Real Kyper & Bourne - Panthers Have Life & Leafs Hire Shane Doan

Episode Date: June 9, 2023

Justin Bourne & Sam McKee open the show with the recent news of Shane Doan being named the Special Advisor to GM Brad Treliving and how quiet the front office has been on Sheldon Keefe. The guys briefly break down last night’s Game 3 victory by the Florida Panthers and the parallel between the Panthers and the Miami Heat. Next up, Luke Fox from Sportsnet.ca joins the show to give his take on Game 3, the importance of Shane Doan’s relationship with Auston Matthews and Matthew Knies and how large an influence Matthews holds over Keefe’s future. To wrap up, the guys talk about Damon Severson being traded to the Columbus Blue Jackets.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Happy Friday everyone and welcome to Real Kipper and Born. You're hearing my voice because Nick Kiprios is away doing very important things today. Definitely not golfing. I'm sure, well I mean I'm sure it's something non-golf related yeah it's definitely not golf two straight non-golf related reasons for parts of the show to not be here all right you called me yesterday so everybody knows where i was that's right so that voice there is your boy sam mckeon studio with me today behind the glass taking a quick

look here we got derrick brandeo we got j. Come back there behind the TV. There's a massive TV in your way. Hi, General. Welcome to everyone today. You know, your standard June edition of Kipper and Bourne where I want to know how was the golf? How was it yesterday? It was fun. I was there. I put in a shift. I arrived at around 830.

I got home around 7. So I was there. I got about 20,000 steps. Walked about 15K. The old dogs were barking. Did you wear a step thing? Yeah. Well, I just wore my Apple Watch or whatever.

But yeah, I was sore by the end of it, I will say. You know, walking 20,000 steps, a lot of up and down. I wore my golf shoes, which some people think is nerdy. Totally nerdy. Why? Well, because it's just, I mean, I'm walking around a golf course. I'm going up hills with grass. It's like, I mean, I'm walking around a golf course. I'm going up hills with grass. It's like, I mean, you know, it's part of the

reason you wear golf shoes when you play golf is for traction when you're walking around. My golf shoes are particularly comfortable. I didn't wear like my, I wore like my running shoe style ones that have a little bit, not like the full on. You didn't wear those ones? No, no. I wore like my older Puma ones, which are really nice, really comfortable. They're more

comfortable. So I wore those. It is funny watching middle-aged white men dress like they might get tapped on the shoulder to join at any given moment i have to tell you about my friend madison who i play golf with every wednesday night and friday night and wednesday night golf league at lakeview shout out he texted the fellas this morning being like i got my range finder he brought it to the tournament so he's got his range finder and he's like wow and he's taking pictures and sending to the group chat and being like he's about 217 i'm like i don't care what soon mung bay is out here drop him from the group so the guy brought he forgot his sunglasses,

but brought his range finder to the golf tournament today. That is exceptional performance. We were laughing pretty hard about that. Yeah, that's good. Well, our boy Connors, did he end up in the mix still? Yeah, he's minus six. I think the leader's minus seven or eight. But yeah, he's minus six.

I think he's one under today through two or three. So be fun to have a Canadian near the final pairing. It would be. I would love for Oakdale to hold up and give us a good event here. You know, I heard some of the traffic issues were perilous yesterday. You know, you can tune into City News 680 if you want to hear all the traffic while it's around there. But, yeah, it's a bit of a, like, right beside the entrance of the course,

there's a huge construction zone. And it's, like, down to, like, one lane, and cars are piling through there, there's a huge construction zone. Yeah. And it's like down to like one lane and cars are piling through their buses. Uber's dropping people off. Unavoidable in Toronto, I guess. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to not have that. It is.

It really is. All right. Well, welcome back. God, people in the chat are so spoiled. They're like, oh, enough of the golf. Golf, golf, golf. It's 203. It's 203.

It's like, holy crap, you're spoiled. Oh, sorry, this free content we're giving you. We want to talk about a little bit of personal interest for a minute. God. It's June 9th. Oh, my God. But to keep those people happy, and thank you, by the way, for joining us in June. We do appreciate that.

You're mixed on that. There is Leafs news today. The Maple Leafs hired Shane Doan as special advisor to the general manager. What happened to normal titles? I don't know. He's not just the AGM. He's a special advisor. He's specially advises.

He's not just the advisor. He's not an assistant. He's the special advisor to the general manager. Been with Arizona forever. His entire life. Literally since he, well, I guess he was with the Jets. Didn't he play one season when they were the Jets? And then he moved over there and he was part of them forever.

Famously didn't get traded. You know, Debra wanted to stay with them forever. And we can talk about that a little bit. But I have to say that when I first saw this news, I saw Kevin Weeks send out that tweet with him driving and breaking. I love his breaking news, little things that does yeah i i liked it a lot mostly just because i think the obvious parallel there is the matthews connection and the arizona connection but i've always kind of said like when they fired or if they were going to fire dubas that you know you kind of have to start

looking for your own pat for beak or start looking for like these other hockey guys within the industry that you want to hire and i will say that i am somewhat happy to have a hockeyman involved here like an ultra living is more of like you know i wouldn't say he's full out hockeyman but like he's getting there but to have a guy like jane shane doan who had a great nhl career was a good player you know knows the game really well connections with awesome matthew To me, it's a pretty obvious and good hire, and I'm kind of happy about it. To me, it's one of those things. There's this grouping of guys where it's like, is Shane Doan and Jason Spezza, are they different people?

For sure. Are they fully interchangeable in my mind? Yeah. I couldn't tell you. They both knew with the front office thing. I don't know. One has a preference, one or the other. I don't know.

I don't really think of the Spezza thing, but they are sneaky the same career. Spezza was better offensively. Neither guy's won. Both really great guys. Everyone likes them. You know, diehard hockey people seem to know their stuff. Okay.

I didn't really think of Spezza when you were talking about this, but you're right. It's very similar. It is. And so, great. Like, I'm not knocking it. I'm not praising it. You know, it's great that they seem to get along really well.

A lot of the Shane Doan quotes today were like that he loves brad tree living and they have quite the relationship that was i listened to the zoom chat today hopefully looking for some clips to potentially play on our show here wouldn't say it was most thrilling zoom chats i've been on a lot of zoom chats over the last three years probably was at the near the bottom five of zooms i've been on wasn't really a thrilling guy make kippers cl going to make Kippers Clippers very much. No, no. I mean, he spoke to the, he spoke to, because Luke Fox, who we're having on it in about, you know, 15 minutes time here. Beautiful.

Asked him an excellent pointed question about Austin Matthews resigning and what the influence he's going to have on that. And that's a big question. And before Luke- There is that Arizona tie, obviously. And before Luke even finished the question, he gave a little bit of a human chuck And before Luke even finished the question,

he gave a little bit of a human chuckle as he was asking the question. And he sort of alluded to the fact he knows how big it is for the fans and all this, but he obviously didn't tip his hand at all. But, like, it's hard not to draw a parallel here. Matthew Nyes had this guy as his coach when he was five years old. That's the part that really stuck out to me is a lot of the Nyes stuff. Nyes brought him yesterday a 23 maple leafs jersey and said that everybody's getting these now because that's his number and he brought him a jersey he said that in the chat so like there's a pretty close personal relationship with two of the least players here

and i think that matters like i really do think yeah you know if you leave because we talked about matthews's relationship with dubas and how much he loved him and you know all that discourse about how he wouldn't resign here with somebody else like which was insane yeah but i do think when there's shane doan in the room who've looked up to your whole life you have a relationship with does matter yeah you're right it's not like they brought in you know lou lamorello or someone he felt like he was really going to dig in on things. This is a guy that Matthews would have looked up to, I'm sure. There's pictures of them out there, you know, when Matthews is much younger.

And so, sure, it's someone he's admired and that he would be easy to talk with. That's a good thing, I think, for Leafs fans. Yesterday, Kipper... But you seem a little... I'm sensing a bit of... I don't know from you yeah yeah talk to me talk it out i i made a sarcastic joke like yeah great to have another

guy that hasn't won here yeah you know except for living has our world championship i know he has which is in the general mentorship uh the only guy that watches that tournament is sitting here in this room but you don't you're not a big fan of that one, but yeah, you're right. It doesn't, I'm not. And that's things I don't want to like detract from it. Cause I don't know what his preferences are. I do think it helps in the Matthews front a little bit. You know, it's a lot of this right now is prognosticating,

you know, what people are going to do because we haven't been told anything by the Leafs. We haven't been told Matthews in a tree living area of got together this where, you know, and it's moving this way or that we heard anything on sheldon keith nothing it's very it's been remarkably quiet between the time true living was hired and i guess today like presumably these guys have

met a bit today was the first either no or not no by now today was the first real piece of news that's come out post true living being introduced right yeah like there hasn't been any leaks in terms of like which way anyone's leaning in the matthews thing there hasn't been any talk about nylander there hasn't been any talk about really anything right like any of the coach is gonna keep his mouth shut any of the ufas resigning as there's like nine of them yeah Yeah. It's been remarkably quiet. So to see this come out today, like I think we're getting to the point where maybe we should maybe hear something about Keith here pretty soon.

Yeah. Like a little bit of information. The, you know, we haven't heard that anyone is leaving from the front office. Like there was presumed to be, I think something of an exodus. We haven't heard,

you know, as Pridham sticking around, Daryl Metcalf is a guy who was hired to do analytics with Dubas in the early days. And now is, I think he's an assistant to the general manager. You know, we just, we haven't heard anything. Well, you mean with Tree Living? Yeah, with Tree Living and what's happening with their whole, with all their plans. Also, Spezza maybe could have had, if he just didn't quit.

Yeah, maybe. He could have maybe had a, still had a job with the toronto maple leafs for sure so it is it is just a little curious kind of waiting to see why we haven't heard anything on some of these fronts the only thing i can think of with tree living and keith is not that they went to keith and said hey we'll give you an extension uh and keith's like let me think about this because surely he would want to stay here it's met with keith a couple of times. And now we're just going to talk to a couple other people and see what interest is like elsewhere before we announce anything. I think you could look at this from both ways.

Couldn't you be like the longer every day that goes by without an announcement feels like it's getting closer to him coming back. But you could also be like every day that goes by without an announcement feels like he's closer to being gone. I think it's that one. I think the longer we go without hearing because surely if they were just like, we like him as much as anyone else. We met a couple times. We got along. Fine. He's going to stay. To me, it's like the longer it goes on there, feeling out other people

and seeing what replacements might look like. I know when I interviewed to be the video coach for the Marlies, i met with sheldon we had a meeting to see if we like got along basically and we got along and by the end of the meeting is like yeah it works it's fine you know like i'm sure tree living in keith like they're not trying to you know more than that obviously that's an ahl video coach but yeah no they're i mean they are probably that's such an awkward thing to go into like what does that

meeting look like like you can't even be yourself really. Like, so what are you about? Like, what are your interests? What do you like? Like, I don't know how one guy is going to be like,

say something like horrifically racist. You're going to be perfectly, you're going to present yourself as Sheldon Keefe, the NHL coach. And, but like, I guess there's guys that are getting hired up here. Like it just,

to me, if you're going to do it, but like he said there's guys that are getting hired up here like it's just to me if you're gonna do it but like he said in the press conference priority number one is austin matthews so maybe they'll kind of figure out the rest after july 1st after that but that seems really late to be doing something but i really don't know what they're doing behind closed doors mlsc feels like nothing is leaking out no that you know what i am interested too is like will what will be the standard for this front office like the dubious took over for lamarillo who's like our assistants don't talk you never heard from an assistant coach i don't think the whole time i don't think we heard from any assistant general managers like no media oh we never really heard

from anyone true i am curious to know if well fair enough i mean generally though if you're living will be like yeah yeah we can go out and talk a little bit yeah but it's funny because you hear a guy like don't laugh about the matthews question being like toronto media and it's like wait just wait pal just wait yeah you think it's funny now you're gonna hate it well i don't think i really don't think he'll be exposed to the media a lot like did spezza ever talk no that was part of the dubious thing though like that none of those guys he just kept the lou rules in place i think they didn't want to make their own news i'm sure the pr department will

advise them to do the same yeah like i can't imagine they probably picked up a few tricks from lou lemorello throughout the years that they'll probably keep it tight tight but i mean on his first day as general manager brad for living living came on our show. Right. So it's like, that's a different right away. That's a different sort of feel and tone. So we'll see if it is different, but I'm not, I'm not convinced it's going to be. That's right. Yeah. Well, there is hockey still being played last night. The Florida Panthers winning over time. Yeah. Matthew could Chuck involved again. Carter Verhage shoots one in the net,

three to two florida panthers win two to one series now you get a chance to watch that i did i did i did i watched the whole game i will say that i think it's pretty interesting the panthers i'm kind of having a parallel feeling to the miami heat with them Like they play in like the same general vicinity. And it's like, how do they keep winning? It's like they've been the underdog here now for how many straight series? Four straight series. Huge dogs against Boston.

Pretty big dogs against the Leafs. Big dogs against Carolina. And then again, dogs here. And like it's cats if you want. But they don't have a real, like they have a guy who's like on the fringes of being a super duper star like jimmy butler versus matthew kachuk they kind of got a lot of decent role players that can contribute i just the parallels between these two teams to me are eerily similar and i thought vegas was going to roll them i still think vegas is going to roll

them but like i thought the nuggets were going to roll them. I still think Vegas is going to roll them. But like I thought the Nuggets were going to roll them and I still think the Nuggets are going to roll them. They're in the exact same position versus a favored team. And like now I'm getting that win last night. I should I bet against them now? Like I feel like I should, but I'm really shaken in my belief now because

Vegas played really well last night. It just feels like in basketball, the better team wins most of the time, but it hasn't for three straight series. I know, I know. Like they were like, they beat the number one,

the best team in the league just seems more likely that to me, that they would come back to earth and Florida could continue to just kind of squeak it out. Like, you know, the game last night, fairly even game, but Florida just finds a way.

These kachuk goals. If you haven't checked it out, I have an article coming on sportsnet.ca for AWS. Taking a deep dive into some of the factors that go into the projected goal rates for attempts. Looking at Matthew Kachuk and his contributions. Projected goal rates per attempt? No, for attempts. For attempts. So every attempt throughout the game um you

know this aws can spit out the likelihood of that shot being a goal oh so his has got to be 95 well the one he scores on this paint yeah every time it's the second highest of any any shot the whole playoffs yeah so yeah that one's a good one didn't level they nail on that one no and the ot winner it's interesting, though, because what the article looks at is Kachuk's inputs because the OT winner, unscreened, shot from distance, untipped, just goes by Aiden Hill. But you got Kachuk.

Right in the way. Right. You know, he's going to the net. He looks like he might tip it, screen it, something. Yeah, but apparently he didn't. But it's one of those things that, like, he has his hands in everything. And I thought the biggest change from games one and two for Kachuk was,

I think Ian McIntyre wrote in his article today for us that in the first two games, Kachuk had 36 pims and played 34 minutes. You know, he was in the box more than on the ice. Last night, no pims, no hits, and he's involved in everything offensively. I think a lot of that had to do with him being in severe pain. Yeah. That dialing back, that physical element. God, he got rocked there.

Was that Coleslaw that got him? Yeah, King. I love that guy. I love the Knights in general, but it really felt, I thought he was kind of done. Last night was just, I know this is not breaking news, but, God, hockey players are so tough. Like, to have what happened to Kachuk and have him get back in that game. He gets an assist on the Montour goal.

He scores the tying goal. Montour, I don't know what the hell happened to him, but he jammed his arm up weird on the board. Yeah, he was dangling. I was like, oh, well, he's done for the year. It's like, over time, he's back out there snapping around. I'm like, God, they got good drugs in that locker room. I don't know what they're shooting into him, but they're looking a lot better.

Like this time of year, you know, you just it's all about like overcoming these. Like when you get this close, you can start convincing yourself that like I'm not hurting as bad as I think I am. And I do feel like obviously them not going down 3-0 is big but I do feel like those guys in that room now are like alright like we're three away here. They're only up one game like that's such a big swing obviously in the

series but I do kind of feel like the cats can find their way back into this. The only thing there is like you know adrenaline and drugs are real and then you wake up today you wake up today and it's like is montour's arm still hanging off is kachuk was it brain and shoulder i i thought more shoulder shoulder like i thought when he kind of stumbled when he got back up just a toe i thought it was like oh god he's getting back in this game and even simmer mentioned kudos to

simmer he's like oh i thought maybe the spotter maybe should have stepped in there. And I was like, good on you for saying that, Craig. Like, I thought so too. But then I watched back the replay and there was no contact to the head on the shoulder. And he didn't like hit his head on the ice or whatever. So maybe he was just like kind of out of, got the wind knocked out of him a bit

and he was kind of stumbling. Like he got hit hard. But yeah, I just, for him, he's just such a gamer, man. He just really is. He's a Jimmy Butler of the a gamer, man. Yeah. He just really is. That's actually not. He's a Jimmy Butler of the NHL, man. Not to plug all my articles, but that is my article from yesterday is on, you know, the guys playing through things.

And there was like a time when we used to like really honor the pain the guys go through. Yes. And then it's like, now it's like, don't you, you're not supposed to glorify the violence, but like, it's not the violence being glorified here, but you can't win in hockey if you don't give up your body and sacrifice. And to look away from it almost does a disservice to the guys who are going through this to have success. Well, I think it's such a mental killer for the other team.

Yeah. Where like, I can't believe I'm about to make this parallel here, but I was watching tennis today. Okay. It was a semifinal of the French Open. What a sports guy, eh? Novak, I've never watched tennis, but this Carlos Alcaraz kid really interests me.

He's the new number one seed at the French Open. He's a stud. Next Spanish, great. And I was watching it, and Djokovic went out with, like, a little bit of an injury. Like, his wrist was bugging him, and you could tell. Like, I think he was 25 kilometers off of his serve every time. Like his wrist was legit bugging him.

And Alcaraz was really playing up to the crowd. And he was really, and he was up, I think he was up 40 love on serve. Like he was going to break. And then Djokovic just found his way back in, beat him in that, that they go to a tie break. Alcaraz ends up winning it. But then Djokovic kills him in the next two sets and wins it.

And it's like the mental thing of thinking you have a guy because the injury and thinking that you're going to beat him, and then it's like he's still competing and he's still... Is this not the least in a nutshell? Every time they think they have an opponent dead, that they just stop playing or don't play to the same level? Yeah, it's just like they can't get over that, like they just can't get by that thing where they're like oh they're pushing back here when we thought

they weren't going to right and i think that for vegas like i don't know what the advanced stats in that game were last night but like vegas kicked the crap out of them to me like to my eye test like it was a 2-1 game but i'm watching it i'm like there's one team on the ice here yeah they are out there okay they were just kicking the crap out of them for most of that game i was like you know this is gonna be one of those wins where it's 2-1 but the the chances the shots everything it just felt like they and they find a way to score one at the end they find a way to score an ot and then vegas is going back in the room be like how do we lose like their best player was hurt their best defenseman's arm was be like how do we lose like their best player was hurt their best defenseman's arm was hanging off and now we lose and i'm just interested to

see they're well coached maybe they get back into it but i think that could be a little bit of a mental swing for them well we will find out good to get uh someone's opinion on this who's actually there is he there you're in florida right oh luke fox are you in Florida hey Bueller are you in Florida you got me yeah we hear you man can you hear us yeah sorry yes I'm in Florida

okay good I'm covering the Stanley Cup final and I couldn't be happier I love it that's awesome so we'd love to get the sense I'm covering the Stanley Cup final and I couldn't be happier. Oh, I love it. I'm more tired. I love it. That's awesome. So we'd love to get the sense.

We both watch the game here on our televisions, but did you feel like it was as lopsided as Sammy? What was your takeaway from Florida and the game three performance there? I thought Florida Panthers were done. I thought we might see a sweep i thought i might be flying back to toronto sunday morning after two periods it felt like this is not coming back like i was talking with some of the other people up there in the press box and it's like i think they may have finally broke them like it seemed like maybe their will had been sapped from them vegas is so organized their defense is so big they're not allowing anything to the net hardly hardly any second chances and the special teams is just a in my mind an absolute disaster for florida

terrible they've given up six six goals on the power play and and they they're 0 for 12 on their own power play and special teams are so critical in in playoff series and especially when five on five chances are so hard to come by with vegas's d playing so structured and being so long and hard to get to the slot area that i just thought they were done i mean i think i was thinking they were out of comebacks. And then, lo and behold, Makachuk passes his forced situation into the quiet room, comes back, does what he's done all playoffs, scores in the final two and a half minutes to push it to overtime. Then they go into overtime,

and they have to kill another penalty with fresh ice, which they haven't been very good at. They managed to do it. And first shot of overtime carter verhage uh same guy who summoned the magic in game seven in the boston series uh gets a shot off and you know gives the the team some life the rats come raining down and vegas is is wondering what what the heck more do we have to do to win a hockey game. But even though Florida, you know, were those pesky, pesky cats last night, I still feel like Vegas is the superior team, the more confident team, the more experienced team. I think they're going to get it done.

But, you know, they have a chance now. Let's see what happens Saturday. Yeah, I like to think that you're right there, that they're just way better. Like, the talent discrepancy between these two teams, to me, and the depth on all four lines, the decor. But I just, we're so close to the finish line now, Luke, where, you know, like, if this was, like, second round,

I just, I feel like we're three away for one team and two away for the other one, that some of that stuff kind of goes out the door and vegas thinking that they were so close to going up three nothing and basically having it done like you have to do some really good coaching if you're bruce cassidy and if you're that leadership core to keep them from you know not getting scared they're obviously still have a lead but to keep them you know just not thinking about the potential comeback because you did it on Boston in the first round. They've been rolling.

They've been kind of playing as underdogs. To me, that would be a hard thing to sort of coach out if I'm Bruce Cassidy. Yeah, and I went into the Vegas avail today because they were doing it in different spots. Vegas held their avail at the Ritz-Carlton right on the beach in Fort Lauderdale. That's all right. They're not even going to the rink. I'm just giving you some insight into how Cassidy's treating this.

They're not even going to the rink. He's like, we're not even going to mention the Florida Panthers. We're not going to get into X's and O's. He's like, we won't pull out the video. We'll do that tomorrow morning at the rink at the morning skate. He's like, our guys are battered and bruised i want the guys to get medical attention that need it otherwise i want them to just chill out and rest and and recover and not think about hockey uh for today and then he's like it'll be full steam ahead

again tomorrow uh but i think this is this is where yeah it helps to have cassidy who's been through it and said that he would do things a little bit differently than he did in 19 when he lost to the St. Louis Blues when he was running the Bruins bench. I think it helps that he's had an experience being in a final, but I also think it helps having guys like Petrangelo, Martinez, Chandler Stevenson, Phil Kessel and Jonathan Crick to some extent. There's a lot of voices in that room who've done it, who've climbed the mountain.

And Florida doesn't have that. So I think, you know, having those guys talk amongst themselves and say, like, this is part of it. It wasn't supposed to be easy. It wasn't supposed to be a sweep. And they have no shame in their game. And Cassie said something really interesting. He's like, we don't have to, we're not going to change a lot because we don't need to yeah and i think

that that's an extremely confident comment from a coach who looked at the game objectively and said they got some breaks at the very end but we play that game you know nine times out of ten we're going to win that game yeah that is a funny thing with coaching because sometimes these guys know they know when they mess up and they don't need to be shown it or how you know they know what the right way to do things is and sometimes you have to have that faith in them so that is an interesting way for them to go about it the one thing like for florida to continue to win they need matthew to chuck to continue to do what he did last game like just he is involved in everything. There's seven and O and overtime.

I think he's been on the ice for six, if not seven of those goals. So what is his status? What did you think he looked like? I know he contributed, but what did he look like after the injury? Kevin BX highlighted some stuff on camera of him, not really battling at the same level.

Like could they get a diminished Kachuk in the games ahead? I think it's possible. I think Gudis is probably a little diminished. I'm sure there's some Vegas players that aren't totally 100% too. What stuck out to me was right after, you know, Colasar bowled him over, he played one power play shift before the concussion spotter forced him off and on that

power play he looked really hesitant did not look like himself he was a little bit dazed uh i guess if there's a positive to take is that he did come out and meet with the media post game and he said you know i'm completely fine i mean what else is he going to say? But if someone was really banged up, sometimes they don't show up in front of the camera. So he's a grinder, right? It's going to take anything for him not to participate and give his all. And the fact that he still delivered despite, you know, he clearly wasn't 100%, 100% in those dying moments but you're absolutely

right i think the formula for florida because they don't have the depth is guys like kachuk have to be noticeable and on top of their game but broski has to play above his head which he did last night like they need elite elite performances from their guys, or they don't stand a chance because Vegas just rolls four lines, rolls 60, comes at you in waves, doesn't give you very many grade-A looks. So they need superstar performances from the handful of guys that can make an impact. And Kachuk's at the top of the list. You get on finals.

I'm going to move to Elise. You sat in today. God, you're working hard down there, going to the Ritz on the beach. Working on the Ritz on the beach in Florida. Now you're doing the Shane Doan Zoom, and you asked an excellent question, I might add, on that Zoom chat. What were your major takeaways today from the Shane Doan thing?

Did you have any sweeping observations that you'd like to make here? Well, I think he's kind of Jason Spezza 2.0 in terms of he said the exact same thing oh yeah yeah yeah i just think he's that guy he's going to be that conduit right between the front office and the players uh yeah he's a little bit farther removed from his playing days than spezza but but not really um i think it's interesting. He still hits the ice sometimes with Matthews in the pro elite skates.

It must be hard to get into that. He just dumps it in and chases it? I'm sorry. I know the old guy at the skate. He's just playing a hard game out there. Not a lot of tricks. But yeah, just the history he has with Austin Matthews, I think is is going to be huge like

if anyone and i don't know if anyone can but if anyone can convince this guy to take a little less sell him on the idea that every dollar you leave on the table is a dollar we can spend to build a better supporting cast around you if anyone can can do that, it's probably Shane Doan, who Matthew's idolized as a kid and still sees on a semi-regular basis in the offseason. They've had a relationship since he was 16. So that's going back. And then the other big takeaway, I think, was his relationship with Matt Nyes,

which goes back to when they were kids, because Nyes and Shane shane's son josh uh were born in the same year so they were on the same minor hockey team and and nyes was saying to us uh you know last summer that shane was basically the coach he ran the bench like ever since he was five or six years old and it was matt nyes who came over and presented shane dillon with a sweater like swung by the house like the families know each other like like how important is that going to be long term when you're thinking about you know keeping matt and i's happy or or even just shane being able to go to brad and say like you know Austin told me this or or Maddie told me this and this is how the players are feeling like there can kind of be like some insight on what the room is missing do you know what I mean like it's kind of easier for play for for knives to talk to to Shane than

it would be to talk to Brad directly well I think when we talked about Dubas leaving, right, and one of the big talking points was that the relationship that Dubas and Matthews had and would he sign here with whoever comes in, you know, to have Shane Doan, a guy he's known forever, in that room potentially during contract negotiations or just to have him as a guy that he can lean on during it, it's a massive, that's clearly the biggest reason.

Can we all agree that that's like one in 1A, 1B, whatever you want for the reasons that they brought him in here? Clearly he's a good hockey guy. Clearly he knows Treliving well. But we're beating around the bush here if it's not just the Matthew things that he brought him in and the Knives as well. Yeah, I mean, it feels like that's the most immediate thing right because

trey living himself signal that out as his top priority but i don't think we should say like this is going to be shane dolan's one job i think he you know he said that he has aspirations to be a general manager himself one day and he was working towards this type of position anyway he took the job with hockey canada he was talking about how he was, you know, picking Doug Armstrong's brain, Jason Botterill, you know, these type of guys. Like, he has front office aspirations of his own. And then to be able to go and do it

in a high-profile place like Toronto, where, like, how many teams are they going to throw out a Zoom call for the special assistant and 25 people jump on the zoom call and write about the new special assistant, right? Like, so it also boosts his profile for his long-term aspirations of, of being a GM one day. For sure. Okay. So tree gets John Dutton to come on board and be the assistant to the GM or

whatever. What else has he got going on? We know he's talking to the coach or trying to sign the superstar. Do we know what he's been up to since he's joined on? He's been pretty quiet, but the one thing

I would say is he went out to Arizonarizona he's made this higher i think we need to figure out something on shelvin keith pretty soon right uh like it is is like to me that that's a that's a big one is he your is he your guy are you you know have you met like that surely they've met by now right so are you going to decide to keep him? If you are keeping him, are you just going to let him be a lame duck? Are you going to extend him? Or are you going to look elsewhere? And the silence on that issue is really fascinating.

Do you think his time in Arizona talking to Matthews impacts that? Like, do you think he's going to Matthews? Do you want the coach or do you not want the coach? Yeah, I do. I actually think Matthews has a huge say in Sheldon Key's future here. God, we're doing, like, you better sign. Matthews. Matthews.

Like, the amount of stuff that, like, you know, they're just to his every need here. Like, they just hired his boyhood idol. They're asking him about the coach. They're going to give him less term than every other guy I signed for. Like, hopefully he signs. Or, like, what? Yeah. Like, they're bending the knee to him here big time.

True. Well, I know that he wants to know the plan. He wants to know who the coach is going to be. He wants to know who his wingers are going to be. He wants to know, you know, how Brad's going to restructure the to know who his wingers are going to be he wants to know you know how brad's going to restructure the team if at all like he he wants to feel very secure in where new york is going to take this team before he puts pen to paper now do i know how much if if boston matthews is saying fire keep or hire keep i love or you know extend keep i love working for keep i have

no clue but i know that you know he and his camp want to know the plan they want to know everything before they commit to anything long term all right well thanks so much for your time enjoy florida and vegas sounds like you've got a pretty good june going for you pal yeah dry heat and humid heat, back and forth. It's been good. Bring the gold bond, pal. Dust those shorts. All right.

That's Luke Fox. Thanks, pal. All right. Have a good one, guys. You too. Luke Fox, Leaf, and NHL writer for Sportsnet.ca. Not to go full Kipper here. Do it.

But, like, holy God, what else do they got to do? Here's the thing. So much of this is speculation. So much is speculation. Mr. Matthews, will you take $100 million from the most storied franchise in the NHL, Mr. Matthews? Will you? Listen, Tree Living and Doan had a relationship from their time in Arizona.

So they have a relationship. It's not just about Matthews. We don't know that he said, do you want the coach back? Yes, we know. But I'm sure he did get asked. I think I'm very confident that conversation was had before the conversation with Sheldon Keith. Yes.

So he's in Arizona. He gets done. He's talked to Matthews. We haven't heard anything on Keith yet. If Matthews is like, I don't know about the coach. Is that maybe why we don't know about keith because he is looking elsewhere if he wants to know he wants to be secure in his long-term future does that mean that tree living has had to say okay he wants then he doesn't want keith to

be here for a year then get fired maybe he wants to start over someone new i don't know i'm just like imagine what they'd be doing for him if he had won something. Wouldn't matter at that point. I guess. Yeah. I don't know. Like, I get it. He's an elite player.

He's, I don't want him to leave. If he were Nathan McKinnon or Connor McDavid or whoever of that ilk in terms of, like, that, like, hockey passion weirdness, I still feel like this would be happening. I don't feel like it's, I don't know. I guess it is Toronto. I guess it is a Toronto thing. It is. You just can't afford to, no team can afford to lose a guy like this. I do, you know, and I think he's pretty well liked in this market. People love Austin Matthews. People, you know, there's a ton of Austin Matthews jerseys. You go to a game, I'd say 50% of'd say 50 of the new jersey 60 of the new jerseys you see are awesome matthews i think he's loved here don't get me

wrong but i do think like if he signs july one for five years four years whatever everyone's gonna be hunky dory yeah and it's you know there'll probably be some people that are questioning it including a guy that usually sits in his chair like why wouldn't you just do the eight right which i agree with. But, like, if he, like, starts to drag this out, we've talked about this before, but, like, the PR on him... Would change. Can start to flip pretty quickly.

Yeah. Like, it really, and, like, I would just be careful if I'm him about how long you drag this out and, like, what do you want to be? Like, do you want to be the richest guy ever or do you want to be the face of a franchise when you're finally the one that pushes them over the top and hoists the stanley cup for the first time in 100 what is your priority 100 that is the conversation and what we will learn i wrote an article called that like we're gonna learn what this guy is and what he wants here over the next little bit one thing that was interesting to me that kipper mentioned yesterday

is he had heard that rbc wanted matthews to come up he's their main sponsor to come up and play 18 holes be a part of the event or whatever i don't like this and matthews passed but but these conversations that you and i are having if matthew does media, they're going to happen. And I don't know, he wouldn't know the answers of... Oh, like he doesn't want to put himself in the line of like... That questioning. You know, like, of him being there and getting asked questions by a guy like me or something.

Do you want Sheldon Keefe back? Have you had any conversations about your contract with Sheldon Keefe? He'd be like, oh, you know, it's obviously a tremendous honor to play at the RBC Canadian Open. I don't know. So maybe you're right right but it does kind of rub me the wrong way yeah that stuff always gets to me like you know i think he does really well in interviews like matthews i feel like he has grown increasingly comfortable in front of the camera he doesn't seem no nervous or self whatever he's just a really confident guy he thinks he's the best player in

the world like he just you know it comes easy to him i do feel like fans in toronto would love to get to know him a little bit better but to his credit like sydney crosby's whole career no one knows anything no one knows anything about him i mean there are obviously people around his inner circle that do but he's done a remarkable job of remaining respectable and whatever without i don't know he could be married with three kids no social media does a lot for you yes it really does and is matthews post ever i don't know, he could be married with three kids. No social media does a lot for you. Yes. It really does. And does Matthews post ever? I don't think he does.

I mean, he posts like a thousand ads that he gets because he plays in Toronto. Right. You know, no one ever gives him anything. Yeah. He only makes a million dollars a post from Uber Eats and Skip the Dishes and whatever the hell else he does because he plays in Toronto. This has been labeled for misinformation. But no, I mean, he does all these posts for everything yeah that's his only thing he boasts is at yeah and it's like i get it like who wouldn't be taking that but like you know

the opportunities here are different than they would like you want to go play in la you'll probably be doing a used car advertising you know what helps is that la also has crippling taxes yes it really does like if it was another no tax state i'd be like we're in big trouble here but yeah so i listen i don't want this to come up across as like me being anti-matthews because i want him to sign here i want him here listen he's a flawed player i understand in terms of like some of the the playoff stuff and he didn't have the best year this year but like players like austin matthews don't come around a lot no you gotta appreciate and i want him to sign here and just be a leaf and watch him play because i love watching it doesn't mean everything else we've said isn't

valid yeah the other side of it is a little it could it could get greasy here for him in a hurry it could all right all right we're gonna go to break when we come back we're gonna talk a little bit of playoff picks a little more more Leafs-Panthers. Nope, not Leafs. Leafs-Panthers. I do not want to talk about that ever again. More after the break. We'll be right back.

Breaking down the top stories in the NHL every day. The Jeff Merrick Show. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Real Kipper and Born on Sportsnet 590 The Van. Welcome back to Real Kipper, Born, McKee, Brandeo, and Rollnick. We are without Nick Kiprios today. That name doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

No, it's too many. It sounds like a law firm. But yeah, it is time for... You want me to do it? You're the guy. Here we go. It's time for Playoff Picks presented by Bet365.

Visit the app for the latest odds. So we talked at length about how much better Vegas was last night. And we also talked about the other side of it that, you know, Florida finds their way back into this. Yeah. I think now if you are... The way the Sharps would probably be betting

is that they would probably be looking at Vegas now as a little bit undervalued after... I don't know if you'd call me a Sharp, but I'm on them now. I'm looking at this. The longest odds for when the series will end now is game five. Really? So I think game seven was plus 150 and game six was plus 160.

And game five is now plus 250. So two Vegas wins will pay you plus 250. Yeah. I like that. I think to me, like, i could really see the next game everybody talking up florida getting back into this for ever like today tomorrow talking about how they're you know they're they're they're tough to beat they're uh they're hard to keep down and then vegas winning like six one right like they did in that game against dallas where they just

washed them away then you go back to vegas for game five and with the zigzags and present there shout out Jason and Brandon good for you guys but I do feel like there's a way that this is just kind of over quickly here after they found a way to win one you know it reminds me of the Bruins Canucks Cup final where the Bruins seemed clearly to be the better team to me and they would go to boston and boston would just hand it to them yeah and then they'd go to canucks and the canucks were in vancouver the connection squeak one out by a goal and it's a three three series but really it's been like vancouver sneaking out their wins and in the end it felt like boston won every game eight two and vancouver won like one nothing every time right it's what it felt like to me. I can't remember.

And that's kind of this, right? Like Vegas dominates, Florida squeaks one out. But in the end, you just feel like, all right, it's pretty clear who the better team is here. If Florida wins this series, finds a way to win this series, just three games, I will be, it will be like the Carolina Hurricanes doing it in 2006. Like the longest odds, and if I may say this tactfully,

the worst team to win a cup. And not that they're a bad team, but. I really don't tactfully, the worst team to win a cup. Yeah. And not that they're a bad team, but. I really don't want them to. No, I don't either, man. I'm at the point now where I kind of hate them. Like I really was like respect. Like after they beat the Leafs, it was like a respectful thing.

I was like, well, you know, they're pretty good. And they beat the Leafs. And now I'm like, these guys are no good. They're not a good team. No, it's like Lomberg and Colin White and Eric Stahl and Zach Delpy. Guys are playing so much. You know, it's just like, how is this team continuing to do this? And it's Kachuk for me. Mark Stahl plays so much.

I'm like, it's so much Mark Stahl. How is this happening? If Mark Stahl were on the Leafs, it feels like he'd get shredded. I know, it's crazy. So the other one I have for you is another NBA pick. Because tonight is a very important game for the nba finals been loving this nba finals along with the with the nuggets and the heat um a little bit undervalued to me again tonight are the nuggets they're a slight slight favorite which to me they should be a heavier

favorite than they are uh yokich is unbelievable i i don't know if I've enjoyed watching an athlete as much as I've enjoyed watching Jokic over this playoff run. He's a truly special guy. So if you want the Nuggets to win tonight and you want to add a little bit of value, Jamal Murray, shout out Kitchener, Ontario, been unbelievable for them, been so good. Him over 25 and a half points and Jokic over 10 and a half assists. Yeah. That pays plus 325

which is a little better than the last one that we did that hit so like i do think the nuggets roll again and i think a lot of people are kind of swaying over to the heat getting back into this are going to win one at home but the nuggets are just way better kevin durant tweeted something about yokich like this guy doesn't even want to be a star. He just wants to go ride his horses. I can't imagine there being a more fun guy to play basketball with. Every guy just gets hit in the chest with wide open. They're just like, oh, I'll shoot this wide open shot. It's a really remarkable guy to watch play.

And how many times the ball comes below his head is like nil. Everything happens above the rim, above his head, shoots, scores. Love him. He's one of my favorite all-time bag of milk milk athletes. I was trying to figure out like the hockey equivalent of someone who is just so good, but doesn't want to be a star just like an effective sort of compare. I don't know what the Jokic hockey compare. I don't know that there is like.

Yeah, he's just such a unique. I'll do some homework and come back after the weekend and and do that but yeah he's been really really good so yeah so nuggets win with jamal murray over 20 25 and a half points and yokich over 10 and a half sis plays plus 325 you want to get on the action for the nba tonight that is uh yeah game four there you go that was playoff picks presented by bet 365 visit the app for the latest odds that is beautiful uh in terms of other news around the nhl um you know there's a trade there's like a sign in trade severson goes from okay now i'm saying what the hell is columbus

doing i don't know severson eight years yeah like okay he's extremely fine. He is the most average guy. Like, where's Kipper? Mid. Yeah. You know, he's a guy that numbers love. Analytics guys love this guy. I saw a thing today that had him, like, 96th percentile and, like, a 99th percentile for offense. Guy's had over 40 points once.

You know what my biggest memory of him is? When there was, like, all those rumors that the Leafs may like acquire him and then he came here and blew a shoe on like the first shift or like what did he do? Is it two on one where he just didn't play it? Or he just like fell down kind of? Yeah, like he just had a horrible game and I was like, oh, that guy.

That's the guy that Dubas wants? Surprising. And he's kind of like Justin Hall. Like he gets good numbers by effectively moving the puck. He's better offensively than Hall, so they pay him a bunch of money. Eight years. Beat it. I do appreciate, though, when teams try to win. I love watching a team like

Detroit last year be like, okay, now we're going to see if we can win, and they couldn't, but that's good. That's the first step in being competitive is trying. I always thought they did that a year early. Yeah, probably, and that's why I admired Buffalo last year. They didn't go all in. They finished a point out of the playoffs. Maybe they could have and eliminated

Florida. Yeah, that would have been fun. I like that. But no, I think Buffalo is a big-time danger team next year. But I thought with Detroit, there's a generational guy in the draft. Maybe just wait one more year before you sign all the mid-free agents. Yeah, give Kopp a seven-year, five-year contract or whatever it was.

We'll look back on those and be like, what the hell were they doing there? That was a little strange. So, yeah. The other little piece of info that we can't properly touch on, but the Ottawa Senator's ownership situation. Kip's not here. Yeah, bad day for Kip to miss.

Is this on purpose? No, he doesn't say anything anyway. He's like, well, NDA. He's like, I can't really comment on that. But his group apparently has backed out according to Bruce Garriock. Yeah. So, I don't know. Maybe I don't need a new co-host according to 32 Thoughts.

We'll see. I don't know. I have no answers on anything. I would understand. If I'm, what's the, Astopolis? Yeah, that's it. If I'm Mr. Billionaire? Yeah.

I get that. You know, I'm kind of sick of waiting around on this. Billionaire, I get that. I'm kind of sick of waiting around on this. Here's my billion dollars. You're not going to take it right this second. It sounded like there was another bid that was frustrated and they couldn't speed it along. How about you take the bill for your kind of

sort of sneaky crappy team? Just take the money, maybe? Anyways, that's my thoughts on the matter. And that is our time for the week. This has been Real Kipper Born. Thanks for joining me, Sammy. We'll see you next time.