Real Kyper & Bourne - Player Agent Power + Mental Health in Sports with Dr. Sinclair

Episode Date: January 22, 2026

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne are joined by former NHLer, agent and general manager Brian Lawton (7:51) to chat about the injuries across the league in correlation with the upcoming Winter Olympics, growing the game outside of North America, the increased trade chatter ahead of the Olympic break, agents working to find a trade for the player they represent, and more NHL teams like the Buffalo Sabres signing contract extensions early in a player's career. Then, Dr. Dana Sinclair, registered psychologist, stops by (33:27) to take a deeper dive on the mental hurdles humans, athletes, and goaltenders go through, educating on mental health across sports levels, and handling pressure from fans, coaches, and within themselves. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, let's get her going. It's the national hour on the real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live on Sportsnet. Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver. Sportsnet 960. Don't interrupt. Streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. And if you miss our show, you can watch it on YouTube.

You can hear it on Apple Podcast, Spotify. But if you listen on a podcast, you won't be able to watch Sammy do the walk of shame. It's been a good while. to change the jersey over from our Leaf Hour edition to anything else that isn't blue and white, Sammy. Where is our Zhajah Gabor? John missing today? To give you a warning, Sammy.

Oh, we're going with the, coming off a big win here. Look at the sweater going up. A beautiful Vancouver Canucks. Enric Sidene. There you go. I'm not going to bury Jaja, Jha, Jha, Jha, has been on it every day for me. He's told me that to change the jersey.

And today he didn't. Ja Jaja has been on fire. Today he didn't. Joining our show. He doesn't have to do it every day. I am an adult. I shouldn't remember. So I take full responsibility.

I take full responsibility for not changing the damn jersey. Sorry, guys. This hour of Real Kippenborn born brought to by Bet365. In a few minutes, we'll welcome in former NHL player agent and general manager. How many guys can say that? Not many. Brian Lawton Ken. we'll get into a ton

for those of you just watching the show for the first time and noticed my chin I took eight stitches today in a hockey game Do you still get money for those? My co-horse here they were too scared to mention it you honestly thought

like my wife may have punched me out Of all the ways that you as a person could end up with stitches there's at least two ways we wouldn't want to talk about on air and that was certainly one of them. Listen, I'd be lying to you if it wasn't a weird vibe

when you came in. Okay? You came in very, you're usually like, boy, boy, it's like very like jovial. You came in at 357, quiet as a mouse, kind of hid your face,

and then I went on there and I looked at you and I didn't know if it was something bad. I didn't want to make funny. The fact that you didn't bring it up either was reinforcing to me that we're not talking about this. We love you.

But we're talking. about it. Vertigo a couple weeks ago, eight stitches on my chin. I'm grinding out the winner. January is a tough month. Put on a face mask. Come on. Like, I know it's cool to go vise.

But just put on a bird cage. Why not? I can't do it. Because he played in the national. No. I wore a visor forever in beer league. I got hit in the face. I'm like, yep, that's good.

Time for a cage. He's Nick Kippreel. Yeah, I put on a cage, bro. You're on TV. You're on TV. Look at that mug. You can't have, you can't come in here looking like. I refuse to do a bandaid on this thing.

Okay. I'm not happening. No, you got to hear it out. You could look geekier if you put a band-aid on your face. Others can do it. Not you. I can't.

Can't do it? Just get the one that Danny Heatley used to rock. Remember you had the one that was advisor, but it like came down to like here? What's the, it's an open fish bubble? Yeah. Not happening. Not ever going to happen, eh? It's a freaky accident too.

Well, it's always that play where you extend the stick and it skips up. That happens up like an evil conundation. an evil jump. That happens all the time. That's why you need to bail out on all confrontations on the ice. That's what good coaches say. How about the Canucks? Good for them.

Finally got a win. They had lost 11 in a row? Yes. That's a high number. It really is. You know, that's tough. And then J.P. Barry went on with Donnie and Dolly.

Yeah, that was interesting to me. He basically said. Lots to talk about Pedersen. Yeah. He said nine out of ten times, you know, it's just a bunch of rumors and there's nothing there. He's leaving. He didn't call this. He's leaving.

Like this year? Well, this year, this summer. He wasn't happy when they were good. There's just, is there any world that you look at the Vancouver Canucks going, okay, we're going to do this rebuild. Petey's a part of the solution. No, no, we're going to build it around Petey. No.

Do you think the Rangers would have interest? No, it's over. I think the Rangers. But they may have to try to get rid of J.T. Miller. Oh, imagine they traded them for each other again? Oh, that'd be electric. Oh, the Rangers might have to get rid of J.T. Miller. Maybe it's an option, right?

Are you building around J.T. Miller now? Oh, man. There's a tough point in your career where you're like, is it mean? There's windows with groups, and if you miss the window, who gets to stay, who gets to go? Does JT have no trade protection? I would imagine. Those really shouldn't come into play for too long.

Yeah. He has no move clause. If you approach it the right way, I think. How many more years in his contract, Bernie? Just so many. Four more after this one. And he's currently 32. I think there's been times in this show where all of us have been fans of his when it's going good.

Totally. But, God, you'd be scared trading for that. Yeah. You'd have to have a strong ironclad room where it's just, it's an amplifier. And you need to, that's just a scary one. Yeah. With all that money left. Anyways.

It's funny. Go ahead. Yeah. I was funny when you look at a lot of these trades, big names, go both ways, Philip Heedle, J.T. Miller, and you go, oh, both their teams kind of knew something about these guys. Like, I know people know that Heidel was, you know, prone to injury, but he's like career risk right now.

Yes. Like, can he continue to play, you know? No, no, 100%. A lot of people would be really happy if he shut it down. I was reading an old article about the guy who played for, was it Matt Calvert who played for the. avalanche with a pink visor because he had had so many concussions and the lighting was not great for his eyes and that is like one of my longstanding beliefs like you got to use a different

color visor because of concussions that's enough here's a random gear one for you remember when eric had like the right yellow one yeah why no what was that about i got to tell you i'll tell you a very short embarrassing story i played summer hockey with good nchellers in colonna because there was just a summer skate and i was like just good enough to be in it. So there's Heatley's out there and Keith and, you know, like, there's a good state. Real player.

So I get to be out there. And my mom made me get a visor. I was going no visor in the summer and I spent the money and I got a tinted visor. And I got abused so badly in one ice session that I no longer had a visor after that game. Like I couldn't. Like how tinted are we talking? Like Ovi-tinted young. No.

No. Like a tinted visor. Listen. It was the white oak leaf. era. It was the early 2000s. We were making mirrors. Like mirror? Mirror? I'm not that bad. I'm not looking at you the same any longer.

I took it off. I took it off. But either way, like those gear statements in hockey are not. Just black skate. So you're the worst player in the skate and a tint advisor? A little later, remind me that we're going to have a discussion on Tom Wilson. You heard about Tom Wilson,

eh, with the dress code in Washington? Oh. Oh, yeah. He's all over some of these kids. You want some of a suit? buddy hard finds suspension his generation Iowa all right

okay Brian Lotton as promised former NHLLLLL agent general manager joins us slots how are you my friend I may not look at

but I believe in the dress code for NHL players so I guess Tom Wilson hasn't liked a few of the outfits some of the younger players have have worn and the finer suspension is shirt and tie, I think, for two weeks.

Oh, if the outfit's bad enough? Yeah. I like it. Honestly, as a general manager, believe it or not, this is also one of the many things that you must weigh in on. And the best way for this to be implemented, literally, is to have the players do it. Not even the coach. Let the players regulate themselves.

And then just let them run wild with. It's just one less thing you have to worry about. I always thought look sharp, play sharp. We grew up in that era Kipper where we were forced to wear a suit to every game. But I have noticed recently, certainly the last few years, seeing guys after games. It feels like you guys are talking about tinted visors and pick up hockey. That's what it feels like. So that's not right, in my opinion.

Lots. Yes, good point. Very good point. We're in Montreal one night, and we hear we're calling up Darren Langdon. And Mark Messier finds out that Darren Langdon does not own a suit. We went out on St. Catharines. Mark Messier, $1,200 Hugo Boss, shirt, tie, belt, shoes, the kid comes in

with his bag brand new suit hanging in his stall oh that's nice that's a hell of love it right leadership if that had been you or I it would have been tip top

poor tip top a very solid Canadian company over the years hey where would graduation be without tip top I apologize if I've insulted any of your sponsors.

All right, let's change gears a little bit to the Olympics. And teams limping in one we cover on our Leaf Hour edition, beat up on the blue line. So my question to you, Brian, is that I think it's not a secret that this was going to be an issue moving forward. but is it gone to the point where it's become such a big issue that either the Players Association or Gary Bettman or some of the owners go, oh, no, we need to revisit this thing in another couple of years.

I think it would have to be on the radar at this stage. You don't ever want to see anybody get caught shorthanded over there. It's obviously doubly challenging when you're playing across the big pond as opposed to if it was in North America like we saw. you know, with Thomas Harley, even though he may have not been geolocated tremendously close to the four nations. He was still able to pop back in as a late edition. And that would be something that would really cause a lot of hesitation and trepidation for the guys trying to put these teams together. I think it's something they should look at, you know, there's so many different storylines with this.

I look at Seth Jones. For the NHL owners, lots. for the NHL owners who have a business and rely now on playoff revenue to make the difference between a loss of $5 million or a gain of $5 million. Like I appreciate that the players want it, but if it's going to cost me a potential playoff scenario, I got to think that they're not that happy about it. I'd say honestly, Kipper, the genie's out of the bottle. I mean, I was fortunate enough to play in a world juniors.

I played on three national teams. Two of them were Canada Cups. One of them was a world championship. And they're just things you're really proud of. You know, it just, it gives you memories of being a kid when none of us played this game for money. We just played it because we loved it. And even though we may have wanted to make it to the NHL, it's still not why any of us started out. So I think that now that the genie's out of the ball.

bottle. It's, owners would really have to put their foot down and steamroll the NHL PIA. You're exactly right in your point. It makes no sense for the ownership. And yet when you talk to some owners, some of them don't really care. They love that their guys are playing on a biggest, on a bigger stage in theory than the regular season of the NHL. The Olympics are global. The attention that it brings to the game is incredible. Is it always worth it? No. When you see players like JT get injured in the past,

you see the stress that it's putting on now just to finalize teams, it's a massive inconvenience. But I've always given the NHL a lot of credit for allowing it because they do need to allow it. But I also am quite familiar with how badly players want to do this. Well, it's interesting watching, like, other sports, and their attempts to globalize their game because they want to make more money. So you look at the Major League Baseball and you got a couple of Asian players who are fantastic

and their massive successes and they bring in massive dollars. A whole new market comes with them when you bring them to the Dodgers. You know, we tried to do that here with the Toronto Blue Jays. Football is playing in London. There could be a team in London at some point. So for the NHL, is this just their best chance at bringing in other markets, showing them the game, is there any value for eventually what is hockey related revenue for the league? Can we pull in an audience that's not in North America somehow?

You never hear about it, but, you know, the NHL is making a lot of money around the world. They haven't blown it wide open to the point where it's just been a no-brainer. But eventually they're going to, and it's going to be because of events like the Olympics. You know, as a young person, there really was no bigger, and I was a massive NHL fan when I was younger, but there was no bigger event than 1980, especially for an American-born kid that was essentially 14 at the time. It was a massive event. We've never seen anything really like it from the Olympics, and yet I think it really has risen in terms of the profile of the game. game. The bigger concern right now for, you know, when I look across and I haven't done any studies on this,

but I'd like to see another real spurt in growth, in growth for players in Ontario, for instance, which is down a little bit. Olympics are a way to attack that as well as a lot of other behavioral changes. But, you know, this is an, this is an infinite game for the NHL trying, like it is for all the other sports, just trying to grow this game globally, try to make it bigger. I would love one day for there to be an affiliated league playing in Europe, because I do think it could support it. Logistically, it's not easy, but when that happens, you'll know that hockey's a global game.

You're watching and listening to Brian Lott and former NHL player agent, general manager. Lott's, we're starting to see more teams look like they're on the outside looking in. I don't know, 10 days ago, two weeks ago, probably we'd be looking at 28 or 29 teams undecided. I don't know how you feel about where Columbus is, Nashville, we assume the Rangers are all out,

according to their letter. Chicago's out, the flames are out, the jets we don't have contending, do we? The Blues, Canucks, does that mean more players up for sale? Will we see a hardier trade deadline, pre-deadline before the Olympics? What are your thoughts on that? I don't think we'll see it much hardier, but we will see some things happen before the deadline.

It's just too enticing. We already saw it, obviously, with Rasmus Anderson. You know, that's a pretty big deal. That's the type of deal that generally would be a trade deadline deal, and it's already, you know, been consummated. The only reason, you know, not as bullish is we, although we have some teams that are looking like they won't be in it, you'd be surprised how many GMs when you talk to them are still, you know, if we could just win 10 games in a row, like the Buffalo Sabres or the Minnesota Wild, you know, are some of these teams that at some point this year were looking out of it,

but then had incredible runs, you can turn your season around. The probability of those things is a lot lower, but there's guys that still think that way when you talk to them. Even though they're the first ones to admit that, you know, they've got some deficiencies they're trying to correct, but it's hard to do when there's not a lot of momentum. The break this year really makes it a weird year. Whenever you have an Olympic break, I went through one in Tampa.

I remember we desperately wanted to train. for Jordan Leopold at the time, who was in Florida. He ended up getting traded to, I believe, the Boston Bruins instead. But we had a deal going into the break, and Florida didn't do it. And then they came back with a better deal when the break was over. And that really shocked me. I tried to do that deal before the break, because we actually had some money to spend,

and I knew that Florida was looking to move some money, so I thought that might do it. do it. And it was the strangest deal ever because I was offering to take the player and for them to give me a second round pick. And in the end, they ended up getting like two second round picks. Gee, so I commend them from that. I think it was the Boston Bruins traded for them. Yeah. So you have all these wild circumstances that come up. It'll be interesting and it will be fascinating. But time is getting late in the season for teams. to have the kind of runs that they know they need to get back into playoff contention.

Lots, you did the role of the agent as well as general manager. And so this agent role, I wonder how it's changed over the years. Right now it feels like, you know, particularly out of the Canucks camp, we're hearing that it's the agent that is finding trades for teams or talking to other teams or facilitating backdoor connections and word into media members. And the role of the agent feels different than maybe, what it used to be. Am I right in saying that?

You're 100% right. You're feeling that a couple of things are changing the NHL. What is that teams are becoming more reluctant to want to trade even for good players just as a rental? And conversely, that's giving a lot of power

to the player. We saw that with Rasmus Anderson, who potentially was going to end up on a team in the east, eventually ends up in Vegas. But that was due solely in my opinion to not only the players having power, because they've always had some trade protection, but they seem more willing to exert it in today's world. And quite frankly, this is really a big problem, in my opinion, for a lot of teams down the road, because they already know

they're in that position. You could go through and find really good players, and they've been there for a long time and they may not be staying if their fortunes haven't already included some serious winning. There's a number of guys I can think of like that. And that is a scare, as you talk to GMs and you ask them about it, you can see the trepidation. Those are going to be difficult circumstances to navigate. Not everybody is going to do what Connor McDavid did and stay in his city and play for less. So I just think the world is changing and conversely to come back to your point, it's giving the agents a lot more power. They're not actually, a lot of GMs are more open about this as well because they know how hard it is just to stir conversations, especially if everybody is flat.

So you do the next best thing, you just call the, you know, when the agent calls you and says, what's going on, you say nothing, you say, why don't you give it a shot? they really don't have any power to get it done, but they can bring some interest to the table. So lots, when you speak of this power, and you mentioned that not a lot of players are going to do what Connor McDavid did, will we see more of what Quinn Hughes did? All we heard in the last six months is there's plenty of time

for Quinn Hughes, who still has another year and a half on his contract, and they'll figure it out down the road, and then Quinn Hughes and his agent go, No, you've got to figure it out now. That one became a bit of a national spectacle. Any one of us, you know, on this call right now, saw some things that we wouldn't have liked as hockey people

that were transpiring in games. Jimmy Rutherford and Patrick Alvin, I mean, they're experienced guys in this league. They know what they're doing. They did not like the way it was going. What you're saying is true. and yet at the same time, I haven't asked Jimmy or Patrick this, but I would suspect that they saw the writing on the wall and they were going to wait around for this to get worse.

They actually, in my opinion, made a pretty strong deal, as strong a deal as you could under those circumstances. Yeah, those are, that ended up being decent. It's going to be funny to see how many assets they have if they do it with a few other guys, too. Yeah. Well, one move recently that caught my eye, I wanted to get you to wait. in on for us is Josh Don't signs a contract with the Buffalo Sabres for seven years,

just under $7 million a season. It doesn't have a long track record, but this is more common now. What are your thoughts on this sort of trend in contracts for guys who haven't really proven it in the NHL for a long period yet? A couple of thoughts, and they won't both make sense. More teams doing this and taking more risk. But in Josh Don't's case, I've watched a lot of the Buffalo Savers game. We just all had him undervalued.

I'll be honest with him. He's gone there and played terrific. Should we be surprised with the character of his father and the career he had? It's not always the same, but he's just turned out to be a really valuable player. I think that's a great contract for him. I think that'll be a great contract for the club. He's literally exploded and developed into a significantly more important piece just from the time of the trade. And I don't think people, most people had it that way.

It was a nice acquisition as part of it. But boy, he's played terrific. He deserves every penny of that. Good for him. He also has a father that knows how it can go in this league. And probably, you know, when your son comes to you and says, what do you think, $49 million, you know, I think I'm worth more. You'd be surprised how many NHL players would say,

son, you should take that. and show them how good you are and come back after that and get another contract. But at least lock that. It's a lot of money. It really truly is. And I think it's a good decision for Josh. I'd be curious to hear what Shane had to say about it. But at the end of the day, he's just played terrific for Buffalo.

And I do think teams are absorbing a lot more risk in today's world, which, you know, that's what you're paid for when you're managing a team to make these. huge decisions for the organization. Some people, they're not all going to turn out, is what I'm trying to say. But I do think on a whole, if you know your player, it's the right thing to do. It's not getting any cheaper down the line. Just one more from a general manager's perspective, Latson, you've had plenty of experience on this, is we hear the term asset management a lot these days.

Is it any different from any other era, even prior to a lot? a salary cap? Is it more important today than ever before? Because I think what we're going to see this trade deadline is not the same type of players we've seen in the past, but maybe it's a Utah that's really aggressive this trade deadline. Or, you know, San Jose Sharks, which we haven't seen in five or six years. And it's based on the things that the average fan can't see.

And that is, you know, all these these, these. these assets of prospects and picks. The NHL is significantly different. I mean, if you think of the error, we had what, Espos, Cliff Fletcher, Slats, you know, just a group of guys that were so warm and fuzzy. Harry Sinden. They were so warm and cozy and friendly.

This is the days where you could trade your player, and then they'd send them back to you in the offseason. if you had a little playoff run. The league has evolved from that now. There's so much, and people would barely even notice those things if you looked back. There were players that would get traded, then they would end up back on our team.

And it was like a favor. It's like you two guys are buddies, and one of you is out, and the other one's still in. So I'll give you this guy, just give them back to me later, give me something. It's all changed now. And there's so much information, and there's so much,

just analysis of what everybody's doing, that it does make it more complicated. There is a lot more pressure, but GMs are also a lot more aware that in a salary cap world, you can get away with rebuilding, certainly retooling, but it can't go on forever. You know, the ownership groups look at this, says, look, we've all got the same amount to play with. we expect to be competitive. You may have started a time when the team, you know, I started in Tampa when the team had finished last. So you know you have a little bit of runway, but it's not as long as it used to be. That's for sure. You've got to get things going and general managers recognize that and they are trying to be more active. But in general, my takeaway is there's still

a lot of guys that are very hesitant to make big moves. really go out on a limb where he could get five. In Tampa, it did with Stamcoaston, Headman. That's for sure. Lots, great stuff, man. You really appreciate your time. We'll do it again soon. Fantastic, guys.

Great to see you. Thanks for having me on. Thanks, lots. Appreciate it. Brian Lotton. Good stuff. I wrote today in the Toronto Star about just that whole. dynamic of the Quinn Hughes thing

and how these stars, and you've mentioned this, how much they, you like the power that they have and how much they can dictate now? Yeah, you know, like is maybe not the right word for it. I think oftentimes I appreciate that, you know, you're not stuck in one spot if it's a poorly run organization.

I don't love the idea of guys being like, ah, we look like a 20th place team. I'd rather play for a 10th place team. you know, if things are being run well. But this is what it is. It is a lot of more player movement for big names. Connor McDavid now and Austin are two guys that are kind of matched up right now with two years after this season.

Same agent. Right? Judd? Both are agents. Rangers are going to clear money, New York City. McDavid Matthews. I think. I don't. This is a city in Canada.

Never before. I think these stars. will look over an organization you know under a microscope are the Rangers in a position to challenge for Stanley

Cup in three years yeah I mean it would be if they had those two guys yeah no no no that fixes things quickly no I don't think so you don't think they're better or closer no

but can I win a Stanley Cup Sam maybe no no they can't they can't egos should start Again, that is the worst team in the league. You need, you need prospects that are going to be good in two or three years, like high-end prospects. We're talking like most siders. And those players are tough to find.

Starting for your Utah Mammoth. Maybe. Maybe. They'll be ready in two or three years. Would come un-glute. Gary Betman would void any contract. It's game time. Presented by Bet365.

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And when we return, we'll follow up a little bit on the Ottawa situation with Allmark, that conversation around mental health. Dr. Dana Sinclair psychologist works with sports teams she'll join us next a little different version than Dr. Doctor Doctor, Doctor.

Yeah. But this one's a smarter doctor. Oh. This one has more room to help you and I, I think. Our joints are okay. Our brains are not. Here you go. Did you do lips?

Did you do chins? Chin. All right. That when we return, to Real Kippren Boren. Hey, it's Blake Murphy. And I'm Matt Bonner. Join us weekday mornings at 11 as we break down all things Toronto Raptors.

It's the Raptor show on Sportsnet 590 The Fan. And wherever you get your podcasts. As a reminder, this hour of Real Kippron Bourne brought to you by Bet365. Okay, so much talk about Allmark in his interview earlier about obviously the issues that he's had. just after Christmas. And just to pick up on that conversation overall on mental health,

let's welcome in Dr. Dana Ciclair, registered psychologist and holds a doctorate at the University of Cambridge and the University of Ottawa and certainly can shed more light on the present day pressures from goaltenders to any athletes in general. Dr. Dana, thank you for joining us.

How are you? I'm pretty good. Nice to see you guys. Yeah. Thanks. Let's just start on just the challenges of today's athletes compared to maybe years past. And in particular, we've seen some goalies taking time off. The latest one, of course, Linus Almark in Ottawa. And just is it different today, opposed to yesterday or a decade ago longer, in terms of what they have to deal with on a day-to-day pressure?

and, you know, does this revolve around social media? Like, what are your thoughts on that? Well, there are all sorts of factors that can, you know, add in and help somebody in terms of getting anxious and worrying about expectations. But really, mental health, it is a pretty hot topic these days, but which is a good thing because, you know, we want to open up the dialogue a little bit

about how we can help people learn to manage their emotions when it counts. when there's pressure, we all have pressure. As I always say, no matter who you are, what you do, you're always going to have pressure moments. So we've all got to pay attention to our mental health. Just sometimes you're on the right side of it and you've got to be able to do something to know what to do when you're on the wrong side of it. So I don't know that the pressures are any different. I mean, people make certain kinds of money, they worry about results, but people have always wanted to do well. Everybody always wants to be great.

So no, I don't really think it's that different. It's just we're getting better at talking about it. And there's more strategies out there that we can grab onto to try to help ourselves when we do find those pressure moments. Thanks for joining us, Dr. Stinclair. I wanted to get your thoughts. So like the public conversation on mental health is night and day different from 10 years ago because there is one. It's, you know, the words come up all the time. I wonder how you think that has affected society and athletes.

Generally, you know, I think sometimes we have, you know, a 10-year-old or a young boy will come up against something and be like, I've got anxiety. It's like, you know, you feel anxious about something. You've got a project due or whatever. You know, how is it, I guess how is affecting how we think about how we feel? Okay. Well, there's a difference. There's clinical symptoms when there's a real illness going on.

And that's when people really need to sort of check out, take a break, refocus. But we all deal with subclinical symptoms all the time of anxiety, depression, whatever you want to call it. It's just when it, you know, it's a daily thing. Sometimes it's okay. Sometimes it's not. People are talking more about it. So sometimes people get a little bit, I think, over the top in terms of how they're describing their feelings. Because we've all got to learn to shift when we drift.

We all get into mental clutter. or we all get into some anxiety here and there, some tension, worrying about what people think, all of those things, worrying about results. So I think we've all just got to sort of settle down a little bit, keep talking about it, learn what it means, and either go talk to someone. Like you can get it from help from a friend, from a partner,

doesn't have to be a therapist or anything like that. Sometimes it's just talking a little bit about it, getting a strategy or two, learning how to fix yourself and move on. As far as the gatekeepers to the game, either a coach or a general manager, a president, do they need to be better educated on identifying when it's mental health and when it's just a player or an athlete that needs a good kick in the pants? I don't know that they need to be better educated

because I think we all need a kick in the pants here and there and I think the individuals are pretty good these days at saying, hey, you know what? I need a little bit of support here, a little bit of assistance. I mean, all teams have somebody around that somebody can go to and say, hey, I'm not sure that this is going very well for me, what can you do for me? So I don't know that they need to be all that better educated.

People pretty much know. when somebody's having some trouble. Yeah. You know, I've been actually, I'm happy to get to ask this question because we were talking about it the other day on our show where, you know, if you're a coach in the NHL and your job is to squeeze the most out of your players,

you got to get the most. Someone came here who was a star player when they were younger, well, you can find another 5% out of that guy. And when you lean on all your guys, 20 guys, 25 guys, there's going to be a couple people who it's too much or you're struggling to find the line. You know, that's a real challenge for coaching today, right? Is how to find ways to get more without pushing anyone to the point where they're hurt by it.

Right. But do people these days, do coaches really push people that hard? I'm sure they yell and they scream and they demand this and they demand that. But is that actually wrong or bad? Well, that's a great question. And I'd love to hear that maybe it's not wrong to get yelled at. as a player because I think sometimes it's helpful. Well, you are going to get yelled at here and there.

If it's ongoing and it's, you know, punitive, obviously that's not going to help. That's no good. Correct? Yeah, yeah. Right. So individually, though, like the clients that I work with, whether it's an NFL quarterback or a Formula One driver or a surgeon or a big-time musician, what we work on is actually having to deal with that pressure that you're going to feel.

And usually you're going to feel the pressure from yourself. Because it's really meaningful. You want to do a great job. And you get caught up in, as I say, the mental clutter that can derail us in the moment when we really need to get to our skills. You know, talent isn't what ensures success. It's really the mental approach. And learning how to manage that for yourself is key.

And we've got to take responsibility for that as individuals, too, to figure out how to get the most out of ourselves and when to sort of push back. And, as I say, sometimes go sit down or check out. Yeah. You're watching and listening to Dr. Dana Sinclair, registered psychologist, working with sports teams and athletes. Doctor, when it comes to the timing and all of this,

and we didn't hear from Allmark for roughly 20, 23 days, somewhere in that vicinity. And he spoke in his interview about being in a dark place. And I'm just wondering now, to see him in front of a, national audience explaining all of this, you know, when mere weeks ago, you know, he was in a very tough place. Is there, sometimes you can look at it and go, okay, maybe that's too early or that's the right time. Can someone bounce back in two or three weeks and be ready to go in 30 days? Some guys have disappeared for months, sometimes needing half a season. Is there a right or

wrong or is it just a very individual thing on how much time someone needs to be reset, if that's a term? I think it is a term. And I think it is very individual. It depends on what's gone on, what's gone on in the past, how that person deals with things personality-wise, right? What's the maturity level? What's the perfectionist level?

What is, you know, how competent are they naturally? All those things factor in to how. how someone can move through something and how quickly they can. Sometimes this is very brief. And, of course, in this situation, none of us know the details. So I wouldn't want to comment. Yes. Dr. Dana, I read your book, Dial-in.

I reference it often. It's very good. Bestseller. I'm sure it is, is it? Yes, I have no doubt. Are you working on another one? What's the next one you got coming? I am.

It's on mega performers. So talking about how some of these people, you know, like the Magic Johnsons and, You know, the top business guys actually become very successful. Yeah, Magic Johnson did okay for himself. He did. So just, yeah, talking about those mental keys that allow people to move forward and deal with the pressures and the stress of their careers.

So dialed in, as I mentioned, a bestseller and now recently released in paperback. Is that correct? That's correct. And we have a mutual friend in Kevin Hansen, who also worked on my book. undrafted and somehow we still speak to him, right? Well, I know, I just spoke to him today and I'm not quite sure why now. Wow, this tells you how much we like them because we're taking the fun pokes at him. Yeah, I really appreciate your insight in this and I know it's an ongoing battle and we're so

thankful to have people like you, doctor, looking after us. My pleasure, come me, Danny, you guys. It's always great. I appreciate your time. Thanks so much. Thanks, guys. Dr. Dana Sinclair. They weren't around when you played. No, they were around. Oh, really?

Yeah, they were around. You guys had someone willing to listen. Yeah. We had, in New York, we had Dr. Botterill. Oh, is that right? Yes. Related to the Bottarles? Dad.

No kidding. Yeah, yeah. That's pretty cool. And, yeah, him and Mike Keenan had a good relationship. And I think my era was older than obviously yours, but it was kind of up to date a little bit on that sort of stuff. Yeah, well, and I think organization to organization is different too, right? Some are more progressive than others.

Do we feel like all marks skating again with the team or we're still waiting for? I think that's happened. I don't think we're feeling. I think that's happened, right? I mean, is he coming back? They're at the point here where it's, you know, the season on the line here. They need a good run. I'm not saying he needs to be the guy.

It's got to be, if it's James Reimer or him, they just need some goal tending, man. So, hold on. Jaaja texted me and told me that you wanted some. Yeah, John McEnroe. He's covering the Australian Open. Okay.

Is that happening right now? Yeah, it's going on right now. That's the one that's like on. And I guess he just broke into talking about the New York Rangers. What? Yeah. But doesn't he play in a band with Hank? Oh, yeah.

Right? Oh, yeah. They're a pretty good life. Oh, they're rockers. But I'm just like, somebody mentioned that there's something out there. And I have not heard it, but I thought it would be interesting if Zaja founded for us.

Do we have it, Derek? I don't know. Do we have it? I think we, if not, there's a lot of lead up for nothing. I said, okay. Nothing?

Well, it plays on a rival network. I don't know if we had to play it. Oh, okay. Well, maybe we could have done that before I, built it up. Just use your imagination, people. I would imagine it has to do with the lack of success

for the New York Rangers. Oh, is he frustrated? Oh, he's a huge ranger fan. Derek, listen to it and then do a transcribe into my ear. And then I'll do it as as you said. Oh, it's fine. It's probably it's probably not even that, you know, big of a deal.

But it is a big of a deal when you got a guy in another major sport. covering a major Oh, really depressing. I mean, it ain't talking about Columbus here, right? No, it is cool, though.

And, you know, you see Will Ferrell recently talking about the Kings and getting these guys on board. They just played it in my ear. Is he upset? And he says, oh, it's just really depressing. It's just really depressing watching it. It's like, for me, when they traded Truba,

and then that's the last part of it. So, needless to say, he went into some detail. But he's got such a... They probably cut his mic. He's got such a distinct voice. I think that's hilarious. That's awesome. I think it's hilarious.

There's got to be no sports. Well, a few sports harder to cover, but like there's so much time to fill in tennis between points and obviously golf is like that too. I find, I don't know, I'll save my tennis takes, but like you tell me in the final game of the of Wimbledon after five sets. Yeah. In thralling. But I'm like, it just just takes too long. It's just too much of the sports. It's just doing the same thing.

for too long. Like, my opinion... That's the least insightful sports comment I've ever heard. The championship match at Wimbledon should be one set. Oh my God. One set. Did you see...

One set to end them all. It's like, you got... Stuck in traffic and you're coming back for one point. So, hold on. They just had a tournament that was win a point against their pro, win a point. And you could win a million dollars at the end of the...

event. It was like 64 people there were tennis pros in it, complete slubs, and some slub won it. Really? Yeah. You can hit a long ball and it can be out by this much. I think Sinner double faulted in the thing. Yeah. This has got to be AI. All right. Also, I just

wanted to say that you were talking about your gear Borny. Yeah. Out of the top about how you were a Tinted advisor. I was actually able to track down a picture of you and Colonna. I don't know if you could pull it up. I don't know where we found this picture. How cool is that?

You really look like Oveckin in this picture. 18 years old. That looks like that was so sick. The Oakley had the tight curved ones too that were pretty thin. Yeah, I got to tell you. That's a lot of windshield, but that's a big one. That's palsy, man, to try to think that you can look cool with NHLers on the ice. Yeah, it was not.

It was not the case. I did not. I got to tell you, I'm with you. I thought that was the cool. thing ever. It was very cool. When he was doing that, Kipper probably hated it.

I got to tell you, though, like hockey culture. You're, like, in a movie with Schwarzenegger. I got to tell you, hockey culture the way it is, though, if you were in those games, like all the guys who played

in the NHL wore their jersey inside out, no logos, like you didn't want to look, like, you didn't want to seem boastful or, like, stand out. So a visor like that is particularly arrogant. I also once brought out a buddy

who tried hard. Oh, that's even worse than the visor. He's trying hard for. like 22 minutes and guys are talking about it on the bench and it was actually West Walls lit him up just lit them up just said no contact game kid was trying too hard and they just he just they ended that oh yeah that's there's summer shunny there's unspoken rules we could do a whole show on like the etiquette of a like a pickup skate yeah right like shifts too long no go you know trying just a little bit too hard no go like there's a line you know the line yeah yeah

You can't not try. You cannot try. You also can't try. You can't try. You nailed it. You nailed it. Got to have shifts too long. Yeah.

I hate long shifts. Long shift guys. That's really obnox. It is. In a game like that. Good thing. The time we played together, I was too gassed after 19 seconds. We had quick shifts.

We just scored every shift. You should have got off the ice sooner today before you wore one of the mouth. My face is sore. I just got to go home and rest on the couch if my wife is listening. Really. And maybe dinner on the couch. You got to have to eat through a straw. You can't chew with those guns.

Smoothy night, kid. I'm not feeling well. I just called him kid all day today for no reason. Our thanks to Brian Lott and former National Hockey League. Player agent and Dr. Dana Sinclair. We're back tomorrow. Mac or no Mac? No Mac tomorrow.

No Mac. He's on a golfing trip with Joe. Oh, my gosh. He emailed me this morning. You're going to have to come up with a big guess. Good luck. Jajah, good on it, bud. We got an idea.

Eight games tonight. enjoy yours and we're back tomorrow