesn't matter. Yeah. And listen, there's already enough love around the league. I've never, sometimes it makes me sick. Well, Kachuk fights his brother in the car well

thank god we have that yeah yeah we've got the commercial where mom needs to separate them but everybody's so supportive of everybody and there's so much love now around the league i didn't mind it at all it's like yeah bring me that and you know bring me some of that you know the old days that if you didn't have the enforcer for wayne gretzky you'd go after the best player right on the other team and that and that's where it could be a little stone age back then so I never never thought it was going to be that but I thought I thought it spoke volumes for the Florida Panthers just doing that right I just didn't same thing one thing I like about the Red Wings was last year when uh Kachuk challenged their whole bench well they can't jump over and fight him

they're going to get a 10 game suspension so they're in Ottawa and Kachuk the other Kachuk challenged their whole bench. Well, they can't jump over and fight him. They're going to get a 10-game suspension. So they're in Ottawa, and Kachuk, the other Kachuk, and he's kind of jabbing away, and all five are on him. You remember that, the end of the whistle? And that's really, Kippy, right, all you need, Sammy, nowadays. Just that. And that was the debate after the Leafs and Boston. You don't even have to fight.

You don't have to sit there and exchange punches and take a couple of hits to the melon and risk a concussion or anything, but you just have to have... Presence. The presence. You have to have a visual, right? You have to have optics that,

okay, I may not fight you, but I'm going to stand here and look you in the eye and I'm not giving you an inch. Even that I'm not giving you an inch. I'm not backing off. I'm here here let the officials come and break us up even if i have to have a can i say an fu contest right am i okay with that yep well we'll find out just stand there and have one of those yeah for like 10 seconds and it'll be almost enough for your fan base to say, hey, at least we're not backpedaling.

At least we look like we're interested in standing up, and that's all you need in the year 2023, 24. I thought Domi did a good job of that today with Sider in front of the net. We saw that, and Sider was out there leveling the body, and Max went right back at him I saw that, and Sider was out there leveling the body, and Max went right back at him and ended up pulling him off the ice for four minutes. What a great exchange. That guy is a stud D guy,

and you've got him off the ice for four minutes, and that's an exchange that Sheldon Keefe would take all day long. It played a part in the game. And that showed how he's fitting, as opposed to the end of the Los Angeles game, that he's just trying to make an impression and get something going physical in a game they lost. Hey, happiest guy we feel for today in hockey,

the guy's been a stand-up guy on a team that a defenseman had his agent say, basically, I want out of, Jonathan Huberto. You know, I mean, he's really been, and all of a sudden, they got some breaks to Calgary Flames, ordinary goaltending from the Vancouver Canucks, and Huberto comes up, gets a few points, and he's not out of the woods yet,

but, you know, small baby steps for him and maybe the Calgary team. I mean, as the next player, watching him benched last week and sitting at the end and kind of staring at his stick, like I felt for him. As an ex-player, I felt for him that, you know, people can say, well, he makes $10.5 million and I don't care.

And that guy had the worst sleep that night because nobody wants to feel like they're stealing money or not earning their share. And for him to come back and have that game the other night, because he's not a 115-point guy. He had a 115-point career year, but that's not him. But 50 points ain't him either. So where is it, Jonathan?

Find it again and you'll be fine. No, absolutely. So, I mean, that was one of the other. So wait, now talking about money. So he hit the mother load at the right time. So you're not putting, you used to be the expert on money. So you're not putting money out there for Nylander?

You're not putting numbers out there? Listen. He's putting it out there. Listen, it's never about what you're worth. It's all about what someone's willing to pay. Yes. That's it. That's it.

So I got to tell you, Sammy. Let me have. I was with Kippy. We were at Sportsnet. And you'd signed a big contract, one of your big contracts. Oh, Sammy, I was with Kippy. We were at Sportsnet, and you'd signed a big contract, one of your big contracts, which you're back doing again. Good. You had a couple years.

You had a scramble there. I filled it for eight years. You were at the Baltimore Skipjacks for a couple years, but now you're back. So this other colleague of ours during the break was busting you. I thought, like, leave him alone and just talk. You didn't leave any money for us or whatever and all that stuff. And I remember you wrote that. You said something about, I had leverage.

You have beverage. Like, it made no sense. It made no sense. But it just shut him up. Because the guy's trying to give Kip. He goes, no, it's not a budget. I had leverage, and you had beverage. Oh, my God.

Yeah, that's true. But it applies to everyone. He liked his beers, so I just said, listen, some of us have leverage. You at least have beverage. You're not really narrowing it down. People like beers. It's more that there's a few of us around. You're not narrowing it down. I don beers and sports. There's a few of us around. You're not narrowing it down.

I don't want to. It's the whole idea. No, everything very amicable. That's all I'm just saying. It was a good line. It was a good. Yeah. Listen, who's got more leverage right now than Willie Nylander?

Totally. How about Petey in Vancouver? I mean, he's eligible to sign a contract in July. What's the number? How long? Well, being an RFA does change it a bit. No, because you're buying the UFA years, and you will hit the mother load if you just decide to speed it up a year.

Yes, but also you know he's not going to walk next July 1st. No. Money-wise, you've still got a problem, right? I mean, as far as Finn making it fit. You don't want to play that game either. I would imagine if you love him and you feel like you can win a Stanley Cup with him, you're going to want to tie him up as quickly as you can. And right now, you assume that the number is probably closer to 12 than it is 11.

But do you think what we saw with Matthews here on the short-term deal is going to start becoming a trend for these guys? Or do you think it's an outlier with Matthews? No, I think you're onto something here. And if Petey decides in Vancouver that I'll go two or three years, he could still end up close to $35, $40 million

on a really short term deal and i think these guys are now willing to to bet that the cap goes up and i don't want to lock myself in and date my contracts because we've seen so many examples in the past that's what bertuzzi did here right like he took the one year deal when he's probably offered longer contracts yeah well uh again i don't know he got kind of caught in that July 1st shuffle that sometimes you get shuffled. I think more. I think, and again, Austin Matthews, like four years isn't like two years. No, of course.

But I think they've seen that, okay, Leon Dry's title, why did I sign for eight years at 8.5? Jack Hughes, first year of eight, you know? So, the one thing you go, okay, if I'm David Clarkson and I get hurt after two years, I've signed for seven, that's the worst case scenario about a career ending thing. But otherwise, you're going to go out and kick ass. Like, you know, you're going to keep throwing,

the money's going to go up and your leverage is going to go up. And so I think more and more. The Jack Hughes is remarkable that New jersey has him for seven more years at uh eight million because he would be a an 11 12 million dollar a year guy today if you're ranking like the contracts in the league that are the most valuable it'd be pretty high on the list in terms of that'd be a top five top three type of contract jack hughes yes no maybe number one you think give me another one where it's so like mccarr's on a pretty good number and he's amazing but he's on a shorter term deal he signed a long term did he go yeah he did he did he did so i think he's nine two five nine two five for i think i'll look it up right now but yeah like i mean i

think he might be number one in terms of value added. Like $8 million for how long? It's crazy. But part of it, give the team credit that Jack Hughes took a quantum leap after he signed the contract, after he signed the extension. So there was a bit of give and take. You're absolutely right. Go ahead. So Kael McCarr is in year three of a six-year contract that pays him nine million year nine million bucks per year big difference though

six to eight big difference huge no question as far as jack hughes is concerned i think he signed that deal coming off a year where he only had like 40 points 41 points like lefrenier right you wonder if he's going to get to the next level throw Throw him a big number over a lot of years, and now you're in a position where it's hard to turn down. You don't know if you're going to be a 100-point guy every year, which he looks now as a slam dunk if he stays healthy. He's that talented. One of the bad contracts before he signed with Toronto was John Tavares.

His second contract with the Islanders was really... Marshawn was like that for a long time. Well, the whole Bruins did, and now it's changed with McAvoy and Pasternak and, you know. One guy looking for a UFA contract, Pat Kane. He's out there. He's skating in the Toronto area. We got a text on the text line that he was practicing

with the London Knights today. So I don't know. We got an insider on the text line that he was practicing with the London Knights today. So I don't know. We got an insider on the text line. He's around. He's skating. Everybody says that he's close. Where do you think he ends up? There's a few teams linked to him, including the Buffalo Sabres.

Yeah. Florida's another one, right? Florida. Dallas. Sabres, to me, it's like they're just not ready for him to be there. Well, it's the hometown thing. He's always had the tie-in. Page out.

Does that drive the price up for him? Now, is his hip thing the same as Backstrom's, or is it different? I think it's a little bit different, right? Because, you know, Backstrom, Ed Jovanovsky had what backstrom was had and it was just tough getting another half season in you so kane anyone going to give more than one year i think it would be a a really hard thing to do for sure um without having some reassurance that uh he's healthy but you mentioned Sidney Crosby. So the last few years, Sidney Crosby, Artemi Panarin, and before last year, Patrick Kane, were always quietly in the top 10.

You know what I mean? They were just, they weren't getting, like Austin Matthews and Connor McDavid and others and Nathan McKinnon were kind of the new young guns. Yeah, without the fanfare as much. Yeah, you just look and go, and again, Artemi Panarin, whatever he was, you know, was sixth in scoring.

Patrick Kane was always in the top 10. Just very, and again, Artemi Panarin, whatever he was, you know, was sixth in scoring. Patrick Kane was always in the top ten. Just very, very quietly, those kind of players as veterans, you know, were able to, and you mentioned earlier about Sidney Crosby, consideration for the Hart Trophy. And a lot of people, that sounds foreign to a lot of people, but I thought it was a real valid point. Do you want to text? If we got any text questions.

I have a guy's thought on how they can fix overtime. I know you guys. I know you love it. Love to hear it because I don't have any answers. This is from TJ in Port McNichol. My idea for overtime is like college football, I think. Okay. Both teams get a two-minute power play.

Home team chooses first or second and if it goes to a shootout there after they oh sorry they go to a shootout after they're still tied after both power plays to me that's or you like it no yeah i it's more hockey than three on three is i dislike it i dislike that just as easily as i do as the three-on-three now. So if you switched it, it wouldn't be that big of a deal to me. Well, my one big one is make three-on-three eight minutes. It's just... Increase it from five to eight minutes.

Not hockey. It's not going to go away. It's not going to go away. People throw out, let's make it like eight minutes. Let's make it ten minutes. The players and the players association aren't interested in making the players work longer i can assure you we're talking three more minutes and what it gets into your depth they don't want saying it's going to exhaust

the elite players well that's when the depth players that's when kipper gets a chance to come on minute seven okay go tell sheldon keith to go play gregor in this scenario well that ain't happening but that's one way eliminates a few more shootouts because you know it's well i saw a clip from greg wishinsky who's on his i forget his podcast with arda uh and they were talking about it and i think it's 70 of the games ended before the shootout. And the whole point of three-on-three was to have less games end in shootouts. Yeah. So it's worked.

Like, you may not like the process, you may not like how it looks, but the general outcome is what they were trying to do. 70%. You know, earlier this week, I came on this show and I called out the maintenance guy because it was so hot in here. And today, he's getting me back because I froze my ass off in this studio right now.

I thought it was kind of cool. I'm glad I'm going to check it. So if you're out there, Mr. Maintenance Man, you got me. You got me because you can hang beef in here right now. Gordo, speaking of beef, great job today. Thank you, Kippy. Yeah, thank you.

Good being reunited. You know how much I love you. I know. Likewise. And the Sweden afternoon game, these games have been a little bit different. Kind of a pleasure to watch

at a different time. Do not be a stranger around here, okay? Okay. Thanks for watching. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. And we're back on Monday on The Real Kipper and Bourne Show.