Real Kyper & Bourne - One Game Remains

Episode Date: April 12, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with last night's Leafs' win over the Lightning, the questionable officiating, impressive effort levels in a no-stakes game, Luke Schenn's aggressiveness and Joseph Woll inspiring confidence as a playoff back-up. They are joined by Hall of Fame defencemen Mark Howe (40:55), who discusses his work with the Howe Foundation and shares some stories about his father and his thoughts on the state of the NHL today. Later, Mike Futa weighs in on last night's game, who will be starting game one and takes a look at the playoff races around the league (1:06:21). Finally, the guys close with a chat about Connor Timmins playing the wing, the Penguins fumbling out of the playoffs against the lowly Blackhawks and the future for Sidney Crosby.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Can you tell I went to the ball game last night? I can't tell if you went home or not. Still rocking the gear. I love it. I am. Must be the 80 degree weather out there. And the fact that I took in the season opener. Lucky. Got a jersey. Good friend was enough to uh buy one for me oh yeah i'm wearing it now i was never

well i shouldn't say that when i was a kid i was a jersey guy did you did you have jerseys like you grew up with the islanders yeah like my dad played so i I had Islanders and Kings gear everywhere. Did you wear your dad's jersey to school? I don't know. I definitely did wear like what I thought was the cool, the black and silver Kings jersey. I had to wear that, but not often. I wasn't a huge jersey guy. Sammy, we know you're a jersey guy. I have, there's a big like era in the early 2010s where you could buy like fake jerseys from China.

And it was like really hot in the streets to do it I have a bunch of really unique low quality unique jerseys yeah like I have a lot I mean I have a lot of Leafs jerseys in general but I have a couple Chicago Blackhawk ones I have a Mary Lemieux Penguins one got a lot of basketball jerseys I got a ton of them and you wear them no no no because I went up I used to wear them them. And you wear them? No. Because I went up. I used to wear them. Never. By the way, that's the only sports jersey I would wear in existence is the one you're

currently wearing. I wouldn't wear any hockey jersey. I wouldn't wear a basketball jersey. Yeah. I would wear a Jays jersey. That's the guy. Got Guerrero Jr. on the back. Yeah.

See, I was up until grade nine. Yeah. I bought two jerseys my whole life where I got gifted. Yeah. A Daryl Sittler and a Lanny McDonald. And I wore them to school up until grade nine. And then you get into junior hockey and then there's like a booster club involved. And that's all they do is wear jerseys.

Yeah. And that's where I noticed that, you know, you had to qualify a little bit to be in the booster club. One of the main thing is overly obsessed, like borderline stalkers. And I'm like, I ain't never wearing a jersey the rest of my life. You know, George Rusick from this network has a theory, and I say this as his theory, not my own.

He says that you should never wear a jersey of someone younger than you, and I said I would wear Guerrero Juniors. But he says only someone that you looked up to and watched as a kid would be acceptable. Yes, okay. Interesting theory. I don't know where you stand on that. I'm getting so old that I'm wearing one again maybe.

Yeah. I think a basketball jersey is appropriate if you're at like a cottage or something. But like outside of that or by the pool because, you know, it's a nice flowy feeling. But outside of that, it's like it's tough to wear one. Yeah, it just wouldn't. I think George's theory would get thrown out the window if there was a Novak Djokovic jersey, though. Oh, really? You think he'd do it?

Yeah. Okay. Now, I did take exception to a little bit of the snickering that me wearing this jersey now qualifies me to cover the Jays for Sportsnet. No, listen. That's just Alex looking for the new lazy joke on the way in. He says, new shy Davidi just dropped when Kim walked in. Are they known for being cheerleaders?

Listen, you have a guy on your show every day that adores the Toronto Maple Leafs. So I don't think we should throw stones from our glass house here. But to be fair, you ended up coming on the show almost by accident. It was never planned. It was just me and JB going, we can't talk for two hours. Let's get that guy behind the glass. What's his name?

Listen, I didn't expect to talk. I came into this not expecting to talk, and in the first minute of the first show, you're like, Sammy? I'm like, okay, here we go now. I don't want people to think that alex is throwing shy under the bus either because the joke forever when gunning walked in here when you weren't here was new kipper just dropped and so this has just been

a recurring joke every day for like 10 days now love the raptors too so it's like we're all in the same boat here we have an excellent broadcast for the toronto blue jays like we have a world class broadcast we get dan shulman and buck martonto blue jays like we have a world-class broadcast we get dan shulman and buck martinez every night it's like a world series broadcast every single night jamie joe siddle all those guys hazel fantastic job elite team yeah hey good pickup good rebound oh it's true oh i watch every single blue jays game i know it's true i'm very familiar why people tune in for two hours not to talk jays i'm going to the game tonight so toronto maple leafs we got mad content i'm already worried

about the end of the show leaves down the lightning four three in a very high spirited high event high event affair oh yeah now or was it was it exactly what you expected? Overachieved on many levels? Let's start with you, JB. Well, I'm a little thrown off because I've heard Cooper's comments on the game. You know, yesterday. And we'll get to those. We will.

And, you know, we spent a lot of time teeing up last night's game on the show yesterday saying, it's a meaningless game. Should you even play your guys? And by the time we talked our way through it it was like tonight could be kind of nasty right like you know tampa loves to drag you into the alley they're gonna be setting the tone we really thought that last night might have a lot of animosity so i think i was kind of on high alert for it the worst part for me was that the refs listened to our show decided they didn't want any shenanigans and ruin the hockey game last night we don't we are not the ref complaining show i thought they ruined the game last night sammy we had mentioned before we went off air yesterday that we thought this was

going to be a meat and potatoes game and and it really was yeah i listen i thought there was a lot that came out of that game and the i think the way that the Leafs found a way to win that game without Matthews, Marner, and Giordano in the lineup, I guess, you know, Cooper can talk about how. Let's just listen to what Cooper had to say about that. Okay, hold on, hold on. Because it really forms a lot of the conversation. I just want to get an overall.

Before we get into that, because we will get into the whole psyche and all of that. I just want to get an overall feel on what we saw last night. And you brought it up, JB, first and foremost, the tone and the penalties. It started, what, in the first minute with a call on Klorne on a cross check. A cross-check. I couldn't believe they called that. What I got out of last night is that the cross-check will be the penalty of the playoffs.

I think so. A hundred percent. Because it's such a gray area between a cross-check and a shove. Sure. And we saw both of them last night in my opinion some legitimate and some like are you really gonna call that during the stanley cup playoffs i really feel like there was a i won't even use the word the coaches do but a direction from the league to get out ahead of this series to set the tone for this series what's going to be acceptable

we're going to take one guy don't be the one guy this is what it's going to be like i really feel like there was a conscious effort and go ahead made it your game ref didn't you think and you talk about setting the tone i felt like the lightning early in that game were just way over the top like trying to prove that they are the big tough guys the entire time i thought for the first period they're they're trying to act like they've even on top of other games that i've seen they were like really trying to we have a term called extra they're acting very extra i thought throughout that whole first period cooch is actually they've been doing this all year but last night i i you know i've watched a ton of lightning i know they've had a few brawls

but it just was every single little thing they're trying to set the tone 100 they know that this one's gonna be in the back of everyone's mind a week later and you've started to the animosity was built last night even without matthews and marner in the lineup. 14 penalties. So there is an understanding of next level stuff. But this is, this has been Tampa. This is how you lead the league in penalty minutes. The way Tampa portrayed themselves with a sprinkle of, you know, and a cherry on top, right? That's what you saw last night.

For sure. And, you know, they a cherry on top, right? That's what you saw last night. For sure. And, you know, they dressed everyone last night. Tampa, I'm not going to say they brought it on like the best of what they can do, but, you know, they clearly thought that last night was going to mean something. I'd like to remind everyone that in April of last year before the playoff series,

Tampa and Toronto also played a fairly meaningless game. Tampa beat them 8-1 just beat the brakes off the lefts i remember that and it was like oh no and i think they were hoping to do that again last night it didn't go their way okay let's start uh we'll we'll get to coop i promise you okay let's go to sheldon key for our first kippers clipper on uh on what he saw out of last night well i think they can just take away the fact, you know, they can feel our group really coming together here over the last couple of weeks. We put in a lot of really good efforts.

But these last two in particular, you know, these are tough games mentally, you know, for the group. Just to, you know, you're at the stage of the season and the schedule where, you know, you can just kind of ride it out and sort of mail it in and press on. I thought last night, you know, we go into Florida against a desperate team that has an opportunity to clinch a playoff spot, and we don't let them do that on our watch. And then we come in here on a back-to-back and a short line-up

and all these kind of things, and the guys find a way to win the game. And not just win the game, but I thought we worked and competed hard tonight. Guys are blocking shots, and we had to get big minutes out of guys today on the second game back-to-back on the road. That's what I take away from the game is just the character of our group is really strong and the togetherness of the group in terms of just rallying around whatever the situation is and giving us all they have to do whatever we're asking from them at this point.

So he thought their guys laid it on the line. I completely agree with that. I thought it was just encouraging to see how hard the Leafs played in a meaningless game. Why not meaningless? Stop saying it's meaningless. It's not meaningless. If you're playing a team you're about to play in a week.. Why not meaningless? It's not me. Stop saying it's me. It's not meaningless. If you're playing a team,

you're about to play in a week. You're right. That comes with meaning. That's a really good catch. With everything on the line. Yeah. It's not a meaningless game, but I just love that the Leafs rose to the occasion in terms of the intensity

and trying their bags off. Mm-hmm. And the guys that are kind of leading the charge in many ways since the trade deadline are the new additions. Again, Jake McCabe is pivotal for them now. I just look at, for me, the Luke Shannon. And again, Luke's is in that wheelhouse of 10 to 12 minutes. But they're noticeable 12 minutes.

He was 15 last night. that wheelhouse of 10 to 12 minutes and but they're noticeable 12 minutes i think i think uh the fight with maroon in so many ways just sends a different vibe and a different message starting next week yeah and going in hard against him the one thing thing that Luke, I love about Luke, is when he goes in there, he's trying to hurt you. He's not trying to separate you from the puck. He's trying to hurt you. He would like you to think, next time I would like to not get hit again.

So you just take the puck or I'm going to change or we're going to do something different next time. So if years passed, if some Montreal Canadiens or some Columbus Blue Jackets or Tampa last season, if you've got a handful of guys that go in with that attitude, you need more of them this year. And they went and found Luke Shen. They found Achari.

They found Lafferty. Those guys, when they go in there, they're trying to hurt you. Achari's the same thing. It's all about the juice. You know, you mentioned it. To me, that was incredibly meaningful. Like, I really agree with you, Kipper, that he was such a pain in the ass, at least for seven games last year,

where he was just under their skin. He was effective. Like, he wasn't playing much, but he was just pushing all the right buttons. And you have Luke Schengel out there, bury him into the end boards, fight him, beat the crap out of him, and knock him out of the game, and he's just not a factor anymore. I don't think Maroon got to throw a punch. It's meaningful, man.

It matters. And it is also, like, what the Leafs were able to do last night was take a piece of skin off of Tampa Bay. You know, they took a layer off of them. And that's what it's going to take over seven games is to continue to kind of hammer and hammer and hammer. That's how you win playoff series. Yeah, the skill. And yes, specialty teams and great goaltending but it's the constant wear and tear off a team and i saw that last night we're in game

81 and the leafs took a strip off of tampa bay i'm watching last night uh shan against maroon and then i'm watching even tavaris i don't know if you saw that kind of subtle battle along the wall with cory perry and the next thing you know perry's hunched over the last thing you want is to be fight by the way is we'll get into that too but the last thing you want to see yeah is a guy like cory perry with the mileage that he's had hunched over on the bench and the playoffs haven't even started yet but that's that's the start of wearing teams down do the Leafs have the ability now to be a little younger more energetic play a little heavier than Tampa in this series last night probably showed us that yeah the potential's there well what i'm curious

to see is i like that the leaf showed last night that they can do it they can hang with a shin grabs maroon you know like i i like that they showed that they can do that i am curious to know if going into this playoff series they you know that's tampa's game i'm curious to know if toronto has demonstrated they can do it, but then we'll revert back to doing what they do that has brought them so much success, you know, outside of getting through them last year in the end. And with that, Kipper, I'm talking about roster decisions, and we'll get more into Matthew Nyes.

But, you know, last night on the broadcast, I'll give, you know, the other guys some credit. There was a good comment made. I think it was Poulin said, you know, when on the broadcast i'll give uh you know the the other guys some credit there was a good comment made i think it was pool and said um you know when you dress nice you're playing to win you're playing to beat the other team as opposed to a more conservative play to not lose sort of mentality you're saying we're going to take it to tampa bay same with lilligren over shen same with stacking lines i think they can choose to go really aggressive at tampa bay or a more conservative drag it out penalties low scoring low event game i'm curious to see what they'll choose i wrote out with that by the way it's on sportsnet.ca it's going to be real interesting um do you want to get into the nice conversation right now

i do i feel like i don't want the cooper thing to get lost which Nize conversation right now? I do. I feel like I don't want the Cooper thing to get lost. Which one do you think is more important? Because I'm fine with either. Okay, let's go Nize and then we'll get into Cooper. Last night, we saw a lot more as a bigger presence, a bigger role. Yeah. Running shotgun with Ryan O'Reilly, their best center last night.

Yeah. And, you know, there's something to be said that he's got a crash course right now to get ready for game one. And I still. Do you feel the same as yesterday? I feel. I do feel under different circumstances. This is not his place to come in and start game one. In a perfect world that I probably would have been a lot more comfortable

for him to get some games with the Marlies and get ready for September for training camp to earn a job. But he's on a crash course right now. And I don't think it would have been possible for except one exception, and that is his position is the weakest on the team, and in many ways, it is wide open still that there are no locks there,

and I include Michael Bunting. Maybe in their minds, they're sitting there going maybe he is a tad better than michael bunting now i don't know i have no idea what they're thinking but there's no question that they're they're pushing this hard right now to find out a lot of things about matthew knives and he doesn't look out of place for me yeah i just don't know again if you want to put him in scenarios where you said it best the other day do you want to put him in a scenario where we can look back and we don't remember much about galchenyuk but we do remember a giveaway that played a huge role in eliminating the leafs do you want to put that kid in that same position this to me is the conversation about playing to win versus playing not to lose

because you're right if you're worried about that sort of thing and you're conservative and you say you don't want to put them in you know they've been burned by that before but i gotta tell you so we sat here yesterday we all said if game one is tomorrow in and out or otherwise i'm flipping i'm i'm flipping one one day later nize is in my lineup he's got too much pop he's too dynamic he there's too much upside for me even knowing the risk and the potential galch and yuck moment by the, last night he huffs another one back casually that almost gets picked. But there's too much upside. He's so quick and he has such good sense for hunting pucks. He's heavy on his stick.

I thought he was really good. Like the goal that O'Reilly gets where he shoots it and almost scores. He's on the defensive side of the puck, stops, gets in a position ahead of Ace Amon. Yeah, those are great instincts. You know, like. You can't teach those instincts. And over seven games, you can't tell me he's not going to create a couple of moments

that way for the Leafs. Even if there is one going back the other way at some point, I just think he's going to create too much. Okay, let's follow that up, Sammy, with Sheldon Keefe's comments on Nyes, and then we'll come out and get your thoughts. He didn't have as many options tonight as first thing, but, you know, I thought he he did a good job yesterday so I think he's earned it you

know he's earned an increased opportunity you know so part of it comes out of you know the group that we dressed here today but he also earned it yesterday you're in the confidence and I liked him again here tonight obviously so many penalty kills and four and fours and that makes it a little more difficult to get him out there as much as I had even had hoped. But I still thought he did a good job. And he's still playing against good players with good players. But, you know, I thought again here today is another solid effort from him. I'm not sure you can earn anything with your first. I thought it was funny too nhl career starts

he's earned it yeah come on no there's one thing that you you hand him something and there's another thing that he takes advantage of it sure but sorry sheldon nothing's been earned in your first two games of your career no i agree don't you think though the improvement for me from game one to game two i was like oh my god like he'd look like you know he had a couple good shifts in the first period of the first game but we talked about it yesterday he really went away as that game went on you know the crippling heartbreak of losing in a hockey game and the 24 hours that he went through to get into that game yeah i thought he just looked a lot more comfortable and the man is confident he wants the puck on his stick like you see that play

what you guys are talking about he bangs his stick oh i don't know was it o'reilly that found him or was it willie that found him right uh willie yeah he puts it right on the tape and he hammers it on net gets through vasileski and he had another one early on the power play where he absolutely ripped one i don't want to say i'm ready to completely flip yet but last night was a step in me flip-flopping no doubt there is you know there's moments where i know that it's not how the leafs want it like he's way ahead of the play on breakouts he's so far up the ice that's just the college mentality sure it is he's turning back physically skating backwards in the neutral zone multiple times ahead of the play um you know there's a few things he turned the puck over on

a one-on-three he tried to skate through tampa's lineup here there's some things but i just think there's so much upside that you got to live with that risk a little bit okay about 25 minutes we're gonna have uh hall of fame defenseman mark how join us frozen pond uh and the how family have gotten together to raise money for the how fan foundation and they're going to do this by auctioning off incredible items from father gordy's amazing career, including rings, trophies, personal keepsakes. Gordy's fishing rods. Oh, my gosh. The stick he used to score his 801st goal.

Can I buy his biceps? Yeah. Yeah, can I buy that picture of him on the farm? This is like our Babe Ruth stuff. Yeah, it is. Crazy. Yeah, and it is crazy that it's just going to go to private collections out there and but for a great cause good for them this is the certainly the right

thing to do all right in the second hour mike feud of course uh former nhl executive does a terrific job on sportsnet uh breaking down uh games with you jb uh he's going to be along and give us his thoughts on the final matchup in the regular season between tampa bay and the toronto maple leafs okay you guys are itching for a little john it's crucial you know we are gonna drown in the next two weeks of john cooper clips do we really need to start this early oh it's not early buddy it's begun the series is underway yeah okay you want to tee this up or you just want us to roll it we got to play the intensity big game last night fights you know like lots going on greasy play leafs get a gut check win, block shots.

Here's what John Cooper had to say on the intensity. With some of those post-whistle situations, do you have to kind of keep that in the back of your mind looking towards next week? No. There was zero intensity in that game. I'm telling you, there was none. So it may look like it from the stands,

and that was an exhibition game. It wasn't even a regular season game. How catty and petty. What a. John, that wasn't the question. He wanted to make that crystal clear. His thoughts of last night. Yeah, well, when his whole team's acting like idiots every night,

that probably didn't seem that intense. That's a non-hockey game to him, is idiots every night, that probably didn't seem that intense. That's a non-hockey game to him, is what he's saying. It doesn't matter to us. They could have won it still. Sure. They should have won it, probably. They should have.

Yeah, they would have shot him by 300. You get outshot 2-1. You go 0-8 on the power play. He had ample opportunity to win that game. He's just pissed off at his team for blowing a game they should have won. Well, and he must think, you know, getting 50 shots almost, that they should have won, and that he must have thought the Leafs goaltender was amazing. Let's play Cooper on the Leafs goaltending.

Don't you get 47 shots on goal and probably another 20 or 30 that just don't get to the net. It's just a night you just got to tip your hat to the guy in the other net we got we scored three should be enough to win so can't give up four no absolutely nothing for these guys zero respect i will i will not be tipping any caps no in fact i have thrown my cap in the garbage. This guy. The difference between post-Game 7 last year where he's like, the Leafs, oh, what a team.

They just deserve so much respect. I mean, beating them was a miracle. And then before a series, nothing for them. Not crumbs. That's just... I don't want to say I want to tip my hat to him but that gives you the level of competition that this guy has like screw you yeah not uh not giving him an inch i have to say him going out of his way to say the intensity thing reflects his team's

extraness in that game like there is a part of me that they know and they are desperate that they know that even a regular season game they know that they've been they're playing a lot of hockey they're tired they've been under 500 since the start of february they haven't looked as good he's wondering if they can flip the switch like i bet you there's and he just has to come out and say that. Like, it really wreaks a borderline desperation to me. Well, that's... It is, in many ways, a message.

Who's he talking to when he says that? That's a great question. I have a whole idea. No, I'm going to tell you. His own players. Okay. He's talking to his own players. And he's telling them,

I've seen your level. Real intensity. That ain that ain't it okay and he might not be wrong i actually do agree with him i didn't think outside of the scrums that the game was that we are talking about one of the better the best post salary cap team in team that we've seen so far. Yeah, they've been going to cups for a decade. Arguably, you know, could they be considered the closest thing to a dynasty since I don't know when. I guess Chicago.

Okay. Hawks. He knows his team. He knows the levels that they've risen to he might not be wrong according to him for you for you sammy you've waited six years for this leaf team to play like that oh my god show up like that this is in many ways a highlight for you and Leaf Nation. You want to take that away. They showed up in game 81, and he's saying,

I've eaten your game 81, Sammy, for breakfast. For sure. That's your Christmas last night. Wow. He's like. I wouldn't exactly say that. You're giddy today, bud. You're just giddy.

Listen, I'm very reflective. He played golf, and it's sunny, and he's going to a jays game it's all related if there's one guy that could speak of i'm thrilled it might be cooper to understand yeah levels and if he thinks it's the intensity is a facade he's talking he's telling his players that guys i've seen you i i also think there's something for the other team to not give them any sort of, yeah, boy, I don't know what we're going to do about this group, you know? He doesn't strike me as a guy that says that I've got to figure out a way to crawl into their heads.

He doesn't strike me as that guy. Came across as desperate. There's one more on playoffs approaching from Coop. Let's finish up. The playoffs come up next week and having that matchup coming up to have a game like that against this team. What do you mean a game like that? Like mucked up, as you mentioned.

Yeah, like it's – I don't know. We'll get something out of it at some point when we go back and look at the tape. But like I said, they had a lot of players that played lots of minutes for them not in the lineup. So hard to judge when they're not in there. So he wants that to be a non-game. Never happened. It wasn't even a regular season game.

The Leafs went into their building and beat them without their two best players and mark giordano on defense sure like we were talking about he can say it's a meaningless game all you want but all three of us agreed that baby wasn't meaningless no it it does a lot more for the leafs than it does for tampa bay tampa bay's issues as as as we know has been well documented since January. Like there's bigger fish to fry than feeling like you got to really send a message to the Leafs in game 81 for them.

They got big fish to fry. No bones about that. They do. And one of them might just be the biggest one. And Vasilevsky, again, letting a really un-Vasilevsky goal against Willie. I just got to say, on that play, yeah, terrible goal, right? Where's his goal stick? How do you give up five hole along the ice?

So he's reading the pass across, which is the right play. Willie should have passed it across. I thought he made the right read and Willie made the dumb shot. Either way. Willie was reaching. He could. I thought he made the right read and Willie made the dumb shot. Either way. Willie was reaching. He could barely. That's true. He was reaching.

His body language said he wasn't in any position at all to make that play. Yeah. Terrible. But like. He just shoveled it to the net. If Vasilevsky can give them one of those per game. Just one. I saw your message last night.

Just one a game and Leafs will be fine that would be all the difference right oh well um sammy i guess we can hear from sheldon soon oh and eight on the power play for tampa but it's still because last night it still scares the crap out of you it's it's still point it's still stamped every time kucherov touches in the flank, I can't watch. Off the crossbar. That's, I mean, that's the thing that I hated about last night is I thought, like, if I'm going to get into a negative about it, is I thought the Leafs did a really good job early on

not buying into the crap too much. But as the game wore on, they started going down to that level and getting into that fight and they started taking a bunch of penalties i can promise you they will not go over eight again on a power play and like you said borny kucherov on that flank you know stamp co split a puck in two from the top of the circle off the crossbar on the power play a lot of looks at the least pk yeah i i thought the least pk was good they were. They blocked some shots, but the main reason they killed eight penalties was

Joseph Wall. Joseph Wall was unbelievable last night, and especially on the penalty kill. Honorable mention for bunting, for getting into a fight with Corey Perry. Did they give him five? I don't know what he gave. I don't know. He's in the box. I'm sure he's just praying they gave him five.

Big Mike. I will kind of nitpick a little bit, though. He got the cross check. Why is he on a dive? It's the sliding, and then it is the not getting up and then looking for the official that drives me nuts. And he just wonders why he's not getting calls at least he fought him at least he did i'm with you on everything you just said by the way i'm not i am going to give him contradictory i'm going to give him credit for uh doing that i would have preferred him just

getting up and going right after cory perry That's the difference between keeping a reputation and losing a reputation. Yeah, for sure. And what's that fake, fake slash? Just slash him. Yeah. Don't fake it. Just slash him. It's insane that Corey Perry won a heart trophy.

Like that he has become this player. And I don't even mean that is a pejorative like congratulations for the evolution of your career what a useful guy and how about him they get tied up it looks like it's over and he just gets three shots and they're right in the bench super greasy he's a grease bag yeah and you'd love him if he was a leaf every single person he'd be more popular than spence it was okay where do you want to go next? Wall. Hold on. I disagreed with the last comment. What? You do? Yeah.

Spezza's beloved here. Who do you think would be more popular? Corey Perry or Jason Spezza? Oh, buddy. It's not even close. Perry. Of course. Yeah, not even in conversation. Listen, we like Jason Spezza. Of course. He didn't move the needle and they didn't win with him. Oh, not even conversation. Listen, we like Jason Spezza. Of course. He didn't move the needle, and they didn't win with him. He moved the needle.

He was great here. Conor ever respects him. I don't know if they were as respectful. Did they get in the second round with him that I'm not aware of? He got a lot of respect in the handshake line last year, so good for him. Did Perry win one here that I'm aware of? He could have. Yeah, he could have.

He could have helped them if they actually signed him when he wanted to for 750 000 ah i don't know sped sped has the good guy factor yeah he does because the bar is so low but you know what people like here guys who play really hard and get in fights and are greasy this is true and he tried that at the end of his career and he was the only one who fought in that columbus series but god love him that's not the spencer that you saw even for the leaps given that extra effort wasn't the one he was it wasn't the player that he kind of was his also wasn't authentic to who he really is perry has always been this guy okay did we switch over kind of yeah okay all right uh keith on joe brick wall yeah terrific clearly guy wants to take Okay. All right. Keith on Joe Brickwall.

Yeah, terrific. Clearly, a guy wants to take advantage of his opportunity. We knew we were going to need him tonight. We're glad that it worked out that we were able to have him here today. Like I said, I thought the guys worked hard in front of him, but he was excellent. He gave the group confidence on the bench. You can just hear the way the guys were talking, the way they're

acknowledging each save. That gives the group confidence in life. So the guys certainly fed off it. That's good. Hey, the good news in all of this is as of today, there isn't

a huge concern about the net at least today i agree it did feel like they're an injury away from screwed and now it's like well they're an injury away from i don't know not sure what we'll get they're definitely not screwed right if wall goes in there they're not screwed i don't say they're in an ideal scenario but it's not like it's you know peter morazic going in there no okay you know to win a cup you're going to be in some late game sevens or sixes or overtimes or there's going to be moments where it's a big ask of the kid yeah we're asking we're talking like sam styles mr playoffs no fair enough played two games in his career right like it's the whole league though is trending towards putting these guys who have never done it before in positions and kemper did it last year you're

fine if the other team is the same situation the odds the odds are we're going to end up with another kemper lifting the stanley cup than we are vasilevsky or we'll see what happens. You know, even with Shusterkin, who's probably considered the second best goaltender in the world. But outside of that, the trend is now just be solid. Don't we, we can win a Stanley cup without a goalie being spectacular.

Yeah. Make the saves. You're supposed to, we'll play the team is it like i don't want to get too nuclear here too hot samson out starting game one he's a starter all the way through the playoffs he i don't think he's coming out unless there's injury but i i'm not i think kipper you've alluded to this i'm not convinced that wall isn't the best guy if murray's healthy if murray's healthy yeah i agree i'm not sure either i i think i think wall

earned his keep going into the playoffs that was a big moment for him you know i think there's no way he's not a leaf next year to a guy that you don't know if he's gonna trip coming out of the dressing room right i don't know it's an easy decision for me yeah but there's no there's no scenario of him getting into a game unless it's injury right no uh down three one and lit up the night before i i don't know yeah fair enough maybe you're right yeah you can write a scenario for sure got to change the energy but i don't know we haven't seen that that's a it's a big stretch for samson off to disappear and we haven't really seen that they at least have been able to rebound off of a bad loss for the most part and the goaltending has been able to rebound

yeah when samson off's been in that so i not not not overly concerned about their their their net right now uh anything else on cooper you want sammy no i'm good i'm good he's just he's doing what he's supposed to do to me he's pissing me off the series hasn't even started yet now i mean he's driving me insane and i'm getting a lot of leaf fan talk in my life about Cooper. It's starting. He's the only opposing coach that can get you texts. There's a saying among sports fans they love to throw in faces, being like, oh, he lives rent-free in your head.

He lives rent-free in your head. I will say that Cooper does have me a little bit rent-free. I do spend a lot of time thinking about Cooper, too much time thinking about him and just the things he says he he really knows how to get under my skin so i can only imagine how you'd feel as an opposing coach or opposing player hearing some of the stuff he says yeah he's excellent at this excellent he will not lose the media battle in the first round what'd you think of uh the call on kucherov uh after the whistle was it a trip on uh brody great call into greasy dumb play don't be dumb didn't like a lot of calls last night

just sucky on his part on kucherov's part oh yeah he's a suck he's a baby yeah i know he he gets the the pouts going the game's not going his way. The most competitive guys tend to be poor losers. Hey, I'm not saying he's not one of the world's best hockey players. Yeah. But he is a poor sport. And that is a compliment. But, man, is he a king bad body language when it's not going his way. At least you're a guy in the league by far.

Cooch. Not even close. Oh, I enjoy him. No, like in terms of as my fandom i can't stand him i hate his face i hate everything about him and he's so good well this will be a fun series to cover with sam the problem is he's so damn good yeah he's unbelievable that play he made where he slipped into the zone last night where he goes through brody makes him like goes through him like butter oh yeah nothing makes it look easy he looks like he's barely skating on his backhand and he's still got the presence of mind be like i can kind of cut in here no he's i sported him big time what do you have 111 points

this year or something yeah he's unbelievable so okay let's take a quick break we got mark how hall of fame defenseman after the break we're gonna get into raising a little money for the how foundation with some of the best items you'll ever find out uh they're working with frozen pond so we'll get into that plus what he's up to and mike fuda in the second hour talk sabers eliminated we'll talk pittsburgh on the cusp. And you're New York Islanders. Big game tonight. I mean, last night that they got given that gift is unbelievable. The Penguins, what are you doing?

That and more on Real Kipper and Bourne after the games. The Raptor Show with Will Liu. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590, The Van. All right, you want to talk legends in the game of hockey? How about our next guest, Mark Howe, Hall of Fame defenseman? Had the privilege of going to a few training camps with Mark as a member of the Philadelphia Flyers. Never got an actual regular season game with him. But I'm still a better guy for the experience.

Howie, how are you? Good, Kepper. How are you doing? We're doing well, man. Thanks for joining experience. Howie, how are you? Good, Kepper. How are you doing? We're doing well, man. Thanks for joining us. Did you tell them why we didn't play together? I remember why. Because they just... You blew out your knee in,

I think it was in New York, wasn't it? It was in a game. It was in an exhibition game in Richmond, Virginia. Okay, I remember you blew your knee out. Yeah, and I just remember the support it was in an exhibition game in Richmond, Virginia. Okay. I remember you blew your knee out. Yeah. And I just remember the support that I had that training camp and you and the big man, Tim Kerr, you know what Tim Kerr used to do? He used to just look at me in training camp and he pretend to put his hand in

his pocket because he felt that was having a training camp that was good enough to make the team and every time every time the big man did that i had like chills down my spine and then i blew out my knee and uh unfortunately didn't get that opportunity but hey thanks thanks for doing this i i know um you know there's a few things i want to get to around the game of hockey but before that you know i i want to get into around the game of hockey. But before that, I want to get into what you and your brother and your family have decided to do all in supporting the Howe Foundation and what you're doing with some of the personal items of your dad and how you're making them available. So why don't we start there, Mark? Yeah, well, we've done, I think, four or five smaller ticket items through Frozen Pond. We've had some auctions, but

Marty and I, we decided it's time to step up a little bit. And it's so hard to part with some of this stuff, but we know it's going for a good cause. So the money's going to the Howell Foundation that my mother and father created back in the mid-'90s, and it's to help benefit young boys and girls in sport and also in the education of sport if somebody wanted to be an agent, something like that, in the education of sport, if somebody wanted to be an agent, something like that. So in honor of my mother. And so I know my mom and dad, for all the years that they were together, going back to 52, 53, they made sure they gave back. And in one way or another. And so I think my mom's dream was to have a big museum

and keep all the artifacts together and be able to generate revenue that way that you could give back. And that just never came about. So like I said, Marty and I, we've been at this for about 20 years, and we figured it's time to try to step things up a little bit. I know we've been donating this for about 20 years and we figured it's time to try to step, step things up a little bit. I know we've been donating to Snyder hockey and in the Philadelphia area and a few other things. We're trying to work some out out in Vancouver and dad's hometown,

Saskatoon. And yeah, so we're, we're excited about it and we're just trying to carry on the tradition that my mom and dad created, started many, many years ago. Mark, I have the privilege of being married to Clark Gilley's daughter, and I know that the Gilley's family have one piece of memorabilia up in their house, and it's a Gordie House stick on the blade that says the time he assisted on one goal of Clark's somewhere along the way. I know it was the most prized possession in his collection of memorabilia i'm looking at some of this stuff that you guys are

auctioning off i see gordy how's fishing rods and like that's the type of thing where you really connect to the person in their past i know clark's snowmobile stuff was a big thing for him what of the stuff up for auction um for auction really resonates with you as something pretty cool to your family? Well, everything of Dad's is kind of awesome. A lot of it was on display at the Hockey Hall of Fame when they did the 9 and 99 display. But for me, the things that I guess are deepest to my heart are a couple of the rings that Marty's auctioning off.

And one is the Memorial Cup ring when we won together as Toronto Marlies. And the other one is our first APCO Cup championship down in Houston. And they mean so much to me because we did it together as a group, as a family. And as anybody, it's really hard to part with that stuff. I mean, all the blood, the sweat, everything you did, and there's such an emotional tie to it because of the family bond that we had. So I love those. And of all the Gordie Howe items, I have one at home here.

It's a portrait that was done by the Montreal Canadiens, and John Beliveau presented it to my dad in recognition of his 500th goal. When I left home many years ago when I was like 17, we kind of all got to have one thing. I took that. I said, it's a portrait. It hangs on my wall. You can take anything i have do not

touch that some some some of them get gonna get hurt and but wouldn't uh but mom and dad they always wanted to do it the right way and then i know we talked with dad we said well we're uh you know when you pass we're going to put all this stuff in the foundation uh so the portrait and everything that was uh there's for many years ago went in, and I actually went and purchased it. So I wrote a check to the foundation. I said, nobody's getting this from me. So the Hall of Fame, I valued everything a few years,

I guess about seven years ago about when Dad passed. So I always pay a little bit extra from what they value that. And, uh, so yeah, so I I'm getting to keep the painting that is part of my, my being. And I said, hopefully the money that I put in will go to help somebody. We're talking to Mark Howe, Hall of Fame defenseman. Uh, we're talking about, uh, uh, personal, uh, items from Gordie Howe's estate that will be auctioned off with funds supporting the Howe Foundation, the Howe family and Frozen Pond doing a terrific job on this. How many items are we talking about? Did you get an actual count of the things that have been collected over the years?

And if so, how do you really decide on what stays, what goes to the grandkids or future generations? Well, it's through communication. I know I have three kids, and I've asked, I've taken photos of the things that I have and various awards and rings. And I said, what would you guys want? And there's certain things that they just touch you, touch your soul because of the connection you had with, you know, whether the grandfather, the grandmother, their father, unfortunately, Marty and his wife, Mary were unable to have kids, so they don't really have anybody to give this stuff to.

And so Marty just woke up one day and said, okay, it's time for this stuff to go. But with my mother and father's stuff, there's so much stuff. Like I said, we've been getting rid of some. There's plenty more, but we also plan to keep a bunch of stuff together. I mean, for me, the real important milestones are when he scored his 544th goal and 545th to tie, beat Rocco Richard for the all-time record.

Those types of things, they just resonate. I know with his heart trophies and some of the things that he has, because I'm sure that the Hockey Hall of Fame, other places, maybe a museum somewhere else would like to, you know, borrow that stuff and have it on display. So we plan on keeping some of it together. But it's just, there's so much.

It's neat. I like, I know my son's house. We have a lot of things. And one thing is like the top of mom and dad's wedding cake. And for me, like that's just hard. It's hard to part with. And it seems strange. But, you know, maybe one day we'll decide to move that. But it's the personal attachment to uh certain things that bring back

fond memories of things you did together and those are the things that are uh i guess they probably have more of an emotional value than they do a financial value but um yeah but it's all it's all pretty neat stuff and like i said we're we're we're doing it to help people. Like I said, my oldest son, Travis, did a project, an NFT project, about a year ago. And one of the items for sale was called a first skate. And it goes back to the story when Dad was in Saskatoon. And somebody came to their house house and they needed some money so they my grandmother gave him the two dollars that she had to her name and in that was a pair of skates and I said God knows if there would ever been a Gordie Howe if they didn't have that pair of skates in that bag

that's pretty unbelievable you know while we have you here mark i you know be remiss if we didn't get your thoughts on present day nhl i don't know how much you're watching these days but as you watch the game evolve and you know sydney crosby and alex ovechkin come come along and now pass the torch to a guy like connor mcdavid what are your thoughts on the state of the nhl today as a viewer uh i well i don't know i i uh i retired almost two years ago now uh i try to watch it uh it's just it's the game is uh the players can all skate they're all in great condition. The game is coached. It's technically more sound than it's ever been. I just don't see the entertainment value that you saw in the game

maybe 20, 25, 30, 40, 50 years ago. That's how I look at it now. But if I go back to watching the playoffs of last year, I thought the playoffs were great. The intensity level, everything got ramped up. You know, I've been to five or six games down in Philadelphia. The one that I had to go to,

I hadn't seen Connor McDavid play live before, and I said, I'm going to that game. I got to watch this guy. So if there's anybody I'm going to go watch, it's going to be him. He's exciting. But I expect all these, it's going to be him. He's exciting. But I expect all these games in the playoffs to be really good in the East. I mean, every team loaded up. I mean, it's going to be, there's going to be some really good hockey teams that lose out.

And I just, I miss, I miss the fighting. I know it's not really part of the game. I miss some of the big hits and, and I don't like players getting hurt. But, hey, I got caught with my head down a few times. And that's part of learning. And that's part of the game, the intimidation of the game. And so I missed some of that in the regular season. I know you get more of it in the playoffs. But I like the game better when the players used to police the game

and there wasn't so much onus put on the referees. A few more Gordie Howe elbows, maybe? Oh, yeah, well, Gordie did more this year. But he was so smart about it. But back in the day, they only had one or two cameras in the building and you had one referee. And Gordy would never get you back right away. He would wait and he was smart enough. He would wait till the puck's in the right corner. He's back checking somewhere out by the red line. And next thing you know, the whistle blows and you look and there's a guy

laying in a pool of blood at the red line. Everybody said, what happened? You know Gordy had something to do with it. So, yeah, but like I said, even like because I met Alex, I've asked him a number of times doing some things when he was chasing Gordy's 801 record this year. And I said, Alex is such a big physical presence, but the league has taken away some of his, even a couple weeks ago he had a hit and you know they were saying is it a something that he should be suspended for well he's a big physical man that's part of the intimidation and that's one of the reasons Gordy scored a lot of goals people were intimidated they're you're you're hesitant to do certain things well if you're

going to get the puck and like if I'm going to get it at 185 and Alex is coming to crush me and he's 235, 240, yeah, it makes a difference. But when the game takes that away from you, it takes away your overall effectiveness a little bit. So it's part of the game. And I think a lot of that game has been taken away from some guys. You know, one of the things I marveled the most about you

going to training camp with you is watching you take a pair of skates out of a box and then skating with them the first time in the morning and then playing with them that night it took me months to break into pair of skates

when I was back the skates I used to wear, oh my God, I think of the Easton skates, and before that I had some CCM, but a lot of them were made out of kangaroo leather. So they were soft. Once these companies went to all these new skates, I hate them. I used to cram my foot into skates.

So I wore a seven and a half skate and wore a nine and a half shoe. I went through, I went through a lot of toenails over the course of a year, but I didn't like to tie my skates up very much. So my skates were barely tied on. And so I just jammed my, my feet in there. But, but when I retired, I said, well, I'm going to get a comfy pair of skates that I would need if I got to run some clinics or do different things. So I went and went to a sporting goods store, and I went and I found the cheapest pair of

skates. They were $35. I bought a size 8, and they're absolutely wonderful. So you can take them. You can warp them. I cannot wear, and I hate the new, I know they're better, but to me it's like wearing a cast. I like my ankles to be able to move right, left, up, and down.

And it would take me, like, because I would never skate before training camp. I maybe skated one day. That would be it. And by day three, then my ankles were strong again. And I just think it's from all the training I did on a bike that kept your ankles strong. I was lucky. I was fortunate I was a natural skater.

Oh, yeah, you were. Yeah, but I wanted to beef up my legs and get as strong as I could be. Then, you know, hopefully it would last through the season. Lasted right to the Hall of Fame. Hey, Howie, loved having you on i love the feedback all the best in raising money for the how foundation uh through your auction thanks for joining us well no thanks yeah so i hope uh yeah i hope it works out well so like i said the more we can

raise the more we can do to uh uh to help the youth of the kids here in North America. And I know, like I said, I know it would make Gordy and Colleen extremely proud. Sure has. Thank you so much. Have a great day. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

It's Mark Harl, Hall of Famer. And here we are going into training camp, and, you know, we've been skating. Like, okay, what are you going to take off when your season ends? Two weeks, three weeks, a month, and then it's like bad out of hell in the gym, on the ice, and then he skates once and is the best guy out there. I think we've established I don't drink anymore, but I do want to sit down with Mark and sit at a pub with him

for a few hours, get some stories. I wouldn't mind dusting a couple of punts. You know, for a guy who's all skill yeah and if i think of defensemen in my era when i broke into the league playing today i look at scott stevens and go well that guy'd be suspended all day long and then i think of a guy like mark howe who would seem seamlessly play today right i i remember mark howe like i i watch uh quinn hughes and what's crazy is mark howe just said that he would like doesn't like to see the game the way you're talking about yes yeah which i've i've found surprising i first off love that answer

really nice to not have someone come on here and go well the players today are just so good like yeah we know we know they're good good for mark to be like hey it's not as fun to watch everyone's good it's pretty uniform i think there's definitely an element of accuracy to what he's saying about the way the nhl is listen 82 games and these kids are not stupid today what do i want to kill myself in november december january um i'll just save it to when it matters or last night when we need to send a message going into game one and then he spoke of it the game game that we sell starting Monday or Tuesday is not the same product that we really sell during the regular season. No.

It's not. To the point where we can tell you that we're going to throw in a three-on-three or a shootout and say it's for entertainment reasons, but if we ever think that we're going to tell the league that we should bring it into the playoffs, they go, no, that's not as good.

We'll never let that cheesy crap and our game to decide a Stanley cup, bite your tongue on a three on three or a shootout when it matters most. And it's like, Hey, but I don't know if you've noticed, but you're selling two different sports. There's no doubt. You just can't play 82 games. You cannot play 82 games at the intensity of the playoffs.

The NFL plays 17 times now. 16. No, 17. With a bye week, it's 18 weeks. 18 weeks. They play 17 games now. 17 games. Play a week for each car crash.

You get peak intensity every week. The NHL could play 50 games and give you an awesome season. It just can't financially. So you're going to get Columbus versus the Blackhawks in January, and that's just the price you got to pay. And he was one of the best on the blue line. I remember him and the late Kelly McCrimmon teaming up as the best defensive pair. I think one year, Mark Howe was like plus 90.

Yeah. Right? And Beast, god bless him uh just absolutely loved being paired up with with mark yeah listen to this stretch of plus minus for uh for mark how this is when he first got to the 47, 30, 51, 85, 57, 23. Yeah, the team did better when he played. Like the middle of plus minus to me is the least telling stat. But when you are plus 85 in an NHL season, doing a lot of good things.

I wonder what the leader is this year. And he was as skilled as anybody out there. And it's the skill that made him, but he had such an appreciation for the Rick Tocketts of the world and Ed Hospodar and Daryl Stanley and all the guys that went out there and created room for him. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome.

And that's what he valued. Just looking at current plus minus, the top guy in the league is plus 50 top three guys are all boston bruins lindholm grizzly carlo or one two three and plus minus in the nhl yep uh and pasternak's in the top top 10 as well plus 35 um other other end of the scale what's uh is is connor up there connor's got to be plus 30 no i don't think 25 where's mcdavid i think he's like matthews is plus 31 he's 13 i think mcdavid's just over like the even mark like i don't think it's no i think it is yes kipper not even well he's got all his points he's a mcpower play you know i like that i've heard that one nathan mckinnon's having an unbelievable season this year. 1.55 points per game, 107 points in 69 games.

He's plus 27. I'm scrolling, man. I can't find our boy Connor. So he must be plus 22. Plus 22. Okay. Not even. He's 44th in the league.

It's respectable. He's tied with Timothy Lilligren, by the way. For a team that struggled to keep the puck out of their net, that's pretty darn good. So you mentioned Quinn Hughes there. Did you see the quote from Jack Hughes last night? No. Was it Matthew Nyes?

I'm super confident. No, he said Jack Hughes was asked how he thinks his parents will celebrate his record-breaking night. I don't know what record he broke. Maybe the Devil's Point record. I think it is. And Luke's NHL debut. Probably sitting on the couch watching Quinn play. The favorite son?

Guess so. Guess that tells you a lot. That's a hilarious one. He also said of Luke, he's like, he's going to be a big part of this when we're playing for Cups over the next few years. Like, yeah, the Devils playing for Cups. Maybe they will be. Can I tell you?

These guys. I'm going to say we're doing okay. I'd say we're doing okay. We're on a heater. We're on a bit of a heater oh i don't know he's gotta be if he can carry it well he's at 97 points he's makes eight million he's worried he's allowed to be extremely confident but i don't have to like it if you can wear it yeah um i think but he's probably, they're really good. And they're in their first year of being really good. They're definitely going to be. Are they, it's Rangers? Is that still slated?

It's not confirmed yet. Right now. No, I know that. With a game left each, Carolina at 111, New Jersey at 110, the Rangers at 107. So Devils and Carolina both have a chance to win the division. If Carolina beats Florida tomorrow, it's theirs. If they lose, the Devils got to beat Washington. You do not want that 2-3 matchup against the Rangers

because the Rangers are winning that 2-3 matchup. You heard it here first. Hmm. Can they play physical or are they just going to outskate you? No. Jersey. I don't think so. They got that good fourth line, the BMW line, Bastion, McLeod, and Wood. They're good. Otherwise, I don't see Jersey. I don't think so. They got that good fourth line, the BMW line,

Bastion, McLeod, and Wood. They're good. Otherwise, I don't see it. I don't see their... No, you don't. You don't see them upsetting the Rangers. No. Well, the Rangers would be upsetting the Rangers.

Listen, I'm wrong a lot, but that's my opinion. We talk for two hours every day. That's why they paired you with us. That's right. We talk for two hours every single day. We're wrong a lot. Yeah, give a lot of opinions. That's my opinion.. That's right. We talk for two hours every single day. We're on the line. Yeah.

Give a lot of opinions. That's my opinion. Yeah. All right. Let's go to break. We got like a bunch of clips still to play. We got feuds to get to. Yeah.

And we got to get into Ryan Hartman, who's having a hearing for a hit. Officially suspended for a game. One game? Yeah. Okay. They were like playoffs in two games. It's one. They're not taking them away. But he deserved a game. Officially suspended for a game. One game? Yeah. Okay. They were like playoffs in two games? It's one. They're not taking him away. But he deserved a game. Okay, we'll get into the

hit last night and Evanston and and... Bonus. Rick Bonus. Bonus, are you going to go fight? You're 67. You're going to go fight Evanston? I don't know how old he is, but... Evanston's a scary looking guy. Evanston was like, yeah, you're invited. Come on over. Anytime, pal. Meet me in the tunnel, Tortorella style. Memories of old he is but evanson's scary looking evanson was like yeah you're invited come on anytime pal

meet me in the tunnel of tortorella style memories of uh of barry melrose yeah uh la and toronto with pat burns one of the all-time great clips one of the best i had my junior coach shuffle across the glass between the benches to get in the other bench once and also go into the hallway behind the benches to fight the other coach yeah he was great oh my god sounds like a delight i had a junior coach buddy yeah it was always funny too because i had paul holmgren as a coach and there's a guy that uh i didn't see too many coaches giving him the hairy eyeball yeah he's an intimidating fellow. Very intimidating. Okay, we'll take a quick break.

Mike Futa. Yes, Fute is back. Yes. We're going to talk Leafs, and we'll talk LA Kings as well. Their chances. Are they dwindling? Nah, they're good. Does it shine off?

To be honest, I have no idea what they've been up to lately. Okay, we're going to find out after the break. Mike fiuta on the real kipper and born show after these words everything you need to know about the blue jays blair and barker be sure to subscribe and download the show on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts this is real kipper and born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Nick Kiprio, Justin Bourne, Derek Brandeo, David Sespumba, Sammy McKee, and Mike Fugue. Fugue. We need like a Lou-like chant for him. and Mike Fuse. Fuse.

We need like a Lou-like chant for him. Did you get that when you walked into, you know, all those big games in L.A. at the Staples Center? No. No. Well, they should have. Should we try something? I got a couple of boos when I...

No, never feuds, but I learned to live with it. Kept rising to the ovation. I saw the ovation you got the other night when you came out to the military, guys. So are you on like the Leafs and just cruising towards the end of the regular season or you bringing juice to game 82? You know, I mean, I caught a little baseball last night. Saw the typical Toronto

sports fan. I was thinking about the Leafs and what they've got coming up. You know, you've got Manoa who gets beat up in the first inning and the fans are like humming around like, can this guy still pitch? The belt guy goes through the lineup for the introductions and everybody's like, like can this guy still pitch and then the belt guy goes through the warm-up through the hand the lineup for the introductions and everybody's like wonderful 26 he sucks and then three hits later

he's up for mayor it's the glory of the toronto sports fan so i mean it was something i mean i watched again i watched the tape relief game so i watched it then i mean i agree with you that team right now is they seem really poised in a good spot. And hopefully, you know, they can remain healthy because Tampa Bay right now is, even, and you guys probably know better than I, if General is out, it's kind of like in the past when the Leafs' next man up hasn't been really exciting.

The next guy coming in, if it was a Marinson coming in, if Muzzin gets injured, the next guy coming in for an injury for Tampa isn't really exciting. The next guy coming in, if it was a Marinson coming in, if Muzzin gets injured, the next guy coming in for an injury for Tampa isn't really exciting. And I mean, I drafted Mikey Eisenman in Los Angeles, and he's a very skilled, soft player who, in the way this team, this series is shaping up. I mean, if that's the replacement for, you know, then I, I really think the Leafs can exploit these guys,

especially if they get on them early at home. Did you take anything out of last night's game, Fuchs? Do you think that's just a meaningless game? Cooper said it had less intensity than a regular season game. He called it an exhibition season game. Do you think it mattered? Yeah, I do. Not in a sense of like a game changer,

but I like the fact that I like what Shen did. I liked the fact that there was some physical elements that show that this team looks like they can play a little bit, a little bit harder. Um, I was really surprised that Vasilevsky played, um, uh, in that game. I just think it, it just, if anything you can take from that is that with a, you know, a watered down team, you beat Vasilevsky. Now, obviously, he's still going to be a different goaltender in the playoffs, you would think.

But I was very surprised they would give up that mental edge, so to speak, having him in that even for injury purposes. But it was good to see. I mean, I'm still really looking at this lineup and what's going to come out of the gate in game one. I mean, because it appears they're relatively healthy. And when you start, I know you guys break down, you've had months to break down the lines and stuff. There's some pretty interesting, especially if Janot's not in the lineup, they're going to have some interesting decisions

because Shen is bringing a physical element that I like. But the Gustafson kid, any game I've been at, their power play is completely different when he's running it. So there'll be some interesting decisions for sure. And I'm not, I know we've broken, and I'd love to hear your guys' thoughts on Nyes or Nese, but I'm not quite sure whether he's earned game one start status as much as I think it's great that they've got a prospect moving forward.

I wouldn't be just throwing them the keys to the factory yet coming game one of the playoffs with some of the you know feuds we were talking about this earlier and you know Sheldon selling that you know he he actually used the term he's earned you know something here and we've been around the game long enough to know that you're you're plucking a guy out of college and then putting him in. There's not enough time to earn anything. You're either given the opportunity or you're not.

Now, can he take advantage of it? Has he as early as last night? Yeah, there's something there for sure. But do you go all this way to put yourself in a tough predicament with your salary cap to the point where you're almost embarrassed to put two teenagers in net only to have the league rebound and change their minds? If you're not intending to really give him a chance to start game one,

they are forcing this thing in many ways to that direction, are they not? to really give him a chance to start game one. They are forcing this thing in many ways to that direction, are they not? I don't, and again, part of the negotiations always with us when we had an elite college kid was that he was going to get games, right? If he lost out, he was going to get games, particularly if we already knew where we were in the playoffs or whatever you're actually in your playoff spot so i think this is invaluable for him but i just don't when i look at the potential for who could be out of the lineup uh and again i mean i think he's going

to be better than a lot of the guys that are going to that could play ahead of him against game one two three years from now or maybe even next year but i just think the makeup of the team rain um i i still like o'reilly in the three hole um starting in game one with a line that's a little bit more deep you know can still score and you know he plays in the first unit power play but i i just i don't know i just don't think there's enough there just to look at another guy and say you know you've been through the whole battle, you're sitting out tonight. Now, whether they decide, I was looking at the names, the 12 and 6 is a tough one when you think about the defenseman that has to come out.

In my lineup, I've got Lilligan out and the other seven competing for first base, depending on how much you want Gustafson to be a part of that first power play unit. But it'll be something. But, I mean mean I would be going with the guys that have been through the complete battles and wars all season long and then it's easier to bring Knives into the to the fold if need be or if you need to make a change throughout the series. Do you think the players would have some issue with Nyes coming in? You mentioned the guys being there all year.

Kipper, I think you have kind of implied that maybe some guys would take umbrage with that. Personally, I would feel like I just want the best players to play. We want to win this thing. But do you have to worry about Aston Reese and Lafferty and how they feel and the guys around them feel about that treatment well i think they're all in uh i mean i think that's where guys like o'reilly and the leadership group and muzzin are going to have to really pull things together with regards to guys nose getting out of joint um but i for me score two goals against the rangers and then put a little doubt that hey there's something I'm bringing something that's so much better

than these veterans that are going to be in suits that it's easier for me to take, not just whatever. I'm, you know, Matthew's a buddy from Arizona, and this kid's going to be a great player. And he's been, like, this series is about the Leafs getting through a round. And hopefully for the city, more than that. It's not about is Matthew Nyes as good as we've spoken about. He's a piece of this puzzle now, and he's interchangeable for me

from what I've seen at this point in the year, without question. We're talking to Mike Fiuta, former NHL executive Sportsnet hockey analyst. As far as, I know we mentioned John Cooper a little earlier, but you know, you've been on the other side of a, of a proud executive team. Would you have been slated by John Cooper with his comments about that sort

of stuff? Or does he get the benefit of the doubt going to three Stanley cup finals? He gets, I mean, I think he gets the benefit of the doubt. I think sometimes there's guys and there's a little bit of Paul Maurice doing that

too. Sometimes guys are so eloquent that they forget what they're saying at times because there's so much polish and everything that comes out has a purpose that sometimes you go a little further than you'd like. But, I mean, as I said, this is a guy that's gone to three Finals, two Cups, and never won a Jack Adams.

So I think he's got some pretty ultimate respect around the league. But you don't want to get off on too many tangents this close to the play. I think he's looking at this team, and it's certainly not a team like in the past. They're probably a little bit more depth, a little bit more not just open the gate, but you have so much depth that it's not as tough a team it's tough a team to coach i think this team is really going to have to like i think sheldon and cooper are going to play a big part in who wins the series as well not just the players coming out of the gate so to get off the toronto maple leaves here because we've spent a lot of time on them looking around the league a little bit huge loss last night for the penguins a like they they lose to

the blackhawks chicago's off a back to back so their second game with travel pittsburgh's at home waiting must win game they lose five to two what uh what's up in pittsburgh there feuds what's you know like i don't know what comes next but what's going on bernie how how how many times do we sit beside this it's out between calgary and pittsburgh yeah did we sit sit there on the air and say, it's coming. It's still going to come. It's going to come. Exactly.

And it's like they couldn't seem to get, I mean, between the squabbling, between Daryl's actions, his press conferences and his stuff early and how obviously he was trying to be a lot more positive later. I mean, last night, just when you need Tristan Jari to be outstanding, you know, again, just seeing the highlights, there are some pretty shaky-looking goals for a team that needs to win a game against a team that should be trying to get the dart and the sweepstakes. And it's amazing how two teams, I mean, I know I did.

I picked both teams to make the playoffs going away, and they both have their seasons, you know, inexplicably shattered by teams that are not even in a playoff picture. And it almost sums up exactly what both team seasons have been like. And the funny thing is, neither one of the teams can really look like, when you look even like the Leafs to a certain extent, Boston out of the gate, neither one of them had, like they had some injuries,

but it's not like they had superstars out for long periods of time. I heard today someone say this is the first season Malkin's played a full 82. Panning had his issues early. But holy smokes, this team is there something should have been and that's probably one

who knows with the new ownership group there, how it's taken. Do we know? I mean, I would assume Charlotte will find a way to beat the Pabs tonight, but it's just been painful to watch those teams be so mediocre and still have their players. Like Crosby had a very, very good year, but that last night was just painful.

It was painful to watch the Calgary Flames throw it all up a couple nights ago against another team that's not in the playoffs. It's frustrating to watch. I know these teams are playing with house money, but you've got to find a way to win a game that puts you in the playoffs when your season was built around must-make playoffs. So I think both those teams have some soul-searching to do.

It'll be interesting tonight. Imagine tonight. Imagine tonight, I know what it was like in Los Angeles with Daryl. I do understand that Wolf and their college players, Coronado and Pelton, are now going to be in the lineup tonight. Now that one will just not... That'll be... That would

have probably involved some chloroform and an arm bar on Daryl to get those guys in the game. Whether or not it's not, but you know what Imbar on Darryl to get those guys in the game. Whether it matters or not. But you know what I mean. It's just hard to watch those teams at this stage of the year when you think, you know, when you think, how are these teams not in the playoffs?

And they only have themselves to blame for it. That's for sure. It'll be interesting to see the Fenway group and where they go moving forward. A lot of heat feuds on Ron Hextall and what he was able or not able to do. And was this a classic example of just kind of dipping your toe in the water at the trade deadline for him where you want to think about your future,

but you also have the fact that you've got Crosby, Malkin, and LeTank still presumably in their prime, and he got caught in the middle. I think the only significant thing he did was he traded for Grandland, and I think it was a second round pick if I'm not mistaken but this is a guy that I think has two more

years still at over five million dollars and I don't know if he scored two goals since the trading the trade here but that's one of those either you're in or you're out scenarios is it not? 100% and again by the fact that i mean i

think even sid said that i've got three years here left and then shortly after that you know that his two big boys are resigned and i think it's hard to have it both way once you make that significant amount you know and i and it's again okay like the bruins go all in but i mean you're talking huge dough left on this with these guys that they just resigned, like they're big boys, like Gino and the tank, like the Bruins guys came back for pennies on the dollar, right? So it's whether they decide to stick around after the dance this year, but the Penguins guys didn't come back for pennies on the dollar.

They came back for big, big tickets. So it's hard to make the team better. You all of a sudden have, you've got, the same thing's probably going to happen, I would think, in Washington to a certain extent, because you've got a small window here where it's all about Ovi, and what do you do? You can't really rebuild around these guys. So

you've got to almost go all in, and you've got to find a way to creatively get better goaltending and get another defenseman, and for sure, the one thing I just didn't understand about the Pittsburgh situation is because of Berkey and Hexie to not have some physical element in that lineup with the way those two guys run their teams

just catches me off guard with regards to their roster construction. That's for sure. Yeah. So how about the other two horses in that three-horse race for the playoff spots,ida and the islanders you know could there be ramifications if the isles don't make playoffs and then looking at florida just you know we kind of had them written off they win their game tomorrow they could finish two points behind tampa bay on their season kind of a late late season push here well obviously the guy who runs the Islanders

has got an incredible track record, Hall of Famer. Eventually, some of these teams, I would think there's got to be ramifications other than just promoting somebody that's already on the current staff and actually get out there and actually have some interviews

to see if you can actually rebuild your team with some people with some fresh ideas, but it's, it all depends if they put themselves in that situation. We'd also talk to her here that Shroken as a, as a world-class goaltender that has the ability to maybe take them to get them on a run. Cause they're a hard team to play against. They're not that overly fun to watch, but they're a hard team to play against. I don't know where Brazil's status is.

They could make some noise with Shroken and that if they get in, but again, But again, you're one – so what would happen if Calgary had won that two games? I mean, and Calgary had got into the playoffs. I don't know whether that's going to change where that relationship is with coach and general manager at this point. And that will be interesting as well, how that moves forward. But I do think there's certain teams with the expectations that they had that there's probably going to be some ramifications for not getting in

or even getting, not going far or losing out in the first round, so to speak. And it'll be, it'll be, just should be very intense hockey to watch down the stretch. And it's funny right now because probably the two teams

playing their best hockey are Canadian teams, which is exciting. So if Edmonton can keep on their run and the Leafs doing what they're doing, you know, who knows? There could be some fun down the road here for Canadian hockey fans as well. But as we all know, there's certain teams that have got to figure it out. There's no etched in stone that they've got to get it done in the first round,

even if they, you know, they've been sitting there they've been they've been in the playoffs for like three months they've known who they're playing so it'll be interesting feuts in the west is have the jets turned it around enough to convince you that they could be a very dangerous team now in the first round as long as as long as helen buck's playing the way he is there's hope i just don't see't see – if Colorado gets in, like, I mean, if all of a sudden they get a Vegas or something and there's some injuries and Stone doesn't come back, there's a little – and Hellenbach just has the ability to do what he's doing.

But they've been so streaky, Kipper, that it's like you get the taste of what they're doing now looks great, but if they go in one of those funks and they get down a couple games in the playoffs, they really show them the wherewithal to come back and want to come back. If you've got some players that are planning their exit strategies, it's hard to mentally will yourself in the playoffs. Now, I think Hellenbach has put them on his shoulders here

the last 13 games, and everything looks good. They seem to be getting their health back, and they do have a big body. I mean, guys like Lowry play a playoff style hockey, but as long as you have a hell of a buck, it's possible, but I don't like anybody playing Colorado if they're healthy and Landis Cudd comes back

and McCarty's healthy. I just think the first round, they'll shred whoever they play again. Okay, one more for me before I let you go, and that is, you mentioned it mark stone skating if he happens to show up for game one are we going to hear a lot of tampa bay kucherov whining and complaining yeah 100 they should and but it's whatever it's the it's the cba i mean it's it's I think you even look at the Leafs situation

I mean Stone skating I mean Landis Cog skating all these guys are waiting and you know at this point it's not they couldn't do it they couldn't do it salary cap wise to get a guy in because obviously they'd like some of these players to get a couple you know performances in before the big show starts but it is

what it is I mean I talked about that with Landis Cog I talked about that I mean Kucherov was probably the best example starts, but it is what it is. I mean, I talked about that with Landis Cog. I talked about that. I mean, Kucherov was probably the best example of it, but that's the way the CBN is. He's still going to complain, but they've got to go out and he's got to perform. That's for sure. I mean, they complain the most because Tampa won.

So if he comes back and they lose, nobody's going to complain. But if they come back and go on a run, we'll hear about it. But it's not like it's yesterday's news. It's been done already. I've got to ask Kippers, do you think the big thing for – do you think Marner will play on Thursday night? Yes. Yeah, he's got to get that.

It's got to mean a lot to the 100-point thing. Yes. And I just think that the way he's played this year, it's been – and I know you're obviously a big fan and sometimes you think he's a key for it, but every player that he's played this year, it's been, and I know you're obviously a big fan, and sometimes it takes heat for it, but every player that he's played with this year, he's made spectacularly better. I hope we can translate it over the playoffs

because it'd be fun to watch. He's had a great year. He just needs one, right? Just needs one. Just one. Yeah, that'll be a prime shame if he doesn't get it. I don't expect... So if he gets one, you then sit him for the rest of the game?

Rangers aren't playing for anything either, so... Can you load manage on the bench? Yeah, you can. You can just take his equipment off. You can act like a starting pitcher pulled in the third inning. Connor Timmons can play 35 minutes. I don't think he can. Au contraire, my friend. Oh, yeah. We haven't even mentioned that. Yeah. Connor

Timmons on the right side. All right, boots. We'll let you go. And we'll, uh, we're going to lean on you heavily in that first round, pal. I hope so. Thanks guys. Have a good one. Okay. Mike Fuda, former NHL executive and, uh, doing a terrific job on sportsnet uh okay connor timmons on right side can i say something he's definitely a better defense he's a better defenseman than he is a winger that's for sure that was like a fish out of water it was hilarious hilarious poor guy when the last time you think he played forward i i don't know i look they're trying to get his cardio up i get it you gotta like almost have to go out there and draw him arrows on the ice and just you know what you just gotta be a third defenseman you gotta be f3 you

gotta be stay low till the puck's out of your zone just pretend you're a slightly aggressive defense there was one moment in the game i don't know if you saw it, but he had the puck like at the blue line, and he had a guy like flat-footed, and he had the puck like in the toe-drag position, and I was like, oh, no way. And he just dumped it in. Simmer, she called that out in the broadcast. No, it was not Simmer.

It was the other guy. Oh, yeah, yeah. But, yeah, no, it was like he had a second where he considered a toe-drag into the middle, and he's like, I'm going to dump it second where he considered a toe drag into the middle. And he's like, I'm going to dump it in. You know what? That's the right choice.

Correct. That's the right choice. Well, in a game that means nothing in the standings and your coach is like, hey, man, you have to play forward tonight. We would be burying him if he turned over a toe drag in the neutral zone. Saying that, give me the odds that T tim and starts on right wing in game one i think it's sideways eight yeah there's no way that's happening boys yeah um just to follow up on on pittsburgh last night it's a shame they've been around tell us who they are they they broke into the league what in like early 70s google it would you i think it was 19 i think pittsburgh and st louis came in at the same time did they not 1969 1967 1967 thank you five teams if if i had asked you to give me five of the franchise's worst losses in history,

I bet you couldn't come up with four before last night's game. It was an AHL team with half of jonathan taves and tyler johnson and on a back-to-back hoping to tank for bedard and couldn't muster up enough offense to win gave up four goals before the empty netter yeesh boys i bet you there's some broken stuff in the manager's booth, in the president's box, whatever you call it. Like you... We'll find out as early as tonight

if their game Thursday means anything. And if it doesn't, ugh. You have to play that game, show up at the rink. I don't generally like having conversations like this but i don't see a world where ron hexdahl stays with that fenway group no i hear you kip it's really tough it's tough to see them looking at this season after just giving money to these guys pushing in making trades at the deadline for this year and going still couldn't get in and that turtle turtle race, you know, they're at 90 points.

The best they can do is 92. Not good enough. And what do you do to rebound this? If it is Ron Hextall who stays or a new general manager next year, where do you begin here? And if you're Sidney Crosby where what kind of kind of feedback do you give the ownership group or the general manager september on could we not be the smallest team in the league how do we fix this where you start you say hey we are literally the

smallest team in the nhl could we start by being competitive physically? So Mike Futa just mentioned this moments ago about like, this is not, like, this might be the biggest proof that this Brian Burke has nothing to do with this. This was all Ron Hextall. This is not a Brian Burke team as we've known him over the years no i agree this does not reflect his preferences in a hockey team you know maybe they get in even if they do i just think you look at this year and go even if you felt luck your way in you couldn't muster it up when it mattered.

Yeah. I'm, yeah. And Sid's been okay. He's been great at 90 plus points. He does, but I don't think he's scored down the stretch here. He might have won in seven or eight games. He had a couple the other night, but other than that, yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? It's like it kind of dried up on everybody.

And as good as Sid still is, he can't overcome. He's not Connor McDavid anymore. He can't drag a bad team to good. Or make them bigger and tougher and stronger to drive lanes open. But it's real now. or make them bigger and tougher and stronger to drive lanes open. But it's real now. No OV and no Sid, potentially. And Pittsburgh fans are mad, mad, mad.

Last night was just gut-wrenching for them. Yeah, it sucks. It makes me feel, maybe not old, but maybe it does make me feel a little bit old that we've come to the point where Sidney Crosby and Alex Ovechkin's team suck enough for neither of them to be in the playoffs. Like, these guys were on dominant teams for my entire 20s. Like, they were just like, they were the two studs. Every year their team, when Wensid was healthy, they were in the playoffs when he was, it just sucks they're not around. Sucks. So quickly go to Cap Friendly because I think.

I'm on it. I think, whoa. I think Malkin and Letang got contracts to match Sid's. Malkin's is one year longer. One year longer, Malkin's is what, two years longer? So what does Sid have? Letang's still 28. Three years left.

This and two more. This and two more. This and two more. Okay, so he has two more after this. Yeah. Okay. At 8-7. Thank you. They miss the playoffs as early as tonight, we find out.

Oh boy, we're trading Sid. Here we go. Yeah. Give me a scenario where you envision Sidney Crosby now looking at his next two years and what he wants out of them. I've heard he's always wanted to be a Leaf. Can you get serious here? Sorry, I'll bear down. We're really close to ending the show.

But I want to hear your opinion on Sidney Crosby missing the playoffs for the first time since when? His rookie year. There you go. Yeah. So he's made 16 straight playoffs. That sucks. What he envisions now.

Does he really? Does he look at Taves and go, no, not doing that. First of all, there's not a chance that pittsburgh would ever treat sid like chicago treated kane and taves these last few years how have they treated them well you you purposely killed your team how about that sure and but with the telling them and like do you want to be a part of the team death was that i feel like they were looped in on that. Yeah, I don't think they were. Yeah.

I don't get that feeling. The Doc trade remains the shocking one for me. The difference is, and I'm sure the feedback was there from Sid, is get Malkin back, get Letang back. For sure. But they just didn't go far enough for him. But getting back to my original question to you is,

where do you see Sid on the next two years of this deal? Well, I guess that depends. Let's say they do fire Ron Hextall and bring in someone new. You know, is that person also going to say we're all in? Well, these guys are here and, you know, push all their chips in for now? In that case, I see Sid sticking around. If they try to do a retool, I just watching Jonathan Taves on that Blackhawks team, man, it's not right. Sad.

It's not right. It was sad. He can't get up and down the ice. First of all, there's something physically not there. Well, he has long COVID. Yeah, I know. He has, you know, whatever. Yeah.

Chronic immune response whatever yeah and it's it's gotten to the point where like he shouldn't be playing yeah he may be done but yeah you can't see sid you know the penguins are in 25th spot and open a tank for the next kid and sid's just happily gutting it out you know he's gonna try to get as many cups as he can he's lebron right like he's hyper competitive how much does he want to be the same team whole career guy though does that play in i will say this to you sammy in my world i i don't want to see sid in another uniform he is born and raised and should shut it down in a Pittsburgh Penguin uniform. So what is he supposed to do if the team isn't trying to win Stanley Cups?

I think the most likely outcome is two more years, plays out his contract, and he's gone. Disappears. He's living on a beach with Andy Dufresne. You're talking about shutting it down. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's more realistic. Like, he's going to go and live in Cape Breton? Go out to his colossal house in...

34? Nova Scotia? 35. 35 is what you said? Mm-hmm. 35. He turned 35? No, he turns 36 in August.

If Sid wanted to play another three or four years years I think he could if new management came in or the ownership group came in and said I can still help you win a Stanley Cup I think you can stay I don't think you can hire anyone who wants to do anything other than try to win while Sidney's there exactly which is why you can't be bringing um you can't bring in kyle davidson and tear it down yeah or kyle dubas for that matter who wants to start over or something but like the penguins still have they're missing two picks next year they have picks in the first third fifth sixth and seventh round almost all their well picks in the setting they have they fifth, sixth, and seventh round. Almost all the picks in the setting.

They could move picks. They can get aggressive. The Granlin thing is atrocious. That was the worst trade. Two more years after this one at $5 million. Yeah. And I can't remember him being overly effective in a long time. And I don't.

Raquel's $5 million until 2028. You know who's battling right now is Petrie and Jeff Carter. Yeah, there's some bad ones. They're not getting anything out of those guys now. Carter's making 3-1 next year. Brian Rust is a good player, but he makes 5.1 until 2027, 2028. Boy. They need some value guys boy in the year 2025 25 26 when um when sydney crosby is done with

the penguins he'll sign for 750k with the leaps to be their latest veteran here's another question for you while you're on it on salary cap like what does sid make next year it's something ridiculously low yeah real dollars what's his salary next year three million three million this year three million that's embarrassing spending three this year too is that worth it for him to stick around he's practically broke he's only made 141 million dollars in his career no seriously do you eat a crap sandwich next year missing the playoffs again for three3 million if you're Sid? Yep.

Oh, if you're Sid. I don't know. I was like, if you're Sid. I was like, yes. I'll eat a literal crap sandwich for $3 million. You're not Sid. You're not considered one of the best hockey players to ever play. Yeah.

Are you suggesting he would retire? I don't know. I hate that part, that knowing that we got a star still in our game. You just don't. Who's done so much for the game and he's making 3 million bucks. Have his level of success. If you're not hyper competitive, you cannot do it. And you don't sit on a losing team because you like wearing, you know, one color your whole career.

I'll be honest. It affected how I felt about ryan getzlaff at the end of his career just being like my family's happier i'll need to try to win i'm never gonna fault the guy for being like i'm gonna stay in california okay well i'm different i you know i feel like trying to win cups is the goal playing in the league but sometimes i could see like a guy like who did I see the other day? Like, Rick Tockett. And he was in a Boston Bruin uniform.

I'm like, oh, man. I don't remember. Did he play for Boston? See, that's the thing. He doesn't have. I don't remember him. It's a blip that never happened unless you read work. You know?

And mostly it's just like, yeah, you forget it. You know, Brett Hall wore Arizona Coyotes. What? Brett Hall, when you think of Brett Hall, what's the first jersey you think of? Blues. Kipper? Brett Hall? Yeah.

Blues. I think this is maybe about my age, but the first one that comes to mind is Stars. Yeah, that's an age thing. Really? 100%. Sam's 33. Brett Hall would have played for the Stars when he was 18 or something. When they were just sperm back then.

Yeah. Yeah, but it's funny. Maybe we do this as a segment. Player and then the jersey you think of. You like that idea? Yeah. No, I hate it. No, no, it's a popular well-done segment, but I like it.

Did you like Gretzky in St. Louis? Were you born? Yeah. Absolutely not. I think of Gretzky Kings. Okay. That's my first hockey memory is Gretzky high stick and like my dad's reaction to that that's like my first first hockey memory really yeah i'm like did he cry like

you no but he said word that he shouldn't have said for sure the word that's two bucks in the swear jar oh yeah yeah yeah is that a one yeah all right anything else you got any thoughts on buffalo uh but the kaiyakes and Kings are playing in Australia next year. Does that interest you? Short straw. Like, can we just pick something instead of just throwing darts all over the place? Like Melbourne? You know, like the-

Well, listen, I get it. But, like, I don't know. Can we just focus on growing international hockey? How about a best on best somewhere? Closer. Shout out to my cuz Jason Juba in Australia. He'll get to go watch. And then what? And then wait four years and go back?

And then have all the players angry on their flight, having to fly home and play a hockey game again in like three days it sucks and it's like they're sending the coyotes oh crikey it's the youths i love this sport they're british not bad it's not good i can't wait to watch this is a hockey stick you have seen crocodile dundeeundee. Yeah, of course. Yeah. All right. I wouldn't say I know it well, but I've seen it.

You've seen memes. That's not a knife. Now we're doing an impression. Yeah, we are. Sabres, I think there's probably a better taste in their mouth at the end of this year in terms of their future. But 12 straight seasons out of the playoffs. That is bad.

12 straight. I like their new goalie, levi i've watched a couple games recently kid looks like he's gonna be did you see his um in between kind of commercial breaks he doesn't go to the bench he just goes to the the slot area and he starts praying that's like uh sorokin does that it was um it's different sorokin doesn't go to the bench either. He gets in a ball in front of the net. You know, I just love Marc-Andre Fleury. Like, he's got to look at guys like that and be like, hey, it's not that serious. You know, like, you got to be present, be in the moment.

You know, I don't know. Doesn't work for everybody, though. Sitting up in the clouds there mentally. I'm sure it is a focus thing. Does the Sabres make the playoffs next year, you think? Some good questions, actually. i like that question i yeah um you gotta assume are they gonna do something you you gotta assume though if say or when for you sammy tampa loses in the first round when i whoa what you say when for me well yeah because i've been trying to help you i've been

the only guy in here of all you guys are saying that tampa sucks and there's no way the leafs lose to i'm the only guy that's saying they're not i know but you're you're um you're a wounded animal so i've got scars right you got scars and you're a wounded animal and you still you're the guy that's gonna bet that tamp Tampa wins this series so you can cover your ass. Yeah, Tampa's going to make playoffs this year by five points. But my point is, if they lose, when they lose, they're going to dismantle a lot of those faces, right? There'll be new turnover.

Tampa? You're 10 shows ahead, pal. That should give Buffalo a chance to... Maybe the Bruins will fall off. Maybe the Leafs will get new management and trade everyone. Well, that's off a first-round loss. Yes, indeed. Boys, those shows, if they lose in the first round, I ain't coming in.

All right. Thanks to Hall of Famer Mark Howe and Hall of Famer Mike Fuda, at least according to us. Our show should have a ring of honor, and he'd be in it. We're back tomorrow. Real Kipper and Bourne, thanks for joining us.