Real Kyper & Bourne - Playing Down and Paying the Price

Episode Date: February 13, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee begin with a brief look back at the Super Bowl and the controversial end to the game before checking in on the Leafs' home-and-home over the weekend against Columbus. They discuss the team's effort levels against poorer teams, William Nylander showing his greasy side and the problems with the bottom six. Then, former NHLer Anthony Stewart discusses the conditioning challenge coming back from the All-Star break, the importance of Michael Bunting's antics and assesses Sheldon Keefe's season (41:44). Long-standing NHL head coach and NHL Network's Bruce Boudreau breaks down Keefe's comments about effort and passion, what the Leafs need to do at the deadline and shares some stories and the challenges he faced from his time in Vancouver (1:04:54). Kyper, Bourne and Sam close with a chat about available defencemen at the deadline and their pricetags.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

This is Real Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590 The Van. A crazy weekend. What a way to kick off our show this week on this Monday. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, General Nick, Derek Brandeo, and the next mayor of Toronto, Sammy McKee. Oh boy. What do you think? You want the job? A bit of a tortured history with this position, I'd say. Maybe not.

You're dressed for it. Sam in full suit today. Y'all are missing a scene. And he doesn't sound as good as he looks, though. Well, thank you. Well, I got a little bit of a, you know, it's a big weekend. But I'm powering through for the boys. Oh, boy. Are it's a big weekend. But I'm powering through for the boys. Oh, boy.

Are you? I was trying. We've got Sammy on a little bit of a Super Bowl hangover. No, no hangover. No hangover. Just a strained voice from yelling at the TV. A lot of yelling involved in the game yesterday. Yeah.

Did you have Kansas City? I did. I had Philly. Did you? Yeah, I did. I did. I had KC. I had KC.

I, you know, betting against my home sucks. So I didn't want to do it again. Just before we move on, a horrible holding call penalty that killed the last minute and a half. Yeah. Like, this is where the officials have to take somewhat of a page out of the National Hockey League. And if it's not a real blatant scoring opportunity, then you have to kind of lean against making the call. Are you with me? 100%.

I want to ask, I think Micah Blake McCurdy might be the guy for this, but I want to see in the NHL how penalties are called by minute and how they decline late in games and overtime in playoffs. You have to murder someone in the third period of a close game in the playoffs. Overtime in the playoffs in the NHL, you literally can cut a guy's head off on the ice. And you'll have people say, well, the refs are deciding it by not calling those penalties. And it's like, I don't know, not really.

I'm with you. You got to let the boys figure it out. Come on. Give us a minute and a half to see if they can get within the distance to send this thing. So it's a little harder, a little more grabbing, a little more contentious. Now, how did you feel about Kansas City not walking in the touchdown and then playing out the last 11 seconds on the field goal it's the right call 100 and it's i don't know it is of course it is well i worked out there's no question but you tell me something a bad snap and where were you on that call you want to see

him get the points right kipper there is just no question there's no way that that was not the right move by him but it worked out great for sure all i know is the uh my tweet about the game was that you know i didn't not calling the nfl shysty but i'm not betting against them wanting patrick mahomes to do well and him getting a pi call in the final minutes listen i would be so mad if I was a Philly fan at the guy that held. And then he said after the game that he did hold him. So you don't even really get to blame the bad call anymore because the guy who held him said he held him. That guy cannot say that if you're a Philly fan. It would drive you insane that he said that.

It wasn't a catchable ball, though. But that doesn't matter. It's not PI. It's the hold before the ball. It's a hold. I'll take your word for it. Listen, I'm not Gene Steratore over here. I'm not throwing to me for rules expert,

but I know that it sucked to have it end that way. But it was a great game. Yeah. And a great halftime show. Well, listen, we're glad you're looking so good. Thank you. Tonight we... Sammy's my date tonight.

Yes, that's special. How romantic. We're dressed up a little bit. Tonight will be what they call a night with the blue and white. Brought to you, by the way, by Rogers. So it's a leaf gallon night. Cool. My wife's a little under the weather battling, I think I gave her what I had last week.

Yeah, she's got the Ontario's in February. So filling in for Miss Anne-Marie, my good buddy, Sammy McKee. Your wife's not 6'6", is she? I was reading the details. It's like Maple Leafs alumni and their significant others. And I'm like, okay.

You are another and you're significant. My significant producer. Yeah, that's sweet. That's how I'm going to introduce you tonight. I'm really looking forward to it, Kipper. The only question is Sammy What kind of mood Are the boys going to be in

Or their head coach Sheldon Keefe Coming off A regulation loss To the Columbus Blue Jackets Saturday night At home JB I can't be good

We're going to play some clips here from sheldon and all keifer was not not feeling it you know unfortunately for this team you know sam you got this in the uh in our lineup here maple leafs this season against bottom eight teams have five wins and 13 tries five wins and 13 tries this year meanwhile we were saying the bruins are what like i think they've lost one or two out of 12 or 13 yeah something up like they've gotten 10 10 2 and 2 or something just they pick up the found money and they move on meanwhile the leafs are kicking it into the gutter every chance they can get so you understand why there's some frustration this one i went to the game saturday night and i'm watching that first period like everybody else

it's two nothing and i don't think columbus had three shots on goal yeah in the first 16 17 minutes of the game and it looked every bit as dominant as it did 24 hours ago in columbus this was a back-to-back where you were gonna take your four points yeah and wave goodbye to the the blue jackets yep and something happened exactly what you're talking about happened they felt that it was just going to be that they're going to let us take our four points and be on our merry way columbus is already bad let alone on a back-to-back surely they'll roll over this is going to be easy and then they played like that all right let's go to sheldon keith for our first kippers clipper of the week on where he saw the biggest issue Saturday night. Find it to be more of an effort situation or an execution situation?

Effort. Yeah. Competitiveness. Simple. Oof. Oh, my God. You don't get any clearer than that. So we're still doing this?

Yeah. We're still doing this? Yes. Every time they play a crappy team, we have to go through this again? Let me ask you because i can i can i can sense the emotion of you sammy right now and uh i'm worried about taking you to the blue and white gala to be honest with you here i'll be fine you're not going to uh you know cause a scene are you no because i'm so low-key at these things people won't even know

i'm there kipper i am an incredibly low key person when I need to be. So listen, get out your frustration in the next two hours. We're here for you. If you need to leave... Lay down on the leather couch here. Come on, we'll pull a blanket for you and you can just start spilling your

guts. What is the biggest disappointment or issue you saw Saturday night, Sammymy that we're still doing this that every like i know nobody wins there's no guaranteed wins in the nhl like i understand that but i think the friday night would have been a more acceptable loss than saturday night you know you're coming back first game from a break you get caught the fact that they kick the crap out of columbus they come home and they lose on home ice after a dominant first period why are we always still having these let down spot conversations it's it's a epidemic with this team it always happens columbus had 21 shots

in the second period of that game 21 shots 40 on the game in toronto for this defensively improved leafs team so where was the biggest breakdown for you like where where was the lack of competitive uh competitiveness or or lack of effort as sheldon put it for you saturday night forwards defensively out of the offensive end like you know you don't see guys covering covering up for one another and defending out of their other end the hard things didn't see much of that didn't see much covering up for one another and defending out of their other end. The hard things, didn't see much of that. Didn't see much scrappiness in front of the net. Clear in the front of the net.

Like the Corrali goal where they made it 3-2. Was it Corrali that scored the third one? Yeah, Morgan Riley is kind of... But he's just standing there whacking away at the pads and those battles in front of the net is an effort thing. It's an effort thing and It's an effort thing. And they didn't have it. For me, the biggest switch was when Columbus took a physical aspect to the Leafs. Like the physical battles that they just wanted the puck more.

They fought for it harder. They out-muscled the Leafs. That, to me, was the biggest look that I saw Saturday night and I that that's that was the compete that Sheldon was talking about they just wanted it more and when they started to push a little harder it almost looked like Columbus grew about two or three inches and the Leafs shrunk two or three inches yeah they got run over Saturday night in the back half of that game. Until our boy Willie threw an elbow-button combo in there, which, you know, not a great penalty, but I don't know.

You know, do we want to weigh in? Do we want to hear Keefe on some of the discipline? Did that get away from them a little bit for you? Yeah, without a doubt. All right. Let's listen to Sheldon. I mean, when's the last time you've seen really Nylander retaliate or something like that?

I kind of like it, to be honest. You know, they want to take runs at him every now and again. He's going to make the other team aware of it. You know, but obviously in Bunt's situation, that's entirely different. You know, that's something he's got to stay on that line. Okay, hold on for a second. This is where Sheldon got caught.

You want to talk about discipline and not putting yourself in a position to retaliate, but he couldn't help himself. He's like, but I really liked it. You're not supposed to do that, except if Willie wants to do that he can that's fine so there's two messages there yeah well the rules don't apply to everyone and i don't know how you felt about your own coaches but to me you don't coach everyone with the same

rules like everyone's like ah we have a guy who treats everyone the same superstars same treatment that's not how it works there are different rules for different people are there not oh without a doubt no questions asked and watching watching it happen and listening to sheldon's comments that everything that we've said about this team, he just validated for us. All of those moments where you wanted somebody to step up and we had a small window of it maybe three weeks ago with the back-to-back games with Simmons fighting Foligno in Boston and then the follow-up game with a couple of the bottom six guys

scrapping it out. Aston Reese coming to the rescue of one of his players getting hit. But all Sheldon did was validate that I kind of like it. It's something that isn't in our repertoire when it comes to playing this game. It's not there. So that's what you kind of liked. It's kind of validating what's been missing maybe for him as a coach.

Yeah. And, you know, the interesting part is how different it is for a guy like Bunting who, you know, we've talked on this show about how it's gotten away from him a little bit in terms of getting the calls he's not getting the calls anymore he seems to be doing more to try to take penalties last year he was a plus 13 penalty differential as in he drew 13 more than he took and this year he's almost even he's plus two so you know i think that that message is much more about bunting than willie yeah and the line is literally plus two. Like, he's two away from it being bad.

Yes. The actual line is right there. Plus 13, he's playing on the right side of the line. Plus two, you're way too close to the line. Yeah, and it's getting there. Certainly, it's different than it was last year. Did that unsportsmanlike call on him between the benches just completely again uh i don't know another word to use but validate how the officials look at michael bunting from here on in i think that's

a that should be a reality check for him that that's how he's going to be things are going to be called now you're you're a known guy at this point for for the refs and to me it absolutely has to now fair or unfair and there are times when he should get the benefit of the doubt and get the call but you've almost like lost that. Again, fair or unfair, it doesn't really matter. It's kind of gone. Yeah. And for me, in the last, what do we say they have, 28 games to go? Correct, yeah. 28 games to go.

This guy has to be on his very best behavior. And you're going to draw penalties. Just way he plays yeah and how feisty he is blue paint will draw penalties but you got to do them subconsciously now yeah you cannot give any thought to kind of manipulating a situation or um uh uh embellishing any more than how it just naturally plays out. Or else, no

long stares to the officials, no talking to them. If I'm Sheldon Keefe or any veteran like Morgan Riley, I'm grabbing him and I'm saying, you don't look to an official, you don't look to an official you don't talk to him you are that's it you're shut down yeah play the game and everything around it we'll look after for you but you are not allowed now to uh to go down that path any longer yeah I agree with that

and you know he's a good enough player that he's a valuable contributor without any of those sort of antics so aside from that element for bunting do you think that loss on saturday is indicative indicative of a bigger problem with this team or is it just like good teams lose to bad teams all the time but i feel like coming out of this weekend we're hearing more drastic opinions on the Leafs. I don't know if you are, but talking to people I know with the Leafs, everyone's like, oh, this team. Everyone's so ready to quit on them.

Look at the barometer we have on the other side of the glass. He's down today. Sammy, this one bothered you. It did. Where did Saturday night rank with you all season long? And where would we have? And we've got a few choices with losses this year. We had the one in Anaheim early.

That's what I was going to put it up against. We've got Phoenix, or I'm sorry, Arizona, Coyotes, Detroit, I think. Yes. The Arizona one stands out to me in particular. Detroit is not Columbus. Detroit's got complainers. To me, this is in the very, very top echelon of frustrating losses for the Leafs this year.

Anaheim, horrible. That was at the start of the year when it was going bad. This is just bad. You can't lose a team like this on home ice to me. It's just, you sure you can get caught? I'm sound horrible. Sorry, boys. It's crack, and I thought I had it.

You're good. You're good. Yeah, it's a tough thing when you repeatedly do it. Yeah. Yeah, and it has been the trend with this group over the years, and you thought they were past it, but c'est la vie. Are they better off to finish to just drop into the wild card, let Buffalo catch them guys and get Carolina?

Okay, don't answer that. Let's go to Sheldon Keefer. I think we've got his thoughts on his bottom six. It's just habits, slump, and slunch is pure. It's the whole line. Those guys in particular, mean those guys to me last night those are they were our best line uh and they they were had good things happening tonight as well but we need to be able to really consistently like that line that's what they do they they got to be competitive they got to be great defensively they got to be um physical all those kind of

things and when all that slips um that's not acceptable so you know that's uh really as simple as that engville shut down in the second period did he not yeah on the missed assignment yeah he got benched he did it was a good benching you got justified yeah yeah you know i think it's necessary for people on the team to see someone get benched right to see some it's not a thing that he sheldon utilizes very often is taking away ice time we haven't seen it a ton so it was good to see but frustrating not to get more response i guess from from the fellas i think the weekend also is just another example that if if it's not mitch and willie and tavaris with his goals friday night if they're not going they don't win yeah well and you know i'm really hung up lately on the ken hitchcock comments about how

if you know the top two lines saw off in playoff series by the for the most part good teams have two good lines and those two lines saw off or thereabouts within a couple of goals and then it's what else do you have and the what else do you have question has been looming pretty large lately they're giving some run to you know steves, Steve's and Anderson and God knows who else, but that's not going to be the answer here. Are you okay with that? I mean, holding open auditions for the roster of the Toronto Maple Leafs

in late February, early March? I think if you haven't found something you better be i don't know you know as opposed to just saying here you go or it's trade time and i think we're safely at the point here we're within three weeks of trade deadline where it's like show us that we don't need to go get someone else and if you don't then we're going to go get someone else that's where it feels like it's at for me the other one too for uh the bottom six to me is just a a little bit of a drop off on on camp that yeah he interesting he's not getting any looks i don't know when the last time he scored great question i i i would think we're we're talking about 10 plus games i think it's way more you think it's way more i do i can't remember the last time he scored a goal that's he is the heart

of the bottom six oh my god the last time he scored was in early december oh wow two months since he scored a goal okay two months all right that's too much time for a guy who plays 15 minutes a night is that almost 20 games what are we talking about yeah oh yeah that to me is uh yeah that's a little bit of a concern and listen we we know he he almost went a whole season without scoring in chicago he's not he's not supposed to score no but there's on're on the ice enough. 25 games. 25? Yeah. Thank you. There's been a different look for him since he's been a Toronto Maple Leaf,

including one that creates more offense than he ever did in Chicago. You can't go that long without a goal. No. As a third-line guy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're right. As a third-line guy who plays 15 16 minutes

i've looked at the ice time among forwards and he's he sixth most among forwards so you got your four big guys yeah then i forget who would have snuck in there maybe kerfoot or yarn crock or someone but then it's him yeah you're gonna need some output and that that's why every time he scored in the past it felt like gravy um but yeah four goals on the season for camp so far this year you know last year felt like maybe it was the start of getting a little bit more from him also maybe that helps you keep them because you're not gonna have to pay them for any offense and all these guys they bring up are just so similar like steves and bobby mcmahon have they ever been seen in the same room oh i disagree on that but just guys that look good and can shoot it at the

net i don't see anything yeah he had like multiple chances in that game hit the post got stoned yeah that's right he actually ripped one off the post didn't he that's right he's had chance he had a chance in the friday night game like it's just another guy that kind of bring up here that shoots it towards the net and kind of skates around man's a power forward like he can go bully the four check take the puck from people, be in the blue paint. Steve's isn't. That should be good against.

The only thing is, is, like, you know, for me, it's, you know, if we're talking about a guy like Joey Anderson, it's, are you focused on him contributing offensively? Is that where the attention is for these guys? Are they all feeling a press to put the puck in the net? I don't think so. Then where is the look? Is it a physical, dominant look?

What's the identity? What's the identity of you if you're not feeling the heat to score? There's too many guys who... What would you say? ...aren't expected to do anything but not be bad. You know? And they've proven they have a lot of guys who can look not bad. But who can do something?

Who can move the needle in any capacity? Yeah. You know, Holmberg, sure. McMahon, I still think, is my favorite of that group outside holmberg but yeah see this is again i'm reading an article the other day on joey anderson and i think they i read that he had a 68 expected goals i see joey anderson and i don't expect to see goals okay why are we talking about his expected goals? His line is played in the right end.

Who is expecting him to score goals? You know what I mean? Just means more shots and chances. Do you understand what I'm saying here? I do. I do. Yes. No one's expecting him to contribute.

I think the idea is that when he's been on the ice, the play has gone the right way. However, you know, what's the point of those minutes if it's not you know okay they're not going to score they don't forecheck that's great that they haven't been caved in there's also the other thing kipper who they playing against yeah who's joey anderson they've played who columbus twice and someone else he's playing columbus and okay columbus and boston you're getting their fourth line it's gone well through three or four games against the lower lines okay it doesn't doesn't teach me anything in the game of useful or useless stats yeah take any useless on that

you know uh brendan tanev is a guy that i kind of say that is your model fourth line type of player. And now all of a sudden you look at Vegas and they've had a pretty good week. And another guy in that lineup is William Carrier. To me is another like perfect fourth line guy this guy is a mule yeah and can move on the ice and then i i looked the other day and he's got like 14 goals yeah he's a player 14 yeah right that'd be nice yeah and i'm real contribution in the bottom six just one one of that type of guy. Yeah. Where they just appear. Totally agree. Heavy.

Just heavy. And a pain in the ass heavy, right? Where you're just like, oh, not him again. I was more intrigued by the 14 goals part. You know, just someone in the bottom six, you go, oh. And I know we're supposed to, I'm supposed to go, Engvall is on. Yeah.

Well, Engvall is supposed to be more than that. And there are windows when he's looked good. Yeah, he looks great against Columbus on a Friday or, you know, whatever, for sure. One more, Sheldon Keefe. I think he was rather short on making it apparent to everybody that he doesn't play anymore. You guys talk to the players. I'm sure that you've asked them the same questions. It's, I can't do the work for them.

Okay, it's clear now. He cannot step on the ice and actually do it for them. Right. I mean, that's as frustrated as we've heard, Keith. And I think you do reach a point as a coach where you go, you know, okay, like how many I've, we've had these same discussions many times. At some point it's on the players.

The one thing I will say that's consistent with all of our Kippers Clippers this morning or this afternoon, sorry. He's smart enough to know that less is better. If you can't say something nice. Mouth shut. Sammy, not much in the Kippers Clippers today out of Sheldon Keefe, and good on him because as JB just alluded to,

I can't get in too much trouble if i keep it short any new samson over wool thoughts that was the maddest i've seen him in a press conference i think this yeah just he was visibly steaming he gets really hot in a way that you can't like get through to him and i'm surprised we haven't seen it in the media more. I guess they've mostly been very good. Is that a good thing? No. For the coach?

No. No. That's not. No, it is not. Yeah. But again, just to touch on the fourth line, I like Sean Corrales. Yeah, me too.

I like him in Boston. Yeah. And he was a difference maker Saturdayurday night yeah he's on that bottom six and being matched up against tavaris on on occasion i think they'll get corrali out of there couldn't you no i don't think so really i don't think so doesn't seem like a guy who's a ton of value is he really oh that's way more than I would have guessed. Two-five till 2025. So for two more years after this one.

Oh, I liked him, but jeez, I had no idea he was on that contract. I'd take him. I think he's a big nut. A performer, too. He could shut down guys. Take him more than Engvall? Get one or the other? Oh, I'd take...

Karali's a proven playoff guy. Yeah. With the Boston Bruins. Yeah, he scored in game seven against the Maplers once upon a time. He was Nick Paul before Nick Paul was Nick Paul last year. He was. Okay. I can see that.

So I couldn't help but watch that game without watching for potential pieces that the Leafs could go after. Oh, my gosh. Any new thought? Gavrikov's in the game. First line or second line well but that's it where do you want to start they saturday night they're leaking oil everywhere the leafs were yes yeah but i mean i was watching for gavrikov um okay you know like a sense for i was watching

boone jenner like watching for these guys who could potentially become available that could help the leafs sammy and i did leafs talk on friday night he didn't love gavrikov it wasn't a part of all the great highlights but i can see how gavrikov could be a big help for the leafs like he's big skates he's he's david savard took a penalty being a meatball that's nice to see not that we encourage penalties but there's not someone coach the leaf does yeah light willy so grease it up out there a little bit the only question is is again like anything else what's the price and how far you want to go and uh rentals versus someone substantial that you could fit into your cap in the next year or two. Anything changed for you in terms of what you want to see the Leafs do

over the weekend? Oh, gosh. Yeah, I was a little perturbed like everybody else for Saturday night. There's so many things that bothered me about Saturday night. And I'll include Sheldon Keefe as well in this. You know what I didn't like is that it's a back-to-back night, but you're at home. And you've got to ask Mitch Marner to play almost 29 minutes.

Did you see Marner's ice time? 28, I don't know what it finished. 28.50 or something. The second most to reforward all year. No. Ridiculous. Ridiculous. Ridiculous.

And it's even more ridiculous, again, that you're at home against one of the worst teams in the league. And you need Mitch Marner on the ice for five minutes in the last, in the third period. He played almost all the five minutes. He barely came off the ice. Like, come on. There's no excuse to need to put that on Mitch Marner

when you've got 28 games to go and you're supposed to be gearing up for the playoffs. Yeah. I did not like that. I didn't like that. Isn't that more of a comment on the personnel, though, Kip? Like, what are their options? You're trying to win the game.

You know what the option is? What? Like, I'd rather lose learning a lesson than trying to win like that yeah you know I think it's probably hard on the bench in a one goal game to zoom out

to that point but I think you're right like I think you'd much rather go with you know the guys who have been failing and say see here's why we failed rather than go we went to the one guy who was performing and we didn't get it done. Yeah, and I know there's TV timeouts

and there's, you know, different scenarios. 29 minutes is way too much. He's going to get caught again. Relying on these guys too much. You can't blame them in the playoffs. They don't have anyone else. That's the plan is these guys too much. You can't blame them in the playoffs. They don't have anyone else. That's the plan is these guys are the plan, which is a dubious thing. You're not going to leave anything in the gas tank for a guy like that going in.

If I'm Shelton, I just need to get through the round. And if I don't have anyone else to put on the ice, that's, you know, what do you want me to do here? I don't blame him for having him out there for the last four minutes. It's like, well, you know, do I have a better chance with the Marley crew in the bottom six to get a goal? Like he's the best player on the team by far in the lineup.

You got to play him. Timo time. Bring us Timo Meier. I've played with experienced coaches where they would be like, they would know that that's where it's headed and trending. And they would almost not put out their best players to try to find a way to save you. So he can turn around to his general managers and see,

say, see, see what you got me. Yeah. But that's a different relationship between Sheldon and Kyle. Right. But I still think that would happen to some extent. You know,

I could see them being frustrated with a lack of options and saying yeah you know i mean but steve's out or is it anderson or is it holmberg or is it astid race or is it when i saw almost 30 minutes for mitch marner on a saturday night at home against the worst team in the league yeah i'm like that's just not right those optics yeah that ain't. Now, where would you look over your shoulder? There's Tampa Bay coming. What kind of feeling would you go into a first round against Tampa if you've lost home ice advantage here?

Where is the optics and the feel and the energy if, in fact, this thing slips? I think it'll work for the Leafs you do i do i just feel like so it's you don't have that much of an emphasis on it then to my point then even more don't go and play mitch 29 minutes i just feel like because of the trend we're talking about how they go out against dogs and play like dogs who you have to present them with a challenge to get the most out of them and say it's tamp Tampa Bay and they have home ice like we need your very best. Like it might be the thing that gets every little lick of attention. I'm not saying you want to not have home ice.

Of course, you want to have home ice, but it's just so hard to get their attention unless it's a big game. It's a concern. Interesting. No Matthews. You you know do we think differently you should be able to win without matthews against columbus at home right yes is he coming back soon do we have any i think he skated uh skated so i what do we have chicago wednesday night yeah and then let him sit that one out is it wednesday saturday Wednesday night? Yeah. Is it Wednesday, Saturday? Wednesday, Saturday, Sunday. Yeah.

See you Saturday night. If it's not against Chicago, you give him another full week. He should be fine by then. They projected three weeks. I don't think there's anything that has changed otherwise. No. But, see, the one thing that, you know, when I listen to you say that, yeah, maybe it'll be enough to change up things.

Yeah. But two trends that really bother me is continuing to lose points to bad teams. Mm-hmm. And the last few years, the trend on the power play in the back half going south. Real south. And are you just a hoper now

that there's a switch that you hit and everything will be fine? Or do you buy into, I don't like this trend. I don't like where it's heading now. Just don't know what to do about it outside of getting new personnel. You know, I had an article in Power Play last week, which we talked about in the show, you know,

that it has consistently they've started years good and kind of got worse as the year has gone on. Do you feel like they need a quarterback? Like I know it seems like Chikrin is out now, likely not to be a Toronto Maple Leaf. Yeah, I just think until the deal's done, everybody should be available and everybody should be in the mix of conversations

until you're told otherwise. Leafs are now top five in the league in power play. In power play percentage. Yeah, they're fourth in the league now. It's crazy. Do you like their power play? No. No.

That's the best worst power play. It is. Shocking. I think people hear us and go, what are the standards or whatever? But it's like when you have four guys who make whatever money they make, the expectations are very high that they be as good as they are. But it just seems to happen because they have talent and they do a game-breaking thing.

They make a play. It's not like there's some routine structure where they're like, oh, they're lethal because they just have good players on the ice. It doesn't seem like a structure thing when they have success. Yeah. Just the one opportunity Saturday night, and Morgan Riley ended up with a power play goal, which sure felt good for him. Did you see that stat

I put in the lineup there? First power play goal from a defenseman. It was the first time in 69 games that that had happened for the Leafs. First power play goal from a D-man in 69 games. For a top 5 percentage. Not nice. Not nice. No. For a top 5 percentage. Yeah.

That's crazy. That's a crazy number. It's crazy, too, is if you think about the Leafs power play forwards, those four guys, who's a great power play scorer? Like, who's scoring? They're top five. Like, Matthews. Matthews, Willie. They're all good.

Yeah, they're all good. I don't know. It's not like they have Ovechkin or I don't know. McDavid who just lights it up. Right. McDavid, Dreisaitl doing the thing. I don't know. Thoughts on Wallchkin or i don't know it's david who just right mcdavid dry saddle doing the thing i don't know uh thoughts on wall saturday night i don't have any no like i watched him i was like he wasn't terrible he's fine would like him to cover

the one up that gets loose that was the uh where he couldn't corral it right yeah he had a stick in his glove at one point there but like i don't know i didn't really fault him for any of the goals i didn't come away with it with a take i was the one thing i did notice is he seems very technically sound like he's very good position movements are clean sharp like he looked like a goalie to me woolly the goalie nice you look good but i don't know what am i i thought samson off was good on friday even though they didn't have a ton of chances. I thought he made some good saves. Nice shutout. I thought he was good Friday night.

So that's important. Trending for sure for him now. Would you even consider if Matt Murray was healthy today to play possibly against Chicago this week, that there would be enough time for him to get you, Sammy, to believe that he could be a difference maker in the playoffs? No. Or there's just, no matter what he does, back-to-back wins,

a nice little stretch. Oh, there's enough time. Is there enough time? There's enough time, but he's got to get hot. I think when he was playing really well, you never thought it was going to end. And then when it did end, my faith was completely pulled out. You were like, how did it ever happen in was completely pulled out i don't know if i

can i don't know if i can drum this faith back up in murray yeah it's gonna take a lot what's the challenge for murray now is i don't know that any teams like were he a ufa this year i don't know that any team would invest in him because of his injury history he just is not available enough and so maybe in the playoffs he's healthy for the perfect time and he could be good when he's healthy but it doesn't feel comfortable knowing that you know getting in out of his car every day could be the the next thing that costs him a week in the last three weeks i've seen enough examples of a high ankle sprain where i said, Patrick Mahomes, done. I know. Like, how is he hobbling back into a... I got some thoughts here, boys.

How can he do it? He's milking it. You think he milked it? As a diehard Tiger Woods fan, I know when a man is milking it. It's like, oh, he hits a bad shot, and all of a sudden his back's all tight. You know?

I also saw someone say, I want once in my life to be on whatever amount of drugs Mahomes is right now. He ran perfectly and then he gets up and he's like, oh, limp, limp. His run was incredible. Yeah, and then he limps after. We just saw you run perfectly. You don't need to limp.

He's one of the best ever. I'm here for that take. He was milking it hard. There's a lot of times we give athletes so much benefit of the doubt because they're incredible athletes. But he's also a little bit. Can we hope that Matt Murray's milking something with his ankle? I don't know. I don't know.

I got to think what I presume is a high ankle sprain for a goalie is going to be really hard to overcome the rest of the season. Well, then they may need another goalie here, even though Dubas said they didn't. You know what you need is you need him to come back soon enough so he can get hurt again and you can know you need a goalie. That's what you need to happen. My Corpus Allo idea wasn't the worst idea.

He looked pretty good on friday night what we saw out of elvis rizlikan's saturday night was reminiscent of leafs beaten out yes he's good by columbus really good in the bubble yeah he was really good really good and he's had an awful year like they flashed his numbers up and i was like oh my god i know i had the children oh my god yeah yeah but he was he was lights out he had a few uh 10 bellers yeah for sure saturday night okay let's take a quick break anthony stewart hockey analyst with sportsnet former nhl he's gonna he's gonna talk leafs he's gonna let us know what uh bunting needs to do to maybe win back uh some of some of the officials here in the last 28 games. And in the back hour, guys, come on, Sammy.

Should have teed this up right from the get-go. Bruce Boudreau. Oh, yeah. Gabby in the house. And he's back in the media. So do you think there's time between now and the commercial break we can have have him do a cameo for us they're so good what's he charging i don't know can he do one for real kipper and you know what we won't pay for it we'll just get him to do it on our show after the break

brilliant sounds like a good idea okay gabby anthony stewart we got a ton still to go on real Kipper and Bourne. Back after these words. Smart takes on the biggest stories in sports. The Fan Drive Time with Ben Ennis. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's bring in Anthony Stewart, hockey analyst with Sportsnet, former NHL-er. And I got to come to you, Stewie, right off the bat

because my crew here believe that Patrick Mahomes last night milked the whole high ankle sprain thing and it was conveniently used to gain sympathy and create this mystique that, you know, he won the Super Bowl with one leg. Where are you? Because in all honesty, it never crossed my mind, but now these guys have me thinking about that. Do you think he milked it?

Well, I'm not sure if you've been following social media. I think it was all part of the script, right? So we're talking about being scripted, and that is a perfect script. But, you know, I think for Mahomes, it just adds to the mystique of what type of quarterback he is. One of the greatest of all times. They're pegging him that already. So hurt, unhurt.

You know, they got a lot of good drugs especially at the uh level so even if he had a fake leg i think he'd still be good to go did you make goat curry for the super bowl curry goat it's curry goat curry goat okay no we had actually stew peas so my dad's brother's visiting from england so he made it uh he made stew peas which is uh just as exotic looking but just as equally as good as well good to know um so the less exciting part of the weekend was when the toronto maple east played the columbus blue jackets um on saturday night not their best showing stewie do you have a greater takeaway from that game than you, just a bad night by a good team? Well, I'll start this off by saying this is not a paid advertisement. I'm not an agent provocateur of the, you know, Toronto Maple Leafs.

But remember, this is the second game back from All-Star break. I went down there. I took some of our mentorship kids down there from the weekend. And I've still got that All-Star weekend hangover. So, you know, you're coming back from taking a couple days off. It takes time for the body to recover. And, you know, first game you play guilty, it's the second game where it really hits you.

So I haven't really heard that take where saying, like, hey, it's the first couple days back. You know, you saw their first practice. Guys are hunched over. Guys are breathing heavy. It takes some time. So, yes, you want to be able to get those points, those valuable points that could come in handy or not,

versus some of the bottom teams. But, you know, if we were talking 10 days from now, yeah, you'll want to be able to get those points, those valuable points that could come in handy or not versus some of the bottom teams. But, you know, if we were talking 10 days from now, yeah, I'd be very, very concerned. But I think this is probably just an outlier of, you know, the great season that they've been having. But, yeah, you don't want to be giving up a 2-0 lead. They came out really, really strong. You'll want to help out a young goalie who potentially could be in the net

for you, you know, down the line. A lot of things went wrong. But, you know, I was looking for us to point the finger at something, and I'm like, oh, maybe they've got to block more shots. Morgan Rielly had five, six blocked shots. They had a couple breakdowns, a couple brain farts, brain cramps, as they would say, but for me, that's a given coming back the first couple games after All-Star break.

So, Stewie, lack of compete or lack of discipline, we heard from Sheldon Keefe on a few of our clips to start our show. Not as big of a concern for you as it was for him? Well, I don't think it was that big of a concern. I heard his comments, but he was probably just putting them on notice, saying, guys, we got this last final stretch here, last 20 games, where it's so much harder to get power plays and score goals. You're not going to be scoring four or five goals a game.

You're going to have to find a way to get points because i think a lot of fans don't realize here um you know there's a win and there's an easy win right when you have to have this emotional roller coaster of battling back and every single game's going down the last minute that weighs on you really really mentally and emotionally and that can really affect your game so you know for me that should have been an easy win, but I understand that. But I think for him, he's just like saying, guys, we've already set the bar. We've set the barometer of how we have to play for the rest of the season. You know, we can't have – we're not going to accept this, you know,

this step back. So, again, I think the real test is how their next game is going to be. Are they going to step up and really take it to the next level? That first five, ten minutes will be indicative of they're really, they're really ready to take the next step, as they would say. So, Stu, you tend to be pretty bullish on the Leafs like myself. I mean, this is a good team that's had success for a lot of years, just hasn't come in the playoffs yet. How

much different do you think they need to look personnel-wise than they currently look? How much do they need to add in the next three weeks? Well, I'm not an analytics guy but I actually I I listened to somebody tweet about it the other day and I guess in the last five years five on five they're 21st in the NHL in scoring so I think they need to now find a way you know to have a guy score five on five and you're looking at a player like Bunting who's taking a

lot of the criticism as of late you know he's he's got 30 even strike points. And, you know, I don't think any of the other top four have 40 points. So I think for them, they need to get a guy that you know is going to step up and put up points five on five. So who is that? Is that going to be Patrick Kane? I know he's struggling. I know they probably don't have the assets to get them, but, you know, maybe a top six guy. But I honestly think Nyes is going to come in, step in and be a guy. He's, you know, he's trending in the right direction. I know it's a lot of pressure to put him in to a top six role right away. Yan croaks, filling in admirably as well too,

but you need to go up and down and look at the analytics, Justin, that's your job. Not really see who is that guy? Rain, rain, sleet, or snow or shine.

He's stepping up and he's going to score that big goal. Five on five. Who is that guy? I don't know, or Shine, he's stepping up, and he's going to score that big goal 5-on-5. Who is that guy? It's not me. I don't know, bud. We're joined by Anthony Stewart, hockey analyst with Sportsnet. So two physical altercations, if we call it anything, Saturday night, and you had mentioned bunting.

He was in one of them. Willie Nylander in the other one. Both didn't fare well when it came to drawing penalties for the Toronto Maple Leafs. But where are you on that? And particularly in bunting at times, maybe crossing the line. And your thoughts on Willie Nylander

showing a side of him that we really haven't seen before, Stewie. Well, I think with bunting, you know, he walks the line, and sometimes he does cross it. But, you know, we go back to a former Maple Leaf that crossed the line habitually big, and Nazem Kadri, and you look at this roster, and you're saying, who are they missing right now? It's Kadri.

So you have to take the good and the bad with Bunting. You know, he drags his team into the fight, and a team that sort of gets into the lull sometimes, you really need a guy like him to say, keep the other team accountable. And it's not just the punches after the whistle. It's the, you know, yapping at the bench. I used to be like, man, like, let me just get through this game.

And I got a guy yelling at me at the bench for no reason. And, you know, with Nylander, you know, he's got to start sticking up for himself. I love things like that too, because the intimidation factor is a big, big point of the game. I used to go against guys, and if I knew I could get an edge on him physically, I'd give him a little face wash, I'd give him a little eye gouge, a little punch in the stomach. But it went both ways.

If there was another team that had a guy that I was really, really worried about physically really doing some damage to me, I know we're talking about 10, 15 years ago and I sound like a dinosaur, I would settle down. So the physicality and the intimidation is a big part of the game, and it is going to be like that, especially in playoffs. So when you have Nylander sticking up for himself, you have that defenseman who went against him the other night saying, you know what, I'm going to take an easier target.

Let me go after somebody else. So it's good to see. I like it, and I saw Keith's comments. That was perfect. He nailed it right on the head there. You want to see him stick up for himself because, again, he's a big, big player, and you don't have to worry about him taking a step back because he's worried what's going to happen to him physically out there yeah

you know we've been talking here about the power play a little bit and like should we be concerned about it as you head into playoffs it's kind of let them down the postseason in the past you know there's there are top five power play in the nhl though stewie so do you think it's overblown that these concerns about the power play? Because it has dried up pretty consistently in the playoffs. Yeah, for me, it's, you know, this team is very, very talented. And I think sometimes they try to overcreate, you know, a lot of those seam passes. And you're looking at some of the other power plays that have, you know, they have the big shot. They have the big one tee.

They're really, really good on puck retrievals. But sometimes they just go back to the basics and shoot for sticks and redirect second and third opportunities where this team can now try to set up the bumper play or go cross-seam, back double-double cross-seam, globetrotter it up. So that's my concern, but it seems to be working for them right now. So I see as you get to game 60 and 80, you're going to see maybe the second unit,

instead of getting garbage time, maybe getting 45 seconds to see what they can do. Because I remember a couple weeks ago before the break, they were scoring some big goals as well. So I think I want to see a little bit more variety with the personnel. I don't want to see the five forwards. I know you're advocating for that, Justin, and maybe Kipper as well. I don't know.

I've got to check the tape on that. But get back to the basics. Get back to the basics because in playoffs, it's so hard to get that extra inch and keep it fancy. You've got to take what you get out there. Justin, earlier in the show, Stewie told me that with 28 games to go, there's still some time for Matt Murray to come back and reestablish something.

Before that can happen, he's got to solidify the backup role right now because it's Samsonov's net. But in your opinion, who should the Leafs be focusing on to groom, to at least put themselves in a position to back up? Is it Wall or is it Matt Murray? Well, I hope Sam's on break here because I heard him going crazy about Murray not saying there's enough time. But again, this is the problem that I think that the Maple Leafs wanted to have where is it going

to be Samson Auburn Murray yes you want to see a little bit more consistency you want to see Murray stay healthy but I still think there is some time if he comes back in the last you know say it's 17 18 games and he gets in a groove where he plays three four in a row I think that's all it would take for him to really you know get that number one position and think earlier on in the season, he was poised to be that guy. But I think the Maple Leafs, in bringing both guys in, they wanted to have that problem where they're pushing each other every single night. One guy might get back-to-back, and then the other guy sits and then comes in and steps up. I think that internal competition is really going to push the group.

But as you get to the last 10 games, I think you want to know who the guy is going to be. So there's still a lot of time before we get there but again i haven't lost face to murray you know he went from besna contender to waiver get him on waivers send them down bring up you know errors so again it's a topsy-turvy in the coverage of it but again i think the maple leaves they know that they're going to have a good problem to have in deciding what's going to be murray or samsonov stew, how do you judge a coach? You know, like it's tough to judge Sheldon Keefe. He's had so much success in the regular season.

They haven't won that game seven yet. When you evaluate an NHL coach and the job they're doing, what are you looking for? Well, I think just managing the group, right? And, you know, you have to manage different expectations, different egos different uh tax brackets i think he's done an admirable job of that when had when's the last time you heard a hot mic moment um you know from this group and i think it was maybe october november uh so to be

able to do this in this market uh the one thing i can say about sheldon keith you know i've talked about it before you know he's in the community you know we had some kids yesterday they were signing autographs taking the subway with the team i'm seeing him at the arena he's really embracing the role of ambassador being the toronto maple leaf coach so i give him full marks um i would not want to be coaching i'm coaching a top flight uh u10 player i would not want to be coaching a 15 million dollar player and having to manage those type of players every single day so but ultimately you're going to be judged in the playoffs and you have to have success that's where in the winning business it in the playoffs, and you have to have success.

That's where in the winning business is the success business, and I think ultimately that's how he's going to be judged. But his time that he's been the head coach here, again, I have to give him an A because, again, all those other factors and being in this market of Toronto, he's doing a great job. Stewie, under three weeks to go for the trade deadline, limited assets that Kyle Dubas can play with here. Where do you focus first?

This team is built around the big four and them stepping up. So I know we're talking about adding a second-line winger. But, again, it's going to come down to Matthews, Marner, Tavares, and Nylander step up and have A-plus series. So I think you've got to now redirect the focus to defense. I'd like to see a little bit more depth, maybe a little bit of power play asset back there. I know Timmons has been playing well.

He signed his two-year extension as well. But again, do you go out, do you get an echo? Can you get a dumba? The assets are very few and far between. So again, a puck moving D, a guy that can step up. So, you know, Kipper, I always use your line. I've stolen it and I've used it for TV. You need eight, nine, ten defensemen to go on a run. think they need to add one possibly two more yeah totally agree pal all right last

one for me stewie's just i want to get your thoughts on the the leafs bottom six and what they should want from them in the past the fourth line's role hasn't been clear with spezza and some guys like that like what should they be hoping to get out of their fourth line now well i always go back to my day when i got called up to the Florida Panthers and I went back down to the Rochester Americans where we shared an affiliate with the Rochester Americans. And Clark MacArthur used to always read my stat sheet. I'd come back with zero, zero, zero, zero gold, zero sys, zero, and zero PIMS.

And he'd call me the ghost of Christmas past. And he'd be like, ooho, excuse me, whoo. So you need something. You need something. You need some hits. You need some hits. You need some truculence. You need to be blocking shots.

So just a little bit more depth. I go back to my international ice hockey game where you have the chubby guy, the skinny guy, and the medium guy. You need a little bit more variety back there. We're just team bottom six. It's the same guy. It's the same guy. And I have a little bit of a and again

leaf nation this is your job to know you know i couldn't tell the difference between kasha and camp and i know camp is playing really really good hockey last year but to me they were the same player uh so again just a little bit more variety a little bit more size a little bit more truculence and again i don't think this is the last you've seen about wayne simmons i think he can step up and and uh you know be inserted into a series and, you know, change the tone of it physically. So just a little bit more variety. But, again, don't be like me. Don't be the ghost of Christmas past.

Do something out there, please. Very well said, Stewie. Always appreciate you coming on our show. Thanks for doing this. All right. Thanks a lot. Go Leafs go. Thanks, buddy.

Anthony Stewart. Fun. Oh, yeah. Now. Okay. fun oh yeah now okay so he kind of talked everybody off uh the ledge that uh apparently much like sammy it's an all-star hangover that caused the loss saturday night and there's not as many red flags as maybe others would think you buy it well it's tough to know what to ascribe to what but not entirely only because we showed the record before that they've played 13 games against the bottom eight

teams in the league and won five you know so were it not a part of a larger trend i would definitely be like yeah yeah i can see it it is a little harder when it's something that they have done here for a bit now the other thing i want to to, and we're going to go to break, and we got Bruce Boudreaux coming up after the break, so you're not going to want to miss that. The one thing that kind of stood out for me a little bit Saturday night too is a drop-off on the blue line. And I don't know, Sammy, was it a month ago?

We were maybe even short of three weeks ago. We were talking about Lilligren and sandin stepping up now and if we envision seeing them as a top power uh i'm sorry a top uh playoff pair and matching up there's times when i saw sandin bumped off a pucks a little too easy saturday night i did not like justin hall's game at all saturday night yeah where are we now on that blue line where we are now i feel like everyone has if you if you ask most leaf fans to draw up how they see game one of the stanley cup playoffs on the back end i think most people have Sandin at seven you know like that there's going to be someone else brought in there's going to be a heavier

presence on the bottom pair we seems to be consensus that Lilligren has passed him I think in terms of team people's comfort level and offensive upside so yeah because of the getting bumped off pucks and Justin Hall is another guy he's gonna be in i mean hall is gonna be in they it's it's but you want to be your third pair guy ideally it's crazy to assume that if you think you're if the leafs are going to get help it won't cost them somebody in the roster so but contending teams don't do that right they don't take away from the roster trying to win a cup unless you just don't think those guys can help you win a cup which is in itself an option you can make that statement and and how much how deep in the health department do you want to go when you guys brought in a bunch

of people with the rangers before your cop how many people went out uh quite a few yeah yeah and uh the the biggest one and a guy that actually went on to have great success in chicago was tony amante tony amante was a big name uh a usa hockey usa guy uh all-star legitimate 30 goal score that was the cost for matto and noonan who ended up being historically as good as any bottom six pickup yeah they were phenomenal was a monta with two second line at the time matto with two double overtime goals yeah uh that uh certainly are a big part of history now where was amante in your lineup prior to that uh prominent four uh yeah three four five yeah on on the depth chart three four five first in the league you traded your three four five great uh messier graves yeah you know larmer but yeah uh amante would have been a guy that could easily find himself playing with Messier or second line.

How did you guys feel about losing a guy of that prominence for bottom? It was quite shocking, to be honest with you, that they would give up. But that's what historically has happened this time of year, that you have to give up something to get something good. Yeah. Could be a bit of a wake-up call too, where it kind of shakes the room up and go, oh, crap. The question is.

It's because it's never really happened. Is that where the Leafs are at now? Does Kyle need just to shake the tree right now? Well, they're going to. You know, like, I don't think we're sitting here on March 4th and we're going, well, same guys. You know, like, I do think fundamentally the team will be the same. But, like, there's going to be a couple of new bodies,

which I think shakes it up a little bit, unless it's purely bottom of the lineup guys. The problem is is you know the good news back then is you could just make trades and yeah add and there's no restrictions other than you saying yes or no to what you're you like boy that sounds great and now as we well documented last week you are up against this flat cap you're up against no trades no moves and it i don't know how many good players are really out there i don't know right yeah how many can be difference makers well and i don't know how much of a difference i feel like the biggest

names can make so there's this divide between Ryan O'Reilly, Patrick Kane, Jonathan Taves. I don't know what they are, 30-some point guys right now in 40-some games. How much are they going to move the needle versus these bottom-end guys that maybe you can find someone who really contributes meaningfully but is a smaller name. You know, there's tough decisions.

The other thing, thing too is how healthy are certain guys how healthy is pat kane right now how healthy is jonathan tapes they've got issues there yeah oh i'm glad we get to see them on wednesday night this is funny we're getting to see all the tour here of leafs got burned with nick felino he was not healthy yeah comes in you should be able to return him at the store hurts his back back remember he yeah he hurt his back right away yeah that that's a that's a tough pill when you give it up he's different than that somehow a first and a fourth he hurt his back on the most innocent play remember he was like skating towards the net in Montreal and kind of just stopped up and just like his whole back gave out basically. That was great.

Yeah. That was before the playoffs happened. Oh, and that was a big part of the documentary too, didn't they? Don't you remember seeing Nick Foligno kind of crawl on the floor when he came in off the ice in Montreal? Yeah. And then they followed him into the trainer's room. He could, and he's apologizing too.

Yeah. Like how bad did he feel like he's letting people down? That was. It's going to be an awful feeling. Awful feeling. Knowing that your, you know, your hometown team, the one that traded for you. Yeah. I mean, look, he had the little bucket from his dad.

Everyone wanted to love him comes in here try with a big expectations and he's got a oof and even like he did everything you could have hoped like he tried you fought perry after perry need tavara's by accident or not but like he was one of the guys who would be willing to do that sort of thing and it just didn't work out don't want to trade for someone else who has great intentions you know but without the physical ability to do it wow i i think he somewhat feels justified with his success in boston now that he's just he's still a great player he's not a front leg player like he was in columbus a guy that obviously the leafs kind of traded for still they were hoping they were getting the front line yeah nick felino but now they're getting the depth nick

felino in boston yeah i mean if they could find the depth nick felino somewhere else i bet they'd take it right now i'm sure how many how many are there? And how many want to give up? Yeah. I just feel like it'll be a guy that no one has talked about. Yeah, like Labushkin was. Labushkin was the ultimate. Sorry, who's that? When that happened, I was like, to Google. Yeah. Well, that's an established strength of Kyle Dubas's, is it not?

With scouting and finding guys? Yes. Yeah, for sure. Bunting, Labushkinkin i don't know if you have to go back to bill armstrong another one out of arizona it's gonna go to arizona but that seems to pull out names that we don't necessarily associate with and and find some success there so that's what uh lee fans are hoping for no question okay we're gonna take a break and then uh as we promised after the break bruce budro formerer, now working back in the media.

He's back on the dark side. Can't wait to talk to him. Bruce Boudreau, after the break, you're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born. Get smarter when you listen to Hockey Talk, the Hockey PDO cast with Dimitri Filipovich. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

As promised before the break, Bruce Boudreau set to join us. Former head coach of the Vancouver Canucks, now pulled right back to the dark side. The media doing work with the NHL Network. Let's welcome in Gabby. Hey, Bruce, thanks for doing this, man. How are you?

No problem, Nick. I'm okay. How are you? Yeah, like right back into it, eh? It's like you never left. They won't even give you some time off. It's not a question of anybody giving me time off. It's like wife saying, get the hell out of the house.

You're killing me right now. I was bored, and I'm not good at sitting around, and I knew that option was going to be there. So it gets you talking hockey all the time so it's always fun that's great bruce will we appreciate you joining us today um have appreciated your candor and insight over the years uh and i guess i'll just start with sort of a a generalized look back at how how do you look back at your time with vancouver it was a i don't want to say a weird time you would know better than I but how do you

look back at your time with the Canucks you know this is going to be really crazy answers but I mean I look back at every time I'm in the NHL is a fabulous time and getting a chance to work in a Canadian market was something that I'd always wanted to do, and it was a great experience. I mean, there was a lot of highs and lows. You know, the first year there, it was nothing but highs. This year, there wasn't a lot of highs, but, I mean, it was a great experience. I'll tell you that. And there's passionate fans in Canada. I coached in the States, three different teams and three different kinds of markets. But I mean,

I can't imagine what the home city would be like, but I mean, Vancouver was crazy and everybody knows who you are. They, the hockey is the biggest thing going down there. And when you're good, they know you're good. When they're bad, they let you know you're bad. So it was a great experience, but I wouldn't change it for anything. You know, Gabby, you mentioned passionate fans, and it's passionate fans now with an opinion, and it's passionate fans who can write or voice their opinions.

And today, I think in the Toronto Star damian cox wrote an article how you should replace sheldon keith today and it used and it used to be that you'd as a coach you deal with a few beat reporters and at the end of the day that would be it um but you know in the short order that you've been coaching in the last little while, the growth of a Twitter, an Instagram, how did that feel with so many watching your every move and having the ability to write about it or report about it? You know what? I can answer it like this. I remember driving through Toronto a few years ago

and some fan phoned into one of the shows and said, you know, there was a shift in the second period where he didn't go to the bench hard or something like that. And I went, man, oh, man, they scrutinized every little thing here. Like, I mean, I couldn't believe how, like, I mean, they would never have done that in Anaheim. You'd never be on a radio show talking hockey or even at the beginning in Washington.

But, I mean, I was just astounded at how every fan knows so much about the game and watches every portion of the game here. I mean, thank God I'm not on Twitter or any social media thing, because I would have lost my mind, I think, just on the criticism alone if you're on there. But, I mean, so I try to stay away from there, and I don't try to read. I don't read papers.

I watch the hockey games, but that'll be that'll be it because as a coach especially in van i mean it's too tough if you start uh reading and watching all the the news articles and everything else man i mean it can really play a number on you bruce who are some of the so i'll take it back actually throughout your career you've coached different types of people. Like Alex Ovechkin was a unique hockey player, and you have to coach him a little bit differently, I imagine, than you would, oh, if I was your player or someone like that.

Are there anyone like that on the Canucks who needed a different sort of, a different way to be coached because of their particular skill set or personality? Well, I can answer it like this. I mean, and I've done this ever since I started coaching. I think one of the things you have to do is be sort of a psychologist a little bit, but I think one of the coach's jobs, other than X's and O's, is to find out what makes everybody tick. And I used to call it find their Achilles heel.

And some guys it would be take a nice time away. Sometimes it would be embarrassing them on the video. Some guys needed a pat on the back and you need to talk to them, you know, like quietly. Like Mike Green, for example, if I came down and was screaming at Mike Green, his game would not get better. But if you took him aside and said, Mike, I need you tonight, man. Come on, you're my best player, and you've got to go.

That would have an effect on him. And I think that goes the same with every team. I mean, every team I've been on, there's all these kind of different personalities, and they're all different on what makes them tick. And, I meancouver was no different they had a lot of uh you know uh strong personalities and at the same time they had a lot of quiet guys and you've got to find out it's my job to find out what makes them work we're talking to bruce budro former nhl coach 617 career wins and currently on the NHL network. Gabby, Saturday night, a 4-3 loss to Columbus

for the Toronto Maple Leafs in regulation. We heard from Sheldon Keefe earlier in our show on a few of his sound bites, questioning the effort and the competitiveness of his players. As a head coach, how concerned would you be with those comments with under 30 games to go compared to, say, maybe uttering those words in November? You know, I don't really think it makes any difference.

I mean, some games you don't play well. I mean, whether it's game 78 or game 7. I mean, you know, I think Sheldon was right on. I mean, they're a better team than Columbus, and they didn't have one of their better games. But, I mean, I wouldn't worry about it, but that's a coach's job is sometimes to call them out. And you know yourself as a player, Kipper,

that, I mean, you didn't play your best for 82 straight games. And sometimes you get into a trend where you're not playing well and you need to be told that you're not playing well just to give your head a shake and check it out. I would not be surprised. And especially when you play the same team back-to-back, you might think, oh, we didn't play our best game on the first game. But, I mean, we got them now.

They're an easy team. We'll beat them. And you don't, you know, you call it a trap game or you call it whatever you want. But, I mean, it gets you. I would guarantee that the Leafs will play an awful lot better the next game because they would have gotten the message. I mean, they're not, you know, I mean, all teams nowadays and players are a little bit more sensitive than they were back in the 90s, 80s, and 70s. But, I mean, I think they're all smart enough to know that when they didn't play good, they might need a good kick in the butt.

And they got the good kick in the butt, and I expect them to be really good the next night. Okay, so the Leafs play Wednesday in Chicago. They just have one game this coming week until next Saturday. With you being in a position where you're questioning your club's effort or competitiveness, what would a week with one game on a Wednesday look for you? What would you focus on? Is it a hard skate on Monday or Tuesday without pucks? Is there a lot of short conversations, a ton of meetings?

How would you handle a week going into this? Well, I think the no pucks thing is that ship has sailed in today's game. I mean, you could make a hard practice. I mean, if they needed it. I don't know if they needed it or not. But sometimes it's a one-off he's said his piece and i mean he knows those players better than anybody and i mean i would i would expect them to react accordingly i mean uh he's done a great job with them and and they're in a lofty position and it's tough every night when you know you're playing

Tampa in the first round and you've known it for 40 games now. I mean, it's tough to get up every night. I don't think I would panic over one game, especially not the Leafs where I watch them a lot and they rebound very quickly. They don't let things um i don't know how many losses they've got this year but i mean it's not a it's not a ton and i think uh i think they'll be fine against it a chicago team that lately has been playing fairly well they're not they can't score a lot but i mean they really work hard so they'll have to work hard if they want to have success but i'm pretty sure they will bruce, you know, we're talking about motivating guys and, you know, whether it's a bag skate here

or, you know, finding out what makes guys tick. You know, the honest question that I have that I've kind of been beating around the bushes is just what was it like coaching JT Miller? Because on the outside right now, we hear a lot of, you know, oh, he's a problem or he's this great guy or we don't have any sense. What was your experience like? Well, you know what? I he's a problem or he's this great guy. We don't have any sense. What was your experience like?

Well, you know what? I knew that was the question you were getting at. That's why I tried to dodge it. You're savvy. No, but hey, listen, I really like JT. And I want passionate players on my team. And JT's a passionate player. And sometimes his passion would, you know,

get the better of him for short periods of time but he would bounce right back it would be okay it's done boom he's a really good guy he's a really light player in the dressing room he's a really good hockey player i mean that is i was ever coaching again and i could get him on my team i would want him in a heartbeat he's not a problem at all. He's just a passionate hockey player, and I would love to take a passionate hockey player that wants to win every night

over the guy that just is very laissez faire, or whatever that word is that I'm trying to say. I think you got it right. When he banged his stick on the crossbar to get your third string goalie out of the net,

that's passion, that's a guy misunderstood? Well, that was me. That was me. He was looking at me, and I was saying stay in until JT. JT didn't look at the goalie looking at me, and he's banging the stick on the net telling him to go with only 40 seconds to go. I mean, I think that was made mountain out of a molehill,

and I think it was really his second game. So he didn't know. It might have even been his first game. So he's looking at me. I'm sitting there, got my hand out. Hold on, wait till we start bringing the puck up the ice. And JT's going, go, go, go. JT's not looking at me.

He knows what should have been happening. So, I mean, that wasn't on him at all. That was totally on me. You're probably like, I can't even believe I'm still having this conversation. But anyway, we had to have it. The other thing that we obviously, I know we've asked you about the Leafs a little bit, but I do want to get your sense for the type of play. You're talking about passion and, you know guy miller will get on guys getting

each other's face we don't see that here in toronto you know what is your sense for how necessary that grit and passion physicality is in the playoffs like the leafs need to add someone at the deadline import a little bit of that or does it has to come from the inside or do you need it at all well i don't know what they need i don't know the personalities of the leaf players i mean uh they're just a great team to me and and you know like when you're a top five team in the nhl and the leafs are and you happen to play another top five team in the nhl it's really not fair that one of them loses but one of them loses in the first round. And, I mean, we keep getting mad at the Leafs, but, I mean, they played, you know, when you lose to Tampa, who's been in the cup finals three times,

other than the fact that fans really want the Leafs to win, it's a 50-50 proposition even before they start. And as far as with the Leafs go, I'll tell you what, they know an awful lot more than what they need than I do. I thought they've changed their game this year and they're so much better defensively. For most of the year, they've been a top 5 to 10 defensive team in the league. They don't play the run-and-gun style that maybe the last couple years

where let's just score six and let the other team see what they can do. I think they've changed their game a lot. And I think they play more like playoff hockey will help them. And, I mean, I think that's, you know, that's Sheldon being a good coach. I mean, understanding what it's going to take to win. Tampa understood what it would take to win. It was a couple of players. They went out and got them.

I think the Leafs have changed their style a little bit. They still are tremendously offensive, but I mean, at the same time, they're really a lot more responsible defensively, and I think that's going to really help them, and I think when it comes to the playoffs, it's going to be another seven-game series, and hopefully that they can

prevail this time. Another topic, Gabby is Michael Bunting. We had Anthony Stewart earlier on in the show and he made an excellent point that, you know, he's a guy that likes to drag people into the fight and he's done it on many occasions,

but there is the times when it's a little overdramatic with him drawing penalties or being engaged with the officials. I'm sure you've coached players like this in the past. What do you do? What do you say to a Michael Bunting to get a lot of those positive vibes back in your court? Well, I mean, yeah, we've all had players like that. I've had the Matt Cooks and Sean Averys and stuff that they go a little overboard. Sometimes I don't know if Michael does this or how much he does it

because when you're playing in Vancouver, as much as you're trying to watch the Leafs as much as I can, you don't get to see them when you're working. But I think it's just coach talking to player and player understanding what you have to do. And I think if you're getting through to them, and I think it's not hard to get through to any player. Like I said, you just push the right buttons on the player and he'll work it. Like Michael Bunting, if he gets overzealous, I guess is the word.

I mean, they might just put him on the third line a couple times rather than play in the top six. And I think that that usually does the trick but i mean i have no idea um what what they're trying what methods they're going to try to use or if they're even necessary to to use to to get them going i think he's a pretty fine hockey player myself bruce one last one for me i just want to you know i'm a former american league video coach i want to get a sense of how much you lean on a video coach, how kind of, you know, it's just the technology has changed so much

even from when I was doing it. How much is that a part of your daily routine? Are you best buddies with your video coach? Absolutely the best. We had Dylan Crawford and Greg Hood. We have two of them, and their office is adjacent to mine with a window between the two. And, I mean, we're talking all the time. And I told them their job is much more than just video and cutting up video and preparing what we want to watch.

But they find it as quick as they get it. And the video in nowadays is is so advanced i mean there's different systems every year popping up that you have to learn and i don't know it's it's hard to imagine um when there was even one video coach only and let alone none and that was a short you know maybe 15 10 15 years ago there was no video coaches you had to cut up all the stuff yourself and I mean so it's but they're invaluable they're totally part of the coaching team like now and when we had coaches meetings they were included in every meeting so I

mean and and they usually when they get to know the coach really well, they get to read them. They usually have the stuff that he wants before the coach even asks for it because they know what the coach wants, and then they put that in their folders. And, like, if I want all the neutral zone plays, and he would have it all there ready for me before I even asked for it. So, I mean, these are the kind of things that they do.

And, like I said, they're invaluable nowadays. And, I mean, we have six coaches on our staff now. And then the Sedin brothers as development coaches were there all the time. So, I mean, we'd have eight coaches having ideas, and I'd sit there and we'd go into some of the older buildings where there's only room for two coaches. They haven't expanded the coaches' rooms, and we'd go, man, this is antiquated because there's so many more coaches in every situation now

and every team. That's awesome. One more for me, Gabbyby before i let you go and that is that uh of course you were born and raised in in toronto so you know the the the scrutiny around uh nhl hockey in canada and yet you you coached in places like anaheim uh washington and minnesota but is there anything that could prepare you or anyone for the fishbowl of coaching in the National Hockey League in Canada, particularly in Vancouver? Well, coaching in Vancouver will prepare you for anywhere.

Was it everything you thought it would be? Was it less, more, or right where you thought? Well, you know what? It was probably a little more. And like I said before, like from the radio thing, is I would, for example, I would go around and normally you talk to players on the ice while they're warming up and everything else before practice.

And I'd get questions. I saw you talk to Bo Horvath for 30 seconds there. Were you talking about his leaving? Well, you know, I mean, they would just notice every little thing. You came to the bench early. You were on the ice five minutes early. Was that because you needed to talk to people? Like every little thing, I found out very early in my tenure there

that, I mean that they watch everything. It's not just one reporter with a hat that says press on it. There's a dozen people every time you go there, and they're looking for all the little things. You have to be prepared. It's a different mindset. It'd probably be like a media guy doing the Yankees, I'm thinking, from New York. And I loved it, quite frankly. I think, I mean, I'm such a hockey nut and love to talk hockey that, I mean,

I had no problem with them, whether they're right on or they were fishing or whatever they were doing. I mean, it was always interesting on all the pressers that we did before the games or after the games. Well, look what it's done for your cameo appearances. Prior to coaching in Vancouver, you were charging five bucks, right, for a message? And now what are you at, about $900?

I got off that i i got off that uh once we started losing well uh when's your birthday jb that's a december sammy you got a birthday coming up we can get one for free right now out of Gabby. No, that's okay. We'll cash in our discount later. Okay. Sounds great. All right. Bruce Boudreaux, thanks so much for your time, man.

I wish you the best of luck. Thanks so much, Bruce. Thank you. Appreciate it. Okay. Bye-bye. Bruce Boudreaux. What a guy.

As popular as you'll ever see. should be he should be he tells it like it is i mean you get frustrated sometimes you hear coaches give all the like well yeah you know giving it our best and you know they say nothing bruce went out there and said stuff you know it catches fire sometimes but he was a straight shooter gotta give him credit for that hey listen uh now still has a reputation as a guy that could come in and maybe clean up or mop up uh a team if it was that did come up recently in an article. I'm not leaning. I don't believe for one second. Has anyone written about that recently? I don't believe for one second that that's going to be a scenario.

And we mentioned earlier, Damien Cox writing an article for the Toronto Star today, suggesting that they, there's a coaching change and a guy like Bruce Boudreaux could come in. Hey, you don't soften it because he didn't. He said, fire Keefe, bring in Boudreaux could come in. You don't soften it because he didn't. He said, fire Keefe, bring in Boudreaux. Yeah. And we know historically it hasn't happened very often this late in the season,

but there has been on occasion. But there's just no way. If you didn't even contemplate it during a rough stretch at the beginning of the season, you're not there now. And it's still a top contending team the numbers the success in his regular season yeah no one's going there no and you can have the opinion that he's not the right coach you can have the opinion earlier in the year he needs to get fired there's 28 games left you know implement a new system and see if it works now you thought you were uncomfortable having the bottom six auditions at this point let alone a whole new thing you know it's i don't know

i do understand the teams have changed coaches later in the season i don't know about a top five team in the nhl doing it well and specifically this top five team right they've said sheldon this is it and sam and i were saying before and you too before the show it's if he wins in the first round he may keep his job if he loses he's fine yes and it's it's simple gambit as simple as that but we are also talking about a team that lost how many in a row in the first round? Seven, six. And doubled down and tripled down. They got no chips left.

The whole thing's in the pot here. It's in. Yeah. Last year was an example where, okay, they're going to come back. No one's getting fired. But there has to be one of their top four guys guys traded get a defenseman that didn't happen either so to suggest that uh all of a sudden they're gonna be like yes you know we're gonna go off the board no if you made it here you're living and dying by what the bed you've made here

it's just a real mixed metaphor there but whatever yeah yeah but a couple different ways all right um news and notes around the league uh let's start with jacob chikrin held out uh and will be held out for the remainder of the arizona coyote games yep you've got him going to la well uh la the uh uh brent uh clark uh was the the name that uh a lot of people that I had heard on the inside focusing in. I think it's another example of the value that they have on top of Jacob Chikrin with his three more cracks at a Stanley Cup at $4.6 million. That puts the value of this trade above Bo Horvath's. And we'll see where Timo Meier falls. But this means that you got to give us what we consider your top prospect. We went through this with Matthew Nyes with the Leafs.

And now Clark's a top 10 player, eighth overall pick in 2021. He's got to be one of the top prospects in the league. Has to be. Yeah, he's really, really good. And ripping it up since he's been returned from the World Juniors. He's got 26 points in 15 games for the Barry Colts this year as a defenseman. So if you are Arizona, if you're Bill Armstrong, why wouldn't you ask for a guy like that?

Sure. Yeah, I totally get that. You know, i do have questions with la like who do they think they are like where do they think they are they're what are they like an even goal differential team that's on the fringes of the playoffs however with chikrin he's a multi-year guy he's a long-term asset you know i so i get it they're still kind of ahead of schedule the kings i think like even for sure to have made the playoffs last year. But you worry about moving in too early before you're ready. But they are, you know, they're down in the first wildcard spot now.

They are five points up on the last spot. Audi's getting older. Like, you can't wait that long. I don't know. It's a fascinating spot. Yeah. So Leafs not happening then? Listen, as they say's everybody should be open everybody should be talking until the deal is done and it's uh stamped by the league why wouldn't

the leafs continue talking and and trying to find something that improves their hockey club. Names that are being bantered now don't mean necessarily that those are the names that you're going to end up with. We know this time of year things get floated out. There's test balloons. Am I allowed to use that? Am I allowed to use balloons? You are. It's very hot.

UFOs. So that's part of the game right now yeah yeah i it is fascinating and you know i mentioned those other big names you don't trust as much like chickering you're sure is a player player but i will say you've seen a couple of clips you know now that he's more in the news people are watching him more closely yes and it's like okay there's some flaws you know like most players he's got his warts so st louis probably had the first rounder on the table from the new york rangers decided to take it now yeah might not be there at the end and they had to throw in the big defenseman there micola yeah who comes in as a five or six, but one of those guys where you could easily tire of playing against

in the best of seven because he's 6'5", and he's got like octopus hands. It was interesting. Rangers are red hot now. They've won in five in a row. Panarin scored four the other night. Tarasenko scores in his debut. As an Islanders fan, watching the Oilers and Rangers be red hot,

not good. Can you remind me when their letter went out to the fans? Much like the Philadelphia Flyers, it was a plea to be patient. That's a good question. Four years ago, it's pre-Panarin. That was a letter of

intent that we're an original six team. We have a tremendous amount of pride, but we need to do this. Hey, question. And they are a contending team right now. Would you not have them as a contending team? One of the favorites, you know, one of the Boston. When did that go out?

2018? February 8, 2018. Okay. Question. Was Tortorella the coach then? No. No. I don't remember.

No, he was coaching. He's well gone. Yeah, he's well gone. He's clumsy. So let me ask you something. When that letter went out, were the Leafs way ahead of their kind of buildup? Well, yeah. way ahead of their kind of build-up. Well, yeah, they were in year two or three or something of their playoff pushes, yeah.

Okay. It's also really hard to me that have the Rangers passed the Leafs, you think, in your mind? They're there, yeah. I mean, they're neck and neck. If I had to pick them in a series, I'd probably pick the Rangers today.

Yeah. Gun to my head if they asked me which roster I'd want to have be the least roster, it would be a tough choice. But if I could have the Rangers roster. You got to give them credit for stockpiling assets and... Well, Keandre Miller made a huge difference for them. He became a stud.

He is. Quick. He's a rock star. Yeah. I love him. And they're big. Yeah. And they got bigger with micola i you know i

was thinking about that boy it's like tarasenko miccolo it's at a left winger and a bottom b and shisterkin and shisterkin yeah and panarin all of a sudden feels good because he's got a buddy now in tarasenko you score four on saturday night yes yeah it's pretty good uh good amount of goals to have in a game timo meyer the biggest name out there now outside of pat kane if he says yes or no and well timo meyer's a bigger name in terms of not not fame but future help you this year yeah i think um and there was a there was another article yeah you know jonah siegel wrote a little bit about Meyer in The Athletic and basically said it's viable for the Leafs to do it.

Yeah. You know, so the reality is you trade for Meyer and he is the next team, whoever has his rights. You were explaining this to me better before the show, but basically has to offer him a one-year $10 million deal. That's his qualifying offer or he becomes a free agent. Unless you get him to sign on a dotted line on an extension, which he's eligible to sign at any moment.

Which could be less than the $10 million, but he would only take it if it's got massive term. If you said eight times eight, five. The only question I ask you is, are athletes now in a position to bet on themselves does he take the surefire 10 million and then pick a spot the following year anywhere he wants to go for what we think would be a much higher cap and and be in a position to maybe match his 10 million if he comes off another 35 40 goals season or would he

welcome a trade and sign at eight or eight and a half well and the other thing there too is you could trade for him and have him as a six million dollar player have them retain have him as a three million dollar player oh my chair just dropped down but But then you could trade him. You could trade him as an RFA and recoup some of the assets and say to someone else, you have Timo Mayer now. You can either give him the 10 or extend him. And if you're Mayer, the idea of being extended for eight years with that team might be the incentive you need to sign. I'm sure it was for Bo Horvath.

But it is taking a chance. Oh, it sure is. It's taking a chance that you, Timo says, I'm playing out my option. That unless you offer me a match at my 10 million, I'll bet on myself. And then you're caught. Well, then you got to trade Bilbo Baggins. That's your only options. Nylander's gone at that point.

Or you see if someone wants Meyer at one year, 10 million, there'd be takers. Don't you think? I, I, I would think it would be hard though. Yeah. Someone would be hard to fit that.

Retain two. Yeah. We're talking about next year. So even if they renegotiate the cap, which we think that, that it might, it'll be heading there. We're talking about a minimal 3 million,

maybe. I mean, that's massive to me. It'd be hard to add that. And I think we're experiencing that with all the Carlson, Eric Carlson talk linking him to the Edmonton Oilers. And when it's all said and done, how do you make this happen with a commitment still of three or four more years, Sammy, on Eric Carlson? I think four.

Can you convince San Jose to pick up 50%? No chance. That's a tough pill to swallow for an owner. First round picks, probably not going to convince you. I'm paying. Depends if he likes hockey or not. You know what I mean? Like, it's a smart... You can pay $20 million for first round picks out the wazoo.

I mean, the MLSC would love to do that. But I understand your point. As a San Jose Sharks owner, maybe there's less appeal of paying $20 million for assets. That may not become something. Exactly. Like, first of all, is it a salary dump? Or do you really think you're going to end up with a couple of first rounders and a blue chip prospect?

Or is it going to be, I'm doing you a favor here, so. Well, that's the other thing, too, is. Is Edmonton saying, we're doing you a favor. We're going to get rid of. It's the Max Pacioretty thing with Carolinaolina where you say we'll take them off your hands you don't have the cap space and if you're the oil as you're saying to san jose you're not trying to win right now so we're doing you a favor taking this huge hit off your books we'll give you a third round pick we'll take the salary you have the cap space that's your new asset

because that is teams now look at cap space as an asset like they did picks and prospects in the past yeah but that's all of a sudden picked up steam hasn't it carlson to the oilers yeah you've been talking about this for four months kip well i i was talking about a guy that certainly uh is on his way to win a norris i mean my god right how about him he's got to be the best power play d-man in the nhl for god knows how long you know somebody too many too many cooks though maybe he's he's also actually got good numbers uh five on five oh like uh scoring numbers yeah like the goals and assists yes oh yeah like he is uh he might have more even strength points than mcdavid or goal he's up there like it's i think people tend to think oh he's uh

he's detrimental defensively yeah but when he's on the ice you got a better chance of scoring than having a goal scored against you the play is going that way this year yeah i mean he's been but the other thing too is guys like you know you, you know, you can link Carlson to Edmonton all day long. But somebody's got to ask him, would you and your wife want to go and play in Edmonton for the next four years? That is such a, you know, I thought of that, too, when I heard of that. I was like, so he's a no move. Yes, no move. And you're going to go to him in San Jose and and say would you like to go to edmonton for four

years ottawa was pretty cold in the winter too boys he played there a long time yeah but here's the difference he liked it he played there when he didn't have any other choice yes he was a free agent and he hand-picked the pacific ocean as a view the sw, the Swedes. The Swedes like the cold. I love you as the teenager from Simpsons. All right. Maybe you know something, Sammy. I know nothing. But would that be must-see TV, Carlson and Connor McDavid?

Do you think, though, there's a thing like, is that too many good players and people are going to be like, shut up, that's dumb. But, like, who runs the power play? They're the best power play in the NHL. Can someone make it better? Why you need somebody to play on that? The back.

Yeah. I mean, Tyson Berry is done. Okay. Tyson's already, they can't ship Tyson back to San Jose fast enough. Yeah. Would that be the, Oh, they'd have to unload that. Yes. Yeah.

There's no world where Carlson comes in and, tyson berry's still there ah yeah that makes sense yeah but who was tweeting about or maybe elliot said today that berry is like a an integral part of the internal workings in edmonton they love him he's a good guy no carlson then yeah i know i know i'm sure the guy's like we absolutely love him and we can catch up in the summer yeah you know see you on the golf course yeah we'll book a tea time in hawaii and we will catch up we're okay but yeah i understand that it's a there are there are personalities at work but you want the best players possible uh luke shen all of a sudden not that cheap to trade for him neon waivers three years ago a while ago yeah that that kind of ship sailed now it's you're getting a leader you're getting a guy that's playing 17 minutes a night i worry about

the cup champ guy who's and you're getting the most physical hitter in NHL modern history. Yeah. No, you're right. I mean, it's all that. I just worry that the reputation has outgrown reality. You know what I mean? Wow. All of a sudden, it's not that far-fetched to think that you might press for a first rounder or a second rounder.

If the Leafs trade a first rounder for Luke Shin, I'm not coming into work the next day. No disrespect to Luke Shin. Very good and valuable player. That is funny. That is funny. All right. Just like that.

Two hours. Sammy, do I have to, from the gala, do I have to get you home by midnight or are you going to turn into something? Don't know, Kipper. Don't know. Don't know, Kipper. Don't know. Don't know, buddy. All right.

Just getting through here. Just getting through. We'll have some fun. Of course, it's a night with the blue and white presented by Rogers, the Leaf Gala, where Sammy will make his debut. All right. Our thanks to Anthony Stewart. Our thanks to Bruce Boudreau.

Give us a rating and review if you get a chance. Thanks for joining us. We're back tomorrow.