Real Kyper & Bourne - Playing with Pressure

Episode Date: November 21, 2024

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne welcome in sports performance psychologist Dr. Dana Sinclair (3:25) to discuss JT Miller stepping away from the Canucks due to reported burnout, the importance of managing emotions and the work she does with pro athletes to build mental strength. Then, Nick, Justin and Sam McKee react to Darnell Nurse's comments on Ryan Reaves as he returns to the ice and Alex Ovechkin's goal chase getting put on hold as he's ruled out week-to-week. Finally, Sportsnet's Garry Galley (30:45) weighs in on Zach Whitecloud's hit on Matthew Knies, the Canucks' next-man-up mentality and what went wrong for Jim Montgomery in Boston.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

welcome into the national hour of the real kipper and born show we are live on sportsnet 650 in vancouver and sportsnet 960 in calgary this hour of real kipper and born brought to you by bet three six five nick kiprios justin bourne sammy m McKee with you for the next hour. In a few minutes, we'll welcome in Dr. Dana Sinclair, who you had a chance to talk to earlier last week. Yep. At a... Primetime sports. Primetime sports event.

Yeah. And she, of course, has worked with many professional leagues, maybe as many as 10 teams in the National Hockey League on performance coaching, which comes maybe on the hands of what we're hearing about JT Miller or Elliott Friedman reporting that he may be out with perhaps burnout,

which we'll ask Dr. Dana if that's something that happens more often than we even know about. Right. Yeah, it's going to be great. I'm looking forward to it. It's obviously a greatly

growing part of professional sports. It's trying to squeeze that extra you know one two percent out of yourself and she specializes in doing it the list of teams she's worked with is extensive and we'll you know introduce her in a few minutes but every major sports league olympics pga can she uh help my burnout from the lease hour no no no you know what will help we just won't talk about the lease Help my burnout from the Leafs hour? No. No. The answer there. You know what will help? We just won't talk about the Leafs.

Thank God. Thank God. You going to be okay with that? Yes. But we are going to talk hits. In about 35 minutes, too, we'll welcome in Gary Galley, former NHLer, close to 1,200 career games in the National Hockey League.

Does an amazing job on Sportsnet Hockey Night in Canada. He'll also join us as well. In the meantime, Darnell Nurse, speaking of big hits, is back skating with the Edmonton Oilers. And he had some words to describe his hit. Let's have a listen. Yeah, he came after and apologized. I mean, yeah, there's, you know, in situations like that, He came after and apologized.

In situations like that, there's definitely an onus on the player with the puck to be aware of where everyone else is on the ice, for sure. With that said, even if you put yourself in a bad spot, there's lots of body on a 6'4 hockey player to hit. And not one piece was touched other than the head. You can argue about the intent, but there's certain guys in the league that each shift they go out there, they're trying to go in and inflict pain. And yeah, I think it's pretty obvious what uh what was going on there and that wasn't uh the only big hit that we saw this week of course last night against vegas and

sammy's leafs uh that was another one uh we'll get into that maybe tune into the leafs hour gary no we'll we'll get gary galley's thoughts the Leafs hour. Gary, no, we'll get Gary Gally's thoughts. Full yelling match. In the meantime, as we said earlier, let's welcome in Dr. Dana Sinclair, registered psychologist and a holder of a doctorate. Is that right? Yeah, she's got more degrees than you, pal. She's got way more than me.

Dr. Dana, help me out here. Hey, forget about the current players this panel needs help panels always need help nick it's okay it feels better just to hear to be honest thank you see justin no problem uh thanks for joining us uh doctor we really appreciate your time and i think it comes maybe at a good time where uh you know we look around the league now and uh you know not that we're we're privileged to all the information out there but when we see a player like a top player like jt miller step aside um and you know our elliot friedman talked about the word burnout in his situation in his latest piece on 32 Thoughts. It's got to be something that maybe is more common than we might know out there. It is more common. I mean, everybody has to deal

with pressure, of course, and everybody wants results. Everybody wants to be good, but it's not always easy to get to your best, which is why learning how to manage your emotions when the pressure's on is really important. And as I say, no matter who you are or what you do, we've all got to perform. We've all got to deal with the stresses that come with trying to be good. And it can catch up to us sometimes.

And is it more likely, more common for an athlete to have a harder time or be more prone to burnout for people who are more emotional. And, you know, Miller in particular, we see as an emotional player. True, but I think that comes down to more the individual and the performance style, the behaviors that they are built with. Everybody has strengths and weaknesses, of course. Some people are more reactive, more tense, less patient, more avoidant. So it kind of depends on what constellation of behaviors that you actually have,

because we do tend to go back to our default behaviors when we're stressed. And, you know, I say there's a couple of skills that can definitely help people out, but I don't think athletes have more pressure um than anybody else in terms of burnout actually so i think a lot of people thought of course everybody can suffer it in in any forms but as as an athlete the added pressure or or the guilt of not being there. And I only say that because, you know, people work at desks every day, but no one's paying $250 to go see them, you know, perform at their desk. And JT Miller's a highly paid athlete who is supposed to be performing, and he's not.

And what about the added pressure of not being there? What does that do to the athlete? Well, first of all, I was going to say, yes, people like him get paid a lot of money, but they're also very good at what they do. So it's hard for sometimes a normal person to understand or think that's so much pressure, and it is. But if you're really good at something, it's, you know, something usually you want to do and, and you end up doing, doing a good job. It's just that when you are not

performing well, and you're thinking about all the distractions, the outcome, the results, what ifs, expectations, all those those things those can derail anybody so you know over the course of your career doing this for for as long as you have what would be the more common i guess requests that people come in with this is uh you know a fairly machismo laden world that we operate in and i think maybe it is more common and accepted now to have harder conversations about mental state and all that. So what do you most commonly deal with when athletes come to you? Well most of the time they're coming and again whether they're athletes or surgeons or actors or whomever it's all about results and outcome that's really what's getting you know into their

heads and they're spending an inordinate amount of time thinking about that rather than being able to shift over onto what they have to do to get the results that they normally get. The other thing is people worry about their confidence too much and people don't understand that talent does not ensure your success. It's your mindset. It's your mental approach. If you don't know how to manage your mental approach when the pressure's on, you're going to have trouble. We're talking to Dr. Dana Sinclair, who is a performance coach with professional hockey teams, baseball. You've been around.

You've dealt with some of the top athletes in the world, doctor. But we also have lots of watchers and listeners who aren't professional athletes who can lose their confidence as much as an athlete. So what's the difference in terms of what you would tell an athlete opposed to someone else who isn't when it comes to losing your confidence? Like what are the exercises to get it back? Right. Because, you know, you'd be surprised that confidence, whether you're professional or not. It's still the same sort of psychological barriers that hit you. It's just the nuance of a professional athlete obviously is a little bit different.

But there are four basic skills that I love people to have a handle on. And you don't have to do all four, but just pick one and do it. And the four really are being able to get calm and stay there. And it sounds goofy, but it's all about breathing properly, quickly, learning how to do that. That's a skill. Knowing what your performance cues are, knowing how to shift your focus back to the task in the moment. You know, it's great when you don't feel pressure. Everybody's pretty, you know, successful, but it's when the pressure's on, wow, what do I have to get to right now? What's the task? If it's an interview, if it's a presentation, if it's a game, what do I have to do to pull myself right back into doing what I normally do? So that's

important. The other two, getting a hold of yourself, talk, being able to direct yourself well. And fourth thing is learning how to daydream better. We all daydream anyway. So why not be a little bit more focused on it and do it for short clips here and there it doesn't have to be some long imagery exercise just some short clips of seeing yourself do well what you've done before seeing yourself composed calm dealing with the situation differently those are the big four yeah i'm sorry did you say something i was on the 18th hole at the masters right now yeah thanks kid so you know you talk about this is like a results based business and people want to get better results.

What do you do with athletes who just aren't good enough? It's the same thing, but sometimes they just have to realize that they're not good enough and accept that they're not going to get much time on the ice or that they're never going to make the big time. And sometimes they have to just let it go and move on. I do, unfortunately, no, fortunately, actually help people quit and hopefully at the right time. Yeah.

Because sometimes it just becomes too much and you got to move on in any walk of life, really. Can I ask you just in terms of how important is trust between you and the athlete, the athlete and you? you and yes there's a boss and yes you're getting paid by somebody but where are our teams are teams good to the players to understand the relationship between you and the athlete no ultimately are they going what is going on with our player? Get him better. Sometimes.

Okay, so that is a good question because for me and the athlete, the trust thing is a big deal. Sort of the confidentiality thing is a big deal. And obviously, if I can't help someone quickly and keep it to myself and help them move into what they need to without going around telling everybody, you know, it's a problem if I can't do that. So, yes. And I'm a very athlete player centric psychologist because it is about the player. It's about their best interest, not the guy who's paying me. So, you know, a lot of times there are different

managements around. I mean, I have been in all the leagues and most are pretty good. Some GMs are great. They just say, okay, do your job. Let me know if there's a problem. And if I do ever have to go to management, I always go through the player and say, hey, do you want to talk to them? Or do you want me to? Or what are we going to do? So it's always it's always with their blessing. And I should say the one time one time I got fired by a professional sports team or ever. It was because I just started. We were a couple of weeks into the season and management. It was the second time they brought me up to to the whatever floor. And they were mad because I kept refusing to give them a list of player names

and what we were talking about. So out the door I went. Didn't work out. Yeah. Well, if it makes you feel better, the Leafs haven't been in the third round. No, I don't know if it's the Leafs or not. No, no. No, it wasn't the Leafs.

Okay, all right. Yes, indeed. The one thing we've talked about in this show, it was Thatcher Demko, who is supposed to be back sooner. It's taken a little bit of time, and he said something in his interview, like he doesn't allow himself to get in a future-thinking mentality. It sounded something very sports psychologist-y.

How do you help people who are injured and trying to sort of maintain a sense of normalcy while waiting to get back? Yeah, that is a tough one, definitely. Of course, I love people to have a facts list. Okay, let's think about and talk about the things that had been going really well, why you're in this position, what you're good at, where are we at medically, when are you going to get the green light and sort of keep them thinking about what they have to do, their highlights, what they're going to do when they come back. So maybe that, I don't know if that's a future mindset or not, but it's certainly a productive mindset. I think what people want to avoid is thinking about, you know, getting caught up in

their feelings. Again, the confidence, can I do it? Will it, will, will I be a hundred percent again? Well, most likely, yeah. We just have to have a little bit of patience and keep your head on what you're going to do when you get back. One more for me, doc. Have you ever come across an athlete that has like blown your mind in terms of how rock solid this person may be and they never get rattled and it's like does he have the secret sauce or you know what is it was it upbringing was it parenting was it a coach like is there a secret sauce out there well you can never tell what goes into the mix parenting coaches etc but the best people that i have seen they they are able to get to their skills more quickly under pressure and that really comes down to again their performance style how they

are built and that happens earlier in life you know we can all learn to be better at it. So don't fret out there, people. Everybody can learn to be better with this stuff. But really, it's being able to take action, be a little bit more assertive and take initiative in the moment. And it's about not getting caught up in trying to be perfect because it's never going to happen. So you might as well just settle down and forget that script for self-defeat and go with being excellent or being really good. And, you know, being able to take a moment when you get frustrated. So when your mind shifts back over to all those hot spots and distractions,

boom, calm it down, shift your focus over to what you have to do right now. And I will tell people, if you want to know more about that, Dr. Dana Sinclair has a book out called Dialed In. And I have read it and it is fantastic and it can help you, you know, learn some of these edges that she's talking about here today. So if the three of us just calm down and breathe, we should be okay. Well, that's just a good start. Sounds like there's more work. Oh, that's just a good start. Sounds like there's more work.

Oh, no. Just a little bit. Doctor, really appreciate your time and your insight. And, you know, just bill us. Because I think this was for us more than anything. We really appreciate your time. Thanks for doing this. Thanks, you guys.

I appreciate it. Thanks, Dana. Thanks a lot. Dana Sinclair. your time thanks for doing this thanks you guys i appreciate it thanks dana thanks a lot dana sinclair um you know did you ever talk to anyone at uh sports related yeah we always had a couple of people even early in the like 90s early 90s there was there was guys around and um uh jennifer our jennifer butterallill had her dad around our team. Okay.

In the mid-90s with the Rangers. Did you ever feel like you didn't have, like you were the same player, you just had lost your mental game? I never felt like. You didn't have a whole lot going on to mess up, eh? Yeah, I don't know. I just never needed, I think, to reach out? Yeah, I don't know. I just never needed, I think, to reach out. Yeah.

I don't know. I kind of just stayed in my lane and pushed hard. And, you know, I tried to laugh like Grabenkin, you know, at the end of the day. I mean, I certainly saw it, you know, in the American League. People just burn out. It's kind of just tough, you know, playing below and trying to get up. And you just see other guys getting promoted. You're playing for your team, but you're not, right?

Like, you'd rather lose and score two. You know, so there's this weird, it's a tough league for that, particularly making 10% of what the NHL guys are making. What was the feeling when you're playing the NHL and you see somebody go up ahead of you that you thought you're better than like that must be a killer yeah some guys yeah yeah yeah you just kind of have to say to yourself tomorrow i'm gonna prove them wrong yeah and you just you can't you can't let it affect your performance or else you're kind of cooked. But, you know, to Doc's point there, when she says when things are,

the first thing you got to do is just go to your skill, right? And let your skill take over. And just being around such great players like, you know, a six-time Stanley Cup champion like Marc Messier, the great ones have an ability to go to their skill first because their skill is their comfort zone. Yeah, that's a great way to put it. It's their...

The thing they know. It's the thing that they know. They've done it since they were seven, and that's where they're most comfortable. And, you know, there's a saying that the great ones can slow the game down. Well, they don't really slow the game down, but they slow their breathing down, as the doctor just mentioned. And they have a way of not letting the moment overcome you.

Yeah, you get to that skill. The doc has worked with eight NHL teams, eight NBA teams, five baseball teams, seven NFL teams, PGA, Olympics, TFC, on and on and on. So a lot of experience at it. Wow. Good stuff. Did you want to go back to the nurse conversation?

Yeah, we should finish that up probably. Yeah, he's skating again, so we could see action as early as this weekend. But, you know, like we briefly discussed in our earlier hour uh i mean very fortunate uh the way his his head spun and there's a couple of pictures out there where like it could have been really serious yeah it is pretty scary when you see the one still shot of the way his neck is turned yeah it's remarkable that like he got up and got off the ice and he's up and around and i guess like it's just biological some people are just more prone to literally different yeah like just very fortunate that he seems to be a guy

who god and do you think those ufc guys take like six punches to the chin just they're fine so we listened to the clip before we talked to Dr. Dana there. Do you think of Reeves as a dirty guy? I don't. I don't typically, but he does have more of a track record than I thought when I looked into it. Come on. Think about his role all these years. You've got to play on the edge.

Four suspensions. I'm not sure the number. I believe it's... I think this is his fourth. His fourth? I think so, yeah. At the end end of the day it's just part of doing business that's the tax that's the tax to be in the league that you pay off your salary to maintain that role yeah and his job is to go out there and when craig berube scream and finish your checks he's the he's got to be the first guy to go if i don't't do that, I'm out of the league.

Well, and I think, you know, you and I talked about throwing bad hits by accident, and you get locked in. I have to throw this hit when you're only playing seven, eight minutes. You know, I got to believe that plays into it. I do think it's interesting that, you know, he went to the Oilers' room, it sounds like, made an apology, and then you hear Nurse

a day or two later doing this interview. He's still mighty upset. Yeah. The apology thing for me, I would rather it doesn't happen. Like, you know, I played beer league hockey in Toronto.

Somebody's knee on knees. He's like, Oh, I'm sorry. Like, I'd rather you just don't say anything. Like you don't want to be, Oh,

you're sorry for running your shoulder through my brain at top speed. You're trying to hammer me. You weren't like, you weren't trying to knock my head off, but you were trying to inflict pain on me. Don't go and apologize. I would hate that if I was a nurse. I think that's a totally justified reaction.

Do you agree, Kip? I don't know. I got a guess coming up next. I haven't apologized to in 30 years. Okay, so are we bringing this up or no? I don't know. But, like, to your point, I didn't go down there. I didn't go and apologize.

But people didn't then, Kip. I don't know. People didn't then. I know. You're right. Now it's like everyone texts each other. Like you throw a bad hit. All the same agent.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I wouldn't want it if I was a nurse. And like I would get how pissed off he still is. Yeah. In 1990, you'd have to send a smoke signal or something. I don't know. I wouldn't want it if I was nursed. And, like, I would get how pissed off he still is. Yeah. In 1990, you'd have to send a smoke signal or something. I don't know.

A little carrier pigeon over to the other room. Are you guys beating me up on my age now? I'm old now? I don't know. Listen, I got to tee up on something. It's been a reckless week. I got to go Jake Paul against a power holder. Okay.

Speaking of old, Ovechkin.vechkin oh yeah right out week to week washington gonna be okay you think yes i do think so um but it is you know he was leading the nhl in goals so pretty significant do we have a clip on this are we putting pressure on sam while he's time well who spoke about him being out of the lineup. I cut the clip, but I'm not sure if I put it in the system. So if I'll be totally honest, I don't think we have the clip. Okay. Yeah, fair enough. But he basically was saying that we don't need to reinvent

the wheel and that he's going to be around and we don't have to overdo this is what he was alluding to. Yeah. So I heard the hope is he's back in the new year. No, you didn't. Really? Well, how far is he's back in the new year. No, you didn't. Really?

Well, how far is that away? In the new year? I guess it's only five weeks or six weeks. Yeah. Well, that's a long time, Kev. That's a long time. Yeah. It is a long time. And that changes the record.

Week to week. That totally changes the pursuit of the record. Because unless he's going to get 27 goals in half a season. Wow. I know. He was on pace for 68, so don't rule it out. This injury will shut down the chance for him to pass Gretzky. This year?

Yeah. I'm getting heat for being a hater about the record chase here from Ovi. So does he need 27? Yeah. 27. I mean, 27. Has anyone listened to our show for the last four years? It blows my mind when people are like, oh, you hate Ovi.

It's like, uh, correct. Duh. So how many games? Do the math. You're the producer. How many games? Yeah, math. No, come on. What do you want from me? All right, I games yeah math no what do you want from me

all right i'll do it what do you want from me i want how many games if he came back in the first or second week of january how many games oh my god would they have left like over half the season right we don't have 40 that's how many they have left could he do 27 goals in 40 games yes he was on pace for 68 yeah he has 15 and 18 that's coming off a janky leg a bad leg he's been on it will if he's off for four to six weeks over the holidays too right oh he's gonna come back 10 heavier we've seen heavy ovi in july have we not the volleyball pictures of him up there in his barrel. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. It's never stopped him before.

I mean, he doesn't, it's not like he's flying down the wing Ovi anymore. He's shooting hard. Yeah. A long timer. Like he used to, him coming down off the left or right wing in his prime was one of the more devastating things.

The one goal he scored against, I think it was Carey Price, where he put it off the board behind his back. I remember that one, yeah. And then like falling, like he just, he had so many unbelievable plays like that. Ovi's going to have a Yager year when he's like 48 and he's still just taking one-timers and scoring goals.

So you're taking heat because... I'm taking heat for being a hater on Ovi catching Gretzky. We don't need to do this again. No, we don't, but it's... We don't need to do this again. By the way, there's not everybody's going to like to see Gretzky lose this don't need to do this again. No, we don't. By the way, there's not everybody's going to like to see Gretzky lose this title. I get that. I think a lot of Canadians are rooting for Gretzky to maintain the record.

I saw a poll somewhere from The Athletic that was like 1% of people were rooting against it. Yeah, people just want to see a cool thing happen. We are. What was that chant? We are the 99%. We're the 1%. He is the greatest goal scorer in the history of the game.

No doubt about it. You got to celebrate it. Guys. And he's okay. Gretz is okay. He's not. He doesn't have the most goals. Okay.

Until he does. Until he does. That's all. He is the best. And he also played Gretzky. He had 10 million in Gretzky's era oh come on january 10th would be halfway through their season so january 10th is 41 games okay thank you to joe boat for that okay i think 41 games gen 10 okay nailed that i said i'm around

40 games yeah but yeah we didn't know the date it would be that he was at 41, but that's about it. I think probably in the first two or three games of his comeback, we'd know if there's a chance or not. Yeah, just watching him hobble around out there. Hobble around. Yeah. Roll around. As cold-hearted as I am towards Alexander Ovechkin,

and I say that very sincerely, there is no doubt that the start of this season was one of the best sports stories in the world yeah that this guy who is almost 40 chasing an all-time record yeah start like was on a 60 goal pace it's unbelievable and the nhl is probably devastated that's gotten robbed from him a bit but i'm gonna get you to cheer by the by the time he gets close to the record sam Sammy. I got to tell you, bud, probably not going to happen. But you know what is going to happen? Game time. It's game time.

Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for latest odds and find out why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. So tonight, they start, the Boston Bruins start the post-Jim Montgomery era with Joe Sacco behind the bench they are hosting

the Utah Hockey Club a they are minus 140 favorites in this game I can't really think of a bigger game for them then they might need the dub they if the Utah Hockey Club comes in there after Lang who they lose 5-1-2. Columbus in the last game that got Montgomery fired. And then they lose again to Utah. Panic. Are you wearing a Go Club shirt tonight or hat tonight? Go HC. I mean, I have a million hats, so I could maybe dig one of those up.

But yeah, HC, that's a big one for the Boston Bruins. It's the post-McGumray era. Do you think this is going to change anything? Like having a new coach? Like a couple games here and there? The boys are bummed. How good are they? Really?

The Bruins. Yes. They're built to win one way, and the stars were not like... Pasternak was hurt this summer after the World Championships, and he's not looked like himself. He's on pace for 70 points. They don't have top centermen. No. They thought Lindholm was David Krejci,

and he's not. Did they not watch him in Vancouver? Not enough. Not enough. I mean, when you're shopping for UFAs, I think you think you talk yourself into guys being guys, and they wanted Zdorov to be Zdeno, and this guy to be Krejci, and they're not.

I'm looking. How many goals does Elias Lindholm have this year? One even strength. I don't know. He's got nine points in 20 games. He's on pace for 37 points. Yikes. Which is the first year of a seven-year deal. Yeah. So if you're a Leafs fan. And I said for sure that

when he put on that jersey, he was going to turn into David Krejci. I really felt that that was going to happen and it just hasn't. So. Yeah. other one I was just looking at tonight, Calgary Flames hosting the New York Rangers. And I just have to say, Calgary on home ice with their reds versus the Rangers road whites. Oh, it's an all-uniform night. Maybe the best uniform matchup in the NHL.

I can't think of it. I love the Flames. I love the Rangers. I think they're two of the classics in the league. We've got to find a Flames jersey, okay? Because, like, why do you keep putting up a Leafs shirt in our national hour? Do you want me to put up the baby Oilers jersey that Fabbro gave us? I don't have anything else.

Seven Canadian kits. Somebody send us some jerseys. Do you want me to bring the zigzags back in? I can do that, boys. No, I don't. Okay. We need jerseys. Okay.

Why don't you go upstairs to the bosses and go? We need jerseys from other teams. I'm sure your life would be thrilled for you to get the barrels of jerseys you have in your basement out. Bring them here. You got to have the best jersey collection in the world. You got a Caps Kiprios? You got a Hartford Whaler somewhere? I did that once 18 years ago and my jerseys got stolen out of my car.

Yeah. We'd steal them too. Yeah. They wouldn't be stolen out of the car. They'd be stolen out of the studio by me. Anyways, that was game time presented by bet. Three, six, five. Visit the app for latest odds to find out why it's ever ordinary at bet.

Three, six, five. Must be 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. And all you NHL teams out there. If you got an extra Jersey, mail it to Sammy. That's right. We'll get it on our show. We'll put a Ducks jersey up.

We don't care. We're crazy. No, that was actually a lie. I lied. All right. I've been told. Let's break. Gary Gally, up next when we return to Real Kipper Unborn.

Hey, it's Matt Marchese. And I'm Mike Futa. We're discussing the top stories of the day across the NHL and the hockey world, weekdays at noon. It's the Fan Hockey Show on Sportsnet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. The Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. This hour of real Kipra and Bourne is brought to you by Bet365. All right, let's welcome him in, Gary Gally, former NHLer, 1149 games. Does a terrific job, Sportsnet, Hockey Night in Canada.

Gals, thanks for joining us, man. Busy week, eh, with all these big hits. Sammy talked about Ryan Reeves going to apologize to Darnell nurse. And I don't know if you caught our show Monday, but I kind of mentioned about a hit that I put on you and I didn't have the guts to apologize to you. And I did it 30 years later and I feel shame. It was a very nice apology,

gals. Boy, it took you a while to think up that. wow. That was pretty good. You didn't feel an ounce of remorse when he did it either. Listen, when Dave Brown came after me and started punching me six feet under the ground, I felt bad for sure. But you were always a gentleman to me

and never made me feel like you hated my guts. And I really appreciated it. It's all part of the game. The crazy, the craziness of it is like, I don't know if, if Reeves felt like he had to apologize and obviously felt like he did

something wrong. It's like, if you felt like your hit was meant to be clean and you had no malice in it, you were just taking the body. Then, you know, it just taking the body then you know it just turned out bad you know you would go over to check on how the person was doing um you know i remember hitting rick tocket one night and just caught him and unfortunately hit his head on the dasher and i went down more or less because he's you know an ex-teammate i just wanted to see if

he was okay uh there was no malice in the hit whatsoever. But the hits that we're seeing and that we used to see a lot more are these driving hits that, you know, have disappeared out of our game quite a bit. So when we see one, it's kind of like an eye popper. It's like, oh, boy, like when Trouba runs over somebody or, you know, White Cloud last night or Reeves. It's like it's a shocking thing to people because we're not used to seeing it as much as we used to see it. So it's a bigger deal now. And when we do see it, and I'm sure you saw the Nyes hit last night and then the Nurse hit on the weekend here, do people truly understand what they're seeing?

Do they truly understand how the rules are interpreted in terms of what the players and the general managers and the league want in terms of the do's and don'ts or do we still have to further educate or even maybe go back and revisit the rule book gals what are your thoughts on that the you know there's the the technicality is is the head should never be the main frame of the body check you shouldn't be targeting the head at any point in the hit. So you've got to start asking yourself, if you're the National Hockey League, looking at this hit immediately right away and saying, was he targeting the head?

Or was he targeting the main frame of the body and the head just happened to get hit in the process? And I think that's what I think they came down at the end of the day that's what they came down to was they felt like white cloud was targeting the main frame of the body and unfortunately the head you know was a big part of it and it wasn't necessarily the object of what he was trying to do um you know so uh you know people are going to look at it through different eyes and have different opinions on it some Some people will say, that's hogwash. He hit him in the head. His head was first.

You'd have to break it down milliseconds at a time to see where the connection started, where it ended. But at the end of the day, everyone's going to have an opinion. But physical hockey is physical hockey. And I watch games and I do a lot of games, guys. And a lot of players skate around with their head down. A lot of players skate around with thinking that the possibility of them getting hit is rare. And especially in the open ice where we don't see a lot of open ice hitting as much as we used to. I think the one thing you have to look at and the difference in that hit last night was that he was being tracked by

Colasar. Colasar was on his right side and he had Nize's attention. So as Nize was trying to skate up the ice moving north-south, he had Colasar to his right side. And I think that took enough of his attention away that a split second and White Cloud just buried him. Yeah, excellent point. And that's what happens when you have more than one thing on your mind at once.

You get a little bit lazy. You know, I remember going into Chicago one night, and Dumba had just obliterated Patrick Kane in a game in Chicago. And we got in a couple days later, and I was asking Joel Quenville at the time, you know, what about the hit? And he goes, I gave him a couple of days later and I was asking Joel Quenville at the time, you know, you know, what about the hit? And he goes, I gave him a couple of days off after that hit, not because he was hurt because he was tired. And I said, what is,

you mean he was tired? He goes, yeah. Cause he doesn't get hit like that when he's not tired. He's got more awareness around him. He understands like he never gets hit like that. He goes with Patrick Kane gets hit like that. It's time to give him a couple of days off. He's tired. And it's like, you know, sometimes we get in a game and maybe we're just, we're just,

you know, we're unfocused a little bit. And then all of a sudden, you know, whammo, something like that happens. Gals, who are the, the gentlemen or ladies behind you that just joined you in the screen

there? Oh, well, those are my buddies right there. That's a, my, my, two bernie doodles and a golden doodle so that's one of the bernie doodles he's the big boy he's a hundred pounder uh kobe and then denver after my broncos is my golden doodle so yeah they like to hang with me that's great and i'm also many people do i'm fascinated by a lot of what's going on. Gals, is this your brand, too, 3G? Is your middle name Glenn? What is the hat?

No, 3G, 3 was my number that I played predominantly with. I wore it in college. When I played professionally quite a bit, it's been a very good number to me. And G's for galley. So 3G Hockey Consulting Inc. is my company. And when I used to run hockey camps for defensemen and stuff and goaltenders, when we used to band hockey camps for defensemen and stuff and goaltenders, when we used to get band together and do that 3g hockey was the, was the, was the camps that we used to run.

So 3g is kind of my, my thing. So, yeah. So I, I made a bunch of hats one time and I have so many left over. I got to wear them. Well,

they throw a couple of this way to the panel. We'll put them on set. So gals, we're, we've been talking across Canada this week to the panel we'll put them on set um so gals we're we've been talking uh across canada this week the the vancouver canucks kind of going through a hard time they're without demko uh you know they're without a lot of players they're without besser they're without miller and we just saw the leafs last night win minus a lot of their great players. What is it about teams, you know, what changes when you're without those top guys? I think simplicity. I think, you know, the one thing,

I'll get to Vancouver, but just the Leafs in general, because I watched the game last night, and the one thing is, like, some of the guys who are being taken to task for their play are starting to figure it out. They're starting to come back, like Benoit and guys that Craig is starting to put the thumb down on a little bit because he expects more and his expectation and what his expectations are

and what the player's role is. I think some of the guys are starting to come back and bite back a little bit. And any time a coach does that, and Kipper, you guys know this, like any time a coach does it, he's looking for a response and what kind of response he gets. And he's getting good responses from guys coming back into the lineup that have been healthy scratched or sat out and then he's getting this young enthusiasm from some of the players who are coming into the lineup that are getting their first taste

in the national hockey league and they just want to do everything right and i think when you're missing the guys that they're missing and the guys that are left like marner and tavaris and nylander they have to understand that they have to do the simple things and the little things right as well so what you're getting is this a ton of energy and really good smart play by the leafs they're and good goaltending very good goaltending so at the end of the day um you know comfortable playing in the tight games which i think craig wants them to start getting more comfortable playing in low scoring tight games and continuing to see a little more jam in their game.

You know, there was, there was a time when something would happen and you'd have to count one Mississippi to Mississippi, you know, you get the four Mississippi, you're wondering, is anyone coming in here? It's, that's not the case anymore. So you got to give them a lot of credit. They've made a lot of changes, and it's nice to see them playing well, even without some of their star players. Now, Vancouver, a whole other ballgame there.

They don't have their – which would have been their number one goalie that would be in the nets for them. And their lineup is getting just like a death of a thousand cuts, right? And a real tough one to lose Miller for what looks to be a pretty good period of time. So that's really hard to understand what's going on there. Obviously an injury and maybe some other things that are going on, some personal things. So the Vancouver Canucks, they're going to have to move forward without it and they're going to have to ask for more for some guys.

Some of their young guys in their system are going to have to come up and take, you know, pretty good-sized roles. And, you know, when a door opens up, man, jam your foot in it and make an impression. That's what you've got to do. So I'll look to hopefully see that in Vancouver as well. But certainly tip my hat to the Leafs. They've done a nice job so far. And hope whatever jt miller is going through it's a

speedy recovery uh absolutely but you know gals i'm gonna throw something at you and and you tell me if it's hogwash or not but uh we often joked in previous seasons about team a and team b here in toronto and i don't know if the cap has anything to do with guys making 11 million dollars and some making 750 but with jt miller out of vancouver's lineup or austin matthews out of toronto and maybe a few other injuries there there there is a sense that you're now inviting more ownership to other guys and you know what choice do you have but like there's been a bit of a separation amongst teams of the haves and the have-nots and i just think that you know it could be a blessing for the rest of the team to in vancouver

without jt miller because the easy thing sometimes to do is just to go to your star players and say hey listen we're listen if we're down go get that goal that's what you're getting paid for well yeah I mean and ice time is different like time on ice is huge I mean that's that gets absorbed by

the top end right so when you're missing a lot of your top end your ice time seem to spread out a little bit more across the board. Yeah. And guys who don't normally get the minutes they normally get. So any hockey player would tell you the more that they play, the better they feel when you're jumping over the boards, you know,

it's broken up in minutes, you're a couple of minutes, then you're five minutes without a shift. And then a couple of power plays and a penalty kill, and you haven't played in eight minutes and then you're jumping on and you're trying to create something you know that's a lot of time for your brain to be rolling around your head when you're sitting there the game is played the easiest when your shifts are coming quickly you're jumping over sometimes you're not thinking you're just letting your skill sets take care of it and you're you know you're just you're just doing what you feel is the right things to do. You're instinctively playing. When you're sitting around a lot, you think a lot more.

And you ponder negatively and positively. So when you get on the ice, these guys are getting out there and they're playing shifts and they're killing penalties. Like last night I watched a couple of penalty-killing units. I was like, wow, they're throwing them out there. They're letting them play. You know, the Chiefs are going to let them play. I love it.

And you see what they're made of and you see what they're all about and it's still early in the season and it's still an opportunity where uh they may look at the schedule as being maybe a bit a little bit on the softer side um you know if you've had a terrible start there's no such thing as a softer side but if you've had a decent start then yeah you've got a little bit of a softer side to give a little bit more room for some guys to get healthy and give some other guys a look. And I thought the young guys for the Leafs looked really good last night. Grebenkin, I really enjoyed watching him. He's a little pistol, and he gets involved,

and he plays bigger than his size. And nice to see Minton get his first. And Wall played fantastic last night. When they really needed him in the second, maybe the second, and then towards the end of the first, when Vegas was kind of trying to turn it on uh he didn't give them anything and then eventually the leagues were able to solidify it gals do you remember your first game watching uh you know craig bruby talked about getting 26 pims and his grabenkin went out there and had a great

time do you remember what it was like i do remember we played edmonton it was scary it was like that's a fast team to start against all the things well yeah we played them eight times a year so like you're minus 20 before you even start right so you gotta you gotta take it on the chin you know you're gonna be at least that so the crazy part of it is for me was all these players that i was a fan of before i got to the National Hockey League that I was, like, enamored with, all of a sudden they were all on the ice all at one time when you're playing against Wayne Gretzky and Messi and all. And you get kind of caught up in it.

But it went by. I just remember the game going by really fast. And it was a tighter game. I don't recall the score perfectly, but I think it was 3-2 or four, three or something like that. And I got an assist in the first period. So I got my first point right away. So it kind of loosened me up a little bit,

but, uh, but yeah, you know, it was, it was very, very memorable and I didn't wait long to get my first goal either. I think it was my third or fourth game against Vancouver,

uh, on Richard Berger, uh, long CNI slapper that, uh, went through. So it was nice to get those things out of the way quickly so you're not really worrying about them but uh you know it was it was fabulous i mean uh being an la king and starting out on that west coast and and being

in that smite division was was really exciting there were some really good teams and and obviously you know we didn't make the playoffs uh in the years i was there like the first year we made the playoffs it was the best uh five against edmonton and it was three and gone golfing we're running out of time but uh maybe just a quick thought on a former team of yours the boston bruins i know they made the coaching change but is it just the reality that this team is in a a scenario where it's caught up to them that they after 20 games we've got them as a mid-team and no longer a team that can can win a division yeah it's funny how a team like just looks like they aged really fast uh right in the middle of the summer or something you know it, the switch flipped over where some players who were really,

really good last year, you know, are just playing okay. Now they're not really up there. The coach certainly was seeing his team playing under standard. He, I think he tried to, you know, push hard to get them to come back around. He was, he made everybody accountable. That's the one thing I'll give Jim Montgomery. He made everyone accountable, the same, just like Craig Berube's doing in Toronto.

He made everyone accountable, and I like that. And it sounded like the players didn't have a problem with it. So, you know, it's hard to believe when people say, well, they stopped playing for him, or there's something, there's a problem between the coach and the players. Well, there's always going to be those during tough times because tough times is when a coach has to really bear down on you. I think that the plan looks like to try to salvage a season

and still get into the playoffs, which they feel like is a good enough team, and maybe this is their chance to do it by changing the coach and see if they can't kickstart him. But it's tough to see a guy with that kind of record go down in the history of that in Boston, for sure. But they've always seemed to come out smelling like a rose. So we'll see what happens. Hey, gals, thanks for doing this, man.

Really appreciate it. My pleasure. Say hi to your buddies for us there. They look comfy. Yeah, they're sleeping. That's what they do a lot of. I love gals, but I totally disagree with him in terms of Jim Montgomery. Oh, yeah.

Like the players being comfortable with. I told you when he benched Pasternak, he was done. You can't do that. Yeah. You can't miss. There's no way there's no world where i live in that i know they're saying all the right things and they're very sweet publicly but you cannot shut down your guys like that and expect to come through not at that point of things you know i

think you can do it when things are going well or, you know, early in your time or something. You know, he had the prior calling out Pasternak in that playoff series where it worked. We need more from him. That was something, too. I forgot. We need more from him. Scores the OT winner.

It's like you keep pushing, you keep pressing. It's like eventually, no. Hey, you put up that jersey. Jen, can we get a shot of this jersey that we put up here? Someone send us a real Oilers jersey. Look at this jersey. This is the most absurd thing I've ever seen. Who put it in the dryer?

We're Sportsnet. We don't have one. We are in national television. And we're putting up Ryan Favreau's baby's jersey. I did put it up. I did put it up. Yeah. Quickly, Washington Capitals, did they come out with some news?

Because we... From the Capitals Public Relations Twitter account. Yeah. Washington Capitals captain Alexander Ovechkin underwent further evaluation with team doctors. It was confirmed that Ovechkin has a fracture to his left fibula and is anticipated to miss four to six weeks. Doctor. Doctor. Doctor. Doctor. Kipper, doctor. Doctor got it right. Good job, bud. fibula and is anticipated to miss four to six weeks doctor doctor doctor doctor kipper doctor

doctor got it right good job bud um so gals is like yeah breaking in with la and i was like did you play with my dad and he did they were in the how's that never come up uh 80 when's your dad retire 87 my dad retired 88 he played two years with la looking at this la team robitae nichols jimmy carson marcel dion dave taylor jim fox steve duchesne that's a good tiger williams bob bourne gary galley at least play fair that's a that's a good team here's a spring chicken as you reminded me right oh yeah that's a good team there in L.A. Yeah, it is. I'm exhausted. It's been a time.

God, I am really tired. Full week. Full week. I'm going to a concert tonight, boys. Oh, you're going to Taylor Swift? Not going to Taylor. You got a Swift ticket? No, I'm not going to Taylor Swift.

I'm going to see Sturgill Simpson at Massey Hall. Oh, cool. Yeah, it'll be really, really good. We want a full review tomorrow. No. It's going to be some crooning country with a bunch of white guys. Did you book our buddy Doug McClain? I haven't talked to him yet. It's going to be some crooning country with a bunch of white guys. Did you book our buddy Doug McClain? I haven't talked to him yet.

Are we going to find him? I'll see. Off the rails Friday. We'll see what he says. All right. All right. Just like that. We're done.

Our thanks to Gary Galley and Dr. Dana Sinclair. Very cool. Very cool. Enjoy that lot. Enjoy your night, everybody. We're back tomorrow for Off the Rails Friday. If you get a chance, give us a rating and review. We'd love to hear from you. Have a great night, everybody.